SoccerWise - Ice Cream Shop Extravaganza + ConcaChampions Brackets

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

It is officially Tom season with MLS Cup in the rearview mirror. So Tom walks us through all the biggest news and what to watch for. And David gives his thoughts and grades plus big free agent landing spots and ConcaChampions bracket.

What is up, everybody, welcome back to soccer wise, a big day for a big show. We are into Tommy Scoops season, and we are ready to rock and roll here. Tom, I had like nine analogies. wanted to use. I was going to use hot stove in the write-up. I was going to use silly season. And then I was like, we pull him out of the pen. He's warming up. He's ready to go. I'm just so excited for you. I'm ready for you to cook. I appreciate that. That's kind. It does feel nonstop before this and after this. And then that's good. So it's definitely more now. But more pressure, more and more excitement.

And yeah, fully fully fully into the offseason for all 30 teams. I mean, the way it was explained to me in your post game press conference after the conference championship was you thrive on pressure right that's why you're excited to go to the rug the rugs rugs are us bowl in uh in wichita kansas pop pops our bowl you see that that notre dame after taking the ball and going home and said i we don't want to play in a bowl game if we don't get to the playoffs they're not doing a bit where they're they're going bowling like oh my god no one cares get over yourself yeah yeah there's so many things you could have said to me know what I've been like yeah okay cool and that is not one of them that's the most noted anything

you could possibly do so boring um okay joe montana well now that we're through that portion of the show we have a lot to talk about and it's just move after move after move some reports some official um and some are openings and conversations that teams are having and we're going to dig through all of it we'll talk about some of the top free agents as well and then we've got a bracket conca champion's baby it was an awkward draw which means conca calf is back i watched it off and on as it was going and uh we are excited to see what it looks like next year we can't have this conversation now but it will be fascinating if the calendar flip actually happens i'm only saying if i'm not saying when it's funny yeah and we'll see if i'm right or wrong about that because that's the big

excuse right if that thing goes away what our mLS team's going to say anymore about oh oh as the excuse as to why ms seems like they got to start winning right yeah yeah yeah i mean we have mLS has 10 teams in the tournament something like that give a take last year it's 10 right uh maybe because because of leagues leagues cup dominance yeah for sure um which may have changed this time but i can count if you want that's okay it's an interesting point for me to bring up we can keep it moving no i'm already counting i've got seven eight nine 10 you multitasking I got 10. I had it right.

We came all the way back around. They do. There is no route to a semi-final that doesn't go through a potential League MX team if League MX teams went out in their opportunities, which hasn't been the case every year. I feel like there's been, you know, last year you had Vancouver went through League MX teams, but you had them eventually face off against Miami. So I feel like over the last few years there's been sort of one quadrant that's been a little bit more MLS beats up on MLS itself, but a little bit more friendly.

and I think all of us are waiting to see how Forge takes on Tigress this time because Bobby Smyrani on us always has a plan up his sleeve and it's all you ever want to talk about. Always. We've already got comments in the chat, Justin Hack to Orlando, speak it into existence. Am I crazy? We are here for you, by the way. We enjoy doing this show live. We don't always get an opportunity to.

So if you can pop in live, we will answer questions. We are going to do a special mailbag episode as well next week. So when we do that, we're going to pull everything out of the Discord. I promise you we're actually going to do that in the mailbag section of the Discord. So thank you to all of you who are paid subscribers, have access to that, part of our community. We love chatting with all of you as much as possible. And if you're not, you can go sign up and you can become a part of it and send us stuff. That way, you can also send us stuff other ways as well.

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Okay, let's start with you, Tom. Let's start with some of the biggest topics of the day. We've got like this mainly split up by teams because there's so much going on for a lot of these teams yeah um overall the trade market it was slow heading into southwest cup in the playoffs typically there is moves that are agreed during the playoffs that just don't get announced there and even that that time it's difficult to find them out because teams usually try to wait until you know the games and stuff that wasn't the case this year it has been much slower but i will say this week it is really starting to percolate things are really starting to move there's a lot of

offers there's a lot of like serious negotiations there are a few moves that have been announced there are a few moves that i've reported that are also done but we're going to start to see that now and rather than there being things that are big big ones that are done right now these those conversations are starting those conversations are ongoing and with free agency as well as teams are going after like a really strong crop of free agents that's led by like christian espinoza justin hack uh dane st clair like that's the goalkeeper the year and that's that's that That's San Jose Earthquakes, all-time leading assist in their primes. There's a lot, a lot of options.

And now I think we're going to see things start to move. So let's start with Vancouver. The Vancouver White Caps, magical season, they win the Canadian Championship. They get to the Commonwealth's Cup. They get to the Conn Cup championship at its purest form. We're going to break you up for parts. The salary cap monster comes for everybody. I will say sources, particularly around the club, insist,

we don't need to do anything. And that is technically true, except for the fact that when you are a team that overperforms vastly, almost to a person, there's a lot of guys calling for new contracts. So what I've been told is that there are firm offers, like official or verbal offers for seven of their players right now. Two of the names that I'm hearing the most about,

particularly within the league, is Jada Nelson and Matthias Labordo. I'll start with Nelson. He's somebody at the Whitecaps like, but he's not a starter at the moment and particularly less pathway to minutes when Ryan Gould is fit next season. Jaden Nelson wants to make the World Cup for Canada.

He's not going to do that if he's on the bench for the White Gap. So Vancouver are very open to the right move for him because while they would love to keep him, they don't want to stand in his way at that chance at any playing time. So Jaden Nelson is one name to watch. Another is Matthias Laborta. Vancouver obviously love him too.

He's a key starter, constant starter, this season. He can play numerous different positions across the back line, which was really helpful for a team that dealt with a lot of injuries there's a lot of teams that like him as well that's somebody who could generate a decent amount of allocation money

that would help fund new contracts for other players but they don't want to lose him but everybody has a price and everything needs to be figured out two more Sebastian Burlter and Ali Ahmed both of those guys

are out of contract in one year there are negotiations for potential new deals with both of those players the white caps insist they want to keep again all of these guys like but particularly a couple of these dudes um but with one year left on your contract teams are going to call i know that teams are calling about both of these guys we'll see what exactly happens

again there's no agreement in in contracts for either one yet and as long as there's no agreement there's going to be calls and offers you are tearing my heart out and you're putting it on the ground and you're stomping on it tom you're going to pull ali odd men and sebastian burrhalter out of this team uh that is absolutely brutal i will say so on all of this jaden nelson's the obvious one he is as i've said over and over i go through depth charts who do i think could be a starter that isn't a starter and i'm if i'm a team i'm calling and seeing what it is jaden nelson was a starter for half this year i thought he was fantastic sabi's game elevated and he took it over um and i thought nelson should have played more minutes

in mLS cup i thought he could have across the playoffs that one makes sense right you said he wants to start for Canada. Not only that, I think for most of the MLS seems he's a starter. He is clearly not one one healthy right now when everyone's healthy for the Vancouver white cap. So he's the obvious one to come out. LaBorde is interesting because you could argue LeBord is not a starter if everyone's healthy across the back line. If Sam Otikube is healthy, if Vesselinovich is healthy, if Blackman's there and Eddie Arompo is there, you could argue he's not a starter. On the flip side, he plays all four of the spots. And so the value in him is he can then play if anyone's missing where other guys take johnson's alike for like change he's not going to

play a different position ocampo can't move around and la bordeaux ended up being massive for them in the playoff because he played centerback and he played left back off and on when they needed to but it's over a million dollars for a guy who again if we're fully healthy is not a lot of a pendant starter and that's the question where if you're telling me okay you have to fund the rest of this that would be the one that i'd say okay that's a luxury i cannot afford right now that's why i structured the names as i did and and breaking them at like nelson and and laborta for slightly different reasons my only my only little bit of pushback there that's again unimportant but i want to read to you sam at kugba's uh year minutes

total to mLS 4008 752 2002 2002 you cannot count on him yeah and i hope that they that he's healthy i hope everybody is right injuries suck but to suggest that you're planning around him he simply But you spent $960,000 on him. Sure. And Toronto spent $15 million on Lorenzo and Sine. Oh, my God. Can't count on that guy either. Yes.

Those two clubs are not the same. And two vastly different people. I want to be very clear. So, yeah, Vancouver and the next team we're going to get to, but we have a little bit more of Vancouver. There are two teams that when I talk to people around the league, it's like these are the two teams. like one the next one is open for business is the the line I keep getting and Vancouver it's just

like all like teams are are calling again they know the contract situation they they know the teams against the Midwest Cup it's difficult to keep everybody so these are the two teams that I'm hearing the most about in not just one or two players but a bunch of calls and one of the things for Vancouver is they overperformed they had a better year than expected a lot of guys hit they now need to solidify and say okay what's our core who are the guys under contract for the next five years that it's built around and then who are the guys that we have to move on and bring assets in to do that in saying all of that you mentioned burr halter and ali admed who both have one year left on their contract but sebastian burhalter has a

oh excuse me yeah burrhalter has a player option next or a team option next year um 27 no 26 sorry yeah that's already picked up that's why i'm confused right now so yeah both of those players up 12 months left in the contract so and then blackman has one more option year left and a bunch of these other guys, Ryan Gould, unjust Kubas, their deals are up in 27 as well. Starting with Tristan Blackman. You win Defender of the Year. You don't need to be an agent to think that you're going to ask for a new contract, right?

Like, there's so many overperforming players that, like, that's going to be a thing. I'm just assuming. Like, I don't know that for a fact, but, like, he won Defender the Year. And there's a lot of guys like that. I'm sorry, continue. No, so they are in a spot now where they have to figure out that planning for a lot of these guys. And I think part of it is if you don't think you can get them under contract, the most value you're going to get for them is right now because they have a longer time on their deal that the next team has time to figure it out.

And then also because they're coming off the seasons, they're coming off of. But it would be heartbreaking to see it happen. I could see literally any team go for a Nelson or a Laborta specifically. I would also see any team right now go for Ali Admet or Sebastian Borhalter. I would hope on the Ahmed side of things like your Canadian, Vancouver. gave you the shot you're there if you're not playing for them i'd hope it's to go to europe and take a risk and not sort of stay in mLS and try the same thing with someone else but i also you never know um so i won't say anything there uh on the vancouver more money here on the vancouver side of things uh two notes

one they're having an announcement alongside the city that's coming i think later today so we don't know what that is yet i'm sure it has something do with the stadium it probably is going to be a bc place deal just at least for the temporary if they're lucky it's a new stadium deal um my guess is it's probably a lot of nothing in the end it's like let's all come together and say a thing that we already said but i don't work in government so what the hell do i know well there there has been like local reporting that that there was um i believe a horse track that just shut down and like that's that's possibly land that could be in your heart broken to know that there's one less horse racing track in the world that could be the announcement and

And that would be much more than you did nothing very good. It would be. I'm kind of at the point now where it's like those announcements turns out become, you know, Denver and WSL. They announced their stadium and now they're having a conversation about where the money's going to come from. So announcements don't always mean anything is my point. And I'm excited to go to the Rev's new stadium under Mayor Josh Kraft when we get there over the next 13 years or whatever it is. Last note, though, Fannie Sartini, baby. The man loves Canada.

he has accepted the role as the GM and head coach of the Halifax CPL team which is not connected to the NSL team out there this is everything I need so we're doing a trip next year we're going to a Halifax game I mean forget the World Cup we're spending all our money to get to Halifax to go to a game the most I've actually learned about Halifax

to name drop was actually from Landon Donovan who had done a road trip up there and ended up in Halifax but didn't get to see a game so he says it's a great town that's delightful yeah he says i'll take that's a great town so huge recommendation there the other club you want to talk about open for business talk to us about walmart are us the new york red bulls the new york red bulls they're open for business because they're tweaking the game model they're going to have a new head coach come in looks like michael bradley they're going to be playing a 433 or a 4231 they're going to play with wingers

it's something that they haven't done they've had like inside sometimes they'll try the four too. That's not really wingers. So to make the incoming moves come is they have to have departures and they want to overturn the roster as best as they can to create more room for a new head coach. And again, Julian de Guzman, his first offseason as head of sport. First one, Peter Stroud, that deal is done. Peter Stroud is going to Minnesota United per sources. Deals worth $475,000 in allocation money. I'll stop there before going to another thing. What do you think about that, cause? I was unprepared because I was in a coughing fit. so you caught me off guard um this is uh i actually talked to doyle about this a little while

ago these are moves that make a ton of sense these like youth national team u.s former youth national team guys who yeah maybe the ceiling isn't full national team but it's good i think peter shot's already a good mLS player i agree i think a lot of these moves for red bulls are weird to me this is coming as a current met fan where it's like there are problems and the things you're moving out don't seem to be the problem unless you've decided that every Everything is broken, and unless you change everything, nothing can get better. Is Peter Schaer going to be a best 11 player? Probably not.

If he's in a three-man conversation for two spots in my midfield, I think I'm a good MLS team. And he fits very well with Minnesota, which is what I like about this. He's a very combative. He works hard. He's a dog. He can help in transition. But like when they're sitting deep, because they don't want, they don't play with possession that much.

They play more direct. his skill set fits that very well. Beyond Peter Stroud, there are some other names for the Red Bulls that I keep hearing on trade market. Daniel Edelman is one and Sean Neos is the other. I think those two are also very good players. Edelman was the USU20 captain. He's been a starter for the Red Bulls for several years now.

I was surprised to hear his name so much because I figured that he'd have a place moving forward with this team in a different system. but they do have a lot of central midfielders and if the offers are coming and that are strong, but like Edelman is somebody that I think at this point I'm expecting to move. Sean Neos is a guy that I've heard a lot about. It wouldn't surprise me in any way. I don't know if I would say definitely like I feel more confident that Edelman will be traded

than Neillis, but that doesn't mean that, you know, both won't happen. Both are really tough. They're both products of a Red Bull system and you, I find it hard to extrapolate out what they look like outside of that. So if you're a Philly or you're Cincinnati, okay, go grab them that kind of will fit like for like with what you're doing. If you're not, you really have to squint and look at some of the numbers and watch the tape and decide if you think they fit. I think Edelman will succeed more outside of the Red Bull system than Sean Nealis will. Like I think Nealus is elite for what the system is set up as. He's a ball winner. He's an athletic freak. He's physical. He plays on the

front foot going forward if you're asking to play through him i think you're going to struggle a little bit uh i didn't you know my skim around some depth charts and stuff i think that's one maybe it makes sense for dallas in like just upgrade the position it doesn't even matter what the skill set is like you need pro you need starting level players at centerback and if you bring him in on the deals he's on and how much it probably costs he'd probably still go out and sign someone else at centerback um but Outside of that, it just feels hard to see how he'd fit into a lot of teams. Maybe Charlotte in a weird, like, Malanda sort of replacement with Andrew Privet having a chance to earn the spot. Those are the two that popped in my head.

I think that, like, you and I think up different bars for, I guess, fit and what is super acceptable. Like, I think he would improve a lot of teams, or at least a lot of teams could do much worse. Like, I don't know, just scrolling through the names. like we also like Portland Philly um like those are teams that I think he would fit into I said Philly so you can't take that one for yeah okay well I had Portland Portland's another Minnesota just traded for Brian Ferry yeah Portland's another one where they're so bad at the position that it would fit as well like he's an upgrade on um Zuparich because we're an upgrade on Zuparich and RSL might be one where they're in that sort of territory but you're not playing

him over Justin Glad is he that high I mean even Philip Quinton sure I I don't know that that one excites me less unless it's their correct team that's all with Edelman I don't understand what the hell red bulls are doing isn't the whole point that they develop youth players he's your guy like and what the hard part about all this like you have them on homegrown deal so they're not hitting the cap whatever you get him on you don't have to pay a transfer fee you don't have to bring him in like are you really going to bring someone else in who's going to give you that big of a ceiling above what he's capable of that seems bizarre to me. Well, they did a tan deal on Bergen. Ronald Dankor is somebody who I think had a really good year last year.

He's another young player. Audrey Mehdi, he's not going to be ready for 2,000 minutes next year, but he's coming at some point. And, like, I believe that they're going to be in the market for eights still. Because, like, I spoke to Julian D. Guzman for like a interview about offseason plans. He mentioned number eights and wingers more than anything else throughout the conversation. So it's clear that, like, that's where they're going to spend their resources. If you've already got Bergen that just came in, you already have Doncour. Like, I agree with you in general, but, like, that would be their thought process. Okay. I wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of these guys end up on a St. Louis, by the way. No, that's another thing.

That makes sense. So, St. Louis, because we've got a question in the chat, just a little bonus one here. They are. This is why you come to a live show. They're not going to, they're doing groundwork, and, like, they'll be ready to move on players. but I don't see them spending any assets on players before that they finalize the head coach because they don't want to sign a player that they think is universally good and then the coach just goes, I don't really like them.

So, like, they want the coach to be a part of that. So that's kind of why that they've been a little slow on the player front. And one more about the Red Bulls, Kate Cowell, loan from Chivas, that deal is just about done. It's going to happen from what I understand. And we'll see. I think that's a good roll of the dice by the Red Bulls. Let me throw this out there. So someone in the chat, who's Brazilians asking about Namar, we probably won't really.

I haven't seen those 75 comments. Yeah, we probably won't really talk about it, but you're welcome. Someone else in the chat, though, was like, oh, Daniel Ellman's not that good. So Daniel Ellman's under contract for 465K for the next three seasons, the last of which is a team option. Minnesota just gave up that amount for Peter Stroud and then have to pay his contract. On that deal, Daniel Edelman is a good player. Like, you have to double that to get an MLS starter because you ask. me when one of the rumors came up you're like how much do you think this person costs and it's like

it 450 to 500 is yeah this person could potentially start for you that's the cost right now and then you have to pay their salary so like that is a great asset to have on your roster and the guys you name great very few of them if any of them are a full-time MLS starter today and if you're going to go out and get someone that means you're spending ex on transfer fee and then X on contract and then they take time to get comfortable it seems weird to me to move off that but I like the K-Kowel move I think that's a good move so I'm stoked about that one for the Red Bulls

I would agree and again they need to get wingers in wingers in and while they want to play with the ball more there's still going to be Red Bull DNA there and a guy with his physical attributes and talent you're going to get rolls of the dice

he's going to get more and more chances he won't player of the month one month in League of Nakees like he wasn't a failure at Chivas and Chivas is not an easy place to go to yeah I like this one by the way, Reves for Daniel

Aitleman. That's a good shot. I like that. I do like that. I do like that. Speaking of the trade market and midfielders, congratulations to Matt Doyle for skeeting this into existence. I'm told no fewer than 10 teams than MLS have called for Real Salt Lake midfielder, Emeka, Nelly.

When Emeka and Ellie did not start their playoff game, I'm fairly certain within 10 minutes of the team news coming out, a handful of teams called and said, hey, what's going on? Like, oh, is he available? And this offseason has continued. There has been conversations for a new contract with RSO that hasn't gone very far. He signed a new deal in 2024. He was part of the same draft class that Max Arson was, and I say that because both of them were rewarded by their clubs.

And it was good stuff by both Rial Salt Lake and Columbus to give both of those guys new deals earlier than they had to. And they didn't make it combative. Then a McKinnelli after that contract went to January camp, gets two caps with the national team, continues to be viewed as a, as a. really good midfielder in this league and arfson has done more because he's been in the national team more he's got he exploded under wilfrid nancy arfson got another new contract so like that is like the negotiating point for mechonella's like okay well like i know that we just kind of did a new contract a year and a half ago or whenever it was well i've already outplayed that and if you guys aren't going to give it we've got 10 teams lining up right here we also like are not shopping him

they do not want to trade them but they're going to teams are going to keep on yeah yeah this is again who's a starter that didn't start but four years on 400k a year there's no chance if you're rsl you're giving that up for easy like you have to come over the top with a deal to make it worth their time to move off a guy who's that valuable has also played multiple positions for you so he's flexible he's versatile he's high level um he's domestic so you're not using an international spot on him like this is the type of contract that's gold in major league soccer and so to give it up, you're going to have to be wooed more than just, yeah, he doesn't

start, so we'll take a shot and we'll give you him. Like, we're talking, I think we're talking 800K in allocation money, if not more. There's more like 1.5 to 2 million cash. You're talking cash for on a mechanelli? Let's go. Yeah, and then you could fit a new contract

and then that just becomes a tam deal between the acquisition costs. And, like, I think that that's something that is fair for everybody, if that's but, and again, that's more speculation than anything else. I don't think I'm far off, but, like, I want to be clear. That's, that's not like hearing from R.SL,

this is the answer. Ors do not have an answer. No, you're just setting it based off the market that you've seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. All right. That got, that got me hyped. And I would love to see McKinnelly play a lot next year. So it would be cool if he was on team. Is there anybody off the top of your head that you'd like to see?

Columbus comes in mind for me. That's a good one. I mean, I like this rev shout now of saying like they need to strengthen in central midfield. Yeah, wow. he wouldn't think he i think he'd do really well in vancouver like if if they transfer kubov you think that's the the that's the series that will occur i'm saying hypothetically if it happened

and like there is plenty of interest in kubas i believe uh atletico um parnayanaanthi yeah yeah i have their jacket on the back of my chair actually do you know yeah i traded it with someone at a GA cup one They were like, hey, I'd love one of those MLS shirts. I'm like, one of the 37 I have here. And they're like, I'll trade you. And I was like, ah, I didn't know this was a thing people did. And it's great. That's fantastic.

So if, like, again, if Kubas is to leave, if I'm Vancouver, that, first of all, then I'm giving Burles her new contract. And then I'm calling about a mechanic. What about SKC? Paring him with Jake Davis behind Manu Garcia. Yeah. Yeah, that would be good. And, like, that's a team that they've got a couple foundational pieces. And they're looking for more.

But when you start your roster with Dejan Yovalich, Manu Garcia, Daniel Shallowy, Jake Davis, and a couple others, it's a good starting point. And they have tons of flexibility. And, like, they've needed a DM since they decided Ilya Sanchez wasn't good enough. And then Ilya Sanchez was Best 11-ish for LFC for a couple years. The other interesting one would be Charlotte if they decide they need more help in that position. you probably end up in a situation

where you're like playing again three of these guys with like Bronico and Westwood and him and no one's a true attacking mid but that's if Pepi-all's healthy if he's not Kerwin Vargas you don't know when Zaha's going to leave if Zaha's going to stay so

that would be more of like a talent play but I could see it work out yeah again he and he can fit so many different styles that like so many teams should be going and Austin would be another one where it feels like I'm trying to speak

you can't name a team that I'd say no yeah that's fair except teams that like LAFC's not going to do it because they've got five of these dudes but hypothetically if LASC found a way to do it I'd be like sweet yeah that makes sense

and they would dude move around a couple loans do those short term signing that they do every August make sure he goes to a weird European country first bring him back on loan then have him leave for four months

and then bring him back on a permanent deal yeah i think i think we need to do in the future uh lafc best 11 of guys that they signed as free agents in august that have made you know a combined christian teo it comes in mind big name signings lafc's made that you didn't know played for lafc that's the not even doesn't even need to be big name it's just like again jelson and and um the the romanian guy who came and went in a blur this year um on to the next one houston houston dynamo are very very busy they're finalizing and able to sign a Brazilian winger Guillermo from Santos. It's about a 2 million fee.

He's 30 years old. He had 14 goals and 10 assists and 3,400 minutes across all competitions last year, this season, sorry, including the state cup, the state championship. Sorry, I don't want to get the name wrong. That includes, like, some semi-pro teams. So he did, particularly at the end of the season for Santos when they were able to avoid relegation, he had five assists in his last four games. he came up big at the end of the season.

So it wasn't just that he was patting his stats in that competition, but the 14 goals 10 assists is all-inclusive. I'm told that they are also in advance talks on a pair of TAM signings. The plan this winter was to add at least four, I think, new starters. And obviously, Guillermo is one. And then these two new TAM signings would be two, three, and we'll see where else they go. So I love this because they were bad this year,

and they spent no money, and they were late on their work, and they got caught by the entire season. Are there four openings in their starting lineup? So, Guillermo comes in at the wing. They need at least one centerback. I'm assuming that Savacenko is going to be the starter, but I know that they're in the market for a centerback. So that's two.

Brooklyn Raines is likely to leave. So he's got one within MLS. But where does Jack McGlynn go if Gierreme's a starter? So that's a great question. I'm glad you asked. Guillermo is not coming to bench Lawrence and Ali. Right. He's, you know, there may be games in which they both don't start.

They're not going to start 34 games each. But the idea their best 11 includes both of those players. So that means Jack McGlynn is either playing an eight and a half or a 10 or Artur is a six. And then, you know, Linger can play maybe as an eight or somebody else. And then there's more along the backline to add from there. Right. So the way I see it is like, Now with this move done, there's probably two openings in the starting lineup if they're not bringing a goalkeeper in, which it doesn't sound like they are. It sounds like I'm told that they're not.

Right. So now it's maybe left back and maybe one of the centerbacks. But if you're bringing in a winger and you're still going to start Jack McGlynn, he that has to slide into central midfield and you don't have a lot of space left in there. I will say all this and they had injuries this year. They got caught with their pants down. Bring depth in like have starting level players that aren't locked in starters. It's a long season. and you want to compete on multiple fronts like none of that i have an issue with i was just surprised to hear the amount because it didn't feel like there was openings and like they've spent money on some of these guys they've brought like if you don't believe in linger you have no choice now like he's there is he called panse's there so it's yeah linger's not a DP like he was just like counting purposes last year like he's a template okay that's not cheap i understand like but I do think that this is a player that got that got kind of caught with the DP tag

when it was just like a counting mechanism rather than remember Sam Stasco or poor one out for a guy Sam Stasco back when he when his fingers worked and he wrote he wrote this this really good piece on like we need to talk up like different tiers of DPs to like alleviate

like to change expectations so that again like the average MOS fans I didn't know who this player was when they signed him and that doesn't mean that he's bad that when you say DP, it's just like, oh, he must be awesome. Oh, Danny Bwango is a DP I never heard of. He's going to, like, two different things. Yeah.

I don't disagree. We're ready. Ready for the next team? Yeah, Brooklyn Raines, by the way, another one in MLS. I'll be hyped about. I like Brooklyn Raines. Sure. I think he's not as good as he showed on the U20 national team.

I think he's better than what he's shown with Houston. All right. Yeah. Shout out to Tam game. Thank you, Sam. Next team to talk. about Orlando. Orlando is cooking right now.

We'll start with the U-22 initiative. They are finalizing deals to sign a Brazilian winger named Tiago from Bahia. I'm told the fees around $4 million. It was reported in Brazil with $6 million. I'm told four. And they're signing Ottavio,

a 19-year-old defensive midfielder from Internacional for, I believe, the fees in the region of $3.5 million. Two U-22 slots. That immediately, like, Otavio goes into the midfield, Cizio-Rahos leaving. And Tiago is a winger, but he can he has played center forward for bahia not just at the youth levels but at the senior

level too so that gives them flexibility in the attack rodrigo schlegel they are nearing a deal to sell him to atlas for around 600,000 our culture has gotten worse when he leaves and league amex he belongs in league emmx let him go home top let him be where he needs to be that's awesome Rodrigo Schlegel, he needs a chaos. Who does Francisco Calvo play for now? Because they need to play together. I think he was playing in like Saudi Arabia or Slovakia. He was in Turkey and then he was back in, wasn't he back in?

I don't know. I can't keep up with that guy other than when he's just, he plays like Sergio Ramos when he's He plays for El Etifok in Saudi Arabia. Okay, good call. You were right. I always have my EtiFok transfers on the top of my head. Elsewhere for them. They traded Thomas Williams to Nashville for 100,000

and occasion money. And we'll see what else happens with this team. There, I don't know if I would go as far as I expect Moriola leave. Maybe it's more hopeful, but like there's been interest in him from Columbia. And Orlando ain't standing his way kind of thing, right? So if that happens, then they can add a DP. And this is, I think, already a strong team. They're going to need to sign a goalkeeper.

I'm told that they like Carlos Cornell and West Free Agency. that's a good one yeah yeah um and they've got a couple other things to do like maybe this like with with slago leaving maybe brecklo now plays centerback maybe this tweaks of formation or the system just a little bit but um there's a lot of good players there's a lot to like in this group so i just want to go back real quick and say that alvaro madron plays on this saudi team with francisco calvo and jrne waldo so there's a there's a roster the team that jrude jrard yes that is that is the team we're talking about um man jean you went out i'm still there yeah well that's what it says for him what do i know good for him yeah uh Orlando they have taken a lot of risk with young

players like they are very open to signing these under 22 players that they need production from them for them to come into the team which is you know it's not a proven entity in major league soccer that those players end up being starter level producers year one let alone high level players and it feels like you're trying to replace a lot of production. I mean, Araujo alone, and then obviously Pedro Gaiese and whatever you're going to be doing at centerback. But if they can improve centerback, that's a huge jump for this team. Because for all the jokes I'm making Schlegel, to me, wasn't a starter level centerback

over the last few years. And they chose to stay with him rather than replace Antonio Carlos when he left and give Jansen, like, a true partner. And that's been one of their biggest weaknesses where they've dominated games. they've lost because they've had fragile moments and it's between Gaiese who's a big game performer but has mistakes in him and then Schlegel

alongside him so if that all comes up which is the safety at the back you know raising the floor then if the ceiling doesn't jump this is still a good team it's still a competitive team and I think that's fine and that's one of those places where then maybe you do have a little time to wait for some of the

young players to find their feet and develop but yeah and to add to add with the you 22 like it is a fair point to say like it's difficult to like rely like it should be viewed in particularly in the first half of the first season that there is like a bonus of anything you get their central midfield depth is at westa and and wildercotta hana so like those are the two starters and i like that so i don't think that this kid is coming in is like all right you need to start on day one hope you're ready um so that's a good spot to be in they also have

uh uh gerbe who was their draft pick last year i like that has been good yeah but but he's Him and Cartagena are both long-term injuries they're coming off of. Well, Cartagana is back. Yeah. I don't know about Jerba. That's a good point. I don't know when that injury was. But Cartagana was at, like, the beginning of last season.

I think it was preseason, actually. Yeah, it was. So he'll be back. I wanted to give a shout to Zippy Tuna in the chat, who's always with us, who we love, who asks us about Danny Lava. We talked about it in the past. I think Jeremiah Ocean put the official numbers out that it's a million dollars is what they're saying they're bringing in. and somehow they can work it I think I guess because of his contract coming off plus the money coming in

it could be up to 1.5 million onto the cap or spending flexibility that was that was a weird way yeah I didn't really get that I I'm making that up about the salary thing on the fly no no I know like and and I saw and like again like that's I don't that wasn't meant to be disrespectful I didn't an interesting a different way of like oh like because that's how some CSOs look at it it's not just what's the fee it's just like all right what does this mean for the salary cap so like um it was just interesting to see that kind of like like that was good reporting by your mind yeah um also we have a bunch of super draft conversation going on in the chat which i love because the sicko super draft situation is upon us okay tom you can keep rolling um if you have any other i don't want

to take away thomas williams for me because i'm going to move teams now and i'm hyped about tommy williams a hundred thousand for this and a draft pick makes sense um Oscar Preah is the one who kept telling me how good Tommy Williams So what am I supposed to do? I thought he was going to be Alex Freeman last year

Yeah Yeah he kept having opportunities Or he never got opportunities They kept talking about him Being the one to break through And I think at some point It's fair to say Okay, it didn't happen

Is there a wall? He is a physically early developer Right? He was over six foot tall At 15 And so he gets pulled into a first team And then he spends three to four years not making it through.

And you don't know what that does to a player, but it feels like Nashville has an idea of what he could be. Nashville is one of those teams that doesn't really have an academy right now. So they're sort of buying homegrowns from other teams or finding them in the draft to be able to improve their team. So I think he's got a shot to be a really good player. And I think no matter what, the risk that Nashville is putting on the board is exactly what you want to do with these assets.

I agree. and helps new coaching staff that plays young players so you have a chance to make these moves and again you're not going to go

100% particularly in some of these but like again at 100,000 good roll of dice and for like good on Orlando for like all right like yeah we're not going to play them

yeah you'd hope there's some cell on in there for them yeah I didn't see anything in the release yeah you know but like you know there are some teams that'll be like hey we know you're not good enough to play okay oh well you're so valuable to us

we need six it's like wait those two things can't be true or it's like with contracts it goes no no no we're not going to new contract oh well actually we need two million dollars service like what do you do what are you talking about both can't you got to do one or the other if I'm that valuable then you got to give me a contract I like that we actually if I'm not worth the contract we started this show the first chat was I'm trying to push Justin Hacked

to Orlando which brings us full circle on you're not going to play that much but you're too valuable to let go and now here He's a very valuable free agent. Yes, he is. He's, again, one of the more key. We'll get there in a second, but we've got to talk Montreal. So the transition from Orlando to Montreal,

Dagger Dan Throhalson goes in a trade to Montreal for 500,000 gam plus another 125 in add-ons. Brian Vera, as previously reported, that's done 1.2 million gam plus another 350,000. So that is a guaranteed 1.7 million gam up to North. of two million game for these two players yeah i don't like that yeah that's a lot the the vera one is more offensive to me than dagger dan because as i said 500k for a starter i think you're in the ballpark of and i think dagger dan is a starter the odd part about orlando is we assume Alex Freeman is going to get sold. I mean, I'm not asking you to, my point is

Alex Freeman will not be on Orlando to start the 2027 season no matter what. Correct. So if you have a relationship with Dagger Dan, who was your starting right back before you were placing with Alex Freeman, is now the time to get off of him. And as I keep saying, this is the number that you have to pay. So it's not like they got a great deal. They got the deal worth value. I appreciate Montreal. I appreciate Montreal going out and getting starters to help young players do not make their lives miserable. And I think this is a fine position to do it at.

And then Dagger Dan, maybe you start to see, didn't he originally came in as a center mid and then they played him at right back. Correct. And he became right back. So maybe there's space as well for Montreal to feel like there's a higher ceiling. If as he gets his feet wet there, they can move him higher up the field and maybe he becomes a factor way. I don't mind that move.

Vera, I don't think he's an elite center back in unless. This feels like a crazy number to pay for this guy. the only devil's advocate here is he's on like 600,000 so if you want to do the cap counting it was like what what did bill to iloma get traded for it was like a higher fee than 750 i think yeah but because he was on like a very very team-friendly deal and that was part of the price it's just like if he was a more difficult contract to trade it would have been less and so maybe that's at play here but i agree with you it's a wild move but now i think you get more out of jalen neal or effron morales if they're playing alongside vera at least to start um and i think you can potentially

help adante celie or whoever else by having dagger dan on the team like this is what we said was they have over calculated in some ways at times and you need some adults in the room who can help it just seems like a lot to give up for some guys that who else who who else was like who were they bidding against to get brian barrow adult in the room for somebody who is constantly on like a should not have been a red card exactly um that's all i got a much that's all the juice who got for it's all my god is all the god are we done i think so okay we had matthew shonnier made permanent which was announced uh you don't like it if it's not your thing you don't want to talk about it so that was made permanent i was i was honestly my looking at the rundown

I skipped into the next section and I'm getting ready to start feeling. And then Sergio, I got to listen, I got to go back to the training ground and I got to be better one day at a time and just wait humbly for my next chance. Sergio Arregulon is still being connected to,

to Inter Miami, which they won MLS Cup. So therefore all their stuff was delayed the most in terms of making their announcements and then figuring out what they want to do. So that's one that we're just going to keep hearing and waiting on as we go forward. Thanks to everyone in the chat for all the questions, all the comments.

I think we've touched on a bunch of them, but you keep throwing them in there. We're going to talk a little bit about free agents and Kanka champions, and then we can answer some stuff at the end. But as I said, big mailbag episode coming up before the holidays so that we can get to a lot of the stuff that you are all curious about. I have one question from the chat, which is the most sick-o thing. Anybody's ever asked me from Mason.

Tom, are you covering the re-entry draft? I just want to say, I love you. we got some super draft stuff what was the trade it was montreal and dallas it was a super draft pick for allocation money yeah Dallas moved up to number three um and shout out to Dallas's uh media team they were pretty like they were ready after the announcement with an interview with logan farrington they traded up to the number three spot to draft logan farrington and they had they had that ready it was really good Ryan is the one over there who does that one of the best in the game so yeah continue uh let's go into so now we're going to go to free agents yeah let me i'm gonna

these are the best the best players on the board for me uh christian espinoza christian ben tagge dain sinclair justin hack carlos coronel walker zimmerman mckeel ure paul rothrock really quickly on ure i wrote um a piece that i was like you're the top 10 and i didn't have him in it only because i was like oh he's just he's just going back to europe and or maybe St. Philly. So what I've been told is that he is talking to multiple teams and he is open to staying in MLS, even if it isn't in Philly. So I've elevated him back into the top 10 just because at first I was like, oh, he's not staying here. Like, why, why put him in this? So one of the, that's an interesting development. One of the ones that I didn't put in because I also kind of assumed

there's no way he plays for a different MLS team. Is Robin Ludd like really a free agent? Yeah, I'm still expecting him to come back. But like, I crap, man. I was saying that about Dane Sinclair. I don't know the ins and outs in the negotiation. If he's a real free agent, he is, to me, a top three free agent. He thinks, even at 32? Yeah.

He's so flexible. He's so good. He's now played in a system that isn't, I don't think, plays to his strengths. And he has shown that he can be really, really good. I would say he's a guy where, again, like inelli, there's not a team that I don't like them bringing him in. And now the conversation.

of like mid-table teams that are trying to make a bump, it's a safe move for an SKC. It's a safe move. Well, they're not mid-table, so I don't even know why I said that. It's a safe move for an R-SL. Like teams like that where you're like,

okay, whatever contract status he ends up on, he's going to give you production. Or if a big team can sneak him in against the cap, he becomes like a championship keystone player where we talk about when Victor Vasquez got to Toronto where it's like they just needed one more. He could be that one more if he wants. if he wants to be for a championship team

because he is a DP level player I wouldn't go as far as that but I do agree that he's like he can be a key piece on a good team the only worry there is longevity obviously there are some guys that are in their 30s that I that I do again load should be you're right I agree with that

but like you know a guy like Walker Zimmer and I still think he's very valuable he's 32 right he's not he made best 11 five years in row he's not quite that guy and guess what? The guy he is right now is still very good, I think, and particularly in the right system. Toronto, like, for playing for Robin Frazier,

for that team, what they need on the field, obviously first and foremost is very important, off the field. They're continuing to reset the culture, and they've done a lot of great work so far, and who better to bring in than a guy like Walker Zimmer and free agency to plug the hole on the field and in the locker room,

which is, again, important. Christian Ben Zakei, I just have, I just want to will it into existence. with him going to Minnesota. I want to be clear, I'd be surprised. Minnesota under Caled Al-Amade, they don't sign guys of this profile

or of this fee. I mean, look at Dane St. Clair made free agency. Again, I don't know the ins and outs of what the negotiations were. I don't know how you let him get to free agency. I don't know how Seattle lets Paul Rothrock get to free agency.

Because Paul Rothrock is capped in a tier where he can only make the senior maximum that's like whatever 700,000 like Seattle I'm surprised that they didn't get that deal done before free agency and same thing with Dan St. Clair just won a goalkeeper the year

and you're not going to win goalkeeper every year but he's established he's a high level goalkeeper in this league and those players cost money I'm just surprised Dan St. Clair you could argue is the MVP of that club like they are defensive

yeah their defensive base team the goal for a lot of playoff games is to get to PKs where he's a difference maker like plus he's going to be on a World Cup stage maybe like very in a very big way which is not the whole reason but one it has a potential sell on at the end if you're worried about the contract and two

it promotes your team and put you in a good spot one of the ones we keep getting is Justin Hack who a lot of people have put out there my pick is Justin Hack to San Jose as I think he fits best and I three centerback setup. If you're just in hack, and I'm not joking when I say more than half of the league has called about them, why would San Jose be up there?

Like, let's, again, you can insert any teams, and you have the likelihood is that they have at least called. And obviously, the finances have to be correct. But like, all things being equal, let's say you have to choose from LA Galaxy, LAFC, going back to NYCFC. But is the contract the same between LA Galaxy, LAFC and San Jose for you? I'm saying all the things. things being in. Oh yeah, but I don't think there'll be. And again, this is another player.

There's a cat. I should have started this section with this. It is infuriating to me that this isn't free agency. We need to call it something else. I even tried to read the CBA immediately regretted that did not get any information from it. Ask people who are smarter than the honest. Because Christian Espinoza, you can only offer him 90% of what whatever San Jose offered him. And it's like that depending on what two you're in. Paul Rothrock, you can only offer him the max. But you need to qualify free agency this isn't free agency there's nothing free about it yeah there you can't offer anything the other thing i would say for hack is i don't know that he's just even if he gets the conversation i don't know that he's a locked in starter for a lot of these teams but my main thing is

i think he needs to be a center back in a back three sure so he has to find a group that's playing that way and go there and that's not every team in mLS right now or or have like a hard man next to him like him and tiago martin's like that was such a good partnership and i know that it was a back three with gustavo um but if he's the ball player and you have more of a destroyer and again teago martin's can do a ball playing that's why he's a dp he's a very good player but like that dude is is just made of steel yeah and just uh physical presence on top of so if if you pair him with somebody like that in a back four i think that can work yeah any other free agent convos before we move no i i will say um every year i have to remind myself that this isn't like the NBA where um after

the tampering the you know you can't tamper so you can't talk to people um and then the free agency opens at a 1 p.m eastern at 102 p.m it's you know there's a deal that's magically completely already all done and all the little nuances it's really impressive that you can get that done in 120 seconds so like i was like ready for that and then i was like oh yeah like that's not how it works it plenty of time in the offseason for these players to make decisions and figure out what they want to do less time for the teams that are in conca champions we got our bracket on tuesday night or whenever it was as i said another awkward draw um in general i'd say tough draw for major league soccer teams and that for the most part you have to face probably a league mx team before you

even get to a quarter final let alone the fact that everyone will have to go through one to get to a semi-final. And then there's some tough MLS on MLS matchups potentially coming, as well as, of course, Al-Holense has had the success. They've had over the last few years and some of the other big teams in the region. One of the most delicious ones just out the gate is San Diego drawing Pumas, their first ever conquer champions. You're sitting right on the Mexico border. You know, for many people, they were Tijuana fans. They listened to League of X on the radio. They watch it on TV, like our friend McKellie Gino and I covered League MX full time living in Tijuana. Like you are living in San Diego, you are right there.

It's not Tj. It's Pumas. And then the winner of that will move into a Toluca, a game against Toluca who are on a buy into the next round. And if they were to go far enough, LA Galaxy are in that little quadrant as well. LA Galaxy playing sporting San Miguelito from Panama in their opening game into a buy against Mount Pleasant, which is the buy you want like that's the portion of the bracket you want to be in it's a very favorable draw just just to just to get to the quarterfinals but that little corner of the world obviously we saw tuluka in la galaxy in the i want to say it was the league amex esportiva

walmart ex explainer championship friendly cup was that the game that it was yeah i think so sponsored by sparrow last year uh which was a wild game and tuluka are in the legia final again they're playing later tonight uh in that team in the first leg and yeah they've been really really impressive um they're one of the teams to watch ruiz and midfield's incredible so that's a really really strong quadrant and san diego's first shot at this it doesn't get easy it's not easy we've seen teams really struggle remember austin losing and their first opportunity to a haysian club was it or a dominican club a haysian team that it was playing in dominican republic because their league was canceled due to uh yes political turmoil in haiti um so that's one of the really big regions somehow

national interm Miami end up in a potential clash again i don't know what's going on every year it's every year it's three times a year there's like not much between them except for the fact that they just keep playing and it's always meaningful games so now i guess they're rivals uh national would have to get through ottawa first who were CPL champions for the first time which was really really cool to see on the MLS side of things the other one that could be all MLS in the next round would be Seattle got a buy and Vancouver white caps

if they're able to get a victory in the first round, they would move into all Cascadia round of 16 which is a pretty tasty game to just have earlier in the year. For sure and in that quadrant there's a possible setup of Cincinnati Tigris in the round of 16

that's another big time matchup but again there's outside of Galaxy getting pleasant potentially again if they get through the first round there isn't like

when you get to around a 16 as it should be in a regional competition there is an easy match like it's L.AFC would get Al-Holense if they're able to get by Real Espania which remember three years ago

or maybe we'll act no that was Leone I thought it was the game right before COVID whatever it was LASC went down I think they lost alohelense or they lost in the second leg at home and almost lost the tie.

So they have a little bit of history there, and it was an incredible series. So that's not easy. And then in that quadrant, you have Cruz Azul and Monterey, potentially floating in a quarter final, if Vancouver FC doesn't knock all of them out the water in their first opportunity.

So this is the pathway. The final will be on May 30th. My understanding from what I've heard is there's two separate February start dates. There's like an early February one, and then a two-week break, and then a late one. and I don't think the MLS teams know which one they're all in yet. So they're all fingers cross hoping for the second one.

Otherwise, you just start earlier for no reason. But that has to do with the other leagues that are all currently in their claus and playing competitions and all of that. So it's a wild and wacky region. It's why we're obsessed with it. It's why we absolutely love it. Olympia Club America,

you know is going to be like, oh, I'm not going to watch this. And Olympia is going to put up like a four spot in the first leg. And then Club America is going to win 70 in the second leg. So after we go to Halifax, maybe we'll get a CCL game in there at some point, sponsored by Saudi Arabia, as it always is, in this region. Okay. Yeah, there was. That's all we had for live stuff on the show today.

So thank you to all of you for joining us. Thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you to you, Tom, especially for all of your insights and all of your work. If anyone has a question here laid on in the chat, we can hang out for a minute and take them. But if anyone doesn't, then we can move out of here. and head out. And we're going to keep doing this throughout the off season.

So make sure to jump in. We'll put out some posts on blue sky when we're going to go live. Make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube so you get the alert and we'll talk to you all again very, very soon. Thank you.