SoccerWise - Kickback College Soccer Special: Sasho Cirovski(Maryland) & Brian Wiese(Georgetown)

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

The nature of college sports has changed a lot over the last few years, and college soccer is getting ready for its makeover. Two legends of the game in Brian Weise (Georgetown) & Sasho Cirovski (Maryland) sit down with David to talk through where we stand. They talk about what college soccer can be, the changes necessary to take it there, and how important it is to the landscape of the American game.

Well, I am so excited about this conversation coming up. We have talked about it on our show over the last year, a lot here at Soccerwise, about college soccer, the future of college soccer, where it sits in development, and where it could go and figure no better people to talk to about it than two true experts. which we have on the call here, head coach of the University of Maryland, Sasha Sarovsky, and head coach of Georgetown Hoya men's soccer. Brian Weiss combined four national championships. We have 12 college cups and 29 conference titles.

So the two of you have been doing pretty well and might know a thing or two about college soccer. Well, what we have in common is we love the game. We love college soccer. We believe in it. and I think we have that in common. We're also very good friends and have established a great rivalry over the past decade or so here. Yeah, a lot of those numbers, sadly, go to the Terps with Sosh. I'm trying to catch them on.

You're nice not to break up those numbers by the two schools with this. But, yeah, we've known each other for a heck of a long time. And our games are, in my opinion, some of the best games in college soccer every year. We had another great one just, what, two weeks ago. We were on the wrong side of it, unfortunately, this year. But it was a heck of a fun game. And, you know, this seems to be part of the course when we play. Well, you're both the winningest coaches in your program's history.

So we don't have to break anything up. The reality is the success is there. Brian, we do go way back. Do you remember the game in 1991? It's actually, Sash, 1992. So yes, I do remember it well. Okay. My first, and so just so you guys know, when Sasha was, Les had wonderful hair and Les Gray, I was my first ever college game that I played as a goalkeeper at Dartmouth with Bobby Clark was the coach, my that group.

Sasha was the head coach at the University of Hartford, and it was the opening game of the year, and we went down to Hartford, and we got cuffed. We lost four to one. So my first ever game as a goalkeeper was picking the ball out of the entire time. And so, Sasha, I still have some PTSD. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up, though, making sure that that everyone could remember. I was going to start with how long have you all known each other. So there we go. We get our answer and everyone can do the math themselves.

But let's go back to over the last time you have done this, Sasha, let's start with you. And just the big question, you know, you have coached as a head coached. since the early 90s. How has college soccer changed in your time and how has it remained the same? Yeah, I mean, you know, college soccer was a very important piece of the American landscape

and was sort of the glue that maybe kept the fire burning in development here when we had the dead period from, you know, 84 when NASL folded until really 96 when MLS started. We had a number of professional leagues, a number of indoor leagues.

I played in some of them. but there was really almost a 10-year dead period of professional soccer and really college really picked up the pieces there and and you know for a while we you know college soccer was the thing you know our championships in Davidson and Richmond were sellouts all the best players played in college but then as we evolved you know with the growth of the 94 World Cup establishment of MLS they became more opportunities for young players to have different places to go, whether it was to Europe or go to MLS. And, you know, we still obviously, you know, did a great job in developing young talent. But then the global landscape has shifted.

You know, like I said, now we have, I think, between MLS and USL, about 50 professional teams or maybe more than that now, you know, there was zero then. But what's, what hasn't changed for college soccer, unfortunately, is during that time period, we had a little over 200 schools and we still have 200 schools. So we have not evolved and changed and grown in the same capacity as the game around us has and the opportunities for players. Having said that, you know, there has been growth in college. You've seen the attendances, the facilities, the resources, but we've also had to adjust to the changing landscape, you know, conference realignment. You know, I started in the ACC and now I'm in the Big Ten.

there's no longer a pack 12 there's uh you know just so many changes and we've got to continually evolve but i think the game um right now is at a very high level um the average age of the college player has grown now from you know what maybe was 1920 to 22 23 um it's it's very professional um you know i started coaching in 93 i was one coach with one part-time assistant that got paid $2,700. Now I have three full-time assistance. So I think I think there's been a lot of growth in different ways. And I still think there's more opportunity for us to grow. And we'll talk about that, I'm sure, in the future. Coach Reese, you mentioned playing at Dartmouth, then you've gone and worked across the country on the West Coast at Stanford, one of the great programs, and now back

on the East Coast with Georgetown. What have you seen in that entire sort of run of the different ways programs are run and the way it has developed or stayed the same. Yeah, I mean, a lot of things can be echoed from what Sasha said. I don't need to repeat a whole lot of anything. You spot on with a lot of that. I think, you know, the interesting thing is, is, you know, how the demographic has changed in the college game and why it's changed that way, right? So it's a lot of the combinations of the things that Sasha was talking about,

the MLS, the professional league is, these, these, these, these, uh, MLS teams have a lot of pressure to sign homegrown. They have a lot of pressure to, to, um, sort of behave like a European model in, in some things. And, you know, I think, uh, college soccer is, um, is a huge resource still, um, but is, it, it needs to find its place within the, uh, the mindset of, of the pro ranks, um, to really, to really make it the best use of who we are and what we are and what we do um and you know and as a result of that you know because i think there is a little bit of a lack of investment in in the college game from our own domestic

professional structure a lot of colleges are you know it's just saying the average age is what 22 23 which means there are players that are older than that and um those players aren't all that interesting to mLS teams you know the players who are 24 25 i mean they they start thinking these guys start getting too old when they're 21 sometimes right so um You know, we've evolved as a collective to having older players, to having more internationals. The level is very good, right? And, and, but I think, you know, how we fit is an interesting piece. I think we used to be a very, very critical part of the evolution of, to be fair, our national team, right?

And now we still are relevant, but, you know, people will look at us as like, well, maybe that's not the optimal way of going. when there's a lot of pathways for player development. College soccer is a uniquely American thing and it's not a bad thing, right? And I think that's what people have to sort of get their head around is that because we have. And I've said this for years and years and years, and I still believe this, if we get the cooperation of U.S. soccer and MLS, et cetera, et cetera, that college soccer, having college soccer, having coaches and programs like Sasha and Maryland that produce pros that have competitive training environments, that have competitive training environments, that have competitive. competitive games that know how to teach the game, to know how to develop character, et cetera. These are the reasons why we're going to be competitive for World Cups down the road

if we're utilized in a way because there's no one else in the world that can do it, how we do it here. For anyone not watching you, you are sitting in front of a wall of jerseys of pros who have come out of your program, and there are many domestic players on that wall. There are some who went via the Superdraft. There are some who went into USL first and then MLS, and there are some who signed as homegrown.

What are the conversations like right now when you go and recruiting and how maybe has MLS next and the development of pro academies for some of these domestic teams change the way your job operates or the convoes you're having with young players? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a very inexact way to answer that question because it changes all the time. I mean, you know, I love the international players I have. I have 10 of them. them right now, which is more than I ever thought I would have. And they're terrific young men, and they bring so much value to the team, both on the field, off the field. And they're great students, great players. And many of them will go out and play professionally, either MLS or USL. But one of the reasons I have so many international players now is, you know, I would have so many top American players who are youth national team players or, you know, in the, in the MLS homegrown system. And, you know, I have them signed sometimes for six months, a year, a year and a half. And then two

once before a season starts, they're signed a homegrown deal because there is a lot of pressure for the clubs to, quote, unquote, keep them in their environment and sometimes don't even trust the development they'll get in college. So that's been a source of frustration, to be honest with you. And then I end up, you know, while I'm on vacation in June or July, recruiting international players. And thankfully, we've been able to bring some good ones. So that's been a little bit of a challenge. But we understand that's what we signed up for. So no one's complaining and certainly happy for those young men to get the opportunity to play. But I think sometimes the experience and the development that we have in college has become marginalized by the professional ranks.

And in many years, the national team programs. There was a while where, you know, U.S. soccer was telling kids, don't go to college. If you're in college, you won't not play on a national team. Thankfully, that's changed. Thankfully, the new leadership. at U.S. soccer now is shown great respect for the college experience and obviously trying to help us modernize and evolve the college experience, which I think is just a wonderful thing. So I think that we've sort of been in this spot where we're, you know, we're important,

but maybe we're a little marginalized, maybe we're not a little bit respected in terms of what we can do. And of course, some of that is grounded in good reason because of the limitations we've had. I also think, David, there's been a real misconception of exactly how much time we get to spend with the players in college. I think most people think all we do is work for two and a half months and then we go on vacation for eight months. And that's not true. We're working with the players five, six days a week during the full year. And we're helping develop them both technically, tactically, psychologically, and they also grow physically. We let them grow into their, you know, man bodies and, and, and, and, and, and, and when they, when they do go

out into the, into the, into the MLS world, the USL world, you know, they're prepared professionals. And, and, and, and they're great locker room and their great representatives in the community and their leaders in, you know, in those areas. So I think there's that part of the development and the growth you get in college that's, that hasn't been really looked at, um, uh, with, with, what the value it represents. Coach, Weiss, you have one of the domestic heavy rosters and have at Georgetown for a while as you're interacting with these MLS academies, whether it's to recruit players or just, you know, going out to watch the teams and interact with the coaches.

What's the conversations like about the way you can help them or what the academy structures want their players to go on and do? Well, yeah, I mean, we do have a pretty heavily, domestic roster in general. Our average age is probably 20, right, 1920 in our group. And to be honest, for us to be competitive nationally, we have to have our old players have to become 21, 22, right? If we don't have our American kids become 21 or 22, we won't ever compete against,

you know, the model that like Marshall is really, you know, projected and Vermont seized on and a lot of schools lately have been very successful with. We can't compete with that unless we get old. So we have a real interest in players that understand the value of college. We know that some are going to want to go early to go pro in the right situations from a soccer point of view. But, you know, all these guys on my wall, all these guys got their degree. You don't go on the wall if you don't get your degree while you try to be a pro. So that messaging for us is very much that.

But, you know, I think a point that Sasha made is one that is critically overlooked by a lot of people is. the maturity that these kids get as they grow from age 17, 18, 21, just every human does this. But to be able to sort of go through that and evolve and be able to handle some things maybe a little bit better, I think is hugely important. And all of our players that have gone pro that are having real successful runs at things, you can start naming guys like Paul Rothwax having a dream sort of season with Seattle right now. Now, Sarwaski is in with the first team. You go through any of our players that are in contracts to three of their MLS or professional careers,

they're all the kids who went to college for three or four years. Any of the ones who left after one or two years are sort of struggling in the lower levels. They started off in the MLS. And the maturity levels needed to endure that and manage that are real. And I'll say this, not to totally diverge off of it, but I think one of the really issues with the sort of national team's golden generation of those players, is that they're unbelievably talented players that maybe are missing a little bit of that maturity development because they got put into pro environments, incredibly young ages. And some have handled really well.

And I think others, it's maybe been something lacking for them. And I think that's heard them. Yeah. I think it's been a conversation, obviously, a lot of people are having of what was great about the national team. And as we've taken steps forward, technically, it feels like we've lost some things and we've had conversations on this show about that gap as well as there's that feeling of grit that some people think has lost. And I think some of that is the ownership of your career and the way some players now are more told which way to go throughout their career, whether it's through academy structures or agents rather than finding it themselves. And we had Jay DeMered on the show a few weeks ago and, you know, he went out and figured out himself. And

obviously it's an extreme case of that. Let's talk, though, about, about- And a shorter answer, sorry, I mean, a shorter answer to your question is some of the MLS clubs, I know Sasha experiences just as much as any of us do as well, is the clubs that really communicate well with us are the ones that do it, to understand what they're getting from players, right? So, you know, when we have conversations about, I'll give Jesse Marshall out credit with Alex Muel, who's now with National, but he's a homegrown for Red Bull. He called me every single year after the season and asked how Alex was doing when he was the head coacher of the Red Bull. Nobody does that regularly.

But as a result, he took Alex from us at the right time for Alex to be successful at if he had taken him year one or your two, I don't think I don't think Alex would have succeeded. And I think Jesse recognized that, but his ability to communicate with us. And there's other GMs out there that do a decent job of that. And those are the ones that, you know, our players who have had those experiences where there's real proper understanding of where the kid is and what they, those are the ones you do it. But there's the volume of MLS organizations who have. will just take a kid without any idea about having a conversation with Sasha,

about his player or with me, about it is incredible. And those players a lot of times don't work out. Coach? Yeah, no, look, I think, as I said before, I think that the smartest MLS teams will look at college because they have homegrown rights to their players anyways, and we'll send them to college to grow, mature,

to also play meaningful games. You know, one of the things that you get in the college experience that you don't get, in my view, at the MLS Next Pro level, is you've got to play games to win. And you play under the lights, you play with expectations. You know, it matters. Like, it matters. You play with fans.

You play with fans. It matters. And I think that's an important part of, you know, what kind of role and how do you fit, what kind of a leader can you become on a team in big moments and things. And I think, you know, you know, we played the other day in front of 5,000 fans, you know, played in front of almost 3,000 at Georgetown. I mean, you know, meaningful game. I mean, every ball is contested.

Everything matters. And that's a great way for these teams to see which players can handle it. And you're right. Yeah, I've had coaches that with a lot of respect that would call me and say, do you think they're ready? And we'll say, yeah, we think they're ready. I mean, you know, if we feel players ready and a player wants to go, we're not sitting here strapping him to a chair and trying to, you know, you know, bullshit him or lie to him, you know.

Well, we're here to help develop and have the kids realize their dreams, but we also want them to understand what they have here and what they might be given up because, you know, I know a phrase that Brian has used that I respect and I use as well. It's, you know, these four years are for the next 40 years of your life. And you can say that could be three years or whatever. But every good player that's went to college has gotten better. I don't know of any player that was a good player that went to college that got worse.

You know, I just don't know of anyone, you know. So, and maybe there's out there, but maybe they, you know, they wouldn't have made it anyway. But there's too many players, though, that bypass college that never make it. Yeah. That they get lost. They don't get the minutes. They don't get the experience of going away from home, of growing, of learning, of developing. a, you know, a difference of friend group from around the world,

relationships for life. These things are really valuable things that I treasure. And, you know, it's one of the reasons I've been in the game for so long. Let's talk about some of the roadblocks, though, I think that people feel from the outside, and I know you have both talked about publicly about the place college soccer can play in development. And a big one is the schedule.

And, you know, the condensed schedule in the fall for players, you get an injury, you miss five games potentially. and it's not as indicative to the way the sport is played. I think globally there were steps taken towards this. Sasha, let's start with you. You've worked on this for roughly, what, 18 years, 20 years. Where does that stand? And sort of what is the driving force behind that being maybe the number one thing to fall

to start to move the college game forward? Yeah, the playing and practice season of college soccer is very antiquated. It's archaic. It has not changed since the 1960s. It's an outgrowth of an old scholastic model where players played three sports during a year, coaches coach three sports, and hasn't changed. And the NCAA has become so institutionalized over the last, you know, 80, 100 years that it's almost built to stay the same. So, you know, 2013, 2014, the opportunity started to look like there might be a window to make some changes. So we began the process to attack changing the playing and practice season.

and we made a lot of progress for five or six years, and we thought we were actually going to get a vote right before COVID hit, and we thought we had the votes, and we might pass the model. You know, we have 25 games schedule. We play 17 games that count, and we play eight games that don't count. We play three exhibitions and five in the spring. We still use that as a development, and we found a way to still make it work and meaningful for the players,

but obviously it's antiquated. It's not an ideal schedule. You know, the fall is way too compressed. So we wanted to address two things. We want to make sure the championship had a chance to grow in the springtime because we feel like a championship in the month of May would be wonderful. We had a small experience of it during COVID, and we had a great atmosphere between Marshall and Indiana,

sold out crowd down in Kerry. You know, people were excited to watch that championship. So that's one part of it. The second is deal with decompression. We play a game every 3.2 days right now, on average. With the new model, we're going to play a game every six days. We also then have opportunities to reschedule games, to have players with injuries, to bounce back and not lose a whole year.

There's so many positives out of all of that. So those are two things that were the driving forces, and we're still working at it. We're still working on it. We've added one more component now recently, because over the last four or five years have been a few other earthquakes in college sports. And there's been the realignment. You know, the Big Ten went coast to coast.

The ACC went coast to coast. The Big East went to the big Midwest now. So we've had so many conferences, you know, in the American Athletic Conference, they don't bust to one game. They fly to every game. So there's been a strong push recently with the help of this next-gen committee that J.T. Batson and Emily Kosler put together, Dan Healford, which has been a real key figure in putting the together group. My president is on the committee.

We've got ADs. And there's been a serious discussion. about regionalization right now. So the combination of a college sort of split season, academic year model that we've talked about, 21st century model, whatever we want to call it, to take decompression out to grow the championship, and potentially look at regionalizing games

to create more rivalries, to reduce costs. This is where we want to go. Now, having said all that, the House settlement just got approved this summer. the new governance model just got approved on September 1st, and that's two days ago. So there is still a path that we have to navigate and find how we can get to the finish line. But I think there is more openness now to some changes with the way the NCAA has restructured. So I am more optimistic than I've ever been, except for maybe on the eve of 2020, right before COVID.

hit where I thought we had the votes. But we haven't given up. So I'm excited about the future. Brian, tell us a little bit as you talk to other coaches around and think about it yourself, how this now affects the way you operate, the way your team can operate, and what college soccer looks like for players going forward, if this were to come into place. Yeah, I think it's pretty critical. I mean, Sasha has been working on this for a long, long time. for this fall and spring model for a lot of reasons. I think the reason why I'm very dogged on this thing passing is because of where the college game is in general and the finances of everything and the appetite for athletic directors and presidents maybe to be the instigators of this because of because of what's happened with the House settlement. I mean, there's real money now that schools are pumping.

I mean, they've always pumped real money. Now it's like real, real money that they're pumping into football and basketball, right? They have to the revenue share. It's just getting more and more pressure filled. And so the regionalization concept, I think, is a no-brainer. I think it's almost a foregone conclusion one way or the other for non-revenue sports, for Olympic sports, for soccer, right? And, you know, so I think there's a reason why I think if I had taken

Sasha's model 18 months ago to our athletic director, he'd be like, well, you know, I hear you this, but, and what about the spring overlaps and what about, they would have these bits, but as soon as I walk in and say, all right, well, let's look at this model, but now let's look at it regionalized. Let's look at it if we don't play, you know, teams, the Big East isn't really, you know, the comprise of Creighton and DePaul and Butler anymore, but it's, you know, our conference is Maryland and Virginia

and we're not getting on planes anymore. Immediately my athletic director will say, oh, well, that's where we need to go. Right? So the appetite, I actually think, I mean, Sasha's been working really hard and trying to get, in a lot of ways, over the last 10 years, 20 years, I've worked 400 years, whatever it's been, is trying to get the coaches

to sort of get 80s to see why this matters. And now I think you're going to start seeing ADs saying coaches this is what you're doing it's a hugely compelling model for what I think it kind of has to be and I think the other piece to it which is also an interesting foregone conclusion because of what's happened with football basketball players right because now quarterbacks are making seven figures to play for their school the eligibility for who's able to play in college is now going to shift and that's going to make a massive difference in some things right it's the ability to have a 16 year old

old sign a contract with Red Bull and then still may be able to go to Georgetown or Maryland at 18 or 19 or even 20 is I think that's real and I think that's a foregone conclusion. So I think those are some massive, massive things that are going to, you know, when you couple it with playing in the fallout and finishing in the spring, you couple, by the way, the other real opportunity for college soccer is if we play in the into May, suddenly we're on TV in May. There's no oxygen in the room for us to be on. TV in November and December because of football and basketball. No network wants to push any football game for any college soccer game.

But if we can get, suddenly our exposure goes up, there's about 100 reasons why this is really, really powerfully strong for the college game. And to be fair, it's pretty exciting because I think it solves, you know, I don't know which politician said it, but it's like you never waste a crisis, never waste a good crisis, right? And this is a crisis because of the finances of where we're. we are and where what's happening with men's sport and runoff revenue sport but it could also be the catalyst for something that puts our game into a totally different level of relevance and competition and quality and it could be it could be a massive massive boon for us there's

there's a million ways we could talk about this and go um so feel free to ignore me and go in whatever direction you want after i asked my question but brian you mentioned eligibility um and what you're talking about is sort of player signing pro deals and then coming to college after. There is conversation, and I don't know how much of this is external or internal, about college players becoming semi-pro and potential money that you can make from players moving on to the pro ranks. Do you think any of that is a realistic push or necessity for college soccer? Well, necessity, no. But I think, you know, is it something that people are talking? about yes is there an appetite for it amongst like the can of worms that opens up with like

FIFA the registering players um development you know player development fees and rights like you know it to be fair it should be i have a whole lot of thoughts about what we can do as a country for this but but um you know a local club that should be working with the local mLS club uh in a way that the mLS clubs you know have to start embracing a little bit more and to be fair the mLS clubs could be doing the same thing with colleges. But, you know, for me, that's sort of a, I think that's something that would be interesting to see what happens in two to three years if a player who has a contract is now working on going to college.

Well, he's still owned by somebody. So how does that work? There's some things that are kind of interesting to see because we are so unique. It's not a, it's not a normal thing across the planet. So there'll be some interesting interpretations of what that actually means when it gets back place. Yeah, Dave, let me just clarify some things. There is a strong movement in college sports to modernize the old amateurism rules. Obviously, as Brian mentioned, there's athletes being paid hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars. So, but that hasn't officially happening yet.

But you'll see probably within the next three to four months, a new set of rules that will allow players to have agents that will allow players who have signed a pro contract. before ever enrolling in college to go to college. In fact, quite honestly, it's happening already. It's happening a little bit more, unfortunately, with the international-based players, that is, with the domestic-based players. So I think, I think, almost exclusively.

What's that? Almost exclusively. That's the international players are doing that, and this is why the 23-year-old player in college is an international, not America. Well, it's happened with an MLS player, a young man from Tacoma Defiance, who signed a contract just enrolled in a division one school.

I think it's a, I think it hasn't percolated quite as much, but I think you're going to see a lot more players who either are MLS next pro players, maybe even MLS players who haven't gotten on the field yet and be able to go to college. Now, what will not happen is a player who's in college as Maryland, Georgetown, you know, leaves after a year, goes pro and then comes back and plays in college. I don't think, I don't see that happening. players who have not enrolled, who have a contract, who said, hey, by the way, I've tried this and maybe not, you know, two years I'm not playing or I don't like this. I'm going to go to

Georgetown or Maryland. I think you'll be able to do that. And I think those rules by January are going to be much more crystallized than they are right now. So I think that's a real positive development for all of our young players who might take a gap year or might try to pursue the pro ranks, but still have the ability to come to college. And again, that means, Brian, you might have older players now, you know. Pretty sure we would. Yeah, I will. It's great because, like, the thing that the pressure on these kids at 16,

the biggest pressure is the decision, do I forego my opportunity to go to college by signing this? And I'm under a lot of pressure by the club. All the people send you, and if you want to play professionally, this is how you have to do it. These guys are making these huge decisions at 16. And if this thing goes through and I agree with Sasha, I think it's going to happen,

then suddenly that's just that's a different totally different decision they can still they still keep all their doors open um and it would be wonderful in terms of i think you'll start seeing older players sasha i agree with that and i think you're saying older players that are american kids who are getting sort of second chance opportunities to continue to develop if it doesn't quite work out where they are for whatever reason you know david us coaches for many years as we're trying to develop this uh you know two semester model for years i've always felt very strongly that we have the opportunity. And again, you know, to use Brian's word that never waste a good crisis, I think this crisis might give us the opportunity right now to really

create a version of college soccer that could, could in essence, be the best under 23 league in the world. Now, we'll have some players over 23, like the Olympics has a few overage players. But I do think that, I do think also we hope to eventually streamline our relationship with MLS and USL, in a way where there's much more open lines of communication, much more sharing of data, because we are, you know, there's 200 colleges recruiting players from all over the world. We have a scouting system that's embedded to help our professional teams, our national teams. That's incredible.

You look at so many of the players that have come through a college ranks that have been sold for $5.10, $15, $20 million. We've made a lot of money for MOS. And we're still producing players for the national team. Even in 2025, you know, I think the last roster had, I think, eight of the 23 players played in college. That's a common theme, no matter how you slice it. Okay, there's a reason why the college players still find their way into our national teams because of things we're talking about. Now, imagine how much better that will be once we get the, you know, become part of the U.S. soccer ecosystem, get the split season in place and start doing a thing.

that we're doing, when college soccer grows, soccer in the U.S. grows. So that's what we hope happens. I think for a lot of people from the outside, there was a surprise when the, you know, the noise came out that U.S. soccer was potentially stepping in to a little bit of this void and getting involved. Is that the message you're getting from this next-gen college soccer committee? And the reason, you know, we saw the quote from J.T. Batson, you know, the CEO of U.S. soccer specifically saying, we believe college soccer can be that premier.

are you 23 league, is that the message you're getting that there is a place for it? Let me tell you a little story here. So about 20 months ago, I think it was 24. That was actually a little bit longer and I'm sorry, 23. I'm in San Diego watching E-CNL. And there's supposed to be a meeting at the NCAA to see if we can get our soccer model back in the pipeline for a vote. And I get a call from my person, Chad Holly from the Big Ten,

and I'm driving on I-5 back to my hotel, and I get a call. And he tells me that we're not going to get the vote. It's going to sunset, and it's going to take years for us to get it restarted. And I, if you would have seen one angry Macedonian on I-5, the things I was yelling and screaming, I pulled off the side of the road,

I was so angry. I called Jeremy Gunn, who knew J.T. Batson. Jeremy sent me J.T. cell. I called J.T. right away. We set up a call a couple hours later. I told them where we are and what we need to do. And, man, this guy is a superhero. A whole different world of U.S. soccer.

In 2003, when there was a first proposal that I was a part of, in 2003, J.T. was the student manager at Stanford. that when Brett Simon was the coach, he actually wrote the proposal for us that we were all talking on the phone. He was a silent listener on a call on speaker phones. He wrote their initial proposal for us. So we had a fan and we had somebody in a position to help, and J.T. made it very clear right away that they are going to find a way to help college soccer. He believed in it, and since then, U.S. soccer has been a different. version of U.S. soccer. This has been

God's end. You know, they've seen the value not only on the playing side of things, but on the growth of the game side of things. You'll see so many people that are in journalism. You see people that are in front offices of MLS teams. You see

people in coaching and technical side. And just imagine if college soccer went away, as Brian's talking about, with the resources going to the rev-share sports. If we went way, how would that look? So this has been just a wonderful, you know, evolvement of U.S. soccer injecting there, you know, both political, financial support and,

you know, and even emotional support, I would say, for all of us to help go there. So, so we're excited about the future. I know you both have to coach. So I don't want to hold you for too long. Let me ask you one more, hairbrain one that's floating out there and then we can dig in a little bit on the season that is. U.S. Open Cup is something that's been brought up a lot about college soccer being connected to it. Do you see a world in which college soccer, men's college soccer teams compete in some form against professional teams in your careers?

Well, I mean, it's not out of the question if this thing passes, right? You can, you can, the dovetailing of a lot of things that haven't been able to have been thought about before is real, right? And this is certainly one of them, I suppose it's a, um, You know, but if you have the ability, I mean, the rules right now, David, are like, our guys, we had a couple guys who were playing in the summer with NYCFCs, they're training with them. And the Colombian national team was wanting to do a closed-door scrimmage ahead of the Copa America a year ago. And six or eight guys who were college players were told, you can't play in that scrimmage because there's pros on the field. Like, those are, it's just crazy stuff.

That's a life-changing experience that you take away. All of that goes away. So now you can, now you can integrate with your clubs, guys can go back. They could maybe, there's no reason why they technically couldn't even play in some first-team games if they're doing great. Not that that would happen, but, but being able to then just do something like that where you have teams that can participate in the U.S. Open Cup would be super interesting. I don't see it really happening anytime soon or easily to be, I mean, to be real. don't see it happening, but there's no real reason why you couldn't moving forward

in some ways. Yeah. It's not going to happen. This is why. Unless U.S. soccer changes the Open Cup schedule, because right now it goes essentially from March until October and the end of summer. Our season, we're not going to be playing as Georgetown or Maryland in the summertime.

So that's going to be a whole different. If you flip the calendar, Sosh, right? Suddenly, suddenly MLS is the same. Yeah, I mean, I think, I'm talking about the near future. You know, I'm talking about the near future. So, you know, MLS, you know, we're going to beat MLS on getting the, you know, the fall spring calendar. And then we'll ask U.S. soccer to flip the U.S. Open Cup. And then we'll lead the way on all kinds of changes that are good for the game.

Now, look, the concept is great. I do think there is opportunities, David, for some, you know, sort of college pro events that we can do, like the college pro challenge. I think there's some things that we can do some things like that in-season tournaments. The U.S. Open Cup, I think, is going to be a bit more challenging because of a number of teams. Don't forget, there's 200 college teams. So I think it's going to be challenging, but I think that's down the line. I don't see that in the year's future. Coach Rees, let me leave you on this one.

In your dream world, what does college soccer look like? Like, what is your, in your, you know, off moments when you get to. to think about it. I'll be honest, it's, it's, um, it's a more integrated piece. It's the relevant U23 spot to go, right? It's, it's, MLS clubs recognize they don't need to build a structure that's already in place with their, their MLS next pro things they have and their development. They, they, the recognition that they'll have players that can sign as pros and,

and develop in the first team. That's great. But then, uh, everyone else, the recognition that, If this is done properly, the Columbus crew sending us two of their homegrown players is something that then is something they're excited about versus something they're saying, well, they're not quite working out and we'll see what happens. That development is where the best, in my opinion, the best Americans who are 17, 18, 19, 20 are now back in the college game, raising the level of the college game, working with these MLS

clubs to figure out the development of where these guys are. So that the infrastructure we have in place is really truly utilized, again, in a more optimal. As Sasha was talking about, 1980s, 19, early 90s, the college game is all we had to develop our national team, right? It was all we had. And we used it pretty darn well, relatively speaking, right? It was a necessity.

I mean, Ziggy Smith basically took a college team and moved them into a World Cup. right and you know so that bob ganser in 1990 right you know that was that's all we had and we did it really well and i and and the reintegration of college as a real vehicle for developing mLS players and being appreciated by how we can do that and by the way how to do it economically way way more efficiently than they're doing it now but where we're reinforced and and and are given given the uh you know the wherewithal in effect to take the best players and not remove them from college, but to incubate them here and move them on when they're ready, right, versus keep them out of it and have us try to convince people this isn't, this is a very viable career path. That for me is where I think we can get to. And I think it starts knocking off, you know, some of these arguments that people do make about college. Hey, you don't play in the spring. Well, hey, that's right. That's not true. We work really hard, right, through the spring when we were not playing the competitive season, but the kids are

working and developing. But that argument goes away because now we are playing through the spring, right? And the ability to sort of integrate and really work in tandem with MLS and U.S. soccer at the end of the day is actually super exciting. Sasha, anything to add from your dreams? Well, yeah, let me start working backwards. You know, when I close my eyes, I see a college championship in the spring, you know, you got March Madness. and I want to have May Mayhem or whatever we want to call it. I want to see a college games sold out people jumping over fences to watch games. I want it to become a big event because in college sports,

you're only as significant as your championships. And I want the championships to really grow and be special. And then working backwards from that to some of the things that Brian said, you know, I wanted to be a destination for, you know, 80, 90% of the MLS Next Pro players. But not only that, but also the destination for clubs all over the world, you know, they're going to sign the 15, 16, 17-year-old kid that's good enough to play in a first team.

But those other players need a place to go to. So I see players from Barcelona and Bayern Munich and Man United wanting to come here. I remember a number of years ago there was a talented player at Man United that Alex Ferguson spoke to Russell Payne, who was a coach at Northwestern now, I said, I'd love this kid to come to an American school because he's talented, but he needs to really grow up. He needs a structure to help him grow up because he's super talented. And you know what?

Nobody knows like his name now. There was no place for him to go. So I see a place where it's going to be a destination for the majority of top young players to come and play the game the right way to develop and to pursue an education, but also to pursue their dreams of having a long career in the game. So, yes, the best under 23 league in the world. That's what I want. I want the championship to be, you know, big time significant, you know,

where TV rights are selling for a lot of money and that money trickles down back to the schools and then we can pay players and we can get some of their revenue sharing to get to a place where we're really growing the game. I want a deep bond relationship with MLS, U.S. Soccer, U.S.L. We should all be a triumvirate working together so that we can help produce the best players and we're not competing against each other.

We're all, we're, we all have a big piece to play in this country, and I want to see that relationship established. Well, I could do this for two hours, but you guys have to go. Yeah. And work on your actual jobs now. If you are in the area, in the DMV at all, go out to a game. Shawfield, as you guys mentioned, just put in lights for the first time. I was a broadcat.

I covered some of your conference championships, Brian, and I did not know the reason you didn't play night games was because there was a helicopter that flew people into a hospital behind the field. Yep, yep, yep, no, that's a, it's a major upgrade. It's a major upgrade. So I give Sasha a lot of credit for playing us, even though we didn't have lights for years and years.

A lot of people don't like those games. You did it, so now we got lights just to make them happy again. I guess the only thing I didn't mention, And my only vision for the future of college soccer is that Georgetown beats Maryland in that future somewhere. Oh, hey, you've had your share recently. I'm sure we might see each other again later this year. Hey, one day it'll be a regional competition.

Maryland, Georgetown Soccer's must see soccer. It's that simple. There are some great college soccer games out there all across the country. So look up your local school, go to a game. It is the easiest way to go watch good soccer in your area. and hopefully it only continues to grow. And it's a touch point for so many people around the country who aren't around a big pro market

or don't want to spend $45 or $85 to go see a game or if Messi's in town, $100,000, whatever it ends up being. So thank you to both of you once again for taking the time to do this and we'll have to have you on again soon. Thanks, Dave. Great, thanks, Dave.

So, oh, oh.