So True with Caleb Hearon - Lizzy McAlpine is The Pope

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Welcome! This week’s guest is the talented Lizzy McAlpine! Lizzy and Caleb talk Lizzy’s Broadway debut in Floyd Collins, writing bad songs as a teen, the rigors of touring, her songwriting process, dads, and much more! Join our Patreon for an exclusive post-episode chat with Lizzy and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow Lizzy! @lizzymcalpine Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloudBook now at Booking.com !Transform your living space today with Cozey. Visit Cozey.com, the home of possibilities, made easy. There’s no replacement for human connection. Better with people. Better with Alma. Visit helloalma.com/SOTRUE to get started and schedule a free consultation today. Head to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE.About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgumSo True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. I really relate to the Red Rocks moment because I have, in my last hour, I have a huge section about my dead dad. Dads are addicted to dying. They'll just do it. Literally. They're just like dropping dead out of nowhere. They're like, bye.

They're like, see y'all. See you later. Like, what is going on with dads? They're just dying left and right. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Lizzie, I'm so excited you're here. Hey, me too! Dude, I have to tell you, I almost told you this before, but then I was like, save it for the episode, Caleb.

I, well first of all, I love your music. Thanks. I'm such a huge fan. Oh, thanks. But I got to have one of the, I, haha, I don't know if you'll relate to this or not. Okay. But I feel like your music is so good for, it was raining so hard when I was coming over here,

and I was fucking staring out the window listening to your, like, this is Lizzie McAlpine, you know, tracks, and I was like, this is what this music is about. I think so, yeah. It's about a rainy, longing, I was locked in. Great, love that for you. I love, love, love, love, love, love your music. I'm so

glad you're here. Yeah, me too. How's it going? Oh, it's good. You know, just locked in to Broadway. You're locked in on Broadway. You're doing a show on Broadway right now. And how's it going? It's going great. I'm having kind of the best time ever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you tweeted like years ago, you were like doing the urge to do a live theater show is so strong that I'm doing like Broadway karaoke alone in my house. And do you do you feel like you manifested this? 100% also I did tweet a long time ago about working with Jeremy Jordan. Yeah. Now he's in the show with me which is crazy. So I feel

like I've kind of mastered the art. Yeah. Of manifestation. Of manifesting in public on Twitter, specifically. Yes, exactly. I love that so much. So the show, how long has it been running? Where are we at in it? We opened like two weeks ago, but we started previews performances at like the end of March. So it's been like kind of a little bit now

and we close at the end of June. Is this your first, is this your first like Broadway show? Yes. Okay, what does that feel to you? Were you nervous starting it? Do you feel better now? It was kind of terrifying at first. I'm a theater kid.

I did theater in high school. That's like my only basis for anything theater related. And so doing this was scary, but honestly I've been learning so much and it's kind of like one of the greatest experiences of my life so far. It really feels like I was meant to be doing this. It's really cool.

So I'm having a good time now, but it's still kind of scary sometimes because I don't really know what I'm doing. I kind of just like pretend, but that's acting I guess. That's the job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well also when it's a musical, feel like it's I don't as a singer I just feel like it would be like okay well you at least definitely know that. Totally. It's like you fucking kill that part. No worries. Yes exactly. Yeah that's so exciting dude. Is there is there like a dream like what are your Broadway, you're a theater kid, I was not.

So when I talk to theater kids I'm like I learn a lot. What were your influences, your big favorite Broadway shows, the things that made you love theater? Oh my gosh. Well, my mom listened to Wicked in the car all the time. So Wicked was a touchstone for me. And then I just loved Disney movies, Beauty and the Beast. That was the first Broadway show I ever saw. And just all that stuff.

I don't know. My grandparents would take us to see a Broadway show every year for my sibling's birthday. And every time it was just like watching those people on stage was so, I was like, I wanna do that. Like they're giving an experience to the audience that is so unique and special. And I was like, I wanna be a part of that.

And now I am. And now you are. And now you are. And now you freaking are. So what you end it ends in June. Yeah. End of June. And then is it end of June? Like the 22nd.

The 22nd. That's the end of June, baby. We're getting out of there. I don't know what time is. We're getting out of there at the end of June. What are you doing after? Do you have any, are you doing like tour this year, live dates for you?

After this is over, I'm kind of like writing right now so after this is over I'm gonna figure out what the next project is gonna be and I don't love to tour so if I do tour this next album which I probably will but it's it'll probably be less dates less cities like like maybe like five in a five shows in a row in one city, you know, that type of vibe. And I want to do like, because I was playing like amphitheaters and stuff, and the next logical step for any artist would be like sizing up. But I think I want to go just like medium sized theaters where like people can sit. Yeah. And there's there's no pit. Yeah. And we can just like have a good time. Like that that feels like the vibe for my next tour if it if it

happens. Yeah. Because you haven't even worked you don't even know what the project is. I know I kind of know the vibes and I know the the direction that my music is going in and I'm kind of refining my sound a little bit more and it just feels like it would not translate in a bigger like in a stadium or something like that just is not that's not really the vibe for my music yeah I as a fan of the music I would want to see you in the first thing you describe I want to see you in the theater where we can sit right setters I mean I would see you wherever but like I do I totally

know what you mean yeah cuz I wanted to feel like intimate yeah I feel like I felt like when I was playing the amphitheater, some of them were really, really cool. Obviously, the Greek was insane, and red rocks, and all that stuff. But any bigger than that, and it feels kind of like you're losing the intimacy. And I feel like my music is just so specific,

and it doesn't really work in a huge setting because I feel like those are meant for like you know if you want to come and you want to dance and all that stuff and that's not really my music you know so I mean obviously music but it's gonna be definitely like a slow sway right yeah it's gonna be some tears involved your music your music is damaging to me I listen to music I go actually I'm thinking of things I haven't thought of actually in years, in a beautiful way. I think actually, if I had known you were writing ceilings

when you were writing it, I might have come over and said, don't put that out. Don't do that. Don't put that out, but I love it, but hey, I've got a life to live. I would say, hey, what are you actually thinking? Why would you do that to me, specifically? Sorry about that.

I wonder, okay, if this is an annoying question, you can totally tell me this is so casual, we can cut anything. But I do wonder, I don't know if you get asked this all the time, but your songs going mega viral, specifically on TikTok, we have a version of that where nowhere near what it's like for you. I mean, it's so different with a song.

But I have very complicated feelings about the Internet and things going off and people talking about me and sharing my stuff. Of course, there's a version of me or a part of me that wants it or appreciates it, and it is the point of the work. But yeah, what do you feel about, obviously right now, bridge over water, it's everywhere. How do you feel about it? I mean, I'm kind of obsessed.

I it's different. It's interesting because when I feel like I've had like three moments on TikTok, the first one was in 2020 when I posted that like you ruined the nineteen seventy five song. And it I still get comments on that video and that one was interesting because I never meant for that song to go anywhere and I never really even finished writing it because I was like this is just for fun and I'm not this is not what I want my sound to be this is just like for fun and I still get people asking like release it and I'm like no actually maybe no I'm not gonna do that actually no and I also think that was at a time where I was not really

confident in who I wanted to be as an artist yet I didn't really know anything because I was just at the beginning of my career and then the second time was Ceilings obviously and that was insane and I feel like that moment really allowed me to like make my last album older because it kind of gave me opportunities that I wouldn't have had without it. And so for that, I am grateful for that moment, but then it's also like, you know, that's the song that everyone wants to hear.

And you know, all artists who have one big hit experience this, but it's nothing revolutionary. But on my last tour, I was playing Ceilings kind of in the middle of the set and at Red Rocks, specifically, I've talked about this before, but we played Ceilings and then the song after that, I was playing a song about my dead father. And I was just watching people get up and walk out because they heard the song they wanted to hear and then they left. So that was tough. So that's the

part of it that is like not great feeling. But you know, I try to hold both feelings at the same time. And obviously I'm grateful for all of it. And then now with Spring into Summer I'm like this, I love this song. Like I love a great fucking song like I feel like this last album older was really really an important moment for me in my career and just not even in my career just in my in the way that I think about who I want to be as an artist and it's the closest that I've gotten to what I feel like my true sound is and The direction that I want to

go and so to have that song have a moment right now is like really validating because also I feel like when I released the album a year ago I people were like we wanted five seconds flat 2.0 and I was like well sorry well that's not happening sorry and it was tough because because I was like, well, sorry. Well, that's not happening. Sorry. And it was tough, because I was like, this is the music that feels so authentic to me, and people are like, we didn't want this. And I was like, oh, okay, but I want it. Doesn't that mean anything? So to have this song go viral now is really, really cool,

and I love it. Did you imagine, I mean, I think there are times when I'm writing a joke or something that I'm like, oh, people will latch onto this, or I think, oh, people will do something with that. And it's not why I'm doing it, but I just have an acknowledgement of it. That I'm like, oh, that's right for people doing whatever.

I mean, specifically the line that's so viral right now is bridge over water, I'm jumping off, and they do the, you know. Did you imagine that when you're making that song? That you're like, oh, this is gonna, I never think about that stuff. The same thing happened with Ceilings. I put the album out and then a year later, literally a whole year later, the song goes viral and Ceilings was not a single. It wasn't like we didn't promote it. And then it just like a year later popped off on TikTok and the same thing's happening with spring and December basically. Um, and I never think about that stuff when I write it. I,

I just write the music and I don't really, I, I don't want to say I don't care about having a viral moment on TikTok, but it's never like the priority. You're not going into the studio being like, let's cook up a sound. No, no, no, no, never. Let's cook up a TikTok challenge. No, no, no. But it's always cool if it happens, obviously. Yeah. The thing you were saying about playing the hits

reminds me of this moment. I went maybe like a year or two ago. I was in LA at the time, and I saw Jeff Tweedy was playing at Largo. And I love Largo. And anytime someone I like is usually comedians, but sometimes musicians like Jeff, I'm like, oh, I'll try to pop over. And I went over, and I love Largo and anytime someone I like is doing, usually comedians but sometimes musicians like Jeff, I'm like, oh, I'll try to pop over.

And I went over and I was watching and I just love Jeff Tweedy so much and I think he's actually so funny. I'm like comedy kind of lost out on not having Jeff be a comedian. Good for music but I'm like, we kind of missed out on one there. But he did this thing where he was like

interacting with the audience and he was like taking song requests. He was like such a huge body of work and everyone was shouting out a different song and he made this joke where he was like, this the audience and he was like taking song requests. He was like such a huge body of work. And everyone was shouting out a different song and he made this joke where he was like, this is the fucking problem. Everyone of you people has a different favorite song and I've never had a hit.

And I thought that was so goddamn funny. Cause it's like it grasses all, he wasn't genuinely bemoaning it. He was just being silly. But like the other side of that is if there was just one hit and they were all yelling the same song, it would be a totally different thing. Right. You know, and I really relate to the red rocks moment because I have in my last hour,

I have a huge section about my dead dad. Um, that's her addicted to dying and they'll just do it. Um, they're just like dropping dead out of nowhere. They're like, bye. They're like, see y'all later. See you later. Like what is going on with dad? They're just dying bye. They're like, see y'all. See you later. See you later. Like, what is going on with dads? They're just dying left and right. I don't know. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha. Like, stick around, brother. Like, what the fuck? Oh my god. But yeah, I have material about my dead dad that gets a little like, there's a, I'm building to a joke, but it gets a little earnest for a second,

in service of the joke, by the way. And I, watching people check their phone a couple times during that I'm like that's even different than a song because I'm like there's no guesswork I'm out loud saying that this is about my dead dad you know what I mean I'm like can we just can it wait right but yeah there's a there's a live show etiquette thing about that that can be really tricky when you're doing personal stuff yeah especially because I felt like ceilings and five seconds flat in general. Like I love that album. Don't get me wrong But it just didn't it felt like an experiment

it was always like an experiment because I made my first album and it was closer to older what older sounds like and my my I think what I want my music to sound like and Then I was I became very scared of like oh, I don't want to be pigeonholed into one genre because I have, I like to experiment. I like to do like many, many things and I want to try something new. So I like hard pivoted and made Five Seconds Flat. And it isn't like totally that different

from the rest of my music, but it's more like pop sounding, and it was very fun to make, and I had a great time, and I loved the music when it came out. Obviously I wouldn't have put it out if I didn't like it, but now that I'm looking back on it, I'm like, okay, yeah, that stuff is maybe not representative of who I am as an artist now,

and also I'm always changing and growing and learning, so it makes sense that I don't resonate with that anymore But to have that song ceilings Blow up and then like that's all that people want to hear When I am now making music that feels like really close to who I am. It's like Yeah, that's that sucks. Yeah, totally It's not everyone. It's not everyone but you know No, the real the real Lizzy heads want whatever that's the thing is like

True fans. There's there's levels to fandom and like true deep like dyed-in-the-wool fans of your music They want whatever if you put out a fucking EDM album, they'd be there for it You know, I mean, it's like they want what you want to make they're like we like that Lizzy was excited about this But yeah It's like when it like when it leaves the target audience, when there's a broader coalition of people who know and enjoy even passively your work, it's tough. I have definitely had things with this where, when I first started getting a big following on the internet,

there were certain characters I did that people wanted me to do over and over again. And then they only wanted me to be that guy for them. And I refuse. I'm like, I will not. If it gets to a point where I'm doing a character, I don't really do characters on the internet anymore. But when I was doing a character, if it got to the point where people were commenting on all my other shit asking for that, I would stop doing it entirely. Because I was like, I'm not going to, thank you so much for liking it. And it genuinely is so cool that I get to like express myself as a human being, as an artist,

in these silly ways in that you respond to it. But I cannot enter into this contract with you where I'll only be one thing for you forever. I'm not interested in it. It sucks. I'm like, I don't. And there are some people who would like that. Because we all grow.

We're all growing. And to think that someone will just stay the same for you forever is kind of a crazy concept. Yeah, and it's a little like, there's a part of it that's like, I don't wanna make this sound infantilizing, but there's a part of it that's like dessert for breakfast where it's like if I actually gave you what you wanted,

eventually you wouldn't like it. Right, that's true. If I was only that guy for you forever, you would get tired of it. And you may not believe that, but that is reality. Do you know what I mean? Like eventually you would go like, oh, I'm done with that guy, he only does the one thing.

You know what I mean? Then that would be so corrosive to my soul because I didn't even wanna be the one thing for you. But I did it because you were asking. That's so real. You know? Yeah, I don't. So, okay, but enough about, certainly enough about me. The next album, do you already know who's like producing it? Do you have

the team in place? Like what is it? Not really. No, not that. I, before I came here to do Floyd, I was writing a lot. I basically had like two full albums written before I got here. And then I came here and I was doing this and I was being exposed to this type of music that is in the show and and I started writing new stuff that sounds kind of different and and More mature even than like stuff that I was writing like half a year ago It's it's kind of crazy. I feel like this past year has been a lot of growth for me and so the music is reflecting that and I'm kind of trying to catch up with myself

honestly in the music that I'm writing because I'm I feel like I'm learning so much about myself and I'm trying to write about that stuff. So I don't really know what's what it's gonna look like yet, because I'm I feel like I'm still in the process of like yet because I feel like I'm still in the process of growing. And so I can't, I have to wait until that's not done because I'm never done growing. But it just still feels like I'm in a period of intense transformation. So I'm trying to live that and then write about that and then see what happens. Yeah. What are you writing about right now? Can I ask like what's good? What are the big what are the big inspiration touchpoints? Um a lot about freedom

Yeah, and like my independence because last a year ago like last month I broke up with my ex and I Did that with the sole purpose of like wanting to? have my own life because I felt like I kind of was... I just kind of entered into his life, which was fun and great, and I had a great time. But at the end of it, I was like, wait, I don't have any friends. And I don't have any of my own things that I do like by myself for myself And so I really wanted to spend time with myself in my house in LA and then and Then like I had two weeks in my house basically where I was like, yes

I have a routine and I'm loving this and then I had to go on tour Which disrupted all of that? and then I kind of like was just seeing someone else at the time after that. And then I was learning things about myself through that. And then that ended. And then it's just like a whole like I'm just like experiencing life.

It feels like for the first time, honestly, because after that relationship ended last year, I was like, oh my god, like I can do so many things. Like I'm free. Yeah, you know, like it felt like really cool to be free. And so now coming here, and I really am in a routine, like I feel like I crave routine and I, you do not have that on tour at all. And so that was tough for me to, to like know that I wanted that, but I couldn't have it yet. And then I got here and I've just been like loving life because I have a routine. I do the same thing every day and I kind of am loving it. But then there's also like, you know, I don't know, I just, I'm just, I don't, I don't know, I just, I'm just, I don't, does that make any sense? Like, I'm just like really having a great time right now,

honestly, and yeah, my independence is a top priority for me at this point in my life, and yeah. I think about freedom all the time, and I think about specifically, it's funny that you mentioned routine as well, because I think about the way that freedom interplays with routine, where it's like, I have a lot of freedom all the time. And I think about specifically, it's funny that you mentioned routine as well, because I think about the way that freedom interplays with routine, where it's like, I have a lot of freedom in my life.

Like I am lucky that my career has provided me the opportunity to like, we kind of record when I want to record. We kind of, I go on tour when I want to go on tour. I kind of say no to filming projects if I'm not in the mood to film projects. It's like, I don't have the freedom to get anything made that I want to get made.

I don't have that kind of power or money. But I have a lot of freedom, you know? And it's funny because like I don't have the freedom to get anything made that I wanna get made. I don't have that kind of power or money. But I have a lot of freedom, you know? And it's funny because there are things I think I did a lot better when I had the forced routine of a nine to five job, or my survival jobs. They forced a kind of routine on me. And now I'm the guy who has to force routine if I want it.

And it's funny, it's like I love my freedom. I prioritize it at every step. I actively turn down a lot of different kinds of work or relationships or opportunities just to preserve freedom. But then when there's too much freedom and no routine, I totally spin out and I need some level of routine, which is not the opposite of freedom, but it's an interesting, the way that they work

or don't work together is something I think about a lot. Same, because before I came here, I did not have a single routine. I was just like, I were on tour and we're like moving every day. And it was just like, I was just going with the motions. And then I came here and I also went while I was on tour and in between, I wasn't in my house because it was getting renovated. So I was in this apartment and it was just, it felt like kind of foreign and I couldn't

really settle into that place because I knew I was going to be leaving again. And being here and being able to create a routine for myself. It feels honestly more freeing than when I had no routine and I was just like, what am I doing with my life? Maybe that makes no sense, but. That makes sense. It just, I don't know. Because I'm in control of what I do and if I wanna do something, I'll do it

and that feels freeing to me. I started thinking a lot about freedom because I was, there was this question I was asking people at like, you know, dinner and just like hanging out a lot where I was asking people what you wake up five years from today. What is your perfect day? Like what does your life look like in five years through the lens of one perfect day? And I asked so many people this question, like people who, you know, people have different, all kinds of different experiences,

people who are from different places people of different, all kinds of different experiences. People who are from different places, people who make different amounts of money, people who do different kinds of things. And across the board, there was like really only one through line and it was freedom. Like everyone was like, I have the ability to, you know, move this thing a couple hours

and go to lunch with a friend if they call. I have the ability to wake up without an alarm. I have the, like freedom was like this big like, river that runs through everyone's answers, which was really interesting to me. Type A, Type B, it didn't matter. Everyone just wanted a level of freedom. They expressed it in different ways, but it was a thing I noticed. I was just like, oh, that's so interesting. That's kind of what we all want. It's not always freedom from a relationship or freedom from a job or whatever, but everyone generally just wants to feel like on some level

I am free to do what I would like to do. Yeah, and I also was writing before I came here I was writing a lot about freedom within a relationship like that's also something that I was learning a lot about and like needed to because my last relationship was like so not not not freeing but I don't it was just different and the relationship that I got into after that one was like so incredible and like so like a complete like 180 from my last one and I was learning how to be like have my own life and also be in a relationship and it's crazy. So I was writing a lot about that and

also I you know I've I was writing about I've been writing about, I wrote a song about tour again, because it's just a lot, so I got to write about it somehow. Yeah, what else am I writing about? I don't know. Just really freedom is the main through line. Yeah. Yeah, when you're on tour, your brain becomes this like, it's like we just got off a massive one, like 25 cities or something.

And it, or massive for us, I should say. Um, I know other comedians do like year and a half long tours. It was big for us. That's so crazy. Um, but yeah, I just start to think about these little things that are so specific, like the specific act I was thinking for like two weeks straight about the specific act of every day I would get to a new hotel and remove, there's a place in my wallet where I keep whatever hotel key I'm using at the time. I would remove, I would remove the one from the previous hotel from the night before,

throw it in the trash can in the new hotel room, and put in the new hotel key. And I would do that every single day into the same place, and I would be like, that is so fucking weird. Like, there's something, there's not anything really profound about that, I don't like that is so fucking weird like there's something there's not anything really profound about that I don't think but it just was like every fucking day I would remove a key to a place I'm now hundreds of miles away from. It's crazy. That's weird. It's a crazy lifestyle like

it really is it's so it's so like unnatural. Yeah it is it's like we did there was a there was a we also comedy tours are routed so differently because we just pretty much can show up and start the did there was a there was a we also comedy tours are routed so differently because we just pretty much can show Up and start the show This was a little different because we had tech stuff So we did a little bit of a check but yeah We we did Atlanta one night in Toronto the next like you just get on a plane. It's like that's so crazy No, it's so crazy. That's nutty. Well, yeah

Also, it's like when I was touring before my last tour It was set up in a in the normal way that like a lot of musicians tour which is like a van tour or a bus or what was that we were on a bus yeah trying to get a gauge of where we were in it yeah okay bus tour and this was like 20 23 and yeah it was like crazy it was routed like you know the normal We're like, sometimes we're doing three shows in a row and then we're like showing up to the venue and playing a show later that night. And it was just all crammed into like a month and a half.

And I literally, like I was getting sick, like physically on every tour that I was going on because it was so, it was such a strain on my body and my I wasn't like eating. It was like I was miserable. And so on my last tour that we just did, we made it totally different and we spread the dates out and we weren't on a bus. We were just flying everywhere and had like, we would do two weeks of tour and then two weeks off and then two weeks. And it was just like so much better.

And yeah, I got a little bit of pushback in the beginning because people were like, well, this is not how you do it. Like it's more expensive and blah, blah. And I was like, I don't really care. I need to like be sane while doing this. otherwise I'm gonna have a horrible time and it's gonna show on stage because I can't keep any emotion inside of my body like if I'm feeling a certain way it will come out even if I don't want it to and and if I'm like upset or not having a good time one day like the show is gonna

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I'm just talking about in general, there's this constant influx of like, uh, ways you can extract more and more and more money, ways you can save money. You can do an extra night. You can travel quicker. You can do an extra night, you can travel quicker, you can make yourself more tired, you can dynamic, you can, the venue will let you flex pricing the tickets so that you can screw over whoever gets to the tickets late, you, which Scott Borgs were already gonna do for you,

you can upsell the merch, you can, I get all these ways that you can extract more and more and more money, and I go, well wait, if the sole thing I got into this for was to protect the bottom line and extract more and more money and I go well wait if I if that if the sole thing I got into this for was to protect the bottom line and extract more and more money and create more and more profit I think I would have just worked in finance or something right I'm like that's not what I'm doing kind of what the song that I wrote is about like it's it's um like it's just like never ending really also because I also feel like when I did my 2023 tour, I did the first tour and then

they were like, okay, we're going to do another one in the same, the same cities, just bigger venues. And I was like, for the same album? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, but I already did this. And they were like, well, you do it again. And I'm like, really? Like, I was like, wait, what? So then I was like, wait, what? So then I did that. I was like, wait, what? And then I had to cancel the Europe leg of that second tour because I was like literally unwell. And it just like never ends. It's just, they get you and then they use like

keep going in this cycle and it just never ends. And eventually I was like, I have to put my foot down. Like I can't be doing this all the time because it's not sustainable at all for me Yeah, they'll put you on the wheel if you allow yourself to put on the wheel I'll put you on the hamster wheel you have to ask to be more like I think of it more like I don't want to Be in the hamster wheel, but I'm fine doing the like Like the motorized walkways at the airport kind of thing

I will I will play the I will do some things you know they're like little stretches of the career where I will do the, I will do some things, you know, they're like little stretches of the career where I will do the fast, smart, like, what's the word I'm looking for, like optimized thing, but I can't be on the wheel. I'm not gonna just in perpetuity stand there and run and run and run and run and run. Yeah, no. I have a question for you. Yes.

Which is kind of the theme of the show. Right. Um, when you're writing a song, do you, is there a place you typically start? Do you start more with, do you start with the melody? Do you start with the lyrics? Like where are you starting more often? I start, I kind of recently it's kind of been shifting, but for the most part, I

start with the chords because I feel like those dictate the tone of the song. because I feel like those dictate the tone of the song. And then after that, the words and the melody kind of come hand in hand. Because it's really just like word vomit. I'm just like, I sing things and then I'm like, okay, either that was horrible or that was amazing and I'll write it down. And then that's how I write a song.

It really is just like, yeah. Yeah, so you don't have a bunch of like I feel like it's not two camps But I I feel like some of my musician friends Have a bunch of lyrics sitting around that need melodies or they have a bunch of melodies sitting around the new lyrics and you're not That's not happening with you Sometimes if lyrics are coming to me I will write them down and then build a song based on those But that does not happen very often and if it does The song is not very good Sometimes I I have started with a title like a few times

Like the song that I was just talking about about tour and fame and all that stuff it started from a title That my friend just like said we were just in conversation and he said this phrase and I was like oh that's that's good yeah and then I wrote the song but that doesn't happen very often yeah well you went to Berkeley for what three years to I dropped out halfway through you dropped out well that's which is such a popular like I feel like that's a huge joke about Berkeley like if you finish you know right we're talking to Justin Tranter about that.

Like, if you finish Berkeley, who knows where you're headed. But if you drop out, that's a really good sign, you know? When you were deciding to drop out of Berkeley, was that like a big decision, or what did that look like? Or were you just kind of like... It honestly felt really like, yeah, this is the logical next step because I was there, it was during my second year, halfway through the second semester and it was like March of 2020 and COVID happened and they shut down their in-person campus and so, and then my dad died on the same day and yikes.

Same day. Yeah, but they shut down everything. It was crazy time. It was crazy time. It was crazy time If I had to sum it up it was crazy time Yeah, it was crazy time God Yeah, then was crazy time. It was. Oh, God. Yeah. Geez. Then I went home and I had been making my first album through that whole year and I finished the semester online, which was horrible, doing songwriting classes over Zoom.

I was like, no, guys, I can't do this anymore. And then my first album was scheduled to come out in august so i was like okay i'm just gonna drop out and i don't really feel like i'm i didn't feel like i was needing it anymore yeah and i don't really know if i got anything out of like the classes that i was taking because i had to take a lot of like tonal harmony and like ear training and I don't know how to do that stuff like I don't know how to identify a chord if you play it if you just play it like I don't know how to do that and that stuff never factors into how I write music like I'm not thinking like okay I'm gonna write this chord progression and and like I just I don't

think about it that way so I felt felt like what I really got out of it was my community and the people that I met and I still have really close friends from there and that was what I needed, I think. And also just being exposed to all the different styles of music, like I had never listened to jazz before I went to Berkeley and that's like basically a lot of what that is, is there.

And so that definitely influenced what I was writing And that's like basically a lot of a lot of what that is is is there and so I that definitely influenced what I was writing and the the risks that I was willing to take in my music and Yeah, but dropping out was logical because I was like my album is gonna come out and I feel like I'm good Yeah, one. It was just crazy time. It was crazy time. Yeah I do you really tapped onto something though that I think is so true of like artistry in general, which is like, you don't necessarily have to go to Berkeley School of Music. You don't necessarily have to train comedy at IO in Chicago. You don't necessarily have to go to any of these places,

but you do have to find a community of people who give a shit about what you give a shit about. And these places do create that. So it's there if you want it, but you can also find it elsewhere. But yeah, that's the thing is like, the people you meet when you're starting out who are gonna inform your sensibilities, who are going to like help you figure out what's actually good, whether you're actually good,

what being good even means, like all those kind of questions are not necessarily something you're gonna get from like a class, but something that you might get from being in class with those people. I also met my ex who I wrote my entire last album about, so it was good.

God bless. God bless. Thank you. You know what? God bless. Thank you. Thank God for everybody I've ever met that taught me something, even if it was bad.

Exactly. That is in Boston. Is that where Berklee is? There's two. People always get them mixed up. I say I went to Berklee College of Music in Boston. Is that where Berklee is? There's two. People always get them mixed up. Yeah. I say I went to Berklee College of Music in Boston. Yeah.

Because if I just say Berklee, they're like, oh, in California. I'm like, no. No, not that. Not that one. Not that at all, actually. Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. I mean, music, oh God, I can't, I'm not, I don't have, I have such an appreciation for it. I love music so much and I listen to music all the time. I listen to music more than I do anything, I'm not, I don't have, I have such an appreciation for it. I love music so much and I listen to music all the time. I listen to music more than I do anything, but I have no idea how y'all, I don't know how you do it.

Honestly, like me neither. Like when you're like, I work on the chords, I'm like, totally. Right, like I don't know, honestly, it kind of feels like when I write a song, this might sound insane, but sometimes it feels like I'm literally just a channel Yeah, like it's coming from me, but it's also not coming from me. It's coming from somewhere else and I

You're like the Pope. I You're just like the Pope It's flowing through you. You're the Pope. Lizzie McAlpine is the Pope of music You heard it here first. Amen. Today's episode is brought to you by Alma Alma is on a mission to simplify access to high quality affordable mental health care. Alma has a community of over 20,000 diverse therapists. Therapists on the platform offer both in-person and virtual care. While online tools and resources can be a useful starting point or supplement, human

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Book today on the site or in the app. But I really feel like, cause when I try to write a song and I don't have the inspiration and it's not there, it feels like it's not there, it feels like it's just like not time yet. And sometimes I'll feel like I have a song, it's like in the back of my head, it's on the tip of my tongue, like it's about to happen but it's not ready yet.

And then when it is time, I'll just like know that it's time and it just like all comes out of me and It feels honestly like kind of spiritual. Yeah a little bit but Yeah, that's so crazy to me. It's it's yeah, I feel that way about writing I mean, there's there's definitely jokes that I'm like there will be I don't sit down that often with a pen and paper and go This is what this is gonna be I often have a thought that is like Persistently bugging me

and with me for a long time and I'm just I just trust I'm like that will come out as a joke eventually right and then yeah eventually it does and sometimes it's bad and sometimes it's good but either way it happens and then sometimes through like continuing to do it I make it better and it actually ends up being something like worthwhile. But yes, all my all my favorite jokes or all my favorite lines in a script or all my favorite things I've created have been something that just persistently bugged me and then eventually just kind of happened. Yep. It doesn't mean that like routine and like practice don't help. I mean, yeah, because I wrote, I've been writing for so long and I've written so many bad songs,

it's like, it allows, it, yeah, I don't know. It's like allowing that to happen now because I've been doing it for so long and I'm like, okay. I know how to do it, I know I can do it. Sometimes I'll write a song, a good song, and then I'll be like, I don't think I can ever write a good song ever again. Yeah.

Like, cause then I'll try and write after that and I'll be like, oh God, like like I think it's just done for me. I think it's over. I think I have to quit. It's over. I did my big one. It's time for retirement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's time to go to Boca Raton. Everything is over for me. I wrote a couple of good songs and my latest one was my last one. Yeah. Like it always feels that way. But then I'm like, okay, I know it's going to happen again. I just have to wait. Yeah.

Because also I'll be experiencing something and I'm like, I want to write a song about it, but I'm in the middle of it and I have to wait until I've processed the thing to be able to write about it. And that's frustrating sometimes because sometimes I'm like deep in it and I'm like, I need to write about this, but it just doesn't happen yet. So many musicians that I talk to allude to this idea of having all of these horrible allegedly horrible songs They've written and I'm like I want to convince y'all to put some of those out cuz I'm like I want to know I'm like some All my favorite musicians have said this exact same thing where they're like, oh, yeah

I'm good at writing cuz I've written so many bad ones. I might put a couple of them out I want to know I want to know I mean it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world probably Unless it was like stuff that I wrote when I was like 13, you know, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, probably, unless it was like stuff that I wrote when I was like 13, you know? Like that would be, I have, oh my God. I found this one song. Let's go. Sometimes I like look through my voice memos or my files,

but one time I was looking through my emails because when I was like 14, 15, my mom like got me, like she like bought Studio Time, and I went in and like recorded some of my own songs, and like recorded a cover of a Demi Lovato song, I don't know, I was just like having fun, you know? As one does, yeah. And I was looking for that,

and I found this song that I made in Garage Band, and it's so, it's honestly hilarious, like it's so funny, and I'm like, this is kind of a banger. What's it about, to be honest? I don't even know what it's so, it's honestly hilarious. Like it's so funny. And I'm like, this is kind of a banger. What's it about, be honest. I don't even know what it's about. And also like, what, I don't even know what the lyrics are. It's called Heartless.

Okay. First of all, let's start there. But like, what was I writing about? Like I was probably like 12, 13. Like I didn't have any life experiences to draw on. Yeah. But like stuff like that, I'm like, that can never see the light of day.

But stuff that I've written, I can play it for you after. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Play it at least for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the stuff that I've written in the past couple years is like, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It's just like, sometimes also, I don't release a song because, not because it's bad, just because it doesn. Yeah the story that I'm telling. Yeah

So what it what's what's if I if I was okay if I was like hey You have to make a Mount Rushmore of songs like this the best songs the best songs ever What are there like are there some that you would put in that category like what my own songs are of just songs in general? I would make you do that of your own category like what my own songs are of just some general I would make you do that of your own so I was like oh my god how many people are on that rush more I actually I asked that recently too someone asked me to do a man who is on that floor and how did they pick if they're on rose of Teddy Roosevelt's and Thomas how who like gets to choose was up there

what is wrong who chooses what's on I think choose? I think McKinley was up there. I don't know. I'm like, what is wrong with me? Who chooses what's on? I think it was probably just one white guy who picked. Right. Or maybe Congress, which is just a couple more white guys. What was the reason for it? At the time, who knows? I'm sure they did something evil. It was probably like the site where they killed

a bunch of Native Americans or something horrible. Like there's no chance it was just cool. You know what I mean? Right, no. This legitimately, like the land is constantly in dispute. Yeah, yeah, that's not good great but if you pick a statue we'll call it something else if you had to put four songs on a banner what are like four like what are four songs do you think are just

incredible oh my god okay I kind of look at my Spotify for this I'm trying to think I've done something like this before I said Godspeed is up there for me. Godspeed is so, like I just think it's such a beautiful song. And I, anyway, okay, Godspeed. Maybe to Zion, Lauryn Hill. I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think, I mean, you know, you feel like you should say something so old

or so like classic. Right, to be cool. And I'd be like, yeah, I always be like, Toco Bell's Canon and D, you know? I'm like, that's what we're gonna. Toco Bell's Canon and D? Toco Bell. Toco Bell's Canon and D.

Like, you wanna say something smart, but I'm like no of course I think it's like all stuff I've listened to in my lifetime. Right. I don't know, what do you got? It's tough because I have like my favorite songs right now, but I think overall, oh gosh, okay, probably like Amelia by Joni Mitchell. Yeah. It's like one of, that whole album,

Hazira is just like. That's a really cool answer. Just insane, like. Oh my God, all those songs, Coyote, Amelia, Hazira, whatever the other songs are. I can't think of them right now. What are my four favorite songs? Four songs from one Joni Mitchell album? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I love that.

What else? I just, I've really like, I started listening to Joni like recently, kind of in the past year. I was going to ask if she was an influence for you. In the past year and it's like opened my world up. I'm like, where have I been? my world up. I'm like, where have I been? Literally. So lots of her songs are probably on there, but also Nick Drake is probably on there, like Road, that song is so cool. And then maybe like the song Zanzibar by Billy Joel. It's just like kind of a banger. You gonna put a Demi song on there or no? Oh, I can.

I can. I love her older stuff. Oh, what is that album? Yep, it's gonna come to me. Don't even worry about it. Here We Go Again, that song. Do you know that song? Or or then like get back again. Here he comes again. What's that? I'm thinking of a Dolly Parton song Oh, yeah, that's not

Yeah, I know that song I don't know who that is though, it's dolly But I can't remember what the name of the song is for some reason Here you come again. I think it's Here You Come Again. Yeah, maybe. Or Here He Comes Again. Anyway, that does inspire another question for me though. Who are your influences? Like when you think about like,

Lizzie McAlpine, Body of Work, who informs? Right now? Yeah. Or like in general? I think I was probably asking in general, but guess what, I'll take whatever you give me. I don't really know, because it changes, because I feel like when I was writing my first album,

it was like Sara Bareilles, like Dodie, who else? I don't even really remember. And then like Five Seconds Flat was like Phoebe Bridgers Holly Humberstone like that type of vibe Yeah, and then Now I feel like I also me saying love Holly. I think it's just known that I love Phoebe I want to be clear about that right right yeah, yeah

and recently with older it was kind of like Andy Shoff And recently with older it was kind of like Andy Schaaf, I don't know if you know Andy Schaaf. We don't. I love his music so much. He's so good. And like Lee Fulbeck and like more indie artists and now the stuff that I'm writing is very inspired by Joni like heavily Joni and like Crosby, Stills and Nash. that I'm writing is very inspired by Joni, like heavily Joni and like Crosby, Stills and Nash. Come on.

Who else? I made a playlist for it. I make playlists for like inspiration for my albums and it's Neil Young, Sufjan. Do you ever share those? Not really. I think you've never put those out. No, but that's kind of cool. Maybe I should. That would be kind of interesting actually.

Yeah, Sufjan. Sufjan, yeah, of cool. Maybe I should that would be kind of interesting actually Yeah, Sufjan Sufjan. Yeah, of course, but like yeah, but it kind of changes a lot but that's what I've been into recently that's been really inspiring and also like like the composer of this musical that I'm in Adam Gettle is like very inspiring to me also even though it's Broadway, but it's it's the The way that he writes music is so crazy because it's so non-intuitive. Like some of the melodies that he chooses are like, I did not expect that to go there. The chords that he uses, like it's crazy. And I've really been inspired by that too. Yeah. Yeah. That makes so much sense to me.

Yeah. Well, you know, we always ask people on this show, what's so true to you? Do you have a so true? OK, I think it's that sometimes it's OK to cancel. I think in a big way it's OK to cancel. I think so too, because I do it all the time. Sometimes it's the most emotional thing to do.

Sometimes you just can't emotionally. Also, literally, you're correct about this. And also, sometimes showing up in a bad mood is, that's almost always the wrong thing to do. If you're gonna be in a bad mood, I would prefer you cancel on me. I don't wanna go to dinner and you're clearly struggling through it.

Stay home, I'll do something else. Sometimes I'm like, I just can't, my social battery goes so fast that it's like, if I am scheduling a dinner with you after a long day of doing things in public, I'm like, I'm sorry, I have to stay inside and stare at a wall right now. Yeah, I need to stare at a wall sometimes.

Same, all the time. Canceling can be kind, canceling is kindness in some ways. Exactly. And it's almost always acceptable. I've gotten better about this, I will say when I was younger I had a beef with people who canceled on stuff, I'll be like, for what, just power through. And I've really gotten better about this. I will say when I was younger, I had a beef with people who canceled on stuff. I'll be like, for what? Just power through.

And I've really gotten to a point where I'm like, no. Thank you. I fully agonize. Well, also, what if you're sick? I don't want to be around you if you're sick. Yeah. I do like canceling. I do think it's good.

Me too. And it feels so good. It does. Oh, god, the relief. Yeah. I've canceled on work things before, at the last minute too, because I'm like, I just thought I could do this. And I said yes for some reason, but I just

don't think I can do it. And then once that text is sent, it's like, whew. Oh, I just got high. That felt so good, even just to remember the times I felt that. When you've been stressing I really don't want to do it and then you send that text or that email and you're like you're like and then they're like All good. No worries. Yes Dude the fucking cathartic release of like I didn't want to do this and I didn't and it all worked out fine

That's special yeah, that's so special and even the way, even I don't even really need it. I've gotten to a point with like, I know that I am a, I know that I'm a nice person. I know that I'm a thoughtful person. I know that I'm a reliable person. Even if I know that it is worries on their end, that if it's like it actually fucked up their day that I had to cancel this.

But I know that I had to for some reason, like I didn't have the battery or something else came up. I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I, they will just have to make peace with that. Yeah. I do it for other people all the time. There are plenty of times someone has had to cancel on me or had to change something on me that I've had to just be like, that really sucks for me, but I'm going to figure it out and you'll get me back.

They're just going to have to have the same mentality or not and be miserable about it, but I can't control it. Right. I get relinquishing that control of like, I think when I was younger, I was like, you cannot be mad at me. You have to understand. I'm now like, you don't have to, I get relinquishing that control of like, I think when I was younger I was like, you cannot be mad at me, you have to understand. I'm now like, you don't have to, I hope you do. Do you know what I mean? You actually don't have to and I can't force you to, but I would understand if the roles were reversed

and if you can't, that really sucks for both of us. But you're just gonna have to do whatever you have to do. Do you know what I mean? And not in a mean way, it's just like, I'll do whatever I can. Like if I've had to cancel on a work thing, I almost always, of course, try to do it with as much lead out time as possible.

And I've offered a show I'll offer to be like, I'll try to find a comic to replace me on the lineup or whatever. I will try to help. But yeah, sometimes it's just unavoidable and you have to cancel. Especially if it's a low key social engagement, it's like, we can reschedule coffee.

Right. You know? Yeah. But those I feel less bad about because it's like, we have all the time in the world. Yeah. Life is long. Yeah. And of course I want to see you.

I will say there is a, there's a cap. I do have some friends who have gotten so comfortable with canceling that they're like, if we're rescheduling coffee for the fourth time, that's probably when I'm going to go, Hey, I'm not going to be texting about this anymore. And we might just not be hanging out. And that is actually also okay. But there is a cap to the reschedule. Yeah at a certain point

It's a full cancel and then we come back later and try to do a new plan, right? We're not rescheduling the same thing. You know, I mean, yeah. Yeah that there is a cap on that. Do you know I mean? Yes, I do. I do think that's true. Yeah, I do think that at a certain point it's like yeah We're no longer rescheduling that coffee from April when it's December We're actually now talking about a new plan. Yeah. We might want to like, let's start talking about the zoo or something. Yeah. We need to, we need to just change the whole plan altogether. I will do that sometimes if I've had to cancel twice,

when I reach out for the third time, I'll be like, Hey, I know we said coffee, but do we want to do dinner? Like I'll change the, I'm like this might change the kinetic energy of what we're trying to do. Maybe it's the afternoon that's fucking with us. Maybe we needed the sun to be down for this to work out. Yeah, maybe. I do start thinking about that. That's so funny.

Canceling is good, I like this so true. Yeah. This is a really good one. I have a segment for you. Okay, great. Okay, this is a true or false segment. Okay. I'm gonna read you 15 statements.

You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false. Okay. And then if you get 10 or more correct, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars. Just a little treat. Just a little treat. Okay, you ready? Julie Andrews has an EGOT.

True. False. The Master Chief from the Halo games real first name is John. False? It's true. Oh my God. The Scottish language only has three words for snow. I should know this I'm Scottish. True. False. 421. 421? Apparently. Meg White wanted to be a chef before her drumming career took off.

What is that? Oh. Um. True. True. Okay, the original London Bridge is now in Arizona False true what next to normal debuted on Broadway in 2005 False 2008 that was a check. Wow Alaska moves is three inches closer to why every year True true Kylie Kelsey went to lower Marion high school true true That was a tricky one. Wow! Alaska moves three inches closer to Hawaii every year. True. True. Kylie Kelsey went to Lower Marion High School.

True. True. I knew that one. Plastics take 20 years to decompose. I feel like it'd take more. False. False, 450 years. Oh, God!

Whoa! Amazon was originally an online travel agency. True, false? False, it was an online travel agency. True, false? False, it was an online bookstore. Big Bear Lake is south of Los Angeles. South? False? False, it's north.

You're killing it. I've been there. Batman was created before Superman. False. False. The mascot for Wawa is Wally the Seal. False. False, it's Wally the Goose. What the heck, a Wawa is Wally the Seal. False. False, it's Wally the Goose.

What the heck, a seal? I've never seen that. What the heck, you wish. Spring Awakening is set in Germany. True. True. There are no dinosaur bones in the Grand Canyon. True.

It's true, I don't know how we know that. It is true, how'd she do? One of the greatest comebacks of all time. Really? Wow! Okay.backs of all time. 10. Wow! Okay. That's actually crazy. Wow.

You went on a legendary run. I really thought that I was not gonna do well at the beginning. You went on a legendary run, dude. That was sick. That was very special. Actually, we haven't had that before. No.

What? We've had people do really well out of the gate and then win, we've had people do really bad out of the gate and then lose. We have not had a comeback like that. Oh my God. You did something legendary today on the So True Pod. That is so funny. Okay, so okay things that people can do right now.

Where can they find you? What should they listen to? What should they watch? Tell them about Lizzie. Okay, um you can find me anywhere. Yeah. On Spotify, Apple Music, all the streaming platforms, Instagram, just my name, TikTok, you know, all that stuff. What was the second one? What should they listen to? Oh, they should come see you in your show. Yeah, I'm in Floyd Collins right now on Broadway at the Lincoln Center Theater. Yeah, come see that. Come see Floyd Collins before the end of June. Yes. That's so exciting. Congratulations, dude. Thanks. And thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. I love the music so much and I can't wait to hear the rest of it. I'm so excited for

the new stuff. Woohoo. Thanks for doing it, dude. Yay. That was a hate gum podcast. Hi there. My name is Allison Williams. If you know who I am at all, it would probably be thanks to my job as an actress on shows like Girls and in movies like Megan. Recently, when I was having a moment of gratitude for my group chat, I thought, I wish everyone

could have these geniuses at their fingertips like I do. Well, now you do. Hi, Hi, it's Hope. Hey babe, it's Jamie. Welcome to our podcast, Landlines, where we share our life-sustaining and shame-extinguishing friendship. We have known each other and we've been friends for a very long time. Hope was my first best friend, but it wasn't mutual.

I mean, it wasn't the story of my life. I distinctly remember calling her on the phone and asking if she'd sit next to me on the bus and she said maybe. At least she didn't say no. She always said maybe. Maybe it's meaner. She wasn't sure.

Maybe it was like discerning. When I was pregnant, I started this group chat to prepare and crowd source. And it's been such a delight to troubleshoot with our friend group. And we just had this thought, should we invite other people into our group chat? I'm a therapist.

I'm a trained early childhood educator. And I'm, well, you know, whatever I am. I guess someone who has the vibe of having it all together. And still, the three of us find it hard to be moms, partners, friends, family members, professional women, and just, you know, adults. The stuff we're talking about, whatever the recent fight was with our partner or the parenting concern we have or a funny thing with our kids. Or it's like, what's going on with my body?

I feel like I have like a family of squirrels living in my lower abdomen. Like, I feel affirmed, I feel normalized, I feel like I'm not going fucking crazy. And I had to talk it out with you guys with different perspectives and different identities that you're juggling. Totally. Lifelong friendship has been our lifeline. We sincerely hope our conversation makes you feel less alone in whatever you're going through.

So subscribe to Landlines on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes are out now on Headgum. Love you! Hey, Gorge. It's me, Gottmik. And me, Violet Tchotchke. And we want you to listen to our podcast, No Gorge, now on HeadGum. Each episode, we will be bringing you vlogs, answering burning questions, discussing what's going on right now, and diving into all things fashion, hookups, gossip, and more. With past guests such as Heidi Klum and Deedavon Tees, NoGorge always keeps things hot. Listen to NoGorge on your favorite podcast app or watch full video episodes on YouTube. New episodes every Thursday. Bye, Gorge!