Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Is Quitting Alcohol Worth it? Updates with Liz, John and Justin

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

In this podcast episode, we catch up with three inspirational guests—Liz, John, and Justin—as they share their powerful journeys through sobriety. Liz reflects on the emotional and physical transformation she has experienced, John discusses the unexpected benefits of quitting alcohol to support his wife, Melissa, and Justin reveals the depths of his battles with substance abuse and how he rebuilt his life. Tune in to discover how sobriety has reshaped their lives and relationships in profound ways. Liz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dntcallmesarah/ Justin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justinbrien19/ 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 02:23 Catching Up with Liz 02:42 Liz's Sobriety Journey 05:41 Life Changes and Insights 07:37 Financial and Health Benefits 09:25 Emotional Growth and Self-Discovery 10:50 Challenges and Coping Strategies 11:41 Reflections on Relationships and Anxiety 14:17 Final Thoughts with Liz 31:33 Introduction to John 43:01 The Importance of Mindset in Relationships 43:44 John's Journey: Overcoming Challenges 44:31 Replacing Old Habits with Healthy Ones 46:05 The Impact of Hydration and Planning 47:05 A Shared Passion: Fishing and the F-150 48:09 Reflecting on Sobriety and Support 50:07 Introducing Justin: A New Perspective 50:32 Justin's Struggle with Addiction 55:25 The Turning Point: Seeking Help 01:03:40 Life After Sobriety: Achievements and Reflections 01:19:19 Concluding Thoughts and Resources  

Welcome back to the podcast. This is an update episode with three guests. The first guest up is my friend Liz. And Liz and I go way back when she sent me an email that I was really never expecting from doing the podcast about how it was impacted her life and were really connected and was thoughtful. And I was thinking to myself back then, my goodness, like maybe this is really helping people. And you don't know that when you start something that.

it's going to have that effect. So I was so happy that we got to reconnect, but this episode got dropped in the archive for a little bit. So it's a little bit older of an update, but it's still really powerful to see how far that she has come. It is really, really cool. And then I talk with John. And interesting how John and I collided.

John is Melissa's husband. And Melissa went on the trip in Toronto, and she was telling me a little bit about John and how he had quit drinking and how he didn't identify as having a problem. And I was like, is he experiencing benefits from it? And I was just really curious to see how that would, how that played out for him and sort of his motivation to do it and how it was super supportive for her. So I talked to John a little bit too on what his experience has been. And then we wrap up this three guest episode with my good buddy Justin, who is coming up on seven years.

And he was on the podcast many, many moons ago, but it's just done incredible work. And we've been furthering our friendship and stuff virtually over the year. So really cool. Thank you guys, as always, for listening. And if you're looking for a place to connect with other people that are on the same journey, I'm telling you things right now are on fire in the sober motivation community. So much support, so much kindness, so much empathy. so many people there to help you, there to listen, there to share their experience, share

what work for them, and just support you. Ultimately, that's what we're there for is to support each other, to reach our own personal goals with this entire sobriety thing. So check it out, some motivation, the community, it's incredible. Now let's get to this episode. Welcome back to another update segment of the podcast. Today we've got my friend Liz with us. Liz, how are you? I'm doing all right. Really glad to be here and talking with you, Brad.

Yeah, 100%. I'm so glad we could connect a bit. We chat here and there, but it's nice to see on video. And I'm excited to hear how things are going for you. Quick, if you could, just bring us back to the beginning of this whole process for you. And give us a little explainer for those who haven't checked out the episode yet. Yeah, so I joined the podcast when I was about seven months into not drinking alcohol. A quick rundown was that I grew up in New Jersey, had a really great childhood,

but I had a lot of emotion and a lot of pain that led me to really be desperate for friendship, desperate for other people. My drinking story was a lot about trying to find friends and trying to find a community. College is really where it took over for me. But I have a PhD in psychology, so I went through grad school. So a lot of drinking going on there too. So, you know, I don't have a story where I hit a major rock bottom, but I have a story where I was feeling physically ill all the time

and where I was feeling very emotionally ill all the time led me to wake up one day and finally see the connection that alcohol really wasn't. doing the things that I thought it was doing for me. I just woke up one day and it hit me. Wow. I think I'm living life a certain way, but when I look at the big picture, what am I really spending my time doing?

I might value helping people. I might value travel or I might value even things like recycling or sustainability. And when I look at my life and I say, what am I actually valuing in my actions? It was drinking. All the time I had, I wanted to turn to drinking. So I'm at work and I'm doing my best to engage at work. I might not feel well at work, but I'm doing it.

But I was waiting for the 5 p.m. when I can go with my buds and go to happy hour. Right. So that is really the impetus that led me to say, hey, I really want to be doing more with my life. I really want to be engaging with my day to day, not just engaging when I'm drinking with my friends. I started this journey. So that was about a year and a half ago that I was on the podcast. And Brad knows I've been listening to every single one. Oh, that's really been a huge tool in my life, an extremely important tool in my life to sit down and take notes when people are talking about what worked for them, when they're talking about the kinds of insights they've had from

getting off of drugs and alcohol, because then it allows me to turn those notes onto myself and say, have I tried that tip? Figure out if that works for me or not. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But it was a way for me to get the research done without having to personally do all of that, right? I'm getting all this information. And of course, as a scholar and an intellectual, the research metaphor works really well

for me. So, yeah. So since then, I can say that life hasn't been easy at all. My partner was unemployed for a whole year, so trying to live in New York City in this economy on one budget was really tough. Brad and I were just sharing moving stories. So things haven't been the most easy, but all of these tools that I've been learning in sobriety have been so helpful for everything else in life that I'm really at a point now where I'm not really even thinking about alcohol. I might be around it and I might see it and go, oh, okay, you're drinking, but I'm not trying to drink myself. It's not a thought that occurs to me very much at all anymore in terms of how I'm coping with things.

If I could go back in time to that seven-month old sober person, baby, I would say, just keep going because it's worth it. Because it stops becoming something that's so on the forefront of your mind, something that you're constantly trying to control. Yeah. And I think that was the time. toughest thing is you have a lot of space opened up. I just said my whole life was around recovering from drinking or getting ready to drink. I had a lot of space. And one of the things that I poured myself into was working out and a physical reality. Like I said, I was getting sick a lot from drinking. I took the time to go to doctors. I took the time to work on my gut health. I took the time

to begin a workout program. And I've been working on my diet. it, right? So those are all things that I just didn't have time for. I cared about it. But when you're hung over, you know, you want to go eat the greasy meal. You're not exactly salad isn't going to settle your stomach. So that's been a huge change that cannot be understated. It's a subtle day-to-day thing of waking up and just feeling energy to just be in the day is so important. And another thing on piggybacking on that, which I'm not sure any of the guests have mentioned in their update, but financially, it has made a huge difference in my life. I could go to the doctors because I could finally have a savings account in my life. All that money I was spending on drinking and the food,

the late night meals of delivering. New York City, it costs so much money. I have a savings account for once in my life. And I could go to the doctor. I could pay for those things. I was just telling Brad, I have two major dental work done this past weekend. It costs. thousands of dollars, I was able to just say, yes, here's my card. I can pay for that and take care of myself. And so those two things, they're subtle. They're not glamorous per se. I'm going to have a full set of teeth because I stopped drinking. It's just not something I would have prioritized financially or physically or time-wise to do. Yeah. It's really taught me to have patience with myself that whatever things look at like right now in this moment, it may not, look at it looks at. It looks

that way in a few weeks time. And I can't see the world from Liz three weeks from now. I can only see the world from Liz right now. But I know that when I started at, when I was at day 10, the world looked very different than when I was at six months. And that the world looks very different now that I think I'm well over two years and close to 800 days at this point. I don't really track the days per day, but February is my sobriety date. Things look a lot different now than they did. And then they did seven, seven months ago or a year and a half when I was on the podcast, that you have to trust that you're going to be a different person and you're going to be able to handle the things that are coming because you're working now. And I think the biggest change,

the biggest glamorous change is the self-insight that comes. For me personally, I was using alcohol as a proxy for the difficult task of making relationships, of maintaining relationships. relationships of it sped up the process of that bonding, that warm feeling of other people, right? It spared me from some of the rejection, sensitivity of, oh, no, is this person going to like me? I didn't care if you liked me or not. And if you were drinking, you probably did like me because we're having a great time. But it took a long time for me to realize that someone liking me and having a good time with me is very different than having a real relationship with me. And some of the emptiness that I felt constantly, that emotional pain I was.

talking about my body was recognized my spiritually I recognized that there was a shallowness and it was my body trying to tell me you're not living correctly you're not living according to your values you're not getting what you think you're getting out of this and I'm an anxious person I do have anxiety it's something I still struggle with but I think I was so used to going oh Liz it's your anxiety being crazy again your anxiety is just ignore it it's making you crazy but sometimes there is a message that your body is trying to tell you, which is this isn't working the way that you thought it was. I have embraced a more introverted side of myself.

I really found it. I really, what I was doing was abandoning myself in the presence of other people. What do you want to do? What do you need? And recognizing that is one thing. And then another thing is practicing that. I've had to do a lot of sitting with myself, being really uncomfortable. Sometimes crying in my kitchen, Brad.

Yeah, me. Me too. And instead of saying, what's wrong with me? Why am I like this? Yeah. Saying, wow, you've been through some things. What is that pain about? What are you really crying about?

And understanding it doesn't immediately make it go away like having a drink does or doing some other kind of coping mechanism. But over time, the more you sit with it, the more you understand it, the less it takes over your life all of it. So I think on the podcast, I told you, I just felt like I've always been emotional, but I nailed a point in my childhood when I realized I had some of the first thoughts of insecurity about relationships. And it was just something so simple, but I realized when I was six years old, my oldest sisters moved away to college. And I didn't know that they were going to move away. I didn't realize that they were going to move away.

So when they told me, it was very devastating. as a six-year-old, your second mom and your third mom, they're twins. So they're 12 years older than me. They moved away. And I think that was some of the first times when I had sort of anxiety about capitalism, about existence, about like, why is the world set up this way? Why can't we just be together? And then that's probably where it started that I'll be really good so that people won't abandon me. So that's something that's so simple, but it gave me that start point. It gave me something to work with as opposed to I feel gross. I feel anxious. Let me have a drink or let me abandon myself and get away from it or disassociate from it.

It's never going to go away that way. It's just going to get stronger. Am I making sense? Yeah, 100%. I think it's so interesting to hear all the growth in this direction and what we pick up on. And at first, we hear it oftentimes as, just, I've got to get through the day without drinking. And that is a very real thing. But then it's when we look back. There's a lot more maybe under the surface that we just didn't realize or

maybe struggled to have the clarity on too. Like I think we're very foggy and very less aware of what's actually going on. And then it's like people I talk to all the time, it's like every time we're uncomfortable, if we still have drinking in our life, whether it's this big huge fire in our kitchen or maybe a small fire, every time it's available. and we get uncomfortable, we reach for it. Every time we reach for more alcohol, we do a lot less of what you're talking about, sitting with it. Maybe not having all the answers,

but sitting with it, asking maybe a little bit deeper questions to ourselves, reflecting back, and we just reached the alcohol because it's an easy thing, right? I mean, for me it was anyway. It was $10, whatever, you go to the bar, you sit at the, I mean, your best friends automatically

with the other person sit next to you, right? But you don't know each other at all. you can connect when you're sober. It's like that could be a little bit more uncomfortable at times. But that's where we can also develop those other skills on how to build relationships in work. I was curious, too, incredible updates of stuff there. And you might have more, too, that you can share. I was just curious, too, when you touch back on, you're not even, it's, alcohol is not at the forefront anymore, something you're thinking about. And I'm a really big believer, too, about like, our belief system believes around alcohol changing throughout this process.

So that way, something that was so incredible and, oh, man, I can't wait to get to Friday. And all the great stuff, that changes to where we lose interest. It's either like none or very small. What's that been like for you to now was like first giving it up, right? It was there and we were aware of it and everything to now. It doesn't even really cross my mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially at first. It's like, it's not fair.

Everybody gets to go still do this thing that I don't get to do. And I'm screwed because I don't have, I'm anxious and now I just have to be anxious and they can just go. But yeah, with a lot of listening to podcasts, a lot of reading about it, you start to realize how negative alcohol is on your body. Again, just not being hung over. I guess it should have been a lesson in that. but realizing that the intoxication effects are basically poison, that's why you feel that way. I can't really look at it the same, you know? So that's something that is blocking me from even thinking about it in some ways because

even if I have that thought, I'm like, but the spell is broken. Yeah, it might make me feel good, but I'm hurting myself by doing that. And there's plenty of ways out there. I might not know all of them yet, but there's plenty of. ways out there to help myself feel better without hurting myself in the process. In going to the doctor, they did discover some issues with my pancreas. Luckily, the doctor told me it didn't have to do with any of my binge drinking previous. He didn't think of anything to do with that. But it is something that's also holding me saying, you really want to take care of yourself. You have some issues.

Find something else to do. One of the things I like to tell myself also is, You've done that so many times. You've had all the fun in the world doing that. It's okay. You're not missing out. You know what's happening. There's so much more fun out there in the world that you haven't done a million times. What are some things that else you can do?

What are the things you find joy in? And it sounds really stupid maybe, but especially if somebody told me this very early on, I'm really finding that life is more fun in general. Yeah. I'm dog sitting, another dog, so I have two dogs here. Yesterday I spent resting because of my mouth. I had to walk each dog separately. I also brought the laundry to the laundromat.

Just a quiet day. And I was just walking around, yeah, this is great. Oh, it's all I have to do. I just have to walk this cute dog. And there was something about it that it was just like, I'm having fun. I'm not waiting to go do something else. I'm not, I have to walk this dog or I have to do this laundry. The fun is there.

So there isn't this contrast of I'm miserable all day and I go home and now I'm still miserable. It's like, I've had fun all day. I can go home now and go to sleep. I had a great day. So, you know, it's not every day like that. Don't get me wrong. I have bad days. It's making it so there's less worrying about when can I have fun.

No. Doesn't always have to be like something to big vacation or big this or big that. I think too what I notice a lot, especially in my life and with other people too, is that it was like the roller coaster we used to be riding just was like the biggest one at the theme park of the high highs and the low lows. And in this roller coaster and I think where we find our peace and not drinking is that it's more, it's still a little bit of a roller coaster because I think that's just life. drinking aside. That's just life. There's ups and downs. But the downs are not anywhere near

what they used to be. And the other side of it, too, is we're not going all the way up to the moon, which is okay as well. I do. I like it because I don't, I find I just live in that more peaceful, less chaotic world. I was so used to chaos and maybe even had an addiction to that in a sense to the unpredictability of life. What is today going to look like? Who knows? What kind of trouble are we going to get into? How are we going to bring everybody together and have this party and make it cool and blah, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff. I also really relate to what you said to about the phoma of things in the beginning, right? In kind of thinking ourselves, like, why can't I try to figure this out?

Or poor me, I had a lot of those thoughts about why can other people keep it together. Even though they weren't keeping this together, I was also frustrated about how can they not keep it together and not be worried about not keeping it together. Why do I care that I can't keep it together? Even though I didn't really care, but I was aware of it of it. Of like, why can't I just not be aware of it like them? They seem okay with their life falling apart around them. And I was like losing sleep at night over it or maybe even drinking more because of it. So that always what is the science behind that? What is that all about? Yeah, that's part of what I'm talking about too, right? In terms of that it's funny, what we begged for, what we wished for,

right? To be okay that my life is falling apart. Wouldn't it just be nice if we could just live? Again, that's like your body saying something's not working here. Listen to me. So there's such a satisfaction in saying, wow, I can listen to myself and I can be curious about that and I can trust it, that it's not just run away or run away from the anxiety, but hey, what are you talking about here? You're trying to tell me something. Maybe it's crazy. Okay, maybe it is anxious thoughts. Then we'll deal with that. But maybe there is something here to try to dig into. It's been very interesting too because inadvertently in living this way, and you don't realize that people are struggling because we're not talking about that at the bars. So over the last two years, I've had,

had plenty of people come up to me, good friends of mine and say, I'm struggling myself. I see a lot of what you said in your, they listen to the podcast or they see me out and about. I'm out and about a lot less, but I'm out and about nonetheless. So I haven't really, I've lost some friends. And of course, the friends I had are not in my day to day in the same way that I was letting them before because I needed them there all the time. My relationships have changed, but many of them have come up to me and said that I have How did you do it?

Or, wow, I realized that I, it's not, this is not normal. And I'm pretending like it's normal. So it's always surprising to see what's going on in somebody else's head, right? So we think they're okay with that. But a lot of them are not. They just, like us, didn't see a way out of it yet. Yeah. You know, I have to be really careful, though, because I don't want to take on other people's

problems or other people's sobriety as my own problem either, because that can get into a very tricky situation. And again, my people pleasing and like myself abandonment can get sucked into that kind of thing, right? Yeah. So I try to model the way you handle things, Brad, which is to not be judgmental, not try to control them, not try to,

but just lead by example and tell them what I'm going through and tell them what I've figured out and let them figure it out in the wrong. own way because what work for me doesn't work for them. But it has been a cool surprise to be seeing a lot of people starting their journey and sharing with me on that road. So it's very. Yeah, that is awesome. It's so interesting you bring that up, right? Because yeah, we have to protect ourselves and have our own boundaries, right? Because if we get into somebody else wanting to get sober, it's a lot. It requires a lot for maybe somebody in to support those people can be a lot. It can be

heavy. But the other part of it is too, it's like, I always look at it like this way. I can't get anybody sober and I can't make anybody drink. I can't do either of those two things. When you're working with people or seeing people or have friends and as much as we want to do everything we can, like I believe there's the people who have to come to that sort of spot where they realize in one way or another that this is always going to end up in the same place. Like, I tried. I lost count, lost track of how many things I tried to make this all work. Like, I wanted nothing more in life than to just figure it out.

Like, drink on the weekend, watching football with the boys. I wanted that life. It never was possible. And I can't predict the future. But I don't think it will ever be possible. I just now in today's world, I don't have any interest in it. But at one point, that's like what I wanted. I could not envision a life without it.

And I think it takes some of that scraping our knees to get there. Because I could tell somebody and we could tell everybody, listen to 200 episodes on the podcast, listen to the stories, listen to the progression of how things started to when things get a little bit more rocky in different people's stories. Like a lot of them are different, but a lot of them follow the same thing.

I think people got off at the train at different stops. But I think like the train is headed the same way for a lot of us. I can't predict it obviously. how it is for everybody in the world. But I think there's enough research out there from listening to the stories and just meeting people that things just really don't change on their own. But that's, you know, I'm so happy to hear that. And people are curious.

And we even talked a little bit before we jumped on here about we can be so hard on ourselves, right? It didn't work out. I said I wasn't drinking again, but now I'm drinking again. You hear it all the time. I'm only at three days. I'm only two days in. I'm like, man, those two days?

might be the hardest to get and you've done it. So, you know, and like we got to pick ourselves up a little bit more. And I think be proud of our progress, recognize our wins. Wins are wins. It's not big or small. It's when team wins the Super Bowl. We don't say, you know what, they only won by three points. I don't know.

I've never heard that before. Wins a win. So we got to celebrate that. Yeah. And it can be frustrating because I want my friends to feel this two years. because it took two years for me to get this intense self-insight. But I want that for them, but I can't force them there. And exactly what you're saying, if they get 29 days, that's 29 days they didn't have before.

That's the message I constantly tell them is that you've accomplished something there and that has been useful. And that stuff, no one can take those 29 days away from you. So be curious about them. What worked? Why did you drink again? And again, I use the be curious. be do the research try not to avoid it don't shame yourself it's not going to shame is never going to get you to change it's just going to get you to avoid it even more just don't be so hard on yourself just you know

take one day at a time and even if it leads to you're still going to drink but you're drinking a little less or you're drinking a little more mindful right now that's part of your journey like you brad it took me years and you listen to the podcast i was on on that moderation hamster wheel for years so Yeah. Well, that's why I think people too. Sometimes I think people lose sight because we hear the stories on the show. And it's all one day we had a different vision for things and we start making those changes. And everybody's like, how did you get sober?

And it's for some reason we seem to sometimes listeners or maybe even us sharing our stories. We seem to forget about the years prior where like that one day, maybe the past crossed. But it wasn't just necessarily that one day. It was all of the previous years. Some people it's three years, some it's 10 years, some it's 20 years of maybe working at this without even really realizing sort of working at this. Yeah, I mean, it absolutely did not start day one of not drinking. That was day 400.

I'm trying to figure it out. I don't even know. I can't do the math right now. That was already. So I don't love the obsession with days. I know it's helpful, but it hides the fact that there was so much work prior to that. I've also joined NYU. So the school that I work at,

started a new recovery initiative where they're holding events and speakers and things about addiction and recovery, but not just sort of an intellectual understanding of addiction, an applied thing for people who are in recovery. And so I'm really excited to be jumping on that. It's hilarious. They have an event coming up called Dry Humping about sober sex. Oh, I know.

I don't know her name off the top of my head, but I know that's the name of a book. Yeah, yeah. I think they might be having that person come speak. And I thought, wow, this is so funny. It's so funny. It's such a refreshing way to approach just because it's funny. It's acknowledging real things, real issue.

That being sober is there's a lot of things to think about. And you can't think about it all at day one. But as you get a couple days under you, as you get a couple weeks, as you get a couple months, then you can start to grow from there. It's not just don't drink. It's I can have a new vision for what my life is going to be. Yeah, staying in the, staying in the just not drink. There's a time for that, but that will also get kind of old too, you know, like it's more of like maybe what I refer to as the white knuckling, right?

Like not doing anything else in our life, just simply not drinking. Relying on the willpower alone. I always picture Rambo grabbing the bottom of the helicopter, like jumping off the cliff. And like he's just hanging on for your life. You could only do that for so long. That's why I think incorporating other supports into our life and plugging into other things so that we can, if we have to do it for a little bit,

we could probably sustain. But you want to be able to move forward and do that work and see clearly for things. Any other thoughts, Liz, I mean, we could go on for a couple of hours. And maybe we'll do. Maybe if you want to, we could do another thing because a lot of insight you have.

Is there any final thoughts for the episode? Yeah. Maybe one of these days we can do like a psych, psychology, self-regulation kind of insights. I've actually have worked on two new courses from some of these insights, not about sobriety, but that's the coolest thing, I think, is that you're not just learning about yourself in relation to alcohol. You're learning about yourself, period. So it really tightens your relationship with yourself. So yeah, at some point we can go through all that. I'll get the slides out and all that. But I ended the last podcast saying the same thing. Just to remind you that

there is rewards out there, you don't see them right away. They may not be as flashy and as glittery, as hilarious night out with your friends. The best case, many of the people who are listening to this, that's not what they're drinking is, you know, what they're drinking is like is alone or terrible things happen, right? So this is a path. that's going to bring you some rewards. And it's worth it to stick it through because the more time you bank, the more self-insight you bank, the more resources you bank, the more your life overall is just going to be more equipped to handle life,

not just alcohol. New friends are going to make their way in, new opportunities are going to make their way in that you don't see right now. Yeah. That's for future you. but if you have a good relationship with yourself, you're going to be really happy for future you, then I'm going to put in a little time right now for myself in the future. Just stick with it.

Don't give up. Don't take failure as failure. Take it as an opportunity to be curious and do research on yourself and be patient with yourself. Yeah. That's all I'm going to say. Thank you so much, Liz. Great way to end things. And thank you again for connecting and being maybe our number one fan.

I don't know if anybody's going to dispute that, but maybe I'm number one fan of the podcast. I will take that. Thank you. Awesome, Brad. Thank you so much. Well, there it is. Great to catch up with Liz. And it's really interesting how when you go on this journey and you've been doing it for a bit,

other people around you pick up on it. And they might be asking questions. They might be curious about how life is looking, how life is feeling for you. And that's a really cool part of the journey. Up next is John, so I dropped a little bit of context earlier on, but yeah, I wanted to connect with John. I have a lot of people who reach out on the podcast wondering how they could support people around them. And I think what John talks about here is one of the best ways. It really is, whether you're the person who's identifying as having the quote unquote problem,

making that change can really help somebody else out so much. And we're going to hear a little bit about that here. So let's get right to it. Welcome back. I've got John with us today. John, how are you? I'm awesome, Brad. How are you? I'm well. I'm glad we could connect and I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on a few of these topics here. Yeah, me too. Me too. Let's get into it. Yeah. I'll give you guys a little bit of background. This is John, who Melissa's husband, been Melissa, aka the Sober New Yorker. So we went to our event in Toronto and we're chatting. And then she had mentioned that John had stopped drinking as well.

And I was curious about that because a lot of people who maybe don't have a quote unquote problem or are not experiencing consequences. I've always wondered like, how does that process go? Do they experience benefits from not drinking? So I was like, I was really curious. And then she was like, well, maybe John would talk about it on the podcast. And I was like, yeah, I mean, you can ask them and see. I would definitely be interested in having the conversation. So that's kind of what's brought us here.

So, John, what's it been like for you and what was it like for you, you know, with drinking? Like what was their relationship like with alcohol? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll start with what my life was like when I was drinking and the type of drinker that I was. not a lot of hard alcohol. I mean, margaritas, gin, and tonics was kind of the extent. Red wine was my thing. And I was having a glass or two every night, you know, probably at least five nights a week.

And not even, you know, it's just wine. And yeah, like you said, I didn't really identify. myself with having a problem, quote-unquote problem. But, you know, when Melissa made the decision to stop drinking, to get alcohol out of her life, it was a big deal, you know, and it was not an easy process. And I could see that she was, it was challenging for her, but it was also very important for her. And I quickly saw that my kind of casual drinking was not helpful to her. And I wanted to be helpful.

You know, she's going through a difficult, challenging time and doing something that she really wanted to do. And so I wanted to be there for her and support her in any way I could. And so it wasn't a really difficult decision for me to stop. So yeah, and then, you know, kind of fast forward, I would say that they are really, for me, kind of unintended or unanticipated benefits that I didn't see coming, that I wasn't aware of that would happen. One of the big ones is, you know, I run my own business. My anxiety and stress levels are probably off the chart compared to the average. person, I would say. And I've found different ways over the years to manage those levels. But one of the unintended consequences of cutting out my drinking was the physical kind of

anxiety and stress, things that I, you know, that I would experience were slowly going away, you know, tightness in my stomach when I got stressed out. So that was a big one. Yeah, if I would start, you know, bust open a bottle of wine around 6 or 630, I mean, that was kind of it for the night. So if I wanted to work out, if I wanted to get any work done, you know, it wasn't going to be, wasn't going to happen. Yeah. So you noticed that too, like your stress level or how you went through it. There was definitely a change there for you, how you handled that. Definitely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't even aware that alcohol or removing alcohol would have that kind of benefit. So I'm certainly not complaining. Yeah. And that's huge. And I think coming from, too, where Melissa's going through her own journey and that you're noticing how difficult it is for her too and then kind of getting on board and supporting. I mean, in that sense, I think is huge. And I don't think any of us that are not drinking. really want to put the pressure on somebody else to not drink because it's our thing, it's our journey and stuff. And that's something we talk a lot about in the community. But I think for somebody close to us to make that decision as well, I think really speaks volumes, you know, for support. Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate that. And, you know, I'll tell you, I mean, our relationship has really kind of gone to another level. You know, she is more powerful.

positive. I hope I'm okay saying this. She's, you know, more energetic. It's funny, as you know, too, running your own business. You know, there aren't a lot of people that you can talk to about your day, about what you're going through, you know, on a daily basis. And so when she started doing coaching and starting her coaching business, you know, we would have like these great business conversations. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, that is to be able to share how everything's going well, but it always feels like it's going to fall apart the next day. And I think everybody around us, they just see it as like everything works out. My wife tells me all the time. I'm like, this is my idea. She's like, yeah, that's great idea. It's going to work out. And I'm like, yeah, it's going to work out.

But, you know, there's also that potential of, hey, like, it might not. So yeah, I mean, having those those conversations. It's interesting you bring up relationships, too, because I always see alcohol. I saw it in the beginning of my life as the great connector. Like, go out and you meet people. And all you really, all I really had to have in common with them was that I was drinking. They were drinking. And we were able to kind of kick it off.

And then I found as things progressed, it became this big disconnector to where I thought it was real connection. connection and stuff. But when I really look back at it now, I think that it was far from that. It wasn't really that. I don't know that either myself or the other party were really authentically ourselves. I think there was always kind of that mix of like, okay, let our guard down, have a few drinks. But I find now, and maybe that's kind of like maybe what you noticed in a sense or maybe not to with the relationship is, I mean, it's 100% of the time authentic going into it sort of, you know, connection, which I think is so cool.

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree 100%. And, you know, it's funny. You know, I was just, I was thinking back about just some kind of highlights of the journey. And yeah, and I think that I've kind of gone through on generally what a lot of people go through when they give up alcohol. And then after a certain period of time, you're like, oh, let me, you know, what would it be like to have a drink now? And it's interesting. I mean, I, you know, I had that experience one night when I was traveling and I was, you know, went to a steakhouse just out of the bar.

And kind of all day I was thinking about it. I'm going to have a glass of red wine. And, you know, I'd been not drinking for probably three months. and the amount of time that I wasted, just thinking about that, you know, and then having the drink and then feeling like, oh, God, I'm so hot, you know, the physical reaction to it. And then the guilt afterward, I'm like, I just blew five hours of my life over a freaking glass of wine, like, you know, so. And I'm sure other people kind of go through that. So yeah. And people do, but I think it all like, I mean, people share a very similar story.

I think whatever, like you go back to it. It's it's the same kind of thing, you know? It's like alcohol like kind of convinces us that the next time is going to be different. You know, it's like, yeah, it's going to be different. And it's, you know, I kind of refer to it as like the first time I drank, right? I mean, we, we had a blast. Like, it was just great. It was the best thing ever.

And I feel like the rest of the time. I was drinking when things became problematic. I was just hoping for it to have that euphoric experience that maybe I once had, but that was like long gone. And I sort of had to accept that that would never kind of be the reality. I mean, maybe, you know, definitely different, you know, stories, but sort of how it is. And a lot of people share, too, when you quit drinking and you drink again, your body has this reaction of like, oh, my goodness, like, what are, you know, it's like screaming.

What are you doing to me, right? What are you putting, what are you doing? which is so interesting. I mean, I wanted to really have this conversation because I think that it is so powerful that so many elements of this, John, really interest me. And we're not going to sit here and talk for three hours on it. But so many things interest me is that a lot of people listen to the podcast, that they want to understand more about what it's like on maybe our side of things, right?

the people who struggle to quit and experience consequences and really damages our life, but they want to be supportive to whoever it is in their life, right? Maybe it's a child, maybe it's a spouse, maybe it's a friend, maybe it's a parent. And I think that one of the biggest ways, and I've had conversations like this with people close to me, really close to me, about maybe even though it's not your problem, you know, as your role in the relationship and where you're at. But I think it really speaks volumes if you're like, okay, you know,

this is a change that I can make too to be supportive to the change that somebody else is making and see how it goes, right? Like, is it going to be forever for the other person or maybe not? But I think it's huge. And I think it's really a tool that people could deploy in their life, even if they're not the one with the quote unquote problem

or the consequences or things. I think that's so cool. Yeah, yeah. You know, Melissa talks a lot about how important mindset is. And I think it's important for the spouse to kind of think that way also in terms of mindset. You could, I mean, I kind of related to, you know, would you do anything for your kids? As a parent, you're doing everything, you know, the sports, the school, you're like just trying to do everything you can to support them.

Whatever their passion is, you want to be there to support them. And so, yeah, to me, it's no different. Yeah. You know, you want to do that with your spouse, with your spouse as well. Yeah. What has she mentioned her thoughts about you making this decision too? Like, has it been impactful for her and her life and her journey? Yeah, we talked about it all the time.

And she's, you know, she's very appreciative, which, you know, which means a lot to me and, and obviously makes me happy. Yeah. Which I think is just so incredible, too, to kind of be on that journey and connect on that level. I mean, any other thoughts, John, for what this has been like for you, for what you've gotten out of it? I mean, do you notice sleep?

Do you notice energy? Do you notice focus? Or were all of those things, you know, pretty good before? or you notice any improvement like that? Yeah, you know, I'll kind of share some of the challenges. You know, one of the things initially was I was looking forward to that glass of wine at night, that margarita on Friday night, you know, making a few margaritas on Friday night. And so I was thinking about, and I've had to think about how am I going to address that.

And for me, it was just replacing it with something else that gave me those same endorphins. And so working out and eating healthy food were those two things that I look forward to when I feel like I'm, you know, where I used to look forward to a drink. That's kind of my use of the mindset is I think about how great I'll feel after this workout or how good. great I feel after this meal. And that that helps me, has helped me shift my focus away from the desire for a drink. Yeah. Yeah, that's huge. Any like game plan for things or do you just take it for today or for tomorrow or like how do you look at things from that angle? It's just like that. You know, I'm pretty scattered naturally and so I have to, you know, I make a lot of lists. And And I've, you know, if I feel stuck, I get up and just clear my head and walk and just start doing one thing.

But, but yeah, but, you know, as simple as it sounds, just kind of, you know, planning that next workout, planning that next meal, staying hydrated. You know, my thing now is coconut water. and I was probably dehydrated for a long time from just that, you know, a few glasses of wine on a regular basis and just not drinking enough water. And that switch alone from being kind of dehydrated to being fully hydrated is a game changer for me. And just in terms of my head is more clear. I feel better.

I don't get sick. you know like I kind of went in the past so yeah wow man wow all great stuff all great stuff well I appreciate you hanging out and sharing a little bit of the insight on what it's been like for you my pleasure I do have to say though we have something in common that we have not talked about and when I saw your blue F-150 a thought came to my mind you know that's saying money can't buy you happiness you know those people have never had an f-150 so i got to take a trip up there and we got to go take a cruise on that thing and maybe go fishing yeah like that you know i know Melissa tells me that you're quite the fisherman now starting out anyway right you went fishing with your your buddy there

a couple times yeah it's just um yeah it's actually interesting the f-150 that was the first thing i got that I was able to get on my own after getting sober. Really? Yeah, it was the first loan I was able to get. And now it's what, 12, 13 years old. And I mean, it's close to retirement, but I think until the wheels fall off of it, I'm going to keep going. You know, you're preaching to the choir. So it was beautiful when I saw it.

Yeah. Well, thanks again, John. My pleasure. Well, that was so cool to sit down with John and just hear his again. experience. I think sometimes people who might not quote unquote identifies having a problem or consequences from drinking feel like there might not be any benefits to not drinking. And John just shared a few of the unanticipated benefits of him giving up alcohol. And I think it was really cool that John was open to coming on the podcast and sharing his

experience with us because this is not necessarily what he's doing every day or something that's so common to him. So that was really, really cool. And part of the reasoning is supporting Melissa, which I also think is just incredible. When you see that it's so difficult for someone else and you don't have a problem, but you decide to walk away as well in support, I think that that's incredible. I hear so many stories where one person in their relationship is wanting to quit or they have quit. And their partner is still drinking.

And everything falls on a spectrum. Sometimes it's causing problems. Sometimes it's not. But I think it can be a very tricky thing to navigate, especially early on, about how that's going to look. And I hear a lot of people that might be married for years. And that's how they bonded. That's how they connected.

And then one person is not drinking anymore. Sometimes they're trying to find other ways of. how are they going to stay connected or further their connection? And I just think supporting somebody in that way, and it might not be forever, but in the beginning, I think it's really, really cool. Now we're going to jump into here from Justin,

which did a really good job in his first episode and was really great to have him. And then we've stayed in contact ever since. So, yeah, let's hear from Justin. We've got my buddy Justin with us today. Justin, how are you? I'm doing well, man. It's great to be here.

It's great to see that face of yours and that precious, precious beard. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, man, we'll start off with just giving everybody sort of the Cliff Notes version of your story and what brings you here today where you're at in your journey. And that would be a good place to kick this episode off. All right. Well, thanks, man. Well, I grew up with very low self-esteem, low self-worth and low self-confidence. And I found that confidence, self-esteem and self-worth, without.

Alcohol, probably when I moved away to play junior hockey. I, you know, I was living with a billet, and, you know, I didn't really have anybody watching me. I'm an 18, 19 year old kid. And, you know, I just, I started, I didn't drink much in high school, but, you know, when I got out of high school, moved away for hockey, I know, I found it, right? And I found that, that self-esteem, self-worth, self-confidence. I found alcohol. And it just made me feel better about myself, right? But what I didn't realize is, like, is, like, everything was giving me was fake.

everything started to take away from me was very real. By the time I'm 21 years old, I'm basically drinking every single day. I'm, I moved to Vancouver. I start bartending. What does an alcoholic do? Well, it goes with alcohol. So I start bartending, right? I'm out every single night, basically drinking by myself some of the nights,

just bar hopping, going to see the other bartenders, you know, pretending to myself, like, I'm not pathetic or anything. Like, oh, I'm just going to see my buddies, right? So, you know, you come with all these excuses to be around it, right? And all of a sudden, one day, I find cocaine. And after I did it, my buddy said something to me. He said, Justin, man, you were funny. And all of a sudden, I realized I have alcohol for confidence and cocaine to be funny.

You know, I got the special juice. And I'm special, Justin now. I'm super Justin. And I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that thought I was super. Justin, you know, fast forward, you know, four months, yeah, four or six months down the road, I moved back home after, after fighting cocaine at 24. And I'm driving with a buddy and we talk about depression and what do I know about depression? Like, that was 16 years ago now. And I'm like, was it some sort of sadness? Depression's for the week. Depression is an excuse. You know,

you got to man up. You got to go to work. You got to pay your bills. Now, 24 years old. I have two major problems, you know, substance use with drugs and alcohol, my mental health, that I'm using, I didn't know at the time, I'm using drugs and alcohol to cope with the pain that I was going to, to essentially be someone else, right? To be someone I'm not, right? To, I used alcohol and drugs to, to leave my house, to have conversations with people. I would have a certain amount of drinks or I'd get cocaine. I'd be like, okay, well, if I get this, I'm going to be this. If I do this, I'm going to be able to talk to this person.

And then I get to the nightclub, okay, I'm going to have this many drinks. And then I'm going to dance with this girl. And then eventually, I'm using it to survive. I'm using it to play sports even. Like I have to have two or three drinks just to calm my anxiety when I was playing hockey and rec league hockey. But I'm using it for survival mode, just to leave my house. And, you know, you wake up, you have withdrawals.

starting to go through the shake. So what do you do? Well, you have a couple more drinks. Right. But then all of a sudden, the craving got super, super high. I remember my first craving was when I was playing hockey. I had a beer. And then I was waiting for my buddy to finish his beer because I really wanted another one. And I'm like, okay, have another beer. I'm like, I really want another. So I remember my first craving. Like, I really want this. And I didn't understand why. And it was a year later where I was playing my last year of hockey. Something was, was going on and I didn't know what. I had no joy in my life, right? No joy in my life if I was sober, but I didn't put the two together. Um, and I asked for help. I said, actually I tried to quit,

twit hockey and my, my coach said, Justin, you know, just go talk to this doctor. And, you know, I went and talked to a doctor, but he just, we just, I don't remember what we even talked about. And, um, I reached out to him at a later date to ask him and he couldn't remember either because it was like, this is three years ago. So it had been like 14. years after. But I decided to stay and then, you know, I kept drinking. But at 21, sorry, if we're going to rewind a second, you know, I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what it was and I didn't understand it.

And when I asked for help, I didn't really get any clarity on, okay, this is probably what's going on. So I just continued that cycle. Fast forward to 24, I have the problems with both mental health, substance use. 28, I finally realized, holy cow, because I'm losing things in my life. I'm losing jobs and friends don't want to be around me. I'm like, geez, man, like you are struggling with your mental health, right? And you use drugs and alcoholics. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to ask for help. But then all of a sudden I start to be suicidal, right? I meet this girl, we have a kid.

And I, well, when the kid was on the way, I got in a car accident, drinking and driving. So I'm like, okay, I got to go to rehab. So I go to rehab. So I go to rehab. you know, go all my classes, go to the gym, you know, feeling good when I get out. What was the first thing I said when I get out of rehab? Well, I'm not done drinking forever. Huh. Okay, Justin, you just spent 35 days away from your pregnant girlfriend, your family, and, you know, what was your attitude? It's not the alcohol. I'm going to control it, which I think a lot of us in the beginning

stages or like earlier on we're like we just want to control it right because we have the fear of missing out right and we could talk about the fear of missing out later um but we have the fear missing out on the fun times and not being that person that people can come to or not being the life of the party or not having those good feelings that we have without it so start using again one month later um start making bad decisions all of a sudden my girlfriend packs up my son leaves me at my lowest point and yeah i don't blame her i was in no shape to have a kid around she didn't know i was a wildcard she didn't know if she's going to come home i'm going to be sober or drunk or anything like that so she left and you know my

suicidal thoughts got super super heightened um and i won't go into too much detail but they got so bad where you know i became an organ donor uh to prepare my body to give us somebody else and I tried to get healthy like I tried to you know take kidney flush and eat healthy and I tried to quit drinking so I could essentially donate my body and I remember going into coming into the DMV to become an organ donor and he's like oh you're you're such a good person and I just remember looking at and be like well if you if you only knew and I just smiled and then you know one day I woke up and I didn't remember the night and I looked down

And, you know, there's blood in my bed. There's a knife there. And I was like, holy cow, I'm like, I'm lucky to be here. But that didn't change. I got nervous. I got scared. And I kept that incident to myself for a very, very long time. I started wearing makeup on my wrist.

So wearing wristbands over it so nobody could see it, I guess. Because I was super embarrassed of what I did. I don't remember doing it. But I didn't want anybody know. And one of the reasons I didn't want anybody knows, because I didn't want my son to be taken away. I was scared of people finding out and be like, okay, this guy's an unfit father.

And I could only see my son twice a week, four hours at a time, because it's a court order. And so I saw my son very little. And, you know, my life was just coming crashing down. Work told me to take a leave of absence. Ended up losing a buddy to a best friend of mine to overdose. And at that point, actually, when I lost him, I was nine months sober. I was doing pretty good.

And then he died of an overdose. And what do I do? I go celebrate his overdose by getting drunk and getting high. And that's the problem is, like, everybody you look, it's alcohol celebrated. It's celebrating at this big thing to do, to feel better about yourself, to come together, to have connection. You got to drink, right? and so many of us, if someone passes away drinking and driving or if someone overdoses, like they cheers to him.

Like he's or she's looking down on us and be like thinking, yeah, you know what? I hope they do some drugs because to celebrate my life, I hope they get hammered to celebrate my life. And I know it brings comfort to people, but it's just it's the way I look back on it now and how I celebrated my buddy's passing who overdoses. just like, what am I doing? Right? So I ruined my nine months sobriety right there.

And I felt great. I was, you know, probably going to get a promotion at work. They just wanted to know that I could get sober, right? And I needed to keep that street going. But no, it, I ruined it. So here I am. I'm like in between 30 and 34, I barely see my son fighting to get sober.

Work tells me to take a leave absence. I have to bury. pretty my best friend to overdose. And I'm like, what am I doing? And I tried to quit. It actually took me 300, what is it, 312 Mondays of saying, Justin, I'm going to quit. Just this weekend. Just this weekend.

I'm going to quit Monday. I'm going to quit Monday. So it was six years of actively trying to quit. And for me to quit, I had to, you know, find myself alone sitting in my basement suite. living underneath my mother. I had the curtains closed. It was dark in there, but I could see pictures of my son and I

and his hockey stick on the ground, his toys in the corner. And I'm like, Justin, man, like, you've got two choices. You can continue down this path, which is probably going to take your life and your son's going to grow up with his biological father. Is that what you want?

Or you can ask for help and tell the truth. Because at that point, there was nobody in my life that knew I was suicidal. My doctors, my counselors, because I was still going to counseling or trying counseling anyways, and I'm still checking in with my general physician every now and then. They kept asking if I was suicidal, and I just looked at them straight in the face. No?

Just like, I'm sure some Loddus can attest to this, but we could stone face lie. Like, just look at you. Are you using? No. Did you use? No. Are you drunk now? No. Right? But I would tell my counselor, like, I would tell these things, no, because I was just so scared. I didn't want to look weak. I didn't want to get my son take away. But finally, I'm like, Justin, man, like, what are you doing? You got nothing

in your life. You lost your job. You lost your family. You lost your kid. You're losing, you're losing your life. You've lost interest in the things you love to do. Like, you live underneath your mom, and your life is going nowhere. What can you do? what can I do right now? So I formed my mom and asked her to come pick me up. She was at work. And I said, Mom, you need to take me to the hospital?

And she did. And what if my mom's sitting beside me and my dad in front of me and the calisansom are right? That's finally, it's the first day, January 4th, 2019. I said, if I continue to feel like this, I don't want to be here anymore. But I have a plan.

And that plans to leave this earth. And it wasn't until recently that I just I realized, I'm like, what would it be like to be my father and my mother in that position? Like, I know they were there to support me, but I couldn't imagine hearing that out of their child's voice, right? I was so good at hiding my mental health struggles for so long. Like, people started to see it, but then I started to hide them because, you know, you get guilt and shame for, for misusing drugs and alcohol. But you get guilt and shame for, I got guilt and shame for being depressed. I used to think, Justin, you don't deserve to be depressed.

You're athletic, you're smart, you're talented, you got an amazing family. Like, you don't deserve it, man. But on the flip side, I was like, you deserve because you're fucking up. You deserve depression because you keep making these choices that you're making. So I had this internal battle of guilt and shame for being depressed thinking I didn't deserve it, but on the flip side, I do deserve it. But on that day, you know, I got to take a weight off my shoulders. And it felt pretty good.

And since that day, I know, I've been sober ever since. I'm coming up seven years in January. I got back together with the mother of my children. We welcome to new baby girl. You know, I get to speak to not only youth in schools, but to sports teams, like junior hockey teams. And I get to speak. mills and minds and like businesses and to men, um, just to say, hey, guys, like, you don't need to man up. You need to speak up. And I get to show kids that you don't need a substance to love

yourself, right? And, and, and in sports is like, your identity isn't just sports. It's who you are as a human being. Your identity is who you become on the way to maybe, you know, becoming that athlete. And I've been very fortunate to be able to turn my life around and, you know, meet guys like you and have a different circle, I guess, you could say. Yeah. Thanks, dude, for sharing all that, man. It brings me back. I remember the episode now, too, like you were at your mom's place, too, when you had the, you know, the incident with the knife and everything. I mean, it's just wild turn of events, man. I mean, I've met a lot of people over the years of doing this and just always blown away by how people turn it around from that place of, you know,

bartending and cocaine and alcohol and, I mean, really going nowhere fast, right? Like I was in a, you know, similar spot too. But it's so wild when you're wrapped up in it, I don't know. Like, for me, it kind of felt normal. Like, I know people around me were like, this isn't, you're going nowhere fast. But in my mind, I, for years, I had a really hard time seeing that. I thought I was like living and things were good. And you mentioned like working in restaurants and you have all the people you hang out with and it kind of feels good.

Like these are genuine connections. There's really, you know, for me anyway, there really wasn't much of that. I'm just wondering, man, because you have your son come into your life, right? And I hear this a lot, man, from a lot of people. You know, when I have kids, right? When this happens, if that ever happens, right, I'm for sure going to turn a corner. Like I'll leave all of this behind in a split second. Did you ever wonder to yourself, like, why isn't this enough for me to turn things around?

Yeah, 100%. I know, I know my wife really did, right? I mean, she's my wife now, but when we were together, she had a hard time thinking, why can't he quit for us? And it took her years to understand that it wasn't them, right? It wasn't her. It was me in the internal battle, you know, I was having. And when I first found out that I was going to be a father, you know, what do you think?

You get, oh, yeah, man, I'm so pumped up. I was sad when I was scared. I was sad because I'm like, I don't want him to grow up to be just like me. And I was scared that, you know, I was just going to fail and fail. Like I did fail to get sober over and over and over again. But it took me to make him my why to realize that my life is worth living. and I tell people like, listen, people say you're going to do it for yourself and yeah, you should, but, you know, if you can't, you got to find a why.

You know, you grab a hold of it and take it with you everywhere. Because here's the thing about the why is like whoever or whatever you do it for. It always comes back on you. Because I got better for him, I got better for me and that's why I can help other people. But that is the question. It's like, why can't you succeed in this? Like, why are you failing? you have so much in front of you that you love.

But the question is, is like maybe why can't we do it for me? What are we missing that leads us to using the alcohol? The alcohol is the vehicle. What's the driver? What's the driver inside that's leading us to that? And I think that's one of the biggest questions is maybe to stop asking, why can I do it for them and start asking you, why can't I do it for me? Yeah.

And I mean, I think you kind of shared what helps. helped you the most is like reaching out for help. You know, I mean, you got to get help. You have to have help with it because I hear people that you have all these twists and turns in life. All these events happen. But at the end of the day, when we're in the struggle of it, we don't have the tools. It's like trying to build a house with just a drill. Like you show up to the thing and it's like, yeah, I want to, I want to build a house and I'm fired up to do it. But you show up. And if you just don't have the tools, you're not going to get the job done. And I think asking for help opens up the door to start to learn a few things, get out of our own way, and maybe pick up

a few things that can help us out, trying to do it all on our own and trying to figure it out. It works for some people, and I'm not saying don't do it if it's working for you, but I find it a lot easier to just raise our hand up and say, I just don't have it figured out. I need a little bit of help and I need a little bit of support. And I think that's a great message, man, that I always take away from our conversation. nations. And I mean, that is a good question. You know, I mean, kind of what's fueling the whole thing? I had another thing, too, for you, man. Just in a lot of conversations I've been having recently, and I was curious about your perspective on this, fears of not drinking anymore or getting

sober, right? There's a big part of our identity that gets attached to sort of this lifestyle or these connections or so many different elements. And then it's like, okay, if I get sobered up, It seems like it's a far out universe, you know, something that we have a hard time wrapping our head around. What were the fears you had about getting sober? Did any of them come true? What did that look like for you? We always used to have the fear of missing out. It's one thing that helps is the fear of realizing the fear of missing on with memories that I can remember, right?

Yeah. I mean, even on that one there, though, like when you look, back, like my experience is like, dude, I wasn't really, it would have been a lot better for me to miss out on the stuff I was doing. So like, I think when I peeled back to layers, it was like, what was I really missing out on? Maybe the romanticizing of how things once were, you know, maybe like in the beginning where like alcohol did check boxes and drugs did check boxes until it crept into every area of my life. Like maybe that I could picture myself. missing out on but I think like in the in the mess of it all it was like the joy and everything

too was just gone and you shared that too man yeah no I was I was scared of losing friends I was scared of I was scared of losing joy right because the only way I found joy was with a substance and I'm scared of losing friends but I realized when I got sober I didn't lose any friends I mean I might have lost the wrong friends but I found the friends wanted to be around me more because I was sober because they didn't have to babysit me because I wasn't slurring my words after hanging out with them for an hour right because I wasn't I was I was me and I was there um but when I say fear of missing out I meant the fear of missing out on sober memories because you know you create a lot of the times I would

get drunk I would start to black out I started black and I was super easy so I didn't remember the time. So now it's like, you know, I could go back to drinking and making sure I'm hanging out with my buddies and having that drink and that fun night. But if I have that fun night, what am I going to miss out on? Like, I'm going to miss out on waking up with my kids, maybe coaching my kid in hockey, right? You know, being there with my family. So now there's that, that, um, true missing out. If I go back to that lifestyle, I'm going to miss this lifestyle. This lifestyle is way more important than that lifestyle. I think the only thing that kind of comes up with my quit drinking is like I still have a little bit of social anxiety and hanging out with people.

But I mean, that's just, I also have ADHD. So I can sometimes butterfly in conversations. Yeah. And that's what I hear a lot of people share is like all of the, you know, some of these things about like how are we going to fit in. Some people are worried about two sporting events, concerts. Maybe it's weddings or maybe it's New Year's of the holidays. like how are we going to navigate all of these types of things and i mean the reality is we do and it's different you know i've picked up on in the last couple of years things are different right

because when people are drinking they kind of get amped up right they kind they get that dopamine when you're sober you're you're on more of a level playing field doesn't mean you don't get the dopamine but there's not the highs and the lows of say somebody would drinking so navigating those sort of things do become different, but you also remember to play the tape forward of like, okay, if I am, get into drinking again, well, then like I'm losing out on my mornings. Like there's just so much to lose on the other side of things. After, you know, seven years you mentioned coming up on this year, I mean, what do you take away from, you know, from all of that?

What have you learned about yourself? Well, you start to learn how strong you actually are because it isn't easy to come. out of addiction. And if you do lose people when you come out of it, they're the right people to lose, man. Like if you want to quit drinking and people don't want to be around you, then those aren't your people. So you start to learn more about yourself and that the people that stick around you, they see the best qualities in you. And then you can start to see that what qualities those see because when you're in active addiction, it's hard to see your qualities, right? It's hard to see the good in you because that's why we're using. And so in last seven years, I realized that, you know,

I can be happy without a substance, how strong I am for actually getting out of it, how successful I can be without it. I think the biggest thing is is that I can love me without being drunk. I am a good person. And I don't need to change my mindset with a substance to be confident, to stand out,

to be funny to hang out with people, right? I think that's, you know, I, you can love you for you now. Yeah. Was that hard, was that a hard place for you to get to? Oh, man. Yeah, because, you know, when you're in active addiction, you're, you're messing up a lot. You're saying dumb things. You're making bad decisions.

And, you know, there's a lot of acceptance and forgiveness that you're going to have to go through. And, you know, when you come out of it, you're probably, going to be your your own worst critic people are usually more forgiving than you would think but the thing is is you got to start you got to get in here and you got to forgive you and that was one of the hardest things to do because you know my first year that I quit I didn't celebrate my one year sobriety right and I said it at a meeting

that one time I'm like yeah I wasn't proud of myself I'm like okay good Justin good for you yet you quit a substance that was tearing you and your family apart so good for you but I'm like, I celebrate it more than my actual birthday. Well, just because I'm younger, my sobriety birthday. Yeah, but I recognize, man, I was an act of addiction for 16 years. I'm lucky to be here. I've crashed cars.

I pushed, I wasn't wearing a seatbelt, pushed a power pole into the front seat of my car. I got in car accidents, you know, used substances, hung out the wrong people. I'm lucky I never got a bad bag, like my cousin and my, best friend who overdose like I'm lucky lucky to be here and so you know you got to look at all those things and you know just take into perspective where your life was and to where it is now then so acknowledge your sobriety you know what if it's your third day heck yeah I remember I couldn't go it was basically when I'm bartending it's every single day I was drinking then when I got older it was every weekend and every time like I started I literally couldn't stop because I blacked out

And I would become coherent, become coherent, three, four days later. So acknowledge your days. Be proud of those days. For some of us, it's an everyday thing. Right. So acknowledge where you did. Acknowledge your wins. And I was in a counseling appointment and he's like, Justin, what have you accomplished?

Or what have you done? And I started talking about my wins and my failures. And he's like, Justin, do you realize what you're doing right now? I'm like, what? He's like, you're talking about your wins. and your failures in the same tone. And I was like, oh man, right? Because we can be so hard on ourselves.

So when you get those three days, you know, scream those days out. Celebrate those three days. Celebrate that week if you have to. If that noise people, who cares? It's not about them. It's about you. But you've got to celebrate your wins

a lot more happier than your losses. I don't use the same tone. And I was describing it. And I didn't realize that he told me that. But another one of the things that he told me that really helped me is like, Justin, you know, there's a gratitude list. But what's your accomplishment list? Is it, see your wins? Okay, now let's start an accomplishment list.

Whenever you failed down, remember what you accomplished along the way. Yeah. Right? And so. Yeah. That's, that's, yeah. And those are good, all good things. That's what I was going to wrap things up with asking you is how else do you identify progress other than the days?

with my sobriety yeah the way my kid can look at me and I'm fortunate you know I quit when he was so probably three so he didn't really see me as an alcoholic or drug user

but he can look at me and trust me and don't get you wrong I still make I still get depressed and I still get sad and I still get irritable 100% but he can see a sober dad and my wife can see a silver husband.

And, you know, that's probably one of one of my biggest helps. Yeah. Because I think that's important too to, especially if you're in that, if you're on that hamster wheel of back and forth, back and forth, like it's good to identify progress you're making. If it's not consecutive days, what in your life are you making progress with outside of it? It could be relationships. It could be careers, goals, passions.

how do we feel about ourselves? Like how do we, what do we think about ourselves when we look in the mirror, right? Like how is that sort of stuff? Is our gratitude? Are we improving our gratitude? Our awareness, our integrity.

Are we doing the right thing when nobody's watching? You know, that's what one of my earliest mentors said. Just do the right thing. I mean, your integrity, everything is truly what you do when nobody's watching. I mean, when you have an audience, that's one thing, do the right thing. but really pay attention to,

is what he said to me, really pay attention to what you do when nobody's watching. You know, the little things, don't let those slide because the little things become bigger things.

But thank you, Justin, so much for jumping on, man. I always love connecting with you, man, and just to see your story and your growth

and be friends and everything like that. Anything you want to finish up with, I know you did your TED Talk recently too, man, job. I even get anxious seeing you up there, dude. Well, thanks, man. Yeah, that was an experience and a half. You know, I was something I wanted to do. I remember sitting in the mill HR room. And when I said, hey, you know what, I'm going to leave this place. The lady's like,

they phoned me, got me back to do a talk at their mill and they said, Justin, you need to do a TED talk. And I was like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to do it. And I did it. And I was so freaking nervous up there, man. My right leg was twitching. And if you watch it, like, that was something I wanted to do. And normally, if you mess up a line, they want you to stop, right? And then you go again and then they can edit it. So there's a perfect TED talk. But I've repeated the line. And if you watch it, I would love your support. If you could go and check it out, leave a comment. If you like it, I mean, if you don't like it, sure, you can leave a comment too. But I mess up, right? And you can see the point.

in the video where I smile and I'm like, oh man, I messed up and like as I'm speaking, I'm thinking, Justin, you got two, you got two options again. You can keep going or you can stop. So I called myself out and then I wove it into my speech and I kept going. And that's what I wanted, I wanted everyone to know that I'm the guy with the imperfect TED Talk. Like, it's okay to mess up. You're human. So keep going. But another thing is, if you would like to buy a copy of my book, I'm leaving it for the rest of this week on. The Kindle edition is 99 cents,

and the paperback is 1495 on Amazon. If you would like to get a copy of my book, it's called Chasing Shadows, Fighting the Monster Within. Also, if you want to tell me a bit about your story, email me, Justin atjohn.com. Love to hear it, love to read, love any feedback I can get, and just love to see where you are, where you were, where you're going. And here's some of your big wins.

Yeah, beautiful, man. Yeah, check it out, chasing shadows. You got it in the background there. Beautiful, dude. Thank you so much, as always. Hey, man, it's always great to see you. One day we're going to get that Carolina Hurricanes hat switch to Montreal Canadians. So incredible to sit down with these three incredible humans to have updates and hear their experience.

in this whole thing and how things really change. It was interesting. I was thinking in 15 years of doing this and a couple years now of doing the podcast, I've never had anybody say that they regret walking away, that they regret getting sober, that over time that their life hasn't improved in so many ways, and nothing happens overnight. It takes time.

But if you keep at it, things will change. They really do. And these are great examples of it. So thank you as always for listening and I'll see you on the next one.