Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Chris ”knuckles” Nilan struggled with addiction after retiring from the NHL. This is his story of making it to the NHL and sobriety.

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Chris knuckles Nilan won the Stanley cup with the Montreal Canadians in 1986 and was a tough hockey player with more than 3,000 career penalty minutes. After hockey, Chris began having some surgeries to make some repairs to his body and found himself addicted to the pain medication and when the supply dried up he began using heroin. During his NHL career, Chris also enjoyed alcohol as the boys worked hard and played hard. Chris has had several setbacks in his sober journey and on a December night, in 2015 he had a slip that almost cost him his life, This is Chris’s story on the sober motivation podcast. Follow Chris Nilan on Instagram Download Your SoberBuddy app Follow Sobermotivation on Instagram

Welcome back to season two of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. Chris Knuckles Nyland won the Stanley Cup with the Montreal Canadiens in 1986 and was a very tough hockey player with more than 3,000 career penalty minutes. After hockey, Chris began having some surgeries to make some repairs to a his body and found himself addicted to pain medication, and when the supply dried up, he

began using heroin. During his NHL career, Chris also enjoyed alcohol, as the boys worked hard and played hard. Chris has had several setbacks in a sober journey, and on a December night in 2015, he had a slip that almost cost him his life. And this is Chris's story on the Sober Motivation podcast. Community and connection are two of the most important things I feel when it comes to recovery. And this is exactly what we have brought to you with the new updates to the Sober Buddy app. You can plug right into the private communities, the public feed, and connect with other people on a more personal basis using the direct message feature.

One of my favorite things, though, is that we're hosting two groups a day inside the app with Zoom feature. You can check out my groups, which are three times per week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I hope to see you all on the app because the people that are there now are really enjoying it.

Getting help for addiction is never an easy thing to do. And picking the right place to get help makes it even more overwhelming. That's why I've decided to partner with the United Recovery Project. I've had a chance to get to know some of the incredible people

working at the United Recovery Project over the years. And that is why this partnership makes so much sense. The United Recovery Project has a top-notch treatment facility and program. I truly believe in Brian Elzate, who is the co-founder and CEO and has 14 years clean. The properties themselves are beautiful with tons of amenities and activities. But most importantly, it's the level of care they offer.

It's exactly what you would hope a family would receive and the staff who most of which are in recovery themselves truly care. It's really apparent that they do their absolute best to create customers. treatment plans to meet everyone's individual needs. If your loved one is struggling, reach out to them directly at 833-551-0077, or check them out on the web at URPRecovery.com. Now let's get to the show. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast.

Today we've got Chris Knuckles Nile with us, a former NHLer, and he has some incredible stuff that he's doing these days and he's going to share his story with us. Chris, how are you doing today? I'm good, Brad. Thanks for having me, pal. Appreciate it. Of course. Well, how we usually start the podcast is just start out with what life was like for you growing up. Well, you know, I grew up in the neighborhood in Boston, a couple of sisters and a brother, my mom and dad. And we grew up in the Irish neighborhood where a lot of friends, we used to hang around the street corner. We used to play sports together, street hockey, basketball, baseball, ice hockey, things. You know, it was a good environment to grow up in. And there was certainly some pitfalls

and potholes in that environment that you had to navigate your way through. Certainly, it was a great character-building environment. for me growing up gave, I guess it helped me to develop that streetwise city tough personality that you had to have to be able to navigate your way through those streets and different situations that arise growing up that kids have to deal with. You know, it's not easy growing up, not easy for any kid growing up. but certainly it helped me build my confidence in life, you know, later in life, build my confidence to be able to assess certain situations rather quickly and be able to respond or react to them appropriately.

You know, appropriately, I would say, for my own self, and others at times, but maybe sometimes against the norm of what society thinks one should do. So, yeah, it was a great time to grow up back in the 70s, 60s and 70s. Really fun time to grow up. Life seemed a little bit more simple back then. But, yeah, I had a great childhood. Good. I love that, love that.

So when did ice hockey start, like competitively? Well, it really didn't stop for me until, I don't know, about seven, eight years old. I first skated on a puddle up the street from my house. There was a parking lot that was not level. There was some dips in it. And my dad ended up taking us kids up there froze. early in the winter, one winter before it snowed, it had rained and left the big puddle there, and it got cold enough, it froze.

First time I ever skated was on a puddle and a parking lot in Boston. And then I'll never forget the day I skated. I absolutely loved it. I love falling down, getting up, just the feeling of being outdoors and bombing around. Having something other than shoes on my feet was rather weird. and odd for a young kid at the time. I didn't know. I never heard of skating, knew nothing about it.

Would see the Bruins play on TV, but that was about it. And that was the first time I skated. And then when Bobby Orr came to Boston or had a big impact on the city and the people, and when he came, like late 60s, early 70s, they wanted to give inner-city kids an opportunity to do, play in sports, give them another outlet.

So they ended up building rinks all around the city in the different neighborhoods. And one of those rinks was built at the end of the street that I lived on. I was fortunate for that. So I first started public skating, played street hockey a lot and stuff like that. And then I used to shoot pucks all the time in the schoolyard next to my house at Catholic Memorial. and I would go and skate public skating. Every day I'd be up there public skating. And then they eventually started a league, Charlie Doyle League,

then West Roxbury, the neighborhood I grew up in, started a local peewee team and started playing in that. Yeah, so pretty cool. I was about seven years old when it all started, you know, the hockey organized. Yeah, gotcha. I love that, the started out skating on a puddle. Who would have thought? Yeah.

Yeah, who would have, right? But that's where it all began on that puddle. I actually had a picture of that painted by my cousin, who's a pretty good artist, and she painted that picture, recreated it for me. And I gave it to my mom and dad for Christmas a couple years ago. My dad's not passed, but a year ago. And, yeah, it was kind of cool that that's something that stuck with me. I'll never, ever.

It's so in the forefront of my brain that day. I remember almost everything about it. And I was like four, probably four years old, five years old. Wow. Yeah, I love that too, the picture, the painting. That's pretty cool. So what about like high school and stuff when you started to get older? When did substances, alcohol, drugs get introduced to your life?

What did that look like for you? Alcohol got introduced really young. You know, I was around a lot. There were family parties. I remember family gatherings. It was always alcohol. My father liked to have a few drinks. My mother did.

I remember my uncle and aunt married. They lived behind us. And, you know, we used to have parties a lot. And they were always around. And it was always drinking around. And then, you know, hanging around my friend on the street corner drinking. You know, weekends would come. We all, like I said, we all played sports together.

We all partied together. We have fun. Marijuana was kind of big back then, and I started smoking marijuana. When I was in high school, but I didn't like it because me. I was really outgoing, talking of one of the boys, and it did nothing for it. All it did is make me paranoid. If anything, it put me into a rabbit hole, and I hated it. But I drank.

I certainly drank a lot. Young kid probably drank the first time around. I'd say 12 years old. I remember the first time I drank and I threw up. I was sick. Yeah, gotcha. And then how did your hockey career come about? Well, I really pursued hockey.

I played every chance I could. You know, I played House League, Charlie Doyle League. Then I went on. I tried out for the, freshman team at Catholic Memorial High School, and I made the team, but I didn't play. I sat in the bench all year. I was miserable. I almost quit hockey early. My dad, I remember the day, was like the last second last game of the year, and I, you know, I get one shift of the game. And the coach, John, Bad Eyes. That was his nickname, Bad Eyes, Glenn, given to him by his brother, who was a friend of mine

later in life, who was an attorney. They were both attorneys, but John, bad eyes, Glenn, coached the freshman team, and bad eyes sat me on the bench all the time. Listen, I wasn't the best player at that age, but I wasn't the worst, but for some reason he didn't like me. And I remember, it was around the second last game. We played at the Boston Arena. And the old Boston Arena, Northeastern University has it now.

I played there in college. It was awesome. It was like a mini Boston garden, great balcony, really cool. And I was coming out after the game, and I had my head down. I turned the corner. My father came around the corner, and the coach was there. My father slammed him with his shoulder. And he said, hey, how come my kid can't fucking play?

He sits on the fucking bench all game? Oh, yeah. He hasn't said a word, and all he does is sit in the fucking bench. Now, meanwhile, I was like, oh, shit. John Glenn. shit himself the coach. He didn't know what to say. Anyway, I just kept walking.

I got in the car, and I was kind of somber-looking soul. And my dad, he's saying, how are you doing? You're doing all right? I said, no, I actually fucking, I hate fucking hockey. I don't want to play hockey anymore if it's like this. I didn't fucking sit in the bench.

And, you know, he said, well, listen, here's the deal. You want to quit. You can go right ahead and quit, but I'm going to tell you one thing. you will, you quit. You will remember that the rest of your life. And you won't only remember it. It will fucking haunt you.

And those words stuck with me. And he said to me, now you can quit. And you'll see down the road, just what I said will happen. Or you can fucking get to work. And so anyway, I, you know, I just started doing everything.

I go to improve my shot, my skating. I skated, public skated every time I could, get on the ice every time I could. And my sophomore year, I played JV. And I got called up at one game, The Varsity, didn't get sent back now. And then I finally, my junior year, ended up making the varsity team. You know, I played those two years under Coach Bill Hanson, who had a great impact on my life. him and another guy, Judge King, another coach of mine, Judge Paul King.

But, you know, senior year when I was done, I was a young senior, I was 17 years old, most of my senior year, and then I turned 18. And I remember all these other kids are going off the college. My parents couldn't afford college, and certainly I didn't have the grades that would get you into college by scholarship. So I wasn't going anywhere. And I was, I remember worried, kind of worried about it. And I went to my coach's office one day.

He was also a guidance counselor. And meanwhile, I never went in there for guidance. But I did because now I'm in the foxhole. I got nowhere else to go. I said, I'm worried here. I don't know what I'm going to do senior year. I'm up against it here. Everybody's going off to college.

He said, well, Chris, honestly, you were a young senior. You ever here in prep school? And I said, no. And he said, well, listen, a lot of prep schools out there, he'd go and prep a year. And now we didn't have that kind of money. You know, I went home and told my dad, and it said we look into it.

And I end up going up to Northwood School visiting one of the schools I visited up in Lake Placid, New York. And I went and visited, and I ended up getting scholarship money to go there. I met with the headmaster who has loved guys from Boston. he was a former pro football player, great guy, Mr. Freedlander. And I met with Mr. Freedlander and, you know, certainly had written recommendations from Billy Hanson, my coach, Judge Paul King wrote for me. And I end up getting a scholarship dip.

And it ended up costing my father instead of $3,500, it only cost him $15. But $1,500 was big money back then. So my father made a possible for me to do. to go there. And I went and I had a great year there and I ended up getting a scholarship to Northeastern University after that year. With the help of Judge King, Fernie Flammon, coach at Northeastern at the time, the judge and Fernie were very good friends. So the judge had a lot of faith in me and confidence in me as a person and as a player. I end up getting that scholarship. Went to Northeastern and my second year at Northeastern I was drafted by the Canadians.

That really came about with Judge King, Judge Paul King, and he was my coach, great guy, but he was good friends with Dickie Moore and Doug Harvey, the Canadian's Hall of Famers. And Judge asked them to do a favor for him because he had done them a few favors in their lifetimes, gave him legal advice, certain things. And the Canadians ended up drafted me in the 17th round.

1978, 231st overall out of 235 players. And it was all because of the judge in his relationship with Dickey Moore. So Dickey Moore and Doug Harvey are basically the guys responsible for getting me drafted. So that's how my career in the NHL started. Wow. When did you realize or did you realize that it was possible for you to make an NHL team? Well, I guess when I, when I went to training camp a little bit intimidated, a lot of bit intimidated. I grew up hating the

Canadians. And then I ended up getting sent to Nova Scotia my first year, had a five-game tryout, $200 a game. And then my first game in Maine, when I finally got to play, I ended up fighting a guy named Glenn Cochran. I cut them open pretty good. And they offered me a contract the next day. and those 49 games in the American League, I had 15 goals and 10 assists in 49 games, and I had 3 and 4 minutes of penalties. So I knew I could handle myself. Every guy in the league, after I fought Cochran,

and I wasn't going in, like, thinking, oh, I'm going to be a fighter. I was going in, I'm not going to take any shit from anybody. But once I fought Cochran and that happened, then word got around fast. Some fucking college kid did this. And next thing, I was fighting everybody. And then I got called up.

First game was in Atlanta. It was, I think, February 1980. And I froze. You know, I only played like a couple shifts up here, but I was just like, it's like I forgot everything I learned in the American League. And then the next game was in Philly. I ended up having a fight, getting an assist on the winning goal. And then things started falling in place. And yeah, so yeah, I guess you could say after that Philadelphia game, I was convinced I could play at this level and make a difference.

But certainly I did not become a full-time NHL player right away. It took me some time. And they were patient with me, the Canadians. They forwarded me a lot of opportunity and great coaching to really help me with my skating, the fundamentals of the game, which needed some fine-tuning. still do. But yeah, it was just the best organization in the world to be able to do what I did as a player. I had all the help in the world. So it was awesome. Yeah, that's incredible. For the non-hockey fans out there, how would you describe your role as a hockey player? Listen, I know people call guys that fight goons, which I hate the word goon. I can see where it comes

from guys who sit on the bench and never play. But those guys, they made it to the highest level because a part of the game that was truly a big part of the game back in that day. So for those guys who did that job all those years, I have nothing but respect for them. And probably more respect for guys who didn't play a lot and fought because that's a real difficult thing to do. And I would have had a hard time to do that to, you know, get out there,

fight, sit on the bench, never play. I was having a hard time in my freshman year in high school. Certainly wasn't going to be any different for me just because I was getting paid to play hockey now. So, yeah, I ended up, you know, in my role, I was a really tough hockey player who could play the game, more defensive-minded, but I could also chip in on the offense. And I, you know, stick up for my teammates at every turn. It didn't matter who, what, when, or where.

So, yeah, I looked at myself as a good, solid, tough hockey player. Yeah, a mixed bag. I did read somewhere that you did have a, you had an element of a snipe to you. You had a good shot. No, I could play. I could score a goal. I did, you know, if I focused maybe a little more on that, like Jacques LeMay, my coach wants to him, not scoring goal so much, but.

being a little more aware of that part of the game and being less aware of that other part, the hitting guys, the fighting, I probably could have done more that way, but I'm happy with the results of what I did that way. Yeah, because scoring a goal in the NHL, there's nothing like scoring a goal. Everybody used to out, hey, how does it feel winning a fight scoring a goal? And I think, scoring a goal every day, all day, all year. all time. There's nothing like scoring a goal in the NHL

and helping your team that way. Yeah, I had a patented move to my backhand. I love going on my backhand. It's not my practice a lot. And a lot of goaltenders didn't think I was going to make that move. They all thought like, oh, he's a dummy. He's not the best way. He's just going to shoot the puck.

And I end up scoring a penalty shot at the forum in Montreal. all, everybody was surprised I got one, first of all. And two, the goaltender thought I was going to come down and bury my head and just shoot at him, hit him in the pads. And I didn't. I came down. I faked this shot. And I went around, I threw it in on the backhand.

And he got traded to us like a week later. And I said, what were you thinking? And he said, you know what I was thinking, Brian Haywood? He said, this dummy is going to come down, drop his head and pound it right in my pads. So I said, who's the dummy now? And it was just funny because, again, I had an advantage that way because guys never thought I was going to deek. They figured, oh, he's just going to shoot. So that helped me.

And that was my patent move, my only move. Yeah. Can peanut butter. Until they figure it out, right? After a few times, then the goalies might get on to it. But that's cool. I love that. So you're going through your NHL career.

long was your was your was your nchel career i played 13 yet wow won a stanley cup in 1986 was just awesome uh great to be part of a team that you know has a goal in mind as a group and you attain that goal and you achieve that goal um it's a great feeling and my most treasured moment in the game winning the stanley cup there's no question about it yeah what's that like win the Stanley Cup. Like I said, with a group of guys trying to strive and get there. To win that trophy is just, I don't think people talk about it, but unless you do it, you don't really understand how difficult it is and how difficult it can be. So when you do win it, it's just, you're so ecstatic, you're so happy, you're so relieved

because you finally achieved that goal. In hockey, for me, there's no better feeling. Yeah. So an amazing career. When did, when did addiction sort of creep back up on you? Well, you know, I didn't use drugs during my career. I drank a lot, which, I mean, alcohol you can say is a drug. But I drank a lot. And certainly, the environment in the NHL was conducive to that at the time, you know, work hard, play hard. I kind of grew up in that environment, too. But the one time I took drugs, when I played, I broke my arm in Montreal, I was playing for the ranges. And they couldn't put a cast on it because I was flying home, and I had a compound fracture. So they gave me perkinset.

You know, it helped with the pain, but I ended up getting sick. I threw up. And then when my career ended, and when I say I didn't do drugs during my career, during the season, I never, I just drank. A couple times in the off season, I did cocaine, which, you know, I'm not proud of, but I did. it wasn't a drug I liked. I basically did it at times because I'd be out late drinking and it kept me up. I could drink more. But and when I say that only a few times, and it was when I went back to Boston in the summer.

So I'm certainly not proud of that. But I never used drugs during the NHL season, never. And then when I retired and I started having surgery after surgery after surgery, and I got going on the pain killers and I end up getting addicted. I just, I didn't know how to get out of it. I didn't know what was happening to me when I started to, when I ran out of pills, I didn't know what was going on in my body, but I know one thing. I felt like I was going to die because I didn't have those pills.

And then I realized quite quickly that once I had the pills in my system, I felt okay. I wasn't sick anymore. I didn't have the joint pain. I wasn't miserable. I wasn't. So, yeah, I knew nothing about addiction, to be honest with you. You know, I had the kid I heard got, you know, certain kids' neighborhood.

The father was in AA and stuff like that. But, you know, I didn't even know what AA was. I just knew guys went there to drink and went there because they drank. And I didn't even know if they stopped drinking or they still drank. And they went to AA. It was a club or something to drink. And I have no idea. at the time and I didn't care at the time.

Yeah, the surgeries one after another, then like I said, I became addicted. And how did that look for you? Like what, so you have- I look bad, you know, quickly, you know, I had married three kids, just, you know, not paying attention where I should be paying attention because I was so worried about where I'm going to get my next pill or how I'm going to stay well. And, you know, that's a full-time job trying to do that. whether you get them from a doctor or you get them off the street and it certainly took its toll on me

in my life. And it did not end well. I ended up divorced in treatment a couple times. It was difficult. Yeah. So how did you get into sobriety? Well, I had a friend, a guy I played with who kind of made. made a recommendation of calling this guy from the NHL who works with retired players is how he put it to me.

And I called them and we end up meeting. But little did I know this guy was an interventionist for the NHL and a drug counselor. He ended up sending me to a therapist to talk to that woman, which I agreed to do. And the second day I went to see her, I was like in a ball on the floor. you know, in tears and just a mess realizing where I got my life. She really got me to take a look at myself, which was just the beginning. I mean, she just peeled a little bit of the onion back. It has since gotten peeled way back.

Alea wrapped a layer after layer after layer. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of stuff goes on when we're wrapped up in the addiction part of things. What is your sober date, your celebration day? My sober date? Yes. My sober date is. Now, I first went to treatment in 2000.

I stayed sober a little bit. Close to three years. I went back out, started drinking, ended up back on the pills. I went back into treatment in 2009. I get out, stay good for about a year, then started drinking again. 2011, I got sober once again. Yeah, 2010, late 2010, early 2011. And life was good, got back on track, started working again.

I moved back to Montreal. I had a radio show here. Things were going good. In 2015, my mother had a stroke. She was suffering from dementia. I went back to Boston, and I slipped. One night, I slipped. and it almost cost me my life.

That was 2015, December 7th, 2015 at my new sobriety date. I just celebrated seven years. The longest stint I have had since 2000 when I was trying to get this thing. Wow, congratulations. Appreciate it. Yeah, that's incredible. What was it? Like, were you able to put a finger on what, like, brought you back those other times?

What brought me back to alcohol and drugs? Just, yeah, not doing what I'm supposed to be doing on a daily basis, which I'm doing today. I'm showing up, suiting up every day. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Yeah. And I got away from all those things. I didn't stay close to what I'm supposed to be doing. I thought I could do it on my own. and realize I couldn't. I'm not scared to ask for help today. I'm not scared to have my hand out to help someone else. And I certainly do the things that one has to do to stay sober on a daily basis.

And those things for me are what I got away from. I'm in the middle of the boat today. I'm not hanging on to the edge of it, on the outside of the boat, hanging on to the edge. I'm in the middle of the boat. And I'm staying there. Today I certainly, I am not going to sit here and tell you I'm a holy grail. But I'm someone who is a spiritual man who has belief, who has faith.

And I practice that in my own way. And, you know, I pray in the morning and I pray in the evening. And I try and live my life each day where I don't hurt anybody else. and I like to try every day to help somebody else in life one way or another and not get caught doing it. That's not as easy as it is said. I certainly try and help somebody else out every day, whether it's holding a door for someone, whether it's helping your neighbor and he doesn't know it bringing his trash can in, whether it's getting 60 Christmas bags and filling them up with toys to bring to the Shrinus Hospital here in Montreal, which I'm in the process of doing.

And I say that only because I'm going to get caught doing that because when I pull up to the hospital and I do that every year. And I love Christmas, my favorite holiday. I love kids. And Christmas is for kids. and I try and just bring a little chair and brighten some kids' day. And I do that every year with the help of my better half, Jamie Holtz, who just a wonderful woman and has certainly helped me in my life in more ways than I can even start to explain here. So, yeah, she's a big part of that with me.

And it's awesome. It's awesome to be able to do that stuff. Yeah, that's so true. That's a blessing about recovery sobriety is that we're able to give back. or we're available for that. Why is that part so important, though? Because I feel like that's huge too. Well, it's important for other people, right?

For the people you're helping, the people you're there for. It's so important for them to try and bring a little bit of joy into their life where a lot of people don't realize what other people go through in life. We often forget, you know, all the road rage. We don't know. Someone cut you off. Someone may be daydream. Well, that someone might be,

it's coming from the hospital where somebody ended up dying in their family or they have cancer. They just got to, so we don't know. And to be able to bring that little bit of joy to someone's life, to be able to maybe take a step back in situations before where you would normally maybe react to something instead to take a breath and take a step back, it's important for one's soul, I believe. Regardless of what other people think of you, and I know over the years that, listen, we all like to be thought of as being nice people or good people.

And some people will never convince, and it doesn't make a difference. Really, what makes a difference is when you put that hula hoop down around you and you stand in the middle of it, everything inside that hula hoop is my business. Everything outside is not my business. So if someone doesn't like me or has something bad, well, they don't like me. What can I do? I'm not going to go out of my way to try and make somebody like me or like what I do. I'm going to continue on and live my life and try and live it certainly the best of my abilities, but in line with some of the values that my higher power has.

I try and just, again, I try to get through each day without trying to hurt anybody, try and help other people instead. And I believe that nourishes one soul. Yeah, it helps me in big ways. It feels good, right? It feels good to help other people, bottom line. Yeah, for sure. I had another question for you.

If somebody's listening to this podcast and they're struggling to get or stay sober, what advice would you have from your own personal experience for them? Well, to get so, but I guess it would be, geez, people may not understand what sobriety is or how to go about it. But certainly, I think one of the things that stopped me was like I never wanted to ask somebody to help me. Can you help me? I didn't want to sound like this needy, feeble. But you know what? I was needy and I was feeble and I needed help.

But I always was someone who was there for my teammates, always willing to, you know, I never asked. And then certainly that stigma of there's something wrong with me. You know, what are people going to think if I have, they know I have a drug problem or a drinking problem to be able to get through those stigmas and be able to ask for help? There's no shame in asking for help or saying you have a problem. There isn't. So that. And for people trying to stay sober or maybe come back where they went back out is, yeah, you know, I heard it so many times. Don't drink.

Go to meetings. Ask for help. Don't drink. Go to meetings. Ask for help. No matter what. Don't drink. No matter what.

Pick up the phone. All those things. And when you get away from those things, like I, did. And I got away from that connection to my faith and my higher power. It cost me. Yeah, those are hard things to do, but we'll definitely help you out, get connected with people. Just ask for help. Let's switch over to what you're up to now. You got the Raw Knuckles podcast. I have the Raw Knuckles podcast. I was working on the radio here in Montreal on TSN for the last 10 years. friend of mine who I've known for probably the past 13, 14 years, who did the film The Last Gladiators.

He was a producer on that, was his idea. When he was looking for somebody to do that, I pitched in and helped him out back in that day. He was really looking for a main subject, and we talked and found me, and we forged a relationship and stayed in touch over the years. and he helped me get this podcast going, something I knew nothing about. Yeah, I love that. What is the basis of the podcast?

Well, hockey-oriented, you know, talking about guys in their careers, how they got, where they got, you know, what it's like, kind of find a little more about each guy because often we look at athletes and we see them and we think we know them. They step on the ice. We've never met them,

but they have a personality in the community and that community of fans, and we really don't know who that person is or where they came from. So a peek inside the life of one of those guys and what they do and how they go, where they go. Yeah, cool. I love that. Well, this has been incredible. Thank you for jumping on here and sharing your story.

Yeah, no problem. I wish you well with the podcast, and it was a pleasure joining it. Wow, another incredible episode of the Sober Motor. So grateful to have Chris Knuckles Nylen on with us. And if you're a hockey fan, don't sleep on his podcast interviewing some top stars and so many people involved in the hockey world. So thanks again, Chris. And thank you, the listener.

Be sure if you're enjoying the podcast to drop a review. And I will see you on the next episode.