Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - For Brenden Alcohol and Xanax Worked Until It Didn't.

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

In this episode, Brad welcomes Brenden to share his story. Brenden recounts his childhood in Northeast Seattle, growing up in a loving, close-knit family, and the early influences of his father's sobriety. Diagnosed with ADD and ADHD, school was challenging for Brenden, but he found identity in sports. A series of concussions during high school led him to begin drinking. This episode dives into Brenden's battles with addiction, including alcohol and Xanax, which worsened over time. After hitting rock bottom, Brenden sought help, spending 90 days in rehab. Now sober for five years, he discusses the tools that helped him stay sober and the importance of community support. 👇 Join the Sober Motivation Community: https://sobermotivation.mn.co/ Brenden's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brendencorr/

Welcome back to Season 3 of the Suburmotivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, we have Brendan, who recounts his childhood in Northeast Seattle, growing up in a loving, close-knit family, and the early influences of his father's sobriety. Diagnosed with ADD, school was a challenge for Brendan. But he found identity in sports, a series of children.

concussions during high school led him to begin drinking. This episode dives into Brendan's battles with addiction, including alcohol and Xanax, which worsened over time. After hitting rock bottom, Brendan sought help spending 90 days in rehab. Now sober over five years. He discusses the tools that helped him stay sober and the importance of community support. And this is Brendan's story on the sober motivation podcast. How's it going everyone? Brad here. Oh man, I just got done moving. It's been a week now, but let me tell you, it was a lot. So that's why it's a little bit quiet here on the podcast. I had all my stuff packed up and then the move and everything like that.

And it was way more stuff than I ever realized. But we're all settled in now. I'm in a new office, so the audio is going to sound a little bit different for a bit until I can get some of this stuff figured out. But I want to thank you guys for the messages. Another incredible story here coming up on the podcast. It's the holidays. They're right around the corner for us.

You know, New Year's, too, is a big one, Christmas. Just a holiday season, right? It can be really, really tough if you're new to sobriety or really anywhere you're at in your sobriety. It can be tough. So I just encourage everybody to stay connected to what's working for you. I also want to throw it out there, too. We're still rolling on with one month free in the Suburmotivation community. So I would love to have you join a bunch more people from the podcast are joining in.

It's really great to get to connect with everybody. learn a little bit more about your stories and where you're at and hopefully offer some support and some help along the way. It is truly a magical community and everything is completely possible on this sober journey. So check us out. I'll drop the link to join, plug in for your first 30 days for free, down to the show notes below. We would love to have you. Now let's get to this episode. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today we've got Brendan with us. How are you? I'm great, Brad. Nice to see you, man. Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be on. Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for reaching out. We want to share your story here with all of us. So what was it like for you growing up?

My childhood was great, man. I grew up in northeast Seattle, so just south of where you guys are up there in Canada. But I'm the oldest of four. My parents still actually live in Seattle, which is great. But I grew up, great family, close-knit, a lot of cousins. But, you know, as I got older, my dad ended up actually, he was, he was. was the first person I ever knew who got sober. Because, like, very early on in his story, I guess, when I was four, five years old, I guess when I would see his car drive up, I would wonder the refrigerator, grab him a beer and, like, meet him at the door, giving him a hug as like a four-year-old. Like, now, I think my dad saw that and was like, you know, we got to cut that out. There's no good there. But, you know, outside of that, he's been sober now for 35-something years. But she, for the most of my life, was the very first person who I ever saw as like a, you know, who was sober, who had been drinking. And so for the most of my life, I never really saw him drink. And so I grew up in a household

that didn't have a ton of drinking. And but, you know, certainly as a kid, as I got older, I was ready to start exploring and jumping all over the place when I got to high school and test the mound waters. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. What were things like for you in school? They were challenging early on. I mean, I'm almost 41 now. So in the 80s, 90s, I was diagnosed early on with ADD, ADHD. I got put on Rital in. You know, I'd take a test and get C's and D's. I just couldn't concentrate. But, you know, I was a good kid. I didn't cause a lot of trouble, but I definitely had trouble in school. I was good at sports. So that was always my identity. That's the avenue I found myself in.

but that was just a byproduct of partially not really understanding how to deal with my ADD, ADHD, I guess, and from a very young age being put on Ritalin. Yeah, interesting, man, I can relate to you with that quest, man. Same story for me, man. Yeah, and I think at the time they were just like, all right, who's this weird kid who can't sit still? He's such a nice kid, but he's failing every test,

or maybe not failing every test, but just like, I was just bouncing around. I remember one time I was probably in like six or seven grade, we had like a guest speaker come in and the teacher finally comes over to me and she's like, Brendan, calm down. And my leg was shaking. I was like clicking the pen. And she was just like, what's going on? And I had no idea I was doing it. Right. That was just me being a sixth grader, but yet I couldn't sit still. I wanted to be outside running around. And so I definitely always had trouble with the focusing aspect. It's more of the book studies. That was truly where I struggled.

Yeah. I'm with you too. I got like I did the medication and everything too. I remember one time just leaving a final exam in high school just to go play basketball. Like not thinking for not thinking like further down the road like probably just penciled in the rest of the answers. Yeah. And then just left. I just had no interest in it. I just wasn't able to get to a place to be interested or focused. I never read any of the books or did much and barely skated by, right? I mean, and like, I certainly wanted to be a good student. And I felt like I always tried hard. And my parents, they tried to instill, hey, you have to do studying in the afternoon.

They tried to do that. But it was just a struggle for me, man. And it was definitely a struggle. So what started my drinking was actually in high school. I was playing football. And so this was, what, 96, 95? I get late 90s. Anyways, it doesn't really matter.

But like I ended up getting my first. of five concussions throughout high school. And that is what really started kind of me down a path of drinking because what ended up occurring was, they didn't know as much as they do now about concussions, but I got knocked out on the playing field. They just like took me off. The next day, I was back at practice.

Like no big deal, two days later, I got knocked out on the field on a Friday night. It was just this cyclical thing. And what ended up happening was I was no longer able to play kind of competitive contact sports. So I lost the ability to play soccer, football. I even got one in basketball. And kind of back to my childhood, like sports ended up becoming my identity as a 15, 16, 17 year old, right? You're searching for where you fit in. And dude, I lost all of it. I started failing out of school. And so that perpetuated into depression. I started drinking at school. I was drinking at lunch

in the high school rooms, trying to be cool. Like, I was just, navigating trying to figure out where I fit back in, man. It was terrible. Yeah. And so drinking started for you in high school too after that. Yeah, I mean, I'd had a couple beers trying it in grade school and stuff and smoke some weed in grade school. But the actual first time I felt like it became an issue was in high school when I found myself, you know, with all the concussions, I ended up, I almost flunked out of school. I couldn't go to school for like 30 days. They like kept me in, like, I was just like, I was a mess.

And so I found myself, I couldn't be on the field on a Friday night. So what's the next thing? You start hosting parties. Like I was looking for a way to fit in. I was throwing all the parties. And not to say that they weren't happening anyways, but I was certainly becoming more of a focal piece of it because I would try and to maintain some semblance of a reputation.

and identity because, you know, had no coping skills. I had football. I had basketball. That was how I related to everybody. Yeah. What do things look like for you, like the tail end of high school and where you go after that? I mean, I think, so, I mean, I ended up, thankfully, I found an avenue.

I found some coping skills. And I think probably one of my biggest regrets, honestly, is that my parents, they tried to get me into seeing at the time it was a psychiatry. right. Now, the verbiage and everything has been changed. Now you can go and see a mental health therapist or you can go talk to somebody. I certainly wish I would have given that a little bit more, giving it more of a try. Like I went in and this guy was like, hey, sit on this weird looking couch and I'm a 16 year old kid. I was like, yeah, like, I'm not going in there. Like, I don't want to talk to this weirdo about my feelings. And in hindsight, like, what a missed opportunity I was. I just didn't

really understand the actual struggles that I was going through. And so as I wrapped up high school, thankfully I ended up finding, I ended up being able to do crew. So that kind of gave me that athletic outlet connection back to people. It got me back on track in school, graduated, went to college. And actually surprisingly in college, because I had the issues early on with drinking, when I got to college, much like a lot of my friends, I didn't really feel the need to just go like absolute buck wild because I'd already been drinking for like three years like in my basement like I didn't need that I didn't need to go be a rebel and so I actually did really well in college which was surprising being a part of a fraternity and I don't know man it was just a different

experience for me yeah that's it yeah that's interesting too because a lot of people share too colleges where things really ramp up but yeah right already been ramped up maybe before that Looking at the earlier days, I mean, you mentioned there, too, the identity and trying to find our place in the world and it all being really confusing when we're in that. Those are tough years. Those are tough years to go through and not really know where we're headed. I mean, what was there? What were you leaning on alcohol to provide for you in those days? I mean, I think it was, I guess I'd say that it was probably the only thing I really thought of. I didn't know, oh, hey, I should go in journal. Oh, there's breathing exercises.

Oh, I should read a book. Oh, hey, I should talk to somebody. While my parents were really good about trying those things, as a 16-year-old high school kid, I wasn't hearing the message from them. And again, I mean, I'm a stubborn 41-year-old. I still don't hear the messages sometimes I need to today. but like as a 16 year old kid who's fighting their own identity and being in high school which is confusing I think I turned to it because it felt like the cool the way to fit in but felt like the

hey why not do something cool and different and try to I don't know I that's a great question I haven't ever thought about like why I did that and maybe it was just because it was the only thing I really thought could help or maybe I tried it once and was like, hey, I don't feel bad anymore. Sounds great. I'll try it again. Or hey, I forgot. I don't hear all of that depression. I don't feel all of that anxiety. I don't see that sadness anymore in the mirror. Okay. I'll keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I always give myself grace in this journey when I look back on the choices and direction. I went. One thing that always helps me too is like I believe I was doing the best I could with what I had at the time. And I had those interventions like what you mentioned to psychiatrists, doctors, everything. And like, I mean, now I know through practice of doing that stuff, like how to plug in, how to make it be beneficial. But yeah, it's so confusing it. I remember that story you painted there too about going in in the weird couch. I used to go see this guy at his house in the in his basement. And I mean, totally great guy. But it was just a weird. thing when I look back at it too, like, this was just strange. But I think then, I mean, I'm 37, too,

so not too far off where you are. So that same time frame, like, yeah, I mean, the language and how we talked about things and what was what, even though it wasn't that long ago necessarily, like, it was completely different. So, I mean, yeah, like, I remember going up to this guy's house and it was like, just one of the rooms in his house was his therapy center. And I was just lay on this weird looking couch chair thing. Like, no thanks. I'm good. Like, I don't need to go back there. And in height, and again, I, thankfully now, I actually go and I can, and I talk to some high school kids because it's a way I can give back because I just think, hey, I may still have ended up as an alcoholic. It certainly runs in my family, my jeans, and my own choices. But like, high school kids now

have a unique ability. There's certainly a lot more awareness around mental health. compassion, empathy, being able to talk to people. So when I talk to these high school kids, I really try to make a point of like, how do we just talk to one another? How can we be a good listener to somebody who's struggling? Because we used to have to put on these crazy, I mean, we still put on these crazy faces

in the corporate world with our friends and family. But like, dude, we've all struggled. Divorce, death, insomnia, weight gain, weight loss. I mean, job loss, like you name it. But if I can help those kids understand some early coping strategies, like maybe it changes just one kid's choice at some point along the way. Because I certainly, I can give myself grace, but it would have been nice to have been a little bit more open-minded

to some of those options that were maybe thrown to me at that time. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you on that too. I always think back to the, when I get to this like high, I always think back to the dare campaign too. And they just say no to drugs. And that was the big, that was the big message, right? Just say no to drugs in the dare campaign of just say no.

My problem was is I put alcohol and drugs all in one bucket. And I was like, I've already said yes, but I never, I felt like I never got that message. Like, if you find yourself in this spot, how can you start to work out of it? It was just saying no. And like, most people did like a pretty good job at doing that. But I was like, I'm on the other side of it. I've already said yes. This is where I'm headed with things.

Like, how do I get out of it without feeling the shame of like, I'm the only one doing it and struggling with that sort of conversation? I love that approach, though, too. It's like just deploy a few tools about if you're in a tough spot about how you can talk with somebody and just get it out there. Totally. Totally. And also, like, thinking back on the dare, like, what an impossible message for someone who's in sixth grade all the way up to a junior or senior in high school to relate to? I get that it was great at the time and it was probably pretty unique and they were like, wow, what a cool, like, that's not relatable in a lot of ways. And I'm not saying a 40 year old

talking to a bunch of 16, 17 year olds is, but it might be a little bit more relatable because I've experienced it. And it's a true kind of lived experiences that I can talk about as a result to being able to go back to those and draw from that. I was in high school. I chose to not get therapy. I chose to not do hot yoga or whatever. Like, I don't know how many high school kids are doing hot yoga, but. Hey, we might be surprised on that.

So you have your college venture there. I mean, if there's anything else to highlight there, go ahead. But if not, just thinking things moving forward. I mean, does this progress for you? and the role plays in your life? Yeah, I would say what ends up happening throughout and I'll catch us up to speed where we are today is that I found myself in high school,

I didn't learn coping mechanisms. So then the next 15 years, what ended up happening was I was finding myself in these peaks and valleys, right? Everything would be going great for a number of years, and then I'd find myself, something would go wrong, job loss, anxiety. Like, things would creep back in

and I didn't have any of those tools. So what did I rely upon? I'd rely upon alcohol for a number of years because that was the trusted solution that I had convinced myself was worthwhile. And then I'd pull myself out of it somehow. When I was 29, 30 was when things really actually changed for me. I found myself really struggling. Things weren't working. And so I finally went to the doctor and I said, hey, I need some medicine, right?

So we tried for about a year, all the different medicines. and I ended up getting put on some medicine, and it was like home run, totally worked, cured anxiety, depression really helped. I started feeling better. I was able to make presentations at work. Relationship was getting better. And so for about a year, things were really good. A year and a half, things were good.

I wasn't relying upon alcohol. And again, I was in my early 30s, had a wonderful person I was dating, living with her. And life was good. owned a house. The problem is, as I come to later find out, the medicine that I had been prescribed was Al-Prasaland, which is a generic version of Xanax. And so what was happening is, while it was great, I was taking it as needed over time, over time became more and more frequently. And so over the next five years, in the first two years, I had about, I think I had like nine or like nine or 11 prescription refills, and then over the next two and a half years, I had 54 refills.

Wow. Instant addiction, right? Now, part of that blame lies upon me because I didn't realize that the drug I was taking. It was certainly working, but of course, anytime I was having anxiety or depression, like, I started taking it. And so that dosage over time became more addictive. And so what was happening is my body was building up a tolerance. And so then, of course, the more I took it, the more I needed for the same results.

And so five years in, now during that time period, again, I had some peaks in valleys, but I ended up going from very successful career. I was married, owned a house, owned two houses at the time. but by the time we realized what was happening with the Xanax, I was in a complete free fall, and I wasn't getting any more of the Xanax. And so what then was happening is, again, I had no other coping mechanisms that I have learned even at 36.

What did I turn to? I turned back to alcohol again, right? So now I'm trying to like basically detox off of Xanax somehow, or cure these kind of demons, these voices that I'm feeling from the withdrawals of Xanax. And then so I'm adding an alcohol. So it was just this, it was a crazy ride of both addiction to alcohol because that was all I knew. And so it's what I turned to every time things got hard. But then now you've thrown in an addiction to Xanax, which is arguably one of the more addictive

substances out there and combine it with alcohol. It was just an absolute nightmare before I went to rehab. Yeah, wow. Yeah, and mixing alcohol in Xanax. But when you were on the Xanax, you weren't drinking that much. It was certainly helping. I mean, I was going out. We were doing our thing.

I was living. Things were great for those first few years. It felt like I had found some medicine that helped curb some of the anxiety. And did I have spells, you know, where I felt anxiety. I felt the depression. And I felt, of course. But like for the larger kind of picture, it seemed to work. And so I could drink maybe without it being needed to be a coping mechanism.

I drink like a normal person, I guess, for a little while there. And we would go out, we'd go to parties, we'd do birthdays, we'd travel, and seemingly never really had an issue. But I also probably, Brad, I also probably knowing my dad and my family and something of the history. I always had this like inkling that I'd probably just would stop drinking at some point. Like just yeah, it was always in the back of my mind. But the Xanax definitely helped how I felt for a while, much like alcohol. It worked until it didn't. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I'm just curious here too while you're going through this. So you go and you

see the psychiatrist, the doctor, and you do your meetings, you get on this prescription. Throughout this and sort of a game plan for you to look at this stuff. Is there any like therapy suggested or anything about like, hey, let's figure out like what's going on with, or what's when on so that we can work through this and maybe Xanax not be part of the picture forever or was it just like? Very little from the doctor's perspective until it was too late, which is too bad. And again, I absolutely have some of my own responsibility within that. And my wife at the time, we certainly, it was a downward spiral that you can see coming, right? It's like a tornado. You can hear it. You blare the warning signs because you can see it, but sometimes by the time you actually get out, it might be too late. So we certainly were trying things. I was going over to my parents' house at the end. We were trying therapy, but I was like showing up to therapy after drinking. I was going to my parents' house and we were having dinner twice a week because those were the days I was supposed to not drink. I was just drinking at lunch. It was just by the time I think we realized the problem that was in front of us and what the medicine that I was on was actually doing to my body, it was really too little too late.

And so it was July of 2019 that we finally went into the doctor and we were like, look, this is not working. And right or wrong, he actually at first increased my Xanax to try. try to help stabilize it because I was having like, I was having like mental breakdowns. I was running around my house at 3 a.m. by boxers. I was breaking weight of toes or I was running into the refra. When we sold our house, dude, I looked at the refrigerator. There's a massive debt because I had run like full speed head first into it and

just I'm lucky and break my neck. But like, it was just these mental terrors. So we increased the dosage just to try to stabilize me. But that only ended. it up again, it just progressed worse. So then the therapist was like, dude, I can't see you anymore. We need to find somebody else because obviously I'm not the solution. If you're still drinking, this is a larger problem than what I can do. So we were certainly throwing things at the problem. But again, the medicine and the alcohol combined, it didn't really matter

or what I needed to get sober for any of those potential solutions to really have a chance at sticking. Yeah. Yeah. Because, yeah, man, geez, you ran into the fridge. Wow. Wild. I mean, it's crazy how it progresses, too.

We hear a lot of these stories, too. And it goes quick, right? And you're right. You build up a tolerance to it just like with our drinking, right? We start out drinking this much. And then, you know, down the road, if you look at somebody's story 20 years later, and now it's the gin or, you know, the other stuff or just more and more. It always requires more to hit that baseline that we were once used to get back there.

And then with the Xanax, too, it just increases. Then it can a lot of people run into the problem with the doctor because now you have this tolerance up and you're like, hey, Doc, it's not working out used to. And Doc's like, sorry, hands are tied, right? This is where we have to, you know, maybe stay with things. And then now we've got to look at getting you off and that creates panic. Talk with a lot of people that have been through that stuff. So how do you get to the end of this thing?

Because it just progressively, you said at first, You had, what, 11, 11 prescriptions a year, and then you ended up with 52? Like so. It was just crazy. And I kept making excuses to get the prescription refilled. And certainly, I think some red flags were starting to finally go with the doctor. It wasn't until I think it was October 2019. So we were having that slow downward spiral.

And then October of 2019, it just all hit the, my mental state was just slow. It was quickly declining. where to a point where people were starting, they were already worried, but at one point, like, the suicidal ideation started creeping in because I was also,

I wasn't sleeping. I was taking serrated knives and just, like, cutting my body, hitting myself in the face with them. Like, like, and like, what? Like, I think back, and it's just like these crazy kind of nightmare solutions, but it's like,

it was so bad, these mental terrors I was having. So I'd be up at two, three, 4 a.m. drinking a bottle of wine thinking that it would just help me just to fall asleep. And it was just this crazy cycle. So finally in November of 2019, I actually go down to California. I go down. I do originally just 30 days because one night I was just up. I called my mom at like 4 a.m. And I'm just like, I'm done. I'm tired. So she comes over the next day we fly down. I go down with my cousin. And for the first time,

I don't know if I was ready, but I was certainly more willing to see what this was all about, right? Because what I was doing wasn't working. I knew it wasn't the person I was destined to be. So I said, yes, went down to California, started out at 30 days at Hotel California by the sea down to Newport, spent 30 days, found that it was okay. And it was miserable for the first 30 days, but I also, for the first time in years, had some clarity, was actually sleeping. I remember, like, I was dreaming for the first time in a few years for like 10 years. I was like, shit, I remember that dream. And that was like mind-blowing because I had just been numbing myself for so long.

So I spent 90 days down there and best 90 days of my life. It was the springboard to get me to where I am today. Yeah, wow, that's beautiful. Going back a little bit there too, though, because he had a prescription for it, right? Yeah. For the Xanax, I mean, not necessarily the alcohol, but how did you come to the conclusion of like, because I think that's something that people have to go through, right? Because it's, this is what I've heard, right, is that it's prescribed.

So can't necessarily, you know, I mean, you can't get addicted to it. It can't be a problem like I'm getting, you know what I mean, everything, right? Was that something that you relate to or no? Absolutely. I mean, also, every time I took it, I looked at the bottle. It didn't just say Xanax don't take addictive. It said Alprazaland, take as needed. So it's like I also allowed myself to convince myself that it was okay.

Now, whether or not the doctor told me, this is Xanax, don't take it every day. I don't remember. I'm sure we had some sort of conversation like that. I don't know. But without a doubt, it was like, this is what I'm supposed to be taking. This is what the doctor prescribed. I have to trust it. So I'm going to take it.

And when I don't feel good, I take it. And when I don't feel good, it's still, I take more, right? That's what I would, I had been taught and imagined I was supposed to be doing. Because also, I knew the downside of that was anxiety, depression, not wanting to get out of bed, not wanting to go to work, fear of talking at work events, all of that stuff. And I knew that the bottle, whatever this was, helped make me feel better. Yeah. Until it didn't.

Yeah. And it seems like, too, what was it? Like, I think you said, a couple years into it, maybe the lines get blurred in one way or another, too, to where lean more and more as the tolerance builds, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know when, I don't remember exactly when that was, but certainly, when I looked back in my prescription history, when I got sober, it was like, hey, in two and a half years, yeah, I had 20-something prescriptions. And then the other side was two and a half years. And I had like 53, 54. It's like, you could see the addiction in just the prescription refills. And so, yeah. But I didn't see that at the time. Because for me, all I saw was this is a medicine I'm supposed to be taking. I do feel.

better when I'm on it and it for the most part does make me feel better and I drink less when I'm on it. So it's why would I not take it? Okay. But then as you take more and more, that tolerance is building and then when that rug gets pulled out from underneath you, it's it was just chaos, man. And again, my my downward spiral wasn't years. It was one year, arguably six months, because it was just so hectic by the time we realized where we were at. I was just so addicted to it. And I had been for five plus years. Yeah. Did when you mentioned there with the rug, like did the rug get pulled out from under it, from under you for this? Yeah. So while I was struggling leading up to it, and even though I was having all these mental terrors, the doctor

initially increased it to try to get me back on track. When that didn't work, he basically just cut off the supply of that. He put me on Alexa Pro and some other things. And then that is when it really got significantly worse in that kind of August, September, October time frame because you can't just so many people, it takes years to get off of Xanax. You can die during a withdrawal from Xanax. And these are all things I've learned since, right? At the time, I was just like, it wasn't a free fall and couldn't care less. But when he stopped it, like, thinking back, like, just how dangerous it was, when I ended up in a couple different, like, detox centers along the way.

But when that rug got pulled, that was really the catalyst for that when the knives, the suicidal ideations, and really, like, some of the insomnia, lack of sleep, I was drinking on the way to work at 7 a.m. It was just, like, it was just such a. I'm sure there are so many people who will listen to this and say, hey, same, right? Like, or drinking on the way to work. Yeah, get it. Drinking at 3 a.m. get it. But it was just, I had to escape, man.

Like those demons are real. And when you don't sleep, they get worse. And when they get worse, you don't sleep. And then when you don't sleep, you also drink. And then when you drink, it's like this week. It's just this cyclical effect, man. It was just crazy. Yeah, and it's one of those things, too, where it takes a long time to get things back to like a good baseline state to heal and everything from it.

So a lot of that stuff, too, that was going on with you, is that was because of the withdrawals then, like when you're doing the things with the knives and staying up all night, I mean, those are the opposite effects of. Yeah, I think it was, I mean, it was certainly, the catalyst was the withdrawals, but then certainly I was using alcohol as a crush. because I didn't have the Xanax anymore. And it was, again, the only coping mechanism I really knew or understood. So although I was in a mental decline, it was like, therapy? Yeah, like, I'll try it, but that's not going to work. I'll go back to alcohol. I just didn't have any of those true foundational tools or coping mechanisms. And I probably wasn't ready for them anyways. Again, I was already too deep into the throes of addiction. I needed that sobriety to hear the message.

But on the way down, I just didn't have anything. So once again, you turn to what you know when things get challenging. And all I knew in a lot of ways was, hey, I'm struggling. I'm losing my mental capacity. I can't sleep. I'm hearing voices. Okay, I'll go drink a bottle of wine in the garage and try to pass out it on the couch. You know, that seemed. And, you know, and my poor wife at the time, she was certainly,

she was doing her best. She was trying to raise the red flag. She was trying to wave it. You know, I think we were also codependent on one another. We knew that I had a problem, but we also still had alcohol in the house. And it's like, in hindsight, there's a lot of things we could have done differently. But, you know, she put up with a lot of lot, man. And I definitely wasn't the right husband for Kerr at the time and certainly not the husband that I promised when we got married. And that's a really hard thing when you can, when you end up like this on this side and you're disappointing all of the loved ones around you too. That's a really. And that can also help the spiral. It's just, this more gas on the stove.

And then of course, there's arguments. There's disagreements. Yeah. It's just, it was, yeah, it's a nightmare. Yeah, it makes for a lot too. How were other relationships in your life too, like towards the end there with your parents and stuff like that? Everybody knew, right? Everybody knew where you were at with things? I think not everybody in my circle, certainly my immediate family. And I'm lucky enough in the sense that I'm very close with my family. But we had never done this. Nobody ever had an addiction problem to the point where we needed intervention, where we needed rehab. And so I'm very grateful for what my parents, my siblings, and my wife, Kelly, at the time, they all stuck by my side, my cousins, my friends, the ones that

knew. But in looking back on it now, I also know how lucky I am because for so many people, the cycle of addiction that keeps people in there, those strings or that bridge, get shorter and shorter every time, maybe a potential relapse occurs, you go back to rehab. Thankfully for me, that hasn't been a part of my story yet. And so my parents, they gave me as much as they could with their knowledge. Same with my, again, Kelly, my cousins, because everybody was concerned. And I'm very grateful for that. And I'm grateful that a lot of the people who maybe I potentially would have burned

ridges with are still in my life. because I've remained sober and been able to do things in the way that I can be the person that I am today or that I always thought I could be. Yeah. Yeah, having that support, I think, is good, but you're right, though. I mean, there's so many, you hear a lot of stories too. Time and time again, it wears people thin or it can. It can if it's a rinse and repeat thing. People want to see us put forth the effort and make the progress to maybe keep the support going. I just think I talked to one guy when I was in rehab, and it's like he had been there 17 times. And it's like those are real.

And his kids didn't talk to him anymore because the show intervention, whether you like it or not, it's like you do have to cut it off at some point because you do get dragged down into it. And I can see how that could happen. And knowing what I went through in the first time I did it and the toll it took on my family and the loved ones around me, if I'm playing that tape out and imagining what that would look like two, three, four, five, six more times, I can see how people get tired and they're like, I'm out. Like, I'm done. I have to protect my own self, sanity.

And so I do get it. But, you know, again, thankfully, I had a very incredible support group when I needed it. Yeah, that makes a huge difference. So when was the date you got sober? November 20th of 2019. So five years just two weeks ago. Yeah, that's incredible. Moving forward here to this side of the journey.

I mean, what were things like? So you were initially going for 30 days. He stayed for 90. I mean, what were things like for you once got out of rehab? I felt like I could tackle the world. Like, it was the, I, coming home, it was odd because I had been gone for 90 days. And also, when you go to rehab, you're not on a, you're not on some hot streak, right? You're not on a winning.

You're not winning at the roulette table or anything like that, right? So I go home, my job was strained. The relationship with my wife was strained. So there were just a lot of things that had to be taken care of, but I also felt renewed. I felt clarity for the first time in years. I felt a semblance of being proud of who I was. But it was also very challenging because I came home in February of 21, and 40 days later, we were put on lockdown for COVID. So very quickly, I had to figure out my own sobriety measures.

I was going to like two or three meetings a day when I first got home, doing kind of 12-step, the recovery program. I was in it. I learned some of the basics when I was in rehab, found some good people, started that journey when I was in Seattle, but quickly got shut down, had to really figure my way out, the online meetings. I'm also locked in a house with my wife, who also for a lot of it, we were still working on a lot of things. And it wasn't all great at home. We still had a lot to figure out. She was still drinking at the time. And so definitely a very challenging situation. And I'm pretty amazed I didn't drink quite honestly. I had every opportunity to.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what you hear a lot of times too. It's like the rehab part. The rehab's great. If it's people have the opportunity, like definitely make it happen. But realizing too when it's all over and said and done, like life is out there waiting for us, too, right? Like all the stuff. The stuff doesn't just go away what happened before. And then life's out there too. So being prepared for that on the other side, staying plugged in. What are some of the biggest tools that you were able to learn in rehab and then deploy? It sounds like you had to get going on things. early on. Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all, I talk about the clarity, and that just comes from having some time away from just drinking in alcohol. The 30 days, I can still remember those

feelings of those intervals of 30 days and what I felt like 60 days and what I felt like in 90 days. And I would say more than anything, giving myself the patience or having the patience to allow myself to be sober. I wasn't going to fix everything right away. Not everything was going to go away right away. And I wasn't going to fix everything right away because I think that's also part of the problem is we get out and it's like, if you were saying,

we're on a highway going 100 miles an hour and then we come to a stop and it's like all that stuff comes flying up. It's like all that baggage hits the front windshield and you're like trying to figure out what to do. with it. So to answer your question, though, I for the first time learned how to really connect in therapy and with a therapist. I started journaling some breath work. I also, again, part of the program was a 12-step deal, so I was doing AA and that. So I also found myself with like-minded

individuals who I could connect with relate to who had similar stories. The details are different, but we all ended up in the same room together, right? Like everybody's a little bit different, but the outcome is the same is that we couldn't control our drinking and it was ruining our lives. And so those were the key components that I took from rehab that I was able to then deploy in Seattle during COVID. And those are what allowed me to, to stay sober during that time. Yeah, incredible. Yeah, staying connected with other people. That's one of the biggest things I talk about the most is staying connected with other people that we can relate to. It makes all the difference. It's like out of anything, it makes so much of a difference

because when we're going through it, it's a lot of shame. It's a lot of beating ourselves up. It's a lot of how did I end up here? Why can't I do better? What's wrong with me? It's a lot of those things we beat ourselves up about. And I feel like when we get around other people, And like you said, the details are different, but it's like there's so many similarities to a lot of our stories. And here we are working on this thing, have a common goal of not drinking or staying sober, and just lean on each other when we need it. And then when other people are struggling, we have that opportunity to help support them. And that feels really good to be in a spot to do that. So as you move through this, I mean, five years too is, I mean, that's incredible too to where things were right for you and making this massive change.

What have been some hurdles that you've had to overcome in the last five years? I would also just go back and say that, I mean, I would argue that's why your community group is so popular, man. A.A. was great for me at the time. I don't really do it as much anymore. I'll go to a meeting here and there. But more than anything, it's because I found other communities that I feel comfortable in that I can navigate my journey with. But it's like just find a community that you feel connected to. It's like, I don't care of who you see for a therapist. Just talk to somebody who's an expert because talking to somebody who can give you valuable insights and actual do this and do this is great because then you can implement it.

And then you can also go to a community like yours and say, hey, this is also now, I don't feel so alone because there is so much. shame and guilt and just like you feel like a failure and you're not it's there's a lot of people who have varying degrees of failure and quite honestly if we can look at failure differently failure is what is the catalyst for growth in so many businesses in so many people's lives in marriages so many different things but having a community to where you feel supported is incredibly important yeah it's the michael jordan quote i don't know word for word but it basically sums up.

I've succeeded because I failed. Yeah, I mean, I have this big thing fail forward. Yeah. Just keep the momentum going forward and learn from it. And even a lot of people who get on the alcohol free and sobriety quest of things too, right, have slips, have relapses. It's not always a straight line. But getting back up and getting back at it and just looking in the mirror and asking ourselves, what can I learn from this to help me next time when I'm in this, you know, a similar spot or the same spot to have a better.

outcome of the one that I want for my life is it makes all the difference because I mean we can get on this journey drink again and we're at a fork in the road it's like okay I can beat myself up to oblivion and continue to drink or I can say you know what this is just really where I'm at my story is my story my journey is my journey it might look different than others but I have that choice to either pick myself back up or to continue to drink it's literally there's literally the two choices that we have if we end up in that spot. And that's why, even with the community, since we're on the community thing,

and I get fired up about this, I just love it when people, I don't love it, obviously, that people drink again, but I love it when there's places in their life where they feel safe enough to say, you know what, I drank again.

I'm here, I'm showing back up, I'm committing, because I remember in my life when I was trying to figure this out and I fell down so many times I couldn't even count. It took me so long to get back

because I was so worried, worried about what others were going to think about, why can't he figure it out? Because I was already having, I'm my own worst critic. I was already, whatever anybody could think about, I already 10xed it between my own ears. And I just think it's beautiful that there are so many safe places out there to where, if people are getting 30 days, then drinking again, they feel okay to plug back in and say, you know what, like, this is where I'm at. I'm back in the game.

And I'm a firm believer that the only way this works out is we got to stay in the game. You just can't quit. We can't quit on ourselves. Yeah. And going back is like you're not on a winning streak in most cases if you're getting sober or you've gone back out and you're coming back to the rooms. No judgment, but just the truth of the matter. And so it's like a lot of times that shame and guilt comes from either, hey, I've burned the bridges. I've got nobody else.

And so I need that. or it's like, I don't know where else to turn. And the reason I drink is because sometimes I'm so lonely, I've burned all of these bridges. So that is so imperative, especially in the early sobriety, to have those people. And then I think the crazy part about communities is that over time, the newbies then start to have the experience to where they can then start to offer their own experiences to some of the younger members. who are coming in or coming back end. And that is like the most beautiful gift of this whole thing, is like the ability to then give back as a part of a community.

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. We have a thing too. And in the community, too, where people who have been around for a while, they start hosting meetups. So they start hosting their own things on the weekend and helping out with different stuff too because, yeah, I think it's really important and people feel great about it to be able to help the next person and just be in here, right?

on an individual basis, we have all the answers for the way forward. It's like, we're just listening to people. And I think a lot of the time, like, we have more answers than we might give ourselves credit for. You know, I mean, nobody knows this better than us. Of course, it's great to have some guidance and maybe turn left here and turn right there occasionally. But I think, too, like, we know, if we're honest with ourselves, I think we know a lot more of the time than we give ourselves credit for that we've got an idea about where we should go with different things. But great stuff, man. I got to hear that too. I mean, I was the thing that kind of got all this going too was like some of the challenges that you've had throughout these five years because I had this thing and I'll give a little

bit of context for it. I had this thing that I thought drugs and alcohol were my problem. And there was an element of drugs and alcohol being my problem. But even when I look back up my life before I even started drinking or started doing drugs, I had a lot of problems just to be nice to myself. There was a lot of stuff, right? I never felt like I fit in. And there was trauma, there was stuff. There were things that happened in life that kind of shaped the way that I saw the world. And I had a lot of insecurities. And I was worried about what everybody else thought.

All that stuff as a young boy and the young man in this world. And alcohol and drugs for me just put all that aside, quieted it down. But what I realized quickly into my sobriety journey is that, whoa, man, all that stuff comes back up. And it was years in the works process for me to unpack all that stuff. anything there that you relate to at all or what was your experience? Yeah, I mean, I think more than anything, what I have always struggled with, I don't have any stuff from childhood. I don't really have that.

I think a lot of my problems were from my own insecurities, self-confidence, lack of identity, which then I allowed to dictate my own actions. And so when I'm in my therapy and when I'm in my things, what I'm questioning and what I'm looking for is, you know, why do I still, I'm 41, I've been sober now for five years and I give speeches and I talk in front of high school. I still have crazy anxiety. I still have insomnia. I still have depression. I still have self-doubt. I still have self-confidence issues. I still have lack of identity. It's like I'm still searching for those things and I'm still constantly working for them. So I don't know if I have an answer of like the obstacles that came forward because I think I'm always evolving looking for better solutions to help keep those at bay.

I don't know if I'll ever solve my own self-confidence issue. I don't know if I have that much to say. And if people, maybe people just think I'm a, I'm a weirdo living in Montana running away from his problems. Like, maybe. And I put a lot of that out there. And so I don't know, man. But what it does is it allows me to constantly be talking about it in a community setting with people who give a shit about me because that's also important. And I'm able to talk through these things. I've got the tools now that I'm willing and able to learn because previously I was so opposed to it. Yeah, interesting. I had a thought there. When you were sharing that too is yeah, I'm with you, always evolving, always growing, always making the difference, trying to make a difference for things. I think one of the coolest things I take away

from that is that we get to this spot and we realize that drugs and alcohol just won't fix those problems. And at one point in time, I think you shared it really well earlier as it works until it doesn't. And then you hit this spot where you're trying to manage the insanity of trying to balance all these different pieces and hold up a hundred juggling balls at the same time thinking it's never going to come crashing down, but it's just inevitable. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things about recovery and about sobriety is that what life goes on and we still have our challenges and our insecurities that we're working through and confidence and self-esteem and things in our careers. And one of the things I'm constantly working on is relationships,

like with my wife, with my kids, being a dad, it's like, gosh, where's the book at for this? Not that I would read it anyway. But what I know today that I didn't know when I struggled is that the solution to what I'm going through, if I am going to come to a solution or come to an understanding, maybe I won't find the exact answer. It's not going to be in drugs and alcohol. Escaping the problem is not going to get me closer to the understanding or the solution. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about personal development while being sober is that we see that. We have to sit with it though. It's uncomfortable at times, right? The feelings, middle, beginning, and end and let that flow take place. But it's a really a beautiful thing with the clarity, too,

you've brought up a lot in the episode. They have that clarity, too, about what do I want for my life? What do I want things to look like? But then also having the capacity and sobriety. to get there and let ourselves go through that uncomfortable turbulence at times to get to the other side. When I was using, it was like, oh my gosh, uncomfortable drink, uncomfortable drug, uncomfortable or wake up in the morning. It didn't matter. It was all I knew. Same kind of story that you've shared a bit. If you don't give yourself a chance, how can we ever expect to get better? And so for me, that was part of it is that like, until I put it down, I never realized what I was really running from. And certainly the catalyst early on for me was high school and concussions,

but that was also just masking some other issues that were underlying with my anxiety, depression, and self-confidence and doubt issues. But once I got sober, that clarity, that ability for me to say, hey, here are some of the things that I need to focus on, but I at least started to have the building blocks to start to repair a little bit of that. And undoubtedly, they topple over every once in a while, but at least now I've got some tools to say, okay, hey, I'm feeling terrible today. So what do I need? Okay, did I work out, right? Or did I eat bad? Or how was my sleep? Or did I meditate? Did I read? Did I do yoga? You name it, right? I've got a variety of different things that I can pull to now. and that is key for not then turning back to those old habits as a solution when things do get

tough. And, you know, much like a lot of people divorce, job change, I've moved cities, you know, all of these things. And now I'm in Montana, I live in a great life. Well, it was like 20 degrees this morning. It was miserable. But it's, I love it out here, man. It's given me a whole new life that I never think. thought possible. Yeah, that's incredible. Just thinking about heading towards wrapping up, if somebody's listened to this episode and they're struggling to get or stay sober, I mean, from your experience, what would you mention? Man, things. First is the community. If you're listening to this, that's probably step one. You're a part of the community. But number two is that

it does get better. And with patience and time, we have the tools as individuals to stop drinking. We just have to be willing to listen and hear the message. But a lot of times and from people I've talked to and from people that I've helped, that doesn't take place because at 30, 60, 90 days, you know, that patience runs out before that the real miracle starts happening. And it does get better. I got divorced. It was terrible. I lost a job. Terrible. Now I'm in Montana. I've got a beautiful new house. I've got an amazing new girlfriend. We are happy.

My family still is around. All of these amazing things. But I think time, patience, and just knowing that we have the ability to do it, we just have to be willing to hear the message. Yeah, willingness, yeah. Love that you plug that in there at the end, yeah, because that's, yeah, I mean, we can't make anybody be willing to do anything that has to come from the individual.

We hear a lot of stories too, right? People have a lot of rock bottom incidences. People might see interventions here or there. And it still can carry on for some time. So, yeah, I love that. I love that. Be willing and patience, too. Anything else you want to mention to?

I know you said that you had some other stuff going on. I didn't know if you wanted to mention it here as we wrap up of what you're up to these days and everything. Yeah. I mean, part of the beauty of being sober is you get to do cool stuff. And thanks for asking about it. I just actually launched a nonprofit with a, I'm in the insurance space and we just launched a nonprofit called Project 55. And now it has an alcohol kind of component, but really the whole goal

is that we found that 55% of adults don't have the mental health care that they need when they need it. And since we're in the insurance space, so what we've done is we've built a community that has information, resources, and then also a community section where people can go and they can learn about all of the different mental health issues one might face various books, resources, experts. But then what we're building right now is actually a free training. So it'll be a mental health first responder training program. And this will be free to anybody. insurance construction and it can be a a guide for how to have conversations about mental health

in the workplace because Brad I don't know about you but I don't know anything about PTSD but there are undoubtedly colleagues out there who are having conversations with somebody who has PTSD and are they asking the right questions do they have the right knowledge someone's spouse dies how do we engage with them? walk through all of that stuff and alcohol of course is part of my story so just the overarching mental health of that's part of how you get sober is also addressing just the mental health aspects and alcohol can be the largest component of that but also for a lot of people it can be the smallest component but it's a piece of their mental health struggles along the way and so it's been a really

cool initiative. Yeah, awesome, man. Excited for it. Anything else before we wrap up here? No, man. I just like, dude, I love it. You've done a pretty amazing thing for the space for a lot of people, millions of people who listen to your podcast, the community. If you haven't heard it today, I'm proud to be on this, but I'm also proud of the community that you've created. And I thank you for the opportunity to share my story and to keep spreading the message that sobriety is possible and that as a community we can make a difference. Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for jumping on

and sharing your story with us. Yeah, dude. I appreciate it, man. Thanks. All right. Well, there it is, everyone. Another incredible episode here on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed as much as I did.

I'll drop Brendan's contact information down to the show notes below. Be sure to reach out and give him a big thank you. What a year it's been for us, for the podcast. I was looking the other day and we have over two and a half million streams for the podcast, which just blows my mind. I'm a pretty keep it simple kind of guy.

And I really appreciate everybody's support, the kind words, you know, everything, making a podcast, making this many episodes, putting it all together, mostly on my own. It's a lot of work, and I'm just glad at the end of the day that a few people are enjoying it.

and that it's helping some people get on track with their life and, you know, get your families back and all that stuff. You know, there's nothing that brings me more joy than to, you know, see pictures with your families and you're making the changes and having that impact on the world, you know, our kids and everything. I mean, they're the next generation and we can show them, you know, maybe some things to look out for on their journey that we didn't have, or at least I didn't have.

I didn't know any of this stuff when I was growing up. It took me tripping over my own feet to figure some of this stuff out. So a big, huge, genuine thank you for me, for everybody that you've shared the podcast with and that you guys keep listening. It's just pretty incredible, you know, 185 or so episodes in. And I'll get messages every now and then that some people have listened to every episode. It's crazy. but we're going to keep it going.

2025 is going to be a huge year for us. So I hope you'll hang on and enjoy the ride. I'll see you on the next one.