Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - For Saz moderating her alcohol intake never worked. Quitting completely was the answer.

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

In this episode, we have Saz, she discusses her struggles with drinking, its roots in her childhood, and the escalated challenges she faced through her teenage years to adulthood because of it. Despite a supportive family and a seemingly happy childhood in Northern Ireland, Saz's insecurities and need for control led her to a struggle with eating and, later, an unhealthy relationship with alcohol as a means of coping with social anxiety and self-esteem issues. Saz did try everything to make moderation work out. But eventually, after an emotional breakup and realizing she must desire sobriety for herself rather than for others, she commits to quit drinking on her 30th birthday. This is Saz’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. ----------------------- Follow Saz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sackedthesauce/ Donate the support the show: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivation Join SoberBuddy Free 30-Day Trial: https://community.yoursoberbuddy.com/plans/368200?bundle_token=8d76ca38d63813200c6c1f46cb3bdbed&utm_source=manual  

Welcome back to season three of the Suburmotivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, we have Saz. She discusses her struggles with drinking, its roots in her childhood, and the escalating challenges she faced throughout her teenage years into adulthood because of it. Despite a supportive family and a seemingly happy childhood in Northern Ireland,

Ireland, Saz's insecurities and need for control led her to a struggle with eating and later an unhealthy relationship with alcohol as a means of coping with social anxiety and self-esteem issues. Eventually after an emotional breakup and realizing she must desire sobriety for herself rather than for others, she commits to quit drinking on her 30th birthday. And this is Saz's story on a sober motivation podcast. How's it going, everyone? Brad here. Thank you for checking out another episode. Before we jump into this, I just want to mention, if you're enjoying the podcast, it would mean the world for you to head over to buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation. And if you're in a position to do so, leave a donation to support the show. I'll also drop that link down in the show

notes below. Thank you as well for all the recent reviews of the podcast. I'm so happy to hear that you're able to connect with the guest stories and you're getting something out of the sober motivation podcast. That's what it's all about is breaking down the stigma and the shame. letting people know that we've all been through stuff. We can turn this thing around, come out the other side, really start to live in the life that we were meant for. And it's just been incredible. So thank you all a million times over for all of your support.

I had the privilege to meet SAS at an event in Toronto. It must have been about a year ago. Our mutual friend Luke, who was the first guest ever on the podcast, held an incredible alcohol-free event and we met there. And it was a really cool experience. And here we are. She just got back from her seven week trip. So glad we were able to jump on here.

I'm not going to hold you guys from it anymore. Check out this episode. See you on the other side. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got my friend Saz with us. How are you? I'm great. Thanks.

I'm so honored to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course, 110%. We're happy to have you. What were things like for you growing up? Things were amazing for me growing up, honestly, and I think that's always been part of the struggle for me understanding my drinking and why it got to such a dark place, because I often felt like I didn't deserve to kind of have these like feelings, and I couldn't really understand where it came from. I'm the eldest of four. We grew up. My parents are still very happily together. We had a lovely childhood. We were all very close as siblings. And I honestly, I just, I look back so fondly. And my family were a massive part of like my support system through all the kind of different

areas of me growing up. And it's been really difficult. I've moved away from home a couple of times. And it's been difficult kind of leaving that support system behind. But I know that they've always got my back. So that's been lovely. I think things kind of started getting, bit more difficult for me. I've always been really shy. So things got a bit more difficult for me when I went to high school. I had really bad acne and we went to a Catholic school and we weren't allowed to wear makeup so that included face makeup. And I remember one time specifically I was wearing like concealer to cover up my acne and the teacher made me take it off in front of the whole class to kind of almost reveal everything that I was so like embarrassed and ashamed about.

And I just remember there were lots of negative comments about it that really impacted my self-esteem. I just thought I was like gross and being able to socialize with others and connect with others, I was always, I would try and avoid it. And then I think when I maybe hit like 15-16, that's when the eating stuff started kind of coming in. I felt like I kind of had no control in my life just with my skin. Everything I did, it just would not get better. and I think I kind of then developed this eating disorder to almost to try and regain, take back the power of my life because I felt like by me controlling my sod excessively and like excessively working out, that was me having power in some way. So that was really difficult. A lot of people, I guess maybe in that era, people didn't know how to talk about it. So my friends like kind of noticed, but they didn't really know how to ask me about it. People noticed that I was getting like losing weight. I actually once fainted in school and the nurse had to call my mom and then I had to go to a

dietitian who had some stupid advice like, if you want to eat a scorn, just eat a scorn. If you want to have a cheeseburger, just eat a cheeseburger. And I was like, I'm cured. And it just reminds me of like when people say, when you're trying to say, oh, I want to cut down in my drinking, people are just like, just drink less. And you're like, oh, I never thought of that. Thank you. I knew that wasn't sustainable.

And it also wasn't socially acceptable. as such because people were kind of negatively commenting on it, people were like catching on to it, I was hiding and hiding and then it got to a point where I just couldn't do it anymore and that's when alcohol came in and

it was almost like my savior of allowing me to socialize, not worry about like my low self-esteem, not worried about being so like awkward and like ugly and also that that need for control that I had,

disappeared because as soon as I was drinking, it was like losing all control and I just didn't care about that anymore. And that's when it all kind of began as such. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. If people can't tell by the accent, where did you grow up at? Oh, sorry, that's probably something I should have started with. So I grew up in the north of Ireland and a little town called Bangor. It's just outside Belfast, which is the capital of the north. And yeah, I went to school in Belfast, but I always felt like I didn't quite sit in. I just, I always had this real, like, passion for wanting to travel and, like, to be somewhere else. I always wanted to go to America. I did stints in, like, Spain and France, like language exchanges. And, yeah, I think that I just

always knew that home, although I loved it, I just felt like I needed something. There's so much more out there, and I knew that I wasn't happy with myself, and I felt that maybe going somewhere else might be the answer to them. Yeah. That's interesting too, right, because a lot of people will share about that, moving and going here, going there. But the thing you probably figured out, and I think a lot of us do, is that everywhere we go, we go with ourselves so we can maybe make things work for a little bit, but then there we are, right? I think that the expression goes, wherever you go, there you are. So you struggled early on in high school. I mean, that's a very relatable topic.

I mean, for me personally, and for a lot of people, we felt, uncomfortable in our own skin. And then I think what happened for me at that time when I felt uncomfortable like that as I started to wear these different masks in different situations. My home life looked different than with this friend, with that friend, or these different activities that I did. And what I realized looking back, I didn't know any of this at the time, but what I realized looking back is I was just chipping away at my authentic self, if that was anything I understood then. And then became all of these different people in all these different But couldn't really keep it up and keep it together.

And I think after a while it got exposed. And that was really tough. High school for me was really tough as well. I didn't fit in. I had a hard time making friends. And I never really understood it. Other people just, it just seemed to work so easily for them to connect and be a part of this and be a part of that.

And I always felt like such an outsider in really trying hard to make people, but also looking back, protecting myself from letting people know too much. It's very relatable, yeah, for sure. And I think as well, I feel within the sober community that I find, there's a massive people-pleasing struggle that we have. And I certainly for myself, really struggled with that. I just wanted to like, especially because I felt like I stuck out for my bad skin and for being shy. And I was always like one of the tallest in the class, even like above the boys. And I always felt so awkward because of it. And I was like always slouching trying to make myself smaller. And then that kind of idea of making myself smaller definitely carried into being an adult in the sense of making my personality smaller to sit in with certain people to not be seen as being extra or like doing too much. And I think in Ireland there's a real, I don't know, there's a real culture of not really speaking about things. Just being like, oh, you're grand. Like it's fine.

It'll just brushing over things and not really talking about it. And if you do, sometimes it's seen as you're doing a lot. You're almost making a big fuss of yourself. And especially maybe for women to just tone it down, make yourself a bit more chill. So then that means that the emotions or the feelings that we have, they just, they've nowhere to go. So then we just kind of stick them down and down. And then obviously one day they've got to go somewhere.

So yeah, but I definitely relate to what you said about sitting in, making friends, looking around you and saying, why is it so much easier for everyone else? This is so difficult for me. And even I think I also am extremely sensitive. So if I perceived that someone was rejecting me, if I said, hey, can I sit down at this table like in high school? And they said, no, someone's sitting there. In my head, I'm like, they hate me.

They've rejected me. I'm so embarrassed. Like, I can never ask anyone again. And whereas other people would be like, okay, cool, I'll just find another chair. And I was always so jealous of how people could just be so comfortable with themselves that they were able to just let those things kind of wash over them and I couldn't. Yeah. Now, I'm with you on that too. Yeah, the rejection was tough, right? And it's

almost to the point. For me, anyway, I just stopped taking risks. You just stop putting yourself in the situation where you could potentially grow or potentially learn new skills or some resilience. I would just avoid those situations altogether. And I would just to the point at the end of high school probably, I was just to the point where I just hoped nobody saw me. I didn't want to, you know what I mean, go through that, right? Yeah. But yeah, it's an interesting thing. So moving through high school, I mean, you start drinking. And I've heard that too about, I had another lady on that it still lives in Ireland.

And she shared too, that was kind of the thing is let's just get through it. Let's not show anybody the emotions. And I mean, I think that travels in one way or another everywhere in a sense, right, that we're just looked at to just keep it together. Or when you're younger, like, how could things possibly be going that bad? Like, that's another thing, right? We're just kind of getting started in life. So you start drinking.

And it's really interesting with your story too because I struggled long before I started drinking. And then when I started drinking, I was like, aha, now we got something figured. Now we're cooking here with gasoline. I got something figured out. I feel like I can be seen in the world, heard in the world. And there's a level of importance here because when I go out and we party and we get together and we do all this stuff, everybody loved that person. And I was just like, let's just keep this rock. And it's interesting in your story too because it sounds like you struggled a lot before you kind of found your quote unquote solution to everything that was going on and that being uncomfortable in your own skin.

How does that look for you when things first get started? So I because I started going out when I still was like had that kind of like hyper obsession with exercise. And I remember being so socially awkward and I would just stand very like rigid. at the bar and be drinking water and be very like so self-conscious. So then when that all shifted and I started drinking, I remember just like the rigidness just shifted into like a lusiness. And the main thing I can remember is just not caring because I was always so in my head and like just so concerned about what everyone else thought of me, even though like we're so self-obsessed because a lot of people, they're focusing on themselves just like I am. And we're on like, we're on like, we're,

they are and whatever, but you're just so hyper sensitive and hyper aware of people like criticizing you or thinking that you're weird or whatever when you're younger. And I remember I just didn't care. I just didn't think about it. I was just like present in verbocomers in the moment. I was able to just have fun. And I think that my friends did enjoy that side of myself of me. In the beginning before I almost made a name of myself as someone who was like a mess. But in the beginning I was just very lighthearted and just having a good time. And I think very quickly I realized that I was just not able to control that lack of control. And it went from like lighthearted and who cares to like I don't care about myself and I'm a mess and I don't care what happens to me tonight.

And I don't really remember how quickly that shifted but I just think that it went pretty fast. Yeah, and I can remember a specific event. Because it was always just maybe I would fall asleep or I would just be a bit like silly. And then I remember we went on a Spanish exchange to Salamanca in Spain. And we'd never been away from home like this. It was our first ever like holiday without adults. And there was like a 10 tequila shots for size bucks or something. And it was just like, oh, what?

And I remember I think I attempted to drink all 10. and next thing I knew I woke up and I was in hospital in Spain and my slate was the next day. Things like that were it was fun until it wasn't and I don't really remember because I think it was just that quick of a switch for me, unfortunately. And I was going to say I should have known from the start but I just kind of thought this is me like Bambi on ice

trying to get my grips up. Maybe I'm just trying to figure out what my limits are and it'll all figure out but it never really did. Yeah. Because as we go through it, it seems like we want to keep the dream alive. Like we're going to make this work. And it even goes back to when you mentioned before with the meeting with the doctor, it's like, oh, you have a problem with drinking. We'll just drink less. And that solves your problem. I think by the time most of us get to the end of the road for the drinking thing, we've tried that and another 50 hacks to try to make this work out. So you're going through. So that happens fairly quick for you. What do you decide to do after high school? So yeah, the hospital didn't really scare me.

So my coping mechanism was massively self-deprecation through comedy. And I would like make posts about it on Facebook and take the piss out of myself and be like, oh, I'm just because I knew that other people were going to be criticizing it. So I wanted to get there first and be like, I'm aware of it. This is, I know. So that was like right on the brink. Then the last year of Sam school. And it's weird because when I, I guess, when.

you're starting to drink, you don't really get hangovers as bad. Like your body doesn't struggle the same as maybe when you get a bit or older or your drinking is further on. So I just always bounced back the next day, Sunday, bounce back, go to the gym, whatever else, and then Monday school. And I studied for my exams and I went to university in England for non-French. And drinking wasn't even a factor. It was kind of like a thing that I do sometimes on the weekend, but it just did not really impact my life that much that I thought. But when I went to university, the cycle continued. Unfortunately, I kind of threw myself in the university without really doing a lot of research on it. So I was in a uni that was quite posh. And a lot of the people were very

well off. And I find it quite difficult, especially within my course, to relate to other people. I often got kind of like comments about my accent, about, oh, did you get a scholarship to be here? Because they thought I was like a commoner, things like that. And it was just kind of, I always felt like I was the underdog. I had a Welsh friend and her and I were just always in the corner. Everyone else would get a glass with their wine. But they'd say, there's no more glasses. So we would be drinking it from the bottle. And they'd be like, oh, look at those savages. And we're like, it was almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but like they were helping to fulfill it. And in university, that's when my like drinking, like, cranked up. Like, I didn't enjoy my

course. I didn't want to quit because I knew that my dad specifically was really proud of me. And I just honestly couldn't bring myself to say, I can't do this. I don't want to be here. And yeah, I think I blacked out probably every night. This from the very beginning in first year, like, I made a kind of name for myself in a very negative way. within our university halls, like our residents. I'd be walking down and I'd be walking past people who are kind of like looking at me. And I have no idea who they are, but they saw me pass out half naked on the, you know, like really humiliating things that I wasn't even aware of because I feel like my brain

could not cope with all the stories. And often, like, it was never me hurting other people intentionally. Like I was never like aggressive or like getting into fights. it was more just me just completely neglecting myself and not eating the whole day and spending my money on like the alcohol for the night out and then waking up the next morning and literally having to check my arms to see if I had stamps because I had no idea whether I went out or not. And it never really hit me that this is scary because I feel like everyone else was moderating or else they were drinking excessively but they weren't blowing their lives up in the same way

that I was. So I just felt that I was like moderation is the only way I can get out of this. And that's when the kind of struggle for moderation like really started where I was like, that is my goal instead of anything else. Yeah. Wow. That's tough. And did you end up finishing the program then? Yeah, I finished. I did a year in France with my really good Welsh brand, which was really difficult and again, isolating. And then I did fourth year. and fourth year, I think when I have something to focus on, I find it a lot easier not drinking. So fourth year, I just threw myself into my exams and just like alcohol just took a complete backseat. And then I was able to finish and I did my, I got my degree. And then I was like,

great, next step, what I want to do with this? No idea. And then that was another kind of, I was always hoping that if I just did this, then it would figure out the rest of my next steps, but it never did. And it was like that constant feeling of what am I going to do next really played into me relying on alcohol, just still not worry about it. Yeah, no, that's powerful too. And after you finish the course, and a lot of people, I think, that go to school too, right? There's that pressure. Now you've done that. Yeah. All the money invested in that, whether it's loans or support from elsewhere. And now it's okay, what's the next step? Let's get this going. It's kind of time to quote unquote grow up.

It's time to get out there and start looking after ourselves. But it's also challenging too, right? To find our place and what we enjoy and what we want to do and to meet all those expectations. And you're already struggling up to this point in your life with working on pleasing everybody else and struggling with the self-love part of things and so much else. So how do you navigate this next chapter? So when I finished university, I did a couple of summers in America supporting a camp for kids who had like difficult like living circumstances. So we brought them out of New York City into like the upstate New York like beautiful scenery and taught them how to swim. And it was like a really like beautiful experience. And that was again tainted with drinking.

But that was exciting because I was starting to figure out, okay, I feel like I have a purpose. really like helping people. And although the drinking is kind of impacting, that's something that's keeping me going and I'm getting a lot out of it. So then when I went home, I lived with my parents and I think that was really difficult. I love living with my parents. But I think for me in terms of, I just felt like I was like a bum. And I was just like drinking. And that's when like the drinking kind of first started creeping into the next day. So I'd wake up. I would book a spin class for the next morning so that I would motivate myself not to drink too much. I would inevitably drink too much and then I would miss the spin class and have to pay the fee for not even going

to it. And there were times where I would be like day drinking like hair of the dog the next day and my mom would come home from work and be like, could you give me a list to somewhere? And I would have to just be like, I actually can't give you a lift because I know that in some countries driving under the influence. I know it's still illegal, but it's like, maybe a little bit more common, but in Ireland and the UK, it's very highly pleased, and it's just, you just would not drink dry. I don't know, she's been drilled into us from a young age. It wasn't even that I could just pretend or whatever.

I was almost like I had to admit I can't drive you, mum, because I've had a few ciders or whatever. And that was really difficult because then she was just like, what are you doing, drinking on your own? Like, what? And then that was when I started being like, what am I doing? Like, this is not, this is not good. And I think that also isolates you because when you're drinking.

then you can't go anywhere. So I was just like stuck in my house and I was just like, okay, I'm just like here, just self-deprecating. And then I think when I got the job in the prison for young people, so I did a master's in human rights and criminal justice. And through that, which I loved, it was probably the best year of my 20s and my drinking went way, way down because I just threw myself into it. And I loved it.

And then I got my job in the prison for young people. through that. And that was like a life-changing. And I think that because I worked, I'd say 90, 95% of the kids and the prisons had addiction issues, substance and addiction issues. And that's when I really started self-reflecting of, I'm supporting these kids and then I'm doing like similar things as soon as I clock off work. And I think for me, that's when I started really researching, looking into it. And it all kind of opened up for me. I think because I'd been on that moderation, had the moderation blinkers on, I never thought about the spectrum of addiction of how some people can use sometimes, but like really harm themselves. It's not just like a black and white or you can

moderate in that kind of way. So that was like really fascinating. And also one of the scariest things was how easy kind of like substantious can spread. So there'd be kids that would come into the center and they would hear the other kids talking about how much they love, like, certain, like, substances or alcohol. And they've never done it in their life. But hearing the, like, the thrill from the other kids, they, they know, are like, I want to try it myself. And then as soon as they get out, that's what they slip into. They're like, oh, my God, there's this amazing new coping mechanism that I can just, like, forget about my trauma. And you could just say it was so insidious, just spreading through I just by like word of mice because they weren't allowed to use or drink or anything in prison because it was like a secure facility.

But yeah, so it was really hard to see. Yeah. No, that is tough. That is tough. So you get this job and you do this master's program and you talked about it before too where when you have a purpose or a vision, then it's easier for you to keep things. It may be more under control and not not the stuff like it was in university. So you find this purpose. We talk a lot about this moderation phase too, about trying to figure it out, trying to find your place, your relationship with alcohol, where does it stand? What does it look like? And it's interesting there too because I think when a lot of us are wrapped up in it, there's the moderation thing. There's to keep going the way we're going. But I don't know if we give much thought in the beginning stages to that quitting is a possibility. Never.

a lot of us, yeah, and a lot of us in our lives don't have somebody around that maybe has quit. Some people do, which is great. But if you don't see it out there in the world, then maybe it's really hard to be something to come onto our radar. Is anybody else, you mentioned that your mom's making, you know, comments to about you're not being able to drive for what's going on here. You're drinking at home. Was there anybody else who mentioned like that, hey, maybe. you got to take a look at this, things with alcohol, or how did that go? There are a couple of times that maybe like at house parties in university and stuff that I would

wake up when I would have been sick all over someone's bed or things like that where they kind of say to you like, what's going on? Like this isn't cool or it's almost the humiliation and the shame. I would just then never speak to that person again. Just in order to deal with it, just completely complementalize my life. And I think as well, like I had a, like a partner at the time who was like a lovely person, but obviously knew that my drinking was problematic and didn't really know how to support me. It kind of enabled me. It wasn't like you should drink or whatever, but kind of just allowed me to continually keep messing up. And because of my kind of low self-esteem and stuff, I would be very, when I was drinking, I would have tried to push people away that I loved. So like said,

maybe nasty things to them to try and just get them to abandon me because in my head I was like they're going to do it anyway I want to just speed up the process and then you know really heartbreakingly like the next day Austin like he wouldn't even tell me and maybe some of my brother would be like you said this to him and it would all be covered up because we just all wanted to be okay and it's absolutely not okay and I think like even probably in my between 17 and 26 I think I was hospitalized for passing out to the point where no one could wake me up. I'd say about maybe eight to ten times. And at the start, I was like, okay, just no one knew about it for the most part because it was usually, I was on my own trying to walk home, trying to, I don't know,

and then I would sit down and be like, I'm going to take a break, and then I would just pass out. And then someone would find me and be like, this girl, is she dead? What's happening? And I remember, so in the north of Ireland, we're part of the NHS. So we have, like, our healthcare is, like, taking care off. So when you go into hospital, you don't have to pay for it. So I remember waking up in, like, the emergency room, maybe when I was, like, 23. And this, like, lovely woman was coming around with the breakfast and she had the corn flakes. And she was like, what would you like?

And I just remember being, like, I don't deserve your kindness. And I was looking around, and there were people that were, like, really hurt. And I was just there. and I felt so guilty and she was being so nice to me and I was like so ashamed. I was like, I'll take the corn flakes, but oh my God. And I feel like that all stemmed from just what you're saying there, but, you know, quitting was never an option. I never felt that I was like bad enough to deserve sympathy or to deserve proper help because I was able to drink on a Friday and Saturday, maybe have a few pints on a Sunday

and then just stop drinking Monday to Friday. So in my head I was like, it's almost like I felt like I had control over it. So I was making the decision to hurt myself. So therefore I didn't deserve help or for people to feel sorry for me because it was my choice to mess my life up. And I think that that guilt really stopped me.

That built into the shame of it all and like the hiding. And I was like, you know, because I'm not drinking every day, I don't deserve for people to support me. I don't deserve to try a program or to go to be in hospital because I'm going out on a Friday and I'm just drinking too much beer and passing out and then people are worrying about me and that's a decision that I'm making and I'm like, so I think that struggle was really difficult. Just trying to figure that out. Sorry, I can't even remember how I got on to that

with your first question, I just went on around. No, I mean, that's great. And I think that's the cycle we get caught up in. I mean, a few things there is the shame prevents us for asking for help. Yeah. And then the other idea is that things aren't bad enough. Yeah. I mean, if you look back at your story and you're sharing potentially eight hospital visits, the stuff in university, I mean, the drinking during the day, I mean, when you look back at it now, though, it must be clear as day that, hey, this thing was a lot further along

than maybe you had realized or wanted to admit at the time. Yeah. It's kind of a tough thing, right? because I think once we say, okay, this is a serious problem in my life, we're activating the subconscious to say, okay, I've got to start working on it. And if we're not being honest with it, I think it's easier to keep this train moving forward. And just like you mentioned earlier, too, which causes a lot more struggles for us as we're just bottling up all these emotions, not dealing with anything, not accepting accountability or responsibility in our life for the choices that we're making.

and putting ourselves in some really tough, risky situations. But when we're wrapped up in it, yeah, I mean, I get it. You're only drinking on the weekends. You're having a few too many. I mean, you're showing up at this job. You did this master's program. I mean, all these incredible things too in your life. And I think having those accomplishments as well might also increase your ability

to keep other people off your back as well. I mean, for me, people were on my back. I burn everything down to the ground fairly quickly. and I didn't have success in those areas. I was kicked out of college. I got evicted for my first apartment. I lost the car. First car, my parents bought me.

I lost that. I lost everything and I ended up living on my brother's floor. So it was really evident to everybody around me that my life was in rough shape. But even when I ended up in that situation, I still for a while thought I was living the good life out of a suitcase and the only food I had in the fridge was condiments. And I still believed that things were okay. And also the thing that I picked up on there, too, is that relationship you had where it was enabling in a sense to where there maybe wasn't the best boundaries.

I had a relationship like that as well where it was great. It was a lovely person. I mean, a beautiful human that didn't have a problem with addiction at all. Yeah. But it's a two-way street, right? Like, I think I searched out those people in my life. Yeah. Let things fly.

Like, I didn't necessarily want to connect with people. we're going to say, hey, dude, give you a head of shake. Look what's going on. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, but for me, it was a struggle in that sense, right? And then, I mean, of course, as the story unfolds, she went on her way. Like, a lot of times those things, the people eventually, I think, in my situation anyway, they kind of had enough.

How old are you, too, when you're getting this job working with the kids in the jail? I think I was 24 or 25. Okay. So that worked out well for you and you found some purpose there. love that part. And it's really difficult working with teenagers too. I worked at a rehab here in Ontario with teenagers for six years. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah, it's a big challenge. So you're working here and you're getting things a little bit figured out here a little bit with the drinking anyway and you're working here and doing good work, I'm sure. Yeah. No, I just wanted to say,

just when you said about rehab, one of the most moving things about working with those kids is seeing the difference in them when they came in to the prison and they were 90% of them on substances. Then they weaned off and then getting to spend time with them as their like authentic selves. And it was, I think that made me like, what am I doing? Like when I can see these kids, like they can't like, it was just, it was so beautiful being able to spend time with them when they're, you know, just themselves and they, they don't have those access to those substances. But while I was still working in the prison, I started seeing my most recent ex who I moved to Canada with. And he wanted to move to Canada with a group of friends. So although that job, it was a very good job, it was like a government, a pension, everything.

Everyone in the job was like, are you crazy? You're moving to Canada with this new guy. And I was like, yeah, it's the risk taker in me. And yeah, so I moved over in. quit and moved over in August 2019. And then as like COVID hit shortly after, but I had a couple of months. Again, very difficult. And I think at this time, I was very aware of my drinking. We'd been going out for maybe a year. And he was the first person that I'd been in a relationship with that was holding me accountable. So like the next morning was saying like, you're that dreaded, like,

you look over and you're like, learning. And they're like, we need to talk. and you're like, oh no. But he did, and he made sure that every time he was like, we need to talk about it, we can't just brush it under the carpet, which was in the moment horrific, but it really started getting my resolve up. And I remember towards the end of working in the prison, I came in one morning and I was hung over.

It was shit. And there was a guy there, and he was sober from drugs and alcohol for 10 years. And he came over to me, and he was like, Sal's, I can smell it off you. and I was so embarrassed and I was like this is disgusting I can't believe I've done this

and then one of our colleagues came in wearing the same clothes from the night before being like hey I didn't go to bed last night in the prison

it was just such a stark that used to be me and then this is me now of my journey of I used to make jokes out of it tell people about it be like look at me and now I'm in the stage

of being ashamed covering it up pretending I'm okay and then I want to get to the next stage of like actually doing something about it. So I think when I moved to Canada, it was too hard to hide anymore, like living with my partner, being away from home, living in a country where I didn't have any supports, I didn't know my surroundings. Like the drinking kind of amped up a bit, but I couldn't pretend that I wasn't drunk or I

wasn't drinking the next day. But I think at that point, and through COVID and stuff, it was hard. My anxiety was so high the next day that I would be like hiding drinks. I had these big snow boots and I'd have a bottle of wine in the snowboard. I would go over and just take little chugs. This would always be on a Sunday when like the anxiety was like through the roof. And my partner didn't know anything about this. Or maybe he did and he'd just afterwards.

But that's when it started being like I feel like I'm on the, at the breaking point of I can't sustain this. And just like with my eating, I was like, I can't sustain. and because I'm concerned that this is going to start trickling into, oh, then I'll just do it on a Monday. And then I'm in, okay, maybe Tuesday night. And I was like, I'm really worried about myself. So that's when I started doing like little periods of abstinence. So I started off with like dry January and then moved it into like dry January and February. And then I went back to drinking.

And then the cycle continued. But the little periods of abstinence really helped to get the ball rolling and build. up my confidence. What was it like? You were at that crossroads, right? And I think a lot of us go through it. And I remember those weeks or those days in my life to where I felt like I was at a tipping point in a sense. If I kept this going, I could potentially end up at a place where maybe there's no return. At the time, I felt no return. I mean, obviously there's always an option to quit. But I felt like that there was no return and the consequences were going to even build, like maybe more permanent consequences. Because up until the point, things had been, I don't even know if manageable is

the right word, but I survived it. I survived all the consequences. I mean, some of them barely. There's some things that I did or were involved with that I could fit a sheet of paper between me being alive and not being alive. And that wasn't enough. But I felt like towards the end that that I was going to be in a real permanent situation to where the consequences were going to last. And I knew if I kept going with it, I didn't know if I was going to make it back to the other side. And I had this little shimmer of hope, a little piece of hope left in me that maybe I could try to figure this out. And I love how you kind of started with that January and then that February. But what's the experience like when you have two months or so, say, not drinking?

and then you go back to it. So it's really strange because it's almost like you've been living, you've been on holidays or you've been living in someone else's house and you've had this whole life and you're so happy and then you have to go back to your own life and you're packing up and you're like, okay, back I go back to, it doesn't change, it's the exact same. And that's what it felt. I felt almost.

That was like two months of bliss. And now I go back to the life that I left. in December. And I always expected the first few drinks to be like, ooh, buzz in. And it was always a bit slut. Like, it just didn't really have the kick that I remembered that I thought that I was, like the high that I was chasing. There was that. And then there was then the cycle that just after a couple, you push through and after a couple of beers, you're back into, okay, this is the feeling, okay. And then I wake up the next morning, hung over and I'm like, oh, I forgot what this was like, And then by two weeks time, it's the same. And that was hard. That started in 2020 and continued 2020, 2021, 2021, on us. And having that little bit as like peace and like health and then going back to the exact same thing and like being even more disappointed in yourself because you've had the taste of what it could be like to be all set.

Yeah. I mean, that's the cycle, right? That's it in a nutshell. is that you get some time without drinking. And then you go back to it and we've built up the story in our head that it's just going to relieve all of our problems. And the most interesting thing I hear people share so often in many different ways is that alcohol stops working. It stopped working for what it once did, right? Covering up the insecurities, helping us feel less anxiety.

You shared about the anxiety you experience on Sundays and now you've got to drink because it's just progressively affects our mental health, our physical health, and literally everything that we're doing from day to day. And then you've just got to have more and more to get to some result. It's never going to be like it was. And I felt like in my life, I was chasing that forever. I wanted it to be like that first party I went to where it was the coolest thing. We were taking this juice out of this, this cooler and eating strawberries and stuff out of it. I can't even remember the night. But it felt like I belonged in the world for once. And I wanted that back. And I think I spent the next however many years trying to get back there.

And I don't think I ever did. And it's almost when you get further down the road, you mention there too. You force yourself through the first few. Yeah. To try to get there. It's like this forced thing that you just don't enjoy anymore. Yep. So 20 to 22, you're going through that cycle.

And it's a really tough cycle to go through because you also mentioned you've experienced a little bit about what it's not like to drink. And I love your description of it there. You're coming back from a holiday. And we all know how much that can suck it. Yeah. You know? So where do you go from there?

I mean, how do you get out of this? What's it like in Canada, too? Did you always live in Toronto when you came to Canada? Yeah. So we lived with a group of people when we first arrived. And then because of COVID and stuff, people moved home. And then my partner and I just lived by ourselves. But we were living like right downtown like opposite the Roger Center.

So it was very built up and industrial. So not really any nature. like things that I know we're quite close to the water but like it just felt like it didn't really belong there I wasn't happy and obviously it was COVID so like we couldn't you know it was a very small one bedroom apartment and we couldn't go anywhere like you couldn't leave the house unless she had a written thing about where you were going and I know Canada really especially Toronto really dragged out like the things opening up and that I think that affected like a lot of relationships and stuff because people just didn't have space. I can't just go to my parents on the

weekend. I don't have anywhere to go. And I think alcohol then I lent into it because I was like, I'm waking up on a Sunday. I feel like crap. My partner's kind of annoyed at me. There's nowhere I can go. So I go to LCBO. I get a couple of ciders. I sit out in the sun and then I'm okay. And then I have to go back and pretend that I just went for a walk. And I hated this feeling of lying. And even though It was almost like, what am I even getting out of this? I know it's taking the anxiety down a little bit, temporarily. But I'm going and I'm taking the substance secretly to then go back to my life. And I'm like almost an imposter in my own life.

And it all just felt so fake. And I think then the shame just kept amping up. And I was like, as I said before, like breaking point. And we did break up a couple of times. And that was really difficult as well because we broke up. But then we both had nowhere to go. so we had to just stay in the apartment. And then we obviously both very much cared for each other.

So it was that really awkward. You're trying to grieve, but the person is right there. And so then what do you do? You just pretend nothing happened. So it was like all feeding in, like all the kind of not being honest was all everywhere in my life. And I just felt just couldn't escape it. And then it got to 2022. And I was really getting into the running.

I really wanted to do the half marathon. And I think the big breakup happened in 21, like near the end, and that really shook me. And I remember going home for Christmas, and I just got wasted for a whole, like, long weekend. And then I got COVID. So I was forced to, like, self-isolate. And then my mom was like, oh, do you want some wine in the room and stuff? And I remember being, like, if I drink in this room on my own, that's not going to be good. And that was the first kind of decision where I was like, no, I'm okay.

and I broke the cycle a bit and I was like, okay, I don't know why I chose not to, but I know that it wouldn't make me feel good so I'm going to just get better and work through the emotions. So I was just stuck in my room working through the emotions.

And yeah, and then I came back in 2022 and we tried to work things out and I was sober from like January till May. And then I was like, okay, again, I think the really difficult thing is Irish people, maybe all cultures

but it's such a big part of our culture drinking that like you almost don't want to not be able to drink be able to invertic commas my partner made a comment once and it was a throwaway comment but it stuck with me forever he said when I said can you help me quit and he said but what if I want to be with someone who can drink

and I remember that I was like okay then I have to moderate it I have to be able to do it because I didn't want to lose him. I think even then, because we'd broken up when we were kind of back together, I was like, I can't mess this up. I need to be able to moderate it, but I can't do it. I just, it's not, I just can't do it.

So then I got really drunk. I think that might have been another hospital moment, which is, yeah, it's kind of like sad when it all blends into one and you can't really decipher. So then he was like, I can't do this anymore. We have to break up. And I remember, All I wanted to do was I'd be able to moderate or to be able to not be a mess or not drink for him.

And then we broke up and he left. And then that May, June, 2022, I finally realized I can't do it for him. I have to do it for me. And that's why it's not working. The moderation, the abstinences that go back into the cycle, that's why it's not because I'm not doing it for the right reasons. I'm doing it to keep someone. I'm not doing it because I want it for myself. And if I think about all the reasons why I did drink, it's because I didn't care about myself.

And this is the time that I have to start caring. And especially when I was sitting with these big emotions, I was like, he's not here. And like, what can I do? I can just drown them out with alcohol. No, we're not doing this. So I think that's when I decided I needed to make a decision. And I don't know if it's strange or not, but I decided that I turned 30 in August 29th, 2022. And I said, okay, I've got the summer. My parents are coming to visit. I'm kind of getting

over a breakup. Like, it's a lot to just, I don't think I can do it right now, but I'm going to quit for my 30th birthday. And that's what I did. Wow, what an incredible birthday present for 30. Yeah. I was like, I can't bring this into my 30s. Yeah. What does it look like? I mean, leading up to that, are you nervous or are you overthinking? this thing or what was that process like? So leading up to it again like I think my ex and I were still kind of like dipping in and out of like contact and he was like why can you not just quit now and I was like I'm doing it for myself so I need to do it on my own terms and he couldn't really understand it and then my parents came to visit and I actually got a kidney infection so I was on really strong

medication for the first half of their trip so I couldn't drink and my parents would be quite my especially, it would be quite like he's on holidays. He wants the wine. He wants the beers. But it was so lovely having that time, just like the holiday, not drinking. And then after I was able to get off the medication, I had that stupid cycle. I was like, I've only got two months left to make the most of drinking. So one night, we were in Montreal and I got absolutely bongued. And my parents got a phone call from the hotel manager. and had to come down because they found me in the elevator and they couldn't wake me up and they called the police.

And then I woke up and I was really distressed. So the police were trying to camp me down. So they put me in handcuffs. So I was in handcuffs with my parents on holidays. And I was like, and it was such a juxtaposition because the whole two weeks earlier, I was like had the best time ever. And then it was a reminder of this is why we don't,

I don't want to, this is why I can't continue doing this. And it's weird. because the only other time I've ever been involved with the police was when I was about 19 and I tried to split from a taxi because I was sick in it. And I was like trying to run away in heels and I bumped into this guy. And I was like, you need to move. I'm trying to split from this taxi.

And it was a policeman. And he was like, no. So then he arrested me or took me and I was sick in his police car as well. So then we got to the station. It was like, oh. And then I was like, you couldn't make this up. And then my parents had been drinking because it was a Friday night. So they had to come and collect me, but they couldn't drive.

So they had to get like a 50 pounds, like, taxi to one way. My mom had to clean out the police car. And then they had to bring me home. So those were the two times that I've been involved in the police. And my parents have been there for both of them. And I was just like, good Lord. And I was reminded of that previous time because there was so much guilt and shame of being sick and, you know, trying to split from the taxi and all.

And my parents were just like, it was strange because even then the next day, they were like, we were out for lunch and they were like, do you want a beer, do you want a glass of wine? And I was like, I was nearly arrested last night. But I think for them, or maybe Irish culture, it's, it was just one off. Do you know, that kind of? But for me, I was like, it's not a one-off, this is it. And although I could have been like, well, I need to make the most, I need to keep drinking.

I'm really nervous. I think that happened in like mid-July and that made me able to just then do the rest of the summer in peace knowing that I was making the right decision. Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's interesting too, right? Because other people might have that perception your parents. It's just a one-off, but you've been there for many more that they might not know. Yeah. Right? So like in the back of our mind, we're just like, that might be a one-off thing that you've seen, but a lot of other stuff has went on that you might not know about. So you make that decision. I mean, what do you do like your first day that you're not drinking? I mean, how do you make this thing stick? How long has it been now then?

A year and a half, I think, maybe just a bit more. Yeah. I was actually on holidays in Punta Cana. So I had done the all-inclusive. Like, you know, when you're in that cycle of just drinking and sleeping and I probably didn't even see the light of day. I was just in the bar and in bed. So then the first day, I got a massage. I was probably, a little bit hungover, but I was really hopeful. And then when I moved back to Toronto, I moved out on my own. And I actually had a series of like very difficult living situations, but until I find the place where I am now. But the first kind of six months, I was like a recluse. Like I did not really go out. I think that's when the breakup really hit me. And I started to grieve it and all the emotions and all the

guilt and all the shame that I'd been like holding down. Even in those periods of abstinence, I wasn't really able to tap into them because it was just so in cloud. But this was when it was like, this is reality now. And I really struggled. And I know that I would struggle going out because I would just be bitter that people were drinking and I wasn't. And then like probably in the new year I met with a friend from the Toronto sober community and she encouraged me to start like a sober Instagram to share and be part of it, the community and stuff. And, and that's what I did in March of last year and it's completely changed my life and like my whole perspective of like sobriety and connected me with such amazing people and that's been like

the main thing of me keeping like accountable obviously like for myself but like being able to share with others and make people feel like they're not alone as you do with your podcast and sharing people's stories like that is there's so much power in that and that's such a beautiful thing to be part of. Yeah, that's incredible. I love that. You started sharing and maybe over time as you share and open up, it's kind of a way to get things out there, but it's also a way, I don't know if you can relate, but when I was wrapped up in it, I just felt like I was the only one. Like I felt everybody else had it together or they didn't, but I didn't see kind of what happened behind closed

doors and people in some ways or others thought I had it together. And it was far from that. I was lying on the inside. I felt so alone and so terrible on the inside. And I think when we put our stories out there, that we just let other people know that, like, they're not alone, that they've been through a lot of stuff and that there is a way out of all of this. And continuing on the journey, like you mentioned in your story,

so many times. Every time you go back, it turns out to be the exact same thing, if not worse, and a lot quicker than we ever expect, right? We think, well, we're going to ease back into. to it. I mean, you talk to like about a saw a post that you did too about loneliness, early sobriety can be lonely. I think a lot of people go through that. I'm wondering your thoughts on that. And as well as like sobriety isn't fun if that's something that you kind of had to work through. And you know what?

At the beginning, I think we get into this and it's like it's sober. Everything's going to be great. But you know what? It might be a little boring at first because we're not getting the dopamine hits that we're used to. Yeah. Or maybe not going out as much. I mean, what was that experience like for you? I think that I lost some friends that were probably only friends with me because I greenlighted them and they greenlighted me in terms of drinking. Like, oh, we're going to get fucked up tonight? Yeah, like that kind of friendship. So those kind of fell away. And then sometimes with some of my friends, they didn't really know how to socialize with me.

They're like, oh, should we go for a drink? Oh, no. And I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. They just were a bit uncomfortable about like how our, relationship is going to evolve. But for the most part, like, most of my good friends have just been incredible. And it's shifted in a way of I don't really enjoy clubs and stuff because I'm a bit socially awkward and I can't really dance. So that kind of situation's a bit like, so I prefer

settings. I'd prefer to go to the pub and have a Diet Coke and chat to people and be able to talk and listen. So it's just figuring out. Because when you're drinking, it's hard to see what you actually enjoy and what, like, doesn't really work for you because you're just numbed to every. thing. So now I've just been able to be like, okay. And you know what? I have become a bit of a homebody. And I know that for me, going out and stuff is a lot more special. So when I do have a night out or go out for dinner or go for like mocktails or whatever, it's more of, I put more importance onto it instead of just I would have gone to anywhere. I was like, where's open in Toronto? I'll go to LCBO and sit outside it. I don't care. So now my time is more important. So if I'm like, especially

because of my work. If I'm really struggling emotionally, I'm like, right, do I need to go out right now or do I need to just kind of sit and process this and just take some space? But you're right, it did feel lonely. And I think especially that's why I've completely stepped away from my personal Instagram and I just started using my like sober account just because the FOMO, what you said at the start of these like highlight readings of like people drinking and, oh, like pour in champagne and everyone's like, who.

And I would find myself like being jealous and being like, I can never do that. Like I'm so sad. And I was like, I don't need to see all of this. So I've just kind of been able to step away from that and focus on what actually brings me joy and what actually is real. But yeah, and you're right. Once you stop drinking and stop like blowing your life up, it's kind of like weird because you're like, I'm so used to the drama. I'm used to people being annoyed at me all the time. So I'm like, why has no one annoyed at me?

It's because I haven't done anything. Because I haven't tried to cause complete havoc. So it is just a change of relationships and like how your, like your use of time is such, I guess. Yeah. I love that. There's so many things there. And finding out your identity because I think a lot of our identity gets tied to the usage. Yeah.

It's tied to those relationships. And it's interesting too because a lot of people are worrisome about what am I going to do in my relationships. What I found is that some of them, they just didn't work out in the beginning. Some of them I tried to work out. And a lot of them just naturally, we just drifted apart. Not for better or for worse. It's just they had different interests.

I was moving this way in my life, like awkward, trying to improve and progress and find new hobbies. And a lot of people wanted to do this same thing, kick it and watch football all Sunday and drink. And nothing changed, right? And it's not, I'm not like, hey, don't do that. People want to do that. Do your thing. Yeah. But I'm not really one to just hang out and watch other people drink.

And it's funny about nightclubs and stuff too. And at home too. I mean, that's kind of what I enjoy doing is that stuff. I get enjoyment from a lot different things in sobriety than what I did before. And I was used to that chaos. I think like what you kind of touched on, right? Things were so chaotic. Things not being chaotic was so weird.

I loved going back a little bit here before we wrap up. Was that making the decision, it seems, was really a powerful thing. Because before you were kind of on that seesaw, right, of here, there, here, there and then you make that decision, an ever powerful decision in your 30th birthday, I'm going to give this thing all I got. And I think that's where a lot of people struggle because they want to keep it alive. We want to keep the dream alive to make it work because we're worrying about these other things you're talking about, my friends, my relationships, what am I going to do?

But I mean, those initial six months were tough for you, but it seems like just from seeing what you're up to, things have really exploded for you. I mean, share like how you have been able to have fun and how you've been able to meet new people and really lean into a better life for yourself. Yeah, so like I was saying just earlier, I loved my ex so much that I wanted to quit for him. But then when we broke up and he moved on,

I was like, listen, kids to myself, you're all you got. You have to do this for you. And that's when the whole perspective changed of what do I want to do. and leaning into a lot of people my age, I'm 31, turning 32 in August, are like putting money down for houses and they're having babies and they're getting married and I'm not at that stage yet.

And I was putting a lot of pressure on myself being like, oh my God. And I think drinking help because then I was like, oh, I'm a party girl. But now I'm like, now that I'm not doing that, I was like, right. So that's not where I'm at. What do I want to do? And I think traveling has been like an amazing thing for me to, and especially breaking the stigma. You can travel on your own

and you can travel sober. And I did, well, seven weeks in South and Central America just recently. Kind of like the abstinence thing. I did a week in Mexico, like two years ago. Then I did a week in Copenhagen, a week in Vancouver. So I built it up, built up the confidence.

And then I did, I was like, okay, ready to go in, and did seven weeks, traveled on my own and just met, like, amazing people. And obviously there is a struggle of a lot of the social events are pub girls and boozy nights, booze cruise, booze cruises, which was a bit difficult in terms of finding things to do. But that in my head, I'm just like, that just creates more space for people to come up with exciting, non-alcoholic or sober events.

It's not, oh, there's nothing, oh, what are we going to do forever? Maybe I could create something. I've seen in Miami there, there's like a sober dance party that they're having. And there's just so many amazing things that, like, you can do. And, like, obviously, traveling, it's a bit different, you know, in those countries. But I was able to connect with people. Like, I met two really good friends on a walking tour. And we sat in the afternoon after the walking tour, drinking water.

And, like, literally crying, laughing because I was telling some of my stories. They were sharing theirs. And we were just, like, connecting completely without alcohol. And we were all saying, this is so. lovely and you can do it. It's just allowing yourself to be open to creating those opportunities because a lot of people are like, oh, I couldn't do it. I'll just wait till the pub tonight. And you're like, no, you can do it after a walking tour. You can do it like when you're grabbing coffee in the morning. There's so many opportunities to connect with people and vibe and laugh. It was just those

belly lasts were just like something I thought I would only ever be able to have when you're like size pints in in the pub. But it was just a beautiful, it was a beautiful moment. Yeah, that's incredible. Seven weeks solo trip. I mean, I'm thinking if somebody's listened to this episode and they can relate to your story and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people and they're struggling to get or stay sober. What would you mention to them? So when I was in university, I think that I would have, all I wanted was for someone to be able to relate to and to be able to just say you can do it and you can have a really cool life and a really cool life. and a really beautiful, colourful, fun, wholesome, thrilling. Like all the things that maybe you were trying to seek out of drinking, you can have all of that in sobriety just without the consequences and without the self-harm and the broken relationships

and everything else that kind of comes with it. And it is possible. And honestly, I never thought I would quit drinking. That's the tea. As an Irish woman who grew up. in binge drinking in a family, like an extended family of people who love getting steam in. I never thought I would do it. But just try it. And I think that's the beautiful thing. Like, anyone can take a break or they can try and put effort into taking a break. And even just,

that is just such an opportunity to see and to prove to yourself, yeah, I can do it and also see the benefits to come with it. Because I think just going cold turkey for a lot of people is very difficult. And I think that if you just give yourself, like, one day at a time. I know we always say that in the sober community. It doesn't have to be forever. But if you just take it one day at a time and give it a go, I was like zip lining. And I was just like what, like I was in like an Irish pub on a Wednesday morning like drinking like a pride diet Coke or something and just like chatting to the guy. And I was just like watching the sport on the TV. And then I was like, right, I actually have to catch a bus here up to Guatemala. So I need to like head.

If that would have been me drinking, I would have missed my bus. You'd have peeled me off the floor that afternoon. So you can still have such an incredible life. It's just alcohol is not the be-all and end-all. And I just wish more people knew that. And I feel like the younger generation coming up are kind of clicking on to that, whether it's for health reasons or whatever. But I just wish that I'd known that.

And especially, like, it's different speaking to someone who's never drank, which is amazing for an incredible achievement. for whatever reason. But when I was younger, I just always wanted to meet someone who had drank and who had said, that's enough. And so that I could be like, oh my God, that's like my story and be able to relate. So I hope that it helps. And it's such an incredible thing that you're doing. Brad, to share these stories. And I think relatability and realizing that you're not alone and like hearing things. And you're like, oh, my God, I did that. I feel like that. And it's just so powerful. So thank you. Yes. Thank you so much for jumping down here.

Before we sign off, though, is there anything else you want to mention your Instagram account where people can check out more of your stories and stuff? Yeah, so my Instagram is at Sacked the Sauce. Yeah, I just share traveling, being silly, like glam, running. Yeah, just many things, just like we all are. We're all so different. We all have so many things like going on in our lives. And I just hope that it's a space where people can relate and feel like that they're not

alone and that there's hope. because there is. Yeah. Yeah, so true. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Brad. Well, there it is, everyone. Thank you again for checking out this episode. My goodness, so much stuff in this story that I could relate to. And I know a lot of you are going to be able to relate to as well. I mean, the moderation, hamster wheel in and out, in and out, and things just not working out and things often getting worse. Like when we go back to drinking, I know a lot of people can relate to that. Thank you guys for checking out another episode. I'll drop Sazas as contact information or Instagram.

Down in the show notes below, I encourage you if you got something out of this episode, take a few minutes out of your day, send her a note, let her know thank you. It's definitely not easy to jump on here and share your story. And for anybody out there who's struggling or still trying to find your way, I can't encourage you enough to come and check us out on Sober Buddy. We did this thing today where we did this exercise. you write a goodbye letter to alcohol. And people share it in the meeting, and my goodness,

let me tell you, it was emotional, it was powerful, it was moving, it was brave, it was really doing the hard work. And these are the things that help us heal. So I'll drop the link as well to a free 30-day trial to the Suburbuddy app, come and hang out with me three times a week at the meetings I host. And we have some other incredible host as well.

I would love to see you there, meet you, and see what's going on in your life. But that's it for now, and I'll see you on the next one.