Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Forged in Fire: Jess’s Sobriety Story

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

In this powerful episode of the Sober Motivation Podcast, Brad sits down with Jess, who shares her raw and honest sobriety story. Jess opens up about childhood trauma, sexual assault, military service in the Air Force, prescription drug addiction, Ambien misuse, alcohol dependence, and the moment that nearly ended her life. Jess also shares what it took to rebuild from the ground up — treatment, sober living, a complete life reset, and the mindset shift that helped her move from victim to survivor. Today, Jess is approaching 9 years sober and is finishing her PhD in psychology with a focus on addiction and recovery. This episode is a powerful reminder that addiction can hide in plain sight — and that long-term recovery is possible, even after unimaginable pain. Jess On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessosborn0824/

Welcome back to Season 4 of the Super Motivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, I sit down with Jess, who shares her raw and honest sobriety story. Jess opens up about childhood trauma, sexual assault, military service, and the Air Force, prescription, drug addiction, ambient misuse, and alcohol dependency. and the moment that nearly ended her life.

Jess also shares what it took to rebuild from the ground up, treatments sober living in a complete life reset, and the mindset shifts that helped her move from victim to survivor. Today, Jess is nine years sober and is finishing up her PhD in psychology with a focus on addiction and recovery. This episode is a powerful reminder that addiction can hide in plain sight and that long-term recovery is possible. Now let's get to Jess's story.

I also want to give a heads up that in the, this episode, Jess shares her experience of suicide attempts and sexual assault. So just be mindful when listening. Welcome back to another episode of the sober motivation podcast. Today we've got Jess with us. Jess, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Yes, I'm doing well. I'm excited to jump into your story. And what was it like for you growing up? So growing up, I have a lot of trauma. I was, which I talked very openly about, I was molested when I was four by a Daisy's leader, which is like before Girl Scouts, before Brownies was Daisies. But my mind blocked it out until I was 15 and I was having like my first sexual experience.

And then all of a sudden I had all these memories come back to me and I remember like asking my parents like, hey, was there this guy around with like red hair and I was wearing like a blue smock thing? and they showed me pictures. And so that's when I realized that, like, that trauma actually happened to me. Then when I was 10, my mom and dad separated for a little while. And while they were separated, my uncle had come to stay with us. And he was a heroin addict. And he would cause physical violence to my mom and to his girlfriend at the time.

And it was very chaotic. and then my mom actually attempted suicide at that time and I was like the only one home and I didn't realize she was attempting suicide. I just thought she was really sick. And then when my dad couldn't get a hold of her, he came to check on her and she went into the bathroom and had slitter wrists and had attempted suicide. So that was all very traumatic for me. It was very chaotic in my house growing up um and then when i was 15 a guy climbed through my window and sexually assaulted me and when we called the police um the police didn't come to like they didn't do any figure prints or anything like that they just really they asked me are you sure you weren't just caught making out

with your boyfriend so this starts to cement like something in my mind that it's just something that's supposed to happen to me. So when I was in high school, I was like looking for my identity and I became known as the girl who did ecstasy at the time. It was the late 90s, 1997. And that I felt like I had arrived, which now like being a grown up is very sad. But that was like my identity, the girl who did E. And I felt like people knew who I was because of that. And that was amazing. And then I had like fear dictates everything in my life. So my two biggest fears, are my fear of not being good enough and my fear of being alone. So because I was scared of getting rejected from college, I never even applied to college.

So I knew that I wasn't going to leave or really do anything. So there was nothing really going for me at the time. So I was like partying a lot. It wasn't super crazy, but, you know, doing keg stands, blacking out. And I was going to community college, but not like attending classes. And then I would go to Temple University in Philly, and I wasn't a student of Temple, but I would go there to, like, party. And I was roofied there. And then, so nothing was really happening for my life.

I couldn't hold a job. I couldn't do anything. And my dad told me that I had to get a full-time job or I had to go in the military. So I was like, okay, I bet I'll go in the military. So I went and talked to the Marines. And I came home and I was like, I'm going to be a Marine. I'm going to have a sword. It's going to be amazing because that was like what was on the commercials.

and my parents are like, you're not going to be a Marine. Let's go talk to the Air Force. So we went and talked to the Air Force. And then three months later, I left for basic training. I mean, to see where you're at today and in what you went through, man, that's a lot. Not relatable to me on any level, but it really makes sense sort of the chaos. And then maybe the ecstasy, you kind of coming home or finding some sense in that. Those fears you shared there, too, are very real.

I mean, a lot of people share those things and then other ones as well, too. Did you grow up in the Philly area? Yeah, so I grew up in a place called Levittown. I was born in Brooklyn. My parents still consider themselves from Brooklyn, even though they haven't lived there in, like, 40 years. But I consider myself from Levittown. So I am a diehard Philadelphia Eagles fan. And, like, it's obscene.

But yeah, so I grew up in Levittown, I should say, just for the record, my parents did the best that they could, you know, and my whole childhood wasn't chaotic and filled with drama and stuff. You know, my parents are still married. I have a brother who's three years younger than me. You know, I didn't necessarily want for anything. We weren't, we didn't have like a lot of money, but we had what we needed and they did the best that they could. But when I was. newly sober if you would have asked me or had we talked about my family, it would have been a different story. Right. So like the farther removed I am from the chaotic lifestyle I was living, the more clear the past becomes. And I'm also a mom of like grownups and I know I just tried to do the best that I could. So I want to make sure that I say that for the record that they did the best that they could. Yeah. Thank you for that too. And, you know, a lot of people that come on the show, there's different you know ways people kind of grow up and some are exposed to substance use some

aren't and still in one way or another can find themselves struggling with it which is always interesting because you you seem to see a lot of heavy traumatic stories on intervention or everything with growing up but it really doesn't discriminate about who can be affected any early childhood memories like you went through a lot of stuff did you get any support either for any of this stuff that you went through? So I went to therapy after the assault happened in my house. And I remember so people not taking me very seriously. And that was very difficult for me.

And it wasn't something that was like talked about a lot. The stuff that happened to me when I was four, nobody talked about. Like, I went to my parents, I asked them about it, I told my mom what happened. I don't think my dad ever really accepted what had happened or believed what had happened. It wasn't something we ever talked about as a family. After the assault happened in my house, I can't remember us ever talking about it as a family either. Still, to this day. So it was, I got outside support, but I just never really.

really felt seen or heard. Yeah. That's got to be really heavy to try to figure out at that age or at any age, really. Yeah, I think you just get used to like burying it. So you build up this wall around you. Like, yes, that happened, but now what? Because I can't do anything to change it or to fix it. So that actually happened to me in the military too.

And this was something I didn't talk about until just a couple of years ago. Like, nobody in my life knew that this had happened because I enlisted in 2000. So before 9-11 and all of that, nobody was really talking about sexual assault in the military during the early 2000s. It's become like a very open issue now, but in the early 2000s, nobody talked about it. So I was stationed in England and my husband was deployed and I was like partying at the club, which, you know, if you're going to be an alcoholic, there's no greater place to go than in the military because that's like very accepted. You're like partying until two in the morning. You sleep for a couple hours and then you go do PT in the morning. But there was one night where somebody had followed me home and I lived right off base.

and they viciously beat me and viciously sexually assaulted me and raped me and I never told anybody about it. I took leave until like the outside healed up a little bit. And because I was a sergeant at this point, I didn't want my troops to know, you know, that I was weak or that this had happened to me. I didn't want leadership to know that this had happened to me.

So it was something I really kept to myself and didn't tell a soul until about four, maybe five years ago. So I ended up getting divorced from that husband because when he got back, I wouldn't let him touch me. And that obviously is not great for a marriage. And I had this big secret. So we got divorced. I had gotten married a little while after that.

And we were married for 12 years. and I never told him about it, never told my parents about it. Nobody in my life knew about it until four or five years ago. Wow. And that's kind of like, because of what I had learned kind of growing up, it just cemented that this is like something that's supposed to happen to me. So nobody cares. Nobody cares that it happened.

So why am I going to tell anybody? It just makes me look weak. So I built up this like hard shell around me and carried on. Yeah. Would it be safe to say that things have softened up since? I think in some areas, things have softened a little bit. But I think I'm still, there's still some portions of me that I don't know will ever change. Like I'm not a big hugger.

I have to know you for a while. in order for me to like hug um and i just have this kind of demeanor you know the r bf right um but i i have this like when i first got sober people called me pop tart because i was like hard on the outside but soft on the inside and now people call me like an intensive care bear which is funny because i have like care bears back there um where like it's it's hard for me to allow people to get to know me but once they do and you're in like i will do whatever i can for you like i will stop everything um but i'm a hard person to kind of get vulnerable and allow you to really get to know me which is um i i i definitely understand that which kind of has got me a little bit interested

on us meeting here and sharing this with that with everybody and i know it's not going to be every detail and that's not the whole purpose of it too but I think maybe stepping outside of your comfort zone a little bit is really cool. Thank you. Yeah, I'm trying to break that persona because I wish that there was somebody's story that I would have heard that resonated with me before I got to the really bad places. So I'm trying to kind of break the mold and be more vulnerable and have people get to know me so that that kind of persona that I have built where I'm a difficult person to kind of let it. can go away. Yeah, it's all about that growth and sort of furthering the healing process.

And what you mentioned there, a lot of those stories too, as much as it saddens me to even mention it, I've heard it a lot on the podcast, stories like that of these types of situations happening. And then it's sort of turtling, right, not sharing with other people feeling like it's not relevant or even sharing it with people and then not believing it or sharing with people. and then somehow feel like people have shared with me too that they were blamed for something happening like this. And I think you sharing about it too

could potentially maybe open up somebody else to share it with somebody they love or somebody they trust. Because I feel like too, we put on armor because of situations that happen in life and we put on all these layers of armor. And at some point they do serve us maybe to protect us in one way or another.

And then I think there's this spot we reach in life to where what once protected us could be holding us back from maybe healing or the next level or in, you know, building relationships and different things. So I really appreciate you, you know, being so open with what you've been through. Thanks. I think it's a lot like, so I wasn't born this way, right? I was made this way. I was like forged in the fire as corny as like that is.

but if I'm made to be a certain way, then I can also unmake those things about myself, which is something that, like, I had talked to my sponsor about. I got a new sponsor in April or May, and I was like, I am approachable, I promise. And she's like, well, then you have to do something to like let people know that you're approachable. So this is kind of like one of those things where I'm trying to, you know, put myself, out there a little bit more, which means that there's a chance of getting hurt, of course, you know, or not being understood, but there's also a chance that maybe it'll reach somebody

and because of that, you know, maybe something will happen good in their life. Yeah. Yeah. And there's always sort of those two sides of the coin, right, of being helpful for somebody or maybe unlocking it that somebody has had something they've wanted to share for a long time. and they haven't in maybe hearing somebody else be brave about it and have that courage in the healing process to share about it could definitely help you join the Air Force we got to get that right and you know you mentioned this too of like an alcoholic a good place to hide out a good you know sort of environment is that something in that space in your life that you know it's was acceptable and maybe kind of fueled it or pushed it forward at all so it was definitely

acceptable. I mean, when you're young, I would say that even alcohol or I would say maybe some other behaviors. So I was very good about like, I didn't touch a drug the whole time I was enlisted, you know, because if there's structure, I can thrive in structure. I think the military was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I also, I say like recovery and the military are the two greatest decisions I made in my life and both of those decisions were kind of forced on me it wasn't something I chose um which is not lost on me but so while I'm in the military and I'm drinking with like the girls and partying as long as I'm still going to work and I'm still showing up nobody cares you know it's like all right you I'm not driving while I'm under the influence or

anything like that so it's not problematic behavior um you know and it's like a college experience So when I first enlisted, I was living in the dorms with a bunch of other young people. Everybody's having sex with everybody. Climedia was going around like crazy. You know, it's exactly like a college experience. It was just, you know, maybe a little bit more serious than some college experiences where, you know, when 9-11 happened, I remember we were in full chemgear, you know, head to toe. And I was stationed in Delaware at the time. so kind of like right in the middle of all of the hubbub um you know and that's when the military

became serious it was like oh like no i can actually go off to war somewhere and like die like that was a very um eye-opening experience because when i enlisted there was no war going on it was just you know a job i got to wear a cool uniform to um but when 9-11 happened it like flipped the script for everybody i would say Yeah. How long were you in the military for? So I was in the military for eight and a half years. I was, I would be in today, though, if they would let me. I got medically retired, which is kind of where my whole story with addiction kind of really spirals. So I had endometriosis, which is a super painful condition for

women were like black spots form in your uterus. I had had multiple surgeries to have it removed. And I was on a lot of pain medication. So the military couldn't deploy me anymore. So they medically retired me. And I had also been prescribed Ambien at this point because years before the pain with the endometriosis, I had had some suicidal ideations after being raped and not telling anybody about it. So I had like turned myself into a psych ward. And because I had difficulty sleeping, they prescribed me Ambien. So I was on Ambien on and off mostly on for like 15 years. So I loved Ambient. Ambien is my drug of choice. I always thought that that made me sound like a sissy, you know, but it's also Eminem's drug of choice. So now I feel super hard because I'm like me and Eminem.

we love some Ambien because basically it makes you like if you fight through the first 10 minutes please don't do that anybody but if you fight through it it makes you basically like blackout drunk for me anyway so I wouldn't remember anything I did on Ambien I've driven on Ambien I've cooked bacon on Ambien I would have like whole ice cream cakes on Ambien wake up with ice cream all over me very sexy um you know just a mess like I was a sloppy drunk basically on that medication So when the military retired me, I lost my sense of purpose and who am I, like my identity because I was good at being a sergeant. I had no idea who Jessica was. So I wasn't one of those chicks growing up who was like, oh, I just want to be a mom and like scrapbook and all of those things.

And like that was not who I was. I am a tomboy. I like I said, I love the Eagles. I like to watch UFC. see. I'm not very girly at all. So when I was just my husband's wife and my kid's mom, that was not entertaining for me. So my depression got really bad. And I was going to all of the psychiatrist appointments and the therapy appointments and I was taking all of the meds. I think I've been on like every type of depression med or antipsychotic or mood disorder or any of those things um and nothing was working and it would be like a gradual decrease in my mental health it wasn't like I got retired and then boom was like super depressed and suicidal and a drug addict it was like this very slow progression but it was miserable my husband would ask me all the time like

what do you have to be so sad about we're married we have these kids we have this house and I was like I don't know I don't know what I'm sad about I just know that I am filling out those like screeners when you go to therapy like on a scale one to 10 how much do you want to die and it's like 50 you know like I would see people smiling and I'm like that's weird like how are you doing that I don't understand it um so that is when I would take my my very real suicide attempt in June of 2016 that was in 2016 so at this time you you're you have a family then too you get you get this medical discharge and then you have kids at this point i have three yeah is your is is your husband in the military too he was yeah so that he's currently my second ex-husband but we were

still married at this time and yes he was in the military but he also was suffering the consequences from me being so um not okay mentally and because i was like in my addiction like i was using pills all of the time. I was taking Ambien. Like, as soon as I put the kids on the school bus, I was taking an ambient. So, like, I would sleep the entire day because that was the only time my brain would shut off. So he's now getting consequences because he has to take care of me or I have to go, you know, to different doctor's appointments or I can't take care of the kids. So he has to. So he really paid a price for my mental health and addiction as well. Yeah, for how things were going to. What were the conversations kind of with the doctor?

and therapists about too of like they know sort of how things were going for you or no yeah i i they had to right because like i wasn't i don't think i was lying right so i now that i i'm trained as a therapist like i know that there's a difference in actively lying and lying so i was probably lying to them but i wasn't aware that i was actively lying to them i probably was saying like, okay, on a scale of one to ten, maybe I'm a six today, you know, but they knew the medication wasn't working because my meds kept getting upped or they kept trying different combinations. So they were trying their best to help me too.

It was just nothing, but they didn't know about my drug addiction. I will be very clear about that. They did not know about that part. They did know my mental health wasn't getting better, but I don't think that they knew why my mental health wasn't getting better. Yeah, that there was maybe another piece of the puzzle, too. Right. Yeah, I mean, we only know what we know at certain times, right?

Like, we look back in hindsight's 2020 and say, oh, now I can kind of see things differently. But at that time, that makes so much sense that you're telling them what you're aware of. You know, because, yeah, hearing all of this, you can kind of wonder, too, has anybody else picking up on it, too, but they only know what you're, sharing and they believe they're helping in doing the best but there was this other side of things this other you know this other addiction or other stuff you were consuming too the ambient is is an interesting thing too because i can't recall anybody that they've shared anyway that they've had

a you know that a struggle like that with ambien but it's definitely a really you know really real thing um for sleeping medication for sure yeah yeah ambient i always say is the love of my life and then opiates strong number two and then when you combine them together forget about it like you're off the rails and what about drinking i mean is that is that in your life at all or no yeah so if i run out of my ambient early which i do because i abuse it of course um i want those same effects so then i'm taken bottles and nightquil to the head or i'm just outright drinking um i was raised knowing that my maternal grandparents were alcoholics. So it was very much like ingrained in me, we don't drink, we don't drink, we don't drink, you can have this problem. So I think subconsciously

in my mind, I was like, well, I'm not drinking like that. So, but I became a drug addict instead. And I couldn't like see the correlation between the two. So alcohol was always there because it was eaten way more accessible than the opiates or the ambitial. to me. It was really difficult to find ways to buy Ambien off the street. You know, you had to know somebody who had a script and then try to buy it that way. So alcohol was old reliable if I'm still just looking for a way to get my brain to shut off. Yeah. When one thing runs out, you subsute kind of with another. Was it ever confusing to you? I know when I first got started taking prescription pain medication, I honestly had no idea of the fact.

that there would be any withdrawal involved. I had no idea. I feel extremely naive mentioning that, but that was the truth. And I also was under the impression prescribed by a doctor, good to go. Even though I doubled it up and tripled it up and all that stuff as time went on,

but was that at all confusing to you, like how these things could grab you like they did? Yeah, absolutely. And I, so I was definitely in pain, right? but the thing that's fascinating about opiates is that your brain creates more pain so that you need more opiates. So it like made my pain worse, but I wasn't aware of that. I was prescribed when I was prescribed my pain medication from a pain management doctor. I was prescribed like 120 10 milligram percocet's a month. I was on 40 milligrams of methadone a day for pain and then

eight tablets of fentanyl. And I remember getting my record. when I got sober and in it it said like no worries of addiction you know she's really in pain and again this is where the you know lying and actively lying are two separate things because I was in pain a hundred percent so their chart isn't wrong by saying I'm in pain but I feel like it was way before like everybody knew about the opiate epidemic and the big pharma and all of that stuff off too. So I felt like, well, you know what's good for me and what's not. You know, and you've given me this like pills. So for pain. So if I'm in pain, I'm going to take the pill. You know, it doesn't matter that it says like in six to eight hours. If I'm feeling it in three, it's still

there. So obviously I'm still supposed to take it. Yeah. That just reminds me too when I had stuff where a doctor asked like, are you in pain? And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course, you know, like I'm looking to go north with everything the way I'm looking to, to take it, you know, as far as I can with things. That's interesting, though, that they would put on there. But, I mean, that was in one way or another, I mean, if you watch sort of the shows and documentaries of how all this came about, that was a big selling marketing feature of OxyContin, specifically is that you wouldn't develop a dependency on. on it but you know with time we know that that's that's so far from the truth the way it played out

for so many people i mean that stuff you listed there too though i mean that's a lot um i mean what you were there experiencing it i mean what like were you in that much pain i'm trying to think like that's a lot or or was this sort of the best attempt at treatment i think it was the best attempt at treatment i do think i was in pain because i have had similar pain since i've been sober um and that's something that like i have had to it was really a challenge like i get this pain sometimes it's like annually sometimes it's every two years but it is debilitating and i remember talking to my sponsor about it and being like you know i'm in so much pain i'm crying i'm using heating pads and she's like you're actually being selfish by like not going to the hospital and i was

like, but I can't go to the hospital for this because I'm terrified of if they give me pain meds, like what then happens? So I need to like absolutely 100% know that I have done everything in my power before I take that. So I haven't had to go to the hospital since then. But I know that the pain is debilitating. Was there a reason for me to be on that much pain medication? No. Like, nowhere near it. I was never aware that they used methadone for pain. So when they prescribed me methadone, like people looked at me like I was a drug addict. And I remember, like Facebook memories are annoying. I don't know if you can relate to this, but I'm getting notified now of like stuff from like 15 years ago, 14 years ago. And it's like, God, people look at me like I'm a drug addict.

I'm in actual pain here. I need my pain medication. How dare you? And I'm like, girlfriend, you are a drug addict, you know, but nobody looked at me that way because everything was like prescribed,

you know, and I thought, well, I'm selling this. Like, plus when we're in our active addiction, we don't know how bad we look, right?

Like I think I am nailing it, you know? And I look back on pictures of me during that time and I'm like what is wrong with your eyes or like your face is messed up but like in my head I was killing it nobody knew anything that was going on yeah but the Facebook memories I know I can relate to you so much when I was drinking heavy like I was drinking every day and you can tell in someone's face and I yeah when I look back I was like oh man I mean I was just yeah I was killing it And when I look back at the pictures, I'm like, man, I was not killing it at all.

Right. Who are you trying to fool? Because it's just yourself, really. Yeah, at the end of the day. Anything else to really cover in sort of this stretch of the story, too? I mean, I'm always curious. I mean, when you're on that type of stuff, like, I would usually ask the question about how you felt, you know, about your life and where you're at. But I'm thinking on the other hand, was there even time for that? I mean, did you run out of this stuff and go through withdraws or any? of that and kind of try to piece together, you know, other things to make sense of it all or to fill in the gaps? Yeah, I would go through withdrawal like crazy. And I would be sick all the time, you know, because my husband at the time, he had no idea about addiction or anything like that.

So everybody just thought it was like the most unhealthy person because I was getting sick all the time. um but i do want to highlight during this time like because i'm also on the pain meds and the ambient and the drinking when i run out of that stuff and the mental health medication i am just like tired of my life right like i'm in so much emotional spiritual physical pain that the pain of being me was just too great and there was only one way out for me so um on june first of 2016. I like took my kids out. We did the slip and slide. We got all their favorite desserts. I made it the best day ever because I knew that the next day I was going to wake up and I was going to kill myself. And so June 2nd of 2016, that's what I did. I woke up and I sent the kids

off to school and I took every pill in my medicine cabinet. It was nothing cool. It was like a Vexer, Reglin, NyQuil, Benadryl. And then I went to lay down and I thought it was going to look like it does in the movies where I was just going to drift off into a nice peaceful sleep. That's not my experience. My experience was I started, my body was paralyzed. And then I was choking on my own vomit. And I started like urinating and deprecating on myself until I lost consciousness.

And the only reason I'm alive today is because my daughter got sent home from school with a stomachache and her dad. brought her home and they used to do this game where they like spit straw wrappers at each other so they did that and she went to throw the straw wrapper away and the trash can was upstairs because mommy was sick again and she walked in on me dead on the bed and um you know she screamed and my husband came up and he had to scoop stuff out of my mouth to give me CPR and call 911 and um you know I I was in a coma on a ventilator. I have a picture of me on a ventilator that I like to keep very present with me. But during this time, like, people say that suicide is a very selfish thing.

And I understand the thought process behind that. But if you would have asked me, and whenever I tell the story, I still, like, I feel so much empathy for that version of myself. Like, I truly thought that my kids are going to be better off without me. my husband's going to be better off without me. My parents are going to be better off without me because all I bring is pain and sadness and misery. So it was truly the only way out of my situation that I saw

and that I believed in. Also because how lost I am in my own misery, this is also that I do this the day before my daughter's birthday. So, you know, talk about traumatic. experiences and then talk about generational trauma right so my mom had tried to commit suicide when i was 10 years old and now i do the exact same thing to my daughter when she's 10 years old and that was not like a thought that like came across my mind but that's that like generational trauma that kind of like builds and forms and we end up recreating it without any like awareness

of ourselves yeah well thanks for sharing that how do you feel like where you feel like where you're at today reflecting back and sharing that story. I, so I don't regret it. And that makes me sound like a terrible person. But I truly believe that I don't get to this part of my life and this portion of my life without that experience. Do I wish I could change anything? I wish I could change my children's experiences with that for sure.

you know I'm not a monster um but I don't think that I would be where I am today without any of the experiences that I had in my life so even all of the trauma that we had already talked about like I wouldn't change anything that happened to me um because I don't believe I would be here without it but that's not where I got sober you know you would think that that experience would be like okay this is the wake up call I needed everybody raised rally around you know but again this is where I talk about like lying and actively lying so I when I woke up um you know I wasn't happy that the attempt wasn't successful like I was like oh I can't even kill myself right like now it's like that's just add another thing that I'm a failure

at um but I go to a psych hospital and um you know they actually put on my discharge paperwork. I'm only there for a couple of days. They put on my discharge paperwork that I was only drinking and abusing medications to get up the nerve to kill myself. So I don't have to go to like any, they don't recommend 12 step meetings. They don't recommend any recovery program. I don't go to IOP or PHP or any like true like inpatient settings. It was like, okay, you did it. You found out it didn't work. Now go back home. Nothing changes. If nothing changes right so like i go back to using drugs i go back to drinking you know i'm probably good for maybe like three weeks and then i it becomes problem again you know like because i don't have any

other solution like i'm not fixed i'm broken so to get my brain to shut up i'm using the drugs i'm drinking i am you know sleeping my life away and the like eventually i run out of the opiates so detox myself from a reckless amount of opiates that I was using and on the third day my brain snaps and apparently I grab a knife over my youngest son's head and I say I'm going to kill myself again. That's like my go-to is suicide. Yeah. And how like what's the time frame here? This is like a month timeframe? No. So it would be another six months. So June is when I actively tried to commit suicide. And then the next attempt is the end of December. Yeah. Has anybody up until this point, too, like, said, hey, you have a problem with addiction?

Yeah, my mom, for sure. Like, she was like, this is, this is not normal behavior. She wanted me, when I went into that psych ward after the suicide attempt, she wanted them to take me off of all of my prescriptions all like the opiates and the ambient and the benzos and all of that stuff she wanted it all but i was a grown up at this point you know so they don't have to talk to her if i don't want them to so they didn't because she wasn't allowed and um you know my husband at the time he was aware but there were some benefits that he was getting to me being an addict too you know um It's, I've become very, so like I said, Ambia makes me like blackout drunk, you know, and because I was in so much pain, having an intimate relationship with someone was very hard for me.

So I would take the Ambien and then I was good to go. I didn't feel anything. And that was just like our normalized relationship, which I know now is like not normal. and a problem but at the time I was like oh this is him showing me he loves me because of all of that trauma I had experienced you know in my past was like well if somebody like wants to have sex with you

then they love you so it doesn't matter this is how you show love so it doesn't matter if it hurts you it doesn't matter if you can't like it's okay because it's been taught to me that it's okay yeah did you have any friends in the picture that was like hey what's going on here or no No. It was, I wasn't a party like addict or an alcoholic. I was like a very isolated, very sad, very like lonely person. Because at this time, too, I didn't think I was a person who was like worthy of friendships. So I had some friends that I had since high school and we would catch up like once every couple of months. But nobody was in the day to day of my life because I didn't think I was worthy of friends.

Gotcha. What would a day? look like for you at this point like in this six month stretch like you wake up and how would it look so i wake up and i count down the hours until i can go to sleep again um you know so if the kids have school then i'm getting them up for school sometimes not all the time because i'm not capable all the time i'm rushing them out the door at this point i know how long it takes for the ambientic kick in so i'm taking it before they even leave the house because i know within 30 minutes they're going to be on and then like i i'm free to just like sleep throughout the day and that's what what would happen i and then they would come home from school and i would do homework with them maybe sometimes you know

not all the time um and i would they would be in my way like i would be counting down the hours until it was like all right when is bath time done or dance or hockey or whatever um you know And my husband had to take up a lot of the slack for that because I just wasn't able to be present. Because if I wasn't under the influence, then I was withdrawing, right? Or sick, you know, as we like to call it. Because we never said, like, I was never like, oh, I'm in withdrawal right now. I was just like, oh, I don't know why I'm sick again. Yeah.

You know, so I wasn't a very reliable parent. Yeah. And then you grabbed the knife, supposedly, right? You had mentioned there. You're grabbing the knife. where do you go from there i mean even up until this point too have you like that's kind of the thing i was mentioned it earlier too how i can see in this situation you're in even though now we can see it clear as day right but at the time you're getting these prescriptions written you're meeting

with people you're going to psychiatrists you're seeing a therapist you're doing all of this stuff things in your life aren't improving you're not feeling happy or or you know these other goals that you might have to connect the dots of like everything's being prescribed, well, I have a serious addiction. That can be that little bit of confusing spot. So you hadn't really considered like getting sober necessarily at all. No, it wasn't even a thought that crossed my mind. I wasn't like, I never thought I was anything but sober.

If you would have asked me in like the height of my addiction, I would have said, I'm not a drug addict. Like these are all prescribed to me or even if I'm abusing it, I still, I think, the problem is like when we show addiction in like Hollywood and stuff right it's always like people are shooting up or like they're on the street and they're homeless or you know people don't look like stay at home moms who are you know abusing their prescriptions or drinking you know while the kids are at school so I didn't look like what I thought a typical addict look like so therefore I'm not an addict you know sure maybe I'm abusing my medications but I'm not as bad at

what they're showing yeah that makes so much sense yeah getting sober no wasn't even a thought that crossed my mind yeah which makes sense too because yeah if you don't see yourself as struggling with addiction or substance use disorder anything like that it's like well what what is there to get sober from and like you're so you're you're quote unquote sober this whole time you're just maybe bending the rules you know slightly in some way or another but yeah it's not like you know everything else you see here or there i mean i think that can keep us going you know all in our own ways right because because john down the street or joe over there or sally over there i mean come on they've got a serious problem look at their life it's falling apart um yeah mine mine isn't maybe outwardly falling

apart like that but you had that really serious internal struggle to where you have ended up in these two really serious situations and then you're and i knew that Like, something knew I was an addict, right? Because I would watch shows like The Wire. And they were showing people shooting up. And I was like, I could never do heroin because I know with absolute certainty that I would love it. So when I was in my addiction, like, I'm aware that I'm going to fall in love with something. So therefore, I can never try it because I knew that that would never get me back.

Little did I know that I was like using the same as heroin, but it was just more expensive. Yeah, true, true. What all was, what was all the medication doing for you kind of when you look back? So the stuff I was abusing, right? I have no idea what the antidepressants were doing for me. Like, I couldn't tell you. But I would say that the, I'm a downer girl. And I like to sleep my life away.

I think that was very helpful for me in my, you know, mental health struggle. I think drugs kept me alive for much longer time than if I was not using drugs. I think if I was not using drugs, I would have attempted to a side much earlier. So I think that they just got my brain to be quiet and they made me feel like I was good enough in that moment or at least shut off the parts of my brain that made me feel like I wasn't good enough because like I said I was a tomboy right so never very girly and my mom is like super girly pink loves like all girl stuff right and um I was never that daughter for her um my husband would say to me my previous husband would say to me you know um nobody wants to be

married to a dude and he says he was joking but I took it as like serious because there was already that insecurity within me I wasn't the type of mom who like carried snacks in her purse or like had wet lives i don't even carry a purse like it's unheard of to me so like i knew all of the things that i wasn't and the drugs and the alcohol shut that part of my brain off where i could just be i could just exist and that's what i was doing was just existing yeah thanks for sharing that too it it makes a lot of sense too like that's like trying to find a sense of belonging maybe you know i i think that's a big one of the big reasons why i got started on things too is because i didn't feel that ever growing up like the world didn't make sense to me i was

like just sort of on the outside of things and um substances did that part too shut off the fact that maybe i didn't belong or couldn't find that but also help me um a little bit different than i than your journey there but it helped me find a sense of belonging even though it was disastrous but I could connect with other people drinking, partying, and all of that stuff. So this last incident, I mean, where do you go from there? Does this bring upon thoughts or the idea of sobriety and things have to change or no? So this is where everything kind of changes. I have to go to another psych ward, of course.

But this time I was there for a much longer period of time. So I was there for like 19 days. And while I was there, my husband and my mom came to visit me. and they told me that I had to go to treatment or I was going to be homeless. So this is just like the military where I wasn't really provided an option. It was like, you have to go in the military or get a full-time job. And I went into the military. This was like the same scenario.

If you present me with options with, I have to go to treatment or I'm going to be homeless, I'm going to go to treatment 100% of the time because I don't think I'll homeless well. It doesn't mean that I want to get sober. Like that is not where, you know, that happened. but there was also a therapist in that psych ward who um who identified as being an alcoholic and in recovery and he had he had his scibi he was a doctor he had eight years sober at the time and he was happy and like enjoyed life and i was like that's weird i don't understand and i'm like but you felt like like this before and now you're you're there and uh he was a

the first person. So he had me share my story up until that point in like a group therapy. And I started to cry and it wasn't like the one or two like tears. It was like snobbles and like hyperventilating. But that's where like the walls started to crack a little bit because like I was becoming a little bit more vulnerable and allowing for people to see that I'm in pain. And he was the first person. He believed in me before I believed in me. He gave me this piece of paper that said, resilience, empowerment, and strength. That's what recovery is, and that's what you are.

And I have never, ever, ever forgotten that moment. And he's a mentor to me today. You know, we didn't have contact probably for like five years. And then we ended up getting in contact on Facebook. And he's a mentor to me. just wrote he wrote a recovery book and i wrote a chapter in his recovery book um and when i was contemplating going to school um you know i reached out to him and and he kind of gave me the courage to do that so to see somebody who identified as being an alcoholic and you know an addict

and knew the pain that i was feeling at that time but then like was also happy at the same point I was like, wow, that's crazy. So then I went to treatment after I left that hospital. I went to a treatment center. And while I was there, I met three super important people. And none of them were the staff members there. So it's funny how that works. So the first person wrote down the third step prayer for the recovery program I'm in

and was like, here, you should say this. every morning. And I was like, no, thank you. Like, I don't pray. He's like, what else are you doing? And I'm like, I don't know. He was like, just try it. It's not going to hurt you. And then the second person gave me the courage to move out to York. And then the third person would introduce me to my sponsor when I love treatment. So while I'm in treatment, I've only been a treatment one time and I knocked on wood. And while I'm there, I'm hearing people have been in treatment 27 times. One person was in 72 treatment centers, you know, and I'm terrified because I don't love rehab, right? Like, I didn't go to a fancy rehab. You know, I went where we were allowed, like, one pillow,

and you had to put your sweatshirt underneath your pillow to make a second pillow. And, like, it was not a super enjoyable experience for me. So 12-step people started coming in and sharing their stories, and they say all the corny things, right? Like, the one thing you have to change is everything and then people places and things and they started talking about recovery houses and by this point I had been in rehab for 10 days and I was in the psych ward for 19 so I'm right around the 30 day mark and this is where like I start to think like okay maybe I do want to try this right because I know that what I'm doing before is not working so now I start listening to the speakers who come in and then you know I tell I had a family session with the therapist and my husband

and I told my husband I wanted to go to a recovery house and he said if I went to a recovery house then our marriage would be over and I made the decision to go to the recovery house anyway um so my marriage ended I was married for 12 years my marriage ended while I was in treatment I didn't have custody of my kids while I was in treatment um I lost custody of them My family didn't support me moving and going to a recovery house because I also knew that I had to be removed from the situation, right? So I needed a geographical change. Not everybody needs that, but I needed it. So I moved two hours away from Levitown to York, Pennsylvania, which Levitown has great recovery too, but it just wouldn't have been great for me.

I'm like certain of that. When I moved out to York and I went to Recovery House, nobody supported me like i had nothing to my name um i had like a 400 credit score like whatever the lowest you can get like that's what i had um and i lost everything you know um but to me what i'm really grateful for is what i like about a geographical relocation is that nobody in york knows me as anything but this sober version of myself So have I made mistakes in sobriety? Absolutely.

Nobody does sobriety perfectly. I don't care who you are. But I haven't used in York and I haven't drank in York. So I built whatever type of life I wanted for myself. It was like a fresh start. But that doesn't mean it was without pain. You know, my parents would tell me all the time that I was being a piece of crap, mom, like what type of mom chooses to leave her kids,

Everybody thought I should go back to my husband and that I should go back to my children. But there's zero doubt in me that if I would have went home, I would be dead. Like it's not like a 98% certainty. It's like 100%. If I would have went back into the same life that I was living, I would have killed myself. I was incapable of getting sober there and being sober there. And it's not because of them. like it is not because of my ex-husband it is not because of my children it's not because of my

parents it is purely because of who i was in that situation yeah but thanks for sharing all that too i see that as a is a pretty common trend too as you go to rehab for 30 days and then it's like okay you know great work and then people drop right back into where they were and 30 days to heal everything is just a lot to ask, if not close to impossible, and then you go back into the same place and everybody's operating the same way. Like the reality is the day you get out, I mean, life picks up to wherever it left off, you know? So that is a lot though. I mean, you get into this, right? You're making obviously the best decision for your life, but you're losing things along the way of, you know, people are saying, hey, maybe this isn't the right thing. I mean, good on you.

good on you for doing the best you could in that spot and saying, hey, like the way I'm doing it is not working. I don't know if this other way is going to work, but I think it's going to give me a better shot to, you know, make things work. How long were you in sort of the, this is a sober living that you went into then, right? Where you live with other people and, you know, have some programming at 10 meetings and how long were you there for? So I was in a sober living environment. So we call the recovery houses out here and then you can go to a sober house. So I did both of those. I was in the recovery house for a couple months and then the silver house for about a year.

So I lived there until me and my boyfriend ended up getting our own apartment. So I was in some place where I could get tested weekly, you know, or whatever they wanted to. And I needed that because I needed that accountability and that structure to kind of like figure out how to be a grown-up experience. again. Even though I got sober at 36. So I was like technically a grown up, but, um, you know, I had to learn how to be an adult and do adult things. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of time, sort of in that structured environment there of recovery house and then sober living. And I mean, it shows, right. I've done a lot of podcasts over the years and met a lot of people and there's, there's an edge from people who were involved in those highly structured things of

level of discovery and awareness maybe of sort of what happened and how they felt about things and sort of that growth like when you're when you're in there right i mean their opportunity to grow is is a lot higher going back to everything too i mean you go into this psych ward you're still on all the medication how does that journey kind of move forward too i mean you're on the ambient and everything else i mean do you come off of all of that stuff or no yeah they so i don't have detox as part of my story like a detox center or detox like regimen um it was basically like cold turkey just yeah in the hospital then yeah in the psych ward yeah um wow so and then treatment you know same thing like i'm still on antidepressants while i'm in treatment but um when i get

out of rehab, my insurance didn't cover like continued treatment. So I didn't get to like go to IOP or anything like that. So I had to like heavily rely on the 12 step program for my sobriety. And they they got, right? Like, you know, I had a sponsor in my life at that time who like was exactly what I needed and kept saying to me like because I would call crying all the time because like my kids didn't talk to me when I first got sober they were all mad at me um especially my daughter and I would call like hysterical and she was like well do you feel like you're doing the right thing and I would say yes and she's like then that has to be enough right now you know and you have to have faith that like you doing the right thing is going to like show in the end and it has um you know and thank goodness I didn't

do the easy thing, right? The easy thing would have been going back to what I know, going back to that scratchy wool blanket because I know what that's like versus the fear of starting your life over again and having, you know, no support whatsoever. That was terrifying. And I, looking back, like, I don't know how I had the courage to do it. It was definitely something that was like bigger than me was working in my life in that moment, guiding me in that direction. Because if somebody told me today I had to start completely new. I would be like, let me tell you all the reasons why I'm not going to do that. But, you know, at that point in my life, I think I was just, you know, they say when you're, you've had enough pain, right? Then you'll grow. And I think I had

had enough pain in that moment that I was just like looking for whatever people told me to do, I did. If they were sober and they were like happy and liking their, life and like didn't look miserable and didn't want to kill themselves and like I was so willing to just grab on to whatever information they had and I would just do it whether I wanted to or not you know the stuff like when you have a resentment do something nice for somebody else like get them a gift card and don't take credit for it I'm like that's weird but I would do it because the alternative is like I'm going to drink and I'm going to die like no thank you so like I'll buy the $10 gift card whether I want to or not.

Like I'm just, at this point, like, I just want to be teachable, just remain teachable. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge shift, too. And I'm sure that, you know, just for time, right, that's like we could get more in depth, too, on how this takes place because you're making this huge change of this is the way your life has been before and up until this point. And you've went through so much stuff. And then now you're willing to listen, you know, it took these events in your life.

to get to the spot of being willing to, you know, accept feedback or direction or just suggestions that have worked for other people. When do you get the sense that, hey, maybe this could work out for you? I remember in the earlier days, I'd get so pissed off at everybody having fun. Like, what are you guys having fun for at these meetings and having coffee and all this crap? And I was like, it'll never be my story. I'm so happy for everybody else. You guys are great. I mean, cool, looks good on you. But I didn't necessarily at the beginning believe that I would be able to make changes. Was there a time or place or was it just gradually that you're like, okay, you know, maybe

I can make something of this and feel some joy in my life again? Yeah, I think it was a gradual thing. You know, my first sponsor says that she saw it like right away that I was like super willing. And she was like, if this chick remains willing like she is now, like she's going to, she's going to get it and she's going to like stick around. I don't think I felt that internally. um you know but i think it was probably at like six months or so where i was like huh i haven't

wanted to kill myself in a couple months that's that's weird that's a new feeling to not have so that's when like i started to realize like oh this really is working like something is changing in me because then i started gaining friendships and i started doing stuff that was like having fun and my kids started talking to me again, you know, and I started to get things like back a little bit and gain things that like I had never had. But there was one particular instance where like everything started to shift for me. There was a situation with a guy that I was seeing and I was unhappy. And I went to my sponsor and she was like, you need to come over.

So I went over and she was like, she was like, are you the whatever, girl. And I was like, no. And she's like, so when are you going to stop being what you think everybody else wants you to be and just be the woman that you're meant to be? And I was like, wow. Like, and that hit. And that's where I say, like, everything shifted. Because up until that point, like I was like a chameleon because I just wanted you to like me. So if you like this type of music, then I'll like it. If you like these movies, I'll like it. If you only want to, you know, be whatevering with me or you want to see other people or whatever. whatever, cool, because I want you to like me. But in that moment, like everything shifted. And I

live my life like that to this day, you know, almost nine years later, you know, where I'm just going to be the woman that I'm meant to be. And the right people will stay in my life. The right jobs will stay in my life. The right partner will stay in my life. But I'm not willing to accept anything less. I'm not going to change me so that it benefits you or so that you'll like me. Yeah, that's so powerful. That is so powerful. And that was kind of sprung on from that conversation you had there from this relationship you mentioned you were in. Yeah. And things shifted. You started like picking yourself. Yeah. Because you have to like the thing is everybody talks about loving yourself, right? Like love yourself. Learn to love yourself. In order to get to love

yourself, you have to learn to like yourself first. So like I needed to figure out like, what are the things about me that I like so that I can like fall in like with myself, just like a relationship. You don't fall in love with somebody immediately. So like fall in like with yourself and then like that will eventually grow into love hopefully. You know, um, where today I still, when people say they don't care if people like them or not, I never believe them. I'm like, that's always the person who cares the most in the room. Um, because I still, want people to like me. It's just the difference today is I'm not going to change myself if you don't. I still want to be liked. But I like me and I love me. And that was something that recovery

gave me that I didn't have before. Yeah. I like the way you put that too, like the steps to get there, right? Because you do hear that a lot. You can't give away something you don't have when it comes to love and you got to love yourself, but it takes time. And there's definitely different steps to get there. How are things now with your kids? So things are great. My kids now are 26, 20, and 18. You know, so they're all grown. My kids are super proud of my recovery. And I've been able to show up for them in like different ways where I wouldn't have been able to previously. my daughter and I probably are actually almost the closest, I would say, like in different ways. The one that I created the most kind of trauma for is kind of the one I'm closest to today.

But she came and lived with us, me and my current husband, we were just boyfriend and girlfriend at the time, but she said she wanted to live with us when she was going in a ninth grade. So we bought a house and then she came and lived with us and then my youngest came and live with us, but then decided to go live with his dad. But now he currently lives with us, the 18-year-old. So I have a good relationship with all of them. They all, I'm very open about recovery. You know, they're very proud of my recovery.

They're open to my recovery. And, you know, my daughter's been to a couple of my celebrations. My oldest says that, you know, I'm the strongest person that he knows because of everything that I've been through. This year is actually going to be the first year when I celebrate at the end of this month where my youngest will come to my celebration. So that will be a unique experience to see how he takes it at that time. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah, on the 28th, right? Yes, the 28th of December. I will have nine years.

Nine years. Wow, great job. I mean, from everything you've been through and you shared. I mean, I'm sitting here curiously wondering what's inspired you to share everything that you've been through to come from that place where you were with the walls being up, not wanting to share or not being able to share to this place where you're so open and honest about the journey you've been on. So I started working in treatment when I was a year sober. And that kind of gave me the passion that I had while I was in the military where I felt like I was doing something that was bigger than me. working in treatment was the same way for me. So I started as like a detox technician, like making sure people are breathing, searching bags. And then I went to school because I knew I wanted to be a counselor. So I graduated with my bachelor's. Four years to the day of the day of my suicide attempt in June of 2016. Four years to the day later, I graduated with my bachelor's degree

and then continued school and went on to my master's. And so I have been almost every job you can work in treatment. You know, I've been a case manager, a counselor, a therapist. And now I am almost done with my PhD. I have about five months left where my PhD will be in psychology with the specialization and substance use and addictive behaviors. And I think that the more you talk about your story, the more it has a chance to impact somebody else. And when I was a therapist, I was very open and honest about my recovery and my story and all of that. And years later, it's so interesting to me when somebody like sends me a Facebook message. And they're like, hey, I just want you to know I'm celebrating three years today.

Like you were a part of my story. And I always think back to that first doctor that I had in the second psych hospital who was one of us and he shared about being one of us. And that is what gave me the hope to like get better. right so the more I talk about my story the more we can change like what the face of an addict looks like my daughter when she was in her senior year she was a cheerleader and they had to tell like some secret about themselves so she shared that her parent was in recovery and her cheerleading coach who had known me for four years came out to me and was like oh my god I had no idea your ex was a drug addict and I'm like what are you talking about and she's like well Brooklyn said that

a parent of hers was in recovery and I was like yeah yeah, that's me. And she was like, what? She was like, I would have never assumed that. And I'm like, there's your sign, right? Like, we look like everybody, right? Drug addicts and alcoholics, we look like everybody. We're judges, lawyers, doctors, nurses, therapists, you know, it doesn't discriminate.

So the more we can break that stigma too, I think the greater the world can be. Yeah, that is beautiful. good reason to share. I mean, the impact that that doctor had on your life and now going out there. And I'm sure it's happened a bunch of times for you throughout the years of working with people, right? I'm working in treatment. And, you know, I used to, I used to work like seven years ago. I did it probably for seven years as a case manager.

I worked with kids up here in Canada. And it's tough work. It is really tough work to do, right? I was under the assumption when I was going to college that everybody that showed up at the treatment center was interested in the program and they would stick around for it to be completed. And one of my earliest mentors sort of while I worked there

as I was wondering and trying to piece all this together about why a lot of people anyway weren't interested in really doing a whole heck of a lot and he had kind of broken it down for me, a seed planter. You know, in a lot of ways he said you're going to be a seed planter. A lot of these guys that come here, and girls that come here are not going to stay sober after here. But your job here is to plant some seeds and then hopefully throughout their life, they'll get

watered and in one day things will make sense for them. But I thought going into it, like, oh man, we're going to really turn some battleships around here. And it wasn't always the case. Of course, sometimes it was. But yeah, it was interesting. And you have that experience too. I mean, what's on the horizon for you?

What's your vision to do with all of this? So I am so focused on school right now that like five months is like the light at the end of the tunnel to be, have my PhD, which is like hilarious because I got like an 800 on my SATs. Like I'm not like a naturally smart person. But what I always tell people is like that same drive that I had to like get the next one, right? Like nothing was going to get in front of me if I needed to get a drink or a drug. like if you use that power for good you can become unstoppable so i use that same like drive and work

ethic towards putting it to something good and that's where like that has come my i want to write a book about my story um but i also want to incorporate the surrounding players like my daughter's experience with me during that time and my oldest and youngest um you know and the surrounding players to And so it's not just my experience because, you know, our perception is our reality. And my story is my story no matter what. But it probably looks a little bit differently to the surrounding players. And then I just want to continue to try to help other addicts and alcoholics. You know, I go to speak in treatment centers all the time.

And I do like to say two specific things. So the first one is like regarding all the trauma that I experienced, when I stopped looking at myself as a victim and started looking at myself as a survivor, that's where like the shift happens. If I'm a victim, somebody else has my power. If I am a survivor, then I'm powerful and I have my power back. So that's a huge shift to make for anybody with trauma. And the second thing is like the fact that I was messed up was not my fault. But the fact that I stayed messed up is. So you have a decision to make, right? Do you want to stay sick or do you want to get better? Because I can't change anything that happened to me in my past,

but I can definitely take steps so that I don't experience those kind of negative things in the future. So really just passing out that message and letting people know that there's a better way of life out there. It doesn't have to be so sad and so miserable and you're not alone.

Yeah, powerful. Curious, too, as we head towards wrapping up, how did you make that shift from, I think you said the victim to the survivor? I think with the understanding and with a lot of therapy and a lot of work that I didn't cause these things. It was like I wasn't a four-year-old asking for somebody to assault or I wasn't, you know,

a 15-year-old. I wasn't, you know, in the military saying like, please somebody attack me, you know. So you have to like find that forgiveness for yourself. um and really as corny as it is right that resentment and not holding onto it for any situation um and looking because forgiveness isn't for the other person forgiveness is really for you so you stop holding the weight of that because me holding onto it is just making me sick so trying not to live in resentment today and taking action when I am feeling resentful because I'm still like a human I get resentful but what am I willing to do in order to not sit

that anymore. I think the longer I stay sober, the less willing I am to sit in negative emotion. So what works for me? You know, I'm a big advocate of going to the gym for my mental health. Like I go to the gym every morning. I find that that has a lot of benefits for me to get out my aggression. I'm like a naturally angry person. So going to the gym and working out kind of gets that out in a healthy way and I'm allowed to just be and focus um you know but really that shift happened when it was about not just forgiving the other people but forgiving myself for holding onto it yeah thank you for sharing that too the forgiveness is what a lot of people I think talk about too about getting to that place of forgiveness or will I ever forgive you know will I ever be able

to forgive myself forgive others for the way that things went um and I I definitely see that as a big path forward and everybody has their own timeline. You know, it's not something that, you know, rush overnight or today or tomorrow. It tends to be a thing when people sober up too. It's like, okay, let's get to work here and get everything unpacked overnight, you know. Things take time, right? It really does. Well, thank you so much, Jess, for jumping on and sharing your story.

Anything for closing? Any thoughts? I just want to say thank you for having me on and for doing this. I think you're making a huge difference. When people can hear our stories and we talk openly about it and we're not like living in secret or shame, you know, it has an ability to touch other people. So thank you for what you do. Yeah, it's so true because there's going to be people that can relate and maybe it can serve as what that did early on for you. What the other doctor shared his story and what he had went through and how things were.

it's the ripple effect yeah because sometimes you know it is tough the stuff we go through as humans and then to ever think it could be different you know i'm sure you could relate like there were times in your life for you this is how's always going to be it's never going to be any different and then here you are you know coming up on nine years later huge congrats thank you again so much thank you well there it is another incredible episode here on the podcast thank you so much jess my goodness, nine years, sober, her entire life has changed. And now she continues to work and help and support and give back to other people. Beautiful full circle moment for her, I'm sure.

Thank you, as always, for listening. If you've not left a review on Apple or Spotify, please jump over there and leave a review. And I'll see you on the next one.