Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Alcohol Addiction Is Progressive - Meredith's Story

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

In this episode of the Sober Motivation Podcast, Meredith shares her story of growing up in a seemingly typical household, struggling with anxiety and alcoholism, and ultimately finding sobriety. She discusses the pressures of her corporate career, her battles with anxiety medications, and the impact of an alcoholic relationship. Meredith's journey highlights the importance of support, self-awareness, and willingness to change to achieve a fulfilling, sober life. ------------- Meredith on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clean_coaching_mama/ Join the Sober Motivation Community: https://sobermotivation.mn.co

Welcome back to season four of the Sober Motivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We're here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode of the podcast, Meredith shares her story of growing up in a seamlessly normal household, struggling with anxiety and alcoholism, and ultimately finding sobriety. She discusses the pressures of her corporate career, her battles with anxiety medications, and the impact of an alcoholic relationship.

Merida's journey highlights the importance of support, self-awareness, and willingness to change in achieving a fulfilling sober life. And this is Meredith's story on the Sober Motivation podcast. How's it going, everyone? Brad here. Welcome back to another episode. I want to let you guys know behind the scenes. I'm working on connecting with a bunch of previous guests for them to give us a life update, what they've learned since we connected on the show.

This was always something that I wanted to do when I first, start of the show, but we just hadn't been around long enough. But now we have a couple of years, what, two and a half years now, a little bit over that maybe. I'm not the greatest with time, but now we can revisit some of those people who shared their story in the early days to see where they're at now, how they're doing, and what they've learned over the last couple of years. Also I want to mention, too, if you guys are looking for community connection and to really make a change in your story, be sure to check us out at the Subroom motivation community. We have a free trial. We have meetings every day. We have an incredibly

supportive community. I'm telling you, this is the missing piece for a lot of people. Finding community, whether it's with us virtually where you can join on your way to work or you can join when you're getting ready in the morning. I host three meetings over there each week and we have some incredible other host as well. Great. It's great. It's great. It really, really is. I've known people coming to these meetings for like 18 months, some people, and they're making incredible progress, and they love coming, and they love giving back, and they love helping out new people. So if you're struggling, or even if you're not, and you want to jump into something that's incredibly positive for living in an alcohol-free life and helping other people and getting

some help in return, check us out. I'll drop the link down on the show notes below, and I'd love to see you on a meeting soon. Now let's get to this episode. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Meredith with us. How are you? I am good. Gratefully sober and happy to be here.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast and be willing to share your story with us. What was it like for you growing up? Well, I used to think I had a totally normal childhood. And, I mean, I joke that when you get to recovery, especially, or you're like sitting in a treatment facility or, you know, you're in meetings. and you're hearing people's stories who grew up with a lot of addiction, I was like, man, I was lucky. Like, I really didn't have a lot of that.

So much so that I didn't have a lot of exposure to alcoholism, honestly, other than like the odd movie reference. Of course, come to find out over time there is some alcoholism, you know, dotted, as there usually is. In most family trees, I truly believe, honestly, but in mine as well. And I, you know, neither of my parents were drinkers. But the thing about my childhood that I think is relevant to my story and my alcoholism is that, like, most of us, there was some, like, emotional dysfunction. You know, my parents are, we just lost my dad this past summer, but both two, you know, really great people came from great families, great values, great work ethic, you know, very stable, very consistent, very present.

But my dad lost his first wife. Suddenly, I have an older sister from his first marriage, an older half of her. sister who's 11 years older than I am, she had some mental illness. And, you know, having a sibling with mental illness and the instability and the chaos that can bring up can really affect people, right? And, you know, I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but it was sort of this vibe of we don't talk about that stuff. And, you know, we say in recovery, you're as sick as your secrets. And to me, there's a lot of shame that can, you know, especially in like sensitive kids who have a certain kind of wiring, like me, for instance, a lot more than my younger brother. That was weird to me,

you know? And my dad was like emotionally closed off and there were parts of his life that I've never really heard about. And that was just hard, right? So I say today, you know, there were certain emotional things that you would want in like a nurturing family that, you know, I didn't really get. And my parents were also tough and they expected, like, they're very achieving people. and I constantly felt like I needed to do well. And that was a lot of pressure. Thanks for sharing that too. I think too, like when I look back at,

I have a lot of similar story to that. I didn't really see my parents drink. I didn't, wasn't really involved with that. I don't even really remember much of it at all of them drinking or being drunk. I mean, they were, but I think it was probably like when I went to bed or whatever that was, whatever that situation,

I'm sure that they weren't like non-drinkers. They weren't sober people. But I didn't really. witness any of that too, but it is interesting, right, because you do hear some of those stories where there's a lot of stuff going on for people's life. And then there's other stories where we can struggle with this, even if it wasn't right there in our face growing up. But I think what I really take away, really interesting from what you shared there, is how things are maybe role modeled or what we pick up from our parents. Is it emotionally safe to talk about what I'm struggling with?

Or do I just try to keep reaching the next level? Does the carrot keep moving? Does the goal whole pose keep moving can be a lot to keep up with. Where exactly did you grow up? Most of my childhood in Kerry, North Carolina, suburban Raleigh. And still, ironically, I was, I came back to North Carolina to get sober about 14 years ago. I had moved away for a while. And then have actually got sober down here. Ironically, I came back to my parents' house at 31 with my tail between my legs when my life had completely fallen apart, ended up going through like that rough, Rocky getting sober, period. And then it stayed here since.

So yeah, still here. Full circle type thing. Yeah, when we talked before, obviously, we didn't know any of this jumping on. But like, I grew up in Apex, North Carolina, which is right beside Carrie. And yeah, we went to the same high school, Apex High School different times, but we went to the same high school and everything too. And it just brought me back down the memory lane of growing up. You know, at the time, I know it's changed a lot now, but like at the time, it was really

small. I mean, an apex in Carrie, like it was, Carrie was bigger, but apex especially was really small. We had a tight, you know, group of, you know, partiers and stuff like that, right? And a lot of places to hang out and got in a ton of trouble. So definitely reflecting on my end on all of that. So where do things go for you? Like, how do things look in school for you? Well, I know, right? Talking with you has taken me back back many years ago, but I joke that the reality is in high school. I was straddling the party group, for sure, but also the AP class, like, goody group. Honestly, like, I'm that classic alcoholic where my drinking and then anxiety medicine as well didn't pick up really progressively and addictively until a little bit later on. You know, I was so scared, you know, of getting in trouble,

honestly, that yes, I partied. Of course, looking back, had I known that even at, you know, 1618, blackout drinking isn't normal, right? We all think it is. It's actually a red flag. But yeah, I mean, it looked the same as all my partying friends. And I was actually afraid to do drugs at that point in my life, at that point in my life, because I was afraid of dying, basically. So for me, Brad, the biggest thing I always think about is the fear thread. The fear thread. the fear thread started way before all the substances caught up. Yeah. And when do you remember the first time?

Yeah. Do you remember the first time you drank or no? Oh, yeah. Sophomore year in high school played bartender with a friend. You know, her mom was gone, whatever. She got wasted throwing up. I got a buzz. I was like, no big deal.

Yeah. But then this is where the fear comes in. She told my mom about it. And my mom, who was a lawyer, the next morning, this kind of illustrates, again, so much of that family dynamic that was really hard for me. My mom, rather than the experimenting is normal, you know, blah, blah. I mean, obviously, you have to be a parent about it. But my mom, like, had a legal pad, and she was, like, taking notes on my story and, like, looking out for inconsistencies.

And do you know what I'm saying? There was a lot of, I never got the message that, like, this isn't okay. We love you no matter what, but we understand it's normal. It was like, this is wrong. Does that make sense? Yeah. That carried on through college. I mean, did I put in my show notes that I, my orientation to Chapel Hill?

Yeah, 18 years old over in Chapel Hill, North Carolina for the freshman orientation. And I was partying with people and blacked out on Franklin Street, which is like not a safe place for an 18 year old girl to be sleeping all night. Got my stomach pumped in the hospital. My parents had to come over. It was a big freaking deal, you know. Again, looking back, huge red flag of any typical. relationship with alcohol. Yeah, but at the time, what's your thought process sort of after you heal up a little bit? Nothing. I was like, fine the next day. I mean, I did the whole sorority thing.

I mean, again, the fear thread comes up because for me, college, and honestly, most of my 20s, was a progression of I'm trying to put myself in an environment that I think is cool, that I think I need to be in. But I don't feel good enough about myself. I feel less than. I don't feel smart enough, pretty enough. And I'm going to work really hard. And that's what I think I need to do. But inwardly, the feelings are like, you know. So I mean, I partied in college. I mean, I was still focused on doing really well. I did the business school of Chapel Hill, which looking back that in the sorority scene were two big things that helped progress my alcoholism in all honesty because it was like, yeah, an environment ripe for feeling less than.

Yeah, for being involved in the sorority for college to just try. Yeah, that environment. Yeah. Just crazy partying. I mean, I stayed away from the hard drugs at that point that a lot of people were doing because I was afraid of dying. But, I mean, just putting myself in like really bad situations like we do in those. But again, I mean, anybody who's been in that scene, it's like you're in college.

Like, you're surrounded by people who are doing that. The stories I was experiencing were not different than the girls I was hanging out with all the time. Yeah. I always thought too in college, like this was going to be a season or something of my life, that all of a sudden I was going to turn a corner at some point. And I was so fascinated by other people that I went to school with because, yeah, I mean, you're right. We all went bananas with this stuff.

Like it was just what we love to do. Well, I mean, it's just what we all did. I don't know. There were parts of it that maybe were fun and there was a lot of disastrous times as well. But I looked back and then, you know, after the college days, a lot of people just moved on. And I was always stuck behind. I felt any way behind. And I was in a lot of ways in life of like, how in the heck did they just turn a corner?

And now they've just moved on with their life and they're getting jobs and starting careers and like things are moving to the next level with their girlfriends and whatever it is, right? I'm like, man, this is so weird that I'm not able to just turn things around. And that was maybe one of the first times in my life where I maybe spent a minute or two. It wasn't a long inward reflection, but maybe a time when I was like, I wonder what that's all about. And then when I made that shift, then my friend group started shifting to other people that I noticed, like, we're not moving into their careers and their jobs after school and we started to hang out. We had a ton of time to really dig ourselves a deep hole of partying and drinking and just

acting wild. So did you witness that at all, too, after college? Like, where do things go for you from there? Well, it's funny. Like, what you're describing, I totally experienced, but more like early 30. Because what I did was, again, not even realizing I was doing it. I mean, I was focused on, I always plan on moving to New York City after college. My best friend had been at NYU.

I had just always been, I wanted to go into banking. I just had this, you know, whatever plan. And, you know, it's hard. I actually did a year work abroad program in London first, which I look back and these were like fun experiences, like obviously good life experiences in a lot of ways. but also very easy transitions to make that can be a big fun party experience. Like you go to London with other people who just graduated college, right? You get matched with an internship in your field and you're all like 20, 20, 21, right, or whatever.

And it was like a year of partying. I mean, it was so fun while we're like doing this great thing for our resume. And at that point, I could totally still hold everything together. So it was fine. It looked fine. that's how my first few years in my 20s were too. I mean, you know, you go to somewhere like New York after college and everybody's serious about like their jobs and like their life. They're very serious about like themselves, right?

To the point where I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean, we're just so affected with like ego and yeah, just affected. But I was, you know, I mean, I did things like got involved in a mentoring organization where, we did tons of drinking fundraisers, right? So I met people over drinks. I worked in a field. Well, I started in finance. And the reason I share this story, because I think this illustrates so much,

I did that for about two years. I was a trading assistant for a hedge fund. And the two guys I worked for were the smartest people, other than my dad probably that I've ever met. I mean, they were just brilliant. And I was terrified of them. And I still remember going down the hall with them to a conference room I mean, my drinking was not a problem.

At this point, I wasn't drinking every day. I was, you know, but the fear and the anxiety were there. Going down the hall to the conference room to have an annual review, and I was like having a panic attack. The walls were closing in. I was like feeling myself sweating. And I ended up getting a great bonus, getting a great raise. But like in my head, I had done something wrong.

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that was the start of the like, anxiety and the panic and what I call the performance-based anxiety, which started escalating. So, you know, I mean, my friends, I mean, I didn't start, I mean, the people I was hanging out with really all my 20s were like really good people. I mean, I was involved in a church in New York. I like went on a mission trip to Honduras when I was 28. I mean, it was like the greatest 10 days of my life up to that point. But I also had a lot of partying friends. They were all still career

people at that point. You know, and then when I moved back to North Carolina, I got sober. Then I started hanging out with a lot of shady people in the end. You know what I mean? But like they say, right, our standards, right? Are standards lower. And all those years while I was having fun, I was also ending up in a lot of situations that could have been really freaking scary.

And having the odd, you know, leaving my purse down in a bar in the East Village or, you know, leaving bank cards and bars all the time. Just like stuff like that's just stupid. crazy and alcoholic. The financial guru leaving all the credit cards behind. Oh, I was a mess. I was a mess. Was the, because you shared earlier too, like the blackout stuff. I mean, was that consistent part of your story too? It's really interesting me. I'll share with you sort of why is I had a few blackouts and it was it was a blackout. It was bad. People have to update you later about, you know, for me anyway, what I was doing and like this stuff to make it out of these two

specific situations I remember, not while I was in the blackout, but what people told me after. It was really bad. It was really bad to make it out of it. It was like, you know, can't do that again. But I thought with a lot of people, women specifically, honestly, I think that this really hits, is that you don't know that X is going to equal Y type thing. You don't know that it's going to be like two drinks equals blackout. So it's not like something you can necessarily prepare to avoid if that even is a thing. I mean, what's your thought on that? Was there something that a baseline or something there that it was like, okay, if I kind of tip over this, then, or was it just, I don't know if it's random. Is that the right word? I don't know. What was that experience like? Well, my experience was

part of it was the progression, I guess, and the role of anxiety meds. So when the anxiety and the panic were starting, this is tied to, I ended up getting into advertising sales. So like I presented to media teams and I sold magazine. This was like back when magazines were cool. I always joke. Now they're obsolete pretty much. What's a magazine? Oh yeah. Right. Totally right. Believe it or not, I sold digital ad space too. That was starting to become a thing. But as the performance pressure was creeping up workwise and things progress because that's how this disease for me has totally worked. The blackout started becoming, I mean, you mix, I mean, you know, multiple cocktails with taking colonnipin, even if it's, quote, prescribed for Xanax, which I was doing for the extra

scary days, that's a disaster. That's a full on, you know, but in terms of black, I mean, for years it would be like, I mean, my closest friends would be like, man, I don't know what happened last night or, you know, like you said, it would be like, you don't remember going home, or you had a big fight and lashed out at somebody and you don't remember anything about it. And those, that stuff escalated, I suppose. And that's where we go to the mental exhaustion of trying to control it. It's like you can know, well, obviously liquor sends me off a little bit more, right? I'm going to be safe if I'm just doing beers.

Even wine, you never know. You know, those bottles can fly through pretty fast. Yeah. But for me, it was, I mean, totally shameful, pitiful, incomprehensible, demoralizing all of it, the combination of the medicine and drinking. And that's when things got bad. But yeah, I mean, I've always heard that blackout drinking is not. I think it was in rehab where I first learned that, you know,

normal drinkers don't typically black out. And I could go back way earlier in my drinking history and see, you know, yeah, a lot of instances of the night got fuzzy. Yeah. When did the medication come on, get involved? So late 20s. In college, funny enough, at Chapel Hill, I'd had a nervous presentation situation and a roommate, a sorority sister, had given me a Xana.

X. She had been like, hey, if you take one of these, you know, you'll be fine. You won't have a panic attack. And it was like the greatest thing ever. So I already knew that would work. And again, it's not hard to find therapists who'll give you medicine for anxiety anywhere, is in my opinion. But I felt like it was pretty rampant in my corporate New York world. So yeah, I started taking colonnipin. And again, I was seeing a therapist regularly. I was lots of people in my life knew what was going on. Yeah, so I started taking Kalanipin. I was around 27, I want to say, 28. It would have been after the Honduras trip, so it's probably 28, 29. So what started was Kalanipan, then also became the episodic use of Xanax. And I say that I wasn't like douse in a bottle of pills because I wasn't at all. I was very scared of it, but also like desperately needed it. And, you know, things like, for instance, giving a speech.

at my best friend's wedding, big wedding, Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, gorgeous. I remember still to this day, like obsessing over how much Xanax can I take with one glass of champagne, you know, to be able to be like my quote, eloquent self. And that's what started happening with work presentations especially. And then that dose of Xanax or that Kalanapin rose just a little bit according to the recommendation of my doctor. And then, you know, the use of Xanax, I would go a little bit heavier than what she said to try. And it just, it progressed, you know. It was, yeah, to, I mean, to the point where I quit one job. Well, and then I was like drinking, you know, I was like meeting clients for lunch. And but then I would turn it into drinking at lunch by myself and using my expense card and

telling my publisher, I ran into such and such and such restaurant, you know, I'll just see you tomorrow morning. Like stupid stuff, right? The insanity that we do. When we're, and it just kept going. You know, I was in a really alcoholic and unhealthy relationship, spending more time with my heavy partying friends, less time with my, you know, better for me friends. Yeah. I think it's so interesting, too, even when we look back,

and I mean, I definitely don't have all the answers for this, but I think when you look back and you mention, you know, maybe the quote unquote normal drinkers aren't experiencing blackouts. And I'm just like, I've always pondered that thing about, what's going on there. And I think part of it, like, personally is how we feel on the inside is we're looking for that escape from how we feel. You've touched on like that about fear, you know, being a catalyst for things, right? And then anxiety comes into the picture. The reality is alcohol does a good job to quiet this stuff down for a little bit. Like,

it's not a forever solution. And eventually we build up the tolerance and we need more and more. And we all know how that cycle goes. But for me, it works so well. and what you talk about taking the Xanax too. Like I had a run into with Xanaxing Klanapin and all. That was actually the catalyst for one of the blackouts. And I was eating at a Mexican restaurant. And it was just, you know, you look back and it's, oh, my gosh, you know, what was I thinking, right? But, you know, when do we connect those dots about what was fueling this?

And at the time, now we share the stories, right? And we're like, oh, we can see it, you know, pretty clear, right? It's 2020 or close to it. we see it like, oh, you know, red flag or this was going on. But when you're wrapped up in it, you can't see it at all, whether we don't want to or this is working too well or it's doing something for us. But I think that's always kind of one thing that stands out to me is when we start to see those early red flags, it's like other people who are not maybe to this level of things

maybe are not going through that sort of emotional turmoil on the inside of trying to fill a void of some sort. Some people talk about like a black hole or God's size hole or, you know, something like that, right? So it's always really interested me about that stuff. But, you know, moving forward to your sharing there, I think you touched on sort of in your last thing you said there about, you know, trying to control things, right? So now it's like there might be some sort of cracks in the foundation happening or I need to, you know, make sense of this and scale back. Was that sort of coming up in your journey of things? Oh, yeah. I mean, for sure. sure, you know, it's like this idea of, yeah, I mean, oh, I just, you know, I don't, I need to, honestly, though, my life, the way it was and the way it was set up, having a few drinks a night was still okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which really isn't when you're taking medicine that the doctors say do not mix with alcohol. It's just not, right? No rational person would do that. But it's really sad, but it's not because this is such a disease of denial and distortion.

that, you know, I mean, yes, I guess I had people in my life who tried to talk to me about it or say, you know, maybe you're drinking too much or, but you know, when you're in an alcoholic relationship and you guys come home from work and just start drinking, that's just what you know, and that's the insanity, right? And I think, you know, you mentioned that God's shaped hole. For me, you know, we all have different experiences of, you know, higher powers and, you know, God of our understanding and all that. I had found, ironically, as an adult, like during those Chapel Hill in early New York years, a relationship with a God in my understanding was involved in a church in New York. It was a really a big part of my life, honestly. I can pinpoint, like I said, that Honduras trip and the incredible people I was with, some of whom I was still connected with, as kind of one juncture where after that, my entire next two to three years were a series of God said turn left and I went right. And, you know, so much is like literally meeting with a pastor to talk about my anxiety and my life struggles over pints of beer. Do you know what I mean? And I'd

already had a drink at home. But nowhere in that scenario would I have thought, I mean, I think the story that my mind was telling me, if there was one, because there were a lot of stories up here, it was you're in a really high-pressured environment, you've got a hard relationship you're trying to get through. It's the pressure. It's that everything on the outside. It's the relationship. It's corporate America. It's my publisher. It's, you know, the city. It's all of that. And I have to do this to handle this anxiety. I mean, that's how it really was for that last bit. Yeah. So this was like work hard, play hard in one sense. But then also, yeah, the pressures of the world too. You know, It's like the, I feel like sometimes too, the world, whether it means to or not, puts pressure on us to have everything figured out and be headed in the right direction and have, you know, our life set up this way that it's supposed to be. And if all that stuff, all those boxes aren't checked, like where I was just spinning my tires for years and years, it's oh my gosh, you know, I'm never going to figure this out. Everybody's so far ahead, right? So I felt like I'm already so far behind. Let's just keep it going. And it's so interesting. You talk about this story we tell ourselves.

Because I really think that has a big part to play in, in us getting stuck with what we believe in our beliefs around alcohol. Oh, yeah. In our behaviors as well, but what we believe about alcohol. And like in your life, too, I'm picking up that it's just so normalized in a lot of people's lives. It's just so normalized. It's what we do.

It's how we connect. It's just like, I mean, I spent years. And now I look at it. I'm like, okay, that's madness. But I didn't bat an eye. Every day we drank. Yeah. And that's what we did.

Some days we drank heavy. Some days it was one or two. And then maybe the closed in a little bit more towards the end where it was like a little bit heavier as the tolerance built. I didn't get the same effect from just two and I was looking for more. So it built up there. But yeah, everywhere I went. And now when I look back, I'm like, that's really the thought of the people I was hanging out with. Same story as you.

There weren't bad people. It wasn't like I was hanging out with a ton of bad, you know, bad people. It was just like, that's what we did. That's how we connected. And sometimes we had fun and sometimes we didn't. Yeah. And like you said, I mean, when everybody else is drinking the same way, pretty much, it's, I mean, that's been my experience is that I still remember. It's like the story you tell yourself thinking, okay, I knew I needed to go to, I needed to go to grad school.

I didn't want to do all this. I needed a new feel. That was one of the solutions, right? Was like, I need to go to grad school. Maybe we need to leave New York. and I thought I needed to get married to this relationship. I mean, it was such an alcoholic relationship, right? So when I was living in that distortion, you know, and again, we say God doing for us what we can't do for ourselves or, you know, that was my experience.

It's like dramatic firing, dramatic breakup, like circumstances blew up, right? It wasn't like I got arrested and they said, you need to go to rehab. I mean, circumstances blew up. So I had to make some changes that then got me on the road to recovery, sobriety and a whole new life of freedom. Yeah. Yeah. One thing, too, I had the thought, but I didn't mention it. My last thing there is how you brought up everything else around us has to change.

Like everything externally, it's almost like when I went to rehab, when I was 17, I got this kind of, this is like a weekly focus of what you're supposed to work on. And it said, wherever you go, there you are. And it brought me up to that, that idea in my life. I thought it was everything else. Like this, it was that. Like, I was getting the short end of the stick here. And I got kicked out of college here and evicted from my apartment here and poor me. And oh, my goodness, you know, why can't I catch a break?

And I mean, look back at it now and it's, dude, do you like, this wasn't happening to everybody. It was happening because of the choice you were making. But I thought the solution was in different relationships. It was like moving here, moving there, doing this or reaching for that or achieving this. And every time I did achieve something, I thought was going to change my life. It didn't actually change my life. It was internally, it was the internal work that I was avoiding, probably because it was the most difficult.

It's easy to sign a lease for a new apartment to move to a new city. I mean, it's easier than to look inside and say, hey, you know what? Everything around me is a dumpster. but it's not because of everything around me. It's because of the way I'm operating on a daily basis and how I see the world. And that was like a big shift. So it sounds like you're getting into maybe that shift. Walk me through the end there to where like you're,

because you shared in your notes before you're going back to North Carolina. How does that all come together? Well, I was living in like a 700 square foot apartment in Hoboken with the relationship. I was at a job I'd had for three months for, I was working at Fast Company. which is like a great brand. It was a really cool opportunity. And, you know, this came to me in the last, I had a sobriety anniversary in January,

and I thought back to this, and it was a very vivid memory, and I'll share it. So I would say, so I had a meeting, right? It was like with the IBM media team. It was like a big meeting, and my head publisher was coming with me.

And I was so deep in my, like, insanity and in my addiction, really, that, you know, I was like, knew I had to drink before I had the meeting and, you know, had to take a pill and all that. And I was like, I'll just meet you there. I mean, total insanity, right?

I mean, I should have been like getting a car for us and all this stuff. And I don't even remember. I mean, I was probably fired after that meeting. Like, I vaguely remember going up in the elevator with her, and that's all I remember. And the next week I was having, it was Easter. And I was having a big Easter party and a combined first birthday party for my English Bulldog. and I had gone shopping at the Whole Foods down by the fast company office by World Trade. And I did this huge grocery shop, right?

I mean, this is the insanity of an alcoholic, right? New job, I just had this shit show experience with this IBM meeting that I don't even remember with like my head publisher, like huge situation. And I did this big grocery shop and I put it all in like the, you know, the refrigerator in the kitchen at work. And I was like, this was normal to do this, right? Again, I've been at this job for three months. I mean, how delusional, like insanity. So whatever, that weekend, we had a big party, and the next Monday, I was fired. And I remember, the associate publisher said, do you want us to go into details of why?

You know, and I was like, nope, and all I could think was, I want to get a cocktail. And my brother was in town. And I, like, told him, you know, went and met him, drinking bloody Mary is, like, within an hour. And then my mind was like, I need to get, that's it. this is time to go to grad school. It's all like a new thing. This is God's way of, I mean, craziness, right? So then had a big blow up with the already unhealthy relationship and a breakup and a need to take space to figure things out. And so I, you know, my parents were like always there. I mean, as much as I might have slighted them in the beginning of this. And I felt so much pressure

for like how my life looked. They still were always there, right? So like my mom was like, oh, I'll get you a rental car. You know, you can come back here. We'll figure it out. that kind of thing. So packed up the bulldog, handle of vodka, rental car, came back to North Carolina. And, you know, but I was still drinking and taking pills. It was suggested. I went to a therapist, of course, to talk about my anxiety. And she noted this, like, theme of, you know, drunk stories and all of this. She had suggested I try going to 12-step meetings. And I was like, what? Why? You know, it took me. I mean, this was pretty much, maybe seven or eight months before I got sober, I was like really offended. I mean, that's the last thing I thought I had a problem with.

And I remember she asked me to not drink for 30 days, which I thought wasn't a big deal. But it was harder than I thought. And I started just, yeah, like doing all kinds of. I mean, I was volunteering at Y camps, which sounds terrible. And trying to work at a restaurant. I never worked at a restaurant. Hanging out with shady people because that's just the way restaurants usually are if you're a drinker. Things just started, yeah, it was just bad.

I mean, hiding vodka all over my parents' house, went to 12-step meetings, but just was like, couldn't identify, you know, because I thought these people were all just like train wrecks. And I thought that I just had an anxiety problem. But they were really nice. And they just said, you know, keep coming back. And I did. My parents were like trying to keep me healthy. It was horrible, though. I mean, that summer, it was just awful. And I finally went to rehab in that fall, went to a 30-day treatment center in North Carolina. and you know, I mean, you said you went to rehab, right? A few times, yeah. Yeah, theft, theft. I always say rehab is great. I mean, it gives you contained sobriety for 30 days or however long your program is. And it gives you a lot of background in addiction usually. I mean, if it's a good facility, a lot of like therapy, group therapy, individual therapy, whatever, exposure to 12 step meetings, all that.

I have a bit of a like cruise ship director personality. And I loved, I mean, I made a lot of friends. I thought it was like a bare bones camp type concept. I mean, I'm joking, but not really, because I wasn't done drinking. I mean, I wasn't, you know? I learned a lot. What prompted you to go to the treatment? Oh, my parents.

They were like, you have to go. My mom did all the research. Yeah, because I'd been like, they could tell I was drinking and driving. I mean, it was bad. Yeah. You know, it would be like I would try to hold it together for a few days and do some grad school research and go volunteer. and then, you know, and I mean, the way we think, like, I would think, oh, if I exercise, because I've always been interested in health, I would think if I'm, you know, if I didn't get wasted last night

and I work out today and that's good, I'm doing better and, you know, like very, then I'm okay. But yeah, just a number of my parents were like, we think you need, my mom was like, you need to go to, I want you to go get help. And yeah, so I agreed. I think I agreed, actually, after going to an AA meeting drunk. and which I did a lot, by the way, for a few months. I wasn't driving. My mom was driving me, but, you know, many of those women are still in my life,

and we laugh about it now. You know, that's what it took. I wasn't done. I wasn't ready. And I wasn't convinced. We know, right? We all know that it's this, it's a job in here. When I actually want to not drink and stay sober just a little more than I want to drink.

And for those months, months, I would, you know, I would string together 30 days, 60 days, whatever, but eventually I would drink again. I wouldn't change the people, places, and things. I wouldn't take the suggestions. And it was just, you know, worse and worse as far as how I felt. And I mean, some consequence, I mean, I was, you know, I told you I hit the mailbox in a blackout. Nothing happened by the grace of God. Legally, no one was injured, didn't even get a DUI. But yeah, I had to really test it, you know. I had to see, I'm not as best. is these people.

Yeah. You know, I think I can do this myself. And I didn't realize that's how I was feeling, but that is what was going on in here. Yeah. Until I was really done. And then everything changed. Yeah. I like what you mentioned there, too, about the inside job part of things in making changes

in those other areas, right? I'm sure for countless reasons we have resistance to making those changes in our lives, right? It's almost like that expression to hang out in the barbershop long enough. You'll get a haircut. And it's, we try, it's like maybe we have to do more research. And it's like one of the most difficult things, honestly, working with people, for me personally, working with people over the last 13, 14-ish years is like their families or whatever when I used to work at a residential program. We're asking, you know, why are things working for selling?

They're not working, you know, for a little Johnny. And sometimes you have to figure out the research and figure out that this way of life is what you don't want. and we're always going to end up back kind of the same place. And I think, like, for you, you shared that too. And even a lot of people share, too, about, like, that moderation sort of hamster wheel, like whether we're calling it moderation or cutting, calling it cutting back or controlling. Control drinking. Yeah, can even be, for me anyway, that was worse than just like, full-blown drinking.

I was like, right night was, like, much, I don't know if better is the right word, but a lot easier than like this back and forth. Yeah, then like this back and forth and constant disappointment. When I just went all in with the drinking, I didn't have to like have that internal conversation with myself every day. Hey, you said you were only going to have six and you had 12. But like before I didn't have that. It was like I just drank until I passed out.

So it wasn't like I did anything wrong necessarily. I mean, sometimes things would go sideways and it would be a mess to clean up. But when you're trying to go back and forth and trying to control it or make this work or have this many. And then I feel like every time we break that commitment to ourselves, we lose a little bit of faith in ourselves that like I can actually make all of this happen. And you know,

you go to the meetings, right? That's a common trend, right? We're sizing up our story with other stories. And so I first started going to meetings when I was like 17 years old and I was the youngest by 30 years. I bet.

And in my mind, I'm like, you know, I mean, I'll go because my parents want me to go and my therapist and, yeah, doctors say to go. So I'll go to get them off.

my back, but I wasn't really connecting the dots that I had no ability to envision my life ever being like everybody else's who was sharing in this room. Right. You know, it's so hard to 100%. Yeah. So you go to this treatment center and it's like you go, but you're not really 100% convinced to do it. Well, I thought I was. I mean, we're as honest as we can be, right? Yeah. That's what's funny. I didn't go to a treatment center thinking I'm not. done drinking. I mean, I thought I was like, you know, it's like I thought, but yeah, you're as honest as you can be, you know, and I think like you said, for my experience and totally can relate, you know, I have close friends. I have women in my circles who are still struggling and on the

hamster wheel. And it is just heartbreaking. But I truly know that like I cannot make them. no one else can give anybody, right, that last degree of interconceiting willingness, whatever we want to call it, until that person is ready. And that was totally me. I mean, I went, I think it was like maybe a week or two after I got back from treatment. I went to see a friend from treatment in Charlotte. And I knew that she and another friend from treatment had already relapsed. But I went to see them, you know? Oh, well, we're not going to drink. We're just going to like order pizza and watch movies. I mean, please, we ended up getting wasted, black out the whole Shabang, thankfully nothing happened. But like I did that, I stayed in that relationship that was

not suggested by anybody with any sober knowledge. And then going to see that relationship, then that December, that Christmas time, he wasn't back in Columbus, Ohio at the time, was when I had my last drink. Yeah. Oh, this is the relationship from New York. Yeah. And how did that come about? Walk us through that. Your last drink. I wanted to go visit him. I think. I think. I thought I was going to stay sober. I mean, I was like all armed with my women's phone numbers and, you know, but I hadn't been able to drink. I drank a few times after treatment at that point. So I went to Ohio. It wasn't recommended by anybody. Took the bulldog. And first few nights of the trip, I think maybe he drank and I didn't. I was going to go to meetings there and I didn't. I almost

pulled over and drank on the way there. I didn't, but I didn't talk to anybody about it. And then as the trip went out, you know, it's like I'm trying to spend time around my alcoholic partner in this like ridiculously unhealthy, uncomfortable dynamic, thinking that I need to fix this relationship that's so bad for me, yet, which is all triggers for the uncomfortable feelings and drinking, of course. So it was ironically New Year's Eve and people laugh that New Year's Day is my sobriety anniversary and I'm like, I did not plan it. That is literally just God's story of when I was finally done. But yeah, I mean, we were like having a sober New Year's Eve or he was drinking, I think, and then later that night, I ended up just involuntarily grabbing a bud light out of the

refrigerator down in their basement, slammed it, hit it in my suitcase, and was like, wow, okay, and then kept going. And nothing happened other than, you know, I passed out. And then the next morning, though, I woke up and was just like, wow. And that was, I truly believe there is a divine element to that final surrender with sobriety, that moment when things change internally. And for me, there certainly was. And I just, you know, was the classic on my knees, like crying, I can't do this, what's wrong with me?

God help me. The whole shebang sent a long email manifesto to all my girls from recovery back in North Carolina. And they were all like, okay, we're here for you, you know, it's okay. You know, come to a meeting, whatever. I mean, they were great. I'm sure they were, when I laugh now that they were like,

okay, we'll see if anything's different. But everything was because I was done. And I started doing all the stuff that was suggested. And I started getting serious about recovery. And I started, I mean, I was literally 31. I had not that much of a life back here in North Carolina, at this point. I had no job. I was like single, you know, breakup. Obviously I wasn't married. You know, a lot of my peers had like families by now. So I just threw myself in the middle of

recovery and built a sober life, made some friends, some, many of whom are still my friends, you know, 13, 14 years later. And yeah, it all just, it's like we don't realize this gift of freedom that we're being given. And then it just slowly unfold into this insanely amazing life, right? And it's like in early sobriety, I still remember taking my bulldog outside and being like, oh my gosh, the birds sound sharper, just like they say. Or the flowers look brighter. And I was like, what's wrong with me? Like, it's such an imperceptible and also, I think, crazy sounding thing to people who aren't alcoholics, about how when those glasses come off and life looks brighter. And you're not in that prison anymore.

And that is just a gift that, and then the freedoms have just continued from there. I don't even know where I went with that. Sorry? That's okay. No, that's great. So that's January. What year was it? 13 years ago?

2012. Yeah. So I celebrated 13 years sober in January this past January. I think that, well, I don't know. I think that might be the first New Year's. Isn't that funny? One that I've had on the show. I didn't plan it at all.

And you know, that's so interesting, right? Because these are sort of so my jumbled thoughts on this, right? I feel like throughout the journey, and maybe you can relate to this and maybe you can't. We set these like hard stop dates. This I'm going to stop here. I'm going to stop there. This is when I'm going to do it. And sometimes it works for people.

But I hear a lot that it doesn't. It's like that it's just those morning where maybe there's that interesting. intervention, divine intervention of some sort that we finally have that, aha, I get it. I'm willing to just try one more time and I'm willing to try things a little bit differently than the way I've been doing it and get out of my own way in a sense. And that's the time where maybe we put maybe the least amount of effort into it other than opposed to the other times where it's, okay, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. I'm doing this. We have the conversation all day, all night with ourselves, like I'm doing it.

But then things change when you get the internal shift of changing things. It's so interesting to me because I think a lot of people think they need to set a quit date. And it's like an all or nothing on that day. And I hear this story so common about the night before it was not bad. Maybe this rock bottom thing. My life didn't explode or implode. And I woke up the next day and things came together. Totally.

Oh, 100%. it was just a random, I mean, it was not anything. It wasn't as bad as a lot of my other drunks. I mean, honestly. And it's just funny. It's the difference of, and I always share this with people. I mean, Brad, I still wasn't, like, excited about sobriety. I didn't think, oh, this is going to be great.

I was totally that person that couldn't fathom, you know, going to weddings, going out to eat, traveling, any of that stuff, right? And I literally was still so full of, like, my own ego and my own. own just distorted thinking that I was like, what is this like life in recovery and what is this really, how is this really going to? But, you know, I was just like that classic person that still took the suggestions of what people said to do. And like you said, they just came more naturally, right? Talking to people about something before doing it, you know, going to meetings, doing the, you know, I did the whole, I'm a 12-step person. I don't think earlier in sobriety, I thought,

thought, you know, you get this like dogmatic AA type feeling or something. And then I've come to, you know, A.A. doesn't have a monopoly on sobriety. But I do think that some kind of like the resources, you know, community, especially other alcoholics, like that's the gift, right? Is other people helping us to, you know, for me, it was about really cleaning up, like, what's all that inside stuff? I have to unpack all of that. Why, my alcoholism is a thinking disease. It's like what is in my head that I need to work on, right? And that was a hard, freaking, but then once you do it and you continue to try to live that way,

it's the greatest gift ever, right? I mean, I'd love to say I'm this like spiritual giant all the time, you know, love and tolerance and kindness and always looking at my part and, you know, always correcting my wrongs and I meant, you know, no. I can still be, you know, flying off the handle, reactionary, running my mouth when I don't need to. And, you know, but it's just, it's impossible to express how getting sober and doing that work on myself has given me a toolkit that is beyond anything I could have ever imagined for navigating all, anything that comes up. And it has nothing to do with alcohol today, right? Yeah.

I mean. Isn't that another fascinating thing, too? find it anyway is that when I first started, it was all about the drugs and alcohol. That's what I had to quit. If I quit that, my life will, oh man, it's just going to be beautiful. But I realized when I look back, I had sober stints here and there, right, when things would get really bad or in jail or whatever it was. And I was the most miserable that I ever was, even though I was sober. And then it was sort of like that aha or that light bulb thing too, where we realize that the alcohol, we have to quit drinking for the magic to happen.

We cannot connect on the level we need to do the work. Of course, we can make progress on it and it can be a thing we can build from, but I'm like a believer that if we're still drinking, we're not going to be able to see the benefits that sobriety offers us. So we have to start there. But then we soon start to realize about the thinking and I did anyway, like the way I saw the world and the way I saw like how I fit into the world and how I had this story that I told myself of the way things always were

and this is the way they'll always be. And starting to pick that apart was like really when I started to realize like the sky's the limit with all this stuff. Yes. I just really love the way you put that. And that's why I always tell people too because there's so many people I get messages. I mean all day, all day from people, you know, millionth day one or hundredth day one or thousandth day one, you know, from people that are in there. And I feel for them. I feel for them.

But I'm also thinking too, like a lot of us didn't plan our last drink that it was our last one. So my message to people is always, just give it another try. You have to try again because you never know, just like what you're sharing and a lot of my story too and a lot of other people is we did not know our last drink would be our last drink. Yes. Got to keep at it. Yes, 100%. I know. And I'm also a big believer in that nothing changes if nothing changes and that this is an elevator going down.

I can get off any time. and, you know, because I think that's part of it too. I do believe this is a very life-threatening disease, right? I live in the free side of it today, right? My husband's 15 years sober. We have a sober, sobriety-based, spiritually-based house, right? That's the foundation for everything in our life. Our marriage, our parenting, are everything, right?

The way we are in the community. But it's hard, right? Because it's like walking that line with people. between that's okay, you know, come on back, just try today, right? And pray for willingness. Whatever you believe in, just pray for willingness. But knowing we can't do that for them, but also recognizing, you know, we've seen people die from this.

I'm sure you have to, right? It's a seriously, you know, sometimes I forget. I try to keep it close, right? Like how insane it is and life was like because I don't ever want to go back. I don't have to work hard to not go back right now. but I don't ever want to take that for granted either because I do think it's life or death. I remember one of the women early on

when I was going to recovery meetings, she would say, for me to drink is to die. And to me, when she said that, I was like, what are you talking about? Maybe for you it is. Not for me, because I didn't think that back then. Over time, I mean, I've seen a lot of people die from this. I'm sure you have to.

Yeah. Serious stuff. Yeah. And that's sort of, you know, the reality of it all is that it catches up in, you know, one way or another. And it's progressive too, right? You hear in everybody's story, right? It all starts out.

You know, this maybe innocent high school, you know, fun, trying to fit in, trying to relieve the anxiety, trying to, you know, I was always trying to be this different character that people liked and fit into all these different areas in life. And alcohol allows you access to maybe, for me anyway, it did social circles that maybe otherwise I wouldn't have had access to a place to belong. It starts out as like this whole stuff And then it, you know, as you go along, the consequences can increase and the risk we take increase. And it's like when I look back, I did a post on Instagram a while back. And 90% or 98% of stuff that went south in my life,

I was drinking or somebody else was. And if I wasn't, I remember seeing your post. Totally. Like, yeah. It's like a, you know, even chatted too. Like when I was getting in a lot of trouble and stuff,

I haven't got in any trouble since I got sober at all. I got one speeding ticket and I felt like I was like the biggest criminal on the planet for doing. I was following my wife's grandfather through this little cottage town. And he was just pedal on the metal. And I was doing like 30 over in a 50. So I got like at an 80 and it was so funny. There was the cop and he was like he didn't put on his lights. I mean,

Canadian type thing. And he just waved me over. You have to pull over. And my wife's always waving at you. And I was like, I don't think he's waving at you. at us. I think we have to pull over and like, it just changes everything, right? How it makes life, we have to work for it, but it's so much more peaceful than the chaos. But then I look at that too,

and I was like, there was part of me that loved the chaos and unpredictability of life too. And that felt really uncomfortable for me in the beginning of things like, oh, you mean I'm not getting fired from the job? And they're like, no, what would you? I used to work it. I don't know if you frequent it or even if it's still there. I used to work at the Red Robin and Carrie. Oh, yeah, on Walnut Street. I think that was it, yeah. Sort of, like, crossroads. Yeah, crossroads.

Yeah, yeah. And I worked at the one on Apex, too, you know. I mean, the restaurants, too, you mentioned it, right? I mean, it was rough, but I had a job there for a bit. And this was like in my cocaine days and they have an open kitchen. So I would be working a shift and then I would have to do some cocaine or whatever. Yeah. So I'd have to go out into the restaurant and do that.

And then they called me in and I knew they were going to fire me. So I just never showed up. But it was like this type of situations. Yeah. I didn't have to deal with that chaos anymore. Oh, I know. It's just. Being an honest person of integrity, we don't realize how dishonest we are, right?

When we're using and like in our addiction. But I know. I mean, I can't even. I mean, that's like a whole other podcast right there. Just all the freedoms, right? Of what it's like to show up for life as a sober person. Yeah. Have nothing to do with the substances, you know?

Yeah. In the things, yeah, all the things we learn about ourselves, you know, I was talking with somebody a couple weeks ago, too, about I'm at this two-sided sword with the awareness that sobriety brings. And one element, I love it. And the other, I'm just like, can you just go away for a little bit? Because now we're aware of sort of where we can improve and what things we need to work on and who we are as people. Like, you can't see it all. You can't run from it anymore.

You can't drown it out. It's all there. And totally. It's a beautiful thing, though, because it gives us maybe a roadmap in a sense for moving forward and building relationships. I'm thinking as we go towards wrapping up here, is there anything that we missed? And what's something you could share with people that are maybe struggling to get sober, stay sober from your own experience, your own journey? Well, one thing I remember I did this in early sobriety, and I feel like this helped.

I wrote down a list. I've told other women to do that. I wrote down a list of all the, quote, consequences of my alcoholism, right? of like a short, I literally called it like a greatest hits short list of like disaster, right? But I kept it in my wallet because if I was like literally in that insanity of thinking it wasn't that bad, right? That helped. I did refer to it some. Second is this concept of the inevitability of the yets, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

What didn't happen yet, right? I didn't get a DUI. I should have. I haven't gotten one yet. Right? All the yets. I mean, even to like killing somebody could be a yet, right, if you're drinking and driving. Everything, right? And to understand any of those could happen if I pick up a drink, right? And it's such a cliche. We hear all the slogans, but to just look where your feet are because my mind, even still, definitely in early sobriety before I got sober, is always in the past or in the future. I'm analyzing, feeling like crap about some version of the past. and or projecting and scared of the future. Even if it's, oh my gosh, this is going to be my sober life forever? How boring.

That's still not looking. My feet are that I am not going to drink today. I am sober today, right? I'm not going to be dwelling on all the mistakes in my past because I'm free. I'm giving myself forgiveness, grace, freedom, doing the work on that. And I'm not going to freak out and project about the future. Where am I today?

Looking where your feet are staying in the day is one of the tools that has definitely helped me a lot. And to just keep coming, keep trying, keep, you know, anything, you know, and the freedom. I think I mentioned this in my thing. Like, I truly know it doesn't feel this way at first, right? But the only thing I cannot do in the world is drink today. That's it. Everything else I can do if I really want to, right? When I'm healthy and I'm sober and I'm clear in mind. The only thing I can't do is drink. Everything else is limitless. if I pick up a drink, that's not, you know, it's a totally different ballgame, right? I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah.

So that's the freedom. That's, yeah, waking up and not. I mean, maybe we don't even realize it too until we create some distance about how much of our thoughts and our life is consumed by. Oh, yeah. Or drinking or making sure we have enough or making sure we have enough money or how are we going to. sneak around here, right? Because sometimes I would go to, you know, events where drinking wasn't really the theme, right? So I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to draw any attention to myself or too much, right? Yeah. It's, we don't realize, and you're so right, you have to have

distance from it, right? With how mentally exhausting it is. It's that prison of self-hatred, the cycle of shame, the cycle of guilt, and the cycle of the cycle of the cycle of the substances, right? How to control it? How to get them? When to do them? How much? I mean, it's just exhausting. And you don't realize you have to hang on long enough to get to the freedom on the other side of it. And it takes a little while. But it's just, you can't even, it's just, you know, beyond my wildest dreams. I saw a post, I think, I was a, I don't know if it was a while ago or somebody had me thinking, it was like, if you could bottle up and sell sobriety, like it could go for infinite amount of dollars, you know, just that. But it's right, you have to put in the work,

you know, and I see this in other areas of life too. I think that us as humans, we have an expectation for something. And if it doesn't happen in that time frame, we quit on it, you know, whether it be sobriety, whether it be building business, whether it be starting a podcast. We have to adopt the mindset of we show up no matter what the results are, no matter how it's feeling because we know by hearing stories and talking to other people that it does get better when that's going to happen. We don't have a 90 days guarantee or a six month guarantee, but what we can pretty closely maybe guarantee, I don't know everybody's situation, but if we go back to the way things were, they're not going to improve if we just give up on it.

Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. And I think it's just that like you said, this process, it's given me a solution that works for everything in life. So I could totally relate. Like I think I told you I started a health coaching business. I mean, talk about life going full circle. The alcoholic health coaching, right? On how to live clean, right? That's the irony.

But yeah, like, it's been such a blessing to be able to slowly build this obviously sober-based, but then healthy, physical, emotional, spiritual, you know, clean living across the board, start a health coaching business, connect sharing with other moms, how to feel empowered over their family's health. It's, you know, to do something like that, I mean, you know, I mean, my goodness, you have a huge podcast and a great, like, I'm still in more infant stages of my business, but I can easily get down on where I think I need to be. But when I stay where my feet are, right, and I just show up and do the footwork and I see all the good things that are happening and all the great feedback I'm getting, that's a gift that like sobriety lets me be okay in that, right?

and not think, oh, I have to do all this and I have to do all that, but it should have been this, and I should be getting this many clients and this many of these, and even something like showing up and talking to you. Hello, I mean, I shared that performance-based anxiety was a big part of my alcoholism story. Here I am sharing openly on a podcast. Who knows who's going to see it? I was scared, right? But I did a little meditation.

I'm showing up. I'm doing the footwork. I'm trusting God with the outcomes. And I get like a spiritual high from that. That's what life is about. It's like being useful, doing hard things, right? And trusting that I don't know what's going to come of it, but like I'm okay with that today. And I wasn't okay with that before I got sober.

Yeah. A beautiful real life example, right? You know, for right where you're at, how those tools go into other areas of our life too. And yeah, I think that's what it's all about, right? Not having all the answers, but showing up anyway. Not being completely comfortable, but showing up anyway. Yeah. The meetings we don't want to go to and the things we don't want to do, doing them anyway.

I think what I say from time to time is get out of our own way. Get out of our own way of the story that we tell ourselves and that maybe we believe some elements or not and get out of our own way, make some things happen, do it. It's going to be just incredible. And even if it's not, that's okay too. At least I did something that's, do you know what I mean? I loved what you're so right.

It's get out of your own way and the stories that we tell ourselves. I love that you brought up that phrase. That's one of my favorites. because I didn't even know the stories were going on until I got sober, right? Same. And my barometer for seeing the stories and adjusting them to reality has gotten so finely tuned through the years, right? It's so much easier today. It doesn't mean I don't still struggle with it.

But because of sobriety, I can get feedback, look at myself, you know, and adjust that back to a healthier reality. And that's such a blessing. Yeah, well, beautiful. Thank you so much for hanging out with me and sharing your story with all of us. I loved it. I'm so glad to have been here. This was awesome. I love, what a funny thing that we had so many things in common, too. I know. It's such a small world when you really peel back the layers to do it all, right? So really cool. Anything else before we scoot? No, really. I mean, just for anybody struggling. Don't give up, keep trying. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I get it. We've all been there. And you're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not alone too because it's a disease that makes you think you're alone. Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much. Well, there it is, everyone. Another incredible episode here on the podcast. Huge shout out to Meredith

for jumping on and sharing your story with all of us. I'll drop her contact information down on the show notes below. As always, be sure to send her a message and let her know. We appreciate her sharing her story here on the podcast. And if there's anything that you could relate to, drop that in there as well. And I'll see you on the next one. Thank you.