Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Alcohol helped Gill cope with life, until it didn’t.

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

In this episode, we have Gill, who struggled early on in life with a lot of anger, and she would occasionally have friends growing up but because of being bullied so much in her youth, Gill's self-esteem and confidence were suffering. She focused a lot of her energy on her studies and excelled in the classroom. At home, things were also a struggle, and she is grateful for her close relationship with her brother and her love for video games. It wasn't until graduate school that Gill really became drawn into drinking alcohol as a way to cope with how life was playing out. This is Gill’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. ----------- Follow Gill on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sober.powered/ Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sobermotivation/ Donate to support the show: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivation Check out the Sober Motivation Merch Shop: www.sobermotivationshop.com Check out SoberLink: www.soberlink.com/recover  

Welcome to Season 3 of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, we have Jill, who struggled early on in life with a lot of anger, and she would occasionally have friends growing up, but because of being bullied so much in her youth, Jill's self-esteem and confidence were suffering.

She focused a lot of her energy on her studies and excelled in a classroom. At home, things were also a struggle, and she is grateful for her close relationship with their brother and her love for video games. It wasn't until graduate school that Jill really became drawn into drinking alcohol as a way to cope with how life was playing out. This is Jill's story on the Subur Motivation podcast. How's it going, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the show. If you want to support the show, here's three options.

and three ways you could do so. Head over to the T-shirt, merchandise shop, Sobermotivation shop.com, worldwide shipping, cheap shipping. We also have the ever-famous custom sober date sweatshirt where you can type in your sober date

and you get it printed on the sweatshirt when you get it sent to you. You can also check out the Subur Motivation Gratitude Journal that I put together, putting in some of the things that helped me stay sober and get to where I am today.

I put all that in there. It's a digital print. It's five bucks. or you could just donate at buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation. I'll drop all the links in the show notes. I really hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did hearing Jill's story. She's incredible. Now, let's get to this show here after we hear from Soberlink.

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Go after your goals. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device today. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Jill with us. Jill, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Yeah, I'm well. I'm glad we jump on here. I mean, we're rounding about 100 episodes on the first year of the show.

And I think it's due time that we have you on to share your story. Well, thank you for inviting me. I think what you're doing is really amazing. You're bringing hope to a lot of people. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. It means a lot.

How we start every episode you're familiar with. What was it like for you growing up? My childhood, I would say, it was a lot of anger. That really sums up, like, overall what my children was. childhood was about. I was bullied a lot. So I had a lot of anger around the bullying and then my parents didn't have a good relationship. So I had a lot of anger around that too. And for me, I just didn't know what to do with it. That was the hardest thing for me. I had no idea what to do with all of this anger. Yeah. So what did you do with it though when you were younger? Yeah, I started with things besides

alcohol. So my first love was controlling food and being very critical about my body and the way that it looked. I started that pretty young, like constant dieting, even though I didn't need a diet and worrying about how to lose weight. And I found that that just gave me somewhere to channel my anger and all that extra energy. But I never learned what to actually do with it. So I just walked around angry all the time because I was bullied. When I was growing up, I never had friends really. I'd have maybe occasional times where I had a couple friends. But most of the time I was just hanging out at home with my brother.

So I played a ton of video games. That was my outlet was just like getting absorbed into a game for 14 hours in a day. Yeah. What games? I started with those online games like Doom and Quake where you play with people all around the world and they're just like FPS games like shooters

Yeah Do you ever play RuneScape? No, but I've heard that that's really good But I have not played that Oh, I used to love that back in the dial-up days You used to have these characters And you'd go into this place called the Wilderness And then you could battle other people

And if you beat them you'd get all their armor and stuff And it was really fun But then somebody would call Or my folks would pick up the phone and then you're done. And you would get taken out and you lose all your stuff. I mean, it was just crazy. It was actually really fun, but I used to game too.

I used to play games. CounterStrike. Yes. Oh my God. Do you know FPS Doug? I was never like a professional or anything. I have to send you this video later of this guy, FPS Doug, who played Counterstrike.

It's hilarious. I'm going to send it to you. You'll love it. Okay, cool. Yeah, I used to do that. So I'm with you on that. That was definitely something I clung to. as well for community and stuff, right? It was easy because I share a little bit of that same story,

right? I was bullied and like maybe not, my earlier years, not outright bullied, but I was excluded. That was a little bit different, I guess, to be kind to myself. I was a little bit different in the way to connect was online, right? Because these people were interested in connecting virtually. And I felt like I could kind of be myself a little bit through the environment. So where did you grow up. You're in Boston now or somewhere around Boston, but are you originally from there? Yeah, always from here. So I grew up in the suburbs and the Boston area, and now I'm just a bit closer to Boston. Gotcha. Where's the accent at? I know. Thankfully, I don't have it. My mom has one, but I never picked it up. Yeah, because I'm thinking, yeah, I grew up with a buddy from

Boston, he would always say, ca, get to the cars. And I don't hear that with you. So going on from there. So, I mean, things in high school, in middle school, that's what things look like just consistently throughout. Yeah, so fifth grade was when the bullying started. Before that, I was just a regular little kid. And the bullying started in fifth grade. And then it continued until I graduated high school. And I would try to put myself out there. But then every time I would get rejected, it would just beat down my self-confidence and it changes your personality. I'm naturally like a friendly, bubbly type of person and it made me really quiet and introverted. Even after the bullying stopped, it would take years for me to come back to myself because I just didn't feel safe.

So I would just go to school and I would do my schoolwork and really focus on that hard and then come home and play video games with my brother and just repeat that for years and years. Yeah. That's nice you had your brother to connect with in a sense, right? Is that your only sibling is your brother? Yeah, it's me and my brother and we're still best friends to this day. He was the brother of honor in my wedding and then I was the best sister for his wedding and we hang out all the time, text every day. So I'm very thankful that I had him because otherwise just truly would have been alone all the time. Yeah. What about a relationship with your parents?

Do you talk with them about what you're going through? Or is there any therapy or any intervention at this point in your life? No therapy. That probably would have been very helpful if I could have had therapy to learn what to do with that anger and the low self-esteem instead of turning towards trying to control my body. My mom and I have always had a very close relationship, so I spent a ton of time with her. And my dad, I have never had a good relationship with, even though my parents stayed married until I was out of the house. So he was always around, but around the age that the bullying started, I was old enough to develop some awareness of what my parents' marriage was like.

and kind of learning more about the dynamics and how my dad treated my mom, it made me really angry and it made me really not like him. So then that caused a lot of anger too because I felt like even my home was not a safe space for me to just be. Like I always had this person in my home that I didn't like that made me feel angry. and my mom was drinking to cope with the bad marriage. So I was observing that and trying to support her through that. That's kind of for shadowing, I guess, for my life. But it was difficult, really.

Games were my only place to go. Like, I would go to school and everyone was mean to me or ignored me. I'd come home with someone I didn't like and I didn't have any friends to go out with. So I was just always in places where I didn't feel. feel good. Yeah. My goodness, Jill. It's a lot.

I reflect back on the high school years, too, and say that it's maybe some of the hardest years of my life because, like, I wasn't always perfect either because as I got bullied and treated a certain way, I think I took upon that person, too. I wanted to get to the punchline before other people did. It's definitely not something I'm proud. That's how it all played out. But that was, like, the way to deal with it to go through it. we hear a lot of times that like anger, because you bringing this up consistently feeling this way,

that it's in sense of secondary emotion to maybe other stuff, you know, there's other stuff kind of going on, right? It just sounds like a lot of rejection. And then I don't know, this might be not at all what it is, but I think after a while we start to maybe believe some of this stuff about ourselves, you know, I'm just no good, right? I just don't belong anywhere. And you find an escape and maybe like an early addiction to the escape that the games offer, right? a way to get your mind off of things. And yeah, I think that's a pretty common thing, right? Even before, a lot of people you hear their stories, when they get into the addiction

of alcohol or other substances, right? If you backtrack a little bit, you can usually find something in there that we've been maybe obsessed with before, but we find the alcohol. I don't know if that relates to anything, but just a few thoughts I had. Yeah, definitely. And I did start to believe all of it because when it's reinforced for years and you, years and years and you're consistently rejected by your peers, you do think that there's something wrong with you. Like, I was the common denominator in all of it, right? So it had to be that I sucked.

And I really believe that there was something not likable about me. Yeah, no, I hear you on that. So how do you move forward from here? And you know what another thing I thought of there before we even moved past that is you mentioned like there wasn't any significant interventions for support. you know what I think clouds it sometimes is if you do well in school, a lot of people say, you're doing well. Everything's gravy. You're doing well. Like for me, it was the opposite in a sense.

I didn't do well. I didn't show up. And then people would intervene, but only on that basis, not on the basis of you're struggling with depression, anxiety. And yeah, I could list off so many different things. But the conversation was always approached as like, let's get you doing well in school, Brad, because if you don't do well in school, then your life is not going to be good. And I believe that.

And then I struggled with the fact that I can't do well in school. I never was interested at all. So I got to a spot where I just kind of accepted it. Well, like, life's just going to suck. So let's ride the wheels off this thing. And a lot of people, too, can hyper-focused into doing well in school. So maybe fly under the radar a bit. I'm really glad that you brought that up because I completely agree.

I always did well in school. I was just a respectful little quiet, studious girl who always did my homework, was nice in my teachers, got good grades, always did my homework, no one had to ever ask. And I do think that that's a big reason that there were no concerns about me, because on the outside, everything seemed good. But then I had all of these emotions that I just couldn't cope with, and it just kind of got put off to the side until I would try to find external ways. to deal with it. But part of this too is doing well in school made me really link that to myself worth. That would be a major struggle for me later and it still is a little bit. But I thought like this is the only good thing about me that I do good in school and I'm kind of smart and people seem proud of me when I do a good job. And I got stuck in that belief. And I felt like I didn't have

anything else that was worthy. Yeah. And that's a good thing when it works out. But maybe we'll get there down the road where you maybe face challenges. And then it's like, I can't get this. But so after high school, 18 years old, where do you go from there? So I went to college. I was majoring in chemistry. And I originally wanted to do psychology. I wanted to become a therapist and work with people that were, like, seriously struggling. Like, they couldn't function in day-to-day life because their struggles were so severe. Or work in a prison and help people in there. But then people kept saying, you're so good at science, though, and you're so good at math,

and we need more women in STEM, and it's going to be so easy for you to get a job. and make a lot of money and all these things. So I went with chemistry. And I got to college, and even though I lived at home, I had more freedom because I had a car now. And I could make my own decisions because I had a credit card now. Could do whatever I wanted. And that was when the food and body obsession really took off.

My first year was difficult for me. because I was coming into it thinking, like, no, it's going to like me. So I was weird, and I didn't put myself out there. I also had, like, this stalker briefly. I had a lot of things going on in my first year that were unfortunate and traumatic and upsetting. And I was very sheltered coming into it because I never went to a party. I never did anything because I had no opportunities. So I get to college and now I have freedom.

I still have these emotions that I can't deal with. So I turn to restricting food. And I would research every day like how to lose weight. Best way to lose weight. And I would do like all of these things to track. And that just made my mental health worse, that obsession. But it was really an outlet for how I was feeling and all of the things. feelings that I couldn't explain and I couldn't do anything with. Because I had come into college,

not really drinking, I just continued not to drink and focus on school. It would take me years, like, till my junior year to start putting myself out there and getting comfortable, like, believing that people would like me. So I didn't go to college parties. So I didn't have opportunities to drink and do the things that other college kids were doing. So I kind of stayed sheltered and I just focused on getting good grades. Yeah. Walk me through that a little bit if you don't mind. I mean, the thing with eating and tracking everything, how is that helping you out in a way to cope with what's going on? When I talk to my husband about it, I call it the power. And that's not a good way to refer to it

and I don't really believe that. But that is how I felt at the time. I thought that when I was successful in restricting food or not eating for an entire day, that I was like harnessing this power. And I was proving how tough I was compared to other people. Like, oh, you guys need to eat lunch, but I don't have to eat lunch. Things like that, it made me feel more in control and secure in a very out of control, angry life. It was like the only thing that I had that would make me feel better. But then obsessing about food and weight all the time really made my mental health a lot worse. And it then leads to binges and shame and all these other bad things. So I didn't actually get like this quote power from it. But that is how it would make me feel.

And that was kind of what I was chasing. That makes a lot of sense, right? And I talked with one guy, this was years ago. But he was like, oh, you guys who struggle with the drugs and alcohol, you guys got it easy. And I was like, whoa, what are you talking about? Because he struggled with food. Yeah, you have to have it. You know, it's something you have to have to survive.

Yeah, that I think makes it even more complicated. But yeah, thanks for sharing that because I can't imagine it's easy, right, to reflect back on how things were and, you know, all that jazz, right? So thank you. You know, because there's been a lot of people on the show that share a tad bit here and there. This definitely popped up before everything else, maybe getting out of control. So you do well in school. I'm guessing you graduate, right? I mean, you're sober power to scientists.

A lot of addiction podcast. So you graduate that. Do you ever hit any of these parties in college? Do you ever just say, you know, I'm just going to tear it up one day and jump in here? Never. I was very proud that I didn't drink. I saw what other people were doing, and it looked like it sucked. Like, it didn't look like they were having fun when they were blacking out and hooking up with

random guys and throwing up in the frat house. I heard all of these stories, and I was like, why are people doing this? I don't think anyone's having fun. I used to go on dates and not drink. I was just very secure in not drinking. And I also observed, I never saw good drinking. Like I had this idea from the media and from movies about what the romantic type of drinking is, like being all fancy, sharing a bottle of wine. I wanted to do that eventually with my husband and be all classy and whatever.

But all of the actual drinking that I saw was not good drinking. Like I saw my mom drinking to cope with her marriage. She was not having fun drinking. And then I saw all of these people at college. like getting bad grades or being hungover or missing class or having a lot of shame and regret because of their drinking. So at that point, there wasn't anything that I was envying. And I felt like I fit in just fine without it. But then after college, I went to grad school.

And that's when I started drinking because every single person except me did it. and I had this panic that I would be rejected if I didn't do it to. I felt all of a sudden like it wasn't okay to not drink and I had to fit in. And I just started ordering what other people would order because I didn't know how to drink. I was 22. I had never really, like I had added beer like occasionally, but I never got a buzz off of it. I never understood the appeal. So I just started getting what people around me would get until I figured it out.

And that first time I got a buzz for real, I was like, I get it. I get why everybody is doing this and why they're having these bad experiences, because this is awesome. This is the best thing ever. Yeah. Yeah, that's the truth. Yeah. I mean, at first it works so well, right?

It does the trick. The insecurities melt away. the low self-esteem is forgotten about. You know, the big thing it did for me is it had a sense of belonging. Yeah. I feel like I belong because then you're fitting in with other people. And that's, you know, people would invite you places and you could become part of that social circle that I was craving for so long to be a part of. And then now I'm like, wow, with just this one thing, you know, we can all get together and be people we aren't.

And it was great. Yes, that's good. I think the thing, too, with your mom you shared there, you know, definitely had an impact on things. right? If you witness that growing up, then you can hold off for maybe a little bit longer. Some people forever, you know, different, for different people, different stories. But yeah, you can hold off from that. So what's that first time you catch that buzz? Is that you're out with the friends or how does that play out? Yeah. So when you go to grad school for science, you basically work full time and go to classes. So I was working in a lab all day and I would have my classes.

And everybody was doing the same. So it was almost like a. a job. We would work all day and then we'd go to the bar for dinner every single night almost, or the school would have like pizza and beer night for the grad students or there'd be a bunch of parties. Alcohol was really normal in grad school. If you had a lot of stress or you were having a bad day, it was the norm to drink tequila in a red cup in the afternoon in the school. So I just learned to like, this is what adults do. This is what we use to blow off steam to cope with stress. And it helps when you're stressed.

And I didn't see anything wrong with it. So I just started doing it like all the time with all the other grad students and professors. Yeah. I've never been to grad school myself. But I can imagine, yeah, because in, you know, your first four years of college, in the U.S. anyway, you're underage here. It's 19. But in the U.S. 21, yeah, for that majority.

there of your schooling, you're going to be underage. So it's going to be less common. But I imagine when you get up to 22, you hit grad school. Yeah, then it's, everything's legal. So let's play ball, right? Yeah, exactly. And like when you go to grad school for science, you also get a stipend. So they, you get free tuition and they pay you. Not a lot. I was getting paid like 30,000, which is a very good stipend compared to most schools. I thought I was rich. Like I was a 22, year old kid. I was working at Dunkin' Donuts and tutoring in my college, not making very much money. And all of a sudden, I was making $30,000. So I'm like, yeah, I'll go out to the bar, like, and do all this stuff. It just seemed glamorous and fancy. Appearance was very important

that I seemed like I was fancy and part of the crew and impressive. So I thought I had to do it. Yeah. All right. I get you. I'm following you. I'm following it. So where do we go from here? It immediately started to become a problem. Right away. Yeah, basically right away.

I didn't have a good part of my drinking. Unfortunately for me, I had no understanding of how much was too much. So I just kept drinking. I thought, like, if I'm not drunk right now, I'm good to have another drink. So I would just keep drinking and drinking and drinking, and I would get way too drunk. I was getting sick. Anytime I got sick, I was always in public. So it was very embarrassing. I was getting sloppy. I was having fuzzy memories. Like right in the first few months of drinking, like right in the beginning. I met my husband a month into beginning drinking. Our relationship really

progressed quickly. We had like a strong bond instantly. And he was what inspired. Bired me to get better with the eating. And I thought, I'm probably going to marry this guy. We had started already talking about that like four months in. Oh, wow. And yeah, we moved really fast. I was imagining our life where I can't eat dinner with my husband. Like, I can't get lunch with my husband on the weekend because I don't eat lunch. And I didn't want that for myself. So I started therapy for the first time. And I just wanted to be healthy. I didn't think that I had to do these behaviors anymore. I was recognizing that they

were not helpful for me and I wanted to get better. So as I was doing therapy for the disordered eating, I started drinking and I didn't recognize what was going on, but drinking was better. And I didn't need to do the restriction and all the stuff anymore because drinking did everything better. that I was trying to do with eating. So I started getting better from that issue, which is a positive thing. And I still am good today with it. But I just swapped it. I just swapped one problem for a different problem.

Then that started the whole thing. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It seems like it picked up pretty quick for you with things, right? So you meet your husband in your husband now, but then, you know, when you guys first started four months, you're getting into things. Like, this is pretty serious. that you're going to do this and you never really had any good experiences drinking.

How long did you end up drinking for? I drank for seven years. Yeah, wow. And it was like that consistently all the way through. Yeah, and it actually kept getting worse. But I had hope that I would do good drinking someday, even though it was never good. It wasn't like it was good in the beginning and I was just trying to get back. It was never good.

but I just was really attached to this romantic idea of drinking. I thought I was drinking to blow off steam and unwind because it was fun. And I was classy and not a boring, lame person. But really, I was drinking to cope. I just couldn't identify it. I had no other skills to deal with my emotions. So I couldn't not drink. Yeah.

I hear you on that. When you look back, right, hindsight's usually 20-20. What were you working on coping on? What were you kind of avoiding to cope with with the alcohol? All of the anger from my childhood that I had never dealt with. All of the stress from grad school and then eventually work that I didn't know how to deal with. And mainly, I had negative amounts of self-worth and self-esteem. Like I just really did not like myself at all.

And drinking made that better, even though I didn't realize that's what I was doing in the moment. And then as I continued to drink, I hated myself even more because I couldn't control my drinking. And then I needed to drink more because I hated myself even more. And it was just a really awful cycle. But I think it was the self-esteem that was the main thing. As I alluded to earlier, I really attached my self-worth to career success and good grades. And my drinking got in the way of grad school that first year. And I had to drop out.

And that impacted me a lot because I was like, you are a loser. You are stupid. Everybody hates you. You're never going to succeed. and I had this vision that I had to get a PhD, like I had to. Otherwise, I sucked. And I still don't have a PhD. But it's been something that I've worked on over the past 10 years since I was in grad school.

And I decided to start teaching. But I was never proud of being a teacher, even though it's a great career. I never felt proud of it, which then also impacted my self-esteem because my husband was still getting his PhD and killing it and now I'm not included anymore and everybody going out. So it was really tough. Teaching is just so stressful. So I started drinking every day to deal with that stress. So there were a lot of things going on that really reinforced it.

And then I got stuck in it and I couldn't stop drinking. Like I couldn't skip a day. I would say, I'm not going to drink today or I'm only going to drink Thursday through Sunday or I'm only going to have 30 drinks a week. I would make all these rules and I would never, ever, ever stick to them. So then I hated myself even more for that. Yeah.

That's that cycle we get caught in. You obviously have an idea of this now, but you're basing a lot of your self-worth through these times and years on external things, which just don't hold up over time. It just doesn't hold any water over time. In the moment it might. It's maybe a smaller scale perspective.

It's like buying something, right? Oh, I feel like crap, I want to go buy that new iPhone for, you know, $200,000 and then you feel good, right? I feel good for a bit. I'm like, oh, then this is great. I'm opening up the package. The next day, it doesn't do the trick anymore. It's just so short-lived, right, when we constantly try to find the external stuff. I'm wondering your husband's take on this, right, because he's going further with this.

I mean, did he have any conversations with you about this stuff? No. My husband grew up in a family that drank a lot. He thought that it was normal. All the adults that he ever saw drink a lot. And they drink daily. And then when they partied, they really drink a lot. And nothing bad about them.

That's just the culture where they live. And anyone that's struggling with alcohol, that culture makes it even harder to stop. But he thought what I was doing was completely normal behavior. And he was drinking and partying with me. He just didn't ever develop a problem with it. So him not thinking I was doing anything wrong also added to it because I never really had that checkpoint. Like I would have a couple moments where I would realize like this isn't normal.

You drink differently from other people. But I was really shielded from them because of him thinking it was okay and the people that I was choosing to hang out with. Yeah. It puts you in a confusing spot, right? confusing spot if people aren't bringing it up as a red flag maybe that idea that yeah you can kind of keep rolling with it and keep going yeah no one ever brought it up and when I was sober curious and thinking about not drinking or taking breaks people would discourage me and they would say like you don't have a problem what are you talking about and a lot of this was again because of the

successes that it looked like I had on the outside because I did eventually go back to graduate school and I got my master's and I kicked butt in that program even though I was drinking every single day and I got a career in the sciences that people thought was cool and I had my life together and nobody thought anything was wrong even though they witnessed a lot of like crazy drunken nights with me they didn't realize I was doing that every day like you might hang out with me to party like that, but I live my life this way. So people just would encourage me to moderate or just have one or you don't need to do this forever.

What are you talking about? And that made it very hard too. That's a tough spot to be because you were probably dying on the inside. Yes, I was really, really miserable. I hated my life. I hated myself. I felt really bad about myself, even though people thought that I had all these successes. I thought I was a failure, and I let myself down every single day because I said that I would either not drink or moderate, and then I didn't.

I would still just drink my butt off every night. And I couldn't stand myself by the last few years of my drinking. Yeah, no, I hear you on that. That's tough. So how long would you say you were, I mean, this is the new buzzword, right, that's everywhere. So precarious. Yeah. How long would you say before you actually.

quit that you were thinking about it or moving into that direction? So I started being moderation curious two years into my drinking. So I drank for a total of seven. I was trying to moderate for five years. I did not want to be sober. I had no interest in it. I just wanted to be able to stop once I started. That was the goal. And I was very dedicated to that. And then as the consequences started building and my suffering started increasing, then I became sober curious, probably two years before I quit. So three years of trying to moderate. And then I started thinking like, I should have a mock tail instead of drink. Or maybe I should like take a week off, reset my tolerance.

But it wasn't because I actually was interested in sobriety. I never wanted to stop. I just wanted to drink less. So I don't know if that's exactly super curious. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't have the definition in front of me.

No, I mean, it's just curious about maybe things could change in a sense, right? Because I think that's a lot of our stories is that the assumption from the outside is that bang, boom, everything just happened and then we just get sober one day from zero to 100. And what you hear so often is that there was seeds planted for many times years before. for a lot of us. And that's why I'm always encouraging people that if you don't really know what you want, like start consuming stuff that's like about sobriety. Maybe you'll pick up things here or there and you can get some seeds planted and head in that direction.

You don't have to necessarily do it today. It would be great if people did. They're like, yeah, Bradley, I'm getting sober today. That's it. That's all. I'm not that naive. I've been around it long enough to know that it just doesn't pan out that way for a lot of people. So thanks for sharing that too for that insight about that kind of going back and forth.

But that moderation part, it's a tough spot to be, right? I think we all go through it, whether we're aware of it or not. I think we all go through it, right? We want a less than the consequences, less than the blow. The hangover start to get worse. You're waking up in the middle of the night, sweating, wondering what the heck went on. You don't want to go through all that stuff. So it's like, well, let's just try to cut back.

And then when you can't do that, you repeat the cycle. You know, I can't do anything right. Exactly. You know, you just feel worse about yourself. And that just becomes a tough spot. Let's get to when you got sober and what the heck things look like now, what that was like. So walk us through that day, that night before. What the heck was going on?

Yeah. So what inspired it was I was really suicidal from the self-hatred. I was forcing myself to stay awake at night. Like I would get drunk. I would jolt awake at 3 o'clock in the morning. And then I would make myself stay awake. wake until the sun came up thinking about what a freaking loser I was and a bad person. And that was like killing me. I could not stand myself. I would look in the mirror in the mornings after waking

up after probably like four hours total of sleep. And I would just think like I hate you. I hate you. I hate you like over and over and over and over. I could not stand myself. And then I would drink that night. And the suicidal thoughts started getting so bad that I realized you could do something about this someday. You could get drunk and do something about this. And that inspired me to first take a break. I took a 90-day break to cure myself. I wasn't cured, actually, even though I did the 90 days. And then I saw all the suicidal thoughts came back. And then that was what. what helped me realize, like, this is just how you drink. And it was the fear that I would do something to myself. And even though I hated myself so much, I knew I didn't actually, like, not want to be

around anymore. So I took a chance on it, and I just said, I'm never going to drink ever again. And I accepted it. And once I said that, I said it to my husband, actually, because he was always really supporting me during those nights. I felt so at peace. I was scared, obviously, and sad, and I didn't want people to judge me. But I just felt like this is finally over, and maybe I don't have to feel this way anymore. Yeah, wow. And when was that?

Two weeks from now is actually going to be four years. So November 9th, 2019. Wow. Great job. Yeah. Thank you. That's sort of the process that starts after is we make the decision. Now, how are we going to keep it going?

Yep. How did you? How have you? In the beginning, I didn't do anything because I didn't think I needed to do anything. I thought I stopped drinking. I already did it. Like, I'm good. But then I got really angry and I had all these feelings that I didn't know what they were or how to deal with.

And then the world shut down. and we all had to stay home and not go to work. And I worked in a lab. So I really couldn't work. And I had a lot of free time. So I started going to therapy. And that has been my main thing. I started going to therapy to understand like, why do I actually feel this way and how can I deal with it without going to external things?

And I wanted to know like why me? Why did this have to happen to me? Why didn't this happen to my husband, even though he was partying too? Am I a weak world loser with no self-control? So I just started reading about it every day. And I started doing that on day two of my sobriety, because I just wanted to know the answer. Like, why can't I control my drinking? Why can't I stop when other people can?

And that helped me so much. And it just helped me accept that it's not a me problem. like I'm not actually a loser. And educating myself, therapy, and just more sober time, rebuilt my self-esteem over years. And I think those are my three main things. And then eventually I made sober friends like you that I can talk to and you guys get me and knowing that when you're triggered or something

or you're feeling really bad, that you have a friend or multiple people, that you can go to that will understand why that upset you and why you're feeling like you want to drink or something, that was also really special. Yeah, I love that. I've been right in to figure out why. I'm so curious about you pitch that question, right? You're going to therapy, like, why me?

Because I think that's going to be a question. I mean, what did you uncover with that question? There's a lot to it. I think the things that had the biggest impact on me feeling better about it, is that alcohol feels differently for some people. Some people, it feels like the best thing in the whole world, which was my experience when I started drinking,

when I was like, wow, I get it. Not everybody has that experience on their first drink. Some people have a drink and they're like, okay, this is fine. And understanding how when you drink heavily for years, it actually changes your brain. And it makes it harder to stop once you start. and it makes it harder for your brain to communicate with yourself. And I learned about how it changes our reward system

and how it becomes a solution when we don't know what else to do. And I learned about all the risk factors, and I saw that I actually had a lot of them. And I learned about protective or resilience factors, that even if someone drinks a lot, resilience factors can prevent them from developing a problem. and I didn't have any of those. So I think understanding all of the different components

was key for me letting go of all the shame. Yeah, wow, you bring up shame too. That's a powerful one, right? That's where we get stuck. I think a lot of us get stuck there, right? We go through that thought process of why me, how does it happen to me? We see other people around us too.

And they might be consuming around the same amount, I think, but they just don't feel necessarily the way we feel and interact with stuff too. but yeah, that's all so important. I mean, after a while, for me, it became the baseline, right, with substances. So, I mean, without it, it was dang near impossible to feel joy. I would always wonder that, you know, Chris, this morning, I'm right into the thick of it. You know, everybody's smiling ear to ear and like, I just have to pretend.

Like, I couldn't even get to that place. And that was like a big red flag for me to look a little bit deeper into what the heck was going on. But, I mean, the changes in the brain had taken place. And I'm alcohol and I was doing pills and heroin and cocaine. I mean, I was just flooding the dopamine system 24-7. And when I didn't have this stuff, nothing was firing. I mean, nothing was going on. I had Adderall and stuff when ADHD and everything went out.

And looking back, you know, I never thought of anything about it. I never heard anybody talk about it, but connecting the dots looking back. Like, I mean, everybody won what was best for me. Nobody was trying to, you know, do anything that was. That was pretty out of control. And it was definitely a helpful intervention. But it's another thing that definitely changes up the brain. in a sense, right?

So it's like, man, I look back and I'm just like, man, is there a way I could have avoided this? I'm thinking I could probably hit one of these massive lotos down there in the U.S. before I could have avoided this thing to addiction because when I got started, it just checked all the boxes and the consequences. For me, anyway, they didn't start flowing in right away. It took some time. It was more of a slow burn, maybe a year before I started.

But then once they started, I was taking so many risks in life that I look back. And then you have the shame attached to that. Like, why did I let that happen? And why did I do that? Yep. How do I end up here? You know, it's like, man, the snowball, it gets so big, right? Yeah.

And when you get used to these big artificial highs, nothing normal, no natural reward is going to give you that same feeling. So it makes everything else in life feel like, why even bother? Like, now I can feel grateful for the trees and the fall foliage. And when I was drinking, like, that stuff was dumb. People who like trees were losers. And now I get it, but my brain has recalibrated. No, yeah, that's so true.

You don't notice the beautiful everyday things. Yeah. And then when you get off the stuff, yeah, you're able to recognize that stuff. It's more of that ups and downs, like, just become more level. You know, obviously there's going to be highs and lows, but it's not those massive. For me, it was like way up. And then, I mean, what goes up must come down idea, right? Then you just crash way down below.

We got a couple more minutes here. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would, like to share about? Ooh, that's a good question. I feel like my anger journey and my self-worth, I feel like that was probably a main contributor to why I liked drinking so much. And it can be really hard to like yourself after all of the years of treating yourself like crap, thinking you're a loser, doing things you're not proud of.

and I just want to encourage anybody who hates themselves and is hearing stuff about self-love to just focus on self-like. For me, it took six months of sobriety before I realized that I actually liked myself, not even self-love or feeling anything good about myself, but I just looked in the mirror one day and I was just walking by and I thought,

oh, you're looking good. And then I stopped and I was, I was like, oh my God, a compliment? What? You didn't think about how, like, you look so bad and unattractive or avoid the mirror entirely. And it took me a really long time to build that self-esteem. But proving to myself every day that I could keep the promise of not drinking was key in that. Yeah.

Wow, that's powerful. Yeah, six months, I mean, I've hard work and not drinking. But not drinking is definitely seems like it's the main factor. of the main factors of doing it, right? To end that cycle. I mean, because that's the important part is in that cycle. It made me think there, too, about this other thought, this thing I talk about here and there is it's really not about the drinking. You know, once we kind of peel back the layers of the onion, we realize that there's a lot more to the story. Because when I was wanting to give up stuff, I'd say, what's because of this, because of that, you know, you're just kind of on that surface level.

And once you're able to get those other things and then you're able to really build a solid foundation that you can work with. And now coming up on four years, I mean, wow. Did you ever think you'd get this figured out? I don't know where you land with things, but did you ever think you'd get sober and be living a life that you're happy with? No. I fought sobriety as hard as I could.

I did not want it. I thought that it was bad and sad and that I would be accepting defeat and all of this stuff. I had no positive opinions about it. all. And once I finally did it, I realized, like, this is the best thing ever. I was really holding on to the hope that I could figure out my drinking. And I'm glad that I couldn't figure it out. And I'm glad that things accelerated so fast so that I could quit when I did. And now I have all of this awesome time to just be happy and sober and grateful, which sounds so cheesy, but I mean Yeah, I mean, I don't personally think it's cheesy, but I think about the flip side of things, right?

Like, think about the way things were. So, I mean, it's such a freeing place to be compared to the way things were. What would you say if someone's listening to the show here, there will be somebody listening to the show here, and they want so badly for it to work out? I agree with what you said earlier to just start looking at sober stuff. read a book, listen to this podcast more, follow people on Instagram. I think that if you're continuing to try and it's not working, you need to try new things. I tried to do it on my own over and over and over and over and over and over and it never worked. And if that's where you are, add therapy, check out a meeting, join a community, get on Facebook.

There's so many cool options today. There's so many options for how to get sober. You can try all different kinds of things until you find the thing that's the right fit. And I also would discourage people from writing things off. I prejudged everything as like, this won't work for me, this isn't right for me, I don't like this thing. But I had never tried it. So if you try something and it sucks, like you don't have to keep doing it. it, but you should give it a chance and see. It might be the thing that gets you sober.

Yeah, my goodness. That's so incredible. And we're going to wrap up here. But my other thought there, too, is when I was younger, I hated tomatoes. Now I love tomatoes, salt and pepper, baked. Yes. I love it, right? And that I think we count ourselves out because of an experience we had with something a year ago. But our willingness and our approach to things change over time. And to try something again, we should give ourselves that shot and try again because we might see it differently, right? We might be able to look at things differently, just like when we try different food. I mean, I hated sushi and all that stuff. And now, I mean, it's beautiful, right? So that's incredible direction and advice and everything. Thank you so much. Tell us about your show. Tell us

a little bit about that before we officially, officially sign off. Yeah, so my podcast is called sober powered. So if you want to learn about all the stuff I'm learning about addiction and the brain and why this happens and check out my show. And if you search sober powered, you'll find me wherever. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Jill, for jumping on the show and sharing your story with us. Thank you. Oh, there it is. Another incredible episode right here on the sober motivation podcast. Look, if you enjoyed Jill coming on here and sharing her story, be sure to send her message. Check out her podcast over at Sober Powered. Type that into your search bar and you'll be able to find Jill.

Really appreciate it. I had a little message I wanted to share with everybody as we, today is Halloween as we go into our life and do our thing. I just want to let you guys know to keep this in mind. You never know what somebody's going through, what battle they're facing. what life is like for them, be it at home, if they're a co-worker, somebody who work with, or a friend, or you never really know that internal battle, not everybody talks about it, not everybody's ready to talk about it,

or willing to talk about it all the time. But keep that in mind with your interactions. I try to be mindful and kind when seeing people and meeting people and interacting with people because that's the truth. You never really know what someone's going through. Maybe carry that through to your day, your week. your month and maybe into the new year. But as always, look, I appreciate the support on the show.

It's incredible. Never expected it to be anything like it is in a million years, especially not after one. So keep on rocking, everybody. Let's get another day. And I'll see you on the next one.