So True with Caleb Hearon - Paul F. Tompkins is Happier Than Ever

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

Welcome back! Today’s guest is the legendary Paul F. Tompkins! Paul and Caleb talk about the current state of world affairs, history, finding ways to stay positive, possums, and much more! We are on TOUR! Come see So True LIVE in a city near you! Dates/Tickets can be found here: https://www.livenation.com/artist/K8vZ917qN1f/so-true-with-caleb-hearon-events Join our Patreon for an exclusive extended interview with Paul and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink  Follow Paul! @pftompkinsFollow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Book now at www.Booking.com ! Go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/SOTRUE to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Go to hims.com/SOTRUE for your personalized ED treatment options.About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. I just want us all to realize that there is... I mean, I don't know if we have time to get into the revolution. Laughter Music Paul, what's going on with you? You know, the usual shit. I mean, everything's...

I gotta say, everything is good. But it is, I'm in one of those places where I'm frantic. I had bad sleep last night, I had anxiety sleep. I was thinking about shit. What was going on? Not even like world stuff, but just things that I have to do. Walk me through it. What's going on in Not even like world stuff, but just things that I have to do. Walk me through it. What's going on in your anxiety

that's keeping you from sleeping, brother? I got this. Come on, share. You're safe here. I got this tour coming up. Yes. And there's some things that are in place, and I feel great about that.

Now I have to worry about all the things that I do on the tour. It's a variety show So I build like all this stuff. We have guests and things like that. So like there's a lot of things are taken care of That I'm a part of but are not me by myself And now I have to come up with stand-up material. Mm-hmm and with Some sketchy thing unreal Unreal. Maybe a video. You're one of the most oppressed and put upon people.

This is a, this is a hit job. You asked me what's wrong. No, I gotcha. What's crazy is I'm kind of not kidding. It really is so bad to have to do the thing you said you would do. That doesn't feel fair. Well, because now you have to do it.

I'm saying it's really horrible. It's true. It's like the planning of the thing is so much fun. Yeah. And then you're like, no, but those spaces have to be filled with things. Yes. You can't just say, and then there'll be like a thing like this. You can't do that in the show.

Because when you pitch the show, I'm being so sincere when I say I think one of the worst things that happens to anyone on earth is when you say you're going to do something and then people expect it. When you say, when you pitch the show, you go oh, yeah, and then a sketch it feels so good Yeah, just say I'll do a sketch that makes everyone laugh. Yeah, yeah, it's a write the sketch. Yeah Stop it. Yeah, pu. Yeah, it sucks. I we're in a moment. We have been on our tour for a while that is a variety show as well and We are in the moment now where I didn't book a lot of the the last the last several cities are very special cities

Where it's like we're playing big iconic venues and they turned out to be like we're doing LA Boston Chicago, New York They're big ones for us and I hadn't booked a lot of it. Yeah, and so these last couple weeks. I've been like Fuck waking up every day going. I've got to figure out the drag queen for that city You know absolutely and I so I feel exactly your type of anxiety and it's right when I'm going to sleep But right when I'm waking up, yeah, especially on a day when I'm supposed to be relaxing Yeah, I wake up and go drag queen like I'm truly like It haunts me putting these shows together now that makes me think of a modern retelling of Christmas Carol yes drag queens instead of ghosts come on drag queens of Chris of variety shows future

Mama we're gonna work or not are we gonna work? Mama will it give will it slay? Could be me and you could be working on a pretty interesting. Let's get final draft open this could be good What your tickets are on sale now for you to her And you're going on tour to a bunch of cities. A bunch of cities I've been before, some new places I haven't been before. Going to Iowa. I've never performed in Iowa before. Des Moines?

No, Iowa City. Fun. Iowa City. I like Iowa City. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I think we did an Iowa shout out on one of the Pods episodes recently. Please tell me that's so. Is that so?

I think we did an Iowa shout out. Please, thank you. I think we did an Iowa shout out. Please, thank you. I think we did an Iowa shout out. I needed the closure on that. Somebody was in the comments recently saying that we shouted out Iowa and I don't remember what happened. I do like Iowa. Well, it's so close to Missouri.

You're going to be over there if you're me. It's just like that. Are you going to Missouri? No. I don't think so. Not kids. No, St. Louis. Yeah, that's Missouri.

Yeah. Nice. Hell yeah. Thank God. I forgot. I have to see it in my head as St. Louis. Yeah, that's Missouri. Yeah, nice. Hell yeah. Yes. Thank God. I forgot. I have to see it in my head as St. Louis MO, and then I know. That's exactly how. STL MO. You need to go after your show in St. Louis.

You need to go get sandwiches at Gramophone. Gramophone, okay. Very, very good late night sandwich spot. Okay. Just a hot brick in your stomach before bed. Something nice to send you off to your dreams Yeah, you won't have anxiety about anything other than what's gonna happen to your stomach That's a dream in itself eat a big hot Italian sandwich and then hop right in the hotel bed

That's my that's my dream my friend. Do you think that cuz I listen to the podcast this one. Yes, no Paul yeah, you I'm a fan. What if I blush come. No. Yeah, I do. Paul. Yeah, yeah. I'm a fan. What if I blush? Come on. You know I'm shy. Do you? Ha ha.

That's certainly, and certainly anyone who listens to the podcast knows that. They know I'm shy. Do you think this will be the least listened to episode? No. That your fans will be like, who's this old man? They will be like that. No, no, not at all. You know what's interesting is I think we get a lot of requests from very famous internet

people to come on the show and we say no to pretty much all of them. The Paul brothers? They've tried to box me on the show. No, but it's interesting. We get the same, there's really only a spike in like, I have a couple friends who's like, their episodes, you know, it's like Britney Broski or Trixie Mantell or something.

Their fans go wild on those ones. Every other guest I have, every comic, depending on what they've got, it's the same. It's the same, Paul. They're gonna be there for you and they're gonna love you and they're gonna be in the comments going, who is this fabulous man with this beautiful hat? That's what's gonna happen for you.

I hope so. What's your least favorite episode of the show? You've listened to a couple episodes of the show. Yeah, my least favorite episode. Yeah, be honest. Josh Gondelman. Yeah, what a scumbag. I mean, sorry Josh, but.

A scumbag. Here's why I listen to your show because I wanna hear the guest say things like Remember that time I found out I was in a throuple Yeah, yeah, that's what it that's what we're here. That's what we're all here for what uh What is okay that so Josh Conam and Julie's favorite that that's good to know I'm interested It's just funny to me that you listen. I like that. That means the world to me. I like to first of all I enjoy you so much and I was thrilled that you had started doing this podcast

But then it also introduces me to people that I didn't know Mm-hmm And like I just met I listened to her on the show and then started following her on Instagram Then we talked and then I met her like a few days later Laura peak. Oh my god, right? I enjoyed that that Leanne Robes Great episode, but I really I I love being introduced to these people I'm always looking to do that to like expand my world outside of the same eight people I see. You know what I mean?

Well it gets easy. It's exciting. It gets really easy I think to, in comedy and probably just in life, but just to, I feel like I just moved out of LA recently because I felt like I was in a groove. Not a rut, rut feels bad, groove is good. But I was going to the same restaurants

with the same people and I felt like I needed something to shake everything about my life a little bit. And I also have to blow up my life every three or four years It's like something that's wrong with me But I do it is I'm always looking for I was just thinking the other night about I went to a friend's show musician friend show and their opener was so great and I was like, oh man I need to like I need to get plugged into more new stuff Yeah, more new music more new, you know? Never skip The Opener.

No. Never skip The Opener. If you can help it. I've seen so many people that I would not have seen otherwise that I really enjoyed because I got there early enough to see The Opener. Yeah. And it's like, you never know.

You might discover your new favorite band, and it's like, it's more show. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's more show. Give the people more show. Give the people more show. It's also, I's more show. You know what I mean? It's more show. Give the people more show. Give the people more show. It's also, I've been thinking a lot lately about

like certainty and designing, like all these little things we do to design our days so that we never get inconvenienced. And I've been thinking about the value of inconvenience and what can be found in inconvenience. It might be that you, yeah, you go to the venue and it might be that the opener sucks and actually you didn't have a good time and it would have been nicer to stay at dinner longer with your friends beforehand

Yeah, it is worthwhile to have an inconvenient experience. Yeah, it's worthwhile to have a bad time sometimes Yeah, but I think about all these things that I'm not talking about people in general even I'm talking about me all these little things I do where I don't even want to go to a restaurant unless I've spent ten minutes Google image Going through the the menu and really plates and the chairs and the I want to know everything about it Just to make sure that I know I'm gonna like it. Yeah, and I am sometimes rewarded with really good Outcomes, you know, yeah but I just think man how many places have I skipped over because the the seventh picture in the Google image slide wasn't wasn't giving what I needed it toerman I used to be a terrible eater. I was really picky. I was just a holdover from

childhood or whatever, but I assumed I didn't like a lot of things until I tried them. And a big thing for me was when I quit smoking. I was like, okay, if I can do that, maybe I can do other things. Maybe I can make myself like these foods that are good for me. And it really opened up my whole world. And then I became a person who I didn't think about, I didn't have to think anymore about the restaurant that I was going to. Except for a while, seafood was like a last barrier for me.

Where I was like, I just don't want to eat fish. Really? And now I've, but I made myself, I just don't want to eat fish. Really? And now I've... But I made myself, like, introduce it into my diet. Yeah. And now I don't have to be afraid to go anywhere, you know? Yeah. And it's very freeing.

The big turning point for me was a friend of mine had his... He was turning 40. He was in New York, and he invited the people that were coming in from out of town to a dinner the night before. And we went to WD-40, which I had never heard of it, and this was the advent of molecular gastronomy. Yeah. When it's like, this pellet is a peanut butter

and jelly sandwich or whatever. Yeah, whatever. And I had a moment of panic where it's like, I can't eat here? What's going to happen? And then I just said, you just have to give yourself over to whatever this is. Yeah.

How bad could it be? Yeah. I really had to say, how bad? It's food. How bad could it be? Yeah. People are eating it on purpose. Yeah.

Come on. Someone put it together for it to be eaten. How bad could it be? Yeah people were eating it on purpose Come on someone put it together for it to be eaten. How bad could it be? Yeah, yeah, and it was great Yeah and then I had to but I had to remind myself of that for a while until I got into the Into the habit of saying it's gonna be fine and looking forward to having a new experience Yeah, because I can very much. I'm very much creature of habit. I can do the same thing every day I can eat the same thing every day. I can eat the same thing every day

and not have a problem with it and not get tired of it. OK, that brings up a question for me. And this might be, yeah, we'll see. If you don't like it, we'll just move on or cut it or whatever. I guess the reason I say that is because it feels like a big question. And sometimes when you ask a big question, you put people in a corner.

But what do you think is the most important like thing you've learned or like the most important habit you've changed? Like what is the thing that you've gotten good at or okay with that has made your life the most better? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And honestly, I think the answer is developing empathy. Like, not that I never had empathy, but understanding what that is and how to cultivate it, you know? And it makes the world a slightly less scary place, but also it shrinks the world a little bit.

And you understand people a little bit better, and you give them a little more grace, or I give them a little more grace than I used to. Understanding that people by and large are going through the same things that you're going through. The world is tough. It's tough to be a person because we got these fucking big brains that are very complex and it leads to a lot of fear and confusion and all these things that we go through, but it also affords you so many wonderful experiences. And to just let people have a moment

where they might be having a bad time. Yeah. And also, I mean, it's very hard right now because we're in a place where it's hard to wrap your mind around somebody seeing the world so fundamentally differently than you do, that it's like, you really think this? You really think these people are bad

or these people need to be removed from society or these people need to not removed from society or these people need to not have the freedom to do this. That really bothers you. It really affects you in some way. It's so hard to imagine. I can't wrap my head around, and I want to talk more about the empathy thing too because I'm interested in that journey for you, but all the time I've been talking a lot on stage lately about I just can't imagine how miserable It must be to give a fuck about such stupid little things. Yeah, like the trans panic stuff I mean, there's so many different angles from which it doesn't make sense to me

But just the idea of sitting in your house and just stewing with anger all the time about like what if they compete in sports? It's like I just there's got to be room for some is there not a political movement in this country that could happen That just goes Everyone shut the fuck up and relax. Yeah, shut the fuck up and relax. Everything's not so bad Yeah, everything's there's the there's the very obvious things we need to fix rent is Unsustainably getting high people can't afford the rent. That's bad Yeah, but everything else all this dumb culture war stuff where they're like is the Bible in schools Is it not or trans people playing sports? Are they not I go? Let's just do rent and groceries and everybody on everything

else fucking relax. What's the problem? I don't get it. It really is to me, it's a fear of change and it's a fear of surprises. And I guess it's also a fear of discovering something about yourself maybe? It's like, apparently young men don't like the word partner to refer to a relationship. Young straight men. And obviously the reason is because somebody might think that you're gay. She's a girl, by the way.

Exactly, yeah. My partner, girl. It's too gender neutral. And I think it's that, but I do think that people that are that are super conservative The thing that they seem to want the most is for everything to be in a box This is what this is. This is what this is. There's absolutely no shades of anything It is just so you can understand the world. These are the rules of the world

Yeah, and I think it's just people being afraid to find out that there's not a whole lot of rules to the world. Yeah. It's a big chaotic thing. It's like, what do you expect? Do you know what I mean? It's a huge planet with all these fucking people on it. Like it's not, you want to reduce us to animal brains and it's just not true.

It won't work. It's just not true. We know too much. We know too much. We have buildings and shoes and shit. We know too much. We know too much. We have buildings and shoes and shit. You know what I mean? We also, there's a thing that has happened a lot that I've noticed in my own life with

like perfectly nice people that I grew up around that are genuinely, they were kind human beings and then they became very, very, most of them conservative. And the specific thing that I'm latching to about a lot of those folks that were like Genuinely kind and cool to be around and now we're kind of a nightmare is this like obsession with being like Yeah, everyone's soft everyone's soft. No, not me. I'm not soft. I'm hard. I know the hard truth I see through it all I'm like what when did it get so bad to be soft? I don't and I don't even, by the way, consider myself a particularly soft person, but I'm not going out and being like, fuck

softness. I'm like, I don't, what is that? I like soft people. They seem cool to me, you know? And also it gets into what does that mean to you? How do you define this and what is important about it and why is it so necessary for you to not be this. And why is it becoming your number one thing? If you told me your 50th thing in life was that you're not soft, I'd be like, okay. But when you go, my number one thing is that I am not soft,

I go, whoa, hey, Jesus. Hey, whoa. That's crazy, are you happy? Because I guarantee the answer is no. Why don't you just go to prison? Yeah. Are you accepting? Yeah. Why are you? What is going on?

Can I live here? Can I come in? Going to prison and asking, can I come in? The rest of the world is too soft for me. Yeah. These guys are soft. Can I come in? The empathy thing, though, what was the journey with that? Because learning empathy is not something

I've really thought about. It was therapy. It was. I was. I used to be a person, it's not like I'm not this completely anymore, but I was the kind of person that I was so raw inside that if I were, it was indicated to me that I'd done something wrong or didn't understand something, whatever. My number one priority was how can I make this somebody else's fault? It can't be my fault.

This has to be, look around, who can I blame for this? Someone must pay. Yeah, I can't, the last thing I can do is process this and learn something. And then I had a crush on a woman who did not have a crush on me and I was trying to live my life like it was a movie, and it turns out that the movies are fake.

And so this person was not going to come around and fall in love with me, and it destroyed our friendship. And I was so lost that I got to a point where I was like, I don't think that I can do this on my own, and it's time to talk to somebody. And then that, I lucked out, I got somebody who was great immediately.

And I was with this therapist for, I wanna say like 10 years, and it really absolutely changed my life and made me so, it got me so much closer to being the person that I would like to be. Yeah. You know, that I would like people to think of me as.

Yeah. And it's not that it's not a challenge and it's not that it's not, you know, I have plenty of bad days. I have a temper and I got, I have plenty of, I have depression and I take medication for it And you know, so I'm not I'm not like done, you know what I mean? But I there was a relief in realizing that I'm not done and that it's a lifelong thing

To become the person that you want to be. Yeah that it's not you're not gonna be like Oh, I learned my five lessons and I'm all set. Because you will, you age, things keep changing, your perspective on things keeps changing. That is one of the things that is, that I've come to really appreciate about aging, is the way I see the world, and I'm also glad that I'm getting softer as I get older. You know?

I care more about people, and I feel like I understand people more, and I'm more about protecting vulnerable people, more about, like, that's more important to me than going the other way, like, these kids today and all that shit. Like, it's good that playgrounds are safe. You know what I mean?

It wasn't good when I was a kid. It's good that we improved that. You know what I mean? It's like saying seat belts are stupid or whatever. I really feel like I am in a place now where I'm kind of, I'm happier with myself than I've been maybe ever. Where as much mental illness or whatever,

self-loathing that I can have, I really feel like I'm able to like myself the most I've ever liked myself. Like give myself grace and say like, hey man, you're doing the best you can, you're just a person. You know what I mean? Like you still fuck up sometimes, It's fine. Everybody does.

I think also, part of it is, there seems like there's maybe at least in parts of the culture, maybe a big part of the culture right now, an inability, even just you saying, like, I had strong feelings for a person that did not feel that way back to me. I destroyed the friendship by living in an alternate reality where that was going to change or whatever. Even you saying that is so huge and enlightened and good and necessary, and we need so much more of that from all of us. It feels like there's an inability right now in the culture for people to go, oof, that thing I said maybe even literally five minutes ago, I do not believe and I was

wrong. That thing I said maybe even literally five minutes ago. I do not believe and I was wrong We actually John Marco and I were talking about that in his episode earlier But the yeah, just the ability to go like we talked about on this show sometimes that sometimes I'll say something on the show A guest will say something and I'll immediately go. Yeah, I don't believe what I said will say something and I'll immediately go, yeah, I don't believe what I said. I was trying that on, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I was trying it on, oops. But I think why not? Why not just be like, yeah, we're fucking,

there's a million things going on at once. It's okay to have an idea or a behavior and not even just like a take in the moment on a podcast. Like, it's okay to live a couple months of your life really thinking that you're doing something correct and then go, oh, I was wrong, whoops. It's a, the astonishing thing for me was that I found out what a relief it was

to say, oh, I'm wrong and I'm sorry. Yeah. It's like, it was a huge weight off my shoulders than trying, than carrying it around and trying to, you know, reluctantly say like, I guess I see where you're coming from or whatever, rather than really try to see where the come from. I can see your perspective is that I did wrong and maybe there's validity. It's like, no, I see where you're coming from or whatever, rather than really try to see where they come from. I can see your perspective is that I did wrong

and maybe there's validity. It's like, no, I was wrong. I get why you say that. Yeah. But yeah, I was wrong and now I understand better. And it's like, how can you not see that as a win? To say, now I understand something I didn't understand before.

But it also is, we're so online poisoned that the only way people can point something out to someone is by Telling them they're a monster. Yeah, and it's like if you try to just say and the people that have done it with me It's fucking worked. Yeah, when people just talk to me calmly and say, you know, you might not have this information You might not know this but XYZ and I'm like Okay, thank you very much for telling me that. That makes sense. Yes, I get it now. This is some of the big conversations

that when my dad was alive that he and I had, because he was a bad parent, and I straight up would tell him that. You know, I was like, hey, you probably shouldn't have had kids. I think he was a cool guy. I was like, there are things I really like about you.

You're really smart. You're very funny. You have great taste in music. You are not good at being a parent. You know, and he knew that but he wanted me to punish him all the time He wanted he couldn't stand he was so guilty especially as I got like when I was an adult He was like me and I regret everything I did in your childhood pretty much and it almost it almost hurt him more that I wouldn't Punish him like that. I wouldn't be mad at him. I was like, I'm not mad at you, dude I just want you to do better for you and also

For you're currently blowing it like you're currently also still doing bad because you're sitting so much in this regret. Yeah. Because you're allowing yourself. It's like regret and remorse and like self pity. I don't actually want you to sit in that. I actually just want you to get better because we have other kids in our family that you could be better for. You could currently be better for me as your adult child. You could also just be happier for yourself, which would be great. But the inability, I think, that so many people,

obviously, particularly and especially men, just is the reality. And it's not to say that it's the only thing going on, but there is, at least in my lived experience, a lot more of this problem with men. And plenty of it with women, but a lot more with men. Just an inability to be like, oh, whoops, I fucked up, hate that.

It's wild how much that those kind of gender roles are still at play. As far as we've come, and that this year begins with a two, you know what I mean? Like, we're into the 21st century, and we're still, like, puzzling over this shit of, like, what it means to be a man or whatever,

and we're going backwards in a lot of senses. It's like, what's going on, man? Again, I think it's the fear of change and it's the fear of not having things in an orderly box of crayons where you can see it all laid out and say, this is what it is. And that just freaks some people out.

It also is just so uneven. You know, I spend, I think a lot about masculinity and manhood and like my role in all of that and like who I am, you know, and what I think about that. And like obviously the relationship I had with my dad and guys I grew up with and being gay in Missouri, like there's so many reasons that I'm interrogating masculinity all the time. And the thing I think that's so funny is that feminism as an idea now is becoming almost a bad word again. But it actually is for us as well. The proper application of it. When

it's applied improperly, and some woman goes viral on TikTok for being like, all men are lazy dogs or whatever, and then men go, this is just as bad as what we're doing, it's like, not quite. It's a pretty big gap between one woman being annoying online about making generalizations about men, and then the systemic constant terror that men instill in femme people, particularly women. It doesn't make any sense to me when I'm like, I feel so freed by feminism.

I feel so freed by the idea that actually, a lot of the bad impulses that I had when I was a teenager or a lot of the things about masculinity that I was doing, my hardheadedness, my inability to say that I was wrong, my dismissal of women's interests as uninteresting because they weren't interesting to me in that moment. And it's not to say I'm cured of any of that exactly but all those things when they weren't examined Were making my life worse and then when I did examine them and realized oh actually Society played a role in socializing me to feel and behave these ways Yeah, which is not to say I don't have responsibility and autonomy and willpower to change it

Feminism is the reason that I know that that I go actually society told me that these things are true And it's like given to us in the same way that it's given to women on the other side to discredit themselves. That was very freeing to me. That I was like, actually, I don't have to be like this. And the fact that I am like this is not only, it's a power from society that's hurting all of us.

I don't understand why that wouldn't be exciting to be like, oh, this is a bad thing that's happening to all of us and we can stop. Yeah, and also to feel like, oh, I'm in control of my own mind. I have agency. I don't have to think this. I don't have to... because it's so much more work. It's so much more work when you get that feeling of, somehow I know I'm going against the grain of my own personality because this has just been baked into me from when I was born. Like this is the society that I grew up in.

And then you sort of, when you get the tickle in your brain, like maybe I don't feel that way. Maybe I don't, this doesn't make sense to me. And you know, this actually sounds kind of bad maybe. And then you have now the freedom to explore that and understand why you feel that way. It's great. Yeah. Well, it's also funny that so much of the conversation right now is like, what is

the left's message for young men? I'm like, the left's message for young men should be the same as what it is for young women. If young men can't get on board with that, then we have a problem with young men. The message that I have for young men, it's not that we don't have, it's not that men and women don't sometimes have different interests or there aren't things that more generally apply to men than women and vice versa. Sure, those things are true. More generally, yeah, if you threw a dart eight times out of ten, it might strike the same interest for a young man and not a young woman. There are things that are different, of course, but they don't have to be. It doesn't always

look that way. And yeah, young men, when they say that so often, I just think they mean like, we need to be transphobic, or we need to be violent. And I'm like, I don't think that that, I think if you have a political movement that's talking about being nice to everyone, everyone being able to express themselves comfortably and safely, everyone being able to afford to live a decent and happy life, if that doesn't resonate with young men, then young men are the problem. And I don't know what to say about that at a certain point.

You know what I mean? And you can go, oh, well, we need to meet them where they are. I don't want to go where they are. I'm not interested. You couldn't get me to go over there with a knife. I think we know by now we can't meet people where they are in certain circumstances because... I can't go some of those places.

It's not good. Yeah. Yeah, there's just things I'm not... Yeah, there's... Obviously, it's like we have to have principles. It's like there's things I'm not going to do. If you're sincerely trying to get me to believe that all young men need you to be transphobic and misogynistic for them to get on board with like lower rent and better grocery prices,

then I guess we're going to be at an impasse until we're not, because I'm not gonna do that for you. That's not interesting to me. Or they say, oh, the left needs a Joe Rogan or whatever, I go, I don't think that we do. Nobody needs, the right doesn't need a Joe Rogan. Like, the last thing we need is more Joe Rogans of any kind. Yeah, I'm just like, I'm not good on that.

You don't think it's gonna be Gavin Dude Gavin this fucking guy take the fucking mics away fucking guy with his dumbass haircut Yeah, and his stupid little casual polos from a fucking Ralph Lauren Yeah, sitting there and having on didn't he do you have Steve Bannon on? Yeah, Steve Bannon Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk because his son was who's 13 or whatever was getting into this far-right stuff And he was wondering where yeah, so we're gonna plop solution is I'm gonna start a podcast Yeah, and talk to these guys immediately. Yeah, let them say whatever they want with no pushback anyone Charlie Charlie Kirk to me is only slightly different. I don't respect the guy or like his views

It's slightly different because he's a media personality, right? So if you're gonna have a media personality on your media show I think that's wrong But do your thing people having Steve Bannon on their shows who is a political operative who is actively with a smile on his face every day in the president's ear and on the news saying, we can imprison U.S. citizens who dissent, we can do a third term. Actively saying these things and then having the power to make it happen because he's in a government position, if you're having Steve Bannon on your show, you are a fucking hopeless brain-rotted moron.

I really think that. Yeah. First of all, beyond just the danger part of it, which is we don't need to be giving him any more air time to say that the election was stolen with right pushback But it's also I think we know what Steve Bannon has to say. Yeah, didn't we get it? It's there any fresh stuff. Yeah, also just why are we not talking anymore about the fact that that guy is just a failed screenwriter Who found another drift? That's all these guys every single one of them wanted to be successful in Hollywood, failed because they were talentless. And then they said, I think actually it's, I think it's black people that did this to me. I think actually the Third Reich would

have had my screenplay. And then they turned to fascism. It's like, you're a talentless, pathetic, ugly fucking loser. Nobody likes going to dinner with you. Nobody wants to fuck you. The only way that you can curry any kind of favor in this world is by being a fascistic fucking psychopath and now for some reason we have to listen to you it is a huge coalition of People who wanted certain groups of people to like them were Rejected by those groups and then found themselves loved by people they despise. And they're like, I guess I'll go with it.

I guess I'll go with it. That's what you look at this fucking- At least somebody's saying I love you. Yeah, it's an orphanage for losers. The right is an orphanage for losers. And it's why you look at their fucking, like you look at the crew they've put together. The backdrops behind Trump are like Kid Rock,

Elon Musk, and Elon Musk likes to act like, actually, I left the left? No, you didn't. No one was fucking with you. Everyone thought you were a weird bitch. And it's like Kid Rock, him, RFK, like fucking like Rob Schneider. Ha! Ha! Ha! Deuce Bigelow is your political surrogate? That's when it's time to look in the mirror. That's the American right? Is Deuce Bigelow is your political surrogate? That's when it's time to look in the mirror. That's the American right? Is Deuce Bigelow?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good fucking Lord. What a pathetic bleak. And they make fun of the left for having Beyonce at concerts. Hey, she's good. Yeah. Her music rocks and she's pretty. People like her.

Deuce Bigelow. Oh God. Her career is an ongoing concern. Yeah. Yeah. This episode of so true is brought to you by booking.com booking.com. Yeah. Every time I use booking.com, which is probably five or six times an hour to find a place to stay in the U S I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from vacations,

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so bad and they're such fucking dork ass losers. If any single one of them walked into, that's the real thing too, is they go, Oh, we're for the working people. If any one of you had to have dinner with the people, with anybody in Missouri, you'd get laughed out of every single room. I could go have dinner with a group of farmers. We'd have a nice time. We wouldn't agree on maybe much. But we'd have a nice time. These people are socially inept loser freaks that, again, I

can't stress this enough, nobody wanted to fuck. And so now we have to do concentration camps because they couldn't get a screenplay funded. Elon Musk is going to burn America to the ground because nobody thought he was funny. Yeah. Because nobody laughed. And because he needed surgeries to look handsome adjacent if you're not wearing your glasses and it's foggy.

You know how many surgeries he's had to look like a five? He's a five. This guy, he's going to ruin democracy because he was born a three. And then he put millions of dollars into becoming a five. He's a born three with dreams and delusions of being an eight. He knows deep down he knows deep down he's not getting to ten. So we've got a born three dreaming of eight landing at five. He's got an army of twos that we're calling Doge and now we don't get to have democracy anymore because the right girls didn't want to sleep with him.

This is fucking insane. And yet I persist. And yet I show up to Head Gum Studios once a week and put out my little podcast. I don't get it, dude. I really don't get it. It's wild that we are the people that are here for this. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm not alive at the right time.

Yeah. There was so little history being made when I was younger. It's hardly anything. I should have been an adult for that. Hardly anything. Now it's all history all the time. Do you know, I feel that every single year of my life has been bad history. Yeah, I think that's true.

I was six when 9-11 happened and everything since then has been not great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about it, I can mark every single chapter of my life by a different group of people going, oh, it was 9-11 and then it was the economic crash of 2008 and then it was Trump's first election and then it was more recessions and then it was COVID and then it was a historic writer's strike, historic actor's strike.

Every single part of my life I can go, another bad history. Yeah, when I was a baby, Watergate, then pretty quiet until like the Challenger It was Watergate chill mode, yeah Challenger chill mode exactly. Yeah, which presidency won. Yeah Everyone was kind of like we'll be fine Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good lord. What's making you happy? What's exciting you? What are you looking forward to? Et cetera, et cetera. I am looking forward to getting back out on the road. I feel that there is still that vibe post-quarantine, where people are still very grateful for live performance.

I think so. And it feels really good. And it's really exciting. I really am enjoying being creative in stand-up again, because I took like a long break from stand-up, and it's been nice and humbling to get back into crafting material. Because man, oh man, I really forgot, like...

I forgot the vibe of doing somebody else's show and doing, like, a little chunk of material and having it be met with, heh-heh. Well, you don't get that. You also don't get that. Doing someone else's show when you haven't done Stand Up in a While is so humbling because you got, like, seven to 12 minutes to kill or die. Yeah.

And you don't get that on-ramp, off-ramp. Exactly. Of your own show where you're figuring it out and you're getting into the good Yeah. And you don't get that on-ramp, off-ramp. Exactly. Of your own show, where you're figuring it out, and you're getting into the good stuff. Yeah. It's like, you're either doing well or you're not, and that's your night. Yeah.

That sucks. It feels bad. When you haven't done it for a while, yikes. And you walk away. And of course, it's like, I'm thinking, if anyone here in this audience knows who I am, they're thinking, oh, he doesn't have it anymore. Yeah.

I don't know. I guess it happens to everybody. Yeah. He doesn't have it anymore. Oh, it's too. What happened to him? No, he used to be great. He used to be. That's, that's also my inner talk. Even when, even in my self talk, when I imagine someone insulting me, I still find a way to bake in a compliment. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, when, when I'm like, when I'm like, when I'm imagining my detractors, I'm like, this is my, in my head,

people criticize me by going like, I gotta admit, he's a nice enough guy. But he wasn't funny tonight. That's like the furthest I can take myself. That's very unbranded. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, hey, I'm not saying he's not a nice guy, but he's ugly as fuck.

You know, like, there's always, I always am able to build in some kind of buffer there. I think that's smart. Yeah. I think that's smart. Yeah. I think that's smart. Like, even my biggest critics are in touch with the reality that I'm cool. That's what my brain is able to do.

God. For me, it is like the scariest thing to me is, I mean, it's funny, but so what? You know what I mean? Just like, he's pleasant enough. Well, that's so scary because it's like, oh, the one thing I was counting on, like I've built my whole life around being good at this.

This is all I have. And for them to be like, oh no, he achieved it, I still don't care. Yeah, I've made this my identity. Made this my identity, my life's calling. Yeah. That's worse than saying I didn't achieve it because then I can just count you up to being stupid or

Yeah, we're not a good thinker. No, I said he does. Okay. Yeah, he's funny. Just what is it? What does it amount to? Yikes He's funny a lot of people are a lot of things yeah, I mean I work with guys are funny yeah, dude That just in a chill in my whole body. That just sent a chill through my whole body. Woo! That's tough. But it's going well. You're feeling good about the material now? You're like feeling better about it? I'm feeling better about it, yeah. I'm almost at the point where I gotta cobble together an hour and like run it at the Elysian or something and with everybody understanding that this is extremely rough. People like that. Into lower. I think they do like that. Yeah. I think they do like that. Into lower, I think they do like that.

I think they do like that. I really enjoy, I mean, I enjoy that. I enjoy seeing other people work stuff out. And, you know, I like, it's nice to have the knowledge of what goes into it when you watch other people do it. You know what I mean? Like I like, I love, I love craft and I love when things are being put together.

Stand up is perhaps the least enjoyable way to do it but things like if you're in a play or writing a song or something like that, I love the whole experience of that, of it being rough and then it's, that moment where it tips and you start to feel it come together, and you're like, this is gonna be so much fun. This is gonna be great.

And then when you finally get to do it, you feel the pleasant weight of that whole journey, and the payoff is that much more because you remember, you have it in your bones now of like, this was really scary at first and it really sucked and now I'm having such a wonderful time. And now if I go up and say these words in this order and hold the mic this far from my face at this moment,

if I do everything exactly the way I'm supposed to, there is a 99.9% chance it will get the laughs. I love that shit so much. When you have the timing of things like that Yeah, oh god. I love that so much and when you understand the mechanics of why it works Yeah, I'll try material for for a while and be like I don't really know why that part's getting a laugh and then I'll one night I won't get a laugh and I'll realize the thing I did different and I'll be like Oh, it's getting a laugh because I lowered my voice a little bit on that one syllable

Yeah, the whole the whole laugh in that part of it, that whole tag or that whole setup working. Yeah. Even we have a sketch on our current tour, like a video sketch. It was doing fine the first couple cities, and then I realized if I just set it up a tiny bit differently, it killed. Exactly. There was like a permission that needed to be given. Yes. That stuff is so interesting.

The last tour, I had a video that was introducing, reintroducing the band onto the stage, like saying everybody's name and what they played and everything. And it was this video that I got from, I have a nature cam in my house and I have a little picnic bench for squirrels. And then sometimes the squirrels leave some hazelnuts in there. Then the night people come around. The night people are possums and raccoons. And so I had this great video, black and white,

with the glowing eyes of a possum eating. And he was moving his mouth such, and I was like, I'm going to make this talking. And so I had him introduce the members of the band. Of course. With like a little high-pitched voice. And it was never really, people are just kind of like huh and then one night his name is Gabriel the possum and then he has like a little

graphic that comes like Gabriel the possum this is like the end of the tour I'm setting up the video and I said how many Gabriel the possum fans we have out here and then nobody says anything I'm like I don't think I heard right how many Gabriel the possum fans we have a couple says anything. I'm like, I don't think I heard right. How many Gabriel the Possum fans we have here? Couple people clap. And I'm like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. And I'm screaming, how many Gabriel the Possum fans we have out here?

Everybody goes nuts. Roll that video. And then it destroyed. You gaslit these people. It gaslit them, yeah. You gaslit these fine folks. That is so funny. It was like that realization, I'm sorry I came to it so late, but I was like, oh yeah,

they need some sort of context for this, even if it's a made up context. Yeah, if I invent context and force it upon you. There's also then there's the part of, so there's the, to me it's a bell curve of horror trying new material. There's the horror of starting when it sucks. Then there's the gradual incline excitement of it starting to work. Then there's that perfect, beautiful top of the bell

that's like, it's working so great, it's hitting every night, I know what the material is, I know why they're laughing, I know why I like it, I know what I think I'm saying about this. And then there's the come down where it's like, this is so in my bones and so reliable that I feel like a hack, and I never want to say this sentence again.

And that's the other side of it, where I'm like, now I hate this joke. It's worked so many times in so many rooms that now saying it feels like I'm cheating. It feels like somebody else's joke now. Yeah, and it feels like I'm lying to you. Because the whole part of the whole point is to make it look effortless. And it's like so much effort and so much research and so much data has gone into you laughing right now that I feel I feel gross. Yeah. I feel like I just jerked

off in front of everybody or something. I was so you didn't though, right? No. Okay. Not most shows. It just depends. There's tier levels to the tickets. Oh, that makes sense. Some cities people pay extra and I'll jerk off on stage. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. People like it. It's fun. Yeah. It's fun to have an experience like that. Yeah, and it's teared by seats too because of course you have the splash Yeah, oh they don't wear ponchos Paul people take their ponchos off in the splash zone We're punch of the whole show Sweating They take him off.

I was talking to a friend of mine who's an actor, capital A actor, about doing like a long run of a play. And I was like, that must seem, that seems very hard to me to be able to say the exact same stuff every night and keep it alive, keep it fresh. And he said, well, you do that with standup kind of, right? And I realized, yeah, that is true.

The best is when you can go to the place of what made it funny to you in the first place, and you can feel that feeling. It's weird to have, it's like a little voice in your head that's like, this is funny. Yeah, this is funny. Yeah. Yeah, this is funny Yeah, you know what you know what or finding you have to find little ways to make it interesting to you again Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to have for me. I have to have little little chunks where I'm like, that's your freestyle space Yeah, every you did all the stuff that needed to do for the joke to happen

Now you can add tags if you want you can play around you can set this up differently. Yeah, but every night on stage I'm improvising at least a little bit. Mm-hmm. That's the only thing that makes it feel alive to me. If I had to go out and do just my set and never remark on anything in the room, I would be like, this is horrible. Yeah, play is, I don't know, play would be tough. I would like to do it. I've never done, like I did plays in high school.

To me, the tough thing about play is the responsibility to others. I like being on stage by myself and knowing that I'm only responsible to me. If the show sucks, it's my fault. If the show's great, it's my fault. I'm technically responsible to the audience and they're having a good time, but even still it's not a guarantee. It's a live show.

I like being on stage alone. It's funny because when I started an improv, being on stage alone would feel horrifying to me. I didn't ever want to get on stage alone. I liked the community of it. I liked having everyone in it together. And now it's the opposite. I feel horrified. But now you did, you started with improv

and then got into standup, right? Yeah, I mean, I was always, I had done standup a number of times before I really got into improv, but I pretty much abandoned standup for several years and just focused on improv and then came back to stand up because really once things started taking off, I was like, you need to have a solo art form again. It was kind of out of necessity. And then I fell back in love with it and was like, Oh my God, I can't believe I wasn't doing this the whole time.

Yeah. Y'all hacks is back for season four streaming exclusively on Max. And so is the official hacks podcast, a podcast for Hacks? Yeah it's called So True. Not having gotten to see much of the new season up to now, but some of my favorite comedies of the last few years like The Righteous Gemstones, our HBO shows streaming on Max and so I'm excited to catch up on Hacks now that season 4 is on its way. Now as I said before, not only are we getting season four of hacks starting the incomparable gene smart legend We are also getting a new season of the official hacks podcast

This is a really cool thing HBO does to go above and beyond for fans of their shows where they release a companion podcast Alongside their groundbreaking series to get fans a closer look at their favorite show In each episode hosts Bobby finger and Lindsey Weber will speak with the creators, cast, and crew members to unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. Emmy-winning, I know that's right. Shout out Hannah. Hear stories from the set, get a peek into the writers room, and break down the complicated dynamic between Debra and Ava. Guests on the podcast will include Hannah Iambinder. Shout out. Show creators Lachia Nielo. Love. Paul W. Downs and Jen Statski. Love, love. Along with other members of the cast and crew who talk about the creative choices that

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Like you made that happen. And it happened, it's satisfying. Because it's like, this is what I wanted to happen and it actually fucking happened. And I made it happen. And I worked hard to make it happen. It's so satisfying. But-

Can I also just say really quick? To me, it's not, the glory, yes, but even more than the glory, it's the absence of anxiety Yeah, I don't have any anxiety when I step off a stage regardless of how I did if I was up there alone I don't have any anxiety about what I did to or for my Scene partners right I love stepping off and because when I would do improv so often I would leave the stage and be like fuck did I steamroll did I give enough gifts that I set that up did I trample that Did I when they lobbed that up did I slam it the way they wanted

to? There was so much anxiety about what, like, if you and I had done a scene that I'd be like, is Paul happy with me? You know? And now when I leave stage alone, I have no anxiety because there was no one that I could have wronged. Either the audience had a good time or they didn't and I can handle that, but I don't have to look at a collaborator and be like are you happy with me right and and trust them to say yes Or no, I guess it is easier to know when you're by yourself if you have tried your best Yeah, but with other people it can get like There's so much that takes over. Well, there's so much there's so much that's really around your brain when you're doing improv That it is hard to monitor sometimes,

am I doing the best I can? I think it helped me that I got to it so late that I was much more my own person when I started doing it. Improver stand up. Yeah, improv. And so I was thrilled to be learning a new thing, but also had enough experience,

performing experience under my belt, that I was like, okay, I know that I can learn this and I know that I can be generous because I do like to work with other people. That said, I bet there's probably times I walked offstage where people were like, that fucking asshole. Old steamroll F. Tompkins over there. Couldn't be a normal guy for two seconds

so I could have some fun. Yeah. But you know, but the great thing about improv for me was it taught me how to let go of shit, which I couldn't do before. And stand up should teach you that, but for me it didn't. For me it didn't. I would dwell on things, and if it didn't go well,

I would really take that personally and really try to figure out what did I do wrong. And I would immediately go to a place like, well, it's over for me, I guess. I had a good run. I'm cooked. It's over. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't like that. But I got to a point where it took...

It was a huge thing for me to get to a point where I could laugh if I bombed. Where I could walk up stage and be like, that was actually really funny. I ate it so hard. I did a show at the Melbourne Comedy Festival, which was great because I got to do, I'd never done a festival like that before

where I got to do the same set night after night after night and got it so down and I was so happy with it. But it's one of those things where one night I showed up, there were six people there and you have to do the show, you know, and these people sat there in my memory, all of them had their arms folded. And what I did was I brought over a stool and I sat down and I just made it slightly more conversational and just went through that whole hour, not a single laugh, and I just acted like I was talking.

Yeah. And then, like, while it was happening, I was like, this is pretty funny. Yeah. This is pretty funny. I had that during, I did a college gig once in a town where a blizzard had rolled through and already college gigs I don't I know I won't do stand-up at colleges anymore

I'll do Q&A is but I will not do stand-up because half the time they won't come there's a better off-campus party than your show They did the the marketing team at the it's run by drug-addled teenagers So they did they put one poster in the PSU or whatever like Like they didn't, they didn't, it's not good. And I did, this is a couple years ago, but I did, there was a blizzard and no one came. They had me in a, first of all, they had me in a 2000 seat auditorium. And at that point, I don't think I would agree to that now. And I have a much bigger career now than I did then. I don't know why they would have done it then. I did not have the career I have now. I should have never been in a room that size.

They should have at least turned off the back row of lights. You know what I mean? Huge auditorium, and it was so, so bad. Like, maybe 40 kids showed up. And that's like, I think 20 of them were like on the council that brought me. So I'd say probably five of them were mega fans of mine, and the others were forced contractually somehow.

And I just, I got laughs, but the whole time I was doing the hour I was like, this is horrible. You are not having fun. It is hilarious. You will never do one of these again. While I was doing it, I'm not kidding, there was a certain point during the hour that I just started thinking about how I was going to spend the money. Because the pay is good. I was like, man, when you're walking around in those new shoes, I was so disconnected from the experience. Yeah, those are tough ones. Good Lord. I hate those. I think though, improv is the best thing that ever happened to me as a human being. Learning improv the skill changed my life so massively, and it's cornball and it's whatever, but I

would recommend to any human being living on earth, that if you have the opportunity to go and train improv for a little while, and really let it seep into you and really buy in, which is of course how cults talk, that I would just really try it, because it genuinely did. I met the coolest people, I met both of how cults talk, that I would just really try it because it genuinely did. I met the coolest people. I met both of these people through improv. I met most of my closest friends through improv. And when I'm around somebody who's taken improv training and really done it for a couple of years, dinner is better. Problems are better. Life is just better because you get so good at just like going with the flow and learning

how to be in a group and it just, I don't know, it's the best, it's the most important thing I've ever learned probably. And listening, yeah. My favorite thing is, favorite thing in the world is a small dinner party where everyone's having the same conversation. You know what I mean? Everyone's involved. Nothing fucking drives me crazier than if I'm in a group of people and somebody sees me listening and they assume that means I'm open for them.

Yeah. It's like, well, I'm not waiting for you. I'm listening to her. I'm trying, yes. Shut up. I'm interested in this. Why do you just assume? Yeah.

Like, it's so weird. And then it's never, never has it ever happened where it was something that I wanted to hear. Yeah, it do you why you just assume? Yeah. Like it's so weird. Yeah. And then it's never never has it ever happened where it was something that I wanted to hear. Yeah, it's better over. Yeah. Yeah. Also recall, I can't I can't tell you the number I've trained a muscle of remembering shit because you have to do a good improv. You have to remember something that happened eight scenes ago or whatever. And it sounds silly, but I can't tell you the number of times that my or whatever and it sounds silly, but I can't tell you the number of times that my a Platonic or professional or romantic relationship in my life has visibly markably

Markedly improved because I remembered some shit that was hard to remember Yeah, that someone just you know offhand in a conversation goes Oh, I love this kind of flower or whatever and then three months later, you know, you send them that flower Yeah, it's nice or you that you remember that they like that snack. Like recall, listening and remembering. What two things could you imagine are more important to being an enjoyable person to be around? People love it when you do that, and I love it when somebody does it for me. If somebody's like, I saw this and I thought of you.

That means so much to me. Isn't that wonderful that somebody thought of you? Like they were reminded of you because they saw this fucking dumb thing that might even be three things removed from the thing that actually you had anything to do with. But it's like, this got me thinking and I thought of you and I just wanted to say hi. Like bring it. I love it. My friend's dad, one of my best friends, her name's Ali. I've known her since we were 14 years old. Her dad has one of these things

with me, but it's still really sweet because I did a show once with Brett Goldstein, and I know Brett. Brett's around. But somehow, that information from Instagram, it's like Largo posted us together or something, manifested in my friend's dad's head, and he's the coolest, I love this guy. Shout out Roger. But Roger, somehow it manifested in his head that I'm a huge Ted Lasso fan. I've never seen it, I like people that are in it. But now he'll call her and just be like,

I saw this Ted Lasso notebook, should I get it for Caleb? And every time it warms my heart, I don't want it, but every time it warms my heart in a way that is indescribable. Absolutely. Because he thinks I'm a fan of Ted Lasso. Yes. And he wants to get it from me. Yes.

I am not, and I don't want it. But it just means the world to me that he has latched onto something. 1000%. That's the best thing. Yeah. That's the best thing. Yeah. That's the best thing ever. Yeah. I've learned that it's very important to do that.

When it occurs to you, when you're thinking of something like that, it's very important to immediately say, hey, I just thought of you. Because it's never been easier to do. You know what I mean? You don't have to get out the fucking parchment in a quill. You can just text somebody that you haven't spoken to in a year or something. You haven't seen them and just say, I saw this today, I thought of you, you know, I hope you're doing well, whatever. It's so gratifying to be on either end of it. It's so nice.

Yeah. Paul, what's so true to you? Well, speaking of nice, I think there's more good people than there are bad people. I've been saying this. I really do. Say more. I really do. I think that as much as there are people that want to make life miserable for other people, I think there's too many of us for them to ultimately succeed.

And I think that people care about each other more than we give ourselves credit for. And I think, especially like going through the fires here, it is one of those things where you become proud of a place that you live in. You say people are looking out for each other, people give a shit, people really care, has nothing to do with them, has nothing. Just instant sympathy and empathy. There's a thing that takes over where we get outside ourselves and we can see ourselves as a community.

And it's a really wonderful thing. And I think that's actually our default. As much as there's so much shit in this world that is trying to make that not our default, I still think our default is that we look out for each other and we care about each other Yeah, I think most people I have been I have been saying this repeatedly lately because so we talk a lot There's a lot of talk lately about hopelessness and what what is and is not possible, and I don't know I have no answers I'm just a guy. Yeah who for some reason has a little microphone. But I think that most people are good.

Most people are good. And I understand. Like, look, what I don't understand is when I say that and people are so dead set on proving me wrong, so many people would go, well, you have money, or you're a white guy. And I go, totally. There's not an ounce of me that wants to refute that.

I know my position in the world. I'm perfectly aware of my privileges. I've thought about them, I'm thinking about them all the time, I promise you, I'm on team, I'm on team, everyone should get treated the way that the good parts of me get treated. But I, it completely, it's not beside the point, it totally affects maybe a sample size

of what I'm talking about, but I'm also a fat person, and I'm also a gay person. None of these refute each other, but I'm saying we all move through the world with things and I am convinced, at least in my own personal experience, most people are good. Most people are nice. Because that's not negating the idea that there are bad people in the world, because there are. It's also not negating the people that certain people have an easier life than others based on things about them. Absolutely. My life is totally better now that I have money. My life sucked when I was poor. Nobody will tell you that quicker than I will.

And I'm not rich now, but I have money. I can afford my bills. I can travel and see my friends and stuff. Nobody knows that better than I do. I promise you I lived it. I just think most of the time when you go to a gas station and you chat with the person working, most of the time from everyone I know, everything I've seen, most of the time, when you go to a gas station, and you chat with the person working, most of the time, from everyone I know,

everything I've seen, most of the time it's like, hey, hope you have a really good day. That's how it is. Mostly we want to be nice to each other, and there are a bunch of forces that are making us, there are a bunch of forces that make people not wanna do that. There are a bunch of people that have been so far removed

from regular life that are making the decisions that they have become they forgotten what it is to be around people and so they don't care about the rest of us anymore. But I think most people are nice and I think most people are good and that's why I think you're right. That's why I think that the evil bad people cannot win. Yeah. Overall, they're getting some gains for sure. For sure.

They've had a couple W's lately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are battles going in their favor Yeah, but the war yeah the overall struggle towards are we gonna be nice good happy people who treat each other well Or are we gonna be evil selfish self-centered sycophantic freaks that are mean to everyone who's different than us Yeah, I feel better about our side. Yeah, I like our side of it Yeah, I think also a thing in our favor is that the people It's it's the people that are, the

bad people that are in charge right now are all incompetent and stupid. And they're not going to be able to do as much damage. They're going to do a lot of damage. They're not going to be able to do as much permanent damage as they think they're going to do because they don't know what the fuck they're doing. And thank God, but I don't think it's going to go, I don't see the purpose in're doing, you know? And thank God, you know, but I don't think it's gonna go, I don't see the purpose in just reveling in the doom of it all, and even like online,

I got to a place where it's like, I don't wanna just repost shit that's like, here's another horrible thing that's happening. And if I'm gonna share somebody else's message, it's gonna be, here's somebody who's fighting back, here's somebody who's doing a different thing, here's somebody who has courage in the face of this, here's somebody who's not acknowledging

that this dumb shit is real. I just want us all to realize that there is, I mean, I don't know if we have time to get into the revolution. I don't know how long the studio lights stay on. People are getting pushed, people are getting pushed, and I also think that we're on the cusp of things being so bad that I think some of, I don't think we can go back to doing things the old way.

I think we can go back to doing things the old way. I think we can go back to doing things being so bad that I think some of, I don't think we can go back to doing things the old way. And I don't know how that's going to manifest itself, but you know, it'll be, let me just say will be wild. I think you're right. I think we're past the point of no return on a lot of stuff and now we need to find a new way to do life.

I think even, I get inspired by so many things, but even ... I mean, I talk about the Tenant Union in Kansas City all the time. Obviously, that's my favorite thing. It's one of the only things. It is the source of my hope. It is the reason I feel politically hopeful right now, even though I would totally hear the argument of so many people that are like, no, I'm hopeless. It is the source of my hope, because I know what's possible, and I believe in the people who are working in the Tenant Union in Kansas City so intensely. And if they're telling me a better world is possible, I believe them. And even when eggs were fucking... I mean, I think they're still expensive, but the price

of eggs being through the roof. Tenant Union in Kansas City bought eggs directly from a farmer and sold them at cost at their meetings like And if you couldn't afford it, I think there was like an option to just take some but like Stuff like that where I'm like that is a real practical everyday solution that no one in the government can figure out Yeah, but our neighbors figured it out for each other. Yeah, that's what I believe in and I didn't have to involve the government No fuck. Yeah, it's like we're gonna have that's the thing is we're gonna have to Yes, the government is a thing that I would love to figure out how left, progressive, bleeding heart, you know, whatever sissy liberals like me, I would love if we could figure out a way to get more people on board with our message because I think it's a better world for all of us.

Yeah. But yeah, we're going to have to do a lot of it for ourselves. Yeah. It's funny. I think about, I think about Catholicism a lot. Were you raised Catholic? No, but I think that they were like, Catholics were on the cutting edge of social good. They were opening fucking houses for the unhoused.

They were feeding the, Catholics had a real strong stake in social justice. And now a lot of these right-wing religious movements have devolved into like, boys can't wear skirts. It's like, what? That's where you guys landed? What happened to the feeding the poor thing? We actually hate the unhoused. Yeah, we're over that.

Yeah, the unhoused topic is where you can find a whole bunch of people who are otherwise liberal telling the truth. Oh man, I So many people that I was like, oh Okay, couple tents pop up on the sidewalk and things change quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also love a lot of people They're like, oh sure you live in wherever you live. You don't have to deal with it's like I live in America There's camps all over my neighborhood. Yeah all over the place.. If you live in Bel Air, maybe, but if you don't, there's no part of a major city that

is untouched by this. So I don't want to hear about how hard it is for you. I've also seen this really funny line of conservative reasoning lately, this argument, this really racist fucked up thing they're saying lately, the new one, where they're like, pretty much all of American life is just seeing how far you can get away from major cities because of diversity and integration. They're basically saying because we integrated, now everyone's fleeing the cities. I'm like, more people live in major cities in this country than don't. If we had a true democracy and we just voted based on everybody's individual vote, your guy would never see the inside

of another government building for at least 400 years. So I don't understand that. When they're like, oh, everyone's out of the cities, I'm like, no, actually most people are going to the cities. Yeah, and they also can't tell the truth is that if anyone's leaving the cities because they can't afford it. Right. Because of you.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if we were in charge, everything would be fixed, I think. It's so true. It's so true. I really do. Virginia's obsessed with this one clip of the podcast where we're talking about hope. And I go, can I just say, I feel more hopeful than ever. And the chance goes, someone goes, really? And I go, I really do. And the way I say it, Virginia brings it up five times a day on tour. She loves it. Paul, guess what?

What? I have a segment for you. Oh, shit. Yeah, brother. You didn't think you were going to have to lock in, but guess what? I forgot. I forgot. You know what's so funny? When we started kind of concepting this podcast a little over a year ago, this segment was kind of a throwaway idea of like, oh, maybe we'll do that a couple of times. Now we've learned on the live tour. It is Everybody's favorite thing on the live tour. We set up to do the true false people start screaming

They know the setup. Yeah, they're they love the true false It you can't listen to it and not get invested in it because you're trying to you're trying to answer along you want to play Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's very yeah, I I This kind of thing. It's also I don't I'm not looking at this? Don't look at this. I don't, I'm not looking at it. I never think of myself as a competitive person until I do something like this.

Yeah, and then you're like, oh. And then it's like, I have to be good at this. I'm dark-sided, yeah. Fucking after midnight, I lost on after midnight. That's humiliating. It's humiliating, it's fake, and it feels bad. Bob the Drag Queen called me a boomer And I think he really thought that I think he really thought

Bob the drag queen called me a boomer. Yeah That is so goddamn fun I would you know what I was in a hotel room with Matteo Lane and Nick Smith recently in Charlotte and they called Bob to chit chat and they go, we're here with Caleb. And Bob goes, Caleb who? Caleb who? There's not a million of us. From the Bible? In our circle?

Oh, it hurt deeply. But we're trying to have Bob back on the show. So we'll address that when they come back. When she come back. When she comes back. Are you ready? Yes. True or false?

I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said is true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, Paul, we're going to give you $50 US dollars. Mountain lions can whistle. False. True. UPS stands for United Package Service.

False. False. United Parcel Service. The Toys R Us Giraffe's first name is Jeffrey. True. True. The first zoo in the United States was in Boston false false it was Philadelphia jingle bells was originally written for New Year's Eve True false Thanksgiving jellyfish can clone themselves

True true the first anchorman movie came out in 2006 false false was 2004 spiders cannot regrow lost legs False false they can temple universities mascot is long fellow the owl Mmm true false. What's his name hooter? Hooter are you fucking kidding me? Hooter teow hooter teow the word utopia comes from a Greek word meaning no place true That is true H. John Benjamin is six feet tall no place true that is true h John Benjamin is six feet tall it snows metal on Venus false it's true ocean algae produces seventy five percent of the earth's oxygen true true Bishop McDevitt high school's newspaper was called the realm false it was the Royal, the realm was the yearbook. Sarah Michelle Geller has a black

belt in taekwondo. True. That is true. How do you do? Oh, what? Oh, that was a master class. I'll take that. I'll take a master class in being locked in. Oh lot of our guests they dilly dally paul. They're dilly dallyers You can't dilly dally you need to lock in you need to lock in and I make it so clear in the setup Yeah, you get mentally ill gay people in here And they're all over the goddamn map we needed a boomer To come and lock in it only hurts 90% ideologically. The other 10% is pure age. Yeah, that's just, that's that.

You think so? You thought? That is so funny. I did have a moment when you said, Watergate and the challenge are exploding. I said, oh boy. You're like trying to do some math. I said, hold on, where are we at? I said, when did those happen? I'm bad at dates

So maybe I'm like Bob Bob the drag queen called me a boomer is one of the funniest. I don't know why that cracks me up so hard It's hard to say it is hard to say well, it's been an absolute delight Paul It's been a delight on my end. Is there anything that you want to tell the people where they can find you, where they can buy tickets, et cetera? Go to paulfthompkins.com slash varietopia and come out and see us on tour. And also, I'm proud to say that the tickets are very reasonably priced.

Yeah. We try to keep it low for the people. We want to bring entertainment to the people. That's actually huge because, you know, I will say artists, we get an opportunity to talk, we get it to be in conversations about ticket pricing. We also get to be in conversations about merch sizes. And if you are selling merch, I am begging you to tell your merch provider today, join me now in this fight. Please tell your merch provider you want five and six X shirts. You want three, four, five and five and six stop stopping at two get the fat people some love and

Also, keep your ticket prices low when you can that's beautiful work. We kept it at three 3x yeah, that's better. We had a ton left over. I would love three X's Yeah, I know that's what happens a pre-order can help too That's the thing is I'm asking anybody who does merch if you're worried about that if you're like oh fuck We're gonna make all these and they'll be left over do a pre-order. If you're already doing a pre-order, you can put the extra sizes on there. And it will only come, you will only make the amount that you need. There you go. And then the rest you can give to unhoused people to use as sheets and blankets.

There's so much material. I sent them to those kids in Africa who have the alternate universe World Series winner t-shirts. Let them wear a 5X varietopia shirt. What's it going to hurt? Send you with a belt. Let a couple of them huddle up under that thing. Yes. Send it to Estonia and let those kids hide under there. With my compliments.

With my compliments. We love you. Thanks for being on. Thank you.