Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - For 25+ years Joe was leaning on Alcohol and Drugs to fill a void on the inside.

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

In this episode, we meet Joe. Growing up, Joe had no shortage of traumatic experiences and never talked about the feelings or thoughts associated with these events. He found a level of acceptance through drinking alcohol and consuming drugs. Going through the motions in life, Joe found himself covering up his emotions with alcohol time and time again. Sobriety was not given much attention, and drinking alcohol just felt so normal. After many ups and downs, Joe had a 10-day break from alcohol and decided to keep it going. Today, Joe celebrates 9 months of sobriety and this is Joe’s story on the sober motivation podcast. -------------- Follow Joe on IG: https://www.instagram.com/mightyjoemt/ Follow Sober Motivation on IG: https://www.instagram.com/sobermotivation/ More info on SoberLink: www.soberlink.com/recover

Welcome to Season 3 of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, we meet Joe. Growing up, Joe had no shortage of traumatic experiences and never talked about the feelings or thoughts associated with these events.

He found a level of acceptance through drinking alcohol and consuming drugs. Going through the emotions in life, Joe found himself covering up his emotions with alcohol time and time again. Sobriety was not given much attention, and drinking alcohol just felt so normal. After many ups and downs, Joe had a 10-day break from alcohol and decided to keep it going. Today, Joe celebrates nine months of sobriety. And this is Joe's story on the sober motivation podcast. Getting sober is a lifestyle change, and sometimes a little technology can help. Imagine a breathalyzer that works like a habit tracker for sobriety.

Soberlink helps you replace bad habits with healthy ones. Weighing less than a pound than as compact as a sunglass case, sober link devices have built-in facial recognition, tampered detection, and advanced reporting, which is just another way of saying it'll keep you honest. On top of all that, results are sent instantly to loved ones to help you stay accountable. Go after your goals. visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device today. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast.

Today we've got Joe with us. Joe, how are you? Doing it, Brad. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. Yeah, of course. Thank you for jumping on and I'm being willing to share your story with the world here. Indeed.

So how we start every episode is the same question. What was it like for you growing up? I want to try to keep it as simple as possible, but unfortunately, I had a pretty complex upbringing, I would say. I was born in Bozeman, Montana in 1981. My mom and dad, we lived here only for maybe a few months after I was born. And we actually moved to Billings, Montana, which is just a couple hours east of Bozeman. And I proceeded to live there for a couple years with my mom and dad,

But they were very much in a relationship of essentially just fighting and drinking was essentially their relationship. They had actually broken up before they had me, but then my mom found out she was pregnant. So they got back together to try to make it work. And it was not a good situation for either one of them. That is how my dad describes their relationship, though, is essentially just drinking and fighting. And they broke up then probably like when I was around three, my mom left to go back to a Wolf Point, which is a reservation on the four-pack reservation. I'm actually a Chippewasoo as well from my mom's side. And I hadn't really spent any time on the reservation at that point.

But after my mom left, essentially they shared custody over me for basically the majority of my child. childhood. And at first, I would go up to the reservation for like holidays and whatnot and just spend just a bunch of like random time up there. And in between all this, though, like I was also moving around a lot as a child numerous times and places. We went to Omaha, Nebraska when I was like in second grade or no, actually, I'm sorry, kindergarten. And I was actually in four different kindergartens just due to all the moving around that was going on. And then when I had started school, I would go to the reservation during the summers to be with my mom. And so that was basically the schedule between my parents growing up,

school year with my dad, reservation with my mom, and talk about two totally different worlds, like that I was bouncing back and forth. I really was just left to my own devices when I would go visit my mom. I didn't really have any friends up there. I had some family, which was great, But honestly, the situation I had growing up there was definitely surrounded by alcohol and drugs. It was very much a party environment.

And I was left to actually babysit my younger sister most of the time while my mother and stepfather would go out and get drunk. And at that point, I was probably about less than 10 years old watching over my sister who's five or six. And my mom would just come home drunk constantly and just be fighting. with my stepdad. I just remember my childhood was full of a lot of like all around me, whether it was my dad and mom or my mom and stepdad or anything like that. And I was definitely just surrounded by substances growing up for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. It seems like two different dynamics there, right? Where you're living outside the reservation and then going back in the summertime to the reservations, right? You have to make new friends and new connections and things are maybe operating a little bit differently. One thing I always pick up on with stories about when the parents struggle with substance use of any sort is that the young people, the kids tend to have to grow up quickly. They have to, especially the thing where you're mentioning now you're watching your sister and stuff.

Like under different circumstances, something like that might make a little bit of sense. But with the priority of going out and drinking and getting drunk, it just maybe confuses the whole situation. Also, there was like a lot of chaos, right? Yeah. That's another thing you hear from that when that stuff is around, right? And what do you go back there if you can to those times? How did that affect you as far as like feelings and thoughts when you were growing up? Yeah, like you said, it was very chaotic.

And I just felt like being torn between two worlds. Like I almost just had two identities. Like when I was with my mom, I was with my mom and I was happy. But then when I was with my dad, I was happy being there. And it just literally, I think I made like a mental separation between the two almost. And in hindsight, I didn't really talk about anything to anybody. I just dealt with it by this is happening. And I just worked through it.

And I didn't realize, of course, until hindsight, just how I think conflicted I was between the back and forth and the lack of a foundation, basically growing up. And, yeah, it's just what my father said is I just didn't talk. about it. I just, I was pretty quiet. I was a good kid. I enjoyed school. But yeah, there was just this perk side, I guess, if you will, that honestly was, I would say coming from my mom's side. She was a very narcissistic woman who didn't care anything but herself and partying. That was her thing. Between 81 to 83, so when I was like one to two and a half, she would constantly just leave my father just to go out and party. Wouldn't stick around and help out with anything or help raise me. She didn't want to do any of those motherly things. She wanted to do what she wanted to do.

And I know even she had left me at the park for my dad to pick up all by myself, like in a crib or like a seat or whatever just because she wanted to go party. And she just, she didn't have that motherly instinct. I actually have an older brother as well that she had gave up for adoption when he was born. Then I also have my younger sister, as I mentioned before, but she failed us all, I would say. And in the summer of 92, 93, I was like 12 years old. And I was up there on the reservation, like usual, visiting her. And at that point, I was getting older. I was getting more of a foundation because we had moved back to Bozeman. And I was starting to get some friends, actually, like starting to make some connections. And it was hard to go up to,

Wolf Point to be there during the summer where I just felt alone. And I remember my father calling me and was like telling me on the phone, your mom is trying to get full custody of you. Like I will not be able to see you again. You're going to have to go to school up there if this happens. And I just didn't believe it. I didn't want to believe it. I just was, I didn't want to ever cause trouble. And I felt like if I actually maybe. stood up for what I wanted. It would just create more chaos. And I think I was just trying to avoid the chaos. And I just swept that on the rug, was just like, whatever. But I do remember my mom, like, asking me if I wanted to go to school up on the reservation. And deep down, of course, I didn't want to, but I didn't have the power in me to say no. And one day when I was up there on the res, my grandma from my father's side called me and asked me to come visit her, which I knew it was odd because my dad's side of the family and my mom's side of the family, we just didn't intermingle or mix when I was up there on the reservation. I was like I was with my mom's side of the family. That's it.

Stayed away from everybody else. But it was a red flag that she was calling me, but my mom was at work and my stepfather allowed me to go up to my grandma's house. So I went to my grandma's house and was surprised that my dad was actually there unexpectedly. And he's, we have to go now. We have to go now. We have to get off the reservation. If we don't leave now, your mom very well could have custody of you. Because just due to tribal laws and whatnot, tribal nations even, like, when my mom had custody of me at that time during for the visitation, it would have been very hard for my father to ever really have his rights to me again.

So he was told by his attorney that he had to give me off the reservation. And that moment is just a moment that like, you know, has forever stuck in my mind. like when I had to just make a choice, obviously. And I think that's what I had been avoiding for so long. But I just remember, like, holding on to, like, these couple banisters and just, like, crying and just not knowing what to do because I didn't want to leave at first. But then I knew I had to. I knew I was happier with my father.

And I knew I trusted him and what he was trying to do for me, unlike my mother. And we left the res. I left everything I had behind with my mom and we stayed in Billings for a week just in case like she was trying to find me. And that was almost essentially like the end of my relationship with that side of the family. And it was just a very hard end, abrupt end to our relationship. And a year later in 93, we had to go to court up on the reservation. And that had been the first time I had seen my mom. and she asked me if I wanted to stay with her during the summers.

And at that point, I had actually said maybe not the whole summer. Like, I want to be with my friends. I want to have a good time. Like in Bozeman, where I know people. And I didn't tell her ever that I didn't want to see her, but I did, I voiced my opinion for one of the first times and what I wanted. And she proceeded after that. She gave me up.

She gave up her parental rights to me after I said that and basically took it as I didn't want anything to do with her. So that was then the true end of our relationship moving forward. And that was, yeah, like 13, almost eighth grade. And just, yeah, that was a huge part of my childhood. And I didn't really process anything because after that it was just over this whole part of my life. This whole second identity almost was just gone. And I proceeded to just go about life in Bozeman.

Wow, dude, I'm just picturing that there 12 years old, too, about making. making a big dis-life at that point about which direction you're going to go with this. And then probably, I don't know if you would have had any idea, but maybe suspecting that things could eventually maybe play out the way they did, right? Because you're leaving and you know, but would probably upset your mom and her family and stuff. Wow, man, that's a lot of stuff to go through. Well, what were you feeling throughout this time? Looking back hindsight, we can see things a lot differently.

Did you realize the impact that this may have at the time, or was it just forward and onward? It was forward and onward. Yeah. It very much was, I just cut those ties off mentally for the most part and just focused on the present and what I had to do moving forward. And I had some contact here and there with my sister. It was brief communication here and there, my brother a little bit. So I had a sense of what was going on. But yeah, even though we were in the same state, it's like we were on opposite ends of the world.

And I just proceeded to go about my life and going to high school here. That's like when I was like 14, 15. That's when I just discovered alcohol and weed and all of that. And it just was such a sense of comfort and relief that I had never experienced before. And I just, it was really easy for me to get into it from there. And that's how I dealt with things, I guess, by not really dealing with them, just going into oblivion and just not really processing anything that happened or that I didn't have contact with them anymore.

And it started off slow, I would say, like the drinking and drugs and whatnot. But it ramped up pretty quick, especially after high school. I definitely started drugging like pretty hard in my. my early 20s and came across like meth and meth was something I was into for quite a while but then also diving into coke mushrooms acid it was like anything that was put in front of me I would do I would not have a problem it just it it was fun it let me escape the reality that I was surrounded by yeah so it started out for you with drinking and probably smoke and weed and stuff in high school right yeah what it's interesting right because looking back we can we see this picture

big picture of what we were avoiding, how we were self-medicating, how we were addicted and everything going on. What were your thoughts as you're going through this? Were you able to connect the dots that, hey, I'm using meth to avoid feeling X, Y, and Z? Or was it because I know for me at the beginning, it was just fun.

Was this like, this was fun? I knew I was, my thoughts were changing in the way I felt was changing when I used drugs and alcohol. But I don't think early, on. I connected the dots as like trauma or emotional pain or anything. What was your experience with that? I would totally agree with you. It was just fun. I did not think I had been through like a traumatic childhood. I just thought it was normal. It was normalized. Like there was no talk about it

again or anything. And so I just, I was just having fun though. But I do know now, of course, like in hindsight, like it was just covering up a lot. And that's it. But it was easy because, yeah, Bozeman, a lot of places, it has a large, very big, like, drinking culture. It's a college town and it was easy to have access. Like, I had a fake ID before I was 21 and going to the bars. I actually got my first DUI was when I was 20. I was down and I was going down a bad path, like for sure. But then I knew, no matter how deep I got into the drugs. I just, I was also able to separate myself somehow. And, And I knew it was a path I didn't want to go down because I also knew at that point that it had taken over my brother's life.

And even though we hadn't been in much context, I did know he had been in and out of prison for quite a while. And I was surrounded by people who I realized I did not want to be like them. I knew if I kept doing it and what I was doing, I was going to end up just like them. And it was a scary situation. And so I was able to just cut myself off from this group of people. And that's essentially how I got out of that phase of my life of at least like the meth and whatnot, which I didn't think of anything of it at the time, but I realized now in hindsight, like what a victory that was. Because that is very much a very addicting drug.

Nothing like fentanyl, I'm guessing. And I'm so grateful fentanyl wasn't around when I was growing up because I don't know. I can't imagine I would be here today if that was a drug that was around. then it's scary for sure yeah no for sure 110% it is yeah getting off meth too a lot of people struggle with getting off meth it's a berry it does so much damage as well it's to give you a run for your money for sure there's a lot of people I've known over the years yeah it just keeps you coming back it's a tough one so for you to be able to have that what do you call it look into the future a little bit there and just see that road you're headed on that it's not good and to be able to shut that

down and move on from that group of friends and stuff. What else is going on in your life outside of using drugs and drinking and partying? Are you working? Are you going to school? Yeah, during 18 and 25 or so, I was just working. I was working to survive. I was in the restaurant industry, which I loved, but that also gave me access to a lot of alcohol. I was, it was everywhere. And I would be getting served drinks on shift all the time. Like it just, again, in hindsight, it was not a good environment for me to be in just because it was so easy to just constantly be drinking and accepted. It just was an accepted part of working in that industry.

So that's like what I did. I would say for a solid five years at least was just working party and just getting by. Yeah, without a doubt. I'm with you too, man. I'm with you too. That's when I really got introduced to a lot of stuff like COVID. cocaine because I was working in the kitchen and you'd have the older guys, right? Older people.

And then they would already be long gone into this stuff and then introduce you and get you. That's how I got introduced. But yeah, anybody who worked in restaurants, I guess everybody who's been on the show is struggling with addiction. So I wouldn't expect any different story. But yeah, a lot of people share that story of working in restaurants, right? Because it's a lifestyle.

Like you work four to midnight or four to one. And then everybody, there's no really where else to go. So everybody who gets off the shift, you guys go and you might party somewhere or go back and party at someone's place because everybody else is winding down. So we would go back to my place or another buddy's place. We would just kick it till three, four, five in the morning, sometimes all morning, like till six till the sun came up. Definitely.

And that's because we didn't have to get up the next day until four o'clock, five o'clock or six o'clock start. And then, man, I'm thinking it has brought me back to that job. We did that stuff too, man, for years, day in and day out at clockwork. Yeah, we did it. It's easy to fall into. That's what it was for you too. Same idea. Oh, without a doubt. Like for so long and just, yeah, I would get through work. But after work, it was open to a good time. And if anything, I would be hung over, but then just hair of the dog. And it was just a perpetual cycle of like you said, Groundhog Day is a perfect way to put it.

It's unfortunate because there's not much I can remember now. It's all very fuzzy. There's moments here and there that stand. out, but it's sad when you just can't remember like a good part of your life. Even if it was a good time, I feel like it was a lot of wasted time. Yeah. Was there any reflection during that time to yourself, any inner dialogue or anything of, man, I've got to get things straightened out here. I'm not headed to where I'm, I want to be. I think that inner dialogue was always there, always, but it would be drowned out. I would drink it away for the most part. But I think that voice was always there. And so I even remember like just recently I came across like a journal that

I had kept in my early 20s. And it was very eye-opening because even then I was writing about how I knew I had a problem with alcohol. And I did. I knew it, but I just didn't want to accept it or fully look at it. And I just was in it for the good time. It was a way for me to fit in. And I know I've heard that a lot too on your podcast. It was a way for me to fit in with anybody and everybody. And I think that's what I was craving and needed more than anything is like a place that I felt like I belonged. And that's what drugs and alcohol brought for me. Even if it was superficial, I was here with these people having a good time and I felt like I was accepted. And I think that's something I was just craving because I was struggling a lot with my own self-worth. And I knew I had a lot of

mental health issues in terms of depression and anxiety that I didn't want to deal with. And that's also obviously what the drugs and alcohol were able to to numb out. But in the end, just perpetuated because going back to that fitting in, like I knew since like fourth grade, I would say, as long as I can remember, I knew that I was different. And I knew, yes, I had been through some, terrible experiences, but I also knew I wasn't the typical, I guess what you would say, like social norm in terms of being straight. Like I am a gay man who really struggled with that part of my identity. And I had not talked about it with anybody. I, during all my high school years, it just really wasn't acceptable. I would say I came out when I was like 21 to to some

Franzink started that that journey of acceptance. But at the same time, I just was still struggling with accepting that part of my identity. And I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. So I just partied with everybody and I was like everybody else. And I feel like that was the majority of my life was just trying to fit in. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, Joe. Thank you.

I really appreciate it. Because that, that paints even maybe a little bit more of a picture for us. about what looking back what we're trying to avoid really puts maybe some thoughts to those feelings about what's bringing them up. And it's a whirlwind of stuff, right? You don't fit in. And I was the same way, man. I never fit in.

And then I knew the consequences involved with drugs and alcohol, but it didn't matter. I didn't care because the desire to fit in and be part. I think that's human nature. I think that's what we thrive for we want and we need most is to fit in and belong somewhere and have a community, whether it be one person or 20 people. And I was okay with the consequences being what they were in my life as long as I had a couple people that cared. And yeah, maybe the relationships were built on sand and they weren't the most productive

and incredible things. But when I was in it, I felt like they were the real deal. I felt connected and belonging. And I think that's what we get stuck in, right? Especially when we just feel rejected over and over again. again. And the substances just bring us together. It doesn't matter. People, you want to drink, you want to do meth. Nobody wants to know your entire life story. It's let's just get to it. And it was great. It was really good. And I had a hard time creating genuine relationships with

people because those people intimidated me because they wanted to hear about me. And I'm like, there's nothing exciting about me to really share with you to connect on that level. Or I just didn't know it. I didn't know how to articulate that. I didn't, I had the no self-esteem and the confidence, not really any confidence. So I was just drawn to the other stuff. I'm with you on some of that stuff too. Yeah. So you come out. You taught with your friends around 21. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What was that like? Scary. It was intimidating for sure. I don't know. It's, I think coming out is such a crucial part for individuals to do, their journey just because it is part of that self-acceptance that is needed and to help like

you said like confidence like hopefully build up confidence and whatnot but there's still just a lot of struggles after that i did feel like a huge weight off my shoulders without a doubt i knew i couldn't just hide that part of my life i didn't want that still moving forward though it was still like a part i just had troubles accepting about myself because i had no community there's not really any gay community in Bozeman at that time. I didn't know who to reach out to. I didn't talk to anybody about it. It was just like coming out and then that was it. And for the most part, it was fine. Everybody was accepting of it. But there was just nobody who I feel like understood me. I just have always felt like an outsider on the fringe and people have come to accept me,

but still just feel like that I'm just trying to fit in. Not that I belong anywhere. And I think that's really been. Probably one of my biggest struggles is just that self-acceptance and getting that confidence. And it's definitely gotten a lot better now that I'm now that I'm sober. But I drank and used drugs for well over 25 years. That's a huge part of my life. And there was a lot of Evan Flows, of course. I did start my undergrad. I went to undergrad school here at MSU when I was 25 because I knew, again, Like there was just this part of me that wanted to be better and do something. And I went to school for film. And I think film was something I was very passionate about because it was something like that was a great escape for me growing up.

I watched a lot of movies. That was like the one thing I could do when I would visit my mom and be on the res. Like I could watch movies and just totally escape. So I fell in love with the idea of pursuing that career. and school was great for me. It actually helped me get a routine. I was starting to feel just more confident, smarter. I actually was like ready to tackle the world.

I had quit drinking for a little while there because I knew at one point again that I was struggling with it. And there was a time where we had a party at my house and it just got out of control. And it was, I was a pretty personal or a pretty personal. are a pretty personal drunk, I guess. I get along with almost everybody. Like, I don't like to create fights or anything. I don't fight fighting.

I think I try to avoid it. But there was those times where you could just see like the anger. And I think there was just a lot of resentment and anger that was like boiling deep within me that would come out every once in a while. And there was a party that had gone to that was at my house. And it ended very badly in terms of just a lot of things were broken. I was like punching the wall and stuff like almost broke my hand and I was like, this is out of control. I need to get my shit together.

Went and seeked counseling for drugs and alcohol and that helped a lot, but he didn't really know what to do with me. He referred me to AA, which I never did. And I just was like, I can do this. I can do this by myself. Like I don't need anybody. I think it was the mentality that I had and have had growing up. I can just, I can do it myself. I basically had to tackle everything myself anyways. So I just

blew that off and slowly but surely it just creeps back in and I'm just like back in it, just drinking like every day and drinking in weed. I would say we're the most prevalent drugs later in my life that were just always there, numbing myself out every day. Yeah. It's that combination that people seem to be gravitated to, sometimes, right? Because you drink at night and then you wake up and you have the,

if you're looking for that escape, you have the weed in the morning, but you maybe function a little bit better for some than, like, to go to a job and stuff if you're drinking, it might be a little bit more challenging. But yeah,

so you go back to school, you do your undergraduate. Yep. You get a little bit of time under your belt, but yeah, left to our own devices, yeah, we know what's best, right? We'll figure it out.

We got this. We got, I'm going to figure it out. I'm just, going to I would do the thing too. I'm just going to wheel my way through it. I'm not talking to anybody about anything in life. I'm just going to, and it just, I don't know, for me, man, I know, I always, I always needed a relief from that. And the only tool I had in my toolbox was more drink, more drunk. Exactly. It wasn't even, it wasn't even when I reflect back there, wasn't even necessarily that I was like, oh, I need to drink. I need, I just needed to escape. And that's what works so

well. If I would have had other tools, maybe I could have relied on those. And that's a big thing about like recovery and sobriety is try to get some other tools about how we're going to deal and work through and with all the emotions that we're going to feel throughout life. But so you do your undergrad, you finished that. Did you finish that up? I did. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Wow. So that that was a great accomplishment. I was super, super excited about it. I had planned to, to maybe move to either Oregon or California because just to pursue a film career, I couldn't really stick in Bozeman. But that same week that I graduated, I actually met now my ex. I met him that same week that I graduated college.

And this is a, he had just moved to Bozeman. And we just clicked like right away. And I just, it was quick. We were living together within three months. And I was together with him for about four to five. years and that could be a whole other podcast, that experience, but it was, it taught me a lot, but also the thing, unfortunately, it didn't work out, obviously due to a lot of mistakes that I made. I would say one of them being that I knew I still just didn't have any self-worth.

I didn't love myself and you really can't be in a relationship with somebody else if you're not there for yourself or love yourself. You just can't. And I know that now. At that time, I didn't, but it quickly became prevalent, but I just try to keep stuffing it down, keep stuffing it down. And that's like when I really started drinking again because the world of breweries started to happen in Bozeman. And that just got me heavy into the beer.

And I just slowly started, yeah, drinking again, smoking pot a lot, smoking cigarettes. I've been smoking cigarettes since I was in high school, too, quit that for a while, but then started again. we broke up and after that it was just like some like mid 30s here and after that it was just like I was in my 20s again like it was just back to party and create that's all I was doing working and drinking and whatever drugs came along I live near downtown Bozeman so super close to the bar scene and I was hurting from what had happened with that relationship and my roommate who was a good friend he was just going through a divorce so we were both hurting. So we, it was easy to just go and have a good time. Again, just to like the pain away

for lack of a better saying. And it just, it kept on happening. And it was so easy just to fall back into all those habits. And that's again, just how I dealt with everything by not dealing with it. Yeah. Yeah. And it works until it doesn't work too. That like we can definitely avoid stuff for a certain amount of time, but I feel like eventually it's still going to be there, whether we have it on our mind or not. A lot of this stuff just doesn't magically go away. And that's good. That's a really good kind of realization there, too, about the whole loving yourself to be

in a relationship, wanting this to work out so bad for this relationship to work out, but coming to realize, like, you can't really give away what you don't have. It's a hard thing to do. I used to work with these young kids and they were falling in love, left, and sent me. they were falling in love left and center. And they struggled with what we've all struggled with to where we didn't necessarily have that connection with ourselves. And now we're trying to explain to him,

if you don't have a $100 bill, you can't give someone else $100 bill. I don't know if they got it or not. But it's that thing about how you have to work on yourself and work on that development before you're able to give that to somebody else. Like I'm with you on that 100%. Like I wanted relationships in my earlier days to work out. But, man, I didn't.

know how to, I just didn't know how to do that one crucial component. That's what I was missing. Yeah. And I think for me, I thought I was helping myself just because I was helping social. I was a very social person. And I felt like I was making all these connections and had these close connections. But as like, it's not helping yourself at all. You're just, you're not dealing with anything. And I just thought it was normal. I just, drinking it becomes so normalized for me all through my childhood, all through high school, all, all throughout my whole, life because I was hanging out with those people like where it was their lives. It was my lives. So I just thought everybody that was just the way it was. And I know that's how it was with my family too growing up.

Like they just also thought that's how it was. Like everybody drank like that. And it's not the case. But I just found sobriety wasn't even anything that entered my my mind at all. It was something that maybe like about a few years ago when I was, yeah, about 40, I would say 39, 40, started thinking about it more, started getting into the sober October mentality, thought I could do that, which I did. And so I felt like I had a grasp on everything. But before you know, you're just right back into the same. I would find excuses or had excuses to go out every night, to go meet up with people and have a few beers, but then I would drink more on top of that as well. And it was just the way to function every day. I didn't know anything different. That's just the way it was.

Pretty much my whole life. Yeah. Up until now. What nine months are right? Nine months? Yeah. Coming up on nine months. Exactly. Yeah. And it was just one of those things. I think I had, I know I had the internal battle going for a while. like that struggle of just like wanting to change things but not knowing how and I did the pandemic help and if anything helped a lot of people self-reflect I think and I knew that I needed to deal with some stuff so I decided to go to therapy and I think that was one of the best steps I've taken in my life because it's just been a snowball effect into other parts of my life and started really working on some of that past trauma, the things that I had never dealt with, basically.

And those were just stepping blocks, basically, to get me to sobriety by actually doing some of that work and self-care. But it still wasn't really there. Like, it wasn't even possible. Like, the thought of not drinking wasn't even a reality at all. A couple years ago, though, too, my older brother, he was actually, he was killed by a drunk driver. And that was a lot to process. And I am grateful that I had just started going to therapy a few months prior.

And I'm so grateful that I had that resource in place already before that happened because it, it hit me a lot more than I had it anticipated just because the relationship with my brother and I, Like it wasn't really there. I hadn't seen them since I'd cut ties with all of my family when I was 13. But over the years, we had tried to connect. We had brief conversations here and there, but he was just, like I said, he was constantly in and out of prison. He was still actively doing meth.

But there was that hope that we could reconnect again at some point. And I knew I wanted to because I also knew through the pipeline and through some of the conversations that we had that he was. was gay as well. And it was just something that I really wanted to be able to connect with and talk about with him and just his experiences, right? And just relate to somebody about that. And I just unfortunately never got that opportunity. And I blame that more on the drugs. I think he, I always thought if anything, he would die from the overdose or something. And the fact that he actually got killed by a drunk driver is just, I don't know, just crazy to me. And,

And it didn't end the way I wanted to with my brother. And I actually had to cut off several our relationship just like a year prior because he, I know he was using and he just randomly hit me up for money. And I knew what it was for. So I cut off our relationship. And that was the last communication we had. It was very, it was him being very angry with me and upset that I wouldn't help him out. And he always thought he could count on me.

But I know that was the drugs talking. I know that now. And I'm grateful because a year later after he had died, I had actually come across some old texts that we had. And I came across a text just with him saying how much he loved me. And he did feel like I was his brother, even though we weren't close. He was proud of me.

And that's what I choose to remember. And I know that's how he felt too. But it was definitely, it hit me hard and it was a lot to process and I think that was really like the beginning of reflecting on like how much drugs and alcohol have affected my family and me even though I felt like I was always comparing myself right to that extreme thinking that I was okay so I wasn't that bad but I know there's a whole there's a whole spectrum it's that you don't have to be at that rock bottom we all have our different rock bottoms and I can't say like on paper like that I had this one significant

moment that was like my rock bottom. I think it had many rock bottoms throughout my life. But I just kept going and just kept ignoring it like waking up in my own vomit multiple times like getting in trouble with the law. My family's dying and yet I just didn't care to look at the root cause of it all until that happened. And I just became very. sober, curious after that, I would say, and just continue to explore that after he died. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot.

Yeah. There's always a little bit of hope there, I think, when people are still around, one day you'll be able to connect and maybe make sense of it all. But yeah, with his passing, then, that door for now anyway is closed, right? It's real. And that's hard, ma'am. That's really hard. And even though you guys were separated and you weren't in contact, like, every day or

but still, I think there's probably a really special bond between brothers, right? Yeah. There was definitely like always that, like I said, that hope, I guess, that we would reunite again sometime and whatever that looked like and connect again at some point. And yeah, it hurt for sure. But I worked through that and going through therapy, again, it was huge for me. And it just opened up the door to a lot of self-reflection and processing. everything that had happened. And my therapist actually started putting the kind of the seed in me,

if you will, like the idea of becoming involved with social work because you knew I was just very passionate about social justice. And I think with my lived in experience, experiences of a lot of different things that I could be very valuable to that field. And again, I was like, God, this is just something I never even thought of. And it's, I just, I just couldn't get it out of my mind. So I just decided, fuck it, I'll give this a go and applied for grad school. And I'm currently in grad school to get my master's as a social work, which in itself has been so therapeutic to me because I've learned so much. It's given me so much insight and knowledge just about myself while learning about other people that it's really just been a crazy, awesome.

blowing journey and I couldn't be any more grateful for my therapist, even for guiding me that way, because I knew I'd been through a lot of shit, but that was it. It was just like a bunch of baggage, but now it's like I realize like how I can use it. It's, I can actually use this for something to help other people, hopefully, and it's just helped me process everything. And it's just been a awesome journey. And at this point still, I didn't think sobriety was an option. I was. wasn't even thinking about it still. And yeah, I got back into doing Coke and whatnot last year and just found myself back into the same habits and grind of just drugs and alcohol.

And it wasn't serving me, though. And that voice in the back of my head was just getting louder and louder. Like, I knew it wasn't good for me. My health was deteriorating drastically. And then I don't know what happened, but I got, I got sick pretty. pretty sick with the flu or something. So I didn't drink or do drugs for 10 days. And I was just like, fuck it.

I'm going to keep this going. I'm just going to keep this going. And it was like a switch had gone off in my mind. And I knew I didn't want to do it anymore. It just felt different. And that's what I did. I just quit. I just quit everything.

And I haven't looked back since. And so you brought up to the rock bottoms thing, right? I think a lot of people, it's like searching for the. rock bottom to be the reason why we get sober. And literally that story you just shared is literally what like so many people experience. You wake up one day and bang, it all makes sense. It just makes sense and you're just like, I just don't want to live this anyway. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I don't want to live this way. I'm just going to put one foot in front of the other and just try to get one day under my belt and one turns to two and two turns to 365 before you know it. And I think that's so encouraging. That's so encouraging in the way that we don't have to burn things completely to the Like literally you can wake up and make a decision and a choice today. If anyone's struggling or anyone's up in the mix, you can do that today. So just say enough is enough.

And I'm going to start living another way, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, so currently I am just enjoying sobriety. The first six months was difficult. I just was white knuckling. I decided to just do it, like I said, by myself. I was just like, I don't know if I'm still. stubborn that way for better or worse, but I was just like, I got this. I can do it.

But it was hard. It was difficult. And the sense of self-discovery, though, was like coming back. And I just realized like, wow, I do not know who I am. Like, I just didn't know myself at all. And the world has just been like opened up into so many new opportunities. Like I never would have thought I'd be talking to you, right? A podcast about sobriety. That was not even something I could have ever thought possible. And I'm just really excited to see where I go with my career in the future to take this. Because like I said, addiction, it was not even anything I had thought of up until I became sober. And now it's been a detour, if you will, like with my career, because I do want to go and move

forward into recovery programs or addiction recovery and help people because I've learned how powerful and helpful, like using my experience. is to help other people as opposed to a weakness. Like I've always thought of it always as a weakness and just something like a hurdle to get over. But now it's I look at it like there's superpowers right. Yes, I'm an indigenous gay male who has dealt with substance use. Like there's a lot there that I hope I can use to help other people just get through it. That's all I want and that you are worthy for recovery.

Like, you are worthy. And that's just something I never thought I was. And it's important to take care of yourself to help other people. And I think just growing up as a gay person, like we grow up playing a version of ourselves that sacrifices authenticity to basically minimize discrimination and prejudice. And I think that's something I've done my whole life. And I'm sick of doing that. It's crazy.

Actually, the parallel journeys I felt like. like I've had so far with honestly my part of identity is being gay and sobriety. There's a lot of similarities between coming out and coming out about sobriety in a lot of ways. There's a lot of assumptions that are made for both. Like coming out is a constant thing. And it's it can be exhausting because we're in a world where everybody assumes that you're straight and shouldn't even have to come out. But it's obviously my option too. if I decide I'm comfortable enough.

And if I feel like you deserve to know that, but that assumption is still made, it's very much the same with sobriety. People assume that everybody else drinks. And you have to come out about your sobriety if you want to. You don't need to, but I do think there's so much power in sharing your story and being vulnerable is not a bad thing. That is something I always struggled with. that I know a lot of people struggle with,

but just sharing your story, like, it's, there's a lot of power in that. And the fact that you've created, like, the safe space for people to share their story is incredible. Yeah, that's, I think all I got on that. Yeah. No, that's incredible. And I like, you know, how you broke that down.

It makes it, it makes so much sense, right? Because you're meeting new people in different situations. And you're explaining it or people are asking, yeah, with surprise with coming out, yeah, it can be exhausting. and we can relate with that in a sense. I'm wondering, Joe, if you went back to when you were 12, that incident with your dad, that whole thing, what would you say to yourself if you had a chance to go back to that point in time,

12-year-old Joe, with all that stuff happening? Oh, man, just that I would tell myself that it will be okay. Like, you are love. I think that's the main thing because I felt such a sense of reject rejection from my mother. And I know that that hurt me for a long time. But I also know I felt like I just wasn't accepted because I was gay as well. And so if I could go back, it would be to tell myself, like, you are worthy. I had nobody telling me that. I had nobody telling me that and that you are loved and you are not alone. Like that is something like I've always felt very alone. But

now in sobriety, I don't. I finally have found people in a community that I know I belong with, and that has never happened before. And I realize that's why it has been so fulfilling to me already. In less than a year, I finally feel like I've found people I belong with. Genuine, awesome connections, and I'm present. I'm not just trying to fit in anymore. I'm ready to blaze my own path moving forward and not look back and just keep moving forward. Wow, dude, I'm taking it all in over here, Joe, because that's just so powerful about what it'll work out. It'll work out with time. And here you are. Here you are working it out and making a difference in this world, working towards your education and to get out there and make a difference in people's lives

and with your experience going through all of this. You're going to be able to get right on people's levels with what it's like and really help them out. Thank you so much for this, Joe. really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate you. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens. Yeah, same. Awesome.

All right. Thanks, Fred. Well, there it is, everyone. What an incredible, incredible episode. Thank you, Joe so much. And as we release this episode on Friday, November 10th, Joe will be celebrating nine months. Everything just kind of lined up.

It's so weird that that happened. But let's go over to Instagram and wish, Joe, congrats. Let Joe know that we appreciate him coming on the show and sharing his story and also congrats on nine months. So head over to Mighty Joe M.T on Instagram, and I'll drop the link for that in the show notes below. So you just click it and boom, you're there. Thank you, Joe. I've had the privilege to get to know Joe over the last few months from the Sober Buddy app. Joe's a community on Sober Buddy. Jo joins a lot of groups, helps me out. with a lot of things, with the groups, and it's just been a pleasure to get to know Joe.

He's kind, he's supportive, everything in between. So again, Joe, thank you. Look, I haven't done this for a while, but if you listen right to the end of the show, that means you love it. And I want to let at least one person know that I appreciate you. If you made it to the end here, and you're the first person to send me an email to Brad at Brad T. MacLeod.com. You can pick out something from the online shop.

How about that? First person to send me that email, you get to pick out whatever you want from the online shop, and I'll send it to you. If you guys are enjoying the episodes and the show and everything, be sure to drop a review. It's really helpful for new people that are considering what shows that they're going to check out.

There's just so many. So let them know what you're thinking of it. And if you're enjoying it, If you're not enjoying it, let's talk before you leave a review. But thank you, everybody, for the continued support. And I'll see you on the next one.