SoccerWise - Masch Out In Miami, Matt Wells (Colorado Rapids) & Matt Crocker's Replacements w/Matt Doyle

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

WHAT A WEEK! Not a single second to breath in the American soccer space from US Open Cupsets, to historic wins in Mexico, to championship winning coaches resigning and more! Soccerwise as usual brings you the full buffet of soccer content. First David & Tom talk about what is going on in Miami, Nashville's historic win in Mexico, and USOC Cupsets centered around OUR One Knox. Then Matt Wells the new head coach of Colorado Rapids joins to talk about building a style and culture, a 65k crowd coming this weekend, US Open Cup experience, playing the youngest roster in MLS and much more. And as every week Doyle is here to talk US Soccer coming off the earth shattering news that Sporting Director Matt Crocker is leaving his position immediately to take the same role in Saudi Arabia.5:15 Javier Mascherano Resigns In Miami17:35 Nashville Loving The CONCACAF Lyfe 24:27 Seattle Heartbreaking Loss To Tigres29:45 Magic Of USOC35:50 Matt Wells New Head Coach Of Colorado Rapids55:24 Matt Doyle Talking Future Of USSF At Sporting Director & Coaching Positions

Welcome back, everybody to Sacco-Wise, David Goss, and Tommy Scoops here with a big episode. If you are not watching, if you are listening, the Nick shirt is on. It is NBA playoffs week, baby. I would hate to be suffocated, suffocated by Wingstop. Mikhail Bridges, O.J. Anobi, in your face, in your face. I think we did 25 minutes after we hung up on Monday's show, Tom, about this. We never actually did it on the show. So I felt like people needed that juice and energy.

We did do it on the show. Did we do it on the show? We did it off the show. And I figured we were going to save it for after the games. I will say I'll offer a little bit of an olive branch before we go to full out war with the Atlanta Hongs fans. How many joint F. Trey Young chance between the Hawks and the Knicks fans are we going to get now because I'm making them wear that scarlet. Early and often.

Every, this is what Hawks fans know. And JP knows this very well. Enough with the boy who cried wolf on the hawk stuff. You told me Trey Young was the future. so you don't get to walk away from it. And every time in between that you start a season, you're like, I think we'll be fourth in the east. I actually think we're a contender.

Oh, next year's draft pick's going to be the year, your boy who cried wolf at this point, so you don't get anything for me. And after the New York Knicks, suffocate every single breath out of the life of you this season, I don't ever want to hear anyone talk ever again. Atlanta United fans, you guys are good. Falcons fans, I don't care.

Braves fans revolt me as a human being and as an entire entity, and Hawks fans have now entered that territory as well. So we have then been playing out, which has nothing to do with what we talk about. We also have a loaded show. We have Matt Wells joining us, new head coach for the Colorado Rapids.

I officially declared the must watch on Monday. They have sold 65,000 tickets for the matchup against Messi on Saturday at Mile High Stadium, which they are saying is their 30th anniversary, which is a very creative way to get a game at Mile High that Messi happens to be playing in as an opponent, much more creative than what DC and Columbus called it. But they are one of the teams right now.

And I think wanted to talk to Matt a lot about his philosophy, what he's doing, what he's building. Also his experience, worked at Club Bruges, worked at Bournemouth, worked at Tottenham for a long time. So understanding like structure, academy, pathway development. They set the record Nathan Chumba, the youngest debutante in Rapid's history at 15 years old on Tuesday night in the U.S. Open Cup. Gappi's been a huge part of what they've done.

Jackson Travis, Wayne Frederick, and a lot of other young players. They are the youngest team so far on average age in Major League Soccer. So we'll talk a lot about that. And then we've got Doyle who will join us. We'll talk about the Matt Crocker stuff with him mainly because it happened right after or right before we recorded. And honestly, I can't believe how long we talked about it. I thought I didn't care and I don't care.

And it's more we will talk about who could replace him and what the role is and what matters and what it shows, I think, more for U.S. soccer. Betty Crocs, baby, just a snotin' kid from Wales, just living the dream. So hopefully, I'll send him all my restaurant recommendations in Jeddah and Riyadh when he's able to make it over there. We'll talk a little bit as well about the team, some of the players coming in and out, what we think will happen, future coaching as well, because I think that's, that's what we got to, which is the most important part of all this is who's going to hire Marisaa

Pocitino's replacement, or who's going to spend nine months deciding Marisa Portchitino. should replace Maricio Pogesino like the U.S. Federation normally does. So we'll talk all about that. But Tom, I thought it'd be quick, a little open cup. I've got huge one Knoxville vibes. I watched the game with Susanna down here in Miami because she was down here for work and wasn't able to be in D.C. Baller League.

With Ian. Yeah. Baller League in both directions for one Knoxville and the job that she is doing. So that was one of the best experience, like sporting experiences I've ever had. Like someone's so passionately caring and connected. and then just what happened. Three goals. I'm so jealous.

First time they've ever played an MLS team, penalty kicks. Like there were so many moments where it's like, oh, they've done enough. Like no, they have to win now. Now you have to win. And then it's okay. They've done enough. No matter what happens, it's like, we got to win. At this point, you have to.

So we'll talk about that. And we'll talk about Conquayf, of course. Sounders ending on an electric low in that game. Tuesday night was unreal in terms of the performances and the matches and the matchups in the history that Nashville has made. But we got to start where we always got to start. We thought Marco Donodal would be the lone firing or the lone departure of a head coach of this week. And we were wrong, baby, like 24 hours later. Javier Mascherano has departed into Miami. Germo Hoyos is taking over as interim manager for now. And Tom, the chaos continues.

Yes, it does. This was really shocking news that kind of broke this week around the world of MLS. Tuesday is when Miami made the announcement. That's not when Javier Mascherano resigned. In fact, it was a few days earlier. It was over the weekend from what sources told me. There was an incident in the locker room at some point after Miami's disappointing to draw at home against Red Bull, New York. I think more details are going to continue to emerge,

but something that is clear is that there's tension around the club. One source told me that for sure things were souring after the elimination by Nashville in the Concep Champions Cup. This is a difficult job. One source at another club was like, yeah, man, like even when you're one of Messi's best friends, as much Toronto is, it's a really, really difficult job. Guillermo Hoyos is taking over his interim manager.

Hoyos is who Messi is referred to as his footballing godfather. He came to the club right after Messi arrived. Originally as director of methodology of the academy, he technically holds a sporting director role, though Alberto Morero Diaz is the CSO. And now Hoyos is interim head coach, and I think that he's going to have a bit of a leash, just because Messi loves him.

And this is a guy who's done a lot in the world of soccer. But for Mascherano, what's interesting is, again, speaking with sources with direct knowledge on the matter of like the inner workings at the club, it was normal for there to be like heated exchanges between Messi and Maserano. And I will say a number of people were like, that's not abnormal, right? For guys who are at the absolute top, top, top of this game, that's sometimes this how it goes. And like, it's not as if their relationship was ever in doubt or ever in trouble. it was more about Mascherano, because of how close they are, felt very comfortable, challenging,

and disagreeing with Messi. And they would have a lot of discussions. Like, one person told me that even, like, they were always talking and training and always exchanging ideas. And again, sometimes it would just get heated. And another source said, even in Miami's past, like, other big names, like, you think if there was Gonzalo Guine and Blazman Tweedy, in particular as guys who are, like, you know, it's World Cup winner.

And Gonzaloiguan, all the Champions League success here after Round Madrid, like, players that get to that level, when they lose, when they drop points, they're frustrated. Let their frustrations know. So, known. So this isn't like just a messy thing that I do want to specify. Obviously, Jordi Alba, Louis Suarez, Sergio Bousquetts, all in the same ilk. Macherano played with all these guys. They are equals.

They are peers. That's why I think he was so comfortable kind of clashing back and forth. But what isn't up for debate is now this is going to be the third head coach since Messi joined three years ago. And they have had three CSOs since Messi joined three years ago. there is a lot of change and it is not unfair that you said the word chaos and i say that because even in all that you just talked about um from what i've heard around this is there has been tension outside of messy around these parties and you said technically sporting director and cso

they have brought in a lot of people who would normally be in charge and they've put them all in the same building and it's not a huge building there's not that much to do. It's an MLS roster. There's a salary cap. The rosters lock on a certain amount of time and let's be real. They are not actually all working on the academy pathway constantly 24 hours a day. There are a lot of big personalities and there are a lot of ideas in that building. And from everything I've been told by everyone, the mosses love that. And they feel that the tension pushes up into pushing for greatness. And this is a sporting conversation we have all the time. We're going to talk to Matt Wells in a little bit. Matt Wells said the moment anyone in

my team feels like they have their spot, I have failed. But that means that these people, that what he is building, which is fair is constant pressure to perform. Inter Miami does that from a top-down office point of view. These are the types of things that happen if that's the culture that you build. And they could be right. They won an MLS Cup last year. They got out of the group stage at the club world's cup they beat fc porto like they're i'm not saying they're wrong but this is all of part of how that works this is how barcelona works this is how ral madrid works this is how liverpool work like these are how these the pressure in these great clubs causes chaos and i think consistently in global in the global game i think teams take half steps back and the inefficiency of a lot of this

pulls the game back but because everyone does it you don't see it right and this is the combo i had the other League of Mexico. For all the failures of Club America, if Tigris and Monterey and Cruz are also having those failures, you're not going to see it exposed until there's an external source. And maybe that's what Concordiaf Champions League is for, into Miami's, like, shows the restrictions. I think what all of this does is, I think it matters somewhat, but not as much for today. If Messi's on the field, the team will be successful. I think this stuff is like the 10-year runway of like, can they build into a great club? Can they build into something? I mean, Girohoya said it was one of the top 10 clubs in the world.

Okay, for sure, I can say, I just made a tuna salad. It was the best, it was one of the top 10 tuna salads on the planet. Like, no one can deny that, I guess. That's where I think this affects this team, which is like, could Miami have built something that is different than everywhere else? And I don't think that's going to be the case inside of all this chaos. But that's not their responsibility. If the mosses want to put in money and they keep winning, then what do they care? So I'm glad that you brought up that point about the mosses.

And that is absolutely right. Like, that is just kind of a fact. Like, they believe that that tension is something that is important, that that kind of fight or flight is probably too strong. But, like, the lack of comfortability and the challenging yourself every day to get better, the challenging, like, I don't know exactly, I guess, where I sit, but, like, Moss and Miami believe, and they say this often, we were a big club, we were a global club.

This is how big clubs act. And, and again, I don't know if that's exactly how you have to act, but he's not wrong. And that, that is pretty much how all these clubs are. act. And again, like with the Mascherano messy stuff, like, they're, I think that their relationship is still good, but like they, like, often or like,

it wasn't abnormal for them to be clashing and challenging each other, right? Like, so this is a symptom of, of what the club wants to be and to your point, gosh, like, they won an MLS Cup, they won the Sporters Guild, they won Leaks Cup, I can't really knock their success. And I will say that they have built something different. Like Miami's different than every

other MLS club and not in just like a is slightly unique. Yeah. I don't know that it is. One club has Lino Messi. One club had Alba and Buscats. And one club is spending the, like, kind of money and doing the global... They are an amplified version of this,

but they are the David Beck and Robbie Keene, LA Galaxy, 15 years on. They are three huge names. They can get some other minor names to come in. And maybe you could argue some of the U-22 stuff with Diego Gomez is a little bit different, but they're in Miami. I understand Ben Hat Kromoski play a couple of minutes.

They're not pumping out youth academy players. They're not doing something that's different on that side. I don't think you look through this team and you say these are Champions League 25-year-old starters playing at multiple positions. Iande is a good player. They've brought in some other pieces out of South America that are close to their prime entering. But like I wouldn't say that this Inter-M Miami team has done something in a, they haven't

created a model that is different. They have just maximized the model. and they've done so through the energy of Messi and they got messy and like, that's fine, that's all they're allowed to do. That's okay. But I don't look at this and say, oh, this is something completely different.

I would argue what TFC built in 2016 was different than anything we had seen before. I think you could argue what Atlanta built two years later was different. And I think what L.A.FC. built was different as well. Diego Rossi coming in and being that DP at that time. Almi Roan, what he meant. Javinko when he came in.

I understand Messi is messy. But that was like, everyone in the world wants to sign messy and the ability to do it is great but it's not like a game plan they made up that no one ever thought of before i mean sure but but like i i i don't want to like yada yada over this and then like sound like we're being negative right i think we just spent 20 minutes on why signing messy's a bad idea um but even so pointing this forward um so gamal hooyos takes over and and one source says like quote like he's the one that never says no to messy and i think that's an interesting

feeling and vibe, and that's why I do think that he's going to have a little bit of a run as interim. I don't, this part is speculation of like, I think he could be there for a while. Again, I don't know their exact plans, but just logically, like if Javier Messerano, again, one of Messi's best friends and these guys that he's played with him appear somebody who can absolutely challenge him all the time, like if it, and like prove to be a very good coach. I want to be clear about that too. Like, I was very, very impressed with him down the end of last year. And this is a guy who, when he was initially hired. It was like, oh, man, it's just whatever the friend version of nepotism is. Like, oh, he's only getting this job because he's Argentine. Or like, no, man, like, he was a really

good coach and he proved that. So it is a loss from Miami. And, but, but like, why would Chavi Hernandez take this job? Like, I was talking to an agent who has like, um, a decently big name coach. And I, and he's like, what, what do you think? And I was like, I mean, you could try. but like why would this have like why wouldn't it I feel like that the pool of candidates is going to be pretty small and again if they're successful then they're successful but you know there's that and then the other part of this gods before we move on like messy's public behavior at the very least because we don't know always what he was like in private at Barcelona or PSG but his public behavior is absolutely escalated since he's joined Miami right he's routinely seen arguing with the rest and staff members

of other clubs and I don't remember seeing it to this degree during his Barcelona career again Maybe I just am not remembering correctly, but like, he was fined in 2025 for placing his hand on the neck of Medi Belushi and NYCFC assistant. Earlier this season, he scored against Orlando City and immediately turned to the Orlando bench and asked the coaches if they wanted his autograph. Like, there's the stories that came out of the Leaks Cup final. Like, I forget who reported it that, but like apparently he told Pedro de la Vega, you know, you'll never play for the national team as long as I'm there. Like the stuff that they were doing to like, Obet, like, the, the crew, immediately when he got, here against Cruz Azul, the stuff that happened in the tunnel. Like, this is a side of messy that we've never seen.

And it is like, it is kind of escalating. And I think you've really seen its frustrations on behold this year, even maybe more than less, but like over this tenure, I think that's an interesting part. I do wonder the cultural experience for him, which is, I think you're right about the bars and stuff, but I think part of the bars of stuff was like, they were a crew and it wasn't messy. It was Bousquet's and yes, and chavvy. Like they were all together as a group. And so now it feels like with Alba and Buscettes retiring and now Mascherano leaving,

like I don't think Messi and Hermann Bertrami are best friends. And I don't think he sees him maybe as he does these other people. And so I think there's a bit of like isolation and pressure on Messi. Not that it's pressure he can't handle, but like from a social experience, I think it's a little bit different. Obviously, Rodrigo DePaul fills a good chunk of that. But like it's been, it was called Messy and. friends. How many of these guys are his friend? Like, not saying he doesn't get along with the teammates,

but like, is it still friends? And I think some of that is some of the frustration he's gone through. I think some of that is you've seen his frustration also go out further. Like, he has made comments about the league growing itself and like comments about major league soccer as a whole, not just about the club or referees or all of this. So I think there's a lot that he's trying to push while he's here. And maybe as he lives in the experiences, he's seeing some of the deficiencies both in his club and in the space around him. And he is trying to push some of those entities to be different or be better. And we know that when he wants to do interviews, he does them. When he doesn't, he doesn't. But when he does them, he says stuff because he's thinking about it and he wants to get

it out. So we could talk about this stuff all day. And it's fascinating. I mean, the reigning champions coach for some reason departed seven games into the season. Like this just doesn't happen in major league soccer this doesn't happen often in any sport and so it will continue to be a huge story uh it does feel like it's as you said giermore hoyos his job to lose uh at this point and if he can start to string a couple results then uh they've got an opportunity they will head to colorado this week and we'll talk to matt wells in a second but first let's talk a little open cup and concaf champions league um let's start in concaf we talked going into this we felt like two of four was possible. And we both felt like Seattle was alive. We felt like Nashville had an opportunity.

And then LAFC felt like the obvious one. LAFC goes down. They just survive against Cruz Azul, but they end up getting a penalty kick at the end of the game. That gives them the draw, which means that they, I believe, are hosting Toluca in the second leg. No, because Toluca went in one. So maybe I'm wrong about that one. I will check. Yeah, I haven't looked into that yet. Because they don't have a schedule out for the game. But, gosh, they did put when the games would be, like what the weeks are, which we didn't know as a Monday. So it's a good start. Yeah, it's always improving.

And then Nashville makes history. First MLS team to go and outright win at the Esteka as they had to pretty much. Coming off the zero zero draw, no Sam surge. And they go down there and a strong performance like from front to back for this Nashville team. They were against the game at times, but they were not getting throttled at any moment. and Hany Mukhtar, like, this is what you've waited for. He's got a guy to set him up. He's able to just be a finisher.

He doesn't have to be everything for this team. And he has a huge moment where he puts the team on his back. Yeah, this BJKalhan National Side just continues to keep going to new heights. I would say as a podcast, collectively, we have been very, very high on this team. And then they're from last season to the preseason. And even both of us were like, I'd love to believe they're going to go down and win, but we've been around long enough, but it's not like that. And then for the news that come out that Sam Surge didn't travel,

when he picked up, picked up an injury, just like makes it feel even more so like that. But Nashville going down to the S-TEC is just a monumental result for them to do what they did to continue on. And they have, again, no disrespect to Tigris, but like, I'd rather buy Tigris than Toluca. And I think I'd rather play Tigris than L-AFC. Like, they are in the semifinals.

was a huge achievement in and of itself, but they would be on, I think, the favorable side if they were to get to a final, which, again, to be very, very clear. There is no easy semi-final here in the Concaps Champions Cup. It's just that Toluca are just unbelievable, and that L-EFC series is going to be fantastic. Yeah, so because Toluca won,

Toluca will host the second leg. So both MLS teams will host the first leg, travel for the second leg when it comes up. Week of April, 28th and 30th, week of May 5th, and 7th. and yeah, there's not an easy one. But what's amazing about Nashville is we've pretty, we've pretty much never seen a team go from no experience to this jump. Like even for what Vancouver accomplished last year and what Toronto accomplished 10 years ago,

because they were Canadian champions, those teams had played in Conccaf a lot. They had struggled. You know, TFC had gotten blown off the field. Vancouver couldn't beat L.A.F.C. in Concaf play. But like, they had been there before. what's amazing about Nashville is they go from zero experience with this to a historic moment that no one has ever accomplished going to the Aztec and getting the victory over Club America. And so in theory, we were excited about what this team could be and the steps they could take, the speed at which they've hit 100% on this.

And that with continued performances in league play, and I trashed Charlotte on Monday because it was, again, embarrassing the performance they put together against Nashville. in a rotated Nashville side. But like, they're leading shield. They're into a concave final. These are things that don't happen. And to do it from a team that has no history being in these spots is incredible. It really is. And there is just not enough kind of praise we can heap on BJ Callahan.

His first year, there were some positive signs, but like there was no, there were really no results. And I know that he took over during the season, but there was like an extended, with the league's cup break, he basically had a preseason because they were out very quickly and their gap between games that you're welcome Nashville. Leaks Cup saves you once again. But like I thought that they had a chance like, okay, we're going to see more. And I was like, you know, you can see some of the moments, but, you know, it's not really coming together yet.

I don't know how this team is going to transition or whatever. And then last year, very, very good, very clearly building blocks and then making tweaks while you're successful and evolving this team. And the best iteration is it's not just Christian Espinosa this year. more young players that are coming through. It's more tactical nuances and more variations to their core principles of what they can do against different teams. And when they'll find ways to do the box with the midfield and where Eddie Tagset is, he's a very unique central midfielder. And like the way he covers ground, he's tenacious, all this.

But like, he's not a deep-line playmaker. So what they do is they have him in best positions to win second balls and to contribute in the ways that are best for him. And those are my favorite qualities about a head coach. You can have your core principles, but like you're also tweaking things to make sure that the players that are on the field are largely in their best positions to succeed rather than just like, oh, those are a couple good players that you have to play in my system or whatever. Like that's, I think that's why we should have given them more credence going on in the road to Club America because they're malleable. It's they won't just play the same exact way every single time. And for that, it's not always easy for head coach doing it. And it's definitely not easy for a team.

to have all those different clubs in their bags, even when they're smaller nuances. So just, I look at the coaching. This seemed their early success, I think Gary Smith obviously deserves a lot of credit, particularly defensively stuff. But the attacking was just like, Honey Muk's are special,

and we're going to try to let him do that. But like, it was a lot of individual talent in, like, shining in those moments. This still has individual talents shining, but I do really put this on the coaching staff. He also has been malleable with players. I mean, Swaki, just taking over from Joe Willis

and giving him the opportunity reed Baker whiting replacing dan lovitz in these high leverage games a guy who's been long time shoulder like the safe option on the road in concorda caff is to go with the veteran not the young kid who has maybe not been there kokkerin getting full 90s in some of these games um i mean the midfields built around yazbek who is again a young player who's getting first time opportunities and there are veterans in a lot of these spots that he could lean back on and so i think he has shown sort of like to the players. There's opportunity there. If you play well, you'll get your chances.

They push the game. They've been really, really impressive overall. So they are able to work their way through in this series. Then on Wednesday night, the LA Galaxy, who were the ones who were really up against it, they get blown out by Toluca. I don't know how much more we have to say about that one. They're not on the pace for these teams. And then the Seattle Tigris game.

And I could have written you the script. I could have written you the 3-1 Seattle would. the one goal away, the dominating the game, and they put themselves in a bad spot with some of the, you know, mistakes they made in the first leg. But they're there. And like, that's the part that hurts the most. They're right there.

They had every opportunity. And for all the quality you saw from Rusenac, you also saw missed chances. I thought it was one of the best games, Jesus Ferreira has played for them. I think you see the quality of Alex Rold Don. Like so many players elevated and rose to the moment. And it had vibes.

of Tigress Sounders 15 years ago with Jimmy Charore and DeAndre Yedlin. But like the old school Fox soccer like Kairons and logos. So you've seen those highlights brings you back. But I think the point that the frustration is Seattle believes they belong in all these games. Same as they did last year with the club broke up. Like they're not intimidated. Jordan Morris being healthy gives them a huge bonus. They're a good team.

And they didn't set themselves up correctly in the first leg to be able to get over the top in the second leg. and I think it'll be one that they'll think about for a while. Yeah, and, and a valiant effort, I thought that they really went forward and they controlled the game last night, but it comes back to that first, like, T. Grace got the shutout. And so that set themselves up in a really good spot here because they knew if they get one, like, Seattle needs to get four.

And we can conquer CAF it up. We can do whatever. We lean on our really, really good goalkeeper because Noel feels like he's ageless. He's 40, I think. Was it you who texted us last said? It was like how many like souls has he snatched them? I'm pretty sure it's Anders. From Anders.

Anders was on an all-timer last night, watching, watching his team lose, but also just savaging everything about Conca Capu was like. Just like in between like sadness. It's like still fighting. But like, but again. The flute player and then C2A crying but playing through it or clarinet, whatever she played. Yeah, like these games come down in moments. We know this right.

And on the bulk of it, you might. might say Seattle's a little bit better, but like, Tegraise getting the 2-0 home result in leg one is just what League of Mekke's teams do typically to MES teams so that when you get to the second leg and then you complain about time wasting and then you complain about, you know, oh, it's just this one moment. We dominated everything else. Well, like, no, that's all by design and it gets set up by what they did in the first leg. And Seattle knew that they had to go for it, which opens you up to conceding that one goal

that Tegraise desperately need and feel that they will get to get through. I will say after the Roosnett goal, did you believe? Yeah. I was like, we're up. Me too. I think I put on blue sky. I'm like, we up. We in here.

Like, yeah, the way he hit that ball and you're like, it's the pressure's pouring on. Musovsky's on the field. You're the moose is loose. You got pressure in the box. Nothing about the way Tigress saw this game out was confident. It was literally just a numbers game of they were up by too much. As you said, they held the shut out. The one goal gave them such a big advantage.

They didn't put their foot on the ball. They didn't control moments. I don't even know defensively that they really funneled Seattle into areas that were dangerous. They did throw their body in front of a, I mean, Seattle had 20 shots. I think four of them on goal. So they were throwing bodies in front of stuff. Things were getting rocketed off defenders. But besides that, really unimpressive, I thought every second ball that came back out,

Rold Don and Snyder Brunel are just like hoovering up, back out to the wings. Second balls coming in. And Rothrock had obviously the chance in the first game that, that, that regret. I thought I had some chances in this game. But this is Seattle. Like they're good. They believe they're there.

All that stuff. But like there are flawed pieces in this team that are good on their day and not on other times. And that's a 50, 50 shot of you're hoping the coin lands on the right side for everyone because you need to in games like this and it matchups like this. And so if it doesn't happen, you're in a tough spot because they don't have that crazy elevated talent that can just drag them through moments. And I think you saw that across this series.

but I would argue one of the best games we've seen in North America in the last year. So, and them and Nashville for what they did down at the Azteca. So we're waiting on the exact schedule, but LAFC will host Toluca in the first leg. Toluca might as well just put a base camp in L.A. at this point, just like living in the L.A. area. L.A.F.C. will then have to go to altitude at the Le Bonbenara in that second leg. We've set it over and over. This Toluca team is the best team in the region.

They don't have Marcel Ruiz, so there's a little bit of opportunity there, but this is going to be a wagon for this LASC team to try and deal with, and then Nashville, Tegress. So congratulations. You beat Club America, and now you have to beat Tegress. Like, this is the nightmare. I feel like this is a really good representation for the semifinal, for kind of all these teams deserve.

And again, I think if Seattle got through, it would have been the same at the Club America, like, right? Like I think that this feels like the right result for the final four. And I do believe that all four would be deserving champions. And like there wasn't like no fluke run. Is the meme with Big Bird at the meeting in the galaxy being Big Bird and everyone else being ready to rock and roll? So yeah, unbelievable round. And then Open Cup before we move into our interview with Matt Wells.

We got three cup sets. Louisville just stomping Austin out the gate. it is a bigger question with this Austin and I went to the Miami game and for Austin I think lack of identity team is you play up and you play down and they play below Louisville that's not like oh they play down and they left this game open like Louisville came out and took this game Louisville team with a new head coach like changing things all that stuff

they dominated this game and there are some serious questions to be asked in Austin and then on Tuesday night some other entertaining games the big one Colorado Springs they're able to to get the 3-0 win over SKC, another club that has a lot of questions about themselves. And so that sets up a Rapids, Colorado Springs, a derby match for the next round. And then on Wednesday night, one Knoxville, going to DC United. Again, a DC team with some rotation, but also like a $9 million striker and Patola wearing the armband and all of that. DC goes up one zero.

They go down to one. They tie it to two. They go up three, two on one of the worst goals you will ever see. proceeded still one knocks comes back they're able to tie it three three and then they win in penalty kicks and these one knocks goals were like real ass goals like playing in and out the slip through ball the finish over the shoulder first time finishes accurate crossing like i i will say for the people that watched with us who have never been around this team or watched either of these teams play at this bar there was not a feeling that one knocks was the lower

division team they looked fully equal This is going to sound compromised because we love Seuss. We love Ian Fuller, head coach. What Ian Fuller has done with his team, I really do hope that teams in higher divisions are taking notice. He had a lot of time as an assistant in MLS. He's assisted in Minnesota. So he's got that experience.

And I was really happy for him when he got this head coaching job so he could be it. Because he could have just continued to be an assistant in MLS and a valuable one at that. But he wanted to be head coach. I hope that clubs in MLS are not going to keep overlooking the lower divisions here. Doesn't mean every club has a higher one. But you shouldn't rule out that talent pool. And I think Ian Fuller is proving it, proves it in his first year, proved it against D.C. United on Wednesday night.

That team, the story, it's just magical, man. It really is. Like, I wish I had better words for it. What an unbelievable win. What an unbelievable run. Like, I'm so very jealous that you got to watch with. Suz. Like, I wish that I was there with you too. What an incredible experience.

I'm glad I wasn't at the stadium because that seemed like a worst experience than what I ended up doing and watching. Yeah, Douglas was there. I think Gregory may have been there as well. Brutal experience for the DC fans. And let me add a little bit to this experience for Wad Knox. So they played on the weekend at Portland Hearts of Pine, which was Portland's home opener. I don't know if anyone has, if everyone has seen this, but it was like a terrible injury

early in this game, Mashai Wada broke his ankle, like, fully, and there was, like, a 15-minute stoppage in that game. So then Juan Knox has got back on the field, and that's always weird. Like, after that, people are, you know, you're playing what speed, your mind's in other places. They then missed their connecting flight the next day and travel

and got home Sunday at, like, midnight. And then the game was on Wednesday, so they had to turn around and get to D.C. And this is for a lower division team where, you know, they had goals in Open Cup and I think those goals were kind of accomplished and so like you weren't focusing towards this game fully. So to then

go in there and put the performance on that they put on and like with the extra time they played 16 players and everyone looked like they were up to the standard for league one team, not even a championship team they are the only league, their only third division team because Chattanooga

and Next Pro and all that stuff. They're the only third division team to get an upset in this round. They were the only lower division team last night to even get a victory. And so they're one of three cup sets. They're the last league one team left. So they get a prize of I think $50,000 for being the last team in your division to go the furthest. And now they play Columbus, which like they have the worst history in Open Cup. They've been terrible this year. It's not that far a trip. We looked it up. It's like five hours driving. So I'm hoping the Knox fans get in the car and we get a little bit of Friday night

light style caravan up through Tennessee with getting mojo hojo booby miles whatever it was on the front of it but like this is this is the magic of all of this this is the magic of the cup I wish they could host some of these games oh man I win changer yeah and and so the three lowered the three non-mLS teams that are still alive all three of them are on the road it's just how the balls bounced blame and howieville and Colorado polling him. Nice. If Louisville and Colorado win, they would play each other in the,

what would be the quarterfinals. Yeah, because Louisville and in Colorado Springs are in the same bracket. That's already like pre-assigned into the next round. So you'd guarantee a USL team in the semifinals, which is cool, but you'd also eliminate each other, which also sucks at the same time.

Louisville is going to play Houston. That doesn't feel like a huge if. If you could beat Austin, and you're watching what's going on, then Houston is fully in play. And the Colorado Springs Rapids game, I think it's just going to be a rock fight. It'll be fun.

We're going to talk to Matt in a second. He loves that. He wants it. That's what his team identifies as. Colorado Springs equally there, happy to do it. Obviously, altitude won't be an advantage for either of these teams.

So it's going to be a huge game. It's going to be awesome to watch. So really fun round of the Open Cup so far. But let's dig into our interview now with Matt Wells. How's it going, David? Good to see you. Good to see you as well. It's been fun. Listening from afar to the postgame press conferences, getting some little sneak peeks of you in the locker room as well. And obviously watching the games, which I will tell you, Monday show started with Colorado Rapids or must watch. They are fun. They are entertaining. How happy were you with the performance this weekend and where this team sits in your first year?

I mean, definitely the cameras in the dress room is a big change for me. It's not really something that's typically done in England. So I've seen a few clips back. I definitely have to watch my language when the cameras are about. But that's all good. And I'm glad it's coming across what we're trying to create here. And from the outset, I wanted to do something special for the fans. I really believe that my style of play and my football is something every fan,

wants to see attacking football, a team on the pitch that's hungry to score goals and really respects the defensive side of the game, but we do it in a special way where we're constantly trying to press, constantly trying to put the opponent under pressure because we want the ball. And that's why every say to players is why we started playing this game when we were young kids is to have the ball. So that's what we try and put onto the pitch. And so far, it's coming across, but a lot of work still to do. You have moved countries in the past. you've seen coaches changes at clubs that you've been consistent at. As you sort of go to take on this challenge,

what are the keys to you for a successful transition for yourself and for the club? Yeah, I think for me personally, it's a lot about feeling settled here and feeling at home and my wife and daughter, obviously, are the most important things in my life. And they agreed to move over with me, which was obviously a deal breaker if they weren't willing to come. So of course, eternally grateful for them and the way they support me.

And now we're so happy here as a family. It's an incredible city. It's a great place. So on a personal level, we're loving it. And then professionally, it's exactly the same. It's about working with like-minded people. For me, I'm always looking for ambition, mentality to win, because that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. I'm desperate to win, desperate to bring success here to Colorado, but desperate to do it in a way, like I said before,

that fans can identify with. I want excitement, I want buzz, I want the fans desperate to come and watch games. That was something through the interview process that was expressed that maybe we need to create something that the fans can really tap into and that was music to my ears because I think that's naturally what my football does.

I don't think fans want to come and watch us just playing a low block and try and defend. And football's a low scoring game. You can still win games that way. Plenty of coaches try it and plenty of coaches do it successfully. But that's not how I see the game. I want to see us from minute one to minute 95, dominate the football match, take control of the ball,

constantly have attacking intention. And it's been great so far the games, because in spells where we've had that, we've looked devastating. And there's been plenty of spells where we've lost that, Toronto away. As soon as we went to and a while, we stopped trying to really attack

and we start trying to play just passive keepball, we got punished and we deserve to get punished, even though the context of the game was we went down to nine men when we were still two one up and we shouldn't have done it was a poor decision but still my message to the players was lads if we lose the attacking intention if we're just on the pitch to just play tippy tapy passive possession then forget about it whereas if we're out there two goals three goals four goals five goals six goals if that's our mentality then we're a very difficult team to stop so

we're getting there how do you shift your message in i'll take two games context that toronto game and the seattle game where the seattle game felt a very difficult like the intention was there, but maybe the quality in playing it out wasn't where Toronto, as you said, the intention went away and that leads to the loss. How do you sort of message those to this team where it feels like there is a lot of risk that has to be taken by the players to make this go? Yeah, I think you're always battling the short term and the long term. So the short term is you're playing against Seattle. You want three points.

You want to put in a good performance. But also my job is to be analytical and understand that, okay, for long-term success of playing this way, which is a brand new style to the guys that they've never experienced for, all we've had is a pre-season with a couple of friendlies. And okay, we did well in some, not so well in the others. But I have to understand that in the back of my mind, Seattle, unfortunately, is a necessary part of the journey.

We have to experience that. And it was the springboard for the success we've had since then, because it was the best lesson we could learn that. If we don't turn up with the right personality to play, If we're a little bit fearful, but we have a culture of playing, then you're stuck in that horrible spell where you're playing out from the back, but you're not brave enough to play forward and turn with the ball and be aggressive with the ball.

Well, now you're just going to play build-up football in your own penalty box, and you're one mistake away from losing the ball, and you're not progressing up the pitch. So we're going to do it anyway, so we might as well fully commit to it. And that was a great lesson, because since then, we've every game, and by no means that we've been perfect, but every game we've had the right mentality

and the right intention to play our football. And then you'll do it with varying degrees of success. And then as a coach, I get to feed back, okay, lads, this worked because of this. But this passage here didn't work because David, you were in the wrong position. Or David, look there, you should have bounced to him, but you passed to him and now we had to start again

instead of going forward. So you're always refining and feeding back the details. But for me, at this early stage, it's more about seeing the personality, the courage, the mentality, to go and play. And then after that, we can improve the details. One of the things with this group is there were a chunk of players that were brought in in the preseason,

big additions like Adonte Sealy. And now we see a couple more moves now happen right up against the transfer window closing and some players that can have a big impact in Georgie Minungu, Loik Williams. How do you now manage competition inside the team and these players all sort of fighting for these minutes? Yeah, I sort of look at the other way that the competition is the thing that manages the team. It's not me managing the competition. That's exactly what I won. I said from day one, I'm not going to be for everyone.

But if you're a player that wants to be in a tough environment where you're pushed way beyond the limits you thought existed physically, mentally. You're constantly pushed. You're constantly shouted at, as you can hear from my throat. And you're constantly put on edge in terms of new players coming in. in and you have to fight for the shirt every week to hang on to the shirt. If that's the environment you want, then you're definitely for me. If you want comfort and you want a guaranteed start in place in this team, you're not in the right environment.

You're better off leaving the building and going somewhere else where someone else can give you that because that's not an assurance that I will give to anyone in this squad. Because for me, healthy, high performance is that every training session on a Tuesday and Wednesday, you are fighting for the shirt on Saturday. I think if it gets to a point where 11 players know we're the starters and the remaining eight or nine know no matter what they do, the head coach is not going to start them in the next game, I don't see how you can create a top high performance environment where you're pushing each other every day to improve.

So I think that's the beauty of being here now is that if you ask any of the guys, the team for into Miami, all of them would say, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to start. I hope I start, but I'm not sure. I think the Gaffa might play him or he might play him. And that's exactly why I want. I won 18, 19 guys feeling like at any given moment, the head coach is going to give me a start.

And yeah, so far, I think we're achieving that. It was a huge performance against Houston, open cup this week as well. And then, as you mentioned, Inter Miami coming up, 30th anniversary of the club, over 65,000 tickets have been sold at Mile High Stadium. What does this moment mean to you and to the club in sort of, What do you make of what this week will be? Yeah, it's exciting. I think it's a massive moment for the club,

but it's a massive moment for this group of players. I think they're in a place now where they really believe in the football that we're playing. They're playing with confidence. They're playing with conviction. They felt it, which is the most important thing to me, they felt that when they play this way, they can have results like 6-2 against Houston.

They can have results like 4-1 against the Galaxy, 4-1 against KC, 2-0 against. against Portland. So I think they feel that when they play our football against anyone, we can compete. And that's what we're desperate to do on Saturday against Miami. I think the amount of fans we have coming out is incredible because it shows that there's something to latch onto to them. There's belief there. There's hope there. There's excitement there. And that's one. I'd hate to think there's fans coming to our games where they're already resigned to defeat or they're resigned to a poor performance. I think at the moment, we're getting into a place, which is my main goal,

where our fan base feels like, I tell you what, I want to go and watch the rapids. Because win, lose or draw, we know they're going to empty the tank. We know they're going to play unbelievable attacking football. And there's loads of individuals within that team that we believe in. And so to have that many numbers already coming to the game on Saturday is very, very special. Now it's on us to repay their faith. Let's talk a little bit about big picture what you've learned so far about the league. You obviously knew to Major League Soccer. As I said, you've worked across England as well as in Central Europe and coming to this league now and watching the teams you've watched and watching your team interact.

What do you make of where Major League Soccer stands and sort of what succeeds in it and maybe what does it? I think it's in a great place. It's difficult for me to speak for its evolution because I've only been watching. from afar, but from a far, certainly from in England, the profile of the MLS has been rising year on year because of the calibre of player, really, that's been going over to the league. It still hasn't had incredible exposure as in consistency on TV, but there's always more and more highlights packages and as an avid follower of football, I was always watching. But now having experienced the league, I've been really, really impressed with, I knew the calibre a player,

but I think the thing that's impressed me most is the caliber of coaching, the caliber of setup of each team. Every week you're facing a different challenge. You're facing a group of top individual players. But they're always organized well. There's always different challenges in terms of how they're going to press. We're a team that wants the ball. So I'm always analysing, okay, how are they going to press? What passes do we need to pay to attract the opponent so we can then break out?

and play our football and every week's different. So it's been a great challenge from that respect. I think playing then the Open Cup against the team, two divisions below, to see the, when I watch them, to think, wow, I don't see much difference between them and a Houston or them and the other teams that have analyzed. And they look so good on video. I was thinking, wow, we have to prepare this game.

Well, if we're 5% off it, we're going to be out of this cup. And we approach that game properly with great detail, with the right mentality, the right attitude, and still you saw how the game played out last night. I could have gone either way. It was such a difficult, difficult game. Physically, they're excellent. Tactically, they are well organized.

So for me, MLS and also, I guess, U.S. soccer, I think it's in a really, really strong place. And I think we're going to find out in the next seven days playing Miami, Los Angeles and Vancouver, the last two of them being away from home. It doesn't get much better than that. It doesn't get much bigger of a challenge than that. So we're excited.

The one zero win over Union Omaha gets you into a Colorado Derby against Colorado Springs, which is an experience on its own. How excited are you for that game and what this competition can mean for your team, which, you know, the chance to experience knockout and potentially win a trophy early in a season? I mean, when the guys were warming up yesterday for the game, I don't go out to the warm up. I stay in my office and just gather my thoughts for the game and plan. best case substitutions and, okay, what,

try and foresee what tactical things could happen in the game. And meanwhile, I had on TV, I had Colorado against KC. And watching them was like, this is no fluke. This is no, the way they're playing. That's going to be a real tough game for us, just in the way that Union was. So when it comes around to that, we'll have to make sure we're fully prepared,

physically, mentally, tactically, to go and put on a great performance. Because whilst it is an opportunity, to get to the next round. It is also a match where I see a team that can compete with us and a team that can cause us problems. So we have to be ready for that challenge when it comes about.

But there's no question. I said, I joked when I first came that I want to win every single award except the Fair Play Award. I want to turn us into an aggressive team, a team that is so dynamic, teams don't want to play against us, but fans love watching us. That's my goal. If I can sort of state my goal,

in a non-footballing term is that if I can get to a point where every single fan of the MLS is desperate to watch the Rapids, but every single team fears playing against the Rapids, then we're doing something well. And that's hopefully what we made the first few steps towards creating that. One of the big moments already in a short amount of time is you made history last night. Nathan Chumba is the youngest debutante in Colorado Rapids history. What do you see in the young players that you have at your disposal and their, and they're, preparation and where they sit in their ability to affect the first team. Yeah, obviously an amazing night for Nathan, for his family, but also also for the club. And I think also for the

academy and every young player in the organization, that's the thing I said in my press conference yesterday after the game that if you're not a young player sat there excited by Nathan making his debut at 15 years old and thinking, well, all that is is a signal of intention that that can happen to me. As long as I show the right mentality, the right attitude, the right habits, listen to my coaches, make sure there's good feedback coming to the head coach from whatever age group they're in.

And if they're ticking all those boxes, they should see from Nathan's example that, wow, we've got a head coach here and a staff that will really back the youth and will put us in the team. And ultimately, we are the youngest team in the MLS, if you look at the data. So you talk about the academy,

but even our first team is extremely young. So we're building a sort of youth movement here where there's, of course, we have some great experience as well because that's very important for team performance. You need that. But I'm really excited by the young players we have in the first team and also the young players we have underneath it. I think the key for them is they work with the top mentality every day to try and break into this team and have an impact. But it's exciting times for us as a club. And like you said, breaking records with Nathan, but we're also top goal scorers in the MLS.

for also the youngest team in the MLS one, trying to create this team of extremes. The worst thing for me at the moment would be we're six out of ten. I think even in our performance levels, what's really pleasing is we've seen moments of nine out of ten. We definitely also see moments of two out of ten. But at this stage, I don't mind that because it shows we're capable of extremes,

whereas if we're constantly around five, six out of ten, okay, we're going to be a playoff team. Maybe we'll get to the playoffs and we'll lose in the first round. but for me to see these extremes at the moment tells me we can create something special. You, I'm sure you will get asked this besides me, but you've worked for a long time in Tottenham. You worked Club Bruges as well. I think two clubs that people associate with great youth development. I'm curious with Achumba, Darren Yappy, all the young players you have,

where these players maybe stand up against some of the international prospects you've watched and where the development for a club like Colorado. and where, you know, MLS or American players stands up against the global scene. Yeah, ultimately, those guys that you mentioned and the other young guys, I'm a big believer, they'll get to the level that their mind decides is the limit. And if, and that's where I'm trying to help them, in many different ways, is if we can smash those limits and say there are no limits, let's just turn up every day to work and work to improve,

work to become the best player you can be, listen to the coach, take the feedback, watch best practice, watch your clips with a critical eye. Get feedback on your performance. Be mature enough to say, yeah, I can do better there. Don't make excuses. All of these things, there is no limit. Because we have great talent here.

We have the likes that you mentioned, but we also have Wayne Frederick, Jackson and Travis. These guys are having incredible seasons. Lucas Herrington, 18 years old, playing centerback in the MLS, getting called up to the Australian national team. If you asked him at the start of the season, which I did before, just as I took the job,

before we'd even started, what his goals and expectations were for this season. It was, I'd love to get some minutes. So instantly, you're putting a limit on yourself here. And I always say in different language this, no, definitely eradicate that from your mind. That cannot be your goal and intention. Like, come in to be the best centerback in the MLS.

And then take the feedback and just every day look at yourself through that lens. And then who knows where you'll end up. You'll get to the level that you were destined to get to if you have the right mentality. So we're not there. yet with all of the guys. I still see moments where they are inhibiting themselves and or maybe their mentality is not perfect. Their attitude's not perfect in every moment, but they've got a coach that will lose his throat, shouting at them every day to demand that they get to that level. And that's

because I love seeing people reach their potential. I had experiences as a young player where I felt coaches limited me. I was playing in midfield and they didn't want me to get on the ball. They wanted to play long ball because they felt it was a bit too risky. And I used to hate that. And I always vowed when I go into coaching, there'll never be a player in my team that feels like the coach doesn't believe in me. Or he tweaks the style of play because he's trying to hide my deficiencies. That's not what I'm about. So that's why we play with great risks. That's why we play with great personalities because I want to see how the guys perform in that arena. And the Miami game will be the best test playing in front of 65,000. Let's see what we're about.

It's going to be fun. It is a huge test, as you said, a big opportunity for this club. And you're losing your voice. We're hearing the trainings are dog fights. I think Paxton Aronson said, I survived preseason with Matt Wells. So it sounds like, I guess fun would be a phrase you could use inside of it. But as I said, it's been officially fun from the outside. And Colorado Rapids have hit must watch territory in Major League Soccer. So Matt, thanks for taking the time to join us. And hopefully we get to do this a lot more going forward. I appreciate David. Great to speak to you. All right. Let's stick into our USM&T segment. As we do every single week, we get Tommy Scoops out the way now. We bring in the real man, the legend, the armchair himself, Matt Doyle. Doyle, you survived drinking wine for a full weekend and you're back with me.

Survived by the skin of my teeth. But it's good to be back talking soccer again. It was jarring to not watch any MLS this weekend. I subsisted on highlights and box scores. Not super comfortable with that, but that gave me an excuse to stay up till 1.30 a.m. watching Nashville get the win in the S-TECA. The first MLS team ever, I think, to get an actual win in the S-TECA. Yeah. Epic performance. Huge moment. No Sam-Surge, of course. Big win for Nashville. And Nashville will actually work their way into this conversation somehow as we go through it. So obviously we got to start with the big story in U.S. soccer land.

And that is, of course, Matt Crocker, the report coming out. I don't know that it was announced. I think it was a report that he is leaving U.S. soccer effective immediately as the sporting director and taking the same position in Saudi Arabia. So leaving roughly a little less than two months before a home world cup that he was hired from Southampton to help organize for the U.S. So I think we'd like to spend about 15 minutes talking about the Saudi Arabian national team, the program, up and coming players, the future, and what Matt Crocker can bring to that. But I think I did a quick reaction video to this. I think, listen, we can get out of the way first.

Matt Crocker is not American. This is not the most passionate thing he's ever done in his life. And now he's going to Saudi Arabia. And I would argue that's probably not the most passionate thing he's ever going to do in his life either. I think all the jokes have been made about checks clearing and money counting and all that type of stuff. It is funny. This one is just funny, which is they're hosting the 2034 World Cup. So you'd assume that's some part of the connection of how he ends up at that job.

Wouldn't you want him to work through hosting the 2026 World Cup? Right. Just to get that taste. Yeah. No, it's a good point. And that makes me feel like maybe it was Crocker's people who were pushing for this because This is the best time. It's the best time for him to leave because his stock is at the hot.

This is like when Yergan got the extension before the World Cup because what could possibly go wrong, right? So it's, this feels like Crocker leveraged his position and got a zero added to his bank account. And honestly, I don't think it matters at all. Like he's not going to need to do an emergency PowerPoint deck. sometime in the next two months to inspire the team and to you know there's nothing like his job was done when he hired emma hayes and maricio patchitino that was 95% of his job and i think that you know he was always going to be a mercenary this as you said this was not a passionate project for him that's fine that's your money makes makes the world go round um good luck and i don't like

I'm not going to miss him. I'm not going to, I don't think this changes anything about the U.S. team's preparation or prospects for the World Cup. Yeah, I think he was pretty heavily involved in like base camp, organization, travel, all that type of stuff, resourcing around it, which I think a lot of that's already done. So to your point, like, that doesn't change right now. And then obviously most of his other job, which is hiring the coaches, hiring the whole pipeline, helping organize plans and stuff for youth national team stuff.

That doesn't affect the 2026 USM&T, which is the most important thing at this time. So I don't disagree with you on that front of things. I think like the role has some importance. Also, the credit on the Emma Hayes stuff is not you. Like everyone's doing it. Emma was like, I owe so much of the U.S. I wanted this job forever.

Like, I'm sorry, but I think empty chair could have hired Emma Hayes for that job. You know what? You're right. but also do you really put it past U.S. soccer? No, I do not. To screw that up. Like, there's a, if all you do is pluck the low hanging fruit and just do it well, then you're going to be pretty good at most executive jobs.

That's my opinion, having spent almost a lifetime looking at how these people work. And he did that with the Emma Hayes thing. Obviously, it was, you know, more rugged on the men side. We all saw the Jesse Marsh, you know, interview. with what was that, give me sport a couple weeks ago where I think Matt Crocker was really trying to hire Jesse Marsh. And then he kind of screwed that one up with influence from the players and ended up with Greg Burhalter. And the process was broken. And then the second process to fire Greg Burhalter and replace him with Marcia Poitititino was kind of a mess as well.

But I will say, and I don't particularly like this, but I think the way it is, a certain segment of U.S. fandom, which includes, I think, think a lot of U.S. soccer mega donors and super involved need to hear someone with an English accent assuring them that everything's okay, Daddy is here. And I think that's what Matt Crocker was doing. And then he doubled down on that by hiring a coach that they had heard of. And I think if you combine those two things in terms of what he did for the fan base at a time where, like my perspective, I certainly didn't need it, but I think the fan base probably needed it. I do think it kind of jolted a little bit of life back into the program. Now, those might be famous last words, because we all saw what happened, you know, these past two friendlies and maybe

that carries into the group stage. Maybe we get groups. And then we look at Matt Crocker and Maricio Pachitino and everything they did as a failure on the men's side. And that's what it would be. But I I understand the levers that were being used here, both in putting Matt Crocker into this position and then the decisions he made on the men's side when he was doing the most important job that he has, which is to hire the national team coach. And that's where the big worry, I think,

and the big effect of all of this comes in, which is in 2022, after the World Cup, it took the U.S. men's national team seven months to rehire Greg Burrhalter. And then it actually ended up taking him another two months to start working because he needed time to learn the program and figure out what his effect would be on the team and all of that. And then a year later, they fired him and then they go and get Mauricio Pocitino.

And so I think the big effect of this is now the process going out of this World Cup. I would be surprised if Pocitino stays, Pocitino goes far enough and he wants the job. It's his. My understanding is he doesn't live in the U.S. right now. and that is technically quote unquote a requirement. So that would have to change. And yeah, if he does well,

it feels like he will leave for other options. Real Madrid seems like maybe being a central one. Although when you're listening to this, they may have come back against Byron. And it might be our below his job at that point anyway. But whatever job it is in Europe, maybe it's Statenham and trying to get them bounce back up or whatever it is. Whatever job that is, if the U.S. goes far enough and they want to rehire him,

he probably doesn't want to come back. And if they do poorly, then you're, stuck in a spot where do you want to go back with him and whatnot. Either way, as we have learned, there is like a very arduous review process that has to occur. And that obviously was thrown off by the claims by the Raina family against Greg Burhalter and the investigation and all of that last time. But I'd be shocked if it was quick again. So I think you end up in a place where you need someone coming in to replace him and that's going to be their biggest effect. Now you have a CEO in J.T. Batson who is in charge of a lot of the sporting side.

We know a Gucci-on-Yewu who was working under Matt Crocker, alongside the C.O. In Dan Helfich, who is one of the guys you talked about. He was like a longtime Deloitte executive, but is a massive soccer fan. I think he was broadcasting Georgetown Hoyag games for like fun over the last like 12 years, because I've listened to him call those games. All of these people are involved. So there are people around who are the soccer people. And of course, the president happens to be a former U.S. Women's National Team World Cup winner in Sydney, Parlo-Cone.

So you're probably in a better spot than when Sunil was hiring Juergen-Klinzman off the back of a napkin because he thought he was cool and all of that. But you still technically wanted to lean on someone in this position to be able to run this process. And I think that's where the hit comes with this, which is classic U.S. soccer. I mean, you talked about the Clemsman extension of not setting yourself up to be better tomorrow than you are today. Yeah, but as you said, you know, Cindy Parlokone is still there. J.T. Batson's still there. Gucci Ania was still there. And Dan Helfich is still there. And, you know, those guys are all invested. They're all sickos. They are all people who care a lot about the program. Though I will say our good friend, Leander Schlarkins, on blue sky, he, you know, has connections there. And he said, this came out of the blue, especially for Cindy Parlocon, that, like, as recently as two weeks ago, she was raving. about Matt Crocker and what a difference he had made and everything.

So maybe not as insubstantial a move as is I'm making it out to be, but still, I would be shocked if one of those people can't fill Matt Crocker's shoes. I hope it's gooch, given what, you know, the face he presents on that job, given the career that he had both for club and country. And, you know, that included coming through the youth pipeline back when, you know, you know, Bradenton was still a thing, but he also played college soccer for a year. He played in Europe, at a great club in A.C. Milan and a number of other stops as well, but also in MLS. And he played in World Cups. So he kind of checks all those boxes and he apprenticed, right?

He did this for the past three, four years. So I hope it's him, but I hope when they do cast that net, I hope a guy like Garth Lagerway gets a look at other MLSGMs like it would be it you know Tyler Heaps or who am I forgetting Dave there should be others so I think Bez will get brought up obviously we're seeing rumors or reports that came out that he's interested in going back to Columbus from he's running this night sport group which owns Bournemouth and a French team and a New Zealand team and other stuff I think he would be towards the top of this list. And you mentioned Heaps, who was a data analyst and a video analyst, I think, at U.S.

soccer, then at Monaco and now running San Diego. I think those would be the main names you'd bring up. And last time we kind of did an exercise like this, it was that GM role, which Ernie Stewart ended up taking over, which I think from my conversations, a lot of these people, they were like, that doesn't really do anything. Like, that job didn't have any influence. And so I think a lot of the like Bez's and Garts took themselves out of that conversation. This is different.

This is you set the direction of the soccer that the Federation plays. You are able to run things through to the youth teams. And they now have this facility, which changes the amount that you can bring teams in. You can have teams around you. You can engage with the coaches. Like they used to make them live in Chicago, which was just a fake thing. I don't think the U.S. has run a camp in Chicago in like 35 years, but everyone had to live there. Now you live 10 minutes away from a facility that has, excuse me,

the fields that you play on and all of that. So I do think it's more, this job is more engaging and interesting to the characters we just mentioned. I'd be shocked if Tyler Heaps left for it because like two years in, you're doing this thing that's cool. You've got this billionaire owner, all of that. But like, he's married to the captain of the U.S. women's national team. I think this program means something to them.

And I wouldn't be shocked if that was a conversation they were open to having. those are the main ones though that I would say which are all people that have tight connections to U.S. soccer they care like you just mentioned with all the sickos that are in there and all of them have a decent chunk of experience that I think can bring something to this job yeah and then the the job becomes what I was talking about with Matt Crocker the most important part of this job is hiring the head coach and we assume that that is going to happen after this World Cup I don't like Murrifio Pach Trinino does not look like a person who's particularly enjoying this job.

You know, even if the U.S. wins the World Cup, I don't think he's coming back for a second cycle. So that is going to be what the first major thing on the plate of whoever is in this job. And that kind of brings us to our national discussion. Yeah, you already finished it. Like we don't even have to, we don't have to hire anyone. Doyle, do you want to anoint BJ Callahan right now as a next-it coach? If you had to pick a front run, well, first of all, well, we have to understand that consultants have got to wet their beaks.

So this is not going to be a quick product, whether it's the obvious choice, which at this point, is B.J. Callahan or somebody out of left field that we've never heard of or somebody out of left field that we have heard of, the next Maricio Poitino. The consultants will be involved for six months. Okay. There will be checks written. Everybody understands that, right? But BJ Callahan has, we talk about, I think, culture and ambition, as much as we talk about style when, you know, how teams play and what we like about them. And BJ Callahan has done so much to change the culture for Nashville SC. And we're talking about this the day after they, like I said, became the first ever of MLS team to win at the Azteca. and that culture is twofold both in terms of trusting young players to take on bigger and bigger roles while coaching them up at the same time and turning them into better players, but also playing more expansive and aggressive soccer.

And that's how players want to play. Players will do what Minnesota did last year and just sit behind the ball for 88 minutes and try to hit on the counter and long throws. They will if that's the way that they think they can best win. But there's an expiration date on that. There's a shot clock on it. It runs out because nobody really wants to play that way. Same thing with the Philadelphia Union, Red Bulls,

Smashmouth, Energy Drink Soccer. Players will do that. But you run out of time with it. What they really want to do is pass the ball and play actual soccer. And BJ Callahan got there and turned Nashville around overnight and then has kept layering and layering and layering. layering over it to the point where they are one of the most attractive attacking teams in the league without doing a full all at once roster overhaul. And he's gotten more out of young players

like Reed Baker Whiting, who's been really good this year that they acquired from the centers, and Matt Corcoran, who was kind of in, you know, career limbo because he had been this high level prospect who didn't quite find the right career path. Nashville got him on the cheap, and now he's playing must-win minutes in the Azteca and the Conquitcah champions, the Champions League. Like that is not something that people saw from Matt Corcoran a year and a half ago. BJ Callahan did. But he also is getting the most out of guys like Hani Mukdar and Sam Surge,

these high-p's. Honey has been great since basically the middle of year two. Sam-surge looked like a bust before BJKal. So melding this all together the way he has. and then having U.S. national team experience on top of that. Whatever you think of his tenure, and I think it was pretty good, maybe not as good as undefeated, baby. Yeah.

There's a certain segment of the fan base that maybe he operates it a little bit. He was the usurped coach. His bloodline gives him rights to the kingdom. He owns the crown and we are going to build an army out in the peasants and storm the capital. Everything is Game of Thrones all over again. Everything always is. I just listen to a six part podcast. series about the fall of the Incas.

So I'm locked in there. You're going to have to send me that after the show. Okay. It sounds dope. But he, like, he, he, he is the one who I think the fans would probably want. And given the relationship, he apparently had with those players, I think the players would want him too. And I'm not super inclined to take the order to, like to wait that too much.

But it's not, it's still not nothing. Yeah. I mean, it's spying, which is. when he steps in the room day one, I think people are going to at least be open to hearing his ideas and hearing what he has to do. And I think the belief stuff on Nashville is huge of, they were the team that were like,

can we sit in counter and hold? And now they are brave enough to go to enter Miami and play them toe to toe and go to Club America and believe that they have a chance at winning at the Azteca thing that no team has ever done. They dominate games when they get the opportunities. They have played up to their level, I think, which is really impressive at times of like,

you have big expectations about teams and a lot of times they falter and it can be pressure and all that thing all that and that they haven't done which i think is interesting coming out of this listen with 48 teams and whatever they're going to make the world cup but like they didn't have qualifying this time concaf qualifying is the hardest thing u.s teams have had to do i believe they should get out with 48 teams in the structure and whatever but just being able to say hey we're going to get the results against costa rica we need to get at home in cincinnati has not been obvious in the past and saying we're going to go and get the draw at Honduras

that we need to get because that's what it is. And I think he's shown capable of doing that. And obviously the connection he has to the Federation and all of that over the years probably helps in understanding the politics and how it all works and what you're trying to deal with and what you have to work through.

So he makes a lot of... There's a prophecy. Every time there is an underperforming, imported coach brought in, the program has to be saved by a guy from New Jersey. And B.J. Callahan is not from North Jersey. He's from the South Jersey. He's from the part of Jersey that we don't really think of when people think of U.S. soccer, but he's still from New Jersey. So he fulfills the prophecy.

He's going to have to shave his head, though. Yeah. We'll have to have a talk with him. That'll be the consultant's job to convince him that that's what's necessary. We should reach out to Supercutt and see if we can get a second. where we chase him around and trying to get him to shave his head to join all of us. But yeah, it will obviously, this will be the big role for whoever takes over. So the question now is, can the U.S. soccer get someone in place fast enough to be able to start this process when they should?

Or are we looking at an interim manager for the start? Which would be fascinating because Udiceem Poach is taking his staff, unlike where B.J. Callahan stepped in after Greg Burhalter. So like, are we looking at Peter Vermeis three months of interim manager after the World Cup? Is Caleb Porter calling? Like, all of this is going to be interesting. So, um, on, let's get off the coaching side. Let's talk a little players first.

I mentioned on Monday show Tyler Adams returned 20 minutes after being out over a month, uh, for Bournemouth and their victory over Arsenal. It's huge Doyle sort of what do you make of, of what Tyler is for this team? how important his health is. I'm still a little worried that he seems so irreplaceable for the U.S. and I think that is part of the, you know, the downside of hiring Maricio Pochitinos. He took so long to actually learn the roster. And we never, well, I don't want to say never, but because eventually he got there

with Christian Roldan, who's as close to a like-to-like as there is for Tyler in, in the pool, I'm still a little disappointed. Roldon didn't start and go 60 minutes in both of those games this past camp because that would have given us a pretty decent snapshot of whether or not he can do it. But Tyler, because of that, because of who he is as a player, I think remains the most important player on the U.S. roster. Because it's not only defensively, he's just a level above what the other defensive midfielers bring, but that creates attack because he defends on the front foot unlike few people.

players, nobody else in the pool and few players in the world. And those turnovers high up the pitch, those are chances. Yeah, it just feels like tone. Yeah. You're going to come out in some of these games. And let's be real, looking at the group, we kind of expect the U.S. to have possession. But the energy that you can press with, the way you close down, like, the advantage the U.S. should have is there should be large stretches of the three group stage games where it feels

suffocating for Australia, Paraguay, and Turkey. And that should be because of the crowd, because of the environment, because of the pressure. But like, that's all the dynamite and what sparks and lights the fuse is going to be the way the U.S. plays. And Tyler is pretty much the only guy, I think, who can create that. Weston Ken, like when he's on, on, on, and it's like he's on in pressing. And when you're playing to him, he's playing well. and like he becomes this dominant force,

but it's not really his personality, and it is all for Tyler. So I think that's where, as you said, the way he can affect the attack and the counter pressing and the initial press and all of that, that's the stuff that you just could feel the U.S. missing in these two games against Portugal and Belgium.

You know, they started well against Portugal. Yeah. Yeah, the first 20 minutes against Portugal were actually really good. I tortured myself and went back and watched that. It's just mischances. Tom yelled at me for watching the Belgian, game twice. So I wish you had said that six days ago. So you put it on a stop 10. The thing I will say is like we saw some of that. We saw a lot of that from Christian

rolled on against Australia. And I wanted to see more of it. And obviously doing it against Australia is very, very relevant to this discussion and this summer. I just wish you made seeing more of it against higher level competition. Because you know if he plays in the group stage and we get out of the group, the conversation would be like, well, I don't know if he can do it against ex opponent at this level, which was something we potentially could have answered in that game. So huge moment there to get Tyler back. We'll talk to it through on Monday some big goals scored for Bolligan and some other players on the weekend. But the last thing we wanted to bring up before we got out of here is the chatter that everyone's having, which is the young players that

are breaking through in major league soccer that are USMNT eligible and the potential that one of them could sneak onto the roster. It probably becomes more and more possible, unfortunately, with injuries and the way the roster then continues to progress. I've got three names in here. I think they are probably the top of the list for like young breakout players. Unfortunately, David Martinez is unavailable for the US-man's national team in this. But it is, as we've talked about Xavier Gozo, I think Julian Halls on this list for sure. And we're going to put Nico Secures here as well. He's technically 20. But. Not a teenager, yeah, but it's okay.

If you do it in metric, it's fine. Yeah. We talked about the goes out thing, I think the two of us a couple of weeks ago. And it's not just us. If you look, I think Hercules Gomez is mentioning. Taylor 12th is mentioning it. Oh, the real names. Yeah, the professionals.

So it's not, you know, he's worth watching. And what he does off the dribble in terms of finishing off plays, we're not getting that from Tim Weyer right now. We're not even getting it from Christian Policic. You know, like having that kind of gravity with that kind of ability to put up box score numbers, that is, if somebody makes the World Cup roster as a surprise, it's someone like that. And I still think goes out as far and away the likeliest. But, I mean, Julian Hall, he's among the league leaders and gold contributions. He's the type of forward who finds tapins, but he's also the type of forward.

who gives you something defensively. And I'm convinced that the reason Potch hasn't really bought it from Ricardo PEPI is because Pepe is a really poor defensive forward. And they're writing columns about it in the Netherlands. I think ESPN Netherlands had one, a long one a few weeks ago. And it's about why he hasn't locked down a starting job for PSV either. So, you know, those two and then, you mentioned Nico Chikiris.

Well, Nico Chiris is a, like, he has that number 10's ability to unlock a defense, but he also plays on the front foot. Yeah. And he, like, he creates havoc defensively with his pressing. He's not the greatest pressing 10 in the world, but he's a lot better than Gio Raina. You know, he's not as good pressing as Brendan Aronson, but he's better on the ball. And he's certainly a better finisher. So, like, given.

given the U.S. weaknesses in those spots where we have players who are like all or nothing, right? Yeah. Joe is everything on the ball, nothing off. Brendan Aronson is everything against the ball, nothing with it. Like there suddenly feels like there's this narrow pathway for these three guys in particular that could maybe get them onto the roster. And my biggest regret is that Josh Winder didn't sign a U-22 deal with an MLS team at the start of the year, because I think if he played in MLS,

the way he played for the U-20s last autumn, then he would have a pathway as well. And God, do we need help in central defense, though. Yeah, I think, you know, they're all clearly three we're going to watch for post-World Cup. Nico Securus, we actually interviewed for this show. We're putting it out across the socials and asked him about he has Greek and Portuguese passports,

so he has potential. He said he is passionate about the U.S., and that's where he sits right now. which I don't think is a reason you call him up, but it is a factor that's floating out there. Yeah, I think we've talked about Gozo a lot. And to me,

Gozo is the cleanest, like, I know exactly how I'll use you. I know exactly the game state, but Julian Hall is too, which is latent games, you're my second forward. As you said,

you're going to press like a madman. He has the size to finish on set pieces and be a factor. You see against Inter Miami, that little bit of shifting creativity inside the box. He's not going to do a step over. and blow by a defender, but if there's little openings, he can get there. And there's also just like this blind confidence for all of them right now, which is like they think they're the best player in the world.

They're going to play that way. And that's what you're looking for in some moments like that. And I think, unfortunately, wherever we stand, they're all probably an injury at their position away from seriously being in the depth chart. And that goes with, I would have had George Imahilovich in the 10 conversation. And he's now out. So he's not an option. And so if something does happen to someone else in that pool or maybe someone looks at something and says, you know,

Giorina has played 52 minutes in the last seven and a half years. Maybe he doesn't make a World Cup. I'd be, you know, that'd be crazy of me to bring that up and use that as a legitimate argument in a conversation. Then that's where I think Nico Securis could enter. It's probably the longest shot for him because the position he plays is so central. And it's harder to like define exactly what he'll have to do. and he has zero experience doing it. For the other two, if you want a weapon off the bench,

I mean, you know, at some point, Potch is going to look at it and say, do I want Brian White in this position? And if I don't, then maybe I just go with the unknown and see what I can do. And you know Potch. If he gets around him and can smell, he can smell a player.

So maybe it's just getting them in the same vicinity. You get that call. Do you bring a bowl of lemons with you? Probably, yeah. Well, the call will already have been too late. So you probably need to, like start planning like random trips to Marbea or wherever it is on midweeks to see like can you just casually pass in a cafe and potch gets that whiff from downwind and looks up and it's able to see

a player right in front of it um but yeah we did this a few weeks ago we were like which of these young players do we think has a shot and i i was just doing it because i like talking about that stuff this feels real now and feels like a real opportunity do you give paxton erranton any opportunity in this as well playing in a high possession high pressing team and he's really playing the time he's no he's been really good for colorado but he doesn't produce enough goals and assists he he just does not you know those those final third entries for him happen a lot and they don't they don't have end product and i think that is a little bit tough when you're specifically at this point looking for end product from the u.s but i like him better

I think that his brother overall is a number 10. We haven't mentioned Adjie Mametti. We have not. He's just like he he's probably my favorite prospect out of all these guys. He's just he plays defensive midfield. He plays it so different from anyone else in the U.S. pool. And there's honestly at this point, I think there's just a physical level that he wouldn't be able to get to. He just turned seven.

and you have to be able to make people feel you physically in that position. And I'm not, like if he had been playing against Belgium, would DeBrena have felt, well, DeBrina didn't feel anybody in the U.S. on the day. But like, he's so much fun. I will say this. If you're listening to this and you're not watching the Red Bulls, they have become must watch every single week. And to bring it all the way, but not all the way, but to bring it back, we're talking about potential future U.S. national team coach.

Michael Bradley is putting himself in that discussion really, really quick, so we might be two cycles away from that one. Yeah, and, you know, it's just, it's probably a step too far to have him make his international debut in a warm-up game. Obviously, Mexico started a 15-year-old in a Gold Cup final last year in his first camp had more senior club appearances at that time than Mehdi does now. it's just you know he's nine months too late or a year too late or whatever it is um to like be able to prove that he can play in that spot but not too late for him to dunk all over rodrigo de paul

and like and like that is not he outplayed rodrigo de paul for a good chunk of that game and harvio maherano is definitely going to sign him at his next club he's going to be telling the tail when he's at valencia of this kid we've just going to bring over the red bulls that's It's the best player in the world. Jekiel Marsha Reddy is on the plane as well. They could take Ruval Kaama. That part, I don't care. So feel free to do it.

Okay. Well, we're always going to have a lot to talk about with this team going into the World Cup. We will do so once again next time, next week. We have Matt Doyle on. But I always appreciate you taking the time, Joel. Good to see that.