So True with Caleb Hearon - Yedoye Travis is Stretching

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Yedoye Travis! Yedoye and Caleb talk best book recommendations, Dragon Ball Z, early influences in comedy, hat clones, and more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Yedoye! @yedoye_  Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloudExclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/SOTRUE. Promo Code SOTRUE Head to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE. Philo’s where all the best TV comes together! 70+ live channels, unlimited DVR, with access to HBO Max Basic With Ads, AMC+, and discovery+ Sign up to start watching now: https://bit.ly/4oiweFq Feeld is a dating app for the curious. For those who are intentionally seeking meaningful connection. For those who are looking for community. For those who are tired of job interview-style dating and want more. Curious? Trying new things is hot. Download Feeld. To get 15% off your unique gifts this year, go to https://uncommongoods.com/sotrue Fabletics already has amazing deals, but right now they're running their biggest sale of the year on top of that. And I've got an exclusive offer just for you— head to https://Fabletics.com/SOTRUE and sign up as a VIP to get 80% off everything. About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1  » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum  » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan. So True is engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We're all out of the ordinary. Harry. This is a headgum podcast. Are there like three books that you're like, you would recommend them to anyone or to me specifically that you're like, you must read these? Okay, what are your goals in reading?

Fantastic question. There is a girl who works at the bookstore. Fight club. Dude, what's up? Oh, you know, we're just having a podcast. You know what they call it, having a podcast. Yeah, you know what we should do? We should have a podcast.

You know, it's having a podcast reminds me of like, I got in trouble with a bunch of my friends when I, after I went to Europe for the first time, because I stole some of their turns of phrase. Everyone started making fun of me. I couldn't help it. I like the way they say some things. Oh, you stole the Europeans turns of phrase.

Oh, yeah. Oh, they talk bad, though. But you know what? They say some fun stuff. Like, they say, like, someone, I picked up from them, someone say, like, oh, are you going to be in town on the 17th? You say, I'm meant to be. I like that. Okay, I do like that.

I'm meant to be. I like that's very British, though. Yeah. I thought you were saying, like, like, Europe, Europe. There you got some. No, fake British Europe. Okay. I like, I like, I like the British. What's another thing?

What's another thing I did that you got mad at me for? The biggest one by a mile is you don't say come to my house. You say come to mine. Come to mine. Oh, I like that. That's evil. Yeah, you think? That's a little evil.

cut you off. What were you saying? I think I like black British phrase, like, my youth. Yeah. Myute. Am I allowed to use that? I don't know. Because I don't know. I'm not as well versed in like the the gatekeeping of Black Britain. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm not going to give it to you on their behalf. No, I'm not going to try it either. You can't take that off me. Just so you know. Yeah. I'm not going to try it at the moment. Okay. What is that my, what is, well, fuck. What does that mean? You're a you. You're my youth. You know, you like my youth. You're like my.

You're like my friend. Oh, like, buddy, pal. Like buddy. Okay. Like, you lot. Yeah, yeah, you law, I can definitely do. You lot is good. I'm allowed that one.

I like you lot. You can't say it like that though. No. You lot. Well, it's just tricky because it's, it's, it's, it's, the accents get tricky because sometimes it's not just British. There's another element. Right.

Going on. And then it's like, well, what am I doing? Right, right, right. And I also don't know. Yeah. I cannot tell. No, you have to tell me. I have to tell me.

I have, I'm reaching, I'm reaching into other people's talking. this, I truly don't know. Being a white guy, yeah, it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, cool, cool, cool.

Yeah, no, I love to, example. I mean, this, for example, like, this was crazy. Can I say that? Can I not say that? Right, you mean this moment right now? Yeah. Yeah. Can I say the thing?

Can I not say, that's hard. Yeah, well, you can. Yeah, I'm not going to try it. Could you imagine I say it and we find out it's some horrible thing in Britain? I would love that so much You would love to see To see you get canceled

Yeah Do you really I well see Here's the thing Is it's always fun to watch Yeah It doesn't matter who it is Yeah

I think you're a very kind man You know You've been great to me You're a kind guy But like From a from a distance I'd watch Whose cancellation have you enjoyed the most

Um You know what I didn't expect you to ask me For an example Now I'm thinking about it I got a kind heart, man. I don't like it. You feel like a sweetie to me.

Yeah. I don't, I don't like watching people get canceled. It's a very bad experience. I'm also notorious flip-flopper. Yeah? It's my thing. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Taking big stances and then taking it back? Yep. Yeah, I walk it right back. What's your biggest? What do you think should have been your biggest? Do you remember one?

That one just now. Just not was your biggest ever. That was it just now. That was the one that established me as a flip-flopper. Yeah, before that you were not a flip-flopper. Before that, I was absolutely not a flip-flopper. genesis of your flip-flopping. Me becoming a flip-flop is the biggest flip-flop for me.

Oh, man. I'm so excited to have you here. I haven't seen you in a minute. Last time I saw you, I think, was at the basement of Union Hall. Yeah. Yeah. This was like, and I was on my way out, too. That was barely even a sighting.

No, it was horrible. I went upstairs to try and find you because I felt, but I actually felt bad. I, we had a quick hug and a hello, and then I lost you. Yeah. And then I came up to be like, I was like, I put in my head, I said, I'm going to talk to your door when I get upstairs. And then I went up there and you were gone. Yeah, that's been my way of being the past year.

Yeah? I've been very in and out. Slipping out? Mm-hmm. What do you think that's about? You know, it's been quite a year of, I just don't want to be outside. Yeah. You know, that's, I don't even know if there is more to it than that.

I just, you know, sometimes you have that, you have those times in your life where you're you're like, I've had enough. Yeah. Not in like a, not in like a, um, like a, no one be worried. You know what I mean? It's not in that kind of way. No one be worried. Nobody stress out.

Yeah. But, you know, sometimes you're just like, I've seen it. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I've been at Union Hall. Yeah. Before. I know what goes on over there.

Yeah. And, uh, and it's been very much that kind of year for me. I've been doing the same thing, the same three things all year. What are they? I've been, I've been going to work. I, I'm a carpenter in, the theater. Yeah. I've been doing stand-up and I've been playing soccer. You, okay, I knew all these things about you. And I'll say a fourth thing that I think you're doing that you didn't

mention. Yes. You're stretching. I'm stretching. I'm stretching. That in many ways is an auxiliary thing to playing soccer. Yeah. But yes, I am stretching. You're really stretching. I see you stretch online and I go, I got a stretch. He got a stretch. Because you're doing really good at it. Thank you. And it's inspiring to me. Thank you. I have definitely added that to my personality. That's become a big part of me in the past year or so. It's a huge pillar of you to me now. Yeah. It's stretching. Yeah. When I think of, I'm not even

kidding you. I was at the gym the other day, and I was kind of phoning in my stretching. I'm dead serious in my head. I was like, you do I would hate this. You know what? He would hate to see you like this. You know what? Here's the thing, though. Yes. But also, I think people,

this is going to sound crazy after I've been established as the stretching guy. But I think people are are over-emphasizing the stretch. Really? When they, or they're doing the stretch at the wrong times. Because sometimes, you know,

when you stretch, you're unlocking positions that you're not comfortable in. Yeah. You're unlocking positions that you're not, you don't have the strength. Yeah. And then you're going out

and you're playing sports or you're going and lifting weights. You're putting yourself in a risky position. Yeah. You got to go lift the stuff, get your strength. And then you stretch after you, you know,

and you're relaxed and you're not planning on exerting a bunch of energy. You know what I mean? You're team stretch after the event? I'm team stretch after the event. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Get you a nice warm-up. Lubricate the joints, if you will. Yeah. And then stretch after the fact. You don't need, you don't need to be able to do the splits.

Yeah. You don't need that. Oh, I will never. You could. You could. I could, but I think we both know I would look hilarious doing the splits. I'm not going to look hilarious like that. Well, tell me I wouldn't look hilarious. Imagine me doing the splits right now and tell me you're not kind of giggling. I'm giggling a little bit. But also, I'll tell you whatever you want to hear.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Would you really? Yeah. I guess I do like that. I love hearing what I want to hear. It is tough to seek out hearing what you don't want to hear. Yeah.

Yeah. And sometimes, you know, because the things you don't want to hear, you got to hear. Yeah. You know, I tell, I've told, I've told a lot of people in my life that I don't want to be surrounded by yes men. Yes. But every time I say it, there's a little part of my head that's like, unless you really want to. If you really want to say yes to me all the time, I guess. Here's the thing, I think you either got to, you got to be around all yes men or all no men.

You know what I mean? I don't think you can ever, you know. You don't think there could be harmony between the yes and no men? I don't think, no, no, because I think, like, if you're around, if you're around, like, yes, man all the time and you hear no, it feels like, oh, so I, I'm just Jeffrey Epstein, huh? Yeah, yeah. So I'm Jeffrey Epstein, y'all. I guess I'm just Jeffrey Epstein, huh? Oh, I'm evil incarnate.

No, I guess I'm just, I'm just Hitler. Hearing no for the first time feels like being Hitler. Yeah, yeah. If you're surrounded by yes, man, yeah. Yeah, it does. It does. It does. And then if you're surrounded by no men forever and you hear your first yes, it changes you.

Yeah. You know, it changes you in a much less funny way. Yeah. You know, I don't have a bit prepared for that. But, you know, it's a different experience, you know? You feel like you have a lot of yes men or no men in your life? I think I have almost exclusively no men in my life. And it's, and it's.

great. It's a great thing. Yeah. I think you're supposed to have people in your life that are like, you don't do that. Don't do that. You're not that guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's not to say that like they're discouraging. It's just to remind. I feel like you need to be reminded of like who you are every now and then. Yeah. I lived alone for like two years and like I think you live, you leave that experience feeling like I could be anybody. I could, I have nobody seen me. for two years. I could be any guy. Yeah.

You know? They don't know what's happened. Yeah. They have no clue. They don't know what's going on in here. You know? In my layer. In my layer.

They don't know what links I got. Yeah. They don't know what I'm clicking. Yeah. You know what I'm clicking? You know what I mean? They don't know what I'm clicking. Yeah.

I feel like if you're living in the real world and you got, you got your like reasonable no people around you. Yeah. Then you got somebody to be like, hey, you, you, you, you, you, were not on that yesterday. Don't suddenly be on that today. You know? Yeah. Yeah, I guess maybe that would be not. Anybody who's whoever said no to me, I fired them or cut them off. Yeah, and that's going to change you in a crazy way. It already has. I've become a bad guy. And you know what? Maybe I met you as a bad guy and I don't know what a bad guy looks like. Yeah. Yeah. So you're in on

the illusion. Yeah. So I'm like, I met you at this point. Yeah. And so my character judgment is just Do you think you're a good judge of character? I think generally, yes. I think you are. But if I, if I, if I meet you at the wrong time, who knows? Yeah. Yeah. You know?

Okay. I'm a great judge of character. That being said. Who knows? I think, I think everybody could, I think everybody has a window in their life where they can kind of reset. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Where you can, like, gather new people around you. Yeah. And they can't tell for a little bit. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think that's true. Yeah. So, like, deception is real.

Yeah. So I think I think I'm a good judge of character, but I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of good judges of good judges of character. Yeah. You can, like, you can spot who's a good judge of character and you can know not to be around that person, if that makes sense. You can spot who's a good judge of character and you can know not to. You're saying if, okay, okay. If you're a bad guy. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can spot who can tell. And you stay away from that. And you stay away from those. Because you don't want to be found out. Yes. Yes, I'm with you 100%. Yes. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, I think I'm a good judge of character. I have been snowed very rarely, but when I got snowed, it hurt. What does that mean to be snowed? To get snowed, like to get the wool pulled over my eyes. Okay. I've been tricked.

Okay. Or bamboozled. Yes. Very rarely by people. Hoodwinked. Hoodwinked. Very rarely. Let us stray.

Let us stray. Let us stray. Run amok. Run amok. Fooled. What else is there? You just pull up. Malcolm X's autobiography.

Yeah, would you mind? Yeah, that would be great? Yeah, but the couple times it's happened to me, it's hurt deeply because I don't view myself as someone who that happens to. Right. You know? Yeah.

Yes. And I don't want it to happen again. Yeah. Won't get fooled again. I won't get, well, fool me once. What's that George Bush quote? Fool me once. Shame on you.

Fool me twice. Well, you can't get fooled again. Can't get fooled again. Did Jay Cole sample that? Who was who? Really one of his most iconic quotes, Bush. Yeah, Malcolm X, what a guy. You didn't need to really do that.

You didn't really need to. We take guest requests seriously on the show. All right, well, whatever you need. Have you been doing stand-up lately? I have been doing a little bit of stand-up recently. Maybe this is why this has been an inside year for me. I taped an hour in February. Congratulations.

Thank you. And just have not been able to do anything until it's done. You know? You know, sometimes you're just like, I got to finish the project or else I can never move on. I wish I had that quality. That sounds like an amazing quality to have. Well, I think it's ADHD is what it is. Is it?

Okay. Yeah. And so I've just been like, this thing has to be out in the world because I feel like it also, informs everything that I'm going to write from this point if that makes me, you know? It does. It feels like the the way

I went into it was like, this is the special that is going to establish what my voice is or what I believe my voice to be. And after this point, don't ask me no fucking questions about what my jokes are about. I'm not doing your little, I'm not

talking about how you can't say nothing no more. Because you can. Yeah. You can say something some more. And you can reference the work. You can, yeah. I have a piece that you can reference, that this is how I feel about stuff.

Yes. And it's the foundation of the things I'll do moving forward. Yes. What is, where are you at in the process? I have accepted that I'm not a good editor myself. I did most of the rough cut. And I pass it off to a friend who actually knows what they're doing. um so hopefully it'll be done by the end of the month nice if not early next year where do you know where it's

gonna live yeah it's gonna live on youtube hell yeah yeah yeah i love that yeah so you're the plan is to put it out 2026 um the very rough plan is just within the next month oh oh put it out in the next month yeah oh hell yeah i mean i knew it would be done but i didn't know if we were gonna like put it out fuck yeah let's go yeah yeah i can't sit on it anyway anymore that's exciting yeah i'm excited for that. Yeah, thank you. I can't wait. Everybody have to go watch. Everybody mark your calendars. Some point, this thing will come out and you have to go watch it. Yeah. I don't know if

I, I think maybe I said the name publicly somewhere, I don't, but I don't know where, but it's called fatherless behavior. Fatherless behavior. Yeah, cool. I can't wait to see it. I'm excited. Where'd you film it? Union Hall. Hell yeah. Union Hall is of this, like, interesting. I didn't, I started out in Chicago

doing comedy, and so, like, there this big thing that you would hope for for a couple years when you were like starting out in Chicago which is like man someday when I can like get venues in New York to book me yeah which is at first you know you're nowhere near that but then you start to get a little bit of traction you think like man if I got the right lineup I could maybe get like half the room full at Union Hall and it's this really Union Hall is this place that's like so exciting yeah to like go and then you get here and it I kind of wondered like oh now that I I don't really play like venues that small as often anymore? Is it something that'll

like fall out for me mentally? And it actually is such like a hodge point of the community. Yeah. Yeah. I think it and I think it kind of always will be if that makes it. Like I don't think anybody grows out of it. No. You know? David Cross still runs

his hour there however frequently he runs a new hour. Yeah. You know like I don't think anybody ever gets too big to go back there. It's my favorite place to perform. Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah.

I love running into buddies. I love seeing shows there. Yeah. I'd love to film something there someday. Like, I just think it's the best. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, there are rare, like, perfect venue. And I'm not, you know, the clientele upstairs pisses me off.

I don't like the people that hang out there, if I'm being honest. But, like, just in terms of shape. Yeah. In terms of, like, room shape. Yeah. It's such a perfect room. just like the perfect like low ceilings and i feel like you know every time i go every time i do a show there that's like my own show just because i look at park slope the the neighborhood itself

and i feel like these are not like yeah but then i feel like when i when i put on my own show at union hall like somehow somehow my people show up yeah you know it's just like i don't know it feels like a room that you can really like mold to whatever experience you want to have Yeah, you're not subject to the neighborhood as much. It feels like your people will come and fill that basement for you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. It's like, it's just, it's great. Did you

you, you're from Atlanta, and you went to school, you went to Emory? Yes. And you studied psychology? When you were in school in Atlanta, had you started comedy yet? Like, when did you? I don't think I know when you started. I started comedy when I was junior in college. It was the summer before my junior year, so

I was like 20 and I think I only started that late because I went to the other campus at Emory which is in Covington and so that there just wasn't a lot of places to do stand-up. I did it the first time when I was 18 at Laughing School. Not true

I did it the first time when I was 12 and then as an adult laughing school at 18 and then I didn't do it again for two years so I was doing stand-up the last two years I was in college and moved to L.A. immediately after I graduated, which was, I won't say a bad decision because I gained a bunch of, you know, life experience from it, did a lot of things that I wouldn't have done otherwise, but it's not a city that I ever want to live in again in my life.

Yeah. So, yeah. And then you came out here. yeah yeah yeah that's interesting why did you what do you think it why okay so why did you do do stand up when you're 18 and then and then not do it for two years like were you just busy with school or what was the i was i was it was partly that i was busy with school and part of me thought that i just wanted to try it um because i was the i was the guy that it was always like like in school just everybody's like oh you're so funny you should try you should do stand up one

yeah and so it felt like the it felt like a thing that like I should do it just to say I did it, you know? And I didn't really think I was going to do it again. And then I, once I was like close enough to it, it felt like, oh, I've wanted to do this since I was a child. Like, I wrote book reports about Eddie Murphy. Like, what are you talking about? Why would you ever think you didn't want to do this?

Book reports on Eddie Murphy is iconic. Yeah. You know those little, those little, like, biographies this thing you would get at the school library. Yeah. Like I just got what I just checked one of those out and did a book report on the on that. Hell yeah. That rocks. Have you met him? I have never met Eddie Murphy. Damn. You know, um, I don't know why I said that like I expected to ever meet him. I feel like you would have met Eddie Murphy by now. Yeah. He's around. He's, he's, he's not. He's making movies again. He's one of the most unaround people. You're really right. In black comedy. You're really right.

He's not really coming around at all. I met George Wallace. You like, George Wallace. I do like George Wallace. He's a great guy. One of the greatest Twitters in the history of Twitter. Yeah, absolutely. He really made that whole platform his own. Yeah, genuinely one of the funniest people I've ever seen. Where'd you meet him? I've met him a couple times in Atlanta. Last time I saw him was at Gotham. The one time I've performed there.

Yeah. Weirdly enough, Gotham got a new backdrop on the stage in like 2017 that I helped install because I was working because I do like set carpentry stuff. Didn't perform there for like five years after that. And on the night that I was there, George Wallace, Jim Gaffigan and Jerry Seinfeld all walked in while I was on stage. All told me I had a good set, which was cool. And then I think Seinfeld was supposed to follow me. And I took great pleasure in being able to say, hey man i would love to stick around and watch you but i got another show bye hey dude best of luck keep at it i got another set yeah i'm sure it would be a very regular set um but yeah who were your uh like when you were i mean obviously edy murphy who who else

were your you're like people when you were like uh growing up and coming into comedy um Richard Pryor was like my my absolute favorite I think which is very easy to say obviously but like I I remember when I was in college I had

I had no Wi-Fi at my at my apartment and my and my dad's place where I would go to visit so I would just like whenever I would go to my mom's house

I would download whatever movies I could and then take it back to or just like save him on to my little my PlayStation and watch them whenever I want. And so the movies I had were the prestige. And then I had Richard Pryor live on Sunset Strip. I've seen both of those like 30 times. Yeah. And actually the funniest line of the two is in the prestige. There's the scene where he's, you know, David, Bowie is Nicola Tesla. And he's like, they're, they're testing this, this cloning device.

that can clone not just organic matter, but also inorganic matter. And they make a bunch of copies of Hugh Jackman's hat to test this cloning machine that he's using to fake like a teleportation device. And he goes out into this field with like dozens of the same hat just like have been transported, have been cloned and transported out to this field. And Hugh Jackman goes, well, which one is? mine. And then David Bowie goes, they're all your hat, Mr. Angier. That's the big one.

It's so funny to me. And I don't know why. To this day, I don't know why it's so funny to me. Yeah. But I think it's just the word hat. Yeah. But also the fact that he had to say the word hat in the first place, like you see all these hats. it's like in case you would thought you forgot we were talking about a hat they're all your hat that is very funny i just i don't know i i i've done stand up for 13 years and in all that time it has taken me um so much energy to resist the fact that i'm ultimately a pun guy i love puns so much i love i love stupid wordplay and that, I feel like, falls into that category.

Yeah. Cup, I think, is the funniest word of all time. Cup is a good one. Cup is a great one. It's the hard sounds. Yes. It's the C and the P of it all. Yeah.

And yeah. Yeah. Yep. I love Richard Pryor was a favorite of mine growing up as well. And I actually just for the first time read, have you ever read the Hilton All's essay on Richard Pryor that's in white girls? No, I have not. It's really good.

I just read it for the first time. And I, yeah. I had never read something so... Like, I've seen a lot of Richard Pryor growing up. My dad showed me a lot of Richard Pryor. And I've always loved his work, but I hadn't ever read something so... Like, thorough and kind of...

I don't know about beautiful, but thorough and, like, careful about him. It was really, really well done. That whole book is great, but the essay on Richard Pryor, I think you might like. Okay. It was great. Yeah, I'd love that if you send that to me.

I'll send it to you. I'll make it happen. I'll just give you the book. I'll bring it over to you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, he has one of my favorite bits ever in that special is I just love the way he is really great

at personifying inanimate objects and like animals and things like that. Like his bit or his wife is leaving him and she's like getting in the car to drive away and he's like, you're not leaving me in this motherfucker, you ain't? And he shoots the tire. And the tire goes,

Ah! But he has this great bit about how his, he had these two pet monkeys. He got one originally, and the monkey would just like try to fuck everybody and everything, you know, because the monkey was too horny. So he got it a girl monkey,

so they could go out and fuck in the trees or whatever when the monkey was lonely. And then the monkeys died. I forget what happened. I think it was like a carbon monoxide. like poisoning thing and they both died and he was really sad about it and there was this dog that lived next door that saw him the dog saw him soaking in his yard and he just jumps over the fence and he goes hey what's wrong richard he goes my monkeys died man he goes oh man you didn't mean

them little monkeys that used to be fucking up in the trees man i was going to eat them too and he's just like man I'm sad man I miss my monkeys and you know well Richard it's going to be okay man you know you just got to keep your chin up Richard you know and he hops back over the fence

and then he turns back around as he's walking away and goes now you know I'm going to be chasing you again tomorrow Richard a brief man Coppa, a moment of allieship, but tomorrow it's back on. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace, SquareSpace. We love Squarespace. We just love you. Thanks for advertising on the show for a billion years. Squarespace is the all-in-one

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Him and Prior and Carlin are both so interesting to me because they like, they both came up doing like almost like Borch-Belt, like clean, like suit and tie type of rooms. and then they both like basically had like they hit breaking points and were like I can't fucking do this anymore. Yeah. And both then evolved into like their actual act. Yeah.

And I'm so fascinated by both of them having that path. Yeah. I think it must have been just the era. You know, they both came up in the in the 60s. Prior kind of one to be Bill Cosby in a way, Carlin just kind of coming up like got successful really early. you know and i i think about that a lot because um in some ways i had a similar trajectory not that

i was like that successful but like i was on tv i was in writers rooms and stuff like that and i i do think about like the guy i could have been had i just like kept my head down and never thought about about anything and just like i i get it i get it especially being especially being like that guy, like, as Vietnam is starting, and, like, just the world feels like it's getting shaken at its core. People are questioning, like, very fundamental things about, like, about America as an institution. You know, I think I would question more of the people that, like, just kind of stuck to what they were doing, you know? And just, like, kept their head down, never, never said anything, you know?

that was all the advice too like that was the the advice that they both got that the big advice for i was in this essay was talking about the big advice for richard was like if you want to be black and make it be be cosby yeah like just keep keep it cool do do the sweaters do the like tame thing for the white audiences yeah and for both of them way more radically obviously for prior but like for both of them to choose to talk about actual shit and to break out of that thing that like they probably could have made a pretty decent living for the rest of their lives just doing that, but they would have, like, it would have meant nothing. It would have mattered not at all. Right. Their work would have died with them. Right. And now they're going to live on

as legends forever because they actually decided to pay attention and give a shit. And I think that's so interesting. And applicable to right now, because I'm so bored and disappointed by so many people that are just kind of like cashing in and keeping it tame right now. Yeah. When I'm like, everything is so bad and could be so, you could be making such better jokes. Yeah. And you're just like putting it right down the middle so that you don't lose any brand deals or whatever. Yeah. And I'm fucking bored.

Yeah. And you know what I, I've struggled to, to like escape the feeling that it's in the nature of comedy as it is to do that. Just because comedy did, like, it didn't have to be this way, but it was born. out of capitalism. It exists because vaudeville was too expensive. Yeah. You know?

And people were just like, well, what if one guy stood on a stage with a microphone by himself? What if there was no overhead? Yeah, it's literally that. And everybody's like, yeah, nobody wants to fucking see that at first.

And then, you know, people got better at it and it started to look like a thing that could be marketable. But even now, like, the comedy booms as they've happened,

have sort of like happened as the economy booms also it's sort of i don't know just ebbs and flows with capitalism as it is and so it it does make sense in a way that people do that but like it just it is really disappointing to watch that like uh that people are content to sort of live unexamined and not really think and i don't know i i think part of it is Like, you know, I got a lot of perspective because, like, I did get a little bit fed up at one point. And I just started playing music again. I started playing bass. And I was going to jams a lot, pretty much all last year.

And just gaining perspective about what, like, preparation looks like as an artist, realizing, like, so much of the preparation happens offstage. All the serious stuff happens offstage. And you, I forget who said, I think maybe it was Frank Zappa that said like, you know, the, like, he put out a lot of silly ass music. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, the, there's a silly element to it, but like the music itself is deadly serious. Yeah. You know? And I think because the nature of performing comedy, it just feels like it's a fucking joke all the time.

It feels like you just know how to do it. And nobody really wants to do the, the difficult. prep work required to like say something new you know nobody wants to actually nobody wants to question their worldview nobody wants to read a fucking book that challenges anything they believe in already

yeah and the easy way to do comedy is just play to what everybody fucking knows already you know and it's it's just not interesting to me it's so fucking boring and you know it just

I don't know I think comics also sit in this in this space of like not knowing not knowing if we're important or not you know because in many ways like you look at Chappelle for example

and like putting out four specials back to back just like railing on trans people for no reason as you get this rise in transphobic sentiment in policy and on the ground just like person to person and like

you wonder how much of an influence he has on it and I'm and when that was happening I I was sort of of the mind that like maybe he's influencing that like his work is pushing this narrative forward and now I'm just like it feels like it's a lot more pathetic

to me that like y'all are really just you all are really just riding the wave of what's already happening yeah you're not even like pushing you're not even pushing the negative part forward you're just riding you're just coasting on on bullshit that's already happening you're truly just trying that hard to have a good set it is yeah yeah yeah because we all know every comic knows when you're preparing a set and when you're thinking

you're like yeah i'd like to kill tonight i'd like to do great on my buddy's show if i'm dropping in or i'd like to i'm doing a headlining set the pressure's pressure's even harder or bigger more intense that you're like i know i'll write a joke sometimes that i'm like this is not very good but it'll kill. Yeah. You know, and sometimes I say it and sometimes I don't, but like, that is the more pathetic thing actually is that when Chappelle's doing shit like that, he actually does know better and he actually is just that desperate to kill. Yeah. And the sad part about it is he's smarter and better than that. Like, he could kill without it. Yeah. But he's just writing the moment. Yeah. Which sucks. Yeah. And it's really sad to like, to look at somebody that like I idolize

as a kid. That was one of my, one of my heroes, you know? Um, especially in terms of like this legacy of of like Cosbita prior to Murphy to Paul Mooney to him you know it's like he's like one of the six guys

that's really significant in terms of like in terms of black comedy and I don't know it's just such a sad thing to watch go down fully lost my train of thought you were about to fix comedy Oh, right, right, right, right. And I was, like, ready to...

I'm, like, ready to support and join in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. The daunting weight of intelligence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the heartbreaking work of staggering genius is what we were about to do together? Right, what's the Nicholas Cage movie?

Oh, yeah. Oh, the, what is that? Nickley, he just did it. It was a really funny one, actually. it was like the pressure the immense pressure of the unbearable weight of massive talent thank you yes yes that's what we were in the middle of the unbearable weight of massive talent yeah yeah this episode is sponsored by philo pilo is a streaming service that brings together all the best tv and endless entertainment

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Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I can't help but feel that stand-up comedy is not really going to change until we sort of... Stand-up and art in general is not really going to change

until we figure out how to remove the the like yoke of capital from it. That makes sense? Like, I don't know, the, what I've been trying to do with my special is, like,

and what I would like to be able to do going forward is, like, not, not have it be a situation of, like, here's this piece of art you pay for this. I'd much rather, I'd much rather put myself in a situation where, like, hey, I got a I got to exist the whole time between these things. So, like, if you got a couple dollars a month, just, like, throw it my way so that I can not have to stress about rent till the next one. Yeah. You know, and just not be in a position where I'm, like, where I have to take whatever the

fuck comes my way between now and then, and I can really, like, focus on the thing. I just, I don't know. I just feel like there has to be there has to be some type of way to organize this thing economically where you know we're not blowing up on Twitter

every six months because our heroes went to Saudi Arabia for a weekend you know and like or where like everybody's funny until they get rich and then they're not. Yeah. You know?

Um It just feels like it's sort of set up in this pretty predictable boom and bust cycle, just like capitalism, where, like, everybody gets a bag, and then they stop being relatable, and then they whine about how nobody thinks they're funny anymore, and then they get canceled, and then, like, can't eat anymore because we've attached them being a shitty person to their ability to generate revenue, you know? it just it just it feels like it's so it feels like such an obvious like um an obviously flawed model that we refuse to do anything about yeah i there's been there's interesting

thing happening lately that's been causing me to think a lot about that is like i there's been this uh like sometimes the lefty like political accounts will clip this show and put it out and be like, look, the podcasters are talking about this or whatever. Yeah. I'm like, go nuts, whatever, if it helps the cause. But they, they reclipped something recently about me talking about, we turn down AI deals on this show. Yeah.

And Rock On, set it and left it in the episode for a reason. But then there's this interesting thing where people are like using it to attack anyone who's ever done an AI deal. And I'm like, I'm actually not so interested in that. I don't want to be, I don't know everyone's finances. I don't know everyone's situation. Yeah. I don't know.

there's so many things I don't know. And when I say something like that on this show that I'm like, you know, we don't do deals with AI or we don't do deals with gambling or whatever the situation is, it's not because I think I'm existing ethically under capitalism. I'm certainly not.

I don't, none of us get to. I still take money from bad places. And I'm still involved in the process. But I just wish that more people who had the opportunity to think about these things wouldn't just like, it's almost like you talk to people in this business and they're like, well, it's $500,000, I couldn't say no.

And it's like, well, I think you could have because if you're making the kind of money I suspect that you're making, I think you easily could have. Yeah. Like, I think actually, I couldn't say no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people couldn't say no. You could have said no. Yeah, that's the thing.

And then, yeah, and then it's, I got like, there was a group of people online who were mad at me about that same thing that they were like, that it's the privilege person take to tell people to turn that down. And I'm like, well, no, I'm not telling you random Twitter user to turn it down. I'm saying, why shouldn't I? If I know that my bills are paid without it, I just, I don't, there's this thing that happens, I think, where when we're having these conversations about, like, the nexus of, like, being an artist and trying to be like a somewhat moral, like, principled person who exists in the world doing that stuff and also existing under capitalism, the way that we all are, trying to figure. how that all melds together, I feel like this thing happens

where it's like anything you say is supposed to be a prescription for everybody. Yeah. And I'm like, no, I'm just, I just wish we would all ask a little bit more questions is really the only takeaway I have. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, the fact is we all have to contend with capitalism in some way, you know. It's like I have, I have the show jaded for him that I've been doing for a couple years that is like pretty explicitly. I don't like using the term leftist because people, you know,

you say that and people think you Democrat You love the Democrats I feel like That's low-key Like my shit Those are your family Those are my guys

Those are my guys Fucking Barry and Joe in them Chuck Nancy Yeah Shout out they're back there Yeah That can't take cloth on But

Yeah, for lack of a better phrase. Like, it's pretty explicit, explicitly left this show. But, like, I don't know, like, we all have our different jobs and different, like, different ways of, like, existing within capitalism. Like, you know, like, sometimes a guy with a lot of money will show up and, like, I don't know, the term class trader exists for a reason. Like, you got to just, you know, if they're going to get. of you money no strings attached

and you can like get that in writing take that money you know like I don't know it's just it's like you have to you know you have to you have to be ethical we also have to have the wherewithal to know like when it is and isn't going to affect you yeah you know

yeah um like I don't know if if you're not asking me to like go and like advertise some bullshit or like put this money towards, yeah, I'm taking, give me the money. No strings attached money, I'm interested. Yeah.

If anybody out there has no strings attached money for me, give me a call. Well, me first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give us both a call. Give us both a call. What is so true to you? Oh, what is it so true? I think in this era,

a lot of people may look at everything that's going on in the world and say humans are looking pretty stupid right now. I think we are too smart for our own good. I think our intelligence is getting in the way of so, so much of what we could achieve just by feeling shit out. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think, um, I don't know.

I think we, we've existed for thousands of years and sort of like the last few hundred years of it, we've just, we just decided, hey, all those like instincts and feelings that you have, those, those are bullshit. Ignore all that. Ignore all that. Science. Yeah. Science.

You know, maybe a better way to say this is, system of a down lyrics have started to make a lot more sense to me in my adult life. I was a big fan in middle school and I was just like, and I was just that guy. And as I've gotten older, I realize, oh, they might have actually been on to something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They might have actually been saying, except the drummer, he's a weirdo. But like, you know, as a.

as a collective. And those types of bands there's always going to be one guy that you have to go except for him and his crimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a, yeah, one guy that just doesn't understand the lyrics of his own group. He was sort of just vibe in.

He didn't really check in on the meanings or the themes. Yeah, I'm on percussion, man. I don't know what you want for me.

I'm not writing this shit. I've got the beat. Does it do you need anything else for me or are we good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. I love that. That's a great so true. Yeah. It's so funny. The so true, the so true segment, you're one of, you're one of a handful of people who actually had a thought prepared, which is lovely. No one comes with one. Well, to be fair, I did forget it.

Of course. And then it came back to me briefly. And did I stick the landing in my mind? Yes. I sure didn't. Yeah, I think you did. Hey, thank you. What's, uh, what's making you excited right now? What are you looking forward to us making you happy?

You know what? It's really this special and just like hopefully getting it out very soon. I feel like just as far as like and I want to stress that I don't I don't want to make it sound like I think these ideas are so important to the world or whatever

but I feel like as far as it's just like what I want to express as a comic I feel like it's so just so crucial to what I want to do going forward and just like I don't know it kind of feels like the first step in the rest of my artistic life

in a very meaningful way for me so I'm really excited about that I love that yeah there's something I know about you that I wanted to ask you about oh no yeah yeah it's bad no you're a big if I'm not mistaken you're a big Dragon Ball Z fan. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. Now, I don't know anything about this and it came up somewhat recently. Was it... Ananaia's episode.

Ananaia. How did you get into Dragon Ball Z and what do I need to know and where can I start if I'm interested? Um, okay. I...

I got into Dragon Ball Z because every black man on the planet is into Dragon Ball Z. So that's kind of how... That's kind of how that happens. So maybe the next life yeah uh yeah no words genuinely one of the one of very few stereotypes well that i will fully embrace is every every black man i i don't think i've met a black man that doesn't have

some relationship with drag mozy but um the the access point is uh is tunami which is like the anime block on cartoon network and from like 97 to mid two thousands mid to late 2000s um This is, like, what brought anime to the U.S. in the first place. Or, like, what brought it to the U.S. in a way that wasn't, like, creepy and orientalists in the way that a lot of things were. A lot of networks sort of presented it. It's like, what is this mysterious media from the east? Genuinely, they build it like that.

It's cartoons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have those. They just fuck with Disney. Like, I don't know what you want. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's a, that is a, that is a good access point. There is a, um, there are, there have been a lot of, um, like, adaptations to like sort of slim it down over the years, because the original Dragon Ball Zee was, um, like, notoriously kind of beefed that, padded out. Yeah. Uh, in a sense. Um, so if you watch Dragon Ball Z Kai, that's like the, the sort of reanimated one with, or not reanimated, but, they cut out all the filler and all this stuff and like kind of fixed up

the dubs and all that. How do you feel about that? Do you like the cut down ones or? I think there's a very, something very important to the experience of like really sitting through five episodes of somebody charging up. Yeah. I think that's a really important part of it. Yeah.

But I think if you just want to know what people are talking about, watch Dragon Mal Zikai. Yeah. There's also there's also, Dragon Mal Dima is like the new, the newest iteration that's like, it's kind of just trying to get kids into it because it's been around for 40 years and they just need an entry point to these characters.

I don't know if I would recommend that for an adult. I also don't know if I would recommend Dragon Ball in general for an adult. But again, if you want to be involved in the discourse. Well, it's just come up now in a number of ways that I'm like, maybe I need to tap in. I'm feeling like there's a big blind spot. Well, in what ways does it come up? Well, people keep telling me they fucking love it. And I'm like, I gotta fucking get involved.

I can't have this thing that a bunch of people I know love and I don't know anything about it. Right. Do you have plans to go on to Peru anytime soon? I could. Okay. It's not, hey, look, there's nothing on the calendar right now, but I could go to Peru.

Should I? I mean, I'm just, I would just check. Because if you're feeling that in the U.S., it's going to feel way worse in Latin America. It's just Latin American anime love is just on a different level So I need to...

Before I go to Peru Yes I need to get involved in Dragon Ball Zee. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I think I would recommend Dragon Ball Z Kai. If you're really,

if you're really dedicated, the original Dragon Ball is a little bit shorter. Yeah. And it's based on Journey to the West which is like a Chinese novel

a really old Chinese novel so there's like a there's there's like another entry point that way just to get just to understand like the the characters and such and such and Dragon Ball Z itself is it's just like they kind of just stole Superman

the story of Superman yeah yeah yeah I feel like you read are you a reader I am I am a reader what okay what are okay, this might be too big of a question and feel free if you hate this to tell me to shut up.

But I'm on a big journey right now to get people to tell me the best books they've ever read. Are there like three books that you're like, you would recommend them to anyone or to me specifically that you're like, you must read these.

Okay, what are your goals in reading? Fantastic question. There is a girl who works at the bookstore. Fight club. there's a girl who works at the bookstore that I go to a lot that's trying to get me more into fiction because I'm historically very like

nonfiction essays. That's where I live and love. Yeah. I'm trying to get a little more into fiction. I do love nonfiction. If you've got some good nonfiction wrecks, I want them. But if you have a fiction that you think

a nonfiction guy like me would love, I'm interested. Okay. I also have that problem of reading way too much nonfiction. Nice. And I'm also trying to, um,

I've been trying to just like start with, classics in a sense but or just like stuff that just kind of has a hold on like some pretty broad group of people I guess so I'm I started Lord of the Rings recently I really like

Ursula Le Guin who is who's a science fiction writer the first book I read of hers was the Dispossessed, which is a really great book about a there's two

planets that are sort of in each other's orbit. I don't remember which if one of if one is like a moon of the other or nothing, but as far as the story, it doesn't matter. But one is sort of like a capitalist like planet like ours and then the other one is like

is basically anarchist. And the, there is a scientist from this anarchist planet who invents this thing called the Ancibel, which is a device that basically like cuts the time for like interplanetary communication to like

milliseconds. And she has this whole universe of books that are sort of dealing with the implications of that. I'm interested in that. Her name's come up a bunch in my journey. Yeah. By the way. She's great.

She's sort of like, if you have any, like, anarchist friends or if you're familiar with the term social ecology, a lot of people that sit in those worlds bring her up a lot. Yeah. Because she's like, she's an artist of, like, what we're talking about, somebody who's just sort of, like, very principled and, like, just, like, really great and expressive and knowledgeable speculative fiction writer. Nice. And then as far as nonfiction, the dawn of everything. Yeah, I'm like three-fourths of the way through it right now. Yeah, that's a great book. Fuck, it's dense.

Yeah. It's hefty. Yeah. I'm at school when I'm reading it. Yeah. It's one of those. And I like it. But, well, since you've heard of it, it is also the spiritual successor to a arguably denser and.

Arguably, definitely denser book called Ecology of Freedom. Ecology of Freedom. Yes. This one I have not heard of. This one is by Murray Bookchin, who's like an old New York anarchist who actually inspired the leader of the Kurdish, of a Kurdish militia in like the border of Iraq, Syria, and Iran to basically drop his whole nationalist, like ethnic nationalist. and um and develop a whole theory of like called democratic confederalism in the middle east um and they just like changed up their whole after being at war with the turkish government for like 30 years changed up their whole program is it you know what new thing yeah yeah basically

yeah let's go basically no fuck it new thing new thing yeah yeah okay so ursula uh don't of everything slash ecology of freedom. Yes. Okay. Is there anything else I have to tap in on? Um, hmm.

Because I'm open. There, there absolutely is. You're like, no. There's no other books, man. Those are the ones. Those are the ones.

You got them. Um, I guess, um, I am in, I'm in the middle of reading a book by, uh, that guy who was inspired by Murray Bookchin,

who was Abdullah, Ergelon, this book is called Beyond State Power and Violence. Also a really good, really good book. It's just like, it sort of details the, this juncture of like, sort of the start of like written history, starting with like Epic of Gilgamesh and all this stuff, like these just mythological epics that talk about the, the histories in terms of like these heroic men

it basically frames those as like the beginning of a break from early like women-centered societies that were sort of centered around that's some, look at that timing. That's good.

What a piece of shit. Turn it off. What a piece of shit. Turn it off. Michelle, will you grab them for me and give us a second? Thank you. Yeah, it basically frames like the beginning. all these epics in like the beginning of monotheistic religion as a break from

early like women-centered societies that were centered around like communal living and like and this is what I mean when I say like when I say we've gotten too smart for our own good and we're like destroying our own instincts with our intelligence yeah he talks about sort of um the the replacing of um of like our communal instincts with like the need for like concrete science and things like that um and how it sort of basically locked us in like this eternal dialectical conflict with the state being like a cumulative like power based hierarchical society and this communal based society that we broke from like 5,000 years ago yeah um also basically what dawn of everything is about and

what ecology of freedom is about So what it was reminding me of, yeah. Yeah, but... I have one more segment for you. Okay. And I am going to tap in on these books. Yes. Okay, true false segment.

I'm going to read you 15 statements. You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false. Okay. If you get 10 or more correct, we're going to give you 50 U.S. dollars. This is a big high money game. Oh, my God. You ready? Yes.

Water boils at 117 degrees Fahrenheit. False. False. Two hundred 12. There are no AMC movie theaters in Brooklyn. True. True. Sudan has most pyramids of any country.

Most pyramids? Yeah. That's true. That is true. The John Thomas Carnes family log houses in Winston, Georgia. Say that one more time? The John Thomas Carnes family log house is in Winston, Georgia. I don't know shit about Winston aside from my mom lives there, so I'm going to say true.

True. Ringo Star is not the original drummer for the Beatles. True. Uranus is the sixth planet from the sun. Uh, false. False. It's the seventh. The cricket that lives on King Kai's planet is named Gregory.

True. True. Walmart is older than Dwayne Reed. True. False. Damn. You were on a generational run, dude. One of Emory University's mascots is Dooley the Skeleton. True. True. Camoto Dragon females can give birth without having mated with a male.

Ooh. I feel like, because the question is in there, it's true. True. Matches Malone is an alias Clark Kent sometimes uses. I don't even know. And I wrote comic books. False. False, Bruce Wayne. A rainbow can only be seen in the morning or late afternoon. False. True. Uh, Lego is still releasing new bionical figures.

Oh. Oh. That's a question for my friend, Mamadu. Uh, false. False. They're discontinued. A group of rhinos is called

a smash. True. False. A crash. There's only one shake shack in Alaska. True. False.

There are none. How do you do? Wow. 11. Damn. That was a good showing, dude. That was a good showing.

Uh, thank you so much for doing it. We love you. We love to have you back anytime. We tell people where they can find. can find you? I am on Instagram at Yadoya underscore pretty much everywhere

at Yadoya underscore. Twitter the threads all this stuff. Special is going to be on YouTube. My social security number is thanks so much for doing it, dude. Thank you for having me. It was a delight. It was a good time.

That was a hate gum podcast. Hi, I'm Nicole Byer. Hi, I'm Sashir Zameda. And this is the podcast, Best Friends. And we're here at HeadGum. So this is just a podcast where we just talk. Yeah. We're best friends.

Yeah. We talk. And then we have a segment where we answer questions and queries. So audience members can ask questions about friendships and we can answer them to the best of our abilities. Yes. We are professional friends. Subscribe to Best Friends on Spotify, Apple Podcast. Podcast, Pocketcast, or wherever you get your podcast and watch videos on YouTube.

New episodes drop every Wednesday. That's the middle of a work week. I was deeply unhelpful to you during that whole thing. You were. I'm really sorry. I felt the support. I was so, okay. I was trying to be supportive.

Yeah. But I was like, I don't know, reading seems pretty hard right now. It's a lot. I think you did good. Thank you so much. You're welcome.