SoccerWise - Giraldez Leaving Washington? Denver's 1st GM, USWNT Preview & NWSL Power Rankings

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

A shocker of a news break to start the day Jonatan Giraldez could be heading to Lyon to take over one of Michelle Kang's other clubs. Jordan and David dig into what this means for Washington and the league. Then they dig into the new out of Denver, USWNT matchup against China & some international break power rankings.6:00 Giraldez Leaving Washington?21:45 Denver NWSL Hire First GM28:50 USWNT Preview40:00 NWSL Power Rankings Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

Hello everybody and welcome to a special Friday edition of Soccer Wise, the perfect week to ride into the weekend, a nice relaxed early morning record between David Goss and Jordan Angeley. Jordan, you had a busy week, three NWSL games, an MLS game, and now you're here to break it all down with me. Yeah, who is she? You know, just doing it all, doing the most. I will say, I love listening to you on games. I always have a great time.

When I do rundown work, I always have a game on in the background, even though I've for the most part, I already watched them all. And I, by coincidence, come into the show right off your segment in the Angel City game where you did forget how to speak the English language for a consistent little while. The word that it started with was perennial I think. And I think I said, wait, let me try that again. Yeah. And then like 30 seconds later you go, well, I can't say anything today. You know, I think part of this job is being an entertainer and you have to be able to

ride your mistakes and be okay with them and just move on and move forward and kind of make fun of yourself. So you know, you can't take yourself too seriously. A lot of the times before I start GOS, I say, you know what? This is just soccer. Let's have some fun. You know, like try to put things in perspective that I'm not going to be perfect and you got to roll with the punches sometimes.

So perennial got me. And so did other words that night. You know, it's hard. My games typically start at 10 p.m. And you've lived a whole life before that. In the day. You've lived a whole life and for you in multiple time zones, you're traveling, then you're calling games back in other time zones.

You're out in the sun, but you're watching games in the freezing cold and the rain and the mountains. It's all over the place. I think that mentality is what we should all strive for. It's just soccer. We'll all survive. We'll all move on. So I'm going to try and live by that.

We have a huge show for you because we were just going to come in. We had some casual stuff to talk about. US Women's National Team plays tomorrow against China. So we were going to chat about that and preview it. I am doing our first ever Saturday evening live call-in show for Soccer Rice. It's going to be fun. So it kicks off at 7 15 p.m. Eastern time. And the reason for that is it's right after the US women's national team game.

So we will be able to chat about it. If you want to call in and talk about any of what you see in that game, please do so. We're going to post the link on our Blue Sky account and Instagram tomorrow. You click the link, it takes you to a place, you put in your email, you get quote unquote a free ticket, and then the ticket when the show goes live sends you a link to join.

And then you just can come on and chat about anything you wanna talk about. We can also talk about any NWSL game or NWSL team. Obviously no NWSL this weekend. I had to do the show this weekend because now we're into like the summer and there was just like too much chaos and I want to do it so that I can figure out how to do it the right way and get one off the ground. So this is going to be the weekend to do it. And so we'll talk about US Women's National

Team today and then I will talk about it again tomorrow. So please call in or get into the YouTube page and you can be in the chat and you can send me questions or comments there as well. So we're going to talk about that. We were going to do some power rankings of just like sort of resetting where things stand right now, not just in the standings, but where teams are playing form, all that type of stuff going into this little international break. And then we got some breaking news. So yesterday, I believe it was Denver announced their first general manager. We'll talk about that.

I don't know if you've heard of the city. It's very beautiful. It's up in the mountains somewhere. And then this morning we woke up to the news. Shout out to Jeff Kassouf, one of the best doing it, breaking the news that Yonatan Heraldes is in conversations to move out of the Washington spirit and take over as head coach of Leon, of course, Michelle Kang, the owner of the Washington Spirit, also owner of Leon, and they just lost their coach.

So this is the big groundbreaking news for us to hit. But before we get there, the biggest news of the day, it's happy birthday, Jordan Angelou. Oh, it was a lot of buildup to get there. What are you gonna, what is the news that I don't know about? Yeah, you guys. Yeah, just thankful that I get to live another this job at NWSL, I said, fine, I'll do it under one condition. There is an international break. Every year there's an international break on my break. It's fine. It is around me and my priorities.

Yeah. So no, it worked out really nicely. I'm heading up to Steamboat. I love being in the mountains, especially at this time of year, so can't wait to be there and celebrate. But thank you so much. I think there's good pizza in Steamboat. I think I ate there. I don't know if that's actually true. Okay. I'll look into that very general statement you just made. From a New Yorker, that means

a lot. Yeah, that means a lot. Yeah, that's true. Well, maybe I remember people telling me it would be good. I don't actually remember how it tastes, but I can check that when I get there. Very, very excited for you. We are going to be off next week, by the way, for our regular NWSL show because I'll be at TST. Because you're doing the mic next week. And you're off a little bit, but we'll see. But I'm going to try and grab some interviews with people while I'm there if it comes up. So maybe we'll have something to drop. If not, tune into TSD on their YouTube page and you can listen to me talk a little bit about

soccer by myself, which will be very, very fun. I'm watching some of that. Yeah, there you go. It's something for you to do on your vacation. See if you can say perennial. I am not going to try it now because it's in my head and it's going to freak me out and I'm going to see if I can get there eventually. Let's dig into that news though on Yonatan Haraldes. As I said, Jeff Kassouf, the one breaking the story, not a ton in it right now. Like not a lot of details very early on. The line from Jeff's article is that Yonatan Haraldes is in advanced discussions to take

over as head coach of OL Leones. Multiple sources have confirmed to ESPN. Now if anyone wasn't following, this isn't the most important part of this, but interesting, Michelle Kang, owner of the women's side of Lyon, decoupled the team from the men's side over the last week or so. So now has full ownership, full management of that team and of that group. Of course, London City, her other club has just been promoted to the W league, right? All the way to the top. So has now three first division teams across, you could argue three of the four or five

best leagues in the world. And this is a massive story on so many levels. I, being on the East Coast, was up a little bit earlier than you and started reacting to it with people. And I'm just throwing out 97 different views on this because it's one of those things that was not something we expected. And therefore it comes out of nowhere. And you're reeling in trying to figure out what does this mean? Big picture for the club, for Yonatan Heraldes, and I think for NWSL. Yeah. Very interesting, right? And you said that that maybe is the part about Michelle Kang owning it and decoupling it.

It was not the most interesting, but I think it's the most important part of this whole story. Because we, or at least I did when she started acquiring all these clubs, started to think of this is going to be incredible because they're going to be able to have these free transfer free trades between clubs and players maybe not getting the appearances that they want at Leoness. Is that how we're saying it? Leoness? This is not my expertise.

French is awesome for us, so can't wait. Nothing could be further from my confidence. Like players that maybe aren't getting the minutes they want, could they come to the Spirit? Could some Spirit players go and play for half a year in France or in London? I think that that is where my mind went right away and how cool that would be. But I didn't think about this, the competition level when it comes to head coaches because Jonathan Giralde in the last few years, because of his success at Barca has been one of those top echelon head coaches in the world, right?

Everybody talks about him. I think it's maybe slightly skewed because of Barca and they get whatever players they want because it's Barca and they have all the best players in the world. But when you're talking about going, for him personally, potentially going to one of the most historic clubs in the world when it comes to the women's side, you can't blame him for trying to go coach that team, right? I think that if that was me in this position, that's something that I would aspire to. But it is kind of disappointing at the same time because here you are in NWSL trying to

bring this idea of world football to this league and advance the level of the league and you just leave a year into what you started. Yeah. It'd been barely a year, right? It would have been a year right around this time. Right, because he signed and then came later. Yeah. It's interesting that you say it. I actually never really thought about it in the context of he just wants to go coach this team because leaving Barsa to come, he could have gone kind of anywhere. And like, I don't know the gap between, I mean, you would argue Barsa is a better setup than Lyon. So I don't know. I guess my first reaction was this was Michelle Kang's

group saying, how do we get Lyon back to a Champions League final for a club that just lost in the semi-final? But they're that close. It's not like they're that close. I don't disagree with you, but what can get you over the top? They have said, as many people have said, that he's the best coach in the world. You have the best coach in the world inside your system. And I think that's where this is really murky right now, which is we have no comps.

There is no situation where a multi-club ownership group has multiple clubs that are almost at the same level. It's always very obvious what the steps down are. And so you would never really have a scenario like this. Normally it would be, okay, this coach has done well here. It's time for them to challenge themselves at a higher level. We have a team at a higher level. We want to keep them in our system.

We bring them there. You could say when healthy Washington spirit could challenge Leon and you could say NWSL could challenge the French league. And so that's where this is harder for me to understand of like, is this the overall club model saying this is what's best for us? Is this a you want to tell her all this saying I don't want to live in the US and them saying, OK, well, we have other teams. Like, rather than lose you, we'd rather bring you there.

I'm speculating on all of this. But I think- Do you want- I want to ask you honestly, do you think a healthy Washington spirit could challenge Lianess? Well, that's why I said healthy specifically. I don't think even healthy they could. You don't think they could challenge or you think they don't win more than six out of ten?

They don't win six out of ten. Interesting. That team is stacked. Yeah, I don't disagree. That team is stacked and I don't think that, it's not that I don't think Washington Spirit is a good team. I just think like heaps, Vandandedank, Renard centrally. I know a couple of players left, so I might be talking about players who have left.

Yeah. Diani. Yeah. It just is, and maybe that would be different, and maybe that's why they want to bring in a coach who attracts players to come play for him. Maybe that's a big idea too, right? Because that has already happened with the spirit. But I don't know. I don't know if they would. Interesting. I would say it went healthy. So now we're talking all the center back options. We're talking, are we talking about Andy Sullivan being available? Yeah, of course.

Yeah. So we're talking about- When her baby's in the crowd cheering her on. Yeah, obviously. Yeah. And Ule Saar healthy and Cory Bethune healthy and Trinity Rodman healthy. You are definitely saying there's an international starter at every position with this Washington group. For the spirit.

Yeah. Right? I don't know. I just don't... Maybe that is my perception of this Leoness club. Yeah. Maybe that is one of the reasons why I think Jonathan Haraldes is like, yeah, I want to coach this club. Now I've coached Barca and I led Spirit to a final and now I'm coaching one of the most well-known clubs.

This club, I knew about this club when I was younger and Allie Wagner went and played for them. 100%. club when I was younger and Ali Wagner went and played for them. Like it is a club that I personally known about in the women's game for decades, which is not something you say about the women's game very often. So I think that is just an interesting aspect of it is like he wants to be the best head coach in the world. Could he create that here in NWSL? I think so.

Could he create that here in NWSL? I think so. I think he could really add to his resume with a spirit team who wins shields, who wins cups, who potentially plays in a club world cup that will happen a couple years from now. I think that's really the only time we can start to see how do these leagues compare. All we have as reference right now is what we see and what we hear from people who come from those leagues. So it's an interesting topic, right? It is fascinating. And it's why I finished that rant at the start with, I think it's also a fascinating moment for the league. It's a fascinating moment for the league because

the Washington Spirit are set up to be very good for a lot of years and That shifting in any way Even if it's parallel and not a total drop, but like change is a big deal The other big deal would be if anyone in this conversation whether it's ownership or the coach said I want to build the best team in the world and I can't do that under the constrictions of what nwsl is No one has said anything. So this is David Goss speculating and making stuff up. But there is no reason that a Michelle Kang owned team in a top league in a major international city

like Washington, DC, couldn't be as competitive. And if Yonatan Haraldas is saying, I want to coach the best team and I got to go there to do it. Now you're talking about the restrictions on the structure of the league to build a team like that. And that's a conversation that has to be had if NWSL wants to go where it says it wants to go.

Yeah. And it would make things a lot more interesting here, right? Because how would it, how would you really see the people who are invested in making this league be better versus teams that aren't willing to put in that investment and then you start to see I think that's why all over the world and other places we see this giant discrepancy in the table, right? And I think John Rollins in the chat says it's easier to win with Barca Leone consistently. Yeah, this is a bigger guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So all of this I think is really interesting. The clear and again, we have no details. Everyone obviously saying, okay, well, Adrian Gonzalez is the next coach. He was the interim before you know, it's not her all this took over. They were extremely successful. He, we assume

has been on the top of the list for a lot of coaching openings since then. If he wanted them, like I think he's kind of the first name that comes up when X Team Anywhere is looking for a head coach is this is someone who has as close to a positive resume as you can have without having a current job and having left for some reason that was negative because he didn't even end up leaving. So it seems pretty clear. Now I do think there's the scenario in which it is like, Yolansan Araldis doesn't want to be in NWSL or the US, whatever that is.

I think keeping his game model and his soccer ideas inside your club group is really positive. And we have seen on the men's side from Manchester City like Pep Guardiola sets a style. It's taught throughout their group to other coaches and other scouts that don't even work there or you can bring people on site, right? The seasons are different. So if you are, let's say a head coach or assistant coach in Washington, you can go and study at Lyon and be there for a while and all that type of stuff. So I think there's still positives in all of that. But it is going to lead to some really awkward questions of just.

And I think now you go off the field for fans to say, well, where do we stand? Like, this is something that is really hard with soccer in the US, which is people are used to watching the best. The leagues in the United States are the best at what they do. A lot of that's because no one else has these leagues for these sports. So it's fine. It's hard, I think, to convince like people in major American cities, like, no, it's okay, your thing's really good. It's just we have this other thing that's better. You know what it kind of reminds me of is like, in the United States, you can have multiple teams across different leagues,

right? And I just think I'm from Denver. So I think of Cronkite, right? And there is a lot of talk over the years about, you know, who, what do they care about? The Aves over the Nuggets. Yeah, the Aves, the Rapids, Arsenal, Rams. Like what do you really care about if you are, are you prioritizing each one of these clubs? you really care about if you are you prioritizing each one of these clubs, which is even more

interesting of a conversation when you say this is niche, now I'm only in women's soccer, and I have three clubs in three different top leagues. And has said interested in a fourth. And how do you prioritize that? And how do you get the best out of each one of those teams? And what does that look like for players? I'm very interested to see how this all works out. And I think that fans have a right to be like, well, are we number two in the totem pole?

We made it to the final last year, right? We have invested so much in becoming an elite NWSL club, but are we ever going to be comparable to what I was just saying? Like, Leoness, this club that has been known for so long, are they always going to be number one? And then London's probably like, well, we want to be number two. We have a little bit of a different history with Seattle having been, you know, O.L. Reign and all that type of stuff, which I think hurt a little bit, the like ability to promote the team and market the

team and understand that inside the market. This is not the same because you don't have this like weird other name. But I say all this in the context of like, yeah, if you live in Birmingham, Alabama, you watch a minor league baseball team team like you're sort of used to it There's a concept there people in Washington DC are not like that So you're going to have to at some point figure out a way to message to the fans Like this is still a priority and this is our top priority and we want to push this or it's just gonna feel Like it isn't and then you're gonna have have to do similar with the players and the staff.

We know Esme Morgan said she came here to play for Yonatan. Now I think she's happy. Yeah, I think they're happy. It's competitive. Like I'm not saying those players are out the door tomorrow, but did you lose that ability to recruit that next group of players? And if you have people who then come to play for the next coach, is there a back conversation of like, well, but you don't know how long they'll be there? Because

you don't know if things are going to get moved around. There's ways that this could end positive and there's ways that it could be a bit of a negative in what you're trying to build. Can I say on the Bernal thing real quick? I when I spoke to Jonathan earlier this year, he said he wanted her at Barcelona. Interesting. And now how she's playing in NWSL wherever you go, I think you would want to bring a Rebecca Bernal with you. By the way, it would look very good in a matchup against Lyon. Just saying.

She would. Just saying, that's a pretty good set up back there. I like your push for this. I want to see it happen because, man, maybe we will, right? Now, last year we saw Friendlies against Arsenal and- Oh man, if Michelle buys a fourth team and just does a Michelle Cup, that'll be wild. Can Cup. That's a great name.

With a K, Cup with a K. Yeah, that's a great name. We've got branding, we've got marketing, the whole thing set up and ready to go. It's, I think the big thing to me this morning is just, this was a club with a clear pathway. And like I would say, in the convo we were about to have, in the power rankings, like,

I've been really impressed the last few weeks as they've gotten healthier, that they are not far off from what they wanna be. They're playing the soccer they want, and as they get healthier, they're getting the results with it. And a lot of what they've done feels long-term. Like, they keep buying young players internationally who they think have a future with them. They

have a core that is entering its prime. They have developed players. Obviously the draft from last year is a lot of players who can be around the team. Nothing about last year felt like it was when now it felt like it was the start of something. And maybe it still is but there is at least now a question mark in the middle of this because you're losing one of the main architects of this going forward. So that is going to be a big part of this conversation. Let's move into our next piece of news, which is that Denver's NWSL team. We don't have an official name there. Do you, you're good? We should just- No comment. Okay. They have officially hired their first employee on the sporting and competition side, and

that is general manager and longtime veteran from NWSL and from USL as well. From North Carolina, Kurt Johnson, finished as president of North Carolina Courage and North Carolina FC and was GM as well. And now we'll take over sporting direction for a club that has no players and no coach. And we'll look to build something for next year. Jordan, you're obviously more closely associated to this than maybe some of us, but there's a big moment

for the team to start to set a soccer direction. It's a huge moment. And I wiped some sweat from my brow because I was getting a little nervous about, uh, when we were going to make this hire, but it is a really important hire when you're talking about setting the foundation and the framework for how your team is going to build and play. And really the culture, I think, gossip is a big thing too. And so you bring in someone like Kurt who, one, is just everybody I spoke with about

him had raved about him, how good of a human being he is and how he treated players at North Carolina. And they just said he would do anything for anybody. And I think that was a really good starting point for me. But then when you bring in his history in the league, his history in soccer, it spans MLS, USL as you mentioned, NWSL. But his time in NWSL specifically recently, the style of play that I think is associated with North Carolina is a very attractive style of play.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the timeline is pretty quick here, Gus. For me to have somebody who is knowledgeable about this league, about the women's game, about the ins and outs of daily life in NWSL, in particular, because of all those things that you just were talking about, I think this is an excellent hire and I couldn't be more excited for what Kurt is going to do and how this team is going to start to unfold and be built and it's go time. Yeah, it's one of those things I think of all the things you touched on and we've not spoken about this. So this is again, David Goss throwing of all the things you touched on, and we've not spoken about this. So this is again, David Goss throwing stuff out the wall.

But I do think having that NWSL experience at that position opens the door to whatever coach you want. Cause I think if you look at to me, you own a side of all success, I don't think it's fully possible unless you have someone else around that understands the intricacies of the league and the player pool here and the options

and how to go get college players and all those things that I think maybe Bay didn't fully have and Bay went and got some of the best players in the world, but the little gaps to fill in to make a cohesive 13 to 16 person roster that has a style that all fits in all of that. I think some of that was missing because maybe there wasn't the full NWSL knowledge in the room. And so I think you look at this and say, okay, this is someone who now understands the options and how to go out and appeal to American and Canadian players and get those players. And then if you choose to, you could go full international with a coach and say, okay, someone who maybe brings that name recognition or style, or you could go,

I don't think you're in a box then. I think if you go with someone who has no experience around the league, now you kind of start to make it harder to go get a coach who also doesn't have that experience and try and win so quickly in the league. So I think it opens up those doors and makes a ton of sense. And as you said, the style with North Carolina, that's, if you're playing at altitude, you should be making people run. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's, it's simple as that.

Right? I think you make like the point you made about it is easier to come into this league and be a good coach than it is to be a good GM because of the restrictions with the salary cap and the nuances to how that you can build teams in this league. So that for me, number one, I was really happy with the whole entire process and how Rob Cohen went about it, but that it ended up with Kurt Johnson and his reputation is great. And yeah, I just, you know, free agency gosses

starts in a month. Really beginning of July. Wow. Anyone whose contracts up at this year they're into their pre contract. Wow. Isn't that wild? So yeah, that's why I was sweating. I'm like, okay, guys, let's get this sign in happening. It is coming up fast. It is going to be exciting to watch. We've got more than one team coming into the league as well. So with Boston, you kind of have a like competing now for the same sort of pool and the same situation. Obviously no draft I think helps having no expansion draft, having no draft. It just makes you available to do anything you want. But it also means you got to go out and do everything yourself because there's no guarantee of a top two pick.

Right. We should mention because I don't think we talked about this, Boston did name a head coach. In the last 10 minutes? No, no, no. Last week. Where am I? I know. I forgot that we... Oh we reportedly set to hire. Got it. So maybe it's not fully official.

Philly Pa Patow from Benfica. Yes. Great. I'm glad we were ready on that one. I know. And I'm glad you said something about Boston because it cleared, it sparked that memory. But it is what you just talked about. There's two foreigners right there. You have a foreign GM and you have a foreign coach. It's interesting to see how that will work out for Boston.

They also announced that they will be playing at Gillette Stadium, at least for the opening season, which I think most people expected just because of the issues with the construction that they've been trying to do and the delays and all of that. But that makes it official. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. I've said this a couple of times. I think opening a building is a high point tent pole moment for a team. And to have more than one tent pole moment is not a bad thing. Your hope would be you sell out game one in Gillette because people are excited to finally have this. And if you can

gain some momentum there, that's an experience. Then you can have a second big experience where You sell out game one in Gillette because people are excited to finally have this. Yeah. And if you can gain some momentum there, that's an experience. Then you can have a second big experience where you're plastered all over local radio, local sports, like sports talk, local news, and people are excited to come out and see this other thing, which is new, which will be the facility in the building as long as it gets done. You should be a club owner. That's good.

Good. I should be. I actually what I'm saying more often is if people are giving me hundreds of millions of dollars, I could do it. The issue is they always ask you for the money up front. And I think that's bizarre. Like don't you want my ideas? It's rude.

I know it's really rude. It seems wild to me. I also have been to Gillette Stadium many a times. It's not my favorite trip in the world. So good luck to everyone going out there and enjoying that experience. Let's dig into our last two topics. Let's start with the US women's national team facing off against China in Minnesota at Allianz Field, I think is what it's called, on Saturday, 5 p.m. Eastern time is the kickoff time. We know no Gisele Thompson will be available for this camp, taken out with

injuries. Otherwise, we've gone through the roster as it was announced. And now we prepare for two games. So a game on Saturday and a game on Tuesday. My guess from everything we've seen is we'll see heavy rotation across the two games, an opportunity for Emma Hayes to see a lot of new players. We have four or five that could make their debut. See a lot of players in different pairings, in different settings, in different challenges. We have seen her on the road at NWSL games over the last few weeks, watching players, learning about what these players look like. I'm sure talking to coaches and staff about how they interact, what they do, what they're like. And I think we've seen from Emma a clear view of she learns a lot from players just

watching them train, hence the futures camps and the U-23s and all that that she's brought in. There's a few, I think, question marks in this camp that I'm going to be watching for. It's maybe not like the easiest camp to come out of and say like we're going to have clear answers because of some injuries and opponents. But the first one is the pairing with Naomi Garrowman. I think to me, anything that's happening in a triple espresso convo and whatever else, the future of the national team is that spine. Goalkeeper is a question mark and probably not one that will be clearly

answered in the near future. Center back should be a strength and it should be something that can alleviate a lot of the problems or any problems that occur in any of these other positions. Gurma is the best in the world. She hasn't been healthy since Tiana Davidson went down. She hasn't really played a ton since the Olympics with this group. And so this is a chance to see a few candidates who have vied for the spot of Naomi Gurma's partner finally actually partner Naomi Germa. I know. And the interesting thing in Germa's absence is we've seen centerbacks play on the left back side or the left centerback side. And I think the bigger of the two questions, like that is a big question, who's going to pair with Germa?

But it's where is Germa going to play for Emma Hayes? And we've seen her play as a right centerback, we've seen her play as a left centerback. I think with this roster and with the absence of Tierna Davidson, the left-sided center back, I think you have to play Germa as a left-sided center back. And it actually suits up well for those other players. This is just me. I don't think Emily Sonnet should play this tournament

or these games. You know what you're going to get from Emily Sonnet. She's consistent. She can play either center back position, but I think you need to see if Emily Sam's or Tera McKeown is one of the next players to partner with Germa. So I think you play Germa at the left side and you play those two on their strong side, on the right, and you say, all right, who's going to compete better? It's difficult because it's not against the same opponent.

Typically, we see these camps, two games, same opponent. You're getting a little bit of an idea of who can rise to the occasion against the same style of play. I think in my brain, I want this to be Tara McKeown. I want it to be McKeown and Germa because of what McKeown can add in dying minutes with her attack. I mean, we've seen her two assists in the last couple of games. She is a forward at heart, but has really taken on the center back real well.

But my brain is telling me it's Emily Sam's because she is a technically proficient defender. She can also dribble out of the center back position like McKeown can, but has some more experience in that spot. So Gasserami, I just on paper, I'm liking Gurma-Sam's combination. Will that be reality and will that play out in the games? I don't know but that's my thoughts on like if I'm Emma Hayes and I'm truly trying to find like what's the future of this team look like. I think I'm going with Sonnet's probably not playing unless she goes in late in a game. And you give those three players in different combinations a run out. How can you make this happen?

The Gurma part of it is really interesting because I think there's no fear she won't perform at both spots. But I guess the question is what are you solving for? Is the first thing you solve for is the best player in their best spot? Or is the first thing you solve for, how do we make the collection better? Because Sam's and Mickey on both play on the right week in a week out. So they're going to be uncomfortable out of position at a level they don't have a ton of experience with at left back.

But do you move the best player in the world at their spot around? Or I think with Germa, there's a really good chance that doesn't really affect her. Like, yeah, she played all San Diego as a left center back next to Ivy Dahl Kemper. Right. And she the things she does at an elite level, one v one defending coverage over the top, managing the spacing of a back line. That stuff doesn't really change. It's really just the passing, which I think we talked about coming out of the last camp. Mickey even really struggled with on the left side because she's right-footed dominant

and didn't feel confident to break lines with her left foot into midfield. And that closed off a lot of options that then, I think it was Japan in that game, felt like they didn't have to close down on and defend. And it took away the options that you actually wanted. So you're probably right that that's what you're going to do. And I think it's a real toss-up. I really think it comes down to who performs on the day. I think Mikiun probably has a higher

ceiling because of the goal scoring stuff you mentioned and because it still feels like she's getting better because she's already in position later. And yet Emily Sam's probably been the best center back in NWSL for the last year on average. That's why I feel like it's a head and a heart thing. And I really, really love both of these players. And I think this is a spot that, Goss, we talked about. There is a big group of players coming up from the youth ranks that are now getting minutes in NWSL. You know, how, how soon are we seeing Trinity Armstrong in there?

I think pretty soon. So if you don't establish that, what'd you say? Jaden Perry, which then if you're saying, do we need a left center back? Yeah. So Jordan Bogg. I just feel like it is, it's not now or never, but a really good opportunity for both of these players to say. I'm your girl.

I want to play in this spot and I think I and I'm not just going to tell you that I'm going to show you that it will be interesting because of the game states. My expectation would be the US will have a chunk of the ball to play higher up the field. Orlando's had less success with that this year, where like you go look at that Seattle game, McEwen creates the goal, high defending, wins it back, immediately breaks lines into midfield, like understands that moment. I, this is one of the things I've said a

couple times. I think Washington is moving in a direction that Emma wants to move in with her team. And so there seems to be a decent setup of like, okay, if Hal Hirschfeld can do that there, that's a player that I'm gonna bring in. I don't know that Orlando has taken the same steps possession wise, but then at the same time, Emily Sampson has won a championship and put together the longest undefeated streak,

the longest shutout streak, and all the other records that she was able to do. I think this is one of the ones where I don't know what the camp would have looked like. I think Alana Cook's not far away though from an option and again, someone who naturally plays on the left. And so just really unfortunate the timing of her injury with the way she's played and what she can do.

One of the other things I wanted to just touch on is I think it's gonna be fascinating to watch how the central midfield pairings are put together because you do have two club pairings that are available. And so I think in abstract you would say Hutton and Hutton and Coffee are probably your top two. Yeah. Well, and then maybe or maybe it's Johannes and and Coffee. So maybe this isn't even a conversation with Heaps in front of them or Johannes in front of them, whatever it is. But you do have Claire Hutton and Lola Bonta in this group and you do have

Olivia Moultrie and Sam Coffey, players who play week in and week out together. I don't know if they're, it's fascinating because normally you'd say like, oh, you want to get, you want to make it as easy as possible for players to settle in, but Hutton's the national team veteran, but Lola Vonta is the veteran in this one. And Moultrie has call-ups as well. This isn't her first time, but I will be curious to see how Emma sort of handles that. Who would you want to see against what opponent? I guess you could play Moultrie as the 10, right? And play Koffi. I have no idea. Me neither. I guess I would be surprised. I think I would I would like coffee. Johannes Moultrie as a trio and Hutton Labonta heaps as a trio.

Because Labonta gets into the attack and therefore heaps can sort of drop in and out. Well both. I think they both can play in the 10. I think they both can play in the 8. It becomes a bit of a Di Bonardo-Labonta relationship. But you, like you just said, you have those pairings that they're comfortable with playing centrally. You have a veteran in both of those in heaps and coffee, and then you

have creative players around them or ball-winning players. I think I'll be interested. I think this is a really interesting conversation with the players brought in and how do you make them comfortable, but also how do you set them up for success. But I want to see all of them play. It's hard when you look at that group to be like, oh, well, I'm just not going to start Lily Yohannes centrally, right? Because she's been excellent.

I don't know. Good luck, Emma. You also have an interesting situation because it is an NWSL heavy roster of Heaps and Yohannes are the two that ended a long season or going into an off season. What do their minutes look like? Do you want to get them a lot of minutes because they're about to not play for a while? Do you want to play them very few? And then there's some questions in the attack up top. It's not ideal with Gisele Thompson coming out. Michelle Cooper hasn't really played. That's one of the pieces in there. And you don't have a lot of natural center forwards, I would argue,

in this group. So probably for Kat and Lynn Biendolo are the two, but Biendolo hasn't really played as like a one in between two wide players that much over the last year. So I think there's question marks in all of that. I'm excited to see Ali Centenor. The game has just been hard for her and it's tough and she's just so talented and you see it with the national team where I think she fits in really, really cleanly. So that's another one that I'm excited to watch. I will say and I don't know if this is any part of the conversation the second game's in St. Louis. LeBonte and Hutton playing Kansas City. They're not that far apart. I wonder if you're gonna say we're gonna give you each one game.

Is that the game where you give them the opportunity because it's a little close to home and they're probably gonna have huge fan sections and all that type of stuff. I don't know if that goes into what a coach considers in a competitive setting with these two games, but it's going to be fun. It's going to be a lot to watch. Second game on Tuesday night. Um, as I said, we won't have a normal show on Wednesday next week, but we're going to try and bring you some content and some coverage as well. Let's go into our final convo, which is some NWSL power rankings. This is not the huge international break that's coming this summer. We are not at like some specific stage of the season to say like, okay, this is where things stand. But I think

coming off a long weekend of games, this was a way for us to sort of talk about where we see a lot of these teams and we could probably have turned it into tiers or whatever else. But this was the segment style that I chose and I drove myself down this road and I feel like I can't get out of it. So now this is what I'm stuck into. So I am going to give my power rankings as we go and then you can react off them and then we could talk about these teams a little bit. So I have them obviously as a list, but in that list, I do have them. Yeah, it is a good start. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I do have them broken into more groups. So number one is not first place in the league. I have San Diego number one. I have Kansas City number two. And to me, there's a gap after that. I'm with you. And the gap after that is I'm really

confused about which team is in three, four, 5, 6, 7, I would say. I don't know. That's where it gets confusing to me. I have San Diego as number one, too. We are coming off of a shellacking. They whooped North Carolina. A good North Carolina, a team on good form in North Carolina.

A team in good form. And I also think a team who that could have very easily not been five to two, right? It was so many goals. Thank you guys so much for all the goals on a late night Sunday game. But their style of play, they have one of the best goalkeepers in the league defensively. I feel like they're very cohesive. Pro Moroni is looking like the best left back in this league and what she can do going forward. I think I settled into the tempo and the tenacity of this league a little bit more defensively.

That's just their back. I could just talk about every line on the field for them. They are really good. I love their style. I could just talk about every line on this field for them. They are really good. I love their style. It can be directed moments. It can be ball heavy in moments. I really love them. I love the San Diego team.

And I talked about them a bit, I think, on the recap show of like, Barcenis starting coming off the bench, Escanio, a lot of players who can change the game, which is showing a bit of depth that I was worried about because you're never going to be fully healthy. Now with Kansas City, they're four points up on San Diego right now. I don't know if it's just the injuries or if it's performance. It's hard to say fully performance because they've been good and they went and beat Orlando. And I think there's just a little bit of a question mark and I think especially losing Alana Cook, but then

Okay, what's happening and the attacking side of things Michelle Cooper's the national team? Is she fully healthy? Time was swinging now. There's clearly these questions that come up but then goes out and scores and plays well So I think that's sort of what holds it back a little bit. But to me they are the two clear in this Tier the next year I did was three teams. Okay. And I did Portland, Washington and Orlando. Well, that's how I, those are the next three teams I have. So you have Portland, Washington, Orlando. Yeah. I have Orlando, Portland, Washington. I think yours is probably better than mine. I think I'm over indexing and excited about Portland. Maybe because I didn't expect them as much where you're saying I'm getting moreing and excited about Portland. Maybe because I didn't expect

them as much where you're saying I'm getting more than I thought. Yeah, we have them like 13th in the league when we started this season. Right. And Orlando we had first. So I think there's something shading that. Now I will say as teams play Orlando in different ways and Orlando struggles to get wins, then it starts to be like, okay, now people have adjusted, can they adjust? And I think there are still question marks. I still ask the questions about sort of that third dominant attacker that can make life easier.

Utah was a good matchup. Unfortunately, Utah's not gonna come very close on this list, and so it's an understandable and a reasonable matchup. I don't know that that one specifically proves a ton to me, but they're clearly in this class. Washington, I think maybe an hour and a half ago, I may have had them third on this because of the way they've played

since Corey Bethune has come back and now Casey Krueger, and it feels like Hal Hirschfeldt, and they're gonna continue to get healthier. And like the game against Seattle, part of that's game states, right? Like Seattle likes to sit in, they like to defend. But Washington just looks so thoroughly comfortable and dominant in possession that that's who they are at their best.

And it feels like they're starting to reach that. But Portland, right now it feels like they are the aggressors in games. They're taking performances. They're pushing other teams. They're playing on the front foot, home and away, which is really impressive for a young team. And so when you talk about like a power rankings thing of like who's going up, who's going down, it feels like Portland's playing their way right now towards the top. Yeah. And I would say it feels like Washington has been like up and down in these spots, right?

And maybe that's why Portland does hop. I think Orlando for me is in that third spot because of just history. And I feel like Seb is going to figure it out. And maybe I just trust that, right? But Portland is on the up. I think Washington is like, moving up, but it feels to me a little less like convincing than what Portland has right now. Yeah. So my next tier is where it starts to get pretty jumbled for me. Okay. I have Louisville, Angel City, and North Carolina. So I have North

Carolina jumping up from 10th in the standings to in my, they are 8th. I have Louisville jumping up from 8th to 6th. Wow. And I have, because of this, Seattle dropping down a little bit. For Louisville, it seems like a crazy thing to say because they lost head to head to Seattle. The weather changed the game. I mean, they should have gotten a result out of that game against Seattle head to head minimum. I think I'm seeing a lot of what I expected from this group, the midfield control, the chances they create.

They don't have a ton of finishers, but like they have in all, with against all the teams in this tier, they have either outplayed them or been toe to toe with them in the last five games and I trust a lot of that to continue this season. Interesting that just I have, I have four teams I would would say, in this grouping. North Carolina, I have a sixth. Oh, so you jump them all the way up. Yeah. And then I have Angel City.

Uh huh. Then I have Gotham and then I have racing. Yeah. And ninth. Oh, poor racing. I just realized it's ninth again. It's an identity at some point. It is.

I agree. I think they found their identity, right? This is going to be a team that is most dominant without the ball and off the ball is what's going to define who racing are. I, I just don't know how like replicable what they're, what they produce, especially at Angel City. Like, are they going to be able to do that every single game? I don't trust that as much, I guess.

Whereas I feel like Gotham is slightly above them because once those players in the attack click, I feel like, but I mean, we, we talk about that all the time for Gotham, right? I think out of all these teams, Angel City, I like the upside of being Alyssa Thompson is one of the best, if not the best winger in the NWSL right now. And then North Carolina, I just, I believe in what they're doing. And again, they're coming off the heels of a really difficult loss, but you add one piece in this summer transfer window.

And I feel like North Carolina could be a team that not only dominates you in possession. I think they now added a couple of times where they score goals quickly. But are they a team that you trust to add a piece? It's a great question. And that's where I think for me, I see them as like, I think they're playing the soccer they should play. I think they're close to where they should be,

but I don't see them as a group that will take a step. I would I would be less surprised if they were like, no, internally, we have a lot of young players we think can continue to get better. We can get more cohesive. And right. You could even say from ball all the way through to Jackson and Shaw, like there's a lot of young players that can get better. And that's kind of been who they are. Although they did go out and make some moves. Yeah.

Maybe they don't mean you need a piece with this new formation, right? Because earlier you would say, okay, you need a winger piece to threaten in behind. But when you're playing with this setup that's already a box midfield and a false nine in Monaca, you're utilizing your wing backs in a different way and trying to... So maybe they don't need that piece that they've always needed. I just think a consistent goal scorer, but there's not a lot of show wingas and well, there is another showing us. There's not a lot of show wingas and bandas in the world. Yeah. There are the probably other Riley Tierney's that you could go out and find. It feels like

there are players who could fit, if they were the right fit could be the right difference maker and maybe it's not someone who's the biggest name or profile. Angel City is an interesting one just because they've got a new coach taking over. So we don't know what that looks like. But it feels like a lot of the stuff is repeatable. A lot of Kennedy in central midfield, Kennedy Fuller. Like a lot of these players have played so well every game that it feels hard to think that it will all drop off. And you hope that at some point they're able to manage it.

So then it sounds like you had more teams in this class. I had this jump to Seattle, Gotham, and then Bay. Those were the three teams where I had the belief that they can be good. And so far frustration with either style or performance, but like with flashes of better stuff. Yeah. Seattle is a style setup and I think that's, they've locked themselves into like, oh yeah,

we've only lost my one goal. It's like, well, because you tried to kill the game. So everyone only lost one goal in this situation. Gotham, you talk about the attackers, you could talk about Roosevelt's health, all those things. I don't know how you're going to guarantee any of it when it just hasn't happened for such a long time. And I think they kind of fits in that category as well. I would, the only difference I have, I have Seattle, Bay, Utah. I would put Utah in that because they are getting more healthy. I think they've looked different with that Spanish midfield of Tejadas or Noza.

They are getting Kaylee Real back, Paige Monahan is coming back soon. I do think with those key pieces, this team is going to look a lot different. Are they different right now? Could they be in this bottom three of Utah, Houston, Chicago right now probably? But I think knowing what's on the horizon for them, that's why I set them in with Seattle

Bay Utah because I don't think that there's much difference between those three teams right now. There's a lot less confidence for me that there is even if the players come back healthy that there's like, yeah, well, that's me in Utah, right? No for sure. But like, I just love Utah. And I get that I just, it feels like some of the game plans, no matter who's healthy or not, have either not been properly taken up by the players or not properly set up.

And I mean, it's very simple to say this weekend, like, the whole league has adjusted the way they play Orlando because of Barbara Banda and Utah didn't. Like this is the reigning, what, Golden Boot, MVP, whatever. I guess she won all of that. Neither one of those. But she was challenging the whole time. I would say the player that changed the league last year.

And so this is what it looked like at the beginning of last year when no one knew what to do. And then everyone adjusted. And that doesn't mean you stop, Barbara Banda. You just have ideas of like, how can we slow them? I would argue even with the goals they scored in Washington, it was similar of like they kind of played directly into Washington's strengths. They continued to funnel the ball directly into like Rose Quasi on the edge of the box. And so I think there was a lot of stuff over the last few weeks that I just,

I worry that right now the ideas don't make sense and it might all fall. This is a trust thing for you. Yeah, and it might, exactly. And it might all fall to maybe the players and then you get the right talent out there. And if they can dominate the game in central midfield and have the options, which is we continue,

we control the pace all the time of the game, that probably alleviates a lot of these issues because you're not giving up transition moments, unexpected moments, but I have to see it to believe it. As you said, I don't trust it. That's where I had Utah and Houston in this next tier and then Chicago at the bottom, sort of on their own. Yeah, that's fair. Maybe I have Houston in their own, like what's going on? We had such high expectations. And again, it is difficult to come in and set an example right away of like the style

of play that you want to have. We don't see that translate always right away, let alone do we see it translate in Houston, right? This has been one of the hardest places for coaches to come in and make the most out of what they have. So maybe Houston is in their own category and poor Chicago and Alyssa Nair could be hurt, comes out of the game. It just goes from bad to worse. That's all I have to say about that.

And that's where we finish. We are excited to get back into the NWSL swing of things. And we'll have all of your coverage as we go forward. Reminder, the live show on Saturday night. If you want to talk about any of these teams, if you want to talk about the US women's national team or anything else going on in the soccer world, I will be on live. Kudos for the people who call in and say, long time listener, first time caller. I will. You know, that's your favorite.

I'll fall off my chair if that happens. And my chair is very uncomfortable and I'm like, oh, I'm going to have to sit in this chair this entire time. I should probably start to invest in some chair technology. You know? Okay. Well, there you go, chair people. Yeah, chair people, reach out to me.

And if you want me to run a professional soccer team for you in return, you could give me a chair. And that's the trade off and that's the potential that exists in the world. want me to run a professional soccer team for you, in return, you could give me a chair. And that's the trade off and that's the potential that exists in the world. Once again, thank you to all of you for listening. Thank you for all of you for being here, but mainly happy birthday to Jordan Angelic. Early, which I'm always earlier late,

so early is better than nothing. Have a great time off, have a great vacation, and we'll talk to you all again very, very soon.