Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Mary was addicted to alcohol and drugs for years and this is how she found a way out.

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

In this week's episode, we have Mary, who started drinking alcohol, smoking weed, and cigarettes at 13 years old. It began to be a significant part of her teenage years, but the consequences would take some time to catch up. Everything really picked up when she left for college as freedom and access increased. At 20 years old, Mary found herself in rehab for the first time but was not so sure about committing to a life without alcohol. Things escalated with her addiction to drugs and alcohol after her first treatment stay, and moderation felt impossible. This is Mary's story on the Sober Motivation Podcast." -------------- Follow Mary On Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/sunandmoon.soberliving/ Follow Sober Motivation on IG here: https://www.instagram.com/sobermotivation/ Download the SoberBuddy App: https://soberbuddy.app.link/motivation More information on SoberLink: www.soberlink.com/recover

Welcome to Season 3 of the Subur Motivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week as my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. In this week's episode, we have Mary, who started drinking alcohol, smoking weed and smoking cigarettes at 13 years old. It began to be a significant part of her teenage years, but the consequences would take

some time to catch up. Everything really picked up when she left. left for college as freedom and access increased. At 20 years old, Mary found herself in rehab for the first time, but was not so sure about committing to a life without alcohol. Things escalated with her addiction to drugs and alcohol after her first treatment stay, in moderation felt impossible. This is Mary's story on the sober motivation podcast.

How's it going, everyone, Brad here, your host of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Thank you so much for the continued support. It is been incredible. Look, we've got another incredible story, but before we jump into it, I want to give a big shout out to our friends over at Sober Buddy. Sober Buddy is a mobile platform, an app that helps you get and stay connected to other people that are on the same journey. Download the app and join today. We host over 10 live support groups per week, plus the members of the community have blown me away with their own meetups that they host on the weekends to stay connected with each other. and further their recovery journey.

It's been truly incredible. The groups are growing. We have new members joining every day, and I would love to see you in one or all three of the groups that I host per week. So grab the sober buddy app today, and I'll see you over there. Getting sober is a lifestyle change, and sometimes a little technology can help. Imagine a breathalyzer that works like a habit tracker for sobriety.

Soberlink helps you replace bad habits with healthy ones. Weighing less than a pound and as compact, as a sunglasses case, Soberlink devices have a built-in facial recognition, tamper detection, and advanced reporting, which is just another way of saying it'll keep you honest. On top of all that, results are sent instantly to loved ones to help you stay accountable. Go after your goals. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device. If you're loving the show, do me a huge favor.

head over to the platform where you listen, Spotify or Apple, and drop a review and let everybody know that you love the show. Now let's get to it. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got my friend Mary with us. Mary, how are you? I'm doing great, Brad. It's so nice to connect again.

I know. It was a pleasure being on your show and everything. Yeah, thanks for having me on. As you know, I'm such a fan of what you've created with Sober Motivation, and you're just making such an incredible impact. So appreciate the opportunity to be here. Of course. And so happy to have you be a part of it.

How we start every show, Mary, is with the same question. What was it like for you growing up? I'm very grateful for my childhood. I grew up in the suburbs outside of Chicago with four siblings, and we were always very close. Our friends got along great, too. So our house was kind of like the hangout house. And, you know, I started off school young.

I was pushed ahead. And I think with that came this kind of ex-executive. of like you don't get pushed ahead to fall behind. And so there was a lot of pressure academically to succeed. And I definitely put a lot of pressure on myself too. You know, with school and also I was on the diving team. It was interesting because there was that side of my personality, but there was also a side of my personality that was pretty defiant and liked to do things that I wasn't supposed to do. And so that led me into drinking and experimenting with marijuana and smoking cigarettes when I was about 13. I remember my friends and I would like sneak out behind the garage behind my house and crawl out into the roof from my bedroom window just so we could smoke cigarettes and feel like we were doing something bad.

And that was really the focus of my social life was around on the weekends, not on the school nights, but it was around finding places we could go to drink, you know, steal alcohol from our parents' liquor cabinet, hotbox my friend's minivan. We were smoking weed at the beach, you know, hiding out in the trees. And I really felt like I got through that experience leading into high school pretty unscathed in the sense that I never had any major consequences. Like I had situations where I had been at parties that were broken up by the police or I had friends that were getting DUIs. But I never got in that kind of trouble myself. And so I never really saw myself as having a problem. I just thought I'm doing what high schoolers do. Another part of my story that I actually haven't spoken about this on a podcast, but I did share.

this when I was speaking recently, sharing my story at a treatment center. And I know this is something that a lot of people in recovery from substances can relate to. My senior year of high school, I went through a period of pretty extreme dieting. And it was the first time that I remembered feeling like my mind had been hijacked. It started with this intention of wanting to lose weight. And I remember being insecure and unhappy with my body as long as I could remember having a body, you know, as that as that sounds. I remember some really cutting comments when I was a young kid. I had this tough girl persona. Like I would never let anyone believe that they hurt my feelings or offended me with that, but it was like burned into my psyche. And so my solution with this

very extreme personality that I had was to just stop eating or eat as little as I possibly could. And so I started really restricting. And it started with positive reinforcement and feeling more confident. And then I remember crossing this threshold where I knew I was getting too thin and I could see that the looks were starting to be more of concern. Like my high school advisor pulled me out and asked me what was going on. And I remember my parents really getting on my case about it, but I was so defensive and really pushing people away because I felt like I had control, which is the illusion of control. You don't have control if you can't get yourself to eat a proper meal. But I was so afraid. And that fear and that feeling of disconnection from myself, there's really a lot of commonality, which I

put together later with addiction, my addiction to drugs and alcohol. But what ended up happening was I got to a point where my hair started thinning, which was a blessing in disguise. I didn't think of it at the time. And it wasn't enough for other people to notice, but I remember brushing my hair. And, you know, there's a normal amount that might come out in the brush, but it was significant. And I was like, holy shit, like what's going on? I was terrified. And so it's never diagnosed with an eating disorder, but that was enough for me to have like a moment of awakening where I was like, I need to course correct. And I was so resistant to therapy, but I went to my parents for help. And I think I agreed to go to maybe one or two sessions of therapy, but I was able to

get it under control. And, you know, I think that physically I looked healthy again sooner, but there was also the mental repercussions that were pretty long lasting. And by the time I finished high school, you know, it was crazy. I thought if I got skinny, then that will be. be my answer to everything. Like, I'll be confident. I will be more secure around boys. I'll be running around in my bathing suit in the summer. And it couldn't have been further from the truth. When I got to that point at my thinnest, up until that point, I had never been so insecure, so anxious, so desperate to just hide out and have no one look at me. And so, yeah, by the time I finished high school, I was just so ready to start fresh and to start over. I was getting healthier again.

and I was still going out and drinking and partying during that time. My friends and I had gotten sick of the house parties, so we had fake IDs and we were going out in the bars in Chicago. But all I could think about, I was already committed to going away to school at the University of Colorado in Boulder, and all I could think about was like counting down the days until I could just be in another state and start fresh. And yeah, so it wasn't until I went away to school

that my substance use really started to pick up and become more self-destructive. Wow, Mary. A lot to unpack there. Yeah. I mean, aside from the eating disorder type behavior, it sounds like the other partying and stuff. Like it was normal teenage stuff at the time, like smoking weed, drinking and stuff. I mean, a lot of teenagers that are doing it with you, right? Yeah.

So, I mean, I think back at that time and nothing stood out about me as raising a major red flag. It was so normalized everyone. I mean, the parents, the kids, the high school partying. It was just kind of an accepted thing that you do in high school, you know? I remember there was even this big beer pong tournament, which people would play and have teams. And it was kind of like right of passage in our high school. And so, yeah, I mean, it was just very much what you do when you're that age. That's how I saw it at least.

Yeah. Did you win the beer pong tournament? No, I was not good. I was not. I had like, it's so funny because my brothers were incredible athletes and very talented. And I had very poor coordination and probably the drinking didn't have. help. So, so yeah, no, I have nothing to brag about there. No, okay. But you weren't to sports, though, diving, right? Was that still a thing towards the end of high school? I was. Yeah, that was my

sport. And it's so funny because it's a really uncommon sport, but I was lucky that I went to a high school that was pretty big. And so a lot of the teams we competed against maybe had one or two divers, but we had a pretty sizable team. And our coach was a former Olympian, Bruce Kimball. And so just an incredible opportunity to train with him and just a really great guy. So yeah, that was definitely a highlight for me in high school. Yeah, wow, that's cool. So did your folks ever pick up on any of the partying or anything like that? Oh, definitely. Yeah, I mean, when it first started, especially like early on, you know, that summer after eighth grade, I remember at one point it was my parents and my two best friends' parents, like sat down. We like made fun of it at the time because we felt like it was some sort of

intervention and they were taking things way too seriously and they were being really dramatic and, you know, we were just young kids thinking we knew everything. And yeah, it came up a lot. And I think part of the reason that I never got arrested or things got too bad because I was always very aware of what the consequences that that would be with my parents. So I had that in the back of my head always. And I think that kept me a little more tame. Yeah. So what happened with the intervention. Did they say slow down or did they say no, like no more of this? You know, it was after we had been smoking at the beach and a friend of mine had fallen down this steep slope and it wasn't part of a path. So it wasn't very accessible. And so it was really scary.

And we were super young and she had been drinking a lot. So they were just like, what's going on? If you were to get caught, first of all, doing that, you would be arrested because you're in a public place and you're 13 and 14 years old, she could have been seriously injured. I mean, there were all these things. So they were just addressing these very real concerns. Gotcha. Okay. So after high school, you're set out to go to college. You're going to restart everything here, right? Reinvent yourself and things are going to be great. So you end up in Colorado for school? Yeah. So I went to see you in Boulder. And, you know, I actually went with one of my best friends in high school. And her older sister went there. So it's not like I was like completely rebuilt.

my identity, but I definitely felt like I was turning a new page. And I had the time of my life, my freshman year, I really just felt like it was the best thing that could ever happen to me. I moved into the dorms, met great friends. I was someone who could go out every single night of the week if people would go out with me. And for the first time, that was a possibility, whether it was a school night or a weekend, you know, there was always someone who wanted to do that. And during that time, I also was introduced to Adderall and Cocaine and Molly. and ecstasy. And so, you know, for me, those were the miracle drugs because I had to continue to uphold certain grades to keep my parents happy. And so I was never going to be too hungover to

be able to do work during finals week because I could take Adderall. I could take Adderall to go out and stay out later at night. Otherwise, it was cocaine. I mean, once I discovered that, I feel like I developed this spidey sense where like I'd be in a party and I would just kind of know which room it was happening in. And I got into Molly and Ecstasy when the cocaine wasn't exciting enough just to take it up another level. And after I started getting into those kind of drugs, I could drink a lot more. That's when I started to really black out. I would say that's when things got a lot darker because that's when I started to see when I was drinking so much that I was blacking out, I was starting to act out of character. And I was waking up with this anxiety of like,

what did I do? What did I say? Who saw me? I remember. I was less comfortable walking around on campus, running into people, feeling like I really embarrassed myself. So, you know, that carried on for a few years. And there were a lot of scares that happened along the way. Like, I remember I was traveling with my family and I'd be in foreign countries and be so drunk and blacked out that I passed out in a public space, like in Jamaica or Costa Rica. And I at one point accidentally snorted a huge line of ketamine thinking it was cocaine, which was another like really terrifying moment, but not enough for me to change my behavior. And it was one particular day, my junior year. And even though I didn't get sober till years later, I still kind of

think of this as my rock bottom. I remember I woke up and I woke up in the afternoon and I don't even know it was in my system because I was like a rock until I woke up. But I woke up with this immediate big recollection of earlier parts of the night. And as I started to piece things together, it was so overwhelming and it was so far beyond my capacity of what I felt like I could cope with. And it was just like the buildup of the weeks leading up to that, like blacking out and so much self-destruction and harming my relationships and just feeling so out of control that I picked up the phone and I called my mom and I was like, please get me out of here. Please get me out of Boulder. I need to get home. I need to get on a flight. And she just immediately like snapped into gear. I mean, she had seen the way I was behaving and had expressed her concerns. And so, So next thing you know, I'm on a flight home and I'm in rehab. I'm an outpatient treatment at Hazleton staying with my parents in Chicago. And I had no awareness of recovery of the 12 steps, of sobriety, like 20 years old getting sober for life. That was like an immediate no. I had no one modeling that for me at the time. I just shut that idea out like the second I got there.

And it's so incredible because despite how awful I felt that morning when I woke up that afternoon, a few days had passed. And I got it in my head like, I'll be okay. I can work this out. And so I went through treatment already deciding that there was no way I could possibly be sober for the rest of my life. And so I was pretty careful with how much I disclosed in group therapy and to the therapist because I knew that if I shared everything, then he would probably not recommend that I go back to this environment where my addiction really took hold. So on the one hand, I did go back to school and I started immediately drinking and using drugs not too long after. But I also won't say that that was totally time wasted. The seeds were planted. I started developing a daily yoga practice at that time. Not daily yet. I was daily when I was home, but it was regular when I got back to school. And so I went back to school and I went back with the intention of like, I'll just drink beer.

I'll moderate. I still felt pretty insecure, like kind of like I was walking back. with my tail between my legs. I had done some damage at that point. So yeah, the drinking and drug used started to pick up again. And I finished out school. I moved back to Chicago. And I got a job working at a digital advertising agency pretty soon after I graduated. And, you know, the crazy thing is I remained pretty high functioning in my addiction. But there's this saying, which you might have heard. I heard years later in recovery, which is there's nothing worse than a mindful of AA and a belly full of booze. And you could replace that with anything. Like, there's nothing

worse than a mindful of recovery while you're actively using substances because I had already been to treatment. And I had heard myself and other people's stories. I had worked a program. I knew that I was someone who struggles with addiction. And I knew that alcohol and drugs had no place in my life. And so every time I was going back to them, there was just so much shame. And that shame was fueling my behavior. So I was in this vicious cycle. And so I go back to Chicago And at that time, a lot of the people who were maybe previously more into parting and stuff, they were getting their lives together and they were moving on. And it wasn't really normal anymore to do cocaine on a Wednesday night or a Sunday when you're day drinking all day.

And so I started doing it in secrecy on my own. I had a drug dealer in Chicago who would deliver. And so I would be sneaking around. Like sometimes I'd be sneaking out of my apartment to meet him. And eventually I'd be at work dinners or work functions that got really boozy. And next thing you know, I'm connecting with him. And I'm going in the bathroom and doing my own bumps. And that brought up so much kind of shame and also paranoia that I was going to get caught. And then that progressed to me. Some of those nights I would be out drinking and I would be doing drugs and secrecy.

And I would end up alone in my apartment finishing off the bag by myself. And I'd have these moments where I'm high on cocaine and I'm sitting there with myself. Like, what is the matter with you? You know, like there's no hiding from yourself. in those moments. And I went through this a few weeks where I was just confessing to people around me. Like I remember I woke up my friend in the middle of the night who was my roommate and I just like spilled my guts to her and was like telling her how I was doing cocaine alone. And I showed up at my brother's apartment at 3 a.m. one time and I was just spilling it all out to him and my parents. And it was

strange because in that initial period, I wasn't asking for help and I wasn't ready, but I just needed to get these secrets out. Like I needed them to know. And there was something actually that was extremely healing in that, just to be seen in that space. I was hiding so much for so long. And eventually, you know, the last day of my using, I'd gone out one night with coworkers. It started at a work event. And then it turned into like us all going out to the bars in Chicago. I met up with a drug dealer. I was doing a lot of cocaine secretly in the bathroom, got back to my apartment, ended up doing it all night. And I decided as the sun was coming up that I would actually try to go to work the next day because it was a really important day to be at the office. And so I went into

my office. It was so early, no one was there. Like, it was around 5 a.m. And I remember sitting down in front of the screen with the Excel spreadsheets all in front of me. And I'm so out of it. Like, I'd been up all night. I've been drinking. I was still high on cocaine. And just being like, what do you think you are going to do here? You know, like hit me in that moment, how crazy of an idea that was. I'm in downtown Chicago and Michigan Avenue, you know, in my high-rise office building. And so I went back to my apartment and I remember, like, I sat down in my room and I called my mom and I didn't want to tell her over the phone. So I was like, hey, no work today. You want to meet me downtown for coffee? And I found clarity in that moment. Like, that was enough for me. You know, I had to learn that

lesson from the first time that I called for help for another three years. I had to prove it to myself that this was a problem for me. But at that point, I was like so ready. There's something that's almost like spiritual about that moment where it's like the veil is lifted. And I was just like, yeah, I surrender. I can't do this anymore. Yeah. What day was that? What was the day? That was April 27, 2013. Wow. So just over 10 years ago. That's incredible. I'm thinking too, like I haven't heard many stories about the cocaine on the podcast. That was a big part of my story. I mean, I was on everything, but I was into the cocaine heavy for a little bit. And I just think of everything I did. I mean, it was a really high and a really bad low. I mean, the depression, the anxiety, everything

afterwards, you feel like crap, is you spend a ton of money. Oh, yeah. And fast. And I can relate with you too, because I never hung out with other people who use drugs. Really, I had like one buddy. And then I had like 50 people that I would hang out with. Let me, if we're putting booze into this, We used to just booze a lot at the bars of stuff, but nobody else did cocaine, but I was always that guy who was doing the cocaine in the washrooms. And at the time, I didn't really think too, too much of it, to be honest. But when I look back, yeah, it was definitely like, there was a lot of shame attached to it to where it just couldn't get enough.

And then I always used to do it too because there was like this thing in college going around with girls that were like, if you do cocaine, you know, there's all these other benefits. But they weren't necessarily into doing drugs, but they knew I was. So it was like, yeah, we'll go in on this, whatever. And they would fall asleep. I never figured this out, Mary. These people would fall asleep and there would still be cocaine left. And they were sleeping.

So I remember doing this. And this is like so strange. But I remember pretending to fall asleep. Like, I don't know, on the dining room table or like people were on the couch. We're just everywhere at the end of the night at this party. Like, that's it. Everybody's kind of passed out. But I would just like pretend to pass out.

And then I would like get back up. And I would like wake up and like do the cocaine or else I would like get a cab home or. Something. It was like, I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I never understood how people could just shut it down. Like they were just sleeping and there was more left. I'm like, yo, y'all are crazy. That used to really confuse me too because I mean, with cocaine, the high is so strong and it wears off so quickly. Like the intensity of craving that that ignited within me. I mean, that's why I started doing it on my own because even when I was sharing with other people, I would get so frustrated and I would always feel like we didn't have enough and why don't they want to. have more now. I always felt like I was the one pushing it forward. And I was like, you know what, forget you guys. I'm just going to deal with this on my own and have my own cocaine parties after a while, which is ridiculous. But that's, yeah, I mean, I'm with you too. That's how it goes, right? And because, too, if you're on that level, like I think you and I were probably on a similar level there and we're hanging out with people aren't there. I kind of felt weird around them.

Like, what the heck's wrong with me? Like, I saw a mirror. They were holding up a mirror. And I was like, oh, gosh, like, things for me are a lot worse. And I didn't want to think about that. As I just spent like my last $100, I didn't want to think about, you know, that they can say no and I can't. That was really uncomfortable to think like that. 100%. You know, some of the things that I started to feel so much shame about was I would sometimes black out and I would wake up in the morning and people would be like, you know, you were really feigning for cocaine last night. You were acting really weird, like getting really aggressive towards people. Because as soon as I got really drunk and I started to feel out of control from the

alcohol, there was this connection that was formed with cocaine. It would like trigger something in me where like, I need to pick me up. You know, I need something that's going to bring me out of this and keep me going. And yeah, I mean, that was how it came through. It started to come through as like this really kind of aggressive craving for something. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I love it. I don't love the fact that you were doing cocaine, Mary, but I love we're talking about it because I remember the first time I did it too and it kind of solved a problem. I used to work at this restaurant. I had this buddy we'll call him johnny and we went to this party and we were going to drive home afterwards he was going to drive home and he pulled out like this dollar bill and it was all wrinkled up and i was

like i was so naive to this stuff mary honestly i had no idea what this stuff was like beyond the movie's i didn't know that this was like something yet in real life he pulled out the cocaine and he was like yeah i have a two to this and then i'll sober up to drive you know and i'm like all right cool he's like you want to try it i was like sure man whatever but didn't even do anything that first time. Those next couple days in my life where it was a strange string of events. Let's just say I had not so good relationships with friends at that time. It didn't do anything at first, but I was still interested in the possibility of an escape because it was expensive. People were doing it. I'm like, there must be something here. So I got to try it again.

And then try it again and again. And it's just like anything. Like it took a little bit of time and effort. For me personally, it took time and effort in going back a couple times. And then, yeah, was in big trouble with it. And I mean, I was doing opiates and drinking and everything too. But I remember, too, I used to work at this restaurant and it had an open kitchen. And I was really badly hooked in the cocaine and there was a chain restaurant. And I got fired from the other restaurant in another city, but I got another job at the same restaurant in another city, in a town over.

And I had the job and everything was good because I had the experience. I were like, yeah, we'll give you a shot. But I couldn't stop doing cocaine. And most kitchens had a locker room and a bathroom for like the cook. and stuff. This place didn't. You had to go out into like the customer bathroom. So long story short, I'm working these eight hours shifts. I can't stop doing cocaine. We all know how long it doesn't last for. So I'm going bang, boom, you know, back and forth. After a while, like two weeks of this, the general manager calls me, right? And I've got fired from so many jobs. I know how it

works. They call you in a little bit early for your shift. I never went for that because it was so, I mean, embarrassing would be just the gentle word. But I mean, the shift. shame was just massive because here I am, I need this job. I've got a lot of stuff going on in my life and here I am. I can't stop. I can't even stop doing this stuff while I'm trying to hold down this job that they've given me an opportunity to do and they were really patient and kind and really good with me missing days. And like they were really good understanding out that I was addicted to substances without us having that conversation. But yeah, my goodness, when was the first time that you thought to yourself, like I've got a serious problem with all of

this stuff. I mean, was it before the end? It definitely was. And it was before I went to treatment before that period when I left school, my junior year. It was when I started blacking out. And it was when I started waking up, feeling super paranoid about what I had done the night before, super anxious. And people were starting to say things to me about it. And I won't say that that was when it first started because I definitely was in denial for a long time. Like I really shut it out. And I was always looking around and the school that I went to, I mean, there was a lot of partying going on, a lot of drugs. And you could always find someone who was in a worse off position than you were. But it was when I started thinking in my mind, you've got to cut back.

You've got to stop doing this. Don't do cocaine tonight. And then next thing you know, I'm blacked out and I'm in the same place again. So it was that. And it was definitely when I started hurting people that I really care about, because that's something to me that just really felt so out of character. and something that I really, really cared about. Like, I've always valued relationships in my life with my family and my friends. Yeah.

And so that was something that I just couldn't really get around. I couldn't pretend like I didn't care. You know, when it was stuff that was really self-destructive to me, I could convince myself, whatever, everyone else is doing it. When I was hurting other people, like, that was when it really started to become apparent to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's sort of the thing with it, I think, too, is we can take ourselves kind of through

the ringer. But, like, when we bring other people into it, it hits a little bit different. And for me, it did anyway. They hit a little bit different when I saw other people around me upset, kind of by the choices that I was making. My folks, I have a younger brother too. And, you know, that sort of stuff. I'm like, man, I can see that.

So you decide you pick up the phone there, April 23rd. You get in the afternoon, you reach out to your mom again for help. I mean, how do you make it stick this time? That's one thing I'm wondering. And the second, too, is you mentioned about, like, being ready, right? Back in our conversation, you know, I'm there, I'm ready. And I've been thinking about this for weeks, this whole readiness or being ready. And the only reason I'm thinking about it is because I hear a lot of stories and my own story.

Like it didn't matter what it was or what I tried or that I went to jail or arrest or this or that. It didn't matter. Once I was ready, I woke up one day and that was it. Like, for me, it wasn't a rock bottom. It wasn't, you know what I mean? I could feel what I was ready. And I was ready to do the work and ready to just surrender. Like, I'm not just going to beat this thing in a boxing rink.

But the thing that I think is tough about it is like for some people, they never get to ready. You know, maybe that lucky or however things play out. And then for those that are still struggling, like, when do you know you're ready? I knew it. But yeah, it's a tough thing because what do you like get what I'm getting at here? Like what's the spot that people are stuck in? How can we get people ready sooner? Maybe the million dollar question.

Such a great question. And I think for me, the answer was you start before you. you're ready. You know, I started working a recovery program and I was in treatment three years before I was ready to say, okay, I'll get sober. And I really think that it's important for people to recognize that. The recovery often does begin before the day you go completely cold turkey and get sober. And I really think it's because I had those seeds planted the first time that I went to rehab and hearing people's stories, being exposed to meetings, having a practice of yoga and mindfulness, you know, meditation as more regular in my life. You know, when I went back to school,

despite the fact that most of the time I was still partying and drinking, I still made time to get to yoga. And that was like that little bit of time, that little bit of space where I could feel a little bit more okay and connected to myself and have more clarity. I think that all of that is kind of starting to untangle the knots, you know, and starting to do the work behind the scenes. And I think oftentimes we look at like that moment as if there's like this lightning bolt of like the grand awakening. And, you know, as I said, like, I do think there's something that to me feels really special about that moment where you do find clarity, but there's so much more that happens before then. And I think that's so important for people to know who don't feel

like they're ready yet, you're still going to help yourself by committing to daily practices and to joining meetings and exposing yourself to these conversations. And the same goes for people who have loved ones struggling. I think there can be a point where you start to feel so frustrated, like they're never going to get better. Nothing is working. And the truth is, you don't know it's not working. It could be working behind the scenes and, you know, it's just not showing outwardly yet. Yeah, my goodness. That's beautiful. And I can relate, the first time I went to rehab, I was 17. I went for 12 months. And the interventions in my life started much sooner than that. I was literally headed on a path where I had to find a way to escape myself and then it presented

itself in other ways when I was younger. And then when drugs and alcohol came onto the scene, You know, like some of us do. For me, it was like 18 years old. But yeah, then bang, bang, boom, right? I found my solution, quote, unquote. And then it was off to the races for me because it worked so well until it didn't work. But yeah, I put up a little meme, I don't know, a while back. And it was about that same idea.

Like, you don't even have to be ready. You just have to get started, go to a meeting, rehab, connect with good people, just do something. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. I think I shared this story a bit on the podcast before, but it's the Chinese bamboo tree. I don't think so. I thought for sure. Mary, you would have heard of the Chinese bamboo tree. Oh, is this that the bamboo show grows really quickly?

Like all of a sudden, it sprouts up. Yes. Yeah. You know it. Yeah. So it spends like five years underground waiting and you have to water it every day and take care of it just like you would anything else before it breaks the surface. Five years.

Most people just, like, I don't know if I'd have what it takes to do it for five years. But the thing is in that six year, it grows something. like, I don't know the exact thing, but like 80 feet or something. Like it just grows a ton. So then the question is always posed, does the Chinese bamboo tree grow in one year or is it six years? And the answer is, I think, obviously six years. Because you have to look after it. And I think we can draw that into your answer for your response for about people doing it before they're ready about planting the seeds and everything. So I think that's incredible. Yeah, I think we need to recognize too. and this is something that comes from the invitation to change model by Carrie Wilkins and there's

some other people involved in creating that. But this idea that like behaviors make sense, we're not using substances for no apparent reason. You know, there's a reason that we're turning to substances. We're looking for some sort of reward to get out of it. Maybe that's relief from anxiety or feelings of insecurity or, you know, wanting to feel more socially connected or whatever the thing is. So if we can start to bring in more tools, more coping, skills, even if we're not ready to make that decision for ourselves, it might just mean that the substances lose their appeal or they lose the intensity of that grip over us after a while because we have other things to choose from. Or maybe we're just a little bit more regulated in our system and we

feel a little bit more supported. And so the need for that doesn't feel as strong. Yeah, that's beautiful. What was it for you when you look back? What purpose was it serving in your life? I think it started as definitely social connection, just making me feel more confident and outgoing in social spaces, especially with people that I didn't know very well. Because I was someone that with my close friends, I was super outgoing and could really come alive. But it took me time to warm up with people. And I definitely had a lot of critical inner dialogue that was playing throughout my life. And so I think to just be able to bypass that, to feel more confident and to feel more. ease in social situations. And that's how it started. And then, you know, it was just fueling this

impossible work hard, play hard reality that I'd created for myself. I mean, that started in college when I thought that it's not possible to go out and get wasted seven nights a week and still maintain a high GPA and go to all your classes. And, you know, I was in the Greek life too. So I had all these other things going on. It's just not possible for a human being to do that without any form of rest. So the only way that I was making this lifestyle sustainable for myself too at a certain point, and that carried through into later on in life. And when it came to getting my first job at a school, I mean, I really associated my drinking with networking. I thought that's how I was going to get ahead in my career because that's what everyone did. I mean, my team would go out for drinks together or we would be networking with other people in the industry.

There were these events that were, I remember the Christmas party was kind of the holiday party was this. notorious, like, drinking event where everybody gets wasted. And so it was just everywhere. And so, yeah, it was the social connection. It was managing my emotions. I never was comfortable expressing myself. Learning to be vulnerable in the rooms of recovery was something that was a lot of work for me, a lot of slowly getting more comfortable, sharing what was really going on for me. Yeah, beautiful. Great awareness on all that stuff, too. I can relate to a handful of those myself for things that carry it forward. So you go to the the rehab there. Let's pick up there if we can. You go into the rehab. You go to the same rehab again,

or is this a different place? Yeah, so I went back to Hazleton in Chicago with a totally different mindset about the whole thing. You know, I was really trying to be more open and share and connect with my group and go to the meetings and do the things I was being asked to do. And I benefited so much from that and also from the fact that I already had a foundation of understanding. So I did that same treatment program that I had done the first time. It was six-week outpatient treatment. And then immediately after finishing that, I started to get a little bit worried because I'm living in Chicago, which at the time was a pretty heavy drinking city. Now there's some really great things happening in Chicago with the sober movement. But at the time, I was like, I need to have a plan here.

and so I started my first 200-hour yoga teacher training, which meant that nights and weekends I was committed to being in the yoga studio. And that was such a powerful experience for me because up until that point, I had been really experiencing a lot of the benefits of yoga on the mat, you know, in my practice. I couldn't really understand what was happening, but I knew some pretty profound shifts were going on. But as I started to learn about the philosophy of yoga, I remember there was a sheet.

It was a very simplified version of the eight limbs of yoga. And I'm just recognizing this incredible familiarity with the 12 steps and what I was learning in the rooms of recovery. And there was such a strong crossover there. And I became really fascinated by that whole connection and understanding how yoga was so much more than what I had considered it to be, even though my experience told me otherwise, like, you know, you always see it depicted as this physical practice. But I started to really appreciate it as a practice that was, you know, psychological and physical and spiritual. And there's all that. all these different layers to it. And so the more I got into that, the more I started to think,

surely I'm not the only one who's made this connection before, you know, like this is so glaringly obvious, the similarities. So I started to do some research later on and I actually came across a book by Kitsky Hawk, yoga for a 12-step recovery, I think it's called. And my teacher, Nikki Myers, who's been one of the most influential people who really like also opened me up to a lot of future teachers that I've learned from and studied with, but she started an organization called Yoga of 12-step Recovery. And basically, that was looking at there's the cognitive and spiritual tools that we get in the 12-steps and traditional recovery programs and talk therapy. And there's this somatic piece. Like, we live in a body. We experience life through our body. We definitely

experience our addictions through our body. And now there's so much research about how trauma gets stored in the body. And so it really brings those tools together in a really meaningful way for people who are in recovery. So I just got really fascinated by this mind-body connection. And at the time, you know, I really dove fully into yoga. I was really, really secretive about my recovery. Even when I had that realization when I was in my yoga teacher training, I was having this, like, quiet inner revelation where I was like, oh my gosh, this is just like recovery. But I was not raising my hand and telling the rest of the people in the room. I was like, it took me about four years, actually, until I was fully open. I was sharing more about my sobriety, like more publicly.

But yeah, so I got really, really into yoga. And I started to seek out, like, is there a way that I can leave this agency job and start teaching yoga full time? And I'm like, kind of investigating. And I knew it was going to be really difficult to make it work and pay my rent and all of that in Chicago. And at that same time, a friend of mine came out from Denver. to visit and she was like, I'm going to take some time off work and I'm going to go to Southeast Asia. I'm going to take a three month break and I'm going to pick back up when I get back, but I'm just so overstressed. I hate this job. It's not worth it. And I was shocked because she was the friend who was like really had it all together, had the job lined up before we even graduated, had a really great thing going.

And I was like, really, you're going to leave your job? You can't just do that. You know, how do you do that? But that planted a seed for me where I was like, I want to go. Maybe I can. do that too. So I ended up deciding, I spent, like you said, cocaine is expensive. So I was able to save a lot of money once I got sober. I decided I was going to save up my money and go on this trip, which seemed crazy to me at the time because I couldn't even pinpoint Thailand on the map, which is where we were going first. So I saved up money. I think it was about six months later that we ended up going. I decided I was going to leave my job, had someone subleased my apartment on Craigslist. And that was pretty life-changing for me because what started off as a three-month trip ended up turning

into about eight or nine years. I went over to Southeast Asia on this backpacking trip, and it ended up being four friends in total. It was me and three other friends that went over their backpacking, and we went all over. We were Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Lao. You know, we did the whole trip. And I ended up going to a yoga retreat as a guest. And it was this incredible space in the jungle, super rustic, super simplified living. We had these little grass huts, no air conditioning, there was no heated showers, no Wi-Fi on the property. It was all, you know, really about connecting to nature. And the whole day was structured around waking up, you do your meditation practice, chanting, yoga. There would be Dharma talks, such amazing people

coming through that you could connect with. Like meals always turned into long conversations. You know, I went there as a guest and I was like, I wonder if I could do this. I started asking the people who work there, like, how do you make this your life? How do you become a yoga teacher at a place like this? And I was actually given the opportunity to guest teach a yoga class when I was there as a guest. And I just felt this feeling of like, this is where I'm meant to be, which seems crazy because, you know, it was only a few months ago. I'm in an apartment in Chicago. But I just feel like I want to keep this going.

And so I did. I found a way to make that work. and I ended up getting offered a job to stay at that retreat center. And, you know, that really set my life in a totally different direction. I stayed there for a full year. And I'll say that being in that structured environment was really, really helpful for me in early sobriety. I never had to turn down a drink. I never had to be exposed to it. I had this very disciplined schedule that I was following every day. I had responsibilities to show up for other people. And it was incredibly healing for me. and it was also, it really set me on an entirely different path and allowed me to start leading retreats.

So after that, I started running retreats and teaching yoga overseas for a long time. And that was something that I always tell people, you know, when you can't imagine what your life is going to be like when you get sober. I'm not saying that's like a normal expectation, but sometimes it's just because you can't imagine what's on the other side waiting for you. Wow. That's incredible. How many months was it that you went for the gym? treatment and then until you were in Thailand? In between. Yeah. So it was April 27th is the day that I first got sober. So it was six weeks from then that I finished treatment and did my first yoga training.

And then I left for Southeast Asia in January. So I kind of broke the rule that you're not supposed to make any major life changes in the first year by a lot. So I didn't follow all the rules. But you know, like I said, I was finding myself in an environment that was really, really supportive. Like, I couldn't have asked for a more supportive environment to be in as a sober person, except if I had more recovery meetings accessible to me. That was the only downfall. But, you know, the really incredible thing was Tommy Rosen launched a Recovery 2.0 conference, which it wasn't very common back then to have these big online conferences.

Now we see them all the time. But I was streaming it into the jungle in Cambodia. I'm watching these talks with Tommy Rosen and my teacher, Nikki Myers. He's brought in people like Gabor Mate. I can't remember if he was on that first one, but it was just incredible. I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm getting access to this over here. So I did have some of that. Wow.

Yeah, he did definitely do like the first ones like that anyway. And now there's a lot more for sure. Yeah, that's so incredible, though, because you get to go there. You get this new opportunity completely outside of what you're used to doing in a different place and staying sober through all of it, plus learning and serving other people. like it was really powerful for you. Absolutely. And the other thing is, too, I think what it made me realize is that even if my drinking and

drug use hadn't gone so far downhill where I felt like I needed to change something, I didn't have access to that kind of inner guidance, whatever you want to call that. Like, there's something inside all of us, I think, you know, when you have a passion and you brought so many creative projects into the world. So I'm sure you can understand this on some level, you know, like when you have this dream that you want to follow through on, whatever you want to call it. It's like when you're numbing that out with alcohol, it's really hard to bring that into fruition. And in that way, I'm really grateful that I did have a bottom with drugs and alcohol where I actually had to make a

change because I can't even imagine thinking that that would be something I could realistically pursue unless I had a real reason to make a big change. Yeah, no 110%. Yeah. I think for the alcohol too, mainly. It's a big disconnect. I say like, you know, it kills us long before it ever kills us, you know, because you're disconnected from the relationship with ourselves, with other people around us. I mean, we're existing. I think for me, I thought I was showing up and I thought I was doing well. And a lot of the time, like, I just didn't really care. I was just looking for the next drink and as drug because I couldn't stand what I saw in the mirror, you know? So I think, like, it's really hard to say yes to things. Another thing, too, I can relate it to is I always had a

crutch. I always had something to fall back on when shit hit the fan and things didn't go well. Oh, it doesn't matter. I'll just escape this. But when you take that stuff off the table and there's no running, there's no escape, there's no hiding anymore, you got to face the music and find a way to get through it. And I feel like that can kind of push you if you want to be creative. If you want to do stuff, then instead of just like in life before recovery and even early on in sobriety, the first three years, like, I mean, I didn't push myself to do much. I was just learning how to get a bank account and stuff, but you really just settled for a lot less. I did anyway. I just settled for a lot less. And in sobriety, you gain more confidence, too, to take chances. 100%. Yeah, if I was still drinking

and using drugs at the time that that friend came and visited me and put that idea out there, I would have immediately said, no, impossible. You know, I can't do that. I've got this job. I've got to focus on. But I was in a place where I was like, this job is not going to work for me long term. I can't be in this environment where there's a beer cart going around my office and where all of my social interactions are based around sitting down at these dinners and getting super drunk and then going to the bars, you know, like it just wasn't sustainable anymore. And I'm glad that you say that about the confidence because that's the thing. I think alcohol gives us this false sense of confidence. And cocaine did that for me too. I felt like I was so outgoing and, you know, I was like really socially confident in all these things.

The reality was I had to really face so much insecurity when that was all removed. And I had to actually build real confidence and find tools that would help me do that. And, you know, it was through that process that I was able to actually align my life with things that were really going to bring me joy and a sense of purpose. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I'm going to have to.

So where's that? In Cambodia, I'll have to see if they're looking to hire a young fella. They want to hire me for a job for a couple weeks or a year or seven or eight years. Yeah, it's funny. you know, we think of those as the really risky things, like the big risk things, but then I think back at, you know, I had no problem being in a foreign country and trying to find someone who I could buy drugs off of and things like that. And I think that's the real difference is when you're working a recovery program and you're showing up and you've got accountability and you're really anchored and grounded in these daily practices, you have the ability to take risks and know you're going to land safely. And you can gauge that. You can know when you actually are taking a risk that's too far and could put you in real danger. And I think that's the really beautiful thing about being sober and working a recovery program is that you gain the confidence to be able to take risks that are really worth taking,

you know, that aren't going to end up with getting yourself in a lot of trouble. That's the fire right there, Mary, if I've ever heard it, taking risks that are worth taking. Look, Mary, before we sign off here, because I'm looking at the timer here, we're at 54 minutes and 43 seconds and it feels like we just started talking and we could probably talk for another seven hours. But if somebody's listening to the show and they're struggling to get or stay sober, what would you say to them? I think the most important thing for people to recognize and as cliche as this may sound, it's just knowing that you're not alone. I think whether we're struggling with drug and alcohol addiction or depression or grief or a separation, whatever it is, it's so easy to

feel like we're alone. And the truth is, is you're not, you're never alone. And there are so many incredible communities and people out there who will support you. And there's always a way out, no matter how hopeless you might feel in your situation. And so I think finding a community that you can truly connect with, that aligns with your values that resonates with you where you feel safe to open up is so incredibly important. And just reiterating what we said earlier, that even if you don't feel like you're ready, you can still start taking steps. You can still start incorporating things into your life that will start to make meaningful shifts and loosen that grip that substances have over you.

So if nothing else, I hope you find the courage to be able to reach out to at least one person and start doing whatever tiny changes are available to you right now in this moment. And you'll be amazed the way that your life changes. Yeah, wow, that's so powerful. Yeah, I love that. the community aspect connect with other people, who we can open up to and be vulnerable with and people that will listen and people that hopefully understand, you know, what it's like. Yeah. And that's the amazing thing is now we live in this time where there's so much available to us on the online space. If you go on Google or Instagram or wherever it is, you will find people that you really, really connect with. And so if you don't find that group right away,

don't give up, just keep reaching out, keep searching for people that you connect with because they're definitely out there. Yes, they are. Yeah, exactly. Mary, if somebody wants to say thank you to you for jumping on the show today, where would they find you? Should they send you some snail mail? Yeah. So I have a website that's sun and moon, sober living.com, and you can connect on Instagram. It's at sun and moon.com. I love connecting with people in DMs. It amazes me, the friendships that have informed that way. So please reach out. If you ever want to chat, if I can support you in any way, I'm here. I'm the one of the one of

answering and I love to connect with people who are on a similar path. Yeah. Well, thanks for letting us know you're the one answering because you never know these days with some people, right? Well, my account's not my name. So I'm always like, I feel like I should tell people. But yeah, it's very true. You never know with AI.

There's no AI thoughts are working for me. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, well, thank you so much. It's really been a pleasure to go through your story for you to share with us to be vulnerable with us. And this is really going to inspire people that they're an honest. alone that, you know, other people are out there and other people are figuring this stuff out and we're living, you know, we're living. Yeah, absolutely. We're all just on this path together,

you know, far from perfect, but we're doing the best we can. It's Mary's world. We're just living in it, right? I don't think so. I was born you before you sign up for that. Is there anything you'd like to end with? I think that pretty much covers it. Yeah. I've got a podcast too if you want to tune into more conversations. Got a great episode with you on there. And so, yeah. Yeah, let me guess. Is it the same sun and moon, sober living?

Yeah, the sun and moon sober living podcast. Okay. Yeah, so if you guys just search sun and moon, sober living, you're going to find Mary and the podcast, Instagram. Yeah, send her a message. Let her know what you thought about the episode. The pressure's on. All right, Mary, thank you.

Thank you so much for having me, Brad. It was so nice to chat with you. Well, there it is. Another incredible episode on the podcast. I want to put together a special bonus show for everybody and send me a message if you would be interested in something like this. What I've learned from over 80 Sober Story Podcast episodes, I put down the top 10 things I've learned through all of these interviews.

Would you guys listen or no? But I want to give a big huge shout out to Mary. Thank you, Mary, so much. Be sure to send her a message over on Instagram if you enjoyed the episode. Sun and Moon. Sober Living is her handle on Instagram. I'll drop that in the show notes. Thank you so much for the kind words and the messages I've been getting recently. I'm overwhelmed with gratitude.

I appreciate your support with the show. I appreciate you sharing it with your friends. And together, let's try to make a difference out there. See you on the next one.