So True with Caleb Hearon - Gaten Matarazzo Loves Pizza

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Welcome! This week’s guest is the talented Gaten Matarazzo! Gaten and Caleb talk growing up in the public eye, weird encounters in bathrooms, the proper ways to grieve, Star Wars, and much more! Watch PIZZA MOVIE starring Gaten and Caleb on Hulu April 3rd!  Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/  Follow Gaten! @gatenmatarazzo Follow the show! @sooootruepod  Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings  Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Head to https://turbotax.com to find a store location near you and get matched with a TurboTax expert — with real-time updates in the iOS app.  Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Head to https://RULA.com to find a therapist the easy way.  Get $29 denim when you sign up as a NEW VIP at https://Fabletics.com/sotrue Head to https://squarespace.com/sotrue for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use OFFER CODE: SoTrue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Virginia Muller. All episodes are filmed in The So Trudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.  A Wave series. wavesportsandentertainment.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When WestJet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Wave.

I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual. No, because their money is green. Still stream pizza movie. Yeah, yeah, please, please. If you're a devout Catholic, still stream pizza movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you.

For sure. Today's episode is presented by Intuit TurboTex. Now this is Texas. Gaten, how's it going? It's doing very well, Caleb. How are you? Dude, I'm so glad you're here. Me too.

This is a delight to me. This is a delight to me as well. How did this come about? Something happened at South By, did it not? I think so. Oh, it was Billy. We were sitting in the hotel and Billy goes, Caleb, you have to have a gate on your podcast.

I said, Billy, we'll sort this. I wanted to be clear. Like, he brought it up. The way he brought it up, it seemed like it was such an awkward way of bringing it up because it seemed very much like I was. very much like I was like will you say something? Can you please stand up for me? Stand up for me.

I swear I didn't but it seemed like the way he said he was like Oh, Caleb you should have a you should have Yeah, yeah yeah yeah The thing where you're like it's kind of like when you were a kid And you wanted to ask like sleep over at a friend's house And you'd be like my mom's not going to go for it unless you ask Yeah exactly What if Gaten stayed over tonight? Do you guys think?

I was so embarrassed I was like you blew up my spot for no reason. I didn't even say anything. Not at all. No, I'm thrilled to have you here. I'm glad to be here. I'm so glad we met making pizza movie. Yes, indeed. For Hulu. For Hulu. Indeed. And that weird little hot warehouse on your first day. Weird little hot warehouse. I showed up. I had such a funny experience meeting you for that because I filmed my HBO special the night before. Went out, like, celebrated with everyone. A trooper for doing that. Filming a special is like a fucking crazy undertaking. I had also thrown,

not thrown my back out, but like I had gone for a really long bike ride the day before filming the special. Oh. Because I wanted to like move and feel like get some stress out and I hurt my back really fucking bad. Where was it? Where would you? It was in Chicago.

Oh, cool. I filmed in Chicago at like a DIY music venue that we like turned into a venue. Katie Birmingham who designed this set designed this like. Indeed. Black box DIY venue to make it look so cute. But then I filmed the special with a really fucking hurt back. And then the next morning at like 7 a.m. I had to fly to Syracuse and get off the plane and come straight to you.

Yeah, yeah. And start filming the special. fucking movie. And so I was in such a... I mean, I was trying not to show it, but I was in such a bad movie. Because I got there. They hadn't told me this comes out after the movie comes out. The movie comes out tomorrow. Okay, so I won't spoil anything because we haven't seen. That's very nice.

Crazy. Comes out tomorrow from this episode. Okay, not okay. But I got there and had to get into this crazy get-up that I wasn't aware I was going to be wearing. I felt so bad. When I found out you didn't, when I found out you didn't know, my heart sank into my stomach. I was like, I just felt terror because I knew you were coming back from the special. Everyone was making a whole deal of it. Everyone was talking about how excited we were about you coming by,

especially under the circumstances. And my first question to Nick and Brian was what's, what's Caleb's first scene? And then they told me, it was like, he's gonna be so pissed. And I was not pissed. I was just like, I was tired and confused. And when you guys see the movie, you'll understand

what I had to do. But day one, they were like, yeah, it's a really intense makeup. that we need to do. And then we gotta get you in this crazy hot costume in this warehouse in the summer with no AC. And I was like,

I'm usually very like, on set, I'm usually very like trying to play music and like keep the energy up. And when they started putting the costume on me, I was like, all right, let's get this quick.

To Nick and Brow's like, let's get this shot. Let's get the image that we need. Wasn't there like, wasn't there an established time frame in which you had to be in and out of the costume

because it was so hot? Were they like, we need to get all of this done? to do that. They were very kind to do that. Yeah, they were being very, very sweet because that was the only thing I had to do that day, thank God. And they were very sweet to be like, hey, it's really hot, we should do this quick. Yeah. Which was nice. Which is nice.

It was so fun making that movie. It was so much fun making that. Do you love it? I had a blast. Oh, it was great. I loved, the first time I saw it was at South by when we were all seeing it together, which is really, really exciting. And I was stoked for it. I think for a while, Nick and Brian know this. I feel comfy saying this is that I was terrified of it. Yeah. During the filming process and then during the edit, after hearing how things were just developing and it's their future debut

and so they would update me very, very consistently on what the ins and outs were looking like when it came to just getting the trailer figured out and even working out like what the title was going to be and why it ended up being named what it is and that was a weird thing to be in the loop of which I hadn't been used to. So that was a little bit more high stress

and I felt really good once we saw it. Yeah. I feel like it was, it felt like chaos. right up until everything worked out. Because they were still editing things like two days before it was going to be in the theater at the festival. Yeah. They were still working out

little, I think, like probably audio things more than anything. But so that it was pretty stressful hearing about it, but I was joke with the way it came out. It's really, I think it's so fucking dumb and funny. I think it's so fun. I think it was a lot of fun to make. Yeah. I remember

I said, because it's such, there's so many swings involved in the movie. specifically that it's one thing that was really fun to come to terms with over the course of making it was that if it's going to be as successful as like this movie if this type of movie is going to work it's always going to be for a very specific type of person who enjoys these types of movies and that's a success story as a whole I think like it became a thing where we knew if we were going to try to go for as broad of a reach of like let's see if we can get as many people to enjoy this as we can, it probably will not be a very good movie. Right.

We have to just kind of be very assured in the type of movie that we're making. And I think that it's better off for it. I think this was a really interesting choice for you. And I wanted to ask you about, because you and I have not gotten to talk about this actually. But like, you're coming off of obviously this little known indie show called Stranger Things that most people haven't seen or heard of. But you're in this interesting position where now you're like making, to me, it's a really, interesting choice for you as an actor to come off of something like stranger things and go do a movie like this what why did you do this movie like what was the reasoning i remember it was

a lot of right place right time and i'd finished filming the last season of the show in december of 24 and this movie shot in june of 2025 is when we started filming and we shot was that like through the whole summer pretty much yeah i'm trying to remember when we wrapped but we shot in the summer of 2025 and I remembered that the early months of 2025 being the whole thing that everybody around me was talking about was to relax as much as possible and to just

let it sit and reflect on the year that it took to make the show and hear about the edit and stuff and just enjoy some time off and I just I hated it. I hated the time off. I'm not kidding. I was I did it in a I hated it. I hated not doing anything.

And there was a conversation that came where I was, I was begging, like, please, please, please let me, my managers and my parents and my family and my friends, I remember saying,

I'm like, I just want to jump back into something because I just felt so antsy. And I didn't know what to do with spare time. Well, you've said your biggest fear of solitude. Yeah. This is like a thing about you. This is actually a thing.

I just, I don't enjoy it. Yeah. And this is the first time, my girlfriend was filming her show so she was in Vancouver and I was in the city in my apartment without a job actively happening

yeah didn't know what to do yeah I was I mean it's probably a valuable lesson like I would like to learn how to you know go about a day to day life without necessarily having a deadline or having anything to kind of dive into workwise that's probably a healthy thing to try to figure out but I did not I did not feel good doing it and so I remember I was just begging I was like, please, can I just jump into something.

Please, whatever comes through. Let me jump into it. And they were like, no, take your time, please wait. And so I just let it simmer until pizza movie came through. And I was still taping and auditioning for things. And they were like, okay, do something if it feels like you have to do it. And that's kind of weirdly what this felt like, because it was something that came up. And I've always said, no, I'm like, I have to be okay with, if I read something and I'm like,

okay, I will never be able to do something like this again if I pass on this. And if I'm okay with that, great. But if I have to like be aware, because there are some things that come through. I'm like, I saw this last week. Yeah. And that's fine. Like something like this or something that I think is adjacent to an experience like this will come through again so I can hold off.

It's like a type of thing that's going to continue to come up. Right. Sure, sure. Yeah. And this one was, I had to say, okay, I will, I know I will never do anything like this ever again if I pass on this. And for some reason I just, wasn't really okay with that. I don't know why. I just saw it and it was like,

yeah, I really just, I was like, so let's do the tape. And then I met Nick and Brian over the phone after taping. You taped for it. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I taped for Montgomery. Yes, I do know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I taped for Montgomery. I think they had a very different idea of what Jack was going to be, which made sense. They had a really good, I think,

idea of what Jack was originally supposed to be. And I think they wanted, the one thing that, came through by the time they were finishing up the casting process was Sean and Gaten look identical to each other. The whole thing is that it's like a dynamic duo comedy, buddy comedy and there's usually like a contrast and like a crazy like look difference that like kind of sets them apart and Sean and I are in for the same things constantly. We look, we just, yeah, too short curly hair Italian boys and it's like the

funny thing for us to play polar opposites but that's kind of what they loved about it. So we were both in for Montgomery and he had been attached to as Montgomery for a long time And they were just like exploring the world of it. And then I was like, can I just try Jack? And they were like, fine. And then I went in for the camera. And yeah, that so on and so forth. And then it kind of just felt into place.

But it was just, it just felt like summer camp instantly. And that's kind of why I became obsessed with it. Yeah. It just felt, yeah. The head exploding sequence when I read it, oh, shit, it's spoiled. That's fine. That's in the trailer. Don't worry about that.

It's in the trailer. We're fine. We're good. We're good. Guys, we're good. We're good. We're good. So, it's explode.

Just watch the fucking movie. The heads exploding in the trailer, so you're fine. That's weirdly what sold me. Because on, weirdly enough, I can't go into it yet. Yeah. Just know that there were things Gagin was thinking about the heads exploding. There were things, yeah.

I just was obsessed with the idea of spending the summer doing something as insane as that. Yeah. And I knew it was just going to be a blast. And I just wanted to do something really, really fun. And low pressure in the sense of, of, just doing something for the sake of making something fun and having fun doing it.

And yeah, I think it was a good, weird middle ground of this is going to be very challenging, but also scratching the itch that I had at the time. How old are you right now? I'm 23. You're 23. And when did you start Stranger Things? I was 12 when I booked the show. Christ.

Okay. So that's fucking insane. Okay. I can deal with that. Hold on. I can deal with that. I mean, that's such an interesting, like, position to be in. Like, Chances and I were talking before the episode, actually, that I feel like the only, and I could be wrong, maybe in the entire history of the show, someone will correct me in the comments, but I feel like the only other person we've had on the show that has experienced that kind of thing was Kieran and Shipka. Oh, for sure. I know Kiernan. It was great. Isn't she the best? Awesome. She's so fun. She's so fun. I love that girl. She's great. I miss her. We got to do a movie together a couple of years ago and I, yeah, she's coming. I think sweetheart is awesome. Sweethearts? It's great. Oh, it's fun. I saw it at Savannah when they showed it for, I think it was like,

the SCAD film festival. I was there. Me and Caleb drove down, Caleb McLaughlin drove down from Atlanta because Caleb's sister was there at the time

and so we all met up and saw it there and it was great. It is so fun. It really, Sweethearts asked the question can this very visibly 30 year old man play a high school student?

And we answered it with my character and the answer was not really. That's so funny. It's the Lord's work, though. We need to start accepting that as a universal rule. Sometimes teenagers are 30. I mean, for years, teenagers have been 30 in movies. Sometimes 30-year-olds need money and enjoyed reading a script.

I actually turned that. When they asked me to come in for that, I said no, because I was like, let's all just get real for a second. I'm not playing an 18-year-old in any universe. There's not enough prosthetics. There's not enough. And then, thank God, Jordan got a hold of my team and was like, why didn't he come in for this? Because normally when you pass, they're just like, cool. But thank God Jordan pressed on it.

It was like, we really do want to see you for this. And I really, really love that movie. But Kiernan is the fucking best. Yeah, Kiernan's really cool. I love her so much. But you've had this weird experience where you were on this huge show when you were like 12 years old, 13 years old. And now you're out of that. That show has ended.

What do you want? Like, what's the big goal? Oh, man. Come on. I don't necessarily mean in work, by the way. I mean, what do you want for your life? Oh, man. That's a very fun question.

I think what's interesting about the process of making Stranger Things was that it accelerated a lot of, or at least it brought forth questions that people usually have as they're entering their 20s of like, what would you think your career is going to be? Or what would you like your day-to-day look like? What's like a five-year plan? And those questions had kind of been answered at 13. where we knew what the five to ten your plan was going to be. I'm going to burp into the mic. That's why I'm not talking quickly. No, I'm going to... I had those little Starbucks eggs bites.

That'll do it. But the... Not the Starbucks ones, though. Not the pepper ones. Thank you. But they were like the generic frozen ones. Yes. Wow.

Very good. It's really interesting to hear that you're on that. They're so yummy. I find it hard to believe that you're like microwaving your own egg bites, but that's a beautiful testament. You may as well have just told me that you were out like tilling the land this morning Yeah, my ox and I were out working the land this morning, so I'm a little out of sorts Tummies a little rumbling. Yeah, which is fine

I It's a weird situation to jump into My 20s now with a lot there's what's really wonderful about it is that I grew on the show And I got to do what I love for so long and I got to do what I love for so long and I I'm very lucky in the sense that as I did it for a decade, I've come out of it with a love for it still, with a real deep love for what I do. Because I know a lot of people who start at 12 or 13 enjoy it at that point, and then they reach adulthood and they're like, this is just not what I want to do with my life. And that's such an understandable, normal process to go through.

There's so many things that you invest so much of your time with as a teenager, even as a younger kid and it's just like weirdly it's just something you grow out of and something you just you realize you want to go down a different path and sometimes that can be really stressful for younger people especially in careers because it's such a public endeavor and usually people who take a step back or find a career shift or just choose not to engage as much with it there's like a whole public spectacle of like where did they end up like what happened to like the rise and fall story which I think is unfair and kind of silly. But most people who do take a step back,

like if you talk to them personally, they're like, yeah, isn't that hilarious? Like when they're really just going off and pursuing so many other great things with their lives that aren't involved in this. Well, because we have this like societal worship of fame, which is not really a status or a process to envy at all, because we have this worship for fame

and everyone imagines that they would like to be famous, even though they probably wouldn't like the outcomes of that process. because we have that cultural imagination about it and because we assume that fame is the goal, we measure so many artists against that they're not measuring themselves against. Yeah. Just they go, oh, so and so fell off. And it's like, or so and so is like building a life and a family right now.

And they actually just don't want to be seen by you all the time. But it is, it's a really interesting thing that even when you're actively not taking a break and you're still working and you're doing things that are just not, 100% like identically aligned with the building of more and more and more attention in fame. if you're making choices that are not just about that, it's funny that we as a culture are kind of unable to process that

because so many people are not famous and imagine that they would like to be and imagine that they would be good at it and sustain it forever. The people who become famous through the career that they choose to do so, it's not a type of situation or even careers that are involved when people become famous through them. It's not known for its longevity. even like the people who are the most famous people in the world eventually gets you get it gets to a point where it just it's not sustainable yeah and if you spend so much of your time trying to sustain it you will be so miserable if that's your goal you're not gonna ever win you're not you're not going to win and that's weird it's like a weird point i recognize that i don't have a desire that's not at all why i enjoy this the show and having been on it for as long as i have the most incredible thing to come out of it is that it has facilitated my ability to continue working where I choose to. And that's rare and really, really cool.

And that's why I'm excited to jump into stuff that is just kind of buy me for me. That makes you feel very, very good. It makes you feel like I'm growing and learning more about myself. And that's why I'm excited to jump into it. And I, there's even, but there is a weird little poll from like voices in your head of, you have to make things that are projectable or you have to make things that are going to to maintain this level of visibility post stranger things. And I really don't, I'm just, I don't understand why I would really want to do that.

I don't have any real desire to pursue things for the purpose of that. Because it's not like something I rather enjoy. Have you at any point during all of this, had a fear that you would, that people would forget about you or that fame would fall off or that you need to maintain? Did you ever feel that and just came over, got over it? or did you not ever feel it at all? I,

yeah, I felt it. And I don't know why I felt that. Because I think it was a, I think it's a weird, there's a correlation that you create with those two things, I guess,

being mutually exclusive. Or the way for things to feel the same and the way for them to feel satisfying and, and be seen as, as you doing your job to the best, I mean, to the greatest extent that you,

can is in relation to how many people see it or how visible it is. And it really, the day to day doesn't necessarily really change for me either way. If I get to make things that I really, really like that nobody sees, and I think that's like the best case scenario for me personally. I think for like other people, it's like it would be nice for people to see what is that I do. But really, for me, it doesn't change a thing and that's cool to get used to. But there is, I think especially when you do it as a kid, when you're kind of instructed on what to value.

It kind of is instilled over time. So there is a process of breaking that down and kind of coming to terms with the things that I was told to value aren't necessarily what I truthfully do. And that's been fun to unpack and discover. And it's just getting rid of

the idea that if I don't engage with the attempt to be as visible as I can. Like visibility above all other things. Sure. not being the goal.

Yeah, if that's, if that's, not the goal in the slightest, and I think it'll be probably the happiest that I could be in doing this. And I think that would be,

yeah, that'd be lovely. But there is a weird little, like, self-conscious, like, oh, no, but other people I know and like are being seen more, why not me?

And so there's like, even something you don't want or something you don't like, when you see other people, like, kind of going down that road of that working out in that department, it's a little bit like,

uh, there's like a little bit of, like a sting there. And I don't know why. Because it's the cultural, that I think, I don't think those are your values based on what I know about you

and know what you're saying. But there is a, it's similar to like internalized homophobia or misogyny or any of these other things where like it does, it might not be your personal values, but there's a kind of like cultural, um,

pressure that almost can seep into you through osmosis. Because you're swimming in it. Like we're swimming in a society that values that and tells us that that's our value. Sure. And so it gets really hard to be like, all the time will have a thought that I'm like, I'm like, oh, I'm annoyed that that person got this thing. And then I go, you don't want that.

And then I go, wait, that's not your value. But it's that math of being like, wait, that's not even me saying that, but the voice is still in there. And it's like, yeah, other voices are able to make noise in my head. The, I think the work of figuring out, like, who we are and what we want is, is placing, like, which voice is your own

and which voice is in there from someone else. For sure. But I feel like watching you, I've watched you now, I watched you on set. I experienced working with you on set. You always knew your lines. You're always on time.

You're super polite and nice to everybody. You're like a consummate professional. Thank you. And you handle, I've watched you handle like the festival and I've seen you handle the way that people approach you. And I just feel that you're very mature and capable and like competent at all of this.

Oh, thank you very much. And I wonder, like do you feel like you had to grow up really quick? Yeah. Yeah, that was, there was a, there's a good conversation around it. It's like a weird ebb and flow of it of prioritizing a maintenance of innocence and a maintenance of childhood, but also understanding that if that were the case, then there will be problems that come up with that, that there will be growing pains there. And so there are certain situations where growing up quickly and kind of gaining a bit of a shell earlier is. beneficial, just objectively. Yeah.

And I think that's just understanding that learning that there are so many people that just do not have your best interest at heart and to develop the skills and tools to recognize what that looks like and to let that hurt your feelings because that's a good thing and then move on from those people, that's not something you learn until your adulthood usually and that's something you have to pick. In this, when it's an industry that is kind of, I mean, so much of the conversation around kids in the industry has been dominated by how many adults have tried to take advantage of them through that process. And that's just something that you're, but what's really great about it in the context of me and the other kids in the show was that we were told about this the minute we started working on it.

It wasn't anything that we had to discover, anybody around us had to discover. The whole big wave of everything that happened over Nickelodeon and even like the Brat Pack days of hearing about, even, the little things like lack of education on set and lack of child labor laws like that had all been sorted out and then of course there's so much that comes through about understanding that like in this industry

there was so much predatory behavior as well to look out for and because we were aware to look out for these things and to have our parents close to us at all times and to understand that as cool as everybody is and as fun as it is to engage in a professional in a work

in a workplace and talk to adults, it feels like you're going up faster to keep everything kind of at arm's reach was inscribed very early. And of course, when you're 13, you ask why. And then they tell you why. You're like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah.

And so that's weird to learn very early, but very necessary to ensure our safety in that type of environment. Yeah, for sure. 100%. there was so much emphasis on ensuring safety. They always were. Yeah.

Which is very nice. I feel like even just the, like I had to grow up very quickly in a different way because I was poor and my mom was like working all the time. So it was like this different kind of thing. But I relate to people who got like successful at their career really early in this way. That I'm like, I see similar traits that I'm like, I knew how to carry myself in adult spaces at an age that I,

it was only beneficial to know these things, but I probably shouldn't have known them. sure and I think like a lot of it nets out positive like I think there's so many positive things about like you're 23 years old and you're like are running a massive fucking business you know you have you have like your pick of creative projects you know how you like to work you like you show up on time you know your lines like these are things that like a lot of people getting a job at 23 wouldn't fucking do you know what I mean that you would that a lot of us would be like well he's late again and he doesn't know his lines you know what I mean right so a lot of it nets out positive but it is an interesting thing to get so much attention to at the age that you got it and have handled it so positively. I just feel like that must have been a crazy experience. I think so. But it's all, it's the only experience I had.

Yeah. So it's not like there's any reference point outside of it. There's not, it's not like I can really compare and contrast because it's just the experience I lived in, especially when you're, you normalize everything when you're a kid. And that's why breaking down so many things that were not normal is so hard to do in your adulthood because the whole point of being a kid and protecting yourself is normalizing

things that aren't normal around you. And so that's why it never really felt. As much as people told me and all of us how crazy of a situation it was that we were in. We were always around each other and were able to, I guess, relate to each other or just, we never really had conversations about, oh, man, this is weird, right?

Because it wasn't to us, and it just didn't really... I think it was weird or probably for the older members of the cast, probably the teenagers who started the show at 23. Yeah. Yeah, Natalia was like 19. Joe, Joe Kiri was like 23, I think, when he started the show, probably around the same age. So they had that lived experience of becoming an adult and then a sudden shift. And that, I think, is probably way more of a boat rock than doing it at 13. Yeah.

Weirdly enough. What do you think is that, I mean, that was really interesting what you said about normalizing things that aren't normal. I feel like that's a really good thing for all of us to think about in terms of just like a lot of things. that are happening in general in the world right now. Yeah. Like what we get comfortable with, even though we shouldn't be comfortable? For sure.

What do you think is the most abnormal thing that became normal for you during that time? Is there anything that sticks in your mind when you say that? Are you just kind of like general as a... I think just intense, like people pleasing to adults in a weird way. I think there's this mentality.

I think it comes from a place of meaning well. People are way more aware of their boundaries. now with me in my 20s and they were when I was 13. Which seems odd. You think that anytime you were interacting with somebody who is a child who is obviously like the first thought is like, all right, where's your parent? Can I ask them if I can say hi and talk about your show? But there was a weird mentality of like, ah, yeah, I get over here, kid.

Nah, you're fine. You want to take this picture with you real quick? Right, yeah. Which is a little bit weird. Of course, I was like, yes, of course, of course. And anytime I'd say no, there was always like, you little shit mentality. I remember that happened once or twice. I remember I was in Denver for a convention

and I was eating dinner with my dad and somebody had come over and asked for a picture. And I remember I was like, I said, I'm not going to do one right now just because if I take one here, then sometimes because it's a very busy place and I've already been clocked elsewhere that usually when I take one that it's like,

okay, great, then I'm willing to take pictures so other people come up. And I remember be like, but let me come to you when I finish shut my meal before I leave. And then I always felt like because she was around my age at the time too. And then her mom came over

and just like cursed me out. And, whoa. Yeah, was like, you are not famous enough to say no to a picture. Who the fuck do you think you are? That type of thing. My dad did not take like nicely to it. Yeah. I can't imagine that was received. No, it wasn't received well at all.

Yeah, I've never seen my dad closer to just like drop kicking a stranger. in the head. And yeah, it was so embarrassing. And obviously, in retrospect, they are in the wrong. But ever since then, for years after that, I always said yes to pictures after that. Yeah.

And even in situations where I probably could have been, like, it's not the best time. Even like now, I'll be running painfully late to something that I'm already late for and someone will stop me. And I think it's very much a good time to be like, I really wish I could. I just have to keep on running because I'm already late for something. And even now, I'm like, okay, yeah.

And I always like to. I don't have an aversion of doing it at all because it's the only job in the, it's one of the only jobs in the world where people actively stop you in a day and say, I appreciate what you do for a living. That's really cool. It's made a difference in my day to day. And that's something that's incredible to hear. It's very, very rare that because everybody's job makes a difference to everybody. But it's rare that people hear that on a daily basis. And that's really, really special.

So I want to acknowledge that and make that interaction. special for somebody who may like the show. So I very rarely, I don't usually say no to pictures at all, but like in those weird little times where it may not be the best time to do it, I get so anxious at the idea. I'm like, I really hope that a mom doesn't curse me out. Well, that's insane. It was so my, yeah, that was tough.

April 15th, tax deadline is coming fast. That's my new take on it. Like, confrontational. But don't worry. But don't worry. You can hand off your taxes to an Intuit TurboTax expert today. Doing taxes the old way comes with so many frustrating steps that can make the whole process feel so overwhelming.

Things like waiting around for someone else to get around to doing things on their schedule. Yeah, that's what I deal with. That's what I deal with with y'all all the time. Worrying about whether or not they mess something up. Chasing updates. And all this only gets worse. The closer that April 15th deadline we get with Intuit TurboTaxe. You can hand off your taxes to a dedicated full service expert.

They understand your specific tax situation. And they can do your taxes for you entirely from start to finish. Online or in person at one of their new tech-enabled store locations. Have your tax worms directly imported right into the app and hand everything off to your Intuit TurboTax expert? While they work on your taxes for you and work tirelessly to get you every dollar you deserve, you can go about your normal routine and do things you actually care about. like bike rides with friends, a stroll around a bookstore,

or, and I'm always saying this, taking yourself on a movie date. My taxes are always getting the way of taking myself on a movie date. So that's why we've just had it. Don't wait. Visit turbotax.com and hand off your taxes

to an intuit turbo tax expert today. folks we've all used the same excuses when it comes to avoiding seeing a therapist things like it's out of my budget I don't know if my insurance even covers it or that classic what if I can't find someone who's a good fit for me

lucky for y'all our friends at Rula are here to make all those worries disappear by making getting into therapy easier than ever be honest how many times if you thought I should probably look into getting a therapist and then you just didn't do it

plenty of people are in the exact same boat okay and rule is here to help they make it incredibly easy to get quality care with therapists who take your insurance and who actually have openings with 93% of patients reporting symptom improvements after signing up and the sign up part

with Rula this genuinely takes like five minutes none of that I'll come back to this when I feel like it's stuff huh and with Rula you won't break the bank Rula works with your insurance company offering personalized cost estimates up front with no hidden fees.

Their sessions cost an average of just $15 with insurance and most appointments are available as early as the next day. So head to rule a dot com. That's rula.com to find a therapist the easy way. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. SquareSpace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business. Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place.

We all could use a good website in this day and age. I tell you what. And Squarespace has so many awesome features to get yours up and running. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences, showcase your offerings. Showcase your offerings. With a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments.

Plus streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Wow. Get discovered fast with integrated Squarespace SEO tools. every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto-generated site map, and more. So you show up more often on search engines and engines and bring in more of your ideal customers. Head to Squarespace.com slash showtrue for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code so true to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Okay. We need to talk about this. Because it's kind of a big deal. Fablix just dropped denim. Yes, real denim. Not athleisure inspired. Actual structure, durable, premium feel denim. If you know Fabletics, you probably think of them for performance gear.

So seeing them step into denim, it's a serious level up. They have millions of loyal members who trust their fit. So seeing them bring that same innovation into denim is exciting. And this is a brand new drop. New styles, new washes, and sizes will not sit around forever. The only downside to great denim is the price. But because this is their launch, new VIPs unlock major savings on the, their first purchase. So trying this new denim right now actually makes sense. Now here's the part

that actually shocked me. I'm telling you guys, I saw this. I was shocked. When you sign up as a new VIP with Fabletics, you'll get deals on denim for just $29, which is honestly unheard of for this level of quality. These don't feel like $29 jeans, y'all. From what I understand, this is launch pricing. So you should grab it while it's still at that rate. The denim is built for comfort without compromising structure. They look sharp. They feel good and they move with you. It's that balance of flattering and comfortable that just gives you the extra confidence when you throw them on. I've always thought, why can't jeans be more comfortable? They look so sharp, but are so restrictive.

Fabletics is solving that problem with jeans that actually move with you and the waist fits right. No weird tightness or awkward bunching. Awkward bunching. I love it. Fabletics already has incredible deals and I've got an exclusive offer just for my listeners. Listen to me now, listeners. Get $29.0.000 denim when you sign up as a new VIP, just head to Fabletics.com slash So True.

Take a quick style quiz and be sure to select So True when prompted to unlock your offer. That's Fabletics.com slash so true. Well, but again, though, that to me, that to me is an illustration of that thing of like, this is, again, someone who has not experienced that level, a level of attention at scale that we might call fame. They haven't experienced fame.

They imagine that they would like it and they imagine they would do it better than people that are doing it now. But they go, I would never, they go, if I were you, I would never say no to that picture.

That's what's going on in the brain. And that's the mentality I had jumping in. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm being presented with this. Yeah. And I keep hearing,

I keep hearing stories about how people are just, dicks once this becomes a part of their life. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. And so I spent so much of my time, I guess trying to prove to myself that I was not going to do that. And that's been a weird adjustment too.

Like recently, I'm like, it's okay. someone doesn't necessarily like me in a specific interaction, that's fine. If it's, of course, I'm never actively going to try to be addicted to somebody. Right. Like, ever in a day to day. It's just, I just don't enjoy that.

That's not, that inherently kind of scares me. Yeah. How do you, I'm sure that must have been a pretty sudden shift on your end for it becoming pretty intense very quickly. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's only getting weirder by the day. For sure.

I, uh, you remember, it being like, oh, shit. Yeah. There are like little ones over time because at first it was just like it was kind of like an if you know you know type of thing Where it's like if I'm in Brooklyn or L.A. or Chicago and I go to a place where there's gay people one or two people are gonna want a picture Cool and that was like I was like cool no worries that's like a sweet spot right totally manageable 100% oh this is awesome. Oh, this is great you can kind of turn it on and turn it off It's like if I'm in like rural fucking Kansas at a gas station. I'm safe

I'm good to be normal and then if I want if I really want some attention today it's like why just get to Chicago and get to that gay coffee shop. You know what I mean? When you went home because you're Kansas City, yeah? Right. Was it kind of a haven of being able to like... It still kind of is. I mean, people don't fully leave me alone in Kansas City,

but it's so respectful and I will say like I was just Trixie Mattel and I were just in Kansas City at the same time and I was like taking her around and trying to socialize her like a sick dog, you know? Yes, of course. Teach her what it's like to be around people. These drag queens don't know

how to act in public. So I was trying, I was like, take the makeup off. Let's shake some hands. Let's, you know. I'm trying, I taught her, please, and thank you. That was new for her. How'd she do? Better, she doesn't bite anymore.

That's good. Yeah, she doesn't bite anymore. And the least training we're working on. But I was, yeah, I was taking her out for walks. And people were, yeah, it was just like, it was a very respectful, like, even when people did, it was very much an acknowledgement of like, I'm so sorry, I know I'm bothering you. I love your stuff. And then a quick, like.

And that's 99.9%. of interactions. It was really sweet. I've gotten, I will say, as things have upticked in intensity, I have started to set some boundaries and I never thought I would have any.

Right. But getting cornered in bathrooms. Bathrooms is tough. Bathrooms is weird as fuck. You ever get a shoulder tap at the urinal? Yes. Yes, I've gotten a shoulder tap of the urinal. Dick in hand.

Could I get a photo? I love your word. And also, I'm gay. So like, be careful. You start tapping me at the urinal. I'm like, I don't know what they were happening.

I'm ready to have that day, but we need to make sure. I know this is the airport. Yeah, truly. Chase down the street is another thing. Like, that's been happening more and more. Yeah. I don't like chase down the street. Please don't chase me.

I don't like, because I'm not a fast runner. So it's not like I'm going to catch me. That's what's scary. Hey, you'll get there. You know, it's like if you have the power and they get fully. You know in, in horror movies where the, the killer only really walks at a brisk speed and you can't seem to catch them. You will catch me like that.

You didn't need to pick up your pace at all. You're going to get me. Yeah, that stuff. So I've started to be a little like, or if I'm having like a private conversation, I've started to be a little better about being like, thank you. That's so sweet.

I'm in the middle of a kind of private thing right now, but have a great night. Yeah. And the thing you said, I've really employed around being like, hey, not right now, but on my way out, I'll come find you.

That's been really helpful to be like, I'm not going to disrupt my whole flow of being in this room right now and like open up a gate, but on my way out, I'll come over and do it. But what, you know, it's just an interesting,

it is an interesting thing because the thing you said about people, it being the only job where people tell you they like your work, it means the world to me. Anyone cares about what I do. And then also, I have to, if I, I just feel like if you engage with it too much,

not you, not you, Caleb, I feel like if I Caleb engage with it too much and think about the number of people who watch and listen to me too much, I will become an insane person. And I am trying so hard to maintain

normalcy and a connection to the real world that I'm just like, I almost view it as like, help me out. Like, help me maintain some normalcy. And if I express a boundary, like, consider helping me out, you know? Do you look at the numbers? Do you look at the engagement? No, but it's known.

You know what I mean? Like, I know, like, I know about how many people this show reaches a month. I know about how many people have seen the HBO special. I know, like, you know, I know when I go on someone else's show and it's, if it happens to be one of their most watched episodes or something, I can or I understand even too Like when people come up to me My approaches are interesting

Because a lot of them have a different thing They're coming up for Sure That they're like I loved you on so and so show Or I loved your HBO special So I can actually tell by what they're saying to me Where they're coming to me from That's pretty special

Do you know what I mean? Is that not really cool? It's cool but it's weird Because they're getting different Like a person It's funny A person who comes up to me Because they loved me on Zway

Is very different from a person Who comes up to me Because they loved me on Royal Court Sure. You know? And so it's almost like I start to think about the interaction I'm about to have. Yeah. You know?

That's interesting. Yeah. Does that make you change the way that you approach the rest of that conversation? Yeah, because I know what they want. You know what I mean? Like if they love me from Zway, they want me to be kind of mean to them. They want me to be a little. They want me to be like nice shirt, you know, or something like that.

Like that's what they think I am. Yeah. Right. You know? And if they know me from, it's cool. Yeah. It's cool. What's so true to you?

Oh man. Do you ever so true for this episode? Dude, I have to tell you, do not feel any way about it. There is something about this show. Nobody comes with one. Do you know what it is? I have one that's fun. I think that Zemeckis' Christmas Carol

is objectively a perfect movie. Whoa. Whoa. Dayton, you're going to get canceled. Okay, tell me about Zemeckis' Christmas Carol. This is the one with Jim Carrier. Yes. With the really awkward looking mocap

before I think, it was like the Polar Express style motion capture in context of a Christmas carol. And most people like, it's just disturbing and it looks weird and it's off-putting.

And it's just, I tried to like introduce my kids to the story and they just left terrified. Like the ghost of Christmas present like disintegrates into like a laughing skeleton. Yeah.

And but dude, that story is terrifying. Yeah. That story is about how insanely, guttingly terrifying it is for this dude, and that's why he changes his life. Yeah, ghosts visit you to tell you that you're living your life wrong. You're going to go to hell. It's not an upbeat tale. That's what it is.

It's like, if you don't stop doing this, you're going to, you're going to hell. I guarantee that you are. My kids couldn't get on board with it. Like, I feel like we were like weirdly watered down with the Mickey Christmas Carol. Yeah. And like, goofy coming in with the chains. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah.

It's funny. It's like cute and cool and it looks fun. And like the Muppets one is great. It's a classic story. But at its core, it is an absolute night. It's literally a heroine nightmare. It's an absolute nightmare. Yeah.

And that movie looks like it. And I'm obsessed with it. And Jim Carrey plays Scrooge and all three ghosts. Yeah. Well, he's a, he's incredible. Yeah. Does he play Ghost of Christmas yet to come? There's no lines.

I don't know if it's his body doing the pointing. You don't talk about it. I don't know. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. It's crazy. There's some things that don't really work. There's like a crazy sequence in the Ghost of Christmas yet to come where you get shrunken down and he gets shrunk and he like surfs on an icicle.

Yeah. It's bizarre and weird. But it is actually the only time that I think that like that book scares me and that movie scares me. And so I relate that to me like they did this the right way. Yeah. And the cast is crazy. The cast is awesome. Who's all in it?

I don't think I know. Gary always is in it. Oh, fuck. And yeah. I love him. Robin Wright's in it as well. Love her. Of course she's in it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's awesome. Yeah. Gary Oldman's in it. Gary Oldman. He plays Jacob Marley. Why the fuck didn't I know Gary Oldman is in this?

This movie rocks. And the thing is that I thought that I would talk to film buffs about this and be like, all right, let's get together. This movie rocks, right? Your convenient clandestine meetings of film buffs. Being like, just so we're all on the same page. This movie rocks. And everybody. but he says I'm insane.

Yeah. I don't think I'm insane. I don't think I'm insane. Let's put that on the record. I think in this context, I think people don't give it a shot because it's like maybe the animation doesn't hold up,

but how many amazing movies don't hold up visually? Yeah. That we don't discount those movies for. Like Empire Strikes Back doesn't look up to par. It's still a perfect movie. Yeah, well, you love Star Wars.

I love Star Wars for sure. You're not kidding around about Star Wars. I don't. I don't talk around about Star Wars in the slightest. Yeah. What is your favorite of the Star Wars movies? I know that Empire Strikes Back is the best movie. Yeah.

But my favorite one to watch growing up is Return of the Jedi. Yeah. It's just like the most like fun space adventure vibe. Yeah. But I remember, did you see David Cornswet talk about this on Royal Court? No. He talked about his order in which he likes to watch Star Wars and I had this. I agreed with him wholeheartedly.

Yeah. And I remember, I was like, I've never heard anybody else mention that this is the way to do it. where you go 4-5-1-2-3-6. 4-5-1-2-3-6. Some people see you can skip Phantom Menace. In that order. And which one's that? That's the first one chronologically.

That's Darth Mall, Quagong-Gon-Gin. 4-5-2-36? Then it would be the sequence? 4-5-2-3-6. This is for people who have never seen Star Wars before because you still get the twist in Empire Strikes Back, the classic. Yeah.

I can say it's his dad, right? Totally. No, I think you're totally safe. The window has expired on spoiling that. I think it's fun. It's been 50 years. Yeah, I think it's fun. Dude,

I think during COVID, I got on a big kick. I watched every single minute, no phone, very focused of The Crown on Netflix. Oh, it's great. Okay. And I posted about, it's incredible. It's incredible.

Every performance legendary. Insane. And I posted something on Instagram about something that happened, one of the episodes, and someone legitimately got mad at me. and we're like, no spoilers. And I was like, hey, this happened. I'm like, I can't spoil an event of the royal family.

This occurred. This infuriates me. Do you remember, like, I know that there's a great community around it. And, like, this is why the show works so well. And it's why, like, I love when theater kids engage with shows and make it their whole personality. But I was always so fuming when everyone was, like, talking about Hamilton saying, I'm Team Angelica. I'm like, you can't. You can't be team, these are real people.

What do you mean your teen, Angelica? This is the historical event. Yeah. What do you mean? You can't ship this. There's no shipping. There's no shipping. There's no shipping, Angelica.

That's so fucking funny. He married Eliza. That's historically what happened. And you can't be like, man, I just wish that they ended up together. Yeah. What are you talking about? There was no writer's room. That's not how this goes.

This is a thing that happened. How do you think that that family would, like, just, I, Also think about that of what do we think founding fathers would look at Hamilton and be like that's like the story that's the way it's being expressed I think it would give them like an aneurysm. Of course. You know that that like the whole thing of what do you show a Victorian child to kill them on site? Yeah. Is that the saying? Oh sure. Totally. Yeah. If you showed of it. This would make a Victorian child's head explode or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Hamilton for the founding fathers. Hamilton for the founding fathers. Dude, I hope I get to come back and see some shit after I'm gone. Fly on the wall. I want to be fly on the wall. It's my girlfriend. friend and her best friend are best friends like whole like belief in the afterlife. They're like I want if I can believe in anything and want anything.

It's fly on the wall. Do you want when you die, do you want a celebration of life or morning? I say to be to bring levity, I want celebration of life. But I'd be bum if some people didn't cry. I want morning. I want morning. If I died tomorrow, my ideal is that every person in this room, including you who I just met, does not recover.

And I mean ever. I mean, never recovers. Lifelong. I mean, if you guys out with me by 50 years, I hope 50 years from now on this day, of the day that I hope you wake up, just on a random Tuesday, I hope you wake up unable to go to work.

I hope you are so devastated by my loss. Celebration of life? I don't think so. No, no, no, no dancing at my, no dance, no remembrances, no funny stories. Weeping tears, morning black veils a state funeral

I want everyone I want flags at half mass for eternity this is good yeah it's like in every movie every like movie when there's a funeral sequence

where you see all the black umbrellas like open up and then the rain starts to fall how many times are we gonna do that in a funeral movie and I want it in real life and you want it in real life I want that for Caleb

this is good to know I want that bad please Gaten promise me you'll make this happen I mean that's crazy if you die I'm the first one to text you're like hey guys

by the way. Caleb specifically asked me. I don't know if you remember the episode. Not to be a pain. I know you guys are going through a lot. Yeah, you text my mom. You're like, hey, girl. Saw you posting pretty jovialy on Instagram.

He doesn't want you to. It's only been a few years since we lost him. Maybe knock it off. No, I want mourning. I want morning. You believe in reincarnation? I would like to. You have a faith?

What is your faith? I'm pretty pessimistic about this thing. Thank you. At the moment. This thing. I wish I wasn't. I'm going to tell you on this thing. Yeah.

Because also there is a vibe. I guess I guess I'm an atheist. But that's such a like an eye roll of a thing to say you are. No. But I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual. No, because their money is green. Right.

Still stream pizza movie. Yeah, yeah, please, please. If you're a devout Catholic, still stream pizza movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you. For sure. But I get in this conversation specifically a lot. And also, it's an awkward conversation to have because I've lost people who,

and like that has made people in my family more religious. And I've lost people, like suddenly my cousin passed and he was only 19. And that weirdly, like that ignited some faith and some, some, I guess, more talk of God and love and stuff like that amongst family members. And then for me, I just, like, it didn't, like, spark that. And so that's awkward to kind of when, like, discussions come up.

And it's not, it's rarely discussed. Like, I've talked about this, like, in public settings. And I'm like, oh, man, I hope my grandma's not bummed. Yeah. That that's the way I feel about it. Were you raised in something? Yeah, I was raised pretty religious. Which one?

Generally Protestant, I guess. I went to Methodist churches. Yeah. I went to a Methodist church growing up. but I think because that was closer to where my house was and my mom was friends with the people in choir. Yeah, obsessed with her.

She was like, I like the choir and it's close to the house. Guess what? We just became Methodist. Yeah, she was really just growing up. She went on traveling. She traveled to Europe once on not a missionary situation. She wasn't like preaching,

but she was with a musical group that would have like, Christian-based music to crowds of people in like Latvia. Maybe. I like that. It's pretty cool. I don't ask her about this way.

I do not ask her about this enough. That's a crazy situation. Do you know what? I have advice for you. I have one piece of friend-to-friend advice for you. Have you ever, do you know the New York Times questions to fall in love? The question set.

It's like 37 questions or something. It's in brackets of intimacy. I've done it with many people that I love in my life. It's meant for part. I have heard about this. It's really good. Yeah. It's really good.

The third bracket, there's some things that like when I did it with my grandma and my mom that you skip because it's meant for partners. So it's like, hold hands and look into each other's eyes and like that part you don't do that. Because it's meant for like physical. But you skip those ones with your anyone older in your life that you love, grandparents' mom, the next time you get a chance, sit down with them for like two or three hours going along drive, sit in the house, something, ask these questions. Things came up with, I am very close to my mom in my grandma. I thought I knew everything about them. Things came up that I have never heard them talk about. Oh, it sounds like...

Never. Weirdly, that sounds like so much fun. It's amazing. That sounds amazing. It's amazing. And I learned things about both of them. I feel like I understand there have been multiple times since then. This has been a couple years ago that I've done it with both of them. There have been multiple times that we've been in some kind of dynamic that, you know, whatever.

We're just in our relationship that I have remembered something they've said. And I've been like, this is where this is, this is why you do this. This is why you're like this. That's so interesting. This is why we're not connecting on this. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I would love to do this with my mom

because she's had a crazy life. Yeah? Yeah, for sure. She's had, or just like the craziest type of upbringing. And one that I respect a ton because there was so much in her childhood growing up that was like, it felt like the world was just out to like kick her ass.

Yeah. Her and a brother. And growing up, it's another thing. You normalize even hearing stories about this. About like she was raised by her grandparents because her parents just weren't in the picture. And I was like, oh, that's normal. and I grew up later.

I'm like, oh, that's not normal in the slightest. Yeah. That's so nuts, especially because my dad has, like, had, like, the polar opposite situation. His parents had him when they were 18 and finished having all four of their kids by 23. Wow. And are still married today. Yeah. And I have, like, a lot of cousins and we're very, very close on that side.

So they had, like, the polar opposite situation. And it's so cool to see both sides of that. But I never. And that's also not normal. That's also not normal. That's like, that's not the norm. That's what's so interesting. Yeah, the most important.

are opposite types of situations. Yeah. And that's why I think it's so interesting how they connected when they first, my parents aren't married anymore. But they went, I was so, I'm so curious as to how those two opposite situations kind of attracted towards each other. Yeah.

And yeah. You're kids? I think so, yeah. Yeah. I do. Oh, I love that. I, for sure. I don't have any plans on it for a good chunk of time.

Yeah, like, six, seven months from now. Yeah, right. Like, enjoy yourself from life. For sure. Take a break. For sure. By 25. But in a few weeks, I'm going to be a.

Yeah. I've already a few months for sure. Yeah, I definitely, I've always said, I'm like, yeah, it's like a given. But I don't want to approach it with the mindset of, oh, that's a given. Because I think that's how most people approach bringing children into the world and bringing new lives into the world is, oh, that's kind of the process of growing up and living life. And that's like a stepping stone and kind of just a right of passage. But I think that there's a lot of thought that can go in to understand.

Do I have my shit figured out enough to be able to realistically raise a functioning human being and do it well? Yeah. So, yeah, I would love to. Not yet. No, not right now. Not right now. Do you feel generally happy and optimistic about the world? Is that your outlook?

What's going on? How are you feeling about everything? Crazy time to be alive. Crazy time to be alive. That's the go-to. That's the go-to. I almost to spill my coffee. I am individually a very happy person,

but I don't want to just be like, yeah, life's fucking awesome. Because it's also, I'm a very happy person because I'm in the luckiest situation that human beings are in. And I recognize that fully. Like there's like the amount of, there's just an overwhelming bucket load of privilege

that comes along with me being able to acknowledge the fact that I get to live happily and feel safe every day. And I don't think that discounts my ability. I still feel like I have, I can feel comfy being like, yeah, I'm very happy. Many people have that and don't feel happy.

For sure, for sure. So it's still an accomplishment. It's for sure, it's an accomplishment. But I do, I don't want to be preachy in the sense of talking about, like, and you can do it too. Or it's like, that's insane to think about. Yeah.

I am a straight white guy who is financially, secure at 23. Yeah. In the United States, which is... Not bad. Not bad. Not bad, huh? As far as it goes. It's pretty good.

As far as the cards are dealt, that's a pretty... A lot of people... Yeah, like, I recognize fully that it's like, I can't just be like, what are people talking about? Yeah, yeah. This place rocks. You're like, everyone, cheer up. No, I'm... Like, I'm fully aware that it would be insane of me

for my life's message, be like, why don't we just smile more? Yeah. Because, yeah, that's insane. That would be insane of me. But like I said,

there are plenty of people that have those, there are people that have the circumstances that you have, or at least some of them and do not find themselves to be happy.

And I know that's not like, yeah, there's, that's not the key to, there's like, the situation being on paper as good as it can get. That's not necessarily

the key to being necessarily a very happy person because that does not guarantee that in the slightest. I feel the same way you do. I talk about being happy all the time and trying to have fun and enjoy life. And I increasingly, it's funny because it's taken a turn for me just in the last three years.

When I was first talking about that stuff on stage, it genuinely did feel kind of like revolutionary because I was poor and no one cared about my work. So I was like, the fact that I'm happy is crazy. And then as that has changed, I'm like, this is starting to hit a little different, I guess. Yeah. But it is, I think you have to be a some level of optimistic to intentionally want children to intentionally, even to say like, yeah, I think I'll have kids. And I'm always interested in that because I have so

many friends that are so smart and doing well and they make a good living and they're safe and comfortable. They have a house that has running water and electricity and these are privileges. And they are like fuck no. I want nothing to do with that. Wow. So I'm always interested in people who do because I'm like, well, that's interesting. There's

some level of optimism involved in that, I feel. I would like there to be a legitimate reason. I would like that to be normalized. Optimism? Optimism, but when it comes, I think, for sure, optimism. But I mean in the decision-making to have kids, but a lot of times, it's not a decision.

A lot of times it's like, oh, damn, all right, we're in this situation. We're going for it, we're going for it. Yeah. And that's how I came along. That's how both of my siblings came along. It was like, oh, shit. Whoops.

There we go. And I understand that that's probably the vast majority of how people are brought to this earth. Yeah. Damn, I should have wrapped it out. Yeah. Well, I wasn't quick enough. So we're having a kid.

Yeah. Which is crazy. So I understand that that's just like a different situation. But in the in the concept of family planning, of understanding like when when it is you're deciding of kids, I would like to normalize there being a legitimate reason as to why I feel that I would service bringing a person here. Yeah. And raising them. Like an intention.

An intention. A thought about it at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's, and that's a great, I wouldn't know yet.

Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't be able to think right now and say, this is my reason for why I think bringing a human into the world with another human is the right thing to do for both of us and the person we make. Yeah. And that, yeah, I just, I've got time to figure that out. So it's not a priority for me. Yeah.

What makes you the happiest? When are you the happiest? Oh, that's a really good question. what I've started to understand and really love is that I can feel at a weirdly peak level of happiness that I think that I have the ability to feel under very under very different circumstances. I think that's been a fun adjustment. It's because I believe I'm like, I will only be happy if I'm engaging in my life's passion, where I want to do it, when I want to do it. And other than that, I'm not doing it right. And there are times where I'm not actively working.

and I just have been weirdly really in sync with the people in my life outside of work, and that's why I feel super happy. And then there are times where I'm not really feeling engaged with my family or with my friends or my girlfriend, and there's kind of things that just feel out of sync for a while, but I'm working on something that I really, really love, and I'm still very, very happy. So that's, I think it comes in waves,

and I figure that out as it comes along. I've noticed that I feel happiest when this is a very selfish way of looking at it because it's just like when all the circumstances are aligned for like the things that I love. I love being able to work in the city where I live when my friends and family are also working and living in that same area as me because there are times. That's very rare. So anytime I notice that, I'm like, oh man, these are all the things I love about what I get to do with my short bit of time here.

And that's a great moment. And that always feels very good. best when you can leave work and be like, oh, I can see someone for dinner. I can see someone for dinner. I can sleep in my bed tonight. I can go and sleep in my bed. Oh, it's lovely. It's so lovely. And that's the one thing that's hard. Like with this job, it's like most of the time when you're working, it's not at home. Yeah. It's just a job that you travel for. To me, the worst situation is working in New York on overnights. Because then it's like, I'm working 3 p.m. to 7 a.m. Yeah. I am sleeping all day, which is so unnatural.

It's so weird. And then I'm going straight back to work. but I'm in the city where so many of my friends and loved ones are doing things. I'm like, I almost wish I was in fucking Vancouver or like, like... There was a disconnect. Croatia or something. So I'm like, then I could just be like,

oh, the reason I'm not seeing anyone is because I'm away instead of like, oh, if I slept two hours less, I could squeeze in a lunch with someone, but then I'll be tired at work. Like the math even being possible. That, it's rare for that to line up. Working days in New York is working normal days in New York is great, especially on like a sound stage or something

where you get out quicker. You got, that's, it basically is close. Anytime you're working inside, it's basically as close to a nine to five as this job can get. Yeah, and it's awesome. It's awesome. That was Devil Wears Prada. It's on a... How long did you shoot on that? Like 17 days. Nice. Mine was quick and it was like, it was gorgeous. It was on this beautiful soundstage. Amazing. Where did you? We ran like a machine in Queens. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It was awesome. And then there were all the other sound stages everyone would file out into this like one shared street where everyone was like eating and reading and costume and getting their hair done while they walk. And it was just.

just like, we're making movies, baby. This is what it's all about. We're making films. This is lovely. I'm just watching, I was, I would, between takes, I would just go sit outside because it was really nice.

It was like fall weather. I would go sit outside, like in my costume and wait to be in the next take because there'd be a set up. I was in the background of a lot of Merrill scenes, which is an honor. That's awesome. But sometimes I'd be framed out or whatever,

so I'd have like three hours to kill. For sure. And I'd just sit outside and read my book and talk to whoever was going by. And what was really fun was, it was the first time I've been around long enough now. made enough things that,

uh, just barely, that I ran into people I knew from past projects. Whoa. Like I'd run into like a PA from three movies ago. And it was so fun. It's so fun. I was like, it's so small world. I know people. It really does make it make you understand how few, I think people,

and relative to like how, how big the industry seems. Especially on the crew side. On the crew side, the amount of people that just like cycle through. You just keep running into these. And it's someone awesome. It's like, oh my God, that fucking that like, uh, key grip that I loved from that movie is now here working on this thing and we get to hang out all over again. It rocks. It's the best

thing ever. It's so fun. Yeah. It feels like, I don't know, it feels like starting school. I never went to summer camp, but I don't know why I keep on bringing up summer camp and the things I'm loving summer camp right now. I'm, I keep on saying, summer camp's on the brain. But it would be like almost like you find out that a friend you made at camp is going to your same school the next year. Yeah. It's like, oh! And it's like

you get to pick up where you left off and you thought, because you did so many goodbyes and it's like, I really like getting to Oh, this is awesome. You exchange numbers. You're like, well, hang. And then a few weeks pass, and then you inevitably work on other things. And, like, the bummer of it is that you realize

it's just like, you rarely get around to doing so. And so it's really fun. When you jump back onto a set and you get to just immediately, yeah, fall right back into it. Just interesting to hear you say that you exchange numbers with people. I asked for your number at the end of pizza movie

and you said no. That's bullshit. I've had your number for months. I've had your number for like a year. That sucks. I said, gain, there's so much from working with you. I'd love to stay in touch and you said, sorry, man. You said, call my publicist.

We'll flag it with the team. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I flag it with the team. I tried to walk up to you. I try to walk up to you. And your security guard went, excuse me? No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding, guys.

I'm playing. I'm playing guys. Oh, that'd be so, oh, that'd be good. Gaten, I have a game for you. Please. We play it every episode on this show. I can't wait. Okay, it's a true false segment.

Amazing. Basically what's going to happen. here is I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can after each one if what I just said was true or false. Okay. And Gaten, if you get 10 or more correct, don't get too excited. We're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars.

I know, I know. This is good. Stranger Things is over, brother. It's time to get back to work. It's time to clock in. All right. Dr. Seuss wrote Charlotte's Web. False. False. It was E.B. White. The airplane was invented in 1903. False. True. Alaska has the most lakes of any U.S. state. False. True. Elton John's middle name is Hercules. False. True.

Goldfish don't sleep. True. False. False. Pinelands Regional High School's yearbook is called a cat tail. False. It's true. No, it's not. It's the cat eye.

Oh, chance. Wait. That's their website. Sorry. You wouldn't be the first to challenge chance. Passports for U.S. adults are valid for 12 years. False. It's 10.

False. It's 10. Wendy's is older than Taco Bell. True. False. Fuck. The mascot for. Kraft macchise is the Cheesosaurus rex. That's not true.

No, it's not. I eat Kraft Maca Cheese once a week. It's Cheesesesosaurus reg. Wait, show me cheesosaurus rex. We'll pull it up. The property brothers are not twins. The property brothers are twins. They are twins.

They're identical twins. So it's false. The New Jersey State drink is cranberry juice. That would make sense. So I'm going to say true. It's true. The drowsy chaperone won five Tony Awards. That's got it.

Oh, that's true. Yes? It did it not win any? did it, true. It's true. True. Don't look to me like that. A group of cheetahs is called a pride.

One more time. A group of cheetahs is called a pride. Their cats, so true. False. It's called a coalition. It's horrifying. That's so annoying. The original Motorola razor did not have a camera.

True. It's false. Anakin Skywalker's mother's name is Shmi. Shmi Skywalker. That's true. That is true. How do you do? Six.

Show me cheesesesosaurus rex. Pull up cheesesesesisorce. Now. There's no way. Put cheesesesesaurus rex right here in the episode. I'm begging. It's kind of shocking.

You haven't seen. When is the last time they've used cheesesesosaurus rex? I'm assuming, is it not on the box? Chance does this to people. He's a very nefarious actor. He's a bad agent.

I don't know why this is not. Chance, you think you want to pull the picture up? It's not connecting to my... But I guess we can just say it's false. And I'm going to remember what this guy looks like too. Oh, there he is. That guy hasn't been used since 1993. You've seen him.

Look at him. You love him. I don't think I've seen that guy. Look at him. A chance is it still in use? He is used in select promotional campaigns. That means he's retired. Primarily from 1997 to like 2013.

but he still appears on some boxes. That looks like 1982 to 87. I was going to say, if he was going to say like... He was a float in the Macy's Day parade. He's very famous. Jesus or his Rex. It's a famous dinosaur.

It's cool to be cheesy. Oh wait, click on that shirt. Do I need that shirt? Go down bottom right, right, right. Oh my God. We need to get that for you. That's a great idea.

You need that. I will look that up. Buy that for Gaten on my dime. Wait, wait, if I do get that though, but maybe can I... That's a hundred and five. I don't care how much it costs. No price is too big for my boy.

Can I get it so that it can be the thing you display on my behalf here? No, it's too big. We should put a Cheez-a-Sorce-a-Rex on the set. We're going to put Gaton's Chees-A-Sorcex on the set. Don't let me forget. Don't let me forget. Wait, what's that other one, the long-sleeved one? Get him that as well. Is that the-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-old.

Dude, I love that shirt. Buy every Chees-a-Sorse shirt you can find and send it to Gaten's house. immediately. It's like, it's like funny at first, but then you get like seven more Jesusaurus

wreck shirts for me. You start telling people like, Calebairn's kind of a weird guy. You block my number and keep sending me. I never talk to you. I see you in public.

I avoid you. I just keep sending the wreck shirts. Jesusaurus Rex shirts every day. Oh, shit. Oh my gosh. Look at that guy wearing it like a little model. We got to put some of these on screens so people know what we're talking about.

That Hollister pose. Why would he? ever be surfing on water and not cheese? I don't... That's a way to that opportunity, for sure. Gaten, thank you so much for being on. Thank you for having me. You were an incredible guest. Do you want to tell people... Well, watch pizza movie. We're both in it.

Watch pizza movie. Gaten's incredible in it. As are you. Fully his film and they allowed me to show up for a couple days. That's great. We're so happy you did. Is there anything else you want to tell the people? I appreciate your investment of your time and your energy.

Oh, yeah. Follow him on Instagram. For God's sake, you guys. I don't post. He's not posting his cute pictures on there for nothing. Give this guy a follow. Let's everybody. Let's bring Gaiton to the top. Thanks for doing it, dude.

Thanks, man.