Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Joe Williams struggled with alcohol and drugs for years until he was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Joe has been sober 17 years

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Joe Williams has been sober for 17 years it was not a rock bottom situation that started him on the path. Joe was simple sick and tired of being sick and tired and wanted better for his life. When he took an honest look at things drink and drugs were at the centre of many of life’s negative issues. Joe promotes “Don’t look at the what, look at the why.” Joe was a national rugby league  player living out his childhood dream but could not escape his own thoughts and this fuelled his addiction. This is Joe Williams story on the sober motivation podcast. Follow Joe on Instagram: Click Here Support the Podcast: Click here Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram: Click Here Check out the SoberBuddy app: Click Here

Welcome back to season two of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible, one story at a time. Let's go. Joe Williams has been sober for 17 years. It was not a rock bottom situation that started Joe on this path. Joe was simply sick and tired of being sick and tired and wanted a better life for himself. When he took an honest look at things, drinking drugs,

we're at the center of many of life's negative issues. Joe promotes, don't look at the what, look at the why. Joe was a national rugby league player living out his childhood dream, but could not escape his own thoughts, and this fueled his addiction. This is Joe Williams' story on the Sobermotivation podcast. Hey, everyone, how's it going, Brad here? If you're enjoying the podcast, it would mean the world for you to drop a review on your podcasting platform.

All right, let's get into this week's episode. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today, we've got Joe Williams with us. Joe, how are you? I'm doing really well, doing really well. But what is it, you know, different time changes. Sometimes we can mix up times on this side of the world. So it's always a challenge.

You got a second time around trying to do it. But yeah, I'm really good. Awesome. Yeah, that's the truth. I'm so happy that we could narrow something down for this though. Why don't you start us off with what was it like for you growing up? For me, looking back, I had a pretty blessed upbringing. I'm a First Nation man. Growing up was just like any other kid, I was born into a sporting family. My dad was a football

player, rugby league player, and a sporting family that we had a, I guess, a bit of a profile around town, you know, a small town. And I was just a kid with dreams in my eyes to be a sports person, to play footy on TV like my dad did and watching my older brother play every weekend and older cousins and things and I just wanted to be everything like them. I just wanted to be everything like those guys that were playing on TV and from a young age, I'm not sure what it's like on that side of the world, you know, with sport and so forth. But out here, you know, like the kids all sort of gather around the TV and watch these sports stars and emulate what they want to do in the backyard when they're playing and things like that. So, you know, I was just a kid.

with dreams in my eyes to do and be something on the sports field. And as I said, fairly humble beginnings were a family that were known around town because both sort of my mom's family was a strong family, my dad's family was a strong family. So I always just say that, you know, humble beginnings and a family with a stack load of love and care for each other and always wanting the best for each other. Yeah, that sounds incredible. What was it like for you in school and stuff? you were easy to make friends to get along with people to do well?

I think so because I guess looking back at that part of my life, like in a small community, and I was a fairly friendly kid anyway, the little place that we were brought up. I was a fairly friendly kid. You know, you don't see at a young age, you don't see racial divide.

Your friends are like everyone else's friends. It's not until you get older that you start to see the difference with color and race and you know you start to hear things and be treated differently and I guess I didn't see racism as such at a very young age at the first school that I was at when the smaller town it wasn't until we moved towns and as I mentioned my dad was a footy player so out here what happens is if you go right then another town or another team will try and you know get you to go and play for them and my mom and dad decided it was an option to move to another town to better opportunities into a bigger town, better opportunities as far as education and things like

that for us as we grew older. So we moved to a bigger town and that's where I first encountered that sort of difference. Like when I was at the primary school, the primary school was that was from a low socioeconomic sort of area anyway. So like there was a lot of different kids from all different areas. So I didn't really see or notice any difference with that. But then as I got older, the high school that I went to. And our out-schooling system is a little bit different out here, but the high school that I went to, I was only one of two Aboriginal boys or one of two native boys at that school and noticed the difference of being othered, being treated differently because of colour and because of, you know, I'm not an overly dark kid, but just the racial tones around

different things, you notice as you get older. So that was the first time I sort of experienced those things at a younger age. And, you know, some of the first times that, I guess, as a reaction to that, there was the anger and the violence and things like that. But still just a kid who tried to get along with everyone, a kid who had a crack at all sports, I had to go at most sports. And in the early days of going into high school,

it was a way to get out of school too. So you're always playing these different sports. And sport is a way to help you fit in sometimes. It was around about that age, really significant things happen to me in my life that I talk about that. I guess that put me on the past, they're doing what I do now. And those two big impacting things were, one, I signed my first NRL scholarship contract at the age of 13. So just a kid, again, with dreams in his eyes and what those, I guess, scholarships were about. My parents was smart because my dad was

already in that system when he played football. So he was like, you're not going to sign a big long-term contract because they just put you on the heap and don't really, you know, show the attention that you probably want or need. So we signed from the age of 13 one-year deals all the way up just to make sure that, you know, things were right. I talk about those two significant things is the first footballing contract that I got, which put me on a pathway to do what I always wanted to do. But it also helped out a little bit financially.

That first scholarship contract paid for my entire. schooling for the rest of my life. Every year it paid for my school fees, any excursions, anything that I needed for school, you know, as far as books or extracurricular activities and uniforms and things like that. I guess it took a load off financially with mum and dad. So that took me on the pathway to be a sports person that I always wanted to be. And the other significant thing that happened is that I had a massive concussion that knocked me completely out of it. And we know that the research around concussion and had drawn. and the relationship that it has with well-being and mental health.

And it started a conversation in my head that talked to me. And on the back of that first concussion, it started this chatter inside my mind that was dark, that was constant, and that told me that I was worthless, and then I'd never amount to anything, and second-guess and question everything that I did. And then progressively got worse to planting thought, plans and ideas of not being here anymore.

And I've carried that internal dialogue in that negative way for all of my life. I guess that we're at all connection as far as talking to you goes. The only way I could silence what was going on inside my head was to completely put myself out of it. We look at young people that, you know, we might see them as mischievous or troublesome in their teenage years. But for me, those parties where we try and sneak a couple of drinks and so forth, as a young person, you know, 13, 14, 15 year old was about trying to escape what was happening inside my

my head. So for me, that the voice that was always there that I can, that's as far as I can trace it back to. And the work that I do now around trauma and early development, you know, it probably talks to a different story. But what I can trace it back to is to being the loudest that ever was and the most prevalent it ever was, was after that first concussion where there was a hell of a lot of doubt. There was a hell of a lot of paranoia around every single people that was talking about me. And so for me, I guess all I can do is relate it back to that. That first concussion that started that conversation, I guess, will amplify that conversation that led me down a path of running away from escaping and trying to hide the voice that was inside my head.

So just like any other kid with dreams in my eyes and wanting to do everything to be a sports person. You know, I was slowly, I guess, sabotaging a lot of that with what we would see as troublesome behaviors as a teenager. But for me, it was trying to escape what was going on inside my head. And that continued in the age of 15, 16, 17, 18. And then by that point, I'd moved down to Sydney because I was living out in the bush. I was living out in the country. And moved down to Sydney to chase my dreams to be an NRL player. And where we were living was a small town where everyone knew everyone. So I was sort of this little well-profiled kid because of the sporting stuff and because

of my family, everyone knew who we were. So I couldn't be the one that was sneaking into pubs and clubs and because everyone knew who I was who I was. And everyone knew that I was the little footie player that had signed these contracts and things like that. So for me, it was about trying to sneak those and do those things. things in the quiet and do those things in the dark. So going from a small town to a big town, into a town that never sleeps, you know, into Sydney, where it can just be party life

constantly that raise some challenges in itself. And by this point, now I'm 20 year old, I'm playing in the National Rugby League. I was doing everything that I wanted to do. I was playing football on TV every weekend. My face was plastered across, you know, newspapers and TV outlets and things like that, I hated who I was because of the noise that was inside my head. So the more I would drink and then discovered recreational drugs and the more I would take drugs just so I could keep going. The story is very similar to many other people when running away from the noise inside our heads when it comes to alcohol and drug abuse. And that's where I guess the spiral of substance use took me. No longer was I wanting to chase my dreams as a footy player. That's what I was doing,

boil means, but, you know, it was about trying to escape what was happening inside my head through constant substance use. And it wasn't just the alcohol, the drugs, it was anything that wouldn't alter my mind state to get me out of that place that would silence what was happening, the deafening noises. And by this point, it was suicide ideation, you know, so it was the constant battering and barrage of noise inside my head that was telling me not to be here anymore. It's a difficult, I guess, juggling act where every day there might be cameras at our training where we're preparing for the weekends games. And there might be newspaper articles, preparing and talking about those weekends games,

or last weekends, when or the last weekend's loss, and getting asked for autographs in the street or eating out at restaurants. But then looking at yourself in the mirror and hating the person who was looking back at you. And I was doing everything I wanted to do with a kid, everything because of the sporting things and the dreams that I was chasing, I was living those dreams. But I hated who I was because of the voices that were inside my head and because of the alcohol and drug abuse that I was going through. Yeah. Wow, powerful. That's a lot to unpack. I was wondering too there, Joe, when you were sharing that, at what point in time did you figure out

that alcohol would help quiet the voices? Like, was that the first time you drank or was that after a couple times. What did that look like to where you found that this might be a, I want to say a solution. I know it's not like a long-term solution, but it seems to work maybe for a short period of time. It was as a youngster. You look back and you go, it's silly because it's momentarily like a small moment in time when you look at it. It might be for a few hours or just for the night until you pass out. And then the next morning it's straight back at it. And I think looking at it, I guess how I would describe it is that I didn't realize what I was doing until many years later, right? When I sort of, you know, do all this work on myself and look at my past of what's happened

and why it's happened and then start to learn about myself. And I go, I'm like, holy snap, I did that my whole life. You know, we talk about silencing the noise. I did that my whole life. And it's not just with substance. It's with different behaviors of what I did as well, just trying to dissociate from what was happening inside my mind. And that can be problematic too. Let's not just talk about addiction as substance. Like, it can be anything. It can be food.

You know, Gabalmarte talks about any behavior that gives you temporary relief. And you know that it's negative for you, but you choose to do it anyway. So it wasn't just about the substance. There was all sorts of things with my relationships and what that means. And looking back, a hell of a lot of times there were substance involved with it. And that was the poor behaviors in my relationship. and so forth as well. You know, thinking you're out to three and four in the morning

thinking that you're a rock star just because, you know, you're a sports person and you get free drinks at the bar and things like that. Like the behaviors that come with that are problematic as well that we don't talk about enough. It was recognizing that, I guess, in reflection, but looking at it from a young age, I just thought I was a kid like everyone else,

just going through these troublesome behaviors. But I realized that in those moments, was when my head was solemn. Yeah, you had that distraction of some sort maybe. I can relate to that 110% because, like, I hate to say I was destined to the path of struggling with addiction when it comes to a substance, but I struggle with behaviors ever since I can remember. Like, I always had behaviors in life that I was struggling, whether it be lying, stealing,

whether it just be dysfunction. And it could have been drawn up at the time as, like, a really misbehaved teenager. But like you said, too, when I reflect back, I think I was headed on a crash course to, you know, where I ended up with substances and stuff. So I think it can definitely stem from elsewhere. I'm wondering, though, because when I look at that, we look at that, right. Like I've done a hell of a lot of work, self-work, you know, over the year just just trying to untuck, just trying to understand, just trying to work out what it is, inverted commas, wrong with me. because, you know, there's so many times that in my life that I've had really good things going on for me, but then I self-destruct, you know, through behaviors, through substance.

And when you look at what Gabamante says, any behavior that has a negative consequence, and you choose to do it anyway, that could be so many different things in all of our lives, and obviously paraphrasing of what he says. But for me, it wasn't just the substance. it was understanding why I used the substance is where the real healing is. Because once you understand why things happen, that's when you can address it. You can address the why. I take away substance from my life.

And I've been, you know, as I mentioned off here, I've been sober seven, eight years. So for me, I was lucky I got sober when I was really young. You know, I got sober when I was at the height of my dream for different reasons as well. And not jumping to that, but for different reasons as well, I, wanted a better lie than I was living. And looking at all of the negative things were happening, whether it would be relationship breakdowns or arguments or fist fights out on the street and getting myself into different challenges, troublesome behavior, I wanted better because I knew that that wasn't me. And I knew that my life could be better. And I looked at all the negative

things that were happening in my life. And there was one common theme with all of it. It was alcohol drug. So I thought to myself, if I take away these substances, then maybe, just maybe I might be able to pull my life back together and maybe, you know, I might be destined for a better part. Yeah. I really like that that you brought up the part about why. Now, you've shared a lot that might be that why. Have we covered that or is there something else to the why for you? I think the slogan of my organization is don't look at what, look at why. Don't look at what's going on, let's look at why it's going on. And when we understand our why, as I mentioned, we can do a hell of a lot more with it, right? The more I dive into, the more I start to learn

about myself, the more I start to learn about different things and different challenges that happen in my life, I start to understand why, you know? So for me, looking at who I am or looking at who and what I was, we're all people who are just trying to escape. We're all people who are just trying to escape and it's what we're trying to escape is what we're going to find out. I looked at who I am and I looked at my upbringing. And as I mentioned, one of the first things I said was my upbringing was beautiful. My upbringing was great. But we look at different challenges that we have. As people, we're all trying to escape something. And the more work I've done and the more I've got into, you realize that we're just trying to escape chaos. There's different things that we do and

experience them that we go through, that we form coping strategies to escape that chaos. It may not be what we think is super-duper problematic or chaotic that's in our life that we've been exposed to. Because as I mentioned, my life I thought was beautiful. One thing that I will say is that I believe that my parents did the best that they could with the tools that they had. And that's the most important thing that we can say and realize when we're going through all these different things.

But for me, there was chaos in my mind. And what that is and how it gets there can range from different things. You know, for me and the journey of who I am now is about unpacking that and understanding that. But also not trying to see that as problematic, trying to see that as, you know what, this is something that's there. We're just going to start to manage it. Yeah, so powerful. So you're in the NRL, right? This is the National Rugby League in Australia.

that's the one that right okay see i'm not a i don't watch much rugby i actually it's kind of weird i had some rugby on on the weekend and i'm trying to figure out what's going on here they had so many chances to do the touchdown and then they got turned over and they got it back and i guess it was just used to football i guess the american football thing so and when did you so you sign your first contract at 13 so is this like you're a prospect for being professional or do you actually start training then? Or how does that work? Yeah, so it's like prospect, right?

So what happens is that I'd sign those contracts leading up to, but then moved down to the Sydney. But I was still playing just like my normal. I was living in the town, Wogga Wogga where I was living. And my everyday life was just the same to go to school and to play football. And just like any other kid, it's just that the club, who's the contract I signed, would just keep an eye on me and you set it perfectly as far as like a prospect.

And then, you know, they would develop me and nurture me. And again, this is why the contract involves paying to the right things developmentally as well. So any representative sides I'd make, then they would contribute to helping me playing those sides and take some financial pressure off, mom and dad. So it was about watching and nurturing my development as a young person. At 13 year old, am I going to go down and play on the big stage? Not at 13 year old, I'm not.

You know, like physically I'm not going to. Developmentally, I'm not going to. But for me, I was really lucky that every year, they would bring me down. They would bring me down to train with the big guys. So every year since I was 13 year old, I would go down a couple of times a year and play and train with these guys. I was exposed to the great coaching, great, you know, training and just getting my mind ready to be one of those players, you know, one of those, developmentally, one of those

players, getting you nurtured in systems and things like that. So it was a pretty cool experience. It sounds like it. Wow, that's incredible. What I'm wondering, though, Joe, is how, like, so you have this other stuff going on in your mind, right, that maybe I might be off with this, but what I'm getting from it is that you're not good enough and you're struggling with these other thoughts. How was that transferring over to like the big stage here of like, you're doing all of this stuff in real life where people dream to go, where you dream to go. Now you've got this struggle with substances on top of it, the behaviors as well. How did that affect your mental health? Or did it? Yeah. The only time I was free was when I was on the field. You know, when I was in that

moment with people screaming on the sidelines when I was in that moment where you, you know, you could be playing in front of 50 people or 5,000 people. And, you know, you can't hear anything. You're just centered, focused solely on what's happening right in front of you. And that's the key, right? That's the key. It's the act of being present. Right. So the minute that I was in those games that I could see the defense coming at me where, because my position as well, I guess my position I'm like, in your terms like the quarterback. Right. So I've got to organize everyone else. I've got to, We don't have a defensive team and an offensive team. We play the whole time.

So my job is to organize all the offense, probably hide a little bit in defense because I was one of the little guys. But set up our team's positional play and get us in the right areas. So I would do all the kicking, all of those sort of things, to get the right areas, field position, to get the tries or to get the touchdown. So the only time that I was free from what I was going through in the mind was when I was on the field, you know, outside or external to what was happening on the field was where I was challenged by what was going on inside my head. Yeah. And while this was going on, did you ever seek any help,

any support for this stuff? Well, that's the thing. If we think that there's a stigma about mental health now in 2023, think about what it was like in 1997 in the year 2000, in the year 2002. I sat down with some fantastic sports science. But did I tell them everything? think there was going on inside my head? No, I did. Like a couple of different clubs that I was at. They always knew that this kid had something. This kid can be fantastic on the football field. For them, there's days you don't see. What's going on mentally for this kid? So that conversation was always there, you know, with therapists and friend coaches and with, you know, mind coaches and things like that. Did I disclose completely that I was having suicidal ideation? No,

because I was trying to hold my spot down. You know, so the biggest challenges right throughout my entire career was my mind. We had it out. And it wasn't until I got so with it. This is the thing, right? I was having challenges with alcohol and drugs because that was silencing what was going on. But I realized that everything, the negative was happening in my life was centered around alcohol and drugs.

So I took away alcohol and drugs and what did you think happened? The noise went sky high in my head, you know? So now I've got to realize. or now I've got to start to identify some different tools to be able to silence what's going on inside my head to function without the substance. And it was through those times, I realized that the only things I had in common with my teammates with alcohol and drugs and partying and playing football, you know, so the only things I had in common were playing football and party.

Now, I wasn't partying anymore because I'd started this life of sobriety and I wasn't particularly enjoy my football either. So at the end of the 2008 season, I walked away from playing rugby league and I walked into a boxing gym. I didn't walk into a boxing gym because I was the world's most aggressive and biggest fighter in the world. It was probably quite the opposite. Like as a rugby league player, I wasn't the world's most physical person. So going into a boxing gym and getting punched in the mouth wasn't overly entertaining. But for me, it was learning how to control what was going on inside my mind and fighting against that little person that lived inside you. I talk about it again later as the enemy within.

That's what my organization's called the enemy within. But when I look at what that inverted comma's enemy is, it was just a scared little boy who just needed some love and some nurture and didn't understand what was going on. And when you're in the boxing ring and you've got a guy on the other side of the ring trying to knock your teak out, you start to ask yourself some questions. Am I good enough to be in here? am I fit enough to be in it? Do I really want to do this anymore?

So the physical side of boxing was the biggest gift for me because it taught me how to build and nurture and fight back against that negative voice that was inside my head. So for years and years and years, I silenced it with substance and then learning how to curb, learning how to silence, learning how to or just nurture, learning how to nurture that. You know, I learned through boxing because you're constantly, have to tell yourself, come on, let's just go one more.

Let's just dig that little bit more. You know, as a rugby league player, when I searched inside myself, I didn't like the person I found when times got tough. Because that person was scared, he was vulnerable, he was somebody who didn't like the reality of confrontation. Now, through the years of boxing, when I searched deep inside myself, that little person still sits there. But I can take him by the hand and say, it's all right.

we can get through this together. So boxing taught me how to fight back, you know, and that's a really, I guess, a very straightforward term, boxing taught me how to fight back. No, no, boxing taught me how to mentally fight back from what was happening from the self-destruction that was going on and saw my head. Yeah, wow. How long did it take before you transition from the rugby to the boxing? That was a week or a year?

Oh, no, like so. So I finished my rugby league season. at the end of 2008 in about August, and I had my first fight in November. Wow. That year. And you've got to understand as well is that I went from, and I guess you guys work in the pound system over there, so I'm trying to do a bit of a quick conversion, but I went from playing rugby league at 82 kilograms, which is roughly, you know, if it's

double, 150, 160 pounds, and 160, 170 pounds. And again, not great with maths. But then I went from Rugby League players, 82 kilogram player. And my first fight was at 69 kilograms. So I lost 12, 13 kilograms for my first bite. So, and then I progressively got down lower and lower and lower. And I was fighting at 63 kilograms up for playing by NRL career at 82, 83. So losing 20 kilograms, which is close to 40 pounds, difference between the two sports.

So that obviously takes a while as well and that talks to the conversation inside your head as well. When we're talking about addictions or addictive behaviors, it's not just substance. It can be food as well. So training my mind with that and training my discipline with that was one of the greatest things I got out of boxing as well because it taught me to eat well, it taught me how to train hard because if you're in the boxing ring and you haven't trained hard, you soon get found out nice and fast.

because it's a tough sport where there's nowhere to hide. Yeah, Joe, I can only imagine. I can only imagine how that would play out for sure. I'm wondering, too, because you touched on the part there about your sobriety and how once you got sober, then. You didn't see much in common with the boys and with the rugby and you stepped away from that. But what was that like for you to get sober? What did that look like? Did something happen?

Did you just say, enough was enough? Was there a conversation? Well, I'd been sober as well for a couple of years during my first. my career as well, but it wasn't. I think I got sober at the start of the 2006 season and then I walked away from the NRL at the end of the 2008 scene. So there was, you know, times throughout my plane career where I was sober and, you know, that was a challenge because it's an environment where I guess drinking is afforded. I can say that I guess is a country out here in Australia. It's a challenging topic because drinking and substance use is applauded.

You know, we pat the guy on the back who's completely out of it at a party and vomiting everywhere, you know, we always say, oh, you know, laugh and look at that guy. But, you know, I was in an environment where it was challenging. And I always talk about the conversation I had with a really, really close friend who was in the offseason and I was going down to play at a touch football carnival. And he was the noted partier. You know, he was the guy who was, we all knew that he was the noted party, you know. And I said, where have you been, man?

Like, I haven't seen you for a while. Where are you been? He was like, I just don't go out anymore. I'm, you know, things have changed and I'm on a different path now. So what do you mean you on a different path? And he said, I don't drink anymore. I was like, and that conversation just hit different. It was like, I'd never heard that before.

I'd never heard anyone say, I don't drink anymore. from someone who was the life of the party. But I knew that when he said that, everything inside my head went, I want that. I want that life because a big part of me was telling me that I couldn't do it. And a big part of me had already started to self-analyze where all the troubles were in my life, which were around substance. And, you know, we're in the back of the car,

and it was a car ride for four or five hours down the highway. And he planted the seed plenty of times. and sell my head and I started to think, well, maybe I could get so. Maybe it's time for me to do that. And that weekend, I actually said to him, I was like, that's it. When we get back to Sydney, I'm not going to drink in him. And he was like, why wait till you get back to Sydney? Why not stop now?

And I just couldn't do it. I could not do it, you know, but I gave it a red, hot crack again for that weekend. And when I went home, I walked into the rooms of alcoholics and not on us. Wow. It's interesting to me because it seems like, it seems like a lot of people share a story of like this big rock bottom and then the next day, whether it be impaired driving or jail or something.

And then the next day they're just like, I got to get sober and they move on with their life. And then there seems to be like another side of the street where it seems like over the years things have just built up and then we hear something or it's just the timing or something. And then it's like it's not even this. maybe this big significant thing that happens, but it just gets us in that space. You know what I mean?

It's interesting because I share sort of a similar thing. I mean, I went to prison. I was living on my brother's floor. I had so many rock bottoms in life. And I went to rehab for 12 months and, you know, so many things. And I never got sober after that. I feel like the stars aligned in a sense one day. And there was a window.

There was an opportunity for me to like not die. And I had an opportunity to like give life a chance. and I slowly but surely just went that way. Interesting. I think for me as well, like people say that. Like what was you rock? What am I? I don't like looking back on it.

And it was a number of years ago now, but I don't think I had one. But for me it was just the culmination of many things. And also, I guess the main driver of it is that I wanted to save my career because I knew that everything that was problematic was happening was around alcohol and drugs. so I wanted to save my career and get back on track.

And that was the best thing to do. But then once I got sober, I was like, I don't have a great deal in common with these guys. You know, so for me, the great phrase that I can use in all of it was I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. For me, it was like, I just couldn't live like that anymore. Now, I wasn't the world's most problematic drunk. Others may disagree, but I wasn't the guy who was blind. violent, it was a fun, happy, lovable guy. I just didn't know when to go home. And that had all sorts of problematic challenges as well. I was a young father at this point. And more than anything in the

entire world, more than the sport, more than anything, I wanted to be a good dad. More than anything in the world, I wanted to be a good dad. Now, I wasn't being a good dad if I was going out on a Friday and coming home Sunday and then sitting around coming down for a couple of days. and the impacts and effects that it has with everyone walking around on eggshaws throughout the house. That's not the farther I envisioned to be. And I didn't want to be that. Again, there were other problematic behaviors that were associated with that with me,

that without a doubt I'm not proud of. And that has taken me many, many, many years to start to iron out those behaviors. To be a better person, better man, better representative, be a better father, all of that, a person who can look at himself in the mirror and say that I'm a better person there. And that's through 17 years of sobriety. I don't believe I couldn't have done it if I was still drinking and taking drugs. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's the tough part is, yeah, when we're drinking and taking drugs,

it's really hard to actually get to the bottom of what's going on. But I mean, that's another myth, too, I think in recovery, right? Because a lot of people are, I think they're under this assumption. You know, maybe some people, maybe a lot of people, is that the alcohol and the drugs are the problem. And if I stop alcohol or I stop drugs, by some miracle, my life just improves. And what I'm getting from your story and just correct me if I'm wrong here, Joe, is that that was simply the beginning of the work that had to be done for you to get where you're at today. And like what I'm getting from what you're sharing is that even after 17 years, which is incredible, huge congrats on that, by the way, you're still a work in progress type thing, still uncovering and unpacking.

So I'm always a big fan of recovery is a journey. For me personally, it's not someplace that I'm just going to end up or that I have ended up. I'm always learning new stuff. Well, it's in the word. It's in the word. If you understand words, if you understand language, recovery is a progress. We don't use the word recovered. That implies that we're well, that everything's fixed, right?

So it's a work in progress. Recovery is a work in progress. 17 years constantly working. And I don't think, I honestly think that the real work has been done and only because my mind's not clouded from alcohol and drug. And you said something really important is that let's not look at what we're doing. Again, my slogan, don't look at wine, look at wine. Let's not look at what we're doing.

Everyone says that alcohol and drugs are bad. Yes, they are. But the reason we use alcohol and drugs is the bad thing. You know, saying that it's bad, it's probably not the right terminology as well. Because we are all conditioning with experiences and we go through experiences throughout our life that shape who we are. So for me, it's like we've got to find out who we are and why we do things. Every single day, we're.

constantly uncovering these different behaviors, these different things of who we are and while we do it. Yeah, so true. That's so true. So where are you at today with the thoughts and in that stuff you struggled with when you were younger? They're still there. I just understand them a bit more now. It's one of those things that we're constantly doing the work. We're constantly doing the work. So I'm constantly trying to understand who I am and why I am. This comes with the work that I've done in the trauma space. When you understand trauma, you understand that it's not just the big things that happen to you. It's the little nuances that we go through and that we experience right throughout our life, that shape and form exactly who we are. So I was in the

mental health field for a number of years until I started to, and you know, the suicide prevention and looking at the challenges that happened with those behaviors that we have throughout our communities, the more I started to learn about mental health, the more I started to learn that mental health and the behaviors of mental health that form these diagnosis of depression and anxiety are all just a product of early adversity and trauma that we experience in our lives. So I started to learn and dive into as much as I possibly could about trauma and how it impacts the body and how it impacts our behaviors. And when you're around it enough and you're learning, you understand enough, it's hard to unsee things with other people's behaviors. And I guess the

beauty of all of that is that I now can see my behaviors as well. And the reason I got into this space is obviously because of learning about experiences or helping to me to understand the experiences that I have. But for me, it was about understanding the impacts that separation has had on my kids and so forth with the families that I've got five kids to three separate relationships. Some of the people that I love the absolute most in the world, I've hurt the absolute most in the world as in my kids and as far as family separations and things like that. So the reason I got into the trauma space and started to understand more and more about behaviors was to help me to understand the impacts that I've had on other people, but also help help.

me to understand how I can help to heal the people that I love the most, which is, you know, my young people, you know, my kids. Yeah. Yeah, that's so important. If somebody's listening to the podcast here and they're struggling to get or stay sober, to stay on track, what advice from your own journey would you have for them? I guess to break it down and put it really simple and to put it really, really easy is that we always, particularly people who are challenged by alcohol and who are starting to get the pressure

from the outside to get sober. You know, we always say, I'm going to get sober for my kids or I'm going to get sober for my relationship or I'm going to get sober for X, Y, Z. But we can never get sober for anyone else until we want to do it for ourselves. And breaking it down, you know, so simply is that the old saying, of one day at a time. I sit here at 8 a.m. in the morning not thinking about if I'm going to drink tomorrow or not. I've been sober for 17 years and I don't think about being sober tomorrow. I think about just being sober today. And I say to people all the time, like, do you think you can

stay off the drink for one day? Of course I could. It's easy. Okay, we'll do that. If you stay have a drink for one day you can stay out for drink for all your life because you stay off for it today for one day just today then you worry about tomorrow when it gets it you know when we break it down nice and simple it becomes a hell of a lot easier for us rather than say i'm going to get sober for six months i'm going to do 12 months i'm going to do two years you know like just do it today right and then start again tomorrow 17 years i've got true doing that yeah that's so i mean that's so powerful just for today. Like, I'm a true believer that you can do anything for a day. And then you just worry about the next day when the next day comes. And then you'll string together 17

years like Joe, you know, one day at a time, right? So that's, that's all it's bad. Yeah, that's, that's incredible. So wrapping things up here, Joe, is there anything you want to leave everybody with? I always get asked, what's the best advice? What's the best advice that we can give people? Whether it doesn't even have to be sobriety, this isn't even a message about sobriety. It's a message about you being the best you. All of the work that I do is just trying to help people to be the best version of himself. And if the best version of yourself is the version without alcohol in it, is the version without drugs, then be that. Just be the best you, whether it's eating healthy, whether it's exercising.

It doesn't matter what it is. Just be the best version of you every single day. one day at a time. And I promise you, your life will change beyond imagination. Yeah. Just to go off of that for a second, do you feel that there's like one, two, three or four specific things that get in our way when trying to be our best self, live in our best life? Yeah, I think it's the influence of other people. Us, and this all comes back to early development as well. The experiences that we have with other people and how those experiences with other people, how our brain interprets that, right, whether we feel that we have to please that person or whether we feel that we don't want

to please that person. You know, we have to start to understand ourselves, understand our own brain, our own early development, the own experiences that we had and how that shapes us. So I was the keynote for the World Indigenous Suicide Prevention Conference a couple of years ago. My keynote topic was how early trauma and childhood adversity impact the behaviors we have as adults. Everything that we go through now, absolutely everything, was all conditioned in the very early years of our lives. How we interpret the world, whether we are wide for connection or wide for survival, on constant alert, aka anxiety, is all formed. in the very early years of our lives.

So the beautiful thing about that is that, you know, some people might go, yeah, well, I just had a shit house upbringing. That just reminds me of how traumatic my upbringing was. No, no, no. The beautiful thing about that is that our brain is this incredible, incredible thing that is constantly rewiring and constantly developing whatever we feed it. Right. So if we're constantly feeding it positive, it's going to start to wire,

You know, it's malleable, so it's constantly moving and forming and developing in different ways. So the best thing is, is that whilst my journey of sobriety has been 17 years, I'm only scratching the surface of where I want to get to. You know, it doesn't mean you have to wait 17 years to do that. It just means that you have to make a decision whether you want to do that or not. And that starts right now. Yeah. Yeah, wow. I love that.

Thank you so much, Joe. So much insight here to digest. Thank you so much for sharing all that with us. I'm just thankful that we've got to get it done, you know? Like, this is the second time we try to do it, because of the different time changes. I'm now sitting in my five-year-old daughter's room away from everyone because all the kids are running around trying to get ready for school. So I'm just, hopefully we got to do it, man. And hopefully it resonates with some people because that's what it's about.

You know, it's about resonating. And I remember sitting in the very first meetings and I went to it. our colleagues, and none of us. And the oldest sober members got up and said, today I'm 10 years sober, today I'm 15 years sober, today I'm one year sober. And I wanted that. I wanted that.

And the addict mind, we always go, we want it now. But we're going to realize that I had to realize that you've got to slow everything down and just be present in the present moment and just be the best version of us that we can be in each present moment. And slowly one by one, one day by one day, they all add up. I'm sitting here this morning in the 18th year of my sobriary. And without a doubt, I wouldn't be able to do the things that I do now if I was drinking, taking drugs and not having my brain function at 7am on a Tuesday morning to do podcasts like this

to talk about sobriety. There is all sorts of positive things that happen. I'll also share what my sponsor told me in the early years. And this was when I was playing in the NRL. My sponsor told me, he said, I don't care if you're a footballer, if you're a lawyer, or whatever you do, the highest paying job in the world or the lowest paying job in the world. I don't care what you do, whether you're a father, a husband, anything that you do in life, without alcohol, you will be better at it.

And that really stuck to me. And I wanted to be a good dad in those early years. I wanted to be good at saving my career in those early years. I want to be the best person I could be in those early years and all come to be because I didn't put alcohol into my system. Yeah, wow, powerful. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, this has been awesome.

I'm glad that we were able to narrow this down like the time zones and different days. And yeah, it's Monday here. It's Tuesday for you, Joe. So, yeah, this has been cool. Thank you again so much. Thank you very much. Another incredible episode. This is actually the 40th,

episode of the podcast in what seems like a few short months. I'm extremely grateful for the support that we've received for people sharing their stories that I'm happy to hear pretty much every single day that something that somebody shared has been helping you on your journey. That's the purpose here. That we're not alone and that there is a better life out there if we just stay on this track or we get on it. If you're struggling with connection in your journey, be sure to check us out at the Sober Buddy app.

We have the 10 live support groups plus member meetups. We're adding new groups and stuff all the time. So come over and check us out, your SoberBuddy.com or your favorite app store, Your Sober Buddy. Join the community. Get plugged in. Get support. Have the opportunity to help support others. We all know that that's an incredible thing that we can give back.

with our own story. Also, if you're able to support the podcast editing, head over to the show notes, or buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation, drop a donation, take your weekly trip to Starbucks off the table and donate that so we can keep the editing going for the podcast. And I don't have to stay up until two in the morning every single day. So thank you so much, and I'll see you on the next one.