Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Gary Menkes has not had a drink or drug in 17 years. One night, drunk and alone in his apartment, something happened that would change everything

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

On today's episode, we have the privilege of hearing Gary's inspiring journey. For the past 17 years, Gary has chosen a life free from alcohol and drugs. Growing up, he struggled with keeping his emotions hidden, internalizing everything. Eventually, alcohol became a significant part of Gary's life, providing a temporary escape. But one day, something happened in Gary's apartment while he was intoxicated, an experience that he can't quite articulate. That moment became a catalyst for change, sparking a deep desire within Gary to transform his life. He knew it would require dedication and effort, but he was ready to embark on the journey of recovery. Join us as we dive into Gary's incredible story—how he managed to string together 17 years of sobriety and the reasons why he remains connected to the recovery community. His experiences and insights will undoubtedly motivate and inspire us all. Get ready to be moved by Gary's story on the Sober Motivation Podcast. --------------- Follow Gary on Instagram Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram Support the Show here    

Welcome back to season two of the Subur Motivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. On today's episode, we have the privilege of hearing Gary's inspiring story. For the past 17 years, Gary has chosen a life free from alcohol and drugs. Growing up, he struggled with keeping his emotions hidden, internalizing everything. Eventually, alcohol became a significant part of Gary's life providing a temporary escape.

But one day something happened in Gary's apartment while he was intoxicated, an experience that he can't quite articulate. That moment became a catalyst for change, sparking a deep desire within Gary to transform his life. He knew it would require dedication and effort, but he was ready to embark on the journey of recovery. Join us as we dive into Gary's incredible story, how he managed to string together 17 years of sobriety and the reasons why he remains connected to the recovery community. His experiences and insights will undoubtedly motivate and inspire us all.

Get ready to be moved by Gary's story on the Sober Motivation Podcast. How's it going, everyone, Brad here? Look, if you're enjoying this show, do me a huge favor and drop a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and share this show with a couple of your friends that are in recovery, or maybe those that are still struggling. Now let's get to the show. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode

of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Gary with us. Gary, how are you? I'm good, Brad. I'm good. I really appreciate you having me on. It's been a pleasure to find you. Like I said, I found you online,

and now I feel like I see you everywhere. So big compliment to you. I love what you're doing, man. Really. Thank you, man. It means the world. Thank you so much. And I'm excited to get into this, man.

So the same question for every episode. What was it like for you growing up, Gary? Yeah, so you had just told me before we were off offline that I might have one of the longest stretches of sobriety on the show. Took me back a little bit, overwhelmed me a bit. And in a good way, just making me reflect that, wow, I've been sober 17 years. And if you knew me 17 years ago, Brad, that was a complete impossibility. I think if you knew me, you definitely were known I had a problem for sure. sure, but I don't think you would have voted me as one of the guys to turn their life around

and find sobriety. You know, what it was like, you know, growing up, I grew up on Long Island, New York. I think I had a pretty relatively semi-normal upbringing, if you will, childhood. My parents are still together. Really awesome, tight-knit community neighborhood of boys of pals that I'm still with, still with these with today. A lot of them came from broken homes or issues at home. I had a loving mom and dad. I still do. We have a very complicated relationship together. My dad was when I was young, when I was really young, he was very active. He was active in cocaine and some other things. And anywhere from anywhere from what I can, as long as I can remember, four or five years old to about 12 years old, there was always, there was always

some rough characters in them out of my house. And I had this facade that I was like a tough kid but inside I was really, and I didn't realize this until I got sober, but I was really full of fear. I was full of all sorts of fear. I was uncomfortable in my own skin. I was uncomfortable that people were going to know what was going on in my house and night. I was uncomfortable. I was afraid my dad wasn't going to make him come home. I thought he was going to die somehow.

I would literally sit out at my kitchen window and stare at the door at the window. I'm nervous that he wasn't going to make it home. And he made it home. And he doesn't know that he was. Neither is my mom. I've never shared any of this. In fact, what I just said, and I never shared that with anybody except for my wife.

She knows that stuff. But there was always stuff. There was always guys in and out of my house, weird guys knocking on door at all sorts of hours of the night. Even like there was cut straws. And I would go grab a spoon for my Cheerios. And there was like cut used straws, cocaine straws, and big bags of weed all over the place.

And I knew something was wrong. And like when you hit like 12, 13 years old, I'll be just an age of myself. I'll be 49 in July. So talking about the 80s and the war on drugs was like a big thing and say no to drugs. And that started coming around. I was 12, 13 years old. And I remember coming home and I was crying.

And because all I was thinking about what was going on at home. And my mom was like, what's the matter? And I was like, we're doing this thing at school. I don't want to say no to drugs. And I know dad's doing a lot of drugs. And she's like, well, you have to talk to him. And he talked to me that night. And he just kind of lined through his teeth.

Like he's like, you know, yeah, maybe I've done some things, but I don't do anything, you know, that. And he does love him. I want to preface that. He does. We have a complicated relationship. And I love him. We've had a long stretch of episodes throughout my life. And the moment he said that to me and he kind of, you know, just, you know, lied through his teeth.

Like, I automatically changed looking back. I was like, okay, you know, like, I'm on my own here. I had a younger sister, too. And even at a young age, I started developing this mindset of, I don't care what I see. I'll get through it. But if my sister sees any of this stuff, I'm going to rebel and I'm going to fight. And I'm going to go, I'm going to fight. And I was a skinny kid.

I loved sports, played a lot of sports as a kid growing up. We were typical like 1980s, middle 80s neighborhood, like street hockey, baseball to field. I grew up right up the street from an amazing park. who was like the center of the entire neighborhood and every single sport. It was a town pool there. That's all I did. I grew up at this park.

And it was a rough neighborhood too. But I didn't realize it. Growing up, like my wife, she's from the same town, but she didn't grow up in the area that I did. And she wasn't really allowed down there. But we didn't know that. We didn't know. We had everything we needed.

It really did. And yeah, there was rough guys, but we were friends with all. And they looked out for us. And we were like the kids in the neighborhood. but I started developing this kind of chip on my shoulder. And because of what I just mentioned, especially like trying to look out for my sister.

And she doesn't know this either. And there's no need to tell her about it now. So I started developing this chip on my shoulder. I started drinking early. All my friends, they either were left back or they're a little bit older. So they started drinking. I remember fourth grade being at Buddy's houses and going into their parents' liquor cabinets

and starting to hit the vodka, whatever was in there. And I always felt like they were like a little bit ahead as far as being able to drink early on. And get a little older, maybe junior high school, you start to, you're allowed to go out a little bit. And they were always allowed to go out. I was like the last one allowed out.

I'm getting to high school. I think I'm not typical in the sense that you started drinking on the weekends. You hear it so many times. Once I started drinking, I started feeling a little more comfortable and all those fears were not right at the surface. and I was a little more comfortable in my skin. Excuse me. I've heard in the rooms that I was an uncomfortable person, alcohol,

made me feel comfortable. I heard that recent, like in the past few months. And you still learn stuff, even though I've been sober 17 years, you know, God willing, this is going to be a lifelong process for me. And it's a lifelong process of learning. And so, you know, I started drinking. Start drinking on the weekends. And I started blacking out pretty early.

And I started getting into trouble really, really early right away. I'll tell you one of the biggest events of my life. I was 16 years old. I was the captain of my varsity baseball team in Port Washington, Long Island. I was a junior in high school. And I think most towns, the night before Thanksgiving is I gave you tonight. And the whole town goes out. And I was with my older cousin, who I looked up to, my whole life.

And I still did. It's still my boys as three older cousins. And I was with them all day long. We were like driving around their car, drinking some beers in the back seat and batting cages and stuff. And they were talking about going to the bar. It's the biggest night of the year. And I was like, I had in my head, I was like, I'm going to the bar tonight. And they went and I went in and I, you couldn't get in.

I somehow just snuck into this bar. I was 16 years old. I was by far the youngest kid in the bar. And I knew everyone in the bar. Everyone knew me. I was like a little celebrity for that. Like, look at Gary. Look at them in here.

You know, they knew not to really let me go up and order of the beer drinks. They were getting, they would feed me. And I was like having the time of my life. This is the best. Fast forward a couple hours later, a brawl breaks out. And a brawl breaks out and spills out into the street. And it's my three cousins versus a whole bunch of other guys. And so this fight goes out.

And I was, I'm not a big guy. I'm like 511. I'm a little heavier now. But when I was a kid, I was about 16. I was probably five, whatever, five, eight, five, nine, 140. I was a little guy. I was a skinny old guy. And like I said, I was by far the youngest guy in here.

Long story short, this fight happened. The cops show up. and the cops one cop who was like I had been running into him at like parties like he was just a he's a bad guy at least I thought like that's how the neighborhood was like the cops were like they weren't on our side and now I'm an adult and so my best friends of the chief of police in the same town and they're great guys so there's one cop went to go arrest my my one of my cousins and and I allegedly walked over and to protect them my old cousin I'm protecting my blasts punching him in the nose, broke cops,

his nose, get arrested. I wake up Thanksgiving morning in Nassau County Jail for arresting, first degree assault of the police officer. And that was my first foray into real trouble. Now, I was getting in trouble and in school, I was not going to class. I was when I was in elementary school, Brad, truthfully, I was one of the smartest kids in the school. By the time I was a senior,

I barely, barely was passing my classes, and I barely graduated high school just because I wasn't doing anything. In fact, I would on purpose not do any work whatsoever. And there was one time I had a backpack and you're like, what are you doing with a backpack? I haven't seen you four years in high school. You never had a backpack. And I'd take a guess what I had in the backpack. I had a case of beer in the backpack. So this event happened and I was like immediately looked at differently from like these older guys that in town, right? Went from this little guy, a little athlete to like, wow, this guy's kid's crazy. And in a way, I was respected.

in these circles. There's a lot of guys that have been in trouble that I'm talking about. They're all lives too, but never gotten to this kind of trouble. I'm facing this. There's just a few big charges, you know, disorderly conduct, assault and police officer. I'm looking at eight years in prison. And I wake up literally Thanksgiving morning, like I said, in Nassau County, Lockup. I go out and my parents help, we got a lawyer, and we ended up fighting it. I was in court for about two years. And it was the first time I was ever in trouble. and they got it sealed and I never had to do any time. I was on probation for five years, which is a lot of time to be on probation,

especially for an 18-year-old. And this is an 18-year-old, Brad, that I'm just about to really amp up my addiction and my alcoholism. I was an alcoholic from the get-go, and alcohol is my main problem. And I hated drugs and I hated cocaine. The fact that I saw my dad doing this stuff when I was a kid, I hated it. And I remember these guys that were in my house. I hated this guy. I had a, I wanted to fight them, even though, like I said, it wasn't a big guy, but I had this

massive chip growing on my shoulder. And along behold, I found cocaine when I was a little older, younger 20s. And it made me, allowed me to drink more. And so I quickly jumped onto that too. And I was the type of person, a type of addict type of party or whatever you want to call me, that I had friends that were doing this for for kind of a while. And as soon as I burst onto that scene and started doing it, like, they had to hide it from it because I would just do it all. And I'd say, let's get more. And that's how I rolled.

And then I wake up and I would hate the stuff because I hated it. I hated it because of what I saw was in a kid, but it was a real farce. And it was a real addiction, too, because I was, you know, like I said, I would hate it. I wouldn't have the guy's number. But as soon as they made the call, I was like, get out of the way. And even my best friends, like I said, were in them. I had to hide it from it. But I was, I had multiple other arrests.

I have a couple of DWIs. I have a couple of assaults, which I'm not proud of. But this is the path I was on. This is who I was becoming. And fast forward, you know, I was a career bartender at a young age, too. So I went out to Montauk. I spent all my summers in Montauk. And I, like, ramped it up even more out there.

But I started bartending in summers. And then I had a beautiful idea that I would bartend my mom. I'm talking to summers and I bartend Key West Florida and then the winters. I went to Key, I never applied to a college at a high school. I ended up playing one year of junior college baseball upstate New York. The first year out of high school, I went on spring break to Key West. I moved there a few months later and that's how it was. That was my mindset. I was bartending. I was bartending in Port Washington and some guy worked on Wall Street. So what are you doing here, kid? Like you're awesome. You're sales. You should come to work on Wall Street.

and you kill it. And I was like, all right, what do I have to do? You know, call the word for me and you go take this test and we'll go from there. And so I went to work at this, he called like a chop shop, like kind of like Wolf of Wall Street type of stuff, which I didn't know. And in fact, it's so Wolf of Wall Street. Like the guy, what's his name, Jordan Blank, Jordan Belfort, you know, he owned the firm. I didn't know it. I never met him in person.

Oh, the cousins did work for him. But this is like one of his firms, I guess. one of his underlings that I worked at. And I went and it was a wacky place. And listen, there's a bit of naivity there, but I really didn't know what was going on. And all I was there was the cold call and to take my Series 7. And what I did was I took tests and I failed it the first time,

the second time I passed it. And I started dating this great girl. And her brother worked at a real Wall Street firm, one of the big Bulls Brackets, City Group. And long story short, I got this test, these guys, like threatened me. If you pass your test, you know, and you leave here, we're going to come to your house with baseball bats.

I was young. I was like, I hope you show up. Please show up. I'll be ready for you. And I left. I got a job at a real bulge where I got my foot in the door with no, no college degree, no anything. And I got my foot in the door at Solomon Smith-Borne.

It was the name of the place. It's now sitting here now. And it was a real firm. It still is. It's one of the oldest Wall Street firms in the country in the world. So I'm working there, and I bring this up, too, because there's a story here. Like, I couldn't even answer an email. I remember getting my first email, and I had the whole thing on caps.

And I was just like, yeah, what do I do? I'll figure it out. And I'm like, who hired this guy? What's wrong with him? So anyway, don't forget, I'm at this. It's my first real job. This is my first real job where I have a salary. I have weekends off.

I have health benefits. And so I'm there. I start there February 2001. And this is, I've done it. It's less than half a mile. I say it's eight blocks. I think it was less than eight blocks just north of the World Trade Center. So I start there in February.

And I'm there and we all know what happens in September 11th, two of that same year, 2001. And I'm right down the street. And they abandoned our building. They evacuated our building. And we walk out and we're looking up. And right there is the Twin Towers, both of them on fire. And you saw the mayhem and all the chaos, people running away. And I was right in the middle of that.

I was right down there. We got out of there. Never forget what the buildings actually felt. That was a surreel. I'm thinking about it right now. I haven't thought about it in a while. But, you know, when that happened, you know, I used to, I used to think at least I wanted to, like, have a family and start a family. And I lost everything for a while after that happened.

I was, I don't want to bring a family into this world. And I say, I said it barely had to ask. I wasn't able to keep a steady girlfriend. So, anyway, I'm at this job. And like I said, I started there in February. That happened in September. And this is the first job, too, where I can literally call in sick. This was a new concept for me.

I was like, oh, I'm calling sick. And I started calling sick all the time. And then I started not calling sick. And then I started getting in trouble because I go on vendors and that wouldn't show up. And this one time, it was a Thursday night. I went out with a bunch of guys on the desk. Now, I'm going to support role too. like I'm supporting the equity traders, the sales traders.

It's like what all the action is. It's where you want to get to. You want to be a trader or a sales trader, cover accounts. And I was in the support role. So they would do all the trades and I would do all the booking for it. So I was invited to go out on Thursday night. And I was hanging out with everybody. And just like my M.O. was at this point.

I would hang out and then I would go on my own because there was no one that can really go with the level that I wanted to go to. And I went out hard. And I went out all night. and I didn't go to sleep and I didn't show up the next day and I got very nervous. They were calling my house and I was ignoring phone calls and I went back out 11, 12 o'clock in the afternoon all day and went on. This is, I think, what you call a bender, right? So I went out all weekend and went into Monday and the fear is just building, building because I'm like probably blowing this job as we speak right now.

But I'm in it. Now it's the only thing that can keep me out of this, out of that fear mindset is just to keep on booze, whatever. else I was down, the ecstasy or cocaine at the time. And I was just really partying my ass off. And I was over. I would go. I find my buddies. And then I would just, I would just keep going. And then finally, I get a call on Tuesday. And I'm coming off. And it was actually, there was a message on my parents answering machine. I said, Gary, if you are there, if you are alive, if you are alive, you need to contact us. Otherwise, your position is going to be terminated. And so I thought really quickly on my feet.

And I remember hearing somewhere that, if you have a problem, like they can't fire you. I had it like in the back of my head. So I call them up. And I said, I said, oh, let me just back up one point. There was a, it was a FedEx letter. FedEx guy knocked on the door. I opened it.

And I opened the letter. I'm sorry. It was on the answer machine, but the letter said those exact words, you need to contact us within these 24 hours or else your position is terminated. and we don't know if you're even alive. So I called them up and I said, yes, I'm alive and I have a problem with drinking and I need to go away and I need to go to a rehab.

And they said, all right, I call. Here's HR. Do what you got to do. And so my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, and that's totally another story that she stuck with me through all of this. And that is just another blessing. I mean, beyond words at this point. But just to keep this where we are in the story. So I go up to upstate.

She found a rehab upstate New York. It was called St. Christopher's. Upstate New York. It was called The Miracle on the Mountain and it was run by a bunch of friars. She and my mom and my sister, they drove me up there on the very next day. They got me in bed. And I walked into this rehab. It was all men's rehab.

And I thought my life was all right. I said, now you really fucking did it. Now you did it. Look where you are. You're in a rehab. You know, I had a carton of cigarettes. That's all I did was smoke butts. And it was the first time in my life I went to an A&A.

And that was April 2002. So that was from September to April, September 11th to April 2002, it was just the total. It was just really fast going down hard. And I went away, I went to re-rehab to this rehab. And it really was an amazing place. And I stayed here for 30 days. And it was the first time I went to an A-A meeting. It was an A-A meeting every single day.

and I can remember it vividly right this very same, saying, I'm Gary, I'm an alcoholic, and I only said it because I had to. But I can remember it right now. I'm Gary and an alcoholic, thinking my life's over. My life is completely over. Yeah, everything that I knew is done. Your friends are gone, your job's probably still gone,

and what have you. So I went to this rehab, and I didn't really, I didn't, I feel like if I'm being honest, I have to be honest. In hindsight, I was hiding out up there. And I was just getting through those 30 days. I didn't know what was going to happen on day 31. But all I was told was I have to get to a meeting as soon as I got home.

And all I really did was smoke butts and go to these or rehab thing to do at rehab and work on yourself. I got a lot out of it. I did. There was a lot of really positive stuff there. But my journey and my path that wasn't ready and I was not ready to surrender. And I came back home. And I never put nine days together. And I went back out.

And now I'm at a point where people even close to me, my family, my girlfriend, even my boys who, like, I party with, they're like, dude, you're on a different level. Like, you're going to fucking die. And I was just like, I was just defiant. And I was like, you're either with me or you're not with me. And I really don't care what team are. This is who I am. This is who I'm in a base.

You can come along. I don't care for them to see you again. I was interviewing. really, really bad place. And I'm not like that. I'm a loving person. I really, really am. But that's how I was. And I was in and out. And I went to AA a little bit in and out for the next few years. And fast forward to where 2002, I'd said I was in and out for four years. 2006, May 13th, or May 12th, I should say. I was sitting in my apartment. I was living in New York City at the time. And I was just sitting all alone in my apartment, a studio apartment,

in the West Village, drunk as a skunk. And I was thinking, what do you want to do with yourself? Is this what you want to do? Is this who you're going to be? Is this who you are? Because I can have all the best intentions and I have this maybe vision of who I used to be

or who I wanted to be. I'm not that person now. Like this person is who you are now. And I mentioned my mom. She's one at 10. She has seven brothers and two sisters. I'm the first grandchild in my mom's side of the family. And I have 21 younger cousins. And at the time, I think I'm 26 or 27 in time. I remember thinking about all my cousins, like my younger cousins, because they looked up to me. They did. I was the oldest cousin. I was the first kind of grandchild. And I remember thinking, like, is this what you want them to see? Is this what you want? Is this the role model you want to do? be for them. I don't know why to this day I was really thinking about them but something came all to me, Brad, that I just, I didn't want to live this way anymore. I didn't want to do it anymore. And I always said even in those four years that there will be a time where I have to stop drinking.

Yeah, that's clear, but I'm never going back to AA or any of those places. Never. I'll do it on my own. And I don't know what happened on May 13th the next day. I just found myself calling information, calling the inner group in New York City, and I went to a meeting May 13, 2006. And for the first time in my life, as far as the meetings go, I didn't sit in the back, I didn't show up to wait, I didn't leave early, I didn't say I went to a meeting, I went to the front.

When a stranger came, here's my phone number, give me a call. Every instinct in my body and how I was brought up, when some guy comes up and gives you his phone number, it says, give me a call, your intent is get up. Like we, we, that, that's, that goes against all of my instincts. But I just had as, it's working for these people. I'm going to, I'm going to do what they tell me to do. And so I started kind of just going to meetings and they'd give you a pamphlet back then before there was,

maybe I wasn't fluent on the, on Google yet, but they gave you a pamphlet and had all the meetings in New York City. And even I think it was New Jersey along out. That was May. So the next couple months, all they did every single day was go to work, come home and see, what meeting I was going to go to and I go to a meeting. And I started finding meetings that I liked and I started meeting people. And I went back out to Montauk, which like I said earlier, is a place where I'm almost like this infamous or famous like maniac out there. Everyone knew. I knew everyone, everyone knew me. And this is the first time I went to an AA meeting. And so I'm

walking around Montauk, which I probably should have just stayed away from Montauk all together at that summit. But so like I said, May was my sobriety date. We're talking. maybe this weekend or maybe June, and I'm walking around the town in Montauk, during the day, middle of the day, and people are yelling at me inside the bars and I'm going to get in here. You know, I'm like, and I was like, I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to make it. And this is where I'm going to be. I'm going to fail at this again.

That was really fair, free. I really was. I went to a meeting in Montauk that night. And it was probably 100 people at this meeting. It was a big meeting. I could really have visions of growth. I said, hundreds of people. at this meeting, but this guy spoke.

And like I said, I was, honestly, I was so scared all day long. I was just so scurly. I was like, I'm not going to make it. It was like minute by minute. And this guy spoke and I love everything he said. As soon as he was done speaking, I stood up. And I was like, I'm Gary in an alcoholic and I was like, I need you. You got to help me.

And they're like, all right, calm down. We'll come talk to you after the meeting. And I was like, no, I need you. You don't understand. No, we do. Just calm down, man. It's going to be all right. Let's get through the meeting and we'll come talk.

come talk, can find me up to the meeting. So I did. So the meeting ended and I immediately went up to him and he had a crew with him. I remember him telling me, I was like, I was telling him when I'm telling you how, I'm like, I'm not going to make it here and so on for a couple of months. I tried this for 40 years. I'm like, I don't think I'm going to make it. And then the guy said to me, his name was Phil.

He's like, don't worry, what get you to stop drinking? And I was like, what? I got that chip in my shoulder came. I was like, do you know who you talking to? What do you mean you get me to stop drinking? what are you talking about? I got pissed because

no one's able to get me to stop drinking. You don't even know me. Like, you don't know me. How could you tell me? Don't worry. All you have to do is not drink tonight. And if you feel like you're going to drink tonight, call me. And if you don't drink to, if you're going to drink, you have to call me.

I said, all right, fine, I can do that. If I don't hear from me tonight, all you have to do is call me tomorrow. I said, fine, I'll do that. And so I made it through that night. and I called him the next day and he was like we were all praying you were going to call me this morning

and I'm so happy you called he's come over we're going to go through the book and that guy became my sponsor and he was a part of the Atlantic group in New York City which is like a big big group in New York City

still is there's a lot of people in this there's probably well north of 500 people in this group honestly and it was very structured they did fun stuff and I just whatever this guy told me

I did for the first time I am as stubborn as they come. You tell me it's black. I'm just wired to say, no, it's white. You tell me to go that way. I'm wired to say, F you, I'm going that way. But I was like, I got to just, I got to listen this time. This guy's sober.

I want to be sober, I guess. I didn't even know what that meant. All they knew is I didn't want to drink it. Just couldn't drink it. I didn't want to live my life that way. And so I say all this, I haven't even told this whole entire cumulative story. It's so long like this, which is, I think it's just so beautiful about what you're doing what I want to do down the row as far as podcasts.

You take away all the trouble and trauma or whatever, right? Through this time before, before May 6th, before May 13th, 2006, I would sit on my desk for years. I would sit on my desk at this job at Citigroup talking to myself all day long that I'm not going to drink tonight. I'm not going to drink tonight. I'm not going to drink tonight because I went out so hard the night before. And then 12 o'clock comes, you start feeling a little bit better. Yeah, but I'm still not going to go out to me. I'm not going to go out.

Like literally sweating at my desk, young guy in his 20s saying, talking to himself, I'm not going to go out tonight. I'm not going to go out tonight. I'm not going to go out tonight. And then at 4.30, 5 o'clock, first one out, the last one home again. I did this all the time. And even now, it hurts to say that. But being that such, it's so deep in the disease when I was.

I've heard it in the rooms, which I love, and it happened to be from my sponsor. He didn't tell me about it. This is fairly recently, too. He said we were engaged in a battle every single day, and we didn't even know it. And when he said that, I was like, yeah, that was me. Like, I didn't know it. I was engaged in that battle every single day. I would take the train into commute and to work when I was living on Long Island, into the city.

And I'd be on the first train into the city. and I'd be just praying, I would pray that the train broke down so I can just sleep in this train because I didn't go to sleep again. And so that's all the, that's what got me here. There's more, there's more,

but that's a lot of the nuts and bolts of it. Yeah. But the good, the amazing part is, and how we started this, I haven't had a drink or a drug. I haven't been arrested in over 17 years. and there's so much they talk about the promises

and I hear a lot like property of AA like everything that you have is due to your recovery for me it's AA everyone else has their own things some people have AA some people don't have A but I'm in the camp of

there's no one way whatever you've got to do to not drink not do a drug hats off to you man keep doing it for me though it's it's a property of and it's the little things like so when I first stopped drinking that's all I did I left everybody

and all they did was just go to meetings then I went through the steps it's the first time I wrote down on a piece of paper all the stuff that I shared this morning I never once once I worried about my dad when I was a kid not once to one person and I did it fine

and that was hard to do because I come from a place where you don't talk you don't You don't rap. You certainly don't rat. But I had to get past that. I wasn't ratting down to anybody. I was just telling my story. And it was the first,

and now I'm sharing an opening. Now there's more people than just that first sponsor that, know that story. To pass forward a little bit, you know, I was saying it's the little things, though, that you get back. So I couldn't answer the phone.

You know, I didn't know what happened the night before. Bill collectors. Now this isn't known in sobriety. Like, I couldn't answer. answer the phone. I can tell you right now, every single time that this phone rings, I have a quick sense of gratitude because I can answer it on the first room. I am not fearful of who's calling me and what I did or what I owe or the damage I did or the destruction I did or if it's the police. I don't have those calls anymore. And it's really amazing to live right now.

I'll get a call right where we hang up. I'll feel it. I feel like, thank God, I can answer this call. Right now, to this day. That's 17 years. And I'll say another, just as far as like the promises you get and things I've been given, when I had 10 years sobriety, my wife, who's the same girl, same girlfriend, she still with me. She wrote me a card.

She gives me a card every year. But this one said, we have two children. My daughter just turned 10 last week. My son is eight. And the card said, we're so proud of you. We're so happy that you did this. Just think, if you hadn't gotten sober, our children would not even exist. It wouldn't even be in this world.

Now, my ego wants to say, screw that. That's not true, but it is 1,000 percent the truth. And that is beautiful. It's hard to take. It's hard to swallow with the same. time, but it's more beautiful than any of. And I'm part of the reason why I'm this next chapter here is I want to be like an advocate of our best lives or ahead of us. I don't care how old and young you are, like especially in our world, if you're addicted, if you're an alcoholic, if you find

sobriety like anything's possible, anything at all in a positive way. And I, and I believe that from the depths of my soul. And it's what I want to be. I want to help people believe that. I really do. Yeah, wow, that's incredible, Gary. Thanks for sharing all that with us, man. A lot of grounds you covered right there. Yeah.

And I can relate to some of the stuff too, man, get in trouble early in life. First time I got arrested, I was 16, and then I got my first felony when I was 18, and my first four or five felonies when I was 22. So I'm with you on that for that stuff. And just not doing well in school and stuff, I can relate with you 100% on that.

And just getting the party started. But I think what I find really interesting is about that moment, right, where you're sitting in the apartment, you're drinking. And something happens there. I have a story like that too. Like I can't really put all the words to it, but I was living on my brother's floor in his apartment towards the end of my using days. I had many mornings and many nights like what you mentioned too,

to where you want nothing more than just to, just stop the madness. I just don't want to do it and I don't want. And I think that's addiction in a nutshell, right? Is when you want to stop doing something and you just can't and you try to think yourself out of it and thinking yourself out of it just rarely works. Maybe for some people, but for me, I could never think my way out. I always thought my way into my worst situations.

But I had a moment like that too, man. A spiritual experience, some may call it or something. It was just like something dawned on me, man, that like I had three options. I was lived with three options. but I was going to take myself out. The substances were going to take me out. Or I was going to try this thing maybe called the sobriety of some sorts. I didn't know any sober people.

I'd been in and out of 12th step. I went to rehab for a year when I was 17. It wasn't really for substance use, but I knew of that that existed, but I didn't know what it entailed, right? And I had something like that too, man. I just reached that. What I find familiar there and what I'm trying to get out here, Gary,

is that we reached out for help on those days and we followed through with what was suggested for us to do. And I find that to be one of the biggest challenges is with this big network that I have. People are reaching out all the time. How do I get sober? How do I do this? And you can give some suggestions, right?

Check out a meeting. Maybe you need to go to rehab, detox, get a therapist, hire a coach. You talk with somebody close to you, you know, a lot of stuff. follow up with people, Gary, afterwards, and they done nothing. You know, and it's tough, right? You've probably experienced it too in 17 years, right?

But I think, I just want to hammer home. That that, I think, is what is the most important thing, right? Where you throw your hand up for help and you get suggestions and direction and then you've got to follow through with it. And from hearing your story, I think that that was, that was like the game changer that time. Yeah, I too. I can't put a total finger on what happened. in that apartment. But I can tell you for sure that something was different for me. Because I remember being sober for a few months and my aunt asking me like, how's it going this time?

You know what I mean? And I remember saying it's going okay, but something's different this time. I don't know what, but I think I've gotten somewhere on this. And again, I don't know what it is. I've heard things in the rooms where I've been given the gift of desperation or the gift of giving up, of giving up, not giving up my life, but I was told also, this is, this is semi recently. I don't know if I ever really had my suicidal thoughts, but I had clear as they thought that I wanted to lie in that puddle in some street in New York City and I wanted a bus to run me over. and I shared this with someone that was well down the path of being in this world and they're like, well, that's clearly a suicidal thought just so you know. And if you said that to some kind of doctor back then, they would have had to admit it in you. I was like, all right, well, I'm sure that's, that's accurate.

I've given the gift, the gift of surrender, that's the word. I'm sorry, that's the word I'm looking for. I could see maybe that's what I was given at that moment in my apartment. there's also this higher power, right? God component to sobriety, right? And I am a thick, I have a thick head, right? And I'm a slow learner. Excuse me.

I'm sorry about the dog. It took me so long to realize that there's a higher power component to all this. I was so like into just don't want to drink anymore. I don't want to live this way for years. Even going through, this might sound stupid. It might sound silly to you because the book is all about spirituality. And I was going through it, but I was still so like tunnel vision. I'm like, I don't want to drink.

I can't drink that like the light bulb went off on that. Like years into sobriety, four or five years. And like 10 years into sobriety is like what I really went. And I'm into stuff. I've read every self-help book you could possibly imagine. And I keep going back to one book. It's all in this book for me. So again, looking back and reflecting, like, what happened that.

And I agree. I'm glad you picked up on that point. And the people that I do speak to, those are the points that I really, that it excite me, too, that I want to discuss. Like, I was talking to a friend and he was on the floor of a, of a hotel room the night before he went to rehab. And I was like, what happened there? Describe that. And that's what you picked up on, too. So yeah, to answer that, I don't think there's a, I don't think there's like a black and white answer.

I think the answer is spirituality. I think my higher power entered in somehow. And again, I say higher power. I want to be careful. Like, because there could be people listening to this saying, well, I don't have a higher power anymore. I didn't have that moment. You don't necessarily know, like it's happening. Like you don't.

It's a long process. And we also don't know. And I would guess you can relate to. We don't even realize that we're getting better. I was sober for like a good year. And my mind was still like I'm the same person. People are like, you're doing great. You don't see how different you were.

I was like, no. Sometimes we're the last people to realize it or to see it. Or maybe we're so afraid to like give ourselves a little bit of a pat on the back or be proud of where we are. But I think we should be proud of it too. And so again, I feel like I'm not answered in that specific question. and really well, I don't know what happened. Something happened in that apartment that night.

Something did. Yeah. And I spilled all my booze out the next day. Never did that before either. Spilled it all out. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm incredibly grateful that that did happen, right? That gift of desperation to is interesting, right?

Because I've been thinking a lot recently about, like, how can people get to that faster? The part that sucks about that, Gary, and the part that makes it a gift. It can make it challenging, right? Because then you've got to hit like this sort of this spot to where your life is in shambles to where you can accept maybe a gift of desperation. I'm desperate to get out of this situation because it's so terrible. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm thinking, just wonder if there's a way to convey a message to other people that how can we turn this ship around before it gets there? Or can we?

I don't know. Do people have to go through? some stuff. I've heard so many different stories. I know some people, it doesn't all completely burn to the ground and we all have our own sort of bottoms, quote unquote, in a sense, whether it's an internal or it's external consequences. But what are your thoughts? So my thoughts are, and I love speaking about this stuff, is I think we can tell people, or we can let them know to an extent, to a certain extent. You can't share what you have and what you've got. and how you feel right now and just hand it off to someone. But you can, and I think your podcast, can inspire and can open up a door a little bit for someone to realize that they don't have to live this way. You don't know what that means.

You don't need to have some kind of white cloud moment. You don't need to be sitting all of a sudden something comes and says, I don't want to live this way or one of my cousins. You know, that doesn't need to happen. It's different for everyone. And I say this all the time. and I say this always thinking about the newcomer coming into the room, wherever that room may be. There's not a big sign when you walk into a rehab or you walk into an AA meeting.

There's not as big sign that says, come on in. You can completely change your life around. Like, that's not what happens. Listen, there's people in here that used to not be able to stop drinking and they've come here and they've stopped drinking. And that's like why we go there. but what we get is a completely a complete new lease on life like i am my life is a complete 180 from where it was from the path i was on and it's not binary like that you don't just walk in and say here's the path i'm on if i go here everything's going to look better and we don't even

overlook it looks better we better our own internal demons as it is even in sobriety like we've we That's a, I think that's an entirely different topic. My message that I hope to convey with some of the things that I'm working on with my podcast is, I want people to realize that are maybe on the fence or, you know, if I can do it, if Brad can do it, can do it, that anyone can do it. You don't need for this to happen, just whatever it may be. I can speak to AA because AA's worked for me and I've been to rehab. Rehab's work.

Oh, like, things work. I can certainly share how eight days work for me. Don't drink and go to meetings today. Just for today, this whole notion of living in just today. It's really hard, but when I am there, I am at my best. What's that beautiful poem? It's like the future is a mystery, the past is history. That's why we live in the moment.

That's why it's called the present. It's a gift. Just living today. All of my fears. 99.99% of my fears that I have today are projections, or future projections of what happens if this happens or or this is how am I going to get through that? No, just stay right here. And for the newcomer, like, I can tell any newcomer. I will tell them that. Go to that room, do what strangers tell you and you completely change your life. You completely change your life there if that's what you want. I got here because I didn't, I don't want to drink anymore.

I got here because I don't want to live that way anymore. And those are the big messages that you're not alone and you don't have to live that way anymore. Keep it simple, stupid for this, the kidded guy is a big deal. And so I fully, fully believe that we can, we can convey that message. Now we can use the statistics, right? Like you said, and I've spoken to so many people and they're in a place and they want to know like, How do I do this? Because they're there and maybe they feel better a couple hours later the next day.

And they don't need that calling. Yeah, I'm okay. I'm good now. They'll come back. They're definitely, you know, they're going to come back again because if you think you're not, and this is, this is so true. If you think you're an alcoholic, if you think you have a problem, most likely, you do. So I would scream that from the rooftops, but you can totally change your life.

And you can change your life at any time. I got friends that are in their 70s that are sober for a couple of years. I admired the shit out of them. I got friends that are early, early 20s that are so ahead of the game and they're so in it that it's beautiful. And those are the other gift, too. I mentioned being able to answer the phone. My wife and what she's my girlfriend, like her family was begging her to get away from me, which rightfully so, I earned it.

over and over and over again. What are you doing with this guy? He's just going to keep leaving, and he's not safe also. Loose Canada at his best this guy. He's trouble. And now I am super tight with all of her siblings and my mother-in-law.

But when there's like real, something real, especially with something to do with ranking for sure, I'm the one that gets that phone call, that real-life phone call. And there's nothing that makes me feel better. Like, nothing at all. And that's what keeps me here, you know, And that's been like part of my, like I want to help more people.

Like I wish I had more sponsees and this and that. And there's other ways to help people. You are can help people at scale sitting right where you are in front of that microphone right now. And being all over the place where I see it. And I think it's, I think it's fucking beautiful and it's something I want to do. And yeah, we'll get for. And it says in the book, we'll get frustrated for, I'm sure you've had maybe sponsorsies, right, that worthy for a while than they left.

It's out of our hands. All we can do is share what's been given, freely given to us. And that's how I go about it. And as long as I'm here. And like I said, I'll say it again, shout from the retops. Yeah, this says no drink and go to meetings. Go there. You can completely change your life around.

Read the book. Get a sponsor. Do what they tell you and call them every day. Yeah, I love that. And just to wrap up here, man, this has been incredible too. Where are you at now? What are things like for you now? What are you up to? I hung on to that job at Solomon spent burning all those years back. And go figure, maybe it was a coincidence, but three or four months into being sober,

I actually got promoted at that spot. And I moved up and I got to become one of those traders that I wanted to be, I thought a lot of being. Now, life's amazing. I am in the same career as for the past, I don't even know how many years now, 20-something years I've been doing us. I work for a Brazilian investment bank now. I do Latin American equities. It sounds sexy and interesting, but it's very similar as anything on New York Stock Exchange or anything like that. But that's my job. I have, I mentioned I have a family. I have a beautiful, loving family. I'm so devoted to. And it's really all, everything I do is for them. But I am super active in, again, for me, in AA. I go in meetings four or five,

times a week. I am part of a big book study where I probably read the big book in a group form I probably get on close to 20 times now. I have a sponsor I call every day. I have spontees. Like I say, I wish I had more. I start my day every single day in prayer on my knees. That's the first thing I do. And my prayers are prayers of gratitude. Thank you for this day. Thank you for being with me and thank you for being within me, and please let me help someone today. I'll share one other thing I guess I had, and it's in sobriety.

I just had this, that anniversary too. In May 23rd, four years ago, I was walking to the train and I'm in relatively good shape, I'm in a decent shape, and I had a woodemaker heart attack, didn't know what was happening, and I almost died,

and obviously I didn't. And I mentioned that because that was a big event for me as well as far as my life and now I have other fears. I look at myself in pictures of my family. I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad. But I use so many of the tools that I learned in sobriety to get through that. And it's gratitude, right?

It's living in today. And I mentioned the fears and the projections. I will. I feel like something in my chest, I get scared. Do I have something wrong with my heart? You know what? You're okay right now. You're okay.

today. And so I live my life that way. It is far from perfect. But I start every day on my knees, like I said, I finish all my knees thanking him for the gift of sobriety. For those new people, too, this is what I'll bring this up to for people new. When I was early on, I was told, get on your knees and ask God to melt like to give you the gift of sobriety today, see what happened. And I pray. I said, please don't want to drink today. Remember the first day I didn't drink. or holy shit that worked. And at the end of the day, I said,

thank you for no letting me, thank you for giving me the gift of sobriety today. And I did it the next day. And I still do it. There's something bigger at work here. There's definitely a huge spirituality part of this program.

Was that a part of your life before this? No, that's why I was bringing it all up. I never, it were prayers and church and yeah, I went and I made my community and confirmation, but no, I never, ever said a prayer,

aside from Foxhole prayers I'll get me out of this one. I promise I won't do this again or yada yada yada. Yeah, I'm going to only going to do it the very next night or next week. But no, that was not a part of who I was. It's so much. I say this too a lot, Brandon. I came in, like, I was an adult in statute, but inside I was just a scared little boy. And I became an adult, and I became a man in sobriety.

Things like integrity and responsibility and doing the right thing, even though sometimes the right thing is difficult. just doing what's right. And these are all things that I learned in sobriety. And it's just such a better way of life. And anyone can change your life rather for the better 100%. Yeah. Just with you sharing there too, man.

It just hits home that it's just more about not. It's more, there's more to it than just not drinking. It's about learning to live. And that's where I got stuck, Gary, for years. I got stuck for years that it was about, of course it had to be the drugs and the drinking. It had to be those were caught. I was getting arrested. I was, you know, any problem with because of those.

And then when I was able to like actually understand that, that it, I had gotten sober like hundreds of times over and over. You know what I mean? I would dry out, whatever. And in my life was still extreme disaster. That's when it sort of clicked that everything came to a head there that this was not about the. substance. This was about what I was seeing in the mirror. And once I understood that, I was able to start really working on those, on that stuff, man. But I wanted to ask you, too, before we, before we jump here, how do you not buy into the idea that after 17 years, you're good,

man? I mean, Gary, you're cured. You're on your way. Why? Like, how do you keep the practices right? Because the only reason I asked that is you've probably experienced it, too, is a lot of times people want to move on and they've hit a certain spot and they feel good about it and they want to move on from all this. Like what keeps you in the game? So that's a great question and it's an important question. Yeah, I've thought that. And I mentioned earlier, I'm a, I'm a slow learner. I'm a quick forgetter.

I can forget where I was and that's not a good place to be. Yeah, I've had thoughts of, I'm there now. Like, how bad was I? How bad was it? Was it really up bad? And that'll do a little bit of research. Maybe I'll ask someone or I'll go back and man, it was bad. So I have two little kids when they've never seen their dad drunk.

They've never seen their dad with alcohol. In fact, I'm just starting to share with them that dad doesn't drink. My daughter's 10. They were wondering around this last anniversary, man. So it's starting to tell them a little bit. They're not ready to hear this podcast. But I know that the second that I take a sip of alcohol, the very second I take a sip of alcohol, their lives are going to be altered forever because they're going to see a different dad.

And that might sound like, come on, a sip of alcohol and it's true, one sip. But I know this for a fact about me, even taking my children away, that if I go out and have a beer right now, I might be okay. I might make it. I might be all right. I might have another beer. But I know for a 1,000% fact that whether it's today, tomorrow, maybe it's a week, maybe it's a month. I don't know when it is. It's definitely. It's definitely within six months. It's probably within a month. I will be right back where I was 17 years ago, right back. And it's only a matter of time, only a matter of time. And so I've been given this life, this new life, and I don't want to go back to that.

So that's what keeps me here. And for me, it's being engaged and staying in it. Like everyone I've seen that has had time, Brad, that has fallen off or went back out, they had those feelings and they stopped going to meetings or I stopped staying connected and they thought they had it. And they come back. And I don't know if I have another comeback. I don't know if I can go out and come back again. I admire all those people that have gone back out and they're coming back in their counting days. Like, I hugged them because I don't think I have that.

I think, I don't know if I can make it back here. I just don't. And so for me, how do I keep, like, I just, this is, this is it. And I said earlier that I want to be like an advocate of our best lives are ahead of us. Like, that's being, that's in sobriety. Like, I don't think we can graduate or we're not drawn a blank when you're sick and you're not over the disease. Like, you cure it. Right, that's the word.

I can't ever get cured. But there's not a cure. there's a solution and the solution for me is to be in my program and it starts in my program and I've heard you've got to put your program first and I believe that but that also

means putting my higher power first I have a relationship with a higher power today that I never had besides those fox fox whole prayers and he got me out of those like I talked to him back then too but now I talk to them differently maybe I can let me help someone today

please let me help one person today So that's what keeps me here Because I know if I go back out It's just a matter of time that it's over But I know in here That anything's possible in a good way Like I can account And there's I have more dreams and goals now

Going on 49 That I ever did my whole life I think that's beautiful I get it. It all starts here If I feel like I got this licked And I'm just a matter of time DWI It's a matter of time

Jail all of it And that's at its best that that's for fact and i am super grateful that that is emblazoned on my brain as a fact because like i said i am a thick-headed dude and i like to do things my own way and i'm just super grateful that that one right now is is blazing on my head like i said it's a fact so that's what keeps me here man and i want to help people that's the other thing that's what's really keeping me here now i want to help people. There's this whole movement. I just recently found them, like alcohol-free. You don't necessarily need to have a disease or addiction, but they're realizing how bad alcohol. I had a love

affair with partying and alcohol. I can't stand it now. I hate it because it ruins lives and it ruins families and the collateral damage of the addicted or the person with the disease that affects so many people. I hate it. I do. And so I want to help people, man. And that's that's that's that's really, I think that's like my kids, for myself and helping people. That's why I'm still here. And also, I'm going to keep going. Yeah. Beautiful, Gary. Thank you so much, buddy. I really appreciate you sharing all this incredible insight, man, with us today. Dude, I think people are going to walk away listening to this, man, really feel inspired, really feel hopeful and really believe that, like, it's possible for them if they're struggling. No, absolutely. I appreciate it. Man. I'm so glad we got to

hook up and talk today and I really appreciate your time and let me come on here, man. I love what you're doing. Seriously, you're one of the guys looking up to right now. I look forward to starting a long-term relationship together, man. Really. Yeah, beautiful. Thanks, buddy. Well, another incredible episode in the books. I hope that we can gain some inspiration from Gary's story. 17 years is really incredible. and the fact that Gary still plugs into his program every single day might be even more incredible because I think at times we feel like we have this thing beat

and I think it's always important to remember that we're really only one decision away from being back to exactly exactly where we were and most people if they start back up they find themselves in a much worse off position So just something to keep in mind. Look, if you're enjoying the show and you'd love to support it, go over to buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation.

You can drop a donation there. Everything is put back into the show for editing, for equipment, for hosting, and all the different costs that are involved in keeping this thing alive. So thank you so much for your support and everybody who has donated. It means the world. It truly does. I hope that you're enjoying the show. have any feedback or insights for me, or you'd like to be on the show, send me an email.

Brad at Brad T. McLeod.com, M-C-L-E-O-D. And I hope to see you on the next one.