Sober Motivation: Sharing Sobriety Stories - Will's Journey to the Brink: A Tale of Alcohol and Recovery

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

In this episode, Will shares his powerful story of growing up in a supportive family, his early struggles with alcohol in high school, and the progressive nature of his addiction. At 14 Will had his first drink and recalled the seamless transition as alcohol was normalized all around him. Alcohol would creep into every corner of Will’s life as he went through college and started his career as a teacher. Will never thought alcohol would take his life to where it did. One day his wife mentioned he needed to go to the hospital because he was not looking good and the visit would forever change his life. He was drinking himself to death. In the episode, Will highlights the importance of perseverance, self-awareness, and the support of loved ones when getting sober. Today, Will is sober and thriving, grateful for a second chance at life. During the entire struggle, Will held on to a sliver of hope and this is Will’s story on the Sober Motivation podcast. ----------- Will's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewillpowerpodcast/ Check out SoberLink: https://www.soberlink.com/recover Donate to support the show: https://buymeacoffee.com/sobermotivation Join Us on SoberBuddy Free 30 Day Trial: https://community.yoursoberbuddy.com/plans/368200?bundle_token=8d76ca38d63813200c6c1f46cb3bdbed&utm_source=manual

Welcome to season three of the sober motivation podcast. Join me, Brad, each week is my guests and I share incredible, inspiring, and powerful sorority stories. We are here to show sobriety as possible one story at a time. Let's go. How's it going, everyone out there? Welcome back to another episode. A little thought I had this week about where people are in their journey is, if not now,

when? If you're not going to get sober now and commit to doing the work that's really, required to stay on this path. When are you going to choose to do it? What needs to happen in your life or in our lives that we're going to get to a place that we're willing to put it all in the line to make the changes needed to be the people we want to be, the parents we want to be, the kids we want to be, the grandkids we want to be, or maybe the grandparents we want to be. And the reason I think that that is a really good question to do some self-reflection on is because you hear all the time. Well, if that happened in my life, I would definitely sober up. And then the

story goes on. And it's not always the case. The reality here is there's going to be consequences for a lot of us along this drinking journey or drug use journey. But it doesn't have to be that way. For so long when I struggled, I thought I was the only person who struggled with this stuff that nobody else would understand. And that was so far from the truth. I got in my own way and prevented myself from reaching out and accepting the help and changing my life. Until I did, but it was a long road and it was very painful and there was a lot of consequences in that journey. My suggestion out there to anybody who's back and forth on the fence here is make a decision for yourself. Commit to something, 30, 60, 90, 120 days.

You can really do that. In the grand scheme of life, 100 days or 30 days is not much. And if it really terrifies you, you have to look deep within. Why is it so scary to give up alcohol? What is it doing for my life? And I think what you'll find out is there's a lot more going on below the surface. And this is a great segue into the episode with Will, because Will hit on so many things at a deep level that were going on for

him internally in his life. And he was using drinking to cope with a lot of this stuff. So thank you guys for tuning in for another episode. I hope you enjoy the ride and I'll see you on the other side. In this episode, Will shares his powerful story of growing up in a supportive family, his early struggles with alcohol, and the progressive nature of his addiction. At 14, Will had his first drink and recalled the seamless transition as alcohol was so normalized all around him. Alcohol will creep into every corner of Will's life as he went through college and started his career as a teacher. Will never thought alcohol would take his life to where it did. One day, his wife mentioned he needed to go to the hospital because he was not looking good, and the visit would forever

change his life. He was drinking himself to death. In this episode, Will highlights the importance of perseverance, self-awareness, and the support of loved ones when getting sober. Today, Will is sober and thriving, grateful for a second chance at life. During the entire struggle, Will held on to a sliver of hope. And this is Will's story on the Sober Motivation podcast. It was vital in keeping me accountable. It doesn't interrupt my life. It only enhances my life.

People in my program swore by it. These are just a few quotes from Soberlink users. Soberlink is not just any breathalyzer. It's the breathalyzer designed specifically for those in recovery from alcohol addiction. How it works is simple. You'll test at the same time every day. A built-in camera will take a photo during your test so it knows it's you testing. Tamper sensors will flag any attempts to cheat.

And instant easy to read results are sent directly to your loved ones because it's not just about proving you're sober. It's about sharing your success, establishing patterns of trust and dispelling doubts with hard evidence. Soberlink proof of sobriety at your fingertips. Visit soberlink.com slash recover to sign up and receive $50 off your device. Welcome back to another episode of the Sober Motivation podcast. Today we've got Will with us. Will, how are you? I'm doing well.

Doing well. How are you doing? I'm good, man. Thank you so much for jumping on here and be willing to share your story with all of us. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's more than willing to share in my experience because it's been a rough one. So I'm glad to be here. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, awesome. So what was it like for you growing up? Yeah. So I grew up in the Boston area. I had a big family. I'm the youngest of four brothers. So it was pretty normal. Played hockey, baseball,

lacrosse, football, all that good stuff growing up. Yeah, it was pretty normal, honestly. I went to high school. And yeah, it was just a pretty normal upbringing, honestly. I had really good parents, super supportive. Everything that would constitute kind of like a healthy, you know, teenage adolescent years into. college years into where I am now on my mid-thirty. So it all started off great. Everything was

a good beginning, but it all kind of fell apart in the middle of there. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that too. And I did see a couple of the notes you sent me before too. You did mention, too, it was like very open in the house to drink alcohol, at least for other people and for your parents and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So where I grew up, it was super common to drink. God, started drinking when I was in eighth grade, man. It was pretty seamless. And I remember specifically the first time I actually tried alcohol, we would, we would just steal beers basically out of our parents' fritches and stuff like that. Pretty common. And I remember right away, which is crazy. I'm 14 years old. And I remember right from the jump, liking it a little too much. Like,

weirdly self-aware of how much I enjoyed the feeling of it. It felt like I was being me. I wasn't putting on like this facade that people typically do. And I really enjoyed the relaxing component of it. And I really enjoyed kind of like how it made me feel, how it made me socialize. It made it super, it was just super easy to kind of just talk to people and party and things like that. So it was just like a really seamless transition at a very young age. So I kind of knew from the jump that, oh, God, this is like a little too good and I like this little too much. And it was pretty much everywhere. So it was one of those things that it was very easy to kind of just jump in, hit the ground running with a really bad habit at a very young age. Yeah. And it's so interesting,

right? Because different people have a different connection or experience with that first time drinking. and for you it was already like yeah this hit man and I'm with you on that mine was later like I probably had a sip of beer or something here or there when I was younger was always like kind of a joke for the older people have a yeah it was disgusting but yeah the first time I actually got into it yeah was at like my first party I was invited to and then they get into it and it was like I felt like I was on top of the world man like oh yeah just plugged in and I had always up to that point felt really uncomfortable in my own skin. Me too. Yeah. So like for me, yeah, it totally opened up this weird, oh wow, I don't have to mask this personality that I have. I can actually be who I am. I loved who I was when I was drinking.

I was funnier. I was, well, this is all perceived, right? I was funnier. I was more clever. I was easy to talk to. It was just such like a social lubricant, as they say. And I just got lost in it. It was very easy as far as really getting comfortable with it from a very young age. Yeah. So as you go But through this 14, kind of getting into things, do you experience any consequences or any chats early on or things pretty innocent in the early days? Yeah, I would say it was pretty innocent. Honestly, all my friends were drinking, like, every adult that I knew during. So I just thought it was a part of life.

I thought he just kind of did it. It was so common to grab beers, go to your buddies' place, play video games, whatever. We drink before, like, school dances and stuff like that. It was pretty, pretty open. And my core group of buddies at the time, what everyone drank. So my older brothers, they all drank. So it was just a very seamless transition as far as it being really common and really popular a drug to get into.

And I didn't even see it as a drug because I just thought, sorry, so often that it was just like a part of life. And some people, it seemed to drink even more than I did. So I wasn't worried. There was everything seemed normal. Everything was just like where it needed to be and where it was supposed to be. and I didn't think that there was a problem, but as time would go on, I would learn very quickly that, oh, yeah, it was a big problem. It was a huge problem. Yeah. So you finish up high school. You're really involved in sports, too. You rang off a bunch of sports that you were doing. And I think when you're doing all that stuff, too, and you're doing well in high school that you're checking the boxes of things, right? So this isn't a massive red flag. What does the transition to college look like for you?

Yeah, so I go graduate high school. I'm a pretty good student, not great. Go to school in New Hampshire, a pretty big one. And actually one of the biggest ones. And it was a big party school. I picked it because I wanted to kind of get out of my comfort zone. Not, I think two people from my whole high school class went and I didn't, I wasn't even really friends with them really. So it was kind of like, okay, I'm going to have to force myself to socialize and force myself to get used to this cool college thing. And a big part of that, I was coming from a big drinking background and I was used to drinking. And I remember like getting to college and like meeting my roommates and them getting blacked out and me being like, what are these kids lightweight? What's going on here? What's the what's going on with them? Did they not drink in high school? As if that's the normal thing. Little did I know.

I wish I was in their situation because I came into it already having a pretty strong tolerance for it. And I knew even then, I'm like, this is like too easy for me to just drink. And I had a fake ID at the time, which was, you know, crazy. But I did. I was the guy that would buy booze for everyone, not for everyone, just for my core buddies. And then kind of just went from there. But yeah, I just remember being like really surprised at how much I could drink. Even at 18, it was pretty crazy.

Yeah. How does everything go for you with school then and with the partying? Did the lines ever get blurred there for you or no? Yeah. Not really at the beginning. It was pretty like, okay, drink. the weekends, Thursday was a big thing. I remember, yeah. But then, yeah, it started to become an issue. I started, like, noticing that I didn't want to go to class after a big, like, a big

night out. I remember waking up, and it was like the spring semester of my sophomore year. And I remember it was time to register for classes. And I started picking classes that were super late in the afternoon because I knew that if they were like 8 a.m. 9 a.m. 10 a.m. classes, I wouldn't get up. Like, I would just sleep through it, which was not a good habit to get into. And pretty strong indication, like a sign that, you know, this is becoming an issue. And it's something I need to like make note of. And I should have saw that sign right then. But I was too naive and too stupid honestly to notice that and to see that it was like some kind of a problem. Even at sophomore year college.

Yeah, which I definitely think that's common too, right? Because we believe, right, that it's just going to be for a certain amount of time or it's going to pass or, you know what I mean? We're going to be able to just kind of get through it. It's going to blow over. It's not a big deal. We believe that, I think, in the early stages. So how does the rest of the college look like for you?

Yeah. So my junior year, I go study abroad. My best friends and I, we pick what's the coolest spot. That's the part to go. when we pick Australia. So we're like, okay, this is going to be just one big party. And damn, I was right, man. It was just one giant party.

And I went from drinking on just weekends to now it was like an every other day, everyday occurrence. So it was fun. I'm not going to lie. The beginning part of drinking, that's the thing that people don't know and don't realize there's a lot of good times in the beginning. People wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun. It didn't relax you.

It didn't make you more sociable. It didn't make everything a little more enjoyable. And it's one of those things where I look back at now and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I didn't see the signs. I didn't realize it was going to be like that drinking every day. And then Australia and like being this like fantasy land basically and then coming back to New Hampshire and in the cold and it's like completely different. And then drinking kind of got a little depressing. Honestly, after getting coming back home from that study abroad trip. So it was it was pretty pretty crazy situation.

and be thrown back into my senior year. And I remember my senior year of college, like, I end up getting in this weird situation. I wasn't living with like immediate, like my close friends anymore. I had a housing situation where I couldn't move off campus because it was like a financial issue. I just couldn't afford to move off campus. So I had to stay on campus housing and I had to meet new roommates and that was awkward. So it was like a weird situation where I would drink to kind of cope with being kind of a little earth and a little.

frustrated with my living situation. So I started to drink more. I remember my senior year, but not to the point where it was causing any problems yet. That didn't come till later. Yeah. And what do you do after college? So after college, my father was a teacher for about 35 years and then he retired for two and then he went back into teaching for another seven. So it was a long process. So I always thought teaching would be a great. I saw my dad's life. He was like a a Hall of Fame coach and hockey coach. It was one of those things where I realized that seemed like a good life, seemed like a comfortable living.

You don't make it very much, but you also seems like the style of your life is a little more manageable. You get a lot more freedom. You got a lot more control of the things you want to do, like now during summertime, things like that. So it was like an easy transition as far as like finding that's what I wanted to do. And I remember realizing at that age, that it was easy for my personality to go into teaching.

It was talking and just became natural to me. So it was one of those things where I, something that I saw my dad do, and I was really excited to jump into it. Yeah, wow. So that's wild. So he retired and then went back. I think I've never been a teacher, obviously,

but I think, too, just being part of something in helping out the students and stuff has got to be really rewarding as well. Oh, yeah. It's the best job. We'll get into that. Everything that's kind of happened to me.

But it is like one of the best jobs. As far as feeling like there's something there, it's such an important job. And if you do it, if you enjoy it, it's a really rewarding one as well. Yeah. So did you get a job teaching rate out of college? Yeah. Well, I, so I subbed. I was a perm sub for the building actually at the high school that I grew up in.

And that was interesting to have my old teachers. And I'm teaching kids who were 18. from like four years older than I'm five years old than them. So it was like really weird to like bark orders at 18 year olds when I'm only like 22 getting bombed on the weekends like trying to be this role model person in not realizing the contradictory like thing and just being like this so oblivious to it at the time. But this first couple of years weren't bad. My drinking was manageable.

Like I was doing it too much. I was doing it every weekend, honestly. And it wasn't interfering with my work at all or anything like that. that. So that didn't come until later. Yeah, man, I'm just thinking of that as substitute teachers in high school. Is that a challenging position to show up for? We used to give them such a hard time. I know. I didn't too. I didn't too. I don't know what I was thinking. I was like, oh, this will be this will be Kate. But actually, we were like, my buddy and I would, he was a teacher too. He'll laugh if he ever sees this. But we would laugh about it. We would joke around about like how funny it

was that we were teachers now when we were the kind of like the jockey kids in class. So it was just funny. It was just really funny that I fell into it that way. But yeah, after a couple of years doing that, and then there's this test that you need to take to become licensed in Massachusetts. So I kept taking it in, I wasn't studying hard and I wasn't really studying for it as much as I should have. So I was a really delayed process of like actually getting my license in my full-time teaching

credentials like under me in starting. So it took longer than I expected, but where I did it. So here I am. Yeah. So during this time, this couple of years, that's kind of your thing is to go out on the weekends, kind of party and then you do this during the week. Was there any time in your story here where you thought to yourself, like one, this thing might be a little bit of a problem. And I know like problem itself is like loaded word in a sense, but there's anything here. And did anybody around you ever mention anything?

two questions there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, I remember my early 20s being, realizing I had a problem because I remember vividly, I remember like it was yesterday, like my core group of buddies actually sitting me down, which is I should have realized at that moment, holy shit, I have a problem. This is something I need to address like now, but I was too naive, too young to realize this is an issue. But I remember them sitting me down, looking me like dead in the eye, being like, This is where it was embarrassing what I would do. I would never know like the cutoff point of, okay, like I can drink this much up into this point. But then things would get blurry and fuzzy and hazy.

And then I would think we had a great time. Hey, man, last time was awesome, right, guys? And you were like, yeah, man, it was great, good time. Do you remember, like, falling asleep in the ATM? I remember I fell asleep in an ATM. And I popped my head up. And thank God, I, like, caught eyes with one of my buddies who was just, coincidentally walking out of the bar at the time. But like I was doing stuff like that.

I was like passing out in ETS. I would get so drunk that like I would have to get into a cab and go home and stuff. And I thought it was like funny. I thought I was like, hey, this is like a good time. Like I'm having a good time. Right guys? And I just remember them sent me down. And that was a major consequence because things would my personality would change. Like when I was like this easy to talk to guy, I was really fun, sociable just by myself. I didn't need the alcohol to. you kind of enhance it like I thought I did. And I had the social anxiety of meeting it because I felt we couldn't go out until we would pregame when the pregame got longer and longer to the point we would leave at 10 30, 1130, whatever, because the bars closed really early in Boston.

I don't know if you're familiar with that, but they closed super early. So we would get there. Pretty bombed already. And then we just kind of try to go out and mingle and try to like meet girls and stuff. But it was an issue already. It was already an issue from the beginning. I remember like my buddy sitting me down and looking me straight in the eye and being like, you're already our buddy. Like you're already our friend, man. You don't need to like black out like that all the time. And I was like, yeah, whatever.

And then I would do like bad things. Like I would do things that like I would take advantage of like putting beers on their tabs and stuff like that when I was drunk, which is something I would never do sober, take advantage of their friendship and stuff. So it made me like a bad person. It really did. Like it brought out like the worst in me. And I think it does bring up the worse than people.

And now that I'm sober. I've been sober for it's been a year and five months now, so it's been a long time. But I remember now that I am sober, I look back and I'm like, I thought I was like this funny intellectual, like very witty person when I was bombed. And it couldn't be more different. Like now that I, when I go out now, it's absolutely, it makes people fuzzy minded and it turns people into liars. It really does.

At least for me it did. And I didn't like that. and it was having consequences on my core friendships. And I actually lost a lot of friends because of it. I really did. I was really sad. To this day, we're not as close. I'm not as close with my buddies, my high school buddies as I was.

And we were very close. Like we were like a tight group. And because of my drinking, I lost good, solid friendships. And that's something I have to live with. It's some of the consequences that we have to live with as we get sober. And you try to make amends and you try to reach out. But it's awkward. And it's, there's a strange lingering feeling of letting your core group bugs down and feeling

like worthless because of it. Yeah. No, I'm with you on that. It seems like, too, as things progress, the risky situations we put ourselves in just goes up, right? And how dangerous it is. I look back at the times when I blacked out. Oh, my God. And in people the next day, yeah, I was kind of like you.

Yeah, that was great and everybody's not. That wasn't, there was nothing great about that. I remember, like, looking around and like seeing. other friends in the similar groups or whatever, and they would get hammered too. So I'm like, okay, I'm not that bad. I'm not at least I'm not like doing that. But I was doing that. It didn't like dawn on me. It didn't occur to me or I didn't care enough if I was too selfish or something to realize, no, this was happening like a direct consequence on my friendships. I should address this now. But, you know, hindsight's 2020. So I just didn't, I didn't realize it.

So it's, it's a crappy situation and I'm still dealing with a lot of the cleanup of it. But, you know, I can't say enough how just incredible it is to go from that to where I am. And we actually haven't even covered the really sad times. So I guess I'll get into that now. So when I lost my core group of friends, that was the turning point in my drinking career. So it went from fun, exciting, enjoyable, creating long memories that I'll never forget in positive memories, a lot of them, like most of them. and it went just down real quick.

It got real murky real quick and really depressing, really quick. That's when I started drinking alone. And that's, I think, the worst thing that if anyone was watching this, that's the worst thing you can do. Because once you make it okay to bring alcohol into your home and drink by yourself, that's one of these things that comes up with when you talk to people who are on this silver journey is that I'm on. A lot of them can relate to that because they realized that's when the issues, that's when the serious issues started taking place is when they started drinking by themselves

just to cope with life in general and to cope with the frustrations of losing friendships. I wasn't passing my licensure test to become a teacher. So I was just like dragging. I couldn't move out with my buddies were all moving out. I had to stay home with my folks, which was so embarrassing to be in your mid-20s and like living with your, your mom and dad. It was just one bad decision after another. And then you just used alcohol as a coping mechanism to deal with it and a stress release, stress release because it's just a really tough situation to be.

When you're depressed, and to pile on alcohol on top of it, it just spun out of control. And it was like that for God, from 25 to 30. It was just like five years of just me not getting better, me getting worse, progressively worse, and not realizing I had a problem, which is crazy. I think I knew I had a problem, but I wasn't ready to address it yet. I wasn't ready to face because then I have to call myself like an alcoholic. And that label, it was so disgusting. I just thought those were the biggest losers ever,

where the people that were labeled that and it would have to go to AA meetings and stuff. And I'm like, oh, those are just for weak people. But, you know, I couldn't have been more wrong looking back at it now. Yeah. So you're at your parents' place, too. Are they picking up on anything throughout all? What's crazy, man, I was very good at hiding. I was like extremely good at hiding. I would bury myself into my room. I'd put on like my laptop and just watch movies and get wasted like every night. But I was so subtle in my approach. Like I would still be able to, I would get drunk just drunk enough to be able to have coherent conversations with them. And when I was drinking, I felt more sociable. So I would talk to them. And another thing that was a big part of my drinking, my bad drinking behavior was there's no. good. My bad drinking behavior was it made boring things very easy to endure and to kind of get through.

So like when everything's the same every single day and you're just kind of like existing, drinking helps because it just made boring things easier. And those conversations that like I didn't want to have, I would one, not remember them the next day. And two, it was just easy to get through because alcohol was like a time machine. You drank to the point where it all of a sudden hours were just fly by and I would be sitting there. Oh my God, I've been sitting in my room drinking all night. It's 2 a.m. I have to get up and go to work tomorrow. And I didn't care. I just didn't care. I just kind of gave up. And then that just spiraled out of control to the point where it was just a huge issue. And then instead of to have health complications. And luckily when I was 28,

I met my wife now. She actually moved here as an au pair from Brazil. And we, met and she was the one that like saved my life because I was going down a path of no return. I was going down this intentional path of just self-destruction. I wasn't getting any trouble or anything like that, but I was slowly killing myself to the point where I was drinking myself to death, which is what happened. I drink myself to death. Yeah. What were you drinking at this point in time?

It started with my dad was a big whiskey drinker. and I was a big fan of the show Mad Men, believe they're not. So Don Draper would make it look cool. The drink like my dad would drink Manhattan's. Don Draper would drape old-fashioned. So I really liked the taste of Canadian club. One, it was super cheap. And two, it was like a ride.

So it was like a, like I thought it was like a good tasting. And I would put it in, look at me back. Oh my God. I would put it in bottles, hide it under my bed and drink it away. And it started with one, you know, like, like one of the big bottles, the later bottles, and then it just became one a week, then it became two a week, then it became three a week, to the point where I was drinking every day, every night, not at work or anything, but I was doing it every day and night to the point where I would just

get home from work. I couldn't wait to get home from work and just drank myself silly until I passed out just to make the day go by and make life-polarable. It was really depressing. It was a really dark place, super dark place. Like I look back at it like it was a different life because it really was like compared to how my life is now. So it was just, it was a very scary situation that I slow, it's, it amazes me how like just so how easy it was to get lost in the sauce, as people say. So it was just one of those things are just a very seamless transition into just abusing it, using it as a coping strategy. And no longer even using it as a. coping strategy, using it as a means of survival. That's how it felt. I needed it just to get through

the day. And then once I realized that I would stink of booze because of the way whiskey smells, I realize, okay, I got to scrap that. I got to find an alternative that doesn't stink. So I don't smell at work or whatever. And that's when I found vodka. And then that's what killed me was vodka. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, especially the heavy drinkers. Balka doesn't smell as bad. So you can kind of get away with having it and going out and not stinking, like reeking of booze, booze, like, well, booze, dark booze, which has a very distinct smell to it. I'm sure you remember that. Yeah.

Yeah. So it is so interesting in so many stories, right? It's that progressive thing that you start out at 14 and then here you are like 2830. when you kind of broke up with your friend group there that you started to drink on your own, that was really the big shift you noticed, the big transition maybe that happened in your relationship with alcohol at this point.

Yeah, it was huge, man. It was like that transitional shift of drinking socially to drinking lonely and by yourself is so dangerous and so... It's one of those signs that if everyone's watching this to realize oh God, like I do that. I'm starting to do that.

I'm starting to drink just to cope with life and just to drink by myself because it makes just like better. But you think it's making your life better because it's making time go back quicker and things less boring. But that can be further from the truth. Something I learned in recovery is that, you know, sitting with your feelings, sitting with the things that are bubbling you and actually meditating and being very transparent with your feelings is the only way to get over anything.

So once you take booze out of the equation, you can really start doing the work in doing it honestly and truthfully and feeling good about yourself because when you're drinking, I was lost, man. I was completely in a day's. I wasn't even living. I look back at my drinking career and I think, oh my God, man, seven, eight years straight. Just no progression, not evolving, not becoming a better person, losing friendships. Your relationships just get absolutely shattered because you're not present. And you're not in the moment. You're not there.

And then it gets really bad because you stop picking up the phone. And when you stop picking up the phone, something happens. There's a, you know, there's a consequential shift in your brain chemistry that you no longer want to associate with the world. You just want to bury yourself and cover everything up with alcohol. And I really want to touch her on this point. When I met my wife, when we started dating, I wasn't fixed. I was still very broken. And she was naive to the fact that I was.

was drinking by myself still, even with this wonderful person comes into my life. It starts making me a better person and I am still so attached to this one drug that I can't get off of it. And I was too ashamed and too bottled up to even come out there because one, it was a new relationship and two. We didn't really know each other that well. So she didn't know my mannerisms when I was sober and when I was drunk. She really couldn't tell the difference between the two because I was really good hiding it. So it was a very long process as far as becoming the person I am today. It just blows my mind to look back at those years and not see the signs and not realize I had an huge issue just from the beginning. Yeah. So when did the medical stuff really start to

hit? Yeah. So I remember feeling super lethargic. Like I couldn't get up in the morning. I'd get to work and I would just be useless to the point where I started jumping from school to school. So in Massachusetts, like I was saying earlier, you need a teaching license to teach in public schools, which is what I wanted, but I couldn't pass the test because it was an active addiction. So I would basically not study and not try to get better. And then I would just jump from private school to private school.

Basically every couple of years jump from one to another because I didn't realize at the time that, you know, I was like, oh, I, I. I can still hold a job down. I'm fine. I would still hold the job down, but I noticed a pattern. Every two, three years, I would have to go to a different school because I was basically just not welcome to be there anymore. Not because they would fire me, but I would just not do enough work to get rehired. And I would lie. I would tell people that, this is my decision that I'm doing this. And I would tell myself that, which is like the scariest part. Like, I was in such denial that I would tell myself that, no, this is my choice.

I'm doing this. Whereas I didn't realize the upahal was just completely covering me up and not letting me do a good job at work. So it got really dicey there at the end. And then the health stuff started happening. So I noticed that my stomach was all messed up. I was like, oh, I must have irritable bowel or whatever. And I did.

I went in to get some labs done. And they were like, oh, my God, your Billy Rubin levels are off the charts. If people aren't familiar with that, it's your liver enzymes are taking such a hit that they elevate. So all your liver enzymes elevate to an unhealthy place. So in 2019, my wife is, you look like shit. Like you got to go to the hospital and see what's going on. So I do, I check in and they're like, whoa, we get a detox you. Like clearly you're abusing alcohol.

It's very obvious. Your eyes don't look good. I was getting yellow. they were becoming little tinted. So I did rehab. They detoxed me and I stayed there for a good month, two months, something like that. And it worked. I actually left the hospital and everything was good.

I stopped drinking, which is great. But the thing about that is you really got to be intentional about that first time you get sober because if you don't take it seriously, which I did not, you will end up there again. And that's what happened. So I did it. I got sober. I felt better.

I was maintaining my teaching job around Boston. And I was doing good at it. I was okay at it. The first two years were great. I didn't feel secure in my own skin. I still had a lot of issues. I was still, I wasn't drinking,

but I was depressed. Like I lost all my core buddies. So I didn't have that male friendship that I needed. And I'm, I remember I had this silver calculator in my phone and I would just get up and I would just stare at it. And I'd like, okay, 90 days, 100 days, 110 days. And then I got to, I'll never forget it. It was on my phone and said, you have been sober for 125 days.

And I was like, man, I can't believe I did it. I must be cured. And then I remember thinking, oh, I could have a drink now. I clearly can handle alcohol now, right? Look at me. I look at all this time. I just a couple months or whatever, which wasn't very long, honestly. but I felt that long and it felt like I had it under control.

So I remember this was when I'm a big hockey nut and there is this podcast I listened to and this guy, Ryan Whitney, created this vodka called Pink Whitney's. I don't know if you're familiar with it. So I remember looking at the alcohol concentration and it was like 30% or something like not very much. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to try. I just want to see what it's like because, you know, they were talking about it nonstop. And honestly, I'm like, I love Pink Lemonade. That sounds great.

So I remember, I remember that, like, it so, so clearly, I remember going to the store, getting like a fifth or whatever, bringing it home and then putting it in my bag, like near my bed. And I remember just staring at it for a week. And I was like, no, man, you really shouldn't, you really shouldn't. And something set me off. And maybe it was an argument with my wife or something like that. And I'll never forget this moment. I reached down.

I grabbed the bottle. It was cold for some reason. It was still like cold, which was weird for, you know, I was just been sitting there forever. And I remember right when it hit my lips, I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, what did I just do? I am going to regret this. Like, it was all so very clear. It was almost like I could see the future when I did it. Right when it hit my lips, right then I knew this was going to be an issue again.

And sure enough, it was. It was like the easiest transition to go right back into what I was doing before I, that was 125 days sober. So it was very scary, just how easy it was to fall back into it. Yeah. Well, no, and you hear that a lot too. Like we usually just pick up right where we left off and things usually get worse. I'm wondering too back to when you went to the hospital. And that must have been tough for you too, right, to reach out for help. Tough on everyone. Oh, God. Yeah. Well, I didn't really reach up for help. That's the thing. My wife was like, go. You don't look good. And then I stayed. And they sobered me up and I got

detox. And I felt great for those 125 days. But then right when I started again, I didn't take it seriously. And what's crazy, I remember this, the doctor looked at me and he's like, just so you know, the fact that you're here right now is a strong indication that you'll probably be back. So make sure that you realize just how serious this is. And he looked me like dead in the eyes. And I remember just washing right over me going one ear out the other. And I didn't take him serious.

And he looked at me. He gave me the most stern, like, serious look ever. And I did not take him serious. And the consequences because of that were so dire and so strong that I drank myself to death. So I'm married. I'm actually not working now. I'm actually doing Uber. And I just, I couldn't hold on a job now.

So I would, so I had to pay the rent with my wife. I had to bring money to the table. And she knew like what I was going through was difficult. And but she, I think she deep down knew that I was drinking again because I would do things like I would forget conversations very easily. Like she'd like, what are you talking about? We just talked about that the other day. This is what we're doing this weekend, things like that.

And I would totally be like, oh, yeah, I'm sure. Like I would black out with while looking sober. It was the craziest thing. I got it down to like a science where I didn't have to feel feelings. I still felt content because I had my wife. But at the same time, everything was. falling apart around me and my health was severely declining. So we lost our apartment, which was beautiful. We lost it. I had to move back to you with my

folks again. This is at 30 because my wife couldn't handle paying the rent on just for a salary. So you moved back in just for a short time because this is just a minor detour in the path to, you know, the path to, you know, figuring this all out. But then that's when it got out of control. I started drinking vodka. I started hiding it. That's when you really know it's an issue. I would put alcohol of straw vodka, particularly into gatorade bottles and water bottles where it was a big one because it looks like water. And I would get caught drinking too. So like my wife would catch me, have a huge argument, and then I go right back to it. She'd catch me and get a huge argument and go right back into it to the point where I didn't realize what stress I was causing her and putting her in these situations. where she didn't know what to do because she still loved me.

And she knew that was a good person deep down. But I was so addicted to alcohol that I couldn't cope without it. I couldn't do anything without it. I couldn't like, like Sunday morning. She would catch me like drinking in the bathroom like out of a water bottle like by myself. It was that bad. And she kept finding my spots, my hiding spots, which is crazy because in your head. You're like, I can't keep hiding it like this.

And she's clearly going to find it. But I just stopped giving a shit because it just, I had to do it. I was so addicted to it, I could not wake up in the morning without doing it. And those mornings, God, let me tell you, like, I know firsthand how awful it is to be addicted to alcohol in those dry heaves in the morning, in the puking, and then just forcing it down in the shakes. Oh, my God, it was every day I would start. I would crank the shower, so it would be loud enough that my wife wouldn't hear me or

my parents wouldn't hear me, which is crazy. Even though they did, like, after all this went down years. This is years later now. So they're like, we knew what you were doing. Like, we could hear you like dry heating in the bathroom every morning. And I would just sit there and contemplate my existence. Every day I would let the water just hit me. And I would just be this numb, dead person inside and just so lost and so depressed.

And I didn't, and I just couldn't break from that cycle. I just could not get myself out of this dark hole that I was in. And then that's when the liver started taking a hit. And I noticed my skin was getting. yellower and I actually picked up another job teaching at the time. And it was embarrassing as hell because I would go to work and I knew I looked like shit. I was gaining weight. I was like 240 pounds. I'm only five, five, 10, 5.11. So it was like, it was very obvious. I was all swollen. I was like putting on weight like crazy. I wasn't doing a good job at work. Like I was, I wasn't getting paid much for

the school I was working at. So I was like super frustrated financially, super frustrated because I was addicted to alcohol, super frustrated that my wife and I were just fighting nonstop because of my drinking. It was just an awful situation. And then my liver just shut down. And my wife was like, you have to go to the hospital. And I did. I reluctantly went, check myself in. And I didn't leave. I didn't leave until I figured this out. So they put me in. They hooked me up to all the machines. My liver was gone. They were like, this is it. So I was. I was at one hospital where I lived and they have that rule so you can't get a transplant. If your liver is gone, you still can't get a transplant unless you're six months over.

I was not. I was about, I don't know, because I was at the hospital for those for three months. So I wasn't cleared to get a transplant. So I started, we started calling all hospitals around the country trying to find one. And I finally did. You finally got one out here in Western Mass. And they took me in. They were super gracious.

They realized that six-month rule is kind of bullshit. There's no direct correlation between people who have the six months and people who don't getting sober and being successful on the other end of it once you do get the transplant and everything like that. So they took me in. I was sick as a dog. They said I had about three to four weeks left of life. If I did not get transplanted immediately, that's it.

You're gone. So that's where I was. And it was really scary. It was the scariest moment of my life to face death straight in the eye and be like, you, this was self-inflicted, man. Like, you did this to yourself. And I couldn't believe that I had this great childhood, great parents. My dad was a big drinker, but, you know, I couldn't believe that, like, I did this to myself.

I couldn't, I just didn't want to believe it. I thought I was this good person in deep down. And I couldn't believe I fell victim to it. So many people do. And, but it was just the end of the road. So to make a long story short, I don't know if it's. really short, but it's, I got the transplant. I come out of it. I look like shit. They suck me dry. Like I was so swollen that I, I looked like a different human when I came out of the

transplant. It was a very long. It was like nine hours of just straight surgery to get it fixed because there's so many issues and so many complications. And then I come out of the transplant. I have a new liver and then more complications. I got bioduck issues. My kidneys weren't waking up, which is like a pretty common thing after a liver transplant. So next thing I know I'm on dialysis. So even when I got healthy after the liver transplant and I was getting healthier, my kidneys got shot. So I had to go do dialysis three times a week.

So I wasn't able to work. So I didn't even go into work or anything like that. So it was just a nightmare having to go through all that, honestly. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's a lot, man. I'm just thinking there too when the, I'm guessing it's a doctor comes in and tells you like that time frame, three to four weeks. What goes through your mind?

unless you've done it, there's very little, I can say about the feeling. It's almost like you're looking at death straight in the face and it's like, all right, come on. Like you did this and now you got to pay the consequences. So I grew up somewhat religious, but oh my God, all of those nights, I was in the hospital for months and months before the transplant and then a whole year afterwards almost. So because I had all the complications I had, I had like my, my bowel was obstructed. So it blew up because they gave you pain meds and then the pain meds stop you from going to

bathroom and then all of a sudden you're my colon burst. So I lost my gallbladder and half my colon. I had to put an elyostomy bag, which is, you know, very disgusting and very uncomfortable and it was awful. So I had to have that for six months. Then they have to reverse the elyostomy. So they have to switch that. So they put my colon back into my stomach is.

And then like that's a huge major operation right there. So it was just operation, surgery, operation, procedure, surgery. It was just like nonstop for the past two, two, three years of my life now. But here I am today, this completely different person. I go well, I wake up every morning, I get sunshine right away. I'm so grateful to be here. I can't believe how precious life is and how much I took it for granted. It was a very long learning process.

And it's still not over. this, if you can believe it, there's still those cravings that pop up every now and then. It's just because of therapy and because of groups like yours in watching YouTube videos and staying active in the community and doing everything I can to stay focused and driven. It's a major thing that if you don't keep up with your sobriety daily, you don't check in with yourself and hold yourself accountable. It's super easy to fall back into things. So every day I get up, I write down what's my intention of the day, what are my goals,

what are some things I want to accomplish. And I make them minor, I make them small. But I have a list that I'm grateful for that morning. I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful to be sober. I'm grateful that I have my wife. I'm grateful that I live in this beautiful place that we just moved to.

I'm grateful for just these everyday things we're not mindful of. And I write down that list every morning. And then I think about it. And then I have my intentions and I put forth those intentions, those healthy intentions throughout the day. I get things done. And at the end of the day, I kind of recap my day and I kind of go over my list and they kind of go over the things I'm grateful for.

And then again, I notice at night I'm even more grateful of the things that I have now in my life now. So it's keeping tabs on yourself and keeping holding yourself accountable each day is what keeps me going. And my relationships with my family have never been better. Relationship with my wife has never been better. She looks at those years when I was drinking to this past a year and a half now that I have been sober. I'm a completely different person. I'm like happy now. I smile all the time. I go out. Like we all that we go out. She's the best because she went sober with me, which is like just incredible. She never had a problem at all. She didn't want to do this and she didn't sign up for

this or anything. But she went through it with me. She was my partner. So it's just incredible to look back at how my life was then to where I am today and how much I had to go through to finally for it to click and be like, no, you have an issue, Will, you need to address this, and you need to ask for help. And my dad was the person I came out to as far as that final day before, it was like a couple months before I had to get the transplant, but I asked him, I'm like, dad, I cried, I go, dad, because I knew he had a problem drinking. He was a very heavy drinker. So I remember crying, breaking down and being like, dad, I need, I need help. I need help. And that was the first time I ever did that. It was a huge moment my life. Like, one of the most important

moments of my life was the day I broke down to my father, he was a big drinker and looked him in the eye. I was like, Dad, like, I need help. And he's, I know, well, it's a, he's like, this is one of those things where, you know, this is a very, it's a huge milestone in your life that you're realizing you need help and you need to address it. And he was there for me throughout this entire process. He just passed away. So it was almost like he hung around long enough just to get me through it and to see that I was healthy enough. And I was, like, Bremeny died. I was, like, just at the peak of where I am now.

And it was almost like he hung on, long enough just to see me kind of get through it, which was amazing. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mention this. Because of the Tachrolamus that they put you on the immunosuppressant drugs for the liver transplant, my kidneys, this is before that too, but my kidneys got shot and then they shut down. So I had to get a kidney transplant, too. and I just had that done about three months ago.

I'm healing great. That was so much easier than the liver. It's not easy by any means to get a kidney transplant. And there's a long wait list, but because you're in that one year, they call the safety net. You get priority because your kidneys were in direct relation to the liver failure. So it was all related.

But I got that. And here I am on this beautiful sunny day. Boston Celtics just won the other night. This is great. It's great. Life is good, man. I didn't realize how good it is until you have to go through hell to get on the other side. And here I am on the other side with a smile on my face. And I can't believe how grateful and blessed I am to be here. It's just incredible. It's just a crazy story. And honestly, it's like shifting my perspective and how I get up every morning. How do I look at life? It's so precious how good life is. I can't believe that I didn't, I couldn't see it because you can't see it in an act of addiction. You just can't see it. any way out of it. You can't see that things will get better, but they will get better. Just cut the booze. Get it out of you or whatever you're on any drug. Get it out of your system. Just try your hardest to just not do it. If you can just not do it today, that's the thing like people like the

count that the days, that's great. Then you get addicted to the counting the days. So if I can just not drink today, that's enough. If I can just drop my drink today, that's enough. And then you start realizing every day, I'm not drinking today. And then you put that in 10. And then you put that in attention out and you just don't drink. And then all of a sudden, like, you're out at a ballgame or whatever and everyone was drinking around you and you're like, I don't have that urge anymore. It's gone. It's, it's, I, you just think about the hell you went through and how awful it made every aspect of your life and how you couldn't do anything because of it. And then you just think, oh my God, I don't have that craving anymore because it was so bad when I was in active addiction that I

couldn't see the other side of it. I could not see that my life to be. I could not see that my life to be how it is now. And like now I got my license. I passed the test. I could not pass the 10 years or whatever. I'm actively getting job offers. It's like my life is completely done like a, you know, 180 and it's so good. It's so good. Oh man. I can hear the excitement in your voice. Yeah. It's like contagious. And you get around people who were done it. And then they can see in your face like just how incredible it is to be alive and how precious it is and how just you don't need alcohol to feel all these things that you think it's an enhancing drug, but it's not. It actually de-hink. It does everything that you think it's going to do in a good way, but it doesn't. It just ruins everything. It ruins

jobs, friendships, relationships, marriages. Your family relationships, it does everything that you don't want. It does. And to get out of it is super hard. It's not easy, but it's so worth it on the other end because it's just a better way to live to be clear-headed. And sober, it's just, it's better. And I thought I wouldn't enjoy things. That was a big part of my God, I don't want to get sober because I won't enjoy, like, movies. I won't enjoy those, those funny conversations and those crazy things that happen when you're with your buddies and you're bombed and like all those funny, like, silly stories and like going

out golfing. Like, I couldn't imagine not having beers when on golf. And it's easy. I've done it. Like, I've been doing it the past year and a half now. So it's, it just gets easier and easier. But you still have to show up for yourself every day. You really do it.

You can't just let it be. You have to be intentional with what I want to do that day and how I'm going to approach it. And if there are things that come up, make sure that you have some kind of community like this to jump back into and watch videos like this and be a part of it and contribute, not just watch, but also actively engage yourself with like-minded people who have been through very similar situations because it keeps you, hold you accountable. And being accountable for your actions and your emotions and your feelings and being mindful in prison is the most important aspect of suburb.

variety. It really is just being all those things help and make you a good person that you want to be. And it's just, you know, I'm not going through it now. Yeah, man. And even hearing your story, too, as you talk about that stuff there, and you talk about that other point where the isolation took over. And we often hear that connection is the opposite of addiction. And I think there's a lot of truth to that, being connected with other people, whether on the journey, whether positive influences or mentors in our lives, make all the difference because the addiction, to isolate a lot of us towards the end. A lot of people share the story of hanging out, parties and all that stuff. And then there becomes that switch of isolation. And that's when we

really seem to have a downfall. One thing that stood out to me earlier, Will, that you shared before we wrap up here is that you listed off all the things in your life that have improved, right? Relationship with others, your career and everything. I'm wondering where you're at with yourself, because throughout your story, you've struggled with a variety of different things. How are you feeling internally about where you're at in yourself these days? Yeah, that's a great question. So it's interesting. So you'll hear this a lot of transplant patients. There's like this survivor's guilt that happens where you're so happy to be alive. But on the same token, you're also very sad and remorseful of the person who had to die so you could live longer. So you feel like you're

on borrowed time already. And then on top of that, you have this feeling. of dread and grief and I can't believe that someone had to die for me to continue living. And you feel really guilty about it and it's really common. But you have to approach it in a healthy way, which is just be appreciative of it. Be appreciative of where you were and where you are now. And use that organ that someone had to die to give you. Use it mindfully. Use it respectfully.

Honestly, that's probably the most important. Be respectful of it. of someone's life had to, you know, to go for you to continue on. So you have to be grateful for that and mindful of it because those are the only things that are going to keep you going. And I would say there are tough days still. Of course, there's always going to be tough days no matter what, if you're sober or not. So there's going to be tough days.

And there are days I feel not great because I feel guilty and stuff like that. And I can't believe I put so many people that I love in these situations that were just unforgivable. And honestly, you know, downright wrong. And I wake up now very different. And I wake up very, just very coherent of my surroundings. I'm clear-headed now. I can articulate sentences better.

I can show up for work. I can do all the things that we take for granted. And I can do them in a healthy and honest way now. I'm just honest. And it took a very long time. It took 37 years of life to realize, here I am. This is life. And this is what I need to show up for myself.

I need to be respectful of all the things that I've learned in the process and just be honest with myself and the people around me. And that's why I'm doing this right now is because I know that this would help me stay the course and hopefully help someone else who was in my situation at one time or in my situation at the moment. And you can see this and really learn from my experience and hopefully change their behaviors in their everyday habits and routines. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. I think a lot of the time when it comes to this, because I had another person on the podcast a while back that had a transplant, and the comments get lit up with, how much were you drinking? What were you drinking? And I think the reason that is, I'm only guessing here, but I think the reason that is is because people are wondering if they're headed on this path or they're, you know, aimed at this possibly happening to them. When you were going through all of this, is this maybe more common than we realize? like people in hospitals struggling with. Oh my God.

Yeah. It's crazy. So once COVID hit, this is what all the doctors and the people that I met in the hospitals and people who were in my situation at the hospital too. They're showing studies now of it used to be like if you were to get a liver transplant, you were in your 50s, 60s. Like that's because you were hitting it hard your whole life. What they're seeing now is because I don't know if it's like the millennial attitude or just,

you know, just how our lives were growing up in. And just drinking was so common. And binge drinking, especially, was so common that they're seeing a lot, a heart enough people in their 30s having to go in for liver transplant because it's that common. It's like one of the fastest growing things that they're noticing in hospitals, in clinics and things like that throughout the country is like just how many people who are, you know, in their 30s or even 20s. I saw there was a girl next to me in my, when I was in the hospital, she was 26. She was getting a liver transplant. She was 10 years longer than me. And everyone's different.

Everyone metabolizes alcohol in a different way in their body that does different things. Everyone's different. So this girl, she was doing similar things. It's like an epidemic right now in our culture is self-medicating and using it as coping strategy. But it's the worst one you can do. And then when it becomes habitual and you're using it every day, then it gets really scary. Yeah, so true. Before we sign off here, one more question for you. If somebody's listened to this episode, they could relate with your story in one way or another. And they're kind of in that spot, maybe that back and forth spot or maybe just trying to get things moving forward for their sober journey. What would you say to them? I would say don't give up hope. Don't lose the faith. Honestly, if there's any kind of silver lining to all this that I've gone through is that I never gave up. I never once was like,

I can't beat this. I just, there was always as naive and as crazy as it all is, there was always like a shimmering sign of hope in my brain, in my personality and in my drive of to beat this addiction because there were so many long nights. When you go through a transplant or any kind of, when you're in active addiction,

there's so many lonely nights of just complete loss of who you are as a person, your identity is gone. So it's like, don't lose hope. It gets better if you put the work in, but you have to put the work in. There's no other way to do it. No one's going to come rescue you out of this hole that you're in. You have to do it yourself.

No one can get sober. No one can tell everyone can scream at in your face as many times as you want. But it inevitably comes down to your decision. It has to be you. It has to be driven. It has to be come from your soul. It really does. Cornier as that sounds.

to come from then it has to come from you because no one else is going to do it for you. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. Anything else you want to mention before we sign off? No, I'm just super grateful to be on this platform to tell my story in hoax that someone resonates with someone because I know how truly terrible addiction is and it's one of those things that is often overlooked and it's embarrassing to admit and me putting myself out here like I am. And a lot of people are going to be like, oh, my God, I can't believe he did that. But it's the truth. It feels good to speak my truth and to be in a healthy place now and mindful.

Wow, I can't believe I went through that. And I hope that someone watching this can realize that and just how special life is and how precious it is and how much we should never take it for granted. Because it is truly an amazing place. And I'm so happy to be here. So thank you for giving this opportunity. I really appreciate it. Yeah, man. Thank you so much.

Well, there it is. Another incredible episode here on the podcast. Huge shout out to Will. I'll drop his Instagram information down on the show notes if you want to reach out to him. Just to say a few kind words or just say, thanks for sharing your story on a Suburmotivation podcast. I know that guests love to hear from everybody in it. Shows them that we appreciate them, really putting it all out there on the line like Will just did in this episode.

I also want to mention, too, if you're enjoying the show, it would mean a lot to have your support with some donations in a sense. You can head over to buy me a coffee.com slash sober motivation and contribute there. Helps me keep the show going. Helps me pay for all these different software, editing and countless hours on this stuff. And I really enjoy it. Anything would help. I'll drop that as well down in the show notes below.

If you're looking for a supportive community, be sure to come over and check us out on Sober Buddy. I'll drop the link for a 30-day free try. You can plug into our sober superstar course. One of our hosts, Paul as well, just dropped an early recovery skills course to really take you through. I think it's about 10 of the foundational things that you need on this journey.

It's a great place to start. You can plug into about 50 meetings a month, which is incredible. I mean, tons of stuff. It just blows my mind how we've put all this stuff together. And you get 30 days free. And then after that, it's only 20 bucks a month, which blows me away as well for $20 a month,

all of that stuff and a supportive community and some of the greatest people and coolest people on the internet from all over the world. We get to connect with, and it inspires me up. I host meetings Monday morning, Wednesday evening, and Friday morning, and let me tell you, it's a ton of fun. To watch people change their lives is incredibly rewarding.

And to be a part of that is incredibly rewarding. So come and hang out of it. out with us and that's it for today. I hope you guys enjoyed Will's story as much as I did and I'll see you on the next one.