SoccerWise - First Touch '26 World Cup Daily Show: Spain Beat Argentina to Win the World Cup | Postgame Reaction

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

Susannah Fuller, David Gass and Matt Doyle react to the World Cup Final, analyzing Spain's championship performance, Argentina's run, Lionel Messi's legacy and the standout performances from the final.

It's in the books for the second time in their history. Spain are World Cup champions after defeating Argentina. It took 108 minutes to do it, but they got it done. But they got it done. And now we get to talk about it, which is so freaking cool. I'm Susanna Fuller alongside David Goss and Matt Doyle for the final time in this World Cup. I can't believe it. It's a bit surreal.

Yeah. But we're here, and this is what we've been building to this whole entire time. And yeah, I'm really excited to break this down with you guys. So, Spain are champions? How are we feeling about it, Doyle? Like, if you had to, if you had to describe this game to somebody who didn't watch the game, how would you describe it? It's kind of like the platonic ideal of a Spain game because they only allowed two shots, not on goal. None of the shots.

Like, they didn't allow a shot. until the 112th minute. They dominated the ball, but when they lost the ball, they were even better than when they had the ball. It was the platonic ideal of Spain.

And that said, you saw what they missed without a healthy Nico Williams. You saw what they missed with limited... Yeah, I was going to say, if Anzo Fernandez doesn't get a red card, I think Spain wins anyway.

Maybe. It's kind of a extra time, It's 50-50. Yeah. That was the like, Spain are great. Spain are impressive, but they weren't dangerous. And Argentina was in this game because Argentina was the best team to face Spain and play the way they played. Right.

Did Argentina make mistakes? Not really. Exactly. And Spain were scared to push the envelope until the red card because Messi and Julian Alvarez are in the other direction. So that was the end of the final was there were two teams that were very confident in what they do. Yeah. Argentina, none of that confidence was in going forward and creating chances. But in terms of defending and being in front of it, they did not make it easy for Spain.

They were totally comfortable with that. Yeah. And they put a lot of it, both Spain and Argentina, on the foot of Laminia Mall. And he looked the way we have talked about this entire tournament. It's like, he's 80% at best. He didn't have the first step. He didn't have the second or third step either. So when he did beat Tileofico, he wasn't able to create separation.

And that made them a little bit easier to defend. And so it didn't really happen until they started taking chances. And that needed them being up a man, which was deserved to be clear. And that needed Nico Williams to be on the field. And Nico, I'm happy for him because he had a really tough past 12 months to come on and to make that difference, to make such an unselfish play. it was a wonderful goal. Which was the case in the Euros 2024 for Nico Williams,

which is, as we talked about in the pregame, Spain are who they are. They've created this identity. They have this DNA. And then in 2014 was different, but 2018 and 2020, it didn't matter. Like they played well and they'd lose.

Yeah. And the difference has been Nico Williams' quality and Laminia Moll's quality. And they can extend the game. they can stretch teams a little bit further, and then when they create chances, they can finish. And so for Nico Williams, 2024, was it coming out party? We thought he'd go to Barcelona after.

Similar to Cepragas in 2010. Like, that's the story. Didn't happen. He struggled with injuries. He hasn't been himself this tournament. Neither has Yemal. And then he gets his moment. He got his moment laid on.

So he assisted on the Ferrant Torres goal with a beautiful header, like right at the touchline. Just, yeah, as you said, really, really happy for him to have this moment. So the way we consumed this game, like, we were all at Legends Bar in NYC. Shout up to them for hosting us. Thank you to Legends. We had great seats.

It was unbelievable. Been a Metro Stars bar for 20 years. Cheers, guys. Cheers to Adam it. No, I surprisingly feel, I definitely had. I feel drunk. I had like three beers. I don't drink beer anymore, you guys.

So this is like a. Neither does Doyle. What a coincidence. It's the two of you at your first day. But I feel surprisingly. coherent, but in the same way that, you know, I want to tell the story of how we consumed this game. I want to tell the story of the match. And so, Doyle, when we did the pregame show, you know, we kind of talked about, like, do we think this is going to come down to an Argentina meeting

to find their way in the final minutes of this? Or is it going to be a stranglehold throughout a slow sort of death by Spain? In terms of what we thought this was going to be, how did this match sort of play out to the narrative that we thought might be taking place. It was a slow death by Spain, right? Yeah. As as tough and as resilient as Argentina are

and David is saying hi to all the people entering the studio. Theo, bring me the trophy. Oh yeah, we got the World Cup trophy. The actual one. The actual one. This was Spain. Theo. Theo. Interred Theo. Delivering.

This is the real trophy. This is the closest. Who's in a Roxanne. All tournament long. This is the closest Costa Rica will ever come to lifting the trophy. It was Spain dictating the terms. Messy had, what, 12 touches in the first half, and he had like seven. The 70th minute was 13 touches or 13 passes completed, 20 total touches.

And he didn't impact the game until the last 10 minutes when he started dropping outside of Spain's formation, which I was surprised actually Spain allowed because I thought they would just get on the ball. But that speaks to how good Argentina are. Like even playing 10 v. 11, when they play with desperation and when they play with like complete focus, God, like, what worthy champions they are. Yeah. This past seven years of Argentinian soccer has been almost indescribable. And it took something like what we saw from Spain to rest that trophy away from them because again that's a real

trophy. We have it. Can you extend this to 12 years? Can you go back to 2014 and say, I mean 2014, 15 and 16 they made a final. Right. They won it in 21, 22, and 24. Right. And they lost

to the champions of the major tournaments they played in 2011 to Uruguay. 2018 to France and obviously 26 to Spain. I think it's something like 10 or 11 consecutive major tournaments, Argentina has either won or lost to the eventual champion. I don't know how to contextualize that other than we've seen the greatest player of all time across multiple generations, right?

Because the Spain of 2011 is different than Spain of 2016 is different from the Spain of 2021 is different from the Spain, it's 2026. Weed this team to the pinnacle again and again and again. Good graphic. I said Spain, I meant Argentina. Yeah. I've had a few beers.

This is a group that has changed a lot, except for Messi. And I think even in this game, maybe if you go back and rewatch it with me, messy. There's a spot 10 minutes before it ends where it's like maybe now's the time to start running, right? Because he walks the way he walks. And yet they create a change. I mean, the free kick, the give and go that ends up in the pullback across the end line in a game you're down 10, 11 is genius. And it's a chance that shouldn't occur. And it's like everything we've all built

towards of like the game has been solved and we're all watching Y Scout and then we'll move to data and then we'll go play the game. It's all been figured out, and Messi somehow creates a chance. And that's where, if they don't get the red card, for all the chances going against them, some of the lack of shots.

Do you think if there's no red card that Argentina win this? I just, the elastic nature of them is, I just think as that game goes along, the pressure on Spain builds, and there's no pressure on Argentina. If you go into the end of regulation

at 0-0-11-11, Scoloni is saying like we're here Congratulations guys Like we're fucking cruising And I just The fact that they just missed out on that And in the end When the red card happens

It's probably best case scenario of like They've already made it to the end of regulation Okay we're gonna defend anyway We defend anyway They give up a goal because Spain are really good And like that's a chance But I think if you're Argentina You probably feel like you have a shot coming out of it

At half time I was like This is a dream scenario for them The fact that they had no other their gear in the second half was worrying that they never could get on the ball. Could Coloni have done anything differently? Could he have made any different decisions that would have affected this game more? Oh, no. You got like a clone of Batista two and bring him on.

I have zero shots on goal or zero shots just shows how out of it they were out. I'm a fan boy. So like, I just feel like Spain is that good. Yeah. I like you were sitting next to me. How many times that I like whack you in the head? when Raji just like received a pass under pressure and but it was never dangerous I don't know if I agree with that really yeah I mean it was never like they're walking the ball into the net I felt

it was always dangerous so you say it wasn't dangerous like did you feel at any point like was there was there a threat like was Spain because as you said the halftime situation going in nil nil was a dream scenario for for argentina and you have to feel like they were like well we're very much in this at any point during regulation did you feel like spain were completely in control of this because i did not i thought the first three chances of the game came from deflected passes or deflected clearances which were all yes spain's on the front foot so any mistake becomes a chance but they were not created by spain and i don't think there was a moment in the first 16th 65 minutes of the game where you could say they pulled them apart.

This is Spain's game plan and Argentina got pulled. So as someone who I think have spent a lot of time over the last four days saying there's gaps in Argentina. You play through the gaps. If you play vertical in the central area, there's spaceistic advantage of. I thought over the first 65 minutes, that wasn't the case and that wasn't there. So while Spain got more dangerous as the game went along, I think Farron Torres. Besides the goal was a clear difference maker. because he's, I said to you after Aratha Ball's chance where he ends up dropping deep,

he picks up the ball, he tries to slip, whoever it is, Marina, whoever it is coming through, I thought he should have shot. It was very clear that there was not like a two-faceted attacking player who was going to put Argentina on their heels in a way, which is like, you don't know where I'm going to go because I might shoot, I might pass. Everyone was looking to pass until Farron Torres came on the field. I agree with that. Like Spain was looking to pass the ball into the back of the net.

it never felt like they were going to do that. At the same time, it never felt like they were in any danger. And to your point about, oh, their dangerous chances came off of turnover as they forced. Like, yeah, they've been the best pressing team in the entire world. Why would they not sit on that? The first 15 minutes, go back and watch this game. Watch Taliafiko's positioning as Argentina try to play out of the back. he's playing cat and mouse with with laminia mall it was brilliant like i was i was just geeking out

over that like the positioning of the left back in the buildout because they were both going back and forth and sometimes taliafika would be up by the midfield line and sometimes he would be back and would be like a straight back four and like they were both problem solving in real time it was awesome i can understand why you know if you're if you're people who are new to soccer i think maybe They liked yesterday's game better. Yeah. There were... Ten goals.

Yeah. Get out of here. Taglia Fico made a decision early on, probably before the game, where he was like, Lumini Mal, if you want to create a chance, I am taking you to the hospital. Like, there was a lot of, like, I'm here. I'm holding everything. I mean, there was this series in the first half where it's like, Taglia Fico was on his knees, just like pushing Laminia Mal's body where he was like,

I'm not going to lose this battle. so you can decide how you want to win this battle. And that's Argentina. And that's where the mistakes don't exist, where England for all their quality are like, oh, well, we can play. We can go and beat you. And Argentina completely set up to say,

oh, you're not going to beat us. We're not going to lose this game. So you're going to have to come and take it from us. With the belief in the end, and the only reason it works is because Messi will create the chance and we'll create the chance and it will come. And Spain are the best team they faced. And hence why they didn't create the chance.

Let's chat a little bit about Lamin Yemal because, you know, I think we've all agreed that it didn't really matter, you know, how he didn't need this, like, a big moment in this World Cup. But Spain have now won the World Cup. Lamin Yomal is very much a part of this team. You know, how is this World Cup going to be remembered in the terms of his narrative, like Laminia Mall's career path. How will we

talk about him in this World Cup? I think it depends. Like if he has one, I mean Spain hosts the next World Cup. Yeah. So that changes the dynamic a little of the expectation in four years as

holders is that Spain will win the World Cup. That's not like oh, this is the way the game works. That's the reality. They will play every game at home. and they are coming off winning two straight tournaments. So maybe that shift things. But if not, he's won a Euros.

He's won a World Cup. He is the best attacking player on his club and on his country. And he's probably going to win five more, ten more club trophies. Right? He's going to win Copa del Reyes. He's going to win La Ligas. He's going to win Champions League. So in the end, when you get to the resume, his resume will have everything it has to have.

It will. He needs to be, he's never going to be in that A tier of greats, which is, to me, Messi, Maradonna and Pele, the three greatest players of all time. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But to be in that. Huge disrespect to El Magico of El Salvador. El Salvador. I love that.

Well done. But to be in that next tier, he needs to have a magical World Cup. Thankfully, he has four more. Yeah. Right? This was not a magical. This is like Ronaldo's 06, where Ronaldo was like good, the team was good, they went far, but Yomal won. Rinaldo did not win the 2006 World Cup.

Yeah. I don't think it's anything like Rinaldo. Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay. You pointed out, I mean you said, yeah. You said Rinaldo and I thought you were going to talk about the other Rinald. Anyway.

The fat one who struggled? I mean, he paid it to three straight finals. Not 06, though. Yeah. Not 06. Anyway. he's amazing. He was not the best player on this team.

Roger was. Roger, it's official, just won the Golden Ball. Oh, he did. Yeah. So now we can award our Golden Ball to Roder. Yes, exactly, which is what we were going to do anyway. Which is what we had planned on doing. Obviously, because we know Ball.

Thank you. Yeah, clearly. How do we feel about the fact that it was Nico Williams and Ferrant Torres creating the moment that ultimately won it for Spain. I think we said in the pregame show, when we talked about the three changes to Argentina's starting lineup, it was like, well, who's the difference makers off the benches and what can they bring?

And we said they can bring energy, but they can't bring change or quality. Yeah. But Spain could. And that's what we saw for Spain was Biana was solid throughout the game, and he brings that. But Marino brings a different quality to the team. I mean, Marino could have had the game winner.

that header but and everything that Marino's a part of is an overload because Marino is dangerous so when he's in the right channel now it's an overload and when he's in the left channel

now it's and everything he does is super dangerous and so to have him on the bench watching for 65 minutes and then decide where to go and get the game Williams is the same Frere and Torres

brings a little bit more dangerous quality and so it was three players off the bench who could all be starters so what it is in particular with Williams and honestly and Marino and obviously Ferrant Torres, the game tilts. The game, like they play

through the lines in a way that Arathabal and Biana, Biana don't, like they do not run into the depth and Williams and Feren Torres do. And that is, it's not very Spanish, right?

We don't think of, when we think of Spanish players, we think of Rotary and Pedri, and Zimendi and like with all these guys who just keep the ball and it's all roundos and sometimes you need

a little bit more incisiveness off the ball than that and you know that was Nico Williams two years ago and we really haven't seen it and then we saw it today on the decisive play from 2016 to 2020 it was Sergio Ramos

right it was like who will skip a pass yeah it was the center thing yeah but that was because everyone was the same robot right you need something different than the machine Did you see Sergio Ramos in that box with all the Spain legends? Yeah.

She's loving it. He was the only one that was like up like. Carlos Puyol retired a little earlier. So he's been to watching the guys for a longer. So he's like, this is how it works. You get a vodka in the 30th minute. It was insane. I'm looking at that box.

I was like, oh my God. Vermute. Yeah. If you had to appoint an unsung hero of this Spain squad for this World Cup. there's a long, long list. I think in our best 11th we put Cuccarea, so he's not one. I think it's Pedro Poro.

Yeah. He's a guy that... He's pretty sung. Most people... Is he? You said on our show like four days ago, he sucks. He is the worst player on that team,

but he is essential because he runs north-south. He also won all of his tackles and did his full job. And so, he was never a soft spot of the team. And then when it was asked of, he was a strong spot. It's the goal, obviously, in the last game, but even more so than that, I think you saw it in

this game. He comes up into the attacking third. He plays a backflick into the, like, into the path to create a chance. So I thought he was the attacking piece for them that was one more than what opponents could deal with. Yeah. You agree. Kind of, ish. I do.

So he's, you just don't, you don't just like plop him down into any team and he'll be that effective. But because Spain have 65% possession every single time and he's so good at reading that, he ends up being a force magnifier. And he ends up using what is their strength to, to tilt the field in a way that nobody really figured out a way to deal with. Just a really good player. Again, the 11th best player on the team. Yeah, I know. But it didn't matter.

Like, if he's your 11th best player, you're probably going to be really, really good. You're all right. And credit as well to Luis Delafonte. Yeah. Like. Our tactician of the tournament, thank you very much. We anointed yesterday before they won the World Cup.

Thank you. He made all the right subs in this one. Obviously bringing... He's done that throughout the tournament, though. Yeah, he has. He has. He has weapons that nobody else has, but like, my God. the stones to take off Roderite and Laporte at the same time.

That's like one of those things. You know, my dad's texting me. He said, should Messi come off when they were down 10? And you know, but yes. No, but you're struggling with that. And so often we see some level of coaches say, these are the guys who should be on and these are guys who should be off. And you have other coaches who can't take guys off the field.

Right. And if you ask on Spain, who can't you take off the field, we would have said, LaMine Hall, Rodry, and La Porn. And so for him to understand and trust the group. Two of those three guys. The metrics were telling that they weren't giving their best,

that they weren't a part of the game, that they were struggling, that it had been six knockout games, and that in the heat and in the speed, they weren't dealing with it. To take them off, that's like I'm putting myself out there moment for a coach. And so to do that is massive.

And for it to pay off, that's all he needed. And I think winning Euros is a huge thing for Delaponte. And like he has the trust, he has the confidence. But it's been said over and over again. He is not an experience first team coach. Scoloni isn't either. They are national team coaches at this point.

His expertise is in coaching Spain. And so to flex those muscles and to do that in that moment was huge. And I think it shows in the Spain group the reason they won the World Cup is because no one felt like they, or the story that it was an entire group that was there to do what they had to do to win the world. Everybody knew what their role was on this team. Ferran Torres gets pulled out of the starting lineup, does insult. Fabian Ruiz, starter loses his job, comes back into the team, scores the opening goal

against Belgium, he becomes the starter. Lamin Amal struggling with injury doesn't do too much throughout the tournament, ends up doing the job he has to do, helps this team get along. And I think that's peddry, right? Pedri is in Doyle's book, the second best player on the planet right now, didn't start the last three games, comes in immediately picking up the pace.

It's amazing because you compare that to like a France, right? Where like Ryan Cherokee is just chirping about why he's not getting minutes. And you see the sort of discord that has been Saka, exactly. And it did not exist within this Spain team at all. And it's a collective that has ultimately come out victorious in this World Cup. Let's try about L. Messey. Shall we? Let's do it.

How do you feel about Lino Messi's performance in this final Doyle? I feel extraordinarily lucky to have watched this man play soccer for the past 22 years. Yes. I don't know what he could have done differently, right? Because he's 39 years old. And the way Argentina played it out, he was staying within Spain's amoeba, essentially, for the entire. Did you just say amoeba? I did.

You just dropped an amoeba on this show. Oh my God. They being the nerds, love an amoeba. Bob Brownlee just came rattling into the studio. You're my hero. He did not start affecting the game until he dropped outside that shape and started getting on the ball.

And when he did, I mean, the only thing Argentina had came through Messi. And it was not, if this is, you know, his last good night, it was not feeble. Yeah. He put them under pressure, even playing 10 v. 11 for 110 to 120 second minute.

Yeah. Like he played his role. In a World Cup final, he played his role. He was the threat. He was the danger. Spain played the way they played because they didn't want to get beat by Messi. Yeah. And there was no moment where it was like, oh, Messi's incapable of that.

Yeah. I think there's questions if Argentina was capable of it as a group. And that's where what did Julian Alvarez. have in this tournament. What does he have overall? McAllister, it was not his best tournament. You talked about it. It hasn't been his best year. Take away some of the fouls and being late on the play. He's not quick out of possession. He struggled to cover ground. This was not his best month. And so in losing that piece in midfield, they tried to like push a little with Nico Gonzalez and DePaul. Those are two guys who Nico Gonzalez as good as

he is. DePaul's not at the top of his game. And so there was like true deficiencies behind Messi where Messi could only connect as much as he could connect. And I think if the pieces around him were a little bit stronger in this final, you see that he's still capable of creating at this level. But final 10 minutes, it was like, oh, Messi's going to create a chance. So the fact that you walk off the field feeling that, yeah, yeah. The fact that you walk off the field feeling that shows he's still at the level. Was this a performance from Argentina? where obviously they lose a World Cup final, which never is going to feel good.

But will they feel good about the performance that they put forward? Good is not the right word. Yeah. But they shouldn't feel bad. They should feel, I think, proud of what they did because Spain is just that good, man. We saw what they did to France.

We saw what they did to Portugal. They choke the life out of both of those teams, and those teams are unreal. And to make, I don't want to say to make Spain suffer, but to suffer the way they did Argentina without actually conceding danger for 108 minutes or whatever it was, 106, is kind of unreal to me.

And it was not a Spanish goal that Spain score. It was a very English goal. It was a hard run from the winger to the backpost in a header back. You see that in the NCAA college cup. You know? Like to replay of Indiana, Penn State on today on the Big Ten Network. You got it.

Yeah. I remember Eric Zavillette setting that one 15 years ago. That was, it was, it was, it was an insanely well-played game where both teams really understood who they are. And I'm sure that they will be crying in Argentina. but I don't think ultimately they have a reason to. Yeah, I thought Argentina were further from Spain than what they showed in this game. So I think coming into it, I kept saying Spain 3-1. Yeah.

I just thought there were gaps in Argentina. I thought there were opportunities to take advantage of them. And Lysandro Martinez goes out in the first half, and the gaps still weren't exposed. So it's a tip of the gap from me in saying I was wrong. Like, this team did not look like the same team that played Egypt for seven. or the same team that played Cape Verde. And that's the part that's a little confusing for me in hard to deal with. But yet I've been saying for the last five days, they're elastic, right?

They figure out where their opponent is and they get there. And maybe that's decreasing down towards their opponent, which is part of the frustration and the drama and all of that. But then they go back up. Can I give you a line of stats? Please. So in 2006 before Messi appeared in the World Cup, Lothar Mateus had the, record for appearances at 25.

Paulo Medina had the record for minutes, 2,200. Multiple players had won the most games. Most goals with Garrett Mueller at 14. Most assists was Diego Maradona at 8, and there was multiple players tied with golden balls. After Messi, most appearances, messy, at 34. Most minutes played, Messi, 3,000.

Most wins, Messi at 23. Mbapé now. Congratulations. Mbapé is first on career goals of 22. And then Messey has 12 assists and two golden balls. Wow. There is now the error of there's before and there's after. Yeah.

And to Messe's credit, which Maradona never did. He did it at the club level, right? Oh, that's not a fair. Don't do a whole thing. No, come on. Leading Nopoli to two titles in the late 80s, Syria, what it was what it was. How many Champions Leagues is?

I mean, I get what you're having. And how many years did Messi do it? For sure. The peak. Longgevity. Was higher and longer for Messi. But like the club, the knock on Maradonna. Here's the thing about first. He never won a Cup of America.

Here's the thing at First Dutch. We're going to do a 1984 Napoli watchback. Let's go. But 1986. But 1986. But Doyle has a consumer. everything that Diego Maradona consumed over the course of that year.

I did that at college. For that experience. He's like, like that's new? But yeah, everything is messy's doing is a thing we've never seen before. And there was nothing again on evidence today that he's not capable of doing it on the highest level. Well, we talked about it on the pregame show,

like whether or not we thought that this was going to be sort of the farewell for Messi and Argentina, especially after having lost a World Cup final. You know, like, is, are we more confident that he will continue to show up for his country? They showed him crying on the field as he, like, applauded the fans. I say the same thing I said going into it. The comparison to Michael Jordan is they're both addicts of the thing they do. If you're little messy, you don't walk off the field today and say, oh, I can't play at this level.

I don't belong here. You test yourself at the Leagues Cup. MLS Cup or bust at this point. That's all that's left for him. He's already won an emmoluska. It's true. Yeah, but it wasn't like cleaning it up. He's got to do it again.

No, this was, I mean, this was a wild game. Yeah. This was, I guess it was similar to 2014 in that it was up until the high stakes extra time. It was a zero zero game that didn't feel like a zero zero. I was entertained. I mean, yeah. The first seven. minutes were wild.

There's chances both ways. I was not bored. Una Simone's coming off his line because Messi's in on goal from midfield. That's a thing we've literally never seen over the last seven years. There was like wild chances both ways.

And so the game was open. It was pretty aggressive. And then as it went along, it started to tighten up and close down. And that's, it normally starts with I don't want to lose a final. This one ended with, I don't want to lose a final. I actually never felt that way. Okay. I think I felt it was more like I want our soccer to win and that was from

Spain, right? And they just imposed it more and more and more as the game went on and Argentina were hanging on. And the thing about Argentina is they're okay hanging on and they have been for so long because they have messy. And that is actually part of why I don't think this is the end. I do think we'll see him two years from now in the Cop America. He, has a special kind of pride about South American soccer. And if he sticks around, Argentina are probably the favorites to win it. One more ride. There's not a South American team that you pick over them right now if Messi comes back.

And I would assume Hamas Rodriguez is not coming to the next couple of America. I mean, like, Esteval and Endric both level up three times than like maybe Brazil. But like, it's such a... I've had that in my diary for 10 years with Brazil. for sure. I get same. So the idea that Brazil goes up a level is pretty low. And so Argentina are the favorites at the Co of America, if Messi returns.

Even if not, you've talked me into Enzo Fernandez, Julien Alvarez, Latorra Martinez. There's a ton of talent that can reconfigure itself if Messi's not there. But if he is there, I think it's still at 41 years old, their best case scenario. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Absolutely. And sometimes I think people overdo it. I think the Messi Rinaldo

I feel like you cannot overdo it with messy. I think the Messerunaldo conversation got overdone over the last 12 years. It became people's entire personality and it became the nature of like I show speed's entire economy. Like there's so much around it. But then when you get to these moments,

there's a reason you talk about him the way you talk about him and to do this at this age just shows where he's at. And I was talking to you guys about the chavi piece. that was written coming into this game where Chavi coached Lamin Yamal

and then played with Messi. So he talked about the two of them and he said Messi's one of the only players he's been around in the world who he doesn't, he never pre-decides what he's going to do in a dribble. He waits for you because he's so quick and he's so clean in possession

that if you go left, he goes right, it doesn't matter to him. That's like Jedi shit. Yeah. You know? And you watch this game with Williams comes on and Laminemal, they're some of the two best one-v-one players on the planet,

they decide what they're going to do and they get you there. They pull you in and then they do what they want to do. And Killingameh is the same, where they suck you in and then they do what they want to do to you. And the fact that Messi's capable of not doing that is the one and he still can do it at the age he does it at is unbelievable. Yeah. Let's transition over to Spain because I want to give them their very deserved flowers

because they won the freaking World Cup. Their second in history, I think we knew coming in that they were going to be a favorite. And Doyle, you were obviously incredibly high on this team, the way they play soccer. Was there a moment? Was there a game for you in this World Cup where you, I don't know, they kind of like solidified themselves as the favorite, as the team to beat? Where did they sort of establish themselves? It was a France game. Yeah.

Because we were all so impressed by France and their ability to, Spain's about controlling the game and France does that, but then they break the game open. They shatter the idea of control. And they never came close to doing that against Spain. And it was, I mean, that is one of the most impressive games I've ever seen a team play. And then they just spun that into the final.

And they did it to, in Argentina team that is very different from France in a lot of ways but very similar in that they're super high quality and they can wait you out. They can suffer

for as long as they need to suffer and then break your control and win the game like that and we were sitting there in the bar talking to all our, I talked to Connor and Connor is like this is what Argentina does they're just going to get beaten for 120 minutes and

and they're going to score right at the end because they believe. And I was like, yeah, probably. I think Argentina's going to win this. And Spain never allowed them to even sniff that. And then when they needed to be bold and when they needed to be, there you go, when they, when they, that was the close fellow that I've been looking for. When they needed to attack into the depth,

they now have the pieces to do that. And I have no idea. I have no idea. idea what you do against this team. And like you look at the group, it's not getting older. And when it does, it feels like there's more talent coming in. And so they won the Euros. They won the Olympics in 2024 in France, over France, which not the biggest deal, but like is a piece of this. Now they win the World Cup. So they hold all three. And they win the World Cup with a group that pretty much everyone's coming back if they want to. And if they don't. I mean, we're talking about Roderie and

Laporte being old, Ruchy's 30. Lapar is 32. They both have at least three or four more years. I know. I feel like Rodry's injuries though have like aged him.

They've already, like, made him see older. Well, he also tucks his shirt in. Shout out. Shout out. Kaelin Carr. That's an extra 18 months. He did untuck it at the end of,

like, I have to tell you, my wife is on social media right now thirsting after Roderie, so that is tough. Congratulations. The Spanish team is very handsome. You think so?

You just made that up. There's no way. No, it's, it's, there was a certain, there were a certain vibe when Ferrin Torres gave out. Like, they're, they're just a, yeah, there's an energy when they're around. Ora, it's aura, okay? Yeah, it's a group that's not going anywhere. And as we said in the pregame show, what's on stake for the two of them? Spain's established that this is the way they play, this is who they are.

And every player coming through for the next 20 years will have to prove why they fit into this. And then Pauku Barcy will be a core of it. The one issue is they need players who sometimes break that mold. And that's what they have in Marino. And that's what they have in Nico Williams, guys who will just run through the lines and make. But you have to do it and fit. That was Koke's thing. He didn't also fit.

But that's the thing, right? That is why you can picture them going eight years without winning anything significant because it's too static. It's too much in front of the opposing back. But why does Biana get into the team? Because he does all the things and then he breaks the shape. Not he breaks the shape and he's not a part of it. I didn't think he really broke the shape. Well, he wasn't great in this game, but he's been a really big part of what they've done over the course of the tournament.

And that's where it's like they rotated what, nine? They played the same nine players in the signing? That's the other thing. Over and over. They have the ball so much. They don't get tired. You know, like they make the other team run 90% of the time. And I think that Scoloni thought that was up his sleeve was like, oh, we're fresher.

I'll rotate three guys. We'll play a little bit different. And I didn't think Argentina, I thought the first half favorite Argentina in that they didn't extend their energy and they were still in the game and it was still zero zero. But when we saw the lineups, I thought Scoloni was trying to like roll a dice. Take a risk, take a chance, go out, get a lead, push. And Spain comes into halftime, and they're just like, they're not even breathing heavy. FIFA cropped Trump out of all the photos.

Oh, really? But he was just conveniently awkwardly moving around the edge. Gianni has no idea. Johnny should not be someone on Fashion Week who moves people around. No. That is not a professional role for him. No, that is facts. Okay, so guys,

2026 World Cup is all wrapped up. Did you enjoy it? I did. What was your favorite part? I was just going to ask you guys the same question. I think, I mean, I've talked a lot about just kind of the, all the different fans descending upon North America

and watching that sort of unified celebration over something. Yeah. I mean, as Bubba Gump ever? sold more for net than they did yes Oh, Fernette. We should get some Fernette guys. We gotta go get some Fernette. That's dangerous.

No, like that aspect of it has been amazing. I think, um, I don't know. Maybe I'm looking at like, do you want to know like match moment? Both. Theme.

All three. Match I think in, and it's going to kind of make me sad because it was the USA Paraguay match because I was, I'm going back because it was, It was just, I was so, I just had a lot of questions about the U.S. heading into the tournament and watching them exceed every expectation that I had in such a dominant fashion and having

fun while doing it. And being here, watching it with all of you guys, it was like, I felt so good. Like, it was like this, like, I was just buzzing all over. I had goosebumps. And I wish that I could bottle that sensation. up and recreate it all the time because it was really, really special. And we all know what happened later. But that moment, like that, that sort of like group stage experience.

The full 90 minutes of that game. To see the U.S. play that way against a really good opponent in the World Cup, I just want more of that in my life. Same. Yeah. Same. And I will say, like, watching a team like, Spain.

And you kind of think about like, oh, man, there's a, there's a golf. There's a golf between where we're at in U.S. soccer. A Spain team that smoked Belgium. Yeah. And that part is sobering and a little bit disheartening. But I have to believe that there is enough to build on. And I just want to be able to recreate more moments like what we had in, in, in,

against Paraguay, honestly, throughout the group stage, because that was really, really special. And I had so much fun, way more fun than I think I thought I was going to have watching. It was kind of grim coming into this tournament, wasn't it? A little bit. Yeah, there was not a ton of hope that it was going to be that good, which is where I think it's been really hard to put into context what happened. Because they lost in the round of 16.

It was the same, as always. It's like, well, no, it's not the same. which is the frustrating part of the whole performance for the U.S., which is I thought they had performed in a way that took the necessity to convince context out of it. Right in the past, it was like, no, Ghana is better than you think. Let me explain why. Oh, you think U.S. is bad at soccer? Sit down.

I'll give you a 37-minute presentation of why they're not. It's been my life for 30-7 minutes? 30 years. Yeah. And I thought, I'm quick. Don't worry. I was going to say it's very succinct. I thought that they had gotten out of that with the way they,

played through four games. So that's where it's frustrating that the way they played in the fifth game led them back inside of it. And I would argue if you ask me, like, pick a moment in the tournament where you were at your best and happiest. It was Columbia, Portugal, to close out the group stage. I went to a Columbia

bar to watch the game, and Columbia put Portugal to the sword. They didn't win, but they won the group. And I think every Columbia fan in the building that I was with were like, we're the best theme in the world. They didn't have questions about that because of the way they played and because of the talent on the field.

And I think they leave the tournament feeling that way still, that they got screwed on penalties and stuff happens. But like they played to the extent. And I don't think U.S. fans can say that. And I don't think the U.S. team can say that. I think Canada's probably the same where it's like that's frustrating that we can't say that they went out on their on their shields. I think Canada absolutely can say them. No, that's what I'm saying. They can say that.

Sorry, my head. Canada's in the Columbia conversation. Yes. Yeah. And I think Mexico is as well. They went out on their shields with no head because they're idiots. But they went out on their shields. It was an encouraging and embarrassing display.

Javier Garay did not. From, yeah, from Mexico. But it was, I don't know, there was just so much in this tournament that was so much damn fun. Yeah. You know, teams like, you know, it got. that are going out and taking it to Argentina and Cote d'Ivoire playing the way they did. And just on down the line. It felt like it, like, ultimately, I think there is a gap between Spain, France, Argentina, England, and the rest.

Those are the four number one. but like we saw at times Argentina and England suffer right and so the fact that we expanded the field and teams didn't lay down and die even in the 7-1 that Curacao suffered for 25 minutes they were the better team

against Germany it was it surprised me in a way that I feel like the game doesn't always surprise me and that that is that is the, to me, that is the best thing about it. So this validated. This tournament validated the advantage of it. So one of my theories coming into the World Cup was the extended like setup was you would get teams.

We have always seen teams at their first World Cup or for the group at their first World Cup struggle to understand the moment. And then by the time they find their feet, they're already eliminated. I think Paraguay is an example where blown away by the experience. opening game, they were not even in it. Then they start to find their feet. And by the fourth game now, because there's this extended game, they have this experience where they're like,

oh, we sort of get it now. We understand the speed of play. The fields are nicer. The ball runs a little bit different. We have to do press conferences the day before. Like all this stuff that's very specific to this moment is something you experience if you go deep in a Champions League, but you don't experience if you don't.

And I thought there would be a lot of, turnaround from that, which we hadn't seen in the past. Paraguay is like the big example of it, but I think you ended up seeing a bunch of other teams where they played the soccer they wanted to play because after that opening game, it was like, okay, we get it. Like, we can just be who we are. We're not overwhelmed. D.R. Congo is a great example. D.O. Congo came out. They played defensive to sustain the game. They get the result against Portugal. And then they're like, okay, we get it. Like, this is what we do. We can play at this level. And Harry Kane being one of the, three best players on the planet is the only reason DR Congo did not move into the round of 16.

And I think there's a really good example of a lot of teams. My hope is that this World Cup sets off a run for a lot of these countries where they see, okay, we're right there. And a lot of the players see that. And they can continue to recruit and keep players engaged and move forward. And then at the next World Cup, it's an example of, okay, we learned from that. Now we take it another step. Yeah.

Yeah. Man, it'll be hopeful. Hopeful. Hopeful. Before we go, favorite part of the halftime show. Sorry, because what we have to talk about it. Ronaldino, come on. Ronaldino.

Are you kidding me? Just like chilling with Madonna. Ronaldino is my favorite player on the planet. Messi could win four more World Cups. Holding hands with Madonna. Ronaldino at his peak is the greatest soccer player in the history of the world. His peak was 26 months at most, maybe 24. It was a different time.

It was a different time. It was a great time. It's a time we should all live in. What were you doing in the mid-aughts? I was running home from high school to watch Ronaldino Samba on John Terry in a Champions League quarterfinal. I love that. Greatest player of all time, dancing, and then I think I said this to Doyle. If you do the numbers, in the last 40 years, Shakira's been to more World Cups than Italy.

Shakira's my MVP. Yeah. Always and forever. lives at the World Cup final. She literally does. Who else is going to be here? What is a World Cup without Shikira? Let's be honest.

I don't want to know. I don't either. I don't either. Oh my God. Guys, I can't believe it's over. This has been so much fun. The best 197 days of my life. 100% agree.

We have so many people to think. We've got a lot of people. Because this was a Herculean lift to put this thing together and to do a daily show every single day of this World Cup that started on like June 10th or 11th. I can't remember which day

but it has been I don't know how many 40 plus shows. It really started with the golden boot draft in Chicago. Yeah, it did which was June 4th. Did you win? Are we, is it official? I think it's a tie. I think we got to go. Are we going? Wait. What are we going to assist or minutes? We got a tele assist. Because it is a tie, isn't it? Yeah.

Wow, Theo, do the math. Do the math. Theo doesn't know why we're yelling his name. Yeah, he's like, what is going on. There's a pretty good chance we won't get this information before this show ends. That's okay. Yeah, we have a huge list of thank yous. It starts with Total Media.

Yes. Sandy, Derek, and Jordan. The show doesn't happen without Derek and Jordan. Big shout out to Sandy, but it doesn't happen without Derek and Jordan. Huge shout out. Jordan came in in a USA tank top for one of the USA games. announced he was the number one soccer fan after never watching a soccer game. I got a text yesterday that he was in a soccer conversation about the golden boot and he started

to drop knowledge from the show and he goes, I held my own throughout the whole conval. Oh my God. No one knows that I don't know soccer. That's the biggest validation moment you can have. We want to make you look good in front of your friends. That's literally what we're here for. And we look good because of Astral. Steve and Evan are absolute legends.

They were at the Paraguay German. game because they deserve to be there, which is, I think, the coolest game to have been at this World Cup. That game was unbelievable. And they did all the graphics for us. They did all the branding. I mean, everyone thinks that we work at NBC because our literal TV package and everything we do looks unbelievable. So a big shout out to them. And of course, to Ben for carrying the load.

And then everyone at kickback. Everyone at kickback. Who is behind us. So Katie and Todd. Katie. Todd. Cuba. Justin Antidelli. Will Antonelli

Yeah Brandon's been clipping us Every show we do Evan's been unbelievable John Parker Our Who?

Leader John's a little sad right now Because he's an Argentina fan I know I know So we're

We're gonna be sad For him Our guys McKelle Mkeley Eric and Jordan And Jordan And Jordan

Who came On this set And argued We're We're We're For weeks At a time

Who are still arguing Yep McKelley and Eric are still mad about things we don't know that there are topics and they're yelling at the screen right now which i respect and jordan gave us like a huge shot in the arm when we needed it and i think is one of the best soccer analysts on the planet and we're lucky to have her around so absolutely amazing

yeah um and our our sponsors football manager 26 soccer dot com and just reminder guys the world cup it's over but uh your game might just be getting started so you can play with the official trium a matchball available now at soccer.com. Don't forget. And you can also buy all of these jerseys if you want to buy a beautiful Spain kit. See, I made the right choice, guys. You did. You did. You're an early investor.

I was an early investor. It's called seed money. Yeah. Exactly. But just from my... Suza's an angel investor, I think, is what Spain should call them, should call her. And a huge thank you to you, too.

Susan was with here for half the time. Doyle, you've been here way more than you should. Yeah. And it's been awesome, so I appreciate it. down. I mean, every day on the train. No one's eating more chomsticks than you. I whispered to Suez halfway through the game. I can't believe this is my job.

You did. Yeah. And I said, I got to talk about soccer with a couple of my best friends in the entire world. You said we should do this for every big tournament. The question is, we should do this for all the little tournaments. Where in Tanzania are we going to land for the Afghan? Hell yeah. Women's World Cup is less than a year away. That's absolutely true.

So we've got that to look forward to. Eric's going to have to tutor us on how to speak Portuguese. Oh, Zaudnavsh. But to Doyle's point, I can't believe we get to do this. And we get to do it in our own decisions. I think that's for us is why we built kickback. The way we built it is all of us have covered this sport for a long time. This was a chance to cover it the way we wanted to.

And I think we get to have the conversations we wanted to have in the space we wanted to have it. So I'm so thankful that this was possible. I'm super sad that it's over. We have an MLS show in about 24 hours that we're going to turn around and roll out there. We've got first touch stuff coming. NWSL, Jill and Jordan have been crushing it. Are you ready to talk about the Sounders?

A Boston legacy game kicked off 15 minutes ago. Don't forget one knocks in USL League one. Boom. Hell yeah. Cheaters. Everyone knows that. But this is something I've always wanted to do and to do it the way we've done it.

I couldn't be more thankful to all of you. And this was the dream scenario. The same. We've talked about this World Cup for eight years building up to this point. And I think the experience that I've had, being able to be here in New York, covering it with two guys that I just absolutely not only love, but respect, you know, and just love your beautiful soccer brains. This has been truly just the experience of a lifetime.

And I'm super thankful. Let's go eat some pizza. Let's go eat some pizza. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. We'll see you in Lisbon. Guys, thank you for tuning in.

Every day, we do this for you. We appreciate you so much. We hope you had a fantastic World Cup journey. And, yeah, stay tuned for more. Cheers, guys. Cheers, everyone. Chase to Darry. And no thank you to Connor.

Come on.