Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - A Life Without Alcohol? Dre Thought Never — Now She is 4 Years Sober

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

In this episode of the Sober Motivation Podcast, Dre joins us to recount her journey with alcohol, starting with a disruptive childhood marked by constant moving.  Hear what led her to her first drink at 13, setting off years of binge drinking, attempts at moderation, and eventually hitting rock bottom. She shares powerful insights on battling addiction, the impact of losing her mother and later her daughter, and her path to sobriety through self-discovery and community support. Please tune in to hear how she celebrates 4 years of sobriety today, November 10, 2025. Dre's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dre_eagle/   00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:16 Childhood Memories and Family Dynamics 01:42 First Drink and Teenage Years 05:58 High School Struggles and Boarding School 14:22 Post-High School and Early Adulthood 16:55 Motherhood and Coping with Loss 19:52 Relocation and Continued Struggles 20:30 Acknowledging the Problem 23:08 Attempts at Moderation and Realization 30:32 Health Issues and the Path to Sobriety 35:34 Struggles with Alcohol and Realization 36:37 Impact on Family and Embarrassment 37:41 Isolation and Binge Drinking 39:54 The Tipping Point and Seeking Help 41:05 First Steps Towards Sobriety 52:22 Grieving and Building Community 01:01:08 Reflections and Moving Forward

Welcome back to season four of the Super Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We're here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode of the podcast, Dre joins us to recount her journey with alcohol, starting with the disruptive childhood marked by constant moving. Here what led to her first drink at 13, setting off years of binge drinking, attempts at moderation, and eventually hitting rock

bottom. Dre shares powerful insights on battling addiction, the impact of losing her mother and later her daughter, and her path to sobriety through self-discovery and community support. Tune in to hear how today, November 10th, 2025, she celebrates four years of sobriety. And this is Dre's story on this sober motivation podcast. Great to have you back for another episode. So interesting, I recorded this episode last week and Dre and I had obviously talked about four years coming up for and then all weekend i was thinking about this episode just how big of an impact it had on me personally because i was the only one to hear it at the time and i'm thinking i got to get

this thing out on monday i have to get this thing out on monday and then seeing on social media today drays four years and it all just kind of lined up and here we're going to get the episode out to hopefully further celebrate that and just push uh her story and everything that that's that's really helped her out on her journey. It's an incredible story. I appreciate her so much for jumping on here and sharing it with all of us. One of the big things you'll hear is how community of some sort makes all the difference. So really plug into that, pay attention to it.

I talk with so many people, and there's no right or wrong way to do it, but so many people that I think are spinning tires, just trying to figure it out. I don't know what it is. Maybe we feel like nobody's going to relate to us or understand us or maybe we believe that our drinking and everything is so much different than everybody else's. It could be so many different things, but look, it's not as scary as we think it is going to be. I always try to ask people that especially join the sober motivation community, like, coming into here, you had all this stuff.

Like, did any of it come true or was it or is it as scary as you thought it would be? No, it's not at all. It is not at all. This is regular, everyday folks that are doing a really good job and came to the conclusion that a life without alcohol is much better for them. So if you want to check us out in the community, we'd love to have you. Now let's jump into the episode. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast.

Today we've got Drey with us. How are you? I am fantastic. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thank you. you for reaching out and being interested in sharing your story here on the podcast with all of us. Of course. So what was it like for you growing up? That's a heavy question. Growing up, I don't

remember much of my childhood. I don't know if it's because I moved around so much and it was difficult to form connections, memories, that kind of thing. I had a father that. I had a father that that tended to run from problems or, you know, kind of always seeking a better place or situation. So I was always, always moving. So I really don't remember much of my childhood before the age of 13. At 13, I discovered my father was cheating on my mother. He had borrowed a jacket of mine. And when I put the jacket back on, I put my hands in the pockets. And there were some woman's earrings in there. And it was that moment, it seemed like I just went haywire. It was pretty devastating. I already had a father that was pretty not emotionally available

to the family or to me that I can recall. And then to have something. like that on my shoulders was just kind of devastating. And from that point, actually at 13 is when I had my first drink. At 13, you had your first drink to. Where did you grow up or where did you start out? I started out in Southern California, Orange County, from there moved to outside of Seattle and then to Oregon and then back to California. And then all up and down the coast. When I was a teenager, I was outside of Seattle. And where this incident occurred with my father and my first drink was in North Bend, Washington on the outskirts. We, I think we really didn't do much out there, but ride dirt bikes in the woods and drink

and snow cigarettes and that kind of thing. And that's where from, from, from there things just spiraled out of control yeah yeah did did you grow up seeing a lot of drinking or like how would you kind of connect the dots i'm always kind of interested in that of to plug in or no i don't remember anything of my family life or the dynamics within the house um so i don't recall drinking being a i know that my family today is not they're not real big drinkers it's not like at Christmas we're drinking. It's never been like that. But for me growing up, I would say I wasn't around it so much.

It wasn't like a daily thing. But I like I don't totally remember. I just know that with my friends, that's what everybody did. And I know when I took that first drink, I felt a huge sense of relief. And like, aha, this is. is what I've been looking for and needing all these years because I was a very anxious, shy child. And the alcohol just took that all away. It just like kind of melted it. And I became almost who I was meant to be, you know, with the help of the alcohol. So I kind of, I felt, I have

recollection that I had the idea that this was going to be a problem. Like, This is so good. And at my young mind, I remember feeling, oh, here we go. And it was a long time of that. Yeah, which is so interesting. I mean, even back to the years that you don't remember things, like, that's very relatable to me. And I meet some people and they could tell you what this day are at three years old

and four years old. And then I'm just like, how do you guys remember all of these things? things, you know, from your childhood where I'm just like, I draw a blank on a lot of different areas as far as growing up. And I moved around a little bit too. And I remember, you know, vaguely starting over at different schools and always being kind of the new person. Like, I remember that that was extremely difficult because I was also very shy and very anxious. And so making new connections and friends and was so difficult for me. I started drinking sort of later than 13 but when I first started drinking it was the same thing everything melted away

and what I remember most is that I was accepted by other people and that's what I found you know reflecting back I didn't really know all this at the time that's what I was really looking for a place to a community to belong to a place to fit into um so how did things like after your your first drink there and it's kind of what your friends are doing and you have this sort of man this is too kind of good to be true. Yeah. So like I said, it just made me feel like me. And I wanted to drink as much as possible, as often as possible.

So at that time, I mean, it was young. But my friends were all older, maybe 16, something like that. So there was a lot of house parties, weekend house parties and stuff like that. I would go to as many as I could. And then that was interrupted when my parents decided to send me to boarding school. So I went to boarding school for the bad kids and out of control kids. And that stopped that for a little while. But as soon as I got out, I went right back to the partying and just, I mean, I can relate with feeling like you belong and you're kind of, it's a false sense of

connection, right? You feel like you're connecting with these people. But it's so superficial and it really means nothing. But I felt like I belonged to this group. And, you know, I essentially thought I was a shit, you know, running around 13 years old with these older people parting and whatnot. And then it just continued like that through my teens. I bounced around from schools. I went to traditional high school. And then that wasn't working out for me because I didn't want to go to school.

I wouldn't show up. And then so I went to at the time. they called it alternative schools. I went to alternative high school. Um, but I just wanted to be partying and drinking. And it was really a struggle for me to actually finish school. I did eventually finish school. And, um, but yeah, I just continued on that same path through my teens, just partying and looking for the next thing. And I always just drank and drank and drank and there was no stopping once it started. And it was just until I passed out. And it was just until I passed out. It was like that since I started.

Yeah. And I always had the thought that I didn't want to do it. There's no way I could not do it. It's just, it was just a part. Like, I loved it so much and I hated it so much. It was definitely a love-hate thing, always. Yeah. What was the boarding school experience like?

Was this sort of in Seattle? Like, they just sent you to this place? It was north of Seattle in Bellingham, north. and that was so long ago oh my goodness they it was co-ed so it was separated but it was separated like we had the girls dorm and the boys dorm and like when I first got there we had to wear overalls and moccasins as kind of a uniform for like when you first get there like you're in you're in trouble you're wearing the overalls and moccasins and um I don't remember much of it.

I remember there was curriculum, school kind of thing. But I remember when I first got there, I was given a toothbrush, and I was told to clean the grout in the kitchen with the toothbrush. Like, it was. Could you leave or no? Like, were you allowed to leave? No, you were out in the middle of the know. If I tried leaving, I would just be in the woods somewhere.

I don't even know where I was. Yeah. My parents were just trying to save me. I had just gone haywire, like I said. Yeah. So it was kind of a boarding school like that. Like I remember we had to run two miles every morning before we could eat that kind of stuff. There was a room where the director had a paddle with holes in it and kids would be paddled if they weren't following the rules and stuff.

So it was a place for the wild unruly kids to go. I don't I stayed several months I don't remember the total outcome of it but I know that I kept begging to leave and finally I was taken out by my father and then things just like I said discontinued where I left off before I went in yeah I would imagine too part of that conversation would be like yeah I'll do like I'll do what I have to do and you know good grades and show up for school and maybe I would just imagine that would sort of be the bargaining it's interesting I mean I was sent to like a rehab at the tail end of high school um but sounds like a little like it was a year long program but I mean leaving was not optional but some of the same

sort of ideas too of um behavioral problems it was kind of it seemed like kind of a thing then and there's like a Netflix documentary about at least it's not the exact program I went to but it had its similarities to it um about sort of these sorry i said i think i saw that you saw that yeah so it was similar to that in a lot of ways not maybe the extent of some of those people's experiences but yeah it was a lot like that so it was um it was interesting so yeah i mean there was there's that so you kind of get out of this and go back to high school i mean it's so relatable for me i had I had so many problems in high school suspensions and everything else and didn't want to go and hanging out in the smoke pit, you know, the smoker's area or, you know, just going to school

and then leaving. It was really difficult. I mean, when I kind of go back and reflect on that time of my life, there's a lot of confusion about what was actually, what, like, what was I actually going through? How was I actually feeling? I mean, I was dealing with all kind of things internally. And what I conclusion I kind of came to or come to today is like I just didn't know really how to communicate. I didn't really know how to share what I was struggling with and how to talk about it and really even connecting the dots. I mean, what are your thoughts like when you reflect back on it? I agree. I think it was such a difficult time. I mean, I didn't even realize what was going on.

You know, like, and I'm sure my parents didn't know, especially my mom. My mom was very involved, but I don't think mental health was, I mean, they didn't know what was going on. They didn't realize I was dealing with anxiety or everything that I was dealing with at the time. And I probably didn't know how to deal with me or even understand that maybe coming at it from a compassion, understanding, empathetic way, rather than we got to get this girl under control. Let me send her to boarding school.

I mean, they just didn't understand. And the hormones, everything that's going on during that time. There's so many things happening. I was highly, highly anxious. And, like, I couldn't even finish high school because of presentations. You know, I would be like, nope, not doing it. I had dropped out in one high school because they wanted me to stand in front of a classroom and present a paper. And I'm like, not happening.

I'm not doing it. And so I went to a different high school. Same thing happened there. It was important to me to graduate with my high school diploma. So I found a way around it. And I went to the community college and finished a high school program through them where they didn't have me present. Like, I was just so unbelievably anxious, I couldn't even function. And so when I was drinking, I didn't have those problems. Oh my gosh, it was so freeing. It was so beautiful for me at the time. But no one really understood that that's what I was doing. I didn't even understand what I was doing. I mean, looking back at it now, I can see what I was doing or what was going on or

what was happening. I mean, the trauma response from my dad and finding all out that and having that and then being highly sensitive and anxious and all of these things that I was struggling with, no one, I mean, everyone just saw the behaviors, the acting out, the skipping school, the smoking, the drinking, all of these things, not understanding what was happening. understand either. So I don't blame anybody. Which is so, which is so interesting too, right? Because you go to kind of those space. Like I always kind of share high school as maybe the toughest four years of my life. And you go and then you wonder, right, everybody's addressing the

behaviors. Why are you skipping class? Why are you drinking? Why are you partying? And not maybe asking the deeper question. But then I kind of go back to that place. Okay, even if they did, I didn't really know what was going on so like yeah it just yeah definitely not blaming anybody but it's interesting how things play out how do things look like for you after high school um so i had started college i had always wanted to be a psychologist so even with all of that stuff going on i had a vision of me helping people probably i don't know how i was going to help people i couldn't even help myself, but I always wanted to help people. And so I started college at 18 and planning on getting a PhD in psychology. And then at 19, I became pregnant with my oldest daughter,

who will be 30, like next month. Oh my gosh. Wow. So once I became pregnant with her, it became a priority to be at home with her and stay with her and focus on her and raising her and the family and whatnot. So I stopped school at that time. During pregnancy, I didn't smoke. I was smoking cigarettes at the time. I didn't smoke or drink during pregnancy at all, but as soon as the pregnancy was over, I went right back to drinking. I wouldn't breastfeed because I wanted to drink. I needed, like, it was just my normal way of being. That's just how I showed up. So following her, I kind of went back and forth to school because I kept having that desire to finish school and get my degree and whatnot. And then I had three more children.

So by the time I was 25, I had four kids. And so they're all pretty close in age. but each of the pregnancies, I wouldn't be drinking, wouldn't be smoking, but would go right back to it as soon as I had the children. My last one was a little bit more difficult to stop drinking and smoking. It took me a little bit, tiny, a bit longer to quit smoking and drinking. That's just the progression, you know, as we, but I did. And, I mean, I was raising the kids. I was so involved. I wanted them home with me, so I did whatever I could. to not have them in daycare and be at home with them and work at night if I needed to.

I was married to my ex-husband at that time. We both drank a lot, and we would drink before going out to places, drink on the weekends. It was just what we did all the time. When I was 25, and my youngest was six months old, my mom died of breast cancer. And she was the closest person in the world to me. Like we talked a million times a day. I had actually moved into her house to take care of her at end of life. And so going through that at that age,

and she's probably what I would consider the only family I had. She was really, I mean, my dad wasn't really supportive or around. I mean, he's around in the back. but not like supportive like you'd need a family to be um so losing her kind of changed my drinking for the first time I became aware of it like I was so devastated by her loss I went out as soon as she took her last breath I went out of the house up to the bar and just started drinking and I realized the first time I can drink to like numb pain I never had thought of it that before like I was as drinking and it was as part of my routine

and I never drink at things. I mean, I would drink, you know, you drink when you're excited or celebrating or sad or whatever, but I had never had that thought until then I was like, oh, I can like numb things. I don't have to feel this. I don't have to, I can just go out and drink. So my drinking changed at that point to more of like I can use it for situations. Yeah, so like a coping. A way to cope with things.

Which I wasn't aware that I was doing before. It's just like an awareness that, oh, hey, I can use this if I'm upset. So that started years of that. Which, I mean, I think that that's a really great insight to look back. And I love the way you mentioned it there, drink at things. I feel like I've heard that one other time in my life. Somebody's mentioned that and I've heard it. And you identify sort of a shift there.

a shift of things that are happening as to where it's drinking to celebrate to connect just sort of that routine that you're in in life and then now it it's sort of creeping into this other area too things are pretty busy for you there though for kids and you know everything like that are you still in the seattle area um i was still in the seattle area outside of seattle in um Where was I? Kirkland's outside. Okay. But following my mom's death, I, we moved somewhere and then I needed to get out of the Seattle area.

I was just having a difficult time with the weather and the grayness and the cold and all that kind of stuff. I wanted to move somewhere where there was more sun. My mom wasn't there anymore. There was no reason for me to be there. So we moved to Arizona when I was about 26 years old. Okay. Like your whole family. I took all the kids, my husband at the time, the animals and brought them all down here.

Yeah, down here. So then you're still in Arizona. And still in Arizona. Yeah. There's a lot of sun. A lot of sun, yeah. Up until this point, though, have you had any thoughts about alcohol being a problem or this isn't really helping me out or are you trying to quit or trying to make moderation or

or kind of bargain with yourself, make deals or anything? Yep. I went to rehab when I was 21. You went to rehab when you were 21? Okay. I forgot that part. That is the only rehab I went to, and I went when I was 21. My mom sent me.

So it was a, I mean, it's drinking has been a problem since I started. Like I said, I could never stop. Once I started, I couldn't stop. Yeah. Um, at 21, I was working like in a bar area. I was working, I worked in bars in my 20s and 30s at, you know, at night or, you know, when I wasn't going to school or whatever, I'd work in different bars. And, um, I would, after work with that culture, everyone sits around in drinks and hangs out and we connect like really deep. It's not a deep connection. It's the most stupid. But you think it is. But at the time, it's like this. is great, right? Yeah, and you think it's the most important conversation of your life? Oh, my gosh. I'm so embarrassed by those conversations sometimes. I'm like, oh, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah. But that was my life. And so I was married with kids and I wasn't behaving, you know,

appropriately. Like I would, and I never, it was never, I always had the best of intentions. I'm going to have one drink. And you know, that's not happening. So, but I. I would convince myself, I'm only going to have one drink, and then I'll go home. And I couldn't. I'd start drinking, and I'd just stay out all night and then come home. And I had a husband and kids at home. And it was, it's embarrassing to think of that. But I, and that's not the kind of person.

I mean, not the, not the, I had a problem. You know, so I went to rehab when I was 21 and did 30 days. My mom sent me. And I got out and just started drinking again. So I knew I had a problem and I would always be very sorry for my behavior. I was. I was very sorry for my behavior. And it wasn't a lie and it wasn't just to say it so I can keep doing it.

I was embarrassed by the way I was behaving. And I knew better, but I couldn't stop it. And it just had a hold of me at that point. And so it was always an apology and it was always, that it'll never happen again. And over and over, I mean, that was my whole 20s were like that. Yeah. And I knew there was no way I was going to quit, though.

Like, I don't even think quitting was in thought. Yeah. Like, I don't even think at that point in my 20s, the thought of quitting was even an option. I knew I had a problem, but I would always just say, it'll never happen again. And I didn't start thinking of quitting until, Like my late 30s, maybe. Yeah, yeah, which is, I mean, it seems like a common trend, like knowing there's a problem, but there seems to be like a, I don't know if it's time or in everybody it's going to be different,

but there's something that people share has to happen or some awareness that has to come into the picture of like, okay, have a problem and then now I'm willing to do something about it. Realizing just on its own that we have a problem doesn't necessarily springboard us. into immediately saying, oh, well, I have to look after this. But everything going on, too, your family and everything, like, that's probably throwing a wrench in a lot, you know, relationships and in things, too. Does that weigh on you at all through all of this?

It did. So I would apologize to my husband at the time. And he was very accommodating. And he would say, okay, you know, and it was always just. kind of it was almost enabling thing you know um and it happened over and over and over again um i have i have regrets but i don't i mean i'm so grateful for everything and where i am today so like everything worked out the way it was supposed to you know um at the time there were times where i couldn't show up for my kids um the way that i wanted to and my kids were everything to me i was

very hands-on mom, like homemade food, all like healthy, you know, like very special parties that I would plan for them, really special experiences and making scavenger hunts in the neighborhood or when we went camping and always wanting to make really great memories for them. But I was drinking half the time, so I don't really remember a lot of it, you know, because I would be drinking like before a party because I was anxious about guests coming and then I'd be in the bathroom slamming something, you know, and then coming, you know, it was always just clouded with that. There was a time where I had prepared my second daughter's birthday. So we were doing it at some place. And I couldn't go. I was so hungover. I couldn't even go.

And that, I mean, there were things like that that happened. But I, the thought of living without alcohol hadn't even cut. I couldn't even think about it because it was literally, everything to me so i mean i couldn't stop it whatever i was doing or you know i'd have the best intentions and not not plan on um drinking before a birthday party or something like that like the day before but i couldn't stick i couldn't stick to anything i said i couldn't stick to any promises i may yeah yeah once things um once things get going it just for me anyway when i started to drink, that's all I could think about was the next drink. But yeah, I always set these lines in the sand, right? I'll never do that or that won't. If that happens, of course, I'm going to dial it back or I'm going to quit. Then I just, when I look back, at the time, I feel like it happened so quick. I didn't really necessarily realize I was crossing all these lines. But then once I crossed one in my life, I just found so much easier to do the next thing that I said, oh, yeah, I'll never. That'll never end up there and then I end up there.

And it just kind of was a progression that I honestly never expected. I mean, I share a lot on the show that I had reflective times to where I just was thinking to myself, how did I end up here just from one innocent party at the tail end of high school college where we all drank out of a cooler fruit juice and Everclear? How did I end up here to where I can't envision a life without alcohol? Like what in the, and I would reflect on that, come up with not really much, but I, it sort of haunted me, maybe my dreams. And if I did have like some deep thoughts with myself, which was rare in the whole phase of things, like, man, how did I end up here? Why does this mean so much? How does a life without it seem like one impossible or just really not even worth living? Yeah.

Yeah, I can relate. And what that happened, that start of, that thinking started happening in my 30s. Like I was like, I would rather not live than live without alcohol. I didn't know how I was going to do it. Like, I got to that point where I would think that, like I can't even imagine a life without alcohol. There's no way I can even go on. Like, what's the point?

Yeah. So, yeah. Did you share this with anybody throughout, like, say your 30s here where we're kind of at? Like, did you share with anybody your struggle? Did anybody else notice it? I know I'd shared that your mom had sort of intervened at 21. Did anybody else?

No. There was really nobody else in my life. It was me and my husband. And it was just him and I. I never let anybody else into my circle. That comes from a childhood of being unable to make connections or knowing how to make connections with people. So it was all very superficial.

It was all the bar people. You know, those are the people that I would meet at night. or on the weekend or whenever, but I never brought anybody into like friendships or like bringing people and it was just me and my husband during the whole time. And like I said, he kind of was an enabler. I mean, he loved me and he just wanted to make sure that I was happy and safe and all of these things. So he, I mean, we were young and I mean, he did the best he could. And I don't fault him for doing what he did. He was drinking also and having his own issues with things. But Um, no, no one around me said anything or did anything. I mean, because there was, I wouldn't let anybody in.

So, um, it was just him and I and we just were doing our thing. And I mean, I was even drinking before like interviews and stuff. And I mean, everywhere I go, I'd be drinking. And, um, no, there was no intervening. And there was no thoughts of really stopping. Like I said, I couldn't even imagine life without alcohol. and I didn't want to imagine it. It had become my best friend, like my absolute best friend. And there's no way that I was going to give it up. And until I got to the point where I started thinking I had to. And that's where everything started changing.

So yeah. Yeah. And when was that? When did that process start? Because we chatted a little bit before here. And I think it's similar to a lot of people's journey. there's some sort of things we introduced to our life and then maybe like we don't necessarily quit right then the first book we read the first podcast we listen to or the first thing that

happens but maybe that's preparing us like when did all of that process start so time is really funny i mean a lot of my memories are just gone from blackouts and just i was chronically blacked out But I think the starting to think about, okay, I have a problem, I need to do something about it. I'm trying to think of how old I am and one of those all started happening was probably in my late 30s. So I'm 49 now and I will have four years of sobriety in about three days. So I started thinking about this in my late. 30s and I started thinking I have a problem well I started Googling do I have a problem like for years for years I started the Googling thing am I now am I an alcoholic and it kept like if I

if you could score 100 I'd score 150 yeah on every single test but I kept having to take more tests and I'm like no there's got to be something there's got to be something wrong like maybe if I answer differently maybe if I answered differently I won't have a problem. But obviously I had a problem if I'm looking, if I have a problem. So I started to meet in my late 30s and also my ex-husband and I had separated at that time. And so I started just kind of doing some work, like personal development stuff at that time, just kind of like more reflecting and not so focused on him. And that was the first time my life. I haven't been focused solely on a partner, you know? So, um,

And that's when the thinking started changing. Like, I need to change this. So that's when moderation started being introduced. That never, never worked. And so that was years of doing that, thinking that, doing the test, reading the literature, and then trying to figure out a way to keep drinking. I even looked at the moderation something where you can, like, count how many drinks you have in a day and I mean just I would I was really driving myself insane

thinking about it and all the energy I'm thinking about it now because I don't I don't use that energy anymore my inner like my thinking is on beautiful things now not on the obsessive compulsion that alcohol cause and thinking about it now is making me like oh my god ready for a nap we're ready to have a nap here oh my gosh that was a terrible time But I was constantly thinking, okay, well, if I just do this. And if I get a count, I had a calendar, what days marked or how many drinks I could have, and like everything. Okay, you can only drink beer on this day.

And I was, yeah, that's, that's exhausting. Yeah. It is. I mean, very much so. I think it's a very relatable story for a lot of us, right? We want to try to keep, keep it all together, but maybe minimize the consequences. minimize the shame and minimize the guilt and stuff. I mean, do you feel as weird as it might sound?

That was sort of a bridge you had to cross. Like, maybe you had to try to try all of this sort of, you know, now we can kind of, we can really see it for what it was, but kind of this madness you had to check these boxes or this box to just really come to the conclusion that this is not getting me to where I want to be. Definitely, 100%. and it was as part of the process. You know, I had to go through it, the madness, to get to where I am now because then

I just started seeing more clearly how insane it was. And it wasn't me. It was alcohol. I was sick. I mean, I was drinking and driving. I was losing my, I couldn't, I never knew where my car was. I was so embarrassed to wake up and, like, try to go find my car. I was so embarrassed to wake up in the morning and like, oh, God, who did I text last night?

Oh, my God. So many things were happening along with the moderation. I mean, I was literally driving myself insane. And I had to go through all of that to get to where I am because I didn't realize, you know, what impact it was having on my life. Really, I didn't. So in my 40s, I started. getting really sick, like physically sick. I had kidney problems, not kidney problems, liver problems. I had, my whole body was just in so much pain. I probably had liver disease,

roast of liver or something, but I would never go to the doctor and tell them anything that was going on. You know, I was just taking herbal supplements. I'm like, I'm like drinking 15 drinks in a sitting or 15 to 20 and then I'd take a supplement to like kind of try to fix it the pain I was happening. It was madness. All of it to go through all of it had to happen to get to me to where I am. And I mean, it was a very long time of drinking 30 years or so. But without all of those experiences, I wouldn't be able to have this. tremendous joy i have in my life now like i think for me personally this has been my path um and now i get to experience like so much joy um what brought me to like uh actually trying to get sober

is taking all those tests realizing i had a problem and finally getting to the point where i was like even though this is my best friend i got to figure out how to get rid of it because it's literally killing me and I need to be here for my kids and the way I was behaving was so embarrassing. And I mean, my kids didn't see everything, but they knew what was going on. There were times where they saw me in terrible situations and they had to help me. And those are my kids. You know, they're having to hold me up while I'm having alcohol poisoning. And how sad is that?

And I had my second daughter bring over my grandkids once so I could watch them. And she got there. I was drunk. and she said, I'm not letting them stay. And I was, like, devastated. And that was actually about a year before I finally got sober is when that happened with my daughter, Jordan, bringing the kids over and not letting them stay. Yeah.

Yeah. So you kind of go through this moderation, you know, stage of things where you're trying all this stuff. I mean, what is your sort of routine? Like, are you still going out and the after work type thing? or is it becoming at home or is it still 50-50 or? So the last year of my drinking, I was completely at home. I wouldn't even go out anymore.

The year before I was still going out, I was going to the bars that I worked at and doing the whole, the greatest thing in the world, you know, while I'm not remembering anything when I'm coming home, unable to function, laying on the floor, vomiting. I mean, just. the last year I was I couldn't even go out anymore I was completely at home and my drinking well my so I was a binge drinker I don't know if I said that but um they started getting longer and

longer and I was and I started doing that about two or three years before I finally got sober they started extending to three days and they would extend into Monday when I was at work And when I was at work, I'd be literally on the bathroom floor all of Monday, just dying, trying to keep it together. And then the last year, completely isolated in my apartment. It was the first time in my life, I had gone through a divorce. And it was the first time my life I had lived alone. It was a challenge I did. So I was doing all these little things to challenge myself and reading books.

and learning things and like I'm going to go get an apartment and live by myself like which was the scariest thing in the world but like that year was terrible because I was completely by myself isolating drinking in my apartment all the time I'd plan my benches so I get everything done in the morning I needed to get done and then I could just drink for the rest of the weekends I mean all the days and I'd have like I'd literally set gatorade and ibuprofen on my nightstand so I could grab it in the morning to like start my morning out right um yeah that last year was really rough and i was actually trying to finish my bachelor's degree at the time so all of these things i was like building momentum i was like doing the self-help things i was but i was still drinking so

heavily um but i was starting to get to the point um where i was finally able to quit and yeah yeah the tipping point it's the tipping point yeah when when was that and what was the what's the story there so um i had spent a year in that apartment and um by myself and um i think it was about two months before i moved out of there so motivation, the ideas that I needed to quit, like writing the love letter to alcohol, saying goodbye, you know, all of these things. I was working on all these things. And then, but I was completely by myself. I still didn't have any, I didn't have anybody that knew what was going on. I didn't have any friends that I could tell. I probably did,

but I just didn't tell anybody. I didn't reach out, you know. I just never was the type of person to reach out. So I kept thinking I needed to go to a meeting because that's what you hear. You need to go to a meeting. And I'm like, I'm not going to a meeting. So I would drive up to like a meeting and I'd sit there and I'd cry and I'd leave several times. And I finally got the courage to go into meeting one night. And that's when I was still in that apartment living by myself.

I went in and I literally cried the whole time I was in there. I was just, I couldn't even say anything. I was like, I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe, but I stayed. And I stayed and I stayed the whole time and I just cried the whole time. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this is my reality. It was more like the fear, the thought of giving up alcohol. Like I still couldn't even imagine a life with it, but I knew I had to.

And I had gotten to the point where I was thinking, I have to 100% change my legacy for my kids. Like, I cannot, like, this cannot be my legacy. Being in my apartment, cleaning my house with the music on, drinking a case of beer and my six vodka rock stars. Like, this is what I'm going to leave for my kids. I was, like, so determined to change my legacy and, like, do something. I kept thinking I need to go to a meeting.

I need to do something. So I started going to meetings occasionally, and I'd have like, I'd quit. I'd say, okay, I'm going to quit. I'd quit for a couple days and then go back to drinking. And it just started building on that. I kept quitting and then it got longer and longer. And then it got to the point where I had quit for 89 days relapse. And I was like, oh.

And then a few weeks later, I was like, I got to quit again. And then I made it to 90 days and I haven't stopped since. And that quit date was November 10th, 2021. So this November 10th will be four years. Yeah, wow. Great job. Very incredible job, especially, I mean, since we know, you know, snapshot of how things were for you, how ingrained alcohol was in your life and everything that you did

in the way that you were going about it. How, like, what was the experience like in the beginning? I mean, how were you able to remain determined, even though maybe your goal wasn't achieved to get back up and get back at it as opposed to it didn't work out? It's never going to work out. You know what I mean? What kept you kind of coming back? You know, I don't even really, I don't know.

I don't know the answer to that. I just felt it must have been to something in my soul. I mean, I think it was all of the things I was listening to reading, hearing, being exposed. I mean, I was listening to Sober Podcasts as I was drinking my case of beer in the kitchen doing my cooking. And so, like, I think just the more information I was putting in my brain was kind of leading me that way. I was just being exposed to more of that and hearing people's stories and hearing that it's not the end of the world and that life gets better. And I think that exposure is what kept me going. I can't see what else it was.

Also, I was just so sick of myself, you know? I was so sick, not just physically, but mentally. Like we were talking about the consumption and the thinking and the incessant just, oh, my gosh, I just wanted to be rid of that so much. Although the fear of missing out, the fear of living a life without alcohol was always there. I must have known through the things I was hearing, reading, being exposed to that there was something better. I mean, there had to be something better. I mean, I was a slob on the floor, throwing up all day long, dying. There has to be something better than this. I mean,

this is not glamorous at all. So that's what kept me going. And I just remember that feeling, you know my daughter not letting the grandkids stay with me and like how this is how i'm i'm not going to be this this grandmother this mother i can't do this anymore yeah it's like worlds collide in a sense everything becomes maybe clearer we see it for what it is and it's that's sick and tired of the same things i mean i think throughout the process too you know of all of of the day ones and the moderation and everything. I remember in my story, I really lost trust in myself to where I had made all these deals, like, I mean, countless deals and countless agreements with myself. And, you know, maybe sometimes I followed through, but the vast majority, I never did.

So it was really hard in the beginning to sort of build that trust with myself that I was going to be able to do all of this. But it's also interesting, too, because I feel like, okay, we listen to the stories, right? We listen to it. And I remember my first batch of meetings I went to and people's lives were changing and they were sharing about it. And I was like, that's great for them. But I just couldn't relate.

I couldn't see past where I was that my life could get any better. Like one guy, I remember, you know, he shared, he bought his first car or something. And I was like, I'll never buy a car. Like, I'll never buy, like, what's wrong with that? I just couldn't relate because I, that was just a place where I was. So, but it seems like you really picked up a lot. Like you believed in people's stories that if it got better for them, it could get better for you. And if it wasn't better for people, why the heck would everybody stick around?

You really picked up on that, it seems like. Yeah, I felt like I think that's what was happening. I mean, I was, I was nonstop filling my head with these messages. So I think it was getting to me on some level. And I mean, not that I was really aware of it at that time, but it was definitely sinking in that there is a better life out there for me. Although I can relate in the meetings and hearing people talk and about how great their life is. And I'm sitting there just wanting to die and like not even like, I'm like, I don't even know how I can get from here. to that point.

Yeah. But I'm at that point now. Yeah. Yeah. It happened. And so there's some truth in that. So I think just consuming all that knowledge all the time was very tough. Curious, you mentioned that too.

Like it's sometimes when you listen, people are in a different place and it can feel like it's not relatable or maybe it's just not possible. what would you say if somebody was listening to it and they're just thinking my goodness like that's how i'm feeling right now i'm consuming the podcast i'm drinking making dinner i'm not getting the results and maybe i have a hard time believing for myself that things could ever change what would you mention to somebody if there was someone out there Wow, my gosh. I would say that it's there. And you may not see it now. You may not believe it, but you have everything within yourself to do anything you want to do, to create whatever kind of life you want for yourself. You may need help finding the keys to unlock that within yourself, but it is, I promise you, it's there. and just stick with it, it will be amazing if you do the work and you get through it. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. I mean, it's kind of like maybe blind faith in a sense, too.

Like if you stick with the process and you keep listening, like maybe it will, you know, click. Maybe it'll make sense. Maybe you'll kind of get started too. Yeah. I love that. That's beautiful. So you make this, so you make this decision in your life, right? I'm going away from drinking.

You were plugging into, you mentioned there, a couple of meetings, but we had talked before we jumped on here. I mean, you're listening to the podcast, you're reading the books, you're working on self-development, but as far as like sobriety support goes, what did that look like for you? Other people that were, you know, doing it and stuff. I mean, yeah, go ahead.

I didn't bring that into my life. So I did go to meetings occasionally. In the beginning, they started, they kind of triggered me a little bit. And so when people are talking about alcohol, I would start craving alcohol a lot. And one of the meetings I chose to go to, I mean, I could have changed locations, but it was, I would drive past the bars. Like on the way home, I would drive past the bars that I used to frequent. And so the whole thing, the whole experience was just triggering.

And so I didn't go to meetings very often. And but I did, I wanted to see if there was value. in the meetings for me but um other sober support i didn't have any um that first year of sobriety i really just kind of hunkered down in my house i bought a house and after that apartment and um i was just working on projects in the house and just staying in my house doing the work doing the books journaling practicing gratitude gratitude completely changed my life a daily gratitude practice which I had started prior to actually getting sober. Doing a ton of just reading, working on the house, connecting with nature.

I did a lot of hiking, just time alone. And I kept thinking that I really need to find my tribe, like they say. You need your sober tribe, your community, or whatnot. And I kept thinking, I need to do this because I had never had that my entire life. It was always alcohol. and my ex-husband, and I knew the importance of it. I knew I wanted to start building community and finding these people, but I also had a very difficult time socializing without alcohol.

I didn't know how to act. I didn't know how to have a conversation with somebody without alcohol, because I'd use alcohol in every single social situation that I could remember. So like the fear of stepping out in my comfort zone and trying to make friends was very overwhelming to me. So I was just very easy on myself that first year and just said, you know, you're going to just take care of yourself. You're going to work on these things.

Just stay sober, whatever you need to do. And that's what I did that first year. At the end of the first year, I had decided I was going to start working on those connections. Like everything I did was very intentional. And so I was like, I'm going to start working on these connections with people, putting myself out there. I wanted to volunteer for the Phoenix and lead hikes in my area and start doing these things where I could make connections.

Short, like, I want to say two weeks after I had made that decision, I lost my second daughter in a car accident. It was a alcohol-related car accident. So that stopped all the connection making, finding my tribe. I was just focused on grieving and getting through that devastating loss, sober. So I did know, I worked in the substance use disorder field. I did know two people at work that were sober, and so I had reached out to them. And I called them and I said, this is what happened.

Whatever you do, just don't let me drink. Whatever you can do, call me, whatever you need to do, I can't drink during this time. Because I know if I start drinking, I'll be dead too. So, unfortunately, I didn't have the community I needed. And I, like, I was single. I didn't have any friends. I didn't have any meeting, no sponsor, you know, nothing. to navigate the loss of her.

But I was able to do it somehow, some way. Yeah. So sorry to hear that, too. You know, especially where you were at in your life, too, with turning things around. You had mentioned there, too, you were, did I understand it correctly that you were working in the substance abuse field?

Is that what you said? I was, yes. Yeah. So you reached out to somebody there and connected. Yeah. Yeah. And I just wish I had that community. But I mean, it all worked out the way I needed to. I needed to take that first year the way that I needed to. And then, I mean, you can't prepare for things like that, you know, losing a child or something. And had I known that was going to happen, maybe I would have tried to get some friends on board or something. But I didn't. And I just, I did the best I could with what I had. It's ironic that she died the way she did, drinking and driving. She was also the daughter that told me that the kids couldn't stay at my house because I was drinking. So it was all really just an awful situation and an awful thing to be in.

So I remember when my mom died and going out and drinking, and I wanted to do the same thing. And I knew I couldn't. So I didn't. So I gave myself some time, sorry. That's okay. Gave myself some time to figure out how to grieve, how to deal with all of that. And then I started working on building community, which I have been the last two years, been working so hard on. And it's amazing.

And I have friends now, and I have community. and I lead sober community hikes for the Phoenix in my neighborhood. I also have a grief support hike, a Facebook page that I started for grief support. So I've made friends. I mean, it's just amazing now that I have community and friends and all the things that I had been missing my whole life. And so super excited now. Yeah.

it's kind of interesting too i mean looking back at your story like i've heard kind of maybe this common theme of things happened the way they were supposed to maybe not the way when you look back like maybe i could have shifted there or i could have done that different but you you kind of always come back to that things went the way they did you know for your first year to go like you know if you would have had the community to plug in but here you are in this completely different place of gratitude. And it sounds like a lot of giving back to others. And probably if I had to guess,

I could be wrong, but if I had to guess if somebody was just starting out this journey and they were doing it all on their own and just like, I just want to do it all my own, you might say, hey, I did that. And it was tough.

And now that I'm plugged in with community, I'm finding a lot of meaning in that as well and maybe say, hey, maybe try something out. Yeah. I would definitely suggest having community. It's hard, though. I mean, if you're not used to it, if you're not having those real, if you're not used to having real authentic connections and relationships, you know, it's very unfamiliar and really uncomfortable. So some people just may not be ready. It's easier.

It's way easier to do it with people. I wouldn't recommend doing it on your own, but it's possible. I mean, I did it, and other people have done it. But if possible, I say community, get involved somehow, some way, whatever, you know, lights you up, whatever you enjoy doing. Try to start working on those connections early in sobriety. So you have that support so if something happens. life is so unpredictable. You never know what's going to happen day to day. And you may need the supportive people. So you don't end up going back to that miserable life. Yeah. And even when the

car accident and everything, you know, I mean, you shared there. And I think that's just such a powerful sort of reflection maybe to the thing of where you wanted to maybe part of you go back to what you had known or what had once kind of quote unquote worked for you. And you made at that fork in the road in your life you made the decision to continue on the journey that you were on. I hear it a lot on the podcast and

I think that there's a lot of people that say and a lot of people I've talked to over the years like I'll be able to stay sober unless X happens. I would never be able to continue there. And I think what you went through with your daughter is one of the things that would make the checklist for a lot of people

I said that. I actually said that, like went through that list where you say, I'll stay sober unless I lose one of my kids is what I said. I said, I can stay sober unless I lose one of my kids. And I remember saying that and it happened. And so I had to make that choice. Like, I think now going through all of this, you have to be. You have to be. You have to be. okay with being sober no matter what you can lose anything everything you can lose your house your job your kids your dog whatever having the mindset that everything around you can go away but the sobriety and your recovery it has to stay I mean it just has to for your own soul so I remember I remember saying that and I've said that a few times to people since since then I said the only thing that would drive me back to drinking as losing one of my kids. And I wouldn't let it, even though I wanted to.

I had thoughts. Yeah. But I just knew that that was not. I knew I couldn't show up for my other kids. I mean, she had a brother and two sisters and her kids. We had to take care of her kids. And so I would be worthless if I had started drinking again. Yeah.

And she would be. she would come back and kill me if I had. I mean, she was so proud of me. So there's no way I could. For your sobriety, you had had a conversation about the progress you were making. With her? Yeah, with your daughter. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she was very proud. All my kids were very proud of me. Yeah, that's beautiful. Kind of moving forward there, too. Like, I get the sense there. you know kind of before this happened right the community you're not really plugged into it yet you shared something earlier that really stood out to me is that we have the tools like within like maybe we know a little bit more than we give ourselves credit for maybe we're a little bit

stronger than maybe we even realize and then your situation there is where you really doubled down and plugged in and you really did have what it what it took to not drink in that situation. And I'm sure the rest of the process, you know, could be something of a lifetime type deal for you. But to make progress on all of that. And I think that's a beautiful message to send to everybody because I think we feel very hopeless and very powerless in so many ways about do we really have what it takes to change our life, um, into. do the hard things with everything. I just picked that up.

I don't know if that's relevant to where we are in the story, but I did pick that up, that that's something really important to you in a message to get across. It is. Yeah, I just want people to know that they are capable of anything and everything. And, I mean, if I'm going to cry, but that's okay. I cry all the time. And not, I mean, there's nothing wrong with crying.

if I had thought before that I would lose a child the way I did, I would never would have thought that I'd be able to make it through, survive something like that. And not only have I survived, I've done it sober. And now I teach other people. And it's my mission to teach people that they can create whatever life they want for themselves. No matter what their story is, no matter where they're at, they can truly have such a beautiful life, even when there are devastating circumstances.

You know, there's people all over, all over that have traumatic things happening to them. But you do have the power to still have a beautiful life over here. It's really important that I let people know that, that they can do that. And it is within them. And like I said, just maybe you need some help. figuring out how to get it out of you or how to work it or how to navigate the world sober. Whatever it is you do, you may need help doing that. But it's all, it's all here.

It's all inside. It's already there. It's just learning how to access it. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. Just heading towards wrapping up here, coming up in four years on the 10th year, November 10th, um, incredible job, really incredible. What are the big takeaways you have over the past years of doing this?

Gosh, thank you on the four years. I am so excited. I cannot believe, like, I keep thinking about it. I'm like, four years, like, considering where I came from, how, I mean, like, like, I said, I was literally on the bathroom floor vomiting the last year of my life. I mean, before getting sober. So to think that I made it four years with nothing, absolutely nothing, learning how to navigate this world sober, have communication, leading groups, having connections, surviving

my daughter's death, all of these things, it's just amazing. I absolutely love my life. I love my life. I hated my life before. I was just so, you can love your life. I mean, people can love your life. You can completely turn your life around. It takes some effort. It takes some energy. It takes commitment. But you have the ability to absolutely love your life. I have so much joy in my life. Every day I wake up so grateful for everything I have in my life and every experience I had. All of these experiences,

even my alcohol use disorder, even like all the things I've experienced I'm grateful for because it has brought me to this point. I'm not grateful for my daughter's accident, but it happened from it. I have learned what I can take from it and teach others and how I can show up in the world and what I can do with what happened. I just, I want people to know that you have the ability to completely change your life around and go for whatever you want. I'm excited. I'm excited for other people. I'm excited for myself and my family. I've completely

changed my legacy for my children like I wanted to. Now they can look at my, I'm getting ready to graduate with my master's degree and continuing on the path that I started when I was 18. So anything is possible. Yeah. Wow. Doctor next? Is that next? So that was the original plan, but right now I have senioritis and I am so tired of school. So we'll see. But when I was 18, that was my original plan. So I'm doing all the things that I said I wanted. I mean, I'm finishing all the things I started and just just live in life and loving it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing that too. Another interesting thing that I would like to get your thoughts on. I mean, if I kind of popped into your world on, say, November 8th or November 9th of 2021 before you had quit drinking, and I told you, on the 10th will be your last day drinking, I mean, what would be your thoughts?

I mean, was it planned for that day or? No. No, the 9th, the 9th. So this was shortly after I had bought that house, and I wouldn't allow myself to drink in that house because I was on that trajectory. of sobriety, you know, I had kept starting and stopping. And so I would take the alcohol and go to the park and drink right next to my house because I was trying to keep the space sacred. I was like, I can't drink alcohol.

I'm really, it was awful. So on the ninth, I was drinking in my car and at the park, like literally around the corner from my house. Yeah. And I was paying in a big old cup. and if you had dropped in then no i would have i i i would have said well you must be a miracle worker because i can't stop this stuff look at me i'm over here and and that day i actually booked a whole trip to mexico and a blackout because the next day i saw the charges in my

email um if you had if you had dropped in then and told me that would be my last day i never would have even i would have been like well you better be a miracle worker or something because look at me right now i'm sitting here doing all this stuff but it turned out to be that way and it's so amazing wow thank you for sharing that too i always try to like kind of reflect on that because i think they're like i think there's so many people out there i don't know everybody who listens to the show but let's just say there's one person out there i think there's one person out there no idea that their tomorrow is going to be their first day. That's so exciting for them.

You know? I know. That's true. And they have no idea. And they have absolutely no idea that their life changes tomorrow. That made my heart just so happy. That's amazing. I'm so excited for them too because that's just the beginning of just greatness, truly.

So true. that's how quick it changes right everything kind of uh cliding of the world you know everything that we've been through that we thought was our biggest shortcomings in life it's so interesting how it becomes maybe our maybe what springs our deepest gratitude of that we're not living like that anymore thank you so much honestly incredible any last thoughts before we sign off no um besides i just want to thank you for this space and thank you for what you do and it is so important the work that you do. And that's it.

I just, I'm so thankful for this space and your time and your story and hearing everybody else's stories. So I pray that more people's day one is today or tomorrow. Like, I just, I'm super excited for them. Yeah, same. Is there anything we could do to support you? Just keep doing what you. doing. Okay. Yeah. Now I love that. Where are the hikes at in Arizona that you do? Um,

so my grief hike, I'm kind of doing a more in Sedona up north. So that's, um, like I said, my Facebook group, it's hiking through grief. And I do those once a month. And then, um, the sober community hikes are here. I have a mountain right behind my house. And, uh, we, I just go out the door and go to the mountain. Last week, I had 11 of us on the hike through the Phoenix. So if anyone is interested, we are here. And I'd love to have people join if they're interested in the sober community. It's a great way to just get together, start the morning, and I love it. Yeah, that is so awesome. I'm so glad that you found that and plugged in. I mean, you have a purpose and you're plugging into it and you're helping others. And I think that's such a beautiful thing, how it goes around

and we get that opportunity. I always think in my story, like, I didn't really necessarily wake up one day and was like, I want to help people or whatever. I don't even know that it always plays out that way. But I think I woke up and I was like, I just don't want everything I went through for nothing. Like, I could have just kind of carried on and, you know, whatever, forgotten about it and moved on with life. But I feel like now it's sort of a perfect. purpose to, maybe it wasn't all for nothing, you know, maybe every time I got in trouble or things went sideways. Maybe it could just help somebody else feel a little bit less alone. You know, we've all taken wrong turns and stuff like that. But, you know, we find our way

home. So it's cool. Yeah. I think when you have lived experience like we do and people are just beginning, having us to look up to or see or being inspired by or whatever it is is so important that we use that. I mean, not everybody has to. That's not their path. That's fine if that's not how they want to be. But sometimes being able to offer that to other people is super powerful. And I love that.

Well, there it is another incredible episode here on the podcast. Thank you, Dre, so much for sharing with us. I'll drop her contact information down in the show notes. But so many great things, I think, to take away from that episode. I sure is heck did. Even though I feel like I've been through a lot and a lot of twist and turns, Well, people say that. I personally, for whatever reason, I don't always feel that.

But I feel like hearing other people's stories, sometimes I'm thinking, man, I am so proud of people just to get back up, just to keep going, just to find a way. And if they can't find a way, make a way. And I think this is a beautiful story of somebody who kind of got out of their own way. and decided no matter what they're not drinking and they would be able to work through whatever life threw at them because that's the part about not drinking is that life doesn't just all of a sudden turn beautiful in every single way like life still happens but it's figuring out how can we move through and how can we work through things without drinking like we're so used to doing and these are all beautiful examples a ton of stuff

Dre shared there. So thank you guys as always for listening and I'll see you on the next one.