So True with Caleb Hearon - Confronting a Gay Historian

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Welcome! This week’s guest is the incredible Stuart Hinds! Stuart and Caleb talk the history of queer people in the midwest, generational differences in dating, Stuart not having a phone of any kind, and much more! Support the Gay and Lesbian Archive of Mid-America here! https://securelb.imodules.com/s/1236/lg24/form.aspx?sid=1236&gid=1&pgid=5405&cid=10881 Join our Patreon for an exclusive post-episode chat with Stuart and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloudGrab an Angry Orchard Cider today. Don’t Get Angry. Get Orchard. Please Drink Responsibly. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to www.rocketmoney.com/SOTRUE today. Transform your living space today with Cozey. Visit www.Cozey.com, the home of possibilities, made easy. Get up to 55% off at www.Babbel.com/SOTRUE There’s no replacement for human connection. Better with people. Better with Alma. Visit www.helloalma.com/SOTRUE to get started and schedule a free consultation today. About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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including United, NSCigna, and more. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com slash sotry to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's helloalma.com slash sotruy. Get over there, y'all. consultation today. That's hello. ALMA.com slash S O T R U E. Get over there y'all. And then you guys linked up. Yep. And it's been 34 years. Yeah. That's crazy. Does that feel crazy to you? It does feel crazy, you know, and it's just like any relationship you, you, it's work and you work through stuff and then you reach a point where as we say it's it's it's too much work to train a new one. So

Well, you just ride with it Here we are here we are hi Here we are. Hi. At last. Hello, how are you? I'm good. I've been trying to get you to do this for so long. I know. I said, would you ever fly to LA?

You said, not really. Not a flyer. How you doing? I'm doing okay. How are you doing? I'm okay. I'm a little mad at you because you haven't invited me to see your garden yet this season and I haven't.

It's an open invitation. Oh. See. That's where I fucked up. Oh see. That's where I fucked up. That's where I messed up. Well and you you were here and gone and here and gone so yeah as you can. Yeah. You're welcome. This is the you're you're kind of launching the classic criticism of me which is you're not here what are you talking about? Precisely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the last time I saw you, you told me that you had gone on a road trip to southern Missouri, and you had avoided the interstates. Yes.

I went to Cape Girardeau, which is, of course, on the other side of the state. And I'll do anything to avoid I-70 especially. And it took, it was eight hours one way and nine hours back. Yeah, because you basically took local streets. Right, it took the 40 mile an hour curvy, windy, hilly roads, but it was beautiful for the first three hours. And then by that point you're like, I really want to get home.

Yeah, but not bad enough to go over to I-70. No. No. No. And I love that about you. Get out of here. You see this fly. I love that about you.

Well, we should tell people how we met. Yes. We met because Holmes and I were researching a TV show that we were writing for Hulu. They didn't make it. Shout out to Hulu. But we that we were writing for Hulu. They didn't make it. Shout out to Hulu. But we were making a show for Hulu, and we were writing these two characters that were older

lesbians in Kansas City. And we were like, oh, man, we really want to get this right. I wonder what kind of places they would have hung out at. We were thinking about doing some flashback, like bottle episodes of their life or whatever. So I cold emailed you and was like, hey, could we come down to the university because you run the queer archive of,

is it gay and lesbian archive of mid America? Yes. Did I get it? Very good. Yes. Let's go. And you founded it. Yeah.

And run it. Co-founded it, yeah. At UMKC. Yeah. And I cold emailed you and was like, hey, you don't know me, but I'm writing this TV show and I live in town and could we come and get a tour of the archive and could you tell us some stuff? And did you like that or were you annoyed by that?

Oh, no, that was fine. It's like, okay, I wonder what this is about and if it's going to go anywhere. And because I get emails with some frequency and you just never know what they're going to turn into and then you all showed up, it was you and Holmes and... One of our producers and our showrunners, so Deirdre and Lady J. Lady J. And four hours later, we were still talking. Yeah, well I think you didn't like us

when we first showed up. Well I didn't know what to expect. I think you didn't like us, because when I feel like when we came in, and you can tell me didn't like us because when I feel like when we came in and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like when we came in there was a little bit of a wall. Well again, you never know. Yeah. Especially with a cold email or a cold contact. You just never know how serious people are and what their work is gonna evolve into. And so I'm always a little formal at the beginning

and then as you guys were talking and exploring, I could see, it's like, okay, this is the real deal. These guys are serious about it. They really wanna know stuff and they really are doing what they say they're gonna do. So, yeah. So yeah. When we came in, it was more like you were giving us like

work, Stuart, you were like, always, you're always start there. Yeah. And then an hour and a half later, you're like, girl. I was like, all right, we got it. We got it. And then we became friends. And now we pretty much have coffee or something every time I'm in town. Yeah. Yeah. That's, am I the, am I, okay, how many friends are you making through the archive? Like where do I rank in the rankings?

It's very atypical for me to maintain a sort of longer term relationship with somebody who comes in simply because their projects are finite and they're not that interested. And so yeah, I mean, we have coffee or whatever every time you're in town and I always look forward to it. It was very diplomatic. You didn't say I was number one, but I felt it. I felt it.

I felt it in your heart. Way up there. There we go. Yes. So, okay, you have like a billion stories that I think are so interesting. I'm trying to give, usually we don't like introduce our guests because they're, you know, a comedian or something. I'm like boring. We know what a comedian is. But you have such an interesting job because you run the archive and you also teach. What do you, what classes are you teaching? I teach a queer American history class and I've been teaching it for about 10 years and the last two or three years I taught it over at the Kansas City Art

Institute. And this year with our different political environment, I haven't been able to get any traction at my school. And so I can't get anybody to pay me to teach it. And the paying is not a big deal, but I can't get them to offer it for credit. Right. I guess I should say. And so this fall, I'm going to teach it for free. I'm just going to teach it on Sunday afternoons, open it up to the public and let the students who I've kind of been promising for the past couple years

that this class is coming, let them know so that they can participate as well. What is the hesitation, what's changed? Because you used to teach it for credit there, didn't you? Yes, but it was kind of buried because it was a gen ed class. Everybody's paranoid, everybody's paranoid about the DEI and the language that the AI is looking for. So they're not really interested in offering a queer American history class. Yeah. So it's a weird time. And so I just, I just, I, cause these kids are so hungry for it. And I want to give them what they're hungry for.

And it's a way to perpetuate the history they're trying to erase. Come learn the history they're trying to erase. Yeah. Well I think that's, you and I have talked a little bit about this privately, but I think, you know, there's not much good that comes out of times like this where like, you know, authoritarian, like fascism is surging globally, by the way, not just us. Right.

But one of the maybe silver linings that comes out of it is I do think people with marginalized identities, particularly, not particularly, but as we know more intimately, queer people, do get really involved and passionate and start to look at the past and start to connect more. I think we almost have like an oppositional, when things are good, it felt like right after gay marriage

got legalized, a bunch of queer people went, all right, we're done. I'm tapping out. Yeah, exactly. And as things turn more oppressive, and you see this repeated over and over in the history of this community, as things get more oppressive, then you start to see a resurgence, a pushback

against that oppression. And one of the important things about teaching the history is that you need to learn from people's successes and people's mistakes, activist successes and activist mistakes. And so you can look back and see what worked, when times were even worse, and what didn't work and what you can adapt to your current situation. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you, I mean, I assume you probably probably because you're talking to college students, I assume there's a certain level of like, Dumerism or nihilism about the moment that we're in. I mean, what do you think about the the moment that we're in and political hope? And you know, it has been really really surprising to me because I engage with a lot of queer students on different levels and I just thought after the beginning of this year that our trans kids especially would just spiral and just you know and I've anticipated being able to see it in their in their behavior and their demeanor it has been the exact opposite really they're just chugging along they're just doing their thing they're just moving forward

been the exact opposite. They're just chugging along, they're just doing their thing, they're just moving forward. It's been really, really surprising to me, and I'm really kind of astounded, because they have that fortitude to just kind of shrug it off and say to themselves, I'm presuming that I'm just gonna be who I am. At this point, existence is resistance.

And so just exist and continue and things will change. Yeah. Yeah. Well you you have talked to me a little bit about like you've seen it be really bad for us and then pretty good for us and then really bad for us. Yeah. And it's kind of this, can you talk a little bit about that like roller coaster ride? it's it's it's a pendulum, you know and the pendulum swings in the wrong direction and things get really bad and Because in part because of the resist the resistance to that oppression the pendulum starts to move back in the other direction and things get really good and

the pension starts to move back in the other direction and things get really good and Looking at the looking at the history you you you can tell you can see it and you can see the the searches of the activism that we were talking about Bubble up as as things get Get challenging. Yeah When did when did you come out? Oh Lord. Was it 2013? In my head, it was third grade. I knew when I was in third grade. And then... Now how'd you know in third grade? Because same. That was about the time that I figured it out as well. I just knew that I

preferred the company of boys. Yeah, shout out by the way. I know that's right. You know? Yeah. For me, I'll mention right around that time, I don't know why kids do this, what is wrong with kids. I don't know if you guys were doing this, but they would have marriages on the playground. People would get married. They'd be like, we're going to the tree for like, Caitlin and Derek are going to get married today. It's not like the school was doing it. It's like the kids themselves, like a sort of heteronormative Lord of the Flies situation. We're like, we're doing, did y'all have this?

Yes. We were doing this. And I remember that I was meant to get married to a girl. And I was like, I don't see it. I was like, I'm kind of rocking with Tyler in a bigger way than that. And I just remember being like that there's something off about that. Everyone else seems very keen on this and I'm not rocking with it at all.

Yeah. But third grade, you knew you were just kind of. Yeah. And then came out to some close friends in high school. And that would have been 1978. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. And how did that go. Yeah. Let's go. And how did that go?

It went fine. The one date I ever went on with a girl, she was a very good friend. And of course then, and it wasn't because of me, but she eventually came out as lesbian. I know that's right. Yeah. How was the date?

I imagine she had a great time. It was fine. Girls love going out with gay guys. I think we went to a movie and then we might have gone to dinner and I took her home. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly don't remember.

A gentleman. Yeah, of course. Of course. So then, okay, so you come out to some friends and then you weren't in Kansas City yet at this time, right? No, I was in Springfield, Missouri. Yeah, you were down in southern Missouri, where I went to college.

So then when did you move to Kansas City? I moved to Kansas City to go to school at UMKC in 1980. 1980. And then, bounced back and forth a little bit, I went to SMS, or now Missouri State, for a year, and then came back and forth a little bit. I went to SMS or now Missouri State for a year and then came back up here and I've been here since the mid 80s, since 85. Yeah. Yeah. What was what was your entry into the what was your entry into the queer scene like? Like how did you get involved with? So in Springfield, down on the square, there was a gay bar called The Galaxy.

Come on. And, lord, I was 19. And I went, I was terrified, but I really wanted to go to a bar. And so I went on like a Tuesday night. And of course no one was there. So I walk in and it's a long bar on the left, at the end of which was the dance floor. And there were rows of tables,

a row of tables opposite the bar. And so I just sat at a table, just sat there and kind of looked around. And this young man came up and said, do you always come to bars and not drink? And so he bought me a drink and we sat and talked. Okay, let's go. Game, I love that.

So that was my introduction to the world of bars. But prior to that, the sort of public cruising area was Phelps Grove Park. And of course you didn't have to be of age to drive around Phelps Grove Park. Right. And I was much younger than 19. Yeah. Let's just say I was about 16 when I put two and two together. Yeah. And had access to a car. Yeah.

This is your big entry. At that point, this is the big entry point into the queer scene. Yeah. Such as it was in Springfield, Missouri in 1978. Yeah. Yeah. Why wasn't that? It feels like that was kind of the norm, right? It was like, well, I don't think you're meeting friends at the cruising park. Were you, was there anyone? Did you feel like there was a culture at the cruising spots of like, yeah, you weren't like staying in touch with anybody? Uh, no, it was very

short term. Okay. What I thought. Yeah. Yeah. But the gay bars, I mean, the gay bars had to have been way different back then because there were no, it was very short term. OK, what I thought, yeah. But the gay bars, I mean, the gay bars had to have been way different back then, because there were no, it wasn't like now, where it's like, I feel like they're so almost phased out. Well, and the bars in Springfield, I mean, there was the one bar, right? And then moved up here. And just, it was a different kind of experience because the crowd

was it was it was a much bigger community and there were just more opportunities there were there was more than one bar. Yeah. And I mean there were niche bars and so it was it was a different kind of experience. Yeah. But it was the only the only place to potentially meet longer term kinds of potentially longer term relationships. Of course, there were cruising spots up here as well. The Liberty Memorial and the Plaza and some other places. But the bars were where you were trolling for a husband, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when I was 17, 16, 17, we were on Craigslist and Grindr. That's where we were. That's where we were cruising. Interesting.

So it was all digital by then. Right. I would never in a million years when I was a teenager, if you told me to show up to a park to meet men, I'd have been like, okay. Well, and quite honestly, you didn't necessarily even have to go to a park. If you're walking down the street and you happen to catch someone's eye in the right way, you find yourself 10, 15 minutes later at their home.

Come on, brother. Come on, brother. It was a long time ago and it was a very different era. Yeah, I mean that's just how easy it was. Of course there was a sense of danger about it all because you were making yourself very vulnerable and a sense of, but also a sense of a certain level of trust with the other person. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so you're hoping to catch the eye in the right way. I mean, that's classic, I know that. But like, were there any other tells? Like, how did you know a gay guy? How would you spot a gay guy? Just the way they walk and talk. I mean, you can tell.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there is gaydar, right? Yeah. Just checking, just checking. I didn't know. And back in the day for certain proclivities, there was a whole coding system.

I mean, there was the whole hanky system. What's that? Oh, you've never heard of this? So, okay. So, for certain sexual behaviors that you were interested in, there was a code of hankies, you know, the kerchiefs, like the red kerchief, you would put it in your back pocket. And so a red one meant something, a yellow one meant you were into golden showers, a

black one meant you were into something else, and a blue one meant you were into something else. And if you wore your keys on, let's see, keys on the left, L.A. Keys on the left, you were active. Keys on the right, you were passive. So you were top or bottom, to use today's terminology. Right, activo-passivo if you're in Mexico, right. There were little cards that were printed up with the Hankey code. Right. Activo-passivo if you're in Mexico. Right. There were little cards that were printed up with the Hankey code.

No. Yeah. They're handing out cards being like, here's what to do with your Hankey. I remember where they handed them out, but yeah, I've seen, we may have some in the collection. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I need to see that. Yeah. I need to get back to the collection. I need to see some of the stuff. That is so funny. Not the keys, not the keys on the left being on the top. That is so funny. That's the kind of shit I'm talking about.

We're not doing that anymore. No, we don't need to. We don't need to, but also there's a, people aren't even meeting up without seeing like, people are sharing albums on Grindr before they even talk. Of like every nude photo that they've taken of their body. I'm like, I actually don't need that. I'd rather be kind of surprised by, I don't know.

I think it's just more fun. Well, yeah, you don't know what you're gonna get. Yeah, which is great. It is more fun. That's the whole point. I don't know, I just feel like this, I have a real bent against, not just in gay sex and dating, just kind of in culture generally lately,

of like the crusade of certainty. We want certainty about everything. And we're in the pursuit of certainty, we're like really, we're squelching out a lot of surprise and excitement in our lives by even just simple things that we all do, myself included, like, you know, looking up every restaurant in a two mile radius before you pick somewhere for dinner

and looking at the chairs and the vibe and the menu. Right. And, you know, looking at the artist Instagram story before you go to the concert, because they're going to say when they're going on the stage, you can miss the opener on purpose. Really? Oh, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. And it, you know, I've talked about this before, but I think like that kind of certainty and that like pursuit of only doing the exact thing you want to do, it is like a real problem. And you're missing out on so much. I mean, just this, just the idea of chance. You're, you're, you're eliminating all of that. And that's the thing about chance. It can go in either direction and it can be really, really great or it can be really,

really not. Yeah. And either way, you have a good story. Yeah. That's the thing. That's what I love about being a comedian is I think every experience is worthwhile. Every experience is worthwhile. If I have a really bad night, then I have something funny to talk about. Exactly. That's like that, but that applying that to your life more generally and being like, oh, bad experiences are worthwhile. It has value to

have a night that I didn't plan on having and didn't necessarily enjoy. Right. You know? Right. But I think we're losing that a little bit with, you know, obviously the phones haven't helped, but you don't have a phone. Right. You're crazy for that one. I really wanna be you so bad. You can, you can just let your phone go.

Stuart. Yes, you can. I tried, brother. I tried and I tried to have a dumb phone, not even have no phone. I tried to have a dumb phone not even have no phone I tried to have a dumb phone with you know, you know social media and stuff on it. I was cast aside I was cast aside. Well, yeah, I mean you're left out of everything you're left out of a Whole world of Different kind of experience mediated experience, but you but you're still left out of it. Yeah. And you are disconnected.

Yeah. But there's some liberation in that too. Have you ever had a cell phone? Yes. Well, how'd it go? Not well. Okay. When was it?

Oh, it's been a while. 10 years ago. Yeah. I mean, I had a flip phone and then I had a smartphone for a little while and I just hated it. Yeah. I mean I had a flip phone and then I had a smartphone for a little while and I just hated it. Yeah. So. Yeah, all you really have is vibes and your little notebook. Yeah. Yeah. Which is in my pocket. Yeah. My favorite thing about you is when we hang out and I say something that you want to remember and you pull out the notebook

and start scribbling. Well yeah, I put your new address in my notebook so I can go look it up and help me figure out who lived there. Yeah, I love that, I really do. I have to email you to hang out with you. I think that's beautiful. Yeah, I remember when email was introduced.

And I'm old enough that any sort of computer interaction is really work. It has always been, and in my mind will always be connected to work. And so when I'm not at work or when I don't want to feel like I'm at work, I'm not going to be connected to something that just mimics that. Yeah. Yeah, it's not... My relationship with it is very different than folks of your generation. Yeah, we grew up on it for play. Yeah, it's not, my relationship with it is very different than folks of your generation. Yeah, we grew up on it for play.

It was like enjoyment. Yeah, for recreation. Yeah. Like from a very early age. Yeah, I got a Facebook and MySpace were happening when we were in, I wasn't actually on MySpace. I was somehow kind of shielded from social media a little more than a lot of people that grew up

at the same time as me. Why is that? Was that because you were in Missouri, in central Missouri? Yeah, our internet was slow, and also we were poor, and so our computer sucked. Yeah. You know, it was like, it just wasn't as like, I wasn't on MySpace the way that some of my friends were. I was on Facebook for sure, but I was even a little slow to that, I felt. And then I got really into it. I got really on Facebook in a big way in middle school was like posting full albums after every

single event like we I was doing the whole Facebook thing we would we would take digital cameras out with us yeah and we would take 120 photos of a nothing event and then we would go home and post an entire album of it right as soon as we got home and it would be like a picture I accidentally took of your shoe it's going right right because you just had to do the you plugged your camera and it did the blanket upload. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But anyway that's not interesting. So you moved here in the mid permanently in the mid 80s. Yeah. You come here originally in 1980. Yeah. Moved here permanently in the mid 80s and then what

is queer activism like in the the Midwest around that time? Like what is it, how do you get involved? At that point we're just starting to see the introduction of AIDS in Kansas City in a meaningful way. And so there's no real coordinated response on the part of the community in terms of activism, really, for a couple of years, sort of 87, 88, with the formation of the local chapter of Act Up. And as more and more people get sick, the first community aid service organization was started in 85, the Good Samaritan Project.

But as far as sort of visible activism, it wasn't until much later in the decade and in particular after the March on Washington in 87 because a bunch of Kansans went and there was a lot of energy to do community fundraising to pay for folks to go. And then when they came back, they started a number of energy to do community fundraising, to pay for folks to go. And then when they came back, they started a number of different groups. When you say that AIDS kind of showed up in Kansas City, when was that and what did that look like? I mean, like what, community wise,

how did that come to your knowledge? Community wise, well, the first time I ever read about AIDS was in 1982 in a gay porn magazine. This was in Springfield. I worked at a bookstore out on South Campbell out by Kickapoo High School. And we were next door to, and the shopping center's still there, Park Crest Shopping Center. There was a, the only adult theater in town

was right next door to us. And so we had a big collection of porn. And anyway, I had to do quality control on the gay porn. Of course. So. You're just doing your job. Right, exactly. And so.

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so true babbel.com slash so true rules and restrictions may apply. Who knows? We'll see. The headline read, uh, gay cancer question mark. And then here, as the decade went on, I came up here, really the only reliable place to get information about new symptoms and treatment protocols and just what was going on was in the little magazine, the alternate news that they gave out at the bars every week. It was a, I call it a bar rag. It was just published for the community and because it was distributed in bars, you know, most of the content was reporting on dart tournaments or drag shows or softball tournaments or just the kind of things that folks who went to bars were engaged in. But it was as things got worse, it was like I said the only source of up-to-date information because of course you had three network news stations at that point, all of which like they

still are, were designed to scare people. So you weren't getting the information that you needed as a 25 year old person who was sexually active. And so that was my reason for going out to bars every week, ostensibly, was to get the alternate news. I'm here for the news, thank you. Don't fart with me, boys. Nice try, fellas, but I'm here to read the news. Right, boys. Nice try, fellas, but I'm here to read the news. Right, right.

So what was the gap between the network, the traditional media news coverage of the situation and the news that the community was spreading itself? What did that difference look like? The news that was community generated was really the news you needed. I mean, it was, OK, I can remember. God, I can remember this friend of mine

and I that I would go out with because I didn't have a car. So he drove. And we had read in the alternate news about the symptoms of thrush, which is a condition that shows up on your tongue, like fuzzy, fuzzy on your tongue. And so we had compared notes about checking our tongues in the mirror just to see because this is in a period when they still hadn't identified HIV. So nobody knew what was causing this. So it was that kind of nuts and bolts information that you found in those publications, whereas everything on TV was just reporting on the ugliness of the response on the parts of people like Jesse Holmes and of course President Reagan and

Just the fear and the mystery around all of it. Yeah. Yeah It really is like every I mean you and I have talked about a lot of the stuff in private But it really is always so shocking to me that gay bars were so Crucial that like gay bars were really like community centers and where you actually found friends and lovers and potential partners and people were fliering and pamphleting and that is not at all the feeling of Gay bars that I get now They're crucial of course like they're fun and exciting and you can like find a great hookup for the night

But it the way that you talk about gay bars then, it just feels so much more vital. It was vital because it was one of the few safe spaces, as we would call them now, that existed. And you could just go in and let your shoulders down and not have to be on guard, right? And you didn't have to worry about covering anything up. And it was also a way to sort of keep tabs on the community

because if you went regularly, you would get to know people by sight. And then when those people stopped showing up for a few weeks, there was concern that maybe they're sick. And that was of course the euphemism, just being sick. That's how people talked about AIDS. Yeah. Yeah.

And then they'd show up again. So you could read a little easier and it's like, okay, maybe they were just on a trip or something, but they're okay. little easier and it's like okay maybe they were just on a trip or something but they're they're okay and I and you're right it was it was a quasi kind of community center because at the same time you had as time went on you had activists standing there handing out condoms and explaining why you needed to wear them and how to wear them appropriately and just the importance of safe sex practices.

And that's where a lot of the fundraising was happening, was in the bars, fundraising for organizations like Good Samaritan Project. Because the community tended to turn to drag queens to raise money because they're very good at visibly raising money. They're walking around with dollar bills in their hands, right? Yeah. So that was one of the places that these orgs went to raise money regularly. And the queens responded, of course, positively

and did a lot in the early years to fund these organizations. And where are the lesbians in all this? The lesbians, well, you know, in a city like this, there were enough bars that there were lesbian bars. So on, over on Main Street between 50th and 51st, that was one of the primary bars was, it was the Cabaret, and then two doors down was Billie Jean's, which was a lesbian bar.

I'm sure it was. It absolutely was. Hey, I believe you. But they were around, they were also participating in the fundraising, they were helping to take care of folks who were sick either formally or informally. They were volunteering at the orgs like Good Samaritan Project. So they stepped up.

They stepped up and did what needed to be done. Yeah. Yeah. And when... I have so many questions I want to be done. Yeah. Yeah. And when, I have so many questions I wanna ask you. Woman Town is something that a lot of people might not know about. It's very Kansas City specific.

Don't tune out, even if you don't care about Kansas City, this is interesting, I promise. Will you talk a little bit about Woman Town? Sure, Woman Town was an initiative that started in the very early 1990s to create as they built it an intentional urban women's community, Women with a Y. Basically what it was, was an effort to create a safe neighborhood, as the founders described it as a place where they felt safe walking hand in hand down the street.

And it was in a neighborhood, if you know Kansas City, from 25th to 31st, Gillum to Troost. And it was a neighborhood at that point that was just on the cusp of decline. And so these two women came and started buying property and then encouraged other women to come either buy property or rent property in the neighborhood. And if they bought property that needed some rehab, the members of Woman Town would collectively work together to rehab the property. And along the way, they established opportunities for social engagement. They did trips and they participated in things like marches and pride

and all that kind of stuff. And it turned out to be really quite successful and really, really resonates with the women who lived there. Yeah. Yeah. So they, these lesbians were going to like women's fairs and stuff, right? Like women's festivals and flyering and being like move to Kansas City, we're making lesbian town. And they were advertising,

they were advertising internationally and they got correspondence from all across the world. Cause they, you know, it was, it's an interesting take on promotion of the city. Cause they're promoting it to a very specific audience. And so in the materials that we have about Woman Town, you see a lot of these letters from women all across the country just inquiring about the scene and what it took to be here. But the founders are these two amazing women. They're now down in Georgia.

And I guess it was last year, we put up a historic marker commemorating woman town because it's a very interesting and unique take on the whole idea of lesbian separatism which really gained ground in the years immediately after Stonewall in the early 70s. Yeah. What's interesting to me about it is that the woman town was 20 years later and it was in the middle of a city.

Because the post Stonewall efforts were very rural. Get off the grid, get out of the patriarchy, and they were out in the woods basically remaking their world. Whereas here in Kansas City, it was just adapting. And we thought it was important enough to commemorate by installing this historic marker. And we wanted to do it while a lot of the women were still around. And so we had a really great event last summer and an unveiling and a number of the residents were in attendance. And it was just a really, it was a really fun blowout.

Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe that's already been last year. Yeah. It feels like yesterday. Yeah. This podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing, angry orchard. Listen guys, there's a litany of things we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest. Sometimes it's hard not to be. For example, don't get angry that your beloved sports team keeps blowing leads in the fourth quarter. Don't get angry that you just stubbed your toe like the furniture has a vendetta owl for you. Don't get angry when a autocorrect changes a word to something ridiculous. Instead, get an angry orchard and feel good, feel chill and refreshed, not pissed off. Just having a tasty orchard. Once you get a cold angry orchard in your hand,

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country every year. What was that thing? That was in the seventies. Yeah. So there was a group, um, that was called the 10 400 club. And we don't have a lot of reliable information about it. But from my understanding, the name comes from the address of one of the members, which at that point would have been 104th and something. And in the 70s, that was all country,

because that was south of the highway. And so it was a social club and it was a philanthropic club. They raised money for different kinds of community, broader community things like Toys for Tots, that kind of thing. And they would regularly have what they called pasture parties at a couple of farms of the members.

And we have some footage in the collection of a big giant party, like, it looks like about 200 people. And, you know, it's a party out in a pasture, and so everybody's sitting around their lawn chairs or on their blankets, but there's also footage of them doing these really quintessential kind of Midwestern things. There are sack races, there's a big giant egg toss, and then the film cuts to this sort of weird makeshift stage with this lesbian rock band playing, and then it cuts to an even smaller platform where this well-known black drag queen performs.

Out there in the middle of the farm. It's really, really kind of astounding, and it's a really cool example of what it was like for Midwestern queersers and these films are from about 1976 in the seventies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've always been here. Yeah. I think that's the stuff I love learning about that stuff because it just like growing up in, you know, small town northern Missouri I didn't know an openly gay person until I was in

my twenties. Right. That, you know, openly I didn't know anyone that I proclaimed as gay. I have my suspicions, but they're probably right. Yeah. I, yeah, there's at least one science teacher that I'm like the haircut told a story, you know? But yeah, I, I just think it's, it feels so good to me to hear about how long we've been here and, and, uh,

to think about the fact that for so long, I think a lot of real queer people experience this feeling of like, I don't belong here, this place is not for me. Right. And then to get evidence that it's like, well, that's just not true. Right. That's just not true. Because the thing about coming, about growing up and coming of age in the Midwest is that

you're really tied to the landscape. I mean that's one of the reasons we like living in the Midwest is because of the ties that we have here and that aren't necessarily queer ties but there is that tension between that and the fact that there are many many people who don't want you here. Well there are many many people who don't want you anywhere. So that's are many, many people who don't want you anywhere. So that's just going somewhere else isn't going to make that any different or go away. And it is nice to have the validation that we've always been around and always been in these spaces.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I don't want to give, yeah, that's why I, Home is so important to me because I don't want to give it to the people who want us to leave. Yeah. Well, and I don't want to get, yeah, that's why I, I, I, home is so important to me cause I don't want to give it to the people who want us to leave. Right. I don't want to give it to the, I don't want to, I don't want to cede that to them. The homophobes and racists and misogynists don't get to have the Midwest. Right. To me, I'm like, we can't leave and abandon and just all of us go away because they don't,

they don't get to own Missouri. I'm also from here. Right. And the kids, the queer kids who are coming of age now need to see queer people in Missouri, in Kansas, and know that they are here and that it's okay to be queer and be here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm backtracking a little bit. You're here in the mid-'80s. And when do you meet your husband? We met in December of 1988 at a bar. Which bar?

Cabaret, of course. Cabaret, of course. The lesbian bar? No, that was Billie Jean's. Oh, sorry. Oh, you were telling me in reference to gotcha, gotcha, of course. Cabaret, of course. The lesbian bar? No, that was Billie Jean's. Oh, sorry. Oh, you were telling me in reference to gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yes, I thought they were both lesbian bars, but not the deal. Oh, no, no.

Cabaret was a men's bar, definitely. So you guys met at the bar in 1988. Yes. And just, come on, give me the good stuff. How did it, what happened? So he was there with his partner at the time. Boo. And a friend of theirs.

And I had had enough libations that I had... I hated going to bars because I just stood there by myself. So I'd get drunk enough to then just go dance by myself. And so I was dancing by myself and their friend sort of approached me on the dance floor and gestured if he could dance and I said sure. So we ended up connecting and then his name was Craig. The four of us started running around together as two couples, as friends. And then my husband Christopher and I, after about a year of that, realized separately that we were not with the people we should be with.

And so... Drama. It was drama. And so... Drama. It was drama. It was total drama. And they exited the picture and Christopher and I connected just sort of, kind of, begrudgingly on the rebound. And we're like, OK, let's just see what this is going to be like.

And then 34 years later, here we are. That's so sweet. I love that. I love that. So how long were you guys friends before you, the breakups happened, and you officially... About two years. Yeah. Yeah. God. Yeah, it was two years of drama. I was gonna say, I'm like, that's excruciating. Yeah, it was a lot because each of the partners had their own issues, mostly from their families, actually, you know, that I think about it. Because his partner was a Syrian who had lots of challenges, and my partner had lots of challenges from his family. So, yeah.

Yeah. And then you guys linked up. Yep. And it's been 34 years. Yeah. That's crazy. Does that feel crazy to you? Mm-hmm.

Yes. It does feel crazy. You know, and it's just like any relationship, it's work and you work through stuff and then you reach a point where as we say it's it's it's too much work to train a new one so oh you just ride with it what's your favorite thing about him he's so smart and he makes me laugh. Yeah. Yeah. He is so smart. He is really, really smart. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean you are too. It makes sense. But when I met him I was like, this guy's brilliant. Yeah,

he really is. Yeah. Yeah. What is, is there another quality, Smart and Makes You Laugh are two great ones. Is there a quality that, cause you know, you guys, how old are you in 1988? 27? In 89. Yeah, I'm 27. Yeah. So you're young, you've got options. You're in Kansas city. It's a, there's a few gay bars. Things are going on. There's gay guys here. You could have also moved somewhere else and been single if you wanted to. Right.

Is there a quality about Christopher that made you think, this is what I should be doing. This is the person I should be with? Not immediately. Yeah. You learn that. You kind of learn that as you go along in the early years. Because he's an artist.

He's a visual artist. And I had always had a thing about Art Boys. Yeah. And I really liked that idea of being with an artist and helping to support an artist and the work that they do. And because the kids I ran around with in college were all artists. And I am not, I'm not, I'm not, and I just admire it. I think you realize as time goes on, it's like, okay, so this is where it can work

and this is where it fits and this is why we should continue. And we both came from similar backgrounds, which I think helped. We both came from small towns, he I think helped. We both came from small towns. He in Oklahoma and me in Southwest Missouri, because I grew up in a smaller town, uh, South of Springfield. And, um, just that shorthand of that experience of that life experience. Also contributed to our understanding of each other and why we do things the way we do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's beautiful. I love that. And he's also a very good artist. Yeah. By the way.

Yeah. I can see why, I can see what you were picking up on. Yeah. I see it all. I see what both of you were picking up on. You emailed me a picture recently of you from back in the day and I said, I know that's right. I said, I said, damn right, Christopher, come on.

She told me that you got hired at some restaurant job because the owner wanted to, Oh yeah, he wanted it in my pants. That's the only reason he hired me. I had no experience whatsoever. And he hired me as a cook. Yeah, I know. That's right. He said, you'll figure the stove out.

Get in here. I don't know how to turn it off. Yeah. Well, God, I left that's right. He said, you'll figure the stove out. Get in here. I don't know to turn it off. Yeah. Well, God, I left my stove on all night last night. I don't even know if we've said that on here yet. I didn't, I didn't even use it. I just bumped into it and turned the gas on and

then woke up this morning. It was like, my house smells funny. We'll see what happens. I don't know. I'm having a good time. I hope I live longer, but if the stove takes me. Well, yeah. Stay away from the stove then. Okay, what else do I want to ask you? Well, God, there's so many things. You work with college students a lot as a teacher, professor.

What is going on with the AI shit? What are we thinking about this? I'm scared. I honestly don't know. OK. Because in our little niche, because we're dealing with old books and we're dealing with archival materials, we're pretty removed from the AI. And it's not going to take over our our work so none of us are worried about it

and then in terms of the classroom I'm a very casual and laid-back teacher. You're a cool professor yeah. And I because I'm an adjunct and I get paid no money yeah and so I'm not going to be as intense as like a full time teaching faculty member. And so I give them very simple assignments. All they have to do is two film reviews. And this semester especially, I could tell that they either copied and pasted it or they had some computer, some of them had some computer spit it out for them. Yeah.

You know, as I tell them, the first class we have, I'm not there to grade their writing skills or to meet the student learning outcomes or any of that crap. I'm there as their gelder to share these stories with them. And if they choose to go down a path that isn't as challenging as it could be for them, that's their choice.

They get less out of the class. Um, but I'm not going to track it down because one semester I did, uh, call a girl out on her plagiarism and it ended up being a crap ton more work for me as the instructor and I was like I don't have time for that. So I just got to shift the burden of responsibility back to them and you know it's however much they want to get out of the class they'll put into it. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me sad though for a million reasons I mean the AI stuff. I'm at my fucking wits end already with it. I'm so mad about it. I

We just got another offer yesterday. I didn't tell you guys this We've got another offer yesterday to do a huge ad campaign for an AI really. Oh, they're offering There well, they're consent manufacturing right now, right? That's what I want a lot of people platforms to understand is they are they're in the well, they're consent manufacturing right now. Right. That's what I want a lot of people at platforms to understand is they are in the process right now of manufacturing consent for this technology. And when they come and offer people

with cool platforms or audiences or whatever, whatever that means, and they offer you an outsized amount of money, which they are, all of them, they offer you hundreds of thousands of dollars to do an ad deal for them. They are doing that because they need your help to manufacture consent for this. So that when they use this to take everybody's jobs, when they use this to destroy, it's already ruining our brains. We already have the shit just got here, and we already have research about what it's doing to the human brain. It's making us, it's gonna make us dumber. It's going to steal jobs from people

that we already don't have to give away. And I just feel insane about it. But it makes me even more sad in a class like Queer History, which is presumably a lot of queer kids, that I'm like, why take it? Why take it if you don't wanna, this is important stuff. And this is actually like the privilege and the benefit and the joy of being a student is that there's this time in your life where you get to dedicate many

hours a day to just thinking, right? That will never happen for you again. That's so exciting. Right. And I know that I totally, I totally slacked off in parts of undergrad and there are totally things that I didn't, uh, you know, a care for, I didn't appreciate the way that I should have. Right. That's just part of being 20. But there's something more happening now, I think.

And maybe that's just because I'm 30. And maybe I'm just becoming one of those guys who's like, it's different. But I do think there's a difference between phoning in a 12-page essay but still writing it yourself and just completely turning it over to a computer. Yeah. I do feel that there's a difference in that.

Yeah. And, you know, if I had my drivers, I wouldn't even sign them the two film reviews. Yeah. And they're only three pages, three to five pages. It's like, come on, kids. And I tell them what to do. Yeah.

But I have to, just to meet the needs of the school. And yeah, to your point about it being the only time in your life where you are going to be able to do this, where you and a group of other people are going to read the same thing at the same time, and then come together and learn more about it. Take advantage of that and dive in and be a student. The whole point of being a student is that you don't know. I don't expect you to know this. That's why you're taking a class like this or any class.

And it's okay to not know. That's why you're here and then spend the time Learning it and then you walk away knowing it. Yeah. Yeah. What would you What would you tell? What do you wish that younger queer people knew? Like what do you wish that younger queer people knew or understood that you think they might not? I Wish that they knew more about their history and quite honestly I wish the community as a whole had better infrastructures for making

intergenerational connections, which we don't. We're really, really bad about that. And we just don't have any systems for connecting older queers with younger ones to help them along and to guide them and help them through, you know, most cultures have rituals around specific ages or rituals around specific points in life, and we don't have that. And I'm trying to figure out a way as, again, a gelder, to put that into place where we can.

I'm actually meeting with a group next month that deals with queer seniors. Because I did a series of talks in May at the Artists Coalition, Kansas City Arts Coalition. And the audience was really diverse in terms of age, from senior seniors to very, very young people. And in our conversations over the course of the series, the young people were really, really interested in how can we replicate

this kind of makeup of an audience for our own organizations. And so we were all kind of brainstorming ways to do that, and I think there's, just like there's a hunger for the history I think there's a hunger for making those connections. I think one of the big barriers is the technology divide. Because just as you said you're on this thing all the time, you're immersed in digital all the time, and many people my age and older are not. Yeah.

And so there's a real true disconnect there, and it's just kind of figuring out ways to overcome that. I think people are starving for community in general. Yeah. Right now. Yeah. And connection in general, but I do think, I can't speak for older queer folks,

but I know that younger queer folks would be excited at the prospect of having an intergenerational queer friendship. I make a lot of new friends, and you're one of my favorite people I've met in years. We have such great conversations. I just love hanging out with you. You have probably the best advice on boys.

I feel so bad for you. Every time we get together, I've got a new boy problem for you to solve. That's all right. Take advantage. Yeah. I'm like, it's, yeah, I just think it's beautiful to have those kinds of friendships. And I think, yeah, I'm also interested in figuring out how we can do that. Yeah. And I also want to, like, you've taught me so much about, like, queer people in Kansas City,

even, that did so much for our community and like made Kansas City a viable place for an openly gay person to live period. Right. That are now struggling or now have this or that. And I'm like, I want to help. I'll do anything, you know, that you were helping that person, that older lesbian move out of her house. Right. And she was such a, you know, there just things like that where I'm like, I would show up at mood boxes for a day. Yeah. Or whatever, you know? Um, yeah, I think that's, I think knowing our history is really important and I would like to help make more intergenerational connections. Um, there's just a lot of hope in that also. Yeah. I think it's a real source

of hope on both sides. Yeah. Quite honestly, cause, uh because for the older generation, you know, Grindr is a mystery and... Grindr is a mystery....back in the day is a mystery, by the way. And so I just think it helps us to understand what you all are having to contend with that we never would have, that we never did. Yeah. And what we don't have to contend with because you did. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's a good point.

That's a good point. Good job, Caleb. Okay. Question for you. And I, you know, this might be annoying and you don't have to answer it because I know sometimes... Anyway, you're in a beautiful long marriage. We talked about Christopher, who we love. Shout out Christopher and his garden that he's obsessed with. What do you think is the secret? What is the secret to a good long... Maybe not even secret. What is your advice for a good long healthy relationship? good long, maybe not even secret, what is your advice for a good long healthy relationship? We have always said that we were lucky in that we each married someone who likes to

be by themselves and I think just making room for the other person in those kinds of ways, whatever it is, whether it's an outgoing personality, then you just make room for that. Or whether it's a little more sedate and introspective kind of personality. And just, again, in the early phases, just kind of figuring out what you're dealing with and what's in front of you, and if you want to make it work, then you try to find ways to accommodate that and make room for that. Yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense to me. Yeah. What's so true to you, Stuart? What's so true to me is that, I don't know, to be honest, your phones are crack. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha And crack is whack. Yeah. Okay, say more. What do you think?

It's bad for us, the phones? Oh. But fun, you have to admit. I presume they're fun. There's gotta be some draw. No, they're horrible. I hate them. Yeah, I mean, cause Christopher has one.

And I... People are on them all the time. And when they're forced to be off of them like in a classroom, you can see them getting itchy. It's just like, I need my opium, I need my crack. It's astounding to me. It's astounding to me just how much people give over to their devices, especially in terms of time. Yeah. Yeah. The crazy thing is everyone knows it. That's the thing is it's not hidden. Everyone that you would,

my friends who spend the most time on their phone, and I am not innocent of this, I spend a lot of time on the phone. I think I have a pretty balanced relationship with it, all things considered, but even still, it's bad, and I am bad at it, but everyone, my friends who are on the phone the most will go like, oh, I know, I'm wasting so much of my life on this thing,

and we can't stop, it's nuts. It's really nuts. Doom scrolling, put it, shut up, put it down. I've had it with this. My friends will be like, oh, I was up till 4 a.m., doom's growing, shut it off, are you 12? Stop it. That I can't understand.

I'm like, when I start to feel bad, I do at least put it down, no tea, no shade, but it is insane to me that we all know how bad it is and we're all still doing it all the time. I am with you on that. Because you can just put it away. You should really only be on your phone for like an hour and a half a week,

and it's Thursdays when my show comes out. Other than that, I think read a book, get out there. Go for a walk. Go for a walk, maybe listen to So True. And then I think as long as you listen to all my ads and don't click through them and maybe use the discount code, then you should log off a little bit. Right. Yeah. Right. That'd be good for the culture priorities. It is. I've talked about this a lot, but it is funny. I do think we should all get off the phones. I'm actively trying to,

I hate the internet. I don't like it. Yeah. I don't put God bless Virginia. She does all my posting. Uh, it is not me that you're interacting with on there. I've been very open about that. And yet it is my job. And so I'm like, don't shut it off entirely. Oh no. It's a weird conundrum because that's how you do promotion. That's how you have to do promotion now. And that's something that we have faced with the archive because I'm not on anything and so as a result it's really hard to promote stuff

because the primary tools I don't use. We don't use. Yeah. So. What do you need in your work? What do you, do you need donations to the archive? Do you, what do you need most? work? What do you, do you need donations to the archive? Do you, what do you need most? You've got a captive audience here.

We have launched a campaign to endow a position that is dedicated to Glamour. Because our thinking, because I've got about four years left before I retire. And the thinking being that if we have a position that is funded with money that doesn't come from the state, that removes the threat of the state getting involved with what it is we're trying to do. That gives a buffer to the collection. Aka, if they were funding it, they could just cut it all together and the way things are going, they likely would. Yeah. Yeah. Right. AKA, if they were funding it, they could just cut it all together. And the way things are going, they likely would.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's not out of the realm of possibility. And so that's our focus right now. My dean's focus, and by extension, my focus, is to generate awareness about that campaign and try and raise that money.

Yeah. She wants to try to do it before I retire. I'm not sure that will happen. awareness about that campaign and try and raise that money. She wants to try to do it before I retire. I'm not sure that will happen because it would be helpful for a new person to overlap. This job is all about relationships and it would benefit them to take advantage of me being still around so I can introduce them to people, to donors and other people just to help them get their footing. Yeah.

We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Well, we'll put the link for the donation. You'll have to send it to us and I'll make a donation for sure. And well, anybody else who wants to make a donation can do that. I appreciate that. But guess what?

I have one more segment for you. This is a game. Okay. Speaking of donations, I'm going to read you 15 statements. Okay. Okay. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can after each one. If you think what I just said is true or false, if you get 10 or more correct, Stuart, I'm going to give you 50 us dollars. It's a game show. You ready?

I want Canadian dollar. No, I'm an American. God damn it. Actually, let me check the conversion rate on that. You might be able to get your way. Okay, you ready? Okay, Keanu Reeves has a twin brother. False. That is false. Oh, you were quick too.

Penicillin is an antihistamine. False. False, it's an antibiotic. Burger King was originally called Insta Burger King. True. That is true. The band Kiss had four original members. False.

It's true. Chase Banks headquarters is in Atlanta. False. False. New York City. Miller Lite came out in 1973. True. That is true. Pistol dueling used to be an Olympic sport.

True. That is true. Abdominal pain is the number one thing people visit the ER for. True. True. Andy Reed, head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs, was born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin. False. False. Do you know what coach of the Kansas City Chiefs, was born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin. False. False. Do you know what it was?

No. Los Angeles. The largest indoor theme park in Europe is in Moscow. True. True. Penguin Bay is the capital of Antarctica. True. False. It has no capital.

Julia Roberts has been nominated for 10 Golden Globes. True. True. Game of Thrones ran for eight seasons. True. True. Blue Whales mate for life. True. True. Blue whales mate for life. True. False.

The Kansas City women's soccer team is called the Fountaineers. False. False. It's the current. How'd he do? 11. 11! Oh, 12. Yeah. Oh, nice. 12 is really good. Wow. 12 is really good.

You'd be shocked. A lot of our guests are not very smart. Stuart, it was a pleasure to have you. Is there anything you want to tell the people before you go? Anything you feel we left out? No, I think we covered a lot. I could have done more. I could have done two or three hours more.

And it was a pleasure. We'll have to have you back. It was always a pleasure. I just love you. Thank you for doing it. Same here. Thanks for being here. You're welcome.

Thank you. Anytime. That was a hate gum podcast.