SoccerWise - Kenza Dali (San Diego) & Jeff Kassouf (ESPN) On NWSL Schedule Change & Columbus Expansion

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

A show we are so excited to share with you at Soccerwise. First David digs into the big breaking news around NWSL with Jeff Kassouf(ESPN). They talk about the details about the growing momentum to an NWSL schedule change & the recent expansion news in Columbus. Then David sits down with San Diego Wave star Kenza Dali for one of the best soccer conversations you will ever hear. She talks about her beliefs and goals in the game, and takes you on to the field in San Diego.2:09 David's Thoughts On NWSL Schedule Change10:00 Jeff Kassouf On Schedule Change News19:13 Jeff on Columbus Expansion26:12 Kenza Dali Interview

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Soccer Wise for a loaded episode. Jordan Angelink, not with us. Today, she's at some big time fancy events in New York City. But we have so much to talk about. So in her place, we have someone you know very well, Jeff Kassuf, you know him from ESPN, one of the founders at Equalizer Soccer. We're going to talk about, of course, the schedule flip and the potential for that, as well as the big news around Columbus being added as the latest expansion team in NWSL. And then we have, I'm just going to say, maybe the best interview I've ever done in my career. And that is over a decade talking to people about soccer. We are talking with San Diego Wave Maestro, Kenza Dali. We talk about her on this show all the time. We love the way she plays.

Many of you love the way she plays as well. San Diego fans maybe know even better than I do, how special a player they have. The passion, the conviction, the belief that she has for the game in general and especially for the way the game can be played and what it can mean to people and the connection it has. So much comes into place and view for me in that conversation about why San Diego is having the success they're having on the back of very young players, very talented players, but players were not as much experience. She talks about in the interview challenging the Kimmy O'Scanios, the Mel Barsanuses, the Gia Corleys of the world, even the Lujmila Trinity Armstrong's to take risks to believe in themselves.

It is so much fun. I didn't know how long it would be. And honestly, I could have done it all day. So we've got that interview coming up as well in the show. Before we get into it with Jeff talking about the details, want to give some quick thoughts on some of the information coming out, especially around the schedule change. I encourage you to go listen to our kickback committee episode this week.

Susanna Fuller hosting every single week this week in, our group of committee members. We have Brianna Pinto, who is, of course, very involved in these conversations and has the current player view on things. I think she can speak to this maybe even better than me. But as someone from the outside, watching things in this space, the story that we are getting is that NWSL is getting close to a board vote on switching the schedule around to what aligns with as is phrased an international soccer schedule.

I call it a European soccer schedule in which seasons will start somewhere in August and they will end somewhere in May. So summers will be off where you have the international tournaments like a World Cup, like an Olympics, like a Copa America, and then you have probably

a winter break cooked in there. One of the stories right now is that obviously that's happening in Major League Soccer, which we cover very heavily here at soccer-wise. And so learning about that, you get some of the details. And the reality is the winter break is so long it is almost an offseason and the summer is going to start so early that the schedule

isn't going to change i think as much as people expected it to but it aligns you with some of these international transfer windows that set you up with european soccer now for me this is a huge mistake for nws hell i think for starters the reality is people don't want to go to games in the winter in most of the country so you are making the attendance harder. And that should be the starting point for soccer leagues in the U.S. Get people in the building to experience your product. What can you offer that Barcelona and Arsenal and Chelsea and PSG and Leon cannot

to fans in Louisville and Seattle and San Diego and Boston is an in-person experience? So anything that jeopardizes that I think is a mess. Now, you can convince me that sometimes summer is maybe worse in some places than winter. That's fine. I think what happened with Kansas City last year, the need for some of these TV windows, I think that's a mistake. You should be playing games at night when it's comfortable,

but that's another conversation. But I think you're going to hurt your attendance. I think you're also probably going to end up in a situation where a team could be playing well in the first half of the season and you would have to say to your fans, okay, you like this, they'll be back in two and a half months, right? Like Boston or Chicago or Denver or Utah or Seattle

or Seattle, oh, they've had a great start to the season. They're in first place as we hit mid-November. Well, we weren't sure what the weather would be, so they're going to play the last three games of this first half of the season away, and we don't want to play at home games in February. So now this team's coming back in March, and I don't think that's a fan experience that people connect to. I think a break in the summer for big international tournaments,

which surges the interest in the sport, and puts your players in a bigger spotlight for them to them, step back into club play and say, oh, you liked watching that? Oh, you thought that, you know, you were watching the best players in the world. S. Mae Morgan and Jess Carter on England are playing in a final. Well, they'll be playing an NWSL in two weeks. I think that is more attractive. The transfer side of things, I think is a red herring conversation right now. It's a big part of the work teams do. Look at what Houston just did. The majority of their players that have turned this team around have come out of college soccer. Like, there is not a clear line right now between European transfers

and team success. There is also not a robust market. It's growing. And the Naomi Germa's and you know, Olivia Smith of the world and all of that, those numbers are going up. But on average, that is not a huge moneymaking thing. For MLS, which is a league in a totally different reality, they are far down the pecking order in their world order. They are hoping for transfer fees. They are hoping to become more comfortable for transfer so that they can steal some players at the end of transfer windows. That's what you're talking about. We are talking about Katerina Makario and Kenza Dali and Janice daughter. We're talking about some of the best players in the world choosing to come to NWSL because it's the best league in the world. It's a completely different conversation

and it's one that you can be a leader in. I'm not saying the rest of the world's going to change their calendar. But if NWSL continues to push forward, and by the way, increasing the salary cap, get you there quicker than any of this conversation, then the other leagues are going to find ways to bend over backwards to work with you because you are the heavy hitter. You are the one that if they want to get a big sale, Claudio Martinez is coming to NWSA.

So now people in South American leagues are saying, how can we align ourselves? How can we connect ourselves to NWSL? Because that's where the big payoff is. That's where the big opportunity is for our players. NWSL has a chance to be a leader in that, And it feels like they're choosing to be a follower. And obviously, as someone who's been in the soccer space for a long time,

this has a lot of the inferiority complex that a lot of Americans work from when it comes to soccer. And a lot of those are people who are not soccer people at their core. And so they come into soccer later in life and they feel that what they work on and what they know and what they do is not as good as what happens in Europe. And someone comes in with an accent or experience, which is fair, and says, oh, this is the way things are done. and everyone goes that way. But what NWSL is trying to build is fairly unprecedented. They are trying to build the best soccer league in the world in the U.S., which doesn't exist right now.

They are trying to build a league from scratch to be a giant in women's sports, which maybe the WNBA, you could argue, is there, but otherwise doesn't really exist in the world. It is not, you're not going to get there following other entities. And I think NWSL coming from the reality that we're talking about a $200 million expansion fee, on the backs of the purchases of Angel City in San Diego for the numbers they are at in Atlanta, for the number that it's at, and the crowd in Denver, be a leader in this space.

I think you are opening yourself up to injuries. I think you're opening yourself up because of the weather to more turf fields. I think you're opening yourself up to some other issues with stadium control. And I think also the like, oh, well, college football in the NFL, forget that. You want to move the championship game from Sunday or Saturday to Friday night, fine. But one of MLS's huge issues is there's an international break in the playoffs and their playoffs so expanded that the whole thing becomes a mess and everyone stops following. And WSL doesn't have that problem.

Single elimination, you cruise through the playoffs, the momentum builds, and then you get to your final. And moving that into May when the NBA playoffs and the NHL playoffs and the WNBA has restarted, and now MLS is aligned with that. And guess what? So is UAFa Champions League. So is every other league in the world. I just don't know that you're clearing out the clutter. There's always going to be stuff.

Choose your lane. And I think, you know, put your blinders on and drive in that lane as well as you can. And it feels like NWSL is trying to find stuff. But let's get all the details. Let's get the full understanding. And so to do that, we are going to talk with one of the best in the game. You know him very well. Jeff Kusuf.

Thanks for having me. Good to be here. So you have been leading the charge on a lot of the reporting that has gone on. and it's always fun, right? We get international break, very few games, what are we going to talk about, and then you are dropping big news in, and it continues, it feels like, to roll out there.

Let's start on the schedule change, and then we'll talk about Columbus as well. But you were the first one to put out the reporting around sort of the growing, it feels like, speed and maybe energy towards NWSL, whether it's just the vote or the actual result of moving to a schedule flip, one that would align, as many people say,

with the European calendar, I guess give us sort of your experience as you've gone through this of what the conversations have been like and what are the mechanisms now going forward. Yeah, I mean, I've been reporting on this for years and I don't know, somewhat maybe personally validating that as I've tried to tell people this is a major topic years ago and it seemed kind of nerdy and niche that it is now like, I would say, one of, if not near the top of the list of defining things that this league is going to decide on and debate. And that is imminent. I mean, look, I mean, I also reported on the hip rule ahead of that getting voted on or before it was even sort of formally called that.

And I will say that the exact details, the mechanisms, not, I mean, this is really just like, are you going to flip or not. But these things can change right up until a board meeting, which is imminent here as we record. But yeah, it's, you know, it's been years. and I would say that the debate hasn't changed a lot. I mean, what's changed maybe MLS has made the decision to make the change to fall to spring in the time since. The NWSL really got into this, which was, you know, pre-20203 World Cup

was a big moment in this debate where some things bubbled over in terms of, you know, clubs not wanting to release U.S. players outside of FIFA windows, the U.S. having plans already set to, you know, be in New Zealand weeks ahead of time. And so that really kicked things off. That was over three years ago. 2024, late 2024, you know, 18 months or so ago, this was narrowly voted down.

I don't know that that has changed in terms of this is not unanimous. If it were, I think it would be done already, right? And I think any vote's going to be tight again. It just feels as though maybe the momentum is there. The fact that it's brought back to or potentially going to be brought back to a vote again, you know, typically, when you get to the point of voting, and obviously the 2024 note I just shared would buck this trend. But typically things go to a vote when there's some confidence whoever's putting it forward that it will pass.

So yeah, I think it's just in that sense, like the parameters haven't changed, right? Like it's deciding on what to do. It's the FIFA windows. It's the weather. You know, those things have all been the same kind of conversations really for years. It is, I think one of the hardest parts about this conversation from NWSEL's point of view is the wide range of stadium situations that you have. And you look through the league and you have teams that own their buildings but co-own them with

MLS teams that are about to change their schedule. You have teams playing in football stadiums. You have teams that are about to play. And I don't even know what we're going to call White Stadium, a high school local facility that's shared with a pro team that rents it but doesn't own it. And so I think that part is really hard to understand is the, advantages for one team are very different than the advantages for another as you've got expansion entities coming in and new expansion ones coming in like does Atlanta and we'll talk

about Columbus get a vote in this like how does it how does it all sort of work as a group together well that's a good question at the end there on voting because that's a weird nuance thing where those are a little bit delayed as I understand in terms of when you you sort of get a full board vote so I don't know the answer to that exactly I would I would guess with Columbus being, you know, a day gone from being public that maybe the answer is no there, but I'm not sure about that. But I think, yeah, your venue point is sound. I mean, I think it can cut both ways with, you know, the idea of, I think people would look at this and say MLS is, right, and, you know, maybe we were talking about this a little bit, like MLS is going to the fall to spring,

summers are open, summers are, you know, I think depends who you talk to. Like, they're more open for some people, some people just want to go on vacation. I mean, those are all like anecdotal arguments usually, but, you know, the summer's being open is a big thing. And then there's also the fact that, you know, the venues, I think what we need to look into more and some things I've heard about the cadence of when schedules are made and the fact that, to your point, secondary, I would say even tertiary tenants in a lot of these cases for NWSL teams.

I mean, we're only a year removed or so from like, Angel City's opener getting bumped for like a I'm sorry I don't want to be disrespectful with some kind of a science fair or you know convention that wasn't even in the stadium but was on the grounds or San Diego moving a home game to an away game because of the quality of their field right so you know I think when you look at that that's always going to be a conversation and I don't know that there's a good solution in in any calendar yeah in any part of the calendar other than getting these teams to be in better situations which is you

at least for expansion teams, you can kind of mandate that, even though, to your point, I'm not sold as many or not on the Boston setup. But, you know, with legacy teams, I mean, Chicago, we still don't know where they're playing next year. Maybe that's some political grandstanding, but like there's a lot of questions on that front and venues. So I guess one of my questions, and you've talked about how long you've been reporting on this and hearing about it. So I think we talked about this a little bit on the show last year. I was at a soccer conference here in Miami, and Tatiana Hiana Hiana at the time was supporting director, asked about it on a panel.

And I think what surprised me was how casual it was of, yeah, we're going to look at it, we're going to talk about it, it probably makes a lot of sense, where it felt like a third rail conversation a few years ago that it would have been a roundabout answer that never would have actually touched on it. Are you surprised how quickly it's moved? Are you surprised where it's come?

And I guess the big question, and all of this is like, is this a silver bullet of SunSart? Does anyone think it is? Or is it just, here's a thing to do and we're just going to do it? I'm not surprised. I actually think it's maybe been slower in that sense because it's been bubbling for years. It came to a vote 18 months ago.

And it wasn't as if the no vote was, we'll never do this. It was just it didn't have the momentum at the time and it was close. So, yeah, I think if anything may be slightly slower. I don't know if it's fair to say reactionary, but like the idea that MLS did it, you know, at least if you look at the reporting cycles, and I'm looking at this from the media lens, I guess, but like, you know, I was looking at this over three years ago. And as best I know, and you would better answer this, that wasn't a public conversation in MLS. Maybe it was like an idea, but I don't recall a level of reporting that, like, they're actually thinking about this.

And I feel like that window on the MLS front very quickly went from this might be a thing to it's being voted and it's done. whereas NWSL has had years of kind of thinking about it. And I think that could kind of paint more of a macro picture of, are they too reactionary and, you know, being second here. So I think, yeah, speed doesn't surprise me. I do, you know, having spent so much time talking to people like many people, I feel like in the conversation, I would say people, I mean sporting directors or GMs or executives, you know, there are people on each.

side of the fence for sure. And then there's a group of them that to me as kind of a, I don't know, a logical person. I feel like it's like, you know, there are people who are like, look, there's a break in the summer and there's a break in the winter either way. And then it's about where are we starting and where are we ending. And that's an oversimplification, as I've said before. But, you know, in some ways, yeah, because three out of four summers, you have to break. Here's a summer where there's not even a women's tournament. But because the men's World Cup is here, they have to break because they can't use their venues. And so that's that's always a summer problem.

And then the winter, the weather's always going to get, it's always going to be a problem. But the weather's been a problem in the summer as well for the most part. So it's, I don't know if it's a win-win, a lose-lose or what. But, you know, it's, I think it's, yeah, to your point, it's maybe less wild, at least, as a concept than people might think at a glance. The one thing connecting it to MLS, which is, I think could be interesting, is the big story was that MLS had the easy lineup of the 26th World Cup. You do a short season.

The biggest sporting event in the history of the country happens, and then you come out of it. NWSL does have an Olympics coming, and they've potentially got a women's World Cup around the corner. I know the wording with the CBA was the year warning, and maybe that is where some of this timeline comes in of if you can get that year warning to the players union fast enough, can you line this up around an L.A. Olympics? and can you come out of an LA Olympics into your first, you know, fall to spring season and roll off the back of Lindsay Heap's leading a home team to a gold medal or whoever it ends up being at that time. Maybe it's just Claire Hutton as the captain of that team.

I want to talk about the other huge story that broke this week, which is Columbus, getting the latest bid for an NWSL team. The Haslam family, owners currently of the Cleveland Browns and the Columbus crew, are going to be in this ownership group. There is a little bit, I think, of local angst about the vote and maybe where some of the money is falling for some of this as it feels like it is with every professional sports team. But this is a pretty big moment.

We heard the commissioner say, okay, we're not going to do this in blocks anymore. And I think to me that sort of said, like, we're going to take our time and wait. And then all of a sudden it was Atlanta and Columbus right through. What do you make of this news breaking now? Maybe what does this mean for the least? league. Yeah, I did watch more of the Columbus City Council meetings than I think I've watched

of most city council meetings. How would you rank it on City Council meetings? Well, the list is pretty short for me, you know, mostly related to work, but it was, it was spicy. And I see certainly, I mean, we don't have the time to get into, you know, effectively just the, I mean, look, the team is putting a training site on a park that had previously been designated and was even supposed to break ground soon in what was said by locals to be the poorest and one of the most underserved neighborhoods in the entire state. So, you know, and they're getting $50 million from the government to do it. So I think, you know, this is a men's sport thing too. It's everywhere, but, you know, to the angst point. And I'd encourage people to read the local reporting on that.

But, you know, as far as the team, team 18, yeah, I think, you know, the 205 million. I mean, look, to me, this is like money talk stuff, right? It's the expansion fee in five years has gone up from $2 million to $205 million. Wow. And, you know, I among many, I think, sit here from a logistical standpoint and question how much more do you go? Because certainly there's markets, but whether that's the player pool and I know, whether it's the player pool, the coaching pool, the executives pool, and maybe the latter is doable. but and then even just like getting your house in order maybe at a league level but certainly at a club level where there are clubs that are not performing and maybe these expansion teams push them forward but at what point do you tell them to either figure it out or use them as a relocation to a market you're looking at. So the idea of a 30-team league has been some level of discussion at a public level from Jessica Berman,

even if she's kind of said that's more of a conceptual thing. It feels pretty tangible by the pace of which we're expanding. And I think that's tough. It's hard to imagine a 30-team league and everything being at the quality at which you'd expect, everything being where you'd want it to be. But, you know, as far as Columbus, I think the cruise history and success is, or was a big part of this. I mean, again, the money talks, $205 million, somebody to pay that. But, you know, I think because you could look at that and say the league kept talking about being in big markets and wanting to be in, you know, Columbus is not relative to these other markets that are still not in, is not atop that list by any means.

But the local success, the soccer history, I think played, you know, a role on top of the financials. everything else. And so is that where we stand, which is if a group has the bid, the league listens, the league decides, and, you know, not having these specific openings, is this just the reality going forward? It is. I mean, I think, look, it's, it is like the MLS playbook to a degree where, you know, for how many years can Don Garber kind of say, you know, shut the door. Are we expanding? are we not? What's the number? And, you know, just like, I mean, it's the same thing, right? Like, this league was 10 teams five years ago. Now it's going to be 18. And nobody is going to say, like Jessica Berman would not get up there and say, we're done for a while, right? Because

somebody's going to come and say, man, this is what keeps happening. Atlanta, Columbus, before them, Denver and Boston. I mean, the Columbus City Council meeting painted this picture of, we get this team now, we're not going to get it. And I don't think that's true because what it really means is we get this team now where we're going to pay a lot more in a year or two because four months ago Atlanta paid $40 million less. So that's a pretty steep increase. So it's really more of, I think, the three pillars that Berman has talked about of ownership, infrastructure, and market. You know, if those three boxes are checked, then it is how hungry is said group and how appealing, you know, are those factors. and, you know, if somebody has those three pieces roughly in place and they say, would 250 do it?

You know, would 300 do it? I mean, the end of itself is not saying no to that, right? So, yeah. Yeah, I think that's where we're at, really, is, they have certainly, the demand is there and they've certainly found the right way to encourage the demand further. You know, the player pool stuff I think is interesting. I think the executive side and coaching side is a huge question. I think it's one that will get better as the league has grown, which is you'll have more veteran,

you'll have more people who have been around. The player side, I think is fascinating of like, it's the most widely played sport on the planet, but it's really hard to look at things and say, oh yeah, we're going to buy a team for $200 million, but like the salary cap has to be $5.2 million. That's just, that's the, that's to me the whole hold on this, which is you could go out and sign the best players in the world,

and obviously the hip rule helps with some of that, but like you could just keep adding to that, and you could go into Copa Libert Zores and UEFA Champions League and what we've seen from Temu Shuiwinga and China and stuff like that. And there's enough players to build however big a league you want it to be, but there has to be serious financial input. And it's very hard to look at and say, okay, that's being limited, but also Angel City is going to go for what they go for.

San Diego is going to go for what they go for. And now these numbers keep pushing up on the expansion side will not maybe on the player side as fast, which I think is really interesting to see. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And, you know, I think the player piece of that, right? I mean, it feels like a while ago, but like there's still open grievances about the hip rule from the players association. They've, you know, as I've reported, they are generally at this early stage opposed to the idea of a calendar flip. But in this case, the CBA is pretty clear that it is ultimately the league's decision. So, yeah, I think the player piece is going to be a big one to monitor. Yeah. Okay. Well, an endless amount of. stories, which means you have to go report on more stuff, I am sure. Follow ESPN for all of Jeff's reporting. Subscribe to the Equalizer if you do not for coverage on all of these stories as well.

Appreciate you taking the time to join us here and hopefully we'll do it again soon. Thanks for having me. Incredible conversation there with Jeff. Appreciate him taking the time. Now we get into, unfortunately, for him the big show. Kenza Dali, one of the best interviews I have ever done, Star Midfielder for San Diego. Kenza, thanks for being here. Thank you for inviting me. Let's start with right now we're coming out of an international break. So a little bit of time off. And I'm curious in your experience, what do you do in these breaks?

What has the last two weeks been like for you as an individual? Well, it's been really long, first of all, too long. I'm still kind of like discovering what is it to not go in national team because I've been all my career. So like, it's either you take this time to like complaining about not having a lot of player or having like a bad mood and like kind of like not being happy or you take this time to actually work on things that you don't have time to work during the season because the schedule downloaded. So this is what I pick. I'm working so hard in like getting like the rhythm still having the rhythm of. playing like regular game of like I try to have the same matching data than normal week and doing

a little bit of more strength. So literally like working on everything that I don't have time to work during the season. You have spoken a lot about your fitness and obviously we see the numbers where you stand in the league. I'm curious consistently how much of the work that you do for that side of your game is on your own individually or through the team? No, I do a lot. I'm trying to do everything related to football.

Like, I'm trying to do everything with the ball. Yeah, yeah. Because to me, like, it's such an old-school way to, like, run without the ball. Obviously, some of the part, like, in preseason, ask to be without the ball. But I'm trying to replicate exactly what I'm doing during the game as much as possible. And, yeah, I think the more than worse, fitness is with the ball. We're not asking anymore, having like a 45 minute running on your own that brings you

nothing as a football player, you know? Right. But no, it's demanding a lot. I'm working a lot on things during the week to be capable of doing that in the weekend. But when you say doing things with the ball, because this is something I've heard a lot of youth coaches talking about, which is their sessions now are purely built around all the exercise happens with the ball. Can you still do those on your own outside of training?

Like do you just set up drills where rather than sprinting it's, can I go get the ball half turn and then charge into space? No, I do everything in collaboration with my science coach here, which is Ben Young. He got so much experience. He's been inter Miami with the men's. I always say to him, you train with Messi. And now you train with me.

Now, yeah. Now, I always do with him. I really trust him because he's got so much experience that, like, I want to be fresh for the game. So by being fresh for the game, is like him controlling. How can I still work and be fresh for the weekend? But he's helping me a lot when I want to do extra, always with him. I'm the one to bother the most. our goalkeepers.

I always do exercise, either working on set pieces or otherwise on finishing. So yeah, I always ask for a goalkeeper and orderize our work as well with Ben. Or I work this morning, if I give you the recent example,

is that on scanning. So I work with Anya Midag, which was my teammates at Tesje and I was the IDP coach at San Diego. and it's scanning is like drill that like you need to check the color on the iPad before you turn and then you announce the color. Yeah, I'm 34-year-zone and I still do that drill when I was like, I start like this. But yeah, it's just the basic of like scanning and everything you're doing during the game, yeah.

You mentioned, you know, your age, how long you've been in this game, but every time I hear you talk, it does sound like you have this thirst and hunger, not just to keep playing, but to get better. What do you make of where your career has been and sort of what you still want to accomplish? A lot. A lot. My first thing that is coming to my mind right now is winning something in America.

I really want to do it. As a French player as well, we know a lot that I've done it. So I want to be a part of that. I want to, yeah, I'm so hungry. I'm actually the same desire that like I'm celebrating my 90th season in professional. And I honestly, I signed pro at 16 and I'm 34 and I still, no, assigned for Evanelli actually. I still want more. I just love this game.

I think this game change every year is different. And more the time goes, more I feel so grateful to still be. playing at this level to still enjoy you, to still like, I feel really lucky. So I even want more, yeah. Let's talk about the enjoyment, because for us on the outside, the enjoyment is the style. San Diego, you tune in, you know the ball's going to move, you know there's going to be connection. What has it been like playing inside of that style and sort of knowing like when San Diego

arrives, everyone kind of expects this? Yeah. Yeah, we figure out now that everyone has an expectation. for San Diego, but as I say to the team is a good thing. You want expectation, you want a little bit of pressure, you want standards. We always say that we want to have our identity. And everyone that's being around football knows how hard it is to build an identity. It's the hardest things in football is to build an identity and a culture.

It doesn't take one or two years. It takes more than that. We take a lot of proud of the way we want to play. more than the result, like the performance matter most than the result to us. Even if at the end of the day you need result, but we believe that true performances at one point, you're going to have result. So, yeah, it's a really nice football to play, first of all, I think, and to watch as well. So I've always been attracted and that really matter to me the way you play. I don't want to win by kick and run.

I've never seen football like that. I have a really romantic vision about football. I want beautiful football. I want like a collective football not based on an individual. But yeah, I really enjoy it. And I'm really proud to found the team that, yeah, that does that. But even when there is that vision and that goal, sometimes it gets hard. Like we have seen teams that have these stated goals.

and then the game's against you and the backlines playing long balls and it's hard to readjust. You are a leader in this group. How do you in those moments calm this team back down and sort of infuse that confidence back into a lot of the young players around you that, no, this is what we do. And if we continue to it, we can win. All I ask from them all the time is to be brave. I would rather have a player that do a mistake than someone that hide. And I always say that to, for example,

Kimmy or Lorina that plays around me, I say, I say, first of all, if during the week I don't see you doing mistake, it means you're wasting your time. Like, the week is made to do mistake. If you have a successful week by doing, like, 100% passes of success, success passes,

like, I'm not interested in that. Like, take, risk. Like literally this morning I had this conversation with Kimi, we had the jury in position and I'm like, your last option should be your winger, the fullback. I say you need to play to add verticality into your game. Take risk. Like I'm really into risk in football. Because I do believe that when you take risk, there's a high reward when you works. And and yeah, any, any game that we play as the team. team to be brave in possession. And if we do mistake, we do mistake. Like at the end of the day,

the importance of a game is to score, to score one goal more than the opponent. So if they score, we will score one more. But like, at least we are us and we play how away and like, yeah, we not hide. And yeah, this is, this is the things I'm really, really, I would rather lose the game by being brave than park the bus in front of my my goal. and just defend that I'm really not seeing football like that. Well, luckily, it hasn't been an issue for San Diego. You mentioned some of the young players around you. One of them is Lorena Fazer, who has stepped in

and huge responsibility moving halfway across the world at her age. What have you seen from her? What makes her special and sort of what do you see in her career? Well, Lorna and me have a special relationship because when I was at PSG playing Champions League, She was a kid of the academy that was my mascot. Oh, wow. She was hiding in the training ground to take picture with the pro,

which is, I know her really well since she's like 12. And she haven't changed, like her little face haven't changed, which is crazy to me. But yeah, she was one of the mascot at PSJ. And I know her mom really well. I know her parents really well So yeah It's kind of like

A different relationship That's just a teammate Her mom Trust me She's my roommate Because her mom was like You stay with Kenza But

I think I think Lorina is so smart In her game She's the type of player That as soon as she feels the confidence From her teammates around her And the coach She step up

She has like unbelievable technique. She's kind of a lot. She played forward. She's not a type of midfield to just bounce the ball. She's capable of breaking lines. And she has so much potential still to reach. It's just so easy to play with her because we have the same background in terms of like what type of football we practice. So it's always easier when you see the football the same way.

in that position when you appear on the pitch is really important and yeah me and her like really build a relationship and he didn't take one or two months like we were literally doing a lot of clip together video together

to see how we're working together and yeah it's as well a young player that really listen she always want to take and ask questions and so yeah, I really, I really enjoy playing with her. And I think she's been really good this season.

Been incredible all season. But I'm fascinated because you mentioned PSG and obviously the academy ranks, pushing through the professional ranks, which we don't have that structure right now fully in NWS. And yet, San Diego has been like the youth developer and they're giving teenagers opportunities or players coming straight out of college who are scoring game winners. What do you see from that sort of,

work that San Diego has done and maybe the differences or gaps that a Europe could take from NWSL or NWSL could take from Europe. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of shame, you know, that USA doesn't have academy. Because I think the gap, like, you need to be ready to play professional. And in Europe is a bit easier because you have that time or adjustment to the academy, which here you don't have this time. And I think I'm really glad I had this time to like work on my basic and still have a lot of game time because I was competing with the academy.

So I feel like a country like USA should have academy in the women's game. With the potential as well that like this country has in terms of numbers of people that are kids that wants to play football, it should already have like every academy in my opinion. Instead of like having. a love that's the new things in football that I'm fighting against is like kids are doing one to one with coach like that's not going to bring you anything because then you're doing like 100 sessions with a coach that you pay so much money for but you don't know how to play with people around you

because you've been doing individual session like when you're a kid or a teenager you know how to learn like you you learn how to play with people around you and that's how that creates as well this kind of like individual sports into a collective sports which is it's a shame i think um but yeah obviously the academy like allowed you to work on a lot of things and i think san diego the young player are quite lucky and this is what i said to them they have like amazing coach around them so if you take the experience or aniam it tag or if you take like beck it with I think is amazing with young players. She's doing an amazing job and she's good at seeing the potential into

player and then you go Jonas that like it really take time with them. Which in Europe, when you're a young player, you don't have a lot of game time. Like sometimes you're kind of like just here to train with San Diego. If you're good, you're going to play. Yeah. And it's not just like things. that we say we say if you're good you play no no we prove it but at the same time I think we got some amazing talent at Sondigo I always say it in every interview I always

say at San Diego like honestly when you take mail that mail is just different Kimi is just different as well and Trinity Armstrong I think with this three players that are so young. They're amazing already. And I think they're going to be in five years time, I see them literally going with this, the first team of USA maximum. Yeah, they're going to be amazing player.

I mean, we have seen from obviously Mel and Kimmy, especially in the first team already, right? Like what they've brought to this group and there is this young energy in this San Diego squad. And it feels like maybe a lot of that works for what you talked about, which is maybe they don't even know they're taking risks because they don't know any different. And it feels like the club kind of has this ethos that they play with.

Exactly. We encourage them to like take risk. And I will always, always say to them like, I would never say to Mel play in two touch. Like when you got this quality, you shouldn't play in two touch, you know. or say to Kimi like you need to stay in the square and you don't move

like I said to them you need to work on what you're not good at but you need to work on what you're really good at as well at the same time we kind of like forget that you're going to make it through the things you're good at yeah so I think like today with the football

that like are so tactical that like you I always have this debate with Jonas like I always say like you can't control everything and he's really good at it and we found the way to say like having freedom in inside the structure and it has to be you count like you have a team that are so rigid today that are missing so much of the potential of the player which like as San Diego we have a structure but we give freedom to player. We give Dojinia freedom to go 1 v1, like 10 times out of 11, you know?

We give the freedom of Melanie having like 100 step over. You know, you give that freedom, you know, because they're good at it. So why would you not? So you can be rigid, you know? And that's why we got these flows because today, like at the end of the day, like, it's good to detect it. but like trust your player to win the game, you know? When we, before we got on, you said, I want to talk football and I promise we will.

But while talking about it with you, I'm sure you get asked this a lot. Do you want to coach? Do you want to go into governance? Like, you're talking about the issues with youth development. You're talking about debates with head coaches about tactics and structure. You're talking about watching video with young players. Like, is that anything that you've even thought of yet? Well, every day I have my general manager tell me that I will be an amazing coach

and I have Jonas that telling me that I will be an amazing coach. I always got that. Even the young player here when I talk to them and they're laughing at me, they're like, we got a coach playing in her team. Because like I just care so much of this game that I think this is an amazing game that like we can't miss like we can't forget the love and why we start it's not because we're professional sometimes because we have these things of like having results and and doing it every day you take it for granted and you forget like that it's an amazing job and and we play a game

that is beautiful but I don't know if I want to be a coach I have my license I did my license but I did it just because I was like, we never know in life. But, you know, when you play all your life, you kind of like seek for stability a little bit. And when you're a coach, you don't have stability. You move around the road and I'm like, do I want that? But then at the same time, I'm doing right now my university diploma, I'm in a business school for literally doing the diploma.

for being a general manager. But again, I don't know if it's what I want. And I have Cam Yachton here that told me, like, the year you want to retire, you tell me and I take you as my assistant. But I don't know. Actually, right now, I hope, like, I will still play. As soon as my body feels good and I don't want to do as well the year that is like too much when you can't move anymore and you look bad.

But right now it's actually not a question for me because, but yeah, I always get the coach things. But do I want that because like it's not an easy job. It's really not an easy job. Yeah. Well, working for Cammy wouldn't be. Cammy's doing million dollar deals here and there. Players in, players out. It's always movement with her.

But you talked about stability. You signed the extension. Talked a little bit about who reached out, who started that conversation first. the club were you and sort of what was behind it for you to make sure that you stayed another year at San Diego? Well, I got clubs that came for me, American club actually, and the one English club that made offer for me and then that was a conversation with San Diego. I didn't want to live.

I personally didn't want to live. But at the same time, this industry is a business. So if club made offer for you, maybe you get someone that's going to tell you, maybe you need to leave. You know, we take the money. That obviously wasn't even a question for San Diego. And literally, when all the clubs came,

I sat with Cammy. and Kamie told me that like she really value me and she really don't see me living and that what I was thinking and I was like well if it's clear for you is clear for me so it was a really quick conversation and then we decided to sign an extension to just like kind of like say like listen we value you and I think that was really nice for my club you know at, yeah, even if I think I deserve it, sometimes often, often in this industry, you don't get what you deserve. So when you do, it feels nice.

Yeah, it was great to see. It was also, I think, exciting for fans, obviously at the same time as Delphine Kaskarino has a huge year last year and she goes back to Europe. Someone, obviously, you've played alongside, had great success with last year. what has it been like moving on from having her around and not only what she brought on the field, which is I would argue as electric as any player on the planet, but also off the field as a culture and as a friend.

Well, I was literally on the phone with her like 10 minutes before we start. Tell her to call. We can all talk. Literally on the phone with her 10 minutes ago. Well, Delphin for me, I always say it like she's world class. you don't replace that. Like you got five players like her in the world of football. So you don't replace that.

That would be a lie to say, oh, we replace Delphine. That would really be a lie. At the same time, you need to respect the desire of the player. People kind of forget that France is nine hours different time. Nine hours is a full day. So you kind of like feel lonely, even if you're surrounded. And I completely understand.

So you need to respect that. And I think the club done an amazing job of respecting it. And to be fair, as we spoke with Camille, like you would never win. If a player don't feel good, you won't get the best of the player. And then we're all losing. But she's, yeah, we don't replace that. But at the same time, it's a good challenge.

Because, like, you're like, are you a team that is capable? of not based on individuals and make anyone playing this team look good. It's so easy to say, but it's so hard to be done, like really, really, really hard. And then you got like the form of player as well.

So like, do Dina step up? And you kind of like take advantage of that. And then, yeah, you give more space to the player. And that's how you manage that. like collectively and I think we adapt until now there's a long way to go but I think we kind of like change a little bit how we were playing to adapt in on the quality of each individual that play in this team and yeah it's it's the job of the coach to like of the coach of the GM to like

found profile that will allow this to don't feel a massive gap but you will always feel the miss of a player like that is the reality. You mentioned there's a long way to go. Last year you were the darling of the league, the first half of the season with the style you play the success you had, which was a bit unexpected. Again, this year, what did you learn in the second half of the year last year that you think as a group you can use this year to maybe not have that fall off like you did in 2025?

That was you done the week before, doesn't matter. So in this, I say that to players after game as well. I say on the day of the game, you can enjoy the victory. It has to be you need to enjoy it. You need to celebrate. You need to take this moment. But when you arrive on a Tuesday is the past. Football have short memory, really short memory.

So like, what you're done before doesn't matter. You need to like go again and go again and be resilient. And especially in this league. you can be top of the table for six months and job so badly after it. So what we've done right now is really, really good. Really good. And I feel we put some of really our best performance. For example, I think our game against Portland was probably one of the best games

has seen us play since I'm in San Diego. But yeah, that means nothing. Top of the table today is, first of all, we got one game in the hand. And I'm like, oh, five games. Like, what is it? But I saw my team, the young player, like, top of the table, like the rookies. After Boston, top of the table. I look at that.

Like, top of the what? Like, what's this table? After five games, you're talking to me about table. I have no interest. I'm not even looking at it. I can't tell you who's third, who's fourth, who's nine. because that means nothing. And even more in this league

that people awards more the playoff than the league, which I would never understand. But yeah, yeah, you need to take as much as many points you can because we saw last season that. Some of the team do recruitment in July and are a totally different team. Some have a really good run. And then they go into playoff

and they performed the best. So in this league, I don't make any plans. I'm like game by after game, after game, after game, and then we see where we are around. I will probably look at the table in end of September. Before that, I have no interest of the table. Okay. Then unfortunately, we check every week because we talk about it every week.

That's your job. Yeah, I know. We'll try and follow your example. on that one. But speaking of recruitment, Katerina Makario, joining this club, hometown player coming home. And I think one of the things that's exciting but unknown outside is she can kind of do everything. We have seen her in her career from her position, played in a way that very few can, can take players 1v1, can go out in the channels, can play back to goal, can be a finisher, can be a creator. How do you, how has she in training and how do you

see her fitting into this group of what is it maybe of all of that that she needs to bring most for this team? First, we're really glad that we have her. I was, I kind of knew, and I was like, because her and me have the same agent. So I knew he was on the table. And yeah, I was like, I always say to Camille, go for it, please. Yeah, I'm really excited. Obviously, Katarina is a big name in football, but, and an amazing plan.

So obviously when you want to play with the best, I want to play with the best. So I'm super excited and I'm so glad she joined us and we really are an easy group to come in. We're good people. We welcome her like the best way possible and Katarina, I really didn't know her. I play against her but I never met her, never really speak to her. And the first day she arrived. arrive. I felt like she always been here. Like literally I felt like we knew each other. Obviously we had a love friend in common because she played in Lyon and I'm from Lyon and she played in England as well.

And we kind of like, yeah, play like in the same league and we feel like we knew each other from a long time and she's an amazing human being, really easy, really humble. And fate, directly to the locker room, like literally. It feels like she's been here all the time. So, yeah, we're super excited to see her play with us. She can play every position and we can use her everywhere. And, yeah, you have a player with this quality. I don't even know what position she's going to play with us,

but I take everything. So, yeah, I'm super excited. And I say to her, we have really, long conversation because Katarina loves football the same way I do. So we kind of debate on like champion segment game or like things like that. She's a Real Madrid fan and I'm a PSJ fan. So we kind of speak about like everything with Kat and yeah, I'm really glad she's here. And I said to her she's going to enjoy it with us.

She's a player that love the ball in her feet like me. she loves combining she loves all of that and I think we we are the perfect team for her and I really mean that and yeah I can't wait for her to join us on the pitch in in the league games we're excited to see it we're excited to see the season continue I got to ask you this I've never I don't know that I've ever asked us in an interview before but so you love watching the game you love talking the game we heard about some maybe the youth development stuff we don't love what do you love right now in the game of football what do you enjoy most, what he has you most excited, maybe, whether it's tactical, whether it's the development

of some player, what is it? I think because I'm a PSJ fan, I watch a lot of PSJ, and I'm so happy that it seemed like PSJ won the Champions League last season because it shows that, like, when you have a collective, you can win. And I think they played the best football in the world last season, and it's kind of refreshing. I feel like I hate the new football. It's so individual. There's one thing I hate and everyone knows that are working with me is statistic.

I hate statistics from the bottom of my heart. Like as much as I love football, I hate statistic. But you talk about data when you talk about... Fitness. Like I've heard... Yes. Fitness is definitely can tell you if a player is consistent in her training. how many times a player train per week,

how many distance she cover, how many high speed running, how many, yes, sprint, all of that is factual. But you don't want to hear take-ons and big chances created or any of that? No, no, because first of all, was an assist, like maybe the past before the assist is better than the assist.

Sometimes an assist, like, I don't know, The goal of Melanie against Chicago, one of the most beautiful I've seen live, she does the whole work. Like you can't. Right, double step over, curled shot, yeah. Like, she literally done, so like, was an assist. It's a past, like, you know, like, or like, I don't know, like, even like, I don't even know how they count, like, expecting assists.

What's expecting assists? Or, like, successful pass. Like, I literally say to Lorina and Kimi, in the midfield, if you got more than 80% of success of passing, for me, you've done nothing in the game. Yeah, you're recycling possession. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, if anyone should have over 90%, 95% of success

passes is the center back. This is the only position on the pitch for me that should be high rate in that. But like all of this statistic around like successful passes, maybe I do the right pass and you don't move quicker or you of your run is not good or like a cross can be so good. And the nine is doing the wrong movement. And then it's considering it has a bad cross. So I'm like, all of this statistic are like, you judging. a performance as assist and goal.

Maybe you have the worst game of your career and you have an assist because you do a pass. You know? Yeah. So like, it's literally when I speak to Ludmila, when she arrived, I said to her, Ludmila, take off this pressure of scoring goal. Last season, we got like 10 different players that score and we don't value only goals.

We value, I really do value. And I'm sure Jonas did, and he always said, values the pressing you're doing. You're the first player to press, to oriented the press. But like, fans doesn't see that. They don't see what work. Like, literally the goal we score against Utah

when the Utah player, player square passed straight to the dinner and the dinner. This is an assist for Mila because she forced the mistake. Right. You know? But in reality, there is no statistic. But if you know football

and you know what we're asking for her, it's literally exactly what we're asking and what we value. But no one see that. She helps the team so much into the pressing of the ball of occupy the centerback to create space for the midfielder. People think she's just standing in the high line. No, no, no.

She's doing things for me to have space to carry the ball. Like, if people are going to see that, no. Because people are going to judge your own statistics. And I'm so against that, so against that. So, yeah, I always say to the players here, like, we don't want, we don't care of who is doing the last pass. We don't care of who's scoring the goal. We care of how we play together.

And take off all the media or the social media or the highlight, like this whole thing is like to the right pass, the right pressing. And yeah, so it's refreshing to see like a, team like PSJ to like really play as a team and have a coach to say like is no one is more important than than others and like is the way we play it's like being humble into a collective and don't think you irreplaceable because no one is irreplaceable in this game and and yeah it's i really value like the team efforts i hate individual things this was a great answer this is a great conversation I could do this all day, but I want to let you go.

I know you got a lot of other things to do. But I appreciate you taking the time. We're excited to continue watching you and San Diego out there on the field. A big week coming up, three games in a week, a couple trips, some altitude, a lot of new American experiences for you and all of that. It continues to get better and better. But I appreciate you taking the time and we'll talk to you again, hopefully very soon. Thank you very much. It was nice to meet you.

Well, that's all for us here today. An unbelievable episode. thank you once again for the time to Kenza Dali and thank you so much for the time from Jeff Kenza, whatever she does next, coaching, broadcasting, opening up a coffee shop, whatever it is.

You can guarantee it'll be a success. You can guarantee that you have a supporter and a follower in me. Cannot wait to get her back on the show. I would buy tickets to a debate between her and Yonis Ida-Vall. And it sounds like there is a comfortable culture of that in San Diego and maybe the wave just need to set up a live stream and just have a Kenzi Jonas football debate because that feels like something that would entrap all of us. And it would be one of the best things that happens all year.

Well, we've got a lot of big shows still coming up. We're going to recap the MLS weekend with Tom on Thursday. We've got a USM&T segment that we're doing every single week heading into the World Cup with Matt Doyle. We'll be back next week with your MLS weekend recap. Jordan will be back with me as we're back into NWS. games. So we will have all of the coverage of those games for you talking about some of the biggest stories. We've got midweek action coming up in NWSL as well. So we'll have some preview work there for you. And we will continue to have more big interviews that we're going to be

rolling out there in some really cool new places as we go forward. So thank you to all of you for listening. Thank you for taking the time. I will talk to again very, very soon.