So Supernatural - HAUNTED: The Moberly-Jourdain Incident

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

In the early 1900s, Eleanor Jourdain and Charlotte Moberly visited the Palace of Versailles. The two academics were hoping for a pleasant trip. Instead, they found themselves transported over a century into the past where they saw the long-dead Queen of France, Marie Antoinette.

When we think about time travel, the thing that probably comes to mind is a big silver machine, like in the movies, or a glimmering portal to an alternate reality. Eleanor Jourdain and Charlotte Moberly didn't need a time machine or a portal. In 1901, the two women visited the Palace of Versailles, and somehow they managed to stumble over a century into the past. Moberly and Jourdain were serious academics who spent years trying to understand what happened to them. To this day, the answer could still be out there. This is Supernatural. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. This week's episode is about Charlotte Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain,

two college administrators who claimed that they traveled back in time during a visit to Versailles. To this day, nobody knows what to make of their story or the evidence they came up with. We'll have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. In 1901, 55-year-old Charlotte Moberly was selected to be the principal of St. Hugh's College in England. Since this was a huge undertaking, the school's administrators know that she'd need someone to help her out. So they hire 38-year-old Eleanor Jourdain to be her assistant. The women have a 17 year age difference, but the pairing is a perfect fit. Both of them are intellectuals with a proven track record. And

keep in mind, this was the early 20th century. Females in academia weren't that common, especially at such a high level. The women decided that they want to get to know each other a little bit better before the school year starts. So they plan a trip to France that August where they'll be visiting the Palace of Versailles. Versailles was the former royal residence of King Louis XIV. This guy was famously opulent and it shows. Versailles is huge, spanning thousands of acres. And it's filled with intricate paintings, gilded statues, and lush gardens.

And since it was basically the seat of political power for over a century, it's filled with tales of royal court intrigue. So it's no surprise that in 1901, when Charlotte and Eleanor arrive at the estate, they're excited to explore. The place that they most want to visit is the Petit Trianon. I should point out that the women didn't know all that much about French history, but Charlotte had read an article about Marie Antoinette when she was a little girl. So she knew the Petit Trianon was this small, decorative little chateau that Louis XVI gave to his wife Marie shortly after

they got married. Because Versailles is huge, Charlotte and Eleanor aren't exactly sure where to find the Petit Trianon. They know it's on the palace grounds around a mile away from the main palace, but that's really all the information that they're working with. Fortunately, it's a gorgeous afternoon and the women are hitting it off, so they don't really bother asking for directions. They just kind of start walking and roaming. The whole time they're just laughing and talking and it takes them a while before they realize that they're lost. Before, the women could see other tourists here and there peppered through the grounds. But now they were completely alone, which just does not seem right. I mean, this is Versailles in August. There should be

tourists everywhere. Charlotte and Eleanor aren't really sure what to do, but they figure that they'll bump into someone before too long and they can ask for directions. So they just keep walking. After some time, they come to a rund-down farmhouse. It seems deserted, but near the farmhouse is a plow that's been left lying on its side. The two women are looking at the plow when they feel this deep depression and sense of fear come over them. Now, they don't acknowledge the mood to each other, but both of them definitely sense it. And as they keep walking along, their feeling of despair only deepens. Pretty soon, they see two men walking towards them. The men are wearing long grayish green coats. But from the way Charlotte

and Eleanor tell the story, this outfit didn't strike them as odd. They just sort of assumed that the men were maybe gardeners at Versailles. So the two women approach the gardeners and they ask how to get to the Petit Triano. While the men are talking, Eleanor sees a small cottage to her right. A young woman is standing in front of it, passing a jug of water to a small girl. Eleanor can't help thinking how out of place this like mother-daughter duo looks. I mean, first of all, their clothes are really old-fashioned. And second, like why are they even here? Like they don't look like tourists and tourists don't usually carry old jugs of water around. In any case, the two gardeners are directing her and Charlotte to keep going straight.

So they start walking in that exact direction. But the Petit Triano is nowhere in sight. Instead, they come across a dark wood. Both Eleanor and Charlotte are scared of going into the woods, but they still haven't acknowledged any of what's going on. It's almost like their depression is keeping them from vocalizing what's happening. Also, they're concerned for each other. Charlotte doesn't want to alarm Eleanor, and Eleanor feels the same way about her older friend. So without discussing their fear, they just keep walking straight into the woods.

The deeper they go, the more oppressive their depression becomes. Then suddenly the women come across what looks like a small gazebo. Charlotte says she squinted at it, but she couldn't make sense of the trees behind it. In fact, the foliage looks completely flat and lifeless, like the gazebo has been kind of plopped

in front of some sort of tapestry. But before they can investigate, the women notice a man standing next to the gazebo. At first, they're relieved, but then he turns and they see his face. It's scarred and covered in raw pockmarks and immediately the women look away. But it's not his superficial flaws that bother them. It was his expression. Something about him seems extremely cruel and Charlotte feels this chilling certainty that

the man is evil. And with that, she's done pretending. Charlotte wants to get out of the woods as quickly as possible. And as if in answer to her prayers, both women suddenly hear the sound of someone running towards them. But when they turn around, no one's there, which is why they're startled by a young, dark-haired man suddenly standing next to them. The man is smiling, but he looks really nervous. He gently tells the women that they're going the wrong way, and he pleads with them to go back. At this point, Charlotte and Eleanor are just happy to have someone who can help them, and they'll do anything to get away from the pockmarked man.

They follow the young man, and eventually he takes them out of the woods and into a wide clearing. Then he leads them over a bridge. But as they cross the bridge, Eleanor is filled with this eerie sensation. She feels as if she is surrounded by people on all sides. Now this doesn't make any sense because the bridge is completely empty except for Charlotte and Eleanor and the young man. But Eleanor's feeling of being surrounded is so strong that she's literally like pulling her skirt out of the way as if she's making room for invisible pedestrians. Eleanor is really creeped out by this, but she gets distracted by a small chateau up ahead. Immediately, both women know

it's the Petit Trianon, but Eleanor doesn't feel relieved. In fact, the feeling of gloom that's been plaguing her only gets worse, and Charlotte feels the same sense of despair, but she's distracted from her dark mood when she sees a woman sitting in front of the chateau. The woman is wearing an old-fashioned green dress, a white hat, and she appears to be sketching some sort of drawing. Just as Charlotte and Eleanor are about to pass her, the woman looks up from her picture and stares right at both of them. Something about her face and perfect stillness totally creeps Charlotte out. Suddenly, a young footman bursts out of the chateau behind the drawing woman. He yells at Charlotte and Eleanor and says that they're trying to access the chateau through the wrong door.

He tells them to use the entrance on the other side. So they go around the house to the main entrance, and the second they walk through the door, they feel this huge change. Coming up, we'll explore whether Charlotte and Eleanor traveled back in time. Now back to the story. The instant Charlotte and Eleanor walk through the door of the Petit Trianon, their oppressive sadness lifts. Instantly, they feel lighter and they're surrounded by tourists again. At this point, Charlotte and Eleanor are super weirded out.

But honestly, they're so relieved to be among normal seeming people that they tour the chateau as though nothing had happened. They even stop at a cafe for tea afterwards, which is the perfect chance for them to chat about what just happened. They even stop at a cafe for tea afterwards, which is the perfect chance for them to chat about what just happened. But for some reason, they say nothing. It's like, it's almost like they're too stunned to put it into words. The two women return to Paris and a whole week goes by. Meanwhile, Charlotte can't stop thinking about what happened at Versailles. It just keeps bothering her until finally she has to talk to Eleanor. She just straight up asks Eleanor,

do you think the Petit Trianon is haunted? And Eleanor simply tells her, yes. This opens up the floodgates. The women realize that they both felt a strange depression come over them after getting lost on the grounds. And they also agree that the man who led them out of the woods and across the bridge seemed to just appear like out of thin air. And they discover that they were both freaked out by the pockmarked man with the sinister face. Later, Charlotte brings up the lady in the hat who is sketching outside the Petit Triano.

But Eleanor is confused. She says that she didn't see the sketching woman. This frightens Charlotte. The woman, her charcoals, and her easel should have been impossible to miss. She was literally staring at them, and they walked right past her to get to the chateau entrance. But no matter how much Charlotte describes the woman, Eleanor has no idea what she's talking about. This makes the two women realize that even though they'd been right next to each other, they might have experienced very different things. So before they continue their discussion, they decide to separately write down what they remember.

And sure enough, when they compare notes, their experiences were significantly different. For instance, Eleanor had felt the bodies of other people on the bridge with them, but Charlotte experienced no such thing. And Charlotte also didn't see the young mother and daughter with that jug. The women really don't know what to make of any of this. Charlotte is leaning towards Versailles being haunted by ghosts, but Eleanor isn't sure. It just, it sounds too silly. For a few months, they don't really talk about their experience with anyone else.

Then, in late 1901, a French friend happens to drop in on Eleanor for a visit. Almost as a joke, Eleanor asks her friend if she's ever heard of the Petit Trianon being haunted, and the friend instantly says yes. She explains that on certain days in August, a lot of people have reported seeing Marie Antoinette sitting outside the Petit Trianon in an old-fashioned dress and hat. Eleanor is stunned. She immediately writes to Charlotte, and after doing some research, Charlotte confirms that they actually visited Versailles on August 10, 1901, which is significant because on this exact date, over a century earlier, the French Revolution kicked off. Basically, in the late 1700s, French citizens were angry about a bunch of things. Food was super expensive, and it seemed

like every single government official was corrupt. Everyone was looking for someone to blame, and that person was Marie Antoinette. It had been decades since she moved to France from Austria to marry Louis XVI, but the French people always saw her as an outsider. And she even had more of a reputation than her husband for being super lavish. So in 1792, when the revolution was at its height, the mob went straight for her. They killed Marie's guards, imprisoned her and her family, and a few years later, Marie and Louis were executed by guillotine. The French Revolution coincidence sends Charlotte and Eleanor on a spiral of wild possibilities. Charlotte wonders whether they saw Marie Antoinette's ghost, but Eleanor has an even stranger theory.

She asks Charlotte whether she thinks it's possible that the two of them entered into one of Marie Antoinette's memories. Like, maybe in the years leading up to her capture, Marie Antoinette was sitting in front of the Petit Trianon knowing that a mob would come for her soon. Eleanor explains that if they somehow entered Marie's memory of that day, then the overwhelming sense of fear and depression they experienced makes perfect sense. Obviously, this is a crazy theory, but at this point, the two women are desperate for some sort of explanation. So in 1904, sometime after their initial visit, Eleanor and Charlotte decide to return to Versailles to do some more research. And what they discover is shocking.

First, everything about the Versailles grounds looks completely different. Distances are shorter and whole landmarks are missing. And no matter how many times they circle the estate, they can't find the gazebo in the woods. They can't even find the woods. And that bridge that Eleanor and Charlotte walked across is missing too. The two women immediately start researching old maps and asking around about the missing landmarks. They finally get a break when they learn that there was a bridge on the grounds of Versailles. In 1789, there had been a small bridge on the estate, but it had since been torn down. Naturally, the women are freaked out,

like how in the world were they able to walk across a bridge 112 years after it had been destroyed? They really don't have a choice but to keep digging for answers. And keep in mind, they are both academics, so this sort of deep dive research is totally within their wheelhouse. During their visit, remember, Charlotte and Eleanor had seen a plow of some sort laying in the garden. But after interviewing local experts, they're told that plows haven't been used at the Triano for over a century. They also learned something about the men in long green coats. As it turns out, the only officials at Versailles who ever wore green coats were Marie Antoinette's personal guards back in the 1700s. As far as the scary man with the pockmarked face, Charlotte and Eleanor find a man who fits the description.

He was known as the Comte du Vaudreuil. Now, the comte was Creole, so he had tanned skin, just like the man they saw. He reportedly suffered a terrible case of smallpox, which left him with a scarred, pockmarked face. And he was allegedly the lover of Marie Antoinette's best friend, Gabriel Dupont-Lastro. The comte isn't known in history as an evil guy per se, but he was supposedly domineering and socially cunning. And it's no secret that a lot of aristocrats in King Louis XVI's court were pretty snobby, unfriendly people. At any rate, the women are pretty sure that this was him. And the only theory that they can think of to explain all of this

is that they time-travel traveled. Now, it definitely sounds really irrational and impossible, even to them. But honestly, they can't figure out a better explanation. And as time goes by, they become more and more certain that they somehow stumbled into the past. So obviously, I know this story is really out there. We only have their word that any of this happened, and they could easily be making it up. But the thing is, Charlotte and Eleanor aren't the only ones who claim that they've traveled to a different time. Allegedly, in October 1979, two couples from Britain, Jeff and Pauline Simpson, and their friends Len and Cynthia Gisby, were holidaying in Montélimar, France.

It's their first night, and they're riding high on the fact that they're on vacation in another country. But they've also had a huge drive, so they're pretty exhausted. They start looking for a hotel to retire in for the night, and after lots of fruitless circling, they discover this old-fashioned two-story building. It's labeled simply Hotel. The building itself looks decrepit. It's definitely not something that they would pick as a first choice, but it's getting late, and they're just happy to have found somewhere.

So they rush inside. They don't really describe the person at the front desk, except that it was the hotel's owner and he didn't speak any English. But they're able to piece together that he has vacancies. They're super relieved, but their mood totally changes once they see their two rooms for the night. They can't believe how bare bones and old-fashioned everything looks. For one, the windows inside the rooms have wooden shutters and no glass, which is really bizarre.

And the doors are so medieval-seeming, like in place of a key and a lock, they have just like wooden catches. Neither of the rooms have a telephone, which in 1979 is completely unheard of. But the two couples aren't in a position to complain, so they just turn in for the night. Nothing remarkable happens during the night, but the next morning when the two couples go down for breakfast, they are in for a huge surprise. Coming up, we'll piece together what might have happened to Charlotte and Eleanor and the two couples. Now back to the story. When Jeff and Pauline Simpson and Len and Cynthia Gisby come down from their rooms for breakfast, they are shocked.

One of the people at the table is a woman in an old-fashioned ball gown. The other two are French police officers, but their uniforms seem really dated, like something out of the 1900s. They definitely don't look like other cops that they've seen around town. The couples are weirded out, but they kind of chalk it up to the foreign locale. Like, they are in the southeast of France, so who knows what this town's thing is. And their next surprise is actually a pleasant one. When the Simpsons and the Gispies go to check out, they're told they only have to pay 19 francs, which is insane for one night, two bedrooms, and four breakfasts. It should be more like 250 francs.

Suddenly, they love this rickety old place. They slept well and had a yummy breakfast, all for 19 francs. The two couples are sold. They even take pictures of the hotel before heading off to their next destination. So fast forward a few weeks later, they're now on their way back home, and they decide that they want to stay at this hotel again. They get to Monte Le Mans, and they find the exact street that the hotel was on. But no matter how much they look, they can't find the place. When they ask town locals for help, nobody knows what they're talking about. Eventually, the couples are forced to just give up and stay somewhere else, and they're charged the typical 200 francs on checkout the next morning.

They get back to Britain, and they probably would have chalked the whole thing up to bad directions, but something weird happens. Both couples had taken pictures of their holiday, including that rustic hotel, but when they each develop their film, they find out that the pictures of the hotel are missing. Not blank, not blurry. The pictures themselves are just gone. They sort through all their film again and again,

but they can't find a single one. The couples are so disturbed by this that they supposedly travel back to France just to search for the building, but the trip turns up empty again. The couples aren't ready to let it go though, so they research the uniforms that they remember the policemen in the lobby wearing. And it turns out, policemen in Montélimar did wear that kind of uniform, but they wore it back in 1905. So by all appearances, they literally time traveled. Like maybe they were hallucinating, but that doesn't really make sense that they would all four have the exact same experience. The only other explanation is that the two British couples and Charlotte and Eleanor all decided to lie.

But in Charlotte and Eleanor's case, I mean, they spent years of their lives doing research and piecing things together, and they actually took it a step further. A few years after their experience, the two women sent a letter about their experience to the Society for Psychical Research, or SPR, an organization that researches paranormal or supernatural events. Needless to say, the scholars at SPR were not impressed. They dismissed Charlotte and Eleanor's adventures, saying that they'd just mistaken modern people and objects as being from the past. But Charlotte and Eleanor aren adventures saying that they just mistaken modern people and objects as being from the past. But Charlotte and Eleanor aren't easily put off, so they decide to publish a book using pseudonyms to hide their identity. Charlotte and Eleanor call their book an adventure. Inside, they not only include a step-by-step account of their journey to the past, they also provide all the proof they've dug up through the years of arduous research.

And their hard work pays off because an adventure is a hit. People are captivated by the story of time traveling and French royalty. But the book also has its fair share of critics. One of the main critiques is that Charlotte and Eleanor might have unknowingly wandered into a historical reenactment. There might be a pretty good explanation for how this could have happened. According to historian Joan Evans, a French artist named Robert de Montesquieu

kept a home near Versailles in the early 1900s. This is significant because Montesquieu was a high society dandy known for staging vivid reenactments. In these performances, gay Parisian men played all the roles, both male and female. Evans thinks that this is what Charlotte and Eleanor encountered during their walk around Versailles. If it's true, it would mean that the sketching woman Charlotte saw wasn't Marie Antoinette. She wasn't even a woman. Marie was a male actor fully committing to a role. It could also explain the flatness of the trees in the woods behind the gazebo. Eleanor had said that they looked strangely flat, like a tapestry, so maybe it was just some sort of set design. Except there's just no record that Montesquieu put on any performance at Versailles in 1901.

In any case, sometime after An Adventure was published, news leaked that Charlotte and Eleanor were the authors. And in 1957, Lucille Eremonger, one of their school's former students, published her own book analyzing an adventure. Lucille is ruthless. She doesn't bother challenging the specifics. Instead, she goes straight for the jugular, attacking the women's characters. In her scathing book called Ghosts of Versailles, Miss Moberly and Miss Jourdain and Their Adventure, Lucille accuses her former teachers of being lesbian lovers who were driven mad by their lust. Seriously. Lucille insinuates that Charlotte and Eleanor's account of time traveling in Versailles can't be trusted because the two women were so distracted by their lust for each other that they confused modern day people and objects. Now, obviously, this is incredibly homophobic. Like, sure, the two school teachers were companions, but there's no evidence to speak

to their being any more than friends. And even if they were in love, like what does that have to do with their credibility? And last I checked, there's no proof that gay relationships cause hallucinations of French royalty. Modern day critics don't buy Lucille's theory, but they also don't think that Charlotte and Eleanor stumbled into some kind of reenactment like Joan Evans said either. They simply think that Charlotte and Eleanor had fan some kind of reenactment like Joan Evans said either. They simply think that Charlotte and Eleanor had fanciful imaginations. But this honestly doesn't match up with what we do know about these women. Charlotte and Eleanor weren't frivolous people. They were serious academics. Like, maybe they got some publishing money for their book, but why risk their reputations with such an insane story?

Also, time travel isn't that far-fetched. In fact, scientists say it's totally possible. Now, experts say traveling forward in time to the future is much more probable than the reverse. But according to Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity, journeys to the past are theoretically possible. This would require passing through a black hole or even a wormhole. But with how limited our concepts are on these things, it could be equally possible to just stumble into the past somehow, or to not realize when you've crossed an invisible threshold. We just don't know enough yet scientifically to say that this isn't possible, which means it's impossible to say what exactly happened to Charlotte Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain that warm summer day in Versailles. They might have been mistaken. The entire experience could have

been a subconscious invention of their imaginative minds, or an idea for a book deal that they made up after the fact. Or maybe they did see Count Voudry's scary pockmarked face. Maybe they did walk through a portal and across a bridge into a bygone era. In which case, it's possible the portal is still there in Versailles, just waiting for the next person to stumble into the past. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next week with another episode. To hear more stories hosted by me, check out Crime Junkie and all Audiochuck originals.