Snapped: Women Who Murder - Theresa Cox

Episode Date: March 22, 2026

When a couple is found shot to death on their front porch, the victims' past reveals suspects.Season 33 Episode 18Originally aired: May 19, 2024Watch full episodes of Snapped for FREE on the ...Oxygen app: https://oxygentv.app.link/WatchSnappedPodSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:01 A young suburban couple gunned down on their front porch. People heard things they described as fireworks in the middle of the night. Like it was some kind of a gunfight. At the crime scene, there's another shocking discovery. I was very tense. We didn't know if there was more victims. Evidence suggests they knew an attack might be coming. There was a loaded shot.
Starting point is 00:00:34 shotgun behind the door. That told me they thought that they needed some kind of protection. Uncovering the truth behind the brutal slayings reveals a killer hell bent on revenge. I don't think she liked the fact that he was happy without her. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. When police are ready to move on their suspects, they completely vanish. They then cut and dyed their hair. They were trying to disappear.
Starting point is 00:01:10 No one knew where they were at. Nobody knew what they might do next. So we were on High Award. Willard, Missouri is a quiet residential area 12 miles outside Springfield. But at 9 a.m. on November 14, 2020, this normally peaceful town is shaken by a horrifying discovery.
Starting point is 00:01:48 911 dispatch received a call from a neighbor. She said that she looked through her window while she was serving breakfast to her family. And she seen her neighbors laying down on the ground on the front porch. She went to go check. And she found two bodies laying on the front porch, blood all over the ground. And there was a gun laying just outside of his hand. 9-1-1 operators immediately send first responders to the address. I wasn't sure if I was going to a murder, suicide, or what exactly it was.
Starting point is 00:02:30 When I first arrived at the crime scene, the reporting party, she was there. She pointed to the bodies that were on the steps. She said that she was afraid to go to them, but she believed that they had been there for quite a while. The male victim had several gunshot wounds to his head and also to his torso and arm. The female subject also had multiple gunshot wounds. little gunshot wounds to her back and also to her head. He had a holster on his right side and his right hand was down just by his gun. It made me think there was some kind of a gunfight.
Starting point is 00:03:09 The caller says the gunshot victims are 28-year-old Alex Schute and 30-year-old Brianna Sproul. She worries there might be another victim as well. She was very upset. She said they had a four-year-old daughter, but she wasn't. sure if the daughter was there or not. I was very tense when we went to search the house because I wasn't sure if we would find the daughter in the house.
Starting point is 00:03:39 We didn't know if the shooter was going to be in the house. We didn't know if there was more victims. More officers arrived from the Green County Sheriff's Office. We evacuated the building. Then we did a search of the apartment. The police go in, they're armed, and they have their firearms out. I noticed the house just looked like a normal person's house.
Starting point is 00:04:04 Nothing was missing. We just did an entire sweep through the apartment, and that's when we located a four-year-old child unharmed in the bathroom of the apartment. She acted like she was happy to see us. Just like nothing happened. The officers take her out the back of the house and shield her from the scene in the front. They whisked her way into a patrol car with a blanket, stuffed animal. She went into protective custody with the children's division.
Starting point is 00:04:47 With the child safe, police turned their attention to the victims. To find anybody dead in that manner in Willard is something that is almost unheard of. The big question is who did it? Alex Schute was born in St. Louis, Missouri on November 11, 1992. He was the youngest of four children, raised by Officer Darrell Schutt and his wife Lisa. I was on duty with the police department, so that was a foyer of activity to get to the hospital and bring Alex into this world. It was the biggest baby, and he was beautiful, perfect in every way. Only a year later, their happy home was a little bit.
Starting point is 00:05:37 their happy home was disrupted by divorce. Alex was about one when they split. My dad got remarried, and then my mom got remarried. But Alex's childhood remained a happy one. He was real big in anime and cartoons. He loved video games like all kids. He actually won a Super Smash Bros. Tournament when he was like 16. He really did fill the room with light and laughter.
Starting point is 00:06:09 I guess you could call him the class clown. Alex was entering his sophomore year of high school when his life was upended once again. We were living with my grandmother and my mother and all of us kids. My grandmother had developed pancreatic cancer and she was wanting to move back to New York. In 2008, we sold our house and we moved to upstate New York.
Starting point is 00:06:43 Alex found it difficult adjusting to a new school until he bonded with a new friend, Teresa Cox. Teresa actually moved from Wilmington, North Carolina. They bonded because they both moved from different states and came to the high school at the same time. Teresa had a troubled upbringing with her family and her grandparents raised her. She was big in video games and anime.
Starting point is 00:07:13 and stuff like him. They were pretty much together all the time every day. Alex was very smitten with her. She was fawning over Alex, so they seemed like a young couple in love. She made a very good first impression with us. If he liked her, we liked her, and I always trusted his judgment. Alex and Teresa became inseparable.
Starting point is 00:07:39 So when Alex's family moved back to Missouri after graduate, Teresa went with them as Alex's wife. They got married about six or seven weeks after high school on August 3rd of 2011. They got married in the courthouse. She had a beautiful dress. It was a really great day. We had a huge reception afterwards.
Starting point is 00:08:06 A few years into the marriage, Alex's desire to serve and protect led him to enlist. Alex had made the decision to join the Army and the National Guard and become a MP, military police. And so he attended basic training at Fort Leonard Wood. Alex had just finished basic training when he achieved another goal by becoming a father. They decided they wanted to have a baby right after he got out of boot camp. They welcomed their daughter in May of 2016.
Starting point is 00:08:51 The day that his daughter was born was the best day of his life. And for me to be able to witness that was beautiful. He was so proud. Shortly thereafter, Alex was to deploy to Poland for a short mission or training. And Teresa began to need help with our granddaughter. But it seemed that Teresa withdrew and the family ended up taking care of the baby. She worked as a gastis,
Starting point is 00:09:24 as a gas station attendant for a moment, and then she didn't work at all. I don't think Teresa understood what being a mother was. Unfortunately, after three years of parenting together, the marriage fell apart in 2019. Alex and Teresa became separated and divorced. Whatever the incident was, he never discussed it with us, but we assume it was
Starting point is 00:09:54 some infidelity that happened or something in that manner. When they got divorce, Alex, he let her keep the house. Alex remained devoted to his daughter, maintaining joint custody with Teresa. He took a new temporary job at a pizza place to make ends meet and got another chance at love with a co-worker named Brianna Sproul. He began dating Brianna, which we all called her Bree, and they seemed to click together well. They were animal lovers, advocate for rescues.
Starting point is 00:10:34 I know her parents got divorced when she was young. That was another thing that Alex and Brianna had in common. Alex moved in with her several months later. His daughter, as the custody agreement allowed, they would spend time with her. A big part of Alex loving Breonna so much was the way that she treated his daughter. She took care of her like she was her own, and she loved her and made her birthday cakes and costumes for Halloween. I think he was really excited about the future for the first time in a long time.
Starting point is 00:11:13 He proposed to her, and they started looking at homes. They were just building their future and kids were in the works. They were making their lives ready to start anew and be a fresh family. Sadly, before Alex and Brianna could realize their dreams, they were both found dead on their front porch. When we began to search the crime scene, nine shell casings were found on the front porch and on the front steps. One theory was that it was a murder-suicide because, there was one gun on scene and there were two deceased people on the porch.
Starting point is 00:12:00 But because his weapon was a 40-caliber weapon and the shell casings were a 9mm shell casing. It dispelled that theory pretty quickly. When we searched the gun, the magazine was full and the gun was completely loaded. We didn't think he had fired any rounds. By the position of the gun, he was more than likely holding the gun when he fell, and it just had fallen out of his hand, which indicated to me that he did not try to protect himself when he fell.
Starting point is 00:12:39 We're trying to make sense of what happened. All these things put red flags up to us. Coming up, investigators identify the time of death. Knowing the time of the crime was important to find out what their alibi was. And the victim's loved ones point to a surprising suspect. She didn't have a maternal bone in her. Detectives in Willard, Missouri are investigating the double murder of Alex Schute and Brianna Sprowl.
Starting point is 00:13:26 As they analyze the evidence on hand, detectives prioritize zeroing in on the time of the murders. One of the first things we start doing is trying to establish a timeline since they were obviously already deceased and been there for quite some time. At that point, I didn't have access to any family records or no, any people to call. However, Alex is wearing a security guard uniform for a nearby airport, giving investigators a starting point. When I spoke to Alex's supervisor, he said that he left an hour early. that Alex is supposed to get off at midnight and left at 11 p.m. Alex had received some type of contact or message from his girlfriend, Brianna, and he had notified another worker that he needed to go home and check on her.
Starting point is 00:14:24 I asked the supervisor about the gun that Alex had. He said Alex is not commissioned to have a firearm while on duty, and that a holster and firearm is not part of their approved unit. This indicated to me that Alex perceived a threat, remained in uniform, and eventually put on a holster and firearm. Investigators surmise the shooting took place between 1115 p.m. when Alex arrived home and 9.03 a.m. when the 911 call came in. They hope neighbors can help narrow down that window. There was officers that were going door to door and doing a neighbor neighborhood canvas to find out what other people might have seen or heard.
Starting point is 00:15:17 There was several people that heard things they described as fireworks in the middle of the night around midnight, one o'clock. This is Willard. There's not gunshots in Willard like that. A lot of people discounted what they heard and never called. Fortunately, one of the officers who lives nearby comes up with an idea. He lived 700 feet from the crime scene. He asked me if I wanted him to check his doorbell camera.
Starting point is 00:15:50 He said that it captures sound. He's activated by sound. And he checked it. And he was able to locate a video clip from 121 AM. We got the exact time that the murders happened. Knowing the time of the crime was important, because as we start talking to people, we want to find out what they're going to.
Starting point is 00:16:25 alibi was during the time of the crime. Hoping to find further clues, officers conduct a thorough search of the apartment. There was no sign of forced entry. The door was unlocked. Everything that was in the home appeared to be intact. The first thing that I noticed was one of those fanny bags that had two Glock magazines in it.
Starting point is 00:17:02 And it appeared that it was just sitting out on the table right by the door. Another thing that I noticed, there was a loaded shotgun behind the door. As a parent, I wouldn't leave a loaded shotgun behind a door where it was accessible to a child. So that told me that at least Alex and Brianna thought that they needed some kind of protection. Whatever danger Alex and Brianna were expecting, it seems they may have trusted the person at their door enough to leave the shotgun behind. There was blood splatter on the front door in front of Brianna's sprouts head, which indicated
Starting point is 00:17:51 to me that the door was most likely closed. So the scene looked like they had been lured outside. Like the victims had a personal connection with this person to Elisle, allow them to be so close to them. At the scene, I also collected some papers from children's division and some legal paperwork that was in reference to custody issues. There was an ongoing conflict between the victim Alex Schutt and his first wife, Teresa Cox. There was documents from Alex's attorney trying to establish full custody rights of the child. My suspicion immediately went to Teresa Cox.
Starting point is 00:18:39 That was why when Chief McLean went to advise her of Alex's death that he had a recording device on him if she said anything that could be incriminating. That afternoon, detectives arrive on the doorstep of Teresa's home 12 miles away in Springfield, Missouri. We knocked and she came to the door a few seconds later. Teresa was in her bed closed and it was 3.3.30 in the afternoon. So we're gonna stay. No, you're okay. Okay.
Starting point is 00:19:23 So the reason we're here is we've received, well, police received a report this morning with concerns at Santer's House. Okay. But they did find Alexander and Priyana disease. My daughter is okay. She didn't see anything happen. I had to bring her into foster care to make sure she was safe. Do you know anything about any of that? No, I... No, I was working out, right?
Starting point is 00:19:48 She seemed, for the most part, somewhat unaffected. When they asked Teresa where she was the night before, she says she was on her way home from her job at a pizza restaurant. What was your shift last night from that? night from wind to wind my ship last night was 6 p.m. so 1 a.m. I got home from 30-ish. Can you be good home since then I've been home? I got home right and went to bed and I didn't sleep. Okay. Now to ask what happened then. We've got questions and a growing list of questions and so just we did all we could say is that we're in the midst of a homicide investigation
Starting point is 00:20:45 due to the circumstances around her ex-husband's murder their daughter remains in foster care until a judge can review custody as teresa's interview is wrapping up willard p.D. investigates her work schedule i went and spoke with her supervisor matthew plum the manager there to verify that Teresa Cox was working at the time of the murders. They were able to provide me with time card slips, which it did show that Teresa was clocked in. Speaking to Matthew further, he said that Teresa did have bad blood towards Alex,
Starting point is 00:21:31 and Teresa had mentioned it before that she would like for him to be dead. Right then, it really focused our attention on her involvement. Hours into their investigation, Willard police have a possible murder suspect. Alex shoots ex-wife, Teresa Cox. My theory at the time was that this was potentially
Starting point is 00:22:08 having something to do with custody of their child in common. Alex's family might be able to answer questions about the former couple's relationship, but first, Detectives must break the terrible news to them about the murders. You see it in the movies where you fall to your knees and the whole world stops. And that's exactly what happened. And I just remember I was screaming to my sister and I could hear her tell my mom that Alex is gone.
Starting point is 00:22:46 And her scream from my mother is something that you don't ever want to hear ever again. Digging deeper into the custody battle, investigators ask about Teresa. The start of really when Teresa gave birth and she had issues, just taking care of the child. I think that Teresa didn't have a maternal bone in her. And she showed no compassion for my niece when she was first born. She just would leave her there to cry and she would show no love for her. her. Alex was working with Bree.
Starting point is 00:23:33 She was obviously a nice person. I think they just started developing a relationship, and that's kind of what sealed the deal. When Alex and Teresa got divorced, he let her keep the house. He let her keep their savings. He took on the debt. They say Alex was determined to keep things amicable. But according to the family, Teresa's behavior made that impossible. She was actually involved in a car accident one night and the hospital called my brother.
Starting point is 00:24:07 And the very first thing my brother said to the police officers is, where's my daughter? We'll come to find out, Alex told me, Teresa had been leaving their daughter at home alone over nights while she went to work. Anything could have happened. And you have just blatant disregard for a child's life that you chose to bring into this world. Absolutely crazy to me. Following the incident in 2017 and three years before his murder,
Starting point is 00:24:42 Alex decided to pursue full custody. My brother called CPS. Eventually they intervened and he got full custody of his daughter. Teresa was not allowed any contact with their daughter at all, and less approved by Alex. To investigators, it seems Teresa had plenty of motive, and they request a search warrant for her cell phone data. Pretty quickly, we obtained the search warrants and seized her cell phone.
Starting point is 00:25:23 The first cell tower search warrant we received was for Teresa Cox's phone number. Data showed that she was in Springfield the entire time and not in Willard. While the data corroborates Teresa's alibi, by placing her 12 months, miles away from Willard, investigators are still left with questions. Next, they request a search warrant for Teresa's text messages. We were able to get text message content for about three or four days prior to the murder. It showed a text message between Teresa and an unknown person. It looked to be someone that was intimate or someone that was in a relationship
Starting point is 00:26:09 since they were saying things like, I love you, we're calling you babe and stuff. like that. One of the messages sent by Teresa Cox said something to the effect of change of plans for Friday. The message sent in response was, I need some time to myself. I need to be able to air out my mind before tomorrow night. The bigness and some of the information of those text messages could imply that that other number could be involved.
Starting point is 00:26:42 Police track the messages to someone named Dunkin' Duncan Bogel. Duncan Bogel ended up being someone who was in a relationship with Theresa Cox at the time that the murders took place. Law enforcement spoke with some of the friends of Duncan Bogal to get more information. I first met Duncan when we were 12 and 13. He moved to our small town and Duncan first met Teresa back in like February of 2020. They were working together at Walmart. I think it was like two or three months later that he was moving in with her.
Starting point is 00:27:21 They didn't first start dating. What it was was Teresa needed help with bills. And so Duncan was like, well, I want to get out of my mom's house, so they came up with the agreement that they could be roommates. Duncan was only 20, making Teresa eight years older, but that didn't stop romance from blossoming. Duncan is a very quiet type kind of person. So it does kind of take him a minute to like really open up to people.
Starting point is 00:27:51 up to people. He was very excited. He was just like a teenager who is like, is in the middle of class with like a note from their crush. That's what he was. Investigators must ask, did Duncan love Teresa enough to commit murder for her? When we did a search warrant for Duncan Bogle's cell tower data, it showed that Duncan was actually in the area of the crime scene during the time the shots were heard. Duncan Bogle and Teresa Cox, They lived in Springfield, and Willard is several miles north of the Springfield area. And so having Duncan's phone peeing off a tower and Willard around the time of the murders is crucial evidence. Next, we served a search warrant for Teresa Coxus residents.
Starting point is 00:28:38 Coming up, a murder plot unfolds. All I can think of is she sold her soul of the devil. And co-conspirators begin to turn on one another. I was supposed to be the all of them. Cell phone data suggests Teresa Cox and Duncan Bogle were planning to murder her ex-husband. Five days into the investigation, police obtain a warrant to search the couple's home.
Starting point is 00:29:25 They were able to locate an empty gunbox that was for the 9mm gun and had the serial number on the outside of the box. There was also a risk. found in the master bedroom. And that receipt said it was purchased on October 11th by Teresa Cox, about a month before the murder. They located inside a nearby safe.
Starting point is 00:29:51 There was ammunition that was 9mm caliber ammunition. And on the head stamp, it was S&B 9mm. It was the exact same type of ammunition that was located at the crime scene with the shell casings. However, the gun itself is missing. Police records show Teresa reported it stolen about 10 days before Alex and Brianna were shot. The gun was reported stolen the same day. Teresa was served with paperwork from Alex's attorneys
Starting point is 00:30:29 requesting child support in the amount of $400. I believe it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Police also find an interesting. exchange on Teresa's phone regarding a man named Matthew. There was kind of an odd message where somebody was saying to Teresa that she thought that Matthew was leaving her because he wasn't being responsive to her messages. That person was later determined to be Ariel and she was the girlfriend of Matthew. Teresa had in some way told Ariel,
Starting point is 00:31:13 no, that's not the case. We had a very busy night. Police track the number and speak to a woman named Ariel. The Matthew she mentioned turns out to be Matthew Plum, the night manager who gave Teresa her alibi. There was a point last weekend when you were concerned that was good to leave you. Tell me about that.
Starting point is 00:31:44 He got off super late that Friday, about like 4.10 or 420. He didn't text me for like the entire next night. So I got on Live 360 that night and was looking at where he was, and he was headed up towards Teresa's house. Matthew Plum's actions were suspicious that night that he stayed late for work. was distant towards her, which led us to believe that he may have had a more important role
Starting point is 00:32:15 in this. Police bring Matthew into the station for a second interview, but he sticks by his story. You're saying that the Life 360 is going to show you going from Pizza Hut to home from... I didn't believe him. I just kept asking questions, and then I noticed that there were some loose ends or some lies. Did you call her from the store phone? Is that going to show up on her phone records
Starting point is 00:32:51 that you called her from the store phone? I hope said. Stop with the hope. Now it's not a time to protect your own. Now is the time to save your own ass. Okay? You can help us with this. He did eventually tell us that he conspired with Teresa. I was supposed to be the alibi.
Starting point is 00:33:15 Okay. Matthew says it was to protect Teresa's daughter. According to him, Alex was the one abusing the child, not Teresa. Teresa was constantly complaining that Alex was abusing their daughter, and she wanted to do anything she could to protect her. Teresa's plan was essentially to have Alex, her ex, killed by Duncan at a time where she was at work, so she had an alibi.
Starting point is 00:33:55 Matthew said that he had given Teresa some pointers on how to get rid of a gun. I told her if you got one and you want to report it stolen, that's up to you. Tell a lot of people do it. They'll report it stolen, and then there you go. And then that, she was just saying, when what date she was thinking about,
Starting point is 00:34:23 and on what day she was thinking about, to make sure I was at work and she was at work. On November 13th, Teresa put the plan into action. When Teresa had gotten to work that night, she made some comment to the effect of it's going to happen tonight. Later on, really into the next morning, around 1 or 1.30, Matt is still working there. Teresa's still there.
Starting point is 00:34:56 And that's when Duncan Bogle arrives back. And Duncan tells Matt Plum that he shot two people on the front porch. Duncan was very upset about what had happened. And they spent several hours trying to calm him down. After that takes place, Matt takes the gun. Okay, and you know where it's at now? I'm gonna hurt out. That's gonna be exactly where it's out.
Starting point is 00:35:35 You can't take my water. The murder weapon is recovered just 10 miles away in a nearby creek. And the handgun was located. It had the exact same serial number on it from the gun box that they had found at Teresa Cox's residence. During the autopsy, there was three projectiles found in Alex's body, two in his chest cavity, and one in his head. These were consistent with the other bullets that were found on scene. Nine millimeter projectiles, full metal jacket.
Starting point is 00:36:08 No projectiles were found in Brianna's body. The Highway Patrol Crime Lab here in Missouri were able to determine that that gun that was found of the creek, in fact, fired the shell casings that were located at the crime scene. It was that pivotal piece where we could say that the casings came from the gun and that the gun came from Teresa. On December 1st, Matthew Plum is arrested. Matt Plum was originally charged with first-degree murder as an accessory for aiding and encouraging Teresa Cox and her plot. But when investigators tried to arrest Teresa and Duncan, They cannot be located. It looked like Duncan and Teresa had gone into hiding.
Starting point is 00:37:05 It was like living a nightmare because we didn't know what her plan was. Teresa Cox and Duncan Bogle appear to be on the run after evidence linked them in a murder plot to kill Teresa's ex-husband. Nobody knew what they might do next. So we were on high alert. The couple manages to evade police for a week and a half until a coworker comes forward with a tip. She said that she took Bogle and Cox to Walmart
Starting point is 00:37:50 where they got hair dye and they got a new phone for Bogle. She said they then cut and dyed their hair and were acting suspiciously. She took them to a truck stop where they were going to make their way to places unnotes. What she did give us was the newest phone number because after we took Teresa's phone, she bought a new phone. I gave the U.S. Marshals that phone number, which they were able to subsequently ping that phone number and locate Teresa Cox and Duncan Bogle in San Francisco, California. I believe they were trying to blend in with homeless people and disappear.
Starting point is 00:38:29 They were arrested on December 8th, almost a month after when the murders had taken place. taken place. Duncan Bogle was charged with two counts of first-degree murder, and Teresa Cox was charged with first-degree murder and second-degree murder. In preparation for trial, the prosecution makes a deal with Matthew Plum in exchange for his testimony against Teresa. Matt Plum would end up receiving a five-year sentence for conspiracy to commit murder, and he received a three-year sentence for tampering with evidence. And his sentence, and his sentences were ran consecutively, meaning one after the other, for a total of eight years. With his help, prosecutors piece together a narrative to convince the jury of Teresa's guilt.
Starting point is 00:39:23 I think that she didn't want her daughter. I think that she didn't want Alex to have her daughter. I think that she just wanted to wipe that side of her life away and move on to the next chapter for herself. I believe Teresa decided to murder him the day his daughter got forcibly removed. The checks were going to stop coming for child support. And that's the day that she called in, the gun missing. To convince her co-conspirators to kill Alex, Teresa turned him into a villain. Her narrative was, Alex is a bad person, Alex is abusive.
Starting point is 00:40:14 Nothing that was ever founded, but those negative things probably make Matt or make Duncan Bogle feel like they're actually helping her out and that they're just not harming someone that is truly innocent. Duncan was definitely the perfect mark for her. Generally, he always wants to do what makes other people happy. And so it made him an easy target. Teresa and Duncan's murder trial is set for October 2020. Nearly two years after Alex and Brianna were murdered. But it never gets underway. Teresa Cox would plead guilty to two counts of second-degree murder.
Starting point is 00:41:03 Duncan Bogle also would enter guilty pleas to two counts of second-degree murder, as well as a count of endangering the welfare of a child. On November 1, 2022, Teresa is sentenced to two consecutive life terms. in prison. Duncan receives the same sentence, plus an additional year for child endangerment. Teresa Cox sent her significant other over to the residents,
Starting point is 00:41:36 knowing that her child is inside that home. That's one of those things that always sticks with me. In the aftermath of the trial, Alex's loved ones have dedicated themselves to raising his little girl. his little girl. Alex was a very great dad. He did what he had to do to protect his daughter,
Starting point is 00:42:04 and him and Brianna died protecting her. Alex would want to be remembered by the way that he loved people, and he was a loving, loving, loving son and brother and father. A granddaughter only spent one night an emergency an emergency foster care, and we went down and picked her up the next morning to take care of her. And we've had her ever since. And now that we have adopted her a little while ago, it's a legalization of what was already in our hearts.
Starting point is 00:42:44 She's asked us about calling us mom and dad, but it seems uncomfortable for us. We can continue to be Papa, and Mimi, we point out to her that Mom and Dad are still there, they're just in heaven.

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