Snapped: Women Who Murder - Lisa Dolph Hostetter

Episode Date: March 17, 2024

When a young woman is found mysteriously gunned down off a remote highway, Michigan detectives look into the victim's past for answers, uncovering a scandalous web of infidelity and betrayal.Season 30 Episode 11Originally aired: December 12, 2021Watch full episodes of Snapped for FREE on the Oxygen app: https://oxygentv.app.link/WatchSnappedPodSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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A bizarre incident on a remote highway shocks investigators. We opened up the door to the car and we noticed that she was blue. She had massive trauma from a shotgun blast. At the moment, you're thinking, okay, this is obviously a homicide. As investigators piece together the victim's past, a sordid web of unrequited love and jealousy unravels. She was completely obsessed.

She certainly manipulated all these people. I don't know what power she held over these people. I've already been accused of everything. We're not capable to care for something I didn't do. But simmering under the surface is an even darker tale of lust, lies, and betrayal turned deadly. This is quite literally insane. Everyone's sleeping with each other.

She actually caught them in the act together and she flipped out. She was livid and then soon after that started getting threatening phone calls. The perfect storm, the perfect storm of evil. perfect storm of evil. February 19th 1996. It's a cold quiet evening in Motville, Michigan, until just after 8.30 p.m., when an alarming call for help

reaches Michigan state police officers. 911. Someone just ran into our house. Someone ran in a car or ran in on foot? No, in a car. They just ran into our house. Has anybody entered? Um, yes. How many people are in the car? How many people are injured? One. Are they conscious sick or how? Has anybody injured? Um, yes. How many people are in the car? How many people are injured?

One. Are they conscious and alert? Are they conscious and alert? Uh-huh. We were the closest, most available car, so we started heading that way. When we got there, it's just bumped up against the front porch. There was no damage to the car, you know, as far as a collision part.

Though the vehicle appears unscathed, a closer look reveals the driver wasn't as lucky. We opened up the door to the car, and she was still in the driver's seat. But we noticed that she was blue. I'm trying to figure out why she's blue. We could see right away that this crash didn't involve the type of impact that would cause somebody

to die from the injuries involved in the actual impact with the house. You're starting to think of, OK, is this medical related, drug related? The ambulance was right behind us as we pulled in there. So the ambulance attendants got her out and took her to the back of the ambulance and tried to do CPR on her.

There was no response. So as the paramedics are working on her, she is completely unresponsive. She's not moving. We found her purse in the vehicle, and we could identify her as Carol Knapp of Mottville. Her house was not very far away. It's probably two or three miles, if that much.

They were trying to figure out what they had here. We had to really break down the incident as far as what had caused her to come off the roadway. We needed to figure out what happened. Born in 1967, Carol Summey grew up in rural southern Michigan. Her stepfather and mom owned a big Christmas tree farm, so she helped out there, rode three wheelers and she was just an all-American girl. She was a very friendly girl.

She was a lot like me in that we kind of shot from the hip when we spoke about anything. Following high school, 18-year-old Carol began working at a factory. Outside of work, she turned heads with her stunning beauty. Pretty, tall and thin and well-built, dark brown eyes. Very pretty girl. She was a big pet lover.

She was a country girl. Carol dated around. She had several boyfriends, but never really was serious with anybody. That is until she met Gary Nett. They both worked at the same factory, and they met, and it's kind of history from there. Gary was a long-haul truck driver, as many people are from this area,

and he was a rugged guy, outdoorsy. They kind of shared similar interests there. Her family was a rugged guy, outdoorsy. They kind of shared similar interests there. Her family was happy to see Carol finally settling down with the man, but they did have their reservations. We were concerned because Gary was married to a woman named Lori.

Lori and Gary were married, and then Carol had an affair with him. And anyway, that whole situation broke up. Lori and Gary were married and then Carol had an affair with him and anyway that whole situation broke up. With Carol now in his life, in November of 1994, Gary put divorce proceedings on the fast track to end his four-year marriage to Lori. It only took a few months for Lori and Gary to have their divorce finalized and you know that quickly escalated Carol and Gary's relationship.

They got married on Valentine's Day in 1995. He was very, very sweet to her, very caring. Gary would cook for her and they had a lot of pets and they had a good time doing that and they would go places and do things. When Gary wasn't on the road, he and Carol hung out with friends from the trucking community. One of Gary's best friends was Ron Hostetter and they both knew each other because they were both long-haul truck drivers. And, you know, they started to bring their wives around,

Gary bringing Carol and Ron bringing his wife, Lisa, around. While Ron and Gary had already been friends for years, their wives sparked a friendship of their own. Gary and Lisa and Carol and all of them and going to parties and I think that it just all become easy and they live fairly close together. Lisa's family owned a septic pumping company and I think they installed dry wells and septic tanks and maybe did some excavation work. She had two sisters. I think they were kind of hardscrabble Northern Indiana people.

It was a friendship that really took off. They clicked almost immediately. They shared similar interests. Both of their husbands were truck drivers. They were able to really talk about anything. By the time she and Carol became friends, Lisa and Ron were well past the newlywed stage. Lisa was a stay-at-home mom to her two kids with Ron,

and they even took in foster kids here and there. And so she was a very typical, loving, stay-at-home mom. As a respite from the road and raising their kids, Ron and Lisa often blew off steam with Gary and Carol. On the weekends, they'd go to dinner parties, go to each other's houses. The four of them hang out together. They barbecue, they drink, they do everything together.

Suddenly, on February 19, 1996, the good times come to a screeching halt off a rural stretch of Michigan Highway, where Carol is found unresponsive in her car. She maneuvered into the driveway. There was a fence in front of it, so we knew she had turned towards the house and then just didn't stop before she struck the porch. They were administering CPR and were getting no response. But while EMTs work to save Carol's life, the mystery of her accident only deepens.

The ambulance guys started figuring out the air wasn't helping her. Then they took some of her clothes off and figured out that there was a shotgun blast to her chest. We continued with CPR in efforts to revive her. We packed it with gauze and tried to hold the blood in, but there was just too much damage at that point to be able to save her. They pronounced her dead then. That changed the whole dynamic of the incident.

This is obviously a homicide. Who could be involved? Why did she get shot and killed? Coming up, investigators piece together Carol's final moments. It looked like someone was driving alongside her on that highway when they shot her. This looks like it could be a targeted killing. And a tale of bad blood and romantic rivals is revealed. Right away we started thinking about we need to find the husband.

In rural St. Joseph County, Michigan, a quiet home has just turned into the scene of a homicide investigation. It looked like a car crash at first, but then when police got there, they realized that a woman was shot to death inside that car. The Michigan driver's license identified her as Carol Knapp. She had massive trauma from a shotgun blast to her back, upper shoulder, which would have been fatal within moments.

We don't have that kind of crime in that area, and, you know, everybody was kind of stunned that it happened. Police started really looking throughout this entire crime scene to sort of figure out what happened. During a canvas of the scene, we were able to locate a glass debris field from where we could tell a window had been broken in a glass pattern in the roadway. So we protected that so that we could get some more evidence from the actual road where we then believed the actual shooting had happened. The debris field in the roadway was found probably about a quarter mile or less from where she actually turned into the driveway and then crashed into the house. It does seem like Carol was trying to get help

by continuing to drive to this person's house after she was shot. Investigators doubt Carol's death was shot. Investigators doubt Carole's death was random. It looked like someone was driving alongside her on that highway when they shot her. Who are the players involved? We need to figure out who else was with her, or if anyone else was with her.

The area is basically a farming community lined with farm fields and farm housing. Not very many people live there. This highway goes through a pretty rural area of town. This looks like it could be a targeted killing. Investigators hope to locate an eyewitness to piece together Carrol's final moments. The people who called were concerned

they were obviously jostled awake by the car hitting the front porch. But as far as anger or scare or anything like that, it was just a normal caller. You don't know who might be a suspect. So you want to get everybody that's there and get a name and what you were doing before this happened and so on. Michigan State Police investigators

are looking at the neighbors in the area where Carol crashed. They figured out that no one really knew Carol and it didn't make sense that any of those neighbors would target her or wanna hurt her. With no additional leads from the crime scene or its surroundings, investigators have their next destination in mind. The registration for the vehicle provided us her home address.

Right away we started thinking about, we need to find the husband. We knocked on the door and no answer at the door. It was completely dark. It doesn't look like anybody's even home. And as they're leaving, a man sort of comes around the house and it's Gary Nett. He seemed kind of nervous. It was odd that he just showed up out of the blue. Gary was asking in some form, what happened to my wife? Before they had a chance to say anything to him.

His whole affect was off. The officers were considering him to be a suspect. They're kind of asking, why does he think something is wrong with Carol? And Gary explains himself. Carol worked at night, and she had just started this shift where she was going to be in the plant, I think, by herself, starting from about 9 o'clock at night.

And she said, well, call me when I get to work to make sure I got there all right, although I don't think it was very far. So he was unable to reach her, and he wanted to know what was going on. Gary says his concern led to an investigation of his own. Gary explained to investigators he figured out that something might be wrong with Carol,

and she might be in danger. He started looking around the surrounding area. He knows which way Carol takes to work, so he's kind of looking for any clues as to what might have happened to her. Gary explains he called their friend Lisa Hostetter for backup. Gary and Carol only had one working car.

Lisa drove up there to bring a vehicle to Gary that he could then use. With Gary's initial statement easing investigators' suspicions, they finally reveal Carrol's fate. When police do tell Gary that his wife has been shot and killed, it was sad. It was something that really shook him. He was sad. It was something that really shook him. As Gary reels from the news, a car pulls up to his house.

Lisa shows up at Gary and Carol's home, and at that time, investigators are still at the house talking to Gary. And when she finds out what happens to Carol, her first reaction is to comfort Gary and kind of be someone for him to lean on. She was inquisitive. She wanted to know what happened and what was going on.

And at that point, they didn't know a lot. While investigators allow Gary some time to process the news, they pull Lisa aside for a quick interview. She tells the cops that, you know, Carol adored Gary. They had a loving relationship. However, Lisa explains the origin of Gary and Carol's relationship was shrouded in scandal. Gary and Carol had a pretty steamy affair going on

until his wife, Lori, actually caught them in the act together. And she, when she did that, she flipped out. Police are quickly learning that this is a love triangle. According to Lisa, it's possible the bad blood between Lori and Carol has now led to bloodshed. There was implications that Lori was still angry that Carol had stolen her husband. Coming up, a new red flag flies high.

Lori's a truck driver, and they figured out that one of Lori's routes that she drives on is the exact road where Carol was shot. And layers of infidelity muddled the case. Everybody was with everybody. It was just such an ongoing mess. Carol found in Gary's truck a love letter. Carol found in Gary's truck a love letter. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people, with a touch of humor, I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity that is pretty great, a dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of

cursing, this mother f***er lied like a liar, like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Welcome to Pura, the most pristine, safe, climate stable city on Earth. A haven amidst the wreckage. Here, you're safe from heat domes, super storms, water bandits in the Outerlands. heat domes, super storms, water bandits in the outer lands. Run! There's no crime in Pura. No murder, no suicide.

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You can binge all episodes of The Last City right now at free on Wondery+. Get started with your free trial at Wondery.com slash plus. Hours after 28-year-old Carol Nepp is gunned down along a Michigan highway, investigators have eyes on two potential suspects. Her husband, Gary Nepp, and his ex-wife, Lori. Lori had caught Carol and Gary having an affair a year prior to Carol's murder. So it's stand to reason that there was some major resentment on Lori's behalf so that she might wanted to do something to Carol in retribution.

The police asked Gary about her past. Investigators asked Gary to come to the station for a more formal interview. and he was devastated. You made the statement, what happened to my wife? What do you think I did? Why did you make that statement? They asked me what happened this evening, all this evening. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I did? Why did you make that statement? They asked me what happened this evening, all this evening. I didn't know what was going on. I heard ambulances going through,

but didn't think anything about it. Why were you going to check up on your wife? Because she wasn't at work. He tells them that he was home at the time of the murder. He was making calls to Carol's work and calls to Lisa to try and find her. According to Gary, the couple had been on edge ever since they'd been receiving some threatening messages

on their answering machine. Carol was getting threatening phone calls, and she was pretty worried about that. So they were trying to figure out where they were coming from. It's a man, an unidentified man, who's calling the residents and threatening Carol. Gary says one phone call said something like, hey,

you need to leave her alone, or we're going to party, or something to that effect. Gary tells them that this is something that's been happening for months. She was scared, so she changed her phone number, and she changed her hours so they didn't know when she was going to work and coming home. When the messages kept coming, Gary and Carol

had an idea who might be behind them. He believes that Lori might be behind those threatening voicemails because he thinks that Lori never got over him. As for Gary, initial doubts of his innocence have begun to dissolve. Yesterday, did you shoot Carol? I did not shoot her. That's God's honest truth.

Okay. Yesterday, do you know for sure who shot Carol? No. Okay. He does stick by his story, and I think that's one of the things Yesterday, do you know for sure who shot Carol? No. OK. He does stick by his story. And I think that's one of the things that ultimately led investigators to rule out him as a suspect.

He stuck to his story. He was only worried about his wife. They were happily married. And he made multiple calls that night looking for her and trying to find her. We did a lot of telephone tracing to figure out what calls Gary made from who to who and what exact time. So there were some phone calls that had gone back and forth that were documented and confirmed

as alibi. With Gary seemingly in the clear, investigators ask him for more details about his ex-wife, Lori. They discover Lori is also a truck driver, and they figured out that one of Lori's route that she drives on is the exact road where Carol was shot. But before they track down Lori, investigators pay a 2 AM visit to Carol's mom to deliver the tragic news.

For Carol's mother, this is not something that's taken easily. She's heartbroken by this. I mean, this is a daughter that she was close with. Totally shocked, because Carol, she's very outgoing person and everything, but she was close with. Totally shocked, because Carol, she's very outgoing person and everything, but she was never in trouble. She was never around people that were bad people. This is little tiny Motville, Michigan.

This doesn't happen here. And why her? Despite her grief, Carol's mom makes a shocking accusation. She said, Carol found in Gary's truck a love letter written to him. Carol found a card that was a love card from Lisa to Gary. That is the linchpin that Carol got a clue that Gary must be having some sort of an affair with Lisa.

Carol's mom says her daughter felt betrayed by someone she considered a friend. I can see her threatening Lisa, telling her stay away from Gary. But that's certainly something that Carol would have never followed through with. That was definitely not in her nature. She, of course, was, she was livid, like all of us would be. And then soon after that, that's when Carol started

getting threatening phone calls. This complicates things for investigators. They thought Lori might be the one, but now they're focusing their attention on Lisa, who also could very well be involved in Carole's murder. Investigators are shocked to learn the woman they'd just spoken with hours earlier may have been involved in Carole's death.

These people connected to Lisa really make them take a look at her as the murder suspect. While officers work to bring Lisa in for a polygraph examination, investigators sit down with Gary's ex-wife, Lori. The police asked her where she was on the night that Carol was murdered. And she tells them that she was with her boyfriend all night. Did you shoot Carol Napp?

No. Did you plan with anyone to have Carol shot? No. Not even Mom, not even her dad. OK. At first, it seems Lori is telling the truth, but deception is detected elsewhere. They asked Lori if she was having an affair, and at that time, her boyfriend, Larry, Lori is telling the truth, but deception is detected elsewhere.

They asked Lori if she was having an affair, and at that time, her voice wavered, and they knew she was lying. She said, no, I wasn't having an affair. The police questioned her about it and, you know, asked her if she is having an affair with Gary, and she sort of, you know, laughs at them and basically says, well, no, I'm having an affair with Ron, Lisa's husband. I don't even know how to get my head around that.

Everybody was unfaithful with everybody else. Ron and Lori Watt, that relationship ended after a very short time. After confirming Lori's alibi with her boyfriend, I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go.

I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go.

I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. I'm not going to let you go. The first reveal leaves investigators' heads spinning. Everybody was with everybody. It was just such an ongoing mess and divorces, and you didn't know who was with who week to week. Detectives next revisit another tale of infidelity, the alleged affair between Gary Nepp and Lisa Hostetter. But they hit a wall. Lisa and Gary each got attorneys

and declined to speak to us any further. While the move heightens suspicion around them, it also has investigators questioning what Lisa's husband Ron Hostetter may know. On February 21st, five days after Carol's husband, Ron Hostetter, may know. On February 21st, five days after Carole's murder, authorities interview Ron at his home. Ron's statement doesn't really give the police anything that they can work with.

Despite their suspicion of Ron and Lisa, investigators are far from proving anything. They're trying to piece together, you know, this entire love triangle at this point. And, you know, the case turned days, turned into weeks, turned into months, and they really have nothing at this point. Eight months after Carroll's murder,

on November 1, 1996, Michigan State police detectives get a call from the sheriff in Elkhart, Indiana. The investigator says they have a man in custody named Dale Smith, who charged with some sort of an assault of offense in Indiana. And Indiana investigator was talking to him about that. And all Dale wanted to talk about was the Carol Knapp murder. Coming up, a shocking confession turns the investigation on its head. And an unexpected witness comes forward. He just blurted out, I did it. I'm going to tell everybody what happened. In November of 1996, eight months since the murder of Carol Nepp, Michigan State Police

Detectives traveled to Indiana to interview Dale Smith, brother-in-law of murder suspect Lisa Hostetter, hoping to connect Ron and Lisa to Carol's murder. He said he was there, they talked about it, they planned it, but he was absent from the shooting. He said Ron drove 105 miles an hour down the toll road, brought him the guns, and told him to get rid of them. Though Dale's statement reinforces investigators' belief that Lisa Hostetter was behind Carol's killing,

a destroyed murder weapon makes it difficult to prove. It was a very excruciating, unpleasant time in our lives. I personally was very worried that this was never going to be resolved. Finally, on April 3, 1998, two years after Carol's murder, Lisa shocks detectives when she contacts them. About a year after Carol was murdered, Lisa divorces Ron, and then she ends up moving in with Gary.

This kind of raises some red flags because it doesn't look good for her at this point. But now it seems Lisa has no reason to cover for her ex any further and decides to tell all. The pressure is down. It's not my fault. However, Lisa isn't able to offer any proof other than her word.

She was very manipulative. I felt Lisa controlled Ron, but knowing it and proving it are two different things. It's interesting. Everyone blamed everyone else. But each person that then told us what happened gave more of the pieces of the puzzle. Much like Dale's statement, Lisa's allegations

don't add up to much without proof, until a woman named Carrie Dempsky calls the station. After Lisa and Ron are divorced, Ron sort of moves on with his life and meets a woman named Carrie. Carrie, though, goes to police at one point because they had had a pipe bomb go off outside of their house. Carrie tells police she thinks she knows why. Carrie told the police that she suspected

that that bomb was to keep Ron quiet about something that he knew about Carol Knapp's murder. Carrie tells police that they've been receiving threatening phone calls from Lisa. And it did seem like Lisa was worried that Ron might say something about Carol's murder. Carrie reveals that she and Ron are actually

outside the station in the parking lot. But when detectives invite the shell-shocked couple inside, they find Ron less than forthcoming. than forthcoming. Ron had some sort of not very tight alibi. His story is that he was home at the time of Carol's murder. They're sitting there wondering, well, what is this guy here for?

They think that he's holding back. It didn't make sense to investigators. Ron leaves investigators with more questions than answers, but they refuse to let the case go cold, and two months later, their efforts finally pay off. We invoked the potential of a federal grand jury. We never actually did it, but the fact that the feds were involved was intimidating to people. And I think people's conscience just got the better of them. This was a big wake-up call for Ron.

I think he decided that it was time to come clean. He hired some attorneys, and they approached us and said, we would like to maybe give some information. There was a meeting set up at the FBI office in Kalamazoo, and Ron was there with his lawyers. And finally, he just blurted out, I did it. I'm going to tell everybody what happened. And then Ron pretty much laid it all out. Now willing to cooperate, Ron explains that in February of 1996,

he and Lisa were back on good terms after her affair with Carol's husband, Gary. But she confided in him and her brother-in-law, Dale Smith, that Carol had been threatening her. That lit Lisa's fire. So she decided, well, I'm going to threaten you. So she decided to get a hold of someone that was big and burly and who sounds intimidating, and I'm going

to throw it right back at you. So there were phone calls made to her residents, which some of which I understand she actually had conversations with, and some were actually recorded on her machine. According to Ron, Lisa claimed the phone messages didn't work, and Carol was taking her threats a step too far. Lisa perceived something, that Carol was somehow threatening her children.

That's how I think Lisa got Ron saying she may harm our children. Fearful for the lives of his kids, Ron says he agreed Carol needed to go and decided to help Lisa's brother-in-law, Dale, carry out her plan. Dale wanted to be a part of Lisa's family. He kind of felt like an outsider,

and this was his way in. Ron says Lisa stalked Carol to figure out her commute to work and back. This is a highway that Carol takes to work every day. And once Carol was driving by, that's when they were supposed to take her out. On February 19, 1996, Ron says the trio put the plan into motion.

Ron was driving, and Dale was in the passenger seat. And they knew when she was going to be leaving and what route she was going to be taking. Lisa was waiting outside of Carol's house and radioed to Ron and Dale that she was leaving and she was going to be driving by. According to Ron, Ron was driving. And they saw the car.

They pulled out. Ron pulled up beside her, and Dale pulled the trigger. According to Ron, Dale thought the shot was a miss. He said, I missed. Let's get out of here. And they took off. I don't think they could actually believe they actually did it. But the deed was done shortly after that.

Carol died. Ron tells police that he was the getaway driver, but the actual shooter, the person who shot Carol to death, was Lisa's brother-in-law, Dale Smith. Lisa manipulated all these people. When you step back and think, I got my husband and my brother-in-law to murder my boyfriend's wife, that's a difficult concept. I don't know what power she held over these people.

As for Gary, Ron says he knew nothing of the plan to kill his wife. Police never found anything that indicated that Gary was a part of Carol's murder. Ron says Lisa even had a plan for how they would get away with it. Ron explains to investigators that Lisa really wanted to frame Lori for Carol's murder. Police believe that Ron is telling the truth.

He legitimately fears for his life because of Lisa's actions, and they do think he is telling the truth. fears for his life because of Lisa's actions. And they do think he is telling the truth. As detectives prepare to make the long-awaited arrests, prosecutors hit a snag. Prior to 2000, in Michigan, the spousal privilege was with the defendant. You could claim the spousal privilege.

If you were married at the time of a commission crime, you couldn't testify against one another. They were married during that commission, so that communication is privileged information. Coming up, Lisa won't go down without a fight. She turned to the family and she said that she was innocent, that she didn't do this. Well, they all pointed the finger

in a circular roundabout. Four years after being gunned down on the highway in 1996, Carol Nepp's murder case remains open. Despite a confession from getaway driver Ron Hostetter, a Michigan law stands in the way of justice. There came to a point when Ron Hostetter wanted to talk about it, and there had to be a change in the Michigan law for spousal privilege. It was just completely overwhelming.

And especially because they couldn't arrest, it was just devastating. While prosecutors work to change the law, they get multiple anonymous phone calls regarding the case, although they think they know exactly who is behind them. I believe Lisa continued to write me anonymous letters and even called me a time or two anonymously because she just wanted to know what was going on and keep her fingers in it. Eventually, the legal process pays off.

Prior to 2000, in Michigan, the spousal privilege was with the defendant. If you were charged with a crime and your wife was called as a witness, you could claim the spousal privilege and prohibit your wife from testifying against you. The law changed and the privilege then became with the witness. So now she could claim the privilege and decline to testify without punishment for contempt.

She could also choose to testify. Prosecutors fight for the change to apply retroactively to Carroll's case. I appealed that ultimately all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court. And that took more than a year. And then the Supreme Court remanded it back to the Court of Appeals. And the Court of Appeals then ruled that Ron could testify.

On August 28, 2000, Michigan State Police finally arrest Lisa Hostetter, her ex-husband Ron, and her brother-in-law, Dale Smith, for Carol's murder. It wasn't until late August of 2000 was there any arrests made. And once it finally came, I'm telling you, it was total elation. That evening, I saw it on the news, and when I saw Lisa's picture flash up on the screen,

it was one of the more happy moments of my life. I felt elated. I mean, just relief. I felt elated. I mean, just relief. I felt elated. I mean, just relief. Following her arrest, Lisa refuses to make a statement and stands by her innocence. She was defiant, unaccepting of responsibility.

I didn't do it. It's not my fault. So we needed Ron's testimony to charge Lisa to proceed further. A plea agreement was worked out with Ron, and he pled, I believe, to second degree murder. to charge Lisa to proceed further. A plea agreement was worked out with Ron, and he pled, I believe, to second-degree murder. And he agreed to testify against Lisa. 39-year-old Ron also agrees to testify

against 42-year-old Dale Smith, the man he says fired the shot that killed Carol Knapp. Dale was convicted of conspiracy to commit first degree murder and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony. So that was very satisfying. In November 2002, Ron takes the stand against his ex-wife at her trial.

Ron's testimony ultimately amounted to him saying She had an effect on other people that were willing to follow her lead. I think she wanted Gary. I believe that's what motivated her to do that. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person.

She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She was a very good person. She had an effect on other people that were willing to follow her lead. I think she wanted Gary. I believe that's what motivated Lisa to put this whole thing into motion.

Lisa's attorneys continue to claim that Ron and Dale acted alone. Dale Smith blamed Lisa and Ron. Ron blamed Dale and Ron. Ron blamed Dale and Lisa, and Lisa blamed Dale and Ron. So they all pointed the finger in a circular roundabout. Lisa talked about the planning that had gone into it and left herself out of the picture. Though the court doesn't buy Lisa's claims of innocence, they do cut her some slack.

She was not convicted of first degree murder or conspiracy to commit first degree murder. She was convicted of second degree murder, which carries an indeterminate sentence. She was given a sentence of 25 to 50 years. convicted of second degree murder, which carries an indeterminate sentence. She was given a sentence of 25 to 50 years. During Lisa's sentencing, she turned to the family and she said that she was innocent, that she didn't do this, and that God says that she must forgive us, for we don't know

what we have done. That left a profound emotion in me. She did do it, and we do not forgive her, and we never will. She's a perfect storm. Lisa Hostetter is a perfect storm of evil. That's the only way that you can describe her. She was just completely obsessed with Gary. She was going to have Gary at all costs.

A good life taken for absolutely no reason, no reason other than someone wanted your husband and they'll do anything to get it. Gary Nepp was never charged in his wife's murder. In 2000 he was convicted of attempted murder in an unrelated case. Dale Smith is still serving a life sentence. Ron Hostetter was released from prison in 2014. Lisa Hostetter will be eligible for parole in November 2024. Hey, it's Guy Raz here, the host of How I Built This,

a podcast that gives you a front row seat to how some of the biggest products were built and the innovators, entrepreneurs, and idealists behind them. Every week I speak to someone new. Stories like Justin Wolverton's, a lawyer who just wanted a healthy alternative to ice cream, so he created Halo Top in his Cuisinart. Or Todd Graves, who grew his fried chicken restaurant Raising Canes into one of the most

successful fast food chains in the US. All of these great conversations can help you learn how to think big, take risks, and navigate crises in life and work from people who've done all of that and more. Follow How I Built This on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to How I Built This early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus.