So True with Caleb Hearon - Confronting My Producer

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Welcome back! It’s the moment some of you have been waiting for! This week’s guest is the hilarious and talented producer of the show Chance Nichols! Chance and Caleb talk not liking each other when they first met, their college improv days, the creation of the podcast, dogs, and so much more! Join our Patreon for an exclusive extended interview with Fortune and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow Chance! @chanceisloudFollow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance NicholsStop putting off those doctors appointments and go to www.Zocdoc.com/SOTRUE to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.Exclusive $35-off Carver Mat at www.AuraFrames.com. Promo Code SOTRUEThere’s no replacement for human connection. Better with people. Better with Alma. Visit www.helloalma.com/SOTRUE to get started and schedule a free consultation today.About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by ketchup, tangy barbecue, honey, mustard, honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac sauce, double dipped in Buffalo and ranch, more ranch, and creamy chili McCrispy Strip dip. Now at McDonald's. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think that what I just said is true or false

If you get ten or more correct you get to keep your job Wow if you get fewer than ten correct, uh-huh. This will be your final week of employment with the show Okay, let's do it. I Can't believe we're doing this why you I just don't it's you know what I'm worried about what are you worried about? I'm worried. It's like when you give a kid dessert before they've done their chores or something sure I'm worried that I'm I worried that everything's just downhill from here so excuse me you think You think after a year and some change of work on the show behind the scenes, I still haven't done my chores. I just worry that I just worry that you were this was what it was all about. Uh-huh.

And now I'm gonna see a steady decline in work and productivity. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm a leftist. Of course. As much as the next guy. Of course. This is a business. Yes, sir. And people have to work. Oh, yeah. And so I need you to show up to work, you know? I'm not gonna change up one iota. Really? I'm gonna be normal, I'm gonna be me. I'm gonna be me after this. I'm gonna be normal.

I'm not gonna wear sunglasses inside. The promise of normal. The promise of normal is something that I hold dear to my heart because I do like to be, you said something really nice to me and I think it was on one of the Patreon ones, you called me a rock. You called me a rock.

Yeah, you're heavy and in the way. Oh! Mr. Heron. Don't, hey. You don't want a Mr. Heron this episode? The serves and the Mr. Heron's bit might have to be over. Okay. Let's address that on the pod.

Okay. It just is like, it's almost like you say it like it's funny but it's like I am your boss. Yeah. Do you know? This is my one respite. This is my version of, because I'm like, you are the boss and I'm kind of the middle manager in this world. And so this is my version of throwing a pizza party. This is the fun that's not really fun.

You know what I mean? Yeah, your whole body is tense right now. Yeah. You seem really on edge. I'm a little on edge just because I genuinely hate how I look at every moment. And I'm worried about. Ha ha ha over and over and over again and be like, God damn it, what happened?

You know? Well, we should work on that. Yeah, I think so. And also, it's real though, I mean, there's something about being in front of high quality cameras every week for an hour and a half. I feel I've had to really, everything on the internet has gotten me to a better

place with like, well immediately took me to a really, I never thought about my appearance before I was doing internet stuff. I never thought about the way I looked. When I was on stage I was never wondering if I looked fat or if my hairline was pushing back too much or if I was looking older in the face or anything. Never. The second I started doing internet stuff I started picking up my appearance and going, oh, I didn't used to look like this. And then I look at pictures from before and go, yeah, you looked like this. You just didn't ever think about it,

and you were fine with it. And then yeah, the podcast, the high quality camera every week of it all, you have to kind of distance yourself from your physical form. Yeah, and I'm also like, I've been trying something because I think I have some form of legitimate body dysmorphia. Because I see how I look in mirrors,

which apparently is more accurate to how you actually look than like a camera lens or like a video or whatever. I'm like, oh I like that. And then I'll see like, somebody will have filmed like a video of me doing stand up or like a sketch that I didn't shoot myself or whatever. And I'll be like, who is that person?

And I don't know, but I don't know if it was you that said this. Somebody said this recently, and it really rung true for me. Somebody was like, I've stopped caring about how I look in photos. I care about how I feel in photos. Like, was I happy?

Like, oh, I was happy taking this picture with my friend that I took a photo with. And I'm trying to bring that in. That's really beautiful. Yeah, thank you. I really like that. Thank you. I have definitely, Virginia and I talked about this a little bit Maybe on tour I used to be one of those people who have someone took an unflattering picture or video of me and posted it on

Their Instagram story like a friend. I would message them back and be like, please delete this Yep, and now I don't care if I look like a fucking bridge troll for sure I'm like you post whatever you want. I do not care. It does not matter to me. No. You have to get to that place, I think, because it's just, there's so much picture and video and capturing of image that I'm just like, and by the way, I like the way I look. You're very handsome.

No chance. You're very handsome, and I'll say this to anybody who asks, you're a very handsome man, and I think you are, you said this once, I keep referencing things that you've said before just because I listen to you so much just in my life I think you are, you said this once, I keep referencing things that you've said before just because I listen to you so much just in my life, but you said something about if you know my silhouette, you know who I am.

As far as anonymity goes, I'm like, you are a well-built character. You know what I mean? Yeah, nice. Nice. Like Tony Hawk, you're a well-built, it's like, oh yeah, all this is checking out and lining up and there's some synchronicity in here that's beautiful.

Chance, I think you're quite handsome, brother. Thank you. I think you have nothing to worry about on the looks front. Thank you. I would love, love, love, anytime you ever wanna talk about clothes or hair styling or beard, I'm always happy to talk about it.

Well, you brought up, this is years ago, you asked me, we were at like lunch in Chicago or beard, I'm always happy to talk about it. Well you brought up, this is years ago, you asked me, we were at lunch in Chicago or something, you were like, would you just give me $200? And I'm just gonna, give me $200, all your sizes for pants, shirts, all these things, and I'm just gonna go to Target and a couple other places, and I'm gonna redo your wardrobe. Would you let me do that?

And at the time I was like, what's wrong with my wardrobe? Basketball shorts and hoodies aren't cool? And I've thought about wanting to take you up on it again. I would still do it. There's nothing wrong with your wardrobe. I believe that conversation was spurred out of a conversation where you said, oh, I feel like my clothes are basic.

You would express being like, oh, I don't really know how to get the look that I'm looking for, or what things would look good on me and not on other people. And I am pretty good about understanding what would look good on somebody versus someone else. Not everything looks good on everybody and that doesn't mean that everybody shouldn't wear whatever they want. Everybody should wear whatever they want.

But objectively, certain things create different lines and different aesthetic appeals to different body types. That's just how it is. Well, and I'm remembering now, this was like at the tail end of 2019, and then I told myself, one of the things I kept repeating to myself going into 2020 was,

I'm gonna live out loud this year. I'm gonna get colorful with my clothes. Like, I'm a silly, like I don't wanna be like a clown, but you know, fun patterns, fun colors, things things like that if you find like my New Year's Eve Outfit that in 2019 like it was like a fun like stripy shirt with a white blazer and like purple pants I was like this is gonna be it. This is gonna be and then I Wore the same outfit for nine months. Yeah

Yeah, miss Covina. Mm-hmm. I loved her so much. She was so good to me. Well, she's still here Yeah, miss Covina. Mm-hmm. I loved her so much. She was so good to me. Well, she's still here By the way, by the way, by the way, not that you're acting like it. No. Hmm. That's not funny It's interesting. We shouldn't be joking about stuff like that. How who are you to say? What is and what isn't funny? The king of comedy. Okay. Yeah. All right There you go Well, well, I think we did it any question Oh the arbiter of truth. Yeah.

Any questions? No, sir. It has to be kind of weird for you that we've been friends for so long and now so many hours of your life are listening to me talk. Yeah, I've developed not what I call, I wouldn't call it a numbness to it, but there is.

Okay. There's just a, I've gotten to a point where I'm seeing it almost as like just data. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this is a funny piece of data. This is a sincere piece of data. And when I'm like going through the episode and doing the notes and stuff,

it's not like I'm like, oh, and here goes Caleb again. It's like, oh, this is a good moment. Oh, this is a good moment. Oh, we need to cut this. Oh, and it's much more streamlined in my head. But it is weird, especially after like during the tour when we've just kind of been on top of each other for like a month and then doing like an episode edit

being like, all right, well, we'll see in the morning. And then turning around, it's like, and now more Caleb. Just on my computer. I'm just there haunting you. There's worse people to be haunted by. Absolutely, but I am haunting. And I wonder if you ever, you know, for the people who don't know our lore,

we met in college, doing college improv. So much fun. Effectively, a lot of fun. Did you ever in a million years imagine that this would be the thing? No. Yeah. I sure didn't. Yeah, me neither. I sure didn't. What did you think was gonna be the thing? No. Yeah. I sure didn't.

Yeah, me neither. I sure didn't. What did you think was going to be the thing? When we first met, I didn't imagine that we would ever really be talking again. Correct. Yeah. We were enemies when we met. We did not like each other.

We did not like each other. No. And that was mutual. It sure was. And I thought if I never have to talk to that guy again, it would be the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. It wasn't that serious.

But I did, I was like, you definitely pushed my buttons for reasons that I think part of it is just that my friends liked you in a way that I was like, well, why are we liking someone new when we've already got the group? Like, I didn't understand that. That was just like childish, stupid, being 20 stuff. And then I think also the comedy stuff of it all,

I felt a little bit like I hadn't yet given myself permission to pursue comedy. I felt like somebody had to kind of tap you on the shoulder and go, hey, you're funny, you're welcome to try. And you had already given yourself permission in such a big way, in like very much a very straight guy kind of way, where you were like, I am funny and I'm gonna go pursue this.

And you were right, you should have been. But I hadn't given myself that yet, and so I kind of pathologized that in you, and I think I resented you a little bit because of it. Sure, and that's fair. And I was annoyed, I was just like, who does this guy fucking think he is? Yeah, I was up on my high horse a little bit back then

when it came to comedy, just because I had had so many, I'd just been doing it so long at that point. A lot of our friends started doing comedy in college. I did my first standup set when I was 15. I started doing improv when I was 11 in the local scene in Springfield, Missouri. And it was all just like, I felt like an elder statesman already,

which is so annoying to people my age. And honestly, what absolved me of all of that, and I think when our friendship really started cooking, was when I stopped kind of associating with the local comedy people and just gave myself over fully to the campus comedy scene. Because it was the first time in my life that I had been doing comedy with my peers.

Like people my age that also have aspirations and goals and dreams and energy for those things, as opposed to a bunch of people, not necessarily like a character judgment on them, but in their own heads, they're like, I'm on the wrong side of 35 and I don't really like my life, this improv thing. Started out as something fun

and now it's turned into something where I just kind of use it to control young people. It's a different energy. And it's why college campuses are so magic. Even still, when I go to a college gig and I'm on a college campus, you just feel an energy of like, every person who inhabits this space on a daily basis feels mostly correctly that their entire life is ahead of them. And that energy is in the fucking bushes.

It is in the college like a college campus, you just feel optimism. You can milk it out of like the mascot. Yeah, I tell you. Yeah, you could milk the mascot. You could. You could go up to Boomer Bear. You could jerk optimism out of the mascot.

You could jerk Boomer Bear, and it's just a string of optimism flowing out of him. Yeah. And that was fun to say. Yeah. But I know exactly what you mean. It is like, there's something about, and what's really sad is when people are wrong.

I know people in my life that was just like, oh, those four years were the best for you. Is that sad? I think it's a little sad, just because it's never, it's almost never they got like just so unlucky that that's the case. It's they decided in their mind that,

and they kind of gave up. You know what I mean? It's like that with high school too. A lot of people I went to high school with are just like, oh yeah, friends' parents were telling me when we were in high school, it's like, it's a special four years

that you'll never get back, which is true, but it's like some people I feel like heard that not as, oh yes, that was a special four years, and there's going to be many more special four years as in my life. I think they heard that as, well have fun now, because after this, it's all downhill. I think that's very sad.

I think there could be a sadness to it. I mean, it's funny to me when I think about that a lot, when I think about the idea of peaking, I go, well, in every life, one of the chunks of time has to be the best chunk. you know I mean some people's are going to be high school Some people's are going to be college some people are going to be their 50s Yeah, but everyone has to have a best time of their life like that is idea I have been very lucky that my life has gotten better every year

I've enjoyed I've enjoyed each chapter of my life more than the last so far Yeah, and I have big big hopes and dreams that it'll continue that way. I didn't have massive struggles. High school and college sucked in a million ways. Being broke in Chicago sucked in a million ways. This part of life that we're in currently has tons of drawbacks. It's just, I think it's a perspective

that you either choose to make this year feel better than the last one based on genuinely pursuing the things that you want and who you actually wanna be, or you don't. But I think what makes me sad about the idea of college being the best part of someone's life is just so much of that is that the real world sucks. Not living within walking distance of affordable food, affordable usually because you're taking out loans you shouldn't be taking out, but still it's affordable in the moment that you can go and reliably get good food, that you can reliably walk to a bunch of people you love

and have a million things in common with, that you can reliably walk to a library and free resources. There's therapy if you have a breakdown in the student center. There's writing help with your papers. We don't do any of that in the real world. No. There's no help for anybody.

And if there is, it costs fucking money that you don't have. Yeah, it really is. And we especially had such a great college experience, I think, just because we were laughing nonstop. By the time you and I were seniors, we had gotten to the point where the school was coming to us being like,

would you be the ambassadors of a good time at these events? Would you host these things? We were on campus, the go-to guys for a good time, which was awesome. And I like, you know, I hear stories from people's like college experience while I was in school with them and they're like, oh yeah, I was miserable the entire time. And I'm like, that sucks. And I do, that's the other thing is I don't feel

like any sort of superiority that I feel like the best years are still to come for me or that every year is good over people that are like, oh yeah, college was the best time of my life, high school was the best time of my life. That's perfectly fine. I say all the time, it's like, I'm crazy. You know what I mean?

Like, what I want out of my life is crazy. I had crazy goals and things. Some people's goal is to be a junior high football coach and they love their life and I want nothing but happiness for those people, because I can see, it's like, I see how you light up and are passionate about this thing. Doesn't have to be my thing, my thing's crazy.

It's crazy that this kind of worked out, you know what I mean? It's also okay for everyone to not understand each other's things, I just want everyone to be happy, and I want better communities for all of us. I think that's the thing that sucks, is you leave, so many people leave college, and they move off to some fucking city to get a job

and it's hard to make friends. And luckily the thing about comedy that we have, I think all in this room benefited from is these like built in big communities and kind of extenuations of school in a way. We moved to Chicago and immediately got into class. Improv classes. We started a new school. Like we basically started comedy grad school kind of extenuations of school in a way. We moved to Chicago and immediately got into class. Improv classes.

We started a new school. We basically started comedy grad school. And yeah, you meet so many new people and yeah, you're paying for it. I mean, I luckily had like a box office internship where I exchanged labor for improv classes. How fun. Good deal, good deal.

Certainly something a for-profit business should be doing. But it's great for me because I couldn't afford the classes. So yeah, I don't know. We get to continue that kind of community by virtue of this thing that we do, but it's a very specific hobby in that way. I think a lot of other people struggle with that. Yeah, I think so too.

And I don't know, that is, I tell people all the time, even if you're not interested in comedy or whatever, it's like, take an improv class. If you move to a new city, you'll make five new friends. Like bare minimum. I don't know how it is now, honestly. I feel like the improv bubble burst a little bit, and I don't engage with that community

in the same way that I used to. I wonder if they feel the way that we felt, because we felt when we were doing it that we were kind of at the tail end of a good thing, regardless. The party seemed to be ending. We already felt that the we were kind of at the tail end of a good thing, regardless. The party seemed to be ending. We already felt that the party was kind of over with improv and stuff,

and I'm not wondering if they just feel the same way now, and if they'll look back and go, oh, the party's really over now. I wonder if that's just how it is now, that we all think the party's over. Yeah, it's the Tony Soprano thing. It's like, I can't help but feel like I've got into a good thing at the very end.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And I do wonder if that's how everybody felt. I don't know if it is because our era of Chicago comedy specifically, I felt like it was the lowest amount of people getting famous from Chicago. Like you know what I mean? I think so.

Just like as far as like going on to become like movie stars and shit. Cause there were so many. Well we haven't had the time yet. I know, but there's just so many, you look at so many of these different eras and it was like every single person that was on the Second City main stage for 15 years,

for the most part, not every person, but at least one or two people from the Second City main stage for a good decade plus became a household name in some way or another. And I feel like that was something that we were kind of losing there at the end because of the internet. I think the internet kind of took away the allure of like,

oh, the only funny people are people who have cut their teeth in this system in Chicago, so we have to come and watch them, or this system in New York, whatever it is. It's like now they have this whole new sea of talented people that it's like, oh, not only are they proven to be new sea of talented people that it's like, oh, not only are they proven to be funny, they're proven that a massive audience wants to watch them on a screen.

O'Reilly Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, also, it's just so we don't really have mega stars anymore. There are so few mega stars. And there are many people that we come up with in Chicago that are huge on the internet that we don't even know about. I'll sometimes hear someone be like, oh, did you hear about David? And I go, what's going on with David? They

go, oh, he's got 10 million followers on TikTok. He does reviews of sandwiches or whatever. And I go, fuck, I didn't know that. Go David. You know what I mean? Sure, I didn't know that. And that's happened a number of times. But I want to talk a little bit about the podcast. So, tell people your perspective of how this started. Boy, okay, hello people. So you and I had a lunch, and actually let's walk it back even further. Actually, picture this.

So it's a lot of cabin in Missouri. There's a garden of Eden, yeah. January 3rd, 1995, snow billowing down. It was during 2020, you and I, we moved to LA about the same time. You let me put my moving boxes on your truck because I couldn't afford one and you were moving with someone.

Keep in mind, I also couldn't afford one. And Shelby Wollstein was paying the majority of the moving truck cost. And thank you, Shelb. And shout out to Shelby and shout out to her mom. And shout out to her mom. I wish I could have been on that trip because it does sound fun, but I flew to LA.

Anyway, we're in LA, deep pandemic, everything's closed. Caleb and I would do this thing where we, you and I would drive around just kind of aimlessly. That's all there was to do. Yep. And we would drive from the Valley to WeHo to fucking Inglewood. We would just drive the city of LA.

Yep, and just look at the buildings that were closed and be like, that looks like a fun place to visit someday. That looks like we could really have some fun in there. Ooh, I wanna try that restaurant if they make it. God, I hope they make it. Highways are empty. Yeah, highways are empty. We were getting from North Hollywood

to Silver Lake in like seven minutes. Yeah. It was crazy. And there was something, you had started to have successes and things were starting to cook for you a little bit and I was still very much spinning my wheels like career-wise And like just trying to push a rock up a hill and I didn't even know what hill it was And you said you were like I can't wait to figure out what the thing you and I work on together is I don't know what it is yet. I don't think it's a sketch show,

I don't think it's a standup tour. I don't know what it is, but I think it'll be special when we figure it out. And I heard that as, you're gonna have to wait for a while. And I was just like, okay, that's fine. Well, I felt an energy from you, I think, since college that was like, come on, man, why aren't we doing stuff together?

And I did feel like, you know, it worked worked out so maybe I was right but maybe I was wrong who knows but I felt like we just never had the idea yeah I felt like we were going to force it and then we were gonna force something that would make both of us resent each other and I just felt every time we would talk about doing something I was like this is not it yeah we would have the wrong thing the wrong idea and it never felt right and I'm I genuinely I mean obviously now We know I meant it. Yeah, but yeah, so anyway you heard that and we're kind of like fuck this guy No, I did. Yeah, I said fuck this guy. I don't want to be his friend

Twitter videos are dumb Fuck human resources all that stuff. No I No, I heard that and I was like I genuinely do believe like it in the moment I was like, you genuinely do believe, in the moment I was like, I am very impatient, so I was like, no, I want it now, I want it now, let's go pitch something now. But I was also like, I think he might be right, a good thing, let's wait.

Because I'd seen, you'd done projects with friends before, even just small ones in Chicago for no money or whatever, and I'd seen how like rushing into them might not be the best thing, if it's not the good idea, whatever, kind of like what you were saying. So we just kind of remained just friends, no work anything for years. And then something came up to where we were at a lunch

near my house here in LA and we were eating wings and you just got like a wild look in your eye. Hey, folks, if you're eating with me, this man loves his chicken wings. If you're eating with me, there's a 90% chance we're going somewhere that has chicken wings. Just in case I decide I need them. Yeah, what is it about chicken wings that captures you so?

It just works. The whole thing works. They're delicious. They're not impossible to get wrong,'re they're not impossible to get wrong But they're pretty hard to get wrong. Oh, you can trust them from a lot of places My mom worked at bars when I was growing up. Yeah, and she would bring chicken wings home They just are filling and they never upset my stomach, which is so funny I think that's a food that like sometimes does upset people. Oh, yeah, just chicken wings always always always work for me

Yeah, I love them. I love them despite, I cracked a tooth on a chicken wing bone with you. It was the chicken wings you ordered for us after I quit that job after one day. Which we can tell that story later. Getting through the podcast, we were eating these wings and I like this, it's fun. I know I do it sometimes, it is actually really smooth

and fun and playing with the way that the cord is entangled in there. Oh goodness. Oh I'm. Welcome to the couch brother. I am just in a sensor, I am in a bathtubangled in there. Oh, goodness. Welcome. Welcome to the couch, brother. I am just in a sensor, I am in a bathtub of sensory happiness. Yeah, have fun with it.

Yeah. Where was I? Oh, right, the podcast. And you got a wild look in your eye. And you were like, you had your little wing, and you were like... I don't know if I had a wild look in my eye. You had a wild look in your eye, you were touching my hand, and you were like, hey, brother. Now I had a wild look in my eye. You had a wild look in your eye. You were touching my hand and you were like,

hey brother, now this wasn't the scene at all, but because I do, people actually wanna know this. You're like, what do you think it would take if I bought a couple cameras and some mics and some lights stuff? What do you think it would take to make a podcast? And I was like, oh, I know exactly what, and we started just talking logistical things and whatnot.

I was like, maybe we don't have to buy it, we could rent some stuff, I don't know. And I was just like, do you want to do a podcast? Because you've done a podcast before and had stopped and by all accounts, I thought you would never want to do a podcast again. I wasn't sure if I would because I thought with Shelby, with Keeping Records, I thought we had a great formula. Shelby and I had a good rapport. We liked the content. I thought

the Keeping Records, I thought the Golden Records element of it, I still think it was a great frame for a show. I think it was a great idea for a show. I loved it and I liked our guests. I just fell out of love with it and I didn't it didn't do what I needed it to do and partially that's because I didn't put enough into it and also partially I just think like I didn't I wasn't clear on my goals I wanted to I would have quit that podcast to do pretty much anything else. Yeah. Just because I wanted other I wanted to be I wanted what's the word I'm looking for? I wanted like validity from the industry. I wanted like writers rooms and I wanted credits

and I wanted stuff like that. And that was all so much more important to me. And then yeah, freedom became more important to me. And now that's why a podcast makes a lot of sense. But you were saying. Yeah, and that's ultimately what, after that first meeting, you know, I went and I thought up stuff.

And there was a real spark between both of us where it was just like I came over To your house. We had like a long list of like potential names for the show like potential guest pitches We we sat there like I think our first meeting ever outside of the Wing place That's where we came up with like what if we did a true or false segment? What if we did? You know the idea of truth. What could that mean? like like that's so true with Caleb Aaron or or get to the truth, you know, just idea of truth, what could that mean? Like, that's so true with Caleb Heron, or get to the truth, you know, just all this like, this beautiful creative energy between us that I loved,

because I felt like we hadn't had that in so long, and it was like, even in that moment, I was like so happy, even if the show was a success or not, because I was like, oh, we're back. Like, we get to do something again. Like, we used to throw all these shows no one ever saw in Chicago and in college, and, you know, just the bits that are just for us, too.

Like, I felt like we had kind of lost a little bit of that. And so, like, in creating this podcast, and then it got to the point where we were like, oh, shit, we actually have to do this. Like, we signed some stuff, and we've got a studio, and we're gonna actually oh shit, we actually have to do this. Like we signed some stuff and we've got a studio and we're gonna actually go out and we're gonna do this. And we made it. Yeah, it's crazy.

Well, it also was this perfect, like you had this whole love of podcasting and like internet stuff that you had developed these skills, you had gone off and worked for a bunch of YouTubers and you had an actual love for it. I don't have a big love for it. I don't love the internet. I don't care much about YouTube. Like that's just my reality. I don't consider, I don't watch YouTube. I don't think about YouTube. I know my friends who do YouTube and I like their stuff, but

you had this whole, it was this clicking into place of like, I go on other, I was going on other people's podcasts for years and doing great episodes of their show. And they would love it and their fans would like it and they would ask me back and everyone was saying, why don't you have a podcast? And everyone in the whole entire world. And all eight billion people were saying, why don't you have a podcast? Oh, they were cheering their eyes. Everyone's saying, sir, sir, please have a podcast. Oh my God, pounding on the walls of your home.

Please, you're too funny, you're too gay, they will kill you. Oh, you're charming, you're such a conversationalist, oh my God. Sir, please, you're drip too swaggy. Your lips, your lips, you're charming. You're such a conversationalist. Oh my god, please your drip too Swaggy your lips your lips the way they move the algorithm loves it No interesting that you tapped into my lips because that actually is one of my things But but yeah I it was this perfect combination of like something you genuinely loved doing and it's why I asked you and something that I was Interested in and maybe good at and I think I told you when we started,

I was like, dude, I gotta be honest with you, I'm like not cash rich right now. I can pay you like 75 bucks a month. Yeah. And I was like, if the second it makes any money, I will pay you better than that. But I was like, from the outset, I am losing a bunch of money.

And I think I bought you a new laptop. You did. I was like, I'll buy you a new computer because you need one. And I can do that. I can like put that on my credit card. And then I will give you like 75 computer because you need one. And I can do that, I can put that on my credit card. And then I will give you like 75 bucks a month and that's all I can offer.

Luckily for you that didn't last very long. It didn't last very long because I also, little thing about what was going on in my life during that, I had, you're right, so I had like gone off and where I found my way into like a career or like what I call success in this business is working on YouTube channels.

I was in writers rooms for various YouTubers. I got my start with this guy named Rumi, Rumi official on YouTube. He's a Swedish music reviewer basically. I was writing sketches for his ad reads and that spiraled into a bunch of other stuff like Mr. Beast, Airac, Meet Canyon, stuff like that which I'm super proud of and happy with for the most part.

Some of it wasn't great. A lot of it was good though, and it was also fun to be creative and working in something and seeing like, oh, this video that I helped write got 100 million views. That's kinda cool. But it was coming at a point where I had just, one of the writers rooms I was in ended kind of abruptly,

and I had gone back into falling into my like safety net job doing customer service for the second city in Chicago The legendary I was selling improv classes and tickets to improv shows in Chicago from my house in LA. Yeah, and And they fired me they let me go well and they might have been right too, because there was a period, can I say this? Of course. I mean, that job's over. Yeah. There was a period of time there where we were recording the show,

and so Chance would just be like, I need to be at all the records, but I can't take off from my job. And so you would just decline everyone's calls? Yeah, I would. He would decline customer service calls from the records of the podcast. I'd be producing the show from my work laptop

and I would like see a call coming in and I would decline it and then I would like chat to all my coworkers and be like, sorry guys, my internet's down or something. They're like, how could you send this message? And I go, don't ask questions. Don't worry about it, bye bye bye bye bye bye. Nothing bad, nothing bad, all good.

So they might've been right to get rid of you there at the end. Yeah, well and you know, that place is that place and they were very good to me for the time I was there, and then I did kind of unceremoniously get the boot out. Just, you know, it was not a great time because this YouTube job had ended, the podcast was still in its infancy

where I was making no money. The show was making no money, it was so new. You were making no money, I was losing money. You were spending money, yeah, you were hemorrhaging money. And then a bunch of crazy personal stuff was happening too and I was really like, that like, early March 2023, would it have been? 2024?

2024, yeah, I don't know years. 2024 was just such a tumultuous time for me and I was like, this has to work. This podcast thing has to work, because if it doesn't, I truly don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do. And it did. And it is working for now.

It is working for now. It is working for now. What's that mean? I'm not planning on leaving it. Sure. But you never know, you know it's funny, I would have never, if you had asked me one and a

half years ago if I thought I was going to do a podcast, well, coming back into deciding to do a podcast, I went through such a stupid round of, no offense if any of the execs who I talk to are listening, but good fucking God, these people. Some of them are cool and some of them aren't, but they're just so visionless, so many of these people. They're so visionless. And even, I remember there was one podcast exec when I was pitching the idea of me having a show. I was, honestly, and I'm so glad none of it worked out, but I was going out to companies pitching for me to get a minimum guarantee deal, which I had on Keeping Records. We had a very generous minimum guarantee deal from Headgum that they were not recouping on. I'm probably still losing money off that deal. But I was out trying to get a minimum guarantee deal because I

was like, if a podcast can just reliably bring me like $2,000 a month, that's good enough in the background. I can keep working on other creative stuff that pays the rent, whatever, whatever. But I remember one of these meetings, an exec asked me what I thought of the show. And just to give you a scope of the kind of people I was having to chat with, they were like, what do you think of the show? I was like, you know, I wanna talk to like, I will of course talk to some famous people,

but I wanna talk to people I really give a fuck about. I wanna talk to comedians that no one has necessarily heard of. And then I'll, yeah, I'll talk to, you know, and then I mentioned a friend of mine who is quite famous. And I was like, I'll do both. And they were like, really good job on that name drop. Kind of like making fun of me.

And I was like, it's not a name drop. That's a person I'm friends with, you fucking psycho. Yeah, it's Carrot Top. Everybody loves Carrot Top. Also, what you asked me who I'm going to have on the show, and I told you. Right. There was a lot of meetings like that.

And then them being like, yeah, we wouldn't give you a minimum guarantee. We wouldn't do video for you. And I was like, you are risk-averse, cowardly, visionless people that I just don't understand how you're even in business. Yeah, it's the last whispers of old media trying to grasp desperately at the coattails of new media. And I see it all the time. I see these people who it's like,

and they aren't even necessarily like, quote unquote, old people. Like people that are relatively like still young and have a lot of career ahead of them are so short-sighted because they're like, no, the system is this. The system was established in the 20s with the talkies. And this is how a deal works,

and this is how an advertisement works. And it's just like, no fucking moron like more people watch Like a 19 year old boy doing backflips in his room with his phone then watch Saturday Night Live now Yeah, you know what I mean like and people just don't want to believe that it scares them because they're like no no no I sacrifice so much for this specific system And you're telling me that it's all blown up and I have to learn a new one Fuck you and by the way some of the people that we talked that I talked with about the show were cool and got it And it just wasn't the right thing and that's that's nothing against them But there is a there is an element like I most the people that we met with

About me doing this show before I ended up doing it independently with you and then eventually, you know Signing with head gum who gets it more than any of those people do The that they were like it'll never work unless every guest is somebody famous and then eventually signing with Headgum, who gets it more than any of those people do, that they were like, it'll never work unless every guest is somebody famous. And I was like, I think you're wrong, and I think you're boring. And I think that you have no vision, and the fact that the only reason you're allowed to be a gatekeeper in this field is because you have capital. And you have nothing other than that.

And I know you like to tell yourself that you have more than that, that you have taste, and you have all these great... you're breaking people and finding up-and-comers. None of it's true. You have capital and that's it. And that's okay. They can keep having capital. But yeah, the number of people that told us that the show, the way we wanted to do it wouldn't work, is just very funny to me. And it's even funnier now. Well, and I have no idea if this is interesting to anybody, this part, but I find it interesting just because I'm like, I think so many people who listen to our show are creative in some way or on the internet or wondering if they

could do this, that or the other thing. And I'm like, yeah, I am so fucking glad that I didn't get a minimum guarantee deal from some podcast network. And they made offers, by the way. People made offers, but the offers were not appropriate. And I'm glad that I didn't take one of them and just did it myself. And if it's a lesson to anybody who's listening, I'm like, I hope if you're thinking about making something, you'll just go do it. Yeah. And a lot of those offers, not for nothing, we can cut this, wanted me out of it. Yeah, well they sure did. Which, that wasn't fun to hear, but I understand because they hire people to do what I was

doing. Yeah, I told them to fuck off. Yeah, that was part of a couple of the deals, is that they were going to offer a minimum guarantee that was very low, and they were kind of like, we don't need, thank you for your service, Mr. Nichols. Right. Yeah, you can be on your way.

Yeah. Well. Which we didn't do. I know. I'm open to it. You're open to... Yeah, if any of those companies want to circle back with a bigger number, chance is still

on the chopping block. Oh, good. Yeah. Good. Okay. I've got a lot of transferable skills now. Yeah. You know what I mean?

I can't. That's why I don't feel bad about it. You'll be fine. Oh, good. Good. Thank you. Yeah, you'll land on your feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm going to go do a podcast about theme parks in Branson, Missouri. I think about this all the time. When I fire you, you're gonna be fine. Sure. Because you've learned so much, it's like I've given you a gift of letting you learn so much and make a living on this show

up until the point that you get fired. You're gonna be fine when I let you go. Yeah, will you say nice things about me to people? Like will you give me a kind word in the street? Genuinely, yes. Wow, really? Yeah, I'll call everybody and say, this guy, you know.

Yeah, say, okay, go ahead, do one. Chance, I'm being dead serious. When I fire you soon, I am going to call everyone who works in town that you want me to. You tell me you're up for a job at I Heart. You tell me you're up for a job at I Heart. I'm going to call the folks at I Heart and I'm gonna say, Chance Nichols, you know? He brings dollars. That's, I say that guy, and stuff like that, and I'm happy to do that.

Is there any specifics you'd like to go into just so I can know, like, when I have my big meeting, it's like, this is what they know about me, this is how they know, yeah. Oh, I'm gonna call him, I'm gonna say, Chance is one of the guys. Like, he, like, he does it. I'm gonna say chance is one of the guys like yeah like he Does it yeah? He he eats. He has all the big dinners He he gets all the big coffees with all the right movers and shakers Well, you know it's like a dinner culture here in LA people love to go to I want to call on you for that But it really is a dinner culture

I want to call you for that for the bit, but LA is a dinner culture mm-hmm! I wanna clown you for that for the bit, but LA is a dinner culture. And I'm at them. It's a patio dinner culture. I'm at dinner. Yeah. I'm sitting at the Tameau Shantor, having some burnt ends.

You lost it. You don't like Tameau Shantor. I do, but that's not what the people, you have to pick, if you wanted to talk about an LA dinner culture, you have to pick a place that has a patio positioned on a busy enough street that everyone can be seen. You have to go to, you have to have dinner at Safi's. Because here's the thing about Safi's though, most people are going there because I think that they want to be seen. I'm going there because they have a lobster skewer that's

transcendent. And they had a crab fritter for a while that genuinely changed my life. Food there actually quite good. But yeah, you have to go to Angelini Osterio or whatever the fuck. So that you can be seen dining on the sidewalk in Fairfax. And when I do that, you know, when after a long illustrious career here on this show, when it comes to an end, that I'm sure I'll be consulted on,

there'll be like a grace period and it'll be like a peaceful transition. I think the next step for me is I'd really like to direct and develop reality television. Is that true? No. Okay. I was like, I'm about to be so mean to you.

I was like, let me know if I should be so mean to you right now. I've been watching so much of it. I know you don't particularly care for most reality TV, but I've fallen into below deck. Have you heard about below deck? Yeah. Okay, do you have any questions for me about it?

No, I don't have any questions. I think, look, we've entered this era over the last couple of years where people have decided that it's like a swinging thing where people have decided actually liking trash is high culture. And I just, I'm not buying it. Sure. I don't think that liking trash is high culture. Well I just, I'm not buying it. Sure. I don't think that liking trash is high culture.

Well, Below Deck isn't trash. It's super yachts. It's wealthy people going on vacation. It's wealthy trash having dinner on a boat. And that's the Ozarks. That's the Ozarks, baby. And I know all about that. I love that. No, I just don't, it's no judgment, but I just, the resurgence in reality TV in general and people going, oh, actually, it's actually really, it I just a reality the the resurgence in reality TV in general and people going oh actually It's actually really it's actually about conflict, and it's actually about resolutions and communication styles. Yeah It's actually three bitchy women fighting over drinks. Yeah, and that's okay three bitchy women can be very fascinating It's true, but let's not pretend that it's something more than what it is. Yeah, I don't think one thousand pound sisters is high art

No, I think that's like I think that's like the grotesquerie. I think the fat shows, the hoarder shows, it's all, it's like sideshow at the carnival type shit. It's very base. Oh yeah, and they try to package it as like, no, that's not what this is about. It's about a beautiful family. And it's like, why are you calling the show

the amount that these people weigh? Yeah, the show's not called Beautiful Family, I'll tell you that. It's called Big Fat Bitch Who Can't Get Out of Bed. Yeah, and it is, when you watch these shows, it is like, I can't believe they agreed to be filmed in this moment, this very personal moment that's happening. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me.

But, blow deck, huh? Yeah, it's fun, it's just like, you know, it's a job, it's people working on a yacht, it's like hot, hot like boat people that want their career to be boat, just going up to each other and like kissing. Hot boat people. It's like a hot boat boy and a hot boat girl, they're both like, one is like a steward,

the other one is like a deck hand, and he's Scottish and he's like, right, you want the folk, and she's like, oh my God, I'm from California and they they have sex they have beautiful sex and they and they don't show any of it obviously this is Bravo But you see you hear it you hear it like in the other room you hear like the Like the goose like the squeals and the the sex happening elsewhere And it's magical because then you cuts to the captain and he's on Duolingo trying to learn his girlfriend's language.

Here you okay I do think do you know how often when I'm having sex that I think about how cool it is? Yeah. I can't imagine how cool it must feel when hot people do it. Could you yeah. When like conventionally hot like 23 year olds both find each other and they fuck I can't imagine how cool they feel. No. I feel cool doing my thing. Oh, yeah. Every time I get laid there is at least some point during the minute middle of it that I go God this is neat. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What a treat is this? Sometimes I'll do this move. I'll be like Tadah! Ew! Ew, you like crack your neck? Yeah, like a little readjust like, pfft.

Chance! Ew, Virginia's hiding her face. It's fun. Ew! I'm not ashamed of it. Oh, good night, that made me ew. Yeah, well, you know. Ew!

It's like, ew! Different strokes for different folks, as well. The idea of you having sex and going AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Like a pilot that just landed a plane Virginia is cowering in the corner right now Yeah, yeah, yeah Oh God no

This is what happens when I'm on this side of the camera Things get steamy KC we gotta get some windshield wipers for these lenses God My God the crowds roaring there There's, there's about 50, 30,000 people in here. Oh man. That made my stomach turn. Imagine how I feel. But yeah, the idea of having sex every time makes me feel pretty neat. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by Alma. Alma's on a mission to simplify access to high quality, affordable

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The first time I ever felt maybe cool in my entire life, it was my freshman year of high school and it was the homecoming dance. And I hadn't even heard of grinding or freaking as they, as that's one version of it and this was 2009-2010 school year folks were grinding and going nuts and me and my little freshman football friends we came to the dance and a group of sophomore volleyball players descended on us and they started doing like the like the

sexy grind dancing and me and my friend turned to each other and we were just like, our faces were lit up and we high-fived. We high-fived whilst dancing on this dance floor to like down or something like that. Baby are you down down down down down down. Yeah. Great song. And we high-fived. I don't think you liked my description of me feeling cool It's hard to

care It's hard to care about because you have to understand what you're asking me to get excited by sure And I'm feeling so happy to have you on the show right now because with a normal guest I'd have to like feign interest in that to have you on the show right now because with a normal guest I'd have to like feign interest in that. What you're asking me to care about is two freshmen and high school boys getting grinded on by volleyball sophomores and high-fiving each other about it. It is kind of antithetical to anything I would ever care about. But course. I'm happy that you felt cool Yeah, and I thank you for sharing and bringing your truth to the show in many ways

Yes, but yeah if you're clocking and disinterested me it is just because that's the kind of thing I've spent my whole life actively not caring about how many tapout shirts. Do you think I owned I Struggled to imagine I got the number in my head would you like to guess? I struggle to imagine I got the number in my head. Would you like to guess? Well, you guys were poor. Yes, so I'm gonna start there and I know at least a couple of them you cut off for Two a days in football. That's absolutely right I'm thinking tapout shirts for chance in high school Nixon, Missouri 2009 2010 shout-out Eagles go Eegs. I'm thinking you must have had

14 of them that's that's a little high I had nine see I 14 I was like I felt that 20 would be crazy on the money spectrum right and I'm still a lot It is a lot, but I did there was a There was a store in the battlefield mall in Springfield, Missouri That was half a MMA apparel store and half a hookah store. And it was ran by a guy that went to the same, I went to an MMA gym for like five years.

And this guy ran it and he gave me discounts on everything. It was all second and third run tap-outs up. This is when tap-out was really popular. And I loved wearing it. I thought it was so cool until I had somebody tell me, oh, it was my youth pastor. My youth pastor told me, do you know what I see when I see you wearing that shirt?

And I go, no, what? He goes, I see a guy that's asking the world, hey, fight me. And I don't think that's you. And I was like, you're right. That's weirdly helpful and poignant. Yeah. Nice of the youth pastor to bring that up.

It was really nice of him. Shout out. And I kind of stopped wearing them after that. And I think history will show that I was correct to stop wearing tap-out shirts. I want to mold some young people. You do? I want to mold some young people directly like that.

What kind? I just feel, you know, my little cousins, I'm leaving my mark on them. I'm getting my little thoughts into their head. Yeah. You know, they say things sometimes and I go, you know, when you say things like that, I don't think it sounds very nice. Or I get to say, you know, they're not mean kids though, but I get to say little ideas for them.

I get to tell them little things I think about the world. I think that they probably will grow up and have a moment like this where they say, you know, my cool older cousin once told me this thing and it fucking changed the way I think about things. And I probably won't know what those things are until later in life, if ever. But I'd like to mold some of the youth.

Have you had a moment where you're looking at, like, it doesn't even have to be your cousins because they're quite young, but even like just a younger person and you say something you see in their eyes they're going to remember this for the rest of their life. I don't know. Okay. I talk to a lot of people that are, a lot of people I talk to that are come up and say they're like fans of the show or whatever.

They're quite a bit younger than me. Yeah. A lot of 21 year olds. Okay. And I will sometimes be interacting with them and think you are not accustomed to talking to an adult. Right. You know? Like I will say something, I will say something not mean but like assured and confident.

Yeah. And honest. Yeah. You know, they'll be like, they'll be like, sorry, I hate to be weird. And I'm like, and yet you are. Right. they'll be like they'll be like sorry I I hate to be weird and I'm like and yet you are right, you know, and I'm kidding But there's so they're so shaken by that. Yeah, I'm like, oh fuck. I forgot you're like a child. Yeah, that is funny I love whenever you get recognized and I'm around because I fall into this thing where I just start smiling This time like what's true is I'm like god damn it. We're late for lunch or whatever it is

And it's like they're always so sweet. We've never had at least when I'm with what's true is I'm like god damn it we're late for lunch or whatever it is and it's like they're always so sweet We've never had at least when I'm with you like somebody I'm like whoa this like back the fuck off They're always very sweet very gracious, and I always just stand there and go I'm just like smiling and when they leave I say out loud. Thank you. Yeah, you too. I don't know why I just go Thank you Thanks guys. Thank you grab my forum guide me away. You just got to meet your favorite comedian. Thank you, talk soon. God, I had a bad one recently.

I was walking into Skylight Books in Los Feliz and this dumb straight buffoon just yelled, sorry he was. It was me. He just yelled over to me from like five feet away. He goes, aren't you that funny guy? Oh fuck. And I without looking at him and not breaking my gate I just went, if you say so, and kept walking.

What is that? Aren't you that funny guy? Oh my god. That's so useless, you don't even know who I am and you're bothering me? Just like you're walking down the street someone just points, TikTok! Basically.

It's TikTok, look at me! It's basically that where I'm like, you don't even know who I am, there's nothing, there's no reason you should need to say anything to me, right? If you had been like if you if you had been like oh my god, I love your stuff I could I take a picture I'd been like, of course, but aren't you that funny guy? Go to prison dance for me clown dance con. Yeah, that is so But that's your guys's culture. It is. We love

to call people out. We love to shout. We love to... What do you think we're gonna do about men? Let me take this opportunity. You're a straight guy. You're a straight guy. One of the straightest I know. Oh, hell yeah. Okay. And aside from kind of your tastes, the musical theater throws a real curveball in there. But you're a straight guy, and you're around a lot of straight guys, and we're from the same part of the country. What are we going to do about y'all? I think exposure therapy is the number one thing that could fix these boys, our men and boys.

I think so much of the nastiness and the bad energy, the bad takes, the bad outfits, all these things, all stems from the fact that they've never met another person that's different from them. You know what I mean? I was so fortunate to, like you said, the musical theater of it all, doing theater growing up and whatnot and meeting gay people, meeting lesbians,

meeting people who even back then were like, I don't know about my gender. Just engaging with that as normalcy fixed a lot of the weird prejudices that I, I came, like my factory settings were like, what's going on? Oh no, that's not normal. This is gonna be on the news. You know, like whatever.

Yeah, you effectively, you effectively like final destinationed your way out of becoming the guy you were destined to become. That's correct. You were supposed to be like a Trump supporting deadbeat dad in Missouri. Yeah. And I think my, I also have that within me.

Yeah. And what happened to me was that I'm gay. Right. So that just took me a whole other direction. Yeah. But was it theater for you? I think it was theater. I think just like, that's the thing is,

I think it was, Pete Holmes said this on his podcast about his mom. His mom was saying something about like, oh, I don't know this about gay people, whatever. And Pete was like, mom, you've never met a gay person like that you know of. Like you've never met an out gay person. Why do you have this perspective on them?

And like, well, I just, what I TV. Well, like some people's worldview is so crafted by these like Outlets that have an agenda and whatnot and as soon as there was a stretch there for like almost a decade where I didn't not Live with a gay person the entire time. I had gay roommates most of my 20s Yeah, and let me tell you were one of them and there have been other ones that varying degrees of loud in the bedroom and you it sounds like you fellas are having a good time in there and and I there are a couple times I gave a couple couple taps on the wall like hey good good work there's just two guys in there

going Virginia has covered her face once more. It's two guys in there going, oh. Chance and I got on this really funny kick on tour where we were being like, just doing some kind of gotcha moment. Just being like, if your mother says so, oh. That guy, that guy has like a Mobster yeah, yeah, but chance stop fucking around. Okay. Why did you turn out to be? One of the one of the straight guys who's down for the cause

What are we going to do to our men and boys to make them more like you I? Think I in some ways I had a good I had good family members I have some bad family members, but I have some good family members that were very pivotal to just like Me understanding because I've been like this my entire life. I've been like fucking Like like yeah that sort of thing which you hate and and I'm sure the audience will now learn to hate But I've just learned that sort of thing, which you hate, and I'm sure the audience will now learn to hate. But I've just.

Learn to hate. You're all gonna learn to hate me by the end of this. But I've just always had kind of a high RPM that I do stifle whenever I'm behind the cameras for this, where I'm just like, nope, that's not what my role is. My role is to laugh and take notes. But I was always so wild and rambunctious and stuff, I was not easy to be around as a child.

I would recite whole episodes of SpongeBob from memory to people. People thought I was annoying. Kids, teachers thought I was annoying. The community could only agree that I was a nuisance. That's correct. I was, you know, and I found early, early on in my life, a lot of the kids that were nice to me

ended up being queer kids later on. And they were very much, they probably didn't even know, obviously in elementary school what that meant, they didn't have language for it. They were just like, I don't know, I think they saw in me somebody who also was like, people were kind of looking down their noses at, and I was getting sad because it was like,

I'm just being myself. You don't like the Tasmanian devil in your second grade classroom? What's wrong? And these kids would just kind's like, I'm just being myself. You don't like the Tasmanian devil in your second grade classroom, what's wrong? And these kids would just kind of like, there was a lot of my recesses were walking around collecting rocks. You know what I mean? Like walking around with a kid

who is now happily married to another man and we would just collect rocks and talk about, I think Dragon Ball Z is about more than just the violence. And I think that's part of it is just like feeling a bit like an outcast, which is so lame for me to say as a straight white man, but like as a child, everybody is so nervous and scared of what people think of them in school, especially their friends, the cool kids, and all that stuff. So a lot of it started there. And then honestly, it grew into having,

I had a really great teacher, I had two great teachers in high school, Miss Fleetwood and Mr. Townsend. They were the two theater teachers. And this was my, I think freshman year of high school. We were having some sort of spirited political debate in the class, and I still thought I was Republican at that point, even though almost none of my beliefs

really aligned with that stuff. And I was like, something, something, something, someone said something, and I was like, well, as a Republican, I think I can say, hilarious, and Mr. Townsend, he just goes, ha! And I go, what? And he's like, you're not a Republican? I was like, what do you mean, yes I am.

That's how I feel. He goes, you don't have enough money to be a Republican. King. King. Fuck. I think he's right. King. And that was the first time I like cross-examined myself

in that way, I was like, you know what? What do I believe in? And what I came to, and I think this may be a piece of advice for our men and our boys, is just learn how to be like, oh, okay, as simple as that. Just be able to be like, oh, okay, cool, to most people's things.

When most people come to you and are like, this is who I am, this is what I'm about, this is how I identify, whatever it is, instead of your first instinct being, what, what, no, I can't be. Why different, why different, why different? That's not how this day is supposed to go Why am I being confronted with change and a child just go oh, okay cool?

What kind of music do you like you know what I mean like the most interesting thing about a person? I believe is Not like what they're you know what they prefer in the bedroom what they want to like get married to all these things I think it's a beautiful piece of your identity and I love that about you, but I've never been this person that's like, because you feel this way or because this is how you identify

or what you wanna do, that isn't a front to how I feel and I don't want any part of it. I don't like that. I feel that way about straight people. You do. Well, you keep me around. I have several straights in my life.

It's hard. I keep them around mostly as an experiment, and also I'll need somewhere to hide probably pretty soon. I think I'm hoping that their house will have some sort of basement or something. I'm a warm embrace. Pardon? I'm like an island in a storm.

What? I wanna push you around. Oh I will, oh I will. You knew how to get me. You knew how to get me. Put a little matchbox on. I'll protect you when it all comes apart, but you think you can beat me up. I know that I can beat you up.

That's crazy. Yeah. How would you do it? I would come right at you and put my arms around you and throw both of us to the ground Uh-huh, and then I would stay on top you and elbow you in the head until you die That is a really great strategy and what you should do what you don't know is I'm pretty quick and I will sidestep You're not quick enough

I'm kicking that your kneecap out and blowing out your knee and then you're gonna go to the ground and I'm gonna do the same I'm just gonna elbow until you I won't kill you from on the ground. I'm just gonna elbow until you, I won't kill you. From on the ground, I'm grabbing your leg, biting it very hard and breaking the skin, probably taking a chunk out. And then when you're screaming in pain, I'm punching your other knee into the wrong direction. And then you fall down, I'm rolling over on top of you, and I'm elbowing you in the head until you die.

Okay, that's awesome. Well, while you're biting my leg, I'm getting rock hard, and I'm getting excited. And I go, you my leg, I'm getting rock hard and I'm getting excited and I go you know what? I've got a level of adrenaline right now that yeah And I know that's weird to say but you know what maybe biting does it for me And this is something that we're all learning about me right now, and I've got a kick of adrenaline I'm I bite Jensen is like he goes Well, I'm doing one of these I'm wrapping around I'm wrapping around your wrapping around your waist and we're both going for a ride.

I'm suplexing you over my shoulder through a glass coffee table. I'm taking your shirt from the back and I'm pulling it over your face so you can't see. And I'm throwing haymakers up under the shirt, destroying your face until you die. And then I'm throwing you on the ground and if you're not dead yet, I'm throwing haymakers up under the shirt destroying your face until you die And then I'm throwing you on the ground and if you're not dead yet, I'm kneeling on your chest over and over again I'm doing like this and I'm like throwing knees into your chest and you're going please sir Stop stop stop stop, and then I'm elbowing you in the head some more. You know what I'm doing in that I'm not saying no, please sir. Stop. I'm like grab. I'm like trying to grab at you I'm like gently touching didn't like front of the legs trying to grab at your wrists. I'm like grab. I'm like trying to grab at you. I'm like gently touching didn't like front of the legs trying to grab at your wrists I'm pathetic. I'm like clearly defeated and I'm going

And all the all the while I'm grabbing a brick and I'm gonna smash your temple in and I win. We're doing the true or false segment. I think it's pretty clear that most of that's getting cut. All right, you ready? Oh, is this, oh, yes. Chance. Yes. I'm gonna read you, I'm doing things in a little

lot of order to keep you on your toes. Oh fuck. I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You things a little out of order to keep you on your toes fuck I'm gonna read you 15 statements. Mm-hmm You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think that what I just said is true or false If you get ten or more correct you get to keep your job Wow if you get fewer than ten correct uh-huh this will be your final week of employment with the show Okay, let's do it the tattoo on John w's back is Fortis Fortuna Adiovat. Can't say it right.

True? That is true. Cats have more bones than humans. False. True. They have 250, we have 206. Most deaf was originally supposed to play Al Pacino in the film Tropic Thunder. True.

That is true. catfish have scales False false they have smooth barbel covered skin. I love barbel the largest recorded tonight tornado by width touchdown in Joplin, Missouri No, it was a big one, but the largest ever True it's false. It was in Oklahoma Jack of Jack Daniels is short for Jasper true. That is true Quick trip has locations in 17 states True that is true Buffalo Wild Wings was founded in 1979 true false 1982 your first date with Kara was at the Wil Hoyt Theatre

Your first date with your long term girlfriend Kara was at the Will Hoyt Theater. So this is whoever, Virginia thank you so much for this level of specificity. I have a note because that is technically false. Oh we don't need notes. It's false. It is false. Okay good okay. It was at the AMC.

That's right. And you saw four movies and it was your birthday. We met It's at the AMC. That's right. Okay. And you saw four movies and it was your birthday. We met at the Will Hoyt, and yes, that's true. Nixon, Missouri's city flag was updated in 2023. True. True. The dogwood is the state tree of Virginia.

False. True. Also Missouri. What? Nelly, the St. Louis rapper's legal name is Cornell Haynes. True. That is true. Your girlfriend, Kara's astrological sign is Pisces.

False. False, it's... Cancer? Yeah. Jim Carrey is a U.S. citizen. I mean, he's from Canada, but true? It is true, he has dual citizenship since 2004. Wow.

Missouri State is older than Mizzou. False. False. It is is older than Mizzou. False. False. It is false. How do you do? Love it. Wow. I get, you hear that mama?

I get to keep my job. That sucks, I really wanted to fire you. Why? I just thought it'd be interesting for the plot. What's so true to you Chance Nichols? What's so true to me? God, I have to think about it for a while. No, I know.

No chance you haven't been losing sleep over this for a week and a half. You're right. And just, yeah, no, my's so true. What do you think about anti-anxiety medication? This is what you asked me, Caleb asked me, we were at an Arby's, no, it was a Carl's Jr. in Vancouver, on the road from Vancouver or something,

and I was just sitting there kind of sweating, and he was like, have you ever thought about taking medication? I also asked it to you in a hotel room in Portland. You did. I've been bringing it up a lot, you might notice. You have, I'll think about it. But what's your so true?

You know what's so true to me? People who walk their dogs off leash in public, like on a public street, are going to hell when they die. Yeah, and hell's real when they're going. That's right. Hell's real and they are going. Speak of that. I don't care about, if it's a dog park,

obviously have the dog off a leash. If it's a regular park and your dog's well behaved and you wanna play fetch or whatever, let it roam around, that's a different thing. This comes from a personal experience of mine. When we were living in Chicago, I was walking down Broadway in Lakeview and just some asshole had his dog off leash

walking down on the sidewalk and another dog across the way sitting at an outdoor, like on the patio of an outdoor cafe, started barking and freaking out because they saw that dog and the unleashed dog started barking too and the owner's like, no, no, no. Unleashed dog runs across the street, gets hit by a bus. And that could have all been avoided if you had simply gone and clipped your dog to it. Who are you impressing? Who is this for

that your dog is off leash? Do you think people are turning and going, holy shit, that person must be a really strict trainer. Oh my God, this is incredible incredible. Wow what a man. What a woman. Sorry sorry. Virginia hit her face again. It really just starts to happen. Virginia hit her face again. But I'm just like what to what end what are you getting out of this that your dog that you are making it unsafe for yourself your animal and others. Yeah I don't get it. Also if your dog doesn't get to go everywhere I'm sorry. Yeah. Your dog does not get to go everywhere, your dog does not belong at this cafe, take that fucking dog home. Your dog does not... By the way, I say this sometimes when people act like I hate dogs. I'm a dog lover. I love dogs. They do not need to be at dinner.

And by the way, it's fucked up that people get their non-service animals registered as service animals. That is fucked up and weird and the fact that we act like it's not strange is really bizarre to me. It's very weird, it's ableist, like it's crazy. It's ableist and it's trivializing people who actually need it, and I'm not even like that. Like I'm not even like living out like that, but it is weird that people have just been like,

oh yeah, it's cool to trivialize people who actually need service animals so you can bring your dog to dinner because you like hanging out with him. I can't believe people are getting away with that. Me neither, and that's the thing is, service animal dogs, they're at work. They are trained to just sit there and do their job. Your shaky little fucking falling apart chihuahua that screams anytime it's looked at should not

be at this coffee shop. You know how when you're getting on a plane, there's a little thing that says if your bag doesn't fit in this, you can't bring it on? They should have that at every establishment that allows dogs Yes, if your dog doesn't fit in this thing it needs to go home You can't have a Newfoundland at the at the coffee shop your Doberman does not belong at brunch. No send him home That's right. If you can't bear to be away from him you stay home with him. That's right Keep your ass out of public as well Yeah

and my search my thing about the leash thing that comes from a place as an animal lover. Like as somebody, I'm like, we have a responsibility to these creatures that we have decided to pair our life with to keep them safe. And part of that is keeping them on a fucking leash whenever they're out in the human world that is designed for people who have a concept of, oh, don't cross the street at any, you know what I mean? Don't run in front of the bus.

Yeah, it's like have your dog roam free in safe areas. I'm talking, it's like when I see it, it's very rare, I don't love conflict that much, but it's one of those things where when I see it, I'll look at a person, I'll go, what the fuck? And they'll be, oh, what, why isn't your dog's leash on? And they'll just be like, oh, just fuck off. And they'll kind of wander away.

I've only done it one time. You're hearing an example of, oh, fuck off. Oh, fuck off. Yeah. That's a beautiful chance. You think so? I really, really do. Oh, do you have any other questions for me?

I'm on board with your So True. I asked you what's So True, I did True or False. I guess is there anything that we didn't get to that you're dying to have in your episode? Really? Anything you want to tell the people? Hey, guys. I see the comments and I like them. I think you guys are doing an amazing job.

Keep being kind to me. Keep second guessing my true or false questions. All you want. I know I'm right and that's all that matters, but I do love you all. You all have given me, you and you and and You all have given me You and you and Casey everybody has given me an incredible life that I'm very happy And a lot of it is to do with you all the fans the truthers the celebrities the

Chalasbians the chancers now there are chancers and we are strong and we are growing and You know when I launch my podcast that I've been working on and thinking of, I hope that you'll all come and listen. I hope that you guys will too. The Chancers can go listen to Chance's podcast. Caleb's going to be on it every week. And if you're a doctor who prescribes anxiety medication and you had a client who was pretty anxious but was worried about pills, maybe just reach out in the DMs

to the show page and let us know what you think. If you wanna mail me a bag of pills, go ahead. No, we're not gonna mail Chance a bag of pills. I thought that's what you were asking for. Who's your dream guest to have on So True? My dream guest to have on So True. Like the number one person in the world that you're like,

if they could be on So True, it would just do everything to me. Maybe the Chancers and K-Liber celebrities can rally and start tagging this person. Oh my god Hmm my number one person for you for you for me for me for you Prop it's a tie between it's one media person and one football player it either be Will Ferrell I would love to get Will Ferrell on here. I'd love to chat with him. Or Patrick Holmes.

I'd love to get Pat in here, chop it up about Texas, do all that good stuff. And I think we could. I doubt that Pat will come on the show. Will Ferrell feels like a much safer bet. Yeah, maybe Travis, Travis Kelce. Travis seems, we have more Travis is way cooler than Pat. Let's be honest

Travis is way cooler than I love him to death. He is many seasons has been a great football player has made my city much cooler His wife's politics make me think that he might not be so cool I don't know Pat you're gonna have to start speaking up if you don't want people to think these things brother Your weird wife is running, shooting her fucking mouth off all the time. Being pro-Trump, it makes me think that maybe you're cool with it, dog. So to Patrick Mahomes, I would say, hey, love you to death, brother. Thank you for what you do. I'm very concerned about your private beliefs about the world. And Travis, I don't have those concerns. I think Travis is above board. I love the whole Kelsey family. Shout

out, Kylie. Love your podcast. Shout out, Jason. You seem cool as concerns. I think Travis is aboveboard. I love the whole Kelsey family. Shout out Kylie Love your podcast shout out Jason. You seem cool as fuck. I think they're doing things a little different over there and frankly Shout out Taylor as well They also love to have Uma Thurman. All right. Thank you so much chance. This was beautiful Hey, I'm Tony Hale I'm Matt Matt Oberg. And I'm Kristin Schall. And we're going to be hosting the new podcast, The Extraordinarians, where we are going to be interviewing extraordinary people, doing extraordinary things, things that we have never and probably will never do.

We talk to people who have broken records on slacklines suspended by hot air balloons. Yep. We're talking to people who have done multiple flips on trampolines. You'll have to tune in to find out how many flips they did. Subscribe to Extraordinarians on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts and watch me.

God. In three. Watch it on the YouTube. There's new episodes that we release in every Wednesday. We do. I've never seen you cry before. I know. I don't know how I feel about that.

This is upsetting for all of us. They don't let us break for lunch. They do. This podcast is so competitive, they make you just talk and talk. Guys, we're watching a spin out. Please subscribe. Oh man. Extraordinarians.