Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Olivia describes herself as a gray-area drinker who often took nights off from drinking but never knew when ’enough’ was truly enough.

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

In this episode, we welcome Olivia, joining us all the way from Ireland. Olivia shares her experience of growing up in Ireland, where alcohol was considered a rite of passage, and the social pressure to drink was intense. She describes herself as a gray-area drinker, someone who could occasionally take nights off but often found it challenging to stop once she started. Tune in as Olivia recounts her transformative journey that began with a trip abroad and a life-altering panic attack, leading her to a profound realization: that moment marked a change in her relationship with alcohol, a truly divine experience that would forever change her life. This is Olivia’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. --------------- Follow Olivia on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/greyareadrinker/ Donate to support the show here: buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivation Follow Sober Motivation on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/sobermotivation/ Check out SoberLink: www.soberlink.com/recover  

Welcome to season three of the Subur Motivation Podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sobriety stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. How's it going, everyone? Quick message here before we jump right into the show. If you're loving the Subramotivation podcast and you'd like to show some support, help

out with some of the costs behind the scenes, head over to buy me a coffee slash Subramotivation. All donations are. appreciate it. Thank you so much for a continued support on the show. And if you haven't left a review yet on Apple or Spotify, jump in there and do that after you enjoy this one. Getting sober is a lifestyle change and sometimes a little technology can help. Imagine a breathalizer that works like a habit tracker for sobriety. Soberlink helps you replace bad habits with healthy ones. Weighing less than a pound and as compact as a sunglass case,

Soberlink devices have a built-in facial recognition tamper detection and advice. And advanced reporting, which is just another way of saying, it'll keep you honest. On top of all that, results are sent instantly to loved ones to help you stay accountable. Go after your goals. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device. In this episode, we welcome Olivia, joining us all the way from Ireland. Olivia shares her experience of growing up in Ireland where alcohol was considered a ride of passage and the social pressure to drink was intense.

She describes herself as a gray area drinker, someone who could occasionally take nights off, but often found it challenging to stop once she started. Tune in as Olivia recounts her transformative journey that began with a trip abroad and a life-altering panic attack, leading her to a profound realization. That moment marked a change in her relationship with alcohol, a truly divine experience that would forever change her life. This is Olivia's story on the Subur Motivation podcast. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast.

All the way from Ireland, we have Olivia. How are you? I'm great. How are you, Brad? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for jumping on here and joining us to share your story on the show. I'm so excited. I know.

It's great. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So what was it like for you growing up? Yeah. So as I said, I'm from Ireland. I had a really typical 1980s upbringing in Ireland. So my family is my main.

mom and my dad and I have an older brother and a younger brother. So yeah, listen, we had a normal lovely childhood in the middle of Ireland, greenfield. Not much to do. Really boring, actually. But I was a really sensitive kid, but a really deep kid. So if anyone asked me what I wanted when I grew up, I would say inner peace. So like I was quite fun loving, quite gregarious, bubbly, that kind of thing. Like no adverse childhood experience. nothing to no mad trauma. I suppose until I was 11 and I developed anorexia on the back of a comment that was made to me by an adult, not a family member, but I was told I was fat and I stopped eating after that for probably about six months. And so I starved to myself and probably lost about £45 in those six months. So I think as I reflect back now, it sounds so depressing. But it was probably the day my childhood ended,

where I became incredibly self-conscious. And I suppose if you look, I'll give you some context about the era that I was growing up in. So it was like the 90s where there was a really extreme diet culture. And like we get a lot of the, we're kind of intrinsically linked to the UK. Like we get the same newspapers, the same magazines. and there was a really toxic diet culture at the time

and like heroin sheik was really in and the thought around it was thinness was everything. So that's the messaging that I got. And I suppose because I was called fat, then I had developed really kind of low self-worth and like that I was really self-conscious. So kind of went into myself then, became more shy. Teenage years were kind of like they are for everybody,

a really, really tough time of trying to get to know who am I, my place in the world. And I suppose then in my middle teens, I would have found alcohol. And like that, the beautiful, soothing nature of alcohol would have drained out those voices. So it felt like an elixir that I was drinking something that made the outside come out. It was more apparent or whatever. So that's when I kind of discovered alcohol.

Yeah, wow. What's it like growing up in Ireland on top of all of that? What's that experience like? you go to school and you learn a ton of fun stuff. Yeah, so it's fairly standard the whole world over. But the parents were really obsessed with us getting a good education. So they were really intent on us going to university and stuff. So there's a high uptake of college in Ireland.

So that's the path a lot of people take. But like that, you know, I suppose being Irish and how we are culturally renowned as like internationally huge drinkers, like the world over. That's what you kind of think, isn't it? Oh, they're big busers over there in Ireland. And we are. My sense of it is we're kind of binge drinkers. So like we love fun.

We love the crack. There's a vibrant kind of social pub scene. And I would have loved that because you never knew where a night could take it. You know, you could end up at a house party until six o'clock in the morning or that kind of thing. But yeah, there's a lot of pressure around alcohol. There's a lot of pressure to drink it. Especially back then in the 90s, like there was a big, big push towards alcohol. And especially with women as well, the kind of that led deck culture that was over in the UK was kind of trickled over here.

So it was definitely the big boozy culture. Yeah. Interesting. Because yeah, you do hear that. And when I think back, yeah, you do hear. Yeah, Ireland. Yeah. They're drinking a lot and everything.

Yeah. But it's good to know somebody that's there right here from you that it's the binge drinking is definitely a thing. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah, not so much the kind of, like, there's not really the culture of like everyday drinking. It would kind of be weekends when people would finish work and head out and it just let off steam, you know? Yeah. So I went to university up in the north of Ireland and like that, that's, I suppose, when I really got to grips with drinking.

So I met a lot of people who really love drinking and, you know, love partying and it was a way of connecting with all of those. So I suppose like I was saying earlier, you know, I would have had a social anxiety. And when I drank, that went away. But like that, I never knew the one that was one too many or I never knew when to stop. You know, a lot of my friends would be like, oh, yeah, I just, I know now like this is it. Like I started to be sick or I know when enough is enough. I never knew when enough was enough. I would always kind of was nothing.

So it was like I could easily not drink. But even if I had one drink, that would turn it to 20, you know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Was it problematic for you in that sense in college? Because that's kind of like, I know when I went to school too, yeah, I took it too far, but there was a lot of other people that seemed to be maybe taking it too far too. I guess what I'm getting at is early on. I didn't realize at the time that I was taking it too far.

It was almost celebrated. Like, man, you were just a wild man last night. You know, that was crazy. And I'm just, you know, at the time, I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be part of something. And I was like, man, if this is what they like, let's give them a show. Yeah, exactly. And like I had a group of really exuberant, really good fun friend.

And we used to nearly act down for each other. So the wilder the things that we did, like it was all for each other for the last that we could have the next day. Oh my God. Can you believe you did that or, you know. So it was like, yeah, when I look back like was it problematic probably because I would have blacked out and off a lot. So I had my first blackout when I was 17. I woke up the next morning and there was a taste of a burger in my mate. And I was like, a burger. I didn't eat a burger last

night. But we'd been to like a chipper and we'd all eaten burgers and I couldn't remember it at all. So that had started quite early on and that was a pattern that was to go on for years and years and years, you know, the whole black and out thing. It was very, very significant part of my drinking. And I know now I'm a highly sensitive person, so I'm highly sensitive to loads of things. Like, you know, I need a lot of sleep. I need a lot of rest. I need a lot of alone time. And I was really highly sensitive to alcohol.

And there was a lot of adverse effects from kind of early on. But like alcohol, the first couple of sips, it would go straight to my face. And I could never gauge right how much I could drink. Like one weekend, I went to Galway, which is the opposite side of the country. And I drank the exact. same amount as the second Friday night. So two Friday nights a week apart, drank the exact same amount, was fine the first week. Friday night remembered absolutely everything.

The second Friday night I had to be carried home. So it was never an equal playing ground. I never knew what I was going to get. There was never an option to not drink because all my friends drank, the entire country drank. I didn't know anybody who didn't drink. So it just, it never occurred to me to not drink until I suppose I got into my 30s. Yeah. And that's interesting too. I've learned a little bit more about the blacking out part.

Through doing this podcast, I guess I thought for so long that to black out, it would just have to be a ton, right? But then now I'm learning, it's just reacting different for some people to where it might not be what we might assume with blacking out or what I assumed with blacking out would be just drinking a lot, a lot. It could be a different reaction like you're mentioning. You never really knew how your body was going to react to consuming alcohol. It's interesting. Yeah, like kind of Russian roulette all the time. Yeah, you wouldn't know how I'd react or, you know, would I black out, would I not? There was no markers to say, all I knew that if I went to bed and I remembered getting to bed and going to sleep, my hangover would be manageable. If I didn't remember how I got to bed, that's when I would like vomit for 12 hours or that's when like I'd be in bed for three days or I always knew when when I opened my eyes.

if there was no memory there that I was in for a really shity, rough day. Yeah, yeah, three days. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. You don't miss those. Oh, my God. You don't miss those days. It's the biggest joy of my life, but they are not here.

Oh, my God. When you look back, it's like, how did I do it? Like, how did I deal with the sickness, the nausea, the anxiety? I used to have, like, transitory hallucinations. Like, I used to hallucinate. Lots of low mood. Lots of self-loat. Then guilt, shame, regret, all of those really, really.

And I couldn't get myself out of it for a couple of days until like the alcohol really, really left my system, you know? Yeah. So when was the first time that you put these pieces of the puzzle together that your life would be better without it? Like are we anywhere near there yet or no? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So like I drank a lot during my 20s. So I did a lot of traveling and I suppose alcohol was a key part of that. Like I was obviously in the intervenant. like I got great jobs and being promoted and all that kind of stuff and got a master's. So like there was success happening on the other side, but like at the weekends and stuff, then it was kind of hedonistic and it was like maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, those kind of times. So then I went to a really dark space in my kind of mid to late 20s where I suffered from depression and uncle really, really did not agree with me and like it was exacerbating everything and making

it all worse. And then met my husband in my late 20s. I suppose then I would have had a lot of happiness with him. And then that's when I kind of really started to examine it, because I was really stable and stuff then. And then when I looked at it, even though I was like, why do I feel like this? Like none of you feel like this.

Like a lot of my friends, like, do I have the problem? It just started kind of a little silent voice in the back of my head. And then it grew and then it grew. And then I suppose I had kids then. And we naturally kind of slowed down, you know? So we would still kind of drink at the weekends and when we were going out with friends

and all the occasions that we would drink at and I was always the one who took it too far. I'd be at the bar, maybe drinking shots by myself if I felt like I wasn't as drunk as anybody else. So it was kind of me taking that little bit too far. And then I suppose with how hectic young kids are, it was a case of I can't do this anymore. I just can't.

Like when you're single and you've no commitments or whatever, it's okay to spend three days in bed. but not when you have small kids. I was still doing things in my kind of mid to late 30s that I was doing in my early 20s, like falling over and vomiting and saying stuff that I regretted and hitting my head and, you know, really, really intensely negative stuff.

So I suppose there came a point then where we'd gone to a wedding abroad and I had drank a nun of the lot and, you know, had a panic attack there. I had done kind of bouts of sobriety, until then or back to being off alcohol. And it had been really, really good. And then I suppose when I just went there that when I had the panic attack over in Spain or whatever,

I just knew this was the end of it, like it clicked and that was it. You know, we were on a mountain top and I handed. My husband, a half-stroke gin and just something had come over me. And I know now that it was kind of like this divine experience where I just was like, this is the last drink that I will ever drink. because like all the other hundreds and thousands of times that I had felt absolutely ravaged by I thought had finally caught up on me and I was just done done with the self-loathing, the self-hatred, like all the negativity, you know, when you're stuck down in the mires of like depression and

anxiety and it's hard, it's hard to get out of it and I just had had enough, you know? Yeah. Wow. That's powerful. And I want to get more into that. One thing, that really, really hit for me there was all of this stuff. It's kind of like that curious phase, right? We're kind of putting up the mirror or we're looking at our friends and we're wondering people around us. Is anybody else feel this way about their relationship with alcohol? Or is it just me? You know, when I reflect back, I look and I'm like, some people I knew they drank more than me. Some people I knew they drank less than me. And there was a lot of people who drank the same as me. It's that strange space to be in there where you're like, man, I feel like complete trash.

about this and I have to kind of fake a smile and when I started drinking I felt good maybe for like an hour or two hours and then even when I was still drinking all night I would have to drink more just to forget that I was even drinking and felt like crap about it my tolerance just went up and I didn't get the same effect as like when I was 18 years old but I was with you I looked around like these people you know and some of them have been doing a lot longer than me like maybe 30 years like carrying on this way and I'm like I could go so deep into this but I always wondered to that question of like why am I aware of this and why are they not aware of this? Because what we're doing is the same.

Like I had that sort of internal battle in questioning myself. Like, am I just making a big deal of nothing? Can I figure this out? What I find is a very important thing is that I could keep it together for a bit, but I always found myself back to where I said I would never be back to. I always ended up back there and it might take weeks or probably not a month. A month would be pushing it. I couldn't keep it together for a month. But I always ended up back there to the spot you're talking about the shame, the guilt. Feeling like trash, knowing in the back of my mind, there was this quiet voice that was like, you can do better in life, you can be better in life. And I knew probably years before I quit that I was going to have to face this monster at some

point. And I knew that, but I was just like, be quiet. Be quiet because it worked for me. Right. I had the social anxiety too. I didn't feel like I belong. I just. struggle with self-esteem. And honestly, the voices between my ears were just too heavy at times. It used to just put me down and like you're not good enough. And when I drank, that all went away. But that really stood out to me with that part about like those seeds being planted within us. Before you get to that mountaintop, you know what I mean? You were kind of thinking for a bit, right? And I think as well, you know the way you do so much reflecting because it really is the most profound thing to ever happen. Like I stopped drinking on the 4th of July.

And you know that Tom Cruise movie born on the 4th of July. I say I was reborn on the 4th of July because you hear that so often. That's what people feel like they were reborn. They'd be granted a second chance. They'd be led out of prison, whatever. But I'd feel so lucky that it had such a really bad effect on me. Because if I didn't, I'd still be doing it. And I would still have all this untapped potential within me

that would never get a chance to be. be released. And that's the thing that I would kind of say to anybody who is struggling with it, to just imagine yourself in five years' time, even though if you can't imagine yourself, we all have these wonderful gifts within us, right? But the alcohol kind of dims our light. It keeps us stagnant. It keeps us the same. So like I was stagnant for years and years and years, like I was staying the same in the same place, but never evolve and never grow. And then I give it up And over the last five years, like, I've done so much self-exploration. I have so much more wisdom.

I've become so much more confident and capable than I ever thought I was. And like, if I hadn't given it up, I'd still be in that cycle of bullshit. So it's like, drink at the weekend, feel shit until Wednesday. And then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And then Friday comes again. And like, you never get anything done because it's like the one step forward, three steps back. It's that hamster wheel of all the time, go, go, feel like shit, begin to feel grand, drink again, feel like shit, begin to feel grand. At some stage, you have to let go and kind of surrender. And like when I did give it up, I surrendered, you know, in the very beginning. I said, I'll go to go to everything. I'm going to listen. If somebody says, go to here, I'll go there. I'll just try everything. And in that trying of it, you just grow so much, like in self-esteem, these just tiny little incremental, my mind. milestones that you keep reaching like your first whatever, you know, your first holiday without alcohol

or your first wedding without alcohol or your first family event or your first reunion or whatever. So there's all these things and you just keep going and going and going because the absence of all the shit feelings, it's what propelled me on. You know, the waking up in the morning and there was nothing, there was no shame or guilt. I remembered exactly how I got home. Nobody was angry with me. Nobody was upset with me like it was such a relief. It just felt like such a relief, you know. Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, it does. And it's that one thing we take out, we see this quote all over the place, right? We're moving one thing. Just improves so many areas of our life. And it's not the easiest thing to do for everybody. Everybody obviously has their own journey and their own experience. That moment on the

mountaintop where you're handing over, which you said it was a bottle of gin? A glass. A glass, okay. A glass in and you're passing that off. You've had this intervention of some sort in your life that that's it. I mean, what was it like for you after that? Was it hard for you? There was such intense energy behind it. It just felt that this was it. Like it just clicked.

This is it. You've done it. So it wasn't hard because the hardest was living in all those really, really bad places, right? For days and days. It was difficult to navigate. the world that I live in with all my friends and all the friendships that I had and all the wine I would have to drank with different people and all the social occasions that I would

have to go to like work nights out and like hens and weddings and all that kind of stuff. That was the hardest bit to kind of like what do you do with your hands. Do you know what I mean? You need a, you think you need a drink in them. And I pretend drank for a lot of the time because I didn't feel confident enough so I would pour like a seven-up into a gin glass and make it look like a gin. So I would be going around with something that I, oh, what are you drinking gin? And then nobody assaults you after that. But there is times where people literally try and force feed you wine or it's so different.

And like I used to be that person, do you know? I used to be a person who would sober shame people. I was like, what are you at all? Like we need to drink. We drink. This is what we do. My husband told a friend of ours that I, wasn't drinking. And he was absolutely, he goes, you know, Olivia doesn't drink anymore. And he was

like, what? He loves drinking. Because Olivia loved drinking or Olivia thought she loved drinking. So like getting past those, well, what people expect of you and then you don't show up as that person anymore. So everyone has to get used to you and the new you. And then because they feel like you're completely changed that you've maybe joined a cult or, you know, you have to go through something to you have to experience something to understand it and to really get it. And because a lot of people haven't gone through that, they can't understand what's happening. Like it turned out to be absolutely the greatest decision of my life.

Like nothing I ever will do in the future or I have done since will make me as proud as giving up alcohol. Because it's been such an incredible turning point and an incredible achievement because of what it has given, you know, the peace, the joy, the serenity. the calmness. Like I've done a lot of the work. So I've done a lot of emotional regulation. I see a therapist. I do a lot of meditation, a lot of journal. And like I'm still on that. Like a lot of introspection to be able to say like, okay, how do I deal with this thing? And I'm at the point now where alcohol is completely insignificant in my life. So I'm over five years now.

So like it never, and it hasn't for I'd say about three years, it would never even occur to me to take a drink, you know? It has just been ridiculously amazing, you know, for all the benefits. Yeah, I'm with you. And you hear it from so many people too, right? The benefits is just, there are so many in the relationship they were able to build with ourselves too, because I find that I was just disconnected. I thought I was connected. I thought with these parties I went to and I thought the people I was involved with

and the friends that quote unquote a lot of the friends I had. I was so wrapped up in pleasing everybody else. I think I kind of left myself out of the picture for a while and what I would have wanted from life and it was just sad. And then when you sober up, you're obviously giving up the drinking is tough to do, right? Making a decision and not drink anymore. But like quickly after that, I realize like, that's not the hardest part here. Some of the stuff you're talking about that emotional work, realizing what to do with your hands, how you're going to fit in different situations and how you're going to try and work on becoming comfortable in situations where we were most of the time just. numb to everything. That was a really tough part. So then the emotions hit and I'm like, oh my gosh,

I don't even know who I am. That's like where I was and I was like, I don't even know who I am. But I did know one thing. And that's what kind of kept me going at the beginning as I knew who I didn't want to be anymore. So I did a lot of drugs too. The drugs left more of a tornado. The drinking was more of a slow burn. Drinking for me, I didn't necessarily leave like tornadoes behind me like I did for my drug career. But like I mentioned before, I lost sense of what the heck was important in life. I feel like I had my priorities really mixed up. And that was one of the things I enjoy about sobriety and about recovery and about not drinking and doing drugs anymore, is that I can actually be present for what is important in life. And I also have a good

awareness of what's not. Yeah. And we get to see like the little things that bring us joy. Like it's the tiny things. And probably one of the biggest things that I had to deal with was underwhelmed. So like my life was kind of underwhelming. Because you know when you're young and you've all these big ideals and you're like, oh, I'm going to be this, I'm going to be that. But you're not. And you're not anywhere near it and you fall flat in your face. And it's not the picture perfect life that you expected. And like there's shit all the time being thrown at your left, right and center. And I think probably the biggest thing that I had to deal was was underwhelm. And then we had moved as well from a very vibrant part of Dublin, like far right into the suburbs when we had

kids or whatever. And even that, like there was a loneliness around that and the change of routine of having kids and like it's busy, but it's far less exciting. So you have less to look like you're enjoying like parental is fog and it's great, but it's really hard, you know? And that kind of underwhelming and then learning to see the joy in the tiny things that that's what life is about. Like, it's not about the huge moments. I do say I'll never have the incredibly high highs that I would have had, but I won't have the crushingly low lows. But I'm perfectly happy somewhere in the middle. Like, I do experience joy, tear in my eye joy had tiny things, do you know? Yeah. No, I'm with you. Even when you were saying that I drew this little, it's a little

graph of the waves, you know, like high and low and like, because that's how it is. The emotions that roller coaster we're on is that we do have those high peaks, but everything that goes up must come down. So the higher we go up, then the further down we go, and we kind of ride this little more smoother wave, a lot of people will call it boredom. A lot of people are bored. I'm bored. I get it because it can feel a little bit boring for sure, you know, at first. And then I think it just becomes sort of our reality in our life. And then we get excited, like you mentioned, about the small things. We start to realize it's so incredible seeing somebody like get sober, give up drinking, whatever it is, and then they start to notice small stuff like the weather, the birds,

the squirrels, the grass growing. And it's like it's just so beautiful at first to see people realize that there's so much going on that they didn't even realize and so much cool stuff. Like that stuff like nature and stuff just brings me like the most excitement. Yeah. Even for me now, like just go into bed and read. my Kindle sets my boring little heart alight. And that life is boring, but it's beautiful and it's exciting and then it's dull and like it's riding all those waves. Like I would have done a lot of travelling in my 20s and my life was all about me. Olivia, Olivia, Olivia. Oh, and I lived in Sydney in Australia for, oh, it's about six months. And when I first arrived there, so I went out for

16 nights on the trot. Like that was all me. Like I was meeting different groups of friends. And who were over there. There was a lot of Irish over there at the time. But it was me. Like, so I was always kind of quite hedonistic. I loved out. So then fast forward 10 years and it's just this kind of slower. Like you said, maybe more boring, but a lot more fulfilling part of your life.

You know, and you have to just acclimatize to all that as well. Yeah. No, so true. But what was it like in Australia as far as the drinking culture? Was it different? Yeah. No, it's similar. Yeah.

It is similar. And I have a couple of friends who still live over there and they say it's very similar. Yeah. I'm wondering, too, if anybody around you, because it sounds like you're sharing a story of a lot of stuff is going fairly normal. Well, so did anybody ever mention to you like, hey, you should look at this? Is that a conversation that went on at all? No.

No, because a lot of people were drinking exactly like I was. I think there is a culture here of you don't really shame people for overdrinking. You just say, we've all done it. We've all been there. Don't worry. There's definitely a camaraderie in that, that they'd be like, the worst person alive in Ireland is a person who points out what you did the night before.

They're the people who are hated all over the country. Because why would you do that? Why would you tell somebody how shitting they were before or how drunk the night before or how drunk they were? It's just an unwritten rule. So nobody really says it. And then I had loads of different pockets of friends. So I would go out with one group, one night and another group.

And maybe they were saying it behind my back, like, that I was this person. They used to say when I got really drunk that I would sit in a corner and the saying was my eyes would go funny and it would be one eye going to the shop and the other coming back with the change. So I would just sit there like being no good to anybody. Yeah, nobody said anything. I had to bring it up to different sets of people. And when I did, they were like, no, you're fine. Because outwardly, it didn't look. that it just looked like I was going out a lot.

But, like, because I was still getting up every morning going to work and I still held down jobs and I never was arrested for drunk driving. And, you know, nobody was ever in danger. And I didn't really have that many injuries or rinses when you get up or something like that. But it never got to the point where it looked. But it just the internal bit, all the shame, the regret, like all the really, really negative stuff that I just couldn't, like the breakdown in my mental health. Yeah.

I'm glad you brought that up to there at the end of mental health. I mean, for years, I maybe thought I was depressed or I had anxiety. And people definitely do. Those are all real, very real things. But when I quit the substances, I was like, that still might be a thing. But my goodness, the edge, it is not anywhere near as heavy as it was when I was pouring gasoline on all the time. That was the main driver for that stuff. And that's one of the big benefits we see, right?

We could see. I mean, we feel better. You feel better. You look better. You know, there's just so many benefits. And I think it's coming out more. I don't know what the conversation's like in Ireland now, but I know here in Canada that it's coming out more and more about the negative effects of alcohol. I mean, I heard the other day, one doctor said, no amount of consumption is safe. After the first drink, the risks begin. I was like, we never heard that stuff 20 years. And I think that the conversation is changing around alcohol. So there's lots of studies that have been done. that are just kind of coming to the fore now and in the last couple of years. And they're kind of saying things like no amount of alcohol is safe. There's no benefits for drink and alcohol between the ages of 15 and 39. It was a recent study from Oxford that said it's a contributory factor of 60 different diseases. And here in Ireland as well, so we passed legislation to have cancer warnings on alcohol. Yeah, in 2026.

And like when you look at our reputation, internationally for the government to take a stance on that it looks like they're doing something you know that they're putting public health first that they're putting people like we have generations it's all good saying like i was in bits from alcohol and whatever but like there's families i know because i see them and there's not a single person i know whose lives haven't been devastated by alcohol whether it be somebody died whether it be violence or domestic abuse in the home where they're like somebody died on their way home, with disco one night, whatever.

So like everybody has a story to tell that it has caused unbelievable trauma in their lives. Yeah. And like the conversation is really changing here as well. So we have an abundance of like zero zero drinks. I was driving into work the other day and there's a sign outside our local pub for zero zero beer. Like that would never have been there like 20 years ago or whatever.

And there's non-atholic options everywhere you go. So it's a lot easier now than, let's say it was five years ago when I gave up drink it. So it's a lot easier. And people are hearing it. Like, not a day goes by where there's not somebody on the radio talking about it or there's something in the newspaper. So it's definitely gaining momentum. And then I think Ireland introduced in 2006, I think it was, 2005 or 2006, and no smoking ban. So they banned cigarettes from like pubs and restaurants and all that kind of thing.

And loads of countries followed suit. So I'd say it's, you know, the way things have a domino effect. And when things are in the collective consciousness, people then start, oh, I've heard about that. And I might give it a try. And maybe it's like yourself, I'm sure you have it as well, loads of people in your D.Ns all the time looking for guidance and help. So it's definitely a thing, isn't it? Oh, for sure. Yeah.

I mean, it is. Yeah, I heard that. I remember I heard that from Ireland was the first 2026 seems a bit ways out for something. But I mean, I guess it's better late than never. for it all, but I remember seeing that and then the U.S. and Canada and probably the UK, those are like really, in Australia, those are really the main, like English-speaking places that I talk with people from is that it would definitely probably follow suit for sure. You know, but there's a lot of money in the business.

It's like anything else. There's a lot of money in the business, a lot of money to be made. And having a label on the product telling the truth about what can happen, that's great for us. But yeah, that's not going to be great for people who sell on it, obviously, right? So they have to pivot. Yeah. But I think that's great. Everybody I know too in one way or another, I think that it's been affected generations, right?

A lot of people too, we see that come down the pipeline in a sense. And there's different things with that too. I don't know exactly if that's genetics. I personally don't know. But it's a behavior that seems to follow through, right, in addiction and struggling. Yeah. And then like people learn from the environments that they grow up in. So like parents obviously model behavior.

So if there's a lot of alcohol in the home, then obviously kids see it. It's funny because my two kids, so a boy who's eight and a girl who's six. And on Mother's Day this year, he made me a card. And on the front of the card was a glass of wine and it was like Happy Mother's Day. But he made a point to say that the wine, there was no alcohol in it. But like, how does he even know, like, he wouldn't have never really seen me drinking wine. So he associated with putting a glass of wine on the Mother's Day card. So what's the message, the societal message, the subliminal stuff that's getting to him that he's not seen in this house, you know?

Yeah. It's funny. So there's a lot of social conditioning as well. Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. It was really weird. Yeah. I mean, even on YouTube and stuff and in different things, there's advertisements for everything, right?

That people, unless you turn it off, I think they make, they have that option on Facebook and stuff. But on YouTube, I guess you'd be turning off, then you won't get those ads. But, I mean, even if you just turn on any TV or wherever. you go. It's even here on the bus terminals. And I'm just thinking, I walking by it the other day, I'm just thinking, do we really need it on the bus stops? Yeah. You know, advertising. Can we not find somebody else who wants to advertise on the bus stop? Like you said, big money. Yeah. So, follow the money, right? That's what they say. Follow the money. So popping back into a little bit of your story there. We talked a little bit about what were the things that were, you know, hard to work through

or things you had to like relearn and work through things. How has your life improved, like areas such as like your career or job or relationships or with yourself, your relationship with yourself? I always think that that's really interesting. Yeah. So probably at the beginning, I would have tagged what's known as a dark night of the soul. So like I didn't know who the hell I was. I didn't know who I was without alcohol.

If I drank for 23 years, right, and a lot of my personality, a lot of my friendship groups, a lot of who I was in the world revolved around alcohol. Then who would I be then? So I did a lot of work around what's my purpose. And it doesn't happen overnight. It's that kind of incremental thing all the time

of how you become better and more confident and capable. But I went back to university last year to do a diploma in alcohol studies. And turns out I'm a nerd. And I did incredibly well in that. But like better than I ever could have imagined or that I've ever done in any other course. I didn't know I was capable of that.

I didn't know I was capable of doing so well in something like that. And I've trained as a recovery facilitator as well. So I'm beginning that in the next couple of weeks to start one of my own groups. So I'm co-facilitating at the minute. You know, stuff that would never have led me down this path. But the most beautiful thing is the realization of the potential. So like, had I stayed the way I was? Like we talked about the hamster wheel earlier, I would have still been the same.

I would have been stagnating in that kind of merry-gill round of like, good one minute, good shit, you know, I just stayed the same. But all of this has just untapped this incredible potential that I'm realizing my dreams now, becoming the person that I always thought I would be before I ever started drinking. The person that I thought I would be when I was a kid or, you know, that kind, confident, incapable person who isn't intimidated or tries everything and tries new things and just the opportunities that have kind of opened up. And it has been the most incredible gift that I have ever got. And like that, you know, people say as well, just please believe us when we tell you how

good it is. A lot of them do find a way out, but it's just, you know, when you keep searching for that key, where are you going to find it? Even my relationship with myself and how I view myself and, you know, just working on it all the time. It's been an incredible joy. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. It's amazing what we can accomplish when we have like our full attention. You wake up in the morning, you feel good, you go to bed.

I mean, life still happens, right? Like, for me anyway, I have three kids, a five year old, a three year old and a one year old. So, I mean, life is moving fast, right? I'm with you on that. But it's just incredible to be able to be available and to do stuff. be ready to go in the morning, get a good night rest, not wake up at three in the morning and have to have water and just be full of anxiety and sweating everywhere. It's so incredible and it just gives us the time and peace of mind to work on stuff,

pursue stuff and the amount of confidence that we get to. Like you brought that up a few times. I mean, that just is beautiful because we don't have much. And I think maybe why we don't have much is because we're only operating at it. I was probably operating at about 25% my ability. So how could I be confident? in that. Do you think as well, the reason why we probably went down the road is because of a lack of confidence. Yeah, of course. And then it all stopped. So I think, and a lot of people

describe this. So like when I really started drinking, I was 17 and I stopped when I was 37. So in that intervening time, like that part of my life stagnated, nothing happened. And then when I got to the other side of it, it was like it was accelerated. It all sped up. But now I'm so enthusiastic, so motivated, so energized, so I'm just ready to go every single day, you know, and that hasn't been a pattern that has stopped. Whereas I used to think I was lazy because I would be on the couch or in the bed for three days with a hangover. But I wasn't lazy. I was just absolutely fucked from drink and the after effects of drink. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, a lot of people too, I used to work at this rehab too and some of the people would identify if like they were still,

in some ways that's 17-year-old still or that 18-year-old still emotionally, right, still working on developing because everybody has different ways that they're drinking. But if we're just numbing, numbing all the time, anytime we feel good, feel sad, that's what people would always ask me, like, when are you drinking? I'm like, look, it didn't matter. It was to celebrate. It was when I was upset. It didn't really matter.

Because a lot of people are like, well, it's just when you're sad, you know, do something else. And I'm like, well, it's not that. I like to do it. And things are good, too. I'm not like only doing it then. But yeah, I think so like, you know, we have to work on that stuff and build that stuff up. I like what you said there too, though, because I'm a firm believer in this word purpose. Finding your purpose in life can be so powerful.

I mean, you mentioned after you said purpose too about school and addictions. I mean, is that what you feel? Part of your purpose. No, I really do. And you know, have you heard of the Japanese concept of ikigai? So Japanese people have this concept called ikigai. And it's basically that you find something that you're passionate about, that feels like your purpose, that the world needs and that you can make a living from. And that is your reason to jump up out of bed in the morning.

And I really feel this has ignited a passion within me that I have never seen. So who knows what will happen, but I've won workshops online for people who feel like the way I felt and who drink in the way I drank. and offer them a bit of support and that's all we can do. And I've listened to a lot of your podcasts as well. People are so brave, right? When they come on here, they pour their heart out. They tell you the things that have brought the most shame,

but they don't do it for their ego. They do it to help somebody else. They do it to transfer the light that has erupted within them since again, removing one thing and to try and pass a torch on to somebody else. Randass Saints, we're all just walking each other home. And it kind of feels like that, like the elders in the village.

This is my experience. This is what happened to me. And I really want to help you because I've walked the pal. I'm a couple of steps ahead. But I know how good it can be. So just stick with it. Yeah, that's incredible. Honestly, I love the way you put that.

And people do. Yeah, people do come on this show. It blows me away after every episode. It'll be the same after this one. I kind of sit back in my little chair here and just think like, wow, that's for people to come on here and share their story and kind of put it all out there. And some of their story might have been for the first time just to try to help the next person.

I'm like, where else do you see that at? You don't see that. No. People doing that. And it's really incredible. And I think a big motivation for me, when I try to share my stories, because I know how it feels to be stuck in that spot, the hopelessness, just feel like trash. I did anyway. I just felt there's no way out. I've dug the hole too deep. And then I never

wanted anybody else to feel like that. Like they've gone too far. I think it was a guy the other day. He shared a story. I think he was 71. He got his first year sober. And I was just so moved by this. Like for one, work in social media and sending over your story, I go back and forth with 20-year-olds that we're trying to get it figured out. The fellow put it on there. And we shared his story and just a warm response from people. And his only thing, he said, said to me was, I wish I did it 20 years earlier. I go. And that's the thing is once we get here, we can't go back and change that we didn't do it sooner. We can make a decision today or tomorrow and really get started on all of these benefits that you're listing that we all

experience by just making that one decision, you know? But it's a tough one too because on the other side where you've mentioned your story here, we've got to learn how to maybe live for the first time or the first time in a while. It's scary. I don't have a whole pile of regret because I'm a firm believer in that kind of divine intervention and it happened the way it happened because it happened the way it happened. And there's no blame. There's no regret on anybody. It just happened that way. So we have to deal with to move on. There's no point living in the past. Like you obviously have to if it comes up for healing it needs to be healed transmuted, you need to move on. But like there's no point dwelling back there. We did what we did. What's John is done. Let's move on.

Yeah. So true. Do the best with what we got, which is today. You know, my husband loves that he's always saying to me, you know, Maya Angelou, do your best until you know better. And then when you know better, do better. It's so true, isn't it? But we know better. Even with my own kids now, when they're looking for advice or whatever, I'm like, kids, I'm only a kid who grew up. I don't know. let's figure it out together. But I am only a kid who grew up. You're not given like when you hit 21 or 25 or whenever your brain develops. You're not given a book to say, this is what you do.

But like when you look at it objectively, living in the world, it's just a set of skills. So how do I deal with failure? How do I deal with overwhelm? Emotional overwhelm. How do I deal with these emotions like that come over me like anger and jealousy or envy or all of these things? that's all life is, teaching us how to deal with them in a nice way that we can enjoy our lives and be happy. And like, isn't the number one goal of everybody on earth to be happy? That's all we want to not be depressed or not to be like shit every morning or not to have the shame,

regret, all those apathy to live in peace and joy and harmony and serenity for as much as we can, bar all of the stuff that happens within our personal lives, which happens to everybody. And that's the thing. Like no one is exempt from the pain of life. Nobody. And you kind of think you're led to believe as you're nearly gaslit to believe when you grow up that you are, that there are people who are exempt from pain. Like if they're very wealthy or if they're incredibly beautiful or if they're really tall or whatever things, but everybody has it.

Yeah. Oh, so true. But I'm with you on that. Yeah, we are sold a bit of a dream there that maybe some people are, right? And it just kind of makes us feel even more less than once we buy into that narrative, then we feel like we're just even more inadequate. And it's so far from the truth. Exactly.

And the same can be said about alcohol and how alcohol is represented in the world. Iron, is it not the greatest case of like global gas lighting in the world that you're giving this drink that will make you, we only ever see the glamorous side of it. Like we only see the cocktails and the suave people drinking how it's represented on TV. We never see the downsides. So we never see people hugging.

in the toilet and a movie or on TV. We never see the destruction and the true devastation. We rarely see child neglect. We rarely see kids going to school without enough to eat or without the proper supplies or without. We don't see that. We just see how glamorous it all is. And then they push the blame back on us when we do develop a problem with it. It's like, sorry, drink responsibly.

This is what we tell you. Drink responsibly. You know the one that's one too many. Yeah. Which is shame. That's a whole other thing that you brought the whole drink response we think. I almost wonder too when it comes to alcohol and wherever we put ourselves, whether we say we're an alcoholic, whether we say we had a problem, whether we just say it wasn't serving us anymore and we just don't drink anymore. To visually see the impact, I don't know if we can necessarily see it with our eyes all the time because we're looking for signs of drunk driving.

We're looking for signs of this. but I think this stuff really starts to mess up our life long before those things might come into play. So like I was struggling internally. On the outside, like, was it perfect? No. Was it completely different than my peers? No. But on the inside, I was feeling a lot different than they were.

I was feeling a lot different, but nobody could see that. I didn't show anybody. I didn't want to be that guy, you know? I didn't want to be that person. but, you know, I don't know if people were seeing it, but that's why I think, like, what you're doing, connecting with other people and doing groups when we do the podcast,

helping people get in touch with, you know, what's really going on inside there? And then, you know, a supportive community of people that can, they work through that with you. Because it's interesting, too, going way back to your story when you mentioned to your friends, now this is so common. This is so, so common.

You mention your friends, hey, I think there might be something here. No, what do you mean? Of course not. Everything's good. Yeah. And do you know you're saying there that you feel differently? Well, I'm a highly sensitive person.

So I'm highly sensitive to energies. I'm highly sensitive to my own emotions. I feel things really intensely. And the majority of people who come on my workshops feel things really intensely. And I send them a questionnaire. And nine out of ten of them come back as highly sensitive people. So I think maybe it'd be an interesting study to do. And like I wonder, do you?

feel like you're highly sensitive. I'm sure I am. In some areas, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't take much to get me going, you know? Yeah. And it's just a really interesting point that I noticed in myself and others around that they drink to kind of mask that high sensitivity because the world is a took place to be

if you're highly sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so true. Well, look, this 57 minutes went by so fast. It did. Yeah. Thank you so much.

I don't know if you had anything else that you want to finish up with or I would love for you to, I wanted to get into your handle for Instagram too. Maybe we could touch on that really quick. Yeah. Gray area drinking. Yeah. What's that all about? Yeah.

So I never felt like I fit the profile of an alcoholic. So I didn't think I was powerless over alcohol, but I knew it was really problematic in my life. So I had already given up alcohol when I found the term. So like gray area drinkers are peat. So you're drinking. doesn't look problematic on the outside, but it is internally, like we've just said. Like there's negative consequences, but they're not life-treatening. So it has all that negative, but it's not causing you too many problems in your life. Do you rely on it as well to, like,

boost confidence and deal with maybe stress or anxiety or that kind of thing? You never stop at one drink, like so you always drink more than you intended to drink. A lot of blackouts, a lot of regret, a lot of shame, a lot of the anxiety. You can stop at it, but you never can stay stopped. So like there's always some event or somebody that will get you kind of back on to it as well. So when I heard the term and kind of ran more into life, I'm like, that's exactly the way I drank. And that's exactly the patterns with which I drank. So it's a different way to look at it. Again, I think the main thing is, if alcohol is causing your problems in your life, then you have a problem with it. Then you need to look at, like, reducing it or removing it. Okay. But other than that,

like it was a problem in my life. It was causing problems. It may not have looked like it was causing problems, but it absolutely was. And then the removal of it and the growth that ensued then really shone a light on the fact that it was problematic. Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah. I always wonder, too, because this is becoming more of a term that people are relating with. Yeah. And I'm just wondering too, like if you were to hang on in that gray area spot, like, does it get worse for you for somebody? Like, do you start to have those outward things? Or we don't know this exactly, but do you feel like you would be able to just keep that going for the next 15, 20? Yeah, I think some people do. Yeah. I think as well, I always say this. Like, your life is always talking to you. So you're always getting

messages, whatever. And you know, if you keep ignoring the messages, then I think a lot of people do keep ignoring the messages and then they cross the line. And I think as well, we obviously don't have time, but like the pandemic really caused a lot of people to cross that line. And a lot of them were women. And a lot of them were women of a certain age as well. Because our Friday night became our Monday night. And like, Althol was still being sold.

Like it was still deemed an essential item. And paint wasn't here in Ireland. Like you couldn't buy paint to like paint your fence in the garden or whatever. But you could buy alcohol. Yeah. you know, people got overly reliant on it at that stage. And that's, I think, what caused a lot of problems for people in the last couple of years. Yeah.

Oh, well, for sure. Yeah. I've had a lot of people get sober in the last couple of years. Some people will share. I mean, I don't know whether it was or not. It's not for me to say necessarily, but some people say it was a good thing because it kind of sped up what they already knew was there to where there was a problem. And you're drinking alcohol to numb to avoid, to bury the emotions, to, to,

deal with stress in life and to kind of avoid yourself and then now you're with yourself all the time. Works not there to distract. Your social connections are minimized or, you know, like this virtually. And it was heavy hitting. But yeah, some people say, yeah, it got a lot worse. And then they were able to say, oh my goodness, like this is really. And then they sobered up. They got sober. They got off of it. So yeah, but it's really, really interesting. That was definitely, yeah, here too. A lot of people who didn't understand the nature of alcohol, they were on the news. Why is the liquor store open? A lot of people don't realize as if you're dependent on alcohol and you don't have alcohol, you can die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, a lot of people were

wondering why is it open and stuff that's like, well, that's why, you know? And then people are kind of scratching their head like, well, why are we selling this stuff? But that's a whole other, yeah, yeah, yeah. A whole other day, right? But thank you so much. Where can people find you if they love the episode as much as I did. They want to say thank you. Yeah. So I have an Instagram account and it's called at Gray Area Drinker, and it's G-R-E-Y area drinker. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.

It's been magic. Well, there it is every one another episode in the books. 92, I think it is. Got to give a big shout out to everybody out there who's supporting the show for everybody who's enjoying the show and for all of you who are sharing the show with a couple of your friends so that we can grow this thing and just put sorority on the map. Just let people know that it's possible, that we can come from some. many different walks of life. We can find a way out and start to live our best lives.

And this is also possible because if you're anything like me, for a few years, I had no idea what this whole sobriety or what it looked like, what it felt like, and that other people were actually doing it, that it was actually a thing. So that's the whole mission here is to just spread the message that sobriety is possible for anybody and everybody willing to do a little bit of work. Thank you, everyone, and I'll catch you on the next one.