Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - I Couldn’t Stop Drinking. Even After 13 Treatment Centers | Jason Wahler

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

If you've tried to quit drinking and keep relapsing, this episode is for you.Jason Wahler is known from Laguna Beach, The Hills, and Celebrity Rehab, but behind the cameras he was battling severe alcohol addiction for years. He went through 13 treatment centers, faced arrests, survived suicide attempt, and kept relapsing even when life looked successful from the outside. He also lived with OCD, which made the cycle of addiction even harder to break.In this raw and honest conversation, Jason shares what relapse actually feels like, and what finally helped him get sober and stay sober long term.This episode covers:How to quit drinking when you feel completely stuckWhy alcohol addiction is so hard to break, even with professional helpWhat relapse really looks like behind the scenesHow OCD and mental health affect addiction and recoveryWhat actually works for long-term sobriety after years of tryingWhether you're struggling with alcohol addiction, trying to get sober, or supporting someone who is, you'll find real answers here, not just the usual recovery talking points.You are not alone, and there is a way forward.Get More Support: HereCheck out the YouTube Channel: HereSupport the show: HereJason on Instagram: HereCheck out sobrsafe: HereSober Motivation Community: https://sobermotivation.mn.co/Sober Motivation Website: https://www.sobermotivation.comSupport the Podcast: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivationContact me anytime: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I don't blame the shows for my addiction. It was already underneath there. It's just, it definitely added fuel to the fire. And from 18 to 23 years old, you know, I ended up going to 12 or 13 different treatment centers from Florida to Hawaii, every state in between. I was arrested multiple times. And it even drove me to the point of, you know, not only contemplation, but attempting suicide. And it's crazy because the way addiction grabs a hold of you.

I mean, on the outside, it's like I had everything society says is amazing, whether that's, you know, notoriety, access, money, whatever. it is that, you know, that should drive happiness. Jason had everything on the outside, but inside he was struggling to survive. OCD addiction and a life that kept spiraling no matter how many times he tried to fix it. From reality TV fame to multiple rehabs, arrests, and relapse after relapse, nothing stuck until something finally shifted. Not because life got easier, but because he got honest. If you ever felt stuck or like you can't quit drinking, this episode is for you. And this is Jason's story on the Subur Motivation podcast.

Great to have you back for another episode. If you find yourself stuck in the drinking cycle, head over to Sobermotivation.com to explore the virtual Sober Motivation community where we have daily online meetings and also my one-on-one mentorship opportunities where I'll work alongside you to help you achieve your goals. And if you're enjoying the show and you would like to support it, head over to the website and click the Buy Me a Coffee button. And don't forget to subscribe.

Now let's get to Jason's story here on the podcast. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Jason with us. Jason, how are you? I'm doing fantastic, man. Thank you. How are you? Yeah, I'm well.

Glad we could connect. I've obviously seen what you've been up to over the year. So it's nice to have you jump on the podcast and share your story with everyone. Yeah, man. I'm grateful that you're having me and looking forward to just having some open dialogue around recovery and sobriety. Yeah, beautiful. So what was it like for you growing up? man that's a loaded question uh i think in general if i look at just my childhood and growing up i had a

very uh amazing family amazing mom and dad uh good morals good values i'm the youngest of four kids i have an older sister and two older brothers i mean we're just very family oriented we did a lot of family vacations a lot of family trips uh our family was very hyper focused on sports and and outdoors. I mean, I remember at a very young age, just, you know, riding motorcycles and wakeboarding, snowboarding, surfing, just really embracing, I guess, kind of the natural highs of life and cultivating and creating memories. And it was a really awesome childhood and very fortunate just to grow up in, you know, by the water and just to be able to have that type of life. And it wasn't until about 12 or 13 years old, though, when I started to experience, you know,

some underlying mental health issues. I struggled severely with OCD to the point where I'd wash my hands until they'd bleed and I'd have to wear neoprene gloves with neosporin in them to kind of just combat the chapness of my hands. I mean, I literally, if I turn my hands into a fist, they would all crack. Again, having a very supportive family, you know, mom and dad, so every psychiatrist and therapist under the sun, you know, I was put on medication to help mitigate the symptoms, but never dealt with the underlying

issues. And then fast forward a couple years, you find alcohol and who needs medication. And so that's kind of where the journey really started to shift and pull. And it's when I started to struggle, you know, in my teenage years and, you know, went into treatment. I think I don't know if I was 16 or 17 at my first, my first treatment stunt and ended up going to Utah for a wilderness program where I literally went out in the woods, had to whittle my own backpack and do a boat. drill, start my own fire, which is actually cool. It was like the first time I actually was able to grow my first beard. And then I came back and then I went to a boarding school. I don't know if it's still around or not. I was like, I think it was called Discovery Academy out in Utah. But I think that lasted for a total of a few months where then I was able to manipulate my way into getting back home and how I'll change. And from there, that's when the TV stuff all started to come up, be a part of it. I mean, baseball was a huge part of my life. I grew up and I was kind of one of of the things that I was aspiring to be able to do. But through the trials and tribulations that I was facing prior on like 15 or 16,

a lot of that stuff started to get deviated because I was struggling with alcoholism, dealing with underlying mental health issues. And it's really like an identity crisis, too. I mean, just trying to navigate, you know, what I was dealing with internally versus the way I was perceived externally. That's where a lot of the complications started to come into play. And I think also in like the, you know, the 90s, you know, I mean, obviously there was therapist and there were psychologists and stuff like that, but I don't think the awareness or the

knowledge around it that we have today was, was nearly what it was back then. And so even though there were issues and things that were going on, I didn't know how to effectively communicate what I was experiencing. I don't even feel like the, you know, I mean, just looking back at some of those sessions and stuff, it's like, obviously you could just look at my hands and see something that was going on. But there was, again, it was, there was just no tools compared to what we have today to really navigate that. And again, everybody did the best that they could. But I'm grateful to see the the progress that we've made, you know, in today's age. Yeah.

Well, beautiful. Thank you for the incredible intro there. So much to unpack. I relate to so much. I mean, we chatted before we went on air here to the wilderness sort of aspect of rehab. And I mean, I think Utah was a really big sort of center for, you know, these rehabs and these wilderness ones for sending your kids to. Even to that other part of not knowing how to communicate. I remember, too, I had interventions ever since I could.

remember therapist, doctors, everything, ADHD, all of this stuff. And that's what I dial it back to is that I was getting offered all to help, but I could not at the time connect the dots to what was actually going on to tell anybody or express it to anybody to maybe get maybe more help. Yeah. Hindsight's always 2020, right? Yeah. No, it is.

And I think it's, I mean, it's, it was a very interesting time because it was just like, how do you communicate this? And it was especially hard because I received so much validation through what I did externally, whether it was through sports or through my friendships and different things. And it was like nobody knew what was really going on behind closed doors. And it was such a shame-based thing. And obviously, again, as parents being supportive around that and trying to help however they could, but it was just, it was beyond that and going to see therapists and stuff like that.

I just don't even think our parents were equipped back then on how to navigate this, right? I mean, especially the baby boomers and the population that they just, they just have such a different mentality on how you approach stuff. And that's why, like, I've really cultivated. People ask me often, you know, like, what would you, you know, what would you have wished or what would you have changed, you know, for things to, you know, potentially been better back in the day? And, and again, like, my parents are incredible, amazing people,

but I think one of the biggest things was also being able to have, like, that support system. I hope this isn't sound like contradicting what I'm explaining, but my mom was very easy to approach and stuff like that. My dad was there for me always and wanted to support, but it was also sometimes felt like it was like more punitive sometimes. Like if I'd approach them and talk to him, I just, you know, it was just kind of like, you know, grab them, you grab the bull by the horns and just navigate it and different things like that where it wasn't like you would just shun it away, but it's creating a more safe environment to be able to just have that dialogue and and just be able to approach my parents in that way.

And again, it's hard because they were approachable, but again, is I think there could have been a much more in-depth engagement with that. Does that make sense? And so what we've ended up doing and cultivating is like with my kids alone, and by looking at that is we've actually set up four different questions that we ask every single night. And I started this about almost four years ago with my daughter and now my son's starting to participate in. My daughter's eight years old. My son is four. And those four questions

are simply, you know, what was good today? What could we improve upon? What are we grateful for? And what's our goal for tomorrow? And not only do they answer, but I answer. And I obviously answer in an age-appropriate way, but it starts to develop and cultivate that sense of connectivity and that relatability. And after doing this now for four years, you know, I can see my daughter already starting to open up at eight years old, saying we're having conversations for 20, 30 minutes around, you know, friendships and what it's like to go through hard times and different pieces. And I'm seeing because the ultimate goal of that is to be able to create that sense of safety that they can come to you with anything. And my hope is, I mean, since the average age of first time

use in America is 11 and a half years old, you know what I mean? And if that's the average age, obviously kids are using at a lot younger age. And my kids are definitely pregenetically disposed to addiction, just giving, you know, being Cherokee German and Irish. I mean, they got a pretty high probability of having the genetic. makeup of that. And so I'm just wanting them to whether they're introduced to it or anything that comes up, being able to have the conversation that they know they can come to me. Because, again, is the therapy part, parents were a little bit more approachable to,

but I think definitely from a substance abuse standpoint and things like that, it was definitely harder to approach them with those conversations because it was just a very black and white, like, you know, do not do it. And so, I don't know, hopefully that's something that can be taken away, but I just know that my kids are very receptive and, and it's been a really good practice that we've been doing. And it's, it's cool to see the growth that's happened. Yeah, man, I love that. I love that, too.

It's almost like the growing up with the DARE program, you know, just say no to drugs. But the reality is, I mean, it's going to be people's story. And then what do you do? So if you have said yes or experimented, which so many people do, like, what's the next step? And I think what you're doing there fostering that open communication, because if I would have went to my parents, and said, you know, this is what I'm up to. This is what I'm doing, right? It would have been met with, like, probably rehab sooner or whatever it was,

as opposed to now maybe having those conversations and working through it, maybe asking what it's doing for them or, you know, whatever other consequences. It's having the dialogue, man. It's created a sense of awareness, you know, and through that awareness, it creates acceptance. And through acceptance, it creates a plan of action, right? And so, again, if you're not conversating,

you're not going to know what's going on. And so I think we as I'll speak from a parent's perspective, I think we can do a lot better job on, on, you know, preventative stuff because what's predictable is preventable. And so, again, it's starting this communication and having those conversations at a young age. Like we've already, it was finding my daughter who was very intuitive and very intellectual. I mean, she caught on.

She's like, dad, why do you have two birthdays? And so it was interesting to be able to have that conversation with her, though, because it was, again, age appropriate, able to explain to her, you know, the allergy that I have to alcohol. and how it affects our family. And it was good. I mean, to the point where she ended up, was just like, you know,

she interpreted what was going on because she noticed I've never, you know, I never drank. And she wrote me a card and it was just like, I'm so proud of you. That's so incredible. And so it's awesome. Beyond that is like,

we're literally, you know, breaking chains right now because, I mean, this is, I don't know how many generations, but I mean, it's been several generations. I am the first that's raising their family without substances and bold.

And so it's pretty, incredible to see that that that come into play and uh because again is whether you know it or not you're introducing you know substances and stuff to your kids just when you're consuming visually i think people don't often realize that you know i mean whether you're drinking wine or having beer and things like that obviously your kids are doing everything that's going on and so it's important that conversation with them yeah and they they pick up on stuff um you know that we're doing i mean a lot of people sharing their stories too right they might be the guy who when they're five or six or seven go fetch his beer for everybody or has a little drink as sort of this they want to try it

type thing like all probably fairly innocent not noticing the whole big picture at the time when parents are doing that but i think that that is probably even more previous generations going back to you know you first starting drinking what was that experience like i mean people kind of share two different stories right people it hits right away other people it's more of a you know incline over time What was it for you? Dude, it's funny bringing that up because you think I'd just have this, you know, oftentimes I feel like we hear this like, oh my God, aha moment where it's like alcohol did this for me. That wasn't, I was actually like fearful of alcohol as I was like navigating the mental health issues.

I'll never forget us at my best friend's house. And I think we, I think they, we had his brother get us a, you know, a 12 pack of like smearing off ice or something. And, and, but it was at that point where like, yeah, I was super into it. But when it came to the moment of actually participating and partaking, I didn't want to, I didn't want to, like, I knew that it would, like, make your body, you'd lose somewhat control potentially by, like, drinking. And so I was sitting there, like, as they're drinking it and stuff, I'm, like, pouring the drink over my shoulder. Like, yeah, man, this is great.

And this totally, you know, totally falsifying what was really happening. And I think I probably had equivalent to probably like half of a drink while they ended up getting, they ended up getting pretty hammered. I think we were, like, 13 years old. But it wasn't this, like, crazy experience. But from there, I don't remember this, you know, I don't remember that, like, like first time I got drunk, but I remember that like first interaction with that I remember like the experience of his brother bringing it in and me not like being super motivated to do it.

But then it was, you know, there's this like blurred component of from there to, you know, it became a very big part of my life, you know. And I mean, it was something that I consumed regularly. And, and, you know, it wasn't, wasn't, you know, wasn't thereafter that obviously became a huge problem. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's sort of one of the, the other sides of it too. Some people they do share about this aha moment, the dots connected, everything.

You know, maybe the feeling so uncomfortable in life or a sense of belonging, it checks those boxes. And then others, it seems to be this gradual thing that just maybe gets normalized and more normalized with time. When you go to the wilderness camps here, too, are your parents kind of signing you up for this? Or are you like, yeah, I want to go to the wilderness camp? I knew I was like, and again, it goes back to like the good dynamic that we had. I knew I was experiencing some pressure. and it was more of like a mutually agreed upon type of thing that we'd participate in, right? It wasn't, I wasn't one of those people that was kidnapped in the middle of the night and, you know,

and take into a program. It was, you know, very communicative with our family because they knew I was struggling and stuff like that. But definitely an interesting experience, though, you know, to say the least. Yeah. Did it help you out with things or what you were struggling with? No, I mean, honestly, I think it was a good experience. I mean, I really did enjoy the wilderness program. component and I think it was just awesome to be able to be connected with nature and just to learn

other skills and stuff that I, you know, I wouldn't have learned anywhere else, basically. But I just was not in a place of surrender acceptance. I mean, at 17, 18 years old, I mean, you're so impressionable. You're still developing, you know, and I just, I couldn't be in a place of, of a willingness that I really saw that there was a problem. And, I mean, that happened for, for years that kept going down. I mean, it was, I mean, addiction is a disease of denial too, right? And so I think, I mean, I also had to learn the hard way.

I wish there was this, that like moment of clarity in the beginning where I was like, okay, obviously I see that there's an issue here and, you know, that there's a way out. But ultimately, it took me falling many, many times to really realize and have it, you know, full like, guy did like, this isn't working anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Where did things go for you after high school? Like, is this when you started doing shows and all of that?

So high school is basically we started doing the first show, Logan to Beach. So it came back from wilderness camp, came back from, you know, the boarding school that was there, found out there was a show being taped, you know, still in communication with some of my friends. Come to find out they shot the first season of it. And time I get back and things start going, you know, the show is doing well that they wanted to do a second season. So I come, you know, fresh back out of that situation and get introduced to the show dynamic. and given my history and everything that I'm going through, they're like, this would be a perfect candidate for television.

And so kind of the rest is history at that. But after high school, we did the Lugina for a couple years, and then it transitioned into the hills, which was another series that we did up in Los Angeles. And, you know, that's when things obviously started to escalate. It's just adding fuel to the fire. You know, I don't blame the shows for my addiction. Like I said, it's, you know, it was already underneath there.

It's just, it definitely added fuel to the fire. And, you know, and from that point, I mean, from 18 to 23 years old, you know, I ended up going to 12 or 13 different treatment centers from Florida to Hawaii, every state in between. I was arrested multiple times. And, you know, I even drove me to the point of, you know, not only contemplation, but attempting suicide. And, you know, I mean, it's crazy because the way addiction grabs a hold of you. I mean, on the outside, it's like I had everything society says is amazing, whether that's, you know, notoriety, access, money, whatever it is that, you know, that should drive happiness.

And, dude, I was the most empty, you know, a person just full of guilt, insecurity, shame that you could ever imagine. And it was just a very miserable existence. But I think kind of like to tie it up. And it wasn't there shortly after that I ended up on celebrity rehab. So it's like Laguna, the hills, the buzz in between celebrity rehab. So it was a nice story arc of how all that happens while also going to a ton of different treatment centers and getting in trouble with the law and between all.

that. The thing that was hard about it, man, is, is all of that stuff was, it was all public. You know what I mean? And so it was like, if you, it's one thing to go through your own trials and tribulations, you know, behind closed doors or, you know, just with, you know, your family or friends knowing. But to have this, you know, I think at the time, Laguna was like one of the number one shows on cable, you know, I mean, just so to have that much exposure. And then back then there wasn't, you know, thank God there wasn't social media, but also if there was social media, there's so much information that things get diluted through things. And But it was like you either watch TMZ or you got the, you know, the weekly tabloids. And it was like, you know, leaving the grocery store and she, you know, arrested again. I mean, it was just all over and just couldn't escape, you know, everything that I was already experiencing, which was, you know, a pretty horrible existence, you know. And I use the acronym around shame. It's like self-hatred against my existence, right? And so, I mean, it's like you're trying to navigate this process and go through everything that

you're experiencing, but it's constantly being thrown in your face or being reminded. minded. And so it just, I mean, it eats at you, right? And so again, thank God for the support that I had through, you know, some friends and family and, and the good Lord above for sure just, you know, keep me a part of this and keep me alive through all of this stuff. Because there's definitely, definitely, definitely, I mean, definitely shouldn't be here, man. I think a lot of us that are in recovery to relate to that. But there's just so many instances where it's like, I mean, definitely, I had, I had nine lives. I mean, it's like the whole cat analogy. I mean, just, you know, I should definitely. Yeah, I can relate to you on that 100%. Going to all these rehabs and stuff, I mean, what's kind of sparking this for you to end up in rehab? And like, what are your thoughts there too? Why things aren't working out? I mean, I don't know if that's exactly the right word. I mean, I'm a big believer of sort of a bunch of steps in the right direction.

Like maybe it's not just one moment, but maybe we pick up things throughout the years. But what's your reflection there? Well, I mean, I think going through the process, again, this as I'm navigating this, I was either going to treatment for girlfriends, for my parents, for courts. Like, I mean, it was never a true acceptance and a complete surrender and awareness to get completely open and honest. I mean, I think those are some of the most integral steps is what you have to do within

yourself. And they were all, they were never for me in those beginning stages, which is interesting because if you actually look at the moment of clarity that I had, which I all get into is, is it's very interesting kind of looking at this. And because it's actually to tie that together is like the moment of clarity. And I just jump into that because like what was that turning point that really happened for me was I was in a therapy office, you know, yet again with my mom and dad. You know, this is after so much stuff has happened. And I've never seen my dad really break down besides the time when his mother had passed away.

And he's like the patriarchal family and stuff. And he's looking at me. And, you know, he looks at. cross and he's just got a tear coming down his face and he's just like jason we just don't know what to do anymore um you know mom and i are obviously our marriage is suffering uh you know the families that just a complete disarray and and we're literally laying in bed like two plagues of wood waiting for the phone call that you're dead and i think through that and like just going back to that part that i was explaining is like you know i didn't have that motivation i didn't have that

motivation and stuff like that which i don't i never did which is which is interesting because even at this moment of clarity point, I'd gotten so low through this whole process that thank God for the relationship that I had with my mom and dad, for whatever reason there was like a light that came on when he was communicating that to me

that I was like, I don't care enough about myself, but you guys will become my motivation. Right. And so through that process, I ended up going to treatment again. And after, you know, that was July 23rd, 2010, after going through that process

and committing to this, obviously I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel after I started to acquire some sobriety time. And then it did transition into motivation. I'm like I could I can see myself being sober. I actually am liking who I am. I'm starting to have purpose and starting to have passion. But I'm different in that space where it's like I had to have it. You know, it wasn't, again, it's important because I did not have complete motivation or willingness in the beginning.

And I didn't throughout the whole process appeasing people and doing it for the wrong reasons. And that's just where addiction took me to the point of having to finally have. the motivation because even though, and I hope that's not sounding contradicting because it's like the motivation to go get help again was through my parents. But in those earlier stages, it was still for that, but it just didn't stick for whatever reason it was. But I also think like through that, you know, that's, you go through all the treatments. You go through, you know, there was years of my life that was dedicated to therapy, to psychiatry, dealing with jails, dealing with the law, you know, all those things. I think you just get to a place to where you're

worn out and you're just kind of like, part of his, needed that motivation from them and that support. And I think there was like a spiritual awakening that really happened there too, though. I really think that was something like a sign from God because like this something changed. And like I said, I saw that light that became the motivation for me to do that. And so my story is not that one where I had to hit this crazy bottom because I hit so many bottoms. I just kept bouncing off the bottom and how could I get out of it? But that was the craziest part.

And I'm so grateful for that. But now with being around this and doing this for so many years, it is imperative. I think now, like when I work with people and the people that I sponsor through, you know, the recovery program and stuff like that is, is, you know, the willingness to be completely open and honest

to be able to take direction and suggestion and are they coachable? Like, really understanding that and that's just, I was never in that place. You know what I mean? And it took me through me being sponsored and going through the staff and doing working programs and stuff like that of multiple different kinds.

Like that's truly where the core correction. at the beginning really started. And so I could see it's weird. I got to a fork in a road that ended up coming back together, right? Where there was motivation and support from the family dynamic through also going through the process and really, you know, committing myself to then being able to do it for, to doing it for myself for long-term sustainable sobriety, if that makes sense. Yeah.

No, of course it does. I mean, I think there are a lot of people that share something like that. Maybe parents a lot, too. like I don't really love myself enough to maybe do it for myself at this point, but maybe I've got kids and that could be maybe my motivation to get started. I mean, is it going to last forever and that be the forever thing? Like that might be, that might be tough, but for some it might be the thing, right? Getting started somewhere and for something.

And that's the thing too, man. I don't know where you stand on this, but there's the very black and white thinking, you know, which about hitting bottoms and different things like that, which I used to be very in agreement with a lot of those things. but of times have changed, people's bottoming. Oftentimes, a lot of people that I know, it's cost their life. And I think our role and our responsibility is to help them stop digging, right?

And so it's to be able to try to help elevate the bottom so they don't get to that place. And I think if there are things that you can grab onto and there's things of motivation and our hope that can be an aspiration for you to try to enter into a new way of living, then, you know, kudos to you. I don't think it's always this, this, it's just not as black and white to me anymore as it used to be. And so, you know, and again, is when I share that, hopefully that is, you know, could be something that could be relatable for somebody if you're out there and they're struggling because my story wasn't the one where I was beaten into my head that I have to be in a place to, you know, to want to do it for myself because unfortunately, I wasn't, man. That's just the truth. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I'm with you on that 100% too, because this is what I've seen. I mean, I've worked with people in treatment centers and outpatient clinics and done over 260 stores here. And like literally, I'm trying to think really quick, but maybe five people got sober after sort of a quote unquote bottom. The rest had an experience that's more relatable to what you're sharing in one way or another. I think people that don't experience the bottom, they don't experience. I use like the air quotes because that's subjective. Everybody is so much different. But they're thinking maybe it would be easier if I did hit a bottom because then it would be ultimate red flags and it would make

so much sense and I'm like, I don't know if that's always the case because the bottom could be very hard place to dig out of. That could have serious consequences. And then the people who don't maybe hit the bottom think, okay, well, maybe I don't have much of a problem here. Maybe there's not much about that. I think people who fall into each camp think that the other one is harder to get out of. And I'm like, no, they're equally, it's equally different. You have to have those elements that you mentioned, the willingness, the honesty, the acceptance, and are you going to listen to a different way or maybe other people? Yeah.

How are you going to do that? The best of our decision making kept getting us back to those same places, right? And so, well, today I don't do this on my own. You know, I have a support group. I have a fellowship. I have foundation. I'm of service. I mean,

the things I do to, you know, to maintain and sustain sobriety are not overly that. They're not overly complex. You know what I mean? And it's actually a lot of the things I do, a 10-year-old could comprehend. And it's about forth and putting those into action. But again, this is the only disease that tells you you don't have a disease. So, I mean, when you're navigating and going through this, you would think when I was arrested four times in six months in four different states that I would be able to go, hey, man, I think I got a problem.

You know, like, but for me, I'm like, dude, everybody that's 21, 22 goes through this. Like, that's, that's just the way that we think, dude. It's, it's, it's, you're, you're trying to have rational conversation with people that are completely irrational. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense. And that's why it's imperative that you have to actively arrest the disease. you have to get somebody into a stable point so you can then be able to try to teach and coach and be at that place for somebody. So that's what I tell people, it's not hard to get sober.

It's hard to stay sober, right? I mean, it's one thing to be going to treatment, be in an environment that's highly structured with no stress, but it's, and that's why the recidivism. So how you leave treatment, it's the complete opposite. It's high, stress, low structure. And there's not a program that's put into place. And so, again, I just get passionate about those types of things, man. And I just, I think we can help.

simplify the process for people. I mean, it is. Look, addiction is very multifaceted. It's cunning. It's baffling and it's powerful, dude. And it's, it's, it can be very frustrating, especially for those that are dealing with it and also for the ones that are surrounded by it. But there is a solution. There is a way out. There is hope. You know, and I think that's us being here, just being trying to be a beacon of hope for those that are lost, you know, because look, we've, we've, we've experienced a lot of different things. And it's, again, whether you experience what we have, more or less, it doesn't make a difference. It's, I think, really asking yourself and evaluating whatever it is you're struggling with. I don't care if it's drugs, alcohol, sex, you know, work, exercise. It could be things

that we perceive as good is, hey, is this adding or subtracting to my life? I think that's one of the big questions that we, it's not even, hey, are you an alcoholic or hey, you're in an addict? It's like being able to be honest with yourself. Like, I just, hey, is this really adding or subtracting to your life? And that's, whenever I encounter people that have questions or that want to talk about, they're a struggle that they may be experiencing, that's literally I keep it as simple as that and allow them to answer their own question. And so hopefully that could be a motivating indicator for people if they're going through things or they're wondering if they struggle with addiction or they struggle with, you know,

drinking or they struggle with whatever it may be. They can do a self-examination and evaluation on themselves to really identify if it's something they want to be a part of their life anymore or it's something that they really want to make a change to. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way to keep it simple. This is my interesting take on it. And I don't know your thoughts on it.

But I feel like when we're stuck in, it feels. so difficult and so heavy to get out of, we think it has to be this overly complicated thing because everything we've tried before never worked. So it's like, I think the brain, the human brain is like, I have to complicate this because it's never worked before. But the truth is, the truth is it's very simple and maybe too simple to feel like it could actually work. Anything there? Yeah, dude, I completely understand. And I think the other part too is I think a lot of, if not, most, most, if not all addicts and alcoholics specifically are very smart, very intellectual people. And I think that we definitely can overcomplicate things. I mean, and I did forever,

man. I mean, it's literally, if you look at the simple suggestions that are there and I look at when that was recommended to me when I was going through those stages of all the different treatments and stuff. I guess I would try to part. I'd wouldn't put on the boat, one put on the dock, right? But it was like, I never fully committed to those simple practices. And I really look back, you know at all those times it was like I'm going to keep doing it my way and I'm on over and it yes it whether it be too simple there's no way this is going to work um but it was also just ego getting in the way of that I you know I'll be able to handle this myself and and I would definitely overcomplicate it multiple times but yes I completely agree with what you're saying

and it's funny especially working with like a newcomer and seeing when a place is when a person's again, they may have similar histories and past in regards to, you know, the bottoms or the craziness of what they experience. But when you have somebody that's motivated and willing and open and honest versus, you know, somebody that is half of that, you can just see the trajectory of what goes on and the progress that comes to fruition versus the person that is in resistance. And it's just, again, is, yes, I agree with you, but I think we can definitely overcomplicate. And it's, we can definitely simplify this.

And I think people need to realize, too, is, you know, it doesn't just change overnight. You know, people think, oh, they go away to treatment for 30 days, 60 days. Oh, their life's going to be completely different. They come out. It's like, no, it took 15 or 20 years to get there. Right. Like, I mean, it's like the good news is it's not going to take 15 or 20 years for their life to turn back around. But it's going to take six months to a year for them to be in a place where you're starting to see a shift really come to fruition if they're doing the work.

Right. And it's, it's important. They got to do the work. You can't just go to treatment to come out. not do that. It's like going to the gym and sitting in the lobby and thinking that you're going to get buff. Like you've got to put forth the effort. If you go to the gym once a week, you're going to get the results of going once a week. You go to the gym five times a week. You're going to get the results of going five times a week. And so program's got to be a very high priority for you to be able to get the benefits out of it.

And that's for me. I mean, I have non-negotiables that I participate in every single day that is the top three things in my priority list, which is my relationship with God, my sobriety and then my family. and then there's other things that fall underneath that, but I don't steer from those. And when I'm in that and I'm actually participating in my recovery program, you know, I'm thriving. And when I don't, I become irritable, restless, and discontent. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Overcomplicating things, ego getting in the way. And just keeping it simple and showing up, doing what you need to do, meetings. It's interesting the other day. I mean, probably way off topic. But I saw stat that there's more treatment centers in the U.S. than there is McDonald's, 35,000 plus treatment centers. And I was like, what, more than McDonald's.

But I think that is it. A lot of people, too, you know, think it's going to be sort of a one and done or go to treatment. Everybody, yeah, I mean, there is the time and place for, like it's extremely beneficial for those that can make it happen for themselves. But I feel like, I don't know if it's just me,

but I feel like a lot of people, they think that is going to be, it. Like my loved one won't go to treatment so they're doomed. And I'm like, whoa, well, hold on a second. I mean, I don't know if that's completely true, but it's a really interesting thing of like this adoption over time maybe of that is a must have. What do you think? I mean, you're on the ground there. So look, I want to be very clear as I think treatment does work in recovery as possible. I want to be very clear about that. But I also think that is not the, that's not the only answer. It is much more than just going to a 30, 60, 90 day treatment program.

I think that is good to be able to get your bearings. If you look at it like a child with a bicycle, that's the training wheels for them, right? When they come out, it's one of the most important parts. And what does that look like when they're reacclamating back into life being their natural stressors? And how are they bringing it back into a controlled environment to be able to process what it is that they're going through? I mean, through therapy, through meetings, through, you know, I mean, it's, and I can even share it. I mean, even with all these years of sobriety, now, I mean, I have a very rigorous routine that I do. And again, is, yes, I think treatment for getting me into a place that actually the rest of the disease, I got stabilized.

I was able to get the tools and the resource. I learned a lot in treatment that I'm able to incorporate into my day-to-day life. But it's making sure that I do that because, again, as I think a lot of people think they just go to treatment, they're going to come out and they're going to be fixed. It's like the real work doesn't start until you get out. And still to this day, man, Monday through Friday, it's like every single morning, I wake up. I do my gratitude list of, you know, three things that I'm grateful for, not only what, but why I set it to about 13 or 14 other guys. From there, I get to the gym. You know, I'm very

religious about my, my working out. And when I get back from the gym, I do my daily devotional and I read it in the Bible for me. I mean, I'm a big believer and something that's been very beneficial for me. So I'm in the book of Matthew right now and just in cruising through that. And then I prayed before I go about my day and then go on with my day. And then go on with my day. I actually have in my calendar multiple different times that I will pause and pray. There's two different times where I block out 15 minutes just to pause as matter what's going on just because of how life can get. And then at the end of the day, as I do those questions with my kids,

look, am I 100% perfect with them? No, but I'm probably 90 to 95%. In the days that I don't do them, I can definitely feel the effects of it because I've been growing those, but that's stuff that, like, it's a new way of living for me. It enhances my quality of life. And so, again, is, and also the other thing I forgot to mention in there is I still go to a therapist once a week. You know what I mean? And so I have several, several hours a week that I'm dedicating to my program and helping others.

And that also, I mean, that's not even talking about service and giving back for other people in all different ways, not even just in the program, just in general. And so it's really, I've changed and transferred all that selfishness that I used to have that was directly associated about me, me, me, me, me, to how can I be a servant and to help others and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and my family, my wife, you know, my, my, uh, my, uh, my, uh, a stranger. And it's just really cool because I look back, man and like when I was going in the depths of all this stuff, man, I, I couldn't even, I wouldn't even know how to pray for the life I have today. Um, and it's, it's, it's pretty incredible all the things that can come to fruition by by taking suggestion. And obviously I communicate with.

with my sponsor on a daily basis. And I mean, there's a lot of the stuff that is ingrained in us. But like I said, like, I had to figure out what work for me and what were those things that were beneficial that were incorporated in my life. And those are things that have been super super. And what works for me may not work for you, Brad. I mean, it may be different. Your thing may be different.

But after doing this for as long as I have, that's what really has worked for me. And there's been different seasons, too, man. I mean, there was times when I was 12-step meeting five days a week and, you know, really active in that. But, like, I paired that out for me. personally more from a faith-based perspective. And then I do have meetings twice a week. And some people may have opinions on that or not.

But like my life is pretty balanced and even keeled in regards to how I participate in. Yeah. And I think that, well, I mean, all of that is really important. But I love the aspect to where, you know, what works for you? I think that that's incredible. And I think the whole space of sobriety, recovery, alcohol-free, whatever it is, whatever people want to call it, has come so far from when I first started getting. into this you had a you had about two options yeah um and you kind of played by those rules or

there were no other options and so i just love how that now it's a lot of the conversations are what's working for people and whatever is working for people like double down and plug in um and just make that happen which i think is beautiful aspect of things right it's not that you have to go this way you have to go this way you have to do this i mean living on social media too i mean you'll you'll hear all of the feedback from what you know what you're you you're should be doing, but if you have some that works, like, that's the most important thing. Well, Brad, I think it's important to also identify. Times are different than they were 20, 40 years ago.

Okay. I mean, things have evolved so much. And for me, like personally, 12-step programs were made. Like, that was one of the foundational pieces to my sobriety. But also, it wasn't enough. I needed therapy. I needed other things that were added on that were, that I needed to be able to address issues that were not getting addressed in a group setting or in a room.

Like, I think it's important to also just bring awareness and light to different aspects to this. Because, again, there's so much respect for those types of things. And it's such a foundational piece. But I also think we can't be naive to that times have also changed. And there's also a lot more that we're exposed to, a lot more that is there. And we also have research around things that can also be beneficial and helpful. And so, again, I have probably, what, four or five different tools that I utilize and incorporate. within my life, you know, or groups or whatever you want, however you want to segment it.

You know, it's not just one thing anymore. And because trust me, I was young. I got sober early enough to understand exactly what you're talking about. And dude, if that works for somebody, that's fantastic. Again, it's to each their own. But I also am in supportive people that like they're also experiencing other, whether they have PTSD, you know, they're dealing with trauma or they're dealing with other issues. I think those, you know, you're going to need to get the appropriate help to address those.

you're not necessarily going to get them in a group setting. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And there's so many different like new therapies, too, that are out there that I mean, at least when I was going to therapy, I was, my mom was just like, you're going to therapy and it was just a therapist. Yeah, now. CBT, PBT, EMD, you're like, bro, all the acronyms, man.

What about top four? Yeah, they were just like, yeah, what's going on? Yeah. Heading back there to like, you know, 2010. I mean, what, what has, have things been like for you? I mean, any struggles that you came across, too, like as you worked this out, you know, maybe to highlight for other people that might be starting things out. Yeah, man.

Well, look, I mean, I wish I could say I was, I stayed sober all the way since back in 2010. After, you know, about five years of sobriety, ended up having a really gnarly relapse. And what landed to that is, as you heard me say earlier, what's predictable is preventable because I look back and I don't think relapse is a part of recovery. I actually think it's a lack thereof because everything that I was doing to get to that four and a half, five years of sobriety I stopped doing, right? And so, um, ended up falling back into that, ended up, you know, relapsing on and off for, for a few years, uh, which was absolutely miserable, dude. If I were to summarize addiction for people and kind of the state of

mind that it put me in, in these stages is like at first drinking and using was fun. It became a lifestyle and it became a way of survival. So when I relapse, there was no fun left, man. There's complete isolation by myself. Relapse on Adderall ended up in getting into alcohol about a year and a half later just to be able to help with the psychosis and being able to sleep. And from that standpoint, I mean, that landed me at the first floor at Hogue Hospital in Newport Beach, where my wife was giving birth to our daughter on the fourth floor. And so, I mean, I went through some gnarly trials and tribulations. And then ended up going back on television, the hills came back.

And I wasn't going to do it, but I was advised by actually my buddy who's a mechanic for our Harleys. And he's like, I didn't want to do it just because of where I was at in life. he's like, hey, this is a great opportunity to share a testimony and to be a beacon of hope for those of the loss. So my wife and I went back on, we actually opened up about a lot of that stuff and shared everything that was going on. And that was a really cool journey and a message from that. But since 2010, I mean, I dedicated my life to sobriety. Even through the trials and tribulations, I don't mitigate those experiences that I went through because there are a lot of great learning opportunities.

And I think your greatest deficits can become your greatest assets. And so I learned a lot through that, worked in the substance abuse space for a long time. I mean, I used to write for the Huffington Post. I joined several boards. I mean, I really kind of immersed myself into this program and removed myself from the entertainment side and that first portion of it. Gained a vast knowledge and got to a point where obviously was able to get married and have a wife who I love very, very much. We have a very amazing relationship. We have three beautiful children.

We moved across the country, man. I mean, I wasn't in a place where when I was an active addition, I could move across the street, let alone, you know, halfway across the country. And so moved to Tennessee and I've been here for about four years now and just have a very beautiful life, dude. And, you know, I mean, I have an incredible career and just wake up every day with, you know, motivation and passion and purpose. And, you know, it's awesome. I run Dr. Amund's foundation, the Change Your Brain Foundation, which we're really trying to change the way that we look at mental health. I mean, the mission for that is to end the concept of mental health by creating a revolution in brain health and how we do that is through our three pillars, which is scholarships slash grants. For people that need help, but don't have the means to get that the help that they need.

And then we do research, and then we also do education, which has been incredible. We want to have the brain evaluated and looked at just as regularly as any other organ in the body. For those of the people out there who don't know, I mean, psychiatry is one of the only medical professions that doesn't look at the organ that they treat. There's something wrong with your heart, your pancreas, your kidneys, your liver. we're going to do scans, MRIs, pet scans, you know, even ultrasounds. But we've been clustering symptoms and throwing medication at the brain for the last 150 years. The same thing they did with Abraham Lincoln. And I think that, again, biopsychoscials and assessments are very important.

But if we can actually look at the organ that's directly impacted, there's a lot that we can do with that. And then the other piece, just from a recovery standpoint, is working with Sobertsure, which is one of the first ever transdermal alcohol monitoring detection bans, which is incredible for people that are, you know, that are coming to. out of treatment. So it's a great way to reestablish trust and have a higher level of accountability. And one of the things that I love about the ban, though, is from a preventative standpoint, as we talked about earlier, is the average age of first time use in the United States being 11 and a half years old, which again is astonishing. But if somebody does not drink or used by

the age of 21, no matter what their pregenetic disposition is, they have a 90% chance of never struggling with addiction. So I think us that are in recovery and us that have families and kids that may be susceptible to it. We can do a much better job on a preventative standpoint. So I'm definitely going to be incorporating the ban. You know, to my kids at a younger age, especially when they're, you know, 11, 12. I mean, so many people nowadays have App 360 and they have, you know, Apple tags and stuff like that.

Why not add an extra security measure? And, you know, if we can mitigate something by 90 percent, I mean, that's huge. That's incredible. And so I think I would hope everybody could see the benefit of that. And first-time drivers, you know, especially prevent DUIs. I mean, there's so many different applicable ways that it can. come into into play. So it's been awesome working with them and seeing another tool, right, be accessible to those. It's not the answer for everything. But it's discreet. You know,

it's a lot more humane than a breathalyzer, especially as somebody that had to use those many times for people. I mean, I'm wearing it now. You can just see it's just a very sleek band. It looks just like a Fitbit. Nobody would know the difference. And again, on the back end, dude, is another applicable tool that they can come in just to talk on that for a second is, especially for people that are coming out of treatment. I know this is a situation I was in where, you know, your parents have, you know, financial restraint on that. And my parents who are struggling with codependency and different things could have had another support tool. And obviously, as I was doing well, they want to be able to support me, whether that was, you know, parents that are out there that are helping pay for rent or they're paying for their sober living or paying for their child's car payment or their phone bill.

This could be a tool that they can incorporate and say, look, we love you, we care about you. We want to be able to support you. We're going to continue to do that. But this is a non-negotiable. we need to know that you're keeping your end of the bargain up. And this is the way that they can check in through on the back end of the app because it's got Banner Rule of Notifications. It's got the GPS tracking and obviously alerts if they're sober or not with alcohol.

So it's just cool to be a part of all these different ventures and the things that have come up and being able to participate in podcasts and stuff with you and other individuals that are out there that are like-minded, trying to just be a beacon hope for those that are lost. Yeah, beautiful, man. I love that too. I mean, I feel like that's what creates a lot of conflict is. Have you been drinking? No, I haven't been drinking in this whole back and forth.

And now it's just right there. You know, I love that aspect of it too. But it's just right there and, you know, these are the expectations or this what we'd like to see or whatever it is. Whatever, whatever reason the individual is using it for, you remove that whole back and forth part. And rebuilding trust and accountability is huge things. I mean, I think of this when I had relapses too. I mean, maybe they could have went another. way if I knew somebody else would know because that's what I always told myself is you know I mean

convinced myself of this so many times nobody would know like they didn't know that time but eventually it's like okay you're kind of weird again what happened you're kind of acting weird again you're not showing up again stuff is missing again and uh that there's all it's all weird again here um and i think sort of that knowing that somebody else would know could have maybe bought me some time to either reach out or just to take a little bit of time to slow things down. Because every time I started thinking about drinking again or using again, the ball went so fast. It just went from zero to 60 and it was autopilot. So quick.

Well, and that you bring up a very valid point from that is also if something does happen, people finding out a lot quicker as opposed to a multiple day bender or relapse that can obviously take you down to a whole other level. And again, is there something about having accountability? you know what I mean and knowing that you're going to be held there and i mean i wish that i wish it was around when i'd had my relapse because a big part of with having a child now right coming out of treatment like that was a whole dynamic that my wife and i would have had you know is again doing the deal but it took this could help fast track the trust and accountability at a much

quick rate and mitigated conflict man and and the unsureness of of whether i was doing what i needed to do or not yeah did when you had went to the treatment the last time like where were things at with your wife. I mean, was their trust had to be rebuilt then? Oh, bro. Yeah, 100%. I mean, three years on and off of relapsing was very destructive. You know what I mean? And it caused all sorts of things. And I mean, she obviously has a very interesting perspective of, of, you know, what she went through and how she navigated this. And we speak a lot together around this because, I mean, there's parts where she was obviously adding to the illness, right? I mean, wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict, there's a codependent. And sometimes they're just as sick, if not sicker.

And so, I mean, she didn't, you know, because we met when I was sober, basically. And she only knew me as one way. And I remember, you know, she always brings up, you know, she never forgot when I first met her that, like, hey, I'm sober. And it's like one of my number one priorities, like nothing can come before that. And unfortunately, we got to see what happened when that took place, you know. And so it's just a reminder and something that we share about through our journey. But no, it was, it caused a lot of trial and tribulation that we had to navigate and work through.

and years of therapy. And but again, is everything that we went through and all that conflict and stuff has just made us stronger. And again, as I really commend her for sticking by my side and, and, you know,

I mean, I probably wouldn't have stayed. You know what I mean? Just if I would look to turn the tables and it takes a very courageous person. And, you know, and I think you can relate. I mean,

just I know what I'm like when I'm in active addiction, man, I would not want to be around that person. So. Yeah. Yeah, that is so true to look at it too from the other people's perspective, too. I mean, what it takes to stick around. And, yeah, I mean, it's interesting, though, because I've talked with people about this a lot of times.

And they're like, well, other people see something in us that maybe we don't always see in ourselves, you know? And sort of the, yeah, that things will work out and things are good, especially if she met you when you were sober, probably had an idea there of how you were or sort of the potential that was there. Yeah, and it's just, and it's just, it also is just like you don't realize that the pain that we inflict on them. I mean, you know, for months and months, I mean, she would tell me that she had, you know, put her head just on my heart to see if it was still beating and like just that trauma that they go through. And it's, it's really hard to, especially for those ones that are directly impacted because, you know, we, we struggle. We go away. We go get help. We have therapists.

We have doctors. We have, you know, psychiatrists. We have team. We have. And they're kind of left on their own. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, go see a therapist and go to hell and on. And it's like, yeah, that's helpful and great.

But, you know, she really needed more, again, going back to this further support, she needed more support in those areas just because of the things that she witnessed, you know, and to me, the self-destruction, I mean, addiction is like a slowly of suicide, you know what I mean? So being around that and seeing that is, is not easy to witness. Talk about the PTSD and the trauma that's associated with that. And so she's a big advocate for those that are directly impacted. Not only does it increase the rates of somebody getting sober, if they get help themselves, but also just, you know, advocating for for those to get further support and help that's needed for them because of what they experience and what they go through.

Yeah. And, I mean, that's huge growth to get to that spot because I was a case manager for so many years. And people's parents or whoever it was, they were not really, a lot of them were not really willing to do anything. And then we would discharge the client after six months. They'd go back home to the exact same place. And, I mean, it wouldn't take long. two days they would be in two days it would undo in one way or another not completely it would they would be back to to using and you check with them and it was the high stress environment is the

expectations it was the communication there were so many things and not to not to blame the other person in it but yeah I mean when you go when you don't do any work and people go back it can be very difficult so it definitely I'm with you on that increased the odds of this all working out for everybody if that's why they call it a family disease man I mean I mean, if you go back to that same toxic environment, man, there is a very low probability you're going to maintain a sustained sobriety. Yeah. Thinking about wrapping up here, Jason, what's one thing, man, reflecting on your entire story,

your entire journey that you could send out there to somebody who might be struggling to get or stay sober? I mean, I think simply this is, the best news for this is if you're going through it and you're struggling, this could be the last day that you ever have to feel like this if you're willing to get completely open, honest, and ask for help. I think this is the last day. I mean, this could be the last day that you have to feel like this and really, really just reaching out. And I'll never forget seeing that happen in multiple people's lives, you know, I mean, just understanding like you do not have to feel like this anymore. There is a way out. There is a solution. And it just takes a few simple steps. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. I feel like we, that could, that question can

be a setup for something complicated. And I love how you brought it back to a big part of our earlier discussion there of just keeping, you know, things simple. One other thing, too, that I just thought of. Did you know your last day using was it was going to be like that? Or was it like planned or no? Yes, going back into treatment. I mean, after having, because after the child was born, you know, I think it's important

to just give you context. So after my daughter was born, I was in detox for like a couple of days, went up to the fourth floor watch. I was, you know, was able to watch my daughter be born and be a part of that process, but it wasn't long after that for,

you know, like seven days, not even five days or whatever after that, that I was back at it again. And so about at the six month mark, that when I was, when I was intervened on, like my wife started working her own program,

getting help that she needed. And I mean, I'll never forget everybody walking into my living room. And I'm like, oh, shit. You know, this is, this is real.

So, at that time, I mean, I knew that I'm great. It was like a relief of, it was like a breath of fresh air, man. There was so much weight lifted off my shoulders because nobody knew. You know what I mean? Like, obviously there was some people that knew about the piece when I was in detox when she was being born. But when I can't, you know, it was kind of really hush, hush.

There was only a few people that knew about that. And then kind of like she made it known that I was struggling. And so I owed to her. I mean, I think she really saved my life. Because, again, is even with all the knowledge and everything that I learned through that time, man, it was so hard for me just to get honest again with myself and I had to go back into treatment. And so I knew that was the last time. Yeah, beautiful, man. Well, thank you so much for jumping on here and sharing your story with us. No, thank you so much for having me, man. Great work.

Well, there it is another incredible episode here on the podcast. Thank you so much for hanging out into the end. Be sure to leave in the comments on Spotify. Your thoughts of the episode. Is there anything that you could relate to that Jason shared? Where are you right? in your journey and let's have a little chat there. Don't forget to subscribe if you're listening to the podcast on Apple or Spotify. And if you're interested in watching the video versions of this show, head over YouTube. I'll drop that link down to the show notes below and I'll see you on the next one.