So True with Caleb Hearon - Kumail Nanjiani Was A Cute Kid

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday’s! This week’s guest is the hilarious Kumail Nanjiani! Kumail and Caleb talk brand ambassadorship, Ice Cream College, his new special Night Thoughts streaming now on Hulu, a certain image that haunts one of their dreams, and much more!  Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/  Follow Kumail! @kumailn  Follow the show! @sooootruepod  Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings  Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud SUPPORT THE SHOW: Get a free can of OLIPOP: Buy any 2 cans of Olipop in store, and Olipop will pay you back for one. Works on any flavor, any retailer, including the Yeti limited-edition cans! Visit drinkolipop.com/SOTRUE  So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Virginia Muller. All episodes are filmed in The SoTrudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.  A Wave series. wavesportsandentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wave You know, and what you can joke about and not joke about does change with the times, and I think rightly so. Like, for instance, when I started doing stand-up back in bleep this, 2002. Holy shit. Sorry.

I definitely bleep that. What's up, dude? How are you doing? I'm great. How are you? Good. Let's snap into podcasting, no. What happened? What happened? It was so natural that suddenly everything's tight. I am good. How was your day?

How are you? I love my projects and my job. What about you? I like to promote them to the highest of my ability. You've been to impress all week. I don't even like the projects. I just want to go talk to people about it. Yeah.

Oh, what was my inspiration? For me, the project is work. The reward is when I get to do 12 hours of back-to-back press. That's right. People asking what my inspirations are, cannot get enough. Oh, love talking about that. I couldn't even tell you. It seems so, like, arrogant to be like, well, my inspirations are, I don't, I don't fucking know.

Yeah. My dad and my mother, shouldn't have rolled my eyes after saying that. You're beautiful parents. I genuinely love them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now it just sounds like I don't. It sounds horrible. You sound like a mean guy.

Which is the rumors about you. Good. Yeah. You know what rumor was going around about me last year that I didn't know about until, like, multiple people. Someone pulled down. There was a rumor growing around me. last year that I was having an affair with Michelle Obama.

Congratulations! I know I was so excited. My friend, our mutual friend, pulled Emily aside and was like, Hey, I heard that Comelle and Michelle Obama are like doing it. And she was like, she wasn't even upset. But multiple people brought it up to me. I've never met Michelle Obama. Okay, so no affair. Okay, got it.

Well, there was, at the same time, I'll never say, at the same time that that rumor was going around, there's been this persistent rumor that Barack is stepping out with Jen Aniston. Have you heard that one? Yeah. Wow. That's a fun one. That's been a persistent one.

Oh, my God. So you're... What do we think? We think it's real? I don't know, but what I'm saying is for my friend Kumil, you're up there with Jen Aniston in terms of a fair... I don't know. I think Michelle's slumming it and Barack... To be honest, no shade to Jen.

Barak's slumming it, too. No, you think? No. Who do you want to see him with? Well, I would... I'm saying Michelle Obama is a very high bar to clear. Yeah. And I love Jennifer.

for honest, I'm genuinely a huge fan. Yeah. I don't. Who would you vote for? Well, you don't want to see one of the leaders of the free world with an actor. I think you just don't want to see any actor getting that. I call myself a comedian, Caleb. Yeah.

Even worse. Yeah, even lower the total. Actually, I was going to talk to you about, I saw in one of, maybe it was like the trailer, one of the clips that they put out for your special, which is out now, it came out December 19th. by the time this episode comes out,

but you were in the special, I feel like you talk about being like, just so you guys know, I started in stand-up. Yeah, yeah. Because you've become now a big actor and you, but I have a similar thing

with the internet where I'm like, just so you guys know, I was in basements and addicts in Chicago. See, that was surprising to me about you because I knew you as like sort of an Instagram guy. Yeah.

And then Nick Kroll was the one. Have you worked with Kroll? Yeah, because he told me, he's like, this guy's actually like a good stand-up. And then I saw you and I was like, oh, okay. Because usually, you know, I've seen those people make the transition and it's not quite as sharp.

But when I watched you, I was like, oh, this guy is an actual stand-up. It's not always seamless, but that's the thing is it was the opposite for, and I feel like I wanted to talk to you about it because you've had a similar thing of like we both started in Chicago doing stand-up first. I did not know you started in Chicago. Yeah, I was at the playground. I was at the annoyance, the hide-out, all those spots. Yeah, hide out. Hide out, dude. I was in there.

That was for the cool people. was for the cool. The cool. I actually did feel that. And the first time I got asked to be on a hideout show, I was like, well. Okay, look at me.

Things are turning around. I said, yeah, I've just arrived. But yeah, I watched, when I watched you're in Emily's movie, I, and you had the one-man show. I don't know if it was at the playground, like filmed there or set there?

No, it was kind of, it was filmed in New York, but it's kind of, it's kind of set at the playground. I used to have a show. show, a monthly show that I did at the playground. Yeah. 11 p.m. on Saturday night.

Yeah. Only the best slots. And that was when Emily and I had first started dating. Yeah. Yeah. I got a, I asked I owe for my own show like way too early into being in Chicago. I love, I love the confidence of young people. They're so confident.

It was delusional and inappropriate. I was in Chicago for like five months and I was like, I think I need a headlining show. What did they say? Well, they said you can have Friday nights at 11 o'clock because no one wants it. How'd it go? Well, it went pretty bad. And then it went, basically what would happen was we had that slot for a while. They were like, you can have it as long as you're selling any tickets at all.

And so we packed it out with our friends, packed it out. I mean, we would get like 15 or 20 people in a 90 seat room like three weeks out of the month. I think it's amazing that you said 15 to 20 people. You said packed it out. Well, this is what I'm saying. One week a month, we would pack it out. So it would be like 15 to 20 people for three weeks. And then we would do a big special show.

Okay. We were like, this is, because it was new sketch material every week. Yeah. And we were like, this is our culmination of the month show. And then we would like sell it out. And so we kept that slot for a while. And then I want to say like maybe three or four months in, they moved us to an earlier slot. So we did get moved up.

But it was that first couple months was rough. Yeah. Because Friday's tough too because everyone has had a day. Like it wasn't like they slept in on a weekend and they were like. Have you ever done? like the comedy club thing. Like, have you done the seven shows Thursday to Sunday thing? Never.

So the late show Friday is notoriously the worst show. Yeah. Because they've been drinking since work. The show's starting at 11. Now they're like drunk to the point of sleepy and tired. Yeah. So half is falling asleep and half are just angry and yelling at you. So the late show Friday

is the worst of all the shows. Yeah. It was a nightmare. Did you do the club thing for a while? No. I actually, you know, this, for this special was the first time I actually toured, but before that, I did like four weekends of clubs just to get reps in and tighten up stuff. Because, you know, if you do a theater,

they're all facing you. They give you so much leeway. In a club, you know, at midnight, they're getting a check drop spot. They have to have a drink minimum. So it's a much tougher crowd. Yeah. And so I did that just to like cut all my stuff down

and figure out, you know, because I did my first weekend at the Denver Comedy Works, which is the best, one of the best clubs in the country. Were you in the Denver proper one or the one in like Greenwood? Proper. Yes, okay, cool. The worst show I had on tour.

Tell me. It was the night before, two nights before I recorded my special in Chicago. I did this venue in New York. It's underneath Times Square. No. Like the basement of time. Like, Times Square is a nightmare? Imagine the basement of Times Square.

What were you doing over there? Why? I think, I called my agent afterwards and I was like, never, never do this. I've had that phone call. Yeah. It was a bad venue for comedy, but the state. staff was very rude. Oh.

And just, like, did not want us there. Like, they were doing us a favor. That's the show. Okay, so that's the show. This was, you know, in March. I recorded it in March. So that's the soundproof walls. Kurt Braun Oler.

Do you know, Kurt? He's amazing. It was my opener. I saw him, like, eat shit for 25 minutes. I went on stage, shook his hand. I was like, how are they? And he's like, terrible. It's the first stand.

Only time my parents had seen me before. form. Yeah. And afterwards, and listen, as I said in the beginning, I really genuinely love my parents. They're genuinely very supportive. My dad is maybe the sweetest, sweetest guy, most hardworking guy I've ever met. After the show, I have all these friends with my parents come. And I go and I go to my dad and I'm like, hey, thanks for coming.

And he was like, it was good. And I went to hug him and he put his hand out. And his hand went into my belly as I was like, he had. And then they left. They walked out. And we haven't spoken about it since. That is fucking amazing. And I was telling them, I have a new special coming out.

And they're like, oh, is it the same show that we saw? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, okay. Okay, well, we might skip it. We don't need to see that. We've seen it. Where did you film it in Chicago? At the Vic.

Do you know the Vic? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the best. That's so cool. Yeah. Why are you doing this again? What happened? What a good question.

Well, because I like to believe that we get past this. at some point, but now you're back? I wouldn't, it started in the actor's writer strike. Because I was like, you know, I, to be honest, did not miss stand-up. I really did not. I was loving acting and writing other stuff and, you know, because I don't have like different buckets

for everything. I wasn't feeling the need and to get up in front of an audience. Like, I've worked with comedians like shooting something at a night that go do a set. I don't want to do that. Fuck that. Yeah, it's like a disease. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Yeah. But it was the actor's writer's strike.

and I was about to go to this movie, and then suddenly I was really frustrated that it went away, and I was like, what am I going to do? And for years I had this thing. I hated, I didn't miss doing it, but I hated not being good at something that I used to be good at. So I just went back on stage to be like,

is this something I can still enjoy? And can I be good at this again? And I'd gotten so scared of it. That I just, like, hated that. Because I remember when I was in New York, I spent two years in New York, and that was when my stand-up was like, at its best and I'll never be as good as I was then, you know.

But I remember feeling like I could go up in front of any room and kill. And it felt like later it felt like that was a different person. I could not imagine ever feeling that about anything. So I was like, am I able to like recapture some of that? So I really did it just to see if I could do it. And then I haven't really done it since I recorded it. Yeah, so I approved it to myself and now I'm checking out again. Well, I mean, you know, I just, I get excited about other stuff.

Like, to me, acting is so much harder than stand-up. Not that stand-up's easy. I think the performing of stand-up, I find to be fairly easy. I think you do too, I assume. You're, like, very natural on stage. The writing is tougher. Like, it's hard to come up with bits, and it's hard to write, and I enjoy it.

If I already have a bit working on it, I enjoy. But if I'm looking at a blank screen and I've got nothing, that's, like, really, really difficult. So I find acting so much more challenging and difficult. Like, you know, when I'm like really got a great set, when I'm doing sets with other comedians, there's nobody really that I go and see like, oh man, I don't, I can't do that, you know? But with acting, you work with actors or you're like, whoa, what was that?

I can't do that. Like, that to me is really exciting. Like someone like really fucking having a real moment with you, the El Cut and they're like, ah, so, uh, did you have any bagel? today, you know, to me that's magic. Yeah. Like, name drop. I worked with Ewan McGregor and pretty good name drop. And he...

That's a pretty good name drop. Solid. Yeah. Solid. Okay, I had to say something later. Yes, you and McGregor. He's goofing around, talking, action. As I was saying, like, to me, that's magic. And I'd be like goofing around with him. I'm like, hey, this is a pretty intense

scene. Do you need a moment? He's like, no, I don't need a moment. And he's like, on it. To me, like, I'm like, I don't know how you do that. So that's what's exciting about acting to me. Like, I want to do that. That's, yeah, and I do think it's way harder. And I think there's so many reasons it's way harder.

But for me, the biggest one is I'm not in charge of my own life for the whole time I'm filming something. Like, they tell me when to show up. They send the car. They put me in the car. You're literally a number on a sheet. I'm a number on a sheet. And it's like, you know, a scared, frantic 22-year-old bangs on my door and then

like takes me away. Yeah. Like, the whole thing is I'm just like not being in charge of my own time. at all is the hardest part for me. That is hard for you. I hate that. I love the structure of it. Really? I love someone being like, get here at this time. You'll be done by this time. I

found in COVID, I completely switched. Like, my day is very, very structured and regimented now, which is why one of the many reasons that press week is so difficult for me, because it throws everything off. But I go to bed at the same time. I wake up at the same time. I write for the same time every day. So I really, the structure of it actually makes me

feel very free. What does your day look like? Your normal day at home? I'm not shooting. You're not, normal day at home, you're not shooting. What do you do? What is your day? Because hearing you go to bed at the same time to me is like, I can't believe that. Are you one of those people that's like evaluating how cool someone is when you're talking to them? I have already evaluated you. Okay. I come up with my answer. I don't want to know. No, I want to tell you. No, I'm not evaluating you. I'm curious because I need, I think, can I tell you my struggle? It's this. I think that I would benefit from some structure. and some regiment

and I think I actually secretly like it but I'm like a fucking child or something and I continue to not have one and then I suffer. I am if I left to my own devices

nothing to, I am in bed before nine and I get up around 6.30 and it brings me tremendous joy. I absolutely love it because I do feel I feel like my life

has really two things. It's my life with Emily and that really is you know I had this epiphany I was like, that is my reason for being on this earth. Like, getting to know Emily. Yeah, that's like one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Otherwise, it's pointless.

It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Keep going. I do realize that what I have with Emily is a very, very special thing. That's not to say that we don't have to work at it. We really, really do. And it is work. There's joy in the work. But there is intentional work that we have to do every day.

But I realize that what I have with her is a very special thing. That is my purpose for people. being. The other thing is work. And if I go, if I'm going to bed early, uh, my relationship with Emily is, is better because we're like spending time and bed together and waking up at the same time. And, um, my, I feel like I'm more present for work. Like I'm, I'm waking up early. I start writing by eight, you know. So it's just kind of like really, all the things I care about really line up if I'm going to bed early. It's changed, going to bed early specifically is the thing that's changed my life most in the last five years. I can totally believe that. I think that. I think

that it's probably 100% the way I should be living. I'm not prepared to do it. Is Emily going to bed at 9 o'clock as well? We have a rule that we set up when we first moved to New York. So when we first moved to New York in 2007, bleep that. Bleep that. Actually, let me take it again.

It's like I said, when Emily had I first moved to New York in 2017, used that. Emily had a job. I was like, I'm following my dreams. I was going out, doing open, mics, staying out late till 4 a.m. coming home and I was playing a lot of Halo at night. Okay? And I was playing Halo. I liked the hmm from that was the biggest reaction. He's liking that. Yeah. I was really good. I got really, really good at Halo. And I would

play so much that like the languages in my ear would change, you know? Like it was time for someone in China to be like playing at a reasonable hour. And Emily eventually was like, I have a fucking day job that I do not like. I'm supporting both of us. This is kind of bullshit that you're sleeping all day and you're playing video games all night. New rule. We go to bed at the same time every day. I love her. And since 2007-200-A, we have stuck to that every single night that we've been together we go to bed at the exact same time. And it used to benefit her because she had a day job and now it benefits me because, you know, for work you sometimes have to get up at 5 a.m. to go to set or whatever. That's usually when you wake up.

So she's going to bed with me at like 8 p.m. and stuff. Yeah. We go to bed at the exact same time. I really, really love Emily. I think she's so fucking cool and brilliant. But what is your favorite thing about her if you had to pick? You know what? She has this thing where Emily's, I mean, here's,

my opinion on her is not objective, obviously. I truly think she's the coolest, best person I've ever met. I really believe that. But it is subjective, but people do feel that way about her. I tell Emily this, I'm like, people feel like there's some, like, magic about you. There is. There really is. No, she's really fucking cool, yeah.

People really fall in love with her immediately. What I love most about her is that the parts of her that she shows me that she doesn't show anybody else, you know. Like, and it took me years to get there. She's very, she's very good with people, and she's also very good at connecting with people and giving the parts. Like, no one would say Emily's closed off, right? She's very emotionally open. However, there is some curation to it. There is some stuff that other people don't get to see of Emily.

And I'm the only person in the world that gets to see it. I find that to be really magical. The other thing I love is she's such a brilliant writer. And I love that I'm the first person in the world that gets to read her writing. So I'll read something she wrote. And I'm like, you were just in that... That's what you were doing that day. I was trying to write

pretty terrible stand-up and you wrote something that's like a piece of view and a PDF like it's pretty magical so she just wrote this beautiful script that I've thought about every day since I've read it

and it's like it's truly one of the best things I've ever read and it's one of the most personal things she's ever written it's really fucking fucked up and messy and that's what I love

is that she has that like stuff in her the thorny, spiky stuff emotionally spiky stuff that most people don't get to see that I get to see. She has one of my favorite qualities that I've gotten to spend more time

with her than with you but I think just based on the things that she's told me about the things you guys do together and stuff I think that you have as well. But she has, it's one of my favorite qualities in any type of relationship that I have in my life that I'm always looking for

which is curiosity and enjoyment. She's very curious and she wants to know about things in a genuine way. She genuinely cares about people. I love curiosity. I think curiosity about stuff and places and wanting to try new restaurants and wanting to watch new things

and when someone brings something up, you can tell when you're with somebody and you bring something up that you care about and they're like indulging you and being like, sure, talk about that. Versus a genuinely curious person who's like, okay, now, like, who really locks in and wants to know?

The follow-ups. Yeah. Yeah. I love that about her. She's also, to me, the perfect mixture of head and heart where she's very emotional and leads with that, but also is like intellectual about the right things, you know.

So like she's got, she's look, and she's the one who sort of taught me to have like structured during the day. Her day is very structured. But she's a really, really free spirit. So I learned like if I can have like rigid schedule within that, I can really like fly around. Yeah. Ugh, unfortunately something I probably need to hear right now. I don't know.

There's just something. No, I'm not. I'm really not trying to push it because I think it's different for everyone. I'm from a nocturnal family, you know, like in Pakistan. We don't eat dinner till 9 p.m. at the earliest. Generally 10 p.m. My mom's up till 2 a.m. every night. Even now, like New Year's Eve, they're out later than I am.

So the night is so great. It is really great to be up at like 2 in the morning and stuff. You know, it's a really, like, magical time. It is a magical time, and I do love it. I think I could get better. I actually have gotten better in some ways. But, yeah, I think schedule would benefit me right now. I did something kind of cool last night.

and just trigger warning for you listening, this is a guy who has a little bit of money behavior and I understand that. We're always apologizing for that. Oh yeah, I feel bad. Yeah, I am really sorry. This wasn't supposed to happen to me and I totally acknowledge that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel bad about it.

Yeah, the world is a dumpster fire, but I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay, I made a little money, I'm sorry. Sorry. I do feel bad about it, but I was... I donate, I donate, I donate, you guys. I post the receipts on the video right here, just pictures of receipts. I was, I got home on Sunday. I ended up doing a couple spots at Union Hall.

I was just gonna go watch a friend show and then they were like, can you do a set? And I was like, for sure, I haven't done seeing up in a minute. So I was like doing some new stuff. It was super fun,

stayed out. Did you kill? I did pretty good. I would say I maybe did like a B. Okay. But it was all new stuff so I felt excited about it. Yeah.

You know those ones where you're like, if I had done some older stuff, I would have like, I feel like I would have murdered and it would have felt a different kind of good. Sure. But this kind of good is better. It is a better good.

So I felt I was having a good time and I enjoyed it and I talked to some, I met a new comic that I hadn't met before in the bar after and we chat it for a while. Having a good night. I was a 45 minute walk from home, walked home. Oh my God, you're a superhero. Oh, I love it. In this weather? You bundle up. This is my favorite time of year to walk.

Really? You bundle up and you fucking go. It's awesome. I cannot handle the cold. Do you put on a big coat and a scarf, Camille? You're not okay. Not okay. Look at me.

I'm not built for this weather. I'm like equator people. I love it. I love it. And I love it. It's my favorite time of year to walk in New York because everyone is, well, everyone's wearing really cute outfits, but everyone's like, if they're walking with someone they love, they're like touching a lot.

And it's very, it's very, like, beautiful and pretty. I like just walking around smiling at people that are holding each other. I'm like, aw, look at you guys. Oh, my God. That's beautiful. I love it. But here's what I did. That was awesome.

I was in bed and I really wanted to order McDonald's because I, got a little stoned and I was hungry as fuck. And I was like, it's only going to keep you up later and you're going to feel bad. Like your stomach is going to hurt in the morning if you eat McDonald's right now. So I was like, don't do that. And instead, I got a little more stoned. And right before I went to sleep, I, I ordered breakfast for myself to get delivered to the apartment.

Strong love. Like 15 minutes after I knew I would be getting in the shower. So I was like, I'll get up. I'll get in the shower. I'll be excited that my food is coming. And I ordered bacon. And I ordered bacon. and an avocado toast and like a jammy egg and an ice latte.

It came the second I stepped out of the shower and then I just sat on my couch and ate it and I was like, this is the coolest thing I've never done for myself. I don't even think that's rich people behavior. It was a $45 bacon and avocado. It was like I spent $45 on it. Yeah. That's not appropriate.

No. But I have it like that. He has $45 to throw around. Anytime I want to spend $45, I can do it. You don't even think about it, do you? No. I did.

And last night was one of them. Sometimes I do see the number of something I'm about to do. It feels ridiculous. And I think about how poor I was my whole life until like three years ago. Yeah. And I go, there's just little moments

that I go like, that is fucking crazy. This would have ruined your life four years ago. Like you would have ruined your month by doing this. You know what I mean? Like $45 can ruin my month in a different time of my life. Totally. I remember when I had, like Emily and I had less than $20 in the bank,

so we had to find an ATM that gave $10 bill so we could get money out. Truly, I mean, it was like, I overdrafted my, the North and Wells McDonald's in Chicago. Yeah. Overdrafted on McChickens. Uh-huh.

Not a small amount of times. That should be the name of your special. Overdrafting on McChickens? Yeah. Or your memoir. Yeah. Overdrafting on McChickens. I did, dude.

It was so, and they were, you know, what, a dollar. or 60 cents or something. It's like really humiliate. Yeah, it is. It is. I remember my roommate and I, he had, we had a Burger King across the street and they had this thing where for a dollar you could get two tacos. And we would get that and each

have one taco. They had tacos for a home. I was like, what? They had tacos for a moment. They tried. You know when Taco Bell was really like making moves? And people were like, oh, we should. Taco Bell had a heyday. Like the Yokiro Taco Bell era? No, they were big. Yeah. Is that, is that like, are you too young for that era? I don't remember that. remember the Chihuahua?

Yeah. Having a big cultural moment. Was that that that? He would say, Yokoa Taco Bell. Okay, I remember him. I don't remember his phrase, but I remember him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So during then they were like sort of the, I would say they were the eminent, the preeminent, you know, the biggest,

coolest fast food place. Yeah. Then Subway had a moment and they really, they really ran into a wall with the guy that they picked the wrong guy. They picked the wrong guy. First of all, first of all, why that guy? He's a charisma black hole. Why was that the guy they picked?

But just because he lost the weight eating the sandwiches, I think. And I want to clarify that him being a charisma of black hole is not the worst thing about him. No. There are other much worse things about it. No, being fat, et cetera. Yeah, listen, I've never been fat. Where's my medal? Wouldn't do it.

Yeah. But I don't know why that's the guy they picked. He's such a blank wall. Yeah. Are you a brand ambassador for any brands? I know you've done some. Couple. What are you, what are they?

Quest, Protein products. Really? Yeah, I'm a brand ambassador for Quest. I didn't know this. Yeah, I mean, I've done commercials for them. Yeah. And for DirecTV,

they're really, they're really coming back. Well, not they've got Camel. I mean, things are moving in that direction. That's really their marketing slogan right now. We're really coming back. Yeah.

Yeah. Guys, we're coming back. So those are the two that I'm doing. For a long time, I didn't do any of that. And now I'm like, everybody's shameless. Everyone's doing it. The concept of selling it. I mean, I've talked about it on this show. This show's a prime example of how selling out is back.

It's kind of the impetus of this show is selling out. I'm here to read ads and make money. What are your ads? What are you doing? Oh, God. I mean, we are doing Squarespace, Olipop. Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot that we've done in the past, like, smaller ones. But we're trying to move into doing like bigger partnerships for long. times. I do have a rule that I don't, I won't endorse a product that I genuinely don't believe in. So like Quest, you know, I do. I do, I've been eating their products for, for years. And DirecTV is a service I'm aware of. Do you know what's funny though is we do the ad reads on this show in a very like silly way. And sometimes brands will get upset. And I'm like, this is better. People are only watching because of how I'm doing it.

I know you want to be precious about the brand. I get it. I'm telling you, if you let me be silly, more people will walk away from this, remembering the name of your thing. Yeah. Then, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I think Conan's very good at that. Like Conan does all, you know, all his ad reads are very funny and he makes fun of the products. Yeah. I think he's like, you know, he's doing great. Yeah.

He's okay, Conan. Yeah, Conan's doing okay. Yeah, he's had like a fine career. Yeah. You know, I think of this. Conan to me is the platonic ideal of how like a straight old. white man comedian ages.

Because so many of them fucking disappoint us. Over and over, like all my comedy heroes have like fallen. And then Conan is like truly growing and learning and like getting better at what he does and deepening. So it's weird to say

to be proud of someone that is like the reason I do stand up, but I'm proud that he's like one of my inspirations. He's one of your inspiration. I really think, And here's the real secret that I would tell a lot of old white guys. If he does have bad opinions

and I don't think he does. If he does, he's keeping it to himself and that is always an option. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. You know what I love, I hate to bring this up again. The Riyadh Comedy Festival.

It's gonna be my favorite story of the year. And a friend of mine's having a New Year's Eve party where they're like, you have to dress as like a cultural moment. I'm definitely going as the Riyadh Comedy Festival. Because it had so many gifts to give.

I love how, like, rocked some people were by the reaction to that and just kept bringing it up and, like, defending themselves. It's like, you just got to shut up and move on. That's the only way out of this. I also love that some of them, like, try to donate the money and then the people that were donating it to were like, we don't want it. Hey, man. We're good.

Keep it, keep it. And some of them weren't even like, we're going to donate all of it. Some of them were going to donate. not, they didn't say a number or percentage. Some of it's getting donated. Do you know, do you know the numbers? I know some of the numbers. I don't know the numbers.

I know what people got paid. Yeah, that's what I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the biggest number you've heard? I heard 600. Oh. Was the biggest one I heard, personally. Three million.

You're kidding. For one set? Yeah, you start to think about your values. You think who among us, you know? We all have blood on our hands. Yeah. Sometimes you can't name the again. exact guy whose blood it is, like in the

Riyadh comedy festival you can. You could literally name the guy whose blood it is. I know the guy. But for three million, I'm able to forget. Three million, I mean, that's the biggest one I've heard. I think there's a couple people who got more than that.

I know a friend of mine who turned down a million for it. For one set, and he turned it down, which I think was obviously... There's no number I could have done it for. Because for me, I'm getting shit from, first of all, it's just morally wrong. Also, I'm Pakistani. We all stand up and clap.

Thank you. We all stand up and clap. We all stand up and clap. Thank you, Camel. Put that in like 100 people clapping. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because first of all, obviously, I'm getting shit here, as I should have gotten. But also in Pakistani, and Pakistan has a very specific relationship with Saudi Arabia.

So I'm getting shit there, too. Yeah. There's just no amount of money I could have done it for. I would not have done it for $1 billion. dollars. I would not have done it. I believe you. I would not have done it. I believe you. At the end of the day, we, I would like to actually, there's so many people I've had this thought a lot lately. I would like to just grab a lot of people very firmly by the shoulders and say, you do know you're going to die, right? Because people seem to be forgetting this. And I'm like, at the end of the day, you're going to die and you're going to have to like either take into the afterlife if that's a thing or leave behind,

like the idea of who you were and what you stood for. And at a certain level, like whether or not you have a 17th home while you're here, it's not worth it. genuinely think, like now we're obviously in a world, this is not a deep insight or anything, in a world that is run by a very small handful of extremely rich people, I genuinely think it is an undiagnosed mental illness to want money that's more than a certain amount. Like these people who are competing each other who have the most, I think there were two undiagnosed mental illnesses that I think genuinely could be in the DSM. One is these billionaires who want to make more money, which is crazy. For me,

one billion is enough. Like, I don't want any more than one billion dollars. Call me humble, but I'll settle for a billion. I don't know what I do with anything. 1.5?

Oh, that's a waste. I don't know what to do with that extra 500 million. But, and the other undiagnosed mental illness, I think is, and Emily, Emily talks about this too, and Emily's a,

you know, she's a trained therapist. Child actors who got like really famous, super young And what that did to them, I think is also an undiagnosed mental illness. There's no name for it. 100%.

But people who grew up in the public limelight like that, I think got broken in kind of specific similar ways. Yeah, it's child abuse. I mean, what those kids go through and the way that adults talk to them, the positions they put them in, the way that they treat them is insanely inappropriate. It's crazy. Yeah, the way we talked about Britney Spears has. always been insane from the beginning.

Like, she was like 16 when she like showed up, right? And people have been talking about her weirdly that entire time. Yeah. Yeah. Not you and me though. I think my, you know, my hands are clean. Folks, I'm a lifelong soda lover.

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Have you gotten in trouble? Have you gotten in trouble for anything? Like, if you had any, like, big trouble moments where you're like, oh boy, call the bubble sis, we're in trouble. Have I gotten in trouble for anything? No, I don't think so. Not like that. Wow.

The biggest thing I had that I was like, this is a moment is I mean I talk about it in the special was like you know I got like buff for a role and there was like a really weird backlash to it I would say and I do not I fault them I don't fault myself

but that is the biggest like thing reaction that I've had to deal with I think that's the biggest one beyond that I don't I don't think I've got any of my opinions that I think might be like on the line I keep to myself but I genuinely don't think I have

any like I try you know I try to be pretty reasonable about things yeah I'm in trouble every week what are you doing oh I'm in trouble every week I'm always in trouble for something on the show but part of the reason I'm in trouble every week is what's never my fault I buy that I believe that no sometimes it is sometimes I just you know when you talk this much I it's an hour every single week and then additional of like actually doing shows and stuff yeah I stumble into some things that I'm like yeah I don't know if I necessarily believed that I was maybe bored But most of the problem is I have a large audience of two very sensitive groups. One is Gen Z and one is Tinder Queers.

And Tender Queers are, oh, Tender Queers, I love them. They pay my bills. Tender Queers? Tender Queers. What is that? This is like, Tinder Queers are like a soft group of people living in a reality that is not mine. They're just very like, they're very like, you should never say anything that could upset.

anybody. I got it. You know, it's just very like, very like, oh, well, why would you say that? That could hurt someone. And I'm like, well, because it was funny. Because I'm kidding around. Well, the other adjustment that has to happen that I've had to deal with, and I'm sure you're dealing with is like, soon as you, as a comedian, your job is to present your opinions and present them in a way that is funny and possibly a little bit controversial. Like, that's what kind of the job is. Then as you become known above a certain line, suddenly those things are viewed with a different lens and now you've become like, like, I think you have this where people look to you as

like some sort of aspirational figure. Like they sort of look to you. They really do, I think, as like someone who's like speaking for them or is like some sort of like modern day philosopher or something. But like people look to you to have certain opinions or lead the way about certain things. They really do. And that's a lot of pressure. They want us to, I've talked about this a lot, but they want us to be their voice. about things. They want us to like, they want us to be like,

fuck Donald Trump and fuck ICE and all these things that I do. And you're pro both those things. And I love those guys, you know, because the ISIS law enforcement,

they're doing their jobs. No, kidding, kidding. I, yeah, I do, I am outspoken and I do have big opinions and they want you to do that. But then the second one of your big opinions brushes up against their special thing. Yes.

All of a sudden it's like, well, why would you say that? And it's like, because you asked me to. Right. You just have to like intention is important. Yeah. I really think that. And, you know,

and what you can joke about and not joke about does change with the times and I think rightly so like for instance when I started doing stand-up back in bleep this, 2002 holy shit I definitely bleep that I don't even want people to see that

expression on your face put like a cop filter on it you know the show cops that was a show from the distant history so it changed so like when I was doing it you know people could do like ironically people could like do like anti-Jewish jokes ironically and it was received that way and I'm saying it was right or wrong back then

but I'm saying it was more acceptable to do that and see the irony of it right and now we're in an era where I don't think you can do that because Nazis are legitimately back yeah so that changes right and also I think like you know people all and I never obviously was on board for this like people would make a lot more rape jokes back then And now we've understood, like, you know, even that stuff is harmful, like normalizing it in any way. But and keeping up with what is appropriate now, which maybe was never appropriate, but now it's more in the conversation that it's not appropriate. I think it is part of our job to be aware of that. But also, I mean, you know, it's like some of the stuff you've said you've gotten in trouble for, I think it's like probably fair game.

Yeah. But also I think I don't, you know, there's this question sometimes like, how is this joke going to age? how will your comedy age? You can't really... I don't care. It doesn't... Yeah, it's a moment in time. Because if you're making a certain type of joke

in a moment where that's what's being discussed, and then later on we decide as a culture, maybe correctly, maybe progressively, that we shouldn't be talking like that about those things. Comedians are a part of like forming and, you know, testing the boundaries and seeing where we should go. So I don't... I'm not mad at comedians who were making jokes back then

that I wouldn't make now. I'm like, they were helping inform where we were going and what we should be talking about. This happens a lot with younger people who watch movies from the 80s and 90s, and they sort of get offended by a lot of stuff in there, you know, and you're like, it's just, that's what was, that's what was in the soup back then. Yeah. Everything we're making is like a reaction to or a comment on those times.

You can't guess where things are going to go. Yeah. We moved past it, and we certainly don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but the thing about you getting really buff for a role and people getting upset about it. Yeah. I wonder, I mean, as somebody whose body is just constantly commented on all the time, no matter what time. Really? Is that right? All the time. No matter what's happening. If I've lost a little bit of weight, it's, I'm hearing about it in the DMs.

But yeah, as somebody who constantly has their body commented on by seemingly everybody, was that like difficult for you? Or were you just like, I am right. They're being weird. No, it was a fucking nightmare. It was as someone who grew up, I had almost my entire life very, very, very. very, I don't know how to put this, a tough relationship with my own appearance. Since I was a little kid, part of the problem was when I was like a little kid

when I was like five, zero to six, I was the most gorgeous kid you've ever seen. Like, I was fucking beautiful. That's towards the end of it. That picture you're looking at? He's adorable, this guy. I love this guy. Yeah, yeah, okay.

So that's like, that's like, I was really, really very very, very. cute and to the point where people on the street would make jokes about wanting to kidnap me sure like I'd go into a shop and they'd be like I'm gonna put you in my dungeon and it was life I was so gorgeous that life was like terrifying for me okay I remember I visited with my aunt to I went to Bangkok and for some reason Thai people just really were picking up what I was putting down they were fucking as like a five-year-old they were fucking with this they were liking the energy yeah and then

So I went from like just like a gorgeous, gorgeous boy to like a true demon. Like my head grew to this size. My body stayed the same size. The neck got super long. My nose grew before anything else. And so whatever it was, from that point on, I just thought of myself as being very ugly. And it took me years and years to get to the point where I was like, okay with how I looked. like how I looked was way too important to me.

It still probably is. But it took years and years to get past that. All through my 20s and even through my 30s, it took a while for me to be okay. Like, there were times when I was like 10, 11 where I wouldn't go to a store because I thought they wouldn't sell me stuff because I was too ugly.

It was really, really very intense. Yeah. And so also my 20s and 30s to work through it and be like, I like, I like the way I look. Also, it doesn't matter how I look, all that kind of stuff. And so then to then hit my 40s and suddenly have that come back

in such a public and strong way really got at, like, what to me genuinely was like deep childhood trauma. Yeah. And I could, I don't want to go into details about what I think was behind that.

And the way it happened was, so, you know, I did this movie, I released pictures of myself looking, the way I looked then and it was really, really like good. Like people really liked that.

Then COVID hit, we were all in the house and then January 2021. So now this is a year after I released the original pictures and everybody was very excited. There was a picture of me sitting across from Emily at Christmas

and I have like a gingerbread house next to me and I'm just sitting there and I'm not even... For some reason, people didn't like the way my jawline looked or something. People think I've gotten like work done. I have not ever gotten any work done. I got Botox in my jaw once because I grind my teeth at night.

And they were like, do you want us to do your forehead? And I was like, sure, go have that. I'll never do it again. Hey, everyone relax. One time is nothing. Yeah. And it was a long time ago. And I hated it.

I hated how I looked and how I felt. Yeah. So Emily and I, this is like the deep COVID. I'm full of fear because my wife is in a high risk group. we get super high and we're watching The Crow, which is one of my favorite movies, you know, as a kid. Great movie. Watching it again.

Yeah, he was so cool. And a friend of mine texts me, he's like, hey, I'm sorry about what's happening online. And I was like, I'm super high. I look, and it's literally thousands of people on Twitter making fun of my face, of how I look. So being high in that state and watching that school was like really genuinely very, very difficult. And it continued for a while. It continued for a couple of days. And I think that in the soup at that time was, you know, a year of staying inside,

people being like 2020 sucks, 2020 sucks. And suddenly now it's 2021. Things haven't changed. We don't have a vaccine. People are still stuck. So I think people were just firing shit around. That was really, really horrible. And again, you know, people have bigger problems.

I want to people. No, they don't. This is the biggest thing. I mean, it was genuinely really, really awful. So that was very, very tough and really like working through it with my therapist a lot. And it's still something that kind of comes up. You know, if you look at, if you look at comments on whenever I post anything, if you look at comments, someone will talk about like that I fucked up my face or something. Which obviously I haven't ever gotten any work done.

This is just how I look when I'm like a little skinnier. Yeah, really, really, really hard. Really, really horrible. Were you when, like that first when you guys are when you're high and. your friend texted you, did you see it and then put the phone away? No. Did you really dive in? I dove in.

Yeah, that's tough. I dove in. I swam in it. And then eventually, Emily was like, do not be on your phone. And I was like, okay, just tell me if it's still happening. And the next day I woke up, I was like, is it still happening? She's like, yeah, it's still happening. All day I kept checking in, is it still happening?

It's still happening. It was like the number one trending thing. It was like a thing for it. And then the next day I woke up and I was like, is it still happening? She's like, yeah, it's still happening. So it was like two days. and then they moved on to the next target. There was right around that time.

There was a dad. I don't know if you remember this. Who was like shitty to his kid about beans or something. Do you remember what I'm talking about? Very vaguely. It was like Bean Dad. Bean Dad. Yeah.

I owe a debt of gratitude to fucking Bean Dad. Because he moved the conversation on. Everyone then was like, oh, Bean Dad now. And so Bean Dad got it and they moved off of me. The hordes moved off of me. Yeah. went after Bean Dad, with fucking zombies.

They left my appearance alone and moved on to the behaviors of Bean Dad. Yes. Thank God. Thank God. I genuinely want to send him a check for like $300 and be like, thank you so much, man.

You should. He's probably needed it. Yeah, and I don't remember. You remember? Yeah, there it is. So he tweeted, yes. So yesterday my daughter, nine was hungry and I was doing a jigsaw puzzle.

So I sat over my shoulder, make some baked beans. She said, how? Like all kids do when they want you to do it. So I said, open a can and put it in pot. She brought me the can and said, open it how.

And then there was more from that. What I love is he had to get it in the night number of character. So open a can and put it in pot instead of in a pot. Didn't have the right number of letters for it. I love that. He inadvertently talked the way I talk.

Put it in pot. Put it in pot. Yeah. So at this point, she said, I don't want baked beans and marched off. Apocalypse Dad went into full. the road mode. Sweetheart, neither of us will eat another bite today until we get

into this can of beans. She screamed like Lucy Van Pelt. She read a book for a while. Whatever he goes on. Who fucking cares? Ultimately you read this and you go, who cares? This is January 2nd. So this is like who Bean Dad like Bean Dad like, Bean Dad come. He was my

meat shield. Green Dad. Green Dad was like, you know what? I got you buddy. He jumped in front of the bullets. Wouldn't it be awesome if we found out that he's like a huge Kumil fan and he literally literally did this on purpose. Oh my God. How great would that be?

I've had it. I've had it with the Camelie. My daughter's a dumb bitch. I think he looks fine. I thought I looked fine in that picture. I posted it because I was like, I look pretty good. Look how sharp my jaw line looks.

That's why I posted that one. Yeah. I auditioned a bunch of pictures. I wasn't like, you know, not a monster. I looked at all the pictures. I thought this one looks nice. This one would be good.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing about the internet that's so difficult is that you, whenever you post the thing that's going to get you in trouble, You didn't think anything. You're like, oh, this is, yeah, that's a thing I said or how I look. Yeah, and still now, there's some, I don't watch SpongeBob.

I was too old for it, but there's like one character who got, like, at some point, must have gotten some work done or something. And he doesn't look like, is it, squid. You're referring to handsome squid words. Handsome Squidward. Yes. You'll see Handsome Squidward whenever I post anything. You'll see a couple of handsome squid words in the comments.

Well, you know what? That's a guy whose name starts with handsome. Yeah. So that's actually pretty nice. I think they're using it ironically. I don't care. I think it's fucking sarcastic. You're my friend and I'm going to start calling you handsome Kumal.

I think I'm taking it back. There. I got like, oh God, I got like, I shrank from that. Because that picture, I see anytime I post anything,

that fucking picture. There's another one of a handsome, Scoodywood, like, Squidward like dancing or something. I see those two all the fucking goddamn time. I haven't seen. that one actually.

Yeah. I look at him and be like, hey, that's a good looking squid word. He's a good looking squid word. My thing that I get annoyed by but not mad at is that anytime someone sees any fat person doing anything on the internet

and God help me if they have glasses, any fat person, they're like, the comments would be tagging me and be like, who let Caleb Heron out? Or something, I'm like, this is just a fat person. Leave me alone.

Leave me alone. They don't have to be gay or white. They don't have to be, if they are gay white and have glasses, we're both having a day. Like, any fat person doing anything, they're like, not the Caleb Heron drag. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's just, the faces are totally different?

It is one fat person dancing. I hate it. I hate it. I'm like, you don't have to tag me in every fat person. There's actually a lot of fat people. It's kind of like a problem. There's so, there's so many fat people. It's like, you don't need to tag me in every one of them.

I hate it. Handsome Squidward. Okay. Yeah. So that, to me, that's like the, face of my oppressor is handsome squidward. Fuck handsome squid word.

What did happen in that episode? I've never even looked it up. I haven't even been able to Google that. Why does he look like that? He gets a role in a movie and he gets really buff. Yeah. Could you imagine? It's so specific. Is that? Oh, no. No, no, no, no. God. No. No, I don't know what happens to him, but, you know,

the important thing is when you're getting bullied, you're getting bullied with a guy whose name starts with handsome and that's what I would cling on to. Okay. That's how I would handle it. I really, I've gotten way better at it. Just because you, you know, now it's been four years, over four years of it, you sort of go all right, this is what it is. It becomes normalized, you know, but I still get it all the time. Yeah. Like yesterday, I was on Colbert

and I had a clip that was sort of going around and it was all really nice. A lot of nice things. The only comment I remember is, he always looks tired. It would be one other thing Yeah, it's so, it's so mean That's also mean because I am tired Always, yeah, man, you do a fucking press gauntlet You do Colbert's the sixth thing that day

I did fucking GMA that morning at 6 a.m. And now I'm doing Colbert at night. That's a long day. I am tired. How would you hold up? Yeah, you, Colbert wouldn't even fucking book you. Yeah. You're like, I'm doing better with it.

Colbert wouldn't. Fuck you. Colbert wouldn't spit on you. I need some water. I went to see my friend play Colbert once, and I had to sit in the audience, which being, I don't know if you,

if anyone listening has ever been an audience member at a late night show, they treat you like cattle. I don't mean to say this, but this is probably bad, but I can't imagine Guantanamo is much better than that. It can't be. I mean, it was horrific, my experience.

They heard you in like, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom. No. They're mean to you. You're not allowed to be on your phone at all. Like, even when there's a break, I pulled my phone out at one point. I mean, they know that I'm there to see the artist. And I pull out my phone, I'm not taking a picture. I'm not 12.

I'm not checking like my text. I'm special. I'm not like all these other people who came in from Idaho. 100%. Yeah, 100% feel that way. I'm good. I'm like, I can check my text in here. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, you don't understand.

The rules do not actually do not apply to me. In this scenario, I do feel that way. I completely agree. I totally agree. Like, if I go to a move. movie premiere, I should be able to pull out my phone. I'm not going to fucking post a clip from Avatar on Instagram.

No, because the rule is stupid for everybody, but I understand the general public will do things they shouldn't. They'll take videos, they'll post pictures. Here's the other thing that I do not do, but other people get in trouble for it. Other people get in trouble for it. We're like, I still see, and it is a bad look, but I understand we're like, you know, at Delta, my flight got canceled and you fucking did this, fuck, you know, all that.

celebrities do it and people get upset at them and I'm like they just have the privilege of a major corporation treating you the way everyone should be treated like everybody should be treated

well by these massive corporations they just have the privilege of being able to use their leverage to be able to get that kind of response that kind of customer service from a major corporation and that's what you're upset about do you know though that this is my number one rule for myself

I don't do it I won't do it I've never I will not do it. Never done it. It's my chance has seen me at my lowest when we're on tour or something and some airline has completely fucked us. Bad look. Or some hotel has completely fucked us. We booked the rooms. We double confirmed.

Now they don't have our room. It's a bad look. All of it, I will never ever. I've typed out the Instagram story before, deleted it and shut my phone on. That is my only rule for myself. It's so, it's such a bad look. I just mean I understand why they are. Because you've had the foresight, you know, because when you're in that situation, it fucking sucks.

It's horrible. It's horrible. And you're like, you have the reaction that anyone would have, which is, I paid for a service. You can't do this. Like you can't, but they can. They do. And I have a recourse that if I posted, they would get in shape quickly. But I don't do it.

Because I'm like, that's the one thing you can't do. You can't be the guy that's like, at Delta, guess I'll have to take my business else. It's like, stop, stop, stop. Genuinely, Delta does not care. No. Well, none of them do. We used to have customer service in this country, Camel. We used to have a country with customer service.

We used to. I do want to. Say, Delta is pretty good. I'm happy with Delta. I like Delta. I have the least problems with them, and that's the best I can say about any company at this point. I will pick Delta 100% of the time if left to my own devices. Yeah.

Well, I also don't have a choice. Delta could wrong me a million times because they're the only airport that has a lounge in Kansas City, which is like one of my biggest airports that I fly to. Oh. So I have to be a Delta boy. Yeah. I'm not, I don't have a choice. I think Delta's pretty solid.

It is. But overall, all these companies, they'll do whatever they want to you. I've had multiple airlines just like, they undersell a flight, so they cancel it and put me on one three hours later. And I'm like, hey, that sounds like a you problem. Run that fucking flight. That's not on me.

I've gone to a movie theater where I was the only guy who bought a ticket for this movie. And they're like, do you really want to watch it? And I'm like, actually, I do really want to watch it. I want to be alone in a movie theater watching this movie. That is one of the most glamorous things. I've had that happen a couple times where I'm the one guy in the theater. How exciting. It's incredible.

It feels like the apocalypse and you're just there watching whatever, yeah. It feels like day after tomorrow where you're like, this is how I would live if everyone else went. Yeah, if everybody else went, I would go to movie theaters and watch all the movies I want to see in theaters.

Yeah, for like five days and I'd kill myself. How long would I go? I'm not trying to survive. 100% not trying to survive. No. Like I think what I would do is, yeah, eat as much as I possibly could. Yeah.

I probably tracked on some of the people who are posting the handsome Squidward memes and probably laugh at their dead bodies because they're dead, right? Of course, they're dead, yeah. Watch as many movies as I could, and then four or five days later, be like, pretty good run. Time to check out. Time to check out. I wouldn't hang around.

If I'm in my house alone for more than seven hours, I start having a level of conversation with myself that you wouldn't believe. Out loud. When Emily's out of town, I am talking to my cat as if, like, she's a human being. Well, should we get breakfast? I think so. Yeah, it's truly like, it's psycho shit. Yeah.

I have to, I don't know if you have to do this, but this morning I was laughing at myself because I had to do it this morning. I have to talk to myself out loud in a crazy way to get anything done. What do you mean? You have to get like, Caleb, go do this? No, I have to get stern. Like this morning, I was laying in bed. My alarm had gone off.

I had stused it twice. And so you're setting an alarm. Well, today you set an alarm for this, I assume. Yes. Okay. Well, I said an alarm most days. What do you set it for? What time?

My alarm, it depends on what I have for the day. If I have a super late night, I'll set it for like 9.30. Oh, really? So you're up by 9.30 even if it's a late night. These days, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, a couple of years ago, I was sleeping until, if I had a day off, I'm sleeping until 11, 12. I don't do that anymore. I can't really do it anymore. Yeah, I can't adjust my sleep time. What were you saying? You were laying in bed today. I have to talk to myself crazy out loud to get anything done. I was laying in bed and I was like,

I literally had to say out loud, Caleb, it's enough, man. Get in the shower. Like, I have to talk to myself that way. I'd be like, you want to get a shower before the breakfast gets here or else you'll be rushing to Camille. Get up. This is ridiculous. Let's go. Wait, the breakfast thing happened today? This morning. Oh my God. What a day you're having. I brought that energy to you. Great breakfast and you get to talk to me. I mean, that's a good day. It's a good day. We were supposed to have an 8 a.m. record today with Mateo Lane. And I just, what? Yeah. Insane. And he was down for it. And I had I had talked to Virginia who does the scheduling and I was like, hey, maybe we find if there's any time

on this day, he wasn't available. I eventually, like two days ago, texted Mateo personally because you know, we go through the teams to be nice. But I was like, I was like, Mateo, what else do you have, brother? Yeah. I cannot do this. And I'm up at 6.30.

8 a.m. is absurd. It's crazy because we have you. And then we have another episode after you today. So it was going to be three episodes starting at 8 a.m. Too much. I was like, I'm not a coal miner. This is not. No, no, no.

I can't work like this. So we rescheduled it. Thank God. Yeah. So I got to have my breakfast. But I do have to talk to myself crazy. I mean, the number of like speeches like that

that I have to give myself is really astronomical. Well, I think at least you understand what you have to do, you know. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Say it now. How's your self-talk?

Self-talk, mostly positive. Mostly positive. Only in moments of, like, truly needing to get stuff done. Do I have to go a little negative and go like, this is crazy, get it together. But most of the time, my self-talk is,

I've actually started practicing in the last year or so. like talking very gently to myself out loud, which is very gay and therapy type, like, what does that sound like? Like, it's very like, I'll be like, I'll be upset with myself because I haven't done something I was supposed to do or that I'm upset with myself that I haven't,

I'll realize like, oh, I haven't talked to that friend in a while and they just reached out to me again. They're being the first one to reach out again. I meant to fix that. And I'll start to get upset with myself. And then out loud, I'll go like, it's okay, buddy, you're not in trouble. You're doing a good job.

Oh, that's great. I'll talk to myself the way that you'd want to. It's something I either read or saw online or something about, like, talking to yourself the way that you would have wanted to be talked to when you were a kid. Oh. And my mom talked to me like that, and my dad did not. So I have actually a good model of what it should look like from my mom. But, yeah, doing that kind of stuff, it actually, like, really weirdly, it will make me very emotional sometimes. Or you talk to yourself and then you got a little...

I'll, like, be gentle with myself, and then I'll be like, oh, my God. I'm like, wait, that low-key felt amazing. That is incredible. You don't ever do anything like that? So you don't have, you've never had a negative self-talk issue, really. Oh, I totally have. No, I'm doing much better. You're doing much better, okay.

Yeah, I'm in a decent place with it these days. But I totally, oh my God, I, my teens in early 20s, I was so mean to myself. Yeah. I really did not like myself at all. That's the thing. I've had the same thing. I still have to work on it. I think you're further along than I am because you don't even realize.

the tone with which you're talking yourself. You know, I didn't even realize it was negative until, you know, therapy, they were like, so how do you say this? Like, you know, you're on set. You didn't do a good job. What do you say to yourself? And I'm like, oh, heinous shit. Oh, yeah. You don't even realize. It's that fucking Leonardo DiCaprio scene in Hollywood. What the fuck is that?

Yeah, once upon a time. Once upon a time. When he's in the trailer, he's like, you fucking know good. It's that. It's that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I try and be careful with that. But it is hard. It's just my default has always been that. Like, since I can remember that's been my default, you know. And I think it does come from, like, for me, it was not liking myself.

And now I do actually like myself. It's probably been, it's a recent thing last few years where I didn't even realize I didn't like myself. And now I do like myself. And I liked myself when I was 14 years old. Like, just thinking of how I felt about myself when I was 14 and being able to articulate it now, like kind of breaks my heart. for that like 14 year old, you know. A lot of it comes from like,

I think being raised in a very like conservative situation. There's a lot that you can do wrong or a lot that you can think wrong. So growing up thinking, or there's something wrong with me because, you know, I find women attractive or whatever it is. Yeah, well, that's partially true, yeah. That's a moral failing, but yeah.

It is a moral failing. I mean, when I was like 12, 13, 14, if I could like take that part of myself out, I would have. Opposite, but rock on. It's really cool to know we were going through similar stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because, you know, where I was raised, like even just thinking of a woman in a lustful way is a sin.

And so you're real, you're like, oh, if I'm even thinking, and it's impossible to not. Like, you know, the force that has led to the survival of the species is like, working its way through me and I'm just like a 12 year old so I think that's where that came from me being like oh I'm attracted to women there's something wrong with me and then it just becomes there's something wrong

with me there's something wrong with me and only recently realizing that's probably the genesis of my like negative self-talk that's really interesting it's also like you know at a certain point I was like and nobody will ever have sex with me like I had times in like

my teens where I was like nobody's ever going to have sex with me ever because I also had the thing about how I looked and stuff. So all that, you know, it's too much. Puberty comes too early. It should come in your like 20s. Yeah, when you've had some like, yeah, you've had your feet on the ground.

You've had a job, you know, like that kind of stuff. You want like, you want a 9 to 5 before puberty hits you. Yeah. That's my big. I mean, it's a fucked up system. What's so true to you, Camille? Okay. This is where I'm going to make enemies.

Okay. I don't think. you should be allowed to taste ice cream at ice cream parlors. Oh, my God. I think no other situation. Like, you're at a restaurant. You're like, can I just like have two of the fries and see what they're like? Oh, can I have a bite of the pizza before I decide?

Why is it that it's okay in an ice cream parlor, just stand there? Then I got to stand there starting at a bucket with all the spoons that the entire neighborhood's been sucking on. I don't want that image in my head. You just see like little your saliva at the bottom of that bucket that everybody's taking the tiny metal spoons and sucking on it and putting it in there. This came to me recently because there's a long line about one of those cool ice cream places that's like Indonesian ice cream

or something where it's not even technically ice cream. And there's a woman on the phone and there's a guy in the front of the line and he's like bringing a spoon to her, she's tasting. She's like, no, let me have another one. And he's getting another spoon, tasting another one. I'm done with it. Make your decision. You know what strawberry tastes like.

Yeah. I'm going to say I'm shocked to hear this. I hadn't considered it, but I guess I do have a rule in my own body already. You get one. You get to try an experimental flavor, and if you're not into it, go to Old Faithful. I think that's right,

and I would say even, you know, I'm willing to relax it. It should never be more than three. And I think... My God, you're being so generous. But until you're 10 years old, until you're the age of 10, you get three.

after 10 you know I might agree to one but after the age of 10 like make your decision I think it's one and I think it's that's what it is as you go if there's a very experimental flavor on the thing that you've never seen right right right you can say let me try that

yeah yeah and then if you don't like it you order something you know you'll like you don't get to ask to try chocolate you don't get to ask to try strawberry I think you know what how about this you can only try the experimental flavors and there is a cap on the numbers you can't try

strawberry. You could try like, you know, popcorn, ginger or whatever. Which would probably be pretty good, by the way. It does sound pretty good. Actually, hold on. I was opening. I did try to go to ice cream college. All right, no follow-ups. No follow-ups. What the fuck are you talking about? There's a couple of ice cream colleges around the country.

When you say ice cream college, I've never heard those two words together. They teach you how to make your own flavors. They teach you the business logistics side and how to run your own coffee shop. How much foot traffic should the store have? They teach you how to become an ice cream connoisseur. And I

A maven, yeah. And I wanted to do it, but I haven't found the time. I would like to do it still. There's a couple. There's one in St. Louis, I think. There's one in California. There's an ice cream college in California? There's ice cream college. And you should go. We should go together. Well, how long is a degree? Can we, how long does it take together? Couple days.

A couple days. It's really a couple days. No, come on. That's an online. That's a course. Please, please. I know, but they call it ice cream college to be fun, but I think we could learn a lot. I would totally go to ice cream college with you. Let's mix some flavors. I would. Make some flavor.

There it is. Ready to turn your ice cream dreams into reality. If you can dream it, if you dream it, we can make it. They've got seminars. Ice cream university. Oh my God.

How to produce a soft serve frozen dessert. Beginner ice cream batch freezer hands. Right? That hands on. The on should be bolded too because it looks weird.

Just like, freezer hands. I don't know what that is. From concept to market, let's make your idea real. For over three decades, Malcolm Stogo, the godfather of ice cream.

An inventor of cookie the cream ice cream. Why? Work with them. That's why. God's walk amongst us. That's why. From our test kitchen

in West Orange, New Jersey. If I had to guess where this guy Malcolm Stogo was from, it would have been that. West Orange. He's worked with Hagenda, Sloan's Carvo, Stonyfield Farm, I don't know what that is. Base flavor development is $2,500 for one day.

That's pretty expensive. Each additional flavor is $1,800. Yeah, $5,000 if you want to do five flavors and up to 10 test batches per flavor, I would pay that. I mean, we were saying, you know, let's do it. Let's go. Can we go up a little bit? I want to see, it says shop or like you can buy like a whole, uh, whole, uh, shop. I want to see what they're selling.

Oh my God. Ice cream University books. We should probably start there. Let's go to, I don't know, nut paste is kind of calling to me too. Let's see what nut paste is about. John Doha, pistachio, hazelnut. Pretty basic. Pretty basic. Let's go to the books thing that you. Let's see what these books are. Pistachio was $165.

It's, yeah, Ice Cream University Books. Incredible ice cream, the ultimate ice cream mastery collection. The official manual, dairy-free ice cream and dessert seminar, $600, $625. So they are doing, of course, highway robbery. That's an expensive book. Go scroll down a little.

Ice cream galore is, is priced to move. It was 50 and now it's 30. At that price, you can't afford to not get ice cream galore, cakes, novelties and more.

I don't like holiday sale homemade junkies. What is a homemade junkie? Having fun, making great ice cream at home and it's on sale for 1350. That, I mean. Chance, we order that for me.

Order that for me. me to the studio. I'd like to see what that's all about. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I know we're running out of time. This is the rest of my life. Can we go up again? What else, under wholesale ice cream, what flavors are they selling?

Malcolm's ice cream simply now. Oh, he's been on TV. There he is. Malcolm on a rise 360 with the biggest shows on TV. Why is that not in my press schedule? You need to get on Arise 360. Salted caramel, pecan, ricotta fig,

Yeah, I mean, red velvet, these are all sounding... These are all good. Plant-based. Pomeranid. I've never had pomegranate ice cream. Asian ice cream flavor line. All right, let's see. Let's see if that's...

Okay, Ube. Ube is having a big moment right now. Green tea. Liquor-infused, of course. Do you know what pand-d-an? I've heard it and I don't know what it is. It's a flavor that's used in some Southeast Asian countries. It's a plant.

It's a very bright, specific green. And they use it for desserts. pondon cake, pundon ice cream. It's sort of like almondy, vanilla, but its own thing. You got to get into it. I might have to get into it. You get pondon. If you see it, like, you know, I bet Chinatown has it.

Like bright green, you see like a bright green slice of like chiffon cake or something. Yeah. You got to try it. It's like my favorite. It's like my favorite flavor. I will. Yeah. Camille, I have a segment for you.

Yes, sir. This is a game that we play. True or false segment. Yes. Okay. I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars.

Oh, my God. I know. I know. I'm like one 17th of the way to Ice Cream University. Come on. Are you ready? Okay, the Lakers have won more NBA championships than any other team. True. False, the Celtics. Butterflies taste with their wings. True? False, their feet.

The Grinch, 2018, is the highest grossing Christmas movie of all time. False. True. Oh, my God. The Pacific Ocean is the largest ocean on Earth. Oh, God. This one. True.

True. Grinnell College's motto is truth and service. False. It's truth in humanity. I did go there. I know you did. The liver is the second heaviest organ in the human body. Is skin an organ? Yeah. And heart is an organ. So I'll say false. It's true. Napoleon.

You're telling me that the liver weighs more than all of my skin? Second heaviest. Skin is number one. Skin is number one. The liver's number two. Well, what was heart? We didn't get that far. I'm not sure, sir. Napoleon lost the Battle of Waterloo. Yes.

True. Hawaii has the most active volcanoes of all U.S. states. Yes. False, Alaska. Jingle Bells was originally a Thanksgiving song. Oh, true. True. The Lions Den open mic in Chicago was on Tuesday nights.

False. Monday nights, baby. Tea is the most popular beverage on the planet. True. False. It's water. Sorry. Oh!

No! I'm sorry. I didn't write it. That is a bunch of bullshit. Oh my God. What's the most popular food? Wrong. It's air.

Kwanza is observed for seven days. You gotta take this out. Not a good look, bleep this. False. True. Sloths take two weeks to digest food. True. True. St. Michael's convent school was opened in 1970. True.

1986. False. Both male and female reindeer grow antlers. False. True. Wow. I did very poorly. Six.

Six out of... Why is that so funny? No, that's beautiful. Six out of how many? Fifteen, yes. Six out of 15? Do it again. I bet I get them all right now.

Honestly, I'm tempted to if we weren't kind of out of time. But what I do want to say to you is you were a winner in the way that you answered quickly. Because a lot of our guests cannot get that done. I thought that was part of the thing. It is. But Camilla, that's what I'm saying. A lot of our guests, they don't follow the rules. Said Michael's Convin's school is what I went to school.

Really? Yeah. I'm sorry that you got that one wrong. Yeah. Where did you go to school? Chilkothy High School. What year was it founded? 1931.

That's not true. You're right. Just because you answer quickly. But you answer quickly. That's the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Camille, your special is out now. Do you want to tell people where they can find it, where they can find you?

It's on Hulu. It's called Night Thoughts. It's also on Disney Plus, on Hulu and on Disney Plus and the rest of the world. Go watch it. And you can watch it with the whole family. It's Christmas Day. Yeah. And you can watch it with the whole family.

I swear a little bit, but it's very clean. Yeah. And it's really a good watch for the whole family. Don't go see Avatar. Don't. Avatar is doing fine. Forget Avatar. We need you on the night special.

Yeah. What is it night? Thoughts. Night thoughts? I said it five times, Caleb. We need you on the night special. I have recently. I know what it's called.

I've seen the trailer. Yeah, my special is called night special. Yeah, night special. Night special. Night special. I'm so happy for you, dude. Thanks for coming on. Oh, thanks for having.

me, that was so fun.