SoccerWise - Calling Up A Friend

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Susannah is leading today’s Committee gathering while David is off in the badlands riding a bison. The Committee is joined by Susannah’s former tag team partner and current co-host of Full Time for The Athletic, Jillian Sackovits. The duo are joined by Committee members Tom Bogert and Matt Doyle. Tom celebrates his championship victory at his adult rec soccer league. Jillian gives us the inside scoop of what it was like to be on the field for the Luis Suarez spitting incident after the Leagues Cup Final in Seattle. The crew discuss their best and worst transfers of USMNT players after the European transfer window has closed and Tom has gotten sleep. Susannah asks Matt if he knows what “RIZZ” is before Jillian unveils her Rizz Player Power Takes. The crew picks their preferred players to see for this Saturday’s USMNT vs. South Korea friendly in Harrison. 50 States of Soccer: New Jersey kicks off this week before closing out the show and give our flowers to Jillian and The Call Up.Subscribe to The Kickback Minutes here: https://kickbacksoccer.com/Listen to Full Time at The Athletic: https://fulltimepod.com/Show Timecodes:02:21 - Tom’s Victory Lap and Trophy03:25 - Luis Suarez spitting incident17:33 - USMNT Best & Worst Transfers39:37 - Jillian’s RIZZ Player Takes49:55 - Preferred USMNT Starting XI vs. South Korea01:03:13 - 50 States of Soccer: New Jersey01:17:48 - Close of Show and Call Up Shoutout

What is up soccer friends? This is the kickback committee. We are glad you're here. I'm Rosamana Fuller and you are in for today because, no joke, we have assembled the best of the best for today's episode. I'm not even kidding. Like, I'm just so geeked out about our committee today. Joining me as fellow committee member and soccer-wise host,

the one-and-only Tom Bogart, who might be able to get some sleep after yesterday's deadline. We don't know to be determined. We also have honorary committee member and our very good friend, Matt Doyle, joining us. Hi, Matt. Hi, Suez. I'm getting bit by my cat right now. Dr. Chico is here. All is right in the world.

We are here for the cat content. And last but certainly, not least, this is, I'm going to get emotional because this is a reunion of epic proportions for me and my bestie, Jillian Sackovitz, making her kickback committee debut. Oh, the call-up, the call-up reunion that we've been begging for, Jill. This is it. It's so good to see you. It's so good to have you on. Yeah, just wait for everybody here. For this big moment, just wait for the, just wait for the guests that we have lined up as a surprise today.

It's going to be absolutely. We're all cats. And by that, I think it could be mine, Sees or Doyle's cat. Tom, do you have a cat? I don't. I'm a dog person. I have two dogs that are upstairs to sleep. Two dogs.

She sounded very Jersey, which is appropriate because we're going to be talking a lot about your home state. Buckle up, buckle up. On a serious note, my absolute honor and privilege to be here with you, but also this group. So thank you for having me. I'm here for the ride. I love this group so much. Like I was seriously so geeked out all today, like prepping for this and just kind of like,

hey, I get to hang with my favorite soccer people today. What a world, you know? This is work. This is work, guys. But this is going to be so much fun. We have such a fun, fun show today. We are going to be talking all things, U.S. men's national team ahead of a couple friendlies coming up against South Korea and Japan.

As I mentioned, our 50 states of soccer tour continues. New Jersey is this week's focus. And Tom Bogart knows a thing or two about the great state of New Jersey. And I feel like this is the conversation that you've been preparing your entire life for, Tom. yeah as long as it's only the places that I care about and love rather than any any rivals or anything from as local as local goes and so any pushback is wrong I just have to start off by saying that and I'm looking forward to it I embody this every day I have a feeling you're going to get heckled quite a bit today especially by what I think I think that's every day I think that's seven days a week when do we do the over 30 men's league circuit I have my trophy right here oh congratulations by the way for those that don't know Tom Bogart is also a champion. Yes, it's true.

And he was answering group text messages while he was celebrating. It was several hours after the game, to be fair. But I imagine you had a few beverages. Couple two, three. Beverages, yeah. So that is dedication and I appreciate it very much. We all do.

So with that, before we dive into all the U.S. men's national team fun, And we've got to talk about something that happened over the weekend, the Leagues Cup final. My goodness, what a melee. So on Sunday, the Seattle Sounders took down into Miami 3-0 in that Leagues Cup final, which was like a very decisive and impressive showing from the Seattle Sounders who have now won every single domestic trophy, right? So this should be the narrative.

This should be what we are talking about. Good on the Sounders, but no, but no, Luis Suarez happened and seemingly spit on the Seattle Sounders director of security, Gene Ramirez, during a confrontation following the match. This is obviously not the first time. We have seen Luis Suarez pull these type of antics, but Jillian Sackavits was there on the field in person. What are the odds? This went. What are the ads? We have an eyewitness.

I'm just trying to hang out. You told me I'm going to drink. And now here I'm coming off this big game where Louis Swars has pulled some fighting stuff. Jill, what did you see? Spill the tea. Spill the tea. I brought a sample with me of saliva. No, I didn't.

I wish I did. She was out there collecting forensics. Seen too many episodes of CSI. I certainly wish I did. So many, so many. so many things went through my mind. Can I tell you like the the funniest part of this whole thing is that obviously like in the in the scrum and the 40 people also just I have to say Susanna Collins, I know you have been there for some instant classics in Seattle. Oh yes.

This was vintage classic Seattle. Like it felt good. This was MLS. So that is all the positives. Now when this chaos was happening, I was just zoning it. on Brian Schmetzer. I'm like, you are my post-game interview. I'm not losing. I'm not losing you for a second. But then Brian Schmitzer starts to run away from me, which is very, there's many coaches who will run away from me. This is very on Brian Schmetser-ish. He is class act. And I'm like, damn it. Brian. And then I start to notice that he's over by Messi. And I'm like, oh, are we about to get like a Bruce Arena and San Jose moment again, like where Brian like, and like Leo kind of stayed out of it. You know, he's just standing there with this. People are

like trying to swap jerseys with him, talk to him, Patriot de la Vega, Obed Vargas, I think so over there. And then I see the chaos happening. And the funniest part about it is some of the sounders are oblivious. They got their hands up, they're praying, they're on the field. And it's like these two parallels happening that Miami is just being the villains. And the spitting thing, obviously you I saw it on social media like after the fact like moments later because in the moment I had no idea that Luis Svarez pulled a juror up up uh what's the word when you can't say someone did something um allegedly allegedly yes I'm going to put my reporter head out allegedly you're being very professional and I was writing something about it today and I started

to say that and then you can see it in the video like it's not as that like yeah I think we can drop allegedly. Allegedly. Like, that is the right, like, instinct for you, but like, we can, we've moved past allegedly on this. So I have so many questions, and this is like, obviously for everybody to answer, but like, how long is he suspended? Is this like, is it fair to say? Could this be the end of Suarez in MLS? We've seen guys across sports come back from things like this, including, you know, Charles Barkley, who infamously spit on a fan and soccer players have spit on towards people. But this was just so close. I think that's the thing about it. It's not like spitting in the direction of someone.

If it did happen, he's spitting like two seconds from this poor guy's hat. And like, go pick on someone your own size, Luis Suarez. And then like, lastly is like, are we here for villains in MLS? Like, we've talked about it forever. Like, MLS needs bad boys. They need villains. I didn't think it'd be like the really rich former barso players that decide to like be the villains, like the pistons. This is giving me like Detroit people.

Yeah, this is giving me like Detroit Pistons vibe. So I don't know. I know that act is simply unacceptable, unacceptable. But that's my recap. There you have it. Brian Vera last year, I think you spit on Michael Boxall. Was it at or on? I don't remember.

I'm shocked that he lived to tell the story. I would mess with Boxie. That was three games. But that was also. Mason Toy a few years ago was two. total games and it wasn't as direct as Swarres as was. That's the point. I forgot the Mason toy thing. Wow.

I forgot the Mason. I mean, no, like, the Suarez one was crazy because he goes up, like, first of all, after the whistle, he runs directly at Obed Vargas, who had been given it to him all game long. And there were some like kind of nasty words exchanged, I think, between Messi and Pedro de la Vega as

well. It was, it was chippy. Messy was frustrated. I'll tell you guys, even in the first half, the one thing and you could see on the broadcast that I could see very much so is like, They were frustrating the shit. Sorry, they were frustrated the crap out of my air. We can work blue. We can work blue on this show.

What was the likelihood that Jill cursed before me or did it? It was shocking. It was shocking. Off the fucking charts, I got it. The frustration levels were high like in minute 30. So by the time 90 plus came around, it was a wild scene. So, so, and Doyle, that was the first place I wanted to go to. There are a lot of adjectives.

All of them are negative. The one that comes in mind for me is cowardice. So you just spent 90 minutes getting completely waxed. Like you had a couple chances when you're down 1-0, but Seattle 3-0 was a very correct scoreline given the tenor of that game. And then the referee blows his whistle, so they start celebrating and you run over to a 20-year-old who, as you said, Doyle bossed that entire game.

And like having to be restrained from him because you're just jawing in his face, that's when you decide to show a fight. Like, it's just so weak, it's so cowardice. I don't know, man. Hold on, so is Bluest gets coming over. That second half. right from the start of the second half to about the 80th minute that was miami's game they had two congratulations it had them all sideways a bunch yeah they missed a couple chances you're

you're absolutely correct they missed their chances they deserve the loss but like to say this was a one-sided game that 3-0 was completely reflective and that Miami didn't show fight they absolutely showed fight they didn't have their finishing boots on and then seattle punish that okay You quibble with whether or not Of your lies, Tom. My point is, like, the whistle blows and then you go over to a 20-year-old and just put your hand all over,

like, screaming at him to the point where a teammate had to, like, physically remove his hand, and then Bousquetts comes over, and look, if you're going to punch somebody, swing, dude. Like, that was also, like, cowardice, too. It's just, that's the stuff that rose me the wrong way. Like, they, was that the most ground that Bousquet's covered in that game?

Going over to, to come in on the side of Obed Board. Sick burn, Tom. It's just such coward nonsense, man. And like, show fight in the 90 minutes. Okay, so with this, with all this, taking all of this into account right now, I know how I feel about Inter Miami at the moment. And, like, Doyle, I had spoken to you a few weeks ago about how, like, the whole, like, messy magic is kind of, like, dying for me.

Like, how unlikable right now is this Inter Miami team? Because for me, I'm just kind of like, ew. Like, they are kind of like the baddies, the villains. Oh, they're the bad boys right now. Well, said, Sus. I'm going to zag. I love it. I think it's great.

We've all sat through too many DPs who come to this league, whether they're 27 or 37 years old, and don't give a single shit. We've all seen it. Tom's favorite player of all time, Stephen Chirard, was an absolute disgrace in MLS. And I would rather see, I would rather see guys who go out there and care. every week maybe a little bit too much in this case definitely a little bit too much and lose their minds from time to time than guys who are completely indifferent and we saw it with pierlo we saw it with lampard we saw it with gerard we saw it with too many players going back all the way i'll say lothar matthias the worst signing in mLS history caused me multiple sleepless nights

and cost the the red or metro stars multiple years gave me these gray hairs and in this bald head. Like, I think it's awesome. He did so much to you. It was more than he did for the Metro stars. I think it's awesome. I think he'll get suspended, Suarez as well, and probably Bousquet.

Spitting, though. Like, yeah, it's gross. Like, that is nasty. That is, to me, like, spitting on somebody is the ultimate sign of, like, I'd rather be punched in the face. 100%. Like, then spat on.

You ever been punched in the face, Suez? You ever been punched? I've been punched in the face a few times. and I'll tell you, I would rather be spat on. What's the number one reason, Doyle, that someone punched you in the face? Was it over a girl? It was every single time

it was me being a drunk asshole and I deserved it every single time. That's, like, so admirable of you. I don't know if I got punched the face. I'm almost 50. I can't lie to myself about it anymore. Self-awareness. I got to agree with Doyle.

I got to agree, like, the spitting part, I think, is deplorable. As a human being, I wouldn't advise, like, my kids to do it, but... It's good. I, you know, I like some villain behavior. I like some bad boys.

MLS needs it. You know, these guys are also nice to each other. Now, does Inter-Miamy look like sore losers? Yeah, but I don't hate some bad boy villain behavior. And that combined with DeRasario, just being like, I want to be the man. I was like, this is what it's supposed to be like. This is sports. But, yeah, I'm not condoning it, but I think it's nice to see how much people care.

in terms of potential retributions, first of all, I got a statement from a Leaks Cup spokesperson that said the Leagues Cup organizing committee is still reviewing the incident and will act accordingly. There's going to be a lot from them. But guess what? Leagues Cup doesn't resume until 2026. What does that matter to Swars and Bousquet? So I made a few calls today. And like, I didn't get any definitive answers on it. First of all, it was we have to respect the process of the Leaks Cup organizing committee. They have to go through their recommendations and everything, and then they put out their stuff, and then more or less, the league could decide. And in the past, Mike Petke, in, I didn't even remember the Leaks

Cup had started in 2019. In 2019, in a Leaks Cup match against Tigrace, he berated the ref and got a three-game Leaks Cup suspension, and then MLS added another three games on top of that before RSL ended up just terminating his contract when that suspension was finished. And then another big named one was in 2015 when Clint Dempsey took the referee's notebook out of his hand and ripped it up and got the red card. So he got, I don't know, a thousand game suspension in the Open Cup and probably...

He's still suspended. Yeah, he's still suspended. MLS added another three-game suspension in league play. And then if you look at the CBA, and this is courtesy because I did do this, our friend Tim Hotsie, he dug up in the rulebook that MLS does have. jurisdiction, they can punish

players for what they do in the Leaks Cup or the Open Cup or whatever in MLS. And they really should in this scenario, is my strong feeling because was Suarez and Bousquet's, we don't know, they might come back, they might not, to

suspend them for the 2026 Leagues Cup and then like maybe both of them retire in December, not a good look. Not the best look at all. I definitely think that they're going to have to kind of really come down hard on Suarez for this. It's just like you can't, you, to use Jill's word, it's deplorable. It's deplorable.

But disgusting. I'm also kind of, I'm, the sort of like vitriol that I'm feeling right now for the whole situation and for Inter Miami, it could be a good thing to Doyle's point. Like, it's like, okay, maybe it's good to hate a team, you know? Like, I'm going to, it's really, didn't people already hate this team, though? oh but now there's now there's no one even close to yeah close to um there's nobody even like close to on the fence there's levels to the hate like remember how much more you hated the boston celtics when they won the championship year and a half ago time do you remember that

what happened this like i i've never gotten that to that place with the new york mix not even not even when we were eliminating you for the playoffs this season and and ending what you were talking dynasty didn't didn't matter no it's not ended it's just not pause for a year. We'll be back. It's fine. This is fine. Can I just add one note to cap off this conversation? About the next? I'd love to talk about the next. I think the only, not the only, the thing that should be making fans feel like that Minter Miami is not going to get the pass if it had been, for example, Paul Rothrock who spit at somebody is the fact that I think that the league made a little bit of a statement when they did suspend

Messi for not showing up to All-Star. I think that that said a little something. We'll see how much they want to pull the hammer down because, I mean, the Bex was walking around. So I think that adds some bonus points to enter Miami's resume right now. Moral of the story, spitting is gross and Luis Suarez is an unhinged individual. I think we can all agree. Yes, there we go. Those are my takeaways.

All right, guys, let's move it along to some U.S. men's national team talk, shall we? Camp currently underway in New Jersey, P.S., ahead of two upcoming friendlies. Again, South Korea and Japan, it's been a pretty busy summer for some of guys in our national team player pool. We've had some big transfer moves. Eunice Musa to Adelanta, happening kind of at the close of the transfer window. Also, Benhamine Kramoski is apparently on loan at Parma, which I only found out about a few hours ago. So there were a lot of moving and shaking even as the deadline was closing. But I want to kind of go through a few of these moves.

And I want you guys to kind of talk about the ones that you think are the best, like your favorite move of the transfer window for these U.S. MES national team players and your least favorite. So best and worst transfer move. And Tom, since you're the man who basically lived and breathed this for the last, God knows how long, we'll let you kick it off. Yeah, there's, my feelings have already changed on several of these moves. So like, if we were talking about this four weeks ago,

I think Malik Tillman was the one that I really, really liked going to Bayer Leverkusen in a team where he's essentially the Florin-Vitts replacement and going to get to be the man at a really good team in the Bundesliga. and then that move took a little while then he wasn't quite in training and then he was held out of games because his fitness allegedly wasn't there whatever Eric Tenag was saying

and now Eric Tenhawk after three games has been removed from the team because he's like for that bad. Yeah, so maybe if they get a normal manager it would be Malik Tillman and the kind of same thing goes with Johnny Cardoso. I really like him going to Diego Semione Analytico Madrid

and he started their first league. I think that I'm going to end up with Johnny Cardoso here for the best Though, you know, we'll see what happens with the managerial situation at Leverkusen with, with, with, with, uh, with, uh, Malik Tielman. Uh, Doyle, you, you, you were, uh, very, I don't know, kind of doubtful about this move for, for Leverkusen and Malik Tillman when we spoke a couple weeks ago, you were kind of like, I don't know if he's, if he can be the guy. Um, he has scored a goal. I know they are not off to a good, a great start, obviously. Um, Tenhag paying the price for that.

But have you changed your tune at all about the Tillman? They changed his name from Eric Tenhag to Eric Three Games. So that's number one. No, I've not changed my tune on Tillman. I think he's like a $4 or $5 million player. I don't think he's a $35 million player. And it's unfair to judge him at this point, I think, just because it was such a disaster, his preseason and the way they've come out so far in this Bundesliga season.

You know, he's going to be on the national team either way. I've just never seen anything from him that suggests like he's the guy who could run the show at a really high level either in the Bundesliga or for the national team. And maybe we'll get, you know, he's going to play probably 180 minutes between these two games. So hopefully we'll get to see some of that. But no, it's it's the other number 10. in, not that Tillman's really a number 10, but it's the other number 10 in the Bundesliga. It's the fact that Gio Raina finally got to move away

from Berisha Dortmund's medical team that has me really pumped because they notoriously have like the worst training staff in all of Europe. And he obviously has the worst hamstrings in all of Europe. So it's been a pretty unhappy mix. God, I hope this kid gets healthy and can play and be 80% of what he's looked like if he's even 80% of what he looked like in his best moments with the U.S., you know, in the midst of all these injuries over the past five years,

then that's a guy who is a written in Penn starter for this team. And I honestly believe at this point he's the only one in the pool who's a real ceiling raiser. Like he's the one who can actually get on the ball and run the show. against big teams in big moments if he's healthy. And I think and hope and maybe I'm wishcasting a little bit that he will be healthier for Mungglobac than he has been for Dortmund since he first did his hamstring. And I think it was 21 or was it 20 when he did his hamstring.

Either way, it's like four or five years of this now. It's brutal. Real brutal. Are you happy that he's staying in Bundesliga? because there's a part of me that thought maybe his game would have fared better. I think the way he plays, I was like, oh, Seria seems like a great spot for him, La Liga, even. But do you think staying in Bundesliga is a place where he can evolve as a player, even though right now we know the important thing for him is staying healthy and getting minutes?

Yeah, like, I'm with you. I thought that Syria would have been maybe a better place. place that said it's not like it was parma who it's not like i watch a lot of parma i can't tell you exactly how they play or anything like they could be a high pressing team for all i know um but just like in general the bundesliga is a more attritional league like there's more running there's more work against the ball and um if you watch geo man he has not been confident sprinting for like two years at this point and that is going to be a huge hurdle for him to take um maybe the Mudu's Liga wasn't, like, staying in the Buddhist Liga wasn't the right spot for him to try to take it.

But I think he was out of options. I don't think there were any, like, it's not like there was a bidding war for him. So let's just all keep our fingers crossed, right? That he has some good injury luck and good fitness and gets back into Pachitino's good graces, because I don't think we've talked about that, which maybe we should, and that we get to see him again in the next camp, or, you know, maybe November's. Yeah, and maybe a change of scenery is, is, you know, good. Maybe that's the thing.

Maybe that's, that can be the thing that can sort of turn this around for him. I think that's the key, Suez, I think that's the key for Gio Raina is, I think there has to be, you know when players talk about, oh, this move to blah, blah, blah, where I didn't speak the language. That's not the case with Gio, it's staying in Germany. But that sometimes a change of scenery of any level was like what they needed to mature in the next way. I think with Gio, it's like, we know he has the skill. We know that he could be hopefully the best team, you know, one of the best players that this U.S. men's national team has. But

I think he needs like the next level of like his own like personal development because he has the skill. And like Doyle, like you said, you know, he's got to get, he's got to get healthy. But I think he's come across at times as so privileged and maybe a little like arrogant and comfortable. that I think this humbling now. Maybe a little. Maybe just a little. This humble, but a change of scenery sometimes is like, I don't know, maybe it's like figuring out his new apartment or whatever it is like, he's got to kind of take that next step of maturity.

And maybe it's a new team. I would have loved for it, though, to be a new league, to be like, go be really uncomfortable and go grow up a little bit. Kind of like when we all study abroad. Maybe it's simplifying it. I was very comfortable when I did that. Yeah, maybe that's why I kept getting. hit in the face because I never studied abroad.

You know what Gio Raina could use? I mean, maybe just a punch in the face. Maybe that is what Gio needs. You know what I mean. Like, go be uncomfortable a little bit. I totally get it. Yes, of course, healthy medicalness and medical clearance is important. But you know he has the skill and I just think he needs to be like the next level of an adult.

Yeah, I agree. And I think that there are there were times over the. the last, I would say, three years that we, like, Gio Raina would be out on the field and I would argue that he was the most important player for the U.S. men's national team when he was fit, when he was healthy, when, you know, he was confident. And to have this sort of, I don't know, I don't want to say fall from grace, but it kind of is for, for Gio, certainly in, in terms of his value with the U.S. men's national team and where a Pachitino sort of sees him fitting in, This is absolutely necessary.

And I think that we can all agree that the U.S. men's national team would benefit from a Giorina that's clicking on all cylinders. He's the best big game player, the U.S. national team, has ever had. And I was looking through his numbers. I don't have them directly in front of me, but I think he's played in five finals for the U.S. And he has two goals and three assists. So he averages one goal contribution per final that he's in as just comparing it to Clint Dempsey and Landon Donovan, consensus two best field players that we've ever had.

I think between them they played 11 finals and they had six combined goals and assists. So Geo has almost equaled the total goal contributions of Donovan and Dempsey and he's 22 and has been hurt for most of his. life at this point. So get this guy healthy, change the scenery. I wish it was a change of league. I'm with you guys. But like, let's get him on the field. And he doesn't even have to be, like, I'm not talking 3,500 minutes across all competitions this year for Bruchman-Munchen Glawback. If he plays 1,500, I want to see him with the U.S. Okay. So some of the, what are some of the moves that we, we haven't particularly liked for the U.S. men's national team

and player pool. Tom, are there, are there, is there anything that kind of sticks out? Jill rose her hand. I think that that you should, you should go ahead of me. I don't think I should ever go out of you. No. I'm just like overzealous over here like first day of school by the way. I didn't have a good answer anyway. Mine is just like happy to be here. I have one answer. So mine is not that I don't like it. Like, I love the sound of it. I love it for him because he was very open that this is what he wanted. But in terms of, we're using a USM&T lens today, right? In terms of my USM&T, like, glasses, it makes me, like, nervous, like, am I going to throw up? And that's

Patrickajuman. Not that I'm, I love that it was like a tracker fee for Charlotte, banging in what, like, 22 goals over 70 games for Charlotte. Like, I love everything that Big Pat did for Charlotte. But he left a team that's right now third in the east and going to the championship where we see like it going well for USM&T strikers, them doing well in league play. But it has to go well for Big Pat over the next 10 months. And that's the part about it. That just makes me nervous when I put on my USM&T glasses for his career. I love that he went to Europe. He's a great guy. I've loved when I've interviewed him. I love this. move for him, but like this has to work right away for us, our U.S. hearts. That's my take.

It's unfortunate that he's currently out with a hernia surgery. He has not made his debut for Darby County, and that's obviously out of his control. So it's not off to the best start. I think he's going to fit really well in the championship, just his style of play. And again, whether or not Darby County is going to be high enough up the table, but like going to a league that now has Sargent, Damien Downs, Haji Wright, like, that's, it's going to be pretty clear of, like, yeah, there are nuances and context clues to every situation,

every team, but as close as you can get is all four of us playing the same league, who's going to play the best? And that's my least favorite move is that Josh Sargent is still in that league. Because we've seen him, what, for the past four years? The move that didn't happen is your least favorite thing. Yeah. And look, I understand, like, he and his family are apparently very happy

in Norwich, which have ever been to the east, of England like that's that's pretty that's pretty grim man um like we've seen this guy he's clearly you know a top two or three striker in the championship um for the past couple of years i thought he was going to get a 20 million dollar move to syria or ligand or la liga and i would have loved to see him in any back to the bundesliga you know like i would have loved to see him in any of those spots more than just another year of being really good in the championship. I'm bummed about it. I hope it ends up not mattering because I still think he's the most talented player,

the most talented number nine in the pool. And I hope that he finally breaks his six-year goaless drought for the national team and gets a couple this weekend. But like I'm, I wish that. I wish I was watching him play with Adelanta or, you know, back to the Bundesliga. You know, Eintracht Frankfurt, their latest number nine off their assembly line that they do so well with every year. Something like that would have been so much better than another year. Can I ask you a quick question, Doyle, about that?

You know what it kind of comes to mind? And this is no knock on him. It's truly like one of my favorite humans in MLS. And I think that in the long run, it's worked out really well for him also, despite an injury in this. very moment is remember back in the day when like join morris had before he got hurt and then didn't make the move but the potential move prior to that didn't go to europe because he like liked life in seattle and like i think the criticism was like he wanted to stay back with like his family and his dog um that's kind of the vibe i'm not i'm not trying to be funny i think that's

like what people were saying he was much younger there then but that's kind of like what i get like a little PTSD from? Yeah, I think that is actually a pretty good, a pretty good comparison. And, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Like, Jordan Morris had a pretty good national team career. Better than Josh Sargent so far, certainly. Yeah, it worked out.

Yeah. But maybe it didn't work out as, maybe it didn't work out as well as it could have. And we're getting to that point with Josh Sargent. Like, if he doesn't show it this weekend, we might not see him again. until the next cycle. So you guys don't agree with me with Ajiman at all. Like, everyone just feels like he'll do great, like love the coach, love his team. Money was part of it.

That's it. It was a great deal for Charlotte. Joe, but like, Joe, you did the, you're like, I understand all of this, but taking away just like the next, whatever, nine months. The problem is he was making like $80,000. And that wasn't changing. Like, contract talks had not, had not advanced in any way. They hadn't even resumed because his camp and Charlotte were in a really bad place

in terms of relationship. They were not close. He wasn't getting a new contract in Charlotte unless that he took whatever their offer was. So again, he's more than tenfold increased his contract at Darby County. The guy told me on this as MLS that his biggest purchase, I said, you know, like, what did you make with your first big paycheck? And he said like a PS5.

And I thought he was going to be like, like that kind of sums it up, right? Like ain't nobody got to talk about PS5 anymore. So he's getting paid. Yeah. Maybe I'm like a little mama seeing him just like spread his wings out there. We want our MLS boys to succeed and do well. It's only natural. Speaking of MLS, though, I'm very curious to get your guys' take on a couple of the moves.

So Paxton Aronson, making the move to Colorado, and then also Matt Turner, after that whole kind of debacle with Leon, signing back with New England Revolution. And I want to ask you this in the context based on what we heard Maricio Pocitino's saying. say a couple weeks ago about sort of the level of competition in MLS and that it's, you know, he doesn't see it as, you know, less than Europe. He said, in fact, he said quite the opposite that he actually thinks that the competition in MLS is better in some regards. So keeping that in mind, do we like these moves for these players, for a Matt Turner and for a Paxton Aronson, who is young?

And also considering like our whole goalkeeper situation right now for for the U.S., which is precarious to say the least, like where, how do we feel? How do we feel about these players moving back to Major League Soccer? On turn, that was a no-brainer that they were able to get it done. Again, the way the story goes is that John Texer went rogue and just agreed a deal to sign him when he was at Leone. And then when he was kind of asked to step away, everybody else in the club was like, well, we didn't. could consult on this deal they tried to cancel it

and then when they couldn't cancel it they were like fine we'll spend the $8 million of fee and immediately loan him to New England and we'll cover some of his salary so Turner getting out of somewhere that very clearly didn't want him in any way that's a no brainer for me and hopefully he like again

when he's in MLS his like shot stopping has been literally historic and Doyle has better analysis on this about like maybe his brain got broke a little bit from too much trying to play out of the back come back here Do what you're elite at. Some soccer players just are not meant to complete a pass.

Isn't that right, Tom? Isn't that right? I'm going to say that's my kind of, that's maybe who I was as a soccer player. I got that feedback from somebody on our list that we're going to be talking about later in the New Jersey five-aside team. So, yeah, the turn to one, that's obvious. In terms of Paxton, Erringson, look, he had options. Southampton came in late, but Salisburg recording him really hard.

And Salzberg is where his older brother played Brendan. It worked out perfectly for Brendan Aronson. He wanted to forge his own path. He was nominated for a young player of the year in the Air Divisier. He could have gone to the championship and done what Brandon was doing in the championship and then in the Premier League. Or he could go to Colorado and be the guy where, like, yes, you have to fight for your place every week if you're at Southampton. And at Salzburg, you get to play Champions League for whatever.

But when you get eliminated from the Champions League, this is no disrespect for the Austrian Bundesliga. It's like going to Celtic. It's trash. It's like going to Celtic or Rangers. There are no games of consequence. You're playing next pro-level teams for three quarters of your season. So I've never, like, again, I get it.

And I'm like, dude, I could have a 90% completion rate if I was playing centerback for Celtic against whoever, in most of their games, right? So I don't think that that's quite the same challenge. Championship, you can absolutely say. But the argument for Paxton-Herrinson is, yes, you have to fight every day in trade. to retain your spot, to stay in the team, to do everything else,

like particularly, like Southampton is a team that has a lot of money in the championship because they're often in the Premier League, so it's difficult. I really like that move for Damien Downs. But, Pax and Anderson goes to Colorado where, yeah, like, if you're on Southampton you don't play well, you're just benched and you don't get a minute. If you're in Colorado or you don't play well, the team is going to stink. The attack is going to revolve around you. It's a different level of pressure.

And again, to defer to Doyle on this one, like, Doyle brought this up a lot years ago about like, hey, look at the best players in the national team pool right now. How many of them does it truly matter, like, in a big, big way if they play well or play poorly? It's like pool sick at Milan, yes. And then how far down do you have to go to find the next guy? And like, Aronson is in that situation now. If he does not play well, the Colorado attack will not be good. Ain't nobody want to be part of a bad Colorado team. It's a scary place. There's something about it when Colorado's bad. It just feels bad, bad, bad, bad. So I I just agree across the board with what Tom said.

Because I quoted you in both of you. No, it's a different, but the big thing is it's a different kind of pressure. Like, if he has a bad game, Colorado is going to lose. Like that is, there are not many other guys, even the player pool, who can say that, including Brendan. I frankly don't think Brendan is a better player than he was three years ago. Now, there's no guarantee he would. be if he had say come back to Philadelphia and been there number 10 right like maybe he would

still just be the same guy but all he does for leads is run that's it like he has not improved as a soccer player and he needed to improve the soccer player part of his game not the running part of his game and Paxton chose a path where he's going to improve or going to have to improve the soccer player part of his game and he's shown it in two games like I've never been a big Paxton-Arensen guy, but he was awesome. Now, granted, just against sporting Kansas City, so, you know, but, like, he was awesome in that game. He created chances left and right.

He was burning dudes off the dribble. It was a really strong showing. And with the things that Pacchino has said in the call-ups that he has made over his, you know, year plus in charge, he clearly thinks if you're doing an MLS, you're good enough to come in and try to do it for the national team. So it's a clear path to the World Cup. It's a clear path to bigger responsibilities. And the kid obviously thinks it's a clear path

to improving the parts of his game that he needs to improve. Love it. All right. Hey, Doyle, I have a question for you. Mm-hmm. Do you know what Riz is? So I'm very old, but I am also very online. Okay.

So. He online? Yes. Very online? Yes. Even that's funny. I don't know why. I, this, this might be the first, this might be the first time I will ever say the word Riz.

I think that it, that was it right there. That's the better question. Yeah. And this is certainly going to be the first time I will be judging how much Riz someone has. So we are breaking new ground. I know, and Doyle, like the whole reason I wanted to do this was just to make you uncomfortable and say Riz. I'm not even kidding. I just thought.

But to be fair, when I, when I messaged everybody in the group chat, Jill was like, wait, is Riz what the kids are calling it these days? She was like, I actually need to like make sure I know what we're talking about. I just wanted to make sure Riz is what I would call cool, right? Like I'm like, I'm on the right track here. That's all I want to do. Definitely. Definitely. So for those that might not be in the know, and I'm, this is mostly for my mother who will listen and be like, I don't know.

Shouts to Susan. Riz is short for charisma. So it's like Riz. And it can mean like swagger. Why didn't you tell me that? Maxi Riz. So that is what we're talking about. So we're talking about Riz.

All right. So when I thought we were talking about kind of like I think he told me the translation was swagger and I was like, okay, got it. Now when we're talking about charisma, some of my choices are going to make us laugh. Because it's just great. Okay, I'm still here for this. So, um, we're going to do some Riz, uh, okay, let me get my Riz notes. It's on a whole not.

Riz ratings. Riz ratings. This is a whole new thing. It's going to sweep the nation, I swear. Okay. Riz ratings on our U.S. men's national team players, specifically this player pool who's in camp right now, guys who are entering into these friendlies oozing with Riz. And so who, who do we think right now?

Because I, I have, there's like, list of maybe three or four guys that I think are sort of at the top of this RIS rating meter right now who are entering in just in really good form. But curious to source you guys and see how you're feeling. Who's rating high on your Riz scale? Jill, I feel like you're dying to tell us. Dying because mine's more like a Riz stream of consciousness. It has some kind of low blows, but also some highs, I'd say. So I'm just going to like run through. this. So Riz, I would say Max Arstead comes in with a decent amount of Riz, particularly after the departure of Olivier Jouroo. For me now, he has the best hair in Major League Soccer. And I think that,

I think that gives you some Riz. Tristan Blackman as well comes in with some Riz. And this is all thanks to Thomas Mueller, because what Thomas Mueller did in the Vancouver press conference by announcing him coming to U.S. camp, that to me is Riz. Jill is absolutely crushing it. I feel like that's on the call. Go solo. It's amazing. Sergio Odess.

Clear out. I don't say has Riz all the time, but the image that I have forever is him sitting in the Lionel Messi press conference in a Michael Jordan jersey straight off the beach. And for me, that gives you probably like Riz for life, right? Jill, that's a guy. So that's, his middle name might be Riz. Like, I don't care what form he's in. It's like he's going to show up, do a couple of skill moves.

and probably put the compilation on social media and of like his all touches or whatever. Like this guy, I don't care what, I don't care if he just played a four out of a 10 in his last game. It's always going to be him because he steps on the field and is like, yeah, I'm that guy. So for me, it's this. Freeman, I'd say I just saw this, DeRasario. It's like, you guys don't want to be compared to their dads. But like, hey, if you say things like, I want to win a championship like my dad did and like Freeman won a Super Bowl, It's like, I want Freeman to get his daddy's Riz and be all about that.

So I have that. Christian Pulisic is my way winner of No Briz. Yeah. Yeah. And Zendajas, I don't know if you caught him at. He was great with me at the Skills Challenge, but then I talked in pregame for All-Star. And I said something around the lungs of like, you are wearing the number 10 now for Club America. Like, talk to me, Zendahas.

And the interview just left me wanting more. So for that, he enters camp without any Riz. And that is my Riz. That's my Riz takes. Wow. Jill just put up like a 30 point triple double right there. I know it was just like, in nine minutes off the bench. You want to know what it's sad.

I don't know what Riz means. And this took me, this was just like things I dream about without even knowing what Riz meant. So there you go. Happy to contribute today. I mean, I don't know what we go from here. Because that was, that was outstanding. Oh, there's lots of people we see. Doyle, where are your notes?

I just keep them all up here, especially when it comes to Riz. The two... The only thing I took notes on today. The two that I had, like, chambered, were Max Arstyn, his obvious Riz, but is like, am I just confusing good hair with Riz? Right? It's easy, easily done. Especially when you have this handicap that I have.

One goes with the other. Right. And then the other one was the desk point. Dest, I think, if we were to distill Riz down to its purest essence, he's maybe the only player in the actual pool who has Riz. Such a good call on Pulisic being the anti-Riz, simply does not have it. Tim Wea, I feel like used to have it. Then he called people who mildly criticized the national team evil.

And to me, that was a Rizeless move. So I think Tim Waya is probably on Riz probation. Rizless. Rizless. I cover. You so Rizeless. I covered the U.S. national team with ESPN in 2022-ish.

And I would say Waiya then had the Riz. Like when they entered the locker room, he was the one with a giant wireless speaker now that I'm thinking about it. But I haven't seen that in a minute. That is a good note for this category. That is a great note for this category. Yeah, but it's been too long and you acted really soft, so you're going down to the CP level, I'm sorry. That's very, I'm glad you pointed that out, Jill.

Wait, I feel like one that we haven't mentioned that I think is quite obvious, is Chris Richards. Yeah. Chris Richards has some Riz guys. The only problem is the way that Crystal Palace. Can Sederbacks have Riz? And the way the way that Crystal Palace plays. Thank you.

Virgil Van Dyke is like Riz personified. So yes, Doyle. Yeah, that's very. I think Chris Richards has, do you know what I've seen from him? It's like this Riz evolvement. Like he has kind of like, he's like the guy at Crystal Pals. He's the anchor of that backline. He's winning trophies with his team.

He's starting every game. The Afro, like it's incredible. It's impeccable. I just, I feel like this guy is like coming into his own. I feel like he's going to be very, very important for the U.S. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think Pachitino rates him incredibly high. And so I feel like this man is like entering into his like ultimate Riz phase, if you will.

His Riz era, the Chris Richards Riz era. I love this for me. Am I still, I still see, I still see a centerback. That's it. What have you got against center back? Nothing, but like, it's not charisma. You know, charisma, you'd be an attack in midfield. Centerbacks have Riz.

Yes. And again, your Van Dyke point was a good one. What about that? That proves the rule, maybe? We're talking about defenders. I think about it's Crystal Power playing with 35% possession and defending like hell.

That doesn't do it for me. Guys, we're not talking about the field, okay? Like, this has really very little to do with what you do. He's contributing a lot on a Premier League team. He's an important player. He's an important player for the U.S. I just think that this guy is, you know, It's happening.

Let me put a potentially controversial subject out there. Diego Luna at one point maybe led the team in Riz, but I feel like he's leaned into hashtag dad life so much that the dadness has removed some of the Riz. Weeby's about the fear. Weeby should really, yeah, Yeah, we should really, like, he's going to come in like a Kool-Aid man into this segment right here. Here's my thing on Diego Luna. He was in my notes, but, like, didn't make, like, top five takes that I felt very strongly about.

The neck tattoos. But, like, we now have to see the broken nose moment. We have to see something else from Diego Luna for him to get that res back. Like, we've talked about it enough. The goal celebration. The mustache. That's it. Does that.

Yeah, the mustache. is good. Yeah. Maybe it's just he hasn't scored a goal in two damn months. So that could be, that could be part of the problem. That ups your ris factor. Mustache. It doesn't do it for me.

Well, guys, I'm really, I'm really pleased with this segment. And I think y'all not did out in the park. I feel we're going to revisit this after. You brought in a ringer with Jill. That was the thing. The brains of the operation was Sue. She came up with the segment. You know, we just did our homework.

I just, I just, I just put it out there and let you guys soar and, and fly. And I am, I'm like a proud mama bear over here. Y'all did great. Okay. Let's quickly, before we dive into some other stuff, I, I would like to kind of collectively look at the ideal starting 11 that we would like to see Maricio Pocitino put out against South Korea on Saturday. So based on this player, I feel like there are some that like some players that are just like automatic like yes, but I'm I'm curious to see like who you think it's a start up top. Like what is the midfield look like. Um, but let's start with let's start with keeper. Let's start with keeper. Matt freeze. Yeah. And like no, any objections. Not. No, it's the easiest one. Okay. Matt freeze locked in. Backline. What are we hoping for? For me, it's I feel like it's Richard's Ream. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then... I would like to see No-Kai Banks, honestly. Okay.

I don't think it'll happen, but it'd be cool to see him next to Richards. You would like to see him pair it up with Richards. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What about the fullbacks? So I got two schools of thought on this one. So Gino Desk is our best right back. He is healthy for the first time in a year.

I think we missed him badly. for a lot of that time, and it would be a very easy thing to see him return, slot in at right back, play Max Arston at left back. I thought Arston was passable at the Gold Cup. I thought Alex Freeman was much more than passable. I thought he was really, really good. So you could also just slot Alex Freeman in at right back and then have Sergenio Dest play left back. Because I think that is something we'll be seeing from the national team in fits and starts over the next year and maybe even over the next cycle. I mean, I would lean towards splitting that 50-50. Give me one game with Dest and Arfston, Dest on the right, Arston on the left.

Give me one game with Freeman on the right and Dest on the left because I think that is going to be a valuable club to play. as for centerback I haven't seen enough in Noaki Banks he was dominant in age group stuff obviously hasn't played a ton in the Bundesliga

Tristan Blackman's been so good this year and has done it in continental competition as well and he's actually a much better passer of the ball that I initially gave him credit for if you look at his underlying numbers his ability to move that Vancouver attack upfield

into like really high leverage spots like I think Potch was right to call him in I really hope he gets at least 90 minutes in these games because he's got the size, he's got the physicality, he's certainly got the speed and I think he's good enough on the ball now too. So like let's see Tristan Blackman get out there. I think we could learn a lot in this camp

about his chances. I agree. And not to get too stuck into like these minute details. There's been a number of players in these camps under poach that I was, you know, in that vein of I hope we see him. Like if you called him in, like, I don't know, Brian White barely played at the Gold Cup. Like there have been, there have been other players that I'd be like, oh, I hope to see him get a decent runout.

And then they just don't at all. I'm afraid that's going to happen to Tristan Blackmun at this camp. We'll see. I love that. Okay, moving along to midfield. How do we see this shaping? up obvious one that i think of for at least the first game in new jersey and this is more like a pulling at your heartstrings is you got to see like the return of tyler

adams squawking into fred ballerina i want to call sports illustrated stadium of course but like that's the obvious one that like i'm just really excited for that moment and uh kind of seeing him come back in there and just makes me feel happy yeah he's also from hopewell junction new york uh which is 10 minutes from my hometown of milbrook so i always feel very connected to him fun fact Yeah, love that. What about Sebastian Burrhalter? Got it. He's been a good partner for Adams.

Here for that. Do we feel like Pocitino is going to go that direction? I don't, it all leaves me kind of cold, to be honest with you. Like, I wish Weston McKenney was here. I wish Eunice Musa was here. I wish Christian Raldon was here. Like I've been all over Blue Sky talking about how he has been the best central midfielder in MLS this season. He has been absolutely remarkable.

And the thing about him is he's doing it while playing is more of a true number six. And what would have been interesting with Roldon in there, first of all, his ability to hit a long ball. He creates more value with his ability to switch the field to play and to tilt the field than any other central midfielder in MLS. but also you can release Tyler to be a pressing eight if you had rolled on back there in a double pivot. And I think Tyler Adams, as good as shield as he is, he's a better destroyer. Like we saw it, I don't remember who it was against. It was like the second week they won one nil, and it was a goal he created just by, like, he does those kamikaze runs against opposing buildouts and creates turnover is where almost nobody else in the world does. So I just wish Christian Raldon were here to play that role and to allow Tyler to sort of spread his wings against the ball.

And I'm not sure that the personnel involved can do that. But maybe that's why Sean Zawatsky's here. Sean Zawazki is a good player. You know, he reads the game really well. I just have questions as to whether or not he's the guy who could really push his way into the discussion in the final 10 months before the, not even eight months. before the World Cup. Of the midfield, okay, so in the midfield pool, we've got Tyler Adams, Sebastian. So we've landed on.

We've landed on Tyler Adams. Luca Delano, Diego Luna, Jack McGlynn, and Shanzwaski. So of those, like, who realistically do we think has a chance of making a World Cup roster? Obviously, Tyler. Yeah. Tyler's written in Penn. Burr Alta has a chance. Like, I would like him more in this role than Zawatsky, but like, again, I think to Doyle's

point, like, a lot of the people who will be talking about in this role aren't on the roster right now, which is, I feel like we've been saying this every goddamn window for the last seven windows. Like, I, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm running out of steam on this just because the amount of times I've been like, oh, no, it's our best team. Yeah. Oh, that'd be cool. And it's like, oh, wow, I feel like I've said that before. It's like, yeah, I have. Last window, too. So I think Tyler's a lock. I think Luna, well, Luna and McGlynn are like in a different, different pool here because we're talking about attacking midfielers with them. And then it's like, okay, De La Tori, he's got a real chance. Burrhalter's got a real chance. Zawatsky's got a real chance. They have to start taking it this weekend. They have to show in these games that they're going to be real factors for to consider.

Hopefully a couple of them do. And obviously it's going to be a big test for Josh Sargent up top. Because I feel like that's the one that we're all kind of, like, looking at and probably hoping that it produces some kind of results. Because I think that number nine position, also Balligan is now included in this. So what are we, I mean, if we had to, if we had to pick right now in form, I think like Josh Sargent is the, he has to be the obvious choice. The guy can't stop scoring goals. at Norwich right now. So how does that translate to the U.S. men's national team? How do we finally establish like this is our number nine?

I don't think that we will before the World Cup. So I hope that Sergeant and Balligan get both each get a start here. Again, like Sergeant has battled injuries in the past. And you think about even at the Copp America, I thought he was coming into that to be the starter. And then he came in, he had to fight real hard to rehab to be able to even be. on the squad. So that could have been the moment where maybe we had an answer. But again, I think either way, like, I don't know what would have to happen for either Sergeant or Balgan to be like, okay, this is the guy because Ricardo Pepe isn't here.

And Ricardo Pepe will play part in this. Yeah, it's just so hard. That's why I'm frustrated, I'm frustrated that we don't have our best players because it's, this is the time when we have to really see what's going to work for 2020. So it's hard to say like, oh, yeah, like Josh Sergeant or Balligan is going to establish themselves as our number nine because the pieces around them are going to be changing and going it's different and so who like what works best together and at what point are we going to see that can I ask one question yes Jill it's not about the strikers if I've talked about

USM and T and strikers it's just it's a downward spiral um my question is for Doyle because I'm sitting here just thinking about it and it's like is there now no chance do you think for Christian rolled in to be called up. Is it is that door closed after you know making the squad for Qatar and it's just sad like if he bowed out with Club World Cup and now like this has been a summer he captains the team at a league's cup against messy. It's like obviously the roster was announced prior to this weekend but like is the door shut for Christian Rolden because that's bumming me out. If it's not entirely shut it's it's almost there. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, it bums me out too.

It's pulling at my little Emily's heartstrings today. I mean, honestly, it's pulling at my USM&T heartstrings because he was so good against Botafogo and Athletico Madrid and PSG. And then you saw what he did against Cruz Azul and you saw what he did throughout the rest of the league. And like, if you can do it against those teams, you can help the national team. And he's finally now playing. best position in the number six and we have literally never seen him play that spot for the national team and it it just it would have been nice but it seems like the book is just about show where was

potch in june was that man on vacation during club wasn't he like at the club world cup games like come on he was i'm pretty sure he was i feel like there were like a lot of pictures cameos him hanging out oh potch i don't mean to get us off on some tangent i'm just sitting here it's aggravating before before we put a pin in our u.s men's national team conversation i want us to all give one wish one wish our u.s men's national team one wish for these upcoming friendlies um jill i'll let you go first mine is for christian pulisak and timothy waya to issue an apology for being so soft to the media in saying that they were trying to collect checks and evil. That is my wish in this town.

I love that. That is a tremendous wish, and I, too, hope that that comes true. Tom, what is your one wish? I hope we see 180 minutes of Pulsek being really, really good. I think that'll put a lot of this to bed. I love that. That was very definitive as well. Doyle.

I'll wish for either, sorry, or balligan, I don't care which to score a hat trick and to look like the answer to that number nine debate we were just having one of these two guys. I do not care which one. 100%. That was my as well. But I actually want it to be sergeant because I love him. And I would like him to score. I'd like him to end that six-year scoreless drop for the U.S. That is my wish. I hope that I fear that this is going to look a whole lot more like the Turkey and Switzerland friendlies than anything else. So maybe, maybe, maybe I should, you know, be a little bit more really.

I hope that they score. If you, if it does, you can't put that, you can't put out in the years today. If it, if it does, does, is there, is there a chance that, um, U.S. soccer makes it, feels like they have to make a decision? Well, don't, don't, don't they, didn't they, um, who's the, who contributed to this contract? because don't they have to run it by more people down? Right, right. No, there's that billionaire, what's his face.

The guy, Nick Offerman played him in a Netflix movie. That's all I can remember. Yeah. Wow, this got, this took a turn. It did take a turn. It did take a turn. I'm scared. We're about to take another turn on the Jersey turnpike

because it is time to hit on our 50 states of soccer and we're looking at New Jersey, Tom Bogart. So we've been traveling all over the country. Last week was Idaho. We've done North Carolina. We've done Texas. We've done Wisconsin. And now it's New Jersey.

And this one, I mean, talk about, talk about like, I don't even want to say like soccer, like royalty. But like New Jersey's soccer culture is just like dripping. Dripping. So we do the five-aside team here, and you could make four. The fourth New Jersey five-aside team, I think, would compete with a lot of other states. It's actually impossible to do a five-a-side for New Jersey when you look at the names. I was like, because you have to, and also take into account the women's game as well, so it's women and men's. This is one of the states where we should have, we should have one of each because I'm going to feel bad leaving a handful of people off.

like, again, just a few off the top, like Tabramas, like Chloe Lloyd, Heather O'Reilly, Tobin Heath, Christy Pierce, Tim Howard, Tony Mioa, John Harks, Claudia Arana. That's like, what, eight? Right there. Like eight or not right there. And that doesn't, you know, Giuseppe Miaska, Greg Burrhalter, Peter Vermeis, Matt Turner, like, Aleco Escondarian.

Go on down the lid, and the guys that are in their career now. Brian White, John Tolkien. Like, as so many. It's crazy. it why it like what is it why why jersey why has this become a soccer mecca like a lot of history going back to carney and all like again you talk about like meola and harks and tab like they that's where they all kind of grew up like that area is just unbelievable for the history and the soccer culture there you go around like again you're playing in high school around here there's

just so many good players like i played college soccer here like our i would even talk to people who who played elsewhere in the country. It was like, oh my God, yeah, your conference is insane. There was one year, and like the conference is called the New Jersey Athletic Conference. Not the Tom's,

not that Tom's bragging, but like, his conference. There was a year. His conference, guys, it was pretty insane. Let him have this moment, Doyle. People were multiple teams. Really impressed

with Tom's Division III soccer conference. There were multiple years where teams missed the conference tournament and still got an at-large bit to the NCAA tournament. It's just unbelievable. It's just so much talent. So we've got Jill, who's from New York State.

We've got Doyle, who are you Connecticut or are you Pennsylvania? Connecticut. Okay. So these are like arguably. Five pad ajimans. So. Arguably. Four pad ajibons and a Christine Lilly.

Four big paths. I love that. But, you know, these are kind of like two like rival states, if you will, of, of New Jersey like our Connecticut is not a rifle of anybody in any sport we are we're a restop no there's nothing to come out of Connecticut other than the pizza that's it I'm hating on Bogart from like a state state rivalry perspective born and raised in New York but this list is effing incredible it is so solid it's awesome I'm so here for it it's fantastic and I just want to shout out kickback committee guys this 50 states segment because I'm like

excuse you know, I'm like a little bit of like a history nerd, like a news nerd. It blows my mind. The one on Idaho, I literally was like, I got to go. I got to go to Idaho. So you guys are doing the Lord's work here from a soccer perspective. So just thank you for this 50 states. I really love it. You're welcome. Yeah. It has been it has been an education for sure. Like I love finding out these little tidbits about these places that I have no clue about and sort of the soccer history that exists there. It's been fascinating. Fascinating, fascinating. But I would argue that Jersey is probably like the most, like, I don't want to say important soccer state that we have.

Do we, can we, can we say that? It is. Historically, yeah. Historically, it's New Jersey, New Jersey and Missouri because of St. Louis. And then California. Yeah. And, you know, the story is 120 years ago when soccer really started. in the U.S.

The two hop, well, three hotbeds were New Jersey and St. Louis and then southern Massachusetts, like the border between Massachusetts and Rhode Island. And it was the Portuguese there, and it was just the whole melting pot in New Jersey. And then it was the Italians in St. Louis. And they, even as, you know, the old ASL rose and fell and went bankrupt and there was no professional soccer in the U.S. for a while, those three spots that really kept the flame burning. And then, you know, come the start of MLS, really that 1990 World Cup. So before MLS, that team was like, a third of it was from New Jersey, guys like Tab and, and Tony Miola. And then, of course, Peter Vermease from South

Jersey, which we all know is the better part of New Jersey. Wait, yeah, I need, I need the education, Tom, on, like, North Jersey, South Jersey, Central Jersey. Like, I had, like, what, what, what, what, what, what's the dynamic between all of them? Oh, don't, don't, don't try to drive a wedge between us here now. That, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's not happening. But, um, no, it's, because like, there's so much of South Jersey that feels like a, like a, like a Philly suburb. So, like, the Aronsons. By the way, didn't mention the Arons. Oh my God. The Aronsons are New Jersey kids. Um, they're like, they're like, like, in, in our notes in the run down, like Carly Lloyd was further south. And in parentheses, somebody wrote, go birds.

That's how I look at a lot of, like, the Philly suburb. But again, obviously we're claiming them for New Jersey in this aspect. But the more local you go, the more I would call, you know, South Jersey, just Pennsylvania. Okay. All right. Thank you for clarifying. And what would you call central Jersey? My home. Okay. Home of Tom. We know what the worst part of New Jersey is, don't it? Tom, I'm going to put you on the spot, though. If you, if you, if you, Do you have, like, one favorite player from New Jersey?

Like, if you had to, like, immortalize one, one, just one. Just one. Who would it be? Like, the, they represent Jersey, soccer in New Jersey. I know that there is a question here of, are we claiming Michael Bradley? As far as my family's concerned, we do. So Michael, Michael Bradley would be high on this list. But Tom Ramos, like the, obviously, Miola, like, again, lucky to call those

you guys friends i can't split that but like those when you think of like the the history of soccer new jersey and the importance of particularly those like 90s world cup teams like those are the two people i think of is like is meola and ramos yeah hard to argue hard to argue with that one um okay another aspect of this 50 states of soccer tour we kind of we crowd source and we ask like what is the best soccer bar what is the hollowed ground what is the rival state like legendary player of of lore so tom with your vast knowledge of all things soccer in new jersey if i'm going to jersey and i want to watch a match let's say i'm going to watch let's say i'm watch a liverpool match because you and i are both liverpool fans where am i going what's the bar

darcy's tavern and bradley beach new jersey um it is one of my favorite places in the world that that little soccer bar my dad plays for their soccer team close with with all those people, the bartender, like, it's, it's a magical place, and there is no, there is, in my heart here, it's Darcy's, is the absolute best. And again, you go down to Jersey shore, it is well worth. And I don't think that I brought Doyle there. I'm going to need to make that, make that change in the future. In Hoboken, there's a ball car with Mulligans. That is very, very good. Those are the two that are in my world, but Darcy's stands head and shoulders for me, above everything else in the whole country, not just Jersey.

I'm going to have to make it a point to get to Darcy's with you. and how close is it to the beach it is great question it's less you know three quarters of a mile it's in a beach town i can do that jill's in jill's in okay what about hallow ground what is a you know one of those those seminal stadiums or just you know fields that kind of it's just iconic in the state of new jersey when it comes it's the courts in carney it's the It has to start with the storks and Carney. Yeah, honestly, yeah. That's hard to argue.

Again, to pick up games and men's leagues and stuff, like the stories I've heard out of there, I don't believe, obviously, like, when you go into, like the real stadiums, like, giant stadium, MetLife has hosted so many big, big, big games, even though it's not, it's not the most pleasant. The new one looks like a big air conditioner, but that's got to be up there for out of ground.

And again, I will say that, like, it gets sticking on the professional side of things. like Red Bull Arena that was built in 2010 that still holds up as one of the best stadiums in MLS and there's been like 25 built since then

I agree very underrated if only it wasn't such a pain in the ass to get to get to you my only gripe my only gripe because I do love I do love that you know what kills me

every time I pull up there maybe it's been a minute I think it's been like a year price and I've been that same there's so much frigging gravel Like Come on Stop with the gravel

Jill needs the road To be paved with diamonds Okay Can a girl Like I just want some pavement And like in between And you know what In between the parking spots

A couple trees And then it's all good There's an empty warehouse Near the stadium Too many pebbles There's a couple I was just gonna say But you're like the warehouse

Yeah that's what I'm saying And like there's a couple bridges that look like Tony Soprano would have visited in the day. I love that. Like that all feels good to me. Hire a Tony Soprano to come do the paving job and put some pavement down and a couple trees and we're good to go. Chill wants some green.

Damn it. No more pebbles. Okay. So on that note, rival state. Is it New York or is it Philadelphia? Like what are we, where do we go here? Somebody in the notes wrote, itself. question mark

that might be the most New Jersey thing I can't I can't beat those it's first everybody and again Doyle's gonna correctly make fun of me

I played ODP I played for team New Jersey we hated fucking everybody like everybody hated us like that

and whether you call it New York or PA hell even Delaware but that feels like a little little sibling kind of thing Delaware

anybody we play I was just like yeah screw you guys okay so everyone basically I think we can we've landed on

fantastic. What about a player of lore, like one of those urban legend players from New Jersey? Not the Tabs or the Right, this is tough. If you go back, like, go back and look at like Tabremus's

like, even as, I think in high school he scored hundreds of goals. Like, again, obviously he made it, became one of the greatest players in the U.S. national team history. But like those are some of the things. Like, again, just anecdotally for me, like Tab's son, Alex is we were born in the same year.

That dude, he ended up going pro, but he is currently an excellent soccer trainer. He has his own trading facility. He's got more than a million followers on Instagram. So he's awesome, but like playing, training with him a little bit, because he was obviously far better than me. And like just seeing him do things,

it was just like, oh my God, yeah, like that kid must be incredible, right? And like he was. And it just goes to show like how much talent there is everywhere. But that was a kid that anybody in this area, you know, you knew of. just because of everything, because of how good he was and family lineage and all that. It wasn't Tom Bogart?

No. I'm shocked. You're a men's a champion after all. Like, you know, like, come on now. Don't say yourself short. You just hear me yelling at people if you're by the field. And people as soon as people all over the country tell him all the time how impressed they are by his mensie. Like, wow, you guys are so good.

I'm super impressed by it. Don't let them take these one out of your sales. I actually am. Listen, I used to go watch Kailen Kars Men's League games on the Lower East Side. And like, those were intense. Like, it was no joke. It was literally no joke. Like, dudes were getting all banged up.

And I was like, is it worth it? And Kailen's like, I just love to compete. And I was like, okay, man. That was after his seventh concussion, I think. Literally. I was like, can we not? Can we do, you know, do we need to bring back the helmet at the very least? K-O-N is mildly terrified of the stories that fly around

of when I come off the, like, when I'm texting the guys after it came. Oh, that sounds like a whole other podcast, and I'm going to workshop that in here. Let's do it. Okay, last one. Best Youth Club in New Jersey. Is it one that you played for, Tom Bogart?

I played for, I did play for Top Bromless's Academy. That has been under new ownership. That's a really strong one. I mean, look, it is the Red Bulls, the Red Bulls Academy, because that's where we are right now, and that's better. But like there are some more independently run academies, like PDA is the name of one that is always really, really good. And yes, Cedar, and New Jersey Soccer Academy is what it was called when I played,

but now it's Cedar Stars. So those are the big three at the moment. But it's Red Bulls. Like, if you want to go pro, you're going there. Amazing. Well, we do happen to have a New Jersey expert in Tom Bogart on the show today, which was very helpful. But we also sourced this to all of you.

We put out polls on Instagram and on Blue Sky. So if you're from Jersey, if you know a lot about Jersey, weigh in and we will hit on that and put a pin in it at our happy hour on Thursday. But guys, that's a wrap. We did it. This was so much fun. I'm like, I'm just buzzing. I'm buzzing.

This was the best. I can't thank you guys enough for coming on the kickback committee and making my absolute day. It was a true, true pleasure. Did you have fun? Did everyone enjoy this? You guys are, I mean this one. I say you are American soccer heritage. I'm not trying to be funny.

And like, we need these voices and we need this expertise and we need this depth of knowledge. And I just feel, honestly, like, happy to be here. Happy to be here today. So thank you guys. This was great. Ah, it was amazing to have you, Jill. I adore all of you. And I truly think these are some of the, the,

just the best damn soccer brains in the business. I feel lucky to call you colleagues. I feel lucky to call you friends. And that is as nice as I'm going to get. Little, little too happy, shiny right now. But guys, make sure you check out upcoming episodes of soccer wise. Tom, you're going to be on Thursday. Goss is currently in the bad land somewhere, or maybe he's flying back, but he is going to be.

He probably is. But that's coming out on Thursday. I think he's going to be on with Jordan Angeley to chat the women's game tomorrow on soccer wise. This episode of committee is actually going to go out on soccer wise channels as well because y'all weren't able to record earlier this week. So keep an eye out for that. Join us for our happy hour on Thursday for more U.S. men's national team banter and further discussion on the great state of New Jersey. That is at 5.30 p.m. Eastern on our YouTube channel live. Doyle and Jill, do you have things to promote?

I mean, Jill, I know you're doing your full-time podcast and Doyle, your amazing column that I read every single week for all of MLS. That's it. Yeah, that's all promoting. That's all you got to promote. Yeah, that's fine. I just got to promote that Susanna Collins

for all the reasons. You are the best and thank you for having me. Oh my gosh. Stop it. I love you. I love you so much. And this was so much fun. Guys, subscribe to our newsletters on Kickback Soccer

we've got our weekly one we also have our world cup edition that's going to get you set for everything 2026 leading up to the world cup and that is going to do it shouts to the call up felt good didn't it it really did it really did also who am i being so disrespectful the rapids at one point in this show and they're literally only teams to give us custom jersey that's true Colorado you're so great no matter if you're good at rapids up the pins um guys have Have a fantastic week and we'll see you soon. Have a good plan.