Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Jenn Kautsch AKA @sobersis was stuck in the ”grey area” of the drinking spectrum for years. This is how she was able to break out and live a sober minded life.

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

At 32 years old, at a networking happy hour, Jenn Kautsch experienced the escape from self that alcohol could provide and the wheels would begin turning.  Jenn never hit what some may consider rock bottom like we see in the Hollywood movies, but she knew something was not right when it came to her relationship with alcohol. Jenn felt stuck in the  “grey area” on the drinking spectrum and made a choice to become more sober minded. This is her story on the sober motivation podcast.  Jenn Kautsch is also the founder and creator of the SoberSis. Learn more below and check out Jenn's new book here! Follow Jenn on Instagram 🤗 Donate to help cover costs of the Podcast Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram Check out the SoberBuddy App Check out Palm Beach Recovery More information on SoberLink    

Welcome back to season two of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. At 32 years old at a networking happy hour, Jen Couch experienced the escape from self that alcohol could provide, and the wheels would begin turning. Jen never hit what some may consider a rock bottom. like we see in the Hollywood movies, but she knew something was not right

when it came to her relationship with alcohol. Jen felt stuck in the gray area on the drinking spectrum and made a choice to become more sober-minded. This is her story on the Sober Motivation podcast. The Sober Buddy app. This community is one of the most supportive I've ever seen. Starting with the meeting hosts who lead with support, kindness, and understanding, when someone follows the community rallies to help support and encourage.

People from all different countries who show up as strangers leave as friends. It is a true example of community and connection. What makes sober buddies special is everyone is working on the same mission to get another day sober so we can live our best lives and to provide a safe place so no one feels they have to do it alone. Check out the app today or head over to your sober buddy. and come and join us for some of our live support groups. It's hard to find the motivation to get sober when you're in the trenches of addiction.

It's easy to say I'll stop tomorrow or I'll cut back tonight. What's harder is putting action behind those words. That's why I've teamed up with Soberlink. Soberlink's remote alcohol monitoring system was specifically designed to help in your recovery, not just some breathalyzer you buy at the store. Small enough to fit in your pocket and discreet enough to use in public. Soberlink devices combine facial recognition, tamper detection, and real-time results so friends and family know instantly that you're sober and working towards your recovery goals. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device.

Are you a loved one struggling with alcoholism or substance use disorder? Palm Beach Recovery Centers can help. Their inpatient medical detox and residential facility provides personalized treatment, to help you get back on track. Their experienced staff is here to support you every step of the way. For more information, visit their website, palm beach recovery centers.com. Hey, how's it going, everyone? Look, this is an incredible story that I really think you're going to enjoy.

I think there's a lot of people, a lot more than we realize that are going to really relate to Jen's story about where she was and her relationship with alcohol. So let me know what you think of this episode. Send me a message on Instagram at Sober Motivation. And let's get to the episode. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got my friend Jen Couch with us. Jen, how are you?

I'm great, Brad. How are you this morning? I'm good. I'm glad we jump on here to do this. Why don't you start us off with what was it like for you growing up? Oh, well, what a great place to start. You know, it was five decades ago that I'd begin. Gann life on this planet. And, you know, I will have to tell you. And I think for your listeners,

it's good to hear a variety of different stories because we all come from such different backgrounds. And at the end of the day, alcohol is alcohol. And it's going to affect us all in different ways, but it's the same in a lot of ways. And so for me, though, growing up is a fairly unlikely kind of boring, if you will. I don't think anybody's story is boring because I think there's a lot of people out there that can identify with growing up in a home that I didn't have parents that drink. I actually grew up in a home where alcohol was not a thing, not a big deal. In fact, it wasn't a big deal either way. My parents, both, especially on my mom's side, did have a bit of a cautionary tale with her parents. So I was the beneficiary of having parents that had parents

who had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. my parents chose, no, we're not going to go that route. And it became a home where, again, alcohol was just not present. In fact, if anything, it just, it really wasn't talked about that much. And so I grew up in a home that was, I have to say, and the older I've gotten, the more I do realize what a blessing it is to grow up in a home that was really loving and really supportive and imperfect in many ways, for sure. Yeah, that's what it was like for me growing up. I was the oldest kiddo in my family and the oldest of all the grandkids. So I was kind of like the guinea pig that, you know, Jen did everything first. Let's see how that goes. I really had a pretty protected,

blissful little childhood in my West Texas small town. Yeah, wow, I love that. That's good that you were able to get the benefit from maybe past experiences, right, decisions that your folks were making. I can relate to that too. I mean, it's not that my folks didn't drink alcohol, but growing up, I never, ever really remember them drinking at all. So. Yeah. What was school and stuff like for your relationships? Everything like that was pretty good for you? You know, it was in high school and in college. I don't know about you, Brad, but I kind of came into my own towards the end of high school.

I started figuring out that, hey, wait a minute, people that are class president or cheerleaders or all the things that I wasn't, the only difference between me and them was that they tried out, like they actually just tried. And I was like, well, wait a minute, I can try too. And so when I got to college, I got very involved in the Greek system at my school. I went to Texas Tech in good old Lubbock, Texas. Any tech fans out there? And so for me, I kind of came alive in college. And it was very interesting being a sorority girl.

I was kind of the opposite of that. In high school, I really kind of made fun of sorority girls. I thought, well, they're just buying their friends and like partiers and like these surface shallow people. I just didn't understand that there were. leadership opportunities in a way to really connect with other people in a smaller community. So it was really cool because I kind of dove in and I treated college like I wished I would have treated high school. Like try out for, man, go for it. And so I was a little social butterfly. And it's very interesting during that time. Obviously, Texas Tech, state school,

party school. I mean, this is, you know, late 80s, early 90s. And the party scene was huge at my school. But I think, again, there was enough around me to see and learn from. I'm kind of one of those. I don't always have to do everything to learn from it. I can just watch other people. And so not in a judgmental way, but in a way that was like, whoa, we're at a frat house. Girls are falling down and stumbling all around and, you know, we're holding hair back in the bathroom. I don't think I want to be that out of control.

So for me, again, not a drinker yet, not a drinker all through college at. in a very hearty atmosphere because I think it just, again, dating myself. Yeah, this is pre-Ur, pre-cell phones. And honestly, it kind of just looked out of control and kind of made me more fearful to drink of this elixir that was causing people to kind of go out of their minds. And so, again, not drinking in college either. In fact, I didn't even really drink in my 20s. Wow.

So it's kind of been likely that I would be, AK. a sober sis now. Yeah, I'm just trying to wonder, you know, when that comes about. So you make it through college, you make it through your 20s. I mean, did you have interactions with people that were just trying to? Or do you feel like you had a solid foundation and a purpose maybe that you just weren't interested in all those activities? Yeah, I think that's what it was, Brad. I mean, I'm a woman of fake.

I have a, you know, just an abiding relationship with God that, again, has grown over the years. but I think also just being in relationship with God and then also meeting my husband in college, he was a non-drinker. We really met as social non-drinkers. So it made sense to me that a lot of our friends didn't drink either. So it felt normal. It aligned with, again, not from a religious role's legalistic perspective, but more in a, hey, I don't need this.

It's freedom to not be bound to anything to change or alter my moods or, go through difficult things. It just didn't occur to me that that would be a tool because I had other tools that I was using, basically. I had the tool of my faith. I had the tool of a social network that was full of non-drinkers. I had the blessing and the tool of a solid foundation. So getting married in my 20s, having kids in my 20s, really, I was building a life, building a family, building a business with my husband. It was just a decade of building, building, building. And drinking was certainly there, but not something that had become an activity for my husband or I. So it was kind of a non-issue in all of my 20s.

Well, that's incredible. It sounds like they were busy 20s, kids, family. We were cranking it out. Kids and business. Yeah. And were you in Texas this whole time? Have you always been in Texas? Yeah.

I'm a Texas girl through and through. Yeah. Forever in Texas? Got to be right. Forever in Texas. It'd be hard to make me leave at this point. So what about after this? I have kids and your husband and you are doing this incredible stuff.

What happens next? Okay, so now tee it up for the 30s. Now the 30s decade comes into play. And my husband and I owned a retail store here in Fort Worth. And that's what we did in our 20s. So we were building that business. But by our young 30s, retail had gotten much more difficult. This was kind of on the onset of, again, dating myself, the internet, all the dot-coms, all the big websites that were kind of snuffing out, the ma-and-paw, brick and mortar stores like ours.

What we found was there was a lot of financial strain in our marriage and in our home because we owned our own business. It was hemorrhaging, basically. It was just suffering. And so what do you do, you know, when your business is suffering? You tend to throw more money at it and just think, well, more location. more inventory, more and more. So while we were trying to figure out entrepreneurship there, I thought, well, I have a marketing degree.

I am a business-minded person. I can go to work and join one of these home-based businesses where I can be at home with my kids during the day, kind of work while they're in school, but, you know, be around, and then I can work in the evenings. And so that's exactly what I did. I was like, Jen, to save the day, I'm going to partner with my husband,

we're going to pull us out of all this debt that we're accruing. But again, the heat of life was really, starting to turn up for me. At that point, you know, I've been married almost a decade, got the kids on the ground, the heat of life is turning up. And so that's what I did is I started putting all this pressure on my plate to perform, help it out, and cue in drinking. This is where the drinking enters the Jen story. So I was at a networking event. Like many people out there can relate to this. You're at a networking happy hour. It's stressful. You're tired. You're overwhelmed. It's all kicking up. And my friend asked me, I was probably 32 at this time, 32, 33. She goes, Jen, hey, come to the bar with us. Why don't you get a

drink with us? Why don't you get a drink with us? Like, get a drink, like a real drink. Like, quit with your Dr. Peppers and your sweet tea. Get a drink, you know, and I'm like, actually, Gordon, why don't I? And I went back to my 20-year-old self. I went back to my old self. I went back to my old self rules kind of around drinking. And when I say rules, I guess just the framework I had to make decisions around drinking from my younger days. And my parents kind of inadvertently without saying these out loud, kind of said, you know, don't drink unless you're 21 because that's the law. I'm a rule follower. I'm a law abiding citizen. So I was like, all right, I got it. That's the rules. Not going to drink, tell him 21. Don't drink and drive. Okay. Got that. That was back

when mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving was a huge presence in the world. I hope they still are. But, you know, I was like, got it. Don't drink and drive. And again, being a person of faith, don't drink to get drunk. Okay, got it. Drinking itself is not wrong, but getting drunk is not a good idea. Okay, got it.

Those are kind of like my three mindset rules around drinking. And at 32 years old at a networking happy hour, I could check all those boxes. Well, I'm well over 21. Hello. I didn't even drive myself here, so I'm not worrying about that. I am not drinking to get drunk. I don't even know what drunk really feels like. I just am going to try a drink.

So that was my grit, which is really interesting because it was also pretty naive and pretty limited to the effects of alcohol or whatever of stepping into. Because these were old roles. They were kind of antiquated for me because it wasn't like real-time experience that could apply. So this is all going on subconsciously in my mind. I'm like, check, check, check. Yeah.

Why don't I get a drink? There's absolutely no reason why I wouldn't get a drink. Let me get this to go. And I just remember her going, okay, well, I'll help you order because I don't even know what to order. Like, I don't even know what to say. I don't know all these fancy wine names, like, Habernet, Savignon Blanc. I'm like, I don't even know how to say these words. It's like a new language.

And so she goes, well, we'll start you off with a wine. it's Simphendale. I'm like, okay, well, that looks pink and kind of fruity and kind of harmless. And I have to tell you, Brad, I had that glass of wine delivered to me in a very, again, stressful time, and I didn't realize. I underestimated the amount of anxiety, stress, and pent up angst that I was feeling inside. And I didn't know how much was there until I took that drink. And that's when I realized, oh, all right, this. does that? I thought to myself, again, all subconsciously, but I've really analyzed this. I'm like, where did it shift? It shifted right then and there. Because I had that glass, one glass,

one glass of White Zinfandale. And it was as if all of my anxiety stress, the shoulders that were up in my ears from all the tension, just came down. And I was like, whoa. And not only is this legal. It's actually encouraged, glamorized, and this is almost like what I should be doing. This is what I'm supposed to be doing as a working mom, as an adult. Where have I been? Oh, I get it now. I'm on board the train. I want to do this again and again, and again. So that was my first experience. Of course, I'd had drinks before here and there, a beer there, you know, a Bartles and James. Peach, Snops, there, but it was one and done. And it had never had an emotional or mental connection for me until that time. Yeah. So it seems like it depended on that. It was like the perfect environment

where you were at in your life, right? When you took that. Totally. Felt some relief from where you were at with everything else that was going on. Yeah. So really, that kind of set the trajectory of my 30s in my relationship with alcohol. I literally kind of made it a point to be able to catch up to my peers, to my other 30-year-old working mom friends, or just other people that had been drinking at that point for a solid decade. It's a little bit late to the party, but I caught up. I caught up because I didn't have a lot of boundaries at first. I didn't really know my limits. It's pretty embarrassing. I'll have to be honest and tell you, you know, as a 35-year-old mom, still learning my limits on a date night with my husband, like, whoa, whoa, girl, you can't

drink that much, that fast, or like, you really do have to do this a certain way where you can't go in on an empty stomach or, you know, all the things. So all the things that people had learned at the silly frat parties, the hard way, I also had to learn the hard way in my 30s as a mom. And it was a lot of shame for me. It was a lot of frustration because I wanted to drink like everybody else. And I was learning how to do that, how to pace myself, how to, it was weird. It's a weird thing to say that in my 30s, I had to learn how to drink alcohol, what seemed like properly. And I did. I did learn that.

I started to kind of find my sweet spot, so to speak, where I could feel the buzz, but it wouldn't make the room spin. And so that was my goal. But within that came, like I said, a lot of shame, some regret and confusion for me. Like, wait, other people aren't talking about the room spinning or hangovers or shame or guilt around this. they're just doing the rosé all day t-shirts and the wine memes and we're all joking about it like it's always fun. And so I kept a lot of my struggle inward during that decade, I would say.

When did you come to that understanding that maybe your experience with alcohol was different than maybe other people's? Yeah, because nobody was really talking about it, I definitely had that emotional connection. like if I want relief, that is my tool to get it. And of course, I didn't understand any of the science yet about alcohol and anxiety. I didn't realize that I was literally pouring gasoline on a fire of anxiety. I thought I was doing myself a favor. I thought that I was, you know, unwinding. And so it really wasn't until much later on that I realized how many other women also were dealing with this kind of

a detox to retox loop. That's what I call it. I was like super duper mindful and healthy by day, like to a tea, where I was waking up and having, you know, my prayer and Bible reading and meditation time, getting my workout in, juicing, my green juice at lunch, buying all organic, doing like major efforts to go into hot yoga, sweating it out, and doing all these things detoxifying by day and mindful by day, super responsible by day all day. And then five o'clock came. And it was like, okay, here it is. Here is my time, my reward for doing all of that mindful work or that sacrifice for my family to, you know, do all the things that moms do. Yeah, so I didn't realize that actually I wasn't that uncommon, but I had told myself this story that surely I was the only one that

drink so late in life. I was the only one that was kind of suffering through this learning curve. And then I was the only one that even felt these shameful feelings. And yeah, so all really until my mid-40s, I did fill a low. Yeah, with the struggle of those thoughts you just mentioned. When did you first pick up on that, though? Because like, did it take some time after you had that first drink and then things kind of progressed? Like, was it right away that you're like, I'm not feeling good about this? or did it take? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question.

It really, I was about 38 years old. So I'd been drinking, buying the groupons for my husband and I to go to beer tastings and wineries and making it almost like an activity. Like, hey, let's get together. Let's barbecue and get a six pack. Like, that's what we do. And so at that point, about five or six years in, that's when I was like, you know what, this is too big in my life.

It has not always been this way. So I have a real contrast of like, wait a minute, I know life without alcohol for a pretty, pretty decent amount of time as an adult. This is not aligning with me. I don't like how enslaved I feel to that wine o'clock or to that association with. Fun equals drinking. Relaxing equals drinking. It had not always been that way.

So ironically, at 38 years old, I came to my husband, I said, babe, would you take a break from drinking with me? because I really feel like as a couple, and for me, for sure, I mean, we're starting to buy the tequila and putting it, you know, in the upper shelf of our pantry so that we can make margaritas at home and our kids go to bed. I was like, whoa, Nellie, this is not us. This is not the kind of parent I want to be because I didn't grow up that way. I feel like I'm living two lives. I felt that double life thing going on. And he said, sure, let's take a year off together. Fortunately, at that time, he wasn't. So, entrenched, I guess you could say, in the consistency of his drinking relationship. And so we did that, Brad. We took a whole year off of drinking my 38 to 39. And I just told a group of women this.

I was sober during that time that I wasn't sober-minded. And that's a big differentiation for me. And that's why in the language I use, I talk so much about being sober-minded, about being awake, alert and present in our own lives because I didn't drink alcohol for a whole year that I was not sober. I mean, I was sober, but not sober-minded because I didn't really learn anything. I didn't learn anything about myself. I wasn't really curious about why I was drinking. I didn't really learn about alcohol during that time. I had zero community. It was just my husband and I kind of white-knuckling it. And again, what's so amazing is during that year kind of got back what I had before drinking, which was great night's sleep, a lot of energy. I lost the 15 pounds. I couldn't

seem to work off in my workouts. All the things on the surface that I wanted, I got. But it's like I just changed on the outside, not the inside. So after a year of no drinking, all the birthdays, the anniversaries, the vacations, the beach, everything, I was like, well, there we go. We did it. Check, check. Going back to the boxes, going back to checking boxes. And I thought, well, clearly I don't really had that big of a problem without alcohol. I just walked away. I just left it for a year without really any support. So there you go. So what did I do to celebrate a year of no drinking? I celebrated with drinking. We celebrated with drinking. We went back to drinking together as a couple for me for sure. And I went back to this management lifestyle of moderation. I went back to

managing my drinking, which I was able to do for quite some time, you know, pouring the four ounces of wine and a measuring glass. So I was staying within the limits. That was exhausting, though, and wearisome. So now comes the next decade. Now we've got the 40s because I'm in the 50s now. So. Before we jump forward, I think you brought up a really good point there about that one

year, your experience is that you did a lot of external work. You were feeling better. Right. But you didn't do the internal work. And what I've figured out, my conclusion here, a lot of people in this stage, right, we think that the alcohol is the problem. And that if we just cut out the alcohol, of course, life will get better. Some things are going to improve.

You mentioned a lot of benefits and things. But it's like that other work to kind of find out, like, why are we using this substance? What's its purpose in our life? Like, what is it doing for? Because it has to be doing something. At least I believe in the beginning, it's going to be solving some problem. And for me personally, it was great. It wasn't always a dumpster fire.

It was great. I was able to go to parties. And for somebody like me who didn't communicate with people. I was able to talk to girls. I was able to make friends. I was able to get into social situations that otherwise wouldn't not have been available. So it definitely did a lot of stuff. And then it got carried away down the road. But like I think that's something, you know, when I look back, hindsight's always 20-20. When I look back, it was serving a lot of different purposes in my life. And then with sobriety, with putting it down, then you have to kind of find out what those are and then

start to find more healthier ways. But I thought that was a great. point to bring up because I see so many people, and I'm sure you have too, where it's like to give up the alcohol and things don't get better in their life. They're wondering a lot of different things, but one of them is like, I may as well just drink because my life, I'm still feeling X, Y, and Z about it. So I just love that you really brought that up as a great example of there's more work to be done. Oh my gosh. Exactly. I'm so tracking with you. Yes, more work has to be done. And at that point, I didn't realize, I did think alcohol was the problem. And really, it wasn't the problem. It was just a poor solution to the problems that I had inside, which was a lot of anxiety during the years of

raising my teenagers, which really for me, 40 to 45, my oldest, my daughter's 13 to 18 chunk of life. And I got to tell you, Brad, those were some challenging years. She would agree if you're listening out there. She's in her 20s now, so we're good to go. But boy, I tell you what, those were years that were really full of a lot of fear for me, a lot of rejection. I wasn't prepared as a parent, as a mom for the rejection that I would feel from these little kids that loved me and were always cuddly and thought I was awesome to get out of my face. I hate you, but she didn't really hate me. But at the moment, it really still hurt. And so I was kind of, that's what I was doing, was really medicating a lot of those feelings or just trying to outperform them with perfectionism.

performance, high performance, high functioning during the day and then had this switch that flipped during the evening. And that's exactly right. I was outsourcing a lot of my resilience and ability to do hard things to, I'm just going to have to put on a smile and take the hit. And then I'll release that later with my Veno, with my little line o'clock. And all that did was push me further into the feeling of, I can't handle this. I can't do hard things, which we know is not true because, again, I really went through some hard things in my 20s without going into those details that were really challenging and drinking was, I didn't outsource resilience. Instead, I had it. And then I started questioning it, the more I was using any external substance

to change my ability to do hard things. So, yeah, so in my 40s, I'd done the management thing. And kind of like you, I'm glad that you just said what you did. Wasn't a dumpster fire. In fact, if anything, that's Part of what kept me stuck for so long is I kind of had the 80-20 rule running, where 80% of the time my drinking literally looked like everyone else, I had zero negative consequences, except for the mental and emotional. Now that 20% of the time, whoop, yep, did have one too many, glassy-eyed. My kids are like, what's up, mom? I'm like, sorry the next day. Those were happening, but those were few and far between. That wasn't the rule for me. So it was easy to ask. the wrong question, like, is it bad enough? Every time I asked myself, is it bad enough? I looked

around and there was always somebody who had fallen into the pitcher plant, if you will, a little bit deeper than I had. In fact, a lot deeper than I had. So I justified my drinking because it was semi milder than most people who, quote, had a problem with alcohol. So that really kept me limited instead of asking, well, is it good enough? Is this right for me? Because when I started asking that question, it was a big flat out. No, this is not working. But I had to start asking better questions to myself instead of the wrong one. Yeah. I like how you brought that up too about the consequences, right? Because, Jen, this story you're sharing, there's lots and lots of people. I don't know the number, but there's lots and lots of people that share this journey, right,

of being stuck. And I love that you brought up the part about the external consequences, Because some people are going to base what, am I an alcoholic? Do I have a problem with drinking alcohol? They're going to base it off impaired driving. They're going to base it off losing their job. They're going to base it off of so many different external consequences that we see in the Hollywood movies. But the reality of this thing is that the consequences are what you feel internally.

And when you start to feel those, that's probably a red flag that not drinking could improve your life. So I'm so glad you brought that up to where you weren't feeling those external things, but internally, there was a struggle going up. A huge struggle. And it lasted, Brad, for, well, you know, again, going back to my 30s, I already felt the red flag by needing to take that break for a year. So I already knew that its importance in my life.

Its value to me was too high. That was the issue. Its value was too high. And I didn't like feeling that I needed a drink, even once to cope, feel better or get that relief. And what I really longed for during those years and beyond was rest. I needed rest for my soul. I needed rest for my mind.

A lot of times I just needed rest for my body. Instead, I was just taking these little hits of relief that felt so good in the time that it's tricking me that that is what I needed. But it was so short-lived. And then I would stop. I would cut myself off no more until tomorrow or no more until the weekend or no more until next month when I get done with my whole 30 challenge. And I could do that.

Because I could do that, it kind of kept me in this crazy loop because I could just do like a month or two. Go on without it and then be like, okay, let's bring it back in slowly. You know, and then it's the vicious trap. Yeah. No, I mean, that must have been a very confusing spot to be for you. It was. I think this whole concept of gray area drinking being in the middle. if you will, of kind of the drinking spectrum, you know, you've got a full drinking spectrum out there.

And I'd never heard that before. I thought it was all black and white, all or nothing. Either you were kind of a quote now, you know, Normie or somebody who could just drink and totally just once a year at a wedding, you kind of have the toast and you couldn't care less. Like, that's like a one. On a scale of one to ten, that's like way down there. Like, you really don't care. It has almost no value to you. But if you're drinking at all, you're on the spectrum. I would really like to say, say, you know, if you're drinking alcohol, you're on the drinking spectrum. Where are you? In my opinion, and I think you would agree, it's a one-way highway. It's head in one way. It's typically people don't go from a 10 to a 1. They go from a 1 to a 10. It's progressive. It takes time. And so,

that was me. You know, I kind of started off. I entered in as the one. I'm not really used to this. I don't really know. And then I kind of climbed up to that middle ground. And then I just kind of hovered there, kind of hovered in the middle. And being in that lukewarm place, was worse than just, I mean, if you're going to have a cup of coffee, gosh, get it on ice or have it hot. Don't have a lukewarm cup of coffee. That's how my life felt. You know, my life felt like just a cup of coffee that had been sitting around for three hours that didn't even taste good at all. Because it wasn't hot. It wasn't cold. I wasn't enjoying the benefits of being completely free from alcohol. And I wasn't at this end of the line where I was like, I need rehab, I need detox, I need intervention. I need, it was just the snowman's land. And so for me, that was very lonely and very isolating because I thought, well, gosh, no one's going to understand.

Poor Jen, she just goes to Girls Night Out and has two glasses of wine and struggles with that. Would someone further down the spectrum understand how that feels? Can they remember what that feels like? Of course, they do now that I know. But I just thought, well, I can't relate with either way. I don't know where to go. And that's why I'm so passionate about creating a space for a great area drinker. because I think that oftentimes the resources along the drinking spectrum, you know,

it's just good to kind of match resources and language as you go because some things further down the spectrum just didn't resonate with me yet. And again, I didn't want to have to go further down the drinking highway to get the support I needed to think, well, it's got to get worse before it can get better. That was my mentality for a while. Well, it's not that bad. So I guess I just, you know, I either wait till it gets worse to get it. more support or I figure this out.

No, yeah, everything you just said is I'm following that to a T. Do you feel that it took you great restraint to stay in that middle and not keep going down? Like I remember times in my life where I was just really upset that I just couldn't keep going, but I tried to remember about these certain things I have going for me and they kind of kept me like there instead of like floating down all the way to like this being like, bang, this is a huge problem. Did you have that? What kind of stuff like came up? Like, you know, you said you would measure stuff. And I'm guessing that would be one of the things. But like that in itself, the only reason I asked that is because that's an exhausting place to be. Very exhausting. Tell us about that. Oh, my gosh. That is the word. Yeah. That mental tugabore. It was like literally walking around the ping pong match in my mind constantly chatter, chatter, chatter, with all the management of drinking. And it would start for me. me, I really encourage women that I work with to do this. Just start writing it down. Just even if you're still drinking and you're not ready yet to stop drinking, even reading mindfulness and

awareness in, it was usually around 3 o'clock in the afternoon, kind of that low blood sugar, kind of the bonk that happens. That's when I would start to shift and all the rule and all the good intentions started to get pressured, impressed. And then because of the society we live in, being so alcohol-centric and so pushed, especially towards moms and women. I mean, I feel like it's pushed for everybody, but about 15, 20 years ago, they really did up the marketing campaigns to really go for women with the rosé all day, I already mentioned, and all the skinny margarita drinks and all the all the labeling that's like mommy's timeout. This whole culture shift where it was like, oh, this is what you do, really made it difficult.

I mean, I would walk in my local target, my local grocery store just to get milk and bread. And before I know it, I'm seeing Prosecco by the blueberries. I see the cab by the meat. I'm not even by the popcorn chips and beer yet. And so I would just tell myself, no, no, no, no, no. And when we're telling our brain, no, don't drink, no drink, don't drink, don't drink. All we hear is drink. So by the time I got to the checkout, the cash wrap, I was like, whatever.

I'm just going to get a bottle and I'm just going to have a. glass while I'm cooking dinner. That was the progression. If I were doing, you know, my fitness pal or one of the apps out there that would help me count calories, I was like, you know, yo, I'll just have a salad and factor in the 125 calorie per glass. And I'm going to section off 300 calories for drinking today. I mean, it was that kind of management where I could kind of feel like I had my cake and eat it too. But it was never really freedom. All of my management was all enslavement to this thing that had a grip on me, even though I felt like I had this pseudo-control of it, it 100% had control of me. Because there were times I was managing it, I was like, I don't

even really want to drink this tonight. It's kind of what I do. Oh, I don't know. We've got some conflict that could spar up. We've got, you know, laborious homework assignments for the next three hours. I think I'm going to just do it anyway. I want the effect. I'm going to factor it in my fitness pal. I'm going to get those 300 or 400 calories in there. And it was that methodical for me. It was that planned out. Wow. Yeah, that takes a lot of work. I'm curious, when did everything change? Yeah, let's get me out of this detox, retox loop. It's tiring, just talking about it. Unless it's kind of like, oh, man, how long can that go on? Well, for me, it went on for years and years. I was a yo-yo drinker. Instead of being a yo-yo-digator, I was a yo-yo drinker.

And it was totally exhausting. And my friends never knew, like, are you on the wagon? Are you off the wagon? I was like, I don't even know the wagon analogy for sure that I'm not drinking right now, but I really want to. So I'll drink with y'all next. That was me. So right before I turned 46, actually, my daughter had just graduated high school.

She was about to make a major move in her next phase of life. And she was transitioning. This is when I was really starting to get ready for change again. Kind of like when I was 38. I was really ready for a change. It wasn't working for me anymore. It was very tiring and not getting me anywhere. I still was lugging around the extra weight mentally, physically, emotionally for all the effort that I was pouring into this.

It wasn't working. I started listening to podcast. I started catching wind, if you will, of this new language that was just starting to emerge. This was in 2017, the language of being sober, curious. I'd never heard that before. know you could be sober curious. I didn't know you could be curious at all about your relationship with drinking. I thought you had to wear a label the minute you wanted to talk about drinking. And that, again, felt limiting to me because I wasn't sure I wanted to wear a label or then I needed

to wear a label or that that would serve me. So this whole concept of sober, curious and gray area drinking, even that term I had not heard before. So for me, hearing new language brought me into this whole new realm of coaches, podcasts, books. And that's what I did in 2017. I totally dove in to what has now become really the sober community, which again, I had no idea existed. And I stepped into that in just hearing the new language and the new science and the practical tools with someone using words like wine o'clock, alcohol-free lifestyle. I was like, whoa, like a gluten-free lifestyle, like a vegan. Like, oh, okay, now I understand an alcohol-free lifestyle, maybe even sober for the health of it, kind of thinking, oh, okay, it opened the door for me to explore. And that's what changed my relationship with alcohol the most was the space and freedom to explore in this new language, if that makes sense. So that was spring of 2017. And quite honestly, I was at kind of a high point with my drinking. I was not at a low point when I was able to kind of hear these words, I was actually in a good management spot at that time. So

it's interesting because I already knew that just because I was at a high point in my drinking, then a low point would come. I knew it was just an illusion that I had control. No, yeah, it sounds like with the terms and with that maybe different approach, different language, that you were able to connect that with your story, that it was like, hey, maybe you did. Yeah, it kind of met me where I was instead of me having to go further down the drinking spectrum or wear label, say never drinking again just by being curious, it just kind of met me there. It met me in a space where I thought, well, I don't have to quit drinking forever. I could take a break. That concept like with other people where that was going to be okay. Like really? I can't. Okay. So that was huge

for me. Oh, I love that. What happens next? Yeah. So have people really the year of 2017, Brad, was a unique year for me. It was a year with a lot of that's, That's when I started digging in to the deeper growth. That's when I started really going, oh, man, I don't want to just do behavior modification. I know I can do that, and that's exhausting. It doesn't get me anywhere. So that's when I kind of popped the hood. Pop the hood in my own life, pulled over, off the drinking highway, popped the hood, looked in there.

And that's when I can see, oh, alcohol is really not the problem. I do have some internal places where I'm really stuck or feel really unequipped to handle this level of emotion. I started doing some counseling. I went through a whole leadership year program that gave me a lot of tools during that time. I did several programs, actually, that were more like coaching programs. And it really helped me a lot because I started applying these tools to my everyday life. But I still hadn't found a community yet. I was still kind of a lone ranger. And, you know, again, it dipped in and out of communities, but hadn't really found my people yet. who were kind of the soccer mons, the girl next door, the person who was really in that gray area

drinking detox retox loop. And so it was still a lonely time for me, but I think God was actually preparing me still in the wilderness, if you will, of my own experience to really hunker down and do a lot of these heart changes for the right reasons, which was not for external purposes. And so it was in 2018 that I'd kind of come through something. I could tell, like I have come through something. I didn't have life figured out. I was less than a year alcohol-free at the time that I really feel like I kind of got, I'll call it a God vision. I didn't really see a vision, but it was kind of like a tap on my shoulder. And I really felt direction to be more vocal and start to share my story. Even though it didn't feel that juicy or exciting, it felt that it was relatable. And I thought, Holly,

if I'm Jen next door and I'm dealing with all this, who else is dealing with? this in their mid to late 40s, maybe empty nesters, or maybe a young mom that I could catch on the front end. Who else is possibly dealing with this? And that's when I looked at my husband, Craig, who had gone back to drinking and is still a drinker today, actually. So this wasn't a group thing here at my house. I saw the spouse that drinks. So I looked at my husband Craig and I just said, babe, I wish that more women knew when I knew. I think that they would feel more empowered and more understood if they knew that, you know, someone, quote, like me, who had this upbringing, who didn't drink in their 20s, who kind of got caught in this trap, got out.

And that's when the idea for Soberstice was born, was just how can I share my story with more women and create a community where I can show them my life real time, where I'm not necessarily an influencer or guide that's over there that hasn't figured out. But someone who's literally figuring it out as we go, who's just a little step ahead. And that's really how I've created sober sis, is I'm just ahead of the people that I lead, but I keep them very attached to my real-time experiences. Wow. That's incredible.

The Sobersit. That's how it all started. I'm working through, though, because you mentioned there, I think something that's so powerful, where you feel like your story wasn't, I don't know the exact words you use, but it wasn't a complete mess. So is it valid? Like, that's a tough spot. to be in. And I think that's a spot a lot of people are. And I think everybody's story brings value. They're all different, but a lot of people, and more than we probably will ever know, can relate

to our stories. And I'm so grateful that you started all of this, right? I don't know exactly everything, but I've seen just from afar here that you've been able to really impact a lot of people and you had this big event. As of recent, I saw some highlights from that. How the heck was that? Oh, gosh, Brad. It was so cool. It was last weekend. I don't. know when this will air, but in April of 2023, I hosted a live sober-sys event. In fact, it's kind of the theme of the event was named after my new book that just launched this last month as well, called Look Alive Sis. You can see this. I know your viewer's scan. It's called Look Alive Sis. And I named it that because it's all about looking alive in your own life. Like look alive, look awake,

alert, aware, present in your own life. And that was really the theme of this get together was bringing women together from all over the world who wanted to celebrate sober-minded living, who wanted to celebrate being awake, aware, and present in our own lives. And almost 300 women gathered in a room who had many of which never met each other except for virtually. And they bought that plane ticket and they went to this conference and I got to tell you, and I'm glad you've seen some of my reels and stuff on social media, more is coming. It was epic. It was so epic because they were. There was this like-minded understanding for everyone in the room without judgment,

without fear, labels. It was just like acceptance and like, I see you. I get you. And yeah, I mean, after doing everything virtually for so long, I've only had one other live event in 2019 before, you know, the pandemic and COVID. And so I'd been waiting for three years to do this again. And we're going to do it again next year. It was such a success.

A third of the people there bought tickets for 2024. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. So that was validating. I was like, okay, they do like this. Okay. You know, I'm not, I'm not that bad after all. This is good. I got good feedback at because they just love each other. We love each other. We're a real sisterhood of support that that's kind of the secret sauce of sober sis is the connection piece. No, that's huge. What level of importance do you feel that plays for people to have a community and connection with others on their journey? Oh, it's so huge. And, you know, for everyone listening, mean. You know, that's why it's so cool that there are so many communities now and different avenues. Whatever avenue you choose, I just encourage you to lean into people around you. I don't know if you've seen the TED Talk. I bet you have where I forgot his name. It's kind of hard to say. But he did a

whole thing on Rat Park where connection is the antidote to addiction. It is so good. And I really have seen that to be true. When we're connected, we're less likely to isolate, withdraw, and numb out. because we know that other people see us, they care about us, and are really even counting on us to support them. So it really keeps us going and growing strong. And now that I basically created what I wished I could have found, I've got all these sisters that I really attribute my own success along this journey, having just completed really my big milestone of six years alcohol free. I really attribute it to the sober sis tribe and to having a group of women around me that, yes, I'm one. leading and facilitating their growth, but they're just as important to me as I like to think I am to them. It's a cumulative effort for sure. Yeah. Huge congrats on that too. Big month. Oh, thank you.

April was a big month. Yeah. Alive event with 300 women, a book launch and six years alcohol free. So it was a big April 23. Great way to celebrate though, right? Yeah. It was really good and really humbling, really when I think about, you know, I was just a woman at the kitchen sink on a third glass of wine thinking what in the world am I doing? How did I get here? How did I get here? That's what I want to help other women unpack. How did they get there? And that's how you were thinking then. And now you might be thinking, how did I get here? Right. How did I get here? Exactly. You know, I mean, in a different light, but look, this has been incredible. We've covered a lot of ground and I really appreciate your level of vulnerability. I definitely think there's going to be a

lot of people to connect with this story about being in that middle ground. I mean, I think even if we've went down the road to say number 10, we've all crossed through this city before. That's right. But we've all kind of went through here. For some of us, it could be different. It might have been years of your life for some people, maybe this is weeks or months of their life, that they're sort of in this area. But I had another guest on the podcast and she said something incredible. This elevator only goes down. It doesn't hook up, you know, and I think that's a story that, You know, we hear time and time again. So getting off at any time, I mean, you can push the button.

You can get off. And if you're on the high. It's never too early. It's never too late. Exactly. What would you like to leave everybody with to wrap up your entire message for people in a few minutes? What would it be? Oh, well, good question, Brad.

I love it. What would it be? You know, I would just say, if you're getting back to the analogy being on the sober drinking highway, wanting to pull off and become more sober-minded, become more president of If you're on that highway, if you're on the drinking highway and you feel these little tugs and these little nudges, look at them as like morning lights on your dashboard. You know, your car doesn't have to start fuming and crashing and burning. You can peel off.

And so I just encourage people to listen. Listen to that little voice inside, those little whispers that are like, man, is there something better? Is this it? This is not it if you're stuck in that loop. There is a way off. And so the sooner the better, you know, people, ask me all the time, well, when's a good time to change my relationship with drinking? Now, now, don't wait for a time that your life is smoother because that's never going to happen. And now's

the time. You know, if you're facing a lot of pressure or stress or you're celebrating a lot of things, now's the time to practice with the tools. And so I would say, you know, don't wait, listen to the little voice inside. And look at those warning lights as not you're a bad person, not you're morally flawed, but more like, hey, this is an opportunity to get off the that drinking highway. Wow, beautiful. I love that. I love all of it and I really love the last part. It's changing a perspective on things that this is a beautiful opportunity to grow, to develop, to be more aware, to be more present and to really show up in this world like so much better. It's an opportunity to do that. Some people might live their entire life and maybe don't have

a great opportunity like that. So it's a good time to look within. Like you said before, look on it. Look alive. Look alive in your own life. It's not just about being sober or sobriety. It's a presence. It's about awakeness, alertness. It's about stepping into things, not just stepping away from things. It's both. Yes, beautiful. Thank you so much, Jen. Yeah, totally enjoyed it. Well, there's another incredible episode in the books. I hope everybody is doing well. I hope you're enjoying the episodes. Be sure to leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform if you're enjoying the show. And if you want to support me and what I'm doing here with the podcast, you can head over to buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation and help out in any way that you can.

And if you can't, that's okay too. We still love you. And I'll see all of you on the next one.