So True with Caleb Hearon - Ego Nwodim is a Giver

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Ego Nwodim! Ego and Caleb talk being the child of immigrants, the state of how people interact with their favorite entertainers, how a simple word can be the hottest thing in the world, SNL, and much more! Join our Patreon for an exclusive post-episode chat with Caleb and Chance and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow Ego! @eggyboom  Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloudWarby Parker has over 300+ locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to www.warbyparker.com/SOTRUE right now to try on any pair virtually! There’s no replacement for human connection. Better with people. Better with Alma. Visit www.helloalma.com/SOTRUE to get started and schedule a free consultation today. About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a headgum podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Alma. Amma's on a mission to simplify access to high quality, affordable mental health care. Alma has built a community of over 20,000 diverse therapists. Therapists on the platform offer both in-person and virtual care. While online tools and resources can be a useful starting point or supplement, human relationships are irreplaceable part of mental health care. Alma can help you find someone who will work with you on your specific needs and goals

and support you in making real progress and improving your mental health. Excuse me, sorry. Cut it. No, leave it. Alma also makes things real simple to find a therapist. Some people turn to impersonal online resources like forums or chatbots because they think finding a therapist is expensive and difficult.

Hey, if you're turning to chatbots about your mental health, definitely calm. The directory makes it easy to find therapists to take your insurance and meet your unique needs with filters like gender, race, therapeutic approach, and more. Know the cost of your sessions up front using Alma's cost estimator tool.

At Alma, 97% of therapists accept insurance, including some of my faves, United, Aetna, Signa, all the big ones, and more. Better with people, better with Alma. Visit helloalama.com slash so true to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's hello-a-m-a-com slash S-O-T-R-U-E. when we implement their plan

90% of people have a worse life than they could when we implement my plan they're still okay okay so Caleb for president let's give it hello he's running

there you go Caleb I got hair in my mouth hey honey we have to talk we have to talk honey I've been meaning to talk to you we have to talk we have some shit to

we have to talk okay Tell me what's going on with you. Where do we even begin? What's happening with me is that I'm, it's summer. Yes. I love me some summer, okay? And I know that sounds like basic bitchery, top tier basic bitchery. But I love summer and I feel like I haven't got a handle on this one.

Yeah. And that's actually going to go ahead and be stressing me out. Champagne problems. It's what my mother immigrated to this country for so that I could be stressed about how fun my summer is. She sort of uprooted from Nigeria. Yes. And came to Baltimore. to let you be stressed out by being a star.

Precisely, yes. She said, they go, we're going to work on something. We're going to cook. We're going to cook. I'm going to set you up so well that your issue is, my summer doesn't feel fun enough. I haven't even been to the Maldives. I haven't touched the Maldives since last quarter.

I'm going to go ahead and say, my girl, meaning my mother has done a fantastic job. Yeah, she sure has. But that is, I'm truly like, I got to do something this summer. I have to do something. What have you been up to this summer? Baby, let me tell you. Tell me.

Because here's what happened. Okay. And Chance can verify. We went on tour at the beginning of this year. A very, very fun, very exciting, stressful tour. Yeah. And the entire tour, I was telling myself, I am fucking off this summer. Come hell or high water, baby.

Okay, okay. I am going to Europe. Okay. I am renting a place that is frankly irresponsible. Like, yes. I am buying a flight that you couldn't even begin to justify. Energy. I am spending money like you wouldn't believe is what I am.

I said to myself about this summer. And do you know what I've done this summer? You ain't do none of that shit. Work. I am podcasting on Sundays. You didn't do none one of those things on that list. Mary, a beach has been touched. And that's what, you know what?

That's kind of like what life is. Truly, you make plans. God giggles. God laughs. I was about to say we make plans and what does God do. He goes, he's going to go ahead and laugh at that ass. He's chuckling in heaven. He's chuckling.

And so he, she, they, whatever. Who cares? It doesn't actually even. matter. It doesn't matter to me. Frankly. Calling God, he, him, to me is actually I'm being funny. I'm like, I don't actually care. I don't think he's got one of those. What a bit. Yeah, I'm like, he doesn't have that. Yeah. Not worried about gendering God. He's the way I call people brother. I'm like, I'm kidding. I feel like you call me brother. I've called you brother. I've called me brother and I use

sister. Yeah. Anyway, that's honestly, that's what's top of mind. Today I'm going to go have a little like summer something. I'm going to go somewhere and do something summary. my life my life depends on it and it might and it might and so anyway that's honestly Caleb that's everything and so it was so good to see you today and come on the pot this was a lot of fun this was a lot of fun honey you have fun out there thank you so much for having me thank you chance thank you you you're stronger than me because you know what I'm going to be doing tonight is go to bed at 6 p.m because you and I are filming a movie together right now we are filming a movie and we are up early we're up early my pickup time is 415 a.m. we're up mind you I normally go to bed at like

3.45. 3.45. I'm going to be on 30 minutes. Yeah. Not even. I'm going to be, well, no, not even through. I'll get 15 minutes of sleep and I'm going to have an attitude tomorrow.

Yeah. No, I normally go to bed at midnight-ish. Same. And so I'm, we were talking about this, training our bodies to wake up early tomorrow and get, I'm hell bent on getting eight hours of sleep. Yeah. If I have to take all kinds of potions and such to fall asleep at 8 p.m. tonight. Oh, I'll be drugged out. I'm going to be drugged out.

I'm going to be drugged out. When I tell you Benadryl popping, a little edible. A little edible, a little Benadryl. I'm talking to some warm tea about it. Oh yeah, I'm getting sleepy time tea. I called my mom and I haven't been able to fall asleep but she was like, have you tried sleepy time tea? And I was like, you know what?

I do have that in the cabinet. Sometimes you need to get back to the basics. You and I are, okay, can I just say how crazy? Already in this conversation and multiple times while we've been doing this movie, I will be seconds away from saying something and you will identically say, about what I'm about to say. It's crazy because also our characters are so, like, besty, energy, chaotic. And someone asked, did you hear that someone asked on Friday if we worked together before?

That's how much the chemistry is chemistrying. They think we've been doing this. And when I tell you, we haven't. We have not. When I tell you, this is brand new. Caleb and I met. Over one hot dog. Over one hot dog in Kansas City, Missouri.

Yes. And that was that. And now we're working together. and the chemistry is I told like you said it to me in Kansas City kindred spirits of sorts you like called it early you had to have thought I was crazy because I want to say I met ego I met you I want to say 10 minutes into the conversation I looked into your eyes and I said we were meant to meet I think so but here's the thing is I'm the same kind of crazy it will say shit to people like this God put us here yeah God put us here and they go okay I mean no I was called

to be here like literally someone told me I had to be here but I'm like when you said that I go Just off the strength of you saying that, I was like that in and of itself is evidence that you would say we were meant to meet. Very me, very my energy. But we're doing, listen, our attitudes on set have been phenomenal. When I tell you, Caleb, you are a cheerleader, you are bringing vibes, you are bringing energy, you are bringing coffee. I'm working at it. I'm working at it. You're doing great.

Has anyone told you? No. I'm going to tell you. No. Somebody needs to tell Caleb, you're doing great. Thank you, honey. I try to bring morale. That's what I think I offer

I think I'm very good at my job Yes you are But I'm like I think I'm funny And I'm good at my job But I think like my job on a set Is to as much as possible Even when the days are long and hard My job is to be like

Let's keep everyone in a good mood Yeah come on divine assignment By the way By the way Given to me I don't I know it I'm on a mission from God I feel it

Directly You think I don't feel it I hope you do Oh no I do Because I'm sending it to you I feel the energy I caught a picture Okay, hold on.

I took a picture of you when we were shooting in what, 100 degree weather? Yeah. Maybe 99. And you were on the stoop reading a book top of the day and I thought, I looked over,

I was in the middle of conversation with two of the other actors and I said, I'm sorry, I actually need to take this photograph. Like fully stop the conversation mid-convo, it was building. I said, oh, no, no, that's a picture. And I posted it online.

I tagged, what is it, Hans, Hot Guys, Reading. Oh, hot guys reading NYC. NYC, which they need to bring that back, by the way. I didn't realize they'd have been defunct. I was like they hadn't had a post on there in a while. Anyway, whoever runs that account, bring it back. And you know they listen.

Bring that account back. Honestly, it feels like, yes, the person who runs hot guys reading NYC listens to So True Pott. And so I am petitioning you to bring it back, reactivate the account, or hand it over to someone who wants to be committed to the clause. Yeah, and after everything you do for the culture, this is the least they could do for you.

The least you could do is get that account popping again. Give back to a giver. Please. Let's give back to a giver. Shout out to givers. Hey, first of all. First of all. Let's shout out givers.

No one's shouting out givers. Because it's a culture that's really talking a lot about takers. Oh my gosh. Everyone's a taker. What can I get? What can I get from the givers real quick? Big up to the givers. Big up.

Yeah. Ben saying. It's, it needs to happen. And also to the takers, why don't you guys go live on an island together and see how that works. Y'all just take, take, take from each other and let these givers give. You let the givers give and let everyone be sort of altruistic in their efforts. Because you're giving.

I am giving. You're giving. It's giving. You're giving. It's giving. It goes giving. I am a giver. But I was going to say that that picture I posted of you, did it go ahead, did you, how did you feel?

Did you feel violated? After I posted it, I thought, because you didn't repost it. I said, oh, no, I've pissed Caleb off. Oh, no, I thought it was very cute. I'm trying to post less these days. I saw, you know, you went ahead and scrubbed your Instagram. I scrubbed and I don't reshare a lot now. May I ask what?

No, I didn't take it as a personal affront that you didn't reshare, but I thought, oh, no, have I violated his privacy? Because I didn't ask permission. Not at all. And you probably should be asking permission. You and I are on a level, though. Again, you remember, kindred spirit. You felt what was there, yeah. What's going on?

You've been scrubbed the account. You're trying to post this. What is this coming from? I recognize this is your podcast. I will happily tell you this, by the way. And don't worry, I have questions for you. Okay, great. My situation is this, and I do wonder how you feel about it because you're, and I will

turn it back on you, but I will say for my part of it, so much of this job is being perceived. And I'm so grateful. I really, really, really, from the bottom of my heart, feels so unbelievably lucky that this is my job that I get to make people laugh and be on shows and film a movie with you. And, like, I really feel like this is insane. I literally cannot believe this happened to me. and also being perceived at such a rate and level at all times is really actually quite scary to me

and really I have a pretty deep discomfort with it's even though it's like it probably crazy for people to hear that based on the fact that I fucking do this like I put this little mic on and do this every week yeah I just feel pretty uncomfortable with it and I feel like whoa and so I'm the best thing I ever did for myself was making a specific page for the podcast where it's posting of all the time Virginia shout at Virginia posts me every single day and it's clips of me talking to the guests and it's my little face on the thing and so on my page I feel like I have the freedom to go like I do still post a lot I post stories all the time talking about politics and things and sharing music that I like but I just feel I need to scale back a little bit on being perceived because

I can see how it makes people insane I have watched it make people that I love insane and we talked about that and I can I can totally feel there are times when I'm like I will say or do or feel something that I'm like, that's not your actual morals or perspective. That is the impact of the insane weird life that you're living and you need to rein in it. Yeah. And when you say that, do you mean like that is the impact of the weird life you're in? Is that to say like you feel pressure to articulate a certain point of view because that's what people are expecting of you and you want to deliver on that? Or do you feel like it's just warping your sense of what you believe actually?

Your sense of the world, not my beliefs so much. I mean, I do feel pretty solid in my beliefs, but it's more like just like, post like posting something I don't know sometimes I just feel the there's just like pressure to be like you should post and let people know that you're relevant or you should post and let people know that you went to that party or you had lunch with this person or there's that feeling because you see everyone doing it you know and people ask and they get excited and they are in your comments being like I can't believe you're friends with so and so or whatever yeah and I have to push back on that within myself and go like that's not your values you actually don't care about that yeah that is you

very understandably kind of giving into this culture of performance of self that is like, I am performing myself very often on stage, on screen, and on this podcast. But so there are just times where I'm like on your own social media page, you actually do not have to do that at all times

and I think the step back has allowed me to just like evaluate more closely. Does that make sense? It makes total sense to me and honestly because we're kindred spirits, I'm listening, I'm going, did I not just have this conversation with someone yesterday?

who is not an entertainment but I was telling them I'm like it's such a strange I also deeply deeply deeply deeply deeply grateful like what a dream I'm literally living in my dream that's so cool but you know when you dream that you're not I would say like the details of the dream not all the details are sort of like painted before you in that time while you're sleepy you're slumbering you're dreaming not everything you're not able to perceive all that the all that exist in the dream so one of the things that exist in this dream that I didn't think about is have what it would be like to have a social media presence and have all types of people be able to comment and engage with you. I didn't think about what it would be like to like now be like I want to look like shit and go to the coffee shop and I'm having a bad day and I just want to go on a walk with my dog in Brooklyn and oh no people are going to recognize me. And it's not oh no I'm so grateful that means my work is resonating. Yeah. But two things can be true and twist. Did you know that? Two things could be true. By the way, two things can be true. We just passed that, I think. I just, yeah. Congress just voted on that. I would

say, good job Congress. You love Congress. You've always saying that. The way I'm obsessed with Congress. Specifically the current one, yeah. The current Congress. Oh my gosh. How much time do we have? No, it's an interesting thing to like grapple with and sort of navigate. And there are worst things in the world, worse things happening. But my reality and my experience is mine, and that's what I can speak to right now. And it is just a strange thing to go, oh, no. I remember someone, I was like on a walk with Heidi in our neighborhood, and someone, and I was crying. And someone was like, oh, my gosh, can I get a picture with you?

Girl, no. And I was like, I'm fully crying. You can see that I'm crying, no? You want me crying in the photo? You know? And I just, it was interesting. And that sort of thing happens where I'm like, you know, your therapist might tell you go on a walk to decompress and like, go outside, feel nature, feel the air on your face. And then I'm like, I love that. That idea sounds amazing. But then I go outside and there are people who might recognize me because, yay, you like my work. And I'm like, oh, no, I'm trying to have a moment. I'm trying to have a moment. And so it's just an interesting, it's just an interesting space and world to navigate. And it's not something I had thought about when I had dreamt dream and it does come with the territory, but it's something to negotiate for yourself. Well, and it's this like part, it's this like, yeah, it's like this, the overwhelming feeling is gratitude, excitement, and joy. And then there's this interesting little caveat to it that

I genuinely try not to talk about because I will say the couple of times I've talked about how weird it is to be perceived on that level. People get mad. People do get mad. And it's so crazy. And I understand. It is crazy, but I'm like, I do get what you mean. I'm just telling you this is what I'm experiencing. I understand people getting upset, but my whole thing about everything on the planet basically is like, y'all, I'm going to need you to do me a solid. If you don't do for nobody else. Give to the giver. Give to the giver. Give to the giver. Come to my island where we're giving, okay? Momentarily. It's giving. But it's like empathy. Just for one moment, imagine you don't know what someone else's experience is like. Even when I see comments online and people are so sure

of things and they're so the way they attack people and they go, this person should have done that. That exchange should have gone this way. What I would have done is, no, you wouldn't have. You are not there. You don't know what it's like. And I genuinely, is this, this is a comedy podcast, but I'm on my soapbox. Oh, this is not a comedy podcast, and I'm very clear about that. And some people do not like that.

And they don't like that. And maybe if you want laughs, go see Caleb on tour. Or go 10 minutes into this episode. I bet there'll be some. Just relax. We're doing it all. We was laughing up top. Okay.

But point is, like, I would really love to see people offer one another empathy. So if Caleb Heron says, you know, there's this like little caveat to this, this incredible dream of mine and I feel a sense of overwhelming gratitude, I believe Caleb has then covered his bases. So then when Caleb says, there's just this little caveat that is uncomfortable and a difficult thing to grapple with or navigate, you might be able to then go, I don't know what that's like. Yes, maybe my knee-jerk reaction is, you asked for it, you signed up for it. But may I pause and go, I actually have never been in that position. And that sounds tough. Caleb is saying it's tough. I trust it's tough.

And I may want it. I may think that if I was in that position, I would respond differently. And you might because your values might be different. And you might want to be perceived everywhere you go. And that might make you feel alive. But I'm so over the lack of empathy on the Internet and also all the people going, I know exactly what happened in this exchange. I know exactly, and I have an opinion.

I remember in college, this guy dated used to ask me all the time, like, what do you think of this? What do you think about that? And I go, I don't have enough information about it. I don't have to have an opinion. And I don't need to give you one to prove that I'm intelligent. I think I'm very intelligent. But I'm going to go, I don't have enough information on that.

And I don't have to have an opinion about everything. And that's that. And I wish people realize. Yeah, I wish people recognize, like, you don't have to have a take on literally everything. and you certainly don't have to tell someone that their experience, their personal experience of their life, a thing that they literally lived

is not what they're perceiving it to be. Not necessary. Not necessary. And there's also more broadly in a way that's different than just like, oh, can Caleb talk about why he doesn't want to be per, or why he is trying to manage from his perception. In a broader way, artistically,

you said something really interesting about covering bases that I've been thinking about a lot culturally because I think we're losing some recipes it's getting harder, I think, for people to write and create and be funny and be artistic because there's this thing happening culturally right now that is we're doing across the board to each other that is like filling in any absolutely any blank or space in a statement that someone makes with a worst case scenario intention assumption of like, so if I were to say, for example, if I were to say like, oh man, I really hate that I had to take out the trash

yesterday. I like live, you know, my trash is really hard to take on my building or something, whatever, that you complain about something. Someone goes, someone goes, God, he really thinks his life is harder than, like, coal miners in West Virginia? No. No. And I never said that. And in fact, go ahead and ask me, would I rather be taking out my trash or a coal miner in West Virginia?

Guess what? I'm taking out the trash. You know? Right. Right, but you've painted this picture and you, that, sorry, I just get so excited, but I'm like, you've painted a picture and I'm like, that's not what the statement is. I will be on threads and I will watch and it's helped me really dissociate from comments in general because I go reading comprehension out the window critical thinking skills dead rest in peace what is that doesn't exist

anymore because I go that's not what that that the thread you're responding to that's not what the person said now you have created a whole ton of context that simply isn't there yeah or and or you're responding to something they literally did not say I actually it's fascinating and I can't imagined with you being on S&L and like the reaction to that and I we can talk about that but actually it's funny because in S&L my first like real reckoning with this thing I'm talking about of people filling in filling in what isn't being said with their own upset about something was actually from an S&L bit after the Charlottesville like proud boy whatever the fuck white supremacist thing that Tina Faye did a bit on the show the sheetkaking thing where everyone got pissed at her and we're like

wow a rich white woman telling us to eat sheetcake about it and I'm like I remember at that time and have rewatched it since to think about this phenomenon because I'm thinking about like culturally what are we dealing with right now I have rewatched it if you watch that fucking bit poor Tina fay is in at least in this conversation I don't know Tina personally but I'm saying in this bit at least as as what is written she is out loud saying very poignant and critical things from a very I think correct point of view and then eating the cake and so whatever you don't have to think the bit is funny but I'm like people acting like it was like oh just eat cake about it I'm like actually even in the bit she wasn't just eating cake about it yeah there was a whole structure

behind it and that reaction has been multiplied over the past couple of years into this place of just like throwing barbs at like anything that anyone says and I'm not even talking about comedians I'm talking about other individual people online yeah anything anyone says you just fill in the thing they didn't say so what it's done kind of reverse osmosis is a lot of people who are writing and creating all their bases yeah and it's getting really boring it's getting really really boring because everyone goes, I don't want to deal with the droves of trolls coming at me about something that I didn't cover. And so to your point, I haven't rewatch that, but it's funny because I was just thinking about that bit maybe two weeks ago. Because I was thinking about the

point when particularly a comedian, and I've seen some of them sort of just like armor against commentary and kind of go, I quite literally am not listening to you. Now you have yelled and cried wolf so much that I actually don't care. I'm expecting you to be upset about stuff that I say because you've been upset about stuff that I didn't say. And I've watched, I go, this is how that transformation happens. You guys do that enough. Someone goes, okay, I don't care. I have earmuffs on and I'm going to talk into my mic and I'm going to say whatever the fuck I want. I, as a person who, like, wants to be empathetic and who wants to, who has said in my personal life that I want to be, I aspire to be an older person when I get older, whose mind can be changed.

I think like having, and that seems super rudimentary, but how often do we go like, oh, that person's older, like, my mom or dad, or they're stuck in their ways, my aunt, uncle, they're 60, they're 70. I would love, I would feel like part of a life well lived for me would mean that at 70s, someone could change my mind presenting information I had not previously considered. That'd be tight is hell to me. Yeah. And so, but I see how people go, okay, I want to receive feedback. I want to, I'm happy to engage in intellectual, good faith exchange.

But a lot of these exchanges and a lot of the comments and the backlash, I can't say a lot. Oftentimes I see it and I go, this isn't even in good faith. I don't get the sense based on your comment, based on your post, that you even watched the thing or read the thing. I get the sense that this is now commentary that is based on like derivative commentary. So you're now up in arms because you saw 20 people say a thing and you're like, yeah, I actually have a take on that. And you never went and watched the thing. And you never, again, went, is there a world in which this person was not malintended?

Right. Is there a world in which I'm filling in blanks? As a therapist once told me, I'm not allowed to do for guys. I'm dating. Yeah. So certainly we shouldn't be doing it for anything else. even though I'm like, I know this man is doing it. And when he didn't say this, I know what he was saying.

I know what he was saying because I know him. We're connected. So imagine for people you don't know and are not connected to, filling in the blanks is so crazy. And so I just think that the impact of that sort of reaction to people, especially when it's unfair and it's not rooted in reality. It's not rooted in truth just creates this unfortunate cycle where people are getting upset, then the person who has then been the target of that backlash goes,

I'm shutting down and either I'm going to retreat or I'm going to double down and now I'm just going to be an asshole. I'm committed to being an asshole. And it's not beneficial. And so I often am like when I see a nasty comment, I'm like, you're mad about something else. Yeah. Something else is going on.

I don't know. I don't know your life because this is the internet and like I don't know you. This might not even be a real person, not to be a real page. You're mad about something. Your husband yelled at you today. your wife, which is very four agreements of me, one of my favorite books, which also sounds basic bitch, but it's so, it's, I remember reading it and being like, this oversimplifies life. Like the preface I was like, oh, I'm reading this for, and, and now I'm like, no, that

second agreement, which is don't take anything personally. Everything everyone does is about them. Yeah. Even when, like, if I were to compliment you, it would simply be a function of where I'm at. Yeah. I'm feeling good. I'm wanting to spread joy. Exactly. It has nothing to do with you. And so similarly, I go, when people are not making sense, I go, you upset about something and it's not actually even the thing. It's not that and you're looking for a place to put that. And that's a choice. Well, I wish you would practice a little more awareness, but, you know, that's, and I've been lately going, some of these comments, I see now as in the Four Agreement speaks about invitations and I'm like, this is an invitation at this moment. I can engage with you and be at war with you because you're inviting me to, as the book would put it, your hell.

and no thanks actually and I have to go this is an invitation and like someone invites you to a party you don't want to go to you're like no I'm good I've talked to a lot of friends especially in the last couple years about what I consider

to be the input about you from other people which obviously the last couple years of my life has been in an increase because of the way my career is going which is fabulous, wonderful and exciting stuff but everybody deals with this if you work at an office job It's an input about you.

It could be 10 other people in your office. You know, we all in life have to figure out what we do about. And even in some ways it's not directly about you. We all deal with signals from the culture about ourselves based on what cultural beauty norms and societal standards are. So everyone at all times on different levels in different ways is dealing with an inundation of other people's input about you, back to you. And I think that when you, there's a portal to your soul that you have to choose how, who's

manning that and who's watching that. And when you open it up to praise, you inherently, it's a portal. It has an opening. And so when you open it up to the praise, you're opening it up to everything. Everything. And so when that praise turns to criticism, the portal is open. And so when people get really into praise from other people. And I noticed this, I felt this feeling for the first time in college when I, you know, I've been fat my whole life, but I was around like very beautiful out gay people for the first time and a lot of thin, attractive young gay men and or queer people.

and that they were really getting much of their validation, and this is not to judge anybody. But I noticed this pattern of like, oh, you're getting a lot of your validation from the positive input being sent to your portal from other people. And the unfortunate thing is, eventually, especially in our society, which only values youth as beauty,

that's going to either stop, which is the best case scenario, or turn negative, which is the worst case scenario because you've opened the portal. Yes. And so this way that you protect your soul from this constant, and I think perhaps maybe even like most importantly from like societal signals to you

about who you are and what your worth is, the way that you protect that is the most important thing because it affects your happiness, it affects the way you're open to treating other people, the invitations that you put out. I'm trying, even on my worst day, to put out an invitation of like, I would really like everyone around me to feel really happy and good about themselves, but like not everyone is doing that. So a lot of invitations are negative and the way you protect that, I think, it comes down to like one of the few things that I'm like,

this is the determinant of like whether or not you have a happy life yeah do you know what I mean absolutely and it's hard it's not easy like who doesn't want to personalize a compliment and go wow I really I do look good or wow I am really funny this this person said I'm funny that means something to me but like you say once you accept the praise you're opening yourself up to the criticism and you are vulnerable then to that and it's kind of impossible to engage with one and not the other. So you actually have to go, I'm not personalizing any of this.

With my work, too, I go, it's really lovely when people, like, it resonates with them. And that's kind of how I go, that makes me so happy that that resonates with you. Very, but it's like, thank you. Remember him?

I'm like, thank you so much. I can't let that penetrate, penetrate my psyche or my heart or my soul because there's been times on SNL where I'm like, man, I feel like nothing I'm doing is working or even making it to air. So now I feel forgotten.

but if my life's blood and like my lifeline and my oxygen is compliments and people going oh I love that sketch you just did on Saturday and like I go through a stretch of like six weeks of not having anything on I'm like dying I'm on life support where's my where's my happy where's my good where's my stuff my oxygen my blood I need that's the thing that keeps me out of that's the thing that makes me feel good about myself and so I'm like I don't want to ever hand over and it's not easy but I don't because you know we do live comedy there's the part of the joy of that is getting to hear people laugh out loud in real time. You're like, ooh, it's drugs.

And you're like, okay, they're laughing. We're rolling. We're cooking. But it's like, how do I go? I enjoy that. I enjoy that feeling. But then I also know to stand guard or maintain or create a boundary around myself where I go. But I can't let that inform me in terms of my own self-worth and my own talent and my own skill and so on and so forth.

But it's not easy. And it's like a, it's a, you know, Kenan said something to me a long time ago, and I've said this before, but Keenan really early on in my time at Esnaut. And I can't remember what it was pertaining to. I don't think anything had happened. But he was just like, oh, the comments are noise. It's noise. And so I have his voice in my head. That's a good voice. I have his voice in my head being like, it's noise. You don't have to, even the good stuff, it's all noise. Have you ever been sitting around thinking about all the things you wished you had? Have you ever yearned and wished for a different life? Maybe a new bicycle or a new job or maybe a single destination where you can find hours and hours of LaF Out Loud Entertainment, specifically in the form of animated television shows? Well, if you said yes to that last thing I said, I have something for you, and it's from our friends at Hulu.

Picture a giant magnet attracting all your favorite animated shows. That's Hulu, Animated. your animation destination. Catch all the shenanigans on classics like The Simpsons, Futurama, American Dad, my personal favorite family guy. Ever heard of it? And many more.

Family guy really is a quality show. They really do something special on that program. Hulu Animayhem, your animation destination. Stream now on Hulu on Disney Plus. For Hulu and bundle subscribers, terms apply. Noise, chitter, chatter. And so as a person who likes to sit in her apartment in silence, that's an easy thing to kind of separate myself from.

Like, okay, no, thank you to the noise. But it's a lifelong journey in that regard. And by the way, not to sound woo-woo, but your girl is very woo-wooed, by the way. And in fact, I have a question about that very soon, yeah. Okay, woo-woo. Something I'm like slowly coming to terms with because we never arrive, I'm beginning to really understand, is like, that will just be in process until I die. Yeah.

So it's not going to be a thing I master. because it's like a very human experience. Well, a thing I wanted to ask you about being woo-woo and being in process until you die. And I'm going to reference a thing that we talked about privately that obviously we worked out if you're not digging it. But you said to me the other day, we were chit-chatting at work about something. Yeah. And you were talking about, you're like, oh, I mean, you know, I'm trying to stop saying this, but I'm Christian light. And I was very intrigued by that because I grew up in like a very intense Christian situation.

Yeah. Not my household, luckily, but like my community for sure. And my mom's been on the show multiple times and people know that's not Kelly's vibe, but it was definitely the everything surrounding us. And I just go back and forth with like spirituality and like where I feel like I'm at with all of it. But I wonder what you mean by Christian Light and kind of how you like think about all of that. It's interesting. Thank you for asking me this because I've said it and then I go, I've said it. I've said it on a podcast once.

I've said it in conversation with people and I'm like, no problem. I feel like that is just a concise way to explain how I. feel without us getting into it and then I heard myself say it on a podcast and I was like well now it sounds like you're denying your faith or your spirituality and I don't want to do that yeah and so well it's funny also can I just say that like it would hit different for different people but like to me as someone who knows how intense I love many Christians there are many great Christians in my life but to me what it really meant for you to say that to me felt like you being like I'm Christian but I'm safe you know because there is a context well that's what I mean

that's actually what I mean and for a while I was like should I even say I'm Christian which feels crazy right my faith is my faith and I was like should I even say that because when I I know what people I love who perhaps don't feel safe with other Christians when they hear that they're like oh so you're you don't stand for this this this this this and I'm like no and that is I'm trying to go I'm safe but then I had this like other thought that was like maybe I should just say I'm Christian because Jesus was cool I'm like, Jesus was cool. And what if we reclaim the name?

What if we take it back? I'm like, what if whatever y'all are doing over there is not Christian? And you call yourself something else. And I say, yeah, I'm Christian. So I've had this thing where I go, wait, what if, yeah, why am I giving up the title to these cuckoo people over here who are not loving? And we're not doing good with it. Who are not, not reflection of what I think Jesus represents. represents, and I go, oh, I should claim it, and you should call yourself something else.

Yeah. So it's a thing that I constantly grapple with. I am absolutely a person of faith. I love Jesus. I'm spiritual. It's what's carried me in some of my darkest and hardest times. It's a lot of people go, oh, how are you so confident or how are you so this? And I'm like, my faith. My faith is the answer. That is, that's it. You and I were talking, I thought you were going to say the other day, you and I were talking about like me making a big decision and how I said I'm a person of faith so like even like my shoulder I dislocated my shoulder and the doctor said I needed surgery and I was like I won't be doing that

I simply won't be doing that no I can't move my arm but I'm going to actually what if I go I'm going to have faith that and I believe in science by the way I come from a family of doctors I studied biology I literally have a biology degree I believe in science again this is what I mean I don't think I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive like I'm a person of faith who believes in science because like God made science I'm like what it's not confounding to me but for some it is I don't know why but that being said I was like no I'm not I'm you know if my shoulder was still sticking out of its socket maybe I would understand but I was like I'm strong I'm young I fit I was like I have resources I bet I cannot do this and the doctor kept being like surgery And I'm like, yeah, I can't wrap my head around it. By the way, I have surgeons in my family. So it's nothing against surgery. I just was like, what if I will and manifest that I don't need surgery?

So when people would talk to me about it, I'd be like, you need to get surgery. I'd be like, that's for you? You keep that over there. You have surgery. You go get surgery. You go get surgery. Why don't you get surgery telling me I need surgery, even though my shoulder was dislocated? But because something happened like last year.

Or like, yeah, late last year where I was like, when did you become a person who sort of like is so, it's not even, I wouldn't go so far as to call it pessimists, become pessimistic. When did I become pessimistic? It was more just like preparing for the worst. Preparing for the worst. And I, and I sort of, I was like, when did this take hold? Where you stop and you go, wait, it's slow incremental changes. And now I'm like this kind of like, oh, this bad thing's going to happen. Or yeah, this is probably going to let me down. This isn't going to work out. And I was like, that's, weird. You were never like that. So I made it a point to be like, I'm not, I'm actively trying not to do that anymore. What if I used my words for good? What if I used my words for good? And I, which is, by the way, another one of the four agreements be impeccable with your word. By the way, the four agreements massively changing your life, by the way. Quite literally, Don Miguel Ruiz. I love you. I love you. That's the author. But be impeccable with your word. By the way, and people hear that they think that means do what you say. you're going to do and not so much in the book it's actually like you know your words can create

realities and that's what we're getting woo-woo but your words can create realities and so I was like you know you could use your words for dark magic for light magic whatever you want and I'm like what if I just believe that I don't need surgery also I think we've got to get to a space by the way there there are so many things that aren't said there that are probably true right where it's like if you were in excruciating pain or if it was something other than a shoulder like a chest Or like, there are all these other realities where maybe you would feel differently about it. But in this context where you're not telling someone else, hey, you don't go get shoulder surgery, trust in God. But if you're saying, for me, I know the pain level.

I know what I believe in. I know what resources in time I have to address this? It's like, what is the problem with that? Because by the way, if you try that for a while and it doesn't work, you can go get the surgery. By the way, literally, yes. So then like, I went and got a second opinion and he was like, you don't, I don't think you. I got it late in the game too. But this is like me going, I will do everything.

I will do physical therapy. Like before I even saw the doctor. because her schedule was booked. I found a physical therapist immediately because I knew like you don't wait on that because I had a back injury years ago. So I'm like, I know to immediately get a physical therapist because I'm not getting surgery.

By the way, when I went to see the doctor was just to be like MRI, did something happen in here when I fell and my shoulder was out of socket for 15 minutes? So I needed to just confirm, but I got a physical therapist right away because I was like, well, you had this injury and your shoulder popped out of socket and like kind of hurts right now so you should definitely no matter what you should be in physical therapy for it and so I was like I'm so committed to this process of physical therapy doing my little

exercises on my own I went to out a second opinion so late in the game and this doctor was like you know I don't think you need surgery and here's why and I'm like well of course you're telling me what I like to hear so I love you fully have a crush on you now because you told me what I wanted to hear you've done the most powerful thing someone can do which is affirm my viewpoint Thank you. And I love you now. I think this is my husband. But anyway, so, but this is my thing when he then explained, like, what's cool is he explained to me what the surgery was and how long it would take to recover, which is I had heard a different thing with the initial doctor. Who's fantastic. All these doctors I'm getting to see are amazing, honestly. And the thing about medicine is that there's like one doctor will see one thing. One doctor will have a different perspective. I've been told I should get a third opinion. Don't nobody got time for that. I'm not getting. a third opinion. Someone has told me what I want to hear. I'm stopping there. I found the answer. Thank you. I found the answer I needed. I'm not going anywhere else. Thank you. Truly me Googling symptoms, by the way. All Google symptoms and the first three things will be

horrifying and the fourth one will be like, you're fine, drink water. And I'm like, finally. That's what I'm talking. The truth comes out. You're fine drink water. I'm like, Mayo Clinic is half. Reddit. Exactly. Shout out to Reddit. But I'm like fully like a Nigerian would be like put Vaseline on your shoulder. It'll be fine. I'm like very good. That's what I like. I like that. I have Vaseline. I have Vaseline, I will do that every night. No, but I, he exclaimed the surgery and I did, it was this really beautiful thing. I feel like internally where I was like, now I'm not like resisting surgery. And so when I say I'm not going to get in and I bet I can heal without it, I just had a

hunch. And then my friend who's a physical therapist, again, late in the game, was like, you don't need surgery. Like surgery is only this for the shoulder specifically and the injury you had. It's like a successful surgery is considered like restoring 90% mobility or 80 or something and she's like I don't you either get surgery to restore range of motion or for pain yeah you're not in pain anymore and I think your range of motion can return by just getting stretched the F out by a PT and that's and it's not pleasant let me be clear and surgery would be a cool fix I just was like I can't wrap my head around this procedure then the second doctor explained it to me explain the recovery time it sounded just I could wrap my head around it more it was

like, oh, four months, and then I'm back to 100. And oh, this is, you're connecting this thing to this thing. Okay. And because of that, I go, okay, if it comes down to it and I want surgery, fine. Yeah. But for now, I've decided, like, I'm going to trust that I can heal. Surgery will be there. Surgery will be there. Yeah. And that's actually also his vibe. So, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to be mindful of my words in general these days. And I'm not perfect at it. I'm so bad at it. But I'm trying. And that's, something, Caleb. It is something.

You also said something earlier that I really liked and I have been thinking a lot about which is when you're like some of these some of these people that would maybe lead with Christian

should just call themselves something else. I've actually really enjoyed that a lot of the like super intense right wing people have started just calling themselves patriots.

I'm like, actually, actually I like that. Because I'm like, you know what? That is your primary number one concern. Yes. Is that you believe in a superior white America

that you would like to return to, whatever that means. And that is your number one thing. And I actually really like that you're identifying that about yourself because you're not Christians first and foremost. And your behaviors are not Christian. And I actually, as someone who has a lot of complicated relations, like complicated feelings and a complicated relationship with Christianity and with many Christians in my early life, many cool Christians in my life now, and some cool from my early life. But it was skewed in the wrong direction. But as someone who has those feelings, I'm like, I actually really like that we're getting, that we're getting specific about this.

because a lot of the behaviors that are going on in this allegedly Christian country and especially with like prosperity gospel prosperity gospel to me in general I'm like that is certainly not the Christianity that like the Christians I know who truly feel Christ like is not anything that they're trafficking in

and so I'm like I actually really like that you guys are going with Patriot I think run with that. I think that's a good title. It feels true. It just makes it very clear. It makes it very clear what you stand for

and what your actual concern is. in what master you serve in what master you serve which is like yeah I want this country to look this way and that's what's most important to me and I want things to return to whatever the hell so I would appreciate that too quite frankly

and then that way I don't have to go I'm diet Christian yeah I'm Christian but please don't wince I don't win because it's not like that I love you all I love all of you I literally love everyone I really am like I

I want to do everything from a place of love, and it's challenging at times, Caleb, because sometimes people really be pushing buttons, and that's where the challenge is. And then you go, but I'm going to love you. I'm going to love you. I swear to God, I'm going to love you. I swear to, gee, you're going to get this love from me. You're going to get some giving from the giver. You're going to come over here. I got something for you because I'm a giver. This is like my mom's whole deal, too, on Christianity, which is my favorite, probably my favorite, the person who most makes me

like feel good about Christianity and feel like actually that there are parts of this that are really important to me is my mom because her whole deal has always been like, she's never been sucked into any political hate movements because she's like, well, I could never do that. That's not Christian. Yeah.

Like she's like trans people? Yeah, they seem like children of God to me. Yeah. She's just never been able to be sucked into that stuff because she truly first and foremost is like, well, truly first and foremost, she's like, we should all be drinking Miller Light at the bar. That's really getting down to it.

But she's like, she's truly like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like we're just supposed to love everybody and anything that feels not that is like obviously wrong. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I think a lot of, not even just religious, but a lot of like political, a lot of just like movements and gatherings in this country lately in general. The last like two or three decades have been, I think veering more towards this course of like vile, like winning, like very small minded narrow conceptions of who can. win and have a good life. And the people I would like to be around are people that have a very broad conception of possibility and who can have a good life. And I would say everybody can.

Yeah. Actually, everybody could. Because when I say that like billionaires are robbing everybody and keeping most of us from having a better life, when we implement their plan, 90% of people have a worse life than they could. When we implement my plan, they're still okay. Okay. So Caleb for president?

It's giving. Hello? He's running. Okay, I have an idea. The givers go to an island. Caleb is our president. President of giver islands. Giver Island.

That's what they called me in college. Oh! He's giving. We love a giving partner. Oh, my God. And a giving president. I mean, your mom's Christian? Okay, okay.

Yeah, I feel like your mom and I would vibe. And I, this is the thing is I'm like, the charge is to love everyone, right? And one of the things is like love your neighbor as yourself, but here's the thing. some people don't love themselves. And I don't think people will realize, even people who think they love themselves. I'm like, do you really love yourself? And so it's hard to operate from a place of love

when you're not able to offer that to yourself. And think about all the other things you may not be able to offer yourself and then be trying to, like, show up in the world and offer it to someone else. You can't really. You're operating from a deficit. Yeah. You don't really love yourself.

You're not really honest with yourself. So then you're lying to other people, et cetera. So it's an interesting thing. And I also am just like, the Bible kind of says that the law doesn't transform people so to try to make anyone go you're going to do this because this is what is like not even the way god works and so it's a matter of like having your heart and your spirit transformed and what does that is l ovee come on it's not the law it's also just antithetical to me like even as like so if even if i am not a christian which i am not at this moment open who knows what

might happen anything can happen but even if paul come on who knows okay but the the the the idea of christianity is that we, to me, and the way the people that I have loved to have been Christians that have made me want to be Christian again or that made me not feel bad when I was in Christianity was that yeah, the charge is to love,

the imperative is to love everybody. That's the charge and that whatever is going to happen with judgment is going to be all left up to God. Honey, I don't even want to take that on. I just got to chill because I'm like, I don't want that responsibility. Yes.

I don't want to be responsible for judging you. Dear God, thank God you haven't given me that assignment. It's not my business. I can't stress this enough I don't want that assignment I got enough I got emails to respond to I have text

I have tech we were talking about this emails emails text I got stuff to do I have correspondence I have correspondence to tend to I'm like that's just not my that's not my business but I'm like everyone wants to

you know people want to feel in control it's like I also feel like that's like human nature to want to be in control to want to have answers I like leaders I admire most in general are sort of like but this might be awful. I admire leaders who are like, I don't know. I go, hell yeah.

We're going to get someone who knows about that, I promise you. Yes, it is not me. I don't know about that. We will find someone. Because for me, that signals a level of like transparency, honesty, and confidence. And humility. Imagine the confidence and humility to be able to be like, I do not know. Not sure.

I don't know. That is so, even people who apologize, in my opinion, when they recognize they're wrong, I go, that is so hot. Yeah. I genuinely think, I'd be like. looking for ways to be like, I am sorry, actually. Whoops. Whoops.

But you know what? Whoops at the end of the day. Do you think I'm hot? Yeah. Whoops. Uh-oh. I'm sorry. She let me hit because I'm sorry.

Quite literally I might. A man apologized. I'm like, I'm going to let you hit. She let me hit because I'm sorry, genuinely, because I atone sincerely from my heart. You know, we've talked about, there's a kind of conservative idea of parenting that's like children should never see you sweat you should never the children should never be in charge since the inmates the asylum and i'm like i i just watch my my aunt and uncle are raising my little cousins in a very in a very nice way it's very gentle it's very you know and not a lot

you know my childhood wasn't horrible but like my parents were uh young and broke and parenting was a very new thing to them and i think like watching my aunt and uncle apologize to their children like have a moment and be like be annoyed with them and then be like i'm sorry mom you know mom was in a really bad mood that wasn't a way to talk about that can we do x y or z i'm like that is so transformative and crazy yes and how much good that would do the whole world if we could all just have the humility to be like to children especially yeah i'm like we don't model so much that we expect children to just pick up on someday yeah and it's like wow you've never apologized to them when you've gone off the handle but they're supposed to apologize to you when they do yes i and i i admire parents who

are able to apologize to their kids too it's something i was talking to a friend about recently i don't have kids but I'm like it's cool to me that for you to show your child like I can apologize to you and also affirming of their existence like yes they're little but they're a little human and like when I was getting ready to come see you for some reason I was thinking about how man when I have kids I want to be able to be like what's going on you're having a tantrum how are you feeling and give them the space to articulate that and it's again because I'm not a parent easier said than done to say that I want to do that. And let me be very clear. I can imagine being overwhelmed and stressed. And it's like, I do not have time to ask this little person why they're acting out

right now. But ideally, I go, you are a human. You're here. You're talking. You didn't ask to be by the way. You didn't ask to be here. You didn't choose me. But like, let me ask what that's about at five years old or six years old as opposed to like, just get in line. Get in line and do what I tell you to do because like it's it's so diminishing and you people carry that with them let's talk trauma let's talk it we need to talk about no people aren't talking about trauma because I'm guessing I'm guessing just based on the fact that you were randomly thinking that on the way over here I'm feeling like you might not have gotten that yourself but you know what you know and now that I think about it hold on wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute yeah no but honestly like I was raised by like really

lovely people who really genuinely lovely people who are excellent excellent I think character and values in me and at the same time I go but there's things that could have been done better but that's the beauty of it and I think every parent

I imagine now I'm turning this into my podcast but I do think every parent wants their kids to have a better experience than they do so I now am afforded the ability to go my summer is not fun and I'm awarded the ability to go I'm going to ask my kids what's this about talk to me at seven years old.

Well, to do better. Yeah, to do better. And so it's like no, it's no indictment of them or how I was raised or like, because I also think in doing my podcast, realizing like, okay, so everyone kind of had the same sort of experience with their dad's some version. It's a lot of overlap. And everyone's just, I want to say everyone's trying their best. I can't say everyone.

I think many people are trying their best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also maybe many people are doing the best they're currently capable of. Yes. And a lot of people are.

not capable of a lot for various reasons. Sometimes that reason is that they don't care to. And that's a reason. And that is a reason. And we got to let it rock. I want to ask you a comedy question. Okay. Because you did groundlings, right?

I did UCB. UCB. Yes. When you were like writing stuff back then, do you remember, like I'm thinking of a character that I wrote in the hundreds of characters I wrote, that there was one that I was like, damn, you really, you really figured something. You know, like, do you have a joke or a character or a character or a, a thing that you wrote that you were like, I actually might have, I might have done something

with this. This is something. Hold on. You know, it's not a character so much as I've told this joke a bunch, but this is like a long jerk, like I'm about to take you on a little walk. Let's go. So someone from UCB invited me to a wrestling match, like a real, like it's like the junior league to the WWE.

And I was like, I'll go like in Van Nuys. I'm like, I don't know, that sounds weird. I'll go. and I went and I thought one of the wrestlers was cute and so then I like found him on Instagram and I was like he has a girlfriend and this is awful I'm saying it out loud

I already can't wait This is awful So then she like had posted a thing Mind you, mind you Three days ago at work Aiko showed me a hot guy with a girlfriend And goes he has a girlfriend We gotta get her out of there

Y'all I'm playing I'm joking I do comedy If he winds up single, we'll talk about it. I'm not going to play any part in that situation. But truly, I was kidding. But, Maddie's motherfuck's going to think I'm a ho, and I am.

No, I'm not a ho. My friend yesterday goes, are you a whore now? No. No, absolutely not. And you'll know if I am. I'll announce. I'll let you know. It'll be my Instagram bio.

Okay, yes. It's my in the trades. There's a link to the trades in my bio. He can hold him as a whore now. Vibe switch. Brain shift. Absolutely. So, okay.

So her post of the, she posted him, dear God, this woman might be listening. She could listen to your podcast. This is awful. Okay. Anyway, point is she posted and was like, so happy to have found him, you know, I had to kiss a few frogs before I found this prince. And I thought, girl, you don't look like you just be kissing people.

Yeah. You look like you do. So I have this joke that is like, got this advice that you have to kiss a few frogs before you find your prince here's the thing I'm just kissing my frogs

I was going down on my frogs reverse cowgirl in my frogs lending my frogs money my frogs are at the house three nights a week there's a toothbrush all of a sudden exactly so what do we mean what are we talking about

and so I remember writing that and being like well that's fun I really you know I really figured something out here and I don't really I like dibble dabble in standing up just because it's like a fun exercise to be like I love making myself uncomfortable I feel so alive I will do things on purpose to make myself uncomfortable and I'm like it

just makes me feel alive so I'm like this feels like a scary thing so I'm going to go dabble in this and so that joke I remember going oh wow like if you really put your mind to this you can actually be good that feel by the way the specifically I don't just kiss my frogs I beat beat beat beat beat beat feels very queens of comedy to it oh my goodness I need to go on tour that's very queens of comedy too or any of those ladies would have eaten that up yeah and so I'm like and so I was like oh that's so cool um but that was a moment there but honestly like the UCB of it all I think taught me like game right so like even getting to do sketch at S&L it's like I remember the confidence the little bitty confidence I felt once I got there because I'm like I had to come up with my

audition the time I got it so I tested in 2016 and then I got it in 2018. For 2016, I had to have those characters for a very long time, like a year. I'd sat with them. They'd been in front of all kinds of audiences. And I didn't get SNL that year, but I felt like that audition was like full proof because I'm like, this has been tried and tested and like true. This is bulletproof. Now in 2018, when I tested, they gave me a week to come up with characters. And, and it did, I did it. I did it. I went to open mics and tested things out and changed jokes and swap shit out. But, um, When I got to S&L, I remember being like, I tricked them. I'm not supposed to be here. I've tricked us. I fooled somebody. I'm like, I studied biology. What's happening in my office?

But then I had to remind myself, I'm like, girl, you came up with those characters in a week. You did that in a week. And so I like hung my hat on that whenever doubt would try to creep in. And I'm so grateful for that because I had that to carry me. Whereas if I had gotten it in 2016, I'd be like, well, yeah, bitch. Yeah, you did this. These characters are a year and a half old. And now you have a week to make a show.

week to make a show? Are you actually capable of that? And so I am grateful, obviously grateful I got it when I did because I also in that time honed my comedic voice, whatever the hell that is. There's something about that gap because I had a similar couple year gap between the first time I screen tested and the final time I screen tested. And it was like the first time they got me at such a point in my life where like I needed that job. I had no reps. I had no, I mean I had, I had, I had just gotten agents through the process. and like Chicago agents who were lovely, who I loved, but they were very new to me.

And yeah, I just had no, I was just like I needed it. I would do anything to have gotten that job. And then the time, when I went back, even during the process, I was like, I kind of don't think this job is for you. And, but it was still at a point in my career, I'm like, you have to go. You have to answer the call. And, you know, we've talked about, I've talked to many people on the show and off the show about the fact that I'm, the best two things ever happened to me are that I didn't get that job

twice for Caleb. but that second time when you come back and you screen test the second time there is just a different like you start to take stock of like oh these years between like I really got better at my thing I feel more confident in my thing I feel less like I need this any place or any job but just that like this is something I fucking do and you either want me to do it with you or you don't and that's up to you and you're looking at a million different factors for that but that um like confidence and self-assuredness that comes with a little bit of time yes I had that confidence shift too the way I operated in my first screen test versus my second. My second I was like, this is an honor to get to test again, but I had things I was very excited about in L.A. and I had just like made peace with my life in L.A. and was like,

I actually like it. I like, I don't like it here. I don't like it here. I don't like it here for a long time. And then I was like, fine, you live here, get over it. And then truly once, and I'd be like get me to New York, I need to get to New York. And then by the time I got S&L.S. And I was like, I don't need to live in New York. I like L.A. It's good. I have my people. And I have

I have all these things I'm excited about. making and then it was like oh you're testing again which i thought was a huge honor to get to do and then at the same time i was like you could just ship me back to l.a tonight and tell me that i don't which is a very different energy than the energy i had in 2016 which was like oh my gosh i want this this is crazy but so much happened where like i had done a one woman show between that first time and that second time um that was so fun and so i'm like you do the time that happens and i really do believe this is one of those like things happen in the timing they're supposed to. It doesn't always feel that way. But I'm, I look back at that and it sounds like you feel similarly where you go,

this, that worked out how it was supposed to it in the timing. It was supposed to. We all, I think so and I think we all make peace, right? Like I look back and go, not getting that job twice. We're, we're two huge good things for me. But there are people who are, I know, we have many friends who are on the show for one year that go, the best thing ever happened me was that I got that job for one year. There are people that are on for 10 years that are like, I'm glad I stayed for 10 years. Like, it's with, it's like this with any other job as well that I think healthy happy people look back on things that have happened to them in life good or bad and go that's fine yeah that was supposed to happen for me yeah yeah what happened was supposed to happen yeah I think that's the way you move through

things going the way you didn't expect or going the way you did expect and not turning out quite right or going perfectly like you move through all that stuff by just coming to a piece of like it was what it was and I'm here now right exactly wherever I am whatever it is yeah yeah I agree I mean, you do, I am so glad that you're on that show because you have some of my favorite bits from it. Thank you, the truly, you're, I have not seen, something has not made its way to me personally from that show that has made me laugh so hard out loud as much as many things that made me laugh. Obviously, all our friends who work there are geniuses. They're so funny.

But the particular one that has made me laugh the most in the last couple of years is your fucking stand-up bit. Oh my God. That fucking stand-up character with her purse. Her purse. In front of the update desk. Miss Eggie, just pacing. Miss Eggie, man, I love her so much. which just like a nod to a comedian, like the Queens of Comedy.

It felt like that, yeah. Like an absolute nod to the Queens of Comedy. And she's so obnoxious. My thing with her, though, is like, and this is her little unique game, is like, you think you are killing. Yeah. So when a, like, her mid-ass jokes. And, like, when the punch doesn't hit because the punch is so soft,

her going, suck-a. It's like, suck-as-man. not a joke missetia you have to tell the joke that's strong it truly it truly reminded me so much of well i i don't know if you and i have talked about this but i've talked about on the show a lot that one of my biggest inspirations is monique and specifically her queens of comedy set where she comes out of a fucking rotating pyramid and she starts the set of a taping by being like every fat bitch in this room should be on their feet applauding me i'm like that is unreal my goodness and this character reminds me of that like just brazen like just bold like oh i love it uh thank you

caleb it's so fun for me to get to do too because in reality when i'm talking to my girlfriends we like truly switch in and out of character in a conversation if there was like a fly on the wall for any of our face times it's like the level the number of characters we do in any one call just talking to each other about life it's like so fun and so that character feels and just me switching it out feels so much like I'm on a FaceTime with one of my homegirls. That's literally how that feels. And then I get to do a nod to the Queens of Comedy

and shout out to Monique, another Baltimore legend. I love her. And so it's pure joy, but it also feels like a thing you have to earn at SNL, right? Like I couldn't come out the gate and do that in my first season. I wouldn't have thought of the concept, one, but two, is like the audience, we take for granted how much the audience

has to like get to know you and decide. they fuck with you at a place like SNL. And it's similar at UCB. Like there came a time, I would say, like, I would watch people as I was coming up and I was a student and I was like, oh, my goodness, if John Doe says yellow on stage, the audience is losing their shit now if Larry Miller made up names, are these cleared? Are these cleared? We cleared them with legal, yeah.

Okay, it was legal, very good. Our lawyer's in the corner dropping notes, yeah. Okay, John Doe, Larry Miller. If Larry now says yellow, they're not laughing at it. And it's like, yes, it could be the way they're saying it or not. But I'm like, some of that is you have curried the favor of the audience over time because they trust you to be funny and they trust what you're doing is funny. And so that takes such time at S&L to establish.

And that's another place where people have all kinds of ideas about what's going on there and how it works and who's in the writer's room and who's not in the writer's room. And I go, could you imagine a reality in which you might not know as much about SNL as you think you. I think you do. Because I'm going to go ahead and offer that possibility to you. It suggests, in fact, you don't know as much. It's an invitation. How about that?

I have a question for you. Please pop off. What is so true to you? What's so true? What's so true to me? And I have another segment if you want to think on that. Okay. Okay.

I want to think on that. Yes. Easy, done. Well, I have a game for you. Okay, let's game it up. And, you know, we do this every episode. if, I'm going to read you 15 statements. Okay, I'm going to take a sip of water.

Please do. Okay. And usually you tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I said is true or false. Oh. And if you get 10 or more correct, Ego, we're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars, which I love to make silly money. Come on now. So let's do it.

Okay. Okay. You ready? Yes. The human circulatory system is over 60,000 miles long. False. True. The letter Q.

I should know that. Biology major. I don't believe in science to be clear. Forget science. Forget science. Forget science. You know who knows. God.

God. Yeah, I don't need to know. Okay. The letter Q does not appear on the periodic table of elements. Were these tailored to me because I was a science major? I don't know. Oh, uh-uh, guys.

I don't know any. They gave me the degree, but I did not retain any information whatsoever. They're not all science. Don't sweat it. Okay, Q is not on the table of the periodic table of elements. I'm going to say that's false.

That is true. The 10 tallest mountains in the United States are... That is true as in my answer was right? No. I'm not. I'm not. confuse you so I could get in the way. Yeah, you playing with the wall. Okay, go ahead. The 10 tallest mountains in the United States are all located in Montana.

False. It is false. It's Alaska. Iceland has the most utilized railway system in the world. False. False. It has no railway system. Yeah, because all that water would people be in the lagoon. Yep. Okay. A standard piano has 88 keys. False. It's true. This is pissing me off. This one will be really interested. I'm, I don't, this one, this one will be really interested. I don't, this Can this episode, I look stupid. What did you bring me up here to do?

Look stupid, Caleb? Okay, but, there you go. Guess what? Okay, yeah. Eastern Technical High School's motto is knowledge for all. Honey, I went to that high school. It is news to me that there's a motto. This is a big reveal.

Motto reveal. There's a motto? Okay. Knowledge for all? Hmm. I like the way it sounds. Why not? Knowledge for all.

It's a magnet school you have to apply to, so do they really mean it? I'm going to, knowledge for all, Eastern Technical. I'm going to say, knowledge for all. Knowledge for all. I'm just going to stay stuck up. I refuse to get this wrong. But I'm going to be real with you. The colors are orange and black.

It's located in Essex in Baltimore, Maryland. it's a magnet school I was an allied health major in high school yes I had a major it's a magnet school it's no one's homeschool Blue Ribbon High School Knowledge for all

Yeah true False Okay I don't care In fact they do have one I don't even care I wonder if you'll know I don't even care that it's false

It should be true It's actually tech yeah This is some bullshit They came up That was not a thing No, this is some bullshit. Techia, who is responsible? Because one, that was not a thing when I went there.

They made that up since I left, and that is crazy. We need to rework that. I love y'all. Okay. There is a McDonald's in Vatican City. True. False. I'm so sick of this.

How many more questions? Everybody brings me on their little podcast so I can look silly and stupid. Is that what, are you happy? I'm not laughing I'm laughing at your energy your anger about this segment is truly taking me

what is this segment called it's called true or false they need to cancel it bulls are colorblind bulls are why would I know this I'm going to be a leader right now and say I don't know

I don't fucking know the fuck bulls are colorblind yeah bulls are colorblind yeah well no no Bulls are colorblind. You are the first person to, Ego, I have to tell you.

True. I don't know. False. Watch. It's true. Okay, cool. I got it. You're the first person to give this segment the energy that I think it has deserved the entire show. I have feared every guest would respond to the segment this way and you are, it's truly cracking me up. It's sending me because this is bullshit. This is bullshit. Why are you doing this? Because this is how I would respond to it. Because why are we doing this? We had a lovely conversation. Now I look like a dumb ass. Not me looking stupid.

Mind you, why are we asking about bulls? Who cares? Oh, my God. I'm not a bull. I don't even dibble dabble with bulls. Why would I colorblind? A bull says I don't see color and all of a sudden what? They're an ally?

No, like anyway. We got like half left. Really? Okay, my bad. Crystal Palace FC. Football club. Play their games at Selhurst Park. True.

That is true. Lettuce is a member of the Sunflower family. Lettuce is a member of the Sunflower family. Sunflower family. I did not know Sunflowers had kin and lettuce is a member of the sunflower family.

I'm going to say true. That's true. Okay. There are no moons orbiting Mars. I need to phone a friend. You know what? Actually, legitimately go ahead. I love that.

I want to phone a friend. I legitimately love that. There are no moons orbiting Mars. Okay, because I'm not, I'm sick of looking stupid. We FaceTime in somebody. My friend loves space. My friend Rashida loves space. Rashida. She might answer.

Rashida She will. She had to, she told me she was going somewhere, but she might be. Hold on. Let's see. Come on, Rashida. Come on, she's. Please pick up. Please pick up. I want to hear that little. I need you. I need you. I need you now. Rashida, please. It's so important.

Rashida, please don't do this to me. Sheeds. This is so tough. This is so true. Rashida, please. Oh my gosh. I had to record a video. for her. Yeah.

Okay. I'm sorry, y'all. Just cut this out. You don't have to cut it. Sheads, hi. Okay, so what's the question? Oh, hi, Rashida. There are no moons orbiting Mars.

True or false? Sheeds, you would know this. There are no moons orbiting Mars. Are there moons orbiting Mars? Call me back. Can we wait 10 seconds? She might call me back. Yes, we'll come back to it.

Okay. More tornadoes occur in the United Kingdom per square mile than anywhere else. False. It's true. What? Why don't they talk about it? I don't know. All we do over here is that as a tornado.

We talk about it all the time. Possums, okay, possums have thumbnails. Possums have thumbnails. Possums have thumbnails. Possums have thumbnails. I'm going to say false. It is false. Okay.

USC's student newspaper is called The Traveler. False, Daily Trojan. Exactly. Yes. The TikTok. Tic Tacs were named after the sound they make when... Tic Tacs were named after the sound they make when you shake them. Who came up with these questions?

Him. These are good. Okay. When you shake them, true. That is true. Yeah. And the only one we have left is the moon's orbiting Mars question. She doesn't call me back.

She don't call me back in like 10 minutes. I'm going to say it's no moons orbiting Mars. There are no moons orbiting Mars. True or false? Orbiting... False. False. There are two.

How'd she do? a good comeback but nine wow so literally one away from winning by the way so the whole time you're like I looked down my look down one away from winning one away from winning have I done thank you you're a genius I'm a genius in a bottle my final question for you is the one that we paused on which is

what is so true to you what is so true to me there's so many things that are so true to me but what is so true to me is that above all else your relationships are the most important thing in your life period that's how I feel I know you and I talked a little bit about this re our commitment to work but at the end of the day on our deathbed we're not going to be like oh I worked my ass off it's a man I cultivated lovely relationships in my opinion that is so true

and I know it's right but I have some priorities to rearrange and that's okay maybe for a season or two or three or four or five you're like I'm work oriented and then I'm going to pivot and be like I really want to pour into my relationships and then you might go the other way but I I think relationships are the most important things. You'll be for seven or eight seasons of your life. Of your life. And this is dog gears, we're talking. By the way, so you multiply in some tracks.

So 49 to what is the next number, seven times eight? What's that? 56. 56 years. We're impressed. Right, not bad. That was hot. Thank you.

Hot guys reading, hot guys doing math. Hot guys apologizing. Hot guys apologizing. Hot guys apologizing. Let's start the trend. I actually, hot guys apologizing. I'm tempted to start the Instagram account. Hashtag hot guys apologizing.

Let's get it viral. Let's make it happen. Hot guys apologize. Hot guys apologize. Let's actually get it on a t-shirt. Hot guys apologize. Hot guys apologize. You know ugly guys don't.

They don't. And don't give an ugly guy a chance just because you're like he's going to treat me better. They will make a fool of you. Because they're actually an ugly guy will really play your ass. Yeah. Ugly guys randomly, they're a sneaky. Oh, yeah.

They're a sneaky conniving group. And they will randomly make you look like a fool way more than a hot guy. A hundred percent, yes. It's crazy. It's wild out here. It's really crazy. Be safe out here. Yeah.

Be safe. Everyone be safe. Everyone be safe. Do not give a chance to an ugly guy. No, because he will turn around and make you seem like and act like you're the ugly one. Yeah, he will make you play the ugly duckling. And it's like, sir, hey. You better stop playing.

I was doing a Pell Grant. Yeah. I was doing a Pell Grant when I was with you. When I was with you. And now I'm out here feeling ugly. And I have played the fool. I've played the fool. I go.

We love you so much. Do you want to tell them where they can find you? Oh my goodness. You all can find me on Instagram. at eggy boom that's e g-g-y-y-y-b-o-m and then you can find me on TV sometimes television and movies and a big one and streamers as well from time to time oh yeah in a big way and mind in my business you can find me mind in my business most times I have seen you do it you've actually seen me on set I'd be in a

corner mind of my business I have seen you do it in life that's true so that's where find me there I have a podcast more episodes coming soon very soon, maybe tune. I would love if you did. That's it. Thank you so much for having me. We love you. Thanks for being here. That was a hate gum podcast.