SoccerWise - Ben Pirmann + Mailbag Edition

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

David sit downs with Charleston Battery Head Coach & Technical Director Ben Pirmann to discuss building a club identity, being a competitive club while selling players, the future of USL, and much more. Then David digs into the mailbag carving the all-time Women's Soccer Mount Rushmore, comparing Shield teams from different eras, potential USMNT prospects in MLS & more. 1:30 Charleston's Ben Pirrman 32:15 Women Soccer's All-Time Mount Rushmore 39:13 MVP vs MOP 40:39 2017 TFC vs 2024 Inter Miami 44:24 What Is Going On In Cincinnati 47:27 The Next MLS Players Ready For USMNTSoccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

Hey everybody, welcome back to SoccerWiser Friday edition interview with Ben Kierman, head coach and technical director of Charleston Battery, coming up in just a moment. And then our mailbag on the backside of that for all of you to enjoy. Heading into the weekend and over the course of the weekend, a big weekend of NWSL action that I will have a recap for on Monday. The U.S. men's national team facing off against Panama

on Saturday as well. So that will all come on Monday. On Tuesday, we got a U.S. men's and Canadian men's national team friendly to look forward to, including the U.S. men playing against Mexico. And then we have more NWSL coverage coming for you over the course of the week. one more week on his honeymoon heading into decision day so a lot more interesting people for me to sit down and chat with uh for some of these episodes and then of course all of your coverage as we head into the mls and nwsl playoffs all right time for our interview now i have said it a few times on the show i think the charleston battery one of the most interesting soccer projects in north amer America right now.

Very fortunate to chat with the head coach and technical director, Ben Pierman. Let's go to that right now. All right, everybody. We have a really cool opportunity at SoccerWise here to talk to someone who I think is working on one of the most interesting projects in North American soccer, especially in the United States. We cover the sport, of course, all across from men to women, from upper division, lower division, open cups, everything else. And I think when you have those conversations, the Charleston Battery come up a lot. And Ben Pierman comes up a lot. Head coach for the Charleston Battery, technical director as well. One of the favorites to get mentioned on this show. But now I'm really glad to have the opportunity to talk to you, coach. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So it has been less than two years

that you've been in the job, a championship last year, the team rolling once again, second in the East, heading down towards the end stretch of the season. How do you feel right now with where this group is? And based off what you went through last year how do you assess where it needs to be at this point in the season yeah i mean obviously i think if you look at everything from a 50 000 foot view the the positives are there right we we took over um you know a massive club a huge historic club with some tremendous people running and operating the club in kind of in a rough way. In our first season, we wanted to be competitive. We wanted to fight. You know, I even kind of told everybody, yes, I want to make the playoffs. And that'll be the only time

we mention it. It's about fighting daily and training and fighting every single game. And, you know, we lost a game 7-0 last year, and we went all the way to the championship game and kind of blew it a little bit and lost it in injury time and then in penalties. So, you know, this year, hats off to Louisville. They've obviously been the best team, and I think we're pretty significantly the second best team in, in second division.

So for us to say comfortably, we're, we're the second best team right now in all of USL is, is probably fairly accurate, but you know, so, so that's really positive, but,

but you know, we fell a little bit short of, of winning the player shield. Like I said, fair, fair credit to, to Louisville, but also the ability for

us to integrate players and be able to move players on we had three players transferred to major league soccer last year which is really unheard of for a singular club um you know obviously we have a player who's probably going to win the mvp and move on to europe in the winter transfer window um and then when november 1st 2, 3rd hits and that new page rips, the whole new season starts. It doesn't matter if you're Louisville, Charleston, or the number eight seed, all 16 teams that make the playoffs are fighting for really the big prize. So that'll be the interesting part. It's going to be full go. I'm excited, but we got three games left in the regular season to keep pushing and get as good as we can and then, you know, push on for the playoff season.

We're going to talk about this season and what's coming. And obviously, fall comes. College soccer has started for all of us in the soccer world. Like, this is a beautiful time of year. Although I just moved to Miami, so I don't smell the leaves anymore, which I'm a little bit sad about. But having covered USL for years, like, this the great time of year and this is really exciting. But I want to go back and start about, talk about the beginning of this process first and the bigger picture with this club.

When you do come in as someone in a role like yours who had been in the USL before, had been in NPSL as well, talk to me about how you assess a club from the outside. And then what's the checklist of what do I need to accomplish first and how long is the plan of when do you reach the end? Like, is it a five year plan? Is it a one year plan? What does it look like as you walk through those doors? I mean, look, I think there's the first thing, like you said, there has to be an assessment of where things at, whether that's from a roster, a staff standpoint, and then and then making sure you have a good fit and alignment with with everybody at the club. Right. So we have a chairman who's tremendous, who pours his heart into this club and his money and his time. We have what I would consider is one of the best executives in North American sports period but definitely in all of USL and soccer in this country Lee Cohen and we all sat together and we said here's what we want to do here's Ben Pierman's process of how I want to do it does

this fit with what you guys want you know there's going to be barriers in the way there's going to be bumps and hurdles you know how do we those, those bumps and how do we remove barriers of ultimately just making this team and this club and this community the best as possible. So specifically for us, like I mentioned you know, everything was about controlling what we can influence. I talk about two things all the time, our attitude and our effort. That's, that's what you can control. You can't control. If a recruit wants to sign with you, you can't control what the referee does. You can't control if the ball hits the post or goes in or the guy misses the cross or whatever. So we focus on that, that energy and that character piece. And we put that into everything. You know, I, I, I even every interview I did when I first took the job, I, I pushed the media. I pushed our front office.

I pushed the kit man. I pushed the ticket salespeople. I just said, we want to be the best we possibly can. You know, we are what we are. We're a smaller market, but we're a historic club. But it's all about the people that are around you. And it's, it is football and it is a business, but ultimately it's a people business as well. you know we we try to make those expectations clear um we we address the expectations with players and staff and then it's about being animals and going after it and then ultimately i think if you do that uh you get to enjoy what you get to do like you you know there's a lot of things that go on in this world that aren't enjoyable we get to do something that is truly special and, and exciting and fun, um, that we don't want it to feel like work going every day, even though it really is,

it's a long 10 months and it's tough. Um, but you want to surround yourself with people that are going to grind with you that when the bads happen, you know, you don't get too low. And when the highs happen, you just keep ticking on to keep improving. So it's about that mindset of having a growth mindset, constantly improving and working your tail off one of the things for your club now where you stand is this player recruitment because of the success you've had you mentioned the three players moved on to major league soccer you've already had a player sold to europe that's going to be coming up this year and you look at this roster specifically and it's the spine from last year that had to be flipped this year right Trey Muse in goal a big name started 13 times in major league

soccer this year Derek Dodson a piece of this group as well you move Doggy Williams on and MD Myers comes in who won the golden boot at NYCFC2 last year. When you stepped out from that last season, you start again. How do you go about rebuilding the roster or assessing where to add? And what is the process as a head coach slash technical director of when you're wearing the two hats and how it works? Yeah, it's a really interesting concept because, you know, when I took the job last November of 2022 going into the 23 season, we said we want to. Yeah, we want to be a playoff team, get ourselves back to that standpoint. But we want to fight. We want to be competitive. We want to put solid people around. And then obviously we get third in the division.

We make the run all the way to the championship game, hosted four playoff games, including the two finals. And then you go and you mention five players and Fidel Barajas and Dotson and Trey Muse go to MLS and selling other players from a business side, doing some good business for the club. It felt like a little bit more of a rebuild than we wanted to after year one. But like I said said you want to control things you can influence turn it into a positive right you know md myers comes in to to be a striker we signed jackson conway to be a striker who's been even though he's 22 years old a six

year pro um you know the opportunity to bring some more players in whether that's a juan davi torres who's a trialist in in training on our turf baseball field in preseason in a storm, and now getting 13, 14 goal involvements, and he's attracting interest from other clubs. So, you know, it also gives the opportunity that the players that we had signed the year before that were on the team, like Leland Archer and some of our our more veteran players to really step up you know Nick Markanick's probably going to be the the most outstanding player whatever the award is he's obviously set some records we've got players that'll win some all league and in yearly awards this year and and that's what it is it's about those guys being ready to go um fight and do whatever we can for

this club and each other and then if they get opportunities to move on, you know, even similarly, like one of my assistant coaches left to be a league one head coach. It was tough and he's a great person and a great coach, but we brought in somebody else who's done a tremendous job and help us move forward. And that's what it is about people. If you find the right ones and communicate well, I think that the sky's the limit. We're still kind of all figuring out the ecosystem of where does MLS exist in the world? Where does USL exist in the world? Where do all these clubs exist inside of it? Is there a mandate inside the team to say, we need to move on X players every year to make X money to bring back in? Or is it a philosophy? No, there's not a mandate um and that was a specific question that i had during the interview process like hey is there a set style play is there a set

uh you know signing young players old players last year we were the second youngest team in all of usl and i i actually didn't like it at all um i wanted to get a little bit more veteran a little bit more mature um you know this year i feel like to get a little bit more veteran, a little bit more mature. You know, this year, I feel like we're a little bit too old. Maybe I'm just getting too old. But you know, for me, it's, it's, I'm all about processes. I'm about doing things the right way. So you train Monday through Friday, and then whatever happens on Saturdays are usually from what you did the week before or the months and weeks leading up to it. It's the same thing with, with players having opportunities in different,

like you said, ecosystems, whether that's major league soccer, whether that's Europe, whether that's South America, we've had clubs interested in our players from that continent. So I think if players work hard, they're selfless,

they play with courage and bravery to, to go be themselves and be the best versions and of themselves, that they're going to perform well. If you look at the teams, this is my fourth year as head coach in USL. We've always had a record-breaking attacker and players that are all leagues and award winners from players that have been discarded by other clubs. So, you know, they tend to have a little bit of a chip on their shoulder, play for the team and do it right. And then ultimately just like winning a game on a Saturday night, it's about what you do leading up to that process.

So, you know, Nick Markanik, Fidel Baraja, some of these, quote, bigger sales have really taken the limelight. But there's a lot of players that are going to have this opportunity, whether it's a big transfer or something that helps them, something in Europe, something in South America, or even within USL. We had a player last year that got engaged and needed to be on the West Coast closer to his family, and that was a great opportunity for him where he had helped us reach all the way to the final and started there. So we don't like losing good players and good people. But but it's also one of those things where if you're doing it the right way, and it's something exciting for them and a great opportunity, no matter where it

is, you know, you can hang your hat on it and realize you've kind of left the place better than when it started. We we have seen, you know, a number of players you talked about sort of discarded, not given the opportunities, couldn't find the spot, then finally find a place to play and grow. The Fidel Barajas story is a little bit different. At the age it happens, we now have seen Diego Luna as well come into USL out of an MLS academy and then come back into Major League Soccer with success. But where did you find Barajas? And now we see it with Vigo Ortiz as well what's the recruitment process and thought process as you as a club saying this young player

can come in can they be a difference maker do they have to be a difference maker day-to-day for the first team or is it a future thing like how does that how do those signings now come about and was this something you thought would always be something coming for usl um you know i first of all i think every every player in every situation is different right you can be 27 28 29 years old and hit your prime and do amazing things and make a big move you can be 15 16 and tear it up straight away and then you, you know, a lot of pressure on you. Um, you know, specifically to Fidel Barajas, he was actually on the team when I took over, he had played four or five matches for a couple of hundred minutes. Um, but I'd never met him, saw him play until about

five, six days left in preseason. Um, because he was with the world cup qualifying. We had some injuries. We had some players that we were moving around in position. And he basically went into the starting lineup, and I got out of his way. So to be fair to Fidel, he is a generational talent and ability. I hadn't coached a player like that. His aggression, his maturity for a 16- and turning 17 year old was tremendous. And it was obviously very natural for him to move to Salt Lake and then less than six months in move to, to achieve us in, in Liga MX.

So in regard to USL, I think there's this concept that there's only, I think 29 major league soccer teams and they can only sign and play so many players. And there are so many good players in this country that kids want to play. Kids want to play first-team football, and I think USL has said, hey, look, sure, we want to compete. We want to be the best that there possibly is,

but Fidel Barajas is a perfect example. He was in San Jose Earthquakes. They deemed that it wasn't the right time or right fit. Charleston Battery gave him an opportunity, and he flourished. That doesn't mean Battery are right and San Jose is wrong. It just means for that player, that was the journey. You know, you mentioned Vigo Ortiz. We signed Zeke Soto out of Houston.

Dynamo, who was with the U-17 and U-18 national teams. You know, those both players have bright futures. You know, they're just integrating themselves in now um you know so we'll see over the next year two years how they can continue to mature but i've watched zeke soto in the last four weeks go from being a good solid training player to like holy cow this kid can impact us and he's pushing um 22 year olds he's pushing 25 year olds he's pushing 30 year olds and then. He's pushing 25-year-olds. He's pushing 30-year-olds. And then they're pushing him right back. So ultimately for me as technical director and head coach

and specifically preparing the team each week to win a match, I want to put Zeke and Vigo and the other – we have a small roster, I think only 16 other field players. We want to put those players in positions to succeed, and we want things to be clear for them. And we want them to work hard. And then the harder they work and the better the understanding is of what they need to accomplish, they're just going to keep getting better and better. And like I mentioned, the sky really is the limit for these players. They can do so much.

They're way better than I could ever be be here imagine so they just push themselves and keep getting better and then you're doing it with 23 other usl teams who are who are in their own way doing a lot of the same things whether that's um you know louisville city tampa bay rowdies orange county it doesn't matter there's a lot of really good coaches and a lot of really good players and the age doesn't matter so if they're're ready to play, they'll get pushed out there. You know, and for us, we want to win as many games as possible. We don't care who's helping us do it. Is the club out sort of recruiting and looking and saying

who are the players that could be the next in a situation like this? Or do you feel like the club now is a bit of a beacon after the moves that have happened for young players or agents or families around the country to say, well, if this is the path we think this player can take, we want to try and direct ourselves to Charleston? Yeah, a little bit of both. Right. I mean, I think both are very natural. I mentioned USL championships specifically is a, is a, is a proving grounds. It's proven to show that, that players will get opportunities and can flourish.

So in general, our league has that. So we'd be silly not to entertain that, to not put some, some resources in our time, mainly into making sure we, that, you know,

we build relationships with national team players and agents and and you know use our networks to make sure we have eyes on the right players we bring a lot of players in for looks and trials and some have been good fits some haven't some have decided they want something else which is which is great some have really been desperate to come here which is great and obviously I think what um you know fidel barajas and moving three players to major league soccer last season and in a big announcement for nick markanik this year i think that the charleston battery is clearly destination um and i think what it goes to show is is that it doesn't have to be a 15 or 16 or 17 year old uh mexican or canadian or

u.s national team player um it can be a 24 year old who wasn't the right fit at an MLS club. It can be a 24 year old who came in on trial and, you know, makes not enough money and wants to push on. It could be it could be any of those situation, you know, but but for us, I think it's a scenario where we really provide these players opportunities to thrive. When the team then has a player like this and makes a sale and it's sort of at those big numbers, how does that then affect the club? Does it go into purely into players or is there a way to build out the club in a different way? Look, I think I think from that perspective, it's yes and no, right? There's bottom lines.

USL Championship isn't getting a huge Apple TV deal. We don't have 20,000 fans at our games. So in second division soccer and lower division soccer, every dollar really counts. You know, we're a solid club. We have good investments. We have really good investments from people and into human beings um so so it kind of covers everything yes for me the way i view it is if a player departs you have to replace him um you know it's not like oh fidel rip

you know leaves and we make X amount of dollars. We have to spend that money on his replacement. Maybe part of that goes into a coach that can help scout. Maybe that goes into a resource. Maybe that goes into three younger players. I, you know, for us, it's, it's, it's about kind of sticking to our philosophy doing what we think is best for the Charleston battery, because there's 23 USL teams and 29 to 30 MLS

teams and League One teams and teams from the UK that do it completely differently. But for us, we kind of put it into making sure that we're always striving to improve, whether that's on the field, off the field, business, football, you name it. In your role, how do you think about an academy for your club and how you can sort of maybe take the step from finding these players around the region to having them be local prospects? Yeah, I mean, look, I think ultimately in a perfect situation, you've got a first team, you've got a secondary team where players can take risks and fail in in but still feel the support um and that's connected to younger players coming up through through your own system

um that's an ideal world um you know brentford in in the premier league is is one of the better clubs in the entire world and clearly one of the best with with data in in developing those uh cast off players they don't have an academy they do something a little bit different so you know we're in a situation where we're out we're looking at young players we're bringing them into our environment we also want to be very respectful of the clubs in our area in the human beings that have put a lot of time and energy into into developing their own brand um i view it that football is in this world is one of those things that everybody can bond around you know so if our community is around it

which they are we've been around for for over 30 years uh you know that that our club our community wants our club to succeed we want our community to succeed so if we can help out younger players uh we have training players that are under academy contracts that are with us every day that they give back to this club. And I think it helps them, whether they're training and going to their clubs or going off to college. We have players that we signed to academy contracts that have featured in games this year. We've signed young players to pro deals. So, you know, it kind of hits the whole gamut, but yes, if you were to look at it, um, from a long-term strategic, um, best way to get it going and resources and money is, is, is no object

that, yeah, that would be great. Um, and you can really build it. And you've seen clubs that have done that, um, within the USL ecosystem, whether that's league one, whether that's championship, and you've seen players come through and make sales all the way over to Europe and are thriving at big clubs there. When you look around, not just development for players, but for coaches, I know you are a legacy coach, right? Your dad was a soccer coach. You steeped through the college soccer system in Detroit City.

When you think about development for coaches, what do you think is sort of the next steps? Or what are the things that either get you excited or worry you about the future of coaches? Yeah, it's an interesting question. Because obviously, when you're a footballer, a coach, or you work at Coca Cola and corporate America, you always want to push and get better. Right. You know, yes, we're, we're a second division league and I'm extremely happy and excited to be around the people I'm at and compete and try to push to win titles. You know, and, but, but yeah, we would all love to be head coaches in major league soccer. I'd love to be the coach of the national

team. I'd love to coach main United. I'd love to coach, you know, in Singapore, you know, it's, um, but I also understand, like I mentioned, there's, there's a process to everything. I'm, I'm focused on what we do. If you do things the right way, um, you know, potential opportunities may or may not come. And, you know, I, like I said, my wife and I love living in the Charleston community. We love not only this club and our jobs, but we love living here. We love the life we have. You know, the people that we get to surround ourselves, whether it's with the battery or in our own social lives, you know, it's tremendous. lot of i don't know if a lot is the right term but you've seen you've seen quite a few um usl championship head coaches and a couple assistants move to go be mls assistant coaches yes you've had steve turundalo from from um vegas slash lafc2 yes you had paulo nagamura go from sporting kansas city to to houston a couple things there and there, but majority of the time it's the assistant coaches, right? You've had Juan Guerra, Brendan Burke, Nate Miller, Ant Pulis,

you know, you've had Blair Gavin go to New England. Every situation's different, right? I bet that if I left my job, you know, for whatever reason, I could go be a manager at Buc-ee's and somebody, I bet there's 50 MLS assistant coaches that would, that would die for this job. It is, it is an amazing, amazing job, you know? So yes, there is, you know, the desire to be, um, a head coach in, in MLS, you know, those opportunities are always coming. Hopefully that door opens up, you know, I think people like Danny Cruz and Mark Briggs and some others out there really, really are such tremendous coaches. But it's tough.

It's tough. You know, and there's so many good candidates within the MLS system. I mean, when I look at Robin Frazier and Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley and, you know, obviously they announced Greg Berhalter, the names of these coaches that are available. I'm like, man, those are some high profile, incredible coaches that would be borderline heroes of mine. So, you know, it's you got to take it all with a grain of salt. Yes, I really do hope that pathway continues to emerge. Maybe that's for some coaches as an assistant coach.

Maybe that's some coaches going abroad. Maybe some coaches that just continuing to do the best they can in their current jobs but for me and in my situation I love the Charleston battery you know I want to win trophies like I'm kind of disgusted at myself that we can't win the player shield this year and like I said full credit to to Louisville and I mentioned Danny he's a tremendous coach I hope hey I hope he's not coaching in USL next year, you know? So, um, but you know, in all fairness, like I, I really do hope coaches get the chances that they want and deserve. Cause I think there's so many good coaches and players in our league. Louisville and you, of course, fighting for that, for that

record for the, the, the top point spot this year. And Louisville's of course been sort of at the top for years now and in different ways and and you push things at Memphis as well Louisville has been one of those clubs that has pushed things sort of it feels like into the future of USL every few years what do you see as the future of the league just in general when you are talking to people around the soccer space when you're talking to people around USL of like what's the two years? What are the next 10 years look like from a competitive point of view or from an off field point of view in USL? Yeah, that's a that's an interesting question. And it's it's probably, you know, a little bit difficult to answer just because I don't know. I mean, I think the USL I came in in 2019 as an assistant. So this is my sixth

season in six, less than six years. This, this league has grown tremendously. Um, the amount of money owners are spending to win and develop players. You mentioned academies, you've mentioned player sales. I'm looking at stadiums that are beautiful, that are packed and, you know, beers and sandwiches flying around and the supporters groups. What what the USL championship in general has become in my six years in this league is tremendous. So hopefully there's nothing but continued growth, continued development, whether that's from the technical side with the players and coaches, whether that's from the resource side like stadium stadiums and the corporate relationships and the TV deals this year, right? Being on CBS and TUDN and so many games on national television. I watched Louisville play Indy on CBS and primetime television. This stuff's crazy.

Six years ago, you were watching it on YouTube, seeing if it would buffer. All right. You know, so it's been, it's been tremendous. They've done an incredible job. I think you've got people like Paul McDonough and Jeremy Allenball at the top of the league who understand football in this country and understand football economics in the, in the infrastructure and they push others and we just got to keep pushing each other whether that's um coaches refereeing the infrastructure the tv deals the balls we use you name it just keep getting better keep getting better and i do think that uh you know the sky's the limit you know i would love someday like hopefully this doesn't get anybody

into trouble like i would love someday that there's a situation where, you know, a team like Louisville city and Charleston are playing to get promoted. You know, I don't know if that'll ever happen. And if it doesn't, that's okay. But I think that's great for football. I think that's great for supporter interest. You've seen the sport grow, you know, in about 18 months or less than two years. Now we're going to have the biggest event on the planet in our own, all of our backyards. Like we just want to keep building on this like i said football is a community sport i think if we could just keep helping everybody from the football and the economic side um the sky's the limit and i think usl has been such a tremendous uh you know you know major major

benefit to that you said you were sick you're not going to win the regular season championship but the playoffs that's what we're all here for. The Eastern Conference loaded. Louisville, yourself, Detroit. We talked about Tampa's struggles on the field at times, but we all know how good that team can be. What is it going to take to get over the line this year? Sort of what's the conversation inside the group as we head towards playoffs? Yeah, you know, I was asked that question a lot as we started the playoffs last year. And I, I say this in jest, but I mean this seriously. You know, one of my favorite coaches in general of all time is Tom Izzo, the Michigan state basketball team coach. And he would always

say to, he's been to a million final fours in order to get to the final four and cut the nets down in March and April, you have to have luck. Right. And I don't mean that we have to be lucky to win. Um, but we hosted as a three seed, every single game in the USL championship, you know, all the, the other three top seeds lost first round last year. You know, maybe, you know, we were fortunate where a player got a red card. We didn't have to play against top player. That's all part of football right we also dominated the the final and should have been up two or three nothing and unluckily concede the the goal at the end of the game so you need a little bit of that um but really for me in terms of focusing on the

things that we can control is in in order to make our own luck um is that we need to really make sure when that page is turned in every all the 16 teams that are left standing um is that we need to really make sure when that page is turned and all the 16 teams that are left standing is that everybody is all in on every little fine little detail. You know, that the positivity is there, the communication is at a high level, the willingness to be courageous like we've been for eight and a half months, the willingness to do whatever it takes, everybody understanding their role from the front office to the coaches, to the players, to the starters, to the subs,

every moment of every game. Because if you outwork your opponent, then you will create your own luck and hopefully play a really good brand of football and play the best we possibly can. I think we're all in for a treat. Strength on strength right now with the way some of the teams are trending. We are all looking forward to the playoffs. I know you are. And then hopefully we turn the page once again and we do it all again and we'll have you back on the show to talk about it as things go forward. But coach, I appreciate

you taking the time. No, my pleasure. Anytime. Awesome conversation there with one of the decision makers in soccer. And you can see a little bit into their process and how it's been successful and I think you can feel similar to the conversation I had with Haley Carter and sort of coming out of that you can feel the the true leadership and valuing people and individual situations I think with Ben Pierman a lot of times we like to talk blanket statements young player needs to do this to move here. Good player needs to be playing here. And you can hear from Coach Pierman talking about each individual and their specific situation

and what works for some and doesn't for others and the ability to help everyone strive and push. The USL is sitting in a really interesting place right now. And I think I'm going to try and have some more conversations around the league to talk about what the future is for the league and what the enjoyment is. Because I think a lot of USL fans, a lot of people who work in and around the USL, there's a lot to enjoy. There are some great game day atmospheres. There's some incredible talent. There's some incredible soccer quality.

And there's some great rivalries. You sit down and, you know, talking to Coach Pierman, I said it, that time of year where it feels like playoffs. You talk about some of the great games the Tampa Bay Rowdies have played, Louisville, New Mexico, Sacramento, Charleston as well. There are some great moments in North American soccer history that have happened across that league, and I think we're going to try and cover it even more here at SoccerWise. Let's dig into our mailbag now. We start here with Inui, who says, with the retirement announcement of Kristen Sinclair,

who is on your Mount Rushmore of women's players? And his response was, I go with Sinclair, Marta, Sawa, and Mia Hamm. Those are some really good names. And I think those are most of the names that would be on my list as well. You're talking about the all-time leading goal scorer. You're talking about a player in Marta who has been the face of the sport for such a long time. You're talking about Mia Hamm as well. I love that you had Hamare Sawa on this list.

Because to me, that Japan team from 2010 through 2015, really at their peak, that was the perfect soccer team to me. They played the game the way I want it to be played. Every single player on the same page. Ability to connect. To control games. To play in and out of pressure and to have these incredible moments come out of their structure but have that individual flair pop up and Sawa of course was the heartbeat of all of it it was only possible because you had a player like Sawa at her quality who could a match winner, but willing to play within the system

throughout the game and allow that system to be built around her. And so I think this is a really solid list. Michelle Akers, of course, could be added to this list of the most dominant player of her era as well. We got a follow-up question into this from Dan H who said, adding to this, you have to put at least one defensive player up there. Who is it? Now, not easy. Obviously, attacking players get a lot of the accolades as well as the ability to win games and win matches and all of that. I think for me, there's two center backs and I would add a defensive midfielder in here. Wendy Renard, to me, has been the best player on the planet for the last 10 years. And if France had been able to advance any further in any of the international tournaments they've been around, whether it was the Olympics or the World Cup,

I think Renard would have been the player of those tournaments because she was the best player. She is the best player on that team. She is a singular force on attacking set pieces. For a player of her size who can dominate in the air, she can still stay with most attackers in the open field. She organizes back lines. She has obviously done it in every single way at the club level as well, week in and week out. I think Renard is high on that list. Becky Sauerbron, the other big one.

Her ability over a long career to be dominant defensively both in club and in the international scene. Over 219 caps for Becky Sauerbron. I threw this question at a couple former U.S. internationals and she was the first name that all of them named. So you look at a player who won two World Cups, dominant, of course, in the region. You add in the Olympic performances as well for her, a gold medal in 2012 and a bronze in 2020. One of the reasons I think you were able to span across slightly two different generations from 07 all the way through to 2020 and have success. Becky Sauerbron's ability at the back and Formiga, the other one.

Of course, longevity with Formiga is a huge part of the conversation. Her ability to play in six World Cups. But she got better almost as her career went along. Now, I can't say I watched Formiga play a ton of club soccer, bouncing around, playing indoor for a lot of years, playing in Brazil, a little bit in the U.S., but finishing in her late 30s and early 40s with PSG and becoming an influential central part of that team shows what she could have been in a high leverage club her entire career. And we saw it for Brazil over and over again. So those would be the defensive players in this conversation.

But I really like the list that you came with. So I'm going to stick with it actually person for person. And those would be the three defenders that I would mention in that conversation. And I would probably take Renard if I was building a team and had the option. Jules Margs in here says, with the new NWSL CBA, payrolls are going up. Do you think the NWSL PA will release the salary figures anytime soon like the MLS PA does? I think we're still a couple steps away from that. I think you have a situation where it is not something, I think, of a huge point of pride for a lot of players.

It is great to get paid to play professionally. The contracts and salaries are going up. We talked with Tori Hooster, the president of the CBA, about what they've been able to accomplish for guaranteed contracts, as well as control for players to not be traded against their will. But I think it's tough to put someone's financial information out there when it is not in these astronomical numbers. Now, it's not in major league soccer, but you have a bigger spread,

and you have players making hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars consistently in that league. And, of course, it's very common coming from the NBA and NFL where contracts are put out there. I would be surprised if that was something we saw very, very soon. Up the loons here says, should we make a quote best player award so that we can actually have a most valuable player discussion. The MVP is a broken conversation. It's a broken conversation in every sport. It doesn't really make sense. It is something that you are all debating. I think most valuable player versus best player, the assumption is best player is who had the best season. So in Major League Soccer, you could say Evander wins

best player because he's having the best season and he deserves it. And then most valuable becomes this conversation we have around MVPs of who is quote unquote valuable to their team, which is really hard to figure out and really hard to decipher. So I think there is a reasonable spot there. But also at some point, like you play sports, you win awards and trophies. You don't always need to add more things. We give away awards for players whose accomplishments are that their team gets to win games, go into postseasons and go and win trophies. Like in the end, that's what these players are playing for. It is not for those individual awards.

So while the conversations around some of these are broken and there are people who have deserved coach of the year awards or MVPs or young player awards or whatever it is that haven't gotten them, I think they'll all survive. And I think we can stick to just the one trophy, but I can understand this. Second question here from Up the Loons, which I really liked said,

when people argue the 2017 Toronto team is better than Miami or Columbus this year, do they mean relatively? Or do they actually mean that if you could put that team on the field today against Miami or Columbus, they'd win? I feel like the whole league has gotten so much better that it's skewing how people compare the two. I think you put 2017 Toronto into 2024 MLS and things look very different? This is a great question and I can fully understand the thinking. There is zero doubt that Major League Soccer has developed, especially from a technical point of view, every single year. Now, I don't know purely on players how different the league is, but you've added tactical understanding. You've added analytics, scouting, health ability to help players from the nutrition and health point of view and all those things.

You've added a ton on all of those sides. And you've added more spending. So you've added more players. But you look at the profile of let's talk specifically about the 2017 TFC team. And a lot of the players at their position fit the positional profiles of what you look for in Major League Soccer right now. Drew Moore and Chris Mavinga at center back. Mavinga's career layout, similar to what you see,

brought in at the center back position right now in Major League Soccer. You think about when he came over, coming over from playing in Russia, playing in France, you know, when he came over, coming over from playing in Russia, playing in France, you know, at 26 or 27 years old, Drew Moore, an MLS veteran. You look at Stephen Bateshore and you look at Justin Morrow. Those are both high level starters at the fullback position currently in Major League Soccer. If they were to play today, then you look at having the big three, Sebastian Jovinko, Josie Altidore, Michael Bradley.

All three of those are genuine DPs in Major League Soccer right now. Jovinko would still be one of the best players in the league. Josie at his peak, a dominant center forward, Michael Bradley. Of course, what he was able to do playing both ways and controlling the game for the team. And Victor Vasquez as that fourth DP for them, right? That's what he brought them. He's a player who we saw, even as he aged, continue to be effective at times in Major League Soccer. Jonathan Osorio was on the bench for that team as well.

Started in the final, but was not a consistent starter in that group. Benoit Cheru on the bench as well, some more experience, some more quality. So I do believe that TFC team would compete. And I talked to some people about this. And I think when you go back and look at the top MLS teams over the course of the years, a lot of them could compete in head-to-head in games. I think it's the depth that has changed. I think when you go back, if you took the 90s DC United teams in the 2000s, whoever you want to choose the New England Revolution who couldn't win, but we're able to get to MLS Cups and had, you know, really good starting 11s from back to

front, right? Matt Reese through Shalari Joseph, some great veterans at center back all the way through to Taylor Twelman, Pat Noonan on those teams, Steve Ralston in those groups, right? Avery John was a World Cup starter. You had a ton of talent in those teams. You go through to the Keen Galaxy teams, into some of the good Sounders teams, into TFC, and then through to Atlanta and LAFC as the game changed a little bit. I think a lot of those best 11s, a lot of those MLS Cup winners could contend, but I think over the course of a season and over the course of all competitions, that's where they would struggle, where I think it would

be hard for them to play in League's Cup, an Open Cup, or a Canadian Championship, a CONCACAF setup, as well as into major league soccer. Rupe says here, what the F is wrong with FC Cincinnati? And we got a response from CK in the mailbag chat who said, well, if you start Elvis Powell and Tanisha Debbie either side of Miles Robinson in a back three, you're probably going to have a bad time. This is a dangerous moment for FC Cincinnati. You are between the difference of we are in a bad run of form versus it may have fallen off the cliff.

They may have picked up too many injuries for them to continue to believe that they can get the results. Because that's been one of the things with this group is there has felt like moments where they have one hand behind their back and yet the group seems to play in a way that believes they're going to get the results and get the job done. Even when Acosta has been out, you've seen their ability to play through other players and their ability to be able to look at Luca Orejano and say, this can be the best player on the field today and we can get a win. And to move Yuya Kubo all over the field and to fill in at the center back positions and to bring Kelsey in after they've lost their starter in Bupenza to get some goals from him. And it feels like the wind has gone out of their sails in a way

in which they are starting to feel like they're coming up empty maybe. And that's always a dangerous thing for a team that's in a situation like this. We talk about it on the NWSL side right now with the Washington spirit of like at some point you feel cursed and it doesn't feel like your year and you kind of put your head down and move on to the next thing. And it feels right now dangerous that that could be the story for this FC Cincinnati team, even though the 11 they roll out there in most playoff series, they'll have the better 11. They will have the best player on the field in Lucho Acosta. They will have a great piece at every line,

but I do think the weaknesses at those wide center back positions are something they're not going to be able to overcome for the rest of this season. They did as best as they could, right? Going and get Awusium, getting a teenage Hedebe in a moment in which there really were no other available players that you could pick up.

Teenage Hedebe had some fine moments for the Houston Dynamo, and he had them for a team that struggled. I don't know that he fits this system perfectly, but as a wide center back, you could see him be able to be, you know, a fine player and give you performances, but it just feels like there's too much for Miles Robinson to cover for, and then that starts to limit Orijono or Assad or Yedlin's ability to get into the attack and create that width, and then you start to have your attacking players individually isolated. And you don't have a ton of individual quality in that attack because of the losses they had at the forward positions.

Both from injuries as well as from not having Bupenza work out as the signing you wanted. So I think for FC Cincinnati, you just want to make sure you close out this year in a way in which you don't feel shaky. And you do feel like all the key pieces are going to come back positive and hopeful for the future. Let's close out with the Jamaican. I think it's a combination of Jamaica and America. And as always, I struggle with these names, but I appreciate the questions from everybody. Discord's been on fire this week. Cannot wait to be in there um over the course of

the next few days for some big games coming up and the question is are there any mls players who haven't gotten much in terms of looks with the usmnt that you all think deserve a look now it's tough because as i have said over and over again it's really young player pool doesn't feel like there's a ton of other options most of the names that pop to mind are players that are more potential than deserve, right? We now look back and say we all wish Esmir Barak Terevich, Obed Vargas, they got calls up to the first team, right, to get that opportunity and for them to have picked the U.S. But those players would have been called up at the time mainly on potential, and I think that's the case with a lot of players that you think of and you talk about. Jake Davis is an

obvious one to me with supporting Kansas City, especially as an attacking right back. If he can defend that position at a high level, as well as you talk about tournament soccer, you need versatility, a guy who can play multiple positions. I think he's clean on the ball. I think he's a good connector. I think he could be a really interesting player going forward and one that maybe we would see. I think Justin Glad, when healthy, has earned the opportunity to get back into a center back conversation.

I know physically maybe he struggles at the international level, but he's having a really strong year when he is in the team Salt Lake is a different team I think he's put on some muscle I think he's learned how to play around some of his deficiencies a little bit as the season's gone along and I think he's a player who also is plays in a position of weakness and could be a player that could help the U.S. men's national team so those are two that pop to mind a little bit. Obviously, I have to say Patrick Ajamang, the Ashigod, but he doesn't even start for Charlotte right now,

which is a mistake by Charlotte. So hopefully next year he gets onto a team that gives him the opportunity to be the main starter. Max Arfsten is a player amongst a few players where you say, is it Columbus-based? Is it fitting that system and being in the right team or is this a player who can really be a difference maker at an elite level going forward and that's a decision that I'm not 100% sure on yet I lean a little bit on the Columbus side so you either want to see it a little bit longer or if he ends up making a move see it with a different team as. So those are a few of the names that pop in my head. Cole

Bassett would be the other one, right? Cole Bassett, I think, has been the, what I named him, Ryan Gauld, working class MVP of 2024. He's had an incredible season, bounce back season for his career. I don't know that he fits what the U.S. is going to build, but I'm also not 100% sure what it's going to look like under Pochettino. He's played well enough to earn the spot. And if Pochettino is going to do as Paul Tenorio and Michele Giannone came on the show over the last week and have said that he's been pretty adamant about that every spot is to be earned.

And if you're playing well, then you're going to earn an opportunity and you can battle for a spot. Then Coleett off his performances and his production deserves to be in that conversation all right that's all for us on the show today we have the weekend coming up we are back on Monday for anyone else who is celebrating Yom Kippur like myself I hope it is an easy fast for you. I hope it is a peaceful year for all of us coming forward because there's nothing we need more. And we'll be back with SoccerWise coverage

coming up next week as we head into Decision Day. Thank you once again to Coach Ben Pierman for taking the time to talk to us and for the Charleston Battery for setting that up. And thank you to all of you for listening. We'll talk to you again very, very soon.