Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - I Was Drinking at 7 A.M. and Hating My Life | Gary's Sobriety Story

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

He had a loving family, a private school education, great friends, and every opportunity in front of him. Yet by age 33, Gary was drinking in 7 a.m. bars in Spain, waking up in hostels with no money, and wondering how his life had fallen apart.In this episode of Sober Motivation, Gary Mairs shares how alcohol slowly took over despite what many would consider the perfect childhood. From teenage binge drinking in England to years of anxiety, financial chaos, broken relationships, and undiagnosed ADHD, Gary opens up about the reality of alcohol addiction and the moment he finally decided enough was enough.In this episode:• Growing up in England and early binge drinking culture • When alcohol started feeling different • Living with undiagnosed ADHD • Alcohol addiction and self-medication • University drinking and drug use • Financial struggles caused by alcohol • Moving to Spain and taking the problem with him • Drinking at 7 a.m. bars • The emotional rock bottom that changed everything • Finding recovery through AA and daily habits • Rebuilding confidence, purpose, and self-respect • Why sobriety became the foundation for everything elseIf you’re struggling with alcohol, questioning your relationship with drinking, or searching for hope in recovery, this conversation is a powerful reminder that change is possible.Download the Sober Motivation App: www.sobermotivation.comGary on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sobernsound/Sober Motivation Mobile App: https://apps.apple.com/app/sober-motivation-app/id6759266291Sober Motivation Website: https://www.sobermotivation.comSupport the Podcast: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivationContact me anytime: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So I'd broken up with Gabby and I felt like shit and I was determined to make Seville a fresh start and within weeks I was worse than ever really. And then annoyed my flatmate and he was finding it difficult to live with me. And I was drinking in the morning, early, early every morning, 7 o'clock bars. On this episode, Gary joins me who had a childhood many people think should protect someone from addiction. supportive parents, private school, good friends, and every opportunity in front of him. But by his early 30s, he was waking up at hostels with no money drinking at 7 a.m. At bars in Spain and wondering how his life ended up here.

And this is Gary's story on the Sober Motivation podcast. Thank you so much for listening to the show or watching along here on YouTube. If you enjoy this show, don't forget to subscribe and leave your thoughts in the comments below. Now let's get to Gary's story. Before we jump into this episode two, you've heard me over the years talk about sober buddy, the sober motivation community, and now it's official the sober motivation app. You can grab it on Apple today. Daily meetings, accountability, support, friendships.

I'm also excited too because we're having our second annual sober motivation meet up this year. But this is a great place where you can keep your journal, plug into some tools, meet some people along the way. I'm hosting some free meetings as well. I would love for you to jump on, check the schedule, head over to the Apple App Store, Sober Motivation, or click the link down on the show notes below. If you're on Android, we've got you covered as well. Head over to Suburmotivation.net, and all of the information can be found at Sobermotivation.com

or send me a message on Instagram, and I'll see you on the inside. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Gary with us. Gary, how are you? Very well. Thank you very much. Yeah, how you doing? Yeah, I'm doing well, man. Glad to connect. It was interesting, too, when I had asked you if you wanted to share on the podcast, you refreshed my memory of when I had shared your story, like, years ago. Yeah, just over two. I had only just started my page, Sober and Sound, and I'd messaged you with my little story and before and after picture. And really, I have to be honest, it was that your share that just kind of sparked my account. I remember I went to bed and I looked in the morning and I had like an extra 1,200 follow.

of us and that gave me just a platform to like really build on. So respect me. Nice one. You've sorted me out. No, that's great man. And that's what it's all about. So what were things like for you growing up? Oh, mate, I had a sweet childhood really, to be honest. I grew up just south of Manchester in England and yeah, like leafy suburbia, only child, got great with my parents who were like normal and stable and went to an all-bushy suburbia. And, yeah, like, like, leavey suburbia. And, only child, got him great with my parents who were, like, boys private school, was popular at schools, good at sport, never got bullied. I really, on paper, had the perfect childhood, to be honest, which was kind of, I think it made it more difficult for me when I started to drink about guilt and shame, because, yeah, my childhood was sweet. I grew up in

a kind of salubrious area where all the Man United footballers lived and didn't want for anything, like the perfect childhood on paper, really. Yeah, things in school went good. How do you get involved with an all-boys private school? Like, was that a popular thing? Or is that a popular thing there? Yeah, there's loads, really. It's quite common. There's one in every kind of major town, I would say.

And it was just, if you could pass the 11-plus exam, I can't quite remember really. It's a long time ago now. But there was a specific entrance exam. And if you could pass that and your parents could afford it, you were good to go, really. And it wasn't like, yeah, people take the piss out of you because you're only a posh bastard.

But it wasn't. It was nothing out of the ordinary. really and I was reasonably academic. I wasn't great. I wasn't thick. And I kind of just breezed through. Do you know, I breeze through school. I didn't push myself. I just went and had a laugh. And when I looked back at school, I had a really good time, to be honest. So, yeah, it was kind of one of the standard things if you grew up in a, you know, reasonably well-off neighborhood. Yeah, which is so interesting too, though, because you're painting this picture of, which I've heard so many times on the podcast, right, of a good childhood. Nothing that sort of stands out to say maybe

later in life, oh yeah, I mean, now it makes sense that I'm using alcohol or leaning into alcohol to cope with life or deal with stuff, right? Things are pretty good. When do you drink it? I have a lot of people on from the UK too. Like, it seems like 13, 14. I don't know if that's your story, but in the park with the friends. I don't know. Is that where we're here? In the parks, yeah, exactly, exactly the same. I was born in 1980, so it was a mid-90s teenager, and the country was pumping at that time. It had, you know, the Brit Pop music explosion, my team, Man United were winning everything. It was just up the road. You know, Oasis were huge, and I became, like, me and all my mates were mad Oasis fans. So we're all like trying to replicate them on a Friday night, down at the park, drinking 2020,

which is this kind of flavored strawberry or kiwi liquor. I don't even know what it is really. And yeah, it was just like groups of teenagers just hanging around in parks, getting pissed. But like battered, you know, like binge drinking to excess. You'd look around there'd be like five teenagers all lying down in the grass, fomitting. And I think that was just the British culture back then. It really was.

It was heavy. And I don't think in this country, certainly, that generation probably drank the most, I would say. So, yeah, nothing out of the old. ordinary, 13, 14, totally normal, totally normal. Even at like a private school, it wasn't like we were any different. Yeah. Well, were your thoughts? Like, do you remember the first time you drank or no?

Like, were you worried? Like, it seems like, I'm only guessing here, but it seems like that could be sort of going against the grain for you, or was it just that normalized? It was normalized, really, amongst all friendship groups. But I remember specifically my first, I remember the first sensation of, feeling tipsy ever in my life, only because it was the first night of the English, the British National Lottery. It was the launch night. I think it was 1994, so I'd have been 13. And I just remember I was given a can of lager on the sofa at home and I drank it. And I remember when I finished

it, I wanted another one. I can remember, I can transport myself back to that moment easily. And I remember asking for another one, my parents saying no and thinking, oh, fuck. I can, I could easily have another one of them now. And then it became like on a Tuesday, knowing that we were going out on a Friday, I'd have it in my head thinking about it. And there was definitely some undiagnosed ADHD where I just couldn't switch it off

and I got obsessed with it really young, to be honest. You know, I was struggling come 16, 17. I knew I had something going on with it. Very young, really. Walk me through that a little bit too. How does it look like at 16 that you're what you're drinking more or just looking for more opportunities to drink? Do you know, it was kind of, I'd go to the pub to watch the football and my dad's,

and it might be midweek because they were playing in Europe a lot, my team. So we'd go every Wednesday night, and then there'd be Friday night and maybe Saturday night with my mates. So there was three guaranteed nights a week where I'd be able to drink. Because when I was 16, I looked 19. I was one of those kids. I was the first one, you know, first one to grow a beard and that. So, and then my parents were out at the weekends.

I'd be looking for booze in the house. And I was always the first one to drink amongst my friends, as in I'd be the one initiating it always, always initiating it. Like, we do a house party, and in the morning, there'd be beers around the, you know, like half-drunk, warm beers on the kitchen counter. and I'd drink them. You know, so it was like straight away. It was, I had a few things happen to me when I was about 16.

I had terrible acne on my back, which I saw dermatologists. I took all kinds of pills for prescription pills and actually stayed with me for about 20 years. And there was something there where I just wanted to like increase my confidence because it really affected me. And I was, it was all systems go from 16, 17. I remember one night in the park I said to my mate, I was like, I think I've got a problem with this. I can't stop thinking about it. And at any opportunity, I was, I was all over it, really. So yeah, it was, that lasted until I stopped drinking, really. I've got to be honest. And did you see a lot of drinking growing up? I mean, it sounds like from, from what you shared

there, too, like this was pretty normalized, you know, just in culture and maybe a... Yeah, in culture, I would say, yeah, I don't think my, like, my mom doesn't drink much. My dad likes a drink. And he was just a normal dad, you know, where there was, I played in a football team on a Sunday and there was four or five dads that kind of looked after the club for eight or nine years and we'd travel to Europe together, we'd go to Ireland on football tours and all of those dads drank and we'd run riot as teenagers and, you know, we weren't getting in trouble for drinking at 15, 16. They'd kind of roll their eyes. But that wasn't them being irresponsible, I don't think. It was just of its time, you know, so we were kind of, it's not that we were encouraged to,

but it was a laissez-faire attitude to seeing teenagers drink. Now, I think if my daughter was doing that, especially with my lifestyle that I had, I'd be all over it like a rash. But it just wasn't that way, you know what I mean? So, yeah, it was totally normalized. I don't think my case was anything special compared to my friends and their families. But my insatiable appetite for it was very, very different. Yeah.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that too. even you mentioned at 17, like sharing with your buddy there that you, you know, you might have a problem with it. I remember one of the worst hangovers I ever had. You just kind of sparked a memory for me is I went to a club. And I grew up in the U.S. You have to be 21 to drink. I was 18, I think.

But you could go in and party and then they would just put like an X, a Sharpie X on your hand. And then they saw you drinking. Yeah, if they saw you drinking, they'd throw you out. So I couldn't buy any out. But I just remember being so uncomfortable that I went around and like people went to the washroom or the bathroom and you couldn't bring a drink in there. So they had this little table there.

And I just drank from all of these random costs. I mean, pure insanity, right? Just leftovers and probably had like 20 different types of drinks, whatever, beer and liquor. And I woke up the next day after that. And my head, I thought for sure it was going to be. to spin right off my shoulders. But now when I think about it too, it's like, yeah, even early on, it looked a lot different for me than it did a lot of my buddies.

Like a lot of my buddies, I don't, we never talked about it obviously, but I don't think they were like overly worried about drinking all of the time and making it happen or, you know, setting the stage for that. But I always was. I was like, when can we get back to that so I can really hit that sweet spot again? because the first time I drank and got drunk, I was just over the moon, man. People liked me. Like, girls were, I don't know if they were attracted to me or if they were talking to me.

So I was like, hey, this is huge, right? That really wasn't a thing before. I was so nervous and maybe just quiet and shy and all of that changed. And I was like, man, this is beautiful. But it never really, when I look back on it, I never really got back to that experience again. and maybe I was kind of on the hunt for that level of acceptance. Where do things go for you from there? I mean, you're not really experiencing any consequences early on

and stuff like that doesn't sound like anyway. Not really, no. I would say probably 17, 18, when we got to the old part, at the end part of school, I'd start to be pretty mental at the weekends. You know, Monday morning at school, I'd be like, oh, do you hear what Gary did? Oh, did you see what Gary did?

Did you see that thing that Gary smashed up? So it slowly started to become apparent to everyone that when I was pissed, I was a nutcase. And I think that was my thing. You know, I was always, I was destructive, as in physically destructive of lamp posts. I'd kick anything that moved. And there was obviously like this deep frustration within me that I couldn't identify. And when I got drunk, it came out and it came out my mouth as well. I'd say things to people.

So I'd wake up on a Monday having to go to school and be like, oh no, what did I say to her? on Saturday night. This is, ah, ah, and that just, I was legendary for that. And it was the same at uni. It was the same when I moved to London when I graduated and lived there with friends. And, you know, I was just volatile. So there was clearly something in me that, well, they didn't agree with me at all, really. So it kind of, it became the problem and the solution. It was the solution to the anxiety, the feelings of unease, the ADHD that I didn't know I had. And then, You know, it was just this cycle of absolute madness. I mean I moved to London in my 20s, I was in a band,

and I was trying to play up to that kind of lead singer, rock star, you know. And yeah, it was just carnage the whole way through, really. So even at 1718, I was getting earmarked to someone that when he's drunk, he's off his head. Yeah, and that was every time or? More or less. Yeah, yeah. Every time just pedal to the metal. Yeah, totally.

When did the other stuff kind of come up for you, right? Because you share about, you know, your childhood, you know, really being a great experience for you. Like, when do you feel like, you know, maybe the anxiety kind of crept in? Like, you know, maybe the ADHD sort of affecting you. Like, maybe the, like what I'm most curious about, I guess, is what were the boxes that alcohol was checking for you? With what was going on, why continue at that point in your life if, you know, if you can remember I know it wasn't yesterday or anything, but I think the,

I don't know, to be honest, when I look back at my late teens, which is definitely when it became a serious issue, did I feel out of place at school? I never, because it was quite a posh school, and I was in the rugby team for a long time, and the rugby team, and I never liked rugby, I just wanted to go on a rugby trip to Canada.

So I played with all the rugby team who were kind of more stiff, upper lip, you know, the classic British, more posh under the scale. And I rejected that. I was not into that at all. And I, you know, my group of mates was quite, I was popular with everybody, fair enough, fairly enough. But I just didn't identify with that kind of uber posh British sensibility. And I think there was something in me that rejected that and wanted, wanted to be, you know, what's the word? Rebellious.

I really don't know. It's complex. There's a few things, other things that happen to me. It was a girl that claimed that I'd got her pregnant. And I found out in my late 20s that that wasn't true. But at that time, I was really stressing about it. I didn't confide in my parents about it. I only told one mate.

I was trying to do my A-levels, which are like the last exams you do before you leave school and go to university. And I just feel like the two or three life events that's sort of 16-17 there was an implosion there with me and alcohol was the only solution. It really was. And I was shy. You know, I relate to what you're saying. I was shy around girls.

But when I'd had a drinking me, I was charismatic, gregarious, funny, to a point. And then it was a wanker. But, you know, so maybe it was that, because I also found when I moved to London, I'd graduated from uni because all I did at uni was just drink and take drugs really. I didn't study very hard.

And I didn't have a vision for my. career or anything like that. And I remember waking up at you in London one day. I must have been about 25, 26 thinking, oh shit, I don't know how to be a man. I've got no idea how to do this. I can't face it, so I'm just going to get pissed again. So yeah, it was pretty great.

It was miserable. Yeah. Anybody around you notice, like, during university or anything too? Anybody mentioned like, hey, the drinking Gary or no? Again, it was, we were all. all doing anything that was put in front of us. You know, my group of friends at university, recreational drugs, ecstasy particularly,

it was so common. And we lived in a place where drum and bass was massive, so those nights were a lot of ecstasy. And I just ended up being friends with everyone that got pissed a lot and took drugs. But I do think, like, my closer friends would, you know, we'd go out on a Friday, or a Monday, whatever, and they'd all be, oh, I'm never drinking again,

that's it, I can't do this. Oh, that's the worst hangover of my life. And I'd be like, who's coming to the pub with me? You know? And it was, it was kind of one of those unsaid things that, yeah, he just drinks, he's got no stop. He'll drink at Monday, he'll drink on a Monday morning if it's socially acceptable. He'll drink the morning after a session, if there's beers in the fridge. He'll drink Sunday night when everyone else is like dying on the sofa. I'm my best best mate, who's still my best mate. I mean, a few times we'd have, I'd had big crying fits after being kicked out of clubs. He's like, bro, you need to slow down on the drink. But 22 years old, you know. Yeah, yeah. Okay, tomorrow I'll try. But even at

that age, I was getting into the cycle of, I've got to stop. I've got to stop. I'm so destructive. I'm so, you know, I was getting kicked out of the University Union. I wasn't allowed into the building for four months for fighting. and I was getting kicked off my course. It was just, you know, everything was a disaster, really. But yeah, it's not like people put your arm around you and went, it'll be all right, mate. Why don't you go to AA?

Nothing like that. Nothing. Yeah. It is so interesting, though, because a lot of people bring up those conversations that, like, maybe long before they quit when maybe the red flags are present, people around them, they mention just that. You got to cut back.

You got to slow down. And I think like, I mean, hindsight's 2020, right? And everybody goes on their journey, you know? So it's like not to be hard on ourselves, but I think that truly I look back on my life and, you know, everybody told me that. Not many people told me I had to quit, but they said you got to slow down. Yeah, you reel it in. Why don't you have less?

Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? And like, to them, all of that stuff made sense. They were able to do it. For me, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about there. like you guys leave drinks behind but i think that that's just was maybe sort of the lack of understanding of how all of this is if i could have cut back or slowed down or stayed within the lines i much rather would have done that like i would have done that on autopilot so when i

look back now like i wanted to do that but i just couldn't the majority of the time now there were times where like every time I drank it wasn't a disaster a lot of the times it was okay like it wasn't it was maybe wasn't great but you know it wasn't getting in huge trouble I didn't feel good about it but it was those it was the times where it was you know things went too far it got trouble or got arrested or it flew too close to the sun is that what they say yeah yeah and also back then there was less evidence and there was less you know recorded of said behavior. And I wonder if,

I wonder if that's why the younger generation drink less than we did. I don't, no, I don't know. No, I, no idea. But I think if, you know, I went through Facebook about five years ago and I just deleted loads of photos of me looking like an absolute wreck, apart from a few that I kept.

And, you know, the cataloguing of that, if it'd been on social media all the time, it may have impacted me differently. but, you know, it was, well, you can only live your own, live your time, can't you? Yeah, 100%. What can you do? Yeah. And I feel like there's different stages, too, that we, you know, we go through of, you know,

how this kind of plays out. I mean, sort of in those early days, like, hey, I know there's a problem, but it's like that quote that, you know, it's like, why do you always take the hard road? And then the person responds back, why do you assume that I see two roads? Oh, I like that. That's good. Maybe that's all we know. This is what works.

And it's not as obvious as when we look back. Like, man, wow, that should have been so obvious. Why didn't I see it? But at the time, you just don't. I didn't anyway. I just really didn't see that not drinking was even really an option. I didn't either. Yeah, because I was going to figure it out.

Like I wouldn't, yeah, man, I'll get it. This is just a rough patch or, yeah, whatever. And then I would get a little bit. confused, I think, because I would have some rough nights. Things would be disastrous, but maybe the next weekend or the next three times, things were okay. And I was like, yeah, see, you know, like, I'm going to be all right. Like, I'll just drink like that. But it would always catch back up with me to the, you know, the disaster again, but it was a little bit confusing. And then I could reel it in and it was all right. So, I mean, where do you go from there? I mean, you graduate school. That's big. I mean, do you jump into

like working or you move to, right? Yeah, I mean, I went to, University in the north of England and I went home, I packed a bag and I moved to London straight away almost within two or three days without a job. I had a girlfriend and we moved in with her mum and dad for a little while. And yeah, and then I got my first job. Her and I broke up and it just gave me this freedom. I was living in London. I was working full time. I didn't know my ass from my elbow. I had no maturity whatsoever. But I had enough money to pay rent. I had enough money to get pissed at the weekend and then I didn't and then I started getting payday loans and then I started not going to work on Mondays and Tuesdays and then that became my life really just living in London

house is quite common that you go and you live in a house share you know like with strangers rock up look at the room like it give the guy deposit get your keys good you know it's not like it is now and yeah I just was in that cycle in London for years really of underachieving, but when I first got there and her and I broke up, I just felt this, oh, freedom, I can just get smashed. Honestly, what I thought was like, oh, can just get pissed as much as I like, even though I hated it and I was conflicted. So yeah, it was just, it was really, it was until I moved to Spain when I was 31,

it was eight years of drunken, underachieving debauchery that just made me miserable. And that was, yeah, from 23 to 31 years old, that's all I did. I sang in a band and I took drugs and I got pissed. And I hated myself most of the time. When I was sober, I hated myself. So I had to get drunk to turn off the noise. And that was my 20s, really, relentlessly so awful. Yeah.

What were the routines like for you? Did you go out? The pubs, you're playing music too. I mean, that's a big thing. Did you drink at home at that point? Or by your son, for now? At uni, I drank in the house alone or with people. I would drink in the house on a Monday.

No one else would. People would start drinking on a Thursday. I was drinking every day in the house then. And in London, I'd drank in the house every night at home. And there'd be spells in, you know, moving around London, different areas. I'd move to a place and there'd be a really good pub on the corner. That would become my local. And I'd end up get off the train.

My thing, this is my drinking room. routine. I'd go to work if I made it to work and I'd drink on the train. I'd walk out of work. I'd get a can or two cans of beer for the train back to where I lived in London. I'd get off the train. I'd sometimes get another can so, because the pub was 12 minute walk away. And then I'd go to the pub and I'd sit in the pub with 50 year old men until 10 o'clock at night. Then I'd go home and drink until I passed out. It's kind of how I lived. If I had money. And when I didn't have money, I was climbing the walls. So then I'd get all these, you know, these, I don't know if you have them in the States, payday loans, you know, like

advances and the interest rates are insane. And the bailiffs that come to your house are very intimidating. And the letters are horrible. And then the fees escalate so that the financial weight on my shoulders was crippling. And it just led me to drink more and get more loans, you know. So Yeah, I was, I drank all the time, really. When I think about it, from like leaving school, as in school, leaving, you know, high school, 18, until 33, when I got sober, I drank. If I had money and I didn't have a commitment, I was either drinking or trying to drink every minute of the day, really. Yeah. I would say.

What's that like when you're going through it? when you're drinking every day or, you know, your whole routine there, too, of going to the pubs, like how do you, I think you shared a little bit of it too earlier. Like, how do you feel about yourself? I mean, or are you sober long enough to really have a look at where this is headed? Yeah, definitely. I mean, if I transport myself back to, like, a particular pub that I drank in when I was 25, 6, I'd sit in the pub and be beyond miserable and stressed daily, really.

So, you know, and I think part, my main concern, I think at that time is the financial stress because I didn't want to reveal anything to my parents. I was just that type of person. I didn't like to burden them. And then you get into the borrowing money from mates and not being able to pay it back. And just the self-disgust. at myself. In the hours I was sober enough to think about my life.

I was miserable the whole time. And now I do coaching and I'm, you know, I learn about the science of alcohol. I was in a highly elevated state of stress at all times, really. My nervous system was wrecked, cortisol through the roof. And I just would wake up every morning and the anxiety, like, you know, we all know what it's like, the anxiety.

Yeah, like almost every day for a decade, I would say, I just woke up and I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach. It's like, oh, my God, really? Is this what it's become? And, yeah, just a shit, depressing way to live. Yeah, it's like that sheer panic. Every morning, you know, waking up, it's that sheer panic of, yeah, and then maybe committing to ourselves, like, yeah, I'm not going to drink today.

You know, some people kind of go through that, you know, I mean, I know I did. Some people share 100 times of like, yeah, of course, I'm going to do something different. You bring up a good point there too. I mean, that's in the simplest form of understanding things because I think it's easy to really get into the trap to beat ourselves up, right? And the shame and the guilt can shoot through the roof. And we wonder why we're doing this. We know better. Like, this is not helping us achieve our goals.

But when it's sort of the only tool on our belt that our brain is used to and every time we're increased stress, stress or the financial stuff or everything else that's going on. Or we just feed it alcohol. Well, the brain in the simplest of forms, I think the brain is just saying, hey, that's what we've always done. Let's just do that again. And the cycle just repeats in the hamster wheel. We just keep going until we're kind of willing to try something else out.

But making that jump is scary and unknown. And humans, as humans, we like to stay comfortable, even if it's destructive, will remain in the pattern and kind of keep things going. So how do you, you mentioned too, like you moved to, you know, to Spain. Do you have any relationships too in this sort of stretch of eight years in London? Like, is that a part of it or no? Yeah, yeah. I had, I would say a normal number, two or three in those eight years that were always with

people that liked to drink because I couldn't be with anyone that didn't drink because it was so common for me to have a drink in my hand. it had to be with a girl that was a party girl. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, like they all ended in, you know, tears. The one, the one that I really cherished ended because I was just unreliable, not abusive. I've never been abusive, but it's just volatile, too unpredictable to be around, you know. Yeah. So yeah, and then I met someone when I was 31 and we fell in love and we moved Spain together. And I thought, moving to Spain would be a fresh start. But I didn't realize, you know, obviously when I look back, it's ridiculous,

but I took my alcohol dependency to Spain with me. You know? If you don't confront it. Yeah. You get Spain and the booze is cheaper. I had a great job. Managed to get a teaching job at a university that I loved. And, you know, I enjoyed that time. It was a really, like, freeing time to get away from London

and, you know, like, run away from some of the financial problems. But I was still, still Gary, the, you know, let's call, let's just say the generic word, still Gary the alcoholic, you know. And then all that came to a head and I separated with my partner. And I just, yeah, that was it really. I just went on a destructive mission for about nine months. I changed city. I moved to Seville.

And at that time, I was like, I'm 33. Like, when, when is it going to give? You know, my friends are all having kids. And I'm, you know, lying in a pool of my own piss again. And there was one particular weekend. I went away to a city called Granada, very beautiful historical city. Loads of MDMA, loads of drinking, annoyed all my friends, the few I had left. And that was it. It was like my light bulb moment. And, um, um, yeah it was coming it was a bit it was too late but at least it came you know and when i look back 33 i'm 46 now and 46 soon 43 is you 33's young to get sober so i'm very grateful but yeah it was a bit of a it was a bit of a you know cataclysmic blowout i would say at the end yeah and i needed something like what like what like what was it you moved to this other town and then did did something happen or is this a build-up of just everything since you started? So I split up my partner in Valencia in the August, the previous year, because of my drinking

and I loved her to death and I hated myself for the way it behaved. And then we all, all my colleagues at work were sick of me. So in January, I moved to Seville. I don't know if you've ever been to Spain. Seville is breathtakingly beautiful. It's also one of the hottest cities in Europe. So I was like, right, fresh start, moved with a friend from Valencia, we moved in together, English guy, younger than me, cool guy, another teacher. That was January and we weren't starting work until May because of our work contract. We worked our arces off for about eight months, and then we had four months, you know, holiday effectively. Right. There's more bars in Seville per square kilometer than any other city in Europe.

And I'm living in the historical old town. So, I mean, I was in a bar every morning at 7 a.m. And then I just went to Granada for the weekend to see a mate. And my flatmate came with me. And I behaved like a knobbed on the Friday night. And then I don't really know what happened. I took a lot of MDMA on the Friday night.

And then I woke up in a hostel that wasn't the one I moved in, that we arrived at on the Saturday afternoon. And I was like, what the fuck is my, like, I did. I just, it just felt different. I had no money. I got drunk on the Sunday with my other mate from Valencia. I woke up in his flat because he'd moved to Granada. I got pissed on the Sunday and the Monday with him and I woke up in his flat on the Monday morning actually, sorry, woke up on the Monday morning in his flat and I took two cans out of his fridge and I tried to

find my hostel. I've told this story a lot on social media and I had no money, no money, no phone battery, my flip-flops snapped and I was walking through like this horrible terrain. And I just knew that day. I was like, wow, right. Summing, something has to give. I drank. I waited in the center of the city for my flatmate on the off chance that he'd walk past because I was like, well, this is the most central part of town.

And I was stood there for about two and a half hours on my own, just like questioning my life. And then he walked past with a couple of people and he gave me 50 bucks. basically told me to go fuck off nicely, but he was fuming. And I took two cans onto that train and I drank one and a half of them I got to Seville, I walked into my

apartment in Seville and I was like, right, I'm never drinking again and I poured the last half of the second can down the fridge. I've not had a drink since. Wow. Yeah, it was pretty mental really. I woke up on the Tuesday, I rang AA from a cafe and they didn't have any

I just missed a meeting. It was a guy from Florida, actually, in English-speaking AA. And then I just spent the next four days, like, withdrawing on my sofa. I should have got in the hospital, really, or detox or something, but I had four horrific days. I went to AA on a Saturday. Slowly, but surely, kind of pieced my life together from there. Yeah.

So it was kind of a cool story now. I'll look back on it. It was a very good story for Instagram. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you didn't plan for it to be that way, right? No, not at all. It's wild how that works out. I mean, looking back at everything up until this moment, Gary, growing up, great childhood,

private school, going to university, and then things take a turn. Did you ever think to yourself, how did I possibly end up here? Because I know I had those thoughts, too, of all the opportunity I had and how I could have, you know, potentially I didn't. And I don't beat myself up for this, but how I potentially could have made a different turn and, you know, maybe things turned out differently, although I am, I am grateful how they turned out, but did it surprise you with how you grew up to where you were at, say, 33 years old? Absolutely, yeah, definitely.

Because I looked at a lot, you know, my peers from that school and my background and my university as well, that all made a relative success of their lives, that all being financially stable, become financially stable, they'd all had children, more or less. and not all of them, but I did feel, do you know what? I mean, I think that was my torment. I knew how much, I've said this before, I knew how much potential I had and what I could give.

And I knew, I was well liked, you know, people cared about me. I was popular. I'm an empath, you know, all of the above. But I think the torture was, knowing I had loads of potential and doing fuck all with it, was one of the turmoils that I got stuck in, which led me to drink more. Because I just couldn't handle my headspace.

So, yes, the answer to your question is yes. It was almost that was the torture, really. Like, how has it become like this? You know, if I'd have grown up in, you know, in a city and in an inner city poverty, and all my peers were the same, I might not have thought about as much. But watching your friends grow and succeed. And I'm talking like, I've got one mate who ran in the general election at 28. You know, like he's on TV as an economist getting interviewed on the BBC in a Tuesday morning.

And I'm like drinking a can of stella while I'm watching it. I'm like, where did it all go wrong? And I honestly think when I look back now, a lot of it had something to do with having ADHD. I'm convinced of it. You know, and people I coach, I'd say 60, 70% of diagnoses with ADHD. You know, and we talked about that before we started recording. I just didn't know how to get out of the cycle, and I didn't know how to break that craving loop. I didn't know how to get on top of it.

It was just so powerless, you know? Yeah. Was there any earlier intervention, or did anybody pick up on, you know, ADHD sort of symptoms when you were growing up? No, no, definitely not. No, at all. In fact, I would only say about four years ago, my partner in the car said to me, I was stimming in the car looking out of the window. It was going, hibbidi, hibbidi, hibbidi, hibbidi. It's like, babe, you've got ADHD.

I was like, don't be daft? And then I looked into it and thought, oh my God, this explains my whole life. You know, that period where ADHD became like a buzzword and everyone was like, oh, I've got ADHD. I mean, I did hours of research, rejection sensitivity and all of that. I was like, oh, my God.

And you know what? It was very freeing, because it almost felt like, I wasn't just a character floor. I wasn't a weak piece of shit that couldn't get a grip on his life. There was something going on. So that was, you know, a lot of people that struggle when they discover the ADHD,

but I found it very, it was an explanation to my past, I would say. So yeah, I was kind of relieved. But no, no, I don't think it was,

I mean, I look back now, it's fucking obvious, but. Yeah. You know, and I mean, the self-medication element of it,

too. 100%. Yeah. The drinking to slow everything down and then becomes the thing. I mean, I relate to that 102%. My life went off the rails. I was growing up, taking Adderall, riddling, a ton of interventions in the sec. When I was 17, I stopped taking it on my own.

I was just sneaking. My parents thought I was still taking it. I stopped taking it. I was like selling it at school of craziness. My life went to shit within a matter of weeks. Really? And it wasn't about, you know, I think like, and I could be wrong here. I haven't talked to everybody in the world, but I think a big part of the ADHD people think about is like, at the time, it was like fidgety boys, right?

Like boys that don't sit still. But over the years, I've learned that there's so much more like that. When you're an adult, that's not necessarily going to be a problem. But like when you're fidgety and you're in high school and it's kind of against the grain, it's not really what they're used to that that could create problems. But as you get older, you know, 40 years old, if you're fidgety, it doesn't really matter. Like nobody's, there's no consequences necessarily. But it's the other things. Like you mentioned, the rejection sensitivity, you know,

and how these relationships in your life, right? Like all of them are ending. And, you know, it's some of them it sounds like it's rough, but like that can, you know, have a big impact. And I think of how we feel about ourselves, right? You mentioned too. You're harnessing all of this potential, but you're not exploring it.

You're not like pushing it into the world. And that's relatable for me too. And then you just feel like, wow, you know what? Like this isn't good, right? And then it's like, all right, let's quiet it down. You also mentioned the other thing, too, which I bring up, I feel like in a ton of shows, is wherever you go, there you are. You know, it's like we want to change up where we are, right?

Like kind of change our location in hopes that that will change our life. And then, you know, maybe slowly, maybe a couple days in. It's like our old version or whatever shows up on a, on the, the next plane. So interesting, the first time I went to rehab, when I was 17, I thought I was doing so well. Like I was four, it was like a 12 month program. My parents had forced me to go to. Well, I didn't have a choice in the end.

I thought I was doing so well, right? I'm putting on this show. I'm four months in, right? I'm like really changing. And we used to have these focuses where the, you know, treatment team comes up with like your focus for the week. And I remember at four months, I got this one. Wherever you go, there you are.

Like, you're not. fooling us. It was something like that. And I was, I mean, they just came right at me with that one. And I was like, I thought I was doing so well, you know, I guess I wasn't to them. But it always reminded me of that. So you make this big change, man. I mean, you're like, I'm going in. I'm making a call to AA. You talk with a guy in Florida. How do you, how do things work out from there? Like, did you think like, this is it? Do you know what? I went to AA on the Saturday and I shared, I was comfortable. It was an English-speaking air.

My Spanish wasn't great at that time. I went in, it was full of people from Scotland. And I was actually born in Scotland. My parents were Scottish. So there was a woman from the town I was born in. And I shared. And I went outside after, and I sat on the steps. And I just cried uncontrollably for about three or four minutes.

And I was like, and for the first time in my life, I felt like, it wasn't catharsis. It was like, oh, it was just like a, a, cold glass of water in my face like, right, this is it. You have to. There are, there are, there are, there is one option here. And that is to go all in and makes getting sober your life's priority. And I felt that very powerfully. And I had five weeks before I was going back to work, which in some ways was good because it allowed me to take stock and think about things. In some ways it was bad because I had five weeks of like, you know, twiddling my thumbs, easy to drink.

But I don't know, it just felt, something felt inside me that, you know, seismic. And I just did it a day, you know, cliche, but I did it a day at a time. And it was, honest to God, the first, I always tell people, I feel like I had my head in an astronaut's helmet and everything was in a bubble for about three of four months. My life didn't feel normal. I didn't feel normal. But I remember I'd go and sit in a cafe after work on these outskirts of town and I'd make notes and I'd read the big book. And I just felt something in me that this was this was it. I don't know. And I knew it was going to be hard. And it's the single hardest thing I've ever done in my life. You know, it took me two or three

years to totally restructure my life. But yeah, I just felt through my core, that I had to give it my whole. And I think what I realized was, before I wanted to lose weight, I wanted to get a better job, I wanted to, you know, maintain a healthy relationship with a girl. But I wanted to do all then while I was drinking. And then I realized if I didn't drink, I think I realized quite quickly that all of those things

could potentially happen and fall into place. So I realized that getting sober was like number one. And I literally dedicated two years of my life to not drinking. To be honest, I think that's why people like my advice now because I'm very honest. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was different that time. I don't know. It's something the stars aligned for me, I think. Yeah, which is interesting in so many ways, too.

I feel like the old idea, and I mean, it still rings true for some people, but is this idea of like a rock bottom event happening, you know, it's like I got a, the rock bottom happens in the next day, you know, people just, you know, you know, Yeah, I'm sober now. I'm going after it. Like, that's motivated me and inspired me. I don't really hear that story that often. I'm sure it's out there.

I hear sort of, I think this story more, the rock bottom idea being internally, like maybe at the soul level, like the soul is crushed of emotionally exhausted, drained, like you want to pursue stuff. But what you said, I think, rings so true for so many of us. We want to figure out X, Y, and Z while drinking. But then I feel like whether we realize it or not, we go through these different scenarios and it's like, okay, this didn't work out again.

But it wasn't a drinking. Oh, this didn't get out again. But it wasn't because of drinking. Like, it's not a big deal. But then maybe we wake up to the fact that, hey, drinking is getting in the way. It seems to be the one thing that is consistently being part of our life. And, you know, maybe we see that. It's just such an interesting thing because I feel like, I mean, whether people are waiting

for something to happen or they're like something hasn't happened yet that we see in the Hollywood movies well there's you know how am I going to qualify for sobriety or change it and I'm just like nothing really out of the ordinary has to happen I think it's been happening for years for most of us yeah I agree the rock bottom ones it's a it's a dicey concept because there's always another level that you can stoop to or you could acquire you know liver problems or you could get kicked out of your house and then you could live in your car but then you could get the shit kicked out of you

while you're sleeping in your car then you're under a brick it's like where does it end you know like what is rock bottom so I think you're right it's that kind of I bottomed out emotionally I couldn't do it anymore and I think I realised

it would just become so overbearing I was like alright it's get sober or just be like this forever yeah what do you want you know dickhead sort it out, you know. Take control of your goddamn life for once. And I, and I had, and what I did quite quickly and quite well, I think, was I lost a pity party. I didn't entertain any victimhood.

I blamed myself. Okay, it's not ideal. But you know what I mean? I found the non-negotiables that worked for me every day, which happened to be meditating in the morning, gratitude, long walk, before work, saying no to every single social engagement and like delving into YouTube. for philosophy content and, you know, growth content about how to, you know, a comeback story, Alan Watts, philosophy, you know, Buddhism and all that kind of stuff. And I just went to, got up, did those things in the morning, went to work, and I liked my job and I was good at it, which gave me purpose. And then I came home, people said, are you coming out for a coffee?

No, I've got a drink problem, and I'm trying to conquer it. Are you coming out for a cup? Are you coming out for a drink? No, I'm getting sober. Hello, nice to meet you. sober. Hello, what's your name? I'm Gary. I'm five weeks sober. You know, I was like that all over the place. Yeah. Oh, come out on a Friday night? No, it'll kill me. I'm going home. And I went home every night for like two years. So I just found my five non-negotiables and then suddenly I liked

myself and I'd lost 30 pounds and my performance at work was improving and I was sleeping better. And I could look at myself in the mirror and I hadn't felt disgust. And then I got offered the coordinator's job at work. Do you know what I mean? And it was like, oh, empirical evidence that repetitive, consistent, quote, unquote, boring behaviours are going to change my entire life. And that's how you've got to do it, I think. I mean, you can maybe go to AA forever and go to meetings three times a week and call yourself an alcoholic. But I left AA after 10 weeks because I was like, I've got to call myself an alcoholic forever. That sounds fucking mental. I didn't get it. I still don't get it. And I'm not saying that they didn't contribute to my life massively. Those 10 weeks were

massive for me. But I just didn't understand what that was all about. I was like, no, my, because I'm I don't know about you, but I'm inherently a very optimistic, positive person. Even when I was drinking, I was like, ah, something I'll give. Yeah. And it never good. But I just, anyway, and I just thought, right, I'm just going to do this same shit over and over again until I redefine myself. And then And the desire to create a new identity didn't just become a desire. It just happened. You know, oh, he's Gary. He's a, he, oh, yeah, look at him.

He doesn't drink. You know, I was like, oh, I love this. This is great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, great job, man. That's another thing you mentioned there too, right? I feel like this could ring true and maybe something in line with something maybe you thought,

maybe not. But I think that it doesn't work out for us so many times so that maybe we convince ourselves consciously or subconsciously that to get out of this cycle must be so difficult because we've tried a hundred times and didn't work. But the truth is it's actually really simple. It's not overly complicated. It all starts with not drinking. While we're drinking, I think it's really difficult to make progress. Not that we can't, but it's like when you quit drinking, that over. opens up the opportunity to make progress because we've been avoiding how we're feeling.

You know, we're not sleeping great. You mentioned too, like that's one thing improved. Our relationships, what we're doing with our free time, drinking just consumes so much time. A lot of people are like, I get back three hours a day, four hours a day, maybe eight hours a day. If you drank four hours the night before and you're feeling hungover for the first four hours the next day, we got eight hours back in your life, right? Which that can be a struggle too. but when we're drinking all the time,

it's really hard to like accomplish stuff. Now there's some people that are outliers and they'll message me or whatever and they'll make comments on Instagram. You know, they're drinking all of this and they're, you know, gazillionaires and they have three private jets.

And like, that's cool. Those stories are out there. But that's not the majority of people's story. The majority of people, I think that it just takes and takes and takes. And when you put it down, you walk away,

you get sober. It provides, there's so much more time, you know, in our day to do all these other things. Yeah, and you make a good point about when you're drinking, you can't think, you don't think you can do it or it's very difficult. But that's because your brain, A, is your own worst enemy at that time, but also your brain's not functioning properly. So everything seems harder.

You know, you can't make good decisions. You can't feel joy from small things. So there's like no good coming in and your brain's not able to. like compute anything, you know, holistic or wholesome at that time. And then just, you know, I say to people when I'm coaching, you just need a prolonged period of sobriety long enough to realize how good it can get. And, you know, because everyone talks about early sobriety, emotional sobriety. Early sobriety is like finding your willpower to turn that into discipline,

finding your bravery, finding your coping mechanisms, galvanising yourself ready to go and then, you know, emotional sobriety, oh yeah, you've got to unpack a lot of shit maybe from your past, but once you get through early sobriety, your brain's functioning a lot better and you're able to kind of piece things together properly. And it's no, you know, clarity gives you a lot of, you know,

a platform for progress. And it's, I don't know who said this. I don't know if it's an iconic quote or something, but it's very true. Getting sober is way harder in your emotional. imagination when you're a drinker than it is in reality. Although getting sober is the hardest thing I've ever done. But it was simple.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It is. And it's like I feel like sometimes when I talk to people that are right in the thick of it, like their husbands leaving them or they're losing the house or they're losing their job, I feel like when I taught with them sometimes, I have this weird feeling. I'm like, it's so simple. But they're at a crisis point where.

it seems like they're rejecting the simplicity of it. Like it can't be that simple, Brad. I'm about to lose everything in my life. If it was that simple, I would have already done it. And I'm like, no, don't complicate it. Don't just keep this thing simple because you need to not drink for today, for the next hour,

for the next six hours. That's like literally your goal right now. That's your number one thing. And it won't always be that way. Things get better. And but you know what's so interesting too is I mean one part is leaning into drinking. I mean, changes the chemistry of the brain. I mean, we, we know that there.

That information is out there. But when does the point, this is so curious to me, when in our life is the point that we switch from not being interested in drinking, right? When we're two years old, five years old, six years old, 10 years old, whatever. I don't know about you, but I didn't wake up thinking about like, yeah, drinking. and if I'm not drinking, wow, well, so meaningless and life's so miserable and what's the point? And then this shift seems to happen to where we, you know, people are like cruising a long light, you know, cruising in their life. And then it's like, oh, not drinking.

Well, that feels meaningless or what's going to be the fun in that? And that's going to be so boring. It's like this shift almost takes place. And it's really interesting to me sort of the marketing elements of, you know, the alcohol companies of everything you see, right? It's like it's a party. It's a good time. It's celebrations. It's wins.

It's like people connecting. And I think that we believe like we can believe on a subconscious level because of everything that we've seen. The movie stars, you know, everybody. It's like, man, if I don't drink, like, I'm going to miss out on all of that cool stuff. Yeah. I read recently that 84 is just the number six of head, 84% of movies and series created in the X number of years have drinking scenes in them. Yeah.

84% of, you know, like over 18 or over 15. It's so, it's so, it's everywhere, isn't it? It's so ubiquitous. And we are, it's rammed down our throats, that it's glamorous, that it's the answer to celebration, stress, relief, blah, blah, blah, blah. That, yeah, I think we get programmed. I mean, look, we get programmed every day with our phones, don't we're about. you know, politics, bloody blah, left, right, whatever.

And alcohol's exactly the same. And the only way you really, the only way I think you really see it is if you go to the pits, you know, the depths of despair, and you get out of it, and I have nothing but contempt for alcohol now. Like, I don't see it as like, oh, well, go and enjoy it. You know, do it. I mean, yeah, go and do your thing, whatever. But really, it's gross.

Yeah. It's gross. How many women would not be sexually assaulted this weekend coming if alcohol wasn't in the world? How many people wouldn't die from car crashes? Yeah. So, yeah, it's a difficult one. And it's, but at least this younger generation aren't drinking like we were, which is something. But it's not, it's not like it was. Yeah.

Yeah, it's definitely, yeah. I mean, it's not, people are not drinking as much as, as they were, but yeah, it is interesting with all the marketing and everything, you know, that you see in the movies. And yeah, I think that that takes a toll. I even shared on the earlier podcast, I ran some numbers and looked into stuff. I mean, even G movies, it was 50 to 50% of G movies, you know, kids movies are showing alcohol in a positive light. I think 75% of PG-13. And I don't think any of it is a coincidence. I don't think that it's just like, hey, you know, And I was curious too, right?

Because you see alcohol in movies and you see artists, you know, music artists talking about alcohol. And I was curious in thinking, hey, who's getting paid for this? Are they just doing this? Are they highlighting that brand because they like it? They all make money. Every music, every show, millions of millions of dollars. Gary, anybody out there who's thinking about, you know, barking on this journey or maybe they're struggling. You know, I've got a lot of messages from people that, you know, they're just,

really struggling it to kind of get some traction going. I mean, what would you, what would you mention to them, man? I would say, number one, share, get it off your chest immediately, because you can't exist with this overbearing blanket of misery over here alone. And that's why a meeting or opening up or, you know, people, I don't know how many messages I get every day. I'm sure you've got a way bigger following than me. How many. messages you get, release the pressure valve, be honest about it and be open about it, because if you're open and honest, you allow acceptance, submission, surrender, you give it a chance. I'd make a plan, I'd look at your day, look at your day and look at when you're vulnerable.

You know, some people only drink between the hours of 5 and 7pm. What are you going to do about it? You know, how are you going to tackle those hours? You can't just hope you have to have structure and make a plan and strategize your way to sobriety. So I'd be open, share, make a plan and believe you can do it. And when I say make a plan, what are your triggers? Oh, every night I get home and the sunshine bothers me. It's like, okay, well, you need to do something differently other than drink.

You have to go for a walk and embrace the sun. You have to, oh, work annoys me. We'll get down to the gym. It's got to be distract. attention for the early days and find what works for you, be adaptable and flexible with your cravings and your trigger management. And basically, your central nervous system's fucked. Work out a way to control it. If you're not meditating and you're trying to get sober, you're missing the biggest trick in the world, in my opinion. Meditation, pain, gratitude,

these kind of things, slow it all down and calm you down. So, yeah, for me, it's about sharing and getting a plan. And I think it's not, I say it's not that simple. It is. Yeah. Yeah. People, they be like,

what is this dick I'm talking about? But, you know, I think it is that simple. It is. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of people who made it out in the beginning, it doesn't feel that way. It feels everything but that

because of so many times that we didn't achieve our goal or maybe it didn't work out. But I don't overly look at it that way, too, for people who quit. and then they drink again. They're so hard on themselves. This is like beat themselves up. We look at any other area of life, right?

Like say, my goal is to go to the gym 365 days straight. I miss one day. I go, only 364. Do you think I'm going to spend much time worrying about the one day? No, but when it comes to drinking, we just rough ourselves up and we don't talk to anybody and everything. It's like, I'm just like, get back in the game. It's all good.

Yeah, exactly. People think that the sobriety journey starts. the day they finally get sober. The sobriety journey starts when you start thinking about it, when you start considering what life might be like, how you'd go about it. That's part of the journey, as is a slip. Like, having a slip is an opportunity to analyze and collate data on why you drank. They're helpful and useful. All right. So I didn't have a good replacement drinking that day. I looked in the fridge and there was just two beers. A, what are two beers doing in your fridge if you're trying to get sober? And B, what are you drinking? Tap water. Why don't you drink like,

elderflower with a slice and some ice in a beautiful glass so you don't feel like you're missing out it's like there's always something to learn with a slip and expect it to be difficult because nothing that gives you goodness in the long run or success or feelings of self-worth nothing comes easy so it's okay to expect people expect it to be like oh i'll just magically not drink for the week it's like it's your like that jo rogan line about it's your own comeback story. Yeah. Get involved into it.

You know, believe it's possible. I always say to people, grab your bollocks and fucking go for it, man. It's fun. Yeah. Finding this stuff out about yourself, learning how resilient you possibly could be. Because everything in life is easier when you get sober. And all the future dramas and traumas that come your way, what you learn about yourself in sobriety in the early days will stand you in great stead

for all those kind of traumas. that are coming. So like it's a win-win, but just go for go for it. You're missing out on nothing. You've maxed it out, baby. Like you've been drinking for 30 years. What are you going to get out of it? Yeah, nothing new is, well, I'm only guessing here. Educated guess. Nothing new is coming down the line, you know. Last question for you, Gary, because you brought up that idea of what people, you know, what you would throw back out there for people and it's tell somebody for all of those years, what prevented you from sharing with somebody or asking for help? I don't know.

Male pride, maybe. Only child syndrome. You know, keeping everything to myself all my life, never sharing anything because that's how I grew up. I think I was too proud to admit I was powerless to alcohol. and the second I did that, my world opened up. So, yeah, God, I wish I knew back, I wish I'd known back then. Yeah, yeah. I'd say it's 2020, man, you know.

Yeah, I love that because I think that there's probably people that are right there that feel those sort of things and that's sort of in their way. So I just, you know, hopefully that can, when you get past that, you know, opportunities are endless. But I think it's also that our own personal. journey of when we're going to to make that decision or, you know, really reach out for help. So thank you, Gary, so much, man. So great to connect. Absolutely pleasure. Really enjoyed it.

Yeah. Thank you so much. And thank you for giving me that, the share back in the day because it really did, it really did give my page a boost and that allowed me to reach more people. So well done for all the work you're doing. You've done an amazing thing. Yeah. Thank you, man. So, so happy to be part of it, too.

Cheers. Take care. As always, thank you so much for. listening to the show. I hope to see a few of you inside of the sober motivation app. Be sure to look for the logo as there is another app called sober motivation, and that's not us. I'll drop Gary's contact information down on the show notes below, and I'll see you on the next one.