Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Alcohol destroys everything in it's path - Jess's story of sobriety.

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

In this episode of the  Podcast, we have Jess, who shares her deeply personal and powerful story of growing up in a seemingly perfect middle-class family in Portland, Oregon, while dealing with an emotionally absent father and a series of traumatic experiences. Jess opens up about her early experimentation with alcohol, the challenging transitions during her school years, and an abusive relationship that drove her further into drinking. She discusses her wake-up call moments, the pivotal support from her now-husband, and the journey towards sobriety that began at age 20. Jess highlights the importance of addressing mental health and breaking the cycle of addiction for future generations. Her story emphasizes the necessity of recovering out loud and supporting others through their battles with addiction and this is Jess’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. ------------- Donate to support the show here: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivation Jess on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mysobersunrise/   00:00 Introduction to Season Three 00:14 Meet Jess: Early Life and Family Dynamics 03:10 School Days: Navigating Childhood and Adolescence 05:05 First Encounters with Alcohol 10:58 Middle School Experiments and Social Circles 14:54 High School Transitions and Challenges 20:14 Struggles with Acceptance and Relationships 29:21 College Life and Escalating Issues 34:56 Parental Awareness and Hidden Struggles 36:24 Escaping an Abusive Relationship 39:25 The Turning Point: Realizing the Depth of Alcoholism 41:15 Failed Attempts at Moderation 44:26 The Consequences of Alcohol Abuse 48:22 Finding Support and Making a Change 55:20 Long-Term Sobriety and Family Impact 01:02:34 Breaking the Cycle for Future Generations

Welcome back to season three of the Suburmotivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode of the podcast, we have Jess, who shares her deeply personal and powerful story of growing up in a seamlessly perfect middle-class family in Portland, Oregon. While dealing with an emotional absent father and a series of traumatic experiences, Jess opens up about her early experimentation with alcohol, the challenging transitions during her school

years, and an abusive relationship that drove her further into drinking. She discusses her wake-up call moments, the support from her now husband, and the journey towards sobriety that began at age 20. Jess highlights the importance of addressing mental health and breaking the cycle of addiction for future generations. Her story emphasizes the necessity of recovering out loud and supporting others through their battles with addiction. And this is Jess's story on a sober motivation podcast. What's going on everybody? Brad here. August 13th, this episode's going to go out and I'm turning 37. I feel like every time of the year when it's my birthday, I do a quick reflection on what was and this question often comes to mind. If I could go back and change the way things

were would I? And of course I hurt my fair share of people during my addiction and took a lot of wrong turns, made a lot of poor choices. And sometimes I can get wrapped up with the idea of like, if I went back, would I like to change things? My answer today and this could change with time, is that no, I wouldn't. Because every wrong turn, every right turn led me exactly to where I am right now today, August 13th, 2024. As a sober person, as a father, as a husband, as a friend, a brother, son, everything else. It hasn't been a perfect journey. It hasn't been a perfect life. But I feel and I fear if one thing were to have been changed throughout this entire journey that I may not have landed where I am right now.

which is the most content in my life I've ever been. So for me, the short of it is I wouldn't go back and change anything. The sleepless nights, the pain, always feeling like I was a dollar short with everything I did, getting kicked at a college, losing my first apartment to multiple arrests. One year in jail, lifetime ban from the United States. Everything had its purpose. And when I look back at the journey and the story and the struggle, as weird as it is to say,

things happened right when they were supposed to happen to help me realize the way I was living just wasn't going to work. And to be 37 is a little bit surprising because I didn't see a life past 25. And the way I was living, that would have probably been my reality. So I'm extremely grateful for a number. Another birthday. Another year, another opportunity. Now let's go out there and get another day sober. If you guys want to support the work that I do, podcast, content on Instagram, Facebook, everything else, I would mean the world. Head over to buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation. I'll drop the link in the show notes below. Happy 37. If you're not able to do that, a review on Apple or Spotify would also be incredible.

Thank you guys so much, as always, for the continued support. Now let's get to Jess's story. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Jess with us. Jess, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? Hey, I'm good.

I'm glad we could connect here and share your story with everybody. I agree. I'm looking forward to it. So what was it like for you growing up? I would say I was like middle class, kind of from the outside, everything looked great. I mean, I had parents that were high school sweethearts and married, had a brother, an older brother, cat, dog, middle class. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of, I guess, living the American dream at the time back in the 80s, early 90s. But that was like on the outside, I guess.

Yeah, where did you grow up at? I grew up in Portland, Oregon. Okay, cool. Yeah. So it's interesting, you say that on the outside, you know, a lot. of people, you know, share that story in one way or another, right? Everything looks pretty good. What was going on at home? I would say the main thing in the beginning was my father was really not emotionally connected to the family in general, right? He was the provider. He worked full time. He had a job, you know, he provided for the family monetarily, but emotionally was non-existent. Yeah. And how did that impact you growing up?

I think when I was really young, I didn't know any different like most kids, right? Until you get out into the world, you think that's just how it is. But I can remember from a really young age hearing him say, you know, you're too sensitive, you know, kind of feeling like I'm always a burden, causing problems, questioning things. I didn't go with the flow of what he wanted. and then I had a mother who was trying to make up for all of the emotional lack of emotional support that was there. I just remember from a young age that just I was never good enough, I think, in his eyes. That's how I felt at least. Yeah.

I can imagine, too, getting that sort of feedback or response from somebody that, you know, brought you into this world in one way or another, that carries over into other areas, right? And whether it's true or not, I even found myself. self growing up starting to believe some of these things that, you know, the vibes you get are the things that are said, you start to believe them for ourselves maybe. Yeah, I did. I mean, I felt that I, there was something wrong with me, right? Because the connotation was when you say you're too sensitive or, you know, you're always causing problems. It's like that message as a child is that there's something really wrong with me. Why am I not lovable?

you know, why don't you see these good qualities about me? It's a hard thing as a kid to wrap your head around, you know. How did things look like for you in your school life? I would say that when I was like in grade school, I loved school. I was really active in dance and soccer and all of those things. And in general, I liked school. I did pretty well in school. I enjoyed it for the most part.

Yeah. What do you consider grade school? It's like one through five? So grade school here back then, it is one through five now. Back then it was one through six. And then I was the transition children's group. So middle school was only seventh and eighth. So I only had two years in middle school because they were transitioning it. And then high school nine through 12. Okay. And how was that transition for you? I know when I remember when I went to middle school, for, I did the six, seven, eight, and after, you know, like elementary school, you stay in one class, and then you enter middle school, and now you're wandering the halls, you've got a locker, and you've got a little bit of,

I did anyway, I had a little bit more time to get in trouble. What was that transition like for you? I was that odd kid that I loved middle school. I loved the freedom of being able to lock the halls, and I think for me sitting in a classroom all day was torture. So the fact that I could, like, jump from different class to class was really helpful. I think the freedom I really enjoyed that, but I also, my world opened up to, I had a pretty sheltered world. And then I went to middle school, which drew from obviously other schools, different socioeconomic backgrounds, just more people in general. And that was when, well, actually in sixth grade, when I first started experimenting but seventh grade is when it kind of seventh, eighth, eighth grade started kicking up there, because I think I was just exposed to more in general.

Yeah. When you say experimenting, what are you experimenting with what? Alcohol, primarily, and cigarettes. Yeah. How did that come about, though? So if you can imagine in my household, when I grew up, you know, dad come home from work and he would always have his gin every night. for as long as I can remember, I mean, that was like the common thing. Two to three glasses, but when we say two to three glasses, it's not two to three shots.

It's like ice and gin. And he'd have, that was every night. And my mom, for a while, would have two to three glasses of wine. And that was just normal in my family. The alcohol was there. It was every night. Every time we had people over, you want to get their favorite alcohol. It was around me.

And as a child, I think that's what I thought it meant to be. be an adult. That was part of being adult. And how it came about is that I had, you know, some girlfriends over. I think we were, we must have been left alone for a little bit. We were 12 probably at the time or third, probably 12. And my parents had the alcohol in the pantry on the top shelf. And there was vodka. And we just wanted to give it a try. I think it was curiosity at that point, you know, and it can't be bad because my parents drink it every night. And so we had this grand idea that we would, if it showed too much, it was one of those big Costco-sized bottles. So we're like, oh, if it shows like we drank too much, we'll just put water in.

Of course. To fill it back up. It was like so silly when I think about it. But, and so we had some. And that was the first time that I ever tried it. Yeah. But I can relate to that story, too, even where you described them keeping it, right? Because my folks growing up were never big drinkers. I never saw them drunk. I never associated like the association that you're sharing with it. I never connected those dots of like they did drink. I never picked up on it though at all really, which is so strange that I, my journey that I went on afterwards. But I remember that too. I heard kids in high school. It was later on for me, been high school and they were talking about drinking in the

parties. I wasn't at that point, 15, 16, I wasn't a quote unquote cool kid, right? I wasn't going to the parties and all that type stuff. I heard people sharing it about it. I did the same thing. I grabbed this bottle. I didn't know what vodka was, but I took a drink of this, and it was just disgusting. I was like, what in the world is going on here? I didn't know about mixing it up or anything like that.

So that was like my, that was like one and done. I was like, okay, obviously, this is not good. But I mean, what would like, what was your experience? Did you not think it tasted disgusting? Or did you have a little bit more information than I did about how to go about it? I didn't know about mixing because my dad drank it straight up, like on ice. So I didn't, you know, I didn't have any idea about mixing anything at the time. Or I think I don't even think I expected it to probably taste good.

I mean, I could smell the gin on my dad's breath every night. You know, like it's disgusting. It smells gross. I was looking for how it would make me feel. And the interesting thing is I never witnessed my parents drunk, like as you would classically see it. Like I didn't. And so I was kind of that rebel and I'm like, what does it feel like? You know, like I want to see how it makes you feel. And I thought it was gross, but I don't think I cared, which was interesting because I was looking for that feeling.

How I knew that would give you that, I don't know. You know, it might have been coming from maybe I just saw that, you know, if my parents were stressed or at the end of the day, that's what they did done wine. So maybe I thought it would do that. I don't really know where it came from other than the curiosity of wanting to know what it felt like as opposed to taste like, if that makes sense, which is weird. Yeah. No, for sure. 100%. So that first time you got into it, though, you felt some relief.

Oh, I remember my first sip, like it hitting my stomach, you know, that warm feeling and being like, ha. It was almost like, this is what I've been missing. Because I was an anxious child. I mean, as long as I can remember. And yes, very sensitive, highly sensitive and anxious, worried a lot. Couldn't get my brain to ever shut down. Always felt that I was like too emotional about things. And it's like, I drank and it was like, oh, this is the good stuff.

Like automatically, where I remember my friends were like, oh, this is so gross. I don't ever want to do that again. And then for me, it was like, I'll take the gross. I like how it makes me feel. Just in the small amount that I had. It wasn't like we didn't get wasted or anything, you know, the first time. Yeah, and that's a lot of people's stories you hear, right? Some people have, you know, that instant relief feels like the backpack comes off.

The rocks we've been carrying around. It feels like that's just lifted off. And then other people have probably, you know, like your friend's experience. Oh, this is just, no, I'm not into this right now. So where do you go from there? I mean, does this thing like start from here? You said in grade seven things you hinted it, I think, in a sense that things started to pick up a little bit. I mean, what did that look like for you?

So grade seven, I think I, it was more of a when opportunity arose, right? We would try a little here or there. I had, you know, my best friend. There was liquor in her house. You know, it was readily available, let's just say, if we wanted it. And, but nobody was getting like plastered drunk or anything. It was more of, I think, kind of being like the rebel. You know, it's, oh, let's go have alcohol.

See if we can get away with it. You know, nobody's home or whatever. And more of that than anything, I would say. So it was just intermittent. And then eighth grade came and that's when I was introduced to marijuana. And tried that. And I liked it, but I could take it or leave it. It was a very different reaction than I had from the alcohol.

And so I would say middle school. it was more of what I would call, like, when the opportunities arose. But I can remember being an eighth grade and being dropped off at the bowling alley. And somebody would bring the alcohol. People would be skateboard and hanging out at the bowling alley. And it was just like what you did, you know? Like, when looking back, the ease at which we were able to get the alcohol, even if it didn't come from like parents' homes, just having somebody buy it for you was, at the local store, you just stand outside of the store and somebody would buy it. I mean, it blows my mind now, but it was very easily accessible when we wanted it.

Yeah. In this whole time, too, you're still in Portland, Oregon then. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. So it just kind of picks up steam. And when you get the opportunity, then you're all in.

And then you get in the mix of marijuana as well. I mean, was this kind of the crew you were hanging out with? Or was it just like everybody was kind of dabbling here, there and checking stuff out? I'd say it was the crew, for sure. I mean, especially at that time, I was always the one who had the bleeding heart, so I always wanted to help the underdog. And I mixed up having boundaries for being a person that's caring and loving. So for me, I wanted to accept those that weren't accepted. I wanted to have people always feel welcomed around me.

And what I missed in all of that is creating healthy boundaries for what and who I would allow around my life. That was never modeled to me. And looking back, that was a big thing, is I just wanted to help everybody. And I wanted to be a part of things. and I felt like the crew that I was hanging out with understood me or accepted me. You know, like I wasn't super popular and I wasn't like a loner by myself. But I kind of found this middle ground where I felt accepted in this group that I hadn't felt previously.

Yeah. That hits home for me too. And I think when I look for acceptance in those groups, I sacrificed my own personal values that maybe I knew. I kind of, it was still, it was always still there, but I put it down a level just to find a place to fit in and be accepted. But yeah, in that sense, too, like, that's kind of like being a teenager, too, trying to figure this stuff out. I mean, it's tough at, you know, 13, 14 years old to have these boundaries. I mean, I didn't anyway think it past, I think past Friday. Oh, wasn't able to get too far ahead. So, yeah, so I'm just picturing this here. I mean, yeah, I can see it. I can see it to where it's just, you know, welcoming people in, trying to support people, help people, and then kind of be up for anything. What I think maybe we don't realize as we go through this process, because we're younger, is that every time we say yes to something and we're kind of crossing over that unknown or crossing

over where something we might not want to do, you know, whether it be with the drinking, whether it be with the relationships, whether it be with the smoking. Like I find every time I said yes to something that was against sort of like my gut feeling, then it became easier and easier to say yes to things further down the road or take things kind of to the next level. So you have your middle school days there and how does the transition from middle school? What else is going on in your life? What else are you doing with your life? You mentioned sports and I think you mentioned dance and how is other things looking

as you transition into this ever so difficult four years of high school. Yeah. So I kind of had this tragic, you know, conundrum of things happen. And right before I went to middle school, I was taking piano for years. My piano teacher stopped teaching. My dance teacher stopped coaching. I had all these things happen. And in middle school, I'd picked up basketball and I enjoyed it. I was okay. I wasn't, you know, a great athlete by any means. But I enjoyed it. And by the time I hit middle school, I was really, so I'll rewind a little bit. Our elementary, or I mean, our middle school got divided. And about a quarter of us to a third of us went to this new high school and the rest went to the original high school that they usually feed. All of my friends, except for a couple, went to the old high school. So I am going from entering this new high school, very wealthy high school, mind

you. I was middle class for sure, but comparatively speaking when I went to this new high school, I was definitely not that anymore. And I didn't want to go all. my friends, except for, like I said, a couple, were going to the other high school, and that was really, like, heart-wrenching for me. Because I felt like in middle school, looking back, that I'd kind of finally found my place, even if it wasn't necessarily the healthiest, I felt like I had my crew. And so I did not want to go to high school at all. And I think if it weren't for my parents not accepting me, not going, like, it just wasn't an option. I had to go. But I was, but I was, I was, I think if it weren't for that, I would have dropped out, like, for sure, hated it, and went

into high school, and I felt very stable in middle school, and high school I felt lost all over again. And I had stopped doing all of the extracurricular activities. I remember going in and, like, looking at the meeting for tryouts for basketball and thinking to myself, and my attitude at the time was, I don't want to play basketball every single day after school. I don't like it that much. I don't like it that much. And so I didn't have any extracurricular activities at the time. And I started going to a high school where I felt like I did not fit in at all. And it was a really difficult transition. Yeah. Throughout all of that, did you talk with anybody about it? I mean, your parents knew, right, they knew that you didn't want to go to this new high school. But did you ever talk

with them about why or with anybody? I did. Long story short, down the road that my mom advocated to switch me to get me switched over to this other high school and they refused. The district would not would not move me. So my mom knew that I was unhappy. I think my parents were very naive. They grew up, very sheltered and I would just say naive. Like for a long time, I blamed them for a lot of things. And then I realized they only knew what they knew at the time. We have so much evolved in the area of addiction and mental health compared to, you know, the early 90s and the late 90s. You know, I definitely expressed it to her. I know my mom fought so hard for two years to get me over there and the school just wouldn't do it.

Yeah. After the two years and you're halfway done, they're probably like, come on, we got to get this going. How are things with your brother, though? Is he a lot older than you? Is he going through this mix as well? So he's five and a half years older than me, which was quite a bit. Like we were never in school together. When I went to middle school, he went to his first year of college.

So I felt like an only child from like seventh grade on. And we were not particularly close. And I think part of that was just age. I mean, at that time, right, in our lives. I mean, how do you relate to a seventh grader when you're in your first year of college? Yeah. A little bit different stuff going on. But he, from my viewpoint, he was the kid that like checked all the boxes.

He was everything that I wasn't very smart. always got good grades, stayed out of trouble, did what he was supposed to do. Looking back now in conversations I've had with him, he struggled as well, like, a lot. But he was more the type that just stayed silent and did his own thing, you know. But he didn't get into drugs or alcohol at the age that I did by any means. Yeah. Gotcha. So how do things look when you land in the high school?

I mean, you shared some of it. Did you have a tough time making new friends or how did that look for you? Yeah, I mean, I had friends from like middle school and elementary school, like people in my community, right? And I was friends with everybody. That's the thing. But it didn't mean I got invited places, right? Like in school, in school, I was friends with everybody, no matter who you were, knew a lot of people. But it still didn't mean that I, you know, outside of school was.

very different. And I struggled a lot. I guess I wasn't wearing the popular clothes. Let's just put it that way. You know, I was like into my skater kind of time where I had my black hoodie and, you know, my bag of jeans and my vans on. And that was like in middle school and the crew that I hung out with, that was the cool thing. And I get to high school and it's like they're very, you know, what they called preppy at the time. And that wasn't me. And I tried really hard to fit in over time. And that's when enters my boyfriend who I meet at the time who's on the football team, right? Like the typical story, like on the football team with the popular crowd. Oh my gosh, he likes me.

And yeah, I start dating him. And that's a whole other story. Yeah. Did you wear the, did you have Jankos then? Sure did. Yeah. You know, and I remember that in high school too. And I don't know if this way, if you experienced any bullying because of that.

But I know a lot of people from, you know, when I went to high school, I know even in Mod's story, you know, he was, when he went to high school, he was one of the only people kind of with this outfit. And because of that, he experienced a lot of backlash and a lot of, you know, bullying from it. Was that anything you experienced or no? I would say it was kind of funny because I wasn't the extreme where they would call it like the goth group, right? Like I wasn't in that group, but I wasn't in the preppy group. I was kind of in this middle ground. And I don't know that I was like bullied like on a day to day, but I do remember one time specifically I was in a science class.

And I, and this is a thing. Everybody would talk to me in class, right? But as soon as we went to our transition break, those same people had nothing to do with me in the halls. And I remember one, you know, the popular football player kid and he and I were friends in class. We did all our science stuff together. Laughed, had fun. Didn't acknowledge me outside of class.

And one day he said to me, you know, Jess, you'd be really cute if you, like, wore a dress and got out of those clothes that you wear. And I remember that imprinting on me thinking, first I want to tell them to screw off. But at the same time, it hurt. Because it was like, oh, then maybe that's what I ought to do.

you know and um yeah when you're young you're so influenced by your peers it's hard yeah that's everything yeah yeah those relationships they it feels like forever right even you know dating and stuff that first like heartbreak and everything it's just i remember that and you know my parents like you know you'll they're trying to help me out you'll get through this and then you can't at that age you just can't see it it's come on and then like you guys don't understand come on and it's they were so right all along. But at the time, you just can't see it in those relationships and in people's opinions matter so much. Yes. And those earlier developing years to fit in and be a part of something. So you start dating the boyfriend, the football, the star football quarterback here. And how does that

look? I wouldn't call him the star quarterback, but he was on the football team. And, you know, he showed a lot of interest in me. But the next thing I knew, he kind of disappeared. I don't know what happened. I figured he moved schools or something. And my sophomore year, I was, it was spring break, and we were, you know, at the local McDonald's or something. And he showed up, drove up with his friend and this Jeep, you know, or whatever. And remembered me and my phone number and all these things. And he had somewhat whatever reputation of having a, I guess they would, back then, everybody said, he has anger problems. So like, he would fight or, you know, be hotheaded, I guess. And anyways, he said, yeah, remember your number. Can I give you a call? You know, and I was like, yeah, sure. This is the first guy that's

shown interest in a while. And the interesting thing with that is I remember initially, like, he did. He just, he had a hot head. And so he got labeled in my house as bad, his name, we'll just say Matt, bad Matt, right? And so when he would call, because back in the day we just had the landline, it would be like, oh, bad Matt's on the phone. I don't want to talk to him. And that was kind of the beginning of the end of me not listening to my gut and allowing someone who should have had no place in my life come in to my life. but I was looking for love. I didn't get it from my dad.

And this person knew exactly that, you know, where my weak spots were. Oh, did he know the story of the relationship? He didn't know the story, but I really believe that sometimes there are people out there that they can pick up on that vulnerability or they can pick up on the fact that, you know, that they're able to kind of see through. You know, he was young. I'm not sure that he like consciously did it. But obviously there was some manipulation going on. Yeah. And is this like a long-term relationship year in with him?

Yeah. So I was with him off and on, but for the most part from almost five years. So we started dating maybe when I was 15 and all through high school into about 20. Okay. And throughout high school too, are you? Are you starting to drink any more or still things when it's available type deal? I would say it started to rev up, especially like maybe junior and for sure senior year. You know, at the time, that's a whole complicated situation that was going on there,

ups and downs. But, you know, he was dropping in and out of high school. A couple of my friends kind of found this crew of older guys that were already, whether they dropped out or they're in their 20s or something. And at the time, it was like... We're just partying. Isn't that what we're supposed to do in high school? I mean, that was the thought. We're just doing what we're supposed to do.

And looking back, I was really good at kind of living two separate lives. Like, in school, there was like the Jessica in school who did well in school, who, you know, went to her classes and got good grades and had these friends in school that were all doing that same thing. And then I had this other side that would go after school or, you know, all the weekends or whatever. just get shit-faced and was around a lot of drugs at that time. And the mid to late 90s was when the methamphetamines were really high. You know, things were really changing. Even in the six years of difference in my brother and I,

it was a very different experience about what was happening just in the world of drugs and alcohol, I think, at the time. Yeah. Yeah, it's always interesting, right? Because there's some people who can do that partying stuff. because I had a bunch of buddies who, you know, we used to party and everything, but not. They didn't take it to the extreme like I did every time.

Yeah, I couldn't stop. That was a thing. I didn't want to. I mean, the other thing I noticed is I could drink and drink. And half the time, if you didn't know me, you wouldn't even know I was drunk. Like, pretty scary stuff. I mean, the amount that I could consume and still seem lucid.

But of course, I was getting high fives and accolades and you can drink all the guys under the table. That's so awesome, you know, at the time. I was revered for that, which is pretty sick when you think about it. But, you know, we were all kids. Nobody knew what they were doing. Yeah, so true. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like a badge of honor.

And I think for, you know, for anybody who's looking for acceptance or a place to fit in, I mean, it's that pat on the back. It's not because of something that maybe we're like the most proud of at the time, but it's like, hey, a pat on the back is better than maybe no pat on the back. Absolutely. Absolutely. So where do you go from there? I mean, do you wrap up your high school years shortly after this? And then what do you do after that?

High school, I remember like the second half of senior year. We were hardly ever in class. And we were, you know, the drinking had turned to maybe weekend things to leaving school. and by 9 a.m. drinking and hanging out or whatever and not being in class. And once again, I didn't, I just thought that's what you did. That's what people were doing around me. It was just partying. It was like, ah, it's your senior year. You know, so never, not taking anything very seriously about it, not, you know, just knowing that I liked it. I liked it. I liked to do it. And so in my house, it was expected that you go to college. There was not a talk about,

anything else. There was no, you know, have a gap year, anything like that. So I did. I went off to high, off to college from high school, and it was very difficult. I was not ready at all to go. And looking back, I shouldn't have. And I dropped out shortly thereafter. And I had a lot going on. My boyfriend at the time became very abusive. And I was dealing with all of that. And that cycle and trying to go off to college and then him trying to follow me to college and move down with me. And it was just a nightmare. And I was drinking more. And when I dropped out, my parents were really upset with me. I came home. They said, you know, you either go to school or you get a job. So I got a job. And I maintained all of that. You know, I did. But the drinking definitely ramped up.

I mean, it was, you know, drinking all night, getting an hour's sleep, going into work, and kind of on repeat. So I remember it really amping up around that time because I felt like a failure, you know, and here I am inconveniencing them again and the shame of not doing what I'm supposed to be doing was heavy. Yeah, for sure. It is heavy. When throughout, like up to this point, have you thought to yourself yet that like drinking might be a problem or this something I might have to quit someday? or this isn't really headed in the best direction. Did you have any of those thoughts yet or no? I think maybe in the back of my mind,

but I feel like at the time, it was more so I need to survive. And this was helping me survive. This was helping me at the time. I thought that's what it was. You know, this was helping me survive. This was helping me cope with an abusive relationship on my own. And I was able to keep all the balls in the air.

at the time. Right? So there wasn't, I wasn't having any direct, I guess, consequences that I could see at the time that it was a problem. And I was still getting,

like, accolades for, you know, holding the best parties. Like, I look back, we used to have this apartment complex, not far from where I lived. And they, it blows my mind,

they would rent out the apartments to you for a night, a whole apartment. Like, two-bedroom furnished apartment. they were running them out for a night or two. So we would do that. That's what we would do.

We would run out the apartments and, you know, have big parties. It's crazy to me, just the accessibility to all of these things, looking back now. So we would do a lot of that because now I was making money. You know, that gave me more freedom, more accessibility to things. Yeah, for sure. What were you doing for work? I came home, and I think the first job I did was I worked at a hotel. And after that, I rented apartments. And I did that for about a year until I realized, oh, everybody has summer's off but me. And I'm working 40 hours a week. And this sucks. Everybody's off at the river or at the beach. And I'm working. Maybe I ought to go back to school, which is not the reason, by the way, to go back to school. But in my mind, that was like, oh, maybe I ought to do that. Maybe that's a better route. So I re-enlisted in a college that was near my house. So I stayed living with my

parents and did that. And looking back, I mean, I should have done that from day one. I was not ready to be out on my own. Yeah. So you get back into school. What are you studying in school? I was studying, ironically enough, psychology. That was my initial thing. I later on graduated in criminal justice, administration of justice. But I started off as a psychology major. And interestingly enough, I was looking the other day, I had to pull up my transcripts for something. And my freshman year there, the grades were horrific, like just horrific. But if you would have asked me before looking that, I would have said I did great. So there's another thing, alcohol lies to you, because I thought, like, I was handling it really well. Clearly, I wasn't. But. Yeah. But it was good

for you to get back in there. How to other things outside of that progress here? At home, I had definitely noticed when my brother left for college that my dad's drinking had increased. increased. His anger, his just kind of, I don't know, depression. I'm not sure what it was, but just he turned to me and would pick on me a lot. So I had that through high school and off into my 20s. He was drinking more. I was drinking more. I had, you know, a couple instances with my boyfriend at the time where I was taken to the hospital. There were some really bad situations that had happened. Court cases, all that stuff. And, you know, I felt very alone. By that time, I was pretty isolated. A lot of my girlfriends had enough of me going back to him, you know, that whole thing. They're moving on with their lives. I'm stuck in this mess of a relationship. I'm drinking a lot. And, you know, I'm going to college and I'm dealing with restraining orders and still going back to him. And that was a lot happening that freshman year. But I felt really alone. You know, my

My parents didn't know I was still seeing him. I think one friend I had left. And the drinking just really ramped up at that point. And how old were you like at this part of the story? 20. This is at 20. Okay. So yeah, your parents didn't know that you were still with your boyfriend there.

No. Did they know what was going on? Did they know about the chaos of all of it? Yeah. I mean, they, I don't. some of it was hidden, you know, some was hidden. I, you know, my father blamed me for the times that I was taken to the hospital. So I learned really quickly, don't go to him. They knew some of the things because they had to know because it was obvious, you know, you come home all bruised and battered,

it's pretty hard to explain what happened. And, you know, at the time, your emotions are high and you're like, I'm never talking to him again. I'm never, you know, screw him, all of that. And then, you know, the whole cycle goes again. And there you are again. And so I took it as though it was my responsibility alone. It had happened multiple times. And I did not, they did not know or were aware that I was still talking to him. And I think that they still never understood the depths of the drinking or any of that at the time. Yeah. So that they never, never mentioned to you anything about drinking. They weren't fully aware of it too. I mean, plus it'd be tough, right? If that's what your dad at least is doing, like it's most, I think most

likely people in those positions probably aren't going to say you should do something here or however else. How do you end up getting out of this relationship? It took me about a year. I had what I call kind of like emotionally detached first, you know, like it was very slow. and he ended up being homeless due to drugs and other things. And I was still straddling kind of this double life. You know, here I'm in a university, going to college, doing this stuff. And then I've got this boyfriend that's homeless and it's abusive. And it was just like the dichotomy was so crazy.

And I could never like fit the puzzle pieces together. It's what is going on here, you know? Like how am I living, you know, I'm picking him up off the side of the road practically. and then I'm, you know, getting in a hotel for him to shower and do this. And then I'm going off to the university. It was just really so weird. I couldn't reconcile it. And, you know, he just, we had gotten to a place where, like, he was doing better mentally.

But I knew I had to get out. And I just didn't know how. I felt very alone. I didn't know how to do it. it. How was I going to do it safely was the big thing? And I don't know if you call it divine intervention, God, whoever, the universe, I don't know. But I drove out to where he was living at the time, like I did every other time. And I was slowly taking more breaks, kind of I wouldn't see him as much or whatever. And I was driving out there and I thought, get halfway there. I'm almost there to pick

him up. And something tells me, you better turn back around. Don't go get him, which has never crossed my mind ever. And, you know, I'm driving down the freeway. I get off the exit to go get him. And I'm like, I just turned around and left. And I don't know why to this day. I can't explain it. Maybe that was the day I was not going to make it. I don't know. And I called him and just said, you know, I made up a story, basically, that made it impossible for us to stay connected. And he told me he was going to kill himself and I said, I'm really sorry that, you know, you feel you need to do that. And I hung up. I changed my number. And I just, I moved on. But it was very hard and by myself. Yeah. I was scared. He knew where my parents lived. He knew where I went to school. He knew,

you know, my friends. And I had a firm belief that wasn't going to be. And I was scared. He knew where I, the end, maybe from my end, but I was still very scared, and rightfully so, because three years later I ran into him and he tried to start a relationship again after three years, and he got out of prison a couple years ago and tried to contact me, and it's been 20s, five years, almost, 20, almost 25 years. Wow. So now you're kind of on your own in a sense, right? The drinking really ramped up even more. So it was getting worse. You know, we talk about so many times with alcohol use disorder, like it doesn't get better. If you keep drinking, it just gets worse. And I was drinking a lot during that time. I had found, who's now my husband, but a guy that I liked in one of my

courses at school, I was drinking a lot. And one day I was at a party house that we always went to. And I had drank a bunch and the next morning I woke up and I was really shaky and I had to go to work like super shaky and somebody said if you just take a shot you'll feel better you'll be fine you can go to work and I was like okay and I'd never had that before and I took a shot and it went away and it scared the crap out of me I had an aunt who was an alcoholic I knew enough to know that was not a good thing. And I got really scared. I didn't stop then, but that was kind of a pivotal point for me of, oh, this is no joke. You know? Yeah. No, okay. So I was withdrawal you were going through. Yeah, pretty severe. I mean, I felt really sick and the shakes were unreal.

And you mentioned too, yeah, you had an aunt. So you kind of had that idea to connect the dots, at least in that way, to what was going on here. And then I guess it pretty much explains itself. if you have a symptom and then you drink alcohol and it takes it away, then that's going to kind of the solution being forward, right, if you continue on that road. So, I mean, did you think to yourself at that time? Okay, I've got a problem here. I need to cut back or I've got to iterate or I've got to do something.

Something's got to change. Did you have sort of thoughts like that? Yeah, I was like, okay, this is not good. I remember specifically thinking, this is just not good. And so I tried the routes like so many people. I tried to moderate. Okay, I'll tell myself when I go, I'm just going to have two drinks, you know, or which two drinks at the time for me didn't do anything.

This is not giving me any relief, but, you know, I'll just have two drinks. Or I really liked hard liquor. Okay, fine, I'll just drink wine. Or I'll just have beer. I don't really like beer. So I tried the moderating thing. I tried to have friends be responsible for me. You know, only let me have a couple drinks.

Don't let me have any more. I tried to just, you know, go and not drink at all, which was impossible for me. Like I cannot be in that environment. I would always give in. And I did. I bumped my way through that for quite a while, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, trying to figure out how you can get back to how things once were.

I mean, I can relate to that too, trying to figure it out. Anything to try to keep it going because we get in that spot, I think, where we're so scared to let go and see what else is out there. And this thing's working in a weird way working so well for us. Yeah, it was. until it wasn't. I mean, I remember driving up to Seattle with some girlfriends and drinking, and I woke up at, you know, that 3 o'clock in the morning and shaking and, you know, anxious and just that horrible feeling that so many who have struggled with us know that 3 a.m. wake up. And I was,

you know, there was more and more kind of telltale signs that like this was really affecting me physically too. But I was always chasing that first feeling. And I couldn't, and get there again. Yeah. No matter what. Yeah. So you're kind of probably going through the beginning stages here of something needs to be done. Let me try.

Let me start marking things off the list, which I think is really common, right? Whether it be switching up the drinks, whether it be switching up the places, the people, the things, whatever it is. I think we try to make some adjustments in our life to keep this thing going and in hopes to get back to how it used to be. So many stories, right? We just can't get there. it just starts creating a lot more problems on top of already the stuff that we're going through

and struggling with and probably a big reason about why we're drinking in the first place because I think some people are naive to the fact and they're like, I just like drinking. You just like drinking. I mean, what about the consequences? Because I don't know if it's necessarily human nature to have all of these consequences and then to be like, I like doing something. I think that we want to protect ourselves. you know, our brains all day protect us from the world.

Every time we go into a room, you always realize the exits without even realizing it, but we don't know how many chairs are in the room because our brain, wherever we go, is trying to protect us. So you're moving past all of this stuff to, you know, something's got to change here. Do you reach out for help for anybody? I mean, a lot of people try like fellowship meetings, you know, therapy, or talk, you confide in a friend that you trust or family or anything to do any of that. stuff? I don't. I, and mind you, there's obviously much more to the story. You know, I was running into

law enforcement all the time. I somehow would talk my way out of things. I was admittedly drinking under the influence and driving, like under the influence, like I shouldn't have been. And I had so many close calls. It was crazy. I don't know how I survived, to be honest, and I don't know how I didn't find myself in prison or jail or I don't know. I had all these things were kept coming. Right. So what was once a fun thing had now turned into run-ins with the law left and right, somehow getting past that, having the physical symptoms, being, I was sexually assaulted three different times. And, you know, all these things were happening. And for whatever reason, it wasn't until I had the physical withdrawal that I actually thought, oh, maybe this is something I ought to.

to not be doing. In looking back, it's like, but the writing was on the wall the whole time. I was getting pulled over more and more. You start pushing the boundaries, right? And you think that you're invincible and, oh, I can handle my alcohol. And I can, you know, I'm fine. And every time I got let go, that only reinforced to me that I could do it again. I'm not going to get caught. The cops aren't going to take me in, all of these things. And I was able to laugh off that stuff. It was like, once again, It was like, oh, look at Jess. She gets pulled over all time and she never gets in trouble. It's crazy.

You know, it's so funny. And I knew something was wrong. I knew something had to change. But I was not ready to say I was addicted to alcohol or, as I say now, alcohol use disorder. No. I didn't feel like I could go to my family. I felt, you know, they had no idea the level of things that were going on. And for sure, my dad, I thought I would just be met with anger and frustration.

And here I am that kid doing it again, right? My friends, I think it's hard when you're at that age because they think you're just partying. It's a phase. It's a phase. What do you mean? You don't have a problem. It's a phase. We're all going to grow out of it.

So I didn't feel like I could go to any friends that way. I didn't end up going to AA, but I went to go to talk about my dad's alcoholism. but I wasn't an alcoholic. So I had this weird thing of, here I am. I know I have a problem, but I'm still not them, you know, and I didn't reach out to anybody. Yeah, I mean, you listed off a lot of reasons there

that I think a lot of us go through, right? And it's the shame, too, about how could I have possibly ended up here, you know? And you see it, right? I think a lot of people, too, and I'm completely guessing here in a sense, is that when you see it growing up, it's really easy to see something that's like more progressed further down the track in a sense.

I'm not there yet. And kind of maybe even think I'll never get there because it doesn't look like this or like that. And then when you hear a lot of your peers too, it's, yeah, this stuff can be cool. Yeah, man, let go on another one. Yeah, great job. You know, that's so cool. And all of this stuff. It's interesting you bring that up too about being a face, you know?

And I look back at all the buddies that I used to kick it with. And like for 90% of them, like that, the information I know now, which is not everything, it was a phase for a lot of people. They were able to just jump in college years, university years. And then they were able to, after that, things seemed to iron out a bit. And then there's, you know, maybe the rest of us, but we just kind of keep it going and things seem to escalate over the years. So what's next up for you after this? I mean, you're starting to realize, hey, I probably got to do something here. Yeah, I felt like if I don't, my future was not bright.

Like, I knew that this was something that had to get dealt with one way or the other. I'm not sure I could articulate it at the time, but I knew something had to happen. And I met my now husband, and, of course, I meet him after I'm, like, down five Long Island, you know, and get enough courage to meet him. And I remember just telling him, he was one of the first people who was like, yeah, I don't really like you when you're drunk. Everybody before that was like, look at her, she can just drink under the table, like all this. And he was just like, yeah, not so much a fan. And that was the first time I think I'd ever heard that, you know, something that was reflected to me that was negative about my drinking. And I slowly just kind of leaned on him.

And surprisingly, like, I still to this day don't know why they decided. But he and his roommate, they were 25 at the time. And I said, yeah, you know, I really got to quit drinking. I really do. And I think he could tell. I mean, he knew right off the bat when here I am at college and we met in college and class, but our first like true meeting was outside of it. And here I show totally different, right, than in class. And I think he was the one person I can fight it and I got to do something. I can't drink anymore. And so he's no problem. And he and his roommate took all the alcohol out of the house. And he was just the one person that I can't drink anymore. And so he's no problem. And he and his roommate took all the alcohol out of the house. And he was just the one person that I can. can fight it in, that I had a problem that I, you know, needed help with. And I think, too, there was so much that I would say to myself, I'm not as bad as so on. At the time, the people that are hanging out with were doing heavy, well, all drugs are drugs, but, you know, methamphetamines, cocaine, all of this stuff. And so I'm like, I don't do that. I just drink alcohol, right? That was

the other thing. I just drink alcohol. It's legal, you know? Maybe not at the age, but it's legal. But he was a pivotal point in providing me friendship and support and so that I didn't feel all alone in the time. Yeah. It sounds anyway, he confided in somebody that didn't have the problem. Oh, yeah, no. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy to me. I don't think he has an addictive bone in his body.

It blows my mind. But that's a whole other thing. But yeah, no, he didn't have the problem. And that's a different response. than everybody else that you've been hanging out with up until this point. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They'd be like, you want to quit drinking.

What's wrong with you? Yeah, exactly. We're partying. We're having the time of our life. We're supposed to be doing this right now. What do you mean? You don't, you know, you're fine. So what did it look like for you?

Did you have any moment like before you quit or anything that really tip the scales for you? Or it was just a decision you woke up and you're like, enough's enough? Or how did that look? I think it was a culmination of things. right? Like when we talk about hitting rock bottom, I think that can also just be having enough of yourself, right? Like being done with it. And I think for me it was just a culmination of things that came. Obviously having physical withdrawal symptoms and realizing that the alcohol changed that. You know, leaving the abusive relationship, trying to move on from that, when I left that relationship,

I left all of my quote unquote friends behind too. I literally extricated myself out of that situation. kind of went into hiding, for lack of better words, for quite a while. And getting pulled over by the cops, having the cops come showing up to the parties talking to me. And I think I'd had enough warning signs that I knew something had to change. And thankfully, that it didn't take me to prison or jail or hurting someone else, God forbid, you know, driving the like that or hurting myself or I didn't have these huge tragic moment that came. It was just all these little things that are really looking back are still pretty big things. But all together adding up that just told me like, this isn't going to work. I mean, I remember saying myself,

if you continue down this road, you will die. It was very black and white to me. Like, this will take your life in the direction that you don't want to go. Or you can choose to do something about it. And that was a choice that I remember being young, even when I was just first dating my now husband, we didn't hang out all the time every day. And I'd spend weekends alone at home with my parents and I'm 20 years old. You know, you feel really uncool at that point. But it was worth it to me. I remember saying to myself, you know, Jess, you'd rather be bored on a weekend than continue down the road that you were going. Yeah. So how old were you when you quit? I was 20. I spent my 21st birthday sober, ironically enough. My boyfriend, he said,

what do you want to do? We're obviously not going to the bars, you know, what do you want to do? And he took me to a poetry slam contest downtown Portland, and it was awesome. And so my 21st birthday, by the time it was legal, I didn't drink. You had already used all your tokens. I had a guy years ago, somebody, he was sharing his story somewhere and somebody had asked them about it, it's a ride. And they're like, you know, he says everybody gets like a million tokens or something. There wasn't a million, but a thousand tokens for beer. And he's like, I spent all my tokens.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I for sure did. I mean, it was almost a decade, you know, by that time. Really? I mean, yeah, I definitely. And the amount of liquor I was drinking, yeah, I sure probably spent all my tokens. Wow. Great job.

I mean, especially through everything, too, right? And I think some people get confused about this quote unquote, air quote, rock bottom thing is you. I mean, in our own way, we go through all kinds of, you know, like we go through that. You know, our previous guest, Nikki on the podcast was talking about even using the word sober. You know, it was like feeling like for a while, like just didn't qualify for that because things, you know, I mean, weren't terribly bad. I mean, it's kind of subjective, I think, about, okay, what's really bad and what's not. But I think everybody's got a story of the pain. And I think at some point, you know, the pain that it's causing in our life either tips of scales or just pushes us forward to kind of keep going down that path.

And it sounds like for you, I think it just came to ahead and you had somebody in your life that you felt like you could share with, which probably saved your life to be able to share with somebody that this is what I'm struggling with and find that right person. I mean, what's it been like for you, though, since then? Because you're not 20 anymore. No, I'm not. I'm 43. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's been a long time since I've had any alcohol. And at this point, it just, it's equated to such bad times in my life that I just don't want to even go there. And since that time, unfortunately, my father lost his battle to liver cancer from alcohol addiction when I was 27. A few years later, my uncle, same thing. And a few years after that, my aunt. And yeah, it's a few years after that, my aunt. And yeah. It's difficult. And, you know, my brother has long-term health problems from his drinking. So it's decimated our family, for sure. And I'm lucky I'm here is how I feel about it. Yeah. They do talk about that too a lot, right? Running in a family. Yeah. Oh, I think it was both sides of our family. And when you talk about not even wanting to recognize yourself as being a sober person, I didn't. I mean, I didn't for the the longest time, I was Jess Lopez and I just didn't drink. I would not call myself an addict. I would

not say that I'm sober. I just didn't drink. And it honestly wasn't until probably four or five years ago where I was like I had a friend meet up with me and I wanted to work in this field, but I felt like I had nothing to offer other than I had held the hand of loved ones dying from this poison many times over and friends as well. But I thought, I don't have any personal experience. to offer, right? I don't have that huge, you know, wake up call that was like so dramatic and this, you know, great kind of storytelling thing. And she said to me, no, you have long term sobriety. What are you talking about? And I was like, no, I got sober before I was even 21. And she's like, no, you have long term sobriety. And that was the first seed that was ever planted in me that, oh, okay, yeah,

I guess I am sober. I just, I didn't want to admit it to, too. You know, I don't know. It's just, I just didn't drink, which is so funny to me. you know, you can label it whatever you want. Yeah, obviously I had a problem and obviously I still do and obviously if I were to pick up a drink today, you know, I know I'm a drink away from a totally different life. If I were to pick it up today, it would probably be the beginning of the end. I know that. Yeah. How have you managed to stay the course even when those challenging times were happening in your life and especially seen loved ones? I don't know how the whole story played out, but I can imagine it's difficult when you see this maybe coming long before it does

type thing. Like I think that's the sneaky part about alcohol is that it takes time, but then maybe picks up a bit at the end kind of thing. Like, how challenging was that to witness? Very. I mean, for my dad, it was really difficult because he actually quit a year prior, prior to his death. And he was trying hard to turn things around. And he didn't have a rock bottom. He was functional. I went to work.

He did all these things. Like there's so many of us out there that on the outside look like we're handling life, fine. And we're not. And that's not talked about a lot, right? It's like you hear these very dramatic stories, which are horrible. But you don't hear about the everyday dad going to work every day and paying the bills and living a decent, going home and drinking. And it was hard. I was the one who took care of him up until his last breath and medicated him and help keep him comfortable.

And I guess for me, it just solidified that I never want to be in that position. I think you can go two different ways, right? Some people follow in the footsteps. For me, it was just like, man, I don't ever want to be here. I don't ever want to be in this situation where I have my children have to hold my hand as I'm dying because I drank, you know? So prematurely I'm leaving this earth because I didn't face my problems and wasn't able to get help or whatever. Like I don't want that. And so just solidified.

And I did. I mean, I had a lot of therapy. I did trauma work. So it's not to say that I just like quit drinking and went on my merry way. Like absolutely not. You know, life's hard. I've faced my demons. I've worked and done EMDR for trauma therapy and I've done a lot of other therapies. And it's a daily decision. And obviously, the longer you go, it's not always in the forefront of my brain, but it's there. But as I started losing people more and more, it just solidified.

Like, this has got to stop. This has got to stop in our family. Like, somebody's got to break this cycle. because this is crazy. We had a small family to begin with, and now we're down to a handful of people and people that should still be here. Yeah, it's not what anybody expects, I think, right? Especially when you have your first drink or early on with things.

You said you were 27 when your dad passed away? Is that what you said? Yeah. How old was he? 60, barely 60. 60, wow. Yeah, and it's so true, the other thing you mentioned there, too,

you don't, man, I wish I, knew the answer for it. I don't. I obviously don't. But what keeps people around? Because I think it's a lot closer to us than a lot of us realize about somebody in our life that fits that mold. They show up every day. They overcompensate in a lot of areas, right? They overcompensate. They work the overtime. They do what they got to do. They show up for their birthday parties. They do all that stuff. But there's that fight going on on the inside about that tug of war maybe, about drinking and not drinking. And I think it's really hard when you do anything,

whether every day, I know people in my life, they do it every day, 30 years, 40 years, every day. And you got to just with the science and stuff that we know about, the changes to the brain and stuff, because of course we want to be like, come on, you know, snap out of it, smarten up, get some help. Well, you know, I think that's all natural stuff, but we know the changes to the brain

and especially with that duration of time, is that if you do quit, it's really hard to feel any joy or any dopamine or anything for quite some time. And I think that that's really one of the things that keeps people coming back. Plus, the numbing effects, and now all of the feelings come to the surface and everything that we haven't dealt with in our life. And it's a really tough thing to see.

It's really, really tough. But you're onto something there where if you've got to change, you know, work on change. changing how this thing plays out. And I heard something really incredible about that, the generation and how we've got to change the course of things for our families, whether it be dealing with healing processes of different sorts or when it comes to alcohol,

is that it truly changes when our kids make the change. Because we, I mean, we were a part of it. We're changing now, but it still affected us. So when our kids come up and, you know, hopefully they don't have to go through this struggle as well, And that'll be when we truly can have a really good chance of putting a stop to this for the generations to come. And I think that that is an extremely powerful, selfless motivation to keep in mind as well. Yeah, that that is my driving force, is my children and also helping, I now do one-to-one

coaching. And I'm so passionate about helping other people break the cycle for their families, because that's how it's done. It's one family at a time, one person at a time saying enough is enough, you know, recognizing if there's mental health issues in your family that a lot of times leads to people having addiction problems. Let's address those. Let's talk about it. Let's not, you know, cover it up. And I hope that the fruits of my labor I will see in my children. I can't guarantee it. You know, I've seen people who have broken the cycle and their kids unfortunately fall victim to it as well. And I think it's so important just to remember. that it's a disease. You know, it's not a moral failure. Like, my dad was no, you know, morally inept person because he couldn't, you know, beat the disease. And even though he got sober, the damage had been done. And, you know, as we're learning more and more about the physical damage, right? Things that happen that I think it's just important to have an open dialogue. I mean, my twins are nine and they know what sober means. They know what alcohol use disorder is. They know all of that stuff. And my son the other day said to me, you know, I probably shouldn't drink

because I probably won't be able to maybe drink it like other people. And I haven't been that explicit at all. But he's picked up on it. You know, and I was like, yeah, buddy, that's probably a good choice. So that is just my main driving force. It's like, enough's enough. It's got to stop. And hopefully the next generation will not have to learn to manage it and can manage feelings. I think, you know, we're a culture where we don't like to feel our feelings. So learning to feel our feelings is a big thing. Yeah. So, so, so true.

I'm thinking too, like, my kids just love the sober buddy character. Oh, same here. Same here. Who are you talking to? You're sober buddies. And then they just start giggling. I'm like, what do you guys do? What do you guys give me a hard time for?

Like, I get it from every direction. Uh-huh. But I think that is so powerful. And even like, you know, it's terrifying to think about as a parent, kids, our kids or, or any kids, really, you know, having to go through what we had to go through, right? And I think by us staying sober, I think we can, you know, we're not going to prevent it. Not going to, I'm not that naive in a sense that we're going to prevent it. But I do hope further down the road if they were ever to end up in a spot, you know,

they would have somebody to talk to and somebody to look up to and whether that's going to change the course of things. I don't know, but I do feel comfortable saying that it's going to be more helpful than if things were the other way. I think it would be more part of the solution than things were the other way. And they watch everything and they see everything. And we hear a lot of those stories too where I've heard a lot on the podcast, right? The kids are fetching the beers and they're finishing the little sips, you know, when they're younger.

And we don't think of anything at the time. but like they you know what I mean like when I'm working in the backyard with my tools my son he's too and he always brings me the tools he loves the tools then he sees a tool set at Costco he wants to buy the tools so like as much as I'm like he he doesn't he's two years old what is he he knows everything that is going on and if I had him fetching beers and then he's alone in the garage one day and I had beers in the garage well what do you think he's going to fetch you know and is it going to be catastrophic at that point maybe maybe not like But it's still, it's like, I think that example, it's so important to me as well.

And it sounds like for you too, right? Let's just set that example and kind of have the best shot of what we can control. And that's not everything, but we can control what we do day in and day out to set a positive example. When a time is right, share the stories. Yeah, yeah. And I think just being open and honest, like there's so much that I wasn't talked to about as a child that, you know, my parents didn't. thought they didn't need to, or it was just the way that they were raised where you didn't talk about that stuff. I don't blame them. A lot of things have changed as far as this day and

age, talking about mental health and all of those things. But my hope is to have an open enough dialogue, like you had talked about that, you know, if they find themselves in a situation, I hope the first person they call is me. And instead of trying to hide it or deal with it on their own or whatever, like, call me. I've been there. I can help. And that's what I hope for. That will be a success to me. Do I think that they'll never drink in their life? I mean, that would be great, but I don't know that that's realistic. But call me.

I'm here. And that's what I hope gets across, that there won't be judgment and there won't be all of that. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. Anything else, Jess, that you would like to mention before we sign off? Yeah. I mean, I guess my main thing is for people to recover out loud, for those that can't yet. You know, let's keep giving people a voice.

that you haven't found theirs yet and really get rid of that stigma and the shame that goes along with a disease, truly a disease and not a moral failure. I think we need to keep pounding that into the pavement for people to understand and also, you know, breaking the cycle for the next generation. Let's see if we can get these kids to learn how to deal with their feelings in a helpful manner, healthy way. Yeah. And I'm so glad that I have found my voice.

I can admit, you know, what I've been through and hopefully inspire and help other people to do the same is really why I'm here. Yeah, well, you've done just that in the episode today and everything else you're doing. So thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Well, there it is, everyone. Another incredible episode here on the podcast. Thank you, Jess, so much for jumping on here.

And sharing your story with all of us. Incredible work that you've done, that you're doing. and I'll drop Jess's Instagram channel down on the show notes below so if you want to send over a message you're able to relate with some of our story or just say thank you. Please do that.

I know the guests love hearing from all of you. And I'll see you on the next one.