Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Les knew if he was going to have a chance at sobriety he could not do it alone. 42 Years Sober

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

In this episode, we have  Les who reflects on his upbringing often feeling like an outcast, and this would set the foundation for his struggle with alcohol. He recalls the moment he realized the extent of his addiction and the crucial choice he made toward recovery. Les discusses the value of connecting with others who understand this journey, and finding hope and encouragement in AA meetings and the wider sober community. In 2003 he lost his wife and recounts the struggle of the loss while maintaining his sobriety, and the importance of living day by day. Les has been sober for 42 years, offering hope to so many people. This is Les’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. ------------------ Check Out the SobahSistahs Retrat Info here: https://sobahsistahs.com/bali-2024 Check out SoberLink Here: www.soberlink.com/recover Follow Les on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/owman56/ Follow Austin Williams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/austinwilliams_music/ Grab Charmaine's ‘Delicious & Doable ~ Recipes For Real and Everyday Life’ Cookbook: 👇 https://www.amazon.ca/Delicious-Doable-Recipes-Real-Everyday/dp/1989304559

Welcome to Season 3 of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. In this episode, we have Les, who reflects on his upbringing, often feeling like an outcast. And this would set the foundation for his struggles with alcohol. He recalls the moment he realized the extent of his addiction and the crucial choice he made

towards recovery. Les discusses the value of connecting with others who understand this journey and finding hope and encouragement in AA meetings and the wider sober community. In 2003, he lost his wife and recounts the struggle of the loss while maintaining his sobriety and the importance of living day by day. Less has been sober for 42 years, offering hope to so many. This is Les's story on the Sober Motivation Podcast. Here's a quick update from Soba Sisters, your go-to community for women's sobriety and empowerment. Megan from Soba Sisters is hosting two incredible sober retreats, Bali in April and Vermont in May. These retreats are all about empowering your sober journey in magical settings and building friendships to last a lifetime.

If you're interested, head over to Soba Sisters.com slash Bali-24 for more. details. If you've been a fan of the show for a while, going all the way back to episode number two, Megan came on the podcast and shared her story. I'm definitely grateful for the friendship that Megan and I have developed over the years working together on several projects. Check out these retreats that she's putting together. She's already done a couple, and they've been nothing short of incredible. And I've got to give another huge shout out to her other new sponsor, Charmaine Cooking Show hosts and author. author of delicious and doable recipes for real and everyday life.

Charmaine prides herself on living a drug and alcohol-free lifestyle, and she's also a huge fan of the show. So if you're hungry for fun, delicious, and doable dishes, Charmaine's collection of over 70 mouthwatering recipes will be sure to please your hungry gang. Pumpkin muffins with coconut crumbled toppings, lemon walnut, tuna melts, cranberry turkey burgers with sweet, horseradish mayo,

and grilled chocolate sandwiches are just a few of the fabulous and flavorful dishes. You will enjoy preparing and devouring with ease. Check out Charmaine's cookbook today. I'll drop the link in the show notes below to the Amazon listing. Let's go. Getting sober is a lifestyle change, and sometimes a little technology can help. Imagine a breathalyzer that works like a habit tracker for sobriety. Soberlink helps you replace bad habits with healthy ones.

weighing less than a pound and as compact as a sunglass case, Soberlink devices have a built-in facial recognition, tamper detection, and advanced reporting, which is just another way of saying it'll keep you honest. On top of all that, results are sent instantly to loved ones to help you stay accountable. Go after your goals. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device. How's it going, everyone? welcome back to another episode.

Look, I sat down with Austin Williams, who has an incredible song called Wanna Be Saved. That interview is going to come up first. And then we're going to jump right into Les's story. With 42 years sober, this is an incredible story. It felt like I was sitting for a coffee with my grandfather when he was still with us here.

It was just an incredible story. You're really going to love it. But first, let's check in with Austin. We're going to hear the song, Wanted Be Saved, and we're going to be saved. And we're going to hear a lot more about what this whole song is all about. Today we've got a special guest, Austin Williams, on the show. And he had a song that stood out to me.

I caught it on Instagram, must have been a month ago or a few weeks ago, at least. And it really explains what it's like going through this journey of addiction and then sobriety and all that type of stuff. So I reached out to him and here he is with us today. He's going to play us a little bit of the track for context. And then we're going to have a few questions about it. Austin, how are you? Good.

How are you, man? I'm good, man, and I really appreciate you jumping on here and being willing to do all this stuff with us. Yeah, man, thank you for having me. Anytime I can get on and talk, you kind of talk to people and kind of give the story of the song and kind of, you know, try to influence people in a different way than my voice. It's always fun. Yeah, that's what I always love about music too. It's one thing to hear the song, but it's always a different way to connect with the artist when you hear why the song. So why don't you jump in there and play some of it for us. Yeah, I'll play it for you real quick. In the liquor and the pills, cold sweats and the chills I can't even sell if I'm living these days. I'm so broken, I'm a wrecked eyes, bloodshot red. I'm starting to think that there ain't a way to have run this pain.

It was like I fell off the train. I think I'm going insane. I'm at it south down a northbound highway. Won't make it out of this night living my way. Got the devil on my shoulder. Only getting closer heavens never failed so far away I'm losing this game called live at the moment There's no way out right now and it's your way

I had to choose between the Bible the bottle today Baby I don't want to be safe All the lies that you would tell got me lying to myself Every morning in the mirror saying I'm okay Still got bourbon on my breath, begging, praying for some help looking up in the sky, but all I find is rain. Do I run this pain? It was like I fell off the train. I think I'm going to sing.

I'm in south down a northbound highway. We'll make it out of this line every mile way. Got the devil on my shoulder, hell's only getting closer if it's never felt so far away. I'm losing this game called out at the moment. There's no way out right now, and it's your way. If I had to choose between the Bible, the bottle of the day, maybe I don't want to be saved. I don't want to be saved, and maybe this.

Because I can't take what I'm going through. The hell is hell going to be. I can't take it here on earth. Maybe I should hit my knees and take him on his word. Because I'm in south down a northbound highway. Won't make it out of this life living my way Got the devil on my shoulder hell's only getting closer But heaven's never too far away

I'm losing this game called live at the moment There's one way out right now and it's your way If I had cheese between a bottle of the day I know I should open that book and turn to the paper He said, I don't want to be saved. Incredible. Thank you, man. Thank you.

Yeah, I was just thinking, man. I was cleaning the house last week to listen to your album. And then for you here, it's just incredible, man, too, you know, for the song and everything. So walk us through the story behind this, want to be saved. Yeah, man. So it all started. I was kind of going through this really dark spell. And I won't get totally too into the dark spell because it's kind of not my.

It wasn't my battle. I was just kind of caught in the, you know, I was still a kid in high school and kind of got caught in crossfire of some different things going on and that I didn't have much control over. And I kind of, you know, didn't really have a way out. So I found alcohol. That was kind of the mile. I found that at 17 years old. And that was kind of the start of it. And man, I come up with the idea of the song. I had one of these moments where I realized, like, I've never. touching anything ever again. And I was sitting out there and I was just kind of still going through that hard time and I was really like upset and I kind of sit down and come up with the idea of the song that night. Because you know, you kind of hit this point of bottom that it's easier to just keep doing what you're doing than to turn it around. It's so much easier to just keep going the way I'm going. Like it seems like quitting and trying to fix everything is a whole lot harder than just the route you're on. So I was like if I had to pick between a Bible or a bottle, like a bottle would be a a whole lot easier.

But then I got, I was really upset one night and I wrote the first verse in the course. And it was a couple weeks later. I took it into a write with the buddy of my grandborm and we wrote the second verse of it. And man, it hit me like a ton of bricks on the way home that if like anybody who listened to this song could feel half of the pain that I felt when I wrote it, I never wanted it to be heard. I'd played it for my dad and I kind of seen, you know, his reaction to it and seeing like the anger that it could bring out somebody.

and it brought it out in me when I listened to it. I never wanted to be heard. I hated the song. I hated it. It was the one song. I always said it was the one song I wish I never wrote. But I was talking with a good friend of mine. And we were kind of talking about it because my management team had brought up the idea of cutting it.

I was like, I truly don't feel comfortable cutting. I don't want it to be heard. And man, I was sitting there and I was praying about it, really. And the entire turnaround in the bridge and the last chorus, I punched me in the face. and I wrote all of that down in about two minutes and I didn't change a word. Other than when I went to record the song, my producer, it was, I think I should open that book

and turn to the page and my producer looked back and he said, man, it's I know. He said, it's I know. And I was like, it is, I know. So we changed that. I wrote that down in about two minutes and it was like, then I was like, I want to cut the song.

And before I had time to cut it, there was a guy in Nashville that was bigger than me and he was like, man, I want to cut the song. And like it was a really good opportunity for me and the other writer and man, he didn't want to put the bridge in it. I told him no. And me, yeah, I told him no. And we ended up cutting the song with the bridge, you know, the way I really truly felt my heart the way it was supposed to be heard and kind of put some hope in there. And that's kind of the, you know, the rest is history.

We put it out and it's done well and a lot of people's connected with it. Yeah, wow. Even hearing, I mean, the song's powerful in itself, but hearing the story about how this all came to be in it, it wasn't on your top list of ones to put out there. Where are you at now with it? With the want to be safe song? Yeah. And like with that perspective of you never wanted it to be heard.

I'm so glad that. Yeah, man, it was like, I'm so glad that it got to be heard the right way. You know, it was like when that bridge came and I'm a big faith guy, you know, and I believe that, you know, everything happens for a reason. There was a reason I felt like it never needed to be heard. And then there was a reason that. bridge came and there was a reason you know that after that bridge came it was like now's the time and i feel like if i would have done it without that bridge kind of the original way that it was

supposed to be cut that would spread it a terrible message i feel like you know like i agree with you but there's no there's never any upside to it you know and like and i understand that like even when i was going through some things like nobody wants to listen to songs about you know getting out of my problems when i'm in my problems but what i love about it is, you know, now the way it is, is like, if you hear it, it's like, I relate to this, I relate to this. And then the turnaround and the hope in it comes out of nowhere. Like, you don't really know that there's hope coming.

And that kind of correlates with most people's addiction stories, you know, it's like, you never know that hope's coming and then, like, you never believe that hope's coming. And in the song, you know, you don't believe that hope's coming and then it hits you. Yeah. So the whole correlation of the. the song worked out, you know, beyond perfect. Yeah, it's wild looking back. Hindsight's 2020 how that works out so often, right?

100%. Yeah. Always, I believe it always works out like it's supposed to. Yeah. It's sometimes, and I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that all day. And sometimes it's painful in the moments. It can be painful in the moments because we want it to all work out the way we see it.

But there's other things in play here. And we just have to trust and believe in that, that things are going to work out. when we're ready for it too and when it's supposed to be. And it's going to have the biggest impact when all that plays out. Yes, sir. Speaking on that impact, what impact you hoping to have on others with this song? And since it's been released for a bit now, what kind of feedback have you gotten from people? Man, so everybody, you know, everybody talks about like the charts and stuff like that.

That's never been my goal. You know, my goal is to help people. Music's healing. and the feedback we've got from this song, there's people reaching out to me talking about how I've saved their life, how this song saved their life. And everybody talking about the different things,

like, this got me through. I was on the verge, I was looking for a sign, and this got me through. Or I relate to this song, it kind of keeps me going every single day. And that right there is like everything that I ever wanted music to be. It's tons of people every day

that reach out to me, you know, talking about how this song has helped in their life. And, man, that's the greatest gift I could ever have. You know, there's no money. There's no awards. There's no charts. There's no nothing that can put anything over that. Like, that is everything to me. Yeah, that's incredible.

What are your thoughts? When you hear that, you're like, we cut this song and it's changing people's lives. It's helping them get, you know, maybe look within and start to make changes in their life. I mean, how do you feel? You're in somewhere like that. It makes me feel a blessing that I can just be part of the plan. You know, I feel like I'm not the one controlling the plan, but I'm just blessed to be part of it and part of that journey.

You know, a song that was so meaningful to me and, you know, the roller coaster of the song with not wanting to put it out and then putting it out when I felt like it was time. And then seeing how it impacted people's lives, it was like, I'm just so glad to be a part of that plan. Yeah, no. that that's, I mean, like you said, that makes it all worth it, right? No charts, no money is, you know. Yeah. I mean, I could never make a dollar, you know, and do that every day and, you know, put up these songs every day that help people and affect people's life, you know?

Like, that's all worth it to me. Yeah, that's incredible. I'm looking at the one, the part of the lyrics here too, right? I'm starting to think that there ain't no way to outrun this pain. Feels like I fell off the train. I mean, that explains it to me, man, to a T, right? Because when you get wrapped up in the addiction, the substance use. It truly feels like that. And I think a part of in my journey that came to a point where I just accepted that this is the way my life is going to be, addicted to drugs, consuming alcohol, addicted to alcohol as well. And you kind of just bow down to this idea of there's no way out because we try to get out. And then it seems like we just fall short. You know, I just fell short so many times. And that just really hit me, man. It really brought me back to those people to really

feel a lot of empathy and compassion for those people still out there struggling in that cycle. And I think that's really, you know, it has already connected with a lot of people. And I think it's going to continue to do that. Yes, sir. And that's, you know, that's kind of, and it was cool to see the people that related to it the way they did. You know, everybody's got a different part of the song and they're like, you know, this explains it. And I'm like, that's the blessing to me is hearing stories exactly like that, like this right here

explained it to me. And, you know, that's so cool for me. Incredible. Before we sign off, is there anything else you want to, that you want to share with everybody? If you got dreams out there, chase them. And, you know, I think my biggest message is it doesn't matter what you're going through right now. Your struggles are what make you who you are. There's no, and there's no problem that we go through that we're the only person going through. Even though in the moment it feels like you are the only person going through that. There's tons of other people going through that. And I know I've seen with my problems, I'm sure a lot of people seem to These problems make you feel ashamed.

And they make you feel ashamed to speak out, you know, and say things. And it starts with shame to not tell anybody. But then it goes to nobody cares because nobody's trying to help me. But really, it's nobody knows. And if nobody knows, no one can help. So that's my biggest message is don't be ashamed of the struggles, you know, that you go through. Because at the end of the day, we're all human and we all face those struggles. We're all human and our struggles make us who we are.

And if we're not shamed of them and we voice them, people can be there in help and you can actually see the amount of support that you have, you know, instead of, you know, not voicing it and feeling alone. So that's my biggest message. Yeah, beautiful way to wrap things up. Again, thank you so much, Austin. Thank you so much, brother. Thank you for having me.

Huge shout out to Austin for jumping on here and sharing all that stuff. A little bit of behind the scenes of wannabe saved. Be sure to give Austin a follow on Instagram. Austin Williams underscore music. I'll drop the link down in the show notes below. Now let's get to Les's story. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Les with us.

Les, how are you? I'm awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here and how we start every show is with the same question. What was it like for you growing up? I was a loner. There wasn't anybody close to my age when I grew up. And I came from Nebraska out to Cheyenne, Wyoming.

And I always felt like that outcast. I didn't feel like I was ever accepted. And all I wanted to do was fit in. I wanted to be accepted. And it just seemed it wasn't that way. Growing up, again, a loner. And trying for me to be that square peg that needed to fit in that round hole.

Mm-hmm. Just didn't work. Yeah, no, I hear you. I hear you on that, too. I remember when I reflect back at the time when I was younger, I didn't exactly know what the heck was going on or how to articulate it. That's what I was doing. But when I look back, my behaviors lined up with somebody who just wanted to exist in the world and kind of be like everybody else that had friendships and relationships. And I seemed to struggle so much to keep those together. How was things with your folks growing up? they were heavy drinkers.

And that is where I kind of got a little bit of that deal, that drinking was part of life. And, of course, in Wyoming, there ain't a lot more to do than drink anyway. But if you did, and if you went hunting, there was a lot of drinking there. So, I mean, I just grew up in that type of a culture. I cannot say that my parents were alcoholic, because the doctors told them to stop drinking and they did. And it didn't bother them.

Whereas with me, every time I tried to stop drinking, it was a disaster. That plain and simple was a disaster. I remember the very first sip of alcohol I ever had was off of a beer that my mom gave me a little sip. And I can't remember that I really liked it. But I do remember about five minutes later, I walked back over and wanted another sniff. Yeah. The first drink, mixed drink they gave me,

was a taste of Mogan David wine mixed with seven up, okay? And it was disgusting. It's syrupy. It was just yes. But the second drink I did make, and it was a New Year's Eve feel for them, was Old Hermitage Kentucky Bourbon mixed with squirt,

and that felt so good going down because it burned. And I like that feeling. And so again, that's the way that happened. I look back, though, and I can remember my mom talking about, her brothers who would have been my uncle's. I never got to meet any of them because each one of the three

died drunk. Does it run in the family? In my case, I can see it. Do you know? Yeah. Now, that's interesting. How old were you when you were getting these first drinks? I think I was in grade school, just young.

I mean, I didn't, and it was only a sip here and there. Yeah. The thinking, though, behind everything was I always wanted more. Ever since, from the very first taste, I could keep remembering, it seemed like I always wanted more to drink. So, yeah, it was one of those things that just happened with me. Yeah. No, I hear you on that. It's a, it's a pretty common story for people. I mean, I've only heard the stories on the podcast about those at some point in their life struggle with alcohol. I haven't really heard because of just the context of the podcast, but I've always wondered in a sense what it's like for other people

who don't end up struggling with alcohol when they first get into it. Do they have that idea of more? Is it just, yeah, that's gross, like never again, or some people they might get into it their first time? I'm just always curious about that. But that seems to be a common trend, right? When we get started, we experience something or we have this illusion that we experience something.

we're able to escape a little bit, because I don't even know if having a couple sips, if we're really getting a full hit, right? But what the idea that we want more is something's been triggered there and it running in the family too is, I mean, I think that's, I'm trying to think back here less, but I mean, that's a story.

So many people share that story, right? That there's some linkage in the family tree about people struggling with it. Where do you go from here? What does high school and stuff look like for you? School was a struggle for me. All the way through, I get by. I could pass, but it was always a struggle for me.

It just seemed, again, it was one of those things that I just felt, again, I didn't feel fit in here. Things were just, why isn't it coming easy? My brother, on the other hand, heck, he was a perfect student. He was getting A's, B's. Now, I was struggling to keep a, D, you know, season D's for me. That was a bit of a struggle.

Again, trying to fit in with the crowd. There's only for one brief period of time I actually did fit in. And it was because I tried out for track and I set the school record for a 50-yard dash. And man, I was the big dude on campus. of a sudden, I was the major shit. Everybody wanted to know me. And then I tried out for footballer next year, and I went to a city track me that year, set a record there.

And the kid I beat, next year when we played football, it was flag football. That kid took me out going after my knee. So again, I fell into that. Nobody wants me again. I'm a nobody. Again, I wasn't until I got into high school and got around some of those same type of people. I had a buddy of mine who had an older brother would get us some beer. And Friday night football or Friday night basketball game, we'd load up my car and we'd go to our favorite spot and do our drinking.

Our favorite spot was the cemetery. Nobody was going to look for a bunch of underage kids in a cemetery at night. We got away with it. And the funny thing was, I would drink more than they did, but I was the only one sober enough to drive them home. So it was like there was something different. So yeah, that little game played all the way through. And again, I did manage to graduate high school.

First time my parents ever said anything about that. about being proud of me was after I walked and then my dad and my mom both said, I was the first person in the families to walk across the stage to get a diploma. Wow. So that's the first time I ever heard that they were proud of me. Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah. How did that impact you though if that's the first time?

Like, that's good that they were proud of you for that accomplishment. Was it upsetting that maybe they waited until you were 18 to? It made me feel good in some respects. And then again, it made me feel bad because they didn't have that opportunity. They were in a position in their life that they had to quit school, drop out of school, and go to work, way back, man. And my mom especially, it was extremely tough with her. Because she lost her mom early. She was maybe 14 or 15 years old.

And she had to step up into being the mom doing the cook and the cleaning on soap. And so, yeah, that aspect of her life, I kind of felt sorry for them. And then again, it was like I made them proud at doing something. So all of a sudden, in my mind, Hey, that's a reason to celebrate. Another excuse, go get drunk.

It was that simple for me. Always. Yeah. I mean, looking back, yeah, hindsight's usually 20-20, right, when we look back. But at the time, I mean, when I looked back and when I first started, I mean, I wouldn't say it was a problem to begin with. I mean, it probably, it looked different than my peers for sure. But I mean, it was a way to hang out with people without it. I wasn't really a part of anything.

And then when I involved alcohol, then I was able to become part of a social circle. And it felt good to be part of people and be a part of something and have people interested in hanging out. Well, you mean, looking back, it was what it was. And it was probably a superficial connection we had with a lot of my peers. Danny revolved around the party and in the next one. But it felt good. I'm listening to your story, too, about being a loner, having a third. tough time creating those connections. When you're drinking, are you able to lean into those

connections and build connections and feel like you're part of something? Oh, yeah. Yeah. The bar, when I started going to bars, got the legal age and started going into the bars and drinking. Alcohol had taken those square edges off and I started to be able to fit into that peg. I started to feel like everything was going now and it took a little bit of alcohol to do it. And I could remember there was fun. I could remember that period

where I could walk away and go home and everything was okay except that nagging thought in the back of my mind of I still wanted more but I could go away. I could walk away from it for a while. And then there's sort of being where I wasn't walking away. It was closing the bar

every night. I can remember the progressions and so on and so forth. The funny thing is I never had got a DUI and I only got stopped twice and both times was by cops that I drank with at the bar and they would follow me home, make sure I got home, Okay. And that was it. Story about that, though, it was one night was one of the guys. He pulled me over, followed me home, and waited until I walked inside the house before he left. And then it came back by a couple of times to make sure the car is still there that I didn't sneak back out. Later at night, he gets off work and comes into the bar, and there I am.

And he said, wait a minute, I told you to put the car, how did you get back up here? I said, I rode my motorcycle. And he sat there and he said, you're not riding at home. I'm taking you home after we're done. And he did. But it had gotten to that point again where, and I don't know, I can't give you an exact day. But somewhere along the lines of I walked into that bar and I said, I wanted a drink. And the next day I walked in that bar and I said, I need a drink.

When it became a need, a necessity, that's when I think I crossed that line and went full-blown alcoholic. I mean, and it didn't take me long, boy, I'll tell you what, when I crossed that line, it did not take very long. And then it started to become that deal of not every time I drank, you know, it didn't time I drank, did I get in trouble? But every time I got in trouble was the direct result of my drinking. Yeah, I hear you on that. It's so interesting how with you, you mentioned, and I was talking to one of my second uncles too about the way it used to go with drinking

and driving and stuff. And yeah, that's a common trend about that was the thing, is to follow you home. It's interesting now how things have drastically changed in a much better direction to keep things safe. But it's a... Yes, it was never really seen as maybe as dangerous as it was back then. But it's interesting you bring up that a line, right, that gets crossed because I've been talking with a few guests on the show to say, hey, is there any way that we can, do we have any idea when that happens or what the heck is going on? What does that look like, right?

And most people, I think everybody pretty much shares the same story as you, right? We don't know. And that's why I think for people right now who might not have a quote unquote, drinking problem right now. I think all of us were there once one time, right? Where there was fun. It was we could shut it down. Even though we didn't want to, I can relate to 100% that little voice, right? But I had maybe the discipline in the beginning, right? I had to work the next day. I could, even though I wanted more, there was a point in time where I could just say, enough was enough. It sucked. I didn't really enjoy it, but I was able to do it. And then, yeah,

things flipped over and then it was that one more one more ah it's fine if as long as i get to bed by one i'll be good by seven one more one more you know what i mean then you have that one more that itch you got to scratch over and over again and sometimes i was still able to be responsible and maybe shut things down but a lot of the times i wasn't in it i don't know that honestly fascinates me about that change that takes place and i mean i think it's got a lot to do with i mean the build of alcohol is it's an addictive substance and the longer you stick around, then the more chances are that you'll get kind of pulled in, right? That's really what it is at the end of the day. I know they dress it up, right? Les, they dress it up to look like this fancy, enjoyable,

cool thing. Everybody's having fun in the commercials and the billboards. It's attractive people doing it. Dress it up to this big cool thing. And when that switch takes place, it's not fun anymore. So you spent a lot of your time in bars. That was kind of your thing is to go and hang out of bar after. Were you working after high school? First off, I was a meat cutter. Well, there's a lot of drinking as a meat cutter. So it was an accepted deal. And then I lost my job and I had to take a job as a building cabinets, custom cabinets. And so I did that for a little while, and then eventually it worked into where I became an auto mechanic, and God knows mechanics drink. I mean, God.

But those are my job deals. When I can remember, I would like to talk about this in respect of, I had gotten to that point where in my drinking, I had become a blackout drinker, too. And sometimes I come out of a blackout and not know how I left the bar. And one instance, for a matter of fact, that comes to mind all the time with me is I was doing 120 miles and over on that motorcycle where I came to, came out of a blackout. I had that baby cranked and I looked down at the spenometer doing over 120

I looked over to tack I wasn't anywhere close to yellow let alone the red line and I remember backing off the throttle and slowing the thing down and I'm on a two-lane highway all of a sudden over the hill

ahead comes a Wyoming Highway Patrol so you tell me God wasn't looking out after this fool and drunk, I'm sorry. He saved my life there. However, I did a normal, what I thought was a normal thing. That motorcycle's going to kill me, so I sold that motorcycle. It had nothing to do with the alcohol.

Alcohol was not the problem. It was the motorcycle. It was a problem. Finding something else that was the problem that made me drink the way I did and so on and so forth. I got so bad that I can guarantee you the last two years of my drinking. I'll bet you I can count on one hand how many sober days I and I would have digits left over. My day had got, I'd met my wife at that time. My day had gotten to the point where I would wake up in the morning and reach down beside the bed,

grab the beer that I sat there the night before and take a sway. off of that thing, said I could get up to go to the bathroom. That's how my day started. Going back, finishing that beer so I could get dressed to get ready to go to work, out to the kitchen. Thankfully, we had a coffee maker that was that set up and the auto maker, if it would make a pot of coffee in the morning. And the first cup of coffee was usually, I would tell you,

I'd have at least two double shots. Or maybe some days it would be half of that first cup of coffee was whiskey before I could get going. And just remembering that fumbling around and thinking, man, I can hardly wait until lunchtime so I can get out to the truck and reach under the seat and grab the bottle and take a shot off that damn thing so I could make it through the rest of the day to quitting time. and it had become an evil thing, evil necessity for me to have to drink or to work. I had to work so I could supply my fun time. Yeah, wow. How do you feel going through any of that if there are windows for you to feel or to think? How are you thinking about the situation that you're in?

What do you think about that? As you're going through it, I mean, you wake up in the morning, you grab a swing of that beer. I mean, are you thinking, you know, this is it? Or how did I end up here? Or how am I going to get out of this? I'll be honest with you. I had brief periods where, again, you know, I could, I would have that thought. How did I get myself into this again?

I could remember back when I was going to the bar that my intention was just to go there, have two drinks by happy hour drinks, and then I was going to go home. But then it would be a case of somebody buy me a drink. Then you got a reciprocate. And before you know it, the lights are coming on, its last call. And I'm sitting here, and I'm thinking to myself,

how did this happen again? And then I'll tell you what the real deal was a night. We were sitting at home. I was doing my drinking at home like I always did. And my wife was pregnant. And she sat there and she looked at me. She says, says, this how you want your kids to remember you as the drunk who's passed out

with beer cans all over the place. And all of a sudden it was like, it woke me up. Dude, I really want to do this. And I had to say no to myself. And I got this overwhelming. feeling come over me of you have to stop and you have to stop now and i remember walking over and taking that drink and dumping it down that sink and my wife over behind me and she sit there and she says you really don't mean that i don't think you really mean that i reached over and grabbed of a bottle

that i had jack daniel's black label i still have some good taste when i was at the end of my drink I took the pour out of that bottle and I dumped the rest of that fifth down the sink. And I walked back, I set myself down, I uttered the words, the most honest words that I ever uttered in my life is, I can't do this alone. I've got to have help. As luck would have it, she called our bartender friend where we got, the bartender was the one we got married at her house. And she knew a lot about my drinking too.

She had a friend who was in AA, and that's where I got started. And that's where I've continued to be yet today, along with being able to be enhanced with all this new technology like the podcast and our sober on Instagram, the sober family that we've got. I mean, it's sometimes you're kind of get caught up in this little world of just some of us.

Whereas you look around and it's, man, this thing is everywhere. I mean, last night, the Zoom meeting, you know, that we had, you know, the sober buddy Zoom meeting we had. I mean, from everywhere, you know, it's like, man, you know, it is so overwhelming that these things are happening so much and so good. for us today. Back then, we didn't have these fancy things we have here. And I'm grateful in that respect because none of my stupidity was ever recorded.

That's a big bonus, Les. Give us a time frame here. So when did all of this come about? When was it that night? When did that night take place? That night was July 29, 1981. My silver date, I used July 30th because it's a first. day that I did not have any alcohol.

And it was the toughest day in my life. I've got to say my wife's insurance policy would not cover spouse for alcohol abuse, alcohol treatment. They would cover the employee, but not any family members. And treatment was out of the question because we just didn't have money. And, I mean, I drank most of that money up. So it was a case of that day I remember I had the shakes. And I had the shakes for two weeks, two weeks, man.

I couldn't take a full cup of coffee and get it to my mouth without spelling. And waking up during the night and having to turn a light on because I think I'm seeing things crawling out of the wood of the trailer that we were living in. I'm thinking, oh, my God, am I ever going to get through this? But, yeah, I mean, I remember the guy picked me up. And the first thought went through my mind was he's got to be as one of the counselors of the program because he was driving an immaculate 65 Chevy Ford F-100 pickup. It was immaculate. I knew it couldn't be an alcoholic because I knew an alcoholic.

because I knew an alcoholic's car. It's long and then gets that way by parking at high speed. You know what I mean? And he looked like those normal people, aren't it? And so we went to the meeting. I walked in that meeting, and those people were talking that night to me, and they were telling me their stories.

And I was going around the room, I was listening to their stories, and it was so paralleled. to mine. However, I was playing the game. I'm too young to be an alcoholic. I know what an alcoholic is. He's an old, and he scribbled up, and he shakes,

and he's got yellow tennis shoes, and a rusty zipper, and a bottle out of a bag, you can see the top of the bottle out of the bag. That wasn't alcoholic. I wasn't dead. Neither were any of these people, but they kept talking about that.

And they went a lot further. In my mind, I'm going, I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. Maybe I'm not an alcoholic. I had one guy across the table, sit there and said,

you may be thinking that you didn't do that. All you got to do is put the word yet behind it. And he took that final excuse away from me. There was one little gal there who had two weeks of sobriety and I could believe her. And I want to know,

how many hell did you stay sober for two weeks? Because I know all these other people or lying through their IT. There ain't no way they could stay sober a year or five years. And this one old guy that was sitting over in the corner, he was the only one in the whole place. It looked like he was an alcoholic because he was old and he shriveled up, kind of like me.

But he shook when he was trying to light his cigar. And I'm like, there's your alcoholic. He claimed to be sober for 33 years, that first meeting. I'm like, there's the biggest lying person in the room. My mind said something a lot nastier. I'm trying to keep it clean for the podcast. But again, that little girl, how did she stay sober for two weeks? And for some reason, when we walked out of that meeting,

I walked out with about that much hope that maybe this thing will work for me. It has worked from that first meeting. I listened to those people and I watched those people and took some of the suggestions that they gave me. Some of the suggestions I tried didn't work out so well, but most of the suggestions they gave me were good and they worked. And again, for me, that worked. I know there's a lot of people out here in their community that have tried AA and it didn't work for them. I mean, that's cool. Whatever is working is what you need to be concentrating on.

If it's keeping you sober, that's the important thing. We can't be judging everybody about what sobriety is and this and that. You can't do that, man. I mean, we're all in the same storm. I put it that way. People will say we're in the same boat, and I don't believe that. Some of us are in yachts. Some of us are in canoes.

Some of us don't even have a boat, but we do have a hand to reach out and grab a hold and help that person into your boat. So the bottom line is that's the thing, is the help of everybody that I found. I hear some of these people, and I want to reiterate something, go back just a little bit. There was this one guy who always cut the newcomers down at these meetings that I would go to. And one day he was sitting there and he looked at me, he said, kid, I probably spilled more booze than you ever drank. And my response was, if you had drank it instead of spilled it, you'd have gotten here a lot quicker.

And it shut him up and I gained his respect that night because he realized he wasn't going to run over this kid. But the bottom line was, again, is listening to the parallels and so and so forth. You mentioned there's something earlier on, and I wanted to point out or take a deal that I cannot get my mind around and understand the mind of a normal drinker. Okay. My wife, she drank heavy for a while, but when she got pregnant, she quit, right? all the time she was nursing kids she wouldn't drink i'm like what that can make any sense and this was even after i had sobered up okay i mean my kids have never had to see her dad drink which is unfortunate

she was the type of a person that would take a glass of wine and start cooking dinner and she'd sip on the wine while she's cooking dinner and she'd just sip on the wine while we're eating dinner and she'd sip on that same glass of wine while we're watching TV. I'm like, the alcohol is evaporating faster than you're drinking. What the hell are you doing? That's my thinking. And she'd have this much in the bottom of that can blast and put it in the sink at night, ready to go to bed. I'm like, what? I don't understand that. I cannot understand that. But the The bottom line was life today is so much different than it was back then. I look at it and some people I think probably think I'm going little on the crazy side.

I can see beauty and a blade of grass. This is one of my favorite times of the year watching the colors change, how beautiful colors are. And it was also one of my wife's favorite times of the year. I have gone through a lot of tests in my sobriety. And the biggest test I went through was in 2003. My wife had a massive stroke and I lost her. But, I mean, there was a period where I was at the hospital and I kept her on life support and I kept praying,

God perform a miracle for me and bring her back. And the prognosis just kept getting worse and worse every time they talk to us. And finally, I had to sit there and unplug, have her unplugged. Within 30 minutes, she was gone. But I walked out of the room. And there was a courtyard mind. The first thought that went through this mind of mine was,

I know how to get rid of this pain. I just need to get knee-crawling lap like a drunk. And I know there's going to be people don't believe this, but I heard a voice from outside of me say, you can't do that. You have a bitter responsibility. My mind went immediately to, yeah, I got my kids. It hurt. It was so painful. I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry in front of kids. I had to be strong for them. I had to be there for them. I had to hold them, let them cry and everything, until I could be by myself in the bedroom, then I could cry just like they did.

I also will acknowledge there was the anger to God, and that anger was along the lines of, how dare you take away the one thing in life I valued more than my life itself? How dare you do that to me? And realizing, as I've worked through everything, realizing down the road here now, There are some people who were in our lives for a period of time,

and God removes them from your life when they are no longer meant to be on your spiritual path. And I think he knew that was the only way and I was going to leave that woman. So the bottom line was, I could hold myself together in front of the people pretty good. Until we got to the funeral out in Cheyenne Wyoming, had her cremated, and we were at the funeral,

and we get our little eulogy talks and stuff like that. And it was a combination of, I had them play Amazing Grace on the bagpipes at the end. Then the last song they played was to dance because that's what the kids wanted my kids. They walked over and handed me a folded American flag because my wife was in the armed services. And I lost it.

I had to have help getting up and walking out of the funeral hall because reality hit me that she was not coming back. And all of a sudden, I had this other feeling. A person that I had known in a way back then before we left Cheyenne happened to be at that funeral. She showed up and she walked over to me. And she said, I have somebody I would like you to talk. And all of a sudden, it dawned on me that maybe this is what I need to do. I need to tell people there is nothing you can go through that can make you drink except

you. Yeah, that's so powerful, Les. Thank you for sharing all that, too, by the way, for the journey, right? Because, yeah, sometimes we're under the impression that we take away the drinking and that our life just boom, it explodes, right? But the reality is that we still have to live life on life's terms and there's ups and downs. There's all arounds and there's a lot of pain and to go through it all sober can be extremely overwhelming at times, especially when we are so used to numbing and avoiding everything.

So how long has it been? How many years is this? Forty-42 years. I don't have the actual count. That's okay. You don't mean we- How many days that is. But, I mean, it's been a journey.

And it's been a wonderful journey. I've had a lot of things that could have happened with me that, again, I've had a lot of fun, though, in this sobriety. I mean, and all of the, going through all the firsts, I mean, the very first time I went fishing. Silver. Being able to remember that I actually was able to reel that fish in. Yeah. Right?

Okay. Going to my first college football game over in Laramie, Wyoming, and realizing that they did play four quarters of football, because I never remembered the second half. Yeah. Being able to have the fortune of taking my grandkids with their dad to a stock car race at Kansas Speedway and watching the NASCAR race with them, their first one, having that.

experience. I mean, there's all of those beautiful things that have happened. And so I look at life as it is a bed of roses. Roses have their thorns. Sometimes it's going to hurt. And sometimes it's going to be beautiful. And if you can look for the beauty, even in the hurt, it becomes a case of looking at why is it hurting? What are you trying to teach me? What am I? What am I? trying to be taught here. Look at it in that respect. It's a lesson being taught. I'm trying to learn something here. I enjoy delight. Incredible. You've hung around this long. I've got two questions I'd like to ask less before we wrap things up here. And your whole story's been incredible. And like I said before, I really appreciate you sharing it. After 42 years of sobriety, why do you choose to still

stick around? Because we might think, some might think, or maybe have that idea. I got some figured out here. I'm good. Why do you choose to stick around and still be part of this community? Give people hope. Give people hope that this thing will work. You can stay sober a long time. You don't have to drink again. I think that's probably one of the biggest things that drives me. And in fact, again, I am enjoying my life. Yeah, no, love that. And it definitely does, right? When people hear that's possible, it's even like when you went to that. that first meeting, right? It's unbelievable in a sense when you're first starting.

It's hard to wrap your head around it when you're first starting out on this journey that it's possible. Like you don't drink, you don't do this. And it's, yeah, that's a true reality. Look less. If somebody's listening to the show, this episode, they're struggling to get or stay sober. What would you say to him? It's one day.

Just today. Just today. Don't worry about tomorrow. Don't worry about yesterday. You think about today. And if you can't think about the whole day, think about the next hour, whatever it's going to take. The only way you can amass this amount of time like I have is there's two things, two absolutes.

You don't drink and you don't die. And if you don't do either one of them, you've got it. But you just got to remind yourself that life is worth living. You don't have to take that drink there and you don't have to. Yeah, no incredible. Thank you so much, Les. Is there anything else you want to share before we sign off? I always entered my speeches at every meeting, that birthday meeting that I do with a deal,

but I didn't bring it with me. It's called the whole. And part of it is a little story about an alcoholic. And he's in his hole and a priest comes by and he prays for him. He gives him a Bible. The guy's thankful, but he's still stuck in a hole, right? And a psychiatrist comes by and he talks to him. He's, what, how'd you get there?

Did your mom put you there? And tell me about your life. It'll alleviate the pain. And he talks, the psychiatrist says, they've got to do. go, but I'll be back next week. Alcoholic kind of feels a little bit better, but he's still stuck in the hole, right? So an alcoholic comes by and he hears him, help me, help me, help me. The alcoholic jumps in the hole with him. And the guy goes, what are you thinking? Now we're both down here. The alcoholic turns and looks at him and he says, that's okay. I've been here. I know the way out.

That's powerful. Awesome. Thank you so much less for sharing us. and thank you for sharing on the show. Thank you again, Brad. It's been a pleasure. Well, there it is. Another episode. Thank you, Les. Thank you, Austin,

for jumping on here and sharing some of your stories. And thank you to all of you, the listener. You all truly make this show possible. We're at, what, 1007, 108, maybe 110 episodes in just over a year, which is incredible. You guys keep listening. and I'll keep recording and I'll see you on the next one.