SoccerWise - MLS Edition: DeJuan Jones (Columbus Crew) & Mailbag W/Tom

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

Get your weekend started right with some soccer chat. Tom & David are joined by DeJuan Jones to talk about his career, what is like being traded, his goals, and the wide range of coaches he has played before. But first they breakdown the USMNT win in Jamaica and answer some big mailbag questions. 3:50 USMNT-JAM 16:30 All-time USMNT Favorites 23:15 Mail What Did We Learn From Miami’s Upset Loss 29:50 FC Cincinnati Drama 40:00 MLS Clubs Shopping In Belgium 46:00 End Of An Era In KC + Johnny Russell MLS Future 52:55 USL To MLS Coaching Hires 59:30 MLS Internal Transfer Market 1:03:50 DeJuan Jones InterviewSoccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

what's up everybody welcome back to soccer wise it is friday early morning-ish afternoon david goss tommy scoops hanging chilling ready to talk some soccer um tom we kind of said this it's a good relaxed relaxed feel for us. Like, we don't have a specific topic we have to hit. We'll talk USMNT. We'll talk MLS playoffs. We've got a huge mailbag that we'll answer some questions from. And we do have an interview that we've already recorded with DeJuan Jones,

which helps because we already know the show is great because DeJuan was phenomenal. But, like, it just, you know, we're hanging out talking soccer. This is what we do. Guys being dudes are just chilling. You know what I mean?'s just what that's just what we do that's it it's perfect that that's what you went with because my intro to the show was going to be you were just out in colorado for the week and i was just gonna go go broncos now go abs dude i got i love hockey that's uh it's one of those sports that i wish i had more time for but obviously there's a billion soccer games we watch all the time and then uh we're both as you guys who listen to the podcast probably don't know we're both huge knicks guys so um at some

point it's like hey man i don't think i'm gonna catch this devils versus winnipeg jets game tonight so and then the jets are having a great season i don't know if that's true i just made that up no they they were like 15 and one boom nailed it if you guys talking hockey i could just be a dude that talks sports that you're just born for this i gotta tell you walking around walking around the avs stadium just awesome really cool atmosphere obviously a really great team cool fans i'm just looking around it's a lot of dudes like this yeah a lot of mustache longer hair beanie on and i'm like bro what's up yeah i fit in here you fit in like and i was gonna come home i haven't done this i think i

think my wife would actually like throw something at me but you know there's a lot of dudes there with a mustache and mullet and they look pretty good you know what i'm saying and also the thing about the mullet is it's such a specific cut you probably need to have gotten it done in denver because no one else could do it for you it's not like there are experts in new jersey who could go you live in flor. Are you kidding me? That's got to be the mullet capital of the world. Yeah, maybe. I don't think it's in Miami downtown

specific where I am. We see a little bit less of it. There are a lot of haircuts here. Not that one specifically as often, but you're probably correct, Florida man rocking the mullet. This is my one hockey thing so i went to a a hockey college we didn't have a football team and our like big sport was hockey everyone would

show up to the game it would be sold out every week we play the beanpot in um td garden which is huge and it's like the four corners are all the different schools. The only thing that gets me into hockey is Miracle. And I quoted that movie three to seven times a week, every week for the four years I lived there. And every person would be on it every single time. A lot of dudes from Minnesota and Boston, oh, that'll go well. And pretty much just the whole movie.

What's up, you sieve? That's what we should call MLS goalkeepers now, is sieves. Because that's such a good line. The movie is so comically made. It's so perfect with all the accents and all of the insanity. All right. There's our hockey segment for the show. We had the longest pre-production that we've ever done for this show.

And our first four minutes were making hockey jokes off the roof. I love it uh and shout out to morgan who's repping quinnipiac hockey which is very good i think they won a national title two years ago they won the natty yeah but someone who was in my class is captain of the u.s women's national team now which is like my biggest claim to fame so shout out to kendall coin who is a legend um she will never hear this because she lives in a world that I'm not a part of. But still always a fan, still always repping. USMNT got back on the field in Jamaica, which is pretty cool. And I wish I had been there.

And as the game started, I was like, I should have gone to this game. I've been to one USA away game in CONCACAF. It was at Costa Rica. It was the clincher. Well, I guess not the clincher because we didn't really get the result but whatever it got everyone to the world's cup in 2018 um so that would have been cool and they got the one zero win so we'll talk about that as we go along um we have a ton of mailbag questions uh so thank you to everyone who sent them to us i love the mailbag i love that it gives me the reason to reach out to a lot of people and like ask them the questions.

Cause to be real, a lot of them are very high level and really, really smart questions. And one of the interesting things about MLS with the Canadian side and with USL and with NWSL, all this stuff is like, there's a lot of parties that there normally isn't one person who has an answer to a lot of this stuff. So you you gotta start to like go out and piece everything

together so i really enjoy that we're gonna get to do it today this week um we are not gonna get to all of them because there is a lot so we will continue to um go through them as we go along and a reminder mls cups on december 8th we're getting close to that and then we've got off season where we're gonna try and dig into some bigger topics. So keep sending me these. And I am pushing some of them into that to like give full episodes on or really dig into, or be a part of a larger conversation.

So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about some of the roster cuts that have happened in major league soccer, mainly RIP to Johnny Russell and to Amelia and their time with sporting Kansas city. It is not shocking, but still a surprise and the end of an era. And we'll talk about that. And your questions kind of will bring us all the rest of our topics as well.

I like that Eric is always in the chat telling me that MLS comes December 7th, not December 8th. Someone's already booked their travel. I guess you can't because you don't know where you're going. But someone's actually working around this. And we're just like kind of hanging out and making it up as we go along which is probably not what you want um for the people who are supposed to be you know locked in let's go to one of one of us said december 7th that's just did you know who but one of us did did you say it immediately yeah i didn't want to cut off i didn't want to cut off your momentum and we win

as a team we lose as a team that's all i'm gonna absolutely somebody said it and speaking of ricardo pepe leads the usmnt to the victory in jamaica el tren is back the hype is alive did you see the stat he is one of what five players now in usmnt history to score 12 goals before they turned 23. I think it was Landon, Pulisic, Josie, Pepe, and I don't remember the fifth one right now. I don't think it would be Dempsey because I think he probably was too old as he got into it, but I'm not sure. Either way, it shows you a little bit of what Pepe's done yet.

He's never been the locked-in starter on this team. He scores in the fifth minute, set up by who else? Christian Pulisic, who continues to play at a phenomenal level. then from there on it was conca calf baby penalty kicks fights grass fights grass and everything else in between mauricio pochettino baby welcome this is what we do uh how did you feel coming out of this one i felt good right like getting the result like i'm sick of having the argument or discussions around process or underlying numbers or whatever like this was a moral victory and stuff like like we kind of have over the last four to six years even when some of these games

and like again they're difficult games dude i'm kind of back to the point where it's just like did you get it done did you not get it done like at some if the national team is in a place where results matter more at more or as much as process like i'm glad that we're talking about it as a win after so before like i have a couple big takeaways but even the one that i don't think can count as one is just like how awesome christian pulisic is and i i i'm going to talk about the formation a little bit but i really really like him in this role where he could be a bit more free like you talk about that assist he kind of floated around where the ball was found a pocket of space immediately turned forward when he had

the opportunity drew in several more defenders and slipped ricardo pepe through like that is when he's at his best and i love seeing him in these spaces and watching him figure out new areas on the field where he's like okay i can kind of turn here so for me i have three big thoughts from this game number one matt turner is the guy and he still is the guy and look there's a lot of content out there we do a lot of content it was a fair conversation i suppose of like is can your starting goalkeeper be a backup for another team or a third string when it was looking like that with not even forced and like hey he hasn't the best year i don't care there's such a gulf i think between matt turner and the challengers coming up matt turner is the guy and i don't think that we need to have this conversation for a while two the build-out formation is three four two one ish and i say

ish because there's a lot of fluidity and i like that as well but I do like the way that this build out is happening it probably has to change with Serginio Dest because I don't want him to be a right-sided center back in the back through the same way Joe Scali was but if we ever have a healthy best 11 which is extremely elusive as we all know for the best six years the idea of whoever the hottest center forward is with Reyna and Pulisic underneath. And then maybe Weah as the wingback or Stess as the wingback or whatever, right? Like those combinations, like those players, I think it makes a lot of sense in this group. And I'm very excited to see if that's kind of how Poch and the staff want to go forward. And three, with that, it comes like the combinations down the flanks. I know that this has kind of made the rounds a little bit on social media.

John Mueller and Matt Doyle have pointed it out as well. But I really like the vertical combinations down the flanks. Yes, it led to Jamaica's penalty, right? It was Joe Scali trying to combine with Younes Moussa and go vertical instead of kind of recycle possession and go backwards or sideways. And that's okay. You need to live with that because i got sick of the oh cool like

we're gonna defend by having the ball going backwards and sideways the whole game so look again i think that that plays out differently if it's somebody like serginio death rather than joe scali because i believe it was his turnover and then again just the comedy of error is that it didn't need to get to a penalty yeah it could have been stopped by like ream got turned and then i think worse was mckenzie coming over and just like a really soft job ream got turned twice there's no way what mckenzie did was worse oh regardless the splitting hairs that fire could have been put out it's not just that joe scotty lost the ball and then immediately it was a penalty like the defenders needed to have done better there too so I will take that risk in exchange for not playing these boring sideways

backwards passes all the time. All right. Did you get that out of your system? Do you feel better now? Yeah, that felt good. I didn't know that I felt as strongly about it as I did until I started talking. It was, I think, I mean, it's CONCACAF away, right? It's not gorgeous.

It's not beautiful. It's not all the things you want to see. How about the field? My God, that looked great. So, like, in that, it's tough to's not beautiful it's not all the things you want to see how about the field my god that looked so like in that it's tough to i think take away all the things like oh this is what patch wants this is what they want to do but it felt like they tried to play into feet early on and that led to the goal and i thought peppy looked comfortable in the setting which was surprising he like was able to kill the ball at his feet consistently to pass out of that and holistic as well and like you saw saw Jedi early pass like not make it and it was like oh well I can't play across the our shape because like it may not end up there um but I think I agree with all of

what you said Turner clearly has that gap right now and is going to be the one that gets that opportunity and the the big thing that I really enjoy about the way it was set up yesterday, you see it in the goal, so it's obvious. But when I think of Pochettino, I think back to the Tottenham teams. And I always think of Son being that central attacking piece that plays north to south. He's not Kevin De Bruyne where he's going to play east-west and then pick you apart in 1,000 passes.

And I think 15 years ago we would have said son was a winger and then he got pushed inside and this is happening to a lot of players there is less of the traditional winger true 10 and mls is a unique league and that there is a ton of tens but even then luca origiano has played inside half this year and has been super effective pulisic can succeed in that space and i think part of him being outside so often than trying to come inside was he was isolated out of the game. He is not going to dictate play through his passing. But if you bring him more central, he can affect the game more often. And there's more optionality to what he does.

And I think you saw exactly what you saw. And I don't want to get caught comparing everyone. But Sun and Kane to Pulisic and Pepe in this of like two players stacked on top of each other, both playing between center mids and center backs, both finding gaps, both finding space. There is not a ton of space there, but when you find it, it's a chance

because that's why you're playing centrally and that's why you're taking those risks. And I thought this setup made sense for all of that. And Jedi is a big part of that because he's going to cover so much space outside. You don't need the width. There are pieces going forward that I think could find different ways. You talked about his way of the wingback.

Like, what do you do? I still don't understand why the conversation around Serginio Dest is he's so good on the ball and he's so dangerous. But he's a bad defender. It's like, well, maybe he's not a defender. At what point do we reach it where it's like, okay, so he's goal dangerous every time he's so dangerous but he's a bad defender it's like maybe he's not a defender like at what point do we reach it where it's like okay so he's goal dangerous every time he's in the box he's an excellent ball striker he's able to beat guys 1v1 like at what point do we just say put him higher up the field and play him there it wouldn't be the first player who plays in a different position

from club to country right david oliva's a center mid when he played for Austria and guys like that even the German national team does that so um if he does make it back in healthy I think there's space for him in that part of the team but I thought overall even though you say like oh I don't want to talk about development anymore or process one of the process is like putting your head down and winning and there's not going to be a lot of chances to do that because they screwed up copa america and like while gold cup matters it matters less this was a chance to also under pochettino have a group be like okay well what do we need to do to just get over the line doesn't matter what it looks like doesn't matter what it is and like you can say that that matters in a friendly but it'll feel different so it was good to see that they were capable of like stepping up to that

pressure they didn't back down on all the fight situations got a little fortunate on the timber non-penalty kick call and whatever but matt turner stepped up on the first penalty and made the save and so i think there was a lot of good moments for a group that's still finding themselves i thought tanner tessman was very good um in this one and that's a huge gap in central midfield that you're looking to fill. But center backs seem to be a bit of a problem. Let me say this. I'm going to say this in the most annoying way possible.

I am still not out on the concept in the U.S. And I think this will be a case for our entire lives where players still will come out of quote unquote nowhere. That's just a reality of the size of the country and the way it's set up. And center back is one of those positions where we've seen that the most, partially because a lot of attacking players

convert later in their life, and partially because like goalkeeper, it's a position that you genuinely improve in. Athleticism is less of a key once you're already in that proper space of like you can do it at a pro level. And we see players develop there later. ream is one of them so like i don't have names for you to say the position will be better in two years but i do have belief that there are players that will come

along that can affect that position there is no reason to think that moist bombito can't happen in the u.s if it happens in canada he now starts in Ligon and is one of the best center backs in the region. And I know from the academy level that outside of Kevin Sullivan, a lot of the best names are center backs. 2026 is too early for them to probably affect the team, although it happened pretty quick for Joe Scali at the right back position. But I think the future of the position is fine the current is a little bit stressful and I can understand that but I have some belief that it's going to get better um as they go along let's go into the mailbag here because this was just a fun one uh do you have any other big thoughts before I move us no not really uh again like I would be

worried that I don't see anything really changing major in terms of center back between now and the world cup so that is the big worry so like i don't know yeah like unless mataiak and boney hits a grand slam and is the best player in the league next year there's probably not a huge name that's popping in and coming apart but at the same time we didn't know aaron long was a center back and so like that's kind of one of the ones you're waiting for i don't think jackson reagan's it but like there could be other players like that sure um we got this question from yeah becknell 42 who says got the chance to meet my favorite usmnt player landon donovan this weekend at the racing louisville game i think this was last week interested because

they lost this weekend um so their season's over shout I think this was last week. Interested because they lost this weekend. So their season's over. Shout out to Rhode Island for their first year. Interested to see who are your top favorite USMNT players of all time. This was an exciting question. This is fun. You get nostalgic. You get back into it.

I will say personally, I'm wearing a USMNT t-shirt right now if you're not watching. It's a little harder for me to say super modern players because i've like covered them since they're children or i work in the space so a lot of minor throwbacks i know yeah what a what a name job a lot of minor throwbacks but mine i the first few were super easy for me so for me eddie pope was the first player as a soccer fan that i felt i knew could play anywhere and like i could stand him and euro snobs in my life or mexico fans would be like well but he played and it's like no you watch this guy play for seven seconds you know he could play anywhere he wants and i felt the same way about demarcus beasley when i was young where i was like he could play that psv team was obviously fantastic but he could play in any team and he was good enough.

And so Run DMV was like a huge one for me when I was growing up. Clint Dempsey, which is a cliche one. Clint is the first player that I ever watched from college to MLS and was like, this guy's amazing. And then like watched his career progress and felt like, oh, I saw that. I saw that coming. I experienced it. I was at like his third pro game in MLS. It was the Metro Stars turning into the Red Bulls game.

It was like their first game as Red Bulls. And he played for the Revs. And I got a ticket on the side or in the corner so that I could see him on that wing and like was stoked about it and all that type of stuff. So he was one that I always went back to Michael Bradley because I went and saw that U20 team play in the U20 World Cup in 2007 and was like it was the coolest experience of my life because it was the only time I had seen the U.S. play at that point and then won here uh 2010 World Cup me and my friend bought jerseys with names on the back and he picked oguchi and yewu

which i kind of wish that i had picked and i picked marisa do so shout out to mo who i now know and my wife likes to wear that jersey when the u.s plays and i'm like i can't wear it anymore i know mo too well it's weird to put his name on my jersey like i feel like a weirdo uh i think the other jerseys i had as a kid was Landon Donovan number 21 before he was 10. And Cloudy Arena, 2006 World Cup jersey. That one aged well. Oh, man. Look, I love that list.

And so you started it with like, yeah, they're going to be older school. Like when the question is your favorite players, it'd be weird if you were like, I don't know, Ricardo Pepe or Baligan, right? Like somebody from like right now. But I'm there for Pepe. L-Trend, baby. I'm putting the lower third back up. Given what we do for work. And again, like when you say favorite, you think of nostalgia.

You think of when you were a grown-up, right? So that informs a lot of mine here. So again, you called a cliche with Donovan and Dempsey, but like I'm not going to be hipster here. Those dudes were responsible for like of the US National Team fandom. Like, man, the Algeria goal for Donovan. And everything that Dempsey was doing in that era, too, was just unmatched.

It was incredible. So those are two for me. Charlie Davies. I fucking love Charlie Davies and his break it through. And again, like, you said it with Mo. Same thing. I love Mo. I love Charlie.

Like, Charlie is one of the nicest human beings I've ever met. I'm probably a bigger Charlie Davies fan now than i was back then so that's the thing for me i loved him growing up like and so that was funny like the first like talking to my family like it's like yeah like charlie's like the nicest person i've ever met like so that's that that stuff is always fun too uh michael bradley that was my guy growing up too just the center mid just everything that he was about. And then even going back in era probably. So I was born in 95.

So I wasn't there for like the 94, 98 World Cups and stuff too. But still got to go for the New Jersey royalty of Tony Miola and Tab Ramos. Again, two people I've gotten to know pretty well. Tab also. Absolute legends of the program. An elite coach. A formative coach for your childhood as well. I did play for his academy.

He, yeah, he was, I think, a little bit older than me, but like was also one when you talk to people who are a little bit older that watch the game where it's like, he was one where they, I think in the way I felt about Eddie Pope of like, he could stand up against anyone, right? That was, Tab was like the non-American style player that could play in everyone's style and do all the things that everyone said Americans couldn't do.

We have similar lists, which I think makes sense. It's funny. I think Alan Gordon gave an interview a few years back where he talked about like under Bruce, there was like such a core national team and it was really hard to break in. So I think for a lot of people that were fans back then, there's like not that many names that you're going to say, because it really was a similar 10 to 15 people every single time. And then a few people breaking in, but to Charlie and everyone, the 09 Confed Cup run, one of the best experiences of my life. I obviously wasn't there, but I was living overseas

at the time. And like with people who were all from those other countries that we were playing against and so like sit down you watch you assume you're gonna lose then you don't it was like amazing and so celebrating those wins was as fun as anything um i've ever had on the women's side by the way i brought if you haven't listened to our nwsl preview show you should listen to it we put it out last night semi-fin-final is coming up. So Saturday at noon, I believe, is Washington-Gotham. And then Sunday at 3 o'clock is Orlando against KC. These games are going to be unbelievable.

If you don't watch NWSL and you're watching this because USMNT and MLS, these are the two games to watch. These are the four best teams facing off with all the stakes, single elimination, everything you want. Washington's already sold out Audi Field, so it's going to be 19,000 plus. teams facing off with all the stakes single elimination everything you want um washington's already sold out audi field so it's going to be 19 000 plus for that one orlando has set um attendance records three straight games pretty much at this point but i brought up lauren holiday and that's one of those players who's like that's my dream soccer player and that's everything i

want to be and so on the women's side and then everyone everyone that's ever played center back for that team has been elite. The one modern player I will say is Naomi Gurman. It's so simple to be like, this is everything I want in a center back. And from the moment she stepped into the pro game, she's pretty much been perfect at it. And so those are some easy ones on that side. But if someone wants to ask that question as its own, I could do it in another mailbag as well. Let's jump into some... Too many to pick from from yeah for sure too many uh let's jump into this one from

um up the loons who said he had a few questions related to atlanta miami he told us to take our pick i think you selected for us which of these questions we're gonna do whatever you want we're gonna do okay well the first question is is atlanta beating miami an argument for or against the wild card spot two should we take anything bigger from miami losing other than it was an impressive upset for example it's the salary cap work you can't be that hot top heavy etc and three we often speculate that part of miami's success that teams are starstruck and it impacts their play negatively. Was part of this upset that playing Miami finally became normal to Atlanta? You had wanted to talk about the second one, so let's start there. Should we take anything bigger from Miami losing other than it was an impressive upset?

No, I mean, nothing new is what I saw. I would say no, but as long as the as the understanding is yeah there is going to be parody and yeah playoffs are small sample size series or games that any things like this can happen again like I lean more that Atlanta were super impressive over those three games and Miami had their flaws but like I don't think like the you can't be too top heavy thing like I don't I don't think that that super applies here too too, because, like, if you can get Messi, Suarez, right, or, you know, in a different light, if it's, you know, Cucho and Rossi or whatever, right?

Like, again, Columbus aren't, you wouldn't call them top-heavy, but just because that there's a little bit of a distance between your top two players and the rest of them, like, that's just a designated player spot. So I would say nothing new as long as the understanding was, like, yeah, weird shit happens at MLS in the playoffs i agree with you i think to the line of questioning i do think part of the whatever you want to call it parody structure whatever shown out which is like it is not about being top heavy because the way the roster spots are filled

with the money it's filled, it's the same for everyone. No matter, you know, it doesn't matter how much you pay Messi. You still have the same amount of money to spend on the rest of the roster. I think it was, it's really hard to build it. And like one of the things I think people got fooled by

with Atlanta going into LAFC was like, oh, you can spend money and build a winner. And you have to go back and look at the structure LAFC had already. And like to have gotten the bails of the world and bring Chicho in and win, the backbone of that team had been built over a four year span. And so like, that's the part I think I got out of this Miami experience is like, it's really tough to build it in 12 to 18 months on the fly and be cohesive enough top to bottom to win the Atlanta one, a little unique. They were an expansion team, but again, they spent a lot of time picking the right pieces and putting it together before they even started. Um, and Toronto, it took them a while right seattle has taken them a while now seattle

has always had this spine and backbone to stay relevant because they keep people once they find them in those spots but miami didn't have that opportunity i think let's say messy was 29 and this was going to happen for four years i think they would land on the right center backs and the right fullbacks and the right pieces that should fit around this and the right veterans that can be a part of that rather than they really only had maybe two shots at this if this all stays together for next year or maybe one and you go back and it's like Thomas Aviles is not ready to be a center back in these high leverage moments for them but they had to pick a name they had to pick someone and they had to try and put it together pretty quickly and because of the roster mechanisms that it had to be a u22 that you have to do this it is hard to just do it and automatically win and i think that was the one learning piece i will take from this the format stuff and we have like 87 questions about it that part is shocking to me i think the idea was three games everyone's involved but like the three games it should come out to here are the

law of averages if you flip the coin enough times you're gonna get the 50 50 or the 51 49 and that's the craziest part about this is like miami jordi alba quote unquote complained about the format he did not he complained about the concept of playoffs and everyone worded as format. Like what he described is not a playoff. So he doesn't believe in playoffs and that's not wrong. He's okay believing that. And that's the background he comes from. I thought that that would be the part though that fixed all this,

which is like, yeah, you'll get one upset. Minnesota ended up not really being an upset because they made their run later in the year. And that, like, the Minnesota-Rialto Lake one, that was, again, I think the Minnesota were the better team. That was two penalty shootouts. The thing that's so insane to me about Miami-Atlanta, they didn't go to penalties once. So that was my worry, not the worry, but like, will this incentivize teams playing anti-football and sitting in and trying to play for penalties? And that was not the case for Atlanta.

It was not. Yeah. So those parts are really interesting to me. We had a question in the mailbag that I didn't put on for this one about format from Blue KQ, who's a Portland fan and awesome piece of our Discord. And again, if you don't subscribe, you should. He talked about in the format, just shifting when you host the game. So Lucci came on the show last week and sort of said, a lot of the higher seeds got screwed because they played home on weekdays,

Monday and Tuesday, and then went and played on the road. So for example, Columbus and RSL, they had less desirable home games. And he was saying worse atmospheres, and then went into these fire breathing atmospheres the week later where that club had two weeks to sell out a weekend game that everyone's already used to and all of that type of stuff. seed and then game two and potentially three would be at the higher seed i like the idea of basically the higher seed never playing an elimination game on the road the wnba has done the reverse they play one and two and if you lose you go to game three on the road which i don't think is fair and makes a ton of sense but that kind of goes closer to the like my double elimination idea which is basically the home team gets a chance to close it out in two at home and if not close it it out in three at home, but I don't think you're going to fix all this because it's soccer. And like, that's the point is sometimes people are going to lose and that's

kind of what you're hoping for. But Salah V, before we jump into another question, yeah, let's talk Cincinnati here because you haven't been on since you, broke the news um about the them being on the verge of signing a record signing at the center forward position then lucho made his comments post game he has now i wouldn't say elaborated on those comments but more has continued to happen here so just give us a sense check of like what is going on and and because the cincinnati fans in our discord are some of the most active right now because i think it is a very stressful time yeah fc cincinnati it is not boring in any way so i'll start with the positive side of things kevin danky so the club are nearing a deal to sign kevin

danky togo international from circle bruges for upwards of 15 million dollars it's it's at least a top three transfer in league history if slash when this gets done and i am expecting this to get done at some point soon maybe not an announcement anytime soon but it thinks to be completely done this is a player who in our lifetimes goes to the premier league goes to the bundesliga goes to spain if this is the golden boot winner in belgium this is again he's at 23 years old He's still about to hit his prime. This is like you take the Cucho Hernandez model with what Columbus did and you kind of put a little bit more money into it, right?

You take a guy who's playing every single game. I know that the Premier League is obviously better than the Belgian League, but Cucho, I think he had like 1,200 minutes, I think, for Watford when they got relegated. He was still really good. But it's like, oh, what if we go try to get the best player in Belgium rather than him going to the Premier League? He's been linked with like Tottenham, Aston Villa, stuff like that.

He was at the game with Cincinnati lost game three of the playoffs to NYCFC. And I will tell you that this is such a potential big signing. This is like, man, I don't want to go as far as a league altering signing, but like this would be huge. Like because he's a Togo international rather than say Spain or Germany. This is like, man, I don't want to go as far as saying league altering signing, but this would be huge. Because he's a Togo international rather than, say, Spain or Germany. You're like a natural, like a power in world soccer that we're used to seeing. And we probably don't know his name. We're not watching Circle Bruise.

This dude is... Circle up, guys. That's what we say. This dude is awesome. I heard it. The people in cincy obviously well believe it i got two texts from people at different mls clubs being like holy shit this guy's good yeah like if since you get this done what a signing i heard from somebody connected to circle bruce being like this is an insane signing for any team in major league soccer and

like well done to cincy kind of thing so that's the the kind of like stratosphere this signing is being talked about so this would be huge this would be excellent and again unless something falls apart at the very last days like i'm firmly expecting this to happen and again like cincy have felt this way about german bertrami yeah and some others before they came close to west mckinney they worked hard for sergeant right like so at particularly for where they have after they got burned in the summer they're not celebrating until all the documents are signed and filed. So, that's Kevin Denke. That is hugely exciting to start the offseason.

Then Lucho Costa drops a bombshell. Seemingly, out of nowhere, saying, hey, this might have been my last game, like, after the game that he lost. I had heard, I don't know when it was, some point maybe this month or last month, it was like, someone was like, dude, Lucho wants out. I was like, stop wasting my time with something so stupid, right? Like, I'm not going to ask anybody about this.

And then he comes out and says it. And, like, what I was told by one source was like, man, it's just Lucho, man. Like, people have joked about that. Like, yeah, like, he's a superstar player. And, like, sometimes it comes with stuff like this. Like, not quite like this, but you know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, he came out and said it and i was curious hey was he just feeling emotional after loss did he you know missed like the evander one was so very clearly premeditated

this one i wasn't entirely sure right so he was due to speak for fc cincinnati media day and exit interviews on wednesday And I was wondering, is he going to double down? Is he going to walk anything back? Or is he going to say, you know, I said what I said, I'm going to, you know, whatever. Then he couldn't be part of Media Day.

He had a family obligation, a tight schedule. He made all of his meetings, everything else. He was going to like, supposed to walk into the media room. He's like, I got to go right now. I can't.

So I thought that we weren't going to hear from him. And then you log on to Twitter and Blue Sky and you see he's giving an interview with espn argentina it is unclear if that interview was live or pre-taped i'm not sure um but particularly if it was live that would be another kind of kicking the balls right i can't do media today i have a tight schedule but i can make 20 minutes for you um and he doubled down his quote quote translated on social media by... He told it to ESPN Argentina. Sorry, I was pulling it up.

This was a very recent decision I made to leave. I feel I've completed a cycle after four years of playing at Cincinnati. It's time to find a different scene and to see how things can be resolved. And then part of why this was with ESPN Argentina was, if a return to Argentina arises, I'd love to take it, you know, particularly Boca juniors. That's what he was talking about.

And he played the card of like, my son's a Boca fan. My son is asking me, when are we going to go play for Boca? All this stuff. Right. Um, so yeah,

he absolutely double tripled down on this Cincinnati stance are, well, he's one of the best players in the league. He's on a contract through 26 with a club option for 27. He ain't leaving for free and we don't want him to leave in general so it's not like that they're resigned to okay this is definitely gonna happen but in these situations this is the playbook for a player who wants to get out and wants to force a club's hand doing these kinds of interviews he you have

to make it messy if you want to get it out so let let's see how far Lucho will ratchet it up. Let's see if Cincinnati can convince him. No, you're good right now. But again, the last point here is like the talk about cycles, like that was what I had heard when somebody said, I think he wants to leave. It was like it's not he's unhappy. It's that just a cycle happened.

Oh, and one last point. I don't know where this rumor started. I'm sorry. I'm just throwing it out there. It's just a cycle happened. Oh, and one last point. I don't know where this rumor started. I'm sorry. I'm just throwing it out there. Just a cycle happened. One more point. I don't know where this rumor started that FC Cincinnati were actively shopping him in the summer behind his back for a transfer. I can't believe I had to go out and say this isn't true.

But obviously this is not true. Obviously they did not take their MVP and say, you know what this season needs after Matt Miazga gets injured? After we can't get these deals done for DPs? Let's try to sell Lucho Cosa. Obviously that didn't happen. And I don't know where that rumor started, but I have to squash it. That's why he's Tommy Scoops, man. That's why he's got to step up and be the one who stands for the truth in all of this.

There's a lot to take in there. Because there's a lot going on. And so I think the crazy part about all of this was that they signed a new contract last September. Like it happened pretty recently. This is not he signed a five-year deal and he's stuck in this deal and now you're three years in and the reality has changed and it's not the team he thought he'd be playing on. And, you know, his kid's ready to go to school and he wants them to do it there. That part's wild. The second part that's wild is he's talked about the usmnt this whole time and the understanding is

he's going to get his passport like in march which means if he gets sold sorry there's just what the timeline is whether it's march or the like the next winter it's one of those regardless is he'd have to be in cincinnati he hasn't gotten it yet he would have to stay here so that part is also in he's 30 if this is the thing he thinks he's going to do and i don't know that he gets into the usmnt i'm not i'm not trying to be ridiculous i get he's an mvp finalist like maybe you you know potch says well we need a win now piece going into the world cup fine but that's his one shot to do it and so if he wants to do that which it seems like he does because he has spoken about it that would have to happen as well so like all of this is a little bit wild and a little bit

different it's his dream to play for boca he played for boca like i don't understand it's not like he played for estudiantes but wished he played for boca and now he's finally going to go back as the big man now like yeah he wasn't a star but he played for boca's academy and he played for their first team and then he got sold to major league soccer so a lot of this seems like he's kind of saying whatever he can to make something happen we have seen in the past this happen and the player stays and it's okay and like everyone forgets about it later on we also have seen especially the argentine media part which has become like a fun trend in MLS. Every once in a while, you have a player who all of a sudden is like

a weekly guest on Argentine radio making comments about wanting to move. We've all got to get up there, you know, get the feeds up and go down there and whatever. And then they try to do that to, as you said, make things messy, destabilize and get out. And it would be unfortunate. I think it would just be unfortunate for him. It's such a clean fit and everything has worked so well.

And, you know, back-to-back MVP finalist seasons and MVP, a supporter shield pushing once again. And I understand the like way they lost this year is upsetting, but they're not far away. And they've already shown the commitment in Denki to like, continue to push things along and try and make it better. so it's an odd move and it's an odd moment and I think you can see from the fans like it's tough to be like whoa what what are we supposed to expect what's happening on the Denke side you said um something I think is interesting that people should like recognize

which is the fact that he's not from one of these countries like spain or belgium where it's like my national team career is done you know i've gone as far as i can in europe and now i'll come to mls which is what we saw with pasuelo and hugo kaipers who's 26 and came and like that was probably his move because he wasn't going to make one whereas you said denke has the potential to have made a different move than this and kucho was kind of like ah it's not working here. I need to go find something else. The whole point being,

I think damaged goods is the wrong term to use around a person. But that's the idea. It's like there is upward momentum to a European career. And when you hit a stall, that's when people start to make decisions where they end up saying,

yeah, I'll come to him. He's not in that position. He could continue that what is considered traditional upward mobility, where he's now making this decision, which I think is super interesting and goes to show how well Cincinnati sells their project,

which is why again, Lucha, what is going on now? Everything I've seen from Cincinnati and the few people I talked to nowhere near as much, it feels like it's probably a family thing. And there's nothing Cincinnati can control at some point. And like, if someone's family wants to move or doesn't want to be there or is somewhere else and they have to move, like, that's something you can't control.

And all you can do is try and do as much as you can around it. But Lucho did in his comments in the postgame say, like, the club made me promises, I believe, that he felt weren't the same. Or maybe I'm thinking of Evander now. Now I'm all over the map um uh yeah so again i think you said it well there too that like if it is like family or person then like like you said there's nothing that a couple you can you can do as much you can try to help you you know whatever it is right and again i'm whatever i'm even saying right now because like again i don't know this for sure so i don't even want to speculate so i'm gonna move it to a point where i feel more comfortable talking um one of the with danky

mls clubs have figured out oh we could just try to go get the best player in belgium yeah there's danky joseph paintsill in the winter hugo kuypers as well that was it this winter um what the red bulls tried with dante Van Zier look revisionist history looks really bad they spent five million dollars on a dude who had pretty much a goal rate of one every 90 minutes or 100 minutes whatever it was like those these are these four ambitious signings and again like there is no guarantee that any one single signing works but I think that there's going to be a really high success rate if you just keep going to Belgium and trying to get some of the best players. And like you say to Danky, I don't know exactly what he's on.

Might be like $700,000 a year. Like, hey, dude, you can come here. Be the man. You're going to score a bunch of goals. You're going to be a star. And guess what? We're going to triple your salary or whatever it is, right? So I think that that market is really, really ripe for MLS to continue to go to.

And the copycat league nonsense is cliche. I almost threw up even just saying that out loud. But like anecdotally, when Hamas and Olave came to Real Salt Lake 15 years ago and was awesome and won Defender of the Year, guess what? Ten MLS teams went to Columbia and tried to find a center back, right? Joseph Panto works out really well. Hugo Kuypers, I thought he had a solid season. I think he's going to be even better next season with better structure around him.

Since he is building on that, and then maybe the next team with big money, or hell, Chicago right now. Why won't Chicago? Circle Bruce. Who's Circle Bruce's second best player? Go to one of these teams. Hey, we need a 10. We need a winger.

This is such a good market, think to kind of attack and you get some of the best players in the league rather than a rotational guy for one of the better boone's league teams or whatever you want to say so there are a lot of different ways to build teams i really really like this new development for mls clubs going to belgium and saying hey here's 10 10 million bucks $15 million, $8 million. Give us your best player, and it all works out for everybody. And there's a few elements to think about in this. One is the Belgian-style league fits more to MLS. One of the things that we've seen is MLS has gone in and out of time periods where they try and shop in the Dutch league,

and the Dutch league plays man-to-man in a totally different way. It's CSL meta it well yeah yeah and so players struggle to adjust coming to major league soccer as everyone sees they also struggle to adjust moving around europe like it is a league that plays kind of its own style and so that's been a tough one where you're saying okay underneath the big five or six whatever you are who are the top players in the top leagues? Belgium's a cleaner fit. As you said, you can blow the salary out the window for a lot of these players, but still not be Bundesliga or EPL because they're probably not going to be stars in those leagues. And so like when you talk about the number that MLS is spending to sign those players, those are players who are going to be on the verge of being starters and good players and all of that and you bring them here as dps you can pay them outside of probably what they would make there and so there's options there and then on the other names of some of those and i i

go back to pasuelo who to me is like sort of the first one with this yeah great is like this was the end of his journey in europe because he was spanish and had already played there and it wasn't working and he went to Belgium and like, yeah, he could have tried to push himself into a league on the side and maybe they make Europe and he plays well. And he finds his way back into a top half La Liga team. That's like a three,

four year process, but he's not looking for that stretch. And the top European teams are not coming and looking at you at that level. And like Denki a little bit different, but Kuypers, he, European sides in England or whatever, they're not going to look for a 26 and 27 year old in Belgium. So you kind of have the option to move.

The other thing I would add with the Olave conversation, all those that we have is it's two-sided. MLS teams are copycat and then players are and agents are. And like, there are a lot of players who are like, man, I never really thought of that. And then someone they know or someone they feel similar to goes and plays and is happy and talks about it and gets in the national team or whatever and then all the other players are like cool sign me up like how do i get there and so that makes the recruiting for mls teams much easier to be like look at what this person enjoyed. And now you get the opportunity to do it as well. But money's got to be there.

And like Cincinnati again has shown commitment to spend at a level that is almost unheard of in Major League Soccer. And like this is not the first time. This is since their existence. Well, let's take away the first six months. Since then, their like commitment to even when it's gone poorly. Yes. Brenner,ürgen locadia like they have spent or brought in players of high levels and um and i one of the things i go back to with a lot of mls teams i said it with ache ache it's like just because a team spent doesn't mean they'll spend again and sometimes when you see those players stay it's

because the front office doesn't have a guarantee from ownership that if they move that player or let them go, they're going to get a player of equal value and quality. Cincinnati has that. And so they are able to operate in a way in which, all right, it's time to move Brenner. He wants to go. He kicked the garbage can. Yeah, we'll move him because we're going to get to bring in a Denke next or a Bupenza. And even when it doesn't go right, at least they're having that ambition. It's a fascinating club.

It's a fascinating story, and I'm curious to see how it goes along. Let's continue in some MLS talk. Johnny Russell and Tim Milia out at Sporting Kansas City. Another year where they struggled. Another year where they struggled to be healthy and be consistent. And two of the kind of last staples of the long history of Peter Vermees' successful teams now out the door.

Now, it's hard to remember. I think Johnny Russell kind of came after a lot of that. Hasn't really had the success on the field from team results, but from production he has. What did you make of when you heard this and sort of what this means for this club? Yeah, I mean mean like you said like macro stance it is um i guess it would be expected right like why after again the better part of the last three years honestly of of the general vibe of this team and direction of this team but it still felt like a shock because like i still think that these two are good players particularly

amelia because i thought that he had an excellent season and was at a different contract number than say Johnny Russell was but I get it for Kansas City um you throw in Andreo Fontas who was also leaving the club Fontas Emilia and Johnny Russell were the three oldest players on this team it makes sense because they need to desperately need to get younger and obviously need to inject quality all over this team so i think it makes sense for all parties my immediate push it forward thought is like i don't know what johnny russell's gonna do i don't know if he's gonna go back to europe or not i had a couple people replying to my tweets like oh my god celtic should go get him and like if celtic wants him then like i i wouldn't blame him at all for going somewhere else if i'm a gm of an mls team yeah and i could

find a reasonable contract and make sure that he knows hey you're gonna be an important piece to this team you probably won't always start and we don't probably not even good for you to always start um we want you to play 2 000 minutes splitting it between starting and coming off the bench but you're gonna play in every big game whether that's from the start or off the bench there's like 15 mls teams that should be calling him and trying to sort that out. Again, I don't know if the money will work. I don't know if he's like, I care more right now about playing all the time. I don't care if I have to go to Wrexham or, you know, Aberdeen or whatever.

You just need the biggest team in the world, so you think he can play there? Right. And that's cool, too, if that's what he wants. But I'm making that phone call right now and laying that out and being like are you interested yeah and i think he would be a game changer for a lot of these teams that could add a little bit of quality but also not relying on him because i think that's the difference with kansas city it'd be tough to say hey johnny i know that you've been the king here i know that you're used to playing all the time hey can you kind of take a back seat

to steven of rifa yeah like and again that's probably that that is the better decision long term for this club but it's difficult with those internal dynamics of like now what do you mean i'm the guy here right like so if if there's another mls team you get 15 of them should be like anybody who's like realistically challenging next year should be calling john russell i think if they have the space i agree with you and i'm big on these types of moves all the time i think every time we do a like free agent who would you want to move trade it's always these guys are twilight with one team maybe they won't accept a new role with that team but they'll accept it with another team because all the things you're

saying are all things you'd hope kansas city had a conversation with him about well you take less money and less time if you don't want to move and you get to live here and you get to continue to be a part of this? Which is why I was a little surprised it ended. Because at 35, does Johnny Russell really want to play a ton of minutes? Like, is that the biggest need in his life? And does he really want to move? It seemed like he was pretty settled there. And staying in MLS might allow that, which is like his family can stay there.

He doesn't have to leave the country. And then they can stay in Kansas City or be in the area or all that type of stuff around it um but i agree with you and and we have a question coming up i think about rsl with andres gomez because i said um what no sorry there you go no i said i thought that rsl kind of had no choice to sell andres gomez yeah i could do it here uh webhead said you mentioned on the show rsl had to make the move to sell andres Gomez. Yeah, I could do it here. Webhead said, you mentioned on the show, RSL had to make the move to sell Andres Gomez. I agree, but I'm wondering if the benefit, if with the benefit of hindsight,

you think there's anything RSL could have done differently in that situation to avoid the second half collapse they ended up with. Obviously, Chito is a huge part of it. So you can't chalk the whole thing up to losing Gomez, but it's at least a big part of problem. Is this just the reality for a club in RSL's position? Or is this a way for them in similar clubs to constantly buy and sell young players without facing huge drop-offs? This is how you do it. If you are a team that thinks you are going to rely on a piece, and you

brought up Chicago, which I think is a good one, because Brian Gutierrez is probably one of the people in this conversation, you have to understand that I got to go probably spend a little bit more money on Johnny Russell now, in case we sell Brian Gutierrez in the summer so that he can step in and be that guy and play that role. That's how you buttress against it because I think Marchuk's going to be a really good player. He is not that player today, the same as Andres Gomez wasn't that player two years ago when you brought him in. The only way you can try and cover for that is either in your back pocket have some type of game model change that you can do do you have a second forward who can play instead of a winger and so when that player gets sold yeah we're going to move to that style we're going to whip in crosses and have two big bodies and whatever or do you have someone who

can be sort of this cover we haven't seen it work fantastic in mls all the time we talked about this around nacho piatti and javi mo and all that stuff for years and whatever but you saw ilia go to la and sort of carry the mantle in a way in which that was that to us the replacement it was just too late and they didn't really time it out correctly johnny russell is one of those players now where if you're one of those teams if let's say and this is a bad example philly thinks quinn sullivan's gonna get sold and they think that he can fill that spot it's a not a like for like someone like that then you go and make a move like this the revs did this fairly well in the dylan berrero or uh tajan buchanan any time period of like they

brought in players when they sold players, but they took the risk of, it took Veroni a little bit and you took a step back because he wasn't Bucsa. So I do think there's a model out there where you can find that in-between space. You have to hit on some really good deals and you have to like get fortunate

or have the outside stuff. Like, can you offer Johnny Russell the best training facility and the best medical staff and the best life experience outside the field to say it's worth it for you to come here for something different? And I think you're right that every MLS team at least should be on the phone being like, does this interest you? Do we interest you?

If so, let's start to talk because there's no way he can't help a team as long as it's at the right roster number and all of that wow we hit two questions in one there um how how productive are we let's stick in mls because the other team that made roster moves since our last time talking about this i think it was when houston announced that achiachi would be moving on um was fc dallas and so dallas um choosing to let ira a number of players go. They are still negotiating with Delgado, Iramendi, and Juan. And we have a question here from Jinji789,

who says, now that we've started with the coaching carousel, I'm curious, one, who do you think will be FC Dallas's new coach? Two, how much does USL championship experience matter for a coach? Does MLS have a history of hiring coaches out of the USL, and how do they do um and then he had something else about i don't know columbus and whatever else going on in there which was random thoughts on fc dallas in general yeah so this is pretty clearly need a lot of changes this winter um i'm assuming that more players are going to depart that have

that didn't have contract options up i think that they'll be active on the trade market in terms of offloading guys um curious to see who that will be and won't be whatever right they need to get delgado back i i would really want yarmendi and juan back but the priority here has to be patrickson delgado i thought he was really good and he's's got, I think, a very, very bright future. So, El Cerro at Dallas, on the coaching search, deductive reasoning. If they were going to give the job to Peter Luxon, they would have done it already is what I think. Again, I don't know that for sure, but the longer this goes, the less likely that it's going to be Luxon.

And I think that we've already kind of hit the breaking point of, oh, it probably won't be. But, again, all speculation, don't know. Number two, how much does usl championship experience matter for a coach none none at all none at all like and i i don't agree with that i think that that's silly to disregard but very clearly the decision makers around mls do not value usl championship experience um troy lazane was coach of the year in usl he had to leave to be uh assistant with the red bulls yeah

geo savarese i think we were talking about this before the show got so we don't we're not entirely comprehensive on this but i believe geo savarese is the last um like lower tier division manager to directly go from the lower tier to a head coaching i think breaking out reserve team coaches whatever term mlsLS PR is going to tell us to say. Great point. Breaking out of two team coaches like Alorne Courtois or Steve Tarondolo and pieces like that. Good stuff. Yeah, great caveat.

So for somebody like outside of the organization, I'm fairly certain Gio is the last one. But again, maybe we're missing San Jose or Colorado or somebody who was there for four months didn't work out right but um in terms of something that was successful as geo and i believe portland would have done the last college to uh mls first team as well before that mark dos santos is in there as well dos santos he went from college to no no sorry lower division because he was san francisco but i think he may have been lafc's assistant before he was hired as vancouver yes i believe so yeah it's all fuzzy things we could have worked out before the show but anyway um so does like how much do a sub championship matter like it doesn't like danny cruz is a guy eric quill is a guy but like eric quill as i was like he was with d. Yeah. That could be an interesting name.

There's, again, Danny Cruz, like, he played in MLS and stuff, but he had been at Louisville for a while. He was with Hackworth, and, like, if Hackworth gets the job in St. Louis, I believe Danny Cruz is going to go with him. Again, these are not 100% certain on him, but, like, I just named two of the, like, higher-rated USL championship coaches, and one of them is a maybe, and even if he does, I think Dallas would care more about Eric Quill's time with North Texas when he was within the organization.

And talking about Danny Cruz, of everything Louisville have done, hey, you can come be an assistant for Hackworth if you want to go to MLS. So I've talked to people who are either the coaches themselves or people in the camps of those coaches of, like, what would be better if I want to end up with an mls job and it's pretty clearly go be an mls assistant rather than usl championship head coach which again i want to make it clear i do not agree with i don't think that things should be binary ever in terms of like he could be the same guy but like oh he's a red bull assistant versus the new mexico head coach that makes it better like i

don't i don't think that i don't think that that's a huge difference yeah it's um it's i think it's extremely confusing and shocking i one of the things i always say is like lack of bravery or creativity of like hiring someone from outside the model is scary because one of the things that everyone in these jobs has to do is explain if things go right or wrong to their boss what happened and so if you pick someone that ever other people have trusted it's not your fault like okay it didn't work out but everyone else thought it would work and everyone else has tried it and so i tried it too first trying something different um and taking a risk and there's a number i mean rsl hired like four former uh second

division coaches to come on to their staff over the last 12 months. And so they've like that's an incredible opportunity for RSL. If you recognize that this is a market inefficiency, you can go to these top level coaches and say, come work under Pablo. We'll have all of this brainpower in our group. And that's your opportunity to then go and get um interviews going forward so anthony poulos has come in there i think nate nate miller coming from san diego has come in there yeah um before that they brought uh mark larry who at el paso was considered like the top lower division coach in the u.s for before he went to india and struggled there uh for a year or so so yeah i

think it's kind of some of these names i I think, are kind of ridiculous of like these people have been head coaches. Why would you not someone want someone who's had that qualification, but also isn't a retread of like they're already dealing with a lot of stuff that they're coming off of? Because that's one of the things that's hard for coaches. It's hard for them to give up the problems that were done in the past and all the things that happened. And so it's shocking to me that it doesn't matter more my hope is some of these names break through we keep talking about them danny cruz ben pierman pomoda khan is now going back into as you reported phoenix which is one that we bring up for a lot of these jobs um that could have potential dennis sanchez has done well at las vegas that's one that we're seeing connected to sacramento now along with ian russell who's another one who's been in between but most of the names

are people who have then gone and become assistants um and then gotten their chance in major league soccer and it's tough because i said the reach out thing but like ben olsen went to a western conference finals and chris armis went to leagues cup semi-final and that's what we said about those signings uh when they were made so the problem is there's no like obvious yes or no in a lot of this stuff um with your hiring we didn't do this around the lucho acosta thing but we have a lot of questions that have been asked about internal mls transfer markets basically the question people keep asking is well if lucho wants to leave, why can't another MLS team sign him?

And the answer you get is, well, no one will have enough allocation money to cover the money that most likely a team outside of MLS will spend on him, which will be X millions of dollars. So the question here is less, could it happen and more, what's the future for this?

And as I said, we're going to dig into a lot of this stuff as the offseason goes along. So if this interests you, send it to us, let us know, and we can sort of try and build something around it. But do you have any initial thoughts? Yeah, that I was surprised this didn't happen a couple years ago. There was a lot of momentum for this to potentially happen. I forget exactly which year it was.

Maybe it was 22, 23. But it hasn't yet i think it's there's some semblance of an inevitability that it will happen i just don't know when so i think that would make a lot more sense i know that sporting directors want this because one it's easier to understand and two like you think of wilford nancy going from montreal to columbus like would would cincinnati have bought george mojavec would they have paid six million dollars to Columbus like would would Cincinnati have bought George Mihaljevic would they have paid six million dollars to sign like real money to sign George Mihaljevic from Montreal

and like again I know he wanted to go to Europe but these are things that are simply non-starters there are no possibilities in the current structure so the worry is will this turn into you know Chelsea buys from Brighton andpool buy from southampton and that's just how it goes so that that's one worry um i think with the salary cap that's less of a worry you still have a structure in which you're limiting the amount of big money players you can sign i i still i still feel like this is more inevitability than not but again i guess i'm kind of surprised that it hasn't

happened yet or at least maybe this reminds me i need to ask this specific question because nobody has brought it up to me like they did maybe two three years ago like hey i think this this might happen this is gonna happen like clearly showing that the conversations were uh active and direct and i just haven't had anybody say anything that me. And again, that doesn't mean that it's not happening. It's just I need to be more direct in seeking out this information. And in this question, so the few points, one good point is, don't you want good players who have already come to MLS and been good or are happy to be here, don't you want them to stay? Don't you want a process in which something's going on with Lucho,

we don't know what. Something's going on with Evander, we don't know what. It may not be I don't want to play in MLS anymore. It's I don't you want a process in which something's going on with lucho we don't know what something's going on with evander we don't know what it may not be i don't want to play in mls anymore it's i don't want to play here don't we want an avenue to keep those players in major league soccer the flip side of this is and everyone complains about discovery rights mls does not want a structure in which their teams are bidding up bidding their own teams and that in my assumption and i have not spoken to anyone about this, this is my guess. That is the sticking point on this is MLS doesn't want a situation in which Cincinnati says, yeah, we'll take that person.

We'll give you 5 million. And then Dallas says seven. And then Cincinnati says nine and then LA says 11. And now your own owners are upbidding. should be the way sports work it should be an open competitive market and owners trying to win and teams trying to win should be giving the players as much money as they have to give those players so that the players come and win games that is not how major league soccer is built and i think that's probably one of the sticking points in all of this and so when we have conversations, there's like multiple parties, sporting directors want all this stuff, right? They want all the restrictions, all the allocation money out the

door. They want to be able to spend how they want and when that's because that's their focus, then you get the answers normally from the business side and from ownership sides, which are a bit more like, huh, interesting. Yeah, it's something we should talk about when we meet to talk about something about what we should talk about at the next meeting to talk about what we should talk about so that might be one of the sticking points in that one and i assume that's one of the ones that has slowed um maybe the conversation around it but there are a lot of good players who want to play in mls that are in the wrong spots or that something happens and they need to move or want to move, that it would be really nice to see them continue in because the reason I created a theorem is it takes time.

It takes time for players to settle. If the players already settled, don't we want that player to stay in the league? Okay, speaking of movement, DeJuan Jones was traded from the New England Revolution to the Columbus crew earlier this season. He was nice enough to come by and sit with us and spend a little time. So thank you to him for his time, and let's go to that interview right now. And now we are fortunate to be joined by our guy DeJuan Jones, Columbus Crew,

wingback, eight caps with the U.S. national team, Michigan State star turned Ohio kid now. DeJuan, thank you for coming on. What's the transition been like going from, again, obviously it's been a long time since exactly being in Michigan all the time, but Michigan to Ohio, how are you feeling? Thanks guys for having me. I'm feeling good. You know, I used to hate on Ohio as a kid, but now that I'm here, it's got a lot to offer and I'm happy to be here. So, so I know that growing up, yeah, I'm sure you started, what, as a winger, as a forward, like most people do.

You just kind of slowly go further back the field until you're in men's league, like Gostinac. So, I'm curious more about your transition from winger to wingback and the idea of you being essentially, or I guess literally, ambidextrous, that you can play on both sides, which is a rare quality. Does that kind of thing come natural, or you just like work on it incessantly yeah so when i was growing up for me everything i did on my right foot i would do on my left foot um so i feel like that kind of ingrained that in me early in like i was proud of myself on that and honestly like i think from watching a lot of messy highlights, I was just like, wow, like, all right, I need to work on that on my left foot too. I used to watch a lot of those highlights as a kid. So, yeah, for me, playing with both feet was always a big thing that I was taught

and something I prided myself in. Obviously, we know for a lot of people coming out of college, you just want to play and get on a roster and get on the field and all of that. Now that you've reached the point where, and we'll talk about it coming up, borderline national team in and out of the camp, all-star, all that stuff, do you watch forwards and be like, come on, I can do that? Like, let's put me back up top? Yeah, definitely.

Definitely. So that's why it's nice to play wingback now with the Columbus crew in those forward positions a lot more. So a lot more opportunities for goal scoring actions. And, you know, I still I'm still a forward at heart. So the finishing earlier today. So the shot, the finishing is still there. So I'm excited to be able to be higher up the field to showcase that ability.

Wilfred loves to throw stuff at the wall. Come on, Wilf. Put DeJuan Jones at center forward. Have the, what is it, bravery? showcase that ability wilfred loves to throw stuff at the wall come on wolf put dewan jones at center forward have the hat what is it bravery there is no such thing as uh as as no can't do that's a thing that you can do um we've got a lot to ask you about a lot to talk about pro career national team all that stuff um but we started you out with a college joke because you are from michigan state lansing area you played for michigan state now you're in buckeye country um we've actually talked about college soccer a bit on this show recently because there's some rumors about it changing and shifting and the season

changing and the way it's played out changing and who you play and all of that you are a product of this system you didn't get to come through a pro academy and yet you are having a full-fledged pro career. You're sort of the model of what it could be. What do you make of what you hear about potential changes and sort of what it meant in your life? Yeah, I think for me it worked out just with the season ending and then having the combine, which was also really huge for me. I'm not sure how it works now. I know it's not the same as it used to be, but the combine was a big help in helping me getting drafted. But I enjoyed my college experience. But as I look at it, it does seem to make more sense to expand it to a full season. I'm seeing these guys, especially the Big Ten now, it's expanded so much. I was talking to my college coach recently. They're flying out to California, and then they come back home,

and they fly out to California for a Friday game friday game then they have a tuesday game back in michigan and then a game in maryland on friday and it's like for these student athletes like that's that's tough and then they also have school so there's not a lot of time and then also when you're traveling it's hard to recover as well so i think if they could make the schedule of season longer it would be beneficial and you know players wouldn't be injured. And, you know, if you're injured for two weeks, you might miss five games. So I think if they could expand the season, that actually would be beneficial. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, that's an absolute sprint and adding that kind of travel onto it sounds insane. What would that like, looking back at it now for you, like would you have like having to go to california and stuff like that much more often would you have been excited about oh it's cool i get to go to usa ucla for games sometimes we're also like jesus christ dude i don't feel like getting on a plane today honestly like as a college kid like i think that's sick yeah in the weather like i think i would enjoy it and love it but like it's tough i know it's how tough it is on the bodies and like i said there's also school and love it but like it's tough i know it's how tough it is

on the bodies and like i said there's also school to think about you're missing exams you're missing all these things so it's very difficult um i think it would have been cool still like how they expanded it and you're going out into the west coast that's pretty cool but um definitely would have been difficult as a student athlete um yeah so we like like god said we got a lot to go to so we'll move into you know the current goings-ons uh going-ons uh with the columbus crew obviously you guys fell to the new york red bulls we don't have to rehash that too much i was curious as to what's like what's the fall up in one of the last couple weeks been or however many days um since that loss to the

red bulls what are those exit meetings what is the vibe around the club right now yeah it's a tough one you know i think this team we accomplished a lot this year set a lot of club records but ultimately mls cup is it's the big trophy in this league so um definitely a lot of disappointment um so a lot to be proud of with you know all the records we set um winning the league's cup uh how far they went in the concaf champions cup so a lot to be proud of but uh just kind of a somber feeling you know everyone knows that we had the team to to go far in the tournament um but uh credit to red bull they they play really well defend well and their goalie still in his head a couple times so yeah it's uh that's you know that's just the game and you know you're seeing it with other games around the league as

well um i mean the perry ennis league is incredible, and, you know, it's tough to win. So, again, sorry, we'll get kind of more into, you know, the season and stuff, but I also wanted to just derail this really quick, that we're recording this at a time during the international break for the U.S. national team. Look, you have eight caps with the group. You're at the Gold Cup. Your last one came in the January camp. Obviously, there's been a lot of change around this program.

Mauricio Pochettino has taken over. Have there been any conversations with Pochettino and his staff since he took over? No, I haven't had any contact with the staff. I've been on reserve rosters, so that means I'm at least close, still in the picture, so I'm doing what I can. And then when I get that call, I'll be ready. Is that disappointing to not hear from her? Like, again, I think that the average fan might not understand

how much communication comes from a coaching staff to players, again, whether it's, you know, the first name on a team sheet or somebody who's kind of in and within the pool. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I haven't really been contacted that much from the U.S. coaches in general, my tenure. So I can't say that it's disappointing because I'm not sure how many guys he is reaching out to. So, mean like I said I'm kind of in the dark there but like I said I'm gonna do what I can do and if I do get the call I'm sure I'll be ready as that piece of your career national

team obviously it's it's huge for a lot of people it's obviously a huge honor there are so many people that go in and out of the camp do you have people in your life that you talk to about it or people that have been through something similar that you talk to about it or people that have been through something similar that you lean on when you think about, you know, how can I get back in the team or how I should react to not being called up? Or should I go watch the game when, you know, when I'm not in the team? Yeah, I watch every game. Fair.

Yeah. Good answer. I'm proud of it and it's the place I want to be, so I want to see what they look like in the game, what I can work on, what I think the outside backs or ringbacks aren't doing that I can do. So I'm always watching. I'm always being a student of the game, taking everything in. But, yeah, a guy like Matt Turner, a good friend of mine.

I reach out to him. We talk a decent amount. So that's someone I can lean on. And he's had his ups and downs as well. So a guy with a lot of great experience and a good friend of mine i reach out to him we talk a decent amount so that's someone i can lean on and you know he's had his ups and downs as well so a guy with a lot of great experience and a good friend of mine have you been in the carpool with his mom i think that's like a big ad that they have running right now i saw that i saw that i gotta i gotta talk to his mom tell her she did great um yeah that's pretty cool commercial i'm like i should get on heck? How'd she get on the team?

Thinks you got a fee? Yeah, yeah. It was cool to see his family getting all that attention. He deserves it all. She is the star of the whole thing, I would say. For yourself, you met Matt Turner, of course, playing with New England. And then you got traded this year to Columbus. Let's talk about the year in general.

You started the year over a year ago playing for the New England Revolution under Bruce Arena, thinking you were pushing for MLS Cup. And then something happens in the middle of the year that throws all that off. And then continuing into the next year, all of a sudden you're playing in Columbus and it's just a huge and massive change. What is the last 18 months been like for you and how do you process that while still doing what you want to do on the field? Yeah, like you said, it's a lot. You know, when you say that, it feels like that's like three years ago. Like so many seasons have happened, you know, since Bruce's departure. But yeah, it's been a lot. You know, it's been maybe even more draining than i've admitted or thought about um so i think this off season you know now i'm here in columbus it's a good time to just reflect and and think about everything that i've been through and a lot of changes in my life as well i just got married

this march so there's a lot of a lot of big changes thank you a lot of big changes are happening in my life uh you know in the last 18 months so um yeah i'm just grateful for it all i know everything happens for a reason and yeah that's all i do just keep keep going uh so so we'll get to columbus and everything else that happened this year but i guess just one more on that situation with bruce arena like kind of put us in the locker room during that time like from my understanding at least there a lot of you guys were in the dark as well a lot of you guys kind of didn't know exactly what was going on so what is that like as a player and what were those like you know month or six weeks whatever that was what was that like yeah it was difficult i think bruce's

last game with us we won 5-1 and we're coming in we're like all right like you know what's the next game and then they're like yeah bruce is away from the team for a bit like could be a week could be could be longer could be shorter like we don't know yet so and then like you know we just don't really care anything for a few weeks two three weeks and then another update like oh we're still still waiting to hear so a lot of them are serving me and um yeah a lot of confusion um for sure um and then he just resigned and like we found out right right after a game against minnesota like one guy got on the phone and saw it. Club president comes in and goes, before you check your phones, this happened. We're like, what?

It was a pretty crazy time. Again, we're trying to just stay positive and control on the field. When there's so many question marks on what's going on and no clear answers, no real direction, it was difficult for sure. We want to ask you about Wilfred Nance, the coach you play for now.

There's a lot of fascination, but I want to ask one more, which is Bruce Arena is now back in Major League Soccer. He's taking over in San Jose. Give players in San Jose or fans an idea of what it was like to play for him and what he brings. Yeah, he brings a winning culture for sure. One thing about Bruce is I feel like the vibes are usually really high. You know, he keeps really good morale within the team,

and he sets the guys up, and then he allows their creativity and their soccer to take over. And it was successful for us at the Rebs, and I think it will be successful at San Jose as well. So excited to see what he can do with the group, and I think they'll definitely have a better season next year. And yeah, I think he'll bring a lot of positive change to the organization.

Let's talk about your current coach. Wilfred Nance, up for coach of the year every year. Never wins it, weirdly. And obviously, I made the joke before, impossible is nothing or whatever it is he says. What is he like? What's it like working under him? What was it like coming under him what was it

like coming in mid-season and and having these few months yeah he's uh he's an intense guy um very playful though you know he can joke around and but on the field it's serious um and yeah i like the way that he inspires guys to just you know play courageously you know the amount of times we build out a situation where i'm like, I'm going to try to build up here. Yeah. Reaches composure, and it shows throughout the group, and it gives a lot of the guys confidence.

So it's been really cool to learn under him and see how his brain thinks. It's honestly like he just thinks different about the game. He sees things, and it's like, oh, wow. And he tries things, and then I'm seeing the guys can just flip formations quick. And I'm like, these guys don't know how to train. My first couple of weeks, I'm like, what?

It's like three, two, two, four. I'm like, what the heck's going on? So definitely a learning curve the first few weeks. And each and everything was new for me and your staff. And that was good to learn under him. And I'm excited to continue to learn and grow. I think he can really help unlock that next level for me and new staff and that was good to learn under him and i'm excited to continue to learn and grow i think he can really help unlock you know that next level for me in my career so you get to columbus this summer in the trade uh from the outside i'll tell you i was shocked um in reporting this out in the move so for you did you have any idea that this might happen that

there might have been something you know possibly this summer within the league rather than abroad which again i'm going to ask you about later as well and kind of what were your what were your first reactions when they told you hey pack your bags like you're going to columbus yeah it was a complete shock for me i uh i was like we had a like a four-day break um from league league cup break and i was in chicago with my wife we're about to go on the architecture tour so we're about to those things are great yeah i'm about to leave the hotel room and I get a call from the GM and then I'm just I'm just taking a call listening answering uh responding and then I just sit down in the bed my wife's like let's go we're gonna be late I'm like one second just like processing everything that was a lot you know I wasn't even, like, in Boston. I was away.

Thankfully, I was going back the next day. Then I get a call from the GM. I'm like, screw you, sir. Excited to have you. And I'm just like, what's going on? Like, oh, life just shifted, you know, in 30 minutes. So, definitely it was, like, it was surprising and, like, sad just because, you know, I've had my whole career in Boston. And, you know, my teammates, like, family and, you know, the fans, everyone in the community that I've had my whole career in Boston, and my teammates, my family, and the fans,

everyone in the community that I've worked with, it was definitely just tough to wrap my head around that in 24 hours I'm going to be on a flight to Columbus. So definitely difficult, but also it was Columbus, and it's an attractive team to play for. I love watching them play, and they're competing for trophies in every competition. So it was

exciting in that regard but also it was like uh just sad you know to be you know everything i know as a professional were you angry i would say a little bit just just that i had no idea so it just really caught me off guard and like you said it was it was just see ya like you gotta be on the flight out tomorrow um So definitely a little anger. But again, I just trust God, and I know that he has a plan for my life. So yeah, I know he's doing things up there that maybe in five years I'll look back and say, wow, that was an amazing move. I have one hypothesis of what might be amazing in that change,

but we can get back to that in a minute. But so off the field, right? Like, so it's easy for fans and for idiots like me and David Goss to talk, play, play fantasy GM, talk about,

Oh my God, Dwan at Columbus. That'd be awesome. Or what like this and that, like, you know, what is it like for you off the field? What is it like for you and your wife,

like family stuff? Like what is, how do you process all of that in, in terms of like at the end of the day like it is work it is a job and there's so much more to your life than soccer and where you live and what you're doing definitely yeah you don't think about that especially middle of the season you know you just feel like oh that happens but like oh that would never happen to me you know it's one of those things until it happens to you um so yeah like i said it caught me off

guard and then my wife she just moved in with me uh this March and she was getting really close with you know a lot of the wives out in Boston so for her to it you know it's devastating and you have to start over and you're leaving a place you're familiar with um but thankfully it is it is closer to my family here in Michigan so that was that was a positive aspect but like you said you're just you're picking up your whole life and and moving to a different city and kind of starting over. So, yeah, I think a lot of fans don't understand that side of it, that we are humans, we have a family, we have, you know, community,

wherever we are. So to pick up and go somewhere else is super difficult, especially in the middle of the season. So on the field, and again, my hypothesis of one of the positive changes I'd imagine is playing style and everything that kind of one of the positive changes i'd imagine is playing style and everything that kind of comes in the locker room from these two teams what are uh some of the differences from going from caleb borda to wilford noncy and one you know day by day i would say one of the biggest differences is less meetings

we don't we don't meet as as much in terms of like big meetings. Like we have a, we actually have a TV outside on the training pitch. So sometimes right before a training, we'll go out there and look at something real quick. But then also like we don't focus on the other team as much. Like we literally do scouting on the other team the day of the game. So it's pretty much like all, all about us. And obviously we need to know what the

other team tendencies are but we really focus on our team and yeah i would say that's that's the biggest the biggest difference how does you you talked about sort of the style of play a little bit and we see it from the outside but it's interesting to hear from the inside there of the you know the amount of resources you have time and energy the focus being on the group what is that sort of like in training as you are trying to break into the team and and understand everything that's going on about this sort of new style and and new focus being so internal yeah i mean every training session is like you have to you have to do your best you know especially as a new guy coming in the team's been doing well so you is like you have to do your best, especially as a new guy coming in.

The team's been doing well. So you have to show why you should be out there. You know, everyone has to earn their position week in, week out. So definitely a difficult training atmosphere, but, you know, it's challenging and that's what you want as a player. You want to be challenged up each and every day. And like I said, a ton of different drills. I mean, just a lot of changes that a lot of more

like small side of possessions and really tight spaces um so just a lot of different things that that i wasn't used to with you know playing under brewis or playing under caleb so yeah it's definitely been definitely been an adjustment but i mean like i said ultimately i think all this will do is help expand my game and and help me grow into an even better player. You talked a little bit about the surprise of being moved. But thanks to the guy, if anyone's not watching underneath me, Tom, there's been some reporting that you have been talked about in Europe and about potential moves. So the idea, I assume, was in your mind that maybe you weren't going to finish your career with the New England Revolution. How did you see maybe what your path would be like?

And were there any moves that you thought were going to happen or any places that you thought were the right spots for you? Yeah. A few years ago, there was an interest in Stuttgart and I thought that that was going to happen, but you know, and football things are, you know, it depends on this guy getting moved and this happening and this happening and uh this GM's still going to be there so there's a lot of things that that can change you know moves so to get a move across is difficult and yeah it didn't happen

yet but you know I'm still holding out that that I can I can make that move I think playing in Europe would be would be amazing for my career just to experience football as the main sport and just to see how different it is over there. So I do still have that aspiration. But again, I'm letting God lead me, and all I can do is do my best. And that's what I'll do each and every day. And if the opportunity presents itself and it works for my family and I, then we'll make that move.

What's the outlook for 2025 and beyond? Win games, improve, play for the national team. But, yeah, just getting better every day and challenging myself. I wanted to leave you with one since you now play for Columbus and you're free to say whatever you want. Between you and Brandon, who's the best fullback slash wingback in MLS? That's my boy. He knows the answer too.

It's me. That's my brother, though. Super proud of him, you know, coming back from the ACL injury. I think he's done great since he's returned. I know with the offseason, more time to rest, he'll be even better for next year. Happy he returned and he's playing at a high level. All right.

We might have to have Brandon on at some point for a rebuttal, just to be fair. Look, Duan, thank you so much for your time. Always love watching your success and the way that your teammates talk about you. I think that that goes a long way. I appreciate you taking the time for us. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Dave.

All right. We will talk to all of you again, very, very soon. Thank you to all of you for joining us. Thank you to all of you who sent questions. Most thank you to DeJuan Jones for taking the time to chat with us as well. And we'll talk to you all again very, very soon.