So True with Caleb Hearon - Punkie Johnson Fell in a Hole

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Punkie Johnson! Punkie and Caleb talk growing up in New Orleans, various styles of flirting, favorite moments from SNL, a certain childhood game, cooking, and much more! Join our Substack for an exclusive post-episode chat with Punkie and other bonus content!  https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Punkie! @punkiejohnson  Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloudTransform your living space today with Cozey. Visit http://www.Cozey.com, the home of possibilities, made easy. Upgrade your underwear drawer with tomboyx. Use code SOTRUE15 to get 15% off your order at http://www.tomboyx.com/discount/SOTRUE15 Ready to give MASA a try? Go to http://www.MASAChips.com/SOTRUE and use code SOTRUE for 25% off your first order.Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/SOTRUE10 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount Listeners can save 30% on their first order at Cornbread Hemp! Just head to http://www.cornbreadhemp.com/SOTRUE and use code SOTRUE at checkout. Go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/SOTRUE to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. #sponsored About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan. So True is engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I liked it. I was like, no worries. All the boys want to jump on me? That's not a problem. I like that. That's the problem. The boys wanted to smear me. Yeah, if the girls were smearing me, I'd be pissed.

But yeah, last time I saw you was on Alex Inglish's show, and you were lit that night. I... I shouldn't do anything with Alex English. You were lit, punky. You know what? Me and Alex, we are a very dangerous combination. Yeah. We are...

We're not even a ying and a yang. We like the yang and a yang. We are too much of the same person in public. I cannot be around Alex without getting into some type of trouble or being dead the very next day. I don't even remember, Allie. Was that the show when we go sit on the stage and we talk about what's on the screen or something? Yes, you were sitting on the stage talking about what's on the screen. I was there with Marie, and we were laughing so hard because at one point, you were pretty drunk at this point in the show in a very fun way.

And who were you up there? You were up there with Zeeway and someone else. Yeah, it was Zeeway. You went off about how much you love the American flag. You were like, fuck the pride flag. We already have a pride flag. It's called the American fight. And Alex was like, Alex was like, punky, punky, punky, and you were going off.

No wonder why I was getting hate mail from Black Lives in Mexico. It was cracking me up, dude. Well, because I love America. Yeah. Sometimes I get really upset with all the things that's going on in America. But I really love this country. This is land of the free home or the brave. Yeah.

That's how I try to still live by it. Yeah. You're from New Orleans. From New Orleans, Louisiana. Yeah. And just to piggyback, just to backtrack to Alex one time. I just wanted to let the world know. Get him back in here, yeah.

I just want to let the world know that Alex took me out one time. I went to Los Angeles. And Alex took me out, and he kept saying stuff. Like, I'm going to show you how real man do things. As he walking like this, he was watching his back. Hey, girls. He held my hand the whole night. Yeah.

Bought me drinks. And you know what? You know what I realized? I have not, I was, you know, I was married for 20 years, and then I got divorced. And then I kind of played a little bit, but I never really went on the gay scene. I kind of just met women, however, I met him, grocery store, bank, whatever. And I went to the gay club with him. And I really never really noticed how gay men just be being gay.

What do you mean? Gay men is gay as fuck. They all just be dancing with each other. They just go home with each other. It is like such a fast connection. Yeah. Alex was macking. Yeah, of course.

He's gorgeous. I was like, Alex. Beautiful, charming. Everybody wanted him. They was just all over him. And it was like, some guys confused me because they'll be like the biggest thug or the thug. And Alex was just basically like, top them. And I'll be at the bar like, what the fuck is going on in this club?

It was insane because with girls, we're just so different. I didn't realize how different we were. It's just like, we go up. We go up, hi, how you doing? Let's get to know what you. Maybe we exchanged numbers. We're not all over each other like that from person to person to person. Yeah.

You know, it's very rare. I haven't had that many one-night stands in my life, but I think gay men have a bunch. Oh, for sure. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. Yeah. I've had like maybe two or three. Really?

Yeah. Because I kind of thought you were playing around a little more than that. Well, you know what? Also, I'm a woman. So, I mean, like, I am Butch, but I like a little bit more of a deeper connection. You know what I'm saying? When I have sex, I'm not. I'll be, I be for real.

Yeah. I can't give, I'll be in it, boy. I can't be for real with some random woman, you know? Like, even if I get to know a woman for like a week or two. And if I establish a nice, strong connection, she's going to get the business. Yeah, I know that's right. The business. You're going to get the punky treatment, guarantee, the punky guarantee.

Listen, and y'all send you out with a little care package. I love that. I'm so heavy to hear. that for these girls. Hey, and you know, I'm a gentle woman too, so I'm very gentle and like, I could get crazy though. Don't, don't. Like, if we're coming out, we had a nice strong night and we all

messed up from the alcohol and you want to get slutted out, I got something for that too. We'll be a gentlewoman, we'll slut you out. Hey, hey, hey, listen. Hey, I can wear basketball clothes and I can wear a suit. What's happening? You know what I'm

A true verse In that regard Hell yeah That's so funny, dude Married for 20 years I was I was married for 20 years I was

My high school sweetheart I met her when I was I think 15 years old She was like 14 I think I was 16 Whatever it was a long time ago It was like 30 years ago I don't know

I can't do numbers right now I was drinking last night Don't ask me to do math. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we were babies, knowing each other more than half our lives, and we thought we were going to be together for heaven. And then, you know, things change

and tragic things happened. And then one person can handle the tragedy and one person can't. So she spirited out, got a little depressed. I was just like, and then started doing like crazy stuff, and I'm just like, I can't help you no more. Are you all friends now or no?

We could try to be friends, but she is still mentally just, she's just not mentally. ready to She'd be inside I don't think she stepped out of her house in three years Yeah

Maybe to walk the dog that we have But she's a great dog mom I trust her with the dogs She handles that Marrying someone so young Is such a big choice For such like Y'all were kids when you got married

That's really crazy You know what? We didn't get married Till maybe 12 years into it But we were still very young Yeah we were very young Yeah that was my baby I loved her so much

I still love her But it's further than I can reach, you know, so I'm just like, I got to let it go. You got to let it go sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm over the love part. I'm over the being hurt part. I'm over all of that shit. I just, I want her to be well.

Now, when we was getting divorced, I did not wish they'd be true. Did it get all toxic? It was very, very toxic. You know, we got on drugs together. But the difference is I got off the drugs. Yeah. I was just, you know, God gave me something. him very special and I appreciate him for it.

He gave me a light switch. I can flip this. I could stop drinking when I feel like it. I can stop eating when I feel like it. Anything I need to do to get to where I need to be, I could just cut it off. So we did drugs for a little bit. I saw my life wasn't going anywhere. I just, overnight. Just done.

No more Coke. But she didn't. So it just spowered from there. I would come home, strangers in the house. I'd be like, who are all these niggins? Not the strangers. Ben, it would be, I was like, you know, because crackheads, no crackheads. So I'm helping the house with all these crackheads in the house.

I'm like, who are these people? Yeah. It just got really, really bad. But for a crackhead, it's really fun. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm not doing it.

These are people I met. This is a good time. I'm not having fun anymore. Yeah. So we just, you know what I'm saying? And she, and she know I love it. I'm not, you know, I'll be trying to tell people, they be like, you got to stop putting her in business out.

I'm like, this is, I can tell my side of the story without insulting her or like, this is just my piece. of your view or what happened. Yeah, these are facts. These are facts of what transpired. You're not telling anything like deep, dark, intimate. You're just like, oh, this is a way, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I'll never try to hurt her like that. I hope she know that, so. Yeah. You think you ever get married again? You know what? I do not think I'll get married again. But, you know, but also I stopped believing in love after I got married and I fell in love.

Yeah. And you just, you just never know. And the reason why I say that is because I'm very traumatized at how I a divorce took place and how, how, we were just so mean to each other and I mean it was it was just non-stop we lost the friendship

and the divorce and it was very hurtful so I say that to say I don't want to break it divorces are just so hard and it's so crazy that I'm skipping the marriage and the love part and jumping straight until I can't get married because of the divorce but I'm still just pretty like

really still just dealing with the healing of that so maybe once I come out on the other side maybe I'll get married again. That's a big, huge thing. Yeah. So you grew up in New Orleans. Yeah. You went to high school in New Orleans.

You went to college in New Orleans. I went to college. Louisiana. Tibido? Tibido, Louisiana. And you majored in general studies? I majored in physical education. Okay.

Then whenever you major in something where you have to work with students, they send you to the schools to do internships. Yeah. And when I tell you, I went to a school and these children was bad, I'm talking first soon as I walked up in there they just circled me like there was like I was just a piece of meat and they clap I'll never forget it like it was yesterday and they was like uh fresh meat fresh meat

and I'm like 20 years old I'm 20 years old bitch I'll fight you I'll fight you right now I'm basically y'all's age we can fight because it was like 16 I'm like what's up you know and just like it just went and then like they train you to be the teacher So I had to handle all, like, the demerits and the behavior issues and how I would do this in ABCD. And I remember talking to the parents, because, you know, the kids are going to be the kids. You know, we can't, that's just how they're going to act. But it was for me, once I started talking to the parents, and one of the parents was like, oh, that's your problem?

I said, I went straight and changed my major. I was like, general studies. I was like, it don't even make sense to even go through the obstacles it would take to become a teacher. I'm not taking the test. I'm not doing it because if I go to one of these schools, I'm a little. lose my career. If the parents don't help, then... I'm not doing all that, yeah.

So I'm like, change in general studies. I had all the credits, ended up graduating with the credits that I had. I ain't had to overwork over... I was good. Yeah. So when you got out of college, what was the vibe? Where were you living? What were you doing for work?

Got out of college. I tried to go to graduate school. Really? Don't ask me why. I don't know where my brain was at that time. But I guess I was just intipidal and I didn't really know how to return back home or And the woman who I married We were together at the time

And she was still in school So I was like I guess I'll just Go to graduate school I ain't got nothing else to do When did that shit for one month Dropped everything I was like I'm done I ain't doing this shit no more

And then I worked at this place Have y'all ever heard of this place called Shwans? No Yes The delivery food So wait Why I worked at this place called Shwans I got like $800 a week

I thought that was so much money and I drove and delivered fucking ice cream and chicken I would fucking love for you to show up at my door with ice cream

that would be the most important thing in the world to me it was the truck is designed to be a refrigerator on one side and it's a freezer on the other so I was out here selling hungry man meals

and ice cream sauce berry steaks yeah mint ice cream chicken green beans potatoes I was all here doing that. But the thing

the problem was I had to travel to every single city and not just Tibado. So I had to go to Gray Louisiana. Yeah. Home of Louisiana. Franklin, Louisiana. Yeah. And it was just, I was just like, no, I'm not doing this. That is so interesting. Did you meet

interesting people doing that or just kind of like whatever? I met a lot of interesting folks. It was, it was, it's the country. Yeah. So you're going to meet some all right now. You're going to meet some crazy like hillbilly and Cajun motherfuckers out there. But But it was just not the job for me. But I had a CDL.

Yeah. Ooh. You know, at a green license. That was fun. Yeah. But I had to quit that shit. And then I think a hurricane hit or something. Like Hurricane Ida or something.

And then our house was destroyed. So me and my wife at the time, we had to move back home. Yeah. And then when I got back home, I became a bartender at this place called the Dackery Shop. Yeah. And that's where my life took off. But that's when I learned how to make drinks. Yeah.

I'm like, this way I belong at the bar. The bar was after college, I worked at a bar. I didn't even have to go to college. That was crazy, but it was good to do it because, you know, I was the first one in my immediate family. But, like, worked at a bar, learned at a bartend, got fucked up at work. It was the perfect job for a New Orleans person to do. Out to two in the morning.

And then you just wake up at 6 p.m. and start all over again. Yeah, hell yeah. And so were you doing shows at the time? I was not. I was not. This was, I was, you know, this was like 2010. Yeah. I didn't stop comedy until 2011. Really? I didn't know that. My, me and my girlfriend, wife girlfriend at the time, we broke up and I couldn't handle it.

I couldn't. I was just like, I can't be in the same city with you. And that is what pushed me to go chase my dreams. Yeah. That's when I went to California. Now, I know that growing up, you were, uh, I know that you're a big, will be Goldberg fan. Yes. I feel like I remember you were like a Richard Pryor fan. Absolutely. Uh, Eddie Murphy was big for you as well.

100, yeah. So at what point was Punky in Louisiana, like, I need to try this? Like, what point did you know it? And then how long until you did it? Well, you know what? I knew it my entire life. Because the last thing I would watch before I went to sleep at night was Comic View. Yeah.

Where you had, like, that's when I met through the screen, D.L. Hughley. Montana, if you remember, Montana. D.C. Curry. Yeah. Cedentertainer, Steve Harvey. Cedric. Cedric was a big one for me. Yeah.

you know, just D-Ray was popping on, we just met, I watched it every single I watched every rerun. I was like, I'm gonna be a comedian. Yeah. And then my mom cleaned the house with, you know how moms typically clean the house with music?

My mom cleaned the house to the sounds of comedy. Whoa. So I loved comedy. I knew I wanted to do it. But for me, I never really saw it because I was just like, I'm just a small dyke in New Orleans. I'll never do it.

Yeah. But I'm not. special by the way. I ended up doing it and it became the best move I ever did in my life. Well, it's you, I think it's what you're meant to do. I mean, you're so, you're such a natural out of it. And then you had to learn how to do it. I had to fight for every thing. That's, that's one thing about this business that I can truly attest to. I've had to fight tooth and nail for every single thing that I've gotten. Yeah. Nobody gave my ass nothing. And I get it. You know, to know me is to love me. You know what I'm saying? But man, who has been a journey.

Yeah. It's so interesting that your mom is such a huge comedy fan because I, I, I know that when you moved to New York to do S&L, she left to hit a bunch of letters in your luggage, right? Or something like that. Oh, he gave you some letters? Had me crying my ass off. And one of them said you're one step closer

to pay me back for the life I gave you. Yeah. So she was really invested in the punky story. Yes. I have all of the letters that she gave me kind of faded right now. I should have got them laminated. But I still have them all up on my bar

and I'll read them sometimes. And I'll be cry. I still cry. Go get those eliminated. I know. Please go get those protected. Yeah, I will. I will.

They're fading out, so I will. Yeah, get them protected. But that tramp dog, go tell me I owe her for life and all of that stuff. That's so funny. I'm sitting up there reading the letter, you know, the whole first page is all, you know, emotional and inspirational and all that shit. And then I flip it over.

Yeah, but you owe me money with your bitch ass. I'm like, that's so funny. But that's our family dynamic. You know, we don't really like to do the, if we ever want to say something emotional, you know, we have to write it down. We cannot talk to each other. We are weird.

Like, if I talk to my brother and I'd be like, hey, bro, I just want to let you know I appreciate shit. He's going to say, man, if you don't get the fuck with that bullshit. I don't know why we like that, but we just... Stop being gay, punky. Get the hell out of here. So, okay, so you're working at the bar in New Orleans. And then do you, when do you start, do you start comedy in New Orleans?

No. No. So New Orleans is just. It's like expanding, like now. The comedy scene is fantastic. People, the comics there, the local comics, they are really, really bringing it up. Yeah. So at the time, there was, there was, it was not, it was not a lot going on.

Yeah. So what I did was when I moved to Los Angeles, he'll go to Crazy Boys. What would really help me move to Los Angeles was why I fell in a hole. What? I fell down. I was walking down the street and next thing I know, I was under fucking ground. Okay. Puckie, what?

I don't know. They didn't have it sealed off. It was cement. It was a wet pavement. Yeah. And I fell in it. And I was up to here. No.

And so I was laughing at myself without understanding the true danger that I was in. You're laughing in the hole? I was laughing in the hole. I was like, you big, dumb bitch. How you fall in the hole? Meanwhile, I am going down. Okay. I am going down.

So then I panic. Yeah. But while I'm trying to get out, I'm pulling every muscle in my eye. I don't understand how much I'm hurting myself trying to survive in this day. I'm home. And I get out, I go to like Walgreens to change my clothes. And then I just go back to work. I don't even, my adrenaline is going so much.

I don't even understand that I fucked all my back, my neck up, my wrist, my arms. I messed everything up. Yeah. And then I go home. and my mama like, what the hell happened to you? I was like, I fell in a hole. I was like, I fell in the hole.

She was like, Kevin, this girl I'm fell in the goddamn hole. So then my daddy come out because, see, I just thought I was goofy. Yeah. They were pissed. Yeah. They was like, we can on a goddamn phone

with the attorney. Like, that was the first time I ever saw the white side of my parents. Yeah. We called our lawyer. I went to, I went, like, took care of it. I didn't know I had to go to the hospital. Went to the hospital.

All, I pulled all kinds. of shit, spraying my wrists, had to do all kind of therapy. I think the lawyer got me like, I don't know, like 20 grand. And I took that money and I went to Los Angeles with it and that's how it all started. Thank God for the hole. I know. Thank God for the hole. Thank God I survived the hole.

Thank God you survived the hole. And thank God your mom was like, lawsuit, immediately lawsuit. And then you moved to LA and got a job at the comedy store. I did. Yeah. I did. This is what I learned in Los Angeles. Yeah.

Everything is like a roll call, okay? I went to a job interview, and it was like an audition. So when I walked into the original room, first of all, I thought it was a comic book store. Right. That's what I thought. I was like, what the, I was like a comic book store hiring, cocktail waitresses? This is going to be interesting. So I go and I'm from New Orleans.

When we go get a job, we casket sharp, got a whole suit on. Yeah. Hair was done, earrings on. Like, they want cocktail, so I had to play the feminine road a little bit. I had makeup on, I had a briefcase. I was looking sharp. Yeah. I get up in there, it's like 75 people.

And they all look like this, us. Yeah. Jeans on. I'm like, this ain't how you get no job. But that's when I told the universe and God, I'm like, if I get this job out of all these people, I'm going to start comedy. Because it was like, no way I'm going to get this job. It's too many people. Why would they pick me?

Man, I got that job because the dude that happened. me. He was gay. Yeah. We bonded off queerness. Yeah. And he loved New Orleans. Damn. We bonded so hard and he gave me the job and then I started doing comedy. Did you, when you met the guy, do you remember, did you tell him about the hole? No. No, I don't think I told him about the hole. Because I was

saying, I probably would have hired you if you were like, I fell in a hole and I used the lawsuit money to move here. I'd be like, damn, here's a job. I think he asked me what I miss about New Orleans. And that's another reason why I got the job too, because I was like, would I miss about New Orleans? And she's like, yeah. I said them good old hamhawks. He said, hamhawks, would you make me a hamhawk?

I said, I'll make you a hamock. Did you? No, did not make a manhound. But we say what we have to say. Yeah, I woulda. You know, I cook all the time. I don't care. Really?

Yeah. You're good cook? I'm a great cook. What do you make? You know, that's how I get the women. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you, I don't see you having a problem getting women.

It's like, it's like a thing of like, once you come to the house and I cook you a meal. Yeah. It's a rap. I don't know what. It's just a wrap. Come on. Then I make good New Orleans food, too. Yeah.

Stuff that people, a lot of, a lot of people have not had New Orleans food that I meet. You know, they're either from Cali or New York, and they've never, New York food is fantastic. Yeah. But it's, you can't get, you got to, you got to get that rue. Once you get that rue and them girls taste that rue, they're making gumbo. They're like, what is this? Yeah.

And what, ooh, who are you making croofish etoufei? I'll make et tufei. I'll make shrimp creole. Yeah, ooh. I'll make smothered chicken, smothered pork chop. I'll make some good gumbo I just made it's gumbo season right now I'm probably fuck the kitchen up

Love gumbo Gumpo is my favorite Yeah I need honestly invite me over When you make gumbo next please Oh absolutely I'll come I'll make some cornbread and come over

Oh don't don't play with me Let's go What are we doing? Let's go It's about to get cold too Listen my nipples get hard When I hear cornbread I love me some cornbread

I'll bring some very good cornbread over Hell yeah Let's go I'll be mad like I'll be cooking That sounds so good right now I'll be cooking good too. Now, okay, when you make gumbo, what all are you putting in it? Are we talking sausage, chicken, shrimp, crab? I do sausage chicken, shrimp, crab. Yeah, crap. Always crab. Yeah. Blue crab,

preferably. Sometimes you got to get rock crap because sometimes the East Coast don't have blue crab. Yeah. Um, onions, garlic, bell pepper. Of course. Yeah, whole eternity. Of course. Sometimes I like to use ghee butter, depending on how healthy I'm trying to be. I'll use a little ghee, a little oil, make my And flour, of course, to make my root. Yeah. My mouth is watering. It'd be so good. And then you just stole all that shit in the pot and you season it till it tastes good.

Now, are you, okay, are you, when you're cooking for these women, are you pulling it out quick and early? Are you making them wait a little bit? How soon are you cooking a delicious meal for a woman? I do not like people, strangers in my house. So I would have to date you at least two months before you come over. Wow. Yeah.

You really are not like gay guys. I'm very, yeah. I'll come to your house. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Because I don't, I don't like to be rude. So if you do come over and you don't get the signs that I want you to go,

and I'll be like, just, do, let me get the fuck out. That's for so much fun. And when I go by somebody house, I'll be out. We do what we got to do, and I'll leave expeditiously. So I'm not, you know, if you're not like my girlfriend, I don't, you know, I don't really see a reason for us to be, like, laid up on each other like that. But, yeah. But if I know you for, like, two months and I'm, like, feeling you.

feeling you yeah we i'm gonna throw down for you yeah a good meal yeah and then i'm a slut you out i like that the slut you out is really killing me yeah yeah a good meal and a slut out yeah you know you know when a woman wake up on her stomach all falling off the bed half the cover on no bunkie i don't know i've not seen a woman like that i can promise you that i'll be trying to knock them down Cozy, the home of possibilities. Cozy makes finishing your home easy. Moving's exhausting and designing a home can be really time-consuming.

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head over to tomboyx.com and use promo code so true 15 for 15% off your first purchase and tell them so true with Caleb Heron sends you thanks guys you know I think we all have like legendary sets that we've seen like legendary like comics doing a set that's so legendary to us like the Bernie Mac set oh yeah I'm not scared of y'all the for me Monique Queens of Comedy set oh yeah it's a huge one have you seen one of those in person like a comic even someone we're friends with have you seen a set that you're like god damn this is legendary Um, probably Dave, Dave Chappelle.

You know who I like to, you know, because since working at SNL, we get to see them in action, right? Yeah. And then like a lot of comedians, a lot of hosts that come to the show. Yeah. You, the team, the writers are right there, monologues for them. Yeah. But the comedians that come, they perform, they write their own monologue. Yeah.

And if they need a little help with tag and then they'll get the help. But I love to watch Bill Burr when he's on the show. I love to watch him in action. I like to watch Chris Rock on the show. I like to watch them articulate their jokes. I love to watch the progress from it from when they practice it on Friday. They go into it on Saturday.

They do it for the run-through and then they do it for the live. I like to watch the specific changes that they've made. Especially like Dave Chappelle because sometimes Dave Chappelle, he's just so fast. He's so clever and he's so smart that what he'll do is he'll do a whole monologue, his performance for one show,

and then a second show. you'd be like that ain't what he did for the run through he'll do a whole different 22 minutes he's prolific yeah it's supposed to be seven minutes

yeah that bitch will do 20 yeah but you're sitting up there and you're like oh man he's a genius but come on man I'm trying to be on TV

you know what I'm saying get your ass off the stage motherfucker yeah but yeah I mean I really enjoy I really really enjoy watching Chris Rockwork I mean I do have

an obvious question for you about Dave which is like he's an undeniable but he spent so much of the last several years of his career really going in on this trans stuff he did what do you make of it like how does that make you feel we have several conversations about it number one thing about Dave he's not anti-trans yeah he's just he's he's just a fucking idiot yeah he's just like he's not anti-gay he's not anti-trans he's not like that but the problem is

once he tell one joke and he get a rise out of people he will continue to to get that rise He's like, he's like, uh, he's like rebellious in that way, you know what I'm saying? And you've had those friendship conversations where you're like, come on, man, come on, come on. Don't do another one, no. I've had those with comics, yeah. He going to do what he want to do. He fucking Dave.

And it's just like with him, if you know him and you know his heart, you wouldn't take offense to it. But in his climate, I can understand why it's received the way it's received. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. So it's just like on some, like I went to a, like a trans, like a trans, party. Yeah.

Why my dumb ass had a Dave Chappelle shirt on? I was like, Pockie, what the fucker you're doing? Yeah. Why did you pick this sweatshirt today? Yeah, there wasn't another sweatshirt. I wasn't even think, I'm just like,

you stupid motherfucker. Yeah. I was like, God, please don't let these people realize what I got on. And was it, did anyone say anything? No one said anything, but I felt just so uncomfortable. I was just like, I hope, you know, I'm an ally. I was just so sorry.

Yeah. I didn't mean it. That's so funny to me. It was, it was very innocent. But, you know. When you were on the show, did you prefer having standups on to watch that process? Or was it fun seeing like the famous people try and figure it out in a way that they never have to do? What was more fun?

With watching the host? Yeah, like in terms of hosts, did you prefer a comic or did you prefer like the actors? Like, what was more fun for you to watch? You know what? It's pretty split down the middle. It's pretty equal. I thoroughly enjoyed why, because you know, everybody's process is very different. Yeah.

And you can watch some of the hosts who won't submit to the show. And they will specifically have a very hard time. Yeah. Now, because that's the show that you have to submit to because they're going to do it their way. They've been doing this for 51 seasons. You think it's your, but boom, to take all that ego, you had SNL. Yeah. Drop it.

Yeah. And then once people understand that and they submit, the show goes perfectly well, you know? So it's just, you know, SNL is a different machine. It's a monster and it built itself. And everybody, it's a dance. You've been there. It's just like everything is moving at one time. Everybody understands where everything needs to be.

Everybody has the rhythm it takes to get the show done. Nobody's bumping in to nothing. Nobody's messing up things. It's just like these people have been working. You know, everybody's kind of sort of in a way married to each other because they're married to the game. So the way that it moves, just the choreography of it, is just amazing.

I can't believe it runs the way it runs. I'm more impressed with how it all runs and how they change the sets and take them down in 30 seconds. The logistics and the staff and crew on that show are superheroes. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nuts.

Yeah. I mean, they are some mistakes. I mean, I ran in front the camera one time. Oh. Whole head, live TV. She said my whole, all of this. You see, all of this and up in my wig. Yeah.

I was like, I'm so sorry, Lauren. Yeah. That's so funny. So, you know. Did you have any, because you made a couple big moves now in your life. You went from Louisiana, L.A., you went to Valley in New York. Were there any, like, big culture shocks when you made those moves? Anything that was like?

You know what? I'm glad you asked that. Okay, so I beef with a lot of gay people online. Yeah. First of all, say that. Okay, I'm beef with so many gay people. And it's because, first of all, I'm always talk shit. Yeah.

That's just how I am. I talk shit about every single thing, every single, every person. And if you watch the videos, you could see that is out of love. It's not like some hate slander bullshit. But what I realized when I moved, that gay people, it's all regional. Right? So when I talk shit online, it's because that's how I was born and raised gay. So down in the south, like Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana.

We have this thing of like we kind of mirror the heterosexual relationship. So I can't be with no butch. That shit is gay. It's gay. Can't be out here doing boy-on-boy. That's nasty. That shit is nasty, right? I come from the way we were born and raised in a gay community.

as dykes, right? The boys will be boys. If you play like the tubal or basketball, you are the boy, and you have to be the boy. You can't be coming out with your nails painted doing all that gay shit, okay?

So then I moved to Los Angeles and these gay is just running amok. There's Fem on Fem action. Fem on Fitch on bitch. I'm like, what is this gay shit? This is stupid. Yeah, now I'm competing.

with the butches and the fims for the fims? This isn't right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when I started to, and also what it did was, that's when I started to soften up. Yeah. That's when I was like, oh, so I don't have to beat this big butch man that I was taught by whoever our gay commissioner was, you know? I don't even know, but I do realize that it's all different rules.

And when I'm fighting with people on the internet, I'll be fighting with people because, like, I heard that they have this thing called Dyke Dickin or something like that. I forgot but it's butchers having secret sex with men Oh And I got on line And I was like

Butchish say it ain't so Please tell me this is not a thing I had a bitch friend do this in college You can't have sex with men I know And then like all like the new school gays We're like you're starting to look more homophobic to us More that you talk

And I'm just like I don't get fuck What I look like bitch That shit is nasty Well this is I get dragged into some some young internet queer discourse sometimes for things I say on here. And I'm like, there's a couple things going on here. Number one, y'all spend most of your time online. I spend most of my time in the real world with real people.

And so when I talk about people that are different from me, it's out of love for my friends. But y'all don't really have friends like that, no shade. And so y'all are just hanging out on your little corners of the internet. And then that's one piece of it. And then the other piece is they're used to now, like a lot of people, they look up to the younger queers. they look up to these like very sanitized like influencer types and I'm like I'm not an influencer

I'm a comic I am a comedian I like to make people laugh I'm joking around I'm finding the flaws I'm making fun of that's what we do and so I'm like

you that's fine I'm not for you then I don't have to be for you also I don't have to be you know like I get into a lot of arguments with the gays because I'm like

I don't have to be with this gay agenda I don't have to be with it it doesn't make me less gay than you I'm gay you're not with the gay motherfucker I've been I've been fighting longer But I've been in this gay fight all my life.

I'm gay as the fuck. And I'm with the gays. But I don't agree with a lot of things. I get in trouble a lot because I don't like to be called queer. But it's trauma for me because I went to a white school when I was younger. And they teased me with queer. Yeah. That's what I was called.

I didn't go at the black schools. Because at the black schools, they was called Dykes. But nobody called me Dyke at the white school. They teased me, called me creep, weird, queer. Yeah. And I carried that with me. And all of a sudden, queer is a good. good word. I'm like, no, I can't do queer.

And you don't have to like that. I haven't gotten over it. It's like, it's, it's just like, no. So bitch, fuck queer. And they're like, ah, yeah, yeah, you're against us. I'm like, no. I'm with you. I just have my own story. Yeah. So I always have to constantly just fight with that. And sometimes I, we argue

because I'm just like, why, if you feel like I'm not a part of the gay agenda, whatever that is, the rules that the new gays have made? Yeah. If I disagree with one thing, then how am I cast out of the community? Because I don't agree with how this works or what this is I'm just like no

if it's supposed to be all inclusive yeah if that's what we're preaching then that's what we should be that then we should lead an example with that well that's the other thing is like it or not we're in community together when they when they come round us up we're all getting rounded up whether like the

the young online queers that want to bitch with us about terminology or whatever and I understand it because I'm partially in that like I feel like I've kind of got a foot in both I'm like regardless this is the this is the LGBT QIA plus plus whatever community all of us are in this thing and the only people I'm really not down with are the gay people that are like fuck trans people other than that

oh no we can't say we have to protect our trans people that's what I'm saying and as long as that's not your thing I don't care we can disagree on pretty much anything with about about the labels and the language you know what I mean right right right but I don't like queer either I'm a gay man yeah that's what I'm saying like I'm fine with being a die-ass bitch you know and I'm just like We're just going to keep queer. We ain't going to change it of remix it. Yeah. Just queer.

Just going to keep that dusty-ass word. Just queer. No quiggas. No quinsens. No cues. We just fucking still queer. It's okay. Jesus Christ.

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Yeah, they used to play a game when I was in the fourth grade called Smear the Queer. Of course, yeah, we did too. And it was, it was a tough, it was just like, no, I'm not fucking with it right now. I kind of liked that game, though. I was like, you can, y'all can touch me. You know what I mean? It was like, oh, no. It was like, oh, no, what if y'all all touched me?

I didn't mind it, punky. I was cool with it. I liked it. I was like, no worries. All the boys want to jump on me? That's not a problem. That was the problem. The boys wanted to smear me.

Yeah, if the girls were smearing me, I'd be pissed. Exactly. If the girls were smear me out, I probably would have been like, crucible bitch, nail me to the cross. Oh my God, that's so funny. It was just so weird. It was just like, I was just like, No, we're good.

We're good. That is a culture show. I just always want to get, like, whenever I do podcasts and get on any platform, I always want to be very specific and heavily say, I love my gay people. I don't get fuck if we disagree on this or that. I've been in this fight. Yeah, I love gay people so much. Trump taking us all down and being in a second now, so we might as well just love each other.

Isn't it fun when you, like, meeting a gay person is just like the fucking bet. Like, when you find out someone's gay out in the world, I mean, like an older gay person makes me want to cry immediately. Oh, yeah. I just want to immediately sob. I see like a 65-year-old gay man. I'm just like on the verge of tears. Sometimes, yeah.

When I see like the older ones, I do want to cry sometimes because I can't even imagine. I know. The barriers they had the break to just beat themselves finally. Yeah. You know, and now it looks like it's going back, which is so fucking weird. But anyway, yes.

Yes, you're down with G-A-Y. You know, G-A-Y. So what do you've been up to? What's on your mind? What's making you happy right now? You know what? When I left F-S-N-L, I was, I don't want to say I was distraught

I was just lost No because I started As just a comedian I had no intentions on going to a show like SNL Because I was very brash, blunt And a person like that doesn't belong on network television Yeah So they said

And so when I got the opportunity to do it I was very shocked And I nailed the audition Which I sent in some ghetto-ass shit And they loved it because it was different And then I got a callback I was like, okay, so I doubled up on my characters and then I got the job.

Now, I went with that being said, I went from just being this comedian who was just out, just having a good time and thought that that's what I was going to do for the rest of my life to the biggest sketch show in the world overnight, right? And then you do it for four years

and you're like, okay, this is my life now and then you just stop. Yeah. And then everybody is like, Can't wait to see the next big thing. And now you're sweating and you got all this shit. Like, fuck, what's the next big thing? I don't know.

I didn't have a plan. And so for a minute, I was very stressed. I went down into a dark hole. I stopped talking to a lot of people. And it wasn't out of like spite or I hate you. It was just that I was just mean. And I just needed to keep all that negative energy to myself. And so what happened was I just was like, God just helped me, send me a sign like,

what am I supposed to be doing? Because I don't want to do the next big thing. I don't want to do the next thing that is meant for me to walk in my purpose, right? So one day I woke up and the Lord said, we don't have butch representation. Yeah. We ain't got none. Yeah. We need somebody out here that's representing for the big, like, butchers who are okay with being masculine and putting out that tough shit.

Because the world don't want tough if you pay attention. Like, if we, if you watch anything on television, you don't really see the tough, tough butches. Yeah. Everybody's kind of got that soft, you know, like, we have to keep it soft for television. Now, fuck that. Even with the L word, you ain't seen, like, no real butches, you know? You saw, like, some masculine women, but you ain't see, like, no real niggas, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I was like, I'm about to get out here, and I'm about to start representing for my masculine women.

Yeah. And I ain't going to be scared to do it. And I'm not going to be scared that TV, not going to want to pick me up because I'm too brash or I'm too tough, you know? And so I remember when I did my special like two months ago Congratulations, brother Thank you Thank you

So many masculine women So many butchers Came up to me and was like I fucking feel seen Punky Yeah I see I feel seen Because I'll be like

I be on stage doing all that shit I'd be like Ro ro ro ro ro ro roo What a butcher I'd be doing all that shit And all the butchers be in the back Like

There's a fucking male man in the neighborhood So it's just like, I want to do that. And you know what else I did? Because I was just like, I needed like direction. I did something that black people do not do. I went to the jungle and I did the strongest strand of DMT. Really? Yes.

That's the death drug, right? It simulates the death reaction in your brain. Is that what I'm thinking of? I did Bufo. Whoa. The Toad. Whoa. And the one that Mike Tyson did, the one that Joe Rogan talks about doing too.

I did that and it changed my entire life. Wow, that's so interesting. That's what I, I didn't know it would change. Like, ever since I did that, it's like something shifted in my brain. I became like this person of just like, well, it's going to be what it's going to be. What's the worst that can happen? We're either going to be late or we're not going to make it. What's the consequence?

Not much. Like, nothing really truly matters. All right, and I got a job. I guess I got to come back home, ma. You know what's the worst that can happen? Yeah. So once I just started living like living. just kind of with that mindset everything just shifted in my entire universe like I was able to

shoot my special you know I booked a really great job like um just like everything you know I submitted my documentary to Sundance it's like like everything just started going up because my mindset just happened to change and it just makes you realize that life is precious and I want to enjoy every single moment of it and I don't really want granted there will be things that stress you out it's just not going to be a perfect, you know, it's not going to be perfect. But I've, I've just been happy ever since I've done it. Yeah. So you went, where'd you go to do DMT?

Where's this on? Went to Mexico with a really, uh, uh, with some really, really great friends. And the experience itself is very scary. It's, I just want to let anyone know if you're thinking about doing it is so scary. You go away. That's all I can tell you. From your body consciousness? You go away.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very hard to explain. Um, you go away. Yeah. It's, it's getting scarier the more you say it. You go away. It's like your brain, it takes you to all these. It's like the experience itself is like, it's seven minutes.

I remember I woke up in it, but I couldn't hear anything, but I could see. And my, uh, spiritual guide, I remember just dancing with her. And it was almost like I was floating on clouds. It was just such a surreal experience. and I felt like I was with an angel. And then, like, she, like, laid me down. And then I just started experiencing all these things. And you go through all of these emotions.

It's like, whatever you've been running from, it meets you head on. And you have to take care of it. What met you? Just like. Or we don't have to say. Forget. No, it's just like, here go, he'll go the thing. So before you do it, they give you a prayer to read.

And she stands in front of you. She holds this prayer. Yeah. And I couldn't get past the third sentence. I was, this woman, no one has seen me cry like this besides my mother. I cried the ugliest. I'm talking about all the deep. I cried.

Snot. Filted. Ugly cry. Yeah. I could not get past and I forgive myself. Oh. I couldn't. I was like, enough.

I was doing all. Oh. Yeah. I was doing all this. I was just like, I could not get past that. Yeah. And in the moment, I was like, damn, I must have done some crazy shit, you know? So when I went in under the Bufo, I just asked for forgiveness for all the things that I've done.

Yeah. And just like, and I forgave myself a lot. Because, you know, I felt really bad for leaving my wife in the state that she was in. But I had to do that for me, but that still doesn't take away the guilt. Yeah. So it's just like, and then just a lot of other stuff. stuff happened and blah, blah, blah. So I had to forgive myself for a lot of the things that I felt very, very guilty

for, even though it probably may or may not have been my fault. Yeah. And then you just do it. And I spoke with my grandmother. I spoke with my, the one, my ex who I have right now, I spoke to her mom and apologize to her about things that mean, the fights that me and her daughter have had. And I promise to do better and just like, just like all kinds of stuff. Yeah.

But it was a grand spiritual. It was a strong, intense spiritual experience. And you're fine for a day or two. Now, what happens is the next two weeks, your body is integrating back into its human form. Yeah. Which sounds crazy. Because when they were telling me that that was going to happen,

I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. I'm me. But you're not you. Your brain has shifted. So for the next like two weeks, my anxiety was at all time high, I thought I was going to die for two weeks. Really? Yes.

See, I don't know anything about these drugs. This is all, like, learning for me. But all the reason why I thought I was going to die for two weeks, because my anxiety consumed my, I could not breathe. You know, I had to, like, put water in my face and run up and down the hallway, and I was just doing this and just trying to snap myself out of it. But what it does is it forces you to attack all of your challenges and all of your trauma and everything that triggers you, it forces you to fucking deal with it.

Because it's not going to go away until you sit the fuck down, get your journal and say, why am I acting like this? What am I afraid of? How am I, like, what exactly is triggering the anxiety? Yeah. And so I start writing shit down, right shit down, right, shit down, right, shit down. And then once I got to it and started working through it, the anxiety just started slowly falling off. But that was me dealing with my issues.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So now I'm just trying to deal with my issues head on. And a lot of it was fear, you know, because I left SNL and then I was afraid to take it to the next step, which is crazy, because why are you afraid to take it to the next step when you just left the biggest stage in comedy sketch history?

What are you talking about? Next step is always the point. Exactly. So I just had to snap out of a lot of things and it was just like that imposter syndrome and that would if I'm not good enough and that was I supposed to be on SNL. And it was just a lot of things that was just,

I was really struggling with like just my self-esteem. So I did a lot of self-reflection, I did a lot of prayer, I did a lot of meditation, and it took a lot of work. And I'm still working, but I came out on the other side, and I just got to work. I called my acting coach. I'm like, it's time to get fucking busy. Even though I was working with my acting coach, when I had an audition. Now I'm like, nah, we need to get on.

We need to go every week. I need to get into this study. I need to understand what the writer talking about. Why is this bull? Why is this dash here? I just started like really, really getting into script and scene study. And here we are. Yeah. We ask people on this show every episode, what's so true to you?

Is there something that's so true to you right now, Punkie? You know what? I think what's true to me is I watch a lot of like therapy videos online. And I watch this, what people say what love is. Yeah. And when I watch certain things and how certain people touch each other and love each other and be with each other, I look at it and I'll be like, I don't know if I ever felt like that in my entire life. Yeah. I think I've gotten close.

I think I loved my wife. I did love my wife. We were together since we were kids. But to love her in that capacity, I don't know if we ever made it there. Yeah. And I want true love. I want to experience that. I want to cry when I look at my bitch.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I've ever made it there. I don't know if my heart was pure enough to do it. But now I'm, like, actively working on myself and I'm looking for it inside of me. Yeah. So that I can do it to whoever I'm with later. I think it's all there for you.

I think it's going to happen. Yeah, yeah. I want to be, I want to be like, you change my life. I want to say, you know, you had so much value. I just want to be shit-faced crying and I just want to find a love of my life. I know she's out there. And I'm a fucking catch. I can't believe it's bitch.

Let me go. I can't either. You're a huge catch. You know, I have my little issues. Don't get it twisted. We all do. But I'm a goddamn catch. Punky, not for nothing.

A lot of lesbians watch this show. Great. So right now the hope in my heart is that maybe you coming on so true plays a little role. Maybe they reach out. Maybe you end up with somebody from, I mean, that would mean the world to me. Damn me, baby. I need you to be like 5-1, 5-2. Say it.

I need you to be like a Felicia Rashid kind of pencil skirty. Tell them. You know, and you got to be able to put me in my place without saying. nothing. I want you to look at me into this and I'm going to be like, yes, ma'am. I want to be, that's a great thing. I want to be bossed around, but I don't want to be controlled. It's a difference.

I just want somebody who kind of know, I want to be able to go to my woman and ask for advice and she can give it to me. I don't want to be the person. Like a lot of my relationships, like the last relationship I was in, the relationship with my wife, I found myself being on both side of the gender roles. And sometimes that could get annoying. It's like, damn, I got to go to work.

I got to come on. I got to come on. I got to do laundry. It's like, damn, I don't want to do everything all the time. I don't mind. I will. I was like, come on, baby. Help me out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's just like, you can't smoke no cigarettes. Mark that off. You can't smoke weed. Of course. I got to do weed, but you can't smoke no cigarettes. And you got to drink a little bit and have some fun.

Yeah. You know? I love that. 5152. Belisha Rashad, pencil skirt. And if you could be bilingual, that would be nice too, because you could teach me a thing or two. Yeah. And I love a woman who just like on top me, ride me, and she'd be like, what accent was that just let me know what it was whatever that was better than that when a woman do that to me and grab my face i'd be like busting the night car key i'm dead we have a game for you yes all right this the true or false segment okay we play this with every guest there's i'm

going to read you 15 statements okay you're going to tell me as quickly as you can of what i just said was true or false okay and if you get 10 or more close crack, Punky, we're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars. Okay. All right, let's lock in. You ready? Yes. All right. Squids have three hearts. True. True. In Italy, it is illegal to build a house without a bidet. Wait, say it again?

In Italy, it's illegal to build a house without a bidet. False. True. Damn. The Mall of America is in Columbus, Ohio. False. False. It's Bloomington, Minnesota. Nickel State University's band is the Nichols Corps. False. False. It's the pride of Nichols. potatoes were the first vegetables grown in space false true

shack only hit one three-point shot in his entire NBA career true Japan is made up of over 14,000 islands true the New Orleans Saints were originally the New Orleans pythons false that is false the summer solstice is the longest day of the year the who

the summer solstice is the longest day of the year False. Damn. Honey expires exactly one month after being harvested. True. False. It never expires. Thriller was the first video aired on MTV.

Say it again. Thriller, Michael Jackson's thriller, was the first video aired on MTV. That's false. False. It was video killed the radio star. The Treaty of Paris ended the American Revolutionary War. Oh, God, these fucking history questions. The Treaty of Paris ended who?

The American Revolutionary War. False? True. Fuck! I want to commend you, though, you're going quick. Okay, the Ron Eagle is a real bird. False. False.

Africa is the only continent that's in all four hemispheres on Earth. Repeat it. Africa is the only continent that is in all four hemispheres on Earth. That's false. That's true. Rihanna has won nine Grammy Awards. Pop. Oh, God.

She's one nine? Nine. Rihanna, talk to me, bitch. True. It is true. How'd you do? Nine. Damn.

As many Grammys as Rihanna. Yeah. You know what, though? I will say you might be our most locked-in guest on the True or Fals. You got locked in. That was really good. Hey, hey, hey, don't threat me with a good time. I love to compete.

I was very, you did a killer job. Punky, it was such a treat to have you. Will you tell people where they can find you? Yes. Also, it was a treat to be here. you so much. Thanks for doing it, dude. I love you so much. Love you, Triek to have you. Um, y'all can find me at Punkie Johnson on everything. P-U-N-K-I-E-E Johnson and follow me. I'll be doing a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, I know that's right. You

absolutely will. I can't wait for people to find out what you're up to. I can't either. Yeah, it's going to be God. God has blessed me, people, and I can't wait for y'all to see my work. I'm excited about it. Same. I can't wait to see it. Thank you for doing it, dude. Absolutely, baby. That was a hate gum podcast. What's going on? It's Lamorne Morris. And we host The Mess Around, a New Girl rewatch podcast now on HeadGum. Now, here's the thing. Every single week, we chat about an episode of New Girl, and we really get into it.

Like, we get up in there. We get up in there. You know, we reminisce about our times on set. We share behind the scenes tea. We react to rewatching episodes that we haven't seen in years. We talk about how Jake Johnson is dog. That's not true. We talk about so many memories we have of working with the biggest stars on the

planet. I'm talking Prince, Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodriguez. We're just two BFFs having a good old time, okay? Sometimes we even talk to other co-stars like Zoe Day Chanel, Jake Johnson, Max Greenfield, and Damon Wayne's Jr. And your dad. We talk to your dad on this show as well. Make sure you subscribe to the mess around wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every single Tuesday.