So True with Caleb Hearon - Asher Perlman Drinks Salt Everyday

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Welcome back! This week’s guest is the hilarious Asher Perlman! Asher and Caleb talk biking around the city, living forever, a harrowing encounter with a medical professional, poison, and much more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Asher! @asherperlman Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Visit https://hin.ge/SoTruewithCalebHearon to download Hinge today! Get 40% off select Lola Blankets products at https://Lolablankets.com by using code SOTRUE at checkout. Experience the world’s #1 blanket with Lola Blankets. Visit https://Quince.com/sotrue for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. To find delicious recipes and learn more about the antioxidant goodness of POM Wonderful, please go to https://pomwonderful.com Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Head to https://RULA.com to find a therapist the easy way. Go to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE. So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Anna Weis. All episodes are filmed in The So Trudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. A Wave series. https://wavesportsandentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wave. Yeah, I don't think bad. I don't think bad. That doesn't make any sense to me. No bad. I don't think bad either. No bad. Maybe good.

Maybe good. Are you getting stressed out talking about this? No. I was thinking about it the whole time anyways, so now that you brought... Asher. Caleb. What's going on, brother? Nothing much.

How you feeling? I'm feeling good. You know, it's so funny. I was trying to... On the way over here, I was trying to remember when we met, if it was in Chicago or New York for the first time. And I remembered my first memory of you, but I don't know. This better be nice.

It can be mean. It's super mean. Is it really? No, but I don't remember if we met or if I just, do you remember? No. You don't remember. No. I'm bad at this, though.

It's not. I am too, because, and so this could be like fully the fourth time that we had encountered each other. But I was walking through I.O. And you were sitting in one of the tables with some friends. Okay. And I was walking with someone and he said, that's careful. Caleb, he's with future.

Who said that? I think it was John Sabine. I'm going to send him a check. John, you're checking's in the mail. He called it. That's really funny. I think it was he's the future. It was something like that.

I was like, damn, yeah, okay, that's cool. And then, I mean, tough look for the future. If this is what we've got to look forward to. If this is the future, I feel good about it. If this is what we've got to look forward to. I feel good about this. That's really funny.

I fucking loved hanging out of I. Every day hanging out at I-O to me felt like, I mean, I moved there right after college, and I just felt like everybody was so brilliant and fun. I didn't feel any of the, like, I don't know. I think there were people who's experienced, and I want to know what yours was. I think there are people who's experienced at I-O.

was like, oh, everyone's getting spots, and I'm not. And I was just like, I think this is so fucking fun. I loved it. I also think that half of your listeners just turned it up. They were like, oh, they're going to talk about, Improv? They're going to be comparing their experiences at one of the improv theaters in Chicago. But I loved it.

Asher, they turned the episode off when they saw that you were a straight man. I'll tell you that right now. That's totally fair. They saw the thumbnail and said, ah, pass. They knew it from the thumbnail. Do you think you present as gay

in any way or shape or form? Well, I'm not good. I don't know. You have good style. You have nice glasses, but there's an energy that radiates from your eyes that said, this is a heterosexual ally.

And you think the energy reads in a thumbnail. Oh, it's going to read in the thumbnail. The thumbnail, they're like, they see, wow. They're going to see the thumbnail and they're going to go, oh, God. straight guy again. I hate when Kelob does this. It's probably all about football. Worse. It's about improv. But we get really into like who played on what team. But when like different Herald teams got cut. Let's go. Let's do it. Well, you know the only

drama I experienced that I owe, Asher, was that I didn't get placed on the Herald team made out of my class. I mean, this is obviously on them. Like this is like whoever was on the Herald Commission at that time. Well, it turned, there turned out to be a reason for it, but they didn't, you know, they play little games. They didn't tell me that they were, there was someone leaving a veteran team and they wanted to put me on there. Oh, but he didn't know when he was leaving town. Oh.

So for like seven months with no explanation, I just wasn't on a Harold team. And I, I will say, I was not cooler mature. I was very pissed. I was like, everything I've done for this fucking theater, I had a weekly show. I was pissed. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? How did you find out? Was it months later?

It was eventually, I think I was so mean about it. I was so mad. I think eventually somebody from the Herald Commission was like, took me to lunch and was like, hey, we have a plan. Will you stop? But also, that's not, that's not a idea that is on them.

I think consistently people in power don't realize how much people not in power are hanging on their every decision in every word and how important it is. I think that everyone in power needs to appreciate how much people read into every little thing they do. I think also it's like I interned, you know, the internship at I.O. is that you go work

like a seven-hour shift once a week, every week that you're in classes, and I never missed a shift. And you don't get paid money. You get free classes, which is like... More valuable. It's totally more valuable. It's worth it's weight and gold. But that's why I was really pisses. I was like, I never missed a fucking shift at this theater, and you can't even like pity put me on a team. Wow. Mad. Power, okay, whose word are you hanging on? Who in power has...

Who has control over you right now? Whoever's in power at any given moment. I'm just saying I think that I give you have power everyone's like watching you. They're like, they're hanging on every like you're the king. Like I think, you know, like everyone's like, it's hard. Everyone here, everyone in this room is watching

your every move right now. Asher, I would give anything to have people in this room who respected me or cared what I thought. You are looking at a group of people who they don't think about my needs once in a year. Okay, well, you know, you're lucky. You're lucky.

I'm saying, hey, I don't have to worry about having yes, man. I'll tell you that fucking much. That's very good. That's lucky. I got a bunch of fucking no girls. All of them fully laughing at you say. Yeah, because you know, it's true. They're getting away with fucking murder.

They get paid too well to treat me too bad. I'm a massively put upon figure in history, and the books will reflect. What's your relationship to power? You know, actually, I have an answer for that. I think I don't like it. Really? Having it?

I don't like having it. Wow. I don't like having it. Wow. Why? I think because I think because I second-guessed so many, things. And I think, I think a precondition for handling power well is sort of like proceeding with confidence. And I don't think, I don't think I do that. Really, why not? I feel

like you're confident. You feel like a confident person or just with power? I think if you give me control, like, uh, this is slightly different. But like when I, when I did my, well, I don't want to talk. Come on. Come on do it. Don't be scared. I'll, I'll speak more generally. I did a project once. and the person in power basically was like do whatever you want. And I was like, this is horrible. Because now I have no, I need editorial oversight here. I don't want to tell you like this is the way it's going to go. And it was like very destabilizing for me.

But that's how it went. Did it go badly? I think it went well, actually. Okay. But the experience of it was really hard. I was like having a lot of anxiety during it. because I was like, this can't all be on my shoulders. What is there but the experience?

What is it about the experience? No, there is only the experience. If the experience was hell and the outcome is great, who cares? Yeah. I'm like that. I completely agree. I think that 10 or 15 years ago I would have disagreed. At this point, I'm fully on board with that.

Well, the experience is your life. Like, that's the like, if all your days of a thing were bad and then at the end, you're like, oh, but it turned out great. It's like, that sucks. I hate that. I don't have a bad time. I used to want to be a part of, If you had said the product is great,

but the people that you're working with are kind of lousy, I would have been like, that's fine. Like, we're making something important. And now if you told me the product is like fully mid, but you're with people you really love spending time with, I'm like, I'll sign the contract. That's the show. Put me on.

That's the show? That's so true podcasts. That's so true podcast. No, this is both. That's the beauty of this. I would die for these losers. This is both. And this show sucks.

I wish the quality of the product was good. It's bad, but I love these people with my whole heart. I would die for them. They don't really... Michelle won't look up from her laptop. Anna's kind of on her phone, but... No, I would die for them too. Yeah, I could feel that, and they would die for you.

They actually probably care more about what you want and need. Actually, for sure, they care more about your wants and needs than mine. And I actually like that. I think that's good. You think they care more about what my wants and needs? 100%. Absolutely not. Right now, if I said, someone get me a coffee, it wouldn't happen.

I've asked Michelle for a coffee before and she won't bring me one. Oh. Which is crazy because she's my assistant. But if you right now were like coffee, she'd be like, Oh, yes, sir. That's what she would do. Michelle emailed me last night and said, do you want a coffee tomorrow?

And did you get one? I didn't get one. You didn't? I didn't get one. How often do people take you up on the coffee order? All the time. Yeah. Wow.

Okay. I would have guessed. Really? Asher, you've missed out on this opportunity, but what I want to tell you is anytime you come around here in the future, take us for all we're worth. Really? I'm dead serious.

Take some of those snacks home. Get a coffee anytime someone asks. If there's ever a lunch order, like throw it in. I mean, I almost grabbed a Celsius, but I thought that was too much. You're drinking that stuff? I have drank that stuff.

That's why I didn't reach for it. Yeah. Because I'm trying to stop. I don't drink that stuff. I think it's killing us. It's bad. I think in five years there's going to be something called Celsius kidneys or something. Yeah.

I'm like, we don't know what it is. It's Celsius long. It really is. I think it's like it's too good. Something else is happening. It's not just like, well, there's caffeine in it. Yeah. Because if you like Google it, it's like, well, it is 200 milligrams.

It's like, a grande. Grande coffee from Starbucks has 300 or whatever. Like, that's not what's happening. Yeah. It's going to cause. Let me ask you this. Do you know how you feel at any time? Wait, wait, wait.

Do you know your feelings? Do you feel like you know your feelings? Like, are you able to be like, like, I don't, let me know. Do you know your feelings? This is a good question. I want to know why you're asking, but first let me answer it. Oh, no, no. First, let me tell you why I'm asking.

Okay, because that's great. That'll give you time to formulate. You were talking about Celsius. I don't drink Celsius or like energy drinks. because part of what, like, when people are like, oh, I'm so tired, I go get over it. But I think that only works for me because maybe I don't know how I'm feeling a lot of the time. Do you know what I'm saying? You're saying you're unaware of the fact that you're tired, which allows you to get over it?

Kind of, I think. Oh, I, okay, in that case, now that you've given some context, I think I'm very aware of. You know your feelings. I think I'm very aware. You know your feelings. Can I tell you what I thought you were going to say? Because this is my experience on Celsius. Yeah.

I think it kind of makes me unaware of my feelings. feelings because it's like your, I've never done like math or something, but I feel like that's what it feels like. Celsius is numbing you out? It like, well, I just feel completely untethered. Really? I'm like on the moon. Wait, have you ever had one? No, and now I'm like, I had no idea what was going on. Nicole's nodding. You should drink one right now and 10 minutes from now, tell me if what I'm saying is true. It, it's, it shouldn't be legal. What? It's just caffeine, right? No, I'm telling you, it's not, I mean, yes, that's what they would say. But no, I don't think it...

I mean, have you had it? I'm on one right now. On one. How do you feel? Do you feel out on the moon? He's on one. I feel like I'm living in 40. He's on Celsius?

I did not know it was like this for you guys. I knew you had it in here. That's how you know it's bad because you're on it. You're on it. You take it. You don't drink it, you take it. Yeah, you receive treatment. Yes, exactly.

It's administered to you by you. I think it's bad. That's fucking crazy. The first time I had when I was like, this is unlike anything I've ever felt. I never could have imagined that you would talk like this about Celsius. I've heard people like Monster or Red Bull or whatever

But I have no clue that Celsius was like Those don't do it I think there's something about this new class of energy drink It's like actual poison It's like it's like that machine And Princess Bride that like take the years off your life You know It's that's happening every time you drink a single once

Like two minutes are gone Do you know what I will say As the world comes to an end pretty swiftly soon We do have some of the best products we've ever had It's funny that I'm saying they're selling poison that's killing us and you're like fully great product how sick is it that you can put a feeling like that in a bottle that is amazing you want that for the end times you know what mean it's killing you don't worry those two years we're not going to make it to the point where those

matter right those are irrelevant just you know those years were never coming those years were a mirage in the desert you could be on the moon and grasping towards yeah in the meantime let's have pop-ey's fried chicken and let's have celsius let's have let's feel like we're on the moon let's be really fucking numbed out. Let's get weed to a place where basically if you take any amount more than 5 milligrams, you're in extreme danger. Let's get to that place. Let's green out. Let's numb out.

Let's feel fucking good on the way out. Fully. I mean that. Yeah. You can't get customer service anymore, but the products, when they're good, they're good. I just do think I'm going to get an email from like, you know, like, you never know if it's a scam or something, but it's like, here's your unique code if you want to participate in the class action lawsuit. Yeah. Like, you'll get a part of the money.

I'm going to get like a thousand of those emails for every receipt. Yeah. They're going to find you and you're going to get some fucking serious payback. But it's going to be after the, yeah. Oh, yeah. The food system is going to collapse soon. The climate's in a really bad place. So what I'm saying is right now, best case, we should have like triple cheeseburgers.

We should have like drinks that make you feel like you're on the moon. We should be city biking everywhere. That's my own personal agenda. Is that make you feel great? City biking? Yeah. Oh, brother. You have no idea what you've done.

You have asking me this, you have no idea the can of worms that you've opened. City biking is the most magical thing. First of all, if anyone can hear me out there, move to New York City and ride your city bike everywhere. I city bikeed home in the rain last night, 45 minutes. Do you know what I felt? Elation. And you think, wait, just so I understand. Ask all your questions.

You're talking about city biking specifically or just biking? No, on your own bike, it's a little fine. You can have your own bike. No, no, I'm just trying to understand what you look. Because I do bike, but I have my own bike. You have your own bike, yeah. Right now I'm like, am I missing something? riding city.

I am. Yes. You're gaining a lot. Heavy and stuff, right? Yeah, you're gaining a lot by having your own bike. But let me tell you what you're missing. Let me tell you exactly what you're missing.

You go to the station, there's a bike there you didn't know if there would be. First of all, that's surprise. That's excitement. With your own bike, you always know it's there. Yeah, yeah.

This is like the gambler's mind is excited by this. The gambers mind is excited about this. But let me tell you even something a little bit more special. Okay. Last night, when you pass other city bikers and they're on a city bike too, there's a brotherhood and a spiritual connection there, that the average biker cannot understand. I'm afraid to tell you.

You see another biker and you maybe go, oh, we're both on bikes. To both be on city bikes is such a commitment to the lifestyle. Last night, and I hope these girls hear this, I'm biking over the Manhattan Bridge at like 2.30 in the morning. It's raining, okay? I'm pretty fucking soaked. I can kind of barely see, to be honest,

because my glasses got all wet. I feel you. I got my headphones in, but they're open ears, so you can hear everything around you. Don't worry. I'm not being scary. I'm biking over the bridge, right?

Two girls biking towards me, also soaking wet. drenched from the rain and they when they get about five feet out from me they go yeah and i go yeah we pass we may never see each other again had they been on regular bikes there's no chance we connect like that that is beautiful it's the magic of the city bike the city bike has infused both of us and the city itself or does the city infuse the bike it's a symbiotic relationship wherein the city the bike itself and the driver are all receiving a sort of magical energy that we've only tapped into via participating with the city bike.

Wow. And are you doing the E assist or are you doing the non-E-assist? I think you know that I'm on the E-bike. Well, no, the reason... It's very sweet of you to ask. I think you know that I'm... I think you know I'm walking five extra blocks to the next station to get the E-bike.

No, I didn't know that. I just wasn't sure because I feel like city bike, like non-E city bikes are so heavy and kind of hard, like hard to maneuver. Those are tough. I've dealt with those. I don't enjoy as much, but to me it's like the e-bike

part of the magic comes from the pedal assist. Yeah. I mean, I used whatever Chicago's version of that is last time I was there. Oh, yeah. And I took the Greenway Trail, which is that trail that goes east-west in Chicago. Divi. Did divvy? Yes, divvied. Oh, yeah. And I did an e-assist

divvy, and... Did you feel the magic? I felt like I was on the moon. It's that and Celsius and E-assist bikes. Those are the things. Dude, I'm telling you, you can... The feeling I get from E-Bi-Bi-E-A-Sist's, liking over a bridge in New York is more than weed. I assume pretty close to meth. I've never done meth.

I haven't done it. And I feel like I'm getting to a place where if I just, if I practice enough gratitude and focus enough, I could get it almost to a feeling of heroin. I really believe that. Wow. I really believe that. People who do meth and heroin are listening to this being like,

what are you talking? They're idiots. They don't know how beautiful life can be. That's true. I actually, one time, oh my God. Sorry to the heroin community. If you're doing heroin, you're probably obviously in a pretty tough place.

and I want to say, I send you love, maybe try e-biking. For as much as I talk about the city bikes, they don't hit me up. Oh, they could be like a sponsor. They could at least say thank you. Yeah. They don't hit me up. They don't say anything to me.

Wait, you have sponsors, but they're, are they from, do you find them or is like the network say, this is your sponsor? It's a really convoluted process. Like, it's never me going out and being like, would you like to advertise on the show? But I'm sure Wave is doing that, going out and being like, what about so true?

See? this young man's got a bit of an audience. Yeah, I've got that wave is run by that guy. Yeah. That's cool. I like that guy a lot. You like this podcast. You like this podcast, see?

Sponsor it. It's got guests. They're mostly friends. Spend your money. I don't know how it works, but I know that they send us options and we say yes when we feel like we can. Actually, one of my,

because I was thinking about what my so true would be, this isn't my so true. Don't bring it up yet. No, it's not it. It's one of the ones I'm not doing. Good. But it is a so true, but it's not mine.

That's a different one. It's an old one. Tell me. Is that if you, once you ask for advice from two people, you don't need a third. Yeah. Because I think what I will do is I'll get advice from someone. They'll tell me their take. And then I'm like, okay, interesting.

I'll go to a second. They'll get their take. And maybe they'll agree, maybe they won't. But either way, I want a third. Yeah. And at that point, I have to clock. I'm like, okay, this is not about seeking advice anymore. It's about a compulsion.

Like, you need reassurance. Yeah. And that's not what you, you need to, like, sit with this now. I think after two pieces of advice, yeah, something else is going on. Yeah. For sure. You're enjoying what this conundrum says about you or you're looking for, like you're using it as like a way to connect, which I don't think that's inherently bad, but there's

something going on other than truly trying to get to the root of the problem. Yeah. Is your mom good advice? Do you get good advice from her? So my mom is very good at being honest and direct. So like I had to make a decision, like an industry decision recently. Ooh. And I had, and I asked her about it.

And she said, I don't know your industry well enough to tell you what I think you should do. But you want to talk through what you're thinking. And that was, I thought that was like, that was nice. That was good. She sounds so cool. She's awesome. I love her. Are you guys tight?

Very tight. Shout out. What's her name? Rachel Perlman. Rachel? Rachel? What's up, girl? I love her.

Some little lesbian in her life is going to get that back to her. Lesbians, young lesbians who watch this show operate as sort of carrier pigeons. for me. Really? Yeah. Someone will be on the show or like I'll be on a set and like it happened a lot last year when I was like filming a bunch that I was working with some actor who really wouldn't know who I am necessarily or why I should be in the movie other than maybe I was good for the role. And they like the fourth day of set they'll come and be like, okay my niece says I have to tell you that she's a huge fan and I go, what do her bangs look like? You know what I mean? And the answer is almost always blunt.

You know what I mean? So that's kind of what lesbians are out there propagating the message for me. Wow. When do you think? Because, I mean, you have, I would say, I would say you have a very, like a rising level of recognizability. Right? Okay.

Right? I'm listening. When do you think that you're, when do you think it's going to be more just like everyone knows who I am? Oh, I don't know. I try not to think about it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Because I think it might already be more than you even know. Uh, yeah, who knows? Whatever, right? Like, whatever. I don't know. Fuck. Who care?

I don't know. Not who care. It's a good question, but I don't know. I just try not to think too much about it. I'm like, because also the reality is like it doesn't matter. It won't make me happy. That's not what makes me happy. Yeah.

And also it'll be gone someday even if it comes. So putting any type of stock in it is like, what are we guys talking about this? Not about you. We were actually. Yeah. You're downfalls in a minute. We were talking about it earlier. Before you got here, we were like, this is, like, the clock is ticking.

On our, on you, on that, no, no, no, no. We were just, I'm open to that conversation. No, we were just talking about that. We were just talking about, in general, culture moves. Yeah. And so things that were like, I was talking about things that were very popular when I was a kid. I think, like, when you come of age, those are, you're like, these are the things. Yeah.

And then now when you get older, you're like, oh, wait, no, those things were popular when I was a kid. Yeah. And now other things are popular. So it wasn't about you. No, but also about me. This will shit. I mean, like, you won't be cool forever. this will shift. I will certainly, I can already see it happening sometimes in small ways.

There will be a reckoning in the future about things I've said on this show where people will come to view it differently because the context has changed. Right now I'm like this young comedian who gets away with saying a lot of things that maybe like in five years I'm certain people are going to have very big feelings about. Yeah. And I don't care. I don't care now. I certainly won't care then. Yeah. But like, yeah, this is not forever. We're in like such a beautiful, we're in such a beautiful time of life with this show and like creation right now where it's like we just got really lucky and we get to be lucky for a little bit.

Yeah. Have you thought about how you'll handle it when that, if this backlash that you say is inevitable happens, do you have you thought about like how you'll approach that? I'll be fine. I'll weather it. I feel like it's fine. I'll come out on the other end because the truth of the matter is I don't, I'm not scared because I don't have anything to be scared of. I actually like who I am as a person and I think I am a good person to the extent that that's a thing you can be. And so I'm like, it'll be fine. They'll come back around. I mean, how many times have we like, we do this in society? We love doing this. We love, like, we love loving something, then we love

hating it. Person thing, whatever. I don't, I don't worry too much about it. Hopefully I'll relax a little bit. Yeah. That'd be nice. Yeah. I look forward to relaxing someday. Have you, have you, have you had intense backlash to anything already? Yeah. You have? folks this episode is brought to you by hinge did you know that nearly eight out of ten people looking to find dates and connections turned to friends and family for dating help we all know how important it is for your friends to like the person you're dating not all of us i'll tell you that not all of us and Hinge is here to help them get involved early on to make sure you're matching with the right people. Friends take lets the people who know you best submit a short take for you to put on your profile.

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Do you fear the things you're saying on there? Do you feel like you guys keep it in safe zones? I mean, I fear most things I say most of the time. Really? Which it actually makes it very ironic to have a podcast or to do this. Yeah. But that's the podcast. That's for you.

yeah um but uh yeah i definitely i feel like like anything the more i do it the less any individual thing feels important like this is true of of all creative projects like you know the first that you do once and you're like wow i really this has to be perfect i want to and then by the hundredth time you're like it's pretty you know like i'm good like it's okay yeah just put it out yeah um But I think, like, the first couple episodes, I was like, God, I think we see lift this out. Let's cut this, whatever. And then Michael Cruz Kane, who I host her with,

he's much more cool and confident. Yeah. And he'll be like, you're fine. Yeah. And actually, that's a huge gift, I think. I think everyone needs a Michael Cruz Kane in their life to say, like, it's fine. Yeah? Yeah.

He makes you feel, but you believe it when he says it. He makes you feel like it's actually fine. I feel very dismissed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a bad guy. He's not listening to me at all. And I call my mom. Yeah.

Rachel. No, no, I think he's, I think he's right. Like even when he says, I'm like, obviously you're right. Obviously, I don't need to worry about that. So it's good. Do you worry a lot in general? Do you think of yourself as a person who worries? Yeah.

Really? What's the biggest one? Be honest. Be honest? Yeah. What's your biggest worry? Do you roll? Okay, this is a good one.

I like this one. Why? Have you thought about it? Because everyone should be thinking about it. I have been saying recently, I've encountered a number of people recently that I'm so, they haven't considered they're going to die. This is so, okay, this is...

They're being so fucking annoying and myopic and like truly like pissing me off in a way that I'm like, you've never considered that you're going to die. You're being so annoying about this thing. Do you know what I'm saying? I absolutely, I mean, this is... I thought about this obviously a lot.

I think about, I mean, I'm not exaggerating 40 times a day. Really? But I think that if death weren't a thing and it became a thing, it would be an emergency. Yeah. It would be a global emergency.

if we're like, hey, you guys, do you know how generally things just keep going and like we've all been around forever? Tom doesn't do that anymore. He's gone. He's gone. And now he's rotting. Yeah. That would be like every single politician in the world

would be like, this is all hands on deck. We're trying to figure out how to stop this thing. We don't fully get it yet. But just because we're all used to it, we don't think about it. I think a lot of people have successfully distracted themselves to the point where they don't think about it at all. and I think that's way worse than thinking about it.

Yeah. I could see it going both ways because there is sort of a beauty in... Like, if worrying about it is impacting your ability to enjoy life, then maybe not thinking about it could be... Make you happier, ultimately, I don't know. Maybe.

But maybe it would be a more shallow happiness. Maybe there's more depth to a life where you're considering the end. I don't know. Does worrying about it affect your ability to be happy? it definitely has. Yeah. Like sleepless nights, that kind of thing.

So that's not useful. That's not good. No, no, that's not helpful. Yeah. So what are you doing? What do you, what is the fear do you think? Absolutely panicking. Wait, wait.

Wait, what am I doing? What are you doing about it? And also, what do you, what is the fear? The fears that I'm going to die suddenly. I mean, I'll call, I call poison control all the time. No, you do not. All the time. Really?

I could call and say, it's me and they would know who that was. What are you consuming that is? I called, I called poison control. control when I ate too many tums. And they were like, it's fine. I'm sure. If I take like Tylenol and then a prescription medication and I'm not sure if that would interact or something, I'll call.

It's mostly prescription based. Yeah. Although I think one time my wife and I were at an Airbnb with a hot tub and I was like, I think I swallowed some of the chlorine because I had like a little chlorine thing that was like occasionally lifting and releasing more. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. And I just happened to open my mouth at the same time that the thing, like, that it's a little chlorine first.

You were just, might like this. You're joking, but that is kind of. And I was like, well, obviously, like, the amount of chlorine in the water is fine, but that concentrated amount wasn't. So I called poison control in there like, you're fine. Yeah. And your wife was like, you're ruining vacation, please. She's very tolerant. Really?

She's very tolerant. I love her. God bless me. Also, chance blur where I made that mouth thing towards the camera. People can't have that. People can't have that. I looked into the camera and opened up my mouth. You need to blur my face.

Or else they're going to have a hayday. And chance make this bigger. Just like magnify it. You didn't open as wide as I did. No, I like really, I like looked up too. I looked up. I don't even know. I might have been making like cute little dough eyes.

They're going to go crazy with that. It was I didn't like have a reaction. Ew, Chance. What? What kind of reaction? Yuck. Chance and I have never had a gay moment. No.

So you know. We've been friends since we were 17 years old. and we've never had a gay moment even once, which is how I know he's really straight. Wow. You met in high school then. College. College.

Freshman year of college. 17. I guess we were 18, huh? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Well, I'm fact checking this. Fact check this.

I guess we would have been 18. We met like first semester of freshman year of college. That's beautiful. I love those friendships. It's gorgeous. Well, it's been tumultuous and mostly negative and unproductive. Sure. Our relationship, but fun at times.

That's great. Yeah. Agreed. Thought Chance would do a bit or something, but I guess we'll just sit with... Well, you know, you kind of covered it, but... But I can talk about you too.

I operate on kind of a speak when spoken to situation. It's for the best. I do that too. It's for the best. I like, yeah. Chance having a microphone is a big responsibility that we trust him with,

but it can get scary quick. Have you always had a microphone? No. No. For a while, I just had to scream. Ah. But in my defense, he loves screaming. It's like one of his big things.

Yeah, that's fun. He's a total. screamer. But no, we've never had a gay moment. I suspect that if we were ever going to, we would have by now. Was there a time when you thought maybe this will be the moment? No, never, never Chance and I, even though Chance has a way gayer personality than me, I always knew he wasn't gay. Do you know what I mean? Like, even when he was doing his little musicals and stuff in college and he was like, it's really important to me that you come, like really gay thing to say. Even then I knew he was like straight. I was like, he just gives a very

straight vibe. It emanates out of him. His straightness would come out in a thumbnail as well. Really? Out from the eyes? From everywhere, really, it seeps. It seeps out from him. It's a it's a bit of a tragedy because he was meant to be a gay guy. He loves musical theater. He's like very sensitive. Very gay stuff about him. But I'm a zero on the Kinsey scale. No, you're not. I took the test. I'm a zero. Really? I thought the whole thing is that it's like no one's a zero, right? No, the whole thing is that it's a scale, I think. I think you can technically be zero.

Oh, because zero is dead middle? Wait, no. What is zero on the scale? Zero is like, you're completely straight. You've never even had a gay thought would never. Oh, that's interesting. I think is the idea of it. I always thought...

It's not real. Oh, it's not real. Chance lied to the test. Chance who, if you... Chance, who is your male celebrity crush? Oh, fuck. Um, man. I...

It changes. That's probably not... Just pick one. Just pick one. Q Jackman is up there for me. That is a very not zero on the Kensi scale answer. Anna is holding herself back from having the biggest laugh of her life right now. Q Jackman?

Yeah, he's handsome. Yeah, that's one of the gayest answers I've ever heard. I saw Hugh Jackman in a play at the Audible Theater. Did you see this play? No. I forget what it was called. It was, they did three plays in, like, in, like, in record. It was like, and all the actors were all the same.

Yeah. It was one of those. And he was so strong. Because sometimes when you see someone in a movie, you're like, sure, but they were doing pushups right before the take. You know what I mean? Yeah. And Hugh Jackman on stage, I was like, oh, no, that's, he is Wolverine. Like, right now he's Wolverine.

He's Jacked? He's playing a professor. Whoa. A college professor. That's really crazy. Yeah. Were you turned on? No, I was just impressed.

Were you out on the Kinsey's? What? Were you out on the Kinsey's? I heard it was fake. It's, I want to know, though. Where would you think you'd be? I don't, well, I mean, I, it's zero to six. Six is like the gay issue you could possibly.

possibly be and zero is your dead. Zero is your. In my opinion. I've got a chance. Oh, one. Nice. I'm not dead. Nice.

That's beautiful. Have you ever had a gay experience? Well, you know, look, I've had straight experiences. How'd it go? Oh, my goodness. I, uh, I did not like it. Did not like it. I did not like it.

Right away, you did not like it? upon reflection? No, it was really kind of refracted back to me by other people when I would talk about it. Because I was like, I got hard and everything. So I was like, I must be into it. But then I was like, no, that's just someone touching you. Like I really, I look back and I'm like, I really did not enjoy that. I was not interested in it at all. And that emotional experience is more important than the physiological response. Because I think the physiological response is not a good indicator. No, physiological response could happen. Yeah, you can get hard over anything. Yeah, I'm hard right now. So was chance. It's crazy. Ever since I did that mouth gesture at the camera

that we're going to blur. Chances had a raging boner. It's crazy. No, everyone who works for me is straight. It's a huge embarrassment and shame of mine. Is that true? 100%. No, well, Anna's by, but she's new. Usually when I say that, Anna hasn't been in the room. Who's your favorite gay person? My favorite gay

person? Yeah, can't say me. Can't say you? I can't pick. You know I can't pick. Come on. I'm begging you. You know I can't pick. I'm begging you to tell me your favorite gay person. I mean, there's, no, I mean, let me tell you some of my favorite gay people. How about that? Oh, my God. Okay.

Aaron Jackson and I used to do a two-person improv show. I love Aaron Jackson. Aaron, friend of the pod. I love Aaron Jackson. Okay, who else you got in there? You got Aaron? You want me to do a full list? I wouldn't know.

I wouldn't get the scope of your favorite days. Here's why I can't do a list. Okay. Because I know I'm going to leave people off. That's scary. That's horrifying. I mean, I'm going to leave someone off very obvious. Yeah.

And it's probably like someone who listens to this podcast. Right. Well, they do. So I can't do it. They do. If they're gay? They better be listening. To be gay and not listen to this podcast is like,

you're against the community. Yeah. You're like rooting on our downfall. So I can't do that. Okay, don't list your favorite gay people. I thought it would be really nice to know. I would just like to know that about you, but maybe we could talk about it off camera.

I can list. I feel so much pressure. Well, Josh Sharp right there. Well, Josh is the most obvious next answer. That's a quick jump from Aaron Jackson, Josh Sharp. Yeah, if we're going proximity. Yeah, love Josh. Josh has been on this show.

Josh has been on, not Aaron. Yeah. Not together either. Well, do you know what happened? I'll actually tell you about this. Josh and I became fast friends because we met and we kind of fell in love and became buddies. And then Aaron, I wanted to fall in love with, but we just never could meet. We were like, we're always missing each other.

And finally, I met Aaron exactly where I was always going to meet Aaron, which is on Fire Island. Beautiful. And that was always how it was going to happen. And we swam together and we had grilled meats together. And now we have a beautiful friendship that's developing quite rapidly. Have you been to P-Town? Of course I've been to P-Town. Because I had, I was talking to Ryan Jones,

another one of my favorite gay people. And he was, and he said that, I think he said, and I'm not going to Fire Island this year, we're going to P-Town. I feel like he phrased us neither or. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you have to choose.

But then I think he might have ended up going to Fire Island also. He probably went to both. But he said, he said P-Town's kind of the town version of Fire Island. P-Town's more of a town. P-Town's more fair-friendly. What if P-Town was more of a beach?

More of a beach. Fire-Rile was more of a town. Fire-Round's kind of a city, if you think about it. It's huge. Metropolis. I had sex in a bathroom in P-Town once. Really? Yeah, it was pretty awesome.

How did it happen? I was touring, and I had two nights in Boston, and a guy that I was seeing was in P-Town, and he was like, you should come out and say hi to all my friends, and I was like, of course, and I went out, and he was in a house of like 12 people, so I was like, we weren't going to fuck at the house. and then we were at this bar.

And I was like, I kind of got to go back to Boston and do this show soon. And then we hooked up in the bathroom. And it was great. Well, bathroom, to me, feel, I don't know if I could get there. Really? I think in a, because I would just be too,

I'd be too, well, worried about, you know. Worry about death. Clevely. I'd be thinking about death the whole fucking time. I'd be thinking about the entire time. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat, the sweater that goes with everything.

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of a website or domain. Wait, I have a question for you. Yeah. What do you think happens when we die in slash, what are your thoughts on God? You believe in God? Please don't lie to me. I wouldn't lie to you.

Nice. I mean, I don't believe in, like, the, like, Abrahamic God. Is that what you mean? You tell me. No, I don't believe in that. I guess I'm probably what you would call just a skeptical agnostic, I guess. Yeah. You believe in God.

I think so. I remember hearing you say this, maybe on this podcast. Is this something you talk about on this podcast? Almost every episode. Really? Yeah, that's how I'm doing with my fear of death. So you share the fear of death. I used to have a really bad fear of death.

It was debilitating. And then I pretty much kicked it. Although I will say lately, I've had some weird small health stuff, nothing to worry about. But I have recently started thinking about death a lot more than I was the last several years. I think basically my relationship with death was like,

first 10 years of my life didn't really think about it, didn't know much about it. 12 years old to like 23, 22. massively fucking terrified of death, depressed by it, scared, thinking of it all the time, like really, really, really fucked up, like fear of death.

And then pretty much from then until recently, didn't think about it much at all and was like, it is going to happen, but let's just not worry about it. It's probably a long time from now. And then crossing over into my 30s, I was like,

I don't feel closer to death necessarily. I just know more people who have died and I get sick randomly. And I'm like, whoa, fuck. That's really scary. What was the way you kicked it when you initially kicked it before it came back?

What was how did you kick it? It's come back in a really healthy way. So I feel like I'm still counting it as being kicked. But it's not so much of fear anymore. It's a concern if that makes sense or like a thought. The way I kicked it was basically by just reframing what I think it is. I think I thought of it as this like horrible ending for a long time that I was like, I don't want this to end because I'm having so much fun.

And that makes me really sad. But now I think of it. I also don't want it to end and I'm having so much fun. But now I think of it as just like a journey. Like it can be a very beautiful thing. Like maybe it'll be, because we don't know, basically what I told myself is, you don't know and neither does anybody else. And so deciding that it's a negative, fucked up, like horrible, scary thing is just as easy as deciding that it's great because no one knows. And so why not just decide that instead?

I love it. I'm not going to push on that at all. Don't push on it. I'm not pushing on it. Don't push on it because I need it. I need it. That's beautiful. Yeah.

I'm not pushing on that at all. Now, do I know that death can be painful? Yes, of course. Am I hoping that mine is not one of those? Yes, of course. Ideally, I die in my sleep when I'm 78. In your sleep? Yeah.

I want to die slowly. I've thought about this. I want to die slowly and I want to be awake. I've thought about this. I want to see it coming. Yeah? And I want it to be an agonizing slow thing. Why agonizing?

Because I was with you for a second. Sorry. It doesn't need, like, the agony isn't an important part of it. You're just assuming. But if the agony, is if being awake means it's agonizing, that's a cost I'm willing to accept. That's what I mean. I don't want it to be agonizing. I would rather be awake and an agony than asleep. I understand you now. Yeah. Why is that? Because I want to process it as it's happening. Yeah.

I don't want it to, I mean, you saw Sopranos. Of course. So spoiler alert at the end. Yeah. Can I say it? Of course. So obviously, we probably, he probably, he dies and it's just, you know, that's it. Probably. That's what I don't. I don't want to be shot. on the back of the head in a diner. Yeah. I don't want that. I don't think you will be. I don't think I will be either.

I very highly doubt you get shot in the back of the head in the diner. I mean, call up Kashi, put on a bet. I think that the thing that reinvigorated my fear of death as a late as an adult.

This is, I was an adult this whole time. I've been an adult. I've been an adult for a little while. Hey, look, there's no way around it. I've been an adult. When I finally became an adult, two years ago.

Yeah. I have, do you know what vasovagal syncope is? Have you heard of this? No. So it's basically you just faint sometimes. So I have vaso vagal syncope. And I was fainting and they didn't know why. And so they did this thing called a tilt table test.

Do you know what that is? No. Well, it's very counterintuitive. They put you on a table and they tilt it. Yeah. That's the test. Fuck. But what happens is if you have this pre-condition,

like your body is the way my body is, at that angle, you pass out. if you don't have the thing I have, you don't pass out. So the test is they put you at that angle and they're just like, now we're going to let you be at that angle for a while. And if you pass out, then we'll know that you have that. And you passed out. And I passed out.

How long did it take? Do you know? I know exactly how long. Because they tilted me up and they were like, okay, so now just sort of like sit here. And first of all, I was like, this is kind of nice. I love this kind of medical test. Yeah. You just like lay here. And then they said, do you feel anything?

And I said, no, I don't think so. and they said, you don't feel any lightheadedness at all. And I went, no, I feel totally. And then I was gone. And then they revived me something like 90 seconds later or something. Revived. Well, clear!

Yeah, fucking charged! I think it was, I think it was a revest. They have to lower the table and do something to, I mean, I had, like, you know, like cables. Stuff. Connected me. Yeah. But I remember, as soon as that happened and I came back,

I just remember thinking, okay, I do think that is what dying feels like minus the return. Yeah. And that's horrifying to me. That I could be talking and all of a sudden. Like, no, I feel. And then it's just. Yeah. I think that.

That's, that's terrifying to me. It totally sucks. Look, I'm not pro-death. And I'm not pushing on your belief at all. You can push on it. I'm not pushing. I'm actually decided in the time you've talked, I'm open to it being pushed on. I don't, because really what it is, I'm curious what you would possibly push on.

Me saying deciding the death is bad or deciding the death is bad or deciding the death, as good is the same thing because no one knows. Feels pretty objectively true to me. So I'm like, how would he push? I'm open to the push. No, I'm not pushing. Push. You have five seconds to push.

Five seconds to push? Push. I don't think that, I just don't think that we know, so I think deciding it's good or bad, neither of those makes sense. But I do think that if it's... Oh, yeah, that's good.

I like this push. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. No, no, that is the push. But I'm not pushing at all. Yeah. No, but I like that as a push. That's fine with me.

I was worried that you would say something that would scare me and I was prepared to cut you off. Just because I live in a very delicate space. I'm not pushing. No, no, no. That's why, like, I don't want to make anyone feel worse. So what do you think? You think it's not good or bad?

You think it's just fact. I think it's just the absence of experience, which is literally not good or bad. It's the absence of, I mean, I think isn't this the, you wanted to talk about Montaigne today, right? Isn't that what you said you wanted me to bring up? Yes, badly. Montaigne.

But when I came in, you said, you have to bring up Montaigne. You must discuss Montaigne. But you have to talk about 16th century writer Montaigne. You really need to talk about Montane. I think Bontaine is the one who said It doesn't make sense to be afraid of death Because you and death will never meet Because if you're here, then death's not

And if death's here, then you're not. And I think that makes sense. Like, I agree with that. Yeah. But it's not as comforting. I think he was comforted by that fact. I don't think I'm comforted by that. Clearly not.

Why? Because I'm terrified of death and think about it 40 times a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, fuck. I guess that's your interpretation. I, yeah, I don't know.

I feel, I hope that something happens afterwards. I think it would be pretty cool if there was some way that our souls or spirits lived on. It is tough to think about this whole thing as pretty much for nothing. Yeah. But say, Lavi, what are you going to do? I would love it. And the moment, the moment you die and wake up, that moment would be the best feeling, imagine. Dying coming back.

Just the moment you're like, I'm dead. And then like, when you wake up, whatever it is, I don't know, whatever it comes after. If just the moment you realize something, it does come out. after, euphoria. Oh my God, unless it's bad. But for a moment, but for a moment, before you realize it's bad, you're like, oh, fuck, I get more.

And then it's bad. And then it's bad, and you're like, well, damn. Fuck, I wish it had been nothing. Yeah, I don't think bad. I don't think bad. That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think bad either. No bad.

Maybe good. Maybe good. Are you getting stressed out talking about this? No, I was thinking about it the whole time anyways. So now that you brought... Yeah, I used to think about it in such a sense. scary way. It is scary to me. It's sad to me. People, and also the world just

does not stop. Yeah. The world does not stop. That's so crazy to me. I actually there was a, the day that Dolly Parton died, obviously a horrific day in my life that will stand in my memory forever. There was a guy right when the news broke. There was a guy coming over to my hotel to hook up.

And he messaged me when he got there. The news broke while he was on the drive over. And he sent me a voice note. It was really sweet, but it really made me laugh. And he was like, I'm outside. I did see the news about Dolly. Like, I know she's really important to you.

If you need me to, like, not come up or if you need me to, like, kill some time so you can process, like, totally cool. And I was like, that is really sweet. And maybe I should need that. But I ultimately do want him to come up and we should have sex now. But I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to have sex with this guy and then go on about my day. I feel like that would make me want to have sex with someone more.

Of course. For Do you just indicated that you, oh, no, but I mean to express. Oh, yeah. You got to do it for Dolly. I got to fuck for Dolly. The day, Dolly part and died I had sex 60. Have gay sex for Dolly. No, but I mean, just having someone show that they know you, they know what you care about.

They're trying to create a space that you feel supported in. Yeah, we have really hot sex. Get up here this moment. It was really hot. And the sex, I think, definitely was better because of it. Wow. Yeah, it was really hot sex. Shout out to that guy.

What up, brother. I know he listens. I hope he listens. He has listened in the past. I hope he's listening to this. I hope he's listening to this. I want him to get his promise. Or he didn't listen to him when he saw that.

the thumbnail. Yeah, well, that is possible, actually. He's one of the people I was thinking of when I said that. He's someone that I think would skip after... Do you see like a noticeable decline? Like, because you can see viewership. Is this a measurable thing where it's like, if Gondelman's on or like I'm on or something, is it like

I, chance we do get a dip with straight guys, don't we? A small one. Chance trying to hedge. But Langston and David's episode is a one. It's, it like beat a bunch of other... Oh, it's beating in the timeline, like the top 10 for the whatever, whatever. What do you mean is a one?

So on YouTube, there's an analytic where you can see, like, one out of 10, where a video is performing compared to the last 10. Yes. Okay, yeah. And it's a six. Got it. That's cool. One is good.

One is a number that excites people like chance. Okay. In that case, congratulations. My quant. That excites my quants. That excites my numbers, man. Yeah. I mean, that's because David and Langston are, I think it's a,

two for thing and I think it's also because I don't know that either of them sorry David Lankston I don't know if this will offend I don't know that either of them are thumbnail straight oh I see what you're saying like if you know that they're straight and they both have beautiful wives and etc but I don't know if they're thumbnail straight actually they might be thumbnail straight you're sure that I'm thumbnail straight you might be thumbnail straight yeah congratulations by the way a lot of people would kill a lot of gay guys would kill to be thumbnail straight Gay guys want to be... Gay guys want to be straight presenting more than they want almost anything.

Really? They accuse me of it all the time just because I like football and dress like shit. That's not me trying to be straight. That's just my reality. Like, oh, so we're mask fishing? I'm like, no, I'm just a little boring in from Missouri. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Funny, I don't know that.

Yeah, but I think you might have thumbnail straight. And that can be a huge honor in many communities. I wouldn't consider it or not. I feel neutral on that. No, yeah. can understand why you wouldn't consider an honor. You're a good guy. You're a good guy. Thanks, Caleb. That's not the kind of thing you'd get excited about. Oh, these are the thumbnails? See, they both come off a little fruity in that thumbnail. You know who looks thumbnail straight is

Trixie Mattel. Wait, Trixie Mattel. This is, wait, hold on. Try to do it. Use the same color shirt too. Please capture that for the thumbnail. Please capture that for the thumbnail. I want to get, I want to get Trixie's overflow. Yeah. Someone's like, I miss the Trixie Mattel up. And then they're just scrolling through and quickly see that that must be that one. Trixie. Yeah. Fuck. That is so fucking funny.

Wait, what is so true to you? Oh, my show true. Yeah. My so true is. And the fact that you have one puts you in a league of your own, by the way. Really? No one respects this show. No one comes on here prepared for anything.

That's so funny. I really agonized over this, which is going to make it even funier when the one I say is not that exciting. I came up with several because I wasn't sure. I've listened to a lot, but not all. Yeah. And I was like, well, what if I say one that's already been said? Oh, that's why. So I have won this kind of a basic.

This is a basic so true. Tell me. But if someone's already said it, you got to say, move on, and I'll give you the other one. I doubt that I would remember, but if I do, I'll tell you. Really? Well, if anyone remembers. They won't. Okay.

What's so true to me, they might. No, they won't. What's so true to me is that everyone should call out sick if they're even a little sick forever. Stop showing up if you're sick at all. Ideally, yes. I think it's a great idea. Ideally, yes. I think it's a beautiful idea.

Okay. People will abuse. I, that's, I, that's a cost I'd rather bear than the cost of them showing up sick. Really? What, what, you, of course. What, what, what is the scenario where you would, wait, wait, push. You want, you, now, now you're pushing. No, I'm just listening.

I love being around people. Staying home to me is the worst thing that ever happens to me. Really? Staying home is a punishment from the devil to me. So, so, so, so you go places when you're sick then. No. I would never, I would never, that's fucked up. I just think that when people walk into the office and heroism,

leader Claire, I'm sick, but I came in anyways. That's, like, that's not the flex you think it is. I'm thinking of like, I'm thinking of like social situations. You know, oh my God, is social situations? If I like... So the specific language call in is something I should have tuned into. And you're saying specifically work. Oh, do not go to work.

I also... Oh, fuck that job. Stay home. I also believe in social situations. Oh. You lost me again. I know. And I actually, the funny thing is I could have had a win.

Yeah. And I was like, no, no, no. You were about to really have me. No, no. You think I should never go to a social situation if I'm a little bit sick. I think if you're a little bit sick, just take the O. I think that it's like I've had the experience of hugging someone and then them saying, I'm a little sick.

And I'm like, why did we just hug them? I think at bare minimum, if you're feeling a little sick. What are you a Victorian child? You can't hug someone who's a little sick? What do you have? I just think that you're putting everyone at risk. At risk? I'm having a sniffle?

Yes. If you have like if you're immunocompromise, like if you told me that you were immunocompromised, and then I wouldn't come around you sick, obviously. But I'm like, the issue I have with this is, what is the line? A tiny sniffle, a little scratch in the throat? What are we talking about? I think that's obviously a great question. Yeah, thank you.

And we all have to find our own line. My line is... Well, we're already, we're finding our own line. Huh? We're already finding our own line. Right. And I'm advocating for the adoption of mine. I understand.

Right, okay. So you want your line to be the thing. I think it is if you are, obviously if you have a fever or something, that's just like hard, no. I'll agree with you on that. If you have a fever, if you have a fever, if you're coughing up blood, I think you stay home.

Yeah. If you're bleeding out of your eyes, I think you stay home. Yeah, if any of your appendages are falling off. I would say stay home in that case. Stay home, yeah. No, I think, but I also think that you just know, like, you know when you're getting a little,

if you're, like, getting sick and you're like, this is going to be bad, like tomorrow, stay home. You don't always know, though. I think you, well. So let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, because I'm not against your rule.

I'm really interested in learning about your culture in your view of the world. Let me ask you this. It's a Tuesday night. You're meant to go to a really fun hang out with a bunch of friends you haven't seen in a long time and probably won't get to see anytime soon. Sure.

Okay. That afternoon, you go for a run and it's in the park and you feel like there's a lot of like pollen and stuff in the air. You get home. But no, no, you don't know. You don't know if this is allergies or if tomorrow I'm going to wake up

and realize that I'm actually getting sick. Do you go out that night or no? Okay, so this is a really good question. because one of my best friends, Steve Walteen, has horrible allergies and constantly is sniffling and has to say to me, it's allergies because he knows that he knows my... Hug me. Stop being weird. Yeah. He keeps hugging me. But I think allergies are definitely, you know, I'm just going to own it. Allergies are the trickiest part of adopting. Of your idea. Yeah. It definitely is the hardest part. So what do you do? So say that I had that day. Sure. I'm not sure if I got a little messed up from my run in the the park that I'm definitely doing, or if I'm going to wake up pretty sick tomorrow.

What do you have me do? Do I get to go out? What I'm doing is airing on the side of caution. You're staying in? I'm saying in. I wouldn't. I know you would. For a guy who fears death, you're not acting like today might be the last one. But I'm acting like I don't want to speed up the death of my... Yeah, I guess if you're hanging out with a bunch of people who would die from getting a sniffle. All of my friends are... Yeah. I don't know, man. I hear you and I get it. And I'm like, maybe you wear a mask to the hang or whatever. But at that point, you're not having fun. They're not having fun.

You're like, every time you talk, they're like, what? I want to go. I want to go. And it's probably from the park. A very fun thing would be is if you were sick right now. And this whole time, you're just trying to do. You're actually catching me one of the only days this year. I'm not sick.

Well, last time I saw you, you were sick. What? You had, um, well, I don't want to blow up your spot. Did I have strep? Yeah. Oh, I've had strep a million times. Oh, I didn't want it to be like, I'm biwating hip- if I saw you, though.

No, I know. You said that. Yeah. Every time I get strapped, I stay home until I'm uncontagious because I'm a good guy and I follow your rules. But no, I have gotten strapped so many times this year that I have to get a tonsillectomy later this month. You have to get a tonsillectomy. You have my tonsil out. Doctor said I have the biggest tonsils he's ever seen. Kind of cool. He was not excited to tell me. The biggest he's really concerned.

He was like, you have the biggest tonsils I have seen. Wow. That is kind of cool. How big are they? I don't know how big should they be. I can't show you after what I did earlier on camera, but I'll show you later. I think you showed everyone. I'm like, how are they?

Yeah, no, I'll show you later. How big are they supposed to be? Not as big as mine are. Mine touch. Mine like collide in the middle. Wow. They're called kissing tonsils. Oh, so are you going to feel a physical difference once they're gone?

Sure I am. A big one. I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a couple weeks. This is like ice cream only situation. Well, I've learned, so that was supposed to be the promise was that you're getting allowed to eat ice cream all the time, but now I've learned you're not really supposed to do that because dairy creates a film in the back of the throat? What are you supposed to do? You're supposed to drink

lukewarm broth and eat mashed potatoes. Oh, that's kind of like ice cream. Not a lot. And it's going to be horrible. I literally told my therapist today, I was, I'm like dreading it because I don't think I should ever have to be in pain. That is, you know, that's horrifying. I'm sorry. It's horrible. But I feel really lucky to. Is this your first surgery? Second. Second. I had knee surgery. From football in high school. Oh, repair or replace? the cartilage in my knee wore off and my bones were snapping off against each other on the end

so they put in fake cartilage kind of cool. Damn. You can still feel my knee click I'll show you later. Wow. It's kind of cool. That's cool.

But yeah, I'm scared of my tonsillectomy. My doctor made it. You know what happened? The surgeon, he's really fucking cool for doing this. I basically found this surgeon who is really highly rated in Kansas City and I was like,

hey, I called and I was like what my mom called because she knew the nurse. And then I got me the number and then I called. And I said, hey, I have like a crazy work life. I need the surgery to be this specific day. Like it has to be this day so that I can not cancel anything, basically,

except for this one indie movie I was going to do. I'm really sad about. But he was like, okay, we'll do it. We can do it then. So he like is doing it on this day for me. So I really like him going into our consultation appointment. Then I'm in there and I go, is it going to be as bad as everyone says? And he goes, no.

Like everyone blows it way out of proportion. It is a tough surgery, but like, it's going to be totally fine. You won't even, I told him I don't want to take oxy because I'm really scared of pills. Yeah. And he was like, you won't need to, like, we'll send you home with some in case. But like, you're going to be fine on like Advil and stuff. And I was like, cool, cool, cool. He left the room.

I turned to the nurse. I go, he was lying to me, wasn't he? It's really bad. She, like, shuts the door. She goes, it's pretty bad. Also, never let that nurse out. That is, what a, what a beautiful person to have in your life. Honest, I love her.

I love her. The close the door. Yeah. It's pretty tough. Yeah. She's like, and then she said everything that he said to. She was like, she said everything that he said, too. she was like, we put stem cells in now in the site, and that helps a lot.

Like, she's like, it's gotten way better, but you're going to have a tough time. And I was like, okay, sounds good, girl. Did you, did you, well, I guess, wait, well, your high school surgery was a long time ago. Do you remember how bad that was? That, I didn't take pain pills for that either. That was pretty bad, but I don't think it was so, so, so, I was 15. I felt, I remember. Bodies just bounce.

One time I fell on it. Oh. After surgery. I was like trying to hop. up the stairs to go get water or something. And I fell directly on my knee that I had had surgery on. And I don't think I've ever, that's probably the most pain I've ever been in my entire life.

It was really, really, really bad. And then my mom was like, why the fuck didn't you ask me to bring you water? We might have to take you back to the hospital now. And I was like, I don't know. Because you want to be my own water. You want to be independent. I totally get it. Hello?

I remember crying after, because I had a shoulder, um, tear. Actually, my surgeon, this is one of my favorite things that doctors ever told. me. But he was like, he was like, so it's, uh, there's, you know, we need to do surgery to repair it. Um, he said, but what we're, what we're going to do? And he was like, so he was like, so what we could do is replace,

is, um, like, reconnect the laborer's saying. He's like, or we could do a laparoscopic thing where we do like three holes and then we move the tendon of your bicep down. And I was like, oh. He's like, it's called a biceptenidesis. And I was like, oh, okay. Uh, yeah, I guess we could do that. He's like, I think it's a lot better. I was like, oh, okay. And he went, actually, I kind of pioneered

procedure. And I was like, let's go. Well, my reaction was, I love that. I love that. But yes,

you want the person who made it to like do it. You're like, you're going to do the best job. But I was like, how many of you done? Like am I like, am I like the first person? You're like, finally.

Like this, I think it could be way better. Yeah. Obviously it's fine. Damn. Falls off. But yeah, obviously it's fine.

My guy, I was hoping, my guy, I asked him, like, there's different kinds of tonsillectomies you can get. And I tried at every stage

to get him to agree to the one that I thought was going to be less pain. And he was like, he was like, you don't know what you're talking about. You should. And you have the largest tonsils. He was like, your tonsils are huge. They need to come entirely out. I was like, what about the kind where you leave a little bit in?

So he goes, it's going to be the same amount of pain. And if I leave them and they can grow back and then you'll come back and do it again. And I said, what are the chances that grows back? And he goes, Caleb? He goes, let's take him out. I'm going to cut you right. I'll cut you off right there. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, shout out to him, I guess. Damn, that's crazy. How many surgeries have you had? just the one? I had appendicitis also when I was in college. What?

Yeah. I was working at a job. That's fucking crazy. That shit can kill you. Yeah, I can't. Mine hadn't burst, though. When it bursts is when it gets real bad. But mine was, it was huge.

But the way I found out was I was working at a, I was working at a company moving cabinets out of apartments. And I was like, just really, I was like, man, I'm so hungry. And so then I went and got a bagel and I ate the bagel. I was like, damn, I'm still hungry. I just feel so hungry. and that happened like three times so I ate like four bagels

and it turned out the feeling of hunger that I it was my appendix said gotten huge. Yeah, that's really interesting. If that, if we're... No, it's not. No, it is because I'm sitting here going

if we're counting on me to know that something's wrong with me by how often I eat something and I'm still hungry, we're never finding. That's never going to be a thing. I'm going to have the four bagels and be like, I guess it's a five bagel day. I don't know.

We're never going to get to the bottom of what's going on in my stomach. Leave the bottom. I heard a flight pilot recently. It was like a thing on Instagram. He had to like turn the flight back because his appendix burst while he was in the air. He was in like over that you can hear him being like,

we're turning back for a medical emergency. The person with the medical emergency is me. I'll get us to the gate. And then I need to go, I think immediately to the hospital. He's like in so much pain. Then you can hear it in his voice and I was listening to this. And I was listening to this and I was like, could you fucking imagine flying a plane and being like,

I think I'm dying right now. Wait, isn't that why you have a co-pilot? Sure, the passengers would have been fine, but I'm like, he had to be so scared. That would have been, oh my God. Yeah, you have to... I guess that's like what, like, parent energy, where it's like,

this is an emergency, but I'm still the adult in the room. I need to put on a set... You know, it's like the house is burning down. Yeah. What we're going to do is walk through that door. Yeah, exactly, yeah. This is my role. Yeah.

I cannot let this slip for a second. My authority is real. Don't let me be pilot. No. If I haven't, if my opinion is pursed, but I'm a pilot, I'm not going out alone. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But I'm not a pilot. It's okay. It's okay. But I wouldn't do that. Do you know I think I've listened to three podcast episodes in my life?

I cannot fathom listening to a podcast. I don't know why people do it. Thank you guys. I don't know why they do it. Oh, interesting. I don't, I mean, I do listen to podcasts, but I'm curious. Maybe that's why you're so good at it because you're not steeped in it? I don't know. I don't know if I really am good at it. I'm good at talking. Like, I can talk forever.

But that's what it is. I can sit here with you all day. That's the job. I guess, but I don't know how often it gets that, well, I really let myself off the hook by saying that this isn't a comedy show. So if we ever have an episode where I'm not being funny at all, I go, well, I was never supposed to be.

That's my little trick for myself. That's a great hack. I mean, we talked about death. I mean, we talked about tilt table tests. So this is not a comedy. It's all worth it. It's all worth it. I wanted to hear about the tilt table.

I hate that you have that thing. Will they cure it or no? Yes, and curable. You're gonna pass out a bunch? That would be such a fun. If this episode ended with me passing out, that would just be a nice, like, if it was like life as a herald,

like I just pass out. Yeah. So you just pass out for the rest of your life? They can't do anything after they put you on the table? I drink salt every day and stuff. Like, I'm like mitigating, but I could pass out it. You drink salt?

What does that do? How so? What do you mean? You like put it in water and throw it back? Yeah, drink it down. Really? You can't just get it from food or something? You can.

Actually, my doctor said, you can salt your food as much as you want. You can't have too much. Wow. Isn't that beautiful? That's an awesome thing to hear. Yeah. A different doctor told me,

I'd like to go to that doctor. No, it was great. He's like, in like one of the bathrooms at Penn Station. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. He just got a third stall. He's great.

Tap three times. Super nice. He doesn't take insurance, but it's cheap. I went to an E&T in New York about my tonsils, before I found this guy in Kin City. And when I went, she was like,

the building was ugly and dirty. And the hot, sorry, Michelle did find this person for me. And I don't know where she found them. I was like, hey, can you please find me an E&T? Like, I need to go in. She found this place. She sent me to somewhere that was like,

it was really gross. And it was in a not a part of town that I really wanted to be at a doctor. And it just was like, the building didn't make any sense. And no one, like, there was no door person. The elevator was disgusting. There was like, Amazon coat rack in the lobby that was like so broken that I was like, why wouldn't they just take it down?

Yeah. The whole thing was scary. And then I got into her like disgusting little office. And she looked at my tonsils for two seconds. She was like, I can take those out for you. When do you want to do it? And the way she said it, I was like, I can never get surgery from this person. Like it was really scary.

I can do her. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, you want those things out? Like I got this. It was scary, dude. Wow. And the office was gross and weird.

And they were like tumbleweeds and shit, basically. That is New York. Doctors offices are different. We're both from the Midwest. Do you consider Kansas City the Midwest? Sure do. Midwest doctors are, like, the offices themselves, they just feel different. You go to New York, and it is like, this is a residential apartment building.

I'm going up to, like, the ninth floor and then, like, falling down the stairs, and that's the, and it's like an NYU, like, off-site location. Yeah. Do you want to hear the scariest thing a doctor ever told me? I think so. Okay, so I went to a cardiologist, and I said, because I have, there's a history. of sudden cardiac deaths in my family. And I was like, you know what?

I'm getting, like, not old, but like, I'm getting older. Like, let's just preempt everything. Yeah. And so I went to this cardiologist, and I, and I, we talked about things he could do. And then he said, well, let me ask you this. What are you worried about? And I said, this is going to shock you. I said, dying suddenly.

And he said, dying suddenly. And I said, yeah. And he went, well, you don't need to worry about that. And I was like, oh, okay. And then he said, you're just returning to him. And I was like, oh. That's not what you want your heart doctor to feel about. I was like, this is, I was like, for the purpose of this experience, let's say that's something I am worried about.

Right. And he was like, okay. And then we kept talking for a little while. You're just returning to him. He did end up recommending a book to me that has Jesus in the title. I don't remember what he said next, but it made me feel like I had to ask the question, do you believe in evolution? And I don't remember what he said, but that was what I felt like I had to say next. Yeah.

And his answer was, I believe in my. microevolution. You can't be my heart doctor. That was the last time I saw it. That's fucking crazy. A really sad thing is like, I think fully super sweet guy had a great time talking to him. Yeah. Like no shade to him if he's listening.

He listened. By the way, you ask me if I worry about like things I say, but this is what I'm going to worry about. Is that he's going to hear this and be like, I thought we had a really nice connection. No, we can totally be like friendly, but you can't be my heart doctor. That was exactly right. If you're interested in returning me to him. And it was the same. There was the same doctor's office when I came in.

The woman at the front desk said, what sign are you? And I said, Pisces, and she said, I thought so. And I was like, I don't know, like, everyone. I thought I did that math, right? March, got it.

I was like, everyone here, like, all of these things are totally cool beliefs to have. I don't want my medical professionals to be thinking about my astrological sign or, like, the Christian afterlife. Like, I just like, in this setting, we're going to go ahead and be like, keep it to yourself.

In this house, we believe science. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this house we hate when your heart stops. We don't care about your astrological sign. And all, but again, very lovely people. No problem with them as people. I think they should all have their licenses taken away. That is so scary.

To say you're going to return to him. Return to him. And that's also like sort of like euphemistically. Because like you return to him, I had to be like, I think I know what that means, but it can't be that. Sure. And then he had to clarify.

That's fucking. crazy. Horrifying. You want to play a game? Oh, I love the game. Okay. I like that. You're going to play the game.

Who, what's the percentage of success, though? It's low, right? Not high. Yeah. Not high. You put these together? You know, it's interesting. Chance told me there's a guy,

well, I don't know that it's a guy. Chance told me there's a person on, uh, Reddit who does, like, analysis of all the so truths. Like how many times a person's gotten seven right? Or like, how many times the question's been asked about the ocean? Or like, they run like data about the so true.

Isn't that interesting? Yes. I like that person. Shout out to them, whoever they are. You'll never see me on there, but I really love that you're doing that work out there. You ready? Yeah. I'm going to read you 15 statements.

You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars. Really? Rachel Ray was born in Ireland. Incorrect. False, New York. The Rose Bowl opened in 19. I'm sorry.

I said incorrect. Obviously, this is true false. That was insane. It's okay. I was with it the whole time. Can we say false. There you go. And it was false.

It was New York. The Rose Bowl opened in 1922. False. True. Francis motto is Liberty, Equality, fraternity. True. True. The Simpsons has run for 41 seasons.

True. False, 37. Come on. Madison West High School's mascot is Reggie the Regent. Who? Madison West High School's mascot is Reggie the Regent. Oh, true. True.

Scorpions can hold their breath for... Everybody always likes that. Play, by high school. Scorpions can hold their breath for six days. False. True. What? There are no Olive Garden Rest.

in India. False. Incorrect. False. There's one. The main character in the book, Holes' name is Stanley. False. True. Really? Stanley Yel-Nats. Oh. Yel-Nuts? Yel-Nuts. Stanley backwards. Have you seen the movie? No. All right. I thought you said his name is Stanley. Y'L.Nuts.

Close. The moon is gradually drifting closer to the earth. False. It's drifting further. Lawrence University Athletics compete in the NCAA's Division 2. False. False. False. D3. The capital of Montana is Helena. False.

True. Damn it. It's never the most famous one. The capital's never the most famous place. It's one of the ones you don't think about. The chemical symbol for silver is SV. False. False.

It's AG. Emus are native to South America. False. False. Australia. The Blackberry curve is older than the Blackberry Pearl. True. False.

I thought so. One more. Bay Book Company moved from its original location in 2008. True. True. False 2010. Oh, come on. You did this? I did. How do you do? Eight. Oh. But I just,

but some of those were kind of amazing. He's fucked up. He's a bad guy. He's a bad guy. He tries to... I see, when you said Elliott Bay moved, I just knew they moved. And then you said the year. I'd already answered. That was that was on me. The, yeah, the cockiness really. That's a lesson to be learned. That is actually, honestly. It is.

Something to take from that. Slow down. was doing like, relax. Yeah. We're never going to die. What? We'll live forever. Wow, that's awesome.

You ever think about that? That you might live forever? I don't think about that. Oh, no, I don't think. I don't think I would. I thought, I thought there's a chance

I could be the first guy. You think you might be. I thought there's a chance on the first guy. I remember the year they were like, the person who's going to live to 200 has already been born. I don't think that's me. I think I either, I think I either,

yeah, I don't even want to say that. But I think what I can tell you is if there's a guy alive right now who might live forever, I think there's a chance it's me. But have you seen the Netflix stock on Infinity? No. Oh, I actually do believe it's up your alley for what's worth.

What happens? What happens? Well, just as, I mean, re the moon question, everything is moving so away, and faster. So eventually there will be a time when not only is everything so spread out and cold and desolate, even if you traveled at close to the speed of light, you could literally never reach anything else

because it's so far away and moving fast. faster away. Sounds good. This was a lot of fun. We got to end now. True. True. True. Thanks for doing it. Do you want to tell people where they can find you?

Look, you can, I'm at Asher Perlman on social media. True. And that's true. And I have a podcast, but also with Michael and Asher. True. True. Correct. True. And I have two books if you want to pick up my books. True.

True. Hell yeah, brother. Appreciate you.