Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - The Drinking Problem He Couldn’t See | Mike & Kristen’s Quit Drinking Story

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

Mike never thought he had a drinking problem. He was working, providing for his family, and convinced himself he was still functioning. But behind closed doors, alcohol was quietly changing everything.In this powerful quit drinking story, Mike and his wife Kristen share both sides of their journey through alcohol addiction, denial, marriage struggles, and recovery. You’ll hear how daily drinking slowly took over their lives, the difficult decisions that followed, and how they rebuilt trust after choosing sobriety.If you’ve ever questioned your own drinking, wondered whether you’re a “functional alcoholic,” or you’re looking for hope in recovery, this honest conversation is for you.In this episode we discuss:• Functional alcoholism • Daily drinking and denial • Alcohol addiction recovery • Marriage and addiction • Choosing sobriety • Rebuilding trust after addiction • Life after quitting alcoholWhether you’re trying to quit drinking, supporting someone you love, or have years of sobriety, we hope Mike and Kristen’s story reminds you that recovery is possible.Sober Motivation Mobile App: https://apps.apple.com/app/sober-motivation-app/id6759266291Sober Motivation Website: https://www.sobermotivation.comSupport the Podcast: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivationContact me anytime: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If there's anything I've learned in the last 16 years, it's this. Quitting drinking is so much easier when you have people walking beside you. That's exactly why we built the sober motivation app, a place to connect, attend up to 60 live calls a month, make new friends, track your progress, and find support every single day. Not doing everything alone is the turning point for so many. I've created the platform, but you have to bring the willingness. If you would like to join us, head over to sober moment. Motivation.com, and I'll see you on the inside.

So I accepted the fact mentally kind of inside that this stuff was going to kill me, and I was okay with it. From the outside, Mike looked like he was holding it all together. He was working, providing, showing up. But addiction has its way of convincing us that if we're still functioning, we don't really have a problem. Today's conversation isn't just Mike's story. It's Kristen's too.

It's the story of what it's like to love someone who's struggling. the impossible decisions addiction can force a family to make, and how one decision would change both of their lives forever. And before we get into today's conversation, if you're struggling, I want you to know this. It's okay to tell someone what you're carrying. Shame wants to keep you isolated, but freedom often begins the moment you let someone in. And this is Mike and Kristen's story on the Sober Motivation podcast. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation Podcast.

Today we've got Mike and Kristen with us. How are the two of you doing? Good. Yeah, we're pretty good today. Yeah, awesome. So Mike, starting with your story a little bit here. So what was it like for you growing up? You know, Brad, I had a great childhood.

I loving family, tons of friends. I grew up in London, Ontario, and kind of planted my roots here as an adult and kind of been here ever since. Nothing notable about my childhood, a lot of fun. lot of freedom. I was sort of like an 80s baby, you know, like, um, yeah. Nothing really, uh, stands out as far as like how I got on the sober motivation podcast, but you know, yeah, which is, which is interesting. I think that kind of like I shared with you before, there's so many people on the podcast that share the exact same story. There's nothing necessarily

that they could put a finger on at the time that like explains, okay, now this makes a lot of sense. Did you see a lot of drinking growing up, too, or not really? Oh, 100%. Like my parents, they'd have a beer here and there. Like, they weren't real big drinkers. But growing up as a teenager into my 20s, we partied a lot, drank a lot. My circle of friends, they're awesome, and I'm still close with all of them. Just that was something we did. We go to bars and party, like many, you know, teenagers, 20-year-old, you know, like that type of thing. But yeah, drinking was a huge part of my teens and 20s, for sure. Yeah.

When did you first start drinking? Probably 17, 18. Yeah. Right around there. Like, not super young. Yeah. Anything stick out to you in those moments. I mean, some people share like, hey, they took it too far.

And like, oh, wow, that was not really interested. Some people are like, hey, it checks. some boxes. I felt like I belonged. I fit in and I was comfortable. Maybe insecurity slipped away. Any of those relatable? The one thing that really jumps out at me, Brad, is I was really good at it. You know, like it brought out the best to me. It brought out my sense of humor. It brought out my color, my personality. It kind of like at that time in my life, it was like a complimentary thing, you know? Like it was a social drug that I used. It was sort of of like something that brought me together with friends, got me out, you know, meeting people.

Yeah. Yeah. No consequences, right, in the early days. Doesn't sound like it anyway or was there? No, not at all. Like the one thing I was really, really adamant about when I was younger was not drinking and driving, right? So at that time, at that time, my life, Uber wasn't around.

But in London, London's sort of a party town with Western and family. ranch on stuff. There was always cabs. So as far as making bad mistakes with that type of stuff, that never happened. Yeah. Where'd you go after high school? College? Yeah, I went to college.

I'm a tool and die maker by trade. Okay. And that was in London too then. So you stayed in London? Yeah. So all of your partying in London. Still in London. You love London.

It's home, you know? Chris is the world traveler. She traveled the world and, you know, ended up here. So, yeah. Ended up in. Yeah. But I did go away. I went away and then came back.

And when did the two of you meet? Like, was it in college later in the story? We went to high school together. So we knew each other in high school. But I wouldn't say that we were very close at all. We had separate friend groups that passed sometimes. I was a lot of cool. Yeah, yeah, right.

I knew who Mike was. He's a very big personality. And like he said, he was the party guy. He was a lot of fun. And so people gravitated towards Mike. And, you know, drinking was part of that. He was good at it. He was good at having a good time.

So we went to high school, didn't really know much about each other. I went away at West University. And then after university, we ended. up having a mutual friend bring me to a party that turned out was at Mike's house and we connected and then we had a lot of good times in those early days. And it was great at the time. In our 20s, we were really good at partying. And that made things more difficult down the line because it was such a big part of Mike's

identity, the party guy. True, true. What did it look like, though, in your 20s? Like, are you saving the partying for the weekend? Is it, you can't slip it into Thursdays or? Yeah, we would, it would slip into Thursdays, sometimes Wednesdays. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You ever think throughout that when you're, you know, in your early 20s of anything to look at here of, you know, drinking or is it's like everything's pretty good? Everybody's doing it. It's all good. So having a, having a. Like doing an apprenticeship, at that point, when a lot of my buddies were doing university,

I was doing my apprenticeship. And so with an apprenticeship, you have to wake up and get to work, right? Like my day would start at 7 in the morning. That's sort of a little bit different than my buddies at the time who were still in school. So I think it made me grow up pretty quick. And it made me like kind of just keep drinking to the weekend. Yeah, like like kind of there's kind of numb. and just kind of get to the weekend to start partying again.

And yeah, like we would always get together on Thursdays. It was like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday afternoon, Sunday evening, you know, like it was a huge part of my life. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good time. And did it seem like a problem in our 20s? No. No.

Yeah. It was once, you know, you start having kids and you get into that really, life when you start to go, oh, you know, maybe this isn't so fun anymore. When did that? When do you start having kids? So our late 30, I was almost 30 when our first was born, you were 31 when she was born. So yeah, our early 30s, we started having kids. We had our second two years later. And it was really our 30s that a lot of damage was done. You know, we had some significant things happen in our life. My dad passed away and just life gets tough.

You've got two young kids. You've got other stresses and we just didn't have the tools. We didn't cope in a healthy way and just had to keep going. And Mike's, you know, crutch was alcohol. So because it was such a normal part of our life, him coming home and having a beer after work or two beers or whatever was just was just what you did that was okay and you know that's why our story is i think possibly relatable to a lot of people is we didn't on the outside we weren't a train wreck um we were functioning Mike was really always functioning he went to work lots of mornings

he probably shouldn't have gone to work but he did and in the later days that became a huge big fear for me because I was thinking, you know, we're just who know, like days away from a possible DUI just from like going to work in the morning after you've been drinking half the night. Yeah. But we were functioning. He was functioning. If like functioning is not sort like living. Yeah.

A lot of people share. Yeah. Functioning at the time they were, but that's not wasn't necessarily the goal. Like maybe they didn't that wasn't their purpose of life. When do you, when do you notice? I mean, you mentioned the kids come in, right? That's stressful. I've got these three youngsters running around my place.

And it's a lot, right? It is a lot. But Mike, when do you notice things shift? Right? You're doing Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you're hanging out with the boys and you're having some fun. And then maybe it shifts to like at home. I do see a common trend for people when they have kids. You're not like, okay, I'm going out to the bar every night.

Stuff. Thoughts? So where it started to shift was when I'd come home from work and have a cold beer, which was fantastic. But where it kind of flipped was when I started having more and more drinking alone, right? Once the kids went to bed, like that type of thing. That's where. And so that would have been when the kids were like just born.

that period. Yeah. But yeah, the drinking alone to kind of cope with the day. And, and I think probably, as you mentioned, Brad,

like when you, when you go from a outgoing social life, you flip that switch, you have a young family, and you're basically stuck at home at night, right? When they're little, yeah. The kids go to bed really early, and there's nothing to do.

You know, so I think, like, between the boredom, in a sense once everything at home and everybody was asleep and the progression of drinking alone at nighttime. And beer, Mike was always a beer drinker. He was a really good beer drinker. And in our early 30s, that switched to whiskey.

And the switch from his drink of choice going from beer to whiskey really amped it up. because six Ryan Cokes versus six beers is a whole different story on a Monday night. How did that shift take place? I mean, was that something that you thought through? It was my dad. It was ironically, it was my dad. So one of those things that I talked about traumatic things happening, we had a really bad house fire just before the kids, thankfully. But we had to move in with my dad who.

Mike was very close with and live with him for a long period of time. And my dad was a whiskey drinker and he would have a rye and Ryan Coke at night. And Mike never drank hard liquor until then. And so we moved in there and he started having Ryan Cokes with my dad at night. And that's how the switch happened. And it started with one and then two. And then by the end, it was a lot of whiskey. Yeah.

Just kind of right after work. What's it like in the culture of sort of the trades too? Is there people don't drink that much or people do kind of work hard, play hard, or it's a healthy mix? I think, like certainly when I was doing it, it was work hard, play hard. Yeah. Yeah, like now, I think it's, I'm sort of removed from it. Yeah.

But back then, absolutely. It was, you know, you're, You're only as strong as your last drink, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's what you see. I hear this a lot of colliding in a lot of stories of people are often surrounded by other people drinking like them, maybe a little bit less. And then there's always, there's always John down the street who drinks a whole heck of a lot more.

And he's got a serious problem. And I'm not, you know, I mean, I'm not there yet. So like, there's nothing to see here. I'm good to go. and it just becomes kind of every turn and the identity gets attached to it. When the problems start happening and how do things too? Like if you wanted to share Kristen too, like I was drinking looking for you. As me personally or his drinking.

Yeah, like for for you. So I don't drink anymore. Back then I did drink and especially in our party days. I know I drank quite a bit. I was never, I don't have the addictive personality that Mike does. I have the opposite. So it was never a problem. And so when, you know, Mike quit and I watched him go through his journey, I actually remember thinking, I can't imagine going to a social function and not having a glass of wine for me, you know, and I was always, I wasn't a heavy drinker,

but I would always need one or two glasses of wine in social settings. And then as I got older, once I turned 40, my hangovers got bad. Like I couldn't have, I'd have two, glasses of wine and have a headache for days. So that combined with the business, when we started designated drinks, we kind of got immersed into the non-alcoholic world and I realized how many options there were. I slowly cut back and eventually quit. So I actually haven't drank for three years now. I don't drink at all.

And it's just because I noticed that I was feeling so bad. And then I started having one non-alc and one alcohol. and I just drank more and more of the non-alc and I realized why am I having any alcohol. And then after quitting for a month or two and then I got to six months, I started seeing the changes physically and mentally. And so now I just, I couldn't go back because I just can't imagine how bad I would feel. I don't know. I may not make it.

I might not wake up the next day. Yeah, it does. A lot of people share that too. Like what, you know, how we work through it in our 20s changes as, you know, as we get older. Yeah. In this kind of era of your life, you guys share of having kids, the house fire, moving in with your dad.

Is there anything else that you feel like stands out that would be important to the story? We had a house fire. Then my dad died actually not long after. So we had the house fire. Then we had babies. Then my dad passed away dealing with that. I was in an accident.

So we had to deal with that with young kids. and it's just life, like going to work. And so those things piled up. I went and got some therapy myself. But again, you know, at the time, Mike was, it's hard therapy and mental health. And he's like, I don't need that. And, you know, which is a lot of, you know, it's, you want to be this, I don't know, strong man. And so therapy just wasn't.

And so, and he, he just drank. And he was having, you were having like anxiety attacks. and like PTSD kind of symptoms and stuff and the booze helped. So he would come home and he'd have that beer, have that second beer, and know those symptoms would go away. We're involved in a like some legal stuff. So like when Chris had her accident. And it just was this like slow decline of like one thing after another after another.

Like nothing incredibly like. major. There wasn't one major event. It was just like, I was just getting chipped away at, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then you just, you have to get up and go to work every day and you've got to take care of the kids and you get caught up in it. And the drinking was just there and it was what Mike did. And then it came. I put on a mask.

Yeah. And then we pretended. And as things, you know, I knew and could see them getting. worse. You just, you don't know what to do. You feel like you're being crazy. I thought I was being the nagging wife by thinking like, oh, he's drinking too much. And so then it goes on and it goes on and it goes on. And then you start, things start to happen and you go, wait a minute, maybe this isn't normal. Maybe this is, you know, like I shouldn't be taking pictures of the whiskey bottle every day to track how much whiskey he drinks. Like not every wife does.

that stuff like that you find yourself going oh wow like this isn't okay yeah and and then but again you've got two young kids he is able to still go to work and pay the bills so that is also a narrative that is really hard with alcohol you know we we kind of picture the worst case scenario scenario being catastrophic. Like hit, you know, you, you lose everything or you end up like on the streets if you're an alcoholic. Like all those terrible pictures is what we, you know, tend to. And so we were, I was able to say, well, he's not there yet.

He's still paying the bills. And he could say that. And you convince yourself it's okay. And it's not too much. Yeah. I totally convinced myself it was okay. Like I was high functioning. Like maybe even.

super high functioning in many ways because what I put my body through, you know, and it could still get up every morning. Well, I'd go to work, but not high functioning in the household. No, and not, and looking back at those times and certainly look like reflecting on right now, like I was, I was nowhere near my potential, you know, like nowhere, nowhere close to, but, you know, I got through the day and. Yeah. So he got to work and he got home and the bills got paid.

But once he got home, the drinking was the priority, not the kids and not, you know, and not on purpose either. That's the thing. Like it's not like he consciously made a choice. I'm going to choose alcohol over my children. It's, that's the addiction in it. Yeah. How does it, how do the first conversations play out when you're like, you, you know, you're drinking too much or. Yeah, like just denial, just no, nothing, yeah.

They play out in a lot of arguments and a lot of, you know, him convincing me that I'm crazy and just being a bitch, you know, like, because, oh, I'm just having a good time and, oh, relax. And, you know, I have to, I worked it. I deserve this. And, yeah, and over and over. And that's the thing, like, it took, it takes a long time to get to the point, especially as like a wife and a mother where you're, you say, okay, like, maybe I need to get out. And then the idea of getting out is so terrifying that you then deny for longer because that's so scary. Yeah. What are your thoughts, Mike, when you're, when you're hearing this or this is, you know, brought forward?

Well, again, because Brad, it was a very gradual decline. You know what I mean? Like it was just sort of like it went from social to like a coping thing to we're doing okay. You know, like she's not my best friend anymore. But like we have this house and family and obligations. Like we'll get through this. Maybe tomorrow will be better. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week will be better.

Maybe I'm not the problem. It's her. You know, like maybe everybody's like this. I couldn't imagine my life without booze. So like it was like a non, it was a non discussion in many ways, right? Like this is who I am. This is what I do. You deal with it because I'm not going to.

Right. Like that was that was it. And it was the classic cycle of, you know, the weekend approach. So he has drinks regularly throughout the week. But then Thursday, it amps up, Friday more, Saturday. And then by Sunday, I'm so pissed off that it blows up into a fight. And then he says, okay, I won't drink tomorrow. And so Mondays is when we're going to try.

And, like, he'll have one beer or two beers. But at that point, on the Monday, I was so kind of, like, broken slash, like, exhausted. from the lack of sleep and exhausted from, you know, binge drinking for days. Consuming that much poison and that much booze that like. Yeah. I wasn't even there. I was just sort of like a lie.

But I wasn't at all like emotionally there. I was physically there. Yeah. Yeah. And then it just gets to a point where things like he wasn't, him anymore. So when I think about that person, like he wasn't,

he, you know, he had no patience. He would explode at the littlest thing. He never heard anything I said. And I was at that point carrying everything. So the house was functioning. He would go to work and come back. And so the bills are getting paid. And, you know, but I was,

everything else was I was caring. So that just got to a point where it was exhausting. Yeah. And are you still going to therapy at this time, too? At that point? Me? Yeah. Or either of you?

Yeah. Him? No, at this point, no. He has not been to any therapy. We did try when things, like, when I knew in that kind of last year where we were approaching like this, something's going to have to give, we tried to go to a couple's therapist and it didn't go well. Like, I don't know.

For us, couples therapy, we had a couple experiences with different therapists and it never worked. We found the best was we had to do our own work and then use those tools to come back together. To come back together, yeah. Yeah. Looking back at those times, like that, that would be about 14 years ago, 15 years ago. Like, we tried, but I wasn't willing to look at myself. and it's really difficult to kind of work on your marriage, work on your friendship when there's just blockades and barricades

and like, you know, don't touch this. Like, this is mine. It's, you're the problem. You're the problem. You're the problem. Because he wasn't, he wasn't ready. And unfortunately with addiction, it's like, it's the one disease where if he doesn't, say he is an addict and he doesn't want to get help, it's not going to happen.

No matter how much I wanted it, it just wasn't going to happen. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Just looking at where things are at kind of in this part of the story, did you ever like see yourself ending up here as sort of it started out as social and hanging out and, you know, college and everything. and now it's like they're not wanting to let it go so afraid or fearful of what life could look like without it. Never in a million years. Amazing question, Brad.

Amazing question. Like that's brilliant. Never, never, ever, ever. No. No. I thought, and I watched some of my friends in my 20s kind of entering into my 30s. I watched my buddies. some of them grow up.

I watched them kind of like cut it cut down. I watched them kind of, you know, start living a better life, start living a healthier life. And, but no, I just couldn't let it go. I kept on trying to recreate my, my party years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no. We could, and like, somebody told me that Mike was going to.

start a business that sells non-alcoholic drinks. Like if someone came to me, you know, eight years ago, even six years ago, I would say they were so insane. Never in a million years. Yeah. And even too, with like the alcohol, because I think that's relatable to so many people. Like when you first start out drinking, I don't think anybody wakes up one morning and is like, hey, let me just blow up my whole life and just keep drinking. But yeah, that's like your story here, I think.

is how it happens. It's slow. It's steady. It's consistent. I think it's like if we do anything in life consistency consistently. Yeah. Like it's going to be an impact, good, bad, you know, one or the other. And if we just keep drinking and then these things happen and that's all we know. We lean into it more and more and more. And then the changes with the brain, which I feel like a lot of people maybe don't even realize, but, you know, the whole wiring of the brain is changing and how you feel pleasure. A lot of people share too. They didn't feel any joy. Like it had to be drink, then potentially joy.

But they could be in the most beautiful place in the entire world. But without a drink, it was just blah. It was just like they couldn't appreciate it. Absolutely. So part of the thing was, yeah, like where's the bar? Anything fun revolved around like a cooler full of beer or a bar full of booze. I was completely numb to what, like, true happiness felt like. Yeah, like it's such a weird transition, you know, like you think you're in, yeah,

you're in paradise, maybe on a holiday or whatever. And even that revolves around drinking. Yeah. Everything revolved around drinking. Everything. It was just, and at that time in our life, it was actually easy because our kids were small. And when, you know, your kids are small, you don't, they're not involved in sports and activities really yet. So it was okay that we were pretty much housebound because he was obviously not going to drive anywhere once he got home from work.

And so, and the kids had to go to bed early. So that part of our life really catered to drinking, unfortunately. I can't imagine now. Like I'm so grateful that we were able to pull out of that and him quit before our kids got to an age where they're involved. Because I don't know how we would have even got them to sports because he wouldn't be able to drive every night. You know, really, which is crazy when you think about it. Yeah, it is 100%. So how do things kind of move forward from?

You know, this, I've seen a few of the reels, I guess, on Instagram, but putting it together about, you know, sort of, yeah, walk me through sort of the next steps. I mean, you're mentioning to Mike just to kind of wrap it up and make sure we're on the same page. You're mentioning to Mike about, hey, drinking too much. And, you know, Mike's doing, I think, like, all of us have been there with the drinking problem of like everything but the drinking, right? We want to protect the drinking of, yeah, I'll try to change or maybe it's you or maybe it's the job or it's kids. It's just a season of life we're in. Like, we're going to get out of this, but it's like everything but looking at, well, I don't just go drink for 30 days.

So you're kind of in that phase. And then where do we kind of move forward? Yeah. So I started to really realize that it's a problem. And, you know, you start to, so I started reaching out for help and looking for help. And I reached out to some addiction counselors. And I personally went to Al-Anon. a few times and which I drove there several times and didn't go in because you also can't believe

that you're in this situation, right? You're just like, how the hell did we get here? And there's so much shame around it. So it's not like other issues that, you know, families go through where you go to work and I'm sitting at lunch talking about, oh yeah, you know, Mike had so much whiskey last night and I don't, like, you just don't talk about it. And so I got some how and counseling and got to the point where I felt like I had to talk to our family. So, you know, I talked to his parents because people, you know, close to us knew there was a problem. His close friends, they could see that, you know, he had changed and it was becoming, it was getting

out of hand. But again, people still don't see what goes on behind closed doors in your house. And so I don't think anyone really knew how bad it had got. I was taking pictures of how much he was drinking and going to my doctor. and saying like, am I crazy? Is this? So is this too much? And long story short, I was counseled to go to him and say, so it was October 1st, 2018. And I said, if you don't quit, I am leaving in a month. So at the end of the month, I'm taking the girls and I'm moving out. And it was, you know, when I had been counseled that, first of all, I had to be really serious about that. But still,

When I was telling him in my head, I'm like, I'm not going to really leave. Like, this is insane. How would I ever do that? But that was the first step. Yeah. And I, in my head, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll dial it back a bit. But that's bullshit. She's not, she's not going anywhere.

Like, yeah. Yeah. Because the thought of quitting was so overwhelming, right? Yeah. Yeah. Was that sort of the conversation of you need to quit or you need to cut back and I'm or if not I'm leaving out. You need to quit.

Like I guess the enabler in me, which, you know, as a spouse of, you know, someone with a drinking problem, you do enable it. And so I, I'm sure I did, you know, soften it and say like, okay, well, maybe just have a couple beers. Because really at that time, the thought of him only drinking a couple beers sounded like a dream. Like. And so, and I, and that felt impossible. So, yes, I'm sure it was.

wasn't, but the, like, I knew the truth that he did have to quit. Because the thing about Mike, and he now knows this about himself, he can't just have two beers. Well, yeah, the thought of only being able to have a couple beers is that that sounds fantastic, but it's just not me. Yeah. You know, like if I was one of these lucky people that could just have one beer a week, fucking great. Yeah.

but it's just not me. It's just not who I am. Why is that? Because I'm Frank the tank the minute it hits my lips, right? Yeah. Why is it? I don't know. I think it's not to sensationalize the journey,

but it's the whole kind of gradual drinking session that appeals to me, you know, that kind of gets me. And I have one, I need two. I have two, I need four. And four is not enough because I'm halfway there type thing, right? So when do you feel like, when do you feel like the fun slipped away? Or was it always fun for you, even at home and everything else? Again, when I started drinking alone, that's where it became more of a mission than a celebration, you know?

And then that sort of changed kind of how I felt about myself, how I kind of coped with things. But yeah, drinking alone was a real kind of eye-opening time. Yeah. How did that, like, if you're okay sharing, like, how did that shift happen with how you felt about yourself? like that internal because I know there's a lot of people too that they don't hit this external rock bottom right their life doesn't blow up for the world to see but they share this interesting story about many and many of rock bottoms on the inside of knowing they're coming up short of knowing that they're going against sort of a lot of things that they believe and they're going against

the way that they'd like to be able to show up in the world and this big thing is in the way and they can't see past it how did you feel? on the inside. Yeah. Wow, I've never heard you hear her to say that. I had come to peace with that. Yeah. I didn't know, I didn't know what, what it looked like, but I accepted it.

You know, and you never know how long you can carry on. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, and it had gotten to be that much that when I did leave, it was kind of I had to, I had to accept that that was a possibility and that was why, like, there was no, he was not going to quit if I didn't leave, I don't think. And, and, and the only alternative was he was going to eventually die. Or do something terrible. And I just couldn't keep our kids there to witness it. So that's how, that's where we got. It was that I had to put the girls first and get out. So a month later. A month later. Yeah.

So a month later, yep. So Mike did cut back, which actually really did help his, his kind of detox journey, because he almost detoxed himself a little bit throughout that month. So he did try, you know, he drank beer most nights and not whiskey every night. And then, and so I was positive and I was thinking, okay, things are going to be, we're going to be able to do this. He's going to eventually quit. And then it was literally, so it was October 30th.

I came home and he was already drunk. It was like 5.30. And he had had however many whiskeys and the kids and him were carving pumpkins. And I'll never forget it. It was like kind of like a scene from shameless, like that, you know, the show. And I, but it was my life. And I was like, okay, we can't do this anymore. And so, yeah, the next day, Halloween, I went to, I had reached out already to a lawyer.

I had been seeing a therapist, so I was lucky that I had resources. And kind of they walked me through the steps and said, like, yes, you have to leave. So this was on a, on a, like a Wednesday. And I left on the Friday. So it was really fast. And we were, you know, he was in a. really like bad place. Like it was a crisis situation. Um, and I had to get the girls out. The girls were five and seven at the time. So they were still little. And, you know, they didn't know what was

going on, but they also were living in a very toxic house for a long time. Right. So. Yeah. Well, what were your thoughts, Mike? While all of this is happening. Um, I denied the fact that I still was in denial of that that I had a problem for one and I I called in my head I called Chris's bluff that she'd never do that um and I just thought you know it's her fault like deal with yourself he was really angry very angry yeah and Feeling really, like, physically terrible, too. You know, like, at that point, I really started to feel the effects of, like, the constant intoxication, you know, like, I hadn't been to a doctor for years prior, you know, but I could

just feel my health really starting to slip, you know, the nausea, like, the, the, the shakes, the anxiety, the, as Chris mentioned, like, I had no patience. I had no patience for myself. I had no patience for the kids. I had no patience for anything. The sleep. You weren't sleeping. I wasn't sleeping. You know, like I was passing out and not sleeping. There's a huge difference. Yeah. Yeah. Does any of your friends mention anything or anyone else? Yeah, yeah. You're close. He had his two close. He had his two close. closest friends that he grew up with. Yeah.

So they had, and we were close, and I had reached out to them, and they had said things over time. So the people close to us had, you know, new. Yeah. Like there was one instance in that, you know, that summer or fall where his, his friend Ryan called and said, you know, like, come get Mike. He's passed out in our backyard on a rock. Like, and that's just like when you're, you've got young.

kids and you're in your 30s? Like that's too far, right? And so they started to say, okay, whoa, there's a problem. So when I made the decision that I was going to leave that Wednesday, that week, I called them and I said, you know, he's going to need you because the kids were my priority. And I didn't know what was going to happen once I left. I didn't know what he was going to do. And, you know, the thought of that was terrifying and I needed them to be there for him. And my my personality over the over those years, it changed from like funny and energetic and enthusiastic. And I still have a dry sense of humor. But it flipped from all of those kind of cool mic personalities to, man, this guy's just an asshole.

You know, and that was me. You know, so my friends, they, they dealt with me. but like he was no longer fun i was yeah i was just an asshole yeah yeah right because because i had no joy the only time i was happy was knowing that there was another drinking session yeah so you'd but in this last stretch here too you're drinking every day oh yeah yeah yeah a lot a lot yeah so where do we go where do the two of you go from here then so you you leave and mike You've kind of, yeah, now it's here what you didn't think would come, right? He came home from work and the girls and I were gone.

And that was, that was a rough day. Yeah, it was probably the hardest day of our lives. It was a 3,000 square foot home and it was absolutely silent. The silence was deafening. I walked in and we, in our foyer entryway there, there's a set of stairs. And I walked in, I looked around, and it was silent. And I sat, sat on the stairs at the front door.

And at that point, I kind of broke down, but I didn't know the significance. I was still numb. I was still like in denial. But I did have like a moment of, oh man, like this is my life now. Like this is what I had done. This is all my fault. And for the first, that was probably the first time in my life where I'm like, holy shit, I did this. My actions affected my family, my kids, my, like this is, I did this.

And I was sort of a, it was a moment. And I can vividly remember sitting there thinking, I did this. I have no one else to blame except for myself, which is like powerful, terrifying. And the next thing I did was go grab a beer. Yeah. Which, I mean, I guess if somebody didn't understand the whole addiction piece of this, that would be like, wow, maybe that doesn't make a lot of sense. But when that's all you know, that's all you know.

At the time. Yeah, I mean, if that's what you're using to cope and that's what you're doing every day. but it sounds like anyway it was kind of maybe a flash in the pan in a sense of like hey something is up here you do have a part to play in everything going on around you yeah

yeah he had that thought and then he got mad and he drank that weekend that was a rough weekend so are you guys still talking you guys are still like communicating then or yeah yeah not not like happily that weekend.

No. You know, and he, we were lucky that we have really, a really good support system. Both are like our parents. My mom was there through all of it for me. And, you know, his parents took the girls on the night, the day we moved into the apartment so that I could get it set up before I brought them there. So I actually signed a year lease. I got an apartment because, again, I was, I was coached.

and told that my mom lived up the street from us. So I really could have just gone to her house. But that would not, I would have gone back because, you know, you get sick of living in someone else's space and it just wouldn't really, you know, be real. Like show, say like this, I'm not doing this anymore. So as terrifying as it was to literally like sign a lease and move the kids into a different home and all of that, again, like it was the worst day of her life.

but looking back, it was the best thing that could have ever happened. Because I don't think you would have quit if we didn't leave, if I didn't leave. And it would have ended probably far worse. And so that night, that Friday night, my buddies came over. And, you know, like they're regular dudes. And, you know, they'd say, Mikey, you got a problem. Like, Mike, you should stop. And one friend said, like, dude, look what you did.

This is a close friend of mine. Look what you did. And like that kind of. And they wouldn't drink. So he was drinking and they just were there with him. They didn't drink with him, which is also a hard, hard reality. Because they're big drinkers and partiers. Yeah.

They were my boys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. But that meant something to you, like them mentioning sort of like, hey, this is the reality right now or how things are going? It did. It did mean something to me because, like, I still hadn't accepted any of it.

Like, I hadn't accepted that I was the problem. I hadn't accepted, like, the reality of the situation. I hadn't, like, I was still processing, like, what does this look like? Where do we go from here? Like I was almost at a crossroad where, and this is, and Chris will probably talk about this, where I could have gone one of two ways in my, in my life, meaning I could have turned left and continued or choose to turn right and address this head on. And with friends, family, looking at.

at my children, looking at Chris, like, I chose right. And that Sunday, so two days later, that Sunday night is where it stopped. You had his last beer. I had my last beer. So three days after this whole episode. And it was literally, and it could have, like I said, it could have gone one way or another. And, um, yeah, November 4th, 2018. He had his last year. I think. I think on the Monday or the Tuesday, I went to the doctor and really, you know, started like, started my sober journey. Yeah. Wow. What, I mean, what happened in that time frame?

Like, is there a finger to put on something? Or was it Chris leaving that you're like, I've got to look at this differently? It's serious now. Was there an internal shift of some sort? It It Oh, Brad

It was It was about I just sat there On Saturday Like a day and a half in And I didn't want to be that person anymore I didn't want to have like

An alcoholic I didn't want my kids to have an alcoholic dad I didn't want to have like the reputation of, of this guy chose the bottle over his family. I didn't want to have like, I didn't want to feel shitty anymore. I didn't want to feel hung over anymore. Like, I'd done enough damage, you know.

And it wasn't bringing any positive. Certainly at that point in my life. It wasn't, it was just doing nothing but negative. And that's, that, it was hard. It was, it was, and again, one of these moments where I'll never forget where I had this choice. And I'd done so much damage and hurt so many people that it was time to fix myself. Yeah. Yeah.

And unfortunately, with addiction, it's, it's, it's, it's the, the only disease where, a lot of times the only way you can help people is by leaving them. And that was what was so hard for me that I had to finally just walk away and put the girls and myself first and say, and then it was, what was going to happen was out of my control. And I didn't know what he was going to do. I didn't know if he was going to just keep drinking. I didn't know if he was going to, you know, yeah, drink himself to death, say, glad you're gone. I didn't know. I had no idea. Now, I could have never predicted what the way it played out ever. Because when I left, I still, I loved him. I didn't like him anymore. And our

relationship was so far gone that I never imagined us, our relationship coming back. I hoped that he could be a dad eventually and be there, you know, have a relationship with the girls. I never dreamed that our relationship, we would get our relationship back or like a way better relationship in the future. I never dreamed that. I could have never imagined the journey he would go on. Or probably that you'd be on the suburb motivation podcast as well. Never, ever. Yeah. No. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

I think it's just, yeah. I mean, I think for anybody who's listening to that Chris might be in your position, too, if you have somebody at home or, you know, something. I mean, everybody's going to go about it different and it takes time and you did work and connected. It sounds like anyway, connected with the right people that could help support you and guide you because you're right. When you make that decision of I'm moving out with the girls, you, not that I think,

I don't think things were probably controlled. controllable before that, but maybe it feels like we're kind of in control because we're a watchful eye on things. Like they're probably out of control. But yeah, you don't know where it's going to go. No, no. And you're blowing up not only our life. It was, you know, our two kids, their life, right?

And so the grief and the guilt and the fear that went along with that was like it was more than I could have ever imagined or ever explained. You know, we still get choked up thinking about that period of time because it was so, so hard. So hard. So hard goes out to any people in that situation with separation and addiction. And when you throw children into the mix, it's so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a lot of moving parts at that point. Yeah. Mike, you go, you mentioned November 4th. You go and see your doctor. Yep. Yeah, and the doctor's results were actually pretty amazing, meaning like, well, they weren't fantastic. Oh, no, no, my, my, my levels were okay, you know, like, like, like,

physiologically, like, no, yeah, like, physiologically, like, my doctor's like, you know, you got a bit of a fatty liver, but, you know, you're doing all, you're doing all right. You're bionic man. But, again, my body, my body was fine. but my brain was very, very, very, very sick. Yeah. And there's a huge, huge difference between a sick brain and a healthy brain. And that's, so my body was okay.

It would heal itself as long as he stayed off the alcohol. Yeah. But my brain was the organ that needed some work and some help. And so that's my family doctor kind of. recommended a few addiction therapists and I think maybe on the next day or the day after kind of right around that time I went to AA for the first time so between going to AA and starting that and getting connected with a addiction therapist and starting that I was start my my road to

sobriety and recovery was in motion. Very, very quickly. Just, you know, within... We were very lucky. But the other thing that, you know, it's not like the movies where you say you have a problem and then you can go to rehab the next day with your suitcase and off you go. And it's not like that. So when he went to our family doctor that Monday, she was able to get him on a list.

He was supposed to go to Homewood. But the first bed that opening was just. January 1st and this is November 4th or 5th. So it was going to be a two month wait. And I was, I was like, oh, he can't wait that long to get like treatment or therapy, you know. So our doctor was really good and gave us a list of a bunch of therapists that specialized in addiction. And again, it's so hard to get in. Our mental health system is so difficult. So I just started calling and we found this one practice that had a doctor who had literally just graduated so he didn't have a full patient list. To be, the truth is, Mike was actually, I think, one of his first patients. And he didn't want to

take Mike. He's like, no, he's too sick. I'm not ready. And so I called him and got on the phone and cried and pleaded and begged him to meet Mike one time. And so Mike went and met him, he agreed. And it turned out to be the best thing ever. So. he started seeing this therapist in the beginning it was like two two times a week like intense therapy which made a huge difference and so we were lucky like that literally started he was maybe a week and he started therapy um and so that that was big and i was continuing to go to and he was going to a yes yes he was going to a yeah that's incredible how are you feeling mike i mean all of a sudden and three days here, things in your life are completely different.

You've shifted from the denial aspect of everybody else is the problem and there's, I'm doing okay to now Chris leaving with the kids and now you're going to therapy and AA. It sounds like all in a couple of weeks time. I mean, at what point do you realize like, wow, this is, this is really, you know, I got to really do something about this. Well, for the listeners, understand that your brain and like the dopamine hits and the happiness, that takes a while to kind of re-regulate, you know? So I was still at that point kind of numb, still kind of like trying to figure out where to go from here.

But I took, you know, it's an old, old saying. I took one day at a time and I would go to therapy after work. And remember, I'm still gainfully employed at this point. Still going to work. Still going to work. After work, I'd go to therapy. And little by little, these little baby steps of progress about how I felt about myself. I was starting to like, okay, wait a minute.

You know, like, the drinking is behind me. I can do this. I don't know what my family life will be like. I was still sort of resenting Chris for leaving. But I kind of could see a little bit of personal change because I was starting to own my mistakes. I was starting to accept my mistakes. It was sort of like that grieving process, you know.

But I sort of come to peace with what I had done and what can I do to move forward? You know, how do I, how do I, at that point, not fix it, but how can I kind of start living a more positive life without booze? Yeah. So it was exhausting. It was intense, like intensive. The one thing, you're, like, you start sleeping better.

right so like you get you get more more rest so you wake up feeling better so like all those little changes it kind of added and kind of helped you know because for 10 or 15 years I would wake up feeling hung over and brutal to wait a minute this is how you're supposed to feel and so then then you do get a little bit of a sense of positivity you know yeah yeah Yeah. He lost a lot of weight. So physically that changed. He lost about 30 pounds in four weeks. So it was like... In four weeks, wow. Yeah. Yeah. He physically changed. It was a lot. But initially, the changes he was making, he really wanted us to come home, obviously. So he was doing these changes to get me to come back and me and the girls to come home. And I just knew that that's not going to stick. that you can't, and I knew it, and he didn't know it at that point. So this is like, you know, November into December, Christmas comes around.

Christmas is really hard with separated lives, with kids, you know. So I brought the girls home and we did some Christmas at the house. And then I realized, like, this is not, we can't go back here. Like, this is too soon. And I could see that he was making those changes. to make me happy and to make the kids happy. And that wasn't, that wasn't going to stick. And so into January, I started moving forward with divorce steps and talking about selling

the house and figuring life out as, you know, a separated family and trying to figure out how we were going to co-parent the kids. And he was still not drinking. He was doing therapy and it was great. But I think that was when it really, the shift really started. to happen was in January. So it's three months later. Yeah, he he started to see that, you know, I was, I was done. And him changing for me wasn't going to bring me back. And so then he started changing for himself. And I was actually afraid at that point. I remember being scared that

he was going to start to drink again because it was kind of like, well, if she's not going to come back, then what's the point? And I was afraid that was, that shift was going to happen. So he was again faced with another decision. Do I keep doing this for me and like as a father and for my kids? Or do I just say screw it? But thankfully you didn't. Yeah. Is that like how it was going for you, Mike?

I mean motivated to get the family back and, you know, bought in for yourself as well, but maybe not all the way there. What are your thoughts? 100%. I couldn't accept that. this was what my life was going to be, right? Like, I couldn't accept that I was going to be a divorced dad that, that, like, ruined my marriage.

Like, that was something that I wasn't at peace with. And so, 100%, like, I think that's the natural, the natural feeling is to get back what's familiar, you know, get back to what we had and realizing that Chris wasn't going to come back. I was left with a choice and that was something that my therapist prepared me for was the next chapter. You know, like he basically said, listen, man, like your marriage is done, but your role as a father is not.

So you sort yourself out and focus on that. Focus on being the best divorced dad on planet Earth. And that was sort of the biggest motivator. You know, like I had wrecked my marriage, but I still had a chance to be an amazing dad. Yeah, 100%. So the two of the two of us, of you are, you know, we're at this part in the story, but the two of you are obviously back together.

Now, how did that happen? At least, at least in the podcast episode, how does it all work? I mean, Chris, you pick up on that, you know, maybe Mike's making a shift or or change with things. And then, yeah, Mike's, I mean, doing the work that needs to be done. I think this is too, before we maybe even scoot there, these 90 days, 120 days, 180 days. I think a lot of people go back to drinking in this space because the expectations of the journey are not met. Everything hasn't fallen into place. I haven't called all my wishes. What other people are talking about isn't coming true for my life.

I've still struggling with so many different things. And I think it's very easy for people to say, you know, that the one liner is old as time, right? I'll just have one beer. One won't hurt, you know. And maybe the first time it doesn't, but it seems to go from there. So Mike hung in. It seems like you picked up on that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So he he did. He didn't. I was afraid that once I started, you know, pushing to move forward with the divorce, that he would, he'd start drinking. And, and he didn't. And so, you know, that was kind of January, February. And we started, he started.

And it was, you know, it was little things. It wasn't one gigantic thing. it was I started noticing that he just was more attentive. So he started taking the girls for, you know, an evening or a day or and then it got to a weekend. And he was paying attention to ordinary details that he never did before. You know, he remembered to bring snacks or he asked simple things. Like he would ask how I was feeling. Like it sounds crazy.

But when we were in that kind of numb world, he, we didn't talk like that. He didn't have the capacity to think about those things when the alcohol was part of the game. And so over time, I started to notice this. And, you know, the idea of being a single mom and facing the challenges of co-parenting. And, you know, I have a whole new respect for divorce and separation. It is so hard. And so I was facing that reality.

So he was getting to a point where I felt. confident that he was going to be healthy and be able to, you know, be a dad for the girls, but we were still going to be divorced parents. And I actually hit a real wall in like March, where I got really depressed and because our life had blown up. I was living in an apartment. I was now a single mom, you know, Mike was doing so much better. I just didn't know what was next. And kind of March, April, he started, we started to have some really good conversations. and he suggested that, you know, we have a lot of tools in our toolbox now, and we're going to obviously have other relationships.

We were young. We're not going to be alone forever. And where do we want to use those tools? Do we want to use them, you know, to try and do that together and raise our kids together? Or are we going to use them in new relationships and then have to navigate co-parenting forever, basically, right? It's not when you have kids with someone, you can never just say, see ya. and they're always going to be in your life. And so it was like April, May, we started all over.

And he suggested we start dating. And so he would literally like pick me up at the apartment and we'd get a babysitter and we'd go on a date. And it started as simple as that. And it, you know, people often ask me like, how did I go back and the trust and when you're, you've gone through that. It's so scary the idea of it ever happening again because I don't know that I could survive that again. But he was a new person.

We were both new people. And so basically we just started over and our marriage. We didn't go back to our marriage. We basically started a new marriage and started with new. There's a lot of not romantic things that you do your second. time around, like write a contract. Like, this is what I need. This is what you need.

And it sounds really, it's not, there's no romance there, but it's, it's real. And it has to function in real life. And obviously the drinking was a non-negotiable. Like you can't drink. That's not going to be. And at that point, he couldn't imagine drinking. Yeah. And at that point, I had some, some conversations.

with friends. And you mentioned starting back up, Brad. My closest friends were like, man, like you're so much better not drinking. You know, like you're, you're, you're, you're sucked when you're a drunk. Yeah. You're awesome now. But that was also, that's a real fear.

Oh, yeah. So Mike, you know, was really worried about how, and I was too, because he was so, not in like when things got bad, but he was the, party guy. He was the fun guy and I was like, I didn't know how he was going to be the fun guy without the alcohol and he didn't either. And that's a real, the identity part's huge, finding your. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that catches a lot of people that keeps them stuck for some time, you know, who am I going to be without it? Who am I going to be without alcohol or sort of a reinvention, like a reinvention of who can I be now or what can I, right?

on becoming. How did your friends though? The friends, it sounds like anyway, friends are good. They're not worried. They're happy you're not drinking. This is great. Frank to tank. They were sober. They were super supportive. And the thing is like at that point, I could be a chauffeur, you know, like I could drive them around. They could, they could do their thing.

I could pick, I could, you know, we'd go out and they'd have a safe drive home. And life was good. It was fine. It was good. Yeah. And Mike was always adamant that no one else has to stop drinking because he's not drinking. Yeah. That was a thing too where people initially feel uncomfortable like, oh, I shouldn't have drinks

around. And people would always ask me like, oh, do you drink in front of Mike? And that was never a thing. He always, you would be upset if people didn't drink because of you. Yeah. I felt uncomfortable if people felt uncomfortable. And my sober journey was I always wanted to be able to walk. into a restaurant and order a Diet Coke or whatever.

I always wanted to walk into a bar. I always wanted to have friends, family, have beer. And it was just something I didn't do anymore. Like, I understand the drinking culture. I understand the tradition of it all. But I just didn't want to participate personally. I knew it existed. And I didn't want to, like, become a recluse and or become a preacher about,

it. That was not who I wanted to be. I wanted to just not do it myself. To this day, it doesn't bother me. Like, I have, I have beer in the fridge for friends, you know, like, it doesn't bother me at all. But that was on my list of, like, kind of personality reinvention that, that I chose, you know? Like, yeah, yeah, you still wanted to be able to be around it. I mean, to kind of exist in our world, today and say, I don't want to be around alcohol. Like, I don't know that there's a whole heck of a lot of places you can go. It's so interesting, though, because I think maybe relatable with you, but I think a lot of people are like, my biggest hurdle is the alcohol.

My problem is the alcohol. And then in that story, you share there. You go into the bar, you have it in your fridge. It's not like, that's the problem. But I think when we're drinking and we're in those early stages or even before we quit, we're like, alcohol is my problem. I just removed the alcohol and everything, you know, the magic is on the other side. I think what most of us figure out is that alcohol wasn't the problem.

There was some reason why when, and I think, and this isn't the simplest of terms, when consequences started in my life, I didn't want to quit. I couldn't quit. When consequences started in my friend's lives, they changed to how they were doing it. They cut back. They were okay with that. For me, it took a lot of, like, banging on the head of, hey, like, you can't just have one or two because it was never about the alcohol. It was, I was looking to change the way I felt.

And that did the trick. And then I felt like, oh, yeah, man, I am, you know, really cool drinking guy, you know. What about for you? Yeah, I'm the same. It was a drug I used to, like, amplify my. my personality, but as far as having it around, like, it, it wasn't alcohol, you're totally right. Alcohol wasn't the problem. It was like the catalyst of, you know, like it wasn't the liquid itself. It's what it, what it did to me and what it did to, you know, my family. Yeah, and what you were using it to not face.

Yeah. You know, that's, that's the thing is it was, it was numbing. Like, you talk about, how much you had to, you feel and see and you have to learn how to feel and see that without the alcohol. Like, like, even as simple as a, as a, as a, as a cold. I remember the first time he got a cold after he quit drinking. And he, he just couldn't believe how terrible he felt. And like, you know, when you raise little kids, you're sick all the time. And he had gone through those stages, but he was, he was drinking. So he, he didn't feel half the time, you know. And, and the same thing with, with sadness and all of it. He was able to just, you know, numb it all out and, and not feel stuff.

And so that's a shift when you stop drinking. Yeah. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. Feel it to heal it. Correct me if I'm wrong here, either one or both of you. When this all went down, you didn't envision sharing this story. It would have felt like something maybe you wanted to keep.

a secret, maybe not let everybody know. And I think that there's a lot of people that go through stuff and they're like, you know, let's just kind of do the best we can here and kind of move on. And, you know, like, let's not let everybody know kind of things. If that's true at all, what's inspired you to share this story? So I had no interest in talking about this. Even while this is all going on, I don't think people kind of outside of my, my my core group even knew it was happening. There were signs that I was, you know, started to live a little bit better,

but I kept it completely compartmentalized to the kind of facade of who I was. So I had no interest in sharing it. Like I didn't want to. Like I wanted to keep it. That was personal. So how we ended up here. Well, we, so not wanting people to know is what also kept us in that terrible situation for longer than we should have.

It made it longer for me to leave because I didn't want people to know because there's so much shame around it. And that's what's so hard. But really, I think it's a far more common problem than, people let on because no one wants to talk about it because of the shame with addiction and mental health and everything. So that's for sure why I stayed. Part of the reason I stayed because of the fear of people knowing, once I left and, you know, our circles knew, I actually, that was actually, I was relieved that it got out because I no longer had to pretend. And then for me, Um, leading up to leaving and then through that whole terrible, those dark years, I really did

search for stories similar because I needed to feel like I wasn't alone. I wanted hope. I would, you know, scour the internet for stories of, you know, people that survived it, for marriages that survived it for people that were able to quit alcohol and, and, you know, be a parent. Um, so when I did leave, I did kind of make an internal promise that I hoped we would share our story someday to help other people, but I never dreamed it would look like this. What I thought is maybe Michael go speak at a meeting down the road. I could go speak at an Al-Anon meeting. I thought it would look something like that because I could have never imagined the journey of the business and then where that's taken us.

Did I ever dream that, you know, we'd be talking on social media about it? No. No. No. And Never, never. Never. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. Which, yeah, I see so much truth to everything you shared there is the secrecy part, not wanting to share with other people to shame. For you, for Mike, for everybody involved, for anybody out there who's going through this, that part keeps us stuck. You know, but it's like the addiction wants us to be isolated, to be alone. Even in Mike's story there, when did things shift? When I started drinking alone, alone, alone, quiet, not sharing.

not talking. It's like being in jail at times without even maybe realizing it. The denial with everything. I'm just so happy for the two of you and for sharing your story. I mean, what's it been like, Mike? I mean, you look back in eight years. Like, what do you take away from that, man? Are you surprised? Well, for the listeners, after a while you forget to keep track, right? Like, every so often I have to remember how long it's been. I just, I'm not, I don't, I don't have like a date on the calendar. It's just, you sort of begin a new part of your, your life. I can't believe how much I've grown since then also. So one of the things that my, my, therapist and myself talked about was he basically said, Mike, you've got to grow up. You have to grow up.

You have to, you have to like own what you did, move on, but this is the next stage of your life, you have to be a grown up. I'm like, okay, cool, I got this. And from there, I kind of, I realized that like that was the old me. This is the new me. How can I be the best version of myself? And it kind of leads us to the next chapter of the story. But eight years, it's crazy. I don't miss it.

It's the best thing I've ever done. Like listeners, if you want to get sober, if you want to quit your habits, do it. You won't regret it. It's the best. Like that's my sound bite about that. Like the sound bite, yeah. Yeah, and the journey of, you know, the business.

So like four years into Mike's being sober, we found non-elk. And then non-elk, which then led to us starting the business with, you know, selling non-alcoholic drinks. Because that was a real discovery and also changed the way that he could socialize and we could socialize. and it has helped us grow and also share our story because the business, it's incredible how many people show up at our house, email us, call him and with their story, right?

So that also started to, it helped you be able to talk about it more. Yes. Because initially, he didn't want anything to do with sharing, you know, ever. Yeah.

That was, that was never going to happen. Yeah. I got that sense. I got that sense. I think I had reached out to you a while ago and I got that sense. of Mike is I think so or Mike yeah yeah Mike is not is not interested in sharing you know which is I well he wasn't very long time I wasn't comfortable I quickly became

the wise old owl in in the sobriety world amongst like my community people would ask me how you did how I do it you know what's the what's the trick what's the what uh what's the tactic. But as far as like talking about it publicly, talking about it, it was like a hard no. It was a hard no. Like there was other messaging behind the business.

Like as Chris mentioned, the quiet phone calls I would take from, from people and customers and stuff that we're wanting to share and talk. I would always do that. That was something I was really, really adamant. But as far as like public, no. I just wasn't interested.

It wasn't. No. It was. Yeah. And it's taken a long time. We, we, you know, we, the last four years, we've been working on, you know, writing a book just because we wanted our story in a book form. And so that process has been very therapeutic.

And I think that helped. It was also really emotional because it takes you back there. And sometimes you don't want to go back there because it was really, you know, hard. But. And then through that process, you've probably noticed on our social media the last probably sick. I think Mike came to me in the winter and said, okay, you've got to take a more active role in this social media. And, you know, that started what that looked like initially was just me making sure that I, you know, posted something every day and kind of took that over. And then I started to think about how it's such a, you know, powerful platform to share.

and, you know, for people who are looking for some sort of, you know, to not feel alone or whatever. So that has, and then, you know, through writing the book and then him feeling comfortable enough through that process, he started sharing on this crazy social media ride we're on. And so our kids hate it, like we said in the beginning. But it's all, it's been therapeutic for us. And it's, you know, it's, if it helps one person, you know, have the courage to do whatever, to leave or to quit, then it's, it's worth it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I often, I hear that a lot. Like if we can help one person. I think we do, though, in the process we help ourselves of like we're going against the grain. Yes. Yeah. Like we're going against the grain of what it was that kept us stuck in that spot for so long.

Of the shame or what are other people going to think. And I hear so many people share. I don't know if it's accurate in this sequence of events too, but the scary monsters never come to life of I quit drinking and then it's going to be like this and everybody's going to think I'm weird and nobody's going to want to talk with me and they're going to think I'm a horrible person. And yeah, yeah, none of the monsters really come alive. No.

No. It's actually the opposite. It's the opposite. Yes. You know, people congratulate you and, you know, talk about how great it is. And, you know, with Mike, people wanted to be around him more because, you know, he finally wasn't that drunk asshole anymore. Yeah. He's present and he listens.

And I redeveloped a level of kindness and a level of patience and a level of tolerance and all of those, like, amazing personality traits. They came, they slowly trickled back in. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, like, with what I did, I was a mentor. And that, you're right. Like, it started to, like, the personal growth started to, like, far exceed the, what booze was bringing, you know, like, it did the absolute opposite. It started to raise my,

comfort level about talking about what I'd been through, talking about what Chris and I had gone through. And then certainly as we progressed in the business, like just sharing more. Because I hope that my story is a beacon of hope. That's my goal now. It wasn't eight years ago. It wasn't it four years ago, you know, certainly publicly. Yeah, yeah, which is so, it's interesting. How does it feel, though? Is it feel good? It feels natural?

Like, this is, this makes sense? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, like, the story is still very sad. Like, we, again, we've been working on this book, and it still strikes a nervous. And even just sitting here doing this, like it does, it does. Not sad, emotional. Yeah.

I feel like it's not, it's not sad times for sure. But it's just emotional. And alcohol is an emotional thing. We have certainly learned that with the business and with non-al people. I feel almost every single person has some sort of relationship with alcohol. And there's emotions that go into it. whether they've known someone who has a drinking problem or they drink too much or they worry about how much they drink or they don't want to drink or it affects their health. Like there's always there's some sort of emotional relationship when it comes to alcohol.

Yeah. I still have a lot more to grow, you know, like I'm not, I'm not to your level, Brad. I'm getting there. We serve different industries. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I'm, dude, I'm just getting started, man.

So I've got room to grow and lots of opportunity too. I'm so curious, too, kind of as we head towards wrapping up. I mean, you guys can go back eight years, right? Jeannie tops out and you get a wish. I mean, do you change the way things played out or do you keep it the same? I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't change a thing either. No.

Yeah. And I'm actually really grateful for it, which sounds crazy. Yeah. Like, I live now like I'm the luckiest person on earth, which is pretty powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like hitting the lottery every morning.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're grateful. So you talked about prison and that I used to. describe what I was living. It was like living in a prison, you know, a prison to our marriage, a prison to the booze. And so once, when you've lived that and you felt that and you got out of that,

and then you now live in a life where we are free of that, the gratitude that you feel about the little moments. And we don't take anything for granted. So our relationship is so much stronger than it would have been if we hadn't gone through that, we always joke and say, you know, we kind of went through our midlife crisis blow up early because it was in our 30s. We just blew everything up early. And now we're kind of in that midlife and stuff's happening around us to people. And we, we, so we're lucky and grateful, I think, for the little things because we know what it's like not to have those little things.

Yeah. And not even realize. And that's one thing I've noticed to on the journey is the birds and and, you know, maybe a little rainstorm on the back deck and this, the sun and plants and grass growing. I lived the first 23 years of my life and I didn't appreciate a damn thing. I didn't know how to. And I thought I thought I did, but I just didn't. I had no idea. So what's the title of the book? Give us a quick as we officially wrap up here, the book, the designated drinks.

I see Mike's got the T-shirt on. He must have listened to the marketing department on this one. So people on the internet make fun of the fact that I have, I constantly wear. He only wears those shirts. Yeah. He has a lot of them. I have, I have like 50 shirts. I feel like Mark Zuckerberg where I just wake up and wear the same shirt all the time, just various colors, you know.

And like she, she of course dresses me. She's like, you're going on sober motivation. She's like, shave your head, shave your face, put on a good shirt. Like, sounds smart. Don't fuck this up. Like, yeah, yeah. Great advice. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So designated drinks, it was four years ago. We did that. We started that. And then that kind of has been a journey. And then over those, the last, you know, well, I started writing pretty much as soon as I left just as a therapeutic thing. And then Mike joined in with some writing about four years ago. And, you know, we just, you don't have the time or whatever.

Long story short, this summer, we finally finished it. It's called everyone gets a seat. And it's just everyone gets a seat how we lost our marriage. We built our family and found life after alcohol. So it's just the story of basically what we just told you, but of me leaving and then how we found our way back and what that looks like and then what life looks like after alcohol. Because it does look different.

You know, we're not going to lie to people and say like, there's there's times when you know I'd love to have a drink and be able to go and have party all night and then but we just know that you can't do that on Friday night and everything be normal on Saturday so we've let that part of our life go and you you grieve that yeah and and the book is is uh it's kind of testament that that it's okay to feel like having a beer, you know, every so often, but just don't act on it. Like, I still, eight years later, and I'm not sure about you, Brad, but I still have moments, certainly right around Christmas and often in the summertime where I think,

oh, this would be a good moment to have beers, you know? And the thing is, those moments, they kind of come and go, and they don't, they don't span for longer than 10 or 15 seconds. and you move on to the next thing. I don't know. Have you ever had, do you still have those moments, Brad? Or?

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's really for the beer. I mean, I think in the early days, I connected to a beer. Sometimes I just get uncomfortable when I'm around other people. They're drinking. You know,

people kind of make that shift, right, to where you know they're a pretty quiet person. Then they start drinking. They loosen up. Like, oh, man, they're having so much fun. I would like to do that. It's not as easy for me to do it on this side of things. So I'm like, yeah, I would love to have a beer and just not be so uncomfortable sometimes.

But I really coined it up to, it's not the beer. It's, that was always my vehicle to like, you know, fit in or feel comfortable. But yeah, I mean, of course, I see it everywhere at the beach. But I think in my brain, it just quickly plays the tape forward of like what you said. I mean, yeah, I could have some beer today. My life wouldn't fall apart. But like, do I want to start over from scratch just because I'm a little uncomfortable? Like, nah, I'm good.

I'm okay. I'll find something else to do. I'll go skip some rocks. I'm good. Absolutely. Well, and that's where the non-o-elke has helped too. Like, you can still have that cold beer in your hand and not have the consequences. Anything else you guys want to mention is the book available now or it's coming out soon?

No, it is available. It's actually available on Amazon right now. Yeah, everyone gets a seat. And it was just, it's again, back to that. I looked for anything. I would like buy books and look on the internet when I was in that place where I just felt so alone and I wanted to grasp at any hope I could find. And so that's what we hope that, you know, people might see themselves in that story or if you're thinking about quitting and, you know, it talks about, it goes back and forth between his perspective and my perspective. So kind of same situation and what he was thinking and what I was thinking and how we got to that place.

And it basically starts on the day I left and then kind of goes back and forth and talks about how we got there. Yeah. And yeah, for the listeners who are maybe going to buy the book or certainly listening to this podcast, like since I stopped, I've got a university degree. That's one. The second thing is I started a business. That's two. The third thing, we wrote a book that's three. And then the fourth thing, like, I'm able to talk about this publicly.

Well, and we got back together. Sitting beside my best friend. And so, like, those four things, I promise would have never happened. They would have never in a million years happened had I not made that shift into sobriety. They wouldn't have happened. Yeah. I can guarantee that. Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah, so if you want to make a change, it's possible if you want to do something incredibly positive with your life. The best way, the quickest way, the easiest way to do it is by quitting that bad habit and starting a good habit. Well, and you don't have to hit rock bottom to admit that you're out, you're drinking too much. That's the thing too, right? Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you don't have to. I feel like some people are, they could be waiting around for, you know, that signal.

But I think it's, I did a podcast a couple episodes ago about 13 lessons I've learned from 300 interviews. And one of the things is it's usually the quiet Tuesday morning that we, that people just decide, I don't want to drink anymore. A lot of people, the day they get sober, the night before, they never even were considering it. They never were like, tomorrow is the day. But I feel like so many times we're like, I'm getting sober on the first. I'm getting sober on Monday. I'm getting sober, but 95% of the stories I hear people the night before, they had no idea that that would be, I can't say that they're going to stay sober forever, but they didn't

know that was going to be the first day of what's brought them to where they are today, which is so interesting. That's crazy. I had no idea. Yeah. That is so cool. Yeah. It is, yeah, it's interesting.

Well, thank you guys so much for hanging out and enjoying the ride. I feel like it's a really emotional story where you can kind of feel it even virtually. But I think it's a beautiful one of how far that the two of you have come and, you know, doing all this stuff together, like cool stuff. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having us on. I'm so glad we finally connected.

Yeah. And it's so funny that you said the first time you knew that he wasn't ready because he wasn't. I wasn't ready. Yeah. Yeah.