So True with Caleb Hearon - Waxahatchee Wants Public Beef

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Howdy, y'all! This week's guest is the supremely talented Waxahatchee AKA Katie Crutchfield! Katie and Caleb talk about the differences between musicians and comedians, her latest album, her love of Tom Petty, touring, and much more! Be sure to check out Yeehaw! A Benefit Show for Kansas City Tenants featuring Caleb, Katie, and so many more amazing acts all for a good cause! Get tickets here starting September 3rd: https://linktr.ee/yeehawkc Join our Patreon for an exclusive extended interview with Waxahatchee and other bonus content! https://patreon.com/SoTruePodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink Follow Waxahatchee! @waxa_katieFollow the Show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Recorded at Bad Ladder Productions in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know what a lyric I think about a lot is? Go. The drinking bones connected to the party bones. Yeah, let's go! The party bones connected to the staying out all night long. Yeah. She won't think it's funny. And I'll wind up all alone.

And the lonely bones connected to the drinking bones. You've seen the podcast. I've seen the podcast. How many episodes do you think you've watched? Well, actually, it's funny because I was going to ask you, like like not that many because i was gonna ask you if i'm the first musician is katie the first musician hopefully yes it's gonna it's gonna be hurtful to whoever if i say yes i do think you are okay cute i love that breaking barriers i know trailblazer whoa it just means i'm not gonna be very funny but i

no yeah yeah you're hedging i know i really i do need i'm gonna listen to your music after this oh thank you that's caleb's favorite yeah yeah tell them tell them tell them how i use this anytime caleb sees me perform he literally is like i just checked out your music i love it so much really blown away really oh brian's a musician yeah of course. But Brian's also kind of a comedian. We had Brian Robert Jones on. Oh, OK. Of Para of Para for fame. Yes.

Of course. Yeah. That is my favorite joke to do to you. I think it's really funny. Yeah. Well, it's not as funny as feminine hygiene. I knew you were going to bring up hygiene. I told you about feminine hygiene, didn't I?

Yeah. I thought about feminine hygiene today. So feminine hygiene for the listeners. I haven't talked about it on the podcast. you not i don't think so when you left like when you told the joke and then you walked away shelby was like caleb's really like gotten carried away it's really like he can't stop making the feminine hygiene feminine hygiene is going to go ahead and be that a couple weeks ago i was in paris with my friend ali and we were in a pharmacy and we were you know it's like middle of a long day when you're out walking and it's really hot and i uh rocco hasn't heard

this chance have you heard this well i ali and i middle of a long day i kind of wanted to make her laugh you know i was trying to get a good laugh out of ali and we were we were in the pharmacy and we walked past the feminine hygiene section and i said feminine hygiene all right i'll give it a try hygiene he still loves it he still loves it that's what you're saying you're saying hi to gene yes in a feminine way in a feminine way you're saying hi to gene in a feminine way as opposed to the meaning i really think it's one of the funniest things anyone's ever said i got it yeah it is i got it got it is so brutal god it is so hurtful i'm sorry i came i came to your concert in uh london yes and in amsterdam yes am i the person who's seen your concert the most yes you are in factually i mean unless

like strangers may have seen more but my people you have seen the most i you are in factually i mean unless like strangers may have seen more but my people you have seen the most i'm pretty high up there it's a good show thank you so much you're doing good stuff over there thank you how are you feeling about it i feel good i'm pretty like excited to hit the road again i'm kind of like i've got some momentum like i don't really remember what my life is like without the show like the show has become a big part of my everyday yeah because how long have you been doing it since April um and yeah so a while I took I had a little break in the middle for like a month but mostly I'm I'm doing that show almost every day of my life yeah yeah that's really crazy yeah for a long time yeah

it's really crazy the thing I'm most jealous of musicians i say this all the time is that when you guys make an album when you make a record you not only get to tour it right away which comedians also get to do but you get to play it forever like you get you get to play the hits forever get to is such a sweet way to say it really is like and that's true i mean we do get to it isn't like it's a privilege to get to. Yeah. And I need to remember that because I think in a few months I'll be like I like my language in my mind will be I have to. And so it's it's beautiful. I get to.

You're like, oh, fuck. We're playing Lone Star Lake again. Or here we here we go. Here we go. Lone Star again. Yeah. Lone Star once more. Yeah.

Once more. You I don't know if you've said this every time, but you've at least said it a couple of times that I've seen it. You will you put out a record this year. I did. Called Tiger's Blood. Yes. That's so good. Thank you.

Critically acclaimed. Smash hit. People are loving it. Thank you so much. I'm going to kind of sit in a curled up way. Do you mind if I get really cozy? I wish you would. Okay.

Thank you. It's what the show's all about. Okay. I thought so. The show's about you. It's whatever you want. Okay. But everyone's loving it.

Everyone's loving the album. It's so good. Thank you. And you have said a couple times on tour that your, uh, or at least one of your favorite songs from the record is crowbar. Yes. Why is that? Tell me about crowbar. It's a special one. It's really like, um, I think to me when we were making that song, like there's some things about it that aren't totally like of this moment and of this time. Like it feels a little eighties or a little nineties. Like it's,

it's really, really like fast pace, like high tempo, um, uptempo. And when we were in the studio, we just like kept making it faster and faster. And it kept feeling less and less like a song you'd hear right now.

I don't know why, like it kind of reminds me of REM or something. Um, or like self-titled Lucinda vibes, like kind of like eighties. There's me, it's giving eighties to me. I don't know why.

And it's really, really fun to sing. It's in like a really like sweet spot of my range. So that's why I like it. But one cool thing about it is that it really has its people. Like there are people who that's just their favorite song. And so like, I love to play it live and just the crowbar hive like really just like

starts buzzing it pops off it starts buzzing like you can tell there are some people it's not like the whole audience but there are some people in the audience who have been waiting all night for that yeah which is really fun that is really good it's not a single or anything it's like its own special little vibe I also as you know we can cut absolutely any of this so if I say something that you're not loving don't worry we'll cut it but I told you in person that I thought this was so funny but I saw a tweet about you that uh do you remember when I told you this no this person said um this person said I love Waxahachie because what the hell is she saying and also yes girl

it's so weird like I feel like on this album I've been getting a lot of feedback or like honestly what it feels like happens is like you or Allison or someone close with me like will share something that's like being said about the record um and I'll be like wow I actually think that that's really true but I never thought about it and it's making me kind of almost like not too self-aware but definitely more self-aware um but that that's been like repeatedly people have been kind of saying like like there was a pitchfork article that came out and the writer he this guy Andy Cushy was like so sweet and amazing but he said this thing in the article that was like like she's giving like too much and too little information at the same time. And I actually think like, yeah, that actually tracks. I, I'm not really like thinking about it like that. I'm just kind of like, going into like a blurry frame of mind and writing the song. And then afterward, I'm like, yep. yep and and then people are that's that song and

people are kind of like giving me that feedback that it's sort of like I have no clue what the fuck you're talking about and also I love it well I think what it's tapping into is that you're one of the most interesting lyricists putting out music right now you are just a very well you know I'm a fan you are also a dear friend of mine so I love to gush about you. But your lyrics are really like – the reason I love that tweet, and I do hesitate to give this random Twitter user this information. I'm sure they're going to watch this amount of love for their little tweet. But what I relate to about it as a huge fan of your music is, like, you will say things in a way that I'm like,

I don't fully know what she was talking about when she wrote that or what you were feeling, but I do really feel it. Like you can take it pretty far on a prayer that's pale and synthetic. Did I get those words right? You absolutely nailed that. Paradox poetic. Don't get me started.

I'll do this all day. But I'm like the, I, I couldn't put those words together, but it does just really like the way you sing it and the way it all fits in the melody and the, the, yeah,

it just feels like i do feel like sorry but she's so right but i don't know i don't know what she's talking about it's so true it's so it's so true you know what people more and more on the show are starting to say so true when they're being interviewed in here oh my god it's coming about people can't help themselves i remember you sent me this video of like you were at a coffee shop and a plane song came on and you were like listening to it just like a front-facing camera like video of you and you're like vibing to it and then it goes off and you just look at the camera and you go so true so true well what can i say i'm a fan yeah i do i do love i do love the

album how how has it felt touring like what have been the the differences between touring this and and well saint cloud what was the did you get to tour that yeah it was a little wonky but we did yeah um well the record came out in march of 2020 and then i didn't tour the record really until like fall of 2021 so there was like a good solid 18 months of like no one's really doing anything like with the record um people were listening to it and so that was great and then when we did tour it was like people were really excited so in a way it sort of like worked out well but it was like um it didn't really happen the way it was supposed to happen um it was a strange one but we did get to tour it um the show is just really different i think this shows a little more high energy um

you know saint cloud as a record is a little bit more um i don't know like i don't want to say austere but just sort of like a little bit calmer and and this show this set is a little more like high energy there is a high energy set it varies like there's a lot of moments where i'm like goddamn they're really rocking well you have like the best band in the world yeah that is true your band is fucking incredible yeah they really are bad people but really horrible yeah yeah totally mean don't like hanging out with them really talented on stage yeah and that's what matters yeah they're like the sweetest people on earth it's crazy it really honestly it's amazing it's they just throw the jersey on and just get it done. They go. Yeah.

And yeah, a green room vibe I think is so telling of like what a group of people is. Comedians, musicians, whoever. But how it feels in the dressing room after or before a show. And the vibes are so good after your shows. It's like, oh yeah, these are a bunch of really nice people who genuinely like what they do. Yeah. It's a really specific assignment, I think, because you live on a bus all together. I think you have to be able to create the illusion of none of us are here.

We're all on our phone. We're leaving each other alone. You have to be a person that's capable of that. But then also when it's time to all hang out, you got to bring the vibes. You got to bring like the positive, good energy. And you kind of have to be able to read the room and know what time is for what, you know?

And so I feel very blessed. My entire band and crew are all really good at that. It's really hard. It kind of is. I mean, it doesn't sound like it would be hard, but you'd be surprised. It's mastering social situations in a work hard, but you'd be surprised. Mastering social situations in a work environment,

especially a work environment that's all about people. Our job is all about perception. What people think of me, what they think of what I'm saying, how they feel about the things I'm doing on stage. The ability to know when it's time to just shut up is really, really, I think it's really hard. Yeah. And my claim to fame about this album, by the way, is that, really, I think it's like really hard. Yeah. And my claim to fame about this album, by the way, is that you let me listen to it a little early.

Yeah. Because I begged and pleaded. I threatened you, I think. You did, yeah. Yeah, I was like, send it to me or else. And I texted you back. This is maybe one of my proudest accomplishments. I texted you back that my sun, moon, and rising

were three songs from the record that were the first three singles. And they were in order. And they were in order when you were putting them out. It's pretty amazing. That's not bad. I was really impressed. That's not bad.

I was really impressed, yeah. Pretty cool. I was like, you could work in music. You could work in A&R. You're playing a dangerous game. Katie Crutchfield, you're playing a dangerous game right now. Do people know that you have an amazing voice?

I don't know you know what actually someone i don't know if it was a comment or a dm but did you see this some some girl who claims to be a fan of mine um commented or dm'd like this past week sometimes against against every device i have set up in my life i will see a comment and this person commented she was like um she was like caleb i absolutely love you like one of the funniest people alive and like as a vocalist i just want to tell you absolutely cannot sing but keep trying it's really cute it was so as a vocalist it was really it was really okay well as i'm a vocalist also? It was really intense. Okay, well, as I'm a vocalist and I'm telling you,

literally like sometimes we'll be in the car and you'll just be like quietly singing along and I'm like, okay, he's a singer. Well, you've got quite a few tour dates left and there might be some opening slots. Yeah. I open for you on tour and just do your songs. I would love that.

I do like fire. I just do a really long fire. I think that would would be great could be really fun get the crowd warmed up honestly they'd probably love it it would be amazing yeah well you couldn't you couldn't afford me sweetie i'm uh you're right i'm doing pretty big just to open as a singer what am i charging these days 20 20 50 bucks something big love it something big love it wait what was i gonna ask you about it was um i was talking to you about the record and then about my prediction of the singles oh well i wanted to ask you um will you would you ever consider on this episode you don't have to do it now you can think about it and do it later if you want but would you ever tell the the truthers

the so true truthers you're my favorite story of yours from Birmingham. Yeah, absolutely. Would you tell it now? I just, you know what the thing is, is that that story has never like hit harder than it did at that dinner. And I even tried to tell my band recently and it was one of those moments where I'm like,

you guys are really trying to be into this story but I can feel that you're but I can feel that you're trying to get it up for me yeah I I can feel that you like don't actually think that the story is that great so maybe I'll just give that caveat but I'll tell the story I'm not scared I'm not scared well when I was younger like when I was in high school there was like a war between the punks and like the kids in like the punk music scene and the skaters yeah and they didn't typically as like Tara our dear friend Tara shout out Tara we love you this is not the last time you'll come up on this episode I'm sure um as our friend Tara pointed out or maybe you pointed out like how did you guys tell

each other yeah yeah because you're like well the skaters and the punks were always at odds. And I was like, the two groups of kids who should be looking out for one another? And, like, should be, yeah, like, really only in Birmingham, like, would that, would those two groups of people have found, like, a reason? I don't know. It's so funny. Like, it's giving, like, small city, you know. But anyways, so this one summer, the punks and the skaters were at odds. And I was and I have I want to just come out and say I have really nothing against skaters at this point in my life.

Like I've gotten past it. I've known plenty of like skaters that are really great and I hold nothing against skaters but at the time it was really gnarly like it was like people were pissed and it was messy and so anyways there was this one summer that had that had already kind of been like underlying and I think the looking back I think like the punks and like the community I was a part of, and this is going to sound like obviously I'm like tooting my own horn, but we really had a conscience, you know, like we cared about the community. We cared about like we felt like we were like really about kind of doing the right thing and looking out for each other. And then the skaters were like really nihilistic and like just like sort of just violent and like fucking shit up. And that was kind of their thing.

Yeah. And so these communities were just really not vibing. So anyways, there was all kinds of things that happened. The big thing that kind of is what caused it to really heat up is there was a venue called Cave 9, which is like where I came up playing. It was like an all ages space. It was an amazing place. And across the street from Cave 9, the skate shop that I won't even name moved across the street because I actually think it still exists. So they moved across the street. And that summer, it was chaos. Like they vandalized the front of Cave 9. They would come over to our shows and like fuck shit up.

And then I'm sure like we would go over there when they would have events and like fuck shit up. And it was just kind of like, you guys are loosening the wheels on their skateboard. Yeah, exactly. It was like, we were going back and forth and I, in my memory,

as my memory serves, like they came in way hotter than we did, but, well, you guys had a conscience. We had a conscience. Yeah. We were like, we were trying to do good in the community um that's my memory of it at least so

anyways so this one night there was a party like a house party and and this war had just been like heating up and it was a house party at like you know some kids in the music scenes house it was all kind of like people in the like younger music scene in Birmingham that were attending this party big house party um and so everyone's drinking lord knows like I'm like wasted this is when I still drank and I was probably like 19 years old um we're all partying at this house and lo and behold a large group of skaters, both ones that we recognize from town and ones that we do not, roll up to this party. And everybody's backs kind of get up like,

what are these guys doing here? And anyways, one thing leads to another, and one of the guys that we don't recognize starts kind of like groping girls in the party, me being one of them. And so the rumor starts to spread. It's like, these guys are from California. There's like some pro skater here who everyone's like trying to impress and we're just like who the fuck are these people like why are they at our party so this guy's

groping people once he gropes me you know i get in his face and i'm just like you're not having that i'm not having it i'm like you gotta go and then all my like friends kind of come around me and like the guys in the in the music scene like they're kind of like, you guys got to leave. And it causes this big problem. Everyone's kind of yelling. And we all are out on the front line. It's building to a crescendo. It's building to a crescendo.

People are throwing drinks, whatever. It's really chaotic. And then I say something that will haunt me and haunts me still to this day, which I drunkenly say this is my city this is my city and wait i don't remember what this is my city and y'all need to oh y'all need to fucking leave yeah y'all need to fucking leave this is my city y'all need to leave and basically what what i'm trying to communicate is you guys are like from California. Like you don't even live here.

You don't even know like the blood that's been spilled in this war. Like you guys don't even understand. Like this is a really complicated situation that y'all walked into. These hedonist California nobodies. Y'all, this is my city. Yeah. And so from that point on, anytime I went in public in Birmingham and I saw one of those guys, they would go, oh, this is my city. Yeah. And so from that point on, anytime I went in public in Birmingham and I saw one of those guys, they would go, oh, this is your city.

And still, literally a couple years ago, I got, they're all like into motorcycles now. And one of those guys like said that, like I walked in this bar with Kevin and a guy was like, oh, this is her city. This is your city. I haven't lived there in 10 years. And Kevin was really like spooked. He's like, who's this like scary looking guy This is your city. I haven't lived there in 10 years. And Kevin was really, like, spooked. He was like, who's this, like, scary looking guy who's, like, yelling at you from across the bar? Kevin didn't know about your reputation.

And I was just like, you know, whatever. Ignore them. But, so, yeah, that's my story. Shout out, Kevin. We love you, Kevin. We love you, Kevin. Won't be the last time you come up on this podcast. You know, if we didn't give Kevin the same treatment as Tara, it would have been real hell for us.

Honestly, it's a really delicate ecosystem between the four of us. Yeah. There's a lot going ecosystem between the four of us. There's a lot going on in our little friend group. Yeah. The friend group is you, me, Kevin, Tara, and then, well... There's side characters, too. There's... And it's not that there are side sad characters in our lives but that foursome

is a foursome and it's really things have changed people have like come in and out and people do come in and out and they will yeah but that foursome stays true stays true forever yeah true to it not new to it yeah that is the group do you think like out of the four i personally think i am the least main character out of the four what do you think about that and then maybe you're next after that main character yeah like like and I'm not saying like you like what you are but sort of what you're like giving like you you're really I think you are comfortable kind of pulling back if you need to yeah I'm really comfortable pulling back if I need to I think Tara and Kevin they push forward and soldier on as main characters always.

I think it's pretty clear that Kevin's at the top of that situation. I think that that actually, if we were going to rank, I would say Kevin's number one, Tara's number two, you're number three,

I'm number four. Yeah. What do you think about that? I like that. I'd love to know what they think, but that's, I think we could probably all agree. We did this game recently

about the friend group that was also for the listeners, so we're not doing so inside baseball. Our friend Tara is a a brilliant i've talked about her on the podcast before let's talk about brilliant organizer runs the tenant union in can city which we need to talk about on this episode um and then kevin morby who is a brilliant musician that katie and i have a very identical relationship too yes and nothing is different about our relationships with kevin um we all do the same stuff in public and private.

But we did this game recently where we were like, who would do the best in the friend group with silence, no phone, being in the woods. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? I think it was who would do the worst. Yeah, we ranked again. I actually think the rankings were pretty similar.

I think I replaced Tara in that. I think that was Kevin would do the worst, die immediately. Yeah. I would die pretty soon after him. Yeah. Then it was Tara, then it was you. To be honest with you, I actually think that you and Kevin are probably tied, and me and Tara are probably tied in that.

Yeah. Well, you have a real interesting relationship to the internet and phone and attention. You've maintained like a lot of mystery about you. Thank you. Which is interesting. And a lot of like freedom from like the rat race, I feel. Thank you so much. Do you feel that? Yeah. Well, I try. I'm very intentional about it. It isn't like, I'm just effortlessly like that. Like I actually like a white knuckle have to like make myself like that in order to like make the work that I make. I've, I've a few years ago, maybe like when I quit drinking, I kind of realized there is a direct correlation with like how online I am and like how good the work I make is. I really started

kind of playing around with that when I made St. Cloud and I've just taken it all the way to now. playing around with that when I made Saint Cloud and I've just taken it all the way to now um so yeah it's kind of like you know when I put songwriting and making records and stuff if I really try and make that like well that's my biggest priority it's like making sure that I am like writing songs I love and I feel really good about it and all of that um if I make that my priority then it's really easy for me to be like well being on Instagram or something like doesn't actually really matter to me that much so um anyways and yeah I'm very insulated from like pretty much anything anybody says um about me or really about anybody that I know so I you do often have to like text me memes or like things that people are saying you I will every once in a while get a phone call from you that's like hey why wasn't I let in on this thing going on in your life yeah I'm really mad it was

on close friends yeah and that's where everyone else got it from yeah and you're not watching my close friends I'm not watching your close friends oftentimes like Kevin or Tara will like let me know what's on your close friends they'll keep me in the loop but yeah they're kind of like printing it out and laying it on your desk exactly it has to be a printout yeah you won Yeah. It has to be a printout. Yeah. You won't hear about it. No. And it's kind of like when they bring the queen a box every morning of the news. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, of course.

How the queen gets her little red box. You all know about that? I get a red box. Yeah. Every day. And it's just my printed out close friend stories. It's your printouts. Yes.

Exactly. Just me being like, think I might go to the movies. You don't want to come. I have the least scandalous close friends of all time. I love that. I believe that. Gay guy close friends on Instagram is usually one of two things. It's either like the most hateful, horrendous shit talking on someone that we all kind of know.

Really? Like just like brutal takedowns of like somebody we know. Or it is the most raunchy, unsolicited nudes you have ever seen in your life and sometimes that makes me feel like i'm really missing out i'm like really missing out well my gay guy close friends is literally just me being like anyone want to go to hooters anyone want to get chicken wings respect the girls and then see a movie at amc it really it's not there's nothing interesting going on on mine you're not missing out you know i kind of wish Close Friends didn't exist because I really sort of wish that people were, like, beefing more. Like, I wish that people were, like, just saying it like it is more.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Like, I still wouldn't see it. But, I mean, I just think public beef, like, I just wish somebody would go, like, all the way to, like, Courtney Love. You know? Yeah. Like, just, like, take it there. I think it would be really interesting and, like, have someone who's like full villain mode I think you're

describing Azalea Banks I was literally as I was saying that I'm like I'm describing Azalea Banks I wish more people would do that I just think it's kind of fun I think it's really interesting yeah often we just were we were uh sorry to pull the curtain back on the process here truthers but we recorded Bob the Drag Queen before this who is amazing by the way i don't know if you know him no um like so funny and warm and beautiful um but i was saying i often on this podcast will flirt with being that kind of person because we're sitting here talking into microphones and so i'll just go full bore into talking shit on someone that i don't like because i think it's interesting and i'm like it it's it's okay they can say the same about me we can have a yeah I do miss like when gay people were mean you know yeah people used

to be discerning and mean and it was awesome yeah but then I end up cutting it because I'm really what it is is not that I'm scared to hurt their feelings or anything sure I don't want to deal with it and I understand that and as a person who can't even use social media because I'm like my like sweet little process is like too delicate I like I completely understand that like I really believe me I do understand it I do think as a spectator like it's kind of exciting um because I do think everybody's like really safe um and then maybe the world is better for that I don't know but I you're like as a non-participatory podster, I would love to see people. The thing about you is that you're so genuinely nice and everybody can feel that from you.

That's so obvious that you're not a mean person. So when you say mean things, it's just like, it's so true. It is so true. It's so true. And that's what's beautiful. The honesty. It makes people trust you. I think it's good.

I can be very cutting and I definitely have a lot of negative opinions. I do think I'm kind. I think I'm a kind person. I think I'm fair. And I think when I when I give it, I try to only give it to people who deserve it. That's what I think. Honestly, Kevin often when he's been in situations where like somebody was like rude to him or something, he often is like, I wish Kayla was here. Like Kayla would have taken that guy down. Like that's come up a few times where Kevin's like me and Caleb knows how to do that. And it's really cool.

I like to think it's a power that I use for good, but I, I absolutely will. Oh, just, I do have it within me to really take someone apart. I love that. And I do,

I believe that, but you know what? If you have it within you to take someone apart, you also have it within you to put people together. Yeah. And I try to do that. And you do that. But I will do the taking apart if I have to.

Yeah, and that's great. Your sobriety has come up a couple times, and we absolutely do not have to talk about it, but it's a big part of your life. Yeah. Are you cool talking about it? Yeah. What inspired sobriety?

What has it meant to you? And I feel like specifically, you've probably talked about this a fair amount um so if it's boring we can certainly move on to you it won't be boring to me or the listeners but um how has sobriety impacted the way that you make things in like your artistic process um it's so funny I was like just talking about this this morning um well what inspired sobriety was just a drinking problem that's so funny. I was like just talking about this this morning. Well, what inspired sobriety was just a drinking problem. That's so classic. Yeah, I know. It's classic. I hate to tell you that's not very unique.

No, I know. And it's not. It's not. Yeah, I had a drinking problem. So that's what made me want to quit. And I actually found, and I've said this in interviews before, but when I first quit drinking, which was in 2018, which was six years ago, right? Yes. Six years ago, right? Yes. Congratulations. Six years ago. Thank you.

So when I first quit drinking, I found something I wrote in my journal when I was 18 about how I really needed to quit drinking when I was 18. So it was just really powerful. And I think there was always a voice in the back of my head subconsciously of like I don't do this how other people around me do this like this is this is like tormenting for me in a way that it isn't for everybody and I had always clocked that and that little voice in my head of like I think at some point I'm gonna have to stop doing this um that stayed with me from the moment I started drinking until I quit. Right up until, yeah.

So that was kind of my journey with that. I just sort of like, and I tried to quit a bunch of times and never fully committed to it. And then just one day I was in Spain. I was in Barcelona. I had a crazy night. I was really hungover. And I was just like, I think I actually finally am done with this. So I stopped and it was really hard because I was on tour. And then I took a whole bunch of time off. I like called my manager, you know, that week I

quit drinking. And I basically was like, when I get home from this tour, I need to clear everything off my schedule. I had like a few shows, a few things on the docket. And I was like, let's, I need to cancel everything. And I just need to take like the next year or so off to just like really get my head on straight. And it was like really beautiful and also really hard. And that's when I made St. Cloud. I wrote St. Cloud in that time. And so, yeah, like it was, I was such a raw nerve at the beginning. And when I made that record, like I was just kind of, a ball of anxiety, and I really struggled to write it.

But then once I did write it, I felt like this actually feels like the most clear-headed thing I've ever made. And then, obviously, you know, I was sober when I made my new record, Tiger's Blood, and that record was, like, actually really easy. I had, like, an easeful time writing that compared to St. Cloud or other records. And I just think like I attribute that to having just done a lot of work on myself and like really kind of gotten to know myself better. I just I do kind of generally feel like a calmer person. Just I think it comes with age, but also with sobriety and like all the work I do around sobriety. So anyway, yeah, I think I, I think undeniably, like my opinion is that I've made my best work by far since I got sober and I hope that keeps happening. I think it will. I hope so. Just so you know. Yeah. And I do think it's nice to talk about it. Cause I think there

are probably a lot of sober people listening and probably a couple people who need to or want to get sober um and it'll be helpful for them that moment in Spain that you described a lot of my sober friends um you know hit rock bottom and feel like it's like I got to my worst place and was like never again it doesn't sound like it was was it that for you I don't know honestly like I think my rock bottom actually happened like maybe like a year before that. Um, and I had quit drinking. It's funny. Like I'd kind of hit what I would call a real bottom at like the beginning of 2017. And then I went on tour with Kevin and we sort of fell in love and I was, I had quit drinking for a bit and I was not drinking at that time. And then we started dating and like my life kind of kept going.

And then I sort of slowly integrated drinking back into the fold. And it was interesting. Like Kevin was a really good nonjudgmental mirror, um, of like, Oh, you drinking is different than you not drinking. That's just something I'm noticing. Kind of like he was really, he really never like, you know, judged me. But he did kind of let me know that. And like, oh, that's, yeah.

And the way that he drinks, he, Kevin drinks, and the way that he drinks so much healthier than the way that I drank. Like that was interesting too. Like I went through my Saturn return and I moved away from Philly. I was living in Philly at the time. And all these things in my life were changing. And I went from having a lot of people that drank a lot around me to kind of suddenly not. Like a lot of my friends were sober, but I wasn't.

So anyways, for all those things, like it gave me a lot of reflection that I actually think the way that I'm engaging in drinking is problematic and I might need to take a look at that. Take a look at it. Yes. And then that led to being like, I should just stop. I should just stop. Yeah. So I would say I hit, I've hit some bottoms, but I wouldn't really describe that as like a real bottom. No. You talked about, hey, if I had a dollar for every time I hit a real bottom, you know what I'm talking about? Love now love it love it that's our caleb that's our caleb no but in all seriousness i am gay um no you were talking about the the juxtaposition between making saint cloud and making tiger's blood and i have been lucky enough to hear you talk about this a little bit in private and also with brad in public brad cook yes a brilliant producer who

we love imagine if brad was on this podcast it'd be really good brad please come on the pod i would love that. I think the world of Brad. Yeah. We're new friends, but I'm like literally. He loves you. The moment I met Brad, I was like, this is one of my people. This is my guy.

This is my kind of guy. And Caleb, he literally has said the same thing. He has. He really has. He loves you. I love Brad. I think he's, I do. And obviously I love his work.

Like I have been a fan of his work before I even knew him, which is a strange thing that has been happening a lot in my life the last couple of years um yourself included but the those two I feel like um when somebody has a big a big record like like uh St. Cloud was and it gets a lot of attention and people really love it and then you go to make another record I feel like artists have this choice they have to make between am I going to give am I going to give the people something brand new that they didn't even know I could do? Or am I going to give them like a continuation of the things I've been exploring or the sound or whatever?

And I feel like you, um, you and Brad explored that a little bit when you were making tiger's blood. Yeah. Of like kind of where, what direction you were going to go with it. Will you tell people about that? Yeah,

absolutely. Um, I feel like talking to you about this stuff is so different cause i can like joke around and it's just i feel a little less like i have to be like serious uh yeah yeah what if what if you started joking around i was like can you be serious actually this is serious no you can joke here i know i can just relax and i hope you are and i am um so well okay so you know, Brad's like one of my very, very best friends. He's literally like family to me. We were talking about what we were going to do next, like right away.

And we kind of are continuously like having these conversations. I really, when I talk about like working with him, and I'm sure other producers and artists, collaborators feel similarly. sure other producers and artists collaborators feel similarly but a really something that feels really um like uh real between me and Brad is that like I would say that our relationship our working relationship is like 90% just us talking like we're just like building a world and I feel like we've kind of built this like shared like philosophy over the years um so we were talking we were talking about what we were going to do and something that I think we both really wanted to like be confident to the other. So we weren't really talking about our like fear or vulnerability around

following a record like St. Cloud up. We were both definitely feeling it. But we did say, I think the thing that Brad said early on was like, you know, I just, I want people to know it's not a fluke that we made that record.

You know, that's the that's that's all our big hope was. It's like, let's make let's at least make something that's, you know, we feel as good about as we do about St. Cloud. So that was kind of what we were saying. And I think, you know, obviously, when that record when St. Cloud came out, my audience grew a lot. And, you know, it was such a pivot from like what I had done previously. So obviously that's a little bit of a roll of the dice. We were kind of nervous about it. And then people really reacted well to it, which is very validating.

And yeah, I think that we kind of put pressure on ourselves. And I don't know why, and I've talked about this a little bit. I think that we just kept using words like, it's going to be big. It's got to be huge. It's got to be epic. It's got, you know, and I don't really know what that like meant. It was just very like ambiguous, but we were like hyping each other up a lot. It's just like massive.

And I think that what that actually did equate to is like pop I think that we were kind of like maybe we'll do like something that feels a little more mainstream or pop um which is so incorrect for us um but but we couldn't help but toy with that um so we were kind of talking about that and we started like well first we demoed we did a demo session with MJ Linderman Jake my dear friend um incredible incredible he has an album coming out um just put a single for it she's leaving you yeah oh yeah she's leaving he's got Joker lips that's the second single so good um but we had him in the mix and we were just jamming it was literally like he was playing drums I was playing guitar it was like really sloppy and like fun and just kind of like you know just really organic feeling and

that was so exciting and then we demoed my song right back to it and had him sing a harmony and everything just kind of shifted like the energy in the room just kind of got really focused after that we're like oh this feeling that we're all feeling we have to like chase after that and then Jake had to leave so then we were like okay well maybe let's pull up my song 365 and we're like let's pull that song up and let's try to program a beat to it and like we were sort of like saying without saying like let's try and let's try the pop side of it let's see how that feels and it was so crazy like it felt so bad I literally like dissociated and was just like on my phone like googling stuff and not listening to what was happening and Brad sent everyone home like it was like maybe 2 p.m. and I like overheard him

like send the engineer and um one of the players home and I was kind of like why did Brad just send everyone home at 2 p.m. um and then we went outside in the backyard at his house, and we had this, like, beautiful heart-to-heart. We both cried, and we were both just, like, you know, scared. Like, oh, my God, we're about to follow this album that means so much to us up, and what are we going to do? And where we landed was, like, what we just did with Jake and how we were all just, like, jamming.

That felt really good, and I think we just need to follow that, and I just don't think we need all just like jamming that felt really good and i think we just need to follow that and i just don't think we need to like over complicate it so we just you know we put a band together of like amazing players who went to the same studio had the same engineer kind of did everything the same with just a different group of people so and you made an incredible record that everyone's loving thank you that's the facts thank you so much it has been interesting i've seen the show now in, I saw the record release in Chicago. I saw opening night of your tour in Kansas city. Yes.

I saw the show in here, uh, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, London. Yeah. And which one will you be coming to on this? No shit.

Probably, probably one or two to be honest. I honestly would love it. I know you're not going to be in Casey in like the next few weeks. Are you? I am going to Kansas city. Cause we're flying to St. Louis. You're not going to be in KC in like the next few weeks, are you? I am going to Kansas City in a couple days. Because we're flying to St. Louis. What are you going to do in St. Louis?

Like two weeks from now. We spend the rest of the podcast like working out our social calendars. I'm like, hold on. We can cut this. I know Seattle's going to be a fun one. I pull out my phone. I'm like, uh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Truly what we do every time we hang out. Just being like, wait, okay, three weeks from now for 12 hours, where are you at? No, it is so good and it's such a beautiful record. I do wonder, like, you figured out the Waxahachie project pretty, like, you've been doing music for a while. You had lived in Alabama. Yeah. You had lived in New York, and Waxahachie came around the time you moved to Philly. No?

No, it started in Alabama. What? Yeah, I started. Oh, I really didn't know that yeah my first record came out in 2012 but I made that record in like 2010 um okay yeah um and I probably had done a couple shows um as Wax Hatchie in like as early as like 2009 um but I had another band before that called P.S. Elliot with Allison Alison was the drummer and we kind of kept going until about 2011. So there was some overlap. Um,

but yeah, I started doing music. I played my first like proper show when I was 15. So literally 20 years ago. So I've been doing it for 20 years. It's been a while. Yeah. I,

some, something happened when you moved to Philly that I was in my mind and I guess it wasn't, it wasn't that, but my point in all that is to say what, like, what would you, what would you say to an artist who's like really trying to figure out their

voice and like break through? And I feel like when you're starting out in whatever your art form is, it's so stressful that you're just like, there are so many things I could say and so many versions of this I could do and so many different people I could be that like I it feels I don't know if you remember that feeling or ever had it but it feels overwhelming yeah like what would you say to a young artist who's trying to figure that out yeah I think you have to like really try and intimately get to know like what's motivating you because I really think

now it's way more even than when I was starting like you know 20 years ago 2004 things were so different then um I think now you really try and have to like get to know what like why you're even doing it you know like are you doing it because you really want to make something amazing are you doing it because like you want to get rich which no shade like that's great too like are you doing it like what is it that's driving you what is it like who do you want to be rich, which no shade, like that's great too. Like, are you doing it? Like, what is it that's driving you? What is it? Like, who do you want to be? And I think once you really get to know that, then you can kind of like work out like your

path a little bit easier. It's always hard for me to give people advice because I think that there's so many different things that motivate so many different people. And what worked for me, my story is so like, well, shucks. I just kept doing it and now I'm doing it, you know? Yeah, like a really annoying advice. Kind of. Just kind of keep at it.

Yeah, just kind of keep at it. And I also like was really, really, really in my like local communities and scenes like all the way through. And really early in my career I wasn't even really trying to have a career I didn't ever think that was possible I just was like very excited to be with my friends and like that's why I played shows because I like wanted to like hang out and like be with everybody and just like play music you know it was just kind of for fun um and then slowly it just kind of started happening um which is the most annoying thing to say no it's the thing about advice always I feel

the same when like a young like a first starting out like an 18 year old like who's doing improv or something that's like how do you make a career in comedy I'm like I got so lucky I have really no idea you can work hard and be good yeah I think additionally nothing is like nothing annoys me more than like watching someone who's really successful like aggressively give someone who isn't like advice about well you need to fire this person or you need to do that or you need to you need to be being paid more you need to do this and I'm just kind of like I think you have like a different perspective yeah that was your thing that was kind of your thing and like I don't think you need to like tell this person to make that dramatic of a change it might

not work out the same for them yeah yeah yeah I mean I think the the only thing I ever think of that feels a little um applicable to anybody at least in comedy is like be prepared to pivot like just know like be prepared to pivot and like be be able to do many things well and don't rely on don't rely on one talent that you have. Like, get good at business and get good at, like, booking your own stuff and get good at, like, you know, you should be able to do podcasting and stand up and writing. And, like, there should be probably many things you're at least a little good at. Yeah, I do think, like, it's a real blessing for me that I'm a pretty decisive person. I think like being like having a really loud intuition has has afforded me a lot of like the good opportunities that I've had.

I think that that's something I do see. I see people who are so, so, so talented, but like are really not good at thinking on their feet. And that I think that that's something that is helpful. You know, I think we share that. I feel very grateful for that. I'm like, I do see if you put four things in front of me, it's very easy and very quick for me to go. That's the one.

Yeah, I do feel lucky for the same. Yeah. And the same and same and same about me. Yeah. What do you want? I ask people on the show all the time. It's kind of become like a de facto. It's interesting.

What do you want? Yeah. Like right now or, you know well it's funny you know it's funny because bob we just had bob on and he gave maybe the most pragmatic funny answer i've ever heard he was like i guess i want my next tour to sell out and then like plug the tickets and then he was like and then i want like chamoy candy tonight you know it was like very but i think what do you want i mean the show The show, we made so true about... Chance and I were talking about the show and going, well, I think I want to do a podcast again. I want to talk to people.

The show was about what feels true and what feels... Originally, we were going to debunk some stuff and get into the truth and all that kind of stuff because networks want to hear things like that. They want to be like, right now... It's become harder than ever to tell what's really real. They want to hear... In a time where it's impossible to decipher what's true. We're going to bring it to you from this gay community, you know? And so true has been a big part of it. And I do love it. But what do you want has become

a kind of a big part too. What do you, what does Katie Crutchfield want? Oh my gosh. Everything I want right now is so boring. I'm just like, everything is so boring I'm just like everything is so boring I'm like I I know at least one of your answers you want uh you want to farm with like alpacas I do want to farm with alpacas that's so that is so true that is so true about you um that's so true I want to farm with alpacas I want to be an alpaca farmer it's an interesting time to ask you specifically what you want because you're in the middle of this like tornado of an experience based on this thing you made. Yeah. You'll be in for still a while longer.

But what do you envision after that? Are you going right back to the studio? Are you making another album? Are you taking a break? I'd really like to take a break. Yeah. I really would like to take a break. I've been working on some new songs.

Wow. And yeah, I'm trying to decide like what I'm going to do with them. Cause I feel like it's, it's too, or I don't, I, I want to like live a bunch of life before I make another record. I think like, I want to have some new experiences. I want to age a little bit. I really want to be like 40 or almost 40 when I'm like giving my next thing, you know?

Thousands of Wax Hatchie fans just passed away and died, by the way. Well, and it's funny because I was saying that a lot to Brad and the last time I said it, he kind of looked at me and was like, no more. Don't say that anymore. Because he was like, well, it's because we don't know. And because I have been factually writing a lot of songs. So we don't know.

And I literally like, I think before I made Tiger's Blood Blood even or maybe it was before I made St. Cloud, I was like the next album I make will be and like a solo stripped down, just acoustic album. And then, of course, that didn't happen. I said that publicly a lot. So you never know what's going to fucking happen. it would take some time and really just kind of like focus on other things and just like my personal life and just kind of chill for a little bit and maybe write or maybe do other other creative things um but yeah I think ideally I'm gonna go hard for another couple years and then I'm gonna just like take a load off you know hey some people might be surprised when your acting career comes around but I will not be one of them I know the acting career load off you know hey some people might be surprised when your acting career

comes around but i will not be one of them i know the acting career is coming you know what i i would if the right thing came along and i i acted um in my in our friend chris good's um uh future movie that he's working on um and i like i have a little tiny part and I like for friends and with the right people around me like I'll a hundred percent I'll a hundred percent give it a shot I don't think I'm really cut out to do something serious I think I could I can like be like like I could be like a bigger character which doesn't really fit with my personality I don't think because as we've established I'm kind of shy you're a little you're a little bit mysterious just a little bit I could see it I could see you acting I could see you I could see you doing all kinds of things writing interesting as well it's it's interesting

to me when musicians do substacks and yours is really good thanks yours is a lot of fun thank you so much I really want to be like a like like I want my like fashion side to be more into it and so I'm trying to like insert that in a little without being too heavy handed about it. But that's kind of why I started Substack is because I really miss like talking about my or like showing my outfits and stuff. And like that was always kind of a thing when I was on Instagram that I felt like people liked. So I'm kind of trying to insert that into my Substack a little more. But it's fun. I just like to kind of like talk about what I'm listening to and what I'm wearing and like just like the simple things in life really it's nice to like I think

the I didn't call myself an artist for like most of my life I think I really started to think of myself as an artist when I was in my like into my 20s and I my whole life before that did not think I was an artistic person I couldn't draw I couldn't I didn't play instruments I was I played sports and I did like student council and stuff and I more and more have begun to think of like being good with people as an art form in its own but I never thought of myself as artistic and then the second that I did it opened up everything to me and I felt like so like you just I feel artistic about everything I feel like yeah everything feels open to me like I feel like when you call yourself an artist and when you allow yourself to feel creative,

yeah, your clothes start to feel artistic and you're, I say I'm wearing Realtree in jeans. And it's art. And it's working. No, but you start to feel like anything can be like creative expression. Absolutely. And I mean, I really feel like what you wear

is a huge creative expression. And I've said for years, like that's like a huge creative expression. And I've said for years, like how that feeds into my songwriting and music. Like it's just like another form of like getting my creative juices flowing. It's a really big part of it for me. Yeah. What do you think? I don't know if I've ever asked someone this question

and you don't have to answer it. If you don't like it, theme of the show, you don't have to answer my questions. But flash forward to like all the records you will make and have made at the end of it what do you what do you think you'll want people to have said Waxahachie's music was about or was like oh gosh um you know I've I just have always hoped people would think like she had integrity and she was good at writing songs. And that's sort of all I really care about. Like that people just think it's good. Um, and, and that the songs are,

they're catchy, but the lyrics are, are, you know, meaningful to people and it's kind of really that simple. Yeah. I just, I, I, my heroes have kind of changed as i've um gotten older but like one of my biggest heroes is tom petty i'm like i just want to i would love to be like tom petty like people to just like can like sing along the songs because they're fun and they're like really um catchy and they're like these big pop songs but they're also like the lyrics are amazing. And yeah, so I think like that's someone whose career I really look up to. What's a lyric you think about all the time? A lyric of Tom Petty's or anyone's.

Any lyric that you think about all the time? You know what? A lyric I think about all the time, which I wonder if you like this song, is the first like verse of the song Valentine by Fiona Apple. I didn't see a Valentine. You sent it via pantomime. Or you didn't see my Valentine. I sent it via pantomime.

Or you were watching someone else. I stared at you and cut myself. So it's just like there's, it's so great. I actually cut that because I don't know if I got that right. But it's going out live. It's going as a clip. Yeah. Well, Fiona Apple, I love she has because she wrote a song about Largo oh yeah which is pretty cool there's one called Largo I love that pretty cool I love her I think randomly all the time you know Andy Deruso and I will text text we sometimes will just randomly

send each other this lyric like either in text or a screenshot i think all the time i think it's a clay walker song he says um and it's he's not it's not my favorite song he's not my favorite artist i just think of this lyric constantly um he has a song called she won't be lonely long do you know that song no but he has a lyric in it where he says tonight she wants to hold a stranger but not the one at home tonight she wants to hold a stranger but not the one at home tonight she wants to hold a stranger but not the one at home that I there's something about that lyric is seared right in my it's a great song and your voice hey you know what a lyric I think about a lot is go the drinking bones connected to the party bones connected to the staying out all night long yeah she won't think it's funny

and I'll wind up all alone and the lonely bones connected to the drinking bone Tracy Bird the drinking bone dude that song Caleb blew our minds with that song that song is like you brought that song into my life

that song went quintuple platinum in my uncle's garage like that song that song is that song is that song is for a guy drinking alone in his Morton building. That song is ooh I love that song.

So good. Country music man. Ugh. That's something we really connect on. It's like 90s country. I did not know you liked country music.

No we really do. Especially women. Yeah especially women. You and I love women. And we support women. We can't be stopped from loving women I know people try all the time they say quit at you too I know can't be stopped Katie what's so true to you I've gone back and forth about what I'm gonna say because I I think there's a lot of different things I could say that would like show different parts of my personality but something that's really been weighing on me is something that's so true to me is I'm really annoyed that people keep saying brat summer is over whoa it's really rude it's really rude there's literally like articles written about it

and in fact I was at a festival in England and I said something about Charlie and they were like well you know brat summer is over and I was like excuse well, you know, Brat Summer's over. And I was like, excuse me. I haven't heard them saying this. It's really not cool. I'm over it. It's not over. I still listen to the album like every day because the thing is, is one of our greatest artists,

one of our generation's greatest artists made her greatest album. Yeah. And it can't be over yet. Sorry. Like it's, it's only been out for like two months. I will say. Summer's not even over.'s not over but i will say i knew that she was going to suffer this because the second it came out and the second the the type of gay man attached to it who did

immediately i was like this is gonna shine bright and fast because the pendulum's gonna swing it'll come back it'll come back but joe manchin did a brat summer tweet, you know? So I, and I understand like if people are saying that that's why it's over is because Joe Manchin made a brat tweet. Like I get that, I guess, but I'm like, we got to still celebrate the album.

Cause it's a real like masterpiece. And that like, I feel like that's something that's just sort of happening in our culture. Like things just happen so fast and people like make masterpieces and then very quickly people are like, okay, but it's over now. And I,

I just think it's snarky and rude and not true. So you're not having it with people declaring the end of it. No, I'm not. It's not over for me. It won't be. Honestly, it won't be over for me for a long time.

You, you have been bumping that. You've been bumping that for a while. Yeah. You've been playing it all the time. I've heard you playing. I literally, when we just play, I wrote a sub stack about it, but when we were just playing in London, it was really sweet.

Like, I was in my dressing room, and the window was open. It was just, like, gray and, like, crisp and, like, London-y outside. And I, like, popped my head out the window, and I just saw this, like, long line of people waiting to come into my show. And so I just put my little speaker right at the window, and I just blasted Brat. I was like, I'm just going to play Brat the people that are, that are waiting to get in. Do you think they heard it?

Yeah, I think so. I don't know if they did, but they had to have, cause I was playing it pretty loud. If you were in line for Katie's London show at O2 Kentish forum, you need to make some noise in the comments that you heard this. Yeah.

You need to know that it was Katie doing it just for you. That's really sweet. That show was really good. It was really special. Yeah. That was a really fun one. I love London. It's like one of my favorite cities to play in.

And, um, we had a blast. They were lit were lit they were like screaming they were screaming words to songs that like I kind of thought I thought it was more of like an inner circle thing you know what I mean yeah they're getting some of the words that I'm like damn everyone here is a mega fan it was really cool I agree you know what else too like the politics of of where people stand at shows like it's a little bit messy um and they did it just right like i really think if you're gonna

be in the front like if you're gonna be that person that's a that's a big responsibility because if you're in the front just know that we i see you i see you crystal clear and i'm looking for friends i'm scanning to try and find my people. I'm looking for allies. I'm scanning. I'm looking for you. And I think a lot of people who have been in that position know, like, I'm making eye contact. We're singing the songs together. And the thing about the people in the front is, like,

you have to bring the energy. You have to. Like, if you don't, then that basically reflects on, like, our performance, then makes us give a less energetic performance. And it's a cycle and it's, it's, it's a whole thing. It's reciprocative. It's,

it's, it's reciprocal. It really is like we're exchanging energy. And, but the other, the other side of that coin is that you also can't be too much because then if you're too much, then you distract us.

Yeah. And it's a little bit, so you, you have to have the perfect balance for it to be like the best show ever, i'm very blessed there's a lot it's really really good most of the time and that show was pitch perfect it was just like i had all of my people in the front they were having fun they were giving energy i was giving them energy and it was so great it was a fun crew after the show so fun yes people were there shod. Shad was there. Shad was there. Liam was there. You should have Shad and Liam on the podcast.

Shad and Liam. Shad and Liam, come on the pod. I did. I connected with Shad. I made a new friend that night. I think Shad will agree with me that Brad Summer's not over.

I agree with you. Yeah. I'm with you. Thank you. I'm really supportive. That was a great So True. People are going to love that. Thank you.

The listeners are going to eat that up. That's a really good So True. Thank you. I have a segment for you. Oh yeah, I forgot. The true false? I'm going to be really bad at this, just so you know. The true false. Well, you did also hedge your really great Alabama

story with it not getting, maybe not getting a reception and it was received really well in the room. I hope so, yeah. You ever like tell a story and you're like, shit, I think this is going like a little too long. That's how I felt when I was telling the Alabama story. That's my career. Okay.

No, it is not. That's me on stage. No, you tell a perfectly timed story always. It really is tough when you're, I just did this in London. I did two nights in London of like a lot of new material. And I will say, both shows were great. Thank you all for coming. But first night was so hot that i thought the material was like way

farther along than it is yeah even though it's like pretty new material i should know better and then the second show was like really good it was a really good show i'm being genuine but i was getting sick um like so like to the point where i had to comment to the audience like i'm gonna be drinking a lot of water and like i'm coughing a little bit because i'm getting sick um but they uh i got to that point in a couple of my stories where i was like because i tell a lot of stories up there i got to a point in a couple where i was like oh you have you have you're confident because the first night went so well and you need to wrap this up isn't that so it's really like sad but sometimes when we have like a less than perfect show ellie my my dear

friend and bass player she has kind of put this in my head of like well you know dang we didn't have the best show but tomorrow that means tomorrow night's gonna be really good yeah and that's really kind of true and sometimes when you have a really good show then you're kind of hit with like okay but I can't have two great ones in a row you know um and sometimes you do but you know well it's like a there's anytime something amazing happens to me, the feeling of elation is cut at least a little bit with sadness that I know it can't last forever. I know. That knowledge will join me at some point.

Of course. And then I'll be like, oh. You know, I just want good times to last forever. Of course. And Kevin Morby lyric, goodbye to good times, never want to. Okay, 15 statements I'm going to times to last forever. Of course. And Kevin Morby lyric. Goodbye to good times. Never want to. Okay. 15 statements.

I'm going to read to you. You have to tell me as quickly as you can if you think they're true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, Katie, I'm going to give you 50 US dollars. Do people like give it back? Like do they pay it forward? Or do they take the 50? Most of them never get paid. Okay.

That's the secret of the show. Okay. But you're different. Because we are going to dinner tonight, you and I, so I'm sure I'll find a way to make it up. Okay. So A is the most commonly used letter in the English language. False.

False. It's E. The T-Rex is the largest animal to have ever lived. False. False. It's the blue whale. Nick Saban was born in Athens, Georgia. Oh, fuck.

True. False. Fairmont, West Virginia. God damn it. Greenland is the largest island in the world. True. True. Cheesecake comes from Italy. True. False. Fairmont, West Virginia. God damn it. Greenland is the largest island in the world. True. True. Cheesecake comes from Italy.

True. False. Greece. God damn it. Rabbit from Winnie the Pooh uses she, her pronouns. True. False. He, him.

I misgendered rabbit. Yeah, you misgendered. God damn it. Not a good look. Dr. Pepper is the oldest soft drink in America. False. True. Infants have more bones than adults.

False. True. That is creepy. A cockroach can live for nine days without its America. False. True. Infants have more bones than adults. False. True. That is creepy. A cockroach can live for nine days without its head. True. True. Samuel Beckett rode a streetcar named Desire. False.

False. Tennessee Williams. Swope Park in KC is more than twice the size of Central Park in NYC. True. True. Let's go. Kansas City, shout out. Since 1912, Olympic gold medals are actually silver with gold plating.

False. True. That's fucked up. I medals are actually silver with gold plating. False. True. That's fucked up. I know. The world's gotten really bad. Monster energy drinks were invented in 1989. True. False. 2002. The space between your eyebrows is called the glabella. True. True. A monkey was the first animal sent to space.

True. False. It was fruit flies. How'd she do? Out of what? Out of 15. Oh, that's not so good. I knew. I knew. I was like out of 10? No, you did really good. I knew that when you asked the Nick Saban question when I was wearing this shirt, I was going to get it wrong. You knew it. I knew I was going to get it wrong. Yeah. You knew you were a little cooked. Yeah. You did pretty good. Well, wait, I have a question for you. Okay. What is your perfect day in Kansas City where we both live? Oh my God.

People might not know that we're kind of neighbors. We literally live two minutes away from each other. Kind of cute. It's kind of beautiful. Like Caleb's like gone and brought in my packages and things like that. You've been a really good neighbor to me. You've asked a lot of me. I have.

I actually have. He's not even kidding. And I honestly like if any, at any point I can return the favor. I've done like one single favor for you. Please let me. You let Kevin's parents in that time when they were locked out. Yeah, I know. The list does go on and on.

You're right. It goes on and on. No, but it's nice. It's really cute. My perfect day in Kansas City. Gosh. Gee whiz. I think I would wake up.

I would go to Billy's Grocery. You love Billy's Grocery. I would go to Billy's Grocery. Leawood location or Midtown. Who knows? Either one. Yeah. Honestly, depending on where I am waking up, which i know where i'm waking up and i know which location i'm just gonna kind

of stay mysterious with that one um then i would maybe go to the nelson adkins walk around the nelson adkins walk around like the the you know lawn of the the Nelson Adkins See a big shuttlecock Why not Why not See a big shuttlecock Um Geez What else

I would definitely go to Luce Park It's my favorite park in town Yeah Love Luce Yeah Um Dinner at Earl's Premier

You love Earl's Premier I love Earl's Premier Dinner at Earl's Premier Um Ice cream from French Custard Ooh Go to Big Mood Ooh

And have like an N.A NA Negroni and maybe there's like a good DJ or something and then maybe go to the Green Lady. Ooh. Here's some jazz.

Should we all get on a plane to Kansas City right now? God damn, that's a good day. Yeah. That's like my basics. Yeah. There's a bunch of,

there's so many. I could go on and on and on. There's so many good things to do in KC. We had a really sweet night recently this summer. It was hot out out so i think it was the summer where we went to french custard oh yeah we went to waldo thai and then went to french custard yeah me and kevin and we sat on the bed of kevin's truck and yes and listen to music and i almost said drank ice

cream ate ice cream um yeah well it was hot it was hot we drank a little bit i love that like like sitting in the back of kevin's truck at french custardy and ice cream is really one of my happy places i really truly you know those moments when you're hanging out with your friends and you're like struck by how special it is and i think it's because we all i mean it's special regardless but we all travel so much yeah and i knew that we were coming up on a bunch of travel and we're all going to be apart and being together specifically in Kansas city. Like I knew I was going to see Kevin at one point and you at one point and

I'll see Tara at one point. But when we're all together in Kansas city, I just was like, I vividly remember the feeling of being there with you guys that night and having that like thing that washes over you of like, Oh, really try to take this in. This is special.

I, every time I'm with you guys, like when, every time it's the four of us, I really feel that way. I just had dinner with Tara like the night before I left at the Town Company, which is a great restaurant in Kansas City. Have you been there? Town Company? No, actually. It's fantastic.

Which is crazy. It's like Tom's Distillery is right over there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kansas City. It's so good. What a place. It's so good god Kansas City it's so good what a place it's so good yeah Kansas City art well you know there's that Charles Goosewell quote that I think I've shared with you about Kansas City that he says something to the effect of Charles Goosewell was like this um columnist

in Kansas City for a very long time very famous Kansas City columnist who I actually didn't know he was before my time but I was going through a big box of like vintage books that my mom had thrifted for me for my den in Kansas in my house in Kansas City and I found this like um book this like pamphlet about Kansas City with this guy's quote in the front and he and I'm probably going to butcher it to some extent but he said something to the effect of like um it used to be with when someone asked me how long I've lived in Kansas City I would say with a bit of provincial shame all my life but now I say it as someone who knows his luck it's where I've laid up my rich store of friends wow really beautiful it is really beautiful it's a special place I when I moved there I was so jaded about like everywhere in America because I traveled so much I toured so

much and I was just so like I just don't want to live anywhere, which sounds really dark. But like I was just like every city I was like, I don't know. And I was living in Philly at the time and I knew I wanted to leave. And then I visited KC with Kevin and was just so struck by like how much I loved it. Yeah. And I still feel, I'm like still very much in love with Kansas City. It just hasn't wavered. I am too. It's a perfect place.

Well, no, there are many things we could change, but it has great vibes. It has great vibes. And, um, you and I are hosting on, uh, in November, you and I are hosting the third, our third annual benefit show for the Kent city tenant union. And I'm so excited about it. We're hosting it on November 23rd. Is this the Casey tenant benefit reveal right now? Oh my God. This will come out when we're hosting it on november 23rd is this the casey tenant benefit reveal right now oh my god this will come out when we're gonna when we need to post and that is so smart that is so smart and it's also so true so true but um katie and i uh caleb heron waxahatchee benefit show for the tenant union november 23rd at the midland theater in kansas city we're gonna have a bunch of our musician and comedy friends out it's gonna be great and we're gonna raise a bunch of money we're gonna raise a bunch of our musician and comedy friends out. It's going to be great. And we're going to raise a bunch of money. We're going to raise a bunch of money and the

benefit, it keeps growing and it's just like such a fun night. And I think we're going to have a blast. It's going to be great. We're going to raise some money for an amazing cause. It's our third year. It's going to be huge. And yeah. And by the time this episode comes out with Katie, we'll have the link ready for the tickets and we'll have an Instagram page that we'll link in the description of the episode and everything. You guys guys please go follow. And if you live in Kansas city, please get tickets. We'll start to release the lineup a little while after this episode comes out, but it's going to be a good one. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything you want to plug or tell the people where they can find you? Um, I don't know where you can find me, but like I'm out there,

you know, I have a sub stack, um, that I, that's like really my favorite thing to put out there. So look that up. Um, and I'm going on tour literally in like a matter of days. Um, the tour starts in Vancouver and it goes to the East coast. We're going to be up and down the East coast and there's a bunch of shows and some of them are sold out and some of them aren't.

So Katie will be performing in North America when this episode comes out. Go find her and also stream Tiger's Blood wherever you listen to music. Yes. I love you so much. I love you too.

Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. I don't understand why people talk so bad about you. You are fun. I know. I get a bad rap. I really do.

I do.