So True with Caleb Hearon - Jensen McRae Got Good Grades

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Welcome back! Today’s guest is the talented Jensen McRae! Jensen and Caleb talk bullying, running for office, learning Spanish, music taste, and so much more! We are on TOUR! Come see So True LIVE in a city near you! Dates/Tickets can be found here: https://www.livenation.com/artist/K8vZ917qN1f/so-true-with-caleb-hearon-events Join our Patreon for an exclusive extended interview with Jensen and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow Jensen! @jensenmcraeFollow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/sotrue10 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discountGo to https://www.Zocdoc.com/SOTRUE to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Book now at Booking.com ! Grab an Angry Orchard Cider today. Don’t Get Angry. Get Orchard. Please Drink Responsibly.About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. I'm doing stuff that's a little more niche. Like I just read like a Moggum book. That was like a book that I recently read. And I know that like sitting on like being on the plane with that. I didn't vote for him, but if you did, that's okay. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so, this is my favorite podcast maybe ever.

What are the, what am I in competition with? Um, there's some weird ones. I mean, there's, there's the classics. You've got Drew and Brittany are obviously up there. Of course. Love, love, love. I've heard a lot about them. The, I, only good things I presume.

Yeah, I don't know their stuff, but I've heard they're cool and they seem like nice enough people. I recommend you dive in. I think you're gonna, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's Drew, you said Drew and Brittany? Drew and Brittany, yes. They're both in their late 50s, kind of mostly gardening, home content. They look,

yeah okay. Not a day, they don't look a day over 40, but you'd be surprised. But they're up in their 50s. Yeah, yeah. Well they seem cool as hell, I'll have to check out their stuff. I hope you do after, if nothing else, if you take nothing else from today. That's awesome, let me look into that. But I also hope you do after, if nothing else, if you take nothing else from today. That's awesome. Let me look into that. But I also love weird podcasts. Like I really love, do you know John Green, the young adult author? No.

He wrote like The Fault in Our Stars, that book about the teens with cancer. What's his brother's name? Hank Green. I know that one. You know Hank? Yeah. I love that. But they, they're podcasts together.

They do like science and like soccer and like advice and. Science, soccer, and advice advice and science soccer and advice that classic formula well that was kind of the bit they were like what if they're like John is really into English football Hanks really into Mars and they're like what if we just did both of those I know Hank only because I like to get blazed and watch philosophy videos yeah yeah yeah I'll get I'll get snowed and be like human beings inherently good or evil Question mark and those are the guys to go for those kinds of questions He did some kind of series about all that stuff there

I've been obsessed with their videos since I was like 15 like I I'm very locked in on the vlog brothers Which is the name of their YouTube channel, okay? But they also have a podcast and that's kind of one of my plane But if I'm not listening to you on the plane for a podcast, I'm probably listening to John and Hank I liked the Fault in Our Stars It's a beautiful book and one of his best which caused I think John some distress of being like I wear up my best book And now what type of thing? Yeah, he's recovered. He's doing great work. He's fine. Do you think you've done your best song yet? Sometimes I worry like when I put out wolves, which was my second single off my first album

People a couple people said to me like this is the best song I've ever heard, which of course, destabilizing for a 22 year old. And also me being like, I hope not. I hope I do better and I didn't peak at 22. Wolves is a great song. Thank you. I do love it. It's a great song. Thank you. Well, you and I have beef. Okay. Which is part of why I brought you in here. So we can finally settle it. I want to settle the beef because you seem nice. I like you. We're friends. I do a good job of branding as nice. People think you're nice, and I do, but we have beef because you won't make Darling Killer into a single. You have this snippet from TikTok that I have sent you. I've gone so far as I've sent this to people you work with. I've sent this to your collaborators and said, why isn't she doing this one?

That's, it's a great question. At the end of the day, I post so many snippets. It's just, it's, they're all run together. You're on there. Maybe if they let you cut the ribbon. I knew you were going to sing today. I went and said, I know Caleb's going to sing. No one's free of me singing on this show.

Well, I was just talking about, I don't know if you coined this or you're just like a keen observer of this, like that all musicians wish they were comedians and all comedians wish they were musicians. You brought this up and it's very true. And I feel like we should just Freaky Friday kind of switch. We have a special little love story going on, comedians and musicians. Yeah. And I, well, I pointed this out to someone yesterday and they were like, I feel like

there's a similar symbiosis with rappers and basketball players. Absolutely there is. And I loved that observation. And I'm like, that's so crazy that like we, with among entertainers, there's like, everyone's got like a secret second life that they want. I think it's rappers and basketball players. I think it's actors and football players. Oh, really?

Yeah. Who are the famous ones of that? Oh my God, Bradley Cooper. Okay. Yeah. I'm sure that every city has them like, like Paul Rudd, like the... Everyone's got like some actors that are obsessed with their football team and I'm in a way that I'm like, you'd like to be out there.

You want to get on the... You want to get the pads on and get out there. You'd like to be out there. I never even... That's another... I had never thought about that. Yeah. Because I will say also, not to blow smoke for musicians, but I find a lot of actors,

even ones that aren't comedic actors, also wish they were musicians. Everyone in the world wishes they were musicians. Which is so... As a musician? That's crazy. That's hilarious. Cause it's not like- it's a great job, I love it. Full disclosure. But also like, it's not for everyone. For sure it's not, that's why I'm not doing it. I mean, you- but you could at any moment drop of a hat. You drop an EP.

You know what. And Line of Best Fit is li- they're getting the review out. You know what. The Clash is getting in there, ID's getting in there. Golly, golly. Paper Magazine. I know all the indie publications. Don't worry.

Don't worry, indie publications. Jensen loves you as long as you love her. And the love is there. I love those guys. I love that. You have a new record coming out. I do. Yeah, and you're excited about it, I'm sure.

I'm over the moon. I kind of can't believe that it's actually finally happening and Brad cook produced it Produced can we talk about Brad cook? I'm obsessed with Brad cook I could talk about him all the time when I went to my when I first are talking to my label about The new album they're like we're gonna send it to two producers for us them to Aaron Dessner Famously of the national and Brad cook yeah And I was like I would be so thrilled with either of these outcomes and Brad was kind of the one that raised his hand Was like I really like this. I want to make it

Yeah, and I got on the phone with him and immediately the vibes were great, but he lives in North Carolina He sure does and they were like yeah You're gonna go down to North Carolina for 10 days, and you're gonna record this and I was like golly gee I hope it works out. Yeah Gosh darn it. I really hope this works. Golly. I hope I'm not in North Carolina and not having a good time. I hope I'm not having a bad time and making bad songs. And the very first day that we got there, it was me and my managers and I brought my little brother to play keys because he's my keys player. And this from the very first moment, I was like, oh, this is a love connection. This is my guy.

Your little brother is one of the cutest people alive. He's precious. He's adorable. To the point that it's annoying, like I said recently at a family dinner, I was like, it's annoying that I'm the least attractive sibling. No, let's not be crazy. Here's the thing, I'm a cutie pie, but ultimately at the end of the day, like the amount of people that say to me like, oh my God, your brother's, your brother's, your brother's. And I'm like, why don't we dial it back a little bit? Your whole family is beautiful. It's a beautiful family. And we're all very tall so we wouldn't the five of us when we're walking five abreast

It's like wow that's like a giant. It's what we call that a full-court press When your family walks together that's a full-court press indeed. There's a pick and roll Okay sports. Yeah, come on sports. I know you know your sports So you go to North Carolina yeah make the album with Brad who I adjust a door well cuz he did the wax hatchet album He did yeah, he's done suki water houses stuff people who adore. Well, because he did the Wax Hatchy album. He did, yeah, he's done Suki Waterhouse's stuff for people who don't know. He did St. Cloud, he did Tiger's Blood with Wax Hatchy.

Works a lot with Boney Bear, another fave. I just love Brad. He's so cool and like another tall. He's like six four. Big guy. Huge, huge big guy and like immediately like comforting, inviting presence, loves a good scent. I'm very into like perfume and candles and stuff. And he has a candle locker in his studio

just like full shelf of like the most beautiful smelling candles you've ever seen in your life. Yeah. And just like an amazing environment like he's just so smart. He's so quick. He knew exactly where to take the record even when I didn't. And like it was I say it felt like summer camp like the 10 days that we were down there. Yeah. I love, I fell in love with Brad. I saw him, I forget the order of operations, but there was a time where we were both in New York and he had come to a show of mine and whatever, whatever, but not because of me. He came with a friend, but that's not when I fell in love with him. I fell in love with him because I watched him at a public records duo. They did like an album thing for Katie's album. And it was him and

Katie and Allison talking about the record. And the way that he talked about Katie, my friend, the way he talked about her and her brilliance and their making of the record together and the like absence of ego. And just like his process, I was just like, this is a really cool human being. I like him a lot. He's so sweet. And like, he just knows so much about music and has no ego and no agenda. And like, those are my favorite kind of people to work with. Like he's worked with everyone.

He's worked with the coolest people in the entire world. And he's equally as invested in making my record as he is making those like for Mavis Staples, who's like one of the biggest legends of all time. Cause he just, whatever he likes, he thinks is important. And like, he's not a person who's trying to prove anything. He's not a person who's trying to prove anything. He's not a person who's trying to chase clout. He just is down for the cause of great music. And it makes me feel, it gives me a lot of validation

of this is a person who his stamp means something. Do you wanna know one of my top five live music moments? I would love to know this. I don't know if I've said it on the show or not. I might have, but it happened in November. I went to see Nathaniel Ratliff in the Night Sweats. Oh, lovely.

Who I love at the United Center in Chicago. And a couple tracks in, it was great. I was there with Kevin and Liam and we were having a great time and a bunch of other friends had showed up. And then a couple songs in, he brought out Mavis Staples. And they did friendship. Oh my goodness. And I, he, I, first of all I immediately, he goes, ladies and gentlemen, Mavis, I'm sobbing. And suddenly I am sobbing. He goes, ladies and gentlemen, Mavis, I'm sobbing, I'm weeping and then he brings her up and she walks up there and she's so fucking just legendary. And it's Chicago and it's Mav walks up there and she's so fucking just legendary.

And it's Chicago and it's Mavis in Chicago. And it's United Center in Chicago has so much meaning to me. She's a Chicago legend. And I just was like, whoa, I can't believe this is happening. And then they do friendship. And I'm with my buddies and we're just, I walk over at one point and just everyone I can see is crying. It was so beautiful. And I love Nathaniel. He's a Missouri guy.

And I just was like, wow, this Missouri guy, and I just was like, wow, this is it. In the moment, I was like, you're experiencing something that you will never forget. Have you always had like your finger on the pulse of the cool music? Like, have you always had good music taste? I've always had my music taste, which I like a lot. Yes, but it just seems like you like, you're like always discovering like the new talent. Like I feel like if I, like when you're posting something, I'm like, oh, that's the thing

that like musicians have already caught on to. and you're like bringing it out into into the mainstream And it's like have you always been like an A&R in that way? Parentheses positive not drug No, I do I just love music so much and I listen I just listen to musicians like when like there I there's so much stuff that I discover through like if you told me someone you liked I would go home and do a deep dive because I'm like Jensen knows music or like if Kevin and Katie like someone who has a tiny following I'm like, they're fucking good. Like I just anytime a musician friend tells me someone that they love I Especially in private if we're if it's they love, I, especially in private,

if we're, if it's, you know what I'm saying? If it's not in public, I'm like, in public sometimes it can be like, oh, they're on the label or whatever, whatever. You still trust, but you're like, we'll see. But in private, if they're like, I've really been listening to Hooray for the Riff Raff, you know what I mean? That I'm like, I'm fucking locking in, you know, or whatever the thing is. Well, we have a mutual favorite band in Muna.

God, I like the music the people I like the music You're separating the art from the I don't like the lesbian Behind the sound well, then you would have been appalled at Brandi Carlisle's music festival that we were at good last month night What was that like? I mean it was truly the attendance and Lineup was I would say 90% lesbians. Oh, sorry. I wasn't being clear. I love lesbians I don't like the lesbians of moonup got it got it got it got it got it It was um it was like it was like magic it was me and my managers were remarking like it was the safest

we've ever felt in a music festival ever because pretty it was almost all women in attendance and On the lineup and everyone was just like everyone was deeply deeply sensitive deeply deeply engaged with the craft of feeling and I got to sing Silkshwan with Muna again which I hadn't done in a couple of years it was so powerful so beautiful but I did reunite with them much to your chagrin apparently and I'll pass along that you're not happy with the way things are kind of shaking out with them. I like the music. I like the music. No, they're obviously, they're the best. They're wonderful. I desecrated Silk Chiffon one time with my presence. And I keep, something keeps happening with my musician friends.

I think via some form of, do you remember in high school when people would bully one of the weird kids by including them and stuff? Me? That happened to me. You mean when I was in ninth grade and on the back of the bus on a choir trip, everyone tried to make me freestyle rap? You know the scene in Sorry to Bother You where they make him rap and they don't like it till they start saying the N-word? That happened to me in real life when I was 14. Jesus Christ, by the way. Yeah, in high school when they'd be like, we should invite Dylan to play kickball. And he has no idea.

Yeah, and he's like, I'd love to play kickball. Yeah, it's like. It's truly walls closing in, Carrie Pig's blood kind of a moment. Yeah. And that's what keeps happening to me with musician friends, asking me to sing with them. No, but you have a voice.

You can sing. It's not even relevant. It's that I feel it's so disrespectful for me to hop on a track. Like, truly, Katie, when Katie Gavin did her most recent solo show for the record in New York, she was like, you should hop up and do a song with me. And I was like, Katie, do you think anyone in that audience wants to see your court jester

friend get up and ruin Inconsolable? They absolutely do, though, is the thing. I would be... Here's what I'll tell you. I just... To bring up a comedian at a beautiful event, I just think, wow. So you don't want to sing Massachusetts with me in New York? Want is not the concern. All I want is to be up there with you but I have to be in

the audience where I belong I'll be crying with the other gay non-binary people and I do have I do have those at my shows yes I get a lot of I get a lot of lesbian allegations I find you yes which I don't I don't mind it's just like I'm so many of my songs are about he-hims, so it's just like, it does surprise me. But I think, ultimately it's that I get put on playlists with other lesbian artists, and people are like, oh surely this music that I like must be gay music, because I like it and all good music is gay music. And I think that's kind of where the overlap comes in. Based on, I've listened to I think think, every song you've ever put out.

And based on the analysis of the lyrics, I could only assume that most of these crimes were perpetrated by He-Him. That's really the only conclusion I would expect anyone to come to. But the thing I've heard is like, oh, the yearning in the music, that's kind of got a gay energy, a lesbian energy, is the yearning.

Yearning is queer, yes. Yes. But ultimately, yeah, I am writing about a lot of he-hims, unfortunately. Yeah, I hate to see that. Well, we share this plight of, like, unfortunately being afflicted by the he-him spirtacy. It's horrible.

But it does, it's good for the plot. We get good stories, we get good songs, ultimately good jokes. It is good for the plot, yeah. If I were into women, oh, I struggle to think of how easy life would be Well, you'd make a killing. It'd be so simple. Oh my thumb wife You wouldn't be a wife guy no

Okay, I think I'd be what I think I'd be one of those comics like kind of with a smirk That's like she always wants to go shopping Well women and and this is like a hot, women do love shopping. Women love shopping. Women be shopping. Women be shopping and men love sports. I don't know why, let's stop fighting it. There's two genders.

Let's start there. No, I'm just kidding. Guys, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm not trying to like reignite your beef with any of the, any communities. Oh, I have no beef with any communities. Famously on the right side of history all the time. I have no beef with any communities. Famously on on the right side of history all the time. I have no beef with any communities I've sworn all that off. Oh yeah it's new year new leaf.

Yeah. 2025 no beef. Any communities I've only I'm pro all of it I love it all unless you count Pauly people as a community. I was I this morning before coming here was listening to your new episode with well the time new episode with Taylor Ortega And talking about talking about the poly community. Yeah, I just I appreciated you guys weighing in. Yeah. Well, I Mean good night with those folks. I Can't even begin I can't even begin who has the time or energy we were running we've got we've got a tight ship We've got a busy schedule. Yeah, we got got a busy schedule I can't have boyfriends pearl I find I struggle to think of singular boyfriend it's it's for me hard to imagine

singular boyfriend as well you seen somebody right now no I'm like in a it's it's fun for me to be like there's actually no one like I don't have to be coy and be like well but there's like literally no one on Saturday nice what's their deal I don't I don't really know I'm like choosing to know nothing, but they're I mean they're from right he's from Raya Oh god, cuz that's the only app I use god. I hate Raya. It's not it doesn't really work. No, it's bad It doesn't really work at all It's kind of funny just like seeing like a lot of creative directors like a lot of guys Who like do like rate like drive race cars?

I feel like I see a lot of that Yeah who like do like race like drive race cars I feel like I see a lot of that yeah a lot of guys who I accidentally match within Milan who are like when are you coming to Italy and I'm like I don't know how this even happens I don't know how I got a hold of you yeah I don't know we shouldn't be in contact I don't know this 40 year old man in Milan that's me with Amsterdam I'm getting guys from Amsterdam that are going when will you be in the Netherlands and I go brother not for a while how How did you find me? And it's partially my fault.

I shouldn't have been paying closer attention to that location. But then before I know it, I'm just chit chatting with them. I'm not going to say a fake Italian name. I don't have a good one. I'm Giuseppe. I'm chatting with a Giuseppe. I'm chatting with Giuseppe.

And he is beautiful, gorgeous man, but too old for me and lives in Milan. Well, they're always beautiful. They're always beautiful when they live in Milan. Do you spend a lot of time in Italy? No, and you know, I'd like to go abroad more, but you know, the issue is I don't think my guy is abroad. You don't think?

I think my husband is American, and I find that unfortunate. Really? Like salt of the earth, like Midwestern. I really think. You think he's in Kansas City. My husband is, not lives there currently. I'll tell you that I'll tell you my husband does not live in Kansas City right now. You're gonna bring him there though. Oh my god Yeah, I'm gonna have to like I'm gonna have to like drag someone back to the Midwest with me Okay, the dates I've gone on in Kansas City can only be described and I'm sorry fellas. I know some of you are listening

Can only be described as a a torture or self-harm ritual. The dates I've been on in Kansas City, it's either a key, it's like we're girlfriends, or this is the most disturbed, partially closeted individual I've ever encountered. It's bad news bears. I think dating ultimately, anyone who says dating is easy is lying. I think dating is fun. I think it is fun. I think dating is fun. Dating is not easy It is not easy and I think if I think you're even if you're having bad dates, it is still fun Like when I'm having bad dates, I'm still mostly having a good time. You know what my dating life is going pretty well recently Okay. Well, that's not brag. I know

I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. I mean you'll get hobbies. I'm getting I'm pretty into the Sims right now I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Yeah my Sim just died of embarrassment. What happened? I honestly don't know. I she was just like standing outside she was embarrassed maybe she peed herself something happened. Standing outside is humiliating. Don't you find for real? Do you ever when I show up early to somewhere and I'm standing outside waiting for my friend I'm like this is one of the worst things ever happened to me. Can I be so honest this is like I bring a book and I'll just like stand reading a book like on a street corner to look mysterious. I'm standing outside waiting for my friend. I'm like this is one of the worst things ever happened Can I be so honest this is like I bring a book and I'll just like stand reading a book like on a street corner I'm standing reading a book to look mysterious. You're so that girl and it's like I think I'm pulling it off

Yeah, but it's also like when I really think about it. I'm like girl. What are you doing? Yeah, you don't look that mysterious You're reading a book. I mean unfortunately, I mean the books I read I think if you like caught a glimpse of the title You'd be like, oh like she's really serious about it. Yeah, it's not like I'm it's not like a Sony my first, you know Fisher price my first book type of thing Yeah, but it is cuz you know, like there's certain books that like I see a guy in the subway reading all about love Exactly, and I go this your first time with a book You're first like it's and I don't ever want to be that person I'm doing so it's a little more niche Like I just read like a magun book that was like a book that I recently read and I know that like sitting on like be on the plane with that

I didn't vote for him, but if you do But like come on it's a good one we have fun here come on in that fun. I had gum What was the thing you said though? I just when I'm reading stuff. I Ultimately like I'm picking titles that are not giving like It's not posturing, you know Yeah But it's still like ultimately if you're standing outside of a coffee shop waiting for your friend and you are reading a book

You're fully standing up and readings crazy Like have you seen the pictures of Jacob Lordy where he's reading a book in a hand and then he has also as a paperback In the back pocket. I mean, I've seen every picture There's not a picture of Jacob already that hasn't crossed my desk I've seen every picture of Jacob Elordi. There's not a picture of Jacob Elordi that hasn't crossed my desk. You're signing off on him. Yeah, before, I'm that guy in the Spider-Man movie.

I need more pictures of Spider-Man. I'm signing off on Jacob Elordi pictures. All they do, they put him in front of me, I go, yep, run it, run it, run it. He's got a purse, why not? He's six foot 10, I don't see why not. He's the biggest, most beautiful boy. I need him.

I, so I made a TikTok like a year ago and it went like a little bit viral and it was me talking about how I, he's my prime example of someone who I think of as a beautiful house. Yeah. Like I see him and I understand that he's gorgeous but like to me he's like architecture.

He's so beautiful that it's like I can no longer register him as like someone I might have a romance with. Opposite for me. Well. I have a hard time picturing him as somebody I don't have romance with. I mean, and all the comments were like, well, you have low self-esteem if you don't think. That's just a reflection on you being insecure

because you don't think you could pull Jacob Elordi. I'm like, I was like, I want it on the record. Jacob Elordi's not in my DMs. This is not a situation I have to confront. Yeah. This is not something I'm ever gonna have to deal with. I have the opposite of low self-esteem. I'm out of my mind.

I see someone like Jacob Elordi and I go, he might hit me up. Well, there's like, it's not that he wouldn't hit you up. It's that like, he just like presently, I'm pretty sure is dating the young aunt Becky, right? Like Lori Loughlin's daughter, I think. Pardon? Pardon? You know, aunt Becky from Full House?

The one that didn't, didn't they go to jail for? I don't think there was jail time. By the way I was at USC when that happened with USC gate. Yeah, I was a senior I was finishing up my senior year on spring break when the Did you get in normal style or did you get in normal style? I got a normal style how many people got in fake style cuz that was the whole thing, right? I don't know but like I went so I grew up in LA

I went to a very intense private high school and I went to one of the schools were like it's not just rich kids like everyone there's really smart. Okay, but I tracks by the way because you are so smart Thank you. I see you at a I see you at a smart high school in there fucking it up I see that I was but I was like the loose like type B Like I mean I was type a in the sense of like I was raising my hand all the time in class and people were laughing About it kind of an energy, but I was also in all the talent shows and everyone's like What's your backup plan when music fails? Yeah, I was like don't worry about it, babe. Yeah, not gonna fail. I'm gonna rock it to the moon But I went to like it was a very very smart school the kids did well in school kids got into college because they were Smart, but there are other LA private schools

And I won't name names were some of the kids like the you know that like oh yeah These kids are getting into college because their parents are probably paying their way Yeah And I just thought it was understood that that was happening like with when the when the big college gate was a varsity Like, you know that, like, oh yeah, these kids are getting into college because their parents are probably paying their way. And I just thought it was understood that that was happening. Like, when the big college gate was it Varsity Blues they called it? When that happened, I was like, is this news? Didn't we know that this was happening?

I guess it was the photoshopping of the pictures that everyone was like, that's kind of crazy. It was like, oh yeah, they did or they didn't play water polo in high school. It's like, I don't give a fuck. I was surprised they were going to those lengths, like that there was any sort of like fabrications or fraud going on. But I just thought it was known. It's like, oh, if you're rich and you're not that smart, your parents might just throw some money at it and then you go to the school and then, but then you, who cares? Kind of. I mean, it's bad. I know it's bad because it's maybe taking away the spot from a kid who deserves

it. I understand that. But I just knew that it was the way that it had always worked. And it was the people being shocked about it that surprised me. Cause like, I thought we all knew that this was going on across the board Yeah, but you went to USC normal style. I did go normal style. Yeah, and you studied music there I studied music there and I loved it. I didn't go to a single football game I didn't participate in like any of the normal USC traditions, but I tell you something please I knew that You're saying that the energy that I'm giving today is not like girl at the tailgate? Hey, I didn't see you at the game.

No, I didn't see you at the game. You went to college football games, surely. Yeah, but doesn't that feel a little, doesn't it track a little bit? I mean, I know you love football, so like you going to a college football game makes sense. You can see me, by the way, I didn't care much about our college football. I didn't like going to the tailgates because the food sucked and our college football team sucked and the guys who went sucked.

Were you doing like face paint and stuff? No, fuck no. Fuck no. You can barely get me to go to a Chiefs game because it's such a to-do. It is a to-do. What I like to do is go to a sports bar with great chicken wings and post the fuck up. That's beautiful. And I just say, server, keep the Dr. Pepper on a run.

On a constant loop. Is that the best? Because you've got a Coca-Cola today. Yes. Is Dr. Pepper the bev of choice for a sporting event though? Dr. Pepper that the best? Because you've got a Coca-Cola today. Is Dr. Pepper the bev of choice for a sporting event, though? Dr. Pepper's the bev of choice for everything. OK. Dr. Pepper, given I don't do it that often,

because I'm like 30 now and responsible. Not if you have to drive. The last couple of years, I've been fading out the Dr. Peppers. But man, if I had my choice, if it was just like, if it was a free for all, I'd have Dr. Pepper all the time. Wake up, middle of the day, evening. That makes sense.

But yeah, I went to the, I was at Love USC. I did the, but it was very much like I was in the music school bubble. And like I didn't really, I knew a lot of kids in the film school. I knew our mutual friend, Jeffrey James, a fellow head gummer. We met at improv auditions freshman year of college.

Of course. Of course, by the way. Jeffrey James, a gorgeous funny man who is doing something. He's up to something. He's up to no good. I never see him anymore. I'm like, I just trust that he's alive and doing something. Well, we lost touch for many years and then a mutual friend reconnected us last year and now he's up to his same old tricks. Is he? He's really up to his same old tricks, just goof arounds. I went to get breakfast in LA this morning. I stopped to get breakfast before I came here and the little girl they had

working the counter there. The young lady? The young woman at the counter there. The broad. She goes, I know you. And I go, all right. You know, I'm like, do you want a picture? No, she goes, she goes, I met you, you're friends with Jeffrey James. Oh, I go, I go, well, we know each other. No, I'm kidding. She goes, your friends with Jeffrey James, I met you guys the day that you bought matching hats. And I go, I go, oh yeah, we did do that. Was it like the kind of hats that like this, like the propeller hats? What kind of a matching hat are we talking about? That was a slur just so you know Just so you know that was a crazy slur for comedians Yeah, no for some reason Jeffrey James, and I went to a farmers market. I like I just haven't seen Jeff in forever of course

No, I can down hard to pin down, but we went to a farmers market and bought straw hats together It was straw hats okay pretty much adorable Yeah, and I think I had that was three years ago, and I don't think I've seen him since Where is that if you're out there Jeff give me a call This episode of so true is brought to you by booking.com booking. Yeah Every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the US I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals, and I know I can find exactly what I'm looking for.

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tickets with promo code SOTRU10. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your bank account so you can use it later. Thank you SeatGeek. Yeah, we met at Improv Editions and he is a beautiful young man to the point that I and have the code automatically added to your bank account so you can use it later. Thank you, Seekik. Yeah, we met at Improv Editions, and he is a beautiful young man to the point that like at the try-out, I saw him at the try-out, and I was like, this guy's not gonna be funny, too good-looking, suspicious. I know, he's gorgeous. And then he was really funny, and I was like, not fair, not cool. See, I've not seen him be funny. I just noticed that he's...

Never heard a joke. Never seen him try to do a joke even. Really solid, serious guy. He's a stern guy, yeah. Yeah, very stern, kind of intense intense kind of crazy eyes kind of got going Yeah, it's a shame could be could have a really bright future in comedy if he devoted himself to it Did you make it on the improv team? No. Whoa. I didn't I'm so I was telling this I'm gonna keep I don't know

I'm like locked into telling the stories about my improv days But I am I got to the callbacks like I was gonna be on the short form team And they did a thing where for six weeks twice a week You would meet up basically in like it was at the physical education building and from like I think was 10 to midnight twice A week you were like in improv like probationary improv boot camp and then The shit we used to do to prove to each other that we were serious about it And it was crazy because like in the music school at USC, like you had, so you had performance class on Tuesday nights and then you also had rehearsals

twice a week, like with your band. Cause like the first two years you're in, basically in cover bands all the time. And so I would have like on Monday night, then I perform a performance class. I would have my normal rehearsal from six to eight or whatever. And then I got to eat dinner and then I would go do improv for two hours. And then I would go back to my like freshman dorm with no air conditioning and then wake up at like 6 a.m. To go to like classical theory Like that's what I was doing in 2015 I was like yeah

I was doing improv till the wee hours and then waking up to like do like analyze fugues in classical music your college experience Was much cooler than mine that that you heard improv and classical theory and you thought cool? You're like, you're like, you're like, I'm in rehearsal. I'm in a cover band. I'm going to do improv. I'm analyzing musical theory. I'm like, truly, I don't even know what we did. I remember that one time we got kicked out of a Red Lobster because we did too much on

the endless shrimp. I mean, we were, we were causing, I was causing a ruckus invariably as well, but like, I mean, the classical theory was brutal. I was getting like, those were the first time I ever got like ruckus invariably as well. But like, I mean, the classical theory was brutal. I was getting like, those were the first time I ever got like Fs in my life. But like you could go to the teacher's office hours and redo the homework and then she would just give you a new grade based on how much she helped you.

So like if I hadn't done that, I would have gotten an actual F. Like, and I'm a person who like, I was very fastidious about my grades my whole life. And like, I would get like homework back and be like, you got 30% of this right. And I'm like, I don't know, I don't even know how to process how wrong I was

Yeah, I can't believe it. I'm not used to this I wasn't used to it at all and like oh Fortunately like didn't matter like the classical it fell off after that But that first year waking up that early for that and I had a rival there was this girl who sat next to me who? Was a classical major always sick. It got me sick repeatedly. I hated her so much. That's so funny Do you know what she does is she a big-time musician now? I have no idea cuz I don't really I don't keep up with that many people from college Honestly, like I have my friends but everyone else I like kind of like I I don't have Facebook anymore

Like I haven't had Facebook for like five years and so I kind of don't know like about like like the external circles I don't really know what they're up to I'm randomly kind of up on what's up with the USC music kids Are you I randomly know a lot of y'all I guess so it's okay. It's just the LA of it all I've run into a lot of USC music groups. We do mostly stay in LA. It's pretty interesting. I learned that USC had something called music, music. I learned that you guys had a music major at USC

when I moved here. I was like, I didn't really know you could study that at college. Well, the popular music program, which is what I was in, which I don't think all of the moon is did it I think Naomi studied something else, but Katie and Josette were in the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah all those guys and it was it started in 2009 So I was only like the sixth graduating class or something

Yeah, but yeah, it's a pretty new thing and they've like modeled other programs like around the country based on it I think but I was. But I was obsessed. I was a devotee, real teacher's pet. I go back and speak there all the time. Nice. Which I fantasize about, of course, being a precocious 18-year-old. I was like, I can't wait till I am on that stage

giving a speech. I'm gonna come back and really teach the class. I'm gonna have an impact. I really wanted to so badly. There's nothing I wanted more. And I still wanna be a professor. I wanna get a master's degree and be a professor. Yeah, I see that for you.

I mean, I've got my profess professorial shoes my very professorial collar You can am I cool music professor? Thank you. I'd be like let's go. I'm going would you teach comedy? Oh, I do every day Every day is a master class take out your pencil and take notes Session everyone listening there will be a test Would I teach comedy? I love teaching. I love teaching in general. I'd rather teach something that matters. I'd rather teach like, com theory or anything else. You don't think having a laugh in this day and age

that having a laugh is medicine? I think if you need to be taught how to make people laugh, you should go do something else, is what I think. But is there such a difference between, like, I'm, not to brag, I'm being funny now, but like, I couldn't get up on stage and do stand-up. I bet you could I've I'm I tried I have one joke. I won't stand up joke. I'll give it to you. I had this one joke that I So I run sometimes not that consistent of a runner

But I had this idea of like doing a bit where like I'm running in the park and like it would be horrible to discover A dead body, but like if on the news they referred to me as a jogger I'd be like, oh my god, like people know me as a jogger That's a good premise a lot. That's my only and I know that's all I got. That's a good premise I think if I don't think I could get five minutes from there But you don't necessarily need five minutes out of it. You'd see what comes with it I think I'm somebody who there's a lot of synapses who are like no more stand-ups. We don't need people to stand up I'm the opposite. I'm like everyone can do stand-up. You really think go nuts

Not everyone's gonna be good at it, right? But I think with enough work you could ever I think people imagine stand up. I'm the opposite. I'm like, everyone can do stand up. You really think. Go nuts. Not everyone's going to be good at it. Right. But I think with enough work, you could ever, I think people imagine stand up and they go, Oh my God, I just die if I even had to do it. I'm like, no, you would do really badly. Right. And then you would get over that. And then you would have done something really good for your soul, which is learned how to fail in front of people and not feel like your life was over. Yeah, that's true. Cause with music, like it's very rare that you're getting on stage. Like obviously you practice for stand up, but when the first time you get up to do stand

up, you don't know how it's going to be received. With music, it's very easy. Like you get up there, people are going to clap politely. Like there's no way to people. I mean, I guess you can get a polite laugh, but you can't like, it's, it's, it's a much more involuntary reaction. And if your stand up is bad, people are not going to really let you get away with it, especially not in a way. Not in a way, not in Holly weird. Yeah, especially not in LA not in Los not in Holly weird Yeah, try again, honey What what's the next? What's the album like tell me about the album? I mean, it's similar somewhat similar sonically to the first one. Like it's very a lot of organic instruments

It's all like a singer-songwriter vibes But like thematically just like I grew up a lot like my first album is very I say it's like my coming of age kind of and it's like about me growing into myself and album is very I say it's like my coming of age kind of and it's like about me growing into myself and discovering my identity like in college and then this album is much more about relationships because I had my first two relationships like back-to-back in my mid-20s and they were both like incredibly transformative and insane and I had I just had no choice but to document them which is like kind of crazy to be like it's about my breakup but because like

every album is but it's like for me me it's in a different and interesting way. I wrote a breakup album in a way that other people failed to. I'm kind of touching on some stuff that everyone else is afraid to say. I mean, ultimately, I've been thinking about what are funny ways that I can pitch this album and I think one of the biggest things is that it's ultimately about how you should only date men from New England at your own peril. Yeah, I've heard that. I mean, I wrote Massachusetts for a reason.

I've heard this, especially straight men from New England. I saw a tweet once, it was like, God puts his most evil white boys in places like Massachusetts and New Hampshire. And I was like, that's crazy. That's really true. I've never met anyone from New Hampshire. I'm sure they're lovely people. I wouldn't be so sure.

I'm not going to make any generalizations. I'm not going to speak out of class. Don't speak out of turn, please. I'm not gonna make any generalizations. I'm not gonna speak out of class. Yeah, don't speak out of turn, please. I'm begging. Yeah, it's about me processing those relationships and ultimately realizing, not what doesn't kill me made me stronger, per se, but what didn't kill me, like, ha, couldn't get me this time.

What didn't kill me this time might next. Maybe, yeah, and if I have to go through this again, who knows? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, who's to say? Like, really not up to me, but um, but yeah I really it was very cathartic to write obviously and like I'm really proud of these songs Like one of the first things Brad said to me like the first time we spoke was he had listened to the first album And then he was listening to the demos and he was like I can just tell how much you've grown as a writer and to

Me that's like the biggest compliment is not that I've made the best song ever but that like you can track the growth as I'm progressing through my musical journey. I don't like people blowing smoke. I don't want people telling me that I'm the greatest. I want people to tell me, oh, you're growing a lot, you're improving a lot. And I can tell every year that you're further along than you were the year before.

I don't know if I've ever grown from something that I struggled through. No resilience? I get through it, but I don't think I've ever left a struggle and been like, ooh, that one, good, good, good, good, good, you know? Every struggle I have, I go, that should never have happened to me. And ultimately, that's how I feel.

I do think it would be fun, I do think it would be fun to do like a big diva turn. You should. To be, to like really get nasty with it. Would you do like, like physical manifestation of diva, like fur coat kind of a thing? Fur coat that I like drop on a chance when I walk in and throw the glass across the room, I go Virginia, my latte, you know, stuff like that. I think you switch to transition lenses. Of course. Would that be fun? Yeah, huge. Okay, on a scale of, on a scale of Saint to to nightmare, how much of a diva are you?

Oh, that's really hard to say. I don't know if I'm allowed to say. It's sort of a genius, you know what I mean? Are you allowed to make that? Because I have a bunch of health problems, lol, and I have a very restrictive diet. So my writer, when I tour, is like, I need fresh produce. So in a way, that makes me a little bit of a diva I'm like these blueberries have a little mold on them unacceptable. Yeah type of thing

I think moldy blueberries is probably something you're allowed to veto But it's like or if it's like if someone brings me something and there's not a refrigerator like a mini fridge in my Green room and like the stuff's been sitting out. I'm like, I don't want it now It's not if it's at room temp. I'm not interested. Yeah, so it's like in that way I guess I'm a little bit of a diva but like ultimately, I don't want, I hate inconveniencing people. What's on your writer? So it's like blueberries and arugula and cucumbers. Let's go.

And I like to have, I like tea, I like to have some mint tea. And ultimately now, because I travel with a band, I let them have input. I think my little brother put pretzels on there, so there was always pretzels in there. But I think we're all kind of afraid to ask for too much stuff. Like we know we can. Yeah. But it's like the idea of like saying to like these people at these these hardworking people at these venues like hey can you like go to whatever the equivalent

of Whole Foods is in this town and like find me my snacks. Like I'm like you have better things to do than this. Surely. That's interesting. What's on your writer? My writer's an amalgamation of all stuff we like. It's like Chance always wants a bottle of whiskey. Okay. Love. I, rotisserie chicken, which I learned from Stavi, that's a great call on this part. Oh that's good. This is something you can just eat real quick before, and it's not going to upset your stomach. Like chomps, beef jerkeys, Fiji waters, cold Fiji waters, Dr. Pepper, Diet Coke, what else is on there? Hint of lime chips. Oh, that's powerful.

And salsa. What? Light beer. Oh, good. One of my college roommates always had a family-sized bag of hint of lime Tostitos in her desk drawer. Dude, hint of lime is the fucking truth. They're great.

I messaged the people at Tostitos, and I said, what you're doing with hint of lime is incredible, you should do it on the scoops. Don't they have hint of lime lime scoops. No not to my knowledge. Oh, I guess I never thought about do they oh here's my writer Here's my writer okay Two rotisserie chickens cherry cook zero dr. Pepper Jack Daniels bourbon whiskey Budweiser Coors Light boom chicka pop kettle corn Evian water pre-roll joints where? Original Pringles I didn't do that. Fresh fruit platter, emphasis on pineapples,

pineapples, strawberries, blackberries. Regular jalapeno chomps, beef sticks, Dove milk and dark chocolate, sugar-free Red Bull, sparkling water, additional requests to potentially follow depending on guests and location. Beautiful. Yeah, and I will be adding to that. Actually Chance, will you put hint of lime,

Tostitos, and jar of salsa? Chunky medium salsa. No particular brand. Well, I don't, see, that's how I try to help is I try not to go too specific on that kind of thing. Cause of course I want to say it needs to be Amy's. Needs to be Amy's organic chunky medium salsa. But like who's to say that's gonna be?

Medium not mild, Chance. Sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. This podcast is sponsored by But like who's medium not mild chance. This podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing, angry orchard. Listen guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest.

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to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z-o-c-d-o-c.com slash so true, zocdoc.com slash so true. But yeah, I don't wanna say if they don't have amies, you don't need to go to a second store. I'm like a regular guy. You're just a down to earth salt of the earth Midwestern. I'm a regular guy from Missouri who likes his hint of lime chips. And that's beautiful. And that's where it does. Do you like the lime lays? Or is that not? Is that a no go?

I don't believe that I've had them friend. Wow. I mean, I feel like that's something that could open if you're talking about hint of lime Although they're called see here's the thing. They're called limon. Yeah pretty confident that that means lemon in Spanish It means I'm I thought Lima mint lime nice. I was just saying something I'm in Spanish lesson. I'm taking Spanish lessons. I'm in Spanish lessons. Shut up. Yeah. Oh my God. I met a guy at a party in Mexico City, Ernesto, and he goes, would you want to take Spanish classes with me on Zoom? And I go, yeah, how about every week?

I'm doing Spanish class every week, but I went on like a website and like found, I like found a tutor from Peru. Her name's Luciana. Shout out Luciana. I don't know if she's watching this. Do you like her? I love, I picked her because her photo looked like, I was like, oh, I look, it looks like we'd be friends. I filtered like tutors. I mean, you can't actually filter for it, but when I was looking, I was like, I want a young lady who looks like we have a key.

That's what I want. And now I'm worried she's younger than me, because when I first hired her, I assumed we were the same age, and then in our last lesson, we were talking about podcasts, and she talked about listening to a podcast when she was 12, and I was like, wait, what do you mean?

Like a podcast that was out when I was in college. And I was like, wait a minute, Are you like 23 years old? That's disgusting So I don't know I don't that stresses me out if she's much younger than me cuz I really thought we were the same age That is stressful. I but I know I ultimately don't know and I'm afraid I feel like it's rude to ask We should practice Spanish together sometime. We absolutely should I'm really bad. I'm honestly pretty good I believe that and I also I just don't I don't I'm I'm working on it And Ernesto is being very patient with me. How'd you did you have any knowledge of Spanish before Ernesto?

Yeah, a little just a tiny bit but I because here's the issue I really Hate that the American education system where at least where I grew up treats the foreign language like it's a requirement but it's like a joke yeah I thought like oh pick a Spanish name and we'll have chips and salsa one day what was your Spanish name Gustavo Gustavo cuz I thought it was cute mine was Juanita when I was young and then when I got to middle school I didn't like that name so I changed it to Julia which ultimately like I then I started talking to people who are like actually like fluent in Spanish and they're like

we'll just call you your actual name you don't need a Spanish name. They're like hey yeah. That's the thing that your teacher made up that's well my seventh grade Spanish teacher was German. That's the thing is they don't take it seriously. That's an unserious thing to do. That's an unserious thing to do or like God love her but Miss Polly was not locked in you know like I'm sorry I don't even know how much she traveled in Mexico like I just feel I feel sorry, I don't even know how much she traveled in Mexico. Like, I just feel, I feel that, yeah, it was a big joke and I hate that because when my mind was more elastic, I could have learned this.

And I think it's humiliating to only know one language. It is. Well, here's what's interesting about it is true, obviously, that when you're young, there's like, it is easier to learn a language. However, when you think about it, like, you look at a seven year old and go, yeah, the seven year old is bilingual. They're not that good at either language. You know what I mean eat them up. Yeah Like if I think about myself like cuz I got really good at Spanish in high school cuz I took AP Spanish lit I got as far as I was like reading Don Quixote and writing essays about it

I was pretty good when I was 16 and then I just stopped speaking it for like a decade and now I'm picking it Back up but like me speaking it now. I would say that I probably about as good as being Spanish like a five or a six year old Yeah, but I'm like because I'm an adult like that's good like it's like oh, yeah You're not that good at learning languages, but it's like ultimately like if you give me ten years I'll be able to speak like a 15 year old speaking Spanish And it's like that's but it takes a 15 year old 15 years to get you know what I'm saying Yeah, it's like there is some elasticity in the brain there but also we're just not giving ourselves enough credit. Nice. And so I

think that it's ultimately like we need to just go a little bit easier on ourselves and be gentle in this crazy big blue marble. That was a way cooler perspective than mine. No no no no. My perspective sucked and yours rocked. But I also agree that mostly the way that we teach language in the US is like not it's not good at all and like we just need to do so much more immersion and I just I just think would be so cool whenever I hear people like switch back and forth between languages and like that's so hot like I just want to do that. It's so hot and we just don't view it as necessary here like in Europe they view learning to speak English not

everywhere but a lot of places they view it as necessary it's like yeah you want to work a customer service job in Paris you're probably gonna encounter some dumbass from the United States who can only speak English. But we don't think that. We encounter someone who only speaks Spanish in our country or someone who only speaks whatever language and we go, oh, well, they should have known English. It's like, why? Why can't you know something else?

I will say one double standard that I think is interesting is that as an American, I feel like you're way more made fun of for having an American accent speaking a foreign language Than you are for speaking English with an accent in the US really and maybe I'm right aside from bigots like obviously But I'm saying like if you're an American and you go to like if I went to Spain I have a good Spanish accent so not to brag but like if I think if you like even if you're really good at speaking Spanish as an American if you Like can't roll your Rs or you pronounce things as an American, I feel like they're going to make fun of you. Whereas I feel like if you're... I know plenty of people who have lived in the US for 20, 30 years and English was their

first language and they still speak with the thickest French accent ever. And no one's like, oh, they don't really know English because they speak it with a French accent. But I feel like the reverse is totally true. Yeah, I think that's totally true and I think it's fair. I think it's good for us. I think it's nice that we get made fun of. Americans get so bent out of shape about Paris that a lot of Americans hate Paris because they go, oh, the French are so mean

to us. I go, good. We do need a place where that happens. Good. I like when I say, la dision, s'il vous plaît, and they go, shut up. I like that. I think that's healthy. They should be mean to me. It's good for me because no one's mean to me. No one's mean to you? Not until Paris. That's another good, that no one's mean to me. No one's mean to you not until Paris That's another good. That's a great chapter of the memoir to not until Paris until Paris They treat me like dog shit over there. I'm fat and tall and loud and American. They hate me Do you feel like it you could pass for any other nationality other than American? No, ma'am Hey, no ma'am, I asked I'm locked in on America. I asked my English friend I was like, do you think I could convincingly be anything of the American? He was like no

And I was like, what about like Canadian? That's like the same. He's like you're so loud Yeah, I mean, I know but like yeah, no, it's American for me through and through and I love that about me I randomly love America. That's so random. It's so random. You're so random I'm like for sure wish it was doing some different stuff, but it's so beautiful Yeah, there's so many different pretty parts physically I was thinking about that the other day like how much I like there are so many Americans that I love Yeah, even though I like don't like the institution of America And that's how I true about like that's how I feel about basically everything like any group

I like love the people in the group and then like the institution. I'm like, let's get rid of it Yeah, but like I love the I love the people the constituents like I think like especially I mean we of it. Yeah. But like I love the I love the constituents like I think like especially like I mean we both tour like getting to see all these parts of the country all the people like there's amazing cool smart people literally everywhere in America. I love the voters. I love the voters of this great country. Honestly I mean I feel like you would understand where I'm going with this I would love to run for mayor of Los Angeles. Really? Yeah I think about it a lot. I think about running for mayor of Kansas City sometimes just because I think it would be a key. You would win.

It would be and you'd win. I would do something crazy with it. I'd get silly. Like a fun holiday or like? Oh, worse. I would do things that they'd be like, I didn't even know you could do that. I'd be like, I would do free transgender surgeries. I'd go nuts. I'd make Kansas City. You'd do all the stuff in the Republican attack ads for real. Yeah, I would Transgender people had to play college sports. Yeah, absolutely. Guess what if you want to swim you better be trans If you're sis get out of the fucking pool and frankly and white like just for in the same way that I think like we should Just like white people shouldn't be allowed to vote for a few hundred years just to like kind of make it even Jensen I've been saying this I think cisgender people should stop playing sports for a while just to make it even. If I were ruler of the world,

first thing is white people don't vote for 500 years. Just to make it, just to fix it. Yeah. Then we'll see what happens, then we'll go back to everyone gets a chance. We're gonna go back, we're gonna go back, but for 500 years white people get no votes. I think that'd be sick and people go,

oh, you have white guilt. No, I don't. I think it's just logical. My dad's thing is he's fine with white people voting and stuff his his reparations is he thinks black people shouldn't have to pay Taxes, that's his thing. I think that's sick. I think he's right He has a lot of ideas take it a step further. I say no one pays taxes get it out of here Okay, and black people what can we do for black people? Whatever on record about it. Yeah, I'm thinking about black people right now

Yeah, go on record about it? Yeah, I'm thinking about black people right now. Nah, I give black people whatever they want. Whatever you want. Black people, get in the comments. Yeah, whatever you want. Whatever you guys want. Yeah. I'd have to, I honestly, if I was like, if the government was like, what do you want

as reparations? I'd have to really give that some thought. I think I would, you know what, I would want a beautiful Spanish style home in Los Feliz. Okay. That's what I want. I could do that for you know what I would want a beautiful Spanish style home in Los Feliz. Okay. That's what I want. I could do that for you. If I was in charge, I would do that. That would be beautiful. That's what I'll do if I get made president. I'll go individually to black people.

And everyone gets a wish granted? Yeah, and say, what is your thing? And you say beautiful Spanish style home in Los Feliz, I go, consider it done. And then my men go and seize one from a white. My henchmen go and seize a white family out of a white my henchmen go and seize a white family out of a barista yes yes I sent I sent 25 they thems down there to evict a white family and you move in same day you know same day while it's efficient same day yeah well these are non-binary people they're very they're on they can lift when they're on their meds shit gets done on time I was this

is sort of related I came up with I came up with the genie three wish paradigm. I want to know with people, if you had three wishes, one of which is really stupid, and one of which would help you specifically, and one that would help humanity. Because everyone's like, oh, I'd wish for the end of climate change and world hunger. It's like, OK, that's cute, but that's only one wish.

You get one of those, one that helps you personally, and then one that's real dumb. OK, one that helps me personally, I'm living forever. You want to be immortal? Immortal. I love it that helps me personally, I'm living forever. You wanna be immortal? Immortal, I love it. But, okay, so presumably everyone you love is also immortal. Or no, you wanna see them all perish. No, they can go.

You wanna get a new crop of family every 100 years? I wanna do it new style, yeah. I wanna do immortal and then I'll do it new style. When the one crop dies out, like if I'm immortal and all of you guys die, that was that era. And then the next time I go, I'm gonna start a new era. You get a fresh crop of podcast associates. I start a new era of all things, yeah.

So I'm going to be immortal. That's my selfish one. My silly one, it rains candy. Well, it's supposed to be silly. No, but that's perfect. Yeah, any specific candy or all the candy. Any kind that I like on the day. Just whatever you feel kind of that comes down. Because some days I I would wake up and of course it would be Twizzlers.

But then other days, some days. That's foul. Some days it would be Butterfingers. Okay. And some days it would be What's another candy I like. I'm floored by those being the first two because I find Twizzlers disgusting and Butterfingers are delicious but they are the crumbliest. What do you want it to rain? I mean if I had my druthers Almond Joy. We could do that one day. I love Almond Joy's that's that's an adult's candy. Yeah we could do that day we could do that day three. I got him. That'd be nice. I could do that or any other candy you want to cuz I was over red vines Yeah, Wow red vines are disgusting. I just don't I don't twizzlers are so slippery no The little twizzler bites I can see we're not gonna go I'd I on this Okay, so I did my one for me one for silly one for the world

Yeah, and it doesn't have to be like that you You don't have to fix climate change teleportation teleportation Okay, that would actually kind of fix climate change No more think about how much think about how much anxiety and pain and suffering in this world comes from not being able to be Where you need to be and from being in transit like being in transit like being in traffic and all that That's beautiful as well. You I mean I must you you project that you love a like a road trip I do love a road trip Yeah But then a road trip in teleportation land,

a road trip would just be like, you know how some people own records? Right. And then a lot of people don't, because they're like, that's over. Road trip would just be like, actually, I'm driving to LA. I'm having a fun drive. That's just for the experience.

And there's no traffic, because there's only like 10 people driving that day. Yeah, people would be like, why don't you just teleport? And you go, uh. You want to see the sights. I'll be driving. You get to be holier than now about it. Oh, yeah. Because that's the one thing I love to be holier than now.

I love to be holier than now. Yeah, absolutely. I do. I love any time I get to be and I'll do it around something I've only been doing for like an hour. I honestly also love to be holier than now. I love to like having just read an article to tell people like, actually, it's not true. It's a common misconception. Yeah. Oh, I love telling someone a common misconception.

And especially when I read something and I actually did read it and I didn't see it in a TikTok when I actually did read that New Yorker article about it, I love that. Do you know what people love to tell you? When you drink cold, ice cold water, they love to go, it's actually better for you if the water's not so cold when you drink it.

I mean as a singer, I'm getting, they're telling me that all the time because you're supposed to drink the room temp. But sometimes, when you wake up at two in the morning, sorry really thirsty. Sorry like needs to be ice cold Yeah, I need to wake and I need to lap it up like a dog. This is yes This is the best I'm gonna tell you right now the the best drink of water you can have you're staying in a hotel Mm-hmm, you wake up at 2 3 in the morning You're you're keeping your eyes half closed because you don't want to lose the sleep. Right, right, right. You stumble over to the refrigerator, you get one of the like $17 aquaponas.

You're like, but you're so thirsty, you're like, it could be a million dollars and I wouldn't care. You crack off the top, you take the biggest drink you can even imagine, and then you put it back down and go back to sleep. I would love to know like unexpected, like underrated best hotel experience you've had on tour. Like the best hotel you've stayed in, like in a random city. Yeah, this is a really good question. Best hotel experience I've had that I didn't expect though

is the part of it. Well, cause like obviously if you're staying in like a fancy city, in a fancy hotel, that's not that, maybe not that, but like for example, like I stayed in St. Louis when I was opening for Muna I think I stayed like an AC Marriott. Yeah, I felt like I was in a actual palace Yeah, the room was enormous softest sheets ever. I was like a high-rise. Everything was like stainless steel

I was like god am I James Bond like Midwestern hotels are crazy. They're Enormous I just stayed in a hotel room in Lincoln, Nebraska I actually didn't like the hotel that much but the room itself was a I paid I paid $270 for the night right kitchen right a living room with couch and TV 1500 square foot patio bedroom with its own separate doors Bathroom that was its own separate like wing of the room that was as big as the kitchen Then there was there was a hallway to the bedroom in the room that was as big as the kitchen. Then there was a hallway to the bedroom in the room that had fucking like standing video games.

Wow. Like Atari and shit. Wow. I was like, this is insane. It's crazy. I couldn't believe it. No, every time I go to Minneapolis, which is I played there a lot randomly and they love me there, I love them. Love Minneapolis. Every hotel room I've stayed in there has been like

the size of a large one bedroom apartment. And it's for like a couple hundred dollars. And I'm like, how is this possible? Meanwhile, New York, beautiful city, amazing. The last hotel that I stayed in there, well, the last time I stayed there, the room was a little bit bigger, but once I stayed in there

and I could not fit my suitcase in there. You gotta stay at the Chelsea. I don't think I've stayed there. Chelsea's really nice. It's like famous, right? Yep. That's like the Leonard Cohen. I remember the Chelsea hotel.

You better sing. That's me doing my like, whenever I like, if I'm singing like kind of casually, I have to like pretend to be bad, you know? Yeah. That's me doing my like whenever I like if I'm singing like kind of casually I have to like pretend to be bad you know? Yeah. That's like the rules. It's why I don't do karaoke. That was beautiful what you just did. Oh thanks. And you were barely trying which makes me sick. I don't do karaoke for that reason because I think it's rude. It is fucked up. If I saw you at karaoke I would protest. I think if like I've seen like Ariana Grande do karaoke and I think she's doing it with other singers. I think that's okay, I guess. No, at home. But even if I was with my friends who were also musicians, I'd be like, guys, we don't need to do karaoke. We do this all day. You know what I mean?

But people are like, what do you mean? Don't you love karaoke? And I'm like, no. No, people like me need it. Well, I think you strike me as the perfect karaoke person because you're not going to sing badly. You're not going to get up there and make people's ears hurt, but you're not like a singer. So it's not like you showing off. You don't, it's like pleasant and fun and camp.

And I'm going to pick like a, I'm going to do like, man, I feel like a woman Shania Twain. Exactly. Exactly. I'm going to get people involved. The one time, one time a girl that my older brother was dating made me do karaoke. She like came to one of my shows and was like, we're going out and we're doing shots. And I was like, what is happening? And I did a tequila shot, hated it. And then she was like, you're doing karaoke. And I was like, no, I'm not. And then she's like, what's your karaoke song?

I was like, well, if I were to do karaoke, I would do a hip hop like no I'm not and then she's like, what's your karaoke song? I was like, well if I were to do carry something I would do a hip-hop song. I'm not gonna say the song now cuz the rapper now We don't we don't associate with him anymore. It was a wonder But it was a rap song that I happen to know all the words to and then before I know it the song is coming On she's like I signed you up surprise And I had to like do once again being forced to rap against my will in like a bar in Chicago with like three people In it on a Wednesday night. That's also what she did is literally the villain plot line

from my best friend's wedding. Like what she did was so mean. That kind of stuff has happened to me a lot in my life. I've had a lot of kind of villainous, like I remember when I was in high school once, I was like sitting at a table outside after school and it was like some girls were like more popular than me, wasn't hard, barred clear.

And I was with them We were kind of getting along kind of hitting it off and then this one girl who really I think hated me a lot Came up to the table and was like, oh are we still going to whatever restaurant the girls were like, yeah Who's going and she's like, oh like Kelly and Sarah and Ashley whatever and then look directly at me and goes and I guess That's it. And then they all just got up and left That is bone-chilling and was like, that's actually crazy. That is bone chilling, how mean. Kids are evil.

And it's like, I'm ashamed that I remember that 10 years later, but unfortunately I do. How would you not? That's bone chilling. That's like sociopathic. It's basically like if she like stabbed an animal in front of you and like made you watch. It's like, that's crazy behavior.

That's nuts. I don't like that. I didn't love it. I'm going on the record. But that that was like the kind of but that you leave that before I left that behind It doesn't really happen to me anymore But like when I was a teenager like that kind of stuff was I look back and I'm like that was the plot of a Silly movie that I would have loved but I get too comfortable with people for sure you think I definitely do I do I push it to levels that are like

I'll meet someone first time that I do not know from Adam and they'll be saying something I'll be like well, that's because of your childhood insecurities and they'll be like what is that? So I so I would do something like that. I would say something that crazy. I'm like not physically I'm not getting comfortable with people for a while. Like I'm not like a big touch person. I'm a hugger I'm kissing on the cheek. I'm like very afraid to touch people I feel but like I will say something out of pocket Probably analyzing them. I would tap up the Pope there's something wrong with me there's something wrong with me okay but like these that example you're like would I dab up the Pope I don't I guess I wouldn't I guess I'd be afraid I guess I'd be maybe overly different although he was

saying some crazy stuff the Pope yeah he's so cool he was saying to grace and one of my best my best friend in the entire world. I was kidding by the way. Hahaha. Just playing guys. You don't think the Pope is super cool? Just playing. No, it's just like we went to college together. It's just like, it's like, it's like you don't want to like say.

I just know him differently, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like not like, yeah. We're gonna, I mean, we'll cut it, but yeah. But like the stuff that he was saying that he was getting into, ultimately like it was very homophobic, but a lot of my friends did think it was pretty funny. Didn't he say there was like an era of **** in the- Yeah, ultimately.

Yeah, that was kind of what he was getting at. Well guess what? That's fucking hilarious. And guess what else? He's right. I was just like surprised because I think he said it once and everyone was like, you can't say that pope whatever the pope is. And then he was like, sorry, and then said it again.

Yeah, look, here's what I hate is that gay people and leftists we all get painted as like woke boring woke scolds. I'm like if you say something true and funny we'll let it slide. Absolutely. If you say there's an Arab in the Pope's house the Vatican. If you say there's an Arab in the Vatican. The Pope sounds like it's the hype house. We'll be like period. He's like Corvette Corvette. That's I didn't see conclave but I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because they are being over there I and I can't really weigh in but I trust you, you know, they're being you can totally win I mean, it's like look at the regalia look at there's a lot of regalia There's a lot of regalia and then the you know, they're yeah, they're doing other stuff. They shouldn't be doing he's the least of the words

with those guys. Sorry. But ultimately, I do think, I agree with you that if something is funny, I absolutely will let it slide. Like I've laughed at some pretty, I can be a bit of a woke scold, maybe to some people, maybe some people would say that, but I will let something slide if it's actually funny. It's just most of the stuff's just not that funny. That's the thing.

That's most of the people that are like, oh, you can't get away with anything anymore. I'm like, no, you suck. I know plenty of people that are getting away with stuff. I've heard some homophobic stuff in Missouri from some farmers at a Casey's gas station. And they got a laugh. I was like, brother. When you got me, you got me. I'm like, hey, broken clock twice a day, huh?

There's definitely been some stuff. There's some comedy about black people that I've definitely gotten. And again, there's these people that I want to reference like we don't we don't associate with those people anymore But there's been some bits There's one comedian who did a bit about like black people really liking watching magic and like black people's reaction to magic and that I was Like you're right. You're not wrong about that. I've seen the Chris angel episodes black people love that We do love magic there's a difference between being hateful and making observations Yeah, is the real tea. But I will say, it's a you-give-a-mouse-a-cookie situation where sometimes you let someone

slide a little bit, you know, you let a straight person make a homophobic joke once or twice because they nailed it and then all of a sudden... They get too comfortable. They're queening out. Absolutely. Well, isn't that the end goal of society? We're all queening outening out well, but they're cleaning out in a way. That's like you got too comfy Yeah, you need to be a queen to clean out you do need to be a queen to clean out Don't clean out when you're not a queen and and we are giving out the Queen cards were the were the authority I'm handing out Queen cards all of a sudden. It's I'm playing a Queen out. I'm playing a Queen out

No one in here's a Queen What's give me back the Queen card the hell is open all the Queen's are here Exactly, that's what I'm saying. There's a lot of people playing queen in here when I was trying to actually queen out. I've considered this a queen out. Oh, I would hope. This is our Lincoln sleigh.

I hope so. This is our queen out for sure. Lincoln build. Our Lincoln build. We are Lincoln building. Yeah, yeah. You didn't ask me to help out with the record at all. I know how, if I could go back in time with the time machine,

where would you have kind of seen yourself slotting in? Backgrounds? Yeah. Okay, love. There were some moments that I was like, the backgrounds were a little low for me, so I feel like you probably would have... 15 feet from stardom. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm trying to be. And you know what? Background vocalists, those are always the ones with the best voices. Don't I know it? I feel like you would know. I'm locked in. I feel like you know all the background vocalists. I had such a good, I had such a fun moment

the other night at a concert. I was at a concert. I saw Hippo Campus in Brooklyn. Oh, Nathan Stocker, the guitarist, he's the guitar player on my record. Okay, well let me tell you something. You can pass this along to Nathan. There was an individual in the back, tall black person,

I do not know their name, I need to look them up. They, at one point, they were playing a tambourine. I turned to my friend and I said, the individual in the back left. I can tell you right now they're going to play five other instruments and they're going to be the star of this show. Yeah. And about us one track later that person picked up a trumpet and did a solo that I literally I'm not kidding. I turned around to strangers and said are you kidding? And the rest of the show every time they picked up an instrument I was like that is what I'm fucking talking about.

And you know what? You're actually so right on the money with that observation because a tambourine is like the hardest thing to play. Yes. And so a person who's picking up a tambourine and doing it well, that's a superstar. And when I see a multi-instrumentalist in a band and I know that they got brought on tour because they can play seven things, it's not because they play seven things okay. It's because they play seven things incredibly.

Yeah. And I say, that person, they're going to gonna get a moment and they're effortless about it Yeah, they're not bragging and they're not weird and it's just like literally they look like they're sometimes dare I say sometimes they don't even look like they're exerting any energy They're just like oh, yeah, just kind of effortlessly perfectly on B with the tambourine right now I'm like, what are you how do you they'll take something off and put some on I've never seen before It's it's astonishing and I kind of I sometimes wish I was one of those people because I'm not very good at playing Either of the instruments that I play you play piano guitar of those people because I'm not very good at playing

Either of the instruments that I play you play piano and guitar. Yeah, and i'm not that good at either of them I don't play either So i'm I salute myself. I salute you. I appreciate that and I find you to be really good at guitar, but okay I can accompany myself Um, but I like when I see real guitar players like really shredding I'm like, yeah, I have no business doing this and ultimately I will get to a point where I probably am not playing guitar That much on stage anymore. Yeah, but I right now it's very much like I do accompany myself. Like I'm kind of like doing, it's for the culture, it's for the community, it's for representation.

There's not enough black girls playing acoustic guitar, wearing glasses and crying kind of a thing. I've been saying that. There's just not enough of us and I'm getting out there. People are gonna keep comparing me to Tracy Chapman. Ultimately I'm not really anything like her, but that's okay. Yeah, I don't really understand that comparison.

I appreciate people. It's kind of like how, like, because there's like no black women, there's not enough famous black women doing folk music, everyone's like, oh, who's the one that I've heard of? Got it, Tracy Chapman. And the same way that my Asian friends are always being told they look like Lucy Liu, even though they don't, because there's just like not enough, there's not enough representation. An Asian woman, yeah. Yeah, like this is the, who's the first one I can think of.

I've had an impulse come over me. Okay. I want to do a segment with you. Okay, yeah, I'm ready. This is a true or false segment. Yeah, I'm familiar. I'm gonna do bad job. I believe you know I Believe you know it's work. Yeah, I'm gonna read you 15 statements You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think they're true or false and if you get ten or more correct Jensen We're gonna give you 50 US dollars. Absolutely. Are you ready? Oh, yeah dragonflies can't walk false true

A group of goats is called a trip false true the official. The official state gym of Washington is emerald. True. False. Petrified wood. There's no such thing as Diet Dr. Pepper. False. False there is. USC's motto is let whoever earns the palm bear it. False. True. The chicken is the closest living relative to the T-Rex. True. True. From 2010 to 2017 every tweet was archived by the Library of Congress. True. true true the iPod touch came out before the iPhone True false Harvard Westlake school sports team are called the Badgers false false. It's the Wolverines Flamingos can only eat when their head is upside down true true spongeBob SquarePants debuted in 2003 false false 1999 Exactly Joni Mitchell was born in Canada true true Mars is the only planet in our solar system to rotate clockwise. True.

False. It's Venus. Both male and female turkeys gobble. False. False. Only male. The world's biggest pyramids in Mexico. False.

True. How'd she do? Eight. Oh! I did better than I thought. You did great. I did way better than I thought. You did really good.

Because I was just really following impulse and instinct and vibe. You really were, you were tapped into source. Yeah. I felt. I was talking to spirit. You were talking to spirit. Yeah. You were in connection and conversation with source. Yes. Yes, Yes. Uh, Jensen McCrae. I have a question for you Yeah, what is so true to you Caleb?

I've given this a lot of thought and the thing that's so true to me is that I don't think we should call it internet Stalking when the information is publicly available. Come on I just don't think if someone has a public profile if I'm getting that information like a God honest American that that's not stalking And that's a real lover girl by the way. That's a real lover girl speaking. People don't love anymore. People don't love anymore. People aren't watching anyone's high school debate videos from 2012 anymore. And that's why we're in this situation. I have found some crazy shit on people that I'm dating. I've found, yeah, same. I know what your high school prom day

did last week for dinner. I am locked in in a way that, and it's not all the time, it's just when you really get in the zone and you need to know something about someone. Well, I found it's funny because that's kind of my litmus test of if I actually care about someone is how curious am I? I was talking to this guy a couple months ago and part of the reason I realized that it wasn't going to work out is I had zero curiosity about him. He posted a lot on the internet and I didn't look at any of it yeah and like there I was dating a guy for a couple months last year he did not use social media there were like

two interviews of him on a like a red carpet of a short film festival from 2018 and I watched them every day I'm completely addicted to you and I'm like sorry that's not stalking it's on a public YouTube channel sorry yeah it's not stalking to find something that exists It's just it's just so like I can't help myself Like that's the way my feelings about oh my god beautiful gorgeous. Yeah, so And the people who and the people who are down bad for you are finding that photo and they're locking in on it It's so funny that Jesus point this up because someone sent this to me this morning Like for to what why a friend sent me so we'll put this on screen in the episode I'm sure but chances pulled up for whatever reason a picture of me and

a youth group that our youth organization that was in high school with one of those people is dead now it's not funny it's no. And I don't know about the other ones. Well I know they're alive, I don't know what they're up to. But yeah, someone sent me this morning and said, oh my god, I was Googling you to try and find a piece that was written about you recently and I found this instead. I can't imagine why this comes up ahead of a recent coverage of you. I don't know what they were looking for. Yeah, I'm doubting that story.

Yeah. In the same way that like, like one time I posted something and someone messaged me was like, I can't believe you would write this about me. And I was like, why do you even why have you seen this? Like, oh, someone sent it to me. And I'm like, no, they didn't. You looked this up.

I just, I got caught. I got caught one time and I actually came and talk about the details of it because I know that they listen to the show actually But I was in a Situationship and I was doing some internet searches and I a Thing happened that shouldn't have happened. There was a there was a like or a touch or a top or something

Yeah, and I got caught in in caught in some disturbing sleuthing. It's the level where you're like 2011 deep in something. And I actually didn't scroll all that way. I clicked on it from a link from another thing and got a text message. No. Got a text message about it. Can I just say that that person's behavior,

they're actually the problem. Because what you need to do in that situation is take the W. What you need to do in that situation is take the W Yeah, we need to and go wow he liked my post from 2011. Yeah down bad down bad I mean nice. Yeah, and I'm gonna take that and put that in my back pocket for a rainy day I'm not gonna address that yeah, he was pretty upset and crazy to me By the way, it's his that's he's in the wrong I'm sorry, but him calling you out him texting you about like he should have been like flattered and taken the W and moved on

I think so Like if someone if I found out that the you about like he should have been like flattered and taken the W and moved on I think so Like if someone if I found out that the some whenever someone has done that something like that to me I never address it. I'm like, oh cute. You're I'm living rent free in your mind. So love it sweet I love that for me. I kind of love that. Yeah Yeah, that was a that guy that brought me a lot of shame. I'm I'm and I'm here to set you free I'm gonna Brene Brown this and I'm gonna say no shame free me Yeah, I'm going to doiling and I'm Brene Brownne Brown this, and I'm gonna say no shame. Free me, free me, get me out of there. I'm Glennon Doyling, and I'm Brene Browning, and no shame allowed here.

Brene Brown, where the hell is she? I think she was at the, wait no, she wasn't at the festival, but she's around. For some reason I thought you were gonna say the Grammys. I think she was at the Grammys. I don't know, that just really cracks me up. But yeah, I love to do some internet stalking and sleuthing, I hope people are doing it to me.

I think I give them a lot of content to do so. Every time someone new follows me I'm like looking at my Instagram again just to kind of get a fresh eyes on oh Yeah, when you have a crush do you ever watch back your own stories imagining that you're them? Yeah, well not only am I doing that Do you not only am I doing that? I'm watching my own stories all the time imagining that I'm any number of people so yeah being like being like oh my god So and so just followed me watching it going, how would I feel about him from this? Yeah.

I do that sometimes. I think that they should, one of my biggest complaints to Meta, I mean, I've got a lot of issues with Meta as a platform, I guess, but my biggest note is that you should be allowed to search your story viewers. Yeah, oh my god, I've been saying this. Because at this, at the point that we're at,

again, not to brag, but we have enough followers now, like if you get 10, 20,000 views on a story, they're not showing you all 20,000 of the people, and sometimes, like, you're not seeing the people views on a story They're not showing you all 20,000 of the people and sometimes Like you're not seeing the people who you care to know are viewing it Yeah, there needs to be a search bar so I can check hey did this person see it and that Scott lost or have they? Not in fact seen it and sometimes they'll show you who liked it But then when you go back and look at it, they'll show you a different crop of people who like that

And I'm like, well, where is he? I just want to be able to I got to point Can I say this down bad thing? I went in my last likehip, I would screenshot every time he liked my story or one of my posts. That's crazy. Yeah. And I like that. Just to look back on for, on a rainy day. That's really beautiful.

And when we stopped seeing each other, I did have to delete all those screenshots because I was like, this is really humiliating. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy and I love it. Yeah. I like to be crazy over someone, it's nice. It's fun, I don't know if I have the capacity for it anymore. I don't do it.

I really am, I've stopped. I think I may have lost the- I don't do it, I really am, I've stopped. I think I may have lost the oomph. I mean, I say that, and famously whenever I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of over love, I can't do it, then I'm literally days away from falling madly in love. So who knows? But I really feel in this moment, I don't know if I have the capacity

to be insane about a man anymore. Well, men are such an undeserving sight. But I love, when I am getting insane and I get to write a song, it's like, oh my God. But it's kind of sad, because when I write a great song about a guy, I'm like, oh, it's I love the when I when I am getting insane I get to write a song It's like oh my god But that it's kind of sad because like when I write a great song about a guy I'm like oh it's gonna end now because That was there I realized that was the reason he was brought into my life so that I could write this song Yeah, yeah, he was brought to you by source. He's brought to me by source so that I could write Massachusetts. Unfortunately, unfortunately Yeah, and now I have to never speak with him again. Yeah, that's my that's my plight

Yeah, but ultimately it's gonna keep happening even if I say that it's not. That's beautiful. Have you ever had something end well? I mean like it depends on like your, like no I guess not because I'm single right? So like nothing's ended well. No I'm saying do you remain friends with any of your? Yes, one friend and he knows this. When I was in college I was obsessed with an English exchange student like absolutely obsessed with him And we became friends were friends like a year

He dated other people and then we dated for like a month and then I was still obsessed with him for like a year After that and we like had a big fight cuz I was like in love with him And he was like I don't want to do this and then we like patch things up and now we're like best friends And he knows like all this all the love songs my first album were about him He knows that I sent them to him and I was like don't you love this and he's like oh my god So sweet we were so cute. It's great. He was like oh him and I was like, don't you love this? And he was like, oh my god, so sweet. We were so cute. It's great.

He was like, oh my god, that was so cute of you. I didn't feel that way. No, here's the thing. For the window of time that we were seeing each other, he was definitely locked in. He was having a great time. But he was in America for a couple of months and then he had to go back to England.

So we were not gonna be together, but I was 21 and I was like, we can be in a long distance relationship from LA to London. He was like, what are you talking about? He was like, hey, no we can't. He was like, I'm poor. we can't he was like I'm poor I can't afford to fly to Los Angeles ever to see you. I'm like he's like I may not he didn't come to Los Angeles I think for like three years. Yeah, he's like I can never come to the States again

Or no, we can't do this. So he was like absolutely not that's not happening but now yeah, you know, he's like one of my oldest friends we talk all the time and He's a real sweetheart and so he's like the gold standard that now whenever I did someone Like maybe it'll turn out like this again, and then it never does yeah unfortunately yeah Ultimately like everyone is like the guys I did do get very jealous of him when they hear about his existence So it's probably for the best. I don't have like a little crew of like former lovers. Are you jealous person? Yeah, kind of not like excessively. I think I'm the maybe everyone thinks this I think I'm the healthy amount of jealous like yeah yeah, I think I'm the maybe everyone thinks this I think I'm the healthy amount of jealous like yeah, I think like I'm not like I would I love the idea of like a guy that I'm dating having female friends

Like I think he should and like I don't think that like flirting is cheating Yeah, but like I also like if you I don't think if there's any activity that you and I could be doing together I don't think you should be doing it alone with another girl Probably like if you like like I hate camping and like I went camping with a boyfriend once and I hated it. But I'm like, you can go camping with another girl, obviously not alone. But like, it's okay if you don't invite me to do that, because you know I don't like it.

Yeah. But if I loved camping and you went with just another girl. Exactly. I'd be like, why? Yeah. That's mean. Yeah. But I think, so I think I'm the normal amount, but maybe I'm, maybe, I mean, I know there's

people out there who are like so cool and non-monogamous and are like, yeah, you can do whatever you want. I don't feel that way. Yeah, I Get I'll get sad if you kiss someone and also are kissing me There's pain in that laugh Can I say to my knowledge I've never been cheated on to my knowledge to my nose I've never been cheated on so I hope that you haven't I hope so cheating is so silly to me It's really crazy. I'm just like you could just actually end the thing you're in if you want Yeah, that's kind of where I land on it. Yeah, I I don't I'm not jealous really no, I don't think so. That's great I've never been in a serious enough thing. I don't think to be jealous to give credit to jealous people

But I don't really feel jealous when I have dated people if they're flirting with someone else I'm like, well, if you want to be with them, you could go be with them Well, that's kind of where I am at It's like if you if there's nothing I can do about it. You know what I mean? Like me, me being jealous is only going to push you away. Me being jealous of me being possessive is just going to make, if you weren't going to cheat before, now you're going to.

I also feel that my, what I offer is so specific and, and I think great, but I'm like, what I offer is very specific. If you don't want this, you are, you should absolutely go to something else. I would love that for you. It's a relief when to find out like oh like you thank you for not dragging this out any longer like ultimately like even though I've

only been like dumped dumped once and it was horrible genuinely horrible oh it would hurt my feelings I'm not not about be yeah but I look back now it's like we weren't we weren't even together for a full year and I'm like oh thank god he didn't drag it out any longer like he knew that he didn't want to be with me anymore and he made the decision like relatively quickly and was like alright It's over as because if he'd stayed for another six months of just like not being in love with me Yeah, horrible horrible and thank God he didn't yeah I'm always counseling friends on this when they're like yeah

I know that I need to break up with them But I think I just have to like let it get through Christmas, and I'm like no no not another holiday No, and I got dumped right before Christmas And let me tell you I did have to give those Christmas presents to my brothers, but at least we didn't have a fake holiday where you were f**king sick for your brothers. Yeah, they got a really nice. My brother got a really nice, like aloe sweatsuit. Yeah. Yeah.

Really sick to be your brothers in that moment. Yeah. I mean, there was a time one of my brothers dumped a girl right before Christmas and then I got her. He I think he got her like also a sweatsuit that he gave to me. OK, what's going on? That's kind of yeah. I mean, there's no good time to dump someone, right? No.

But don't make more fake memories. Don't make more fake memories. That's the number one thing I would say. I always tell friends, if they're like, yeah, well, it's just coming up on the whatever anniversary of their whatever with this, that. I'm like, no, if you know that it's over, end it. Do not wait out some special thing where you go back and hang out with their family and they have one more round of pictures with you.

Yeah, that's weird and bad. Stop it I will say that the last my last like actual boyfriend that I dumped I dumped at like the beginning of May and so he got To have hot boy summer. That was kind of actually really generous of me. That was so sweet of you. Yeah So well, he was like pretty upset about it But ultimately he did get to have hot boy summer and I can't think of a better time to dump someone that's like May Yeah, so if you guys if you have to dump someone you're thinking about it. I would say maybe May Yeah, good time. I'm like I'm like if you want to break up with someone in June wait until the next May

May wait the full next year I would say made made made May through July is okay August is a little tough because we're getting closer to fall and that's Cuffing season and that's a little bit sad. Ultimately you are gonna have to do it anyway But if you're talking about like once the kindest time to dump someone I would say made a July Yeah, cuz then they get to go out and be crazy at a rooftop bar. Wow. I love that Yeah I absolutely love that and so and that's and so on to your early question Like I was go from like Saint to like monster like I am a saint in that way

Yeah, I did get I did give him hot boy summer. Totally a saint. I've been saying that yeah, I don't yeah I've never been truly dumped by someone that I Wanted like people have definitely ended things with me where I was like, yeah, I knew that this should end also I think the first time now I my heartbreak has been unrequited love. Oh, I've had that too. I wanted them and they didn't want me. That's been the bigger majority of my heartbreak. But I think if I ever truly want someone and I'm enjoying the thing that we're in a lot

and they break up with me, I don't know what I'll do. Caleb, I threw up. I was at, I- Sorry, that's not funny. No, it is funny. Well, here's a couple of things that happened. And I do want to tell these stories because they're funny. A couple days after the breakup, I went on a run and I was like, I have to exercise some of my body so that I stop feeling like I'm dying. And while I have a running playlist, like the same five songs looped over and over that's

a good tempo to run at, one of which is Sex by the 1975, I was jogging in the park, crying, listening to Sex by the 1975. And that, as it was happening, this was two days after the breakup, as it's happening, I'm like, this is objectively hilarious,

but I can't laugh about it now, because I am in pieces, objectively very funny. And then a couple of days after that, I was out to dinner with some friends, hadn't been able to keep a solid food down, like the entire, like I hadn't eaten a full meal in a week after that I was out to dinner with some friends hadn't been able to keep a solid food down like the entire like I need in a full meal in a week and we're out to dinner with friends and we're like sitting on the beautiful patio of Super Bowl Hollywood and I'm still not eating anything and

I'm asking them for advice. They're giving me a terrible advice like literally like I'm talking this girl I'm not close friends with she's really sweet girl lovely but give it telling me the worst stories ever about like how she Went through a breakup and then got back together with the guy and I'm like that's not what I need to hear right now And I start feeling like ill and I realized what's about to go down and I did vomit, sorry, trigger warning, a metaphobia. I did vomit all over the hallway outside of the bathroom at Super Bowl Hollywood. That is so fucking funny.

Not Super Bowl Hollywood as well. Yeah. And I can't believe they didn't ban me, but my best friend was there and she retrieved me and like shuffled me out to the sidewalk and then went back in to like tell the staff I guess not you standing in the lime green lights of superbia Superbia superba while they were like your puke and she the one a waitress like what happened and my friend was like She's going through a really bad breakup on the waitress like oh, thank God. I thought it was the food Yeah, honestly. Yeah, like oh, it's just heartbreak. We can handle that

Yeah, but so if that is kind of what my response was to getting my heart like stomped on and it's never gonna be that bad again Fortunately, yeah, never ever going to be that bad again. Yeah, but that was that was that's the best as bad as it gets. I mean Delicious shrimp cocktail is super If you're not throwing up in the hallway, don't be scared to get the shrimp cocktail. And by the way, this was two years ago, guys. It's very clean there. Oh yeah, they've gotten the puke out of there. Oh my god, dude. I had a friend in college who had the puking phobia, like even the mention of it, and I

hated it. You hated the phobia? I hated hearing about it. You hated the phobia? I hated hearing about it. I honestly, I feel, I don't get it. And like, I have a bunch of, I'm afraid of a bunch of weird stuff. So like, it's none of my business what people are scared of. Like, I have trypophobia, the thing with the little holes. You know?

Yeah. That one's really bad for me. Really? What does it do when you see the little holes together? It makes me feel like my skin's crawling. And like, it's like, it makes me itchy. And it makes me feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin. Yeah. I didn't know that was real So a friend once told me she had that and so I pulled up a picture of little holes next to each other

That's actually that and that's a slur. That's violence. Yeah, what I did was violence I didn't know I thought she was straight up. She was kidding. It was the first time I had heard of it I thought she was kidding. She was like, oh when little holes are together. I just get sick I was like, okay, and I was like and I was putting up a thing to be like like this Yeah, and and oh my god that I was like I was like I was like, hey, that's my bad What I'm gleaning for this conversation is that you actually don't believe any of your friends when they say they have phobias Well, I'm just like what do you mean? It's I'm just not have any weird phobias fears I don't even know phobias like the right term any death. That's not weird. You know that

I don't think it's weird. But I'm like I do get scared There's like nothing like there's nothing in day-to-day life that like other people might find weird But to you is like a big deal No, I one of the big one of the big sticking points between me and most of my friends is that I'm pretty mentally well That Mike actually pretty solid on that and ultimately like you us having beef is less about me not releasing darling killer and more About you being mentally well our beef is about darling killer. I want that fucking song put out. I need to finish. It's only that verse in chorus. I need to finish it I asked for so little just put it out for me put it out for me finish it put it out for me I love it ultimately I feel like I have other songs like I put out a visual EP on YouTube a couple years ago

And I feel like fever dream is kind of ultimately that song I Know fever dream. I know the visual This is for the people this is for them plugging, you know, they're watching this on YouTube They can go click over So you guys go click on fever dream and tell me that you don't still want darling killer And if you go to tick tock and search darling killer, I know cuz I do it once a week It'll come up real easy go watch it and tell me you don't want that song I'm not gonna apologize for being a super fan. I never ever will no I appreciate it so much like I am such that I was so nervous going into this today because I'm such gonna apologize for being a super fan. I never ever will know I appreciate it so much

Like I am such that I was so nervous going into this today because I'm such a fan of yours I was like, what if I'm not funny and Caleb's like never again. It was a great episode though And we did it in fact well, just we tell people where they can find you and when your album's going out my album drop It's called I don't know how but they found me it comes out on April 25th And you can find me at I think think at Jensen McCray basically everywhere. And I hope you come to a show and stream the album. And I think pretty sure this episode is dropping the day my second single, Savannah, comes out.

So yeah, enjoy, enjoy Savannah, guys. Named after a person or the city? The city. Love the city of Savannah. Beautiful, haunted, amazing. Gorgeous. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, this was amazing.

Thank you for having me. That was a hate gum podcast.