Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Hilary Phelps struggled with negative thoughts of self and found drinking alcohol would quiet the voices in her head.

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

On this weeks episode we have Hilary Phelps.  She had a great childhood and starting swimming very young and always wanted the biggest trophy. Early on she had this feeling of never being good enough.  Alcohol would quiet the negative voices in her head and that was enough to get the ball rolling. Hilary has been sober for 15+ years  and this is her story on the sober motivation podcast. ------------ Follow Hilary on Instagram HERE Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram HERE Download SoberBuddy APP HERE Donate for Podcast HERE

Welcome back to season two of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. On this week's episode, we have Hillary Phelps. She had a great childhood and started swimming Barry Young and always wanted the biggest trophy and to be the best. early on she had this feeling of never being good enough. Alcohol would quiet the negative voices in her head,

and that was enough to get the ball rolling. Hillary has been sober for 15 years, and this is her story on the Sober Motivation podcast. This episode is brought to you by Sober Buddy. The Sober Buddy app is incredible. People are connecting on there every single day and in supporting each other on their recovery journey. Check out the Sober Buddy app today at your Soberbuddy.com or your favorite app store.

Join the community and get plugged into the 10 plus live support groups per week. And maybe my favorite group of the mall is Wednesday night where we bring in a guest to share their story of recovery with the community live on Zoom. So come and check us out and I hope to see you there soon. Before we jump into this week's episode, I want to give a huge shout out to Chris B. Chris was a recent supporter on the Buy Me a Coffee page to support the cost of editing this podcast. Chris writes, Brad and Friends, I just wanted to buy you coffees today to say thank you for three days sober. One coffee for each day. It would not have been possible without help from folks like you and your podcast that has inspired me to get help and begin my recovery journey.

I am grateful. Chris B, thank you so much for supporting the show. show and I'm happy to hear that it's been helpful on your journey and a huge congrats on three days. Now let's get to the show. Welcome back to another episode of the sober motivation podcast. Today we've got a really cool guest. Hilary Phelps is with us. How are you doing today? I am fantastic. Thank you for asking. How are you? I'm well. I'm ready for this springtime started here in Canada. The snow is starting to melt so like good things are to come. We haven't had any accumulation of at all in the DC. I'm in Washington, D.C., nothing. Like, maybe a dusting, but like, nothing.

Kind of bummer. Awesome. So why don't you start us off with what it was like for you growing up? You know, it sounds kind of boring, but it was pretty normal. I mean, what is normal? I mean, it was the great life. My parents were high school sweetheart. And they got married after college. And I was the first born of three. My mom was 25. We built this dream house in the middle of the woods in the middle of nowhere. And we had a great life. We played outside. rode bikes, played in the stream, crayfish, like all the fun things that you do with a child.

And I started swimming really young. My whole family swam, come from a family of swim. You know, I started swimming and my sister followed, my brother followed. And I think one of the telltale signs, or a joke is that I did summer swimming first. And I went in and I got third place. And my mom was like, that's great. And I was like, I want the big trophy. I want the big one.

Like more is better, you know. And so my mom's like, if you want the big trophy, you have to swim year round because that's how you get the big trophies. she has to practice more. And I was like, okay, great, sign me up. And so I did. And so I was a straight-A student. I was the fastest swimmer in the country at age 11 and 12. I was tracking with this attorney was Janet Evans. I was a distant swimmer. She was a distant swimmer. I was tracking her times. I made nationals really young. And then around that time, someone that says me, well, if you studied more and practiced harder, you would be better at both. And like, inside my little mind, I was like, but I'm the best. I'm the best at swimming at my age. I get straight A's. Like, I can't do better. So there's something that's like, well, you're not good enough. And so something in that like triggered this, you're not enough. And in that moment, it was like I'm not smart enough or funny enough or pretty enough or fast enough. Like nothing I do is good enough. And so it kind of flipped the switch. And I started doing things that I thought would bring me that feeling of joy that I once found from being enough. And it started off like the debaucher, you know, the life of chasing the next high. I started drinking. We moved. I got a boundary exception. We did. all the things because I was swimming early. My dad would drive me to practice in the morning from

five to seven. I got a boundary exception to go to a different school so I could continue training with this other club. We moved all of this stuff. And they started hanging out with different people. I started experimenting with drugs. And then I started drinking. And I didn't like the taste. It was beer. I grew up in Maryland in Baltimore. It was lacrosse players. And so that was the cool sport. And I thought that would make me cool. Like if I hang out with cool people, then that makes me cool. And so I started drinking beer and I didn't like it. And then I started drinking this. It's called Irish Rose wine.

Irish's Rose. It's disgusting. It's called Night Train. I think we called it freight train because we got like ran over every time we drank it. But it's so bad. I'm just wondering there if I could for a second. What's fueling all of this? So the part of you not being good enough, did you find in the drinking, in the connecting with other people?

Did you find maybe a short term solution to the feeling of I'm not good enough? I think I just stopped caring. If I look back, it either quieted that voice of like, you're not good enough with effort. It doesn't matter anymore because I feel good in the moment of drinking. But I found that it's just kind of quieted those negative voices in my head. Now, looking back with what I know, like, was it depression? Was I struggling with depression at that age and then self-medicating and with the gene? You know, it escalated.

Like, who knows? But in those moments, I just felt a quiet reprieve from those. voices that said, you're not enough. Yeah, wow, powerful. Yeah, it's always interesting looking back, because then we could maybe have a better understanding. Hindsight's always 20, 20, right, to what went on, or at least have a better guess at it. But I hear this a lot, too, and I can relate to my own story, too, of that unworthiness, just not feeling like enough, just objection in so many different areas and maybe success here, but then it's not fulfilling that void, or it did work, but it was just so short term for me. I think that's the case. Like the more people I've talked to that manage their

addiction, that live with addiction or have that like not enough. Even like high level athletes, everybody has that like there was something in them that was telling them that they weren't enough. And for me, that was something that really fueled the drinking and the drug use and the, I say debauchery, you know, but like those behaved like just the things that I wouldn't do because I was self-seeking. I was seeking like validation. I was seeking just something. that made me feel enough and a part of. And I don't know if drinking made me feel a part of, but it made me feel less disconnected. Yeah, and it's funny. I mean, not funny. Ironic, but there are like 20 people in my high school class that are in recovery. Or of the core friend group, a couple of

overdose, a couple didn't make it, but it's wild, you know, and that's the thing. It's like now everybody knows somebody that either struggles with addiction, you know, with the family member, a friend personally, like, it's so widespread. But the girl I used to drink with is the one that kind of started to get me and thinking about the process of getting sober is I'd gone through college and college for me was a huge breeding ground for my alcohol because like anybody wants to drink at any given moment. You know, you can always find somebody that's willing to party at any given time. I was a swimmer when I was at college like love to drink. We love to party. And so it was really easy to find someone to do that way. I was a blackout drinker. But I didn't know that I was

the only one that was blacking out. Like I assumed because I was in college that everybody was having the same struggles of being able to get up in the morning, but I would still go to practice. I would still go to class. Like, my grades weren't great, but I still managed to get through. And I just saw college as one big party. I was like, that's what it is. It's not really to learn. Like, nobody needs college. You just go for fun. And when I got out of college, I continued to drink like I did in college. I was blacking out. I was waking up with bruses and scrapes and not remembering how I got home that night before, not knowing where I was when I woke up the next day. And those things started to feel really scary. And this is around the time.

time of MySpace. Do you remember MyScape? Yeah, of course. The original social media. And so a friend of mine who I drank with had put on there, like it's like, do you drink and do you smoke? Were two other questions on there? And she put no.

I'm like, she's lying. And so I messaged her. And I was like, wait, why do you have no? Like we used to drink together. And she's like, oh, I got sober. And I was like, what? And the thing that resonated the most with me is she says, look, your elevator is going down and you can choose to get off at any time.

because it's not going to go out. Like, it's not going to get better. It's going to continue to get worse. And so that stuck, that was something that helped get me into. It took a couple of, but that was something that really resonated. Then once I got into the program and 12 steps, you know, it's like the elevator's going down, but the steps are it takes you back up to the top, which I really liked. Yeah, wow, I love that.

And it's so true. You know, as we go through it, at least I did. I thought I could try this or I could change this up or change up the drink or change up the time and change up the job or the girl. friend changed. I would try to do different things to keep this dream alive. I wanted so badly to have drugs and alcohol be part of my life because I didn't know what the other side looked like. It had kind of become my norm where I was most comfortable. And then the insanity kicks in about, you know, we're talking about looking back when I look back. You can clearly see the madness. Right. I mean,

because I was a wine drinker and I was like, well, alcoholics don't drink wine. So I don't have a problem because alcoholics drink. The idea of alcoholics drinking whiskey out of a brown paper bag, like that's what an alcoholic is. I'm not because I, yes, and so doing all the things, you know, I'm like, okay, maybe I'll only drink when I go out and I won't drink at home. And then I was like, that doesn't make sense because then I have to still get home. So I'll only drink at home, which meant it was really bad, you know,

because then I'm drinking by myself. I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'll just have one bottle of wine before I go out. And then I'll have the other bottle when I come home. But, I mean, yes, you try to like jump through all these soups. Maybe it's not the wine. maybe it's, I need to switch to liquor because liquor, you know, and none of those things worked. And then it was also perpetually chasing that desire to get that perfect buzz or that perfect high, you know, like that one time, it's really great.

And then they're like 20 times because when I poured alcohol in my body, I never knew what me I was going to get. It could be the funny Hillary. It could be the sad Hillary. It could be the really angry Hillary. It could be a mixture of all three. And it's funny. I was telling someone that today that knows me that didn't know me then.

And they're like, that's so weird. And I'm like, I know. Because to your point, like, you look back and it's just madness. But there is that fear, too, that, like, life is never going to be as good as it is when I'm drinking because I didn't know anything else. And I said this before. It's like that fear and faith are both having a belief in the unknown, right? Like, you can either put that in the faith or you can put it in the fear. And I was so living in that fear space of, like, what if this is as good as it gets?

And that felt really scary. Yeah. No, I'm with you on that. Because you're stuck in that spot. I like one of the things you said from your interview I was reading before the show about a lot of people think alcoholism is a willingness thing. And you mentioned if you really want to quit, you can. But I physically couldn't stop. What exactly did that mean for you?

I mean, no matter what, I physically couldn't. I mean, it was like, so every morning I would wake up in the morning and I'd be hung over. And I would sit in the shower and I'd pull my knees into my chest and the water would be beating on my back. my kidneys would be in pain, like someone was stabbing them with a knife. And I would say, I can't do this anymore. I can't. Like, this is it. This is the last day. I'm going to stop. I can't. Like, I can't do it. And then I'd start to feel better. And then at noon, I was like, that was just a one-time thing. I'd feel fine now. And I would go back out and I would get two more bottles of wine on the way home and maybe go out that night. But he was like, I couldn't say no.

I remember the one time, I tried to go to 12-step meeting next day. And I was like, I'm not drinking tonight. And I remember feeling like I was so victorious because of one night, you know. But then there was also the physical pull towards it. Like I did try the controlled drinking. And I was like, I'm going to prove to myself that I can only have one glass. I'm just going to have one glass of wine tonight. And I had one glass of wine and I went back to bed and I'm laying there in bed. And my skin felt like it was on fire. I felt like I was burning from the inside out. You know, maybe someone felt this way before, but like just laying there. I was like, my brain. brain was going. My body felt really uncomfortable. It was in pain. My mind was just obsessing about

like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I want more, but I'm not going to have more. I promised myself, I went, you know, so I went into the bathroom and I drank a bottle of Nyquil because I was like, well, it's not technically wine, even though there's alcohol in it. But that helped me fall asleep and that helped me like quiet my mind enough to fall asleep. I'm like, well, I only had one glass. And it's like, did I? But it's like I physically could not. And then that feels like a moral failure. I heard a story the other day from a father who his daughter, she had gotten arrested, OD'd, she was in the ER, you know, all this stuff. She had a six-year-old little boy, all these things.

As soon as she got out of the hospital on a Friday, Saturday night she drank, I think it was like three bottles of champagne and had a huge rock of crack in her stomach. And he was like, I don't know what I did wrong. And I was like, you did nothing wrong. Parents didn't do anything wrong. If you're an addict, you're going to find a way to do it. it. And that to me proves that it's not a willingness thing because who would OD, who would get arrested, get her child taken away, go to the ER from an overdose, and then two days later do the same

thing again. Like it's not a choice, you know? And I feel can like get on the soapbox about this, you know, but there's like people come out of cancer treatment, you know, with the radiation and people make food and people come and take them flowers and they visit and they make sure they're okay. And but someone comes out of rehab and they're like, finally, now you can go live your life. You know what I mean? There's like a different mentality for people that are struggling with an illness that come out from treatment. And I feel like there's still that idea or that thing that it's like, oh, this is so shameful. You should just get your together. It's not that easy, you know? And we've talked just briefly touched on this before, but I feel like that relapse is just so strong after treatment or if there's not the community of people around you that can support you or people that understand.

And so I think the more people that we can get talking about it and then more people that say like, look, nobody chooses to be an addict. You know, it's like kindergarten. What do you want to be when you grow up? Nobody says, I want to be an addict and I want to struggle and I want, you know, like it's not something that anybody aspires to. But if we can get people talking about it and saying like you're not alone, I see you. I've been there. I feel it. And build that community of people that might not totally understand it but can empathize and support.

I think that's really needed today, like in the addiction community. addiction space. Yeah, so true. You bring up so many good points there about the way it's viewed too. And I see a lot of people who go to treatment, but this whole thing is like a ripple effect. So if you throw a rock in a pond of water, then it ripples out, it affects everybody, the family, friends. And then, because I used to work at this treatment center, and what I would see is that the client would go to the center, but nothing else would change around them. And not to say that their addiction is their parents' fault. And I worked with teenagers, young people. But a lot of people around could use. some therapy could use some support too in the situation to get a better understanding about

what's actually going on here to maybe approach the situation different because so often they have that conversation with people if they don't do well after treatment or they're not doing well in treatment well you're choosing to do this and you're choosing to do this and it becomes that moral issue of like hey we've raised you good you should be good and i had that i was raised good and good stuff with good parents from your story it sounds like that's the same and then it can happen to anybody, and then we get in this tough spot where we're hooked. Yeah.

And my parents said they're like, what could I have done differently? Like what, and I was like, nothing. I would have found a way if I didn't start experimenting at 13, 14, or, you know, it would have hit me when I'm 30. This is a huge, not a favor, but I'm grateful that I got sober at 29 and not started drinking at 30 and then like imploded my life at that point. It would have happened eventually.

The timing is the timing. But yes, for parents, it's like, wasn't my parents' fault. Like, they could have done the complete 180 and I still would have. But yes, to your point, it's like, I think people struggle with knowing like what to say and they want to say the right thing. And sometimes it's not or they want to be funny. And it's like, that's not helpful either. But I think that's something that we need.

Yeah, just having more empathy, I think, right? That goes back to like the cancer or, you know, if someone is diabetes, you're not like, well, why aren't you having dessert? You can't just have one bite. You know what I mean? Like, where it's an alcoholic or an addict or someone that's like, I'm not drinking. I'm sure you've seen this. It's like the only. rug that we have to justify not using.

Nobody says like, we're the weirdos. Yeah, we're losing not to. And it's like, because I don't want to. Why? Do you have a problem? Yes. Oh. You know, in treatment, they said you can't fit sobriety into your life. Like, everything around it has to change. People places things where you go. You don't go to a barbershop unless you're getting a haircut. What is that? Have you heard that thing? Like, you don't. If you stay long enough at the barbershop, you're going to get a haircut. Something like that. You know, basically saying if you go into environments that are not good for you, eventually the outcome could be not good for you to. Like if you go hang out at a sports bar, you're a first week sober and you do that every Sunday.

Like there's a probability that you could find yourself drinking again type idea, right? Yeah. I have to do all of those things. Like change people places, things. And that was also a learning curve because it's like, well, what do I do on a Saturday? What do I do on a Friday night? And you know what I used to do? So I used to go to meetings.

When I first got sober, I lived in Washington, D.C., a studio apartment, and I lived in this triangle, and I would either go home, work, and 12-step-homework, 12-step, homework, or my treatment center. I went to IOP was here. So it was, like, all within, like, two-mile radius. And on Friday nights, I would go to work, and if I didn't have IOP, I'd go to a women's meeting, and then I would go home and get my car, and I would drive to Target because it was open until midnight.

I don't think it's so long that. I don't know. I knew if I was hanging out at Target and walking up and down the aisles, I was not going to drink. And that's what I did until I got tired and I got my car and I drove back to D.C. parked to my garage, went upstairs, went to a meeting the next morning. Because I didn't know what to do, but I knew I didn't want to drink. And so, yeah, it's like finding those new habits and rituals to replace the ones. I just went to, it's called the Lake Nona Impact Forum. And it's in Orlando, Florida.

And they had people in health and wellness and doctors and everything from AI to psychedelics for depression. I mean, just really run the gambit of health and wellness. And more than one person in different silos said, what we need for longevity and health are community and purpose. Yeah. And addiction. So now they're saying for longevity, wellness, health. But I know that's true for addiction, right?

And so once I found my community, I feel less alone. And that's why, like your podcast, listening to, you know, other people tell their story because it makes me feel less alone where I can say, okay, maybe I don't relate to all of that, but at least I don't feel like I'm the worst person in the world. I remember going to treatment and people saying, I can't stop. And I'm like, I thought it was the only one that couldn't stop drinking. Wait, you can't stop either. I didn't have an addict or an alcoholic in my family. So I didn't know what addiction was or what it sounded like or that somebody like me could be addicted, you know, as a 29-year-old woman that had never been arrested,

still had my house, still had my job. You know what I mean? Like all those things. But what I also learned for me in the program is like, all those things are not yet because if I go back out today and I start drinking, it's very likely that I'm going to wreck my car, lose my child, go to jail, like all those things are possibilities if I start to put alcohol in my body. And I don't want those things. And so some people are like, well, are you sure you're an addict or an alcoholic? It's been 15 years. Like, I'm good. Like somebody said the other day, well, it's been that long. Do you think you can have one? And they weren't being a jerk, you know, but I was like, I don't know. No, but I'm good.

Like, I'm good here because I've worked really hard to get here and I'm happy here. I don't want to find out. I'm not missing anything by not drinking. Yeah. But I have to lose if I do. That's so powerful because I feel like I can relate to that too. It's like I did a post a while back and I can't remember what this thing said. But what I always worry about risking is that obsession starting back over again.

Because today, when I just focus about today in the next 24 hours, I don't have that obsession about the next one, what am I going to do? How am I going to structure up my day around the next one? I don't have to do that today. You know, maybe one would work out. Maybe at the end of the day, you know, something's happened and it works out. But for me, I can't risk it for that obsession to start over again because I can't do the madness again. I just honestly can't do it again. And like you said, too, I'm good. I'm not where I want to be, but I'm a lot further ahead than where I was and I'm okay with that today. Because I'm like joyful. Like I found joyful in the presence being in the moment. Because I can obsess about cookies.

I can obsess about an ice cream place that opened. You know what I mean? Like, I'm an addict, so I can obsess about anything I focus on. So I love what you just said, too. It is about being in the moment. It is about being present because, yeah, when I'm drinking and using drugs and in active addiction, I'm not thinking about anything other than next or more. When I'm drinking one drink, I'm already thinking about the next one.

And when I'm waking up, hungover, I'm already thinking about how I'm going to get a drink that night. I mean, it's constant. And that's how I tried to explain to my son, who's five, because I don't know that he fully is ready to understand, you know, but he says that. he's like, well, what is addiction? And I'm like, it's obsessing about something. He's like, I obsess about. I'm like, I'm like, I mean, likely, man, you know, because he obsesses about like his video games. And I was like, it's possible. And that used to terrify me. I mean, you said, you know, you have kids. Like, I have a son. I used to be so worried about that. Like, oh my gosh, my life is over if my son is addict. And I'm like, no, because you know what? I'm so grateful that I have all the tools to help him, whether it's therapy or treatment or 12 steps. or every book under the sun that you can want on ways so like improve your life and self help, all the things. I got an answer. And if I don't have an answer, I know where to point him.

Yeah, no, that's awesome too. I want to kind of go back here a bit if that's okay about when you got sober. When was that again? I always remember people like, I forget that year I'm on. It was seven. Okay, so you were 29 then, right? One.

Yeah. So what brought that about, though, is you're going through all this stuff, you're blacking out, you're drinking the wine and things are falling apart around you, it sounds like anyway. How does it come about to like, I'm going to give something else a shot? So I've been to 12-step meetings a couple of times. I tried it and I just wasn't ready.

I wasn't ready to give it up. I didn't really think I had a problem. It was more for other people because people were saying, like, you have a problem. You need to do this. So leading up to you making a decision to try something else, what was that like for you? Because that's a really tough point for people, right? To come to that realization that the denials.

that the denials over. There is something here that I need to do differently. It's a very scary transition. Like I'm going to go to meetings. I'm going to go to rehab. I'm going to go to detox. This is all unknown to me. So what was that process like for you?

Yes. So terrifying because it's something new, right? So for so long, for 15 years of my life, I had been drinking, putting drugs and alcohol in my system to change the way I feel for anything. I mean, I would drink wine to go to the grocery store. I would drink Bloody Mary's own Saturday morning when I would drink. woke up. Like, I mean, I never drank at work because we have the boundaries. But like, I drank and

drove a lot. I was living in Washington and my family lives in Baltimore. I'm like, and this is embarrassing to admit, you know, but I was like, ah, it's a long drive and I might get bored. So I'm going to drink a bottle of wine. It's like, that makes no logical sense. I was terrified because I also thought that once I gave up all of those things, like my life was over. Like my life would cease to exist. I wouldn't have any fun. I would never laugh again. Only old men in trench coats go to 12-step meetings in basements of churches. Like, no, thank you. I found one, and I was like, I'm cool. Check the box. At therapist went with me, like, thankfully. So the relationship I was in, so dysfunctional. We were in couples counseling. We've been dating for three months. Not married.

Dating. And my friends were like, just end it. Like, what? And I'm like, no. I feel like I just made everything more challenging and complicated, you know, instead of like, yeah, I should just end this relationship. But grateful and thankful, he's what got me into treatment. I feel like there's a higher purpose to having this person in my life. But he came from an alcoholic family. And so I'd gone in and out of 12 step. And I was just like, was it ready? I didn't want to do the work. I wasn't ready to give it up. I just wanted people to get off my back for a while. So then there was one night and I don't remember what happened. I don't know why. But the next day, this relationship had ended. but he called me and said,

if you don't get help, I'm going to tell your family how bad it was. And I think they knew I had a problem with drinking, but I don't know that they truly, because they don't live with me. You know, I lived with him. He saw me every day in and out, the physical pain, the emotional pain.

And I was like, well, I'm going to be really embarrassed if people know how bad it is. And I was like, fine. And I remember saying, I'll go to outpatient because inpatient is for people with real problems. And I was still kind of not there. But for me, I needed someone to hold me accountable.

And that's what I got from going to outpatient. It's IOP. And I would go in. And I remember, I even said, though, like the check-in, you kind of go around and you say, this is how my day's been, this is what, da-da. I mean going around there like, well, why are you here and not in 12-step? And I was so arrogant. And I looked at them and I was like, because 12-step didn't work and you're going to fix me.

And they were like, keep coming back. And now I look back on that moment and I'm like, that's whole. Because nobody's going to fix me. Nobody's going to fix anybody else. I'm going to fix it. People are going to help. But like, we're the ones that do the work. But I thought someone else is going to come in. And I wanted a pill. I didn't want to give up my alcohol. I wanted someone to tell me, oh, you're just, you have a mental illness or you are just depressed. I was going down everything. I was like, maybe I'm in the wrong relationships and maybe I like women and maybe not met. Like I was going down every single box. Like, I'm dating the wrong people. Like,

because I did not want to give up my alcohol. I was like, I'm in the wrong city. I'm in the wrong job. I'm in the wrong relationship. I'm in da-da-da-da-da-da. It wasn't. It was alcohol. But once I got into treatment, I kind of started to learn ways to cope.

You know, like I didn't realize I was walking through life, my shoulders at my ears, like, fists. I was just like terrified of everything and that fear and anxiety of everything. I was scared of living. I was scared of giving up alcohol. I was scared of people. I was just terrified of everything. And that anxiety and fear was really. encompassing. And so when I went in and I remember the first couple days, I still, and not to their

fault, that's how they were raised. Like my family, my mom and my dad were both raised in families where it's like, you don't talk about things, especially outside the home. Like you smile and put on a happy face, then you're okay. That's how I learned to kind of manage my struggles. And so I would just put on that happy face and I'd be like burning alive inside. But what I found, you know, after a couple days at treatment, they would go around and I was like, I'm great. I'm not drinking. I'm sleeping. I still wanted to be that, like, look good. Brad, they came to me and I am like bawling. My nose is running. My eyes are red. I'm like crying. And they're like, Hillary, how are you today? Like, not, you know, and I said, I don't know what's happening. I'm sad. I'm angry. I'm all these

things. I don't know. I'm doing. Like, I don't know how to manage them and deal with them. I don't know what's going on. I can't eat. And they clap, blah, blah. And they clap for me. And I was like, What? Why are you plopping for me? Like, I'm falling apart here. I'm dumping it. And they were like, this is healing. Good for you. You're as sick as your secrets. And the more you can share these things, the more you'll heal and the better you'll feel. And I'm like, the opposite of everything I know growing up or believed. And I was like, okay. And that was when it really started for me. Yeah. When you can kind of get to that spot to put your guard down a little bit and let somebody else in and can change things, right? Yes. And that's hard. Because,

again like when I came into treatment when I came into the rooms when I put down the drink when I thought I was the worst person in the world for the things that I had done whether that's not being able to stop drinking making bad decisions ending up and unhealthy relationships talking trash about my friends like I was not a good person I was not the person I wanted to be friends with and I could admit that now because I'm not that person anymore but in the moment that felt horrible my soul was different than my actions like who I was inside was completely different than all the things I was doing on the outside. And so there was just a conflict, right? Like a conflict of interest. It was painful. And so when I went in the rooms too, I was like, I don't want to be

friends with anybody in here because they're all like me. I can't trust anybody. My friend told me this the other day at two and a half years. I mean, it took a long time for me to kind of like, they say drop the rocks to pick up the flowers. I was continuously holding rocks in my hands because I was like, if I put these down, what am I going to do? Then what? Then I've got to trust the process. Then I about a trust that things are going to get better. And that trust is really terrified. It's the faith and fear, right? Like, where am I putting my energy in the faith or the fear? And so this woman came out to me and she's like, hey, can I get your number? And I was like, why? And she goes, I don't want to date you. I just want to have coffee with you because I want to stay sober today. And I was like, oh,

okay. My learning curve was slow. It took me a long time to get through the step. My boss sponsor, bless her, like, I would call her and I'm doing my fourth step. And I'd be like, okay, I just discovered this. This is my problem. This is why I drank. And she's like, okay, keep going. Keep writing. And it took me a year, which I don't recommend of doing that work because it felt like there was all this stuff coming up, all this painful stuff. But it came up and out and it was gone. That process was really beauty. I mean, really great. And it's like, what do they say? Like, all great change is preceded by chaos. And like right before I got sober, my life was chaotic. And before I did my fifth step, but that analogy, you can't appreciate all the goodness without a little bit of the darkness.

And I think it took a lot of darkness to get to that space of joyfulness. Yeah. So well said, so much great stuff there. So you go to this program and get sober after this program, you start going to the rooms. What else is going on for you at this time? How are you learning all this new stuff and staying sober and what does that look like for you? So the first year I did everything by the book, by my sponsor. I went a meeting every day. I got new friends. I went to coffee after the meeting. I stayed after the meeting because I started to see the benefits. People in the first 90 days are the bravest people in any room of any meeting or place because those first 90 days are hard. Then the first year and then the first 18 months, but like those first three months of literally changing your brain

chemistry, changing your body, of changing your behaviors, because I started to see some great payoffs. I started sleeping, like real sleep. I started enjoying reading. I started enjoying the things that I'd done before. But then there are the things like breakups and pain and things that come with that too. And it's like on the days when I was struggling, I remember, and this is why I loved going to meetings. I love meetings. I love meetings. because you hear things that sometimes you're like, okay, I've heard the 10,000 times, you know, whatever it is, or that's not important or whatever. But the thing is that every single person in a meeting is there because they want to be better that day and not drink. So it took me a little bit of time

to, like, not compare my insides to someone else's outside. It's like that person's having a really great day. And then they'd open up and share and I'm like, oh, they're struggling to just like me. So that took a little bit of time. But what I heard in a meeting that really helped me the days I was struggling. And it's like if I make it to midnight, that's one more day. So all I have to do is make it to midnight. I don't have to make it till tomorrow. I just have to make it to midnight. And some days that looked like, I need to make it five minutes. If in five minutes I want to drink, I'm going to go get a drink. And then five minutes later, if I still wanted it, I'm like, I'm just going to give myself 10. And it was like playing those little games of tricking yourself into like, okay, I can have it later,

but I can't have it right now. And it works, right? And I went to a bookstore and I bought every, back then there weren't books other than like drinking a love story by Carolyn Knapp, which was amazing. It's a biography and the big book and like what to expect the first year of not drinking or something. And I bought them all and I'm like, I'm going to figure this thing out. I'm going to figure out why this works. I'm going to figure out why I'm drinking and I'm going to figure out. And what I realized was the moment I just surrendered is when the magic started to happen because it's like, I have no idea why this work. I mean, I have an idea. But like at the beginning I was like, I don't know. So that first year I did everything that was suggested. I only hung out with people in the rooms. I had a buddy. Her name was

Claire. We did everything together. We went to Thanksgiving together. We went on vacation together. We went to yoga together. She was my buddy. She was two months behind me and we did everything. And that was so helpful. Because if I was in a bad mood, she'd be in a good mood. If she was in a bad mood, I'd be in it. Like, it worked. We went through it together. And so the first year, I just did it. And then I came up to that first year and I was like, uh-oh, it's real now. I've gone to a full year without the drink but the drinking dreams like the first year those drinking dreams are so powerful I'd wake up in tears because I felt like they were so real but I went to a meeting and I would share about it even though I felt like a failure for having a drinking dream I realized how much

shame I put on myself I felt so shameful about it and so meetings are really safe space for me so I would just go and I would share and I would dump and I would leave everything in the meeting and I would cry and I started healing you know that first year at 18. months, I started slipping away. I was like, I got this. I'm good. I'm good. And I started pulling away from meeting. I was not good. And so then I was like, oh, this is what they mean when, oh, I need the community. And so I started going back to meetings and things felt better. Imagine that. Like, so for me, that was a really important thing to recognize and realize. And those were really powerful. But five years, I was diagnosed with severe depression. But the only reason I got help is because I went into a meeting and I raised

my hand and I was like, I don't know what's happening. I'm struggling and all these things. And someone came to like, hey, why don't you go talk to this therapist? Just go see what he has to say. And I talked to him and he walked through it with me. And I managed that. But had I not been sober, I wouldn't have been able to have the strength to go through that. You know, at 10 years my son was born, I have a five, he's almost six. At 10 years, 10 days after he was born, I celebrated 10 years of sobriety. And that was such a gift. And I took him to my meeting at 10 days old. And I got my 10 year chip. And then at 15 years, this last year my dad died shortly after I celebrated last year was a really hard and my point in saying all of this is that getting sober is not a guarantee that life is perfect by any means it just means

that I navigate these things a little bit differently and so last year I finalized a incredibly painful divorce became a single mom I launched a business and my dad died so four of the top five things that are stressors in someone's life happens to me last year and you better believe I wanted to drink because my dad just didn't wake up and my dad was my best friend like my dad was person he saw me through my dad was always the support and i went and i bought a pack of cigarettes i smoked and i was drinking and i quit but i was like i need to do something bad bad right now and that's what i had and my mom god bless her says to me can you drink coffee instead because cigarettes aren't good for you and i was like i drink coffee to wake up and i went and i said right now i want to go to a bar do a lot of cocaine and

get really drunk and just miss dad's funeral. So I'm going to smoke this cigarette. And I'm good. She's like, okay, that sounds good. You're good. Let's just stick with that one. And I quit after, but that craving is still there. And so for me, I had put enough hay in the bar and I'd put enough practices where when I was uncomfortable or I was feeling pain, I'd pick up the phone, I'd call a friend, I'd go for a walk, I'd drink tea instead of why. Like, I had done enough things over the course of those 15 years. So when that trigger came or that I want it now came, I could step back and say, it's not going to bring my dad back. It's not going to fix my marriage. It's not going to prevent me from feeling this pain, but a drink will make everything go away.

Not the pain go away. I mean, it will for maybe a minute, but I'm going to lose everything else. But I had that loop of having enough practice for that not to be the first place I go. And I went to a meeting. I work with Ashley Addiction Treatment in Maryland. And I went and I shared my story with people who had less than 30 days. And I went and I was like, you know what I want to do right now? I want to go me to a stranger at a bar, get really wasted.

And they were like, thank you for share it. You know, because it's like people think it, I don't know, at 15 years, at 20 years, at five years. Like things are perfect and they're not perfect. But they feel a lot safer and manageable. And I have cognitive choices. I'm making decisions. Like, I'm not having decisions made for me based on what I did in a blackout. I'm making decisions for myself.

that seem right, and they might not be in the moment, but I can fix that later. Each year has provided challenges and gifts, but each one of those challenges has been my biggest teacher because it helps me become a better person. And that sounds so cliche. And a year I would have rolled my eyes that I said, you know, year's over. But life feels good, you know, having those moments of pause that I didn't have before. Yeah. No, I mean, so powerful what you said there, and it's so true for so many of us, I think, there's still work to be done throughout this journey because I feel like for me,

once I entered this sober journey, once I got started on this, then I just wanted more from life. Like I wanted to just get more out of it and do more and feel better and be of service and do all of that stuff. You kind of have to push yourself at times. What sobriety offers me is that ability to show up

to do cool stuff, to be available, to help other people and to have a little bit of fun while doing it all. But yeah, life does still happen in stuff, still goes on around us. And I think it's just incredible that you shared that. You went and shared the meeting because, yeah, sometimes the perception is like, oh, maybe you just get 30, 60, 90 days, six months and it'll be gone.

And you'll never think about it again. And it's still kind of there because the reason I think it is, and for me, it works so doggone well at one point. And I don't know if I'll ever forget about how well it worked to help me get outside of myself and to help me clear. I can relate to your story, too, about the voice. clearing the voices that you're not good enough and that the world doesn't think you're good enough. It worked so well at one point to do just that until it didn't just made everything worse, but I don't know if I can ever in my brain forget that it worked so well.

It wouldn't work today, but at one point, it's like that battle of it did. It helped me out. It really helped me out make new friends in high school and fit in with people and gave me a sense of community and gave me a purpose in life. And now I love that you brought up earlier about the community and purpose because I touched on this thing about like my weird solution to help people not go down this path. And it's not the dare program. It's to find a way to give people a purpose. Maybe things would have played out, but I feel like I could have gotten off the elevator

a lot sooner if I had something to lose or I had something I was working towards. And when I look back at my teenage years and my young, it was just jail, disappointment, unworthiness, depression, anxiety, drugs, and alcohol and letting people down and letting myself down. I never had that vision. I never expected to have a life at all. So yeah, I love that you brought that up. We always work towards it to be better, to do better.

Yes, and I love like this. And look, again, like I ought to roll my eyes, right? But like now I love the fact that I get to meet cool people on the journey with me, right? The more I share and the more I talk about it, the more people say, okay, I'm struggling. I don't know what to do. Or my mom's struggling. or this person or I meet someone in an event and they're like, I've been sober for six years.

This is amazing. And you're like, collect new people along the way to like walk on this journey with. And that's what makes it so beautiful and that's what makes it so fun. And that's what makes it feel so fulfilling because maybe one thing you said helped someone else. But then they kind of walk arm and arm with you and they become like your new sober family or your new soul family or your new person, you know, whatever that looks like. There is really beauty in the unknown. I thought that drinking was controlling my destiny, right?

Like, I'm choosing to drink and I'm choosing to do all these things. And it's like, once I let go of that lie, that misconception, that whatever, and just started to embrace, it's like, there's actually beauty and not knowing. And if I can just be in this moment, like right now I'm talking to you and tomorrow, who knows what tomorrow's going to look like, but that's kind of exciting. I found it's just a different way to approach living that feels freer, which sounds weird because I let go of the control, but it still feels freer for something. Yeah, no, it makes incredible sense. And I heard on Rich Rolls podcast. I don't know exactly what he said there. The theme was if your life's falling apart, like this is an incredible gift.

And I never looked at it like that, but it's that falling apart and you're heading into the unknown about you don't know what's next. I think it's incredibly beautiful because when I was out there, I knew what every day would be. Unless something outside big happened. And I became so comfortable in that. But then when I look back, it was so predictable. it was scary predictable and things never changed. You could have met me one year and then met me again the next year and you would have pretty much got pretty close to the same person.

Now in life, that is what scares me the most. It's like every time I meet new people, I want to be a different person, a person who's grown into a better person and being the same like just terrifies me personally. Isn't that funny? So being stagnant means we have control, right? Because it looks the same every day. Like what you're saying is like having that complacency. it's the same that we know what to expect.

But the evolution and the process of change, we have no idea what's coming. And that's terrifying, but also really glorious because you're right. Like we're constantly evolving and changing and being better today than we were yesterday. And there was a podcast that Rich did with his wife, Julie, that was really beautiful. And that may have been the one that you're referencing where she talks about like all humans, we want the answer. We want the pill. We want the solution.

We want that one food that's going to make us fit into a container where, where The beauty comes in the exploration and the change and the evolution. Like that's where the beauty comes in, but that's really scary. That goes back to putting down the drink. Like, that's really scary because that's all we know. That is our only tool in the toolbox. And starting to pick up other ones feels scary. But once you start accumulating them and using them, it feels really free.

Yeah, no, so true, so powerful. I've been thinking this whole episode since you shared it. Now, this is probably completely way off topic. But you went to Target and you would walk the aisles. Did you buy stuff at Target or were you just checking it out? If I'm being honest, sometimes I just accumulated junk. Sometimes I bought stuff. Sometimes I would walk.

And it's really funny. I think now that's kind of where I go if I just need to check out. It's really funny. I hadn't thought about that. But like, yeah, sometimes I did. Sometimes I bought just cheap t-shirts. Because I also lost a ton of weight when I got sober. Not intentionally, but because of all the sugar.

When I stopped drinking, I lost, I don't know, 15 pounds. And like, none of my clothes would fit. So I'd go to Target and buy clothes. But for the most part, it was just a ton of food. safe space or I knew, I mean, it could get drunk at Target, but most likely I would not get drunk at Target. That's good. I'm happy to hear that. And I think too, another part I got from that, too, is just the routines. So to change up the routines and we brought that up. But I think that's so important for people starting out. It's like really put yourself out there to change up what you do

because we hear it so many times like five o'clock hits. You start your dinner or whatever. And it just becomes that routine, that thing you're doing. And you have to really look at that and find other stuff that you can do besides early on. I find that it's so helpful for people and where some people get stuck is stuck in that same day after day after day type day. Right. That is our ritual. That is our routine, pouring that wine or going to the bar or seeking out, you know, whatever. And if we can replace that with something else, going to a yoga class at five o'clock every night or, you know, whatever, but it has to be intentional too because those habits don't change just by chance. That's a choice. And that's what I feel is to be really helpful.

So true. Okay, we'll finish off with this. This has been incredible. So thank you. If somebody's listening to the show and they're struggling to get or stay sober, what would you say to them from your own journey? So I would say the biggest thing is if you're struggling to get or stay sober, like ask for help because there's a lot of resources. When I got sober, it was pretty limited. And now I feel like there are beautiful things, you know, whether it's 12 step, whether it's recovery, whether it's a sober curious month. There's so many resources out there to just. see. And I find that most people that question their drinking probably have a issue with drinking. People that can go out and have one, and that's not a judgment or I'm not diagnosing anybody, but I find that I was always questioning my drinking because it was too much for me. But I think one is asking for help, just reach out, find someone you relate to, whether it's a podcast through here, whether it's someone on Instagram, whether it's a program, whether it's a 12-step meeting. I would say just reach out for help. And two, the biggest thing, you know, if you're in

recovery and you're struggling, it's like, just make it to midnight. Just make it one more day. It's anything, whether it's getting sober, right after my divorce, right after my dad died, doing everything for the first time after that in each of those containers was really terrifying and sad. But once I did them for the first time, I knew I could do them another time. Once I got through the first New Year's Eve, not drinking, I knew I could do the next New Year's Eve. And I think in that case, it's surrounding yourself with other people that support you and getting through those first moments until you can build the confidence that you know you can do it yourself. Yeah, wow, those are so powerful. Thank you so much for jumping on here today.

Thanks for having me. Wow, everyone. Look, the end of another episode. That was incredible. We covered so much ground in this episode. I am so grateful for Hillary to come on here and share her story. 15 years doing this thing. That is incredible. And now she's working with helping others to get on the journey or stay on the journey. So I hope you really enjoyed this episode. Look, do me a huge favor. If you love what you're hearing here on the podcast, share it with a couple of your friends. Share the podcast with them. And if you have yet to leave a review, please take two seconds out of your day and go do that. That would be incredible. Let me know your thoughts. If it's not a five

star, send me an email. It will make some changes for you so we can get your reviews up to five star. Look, this is Brad. He here. I'm so grateful for all of your support. If you've made it to the end of this episode, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for all your kind messages and emails and reviews and everything else.

This is truly an incredible community. I'm so grateful to hear that the stories that people are sharing are helping. Look, for these stories, I just try to create a safe place for people to come and share their story and then I get the heck out of the way and let them do exactly that. I hope you enjoy it,

and I'll see you on the next one.