SoccerWise - MLS Edition: League Watchability Rankings & Leagues Cup Final

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

We go again! Crew vs LAFC for a chance to lift a trophy this time in Leagues Cup Tom & Gass are stoked to break it all down. With MLS regular season returning this weekend the crew ranks all 29 teams in terms of watchability. But first Tom sits down with newly extended Orlando City forward Duncan McGuire. 8:36 Leagues Cup Semi Reaction 26:30 Finals Preview 36:12 Duncan McGuire Interview 46:51 MLS Watchability Rankings Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

we'll see you next time. is ready to return. Tom, you feel in full season mode. I talked to Jordan about it yesterday. NWSL returns this weekend as well. We talked about, for her, getting ready, stretching, getting your fitness back. Do you feel ready? I should feel more ready. I should be in better fitness. I should be in better shape.

That's true. But we're just going to grind through. We're going to survive it. That's just a life thing. That's not a watching MLS thing. No, this is the fun time of the year. Like, League's Cup when we get to the quarterfinals, semis, final, and then MLS resumes in August now with the stretch run coming at the end of the season

and then getting into playoffs. Like, the next, what, three and a half months are going to go by in a blur, I think, and all these games. It's a little bit different than watching MLS at the end of March, early April when it's kind of dragging a little bit. And you're past that early season, happy the teams are back, can't wait to see all the new things and learn. And then it's like, well, it's April 15th and we have, you know,

six months until the playoffs and this is tough. It is very much like that. I'm glad you could bring me back into that mental space, right as you were saying, we're not in that space. We're're in a different space but let me remind you of all of those other things that are a little bit tougher it is uh it's interesting i think league's cup quarterfinal was like i thought fantastic the semis i was a little less engaged by uh maybe that's midweek stuff maybe it's the way the game's played out um whatever it is so now coming back into mls i'm a little bit like huh you know i thought i was like super ready for it i

think the exciting part is the debuts right like there are a lot of pieces that we thought we'd see in league's cup and how many moves happen late in the window where those teams are already eliminated where you're like all right and now you've got the olympics over and all of that stuff like i think that's the part where like this weekend i'm doing the the starting lineup search where it's like oh during the seven you know at 7 30 i'm looking at the 8 30 games being like who's starting who's playing how do these look because that's how i'm going to figure out like who i want to watch yep somewhat but the other way i'm going to figure it out is by looking at tom bogert's watchability rankings and say, Tom, you are the purveyor of all things soccer culture.

The committee of one has, has handed out the rulings and updated one to 29 and the watchability rankings. We're going to get to that later in the show. I'm looking very forward to it. A lot of that intrigue is going to be part of it. Like some of the teams it's like, yeah, the worst is the combination of bad. we just know what you are and you know the best is some of these that i think what's super fun about this season the top six teams are all extremely fun to watch on top

of just being good like there isn't like any like lafc is probably the closest thing to air quote like a boring really good team and they have perhaps the most fun player in the league to watch and denny belong right like so all those teams rate very highly this it this isn't supposed to be just you know good versus bad this isn't a power rankings this is you know when when you're scrolling through these you know 14 games on a saturday what are you prioritizing and this year more than ever that is very important before we dig into all of this uh mls announced its playoff schedule today i think maybe yesterday i was paying attention to that much uh obviously we knew when mls cup was so you get decision day there's no international break from decision day all the way through to the conference semi-finals or that round of three. I don't know what the round of three is called.

Sorry. Round one. Then there's an international break. Yeah. But, like, I guess it's the quarterfinals, right? I don't know. Because then it goes to the semis. There is no break between that.

So October 19th is decision day. November 10th is that end of the or latest end of the round of three. I guess in theory if all series went to two games, it wouldn't go that far. Then there's an international break. And then on November 23rd, the semifinals come back or the conference semifinals come back. Then you've got the conference finals the next week. And then you go into MLS cup on Saturday,

December 7th. So an okay flow. I think you at least don't lose the energy of like decision day to everyone's still playing because the best part of the playoffs actually is when the most teams are still in because you've got a lot of teams like involved and you're excited. And we had a question in the mailbag on our discord, which if you are not a part of, you can subscribe to our Patreon to become part of our discord and you can chat with all of us.

You can get into the mailbag as well. It's the only way to access our mailbag, and we are planning our happy hour for next Wednesday night. We're going to be doing it during the U.S. Open Cup semifinals of LAFC against Seattle. It's going to be me and you hanging out with our MVP subscribers on Zoom. So if you want to be a part of that, you can still subscribe and get in there, and we'll send you that link.

But one of the questions in there that was asked, which I think I'll dig into more on Monday, is are we past the time where, yes, anyone in MLS can beat anyone, but can they win a championship? Can they do it five times or has the league sort of been broken? And in saying that, and I don't know if you have an answer to that off the top of your head, but in saying that, that's where the first round is still, or the first two rounds are still the most exciting. Because you are in, like, anyone can lose, anyone can win. And now we're in, like, LAFC Columbus about to play for a second straight final because it does feel like there's a little bit of a gap building in those high-intensity moments. The spirit of what you're saying is absolutely correct. Except the best of three first round stuff is the antithesis of excitement to me it does nothing for me it elongates the first round that doesn't need

to be elongated there is what 18 or 16 teams left at that stage why are like we're not doing this for sporting reasons we're doing this for you know selling tickets and adding games to season pass like it's frustrating to me as as we've talked about on previous shows when it's decisions on the field are being dictated too much by business reasons and i understand that that has to be part of it but i really hate the best of three first round um i like my favorite part or my favorite playoff structure was when they did it between the October and November international breaks. So it was single elimination,

top seven in each conference, make it first place, gets a buy for each. And yes, it was imperfect where the first place team, because of the international break, then getting the buy, they were off for two and a half weeks or whatever.

And then that's an easy excuse. If you get upset and you lose, but single elimination, you get the home field advantage. So the regular season matters. The regular season matters more because seven teams make the playoffs instead of nine. And just going on down that way,

it's just, it's just too much for me. And again, like look at those dates. Like how long does the first round take? It's Saturday, October 26th and Sunday, November 10th.

It's just way too long for the first round of the playoffs Yeah I can understand everything you say And if we were structuring things I would change them But also, I'm telling you Those three weeks, I think, are going to be my favorite part of the season Which is not a reason to do it

Because In what you say It should be you say, it should be single elimination. There should be less teams in my favorite part of the season should be September to October. Like the best part of the season should be that run into the playoffs where everyone is competing for a spot. And those regular season games are meaningful in absence of that. It becomes the first two rounds of the playoffs are probably the most exciting part of the season so yep i don't disagree with you heavily there as i said we were going to have a rematch of mls cup for the league's cup final after columbus and lafc did the business in the semi-finals let's dig into

those games for a moment before we get to our preview of the final, and then we'll get to our MLS watchability rankings. Also, if you're listening via podcast, Tom Bogert has an interview with Duncan McGuire, newly signed Orlando City Center forward on a long-term contract. If you're watching live, you're going to have to go to the podcast to find that. And if you are listening, just stay where you are and just hang out and enjoy it. It is a fantastic interview, as Tom always does. Send your scoops, Tom, your Columbus takeaway from another Columbus crew-like performance. Yeah, I'm running out of different ways to describe it because this game is like...

Do it. Find another word. Like the last game and like the games before that when they do things right, when things go to plan, and even just generally goes to plan. It doesn't need to be like an A+. They, when they do things right, when things go to plan, and even just generally goes to plan, it doesn't need to be like an A-plus. They get everything correct. You know, every bounce goes their way.

Every pass is crisp. As long as it's like more good than bad, they're going to win at home. And particularly against this Philadelphia Union team, this kind of felt like the last big chance at a trophy for this group. You've got to imagine that there's going to continue to be more and more change again obviously there already has been with julian granza leaving early this season jose martinez uh about to be at corinthians or he's already in brazil wherever right like you kind of go on down the list ali bedoya it's got to be on his last legs he's kind

of going through this era that has been so much fun so um so good except just the one trophy in the sports field and obviously a lot of playoff and knockout round disappointment and heartbreak. This played out exactly how we kind of thought it would. Columbus dominated the game. Philly were going to have to win on set pieces, and then they were honestly going to have to hope that Columbus didn't play to the top of their ability, and that didn't happen. This was just a case of a really good team.

The better team won. The better team was playing at home just pretty straightforward it was straightforward but i don't think we can discount that like there were large stretches of this game that felt like a training session for columbus against the team that is second in mls in the last five years in wins and points is a battle-tested, hardened group. And while they don't have everyone, Ty Burribo, I thought Jim Curtin's quote pregame about being suspended

for the two softest yellow cards he's ever seen was classic Jim Curtin. So thank you, Jim, for being yourself. And obviously, as you said, sold Jose Martinez and they don't have Kranz anymore or whatever. But this is a team that's hard to play against in philadelphia they're a team that makes you feel them and they are a team that's been here before columbus plays knockout games like they're not knockout games the the the flow in the team the like the personality they play with the style they play with in these high leverage moments is one of the soccer teams I've ever seen that treats it like it's not. And it's why they're so fun to watch, because any team you talk about, any great team you love to watch, the Barcelona teams in their prime years, the U.S.

women, women winning competitions, the Spanish women's national team the spain men's national team go back and watch quarter semis and finals and they are one zero games with zero opportunities and columbus does not give a shit about any of it and like for the second straight knockout game they gave up one of the worst goals you will see and it's you see on this one the ball turns over they get scored on and marera's kind of running past schulte to try and cover and he goes to throw a hand up to complain and then like does it and camacho kind of looks over and does like uh things happen type moment rather than what taylor twelman's doing which is screaming at patrick schulte to clear it into rosette and you know try and beat blackpool in a big game.

Like this is a Columbus team that doesn't care about any of this. And it is, it's obviously fun to watch, but it, it just like, that's the, the next thing I could think of to explain what we're watching is like Diego Rossi,

just playing like it's Rondo's in a semifinal with a spot in the Champions Cup on the line, with a spot to host the final, like all these things. It is incredible. It's to non-say a ton. But I also think it's a ton to these players. And like you watch this game and you talk about the opening goal. And like it's a bit of a mistake for Blake. It's a tough situation for Philadelphia.

But Cucho just hits a ball clean. Even when it's a cross. It's dipping. It's got power. It skips in an awkward spot. Like, it's all these things where it's like, he's elite. Rossi's elite. Nagby's elite.

So many of these guys are so good. And they've got this clear identity. And in that second half there was just moments that i was sitting there saying what am i watching right now yeah like i think that's a really salient point that they treat every game the same doesn't matter who they're playing it doesn't matter what competition it doesn't matter the game state even sometimes to their detriment going back to last year beginning of the season when they were um a little bit naive but this is how they play it's empowering to. It's why that they play,

like why that they get the most out of all this. It's why every single player under Wilfred Nuncy essentially has their career best season because it's so empowering. And it's, you know, you don't have to think about it. Like it's an intelligent style of play, but it's not like, oh crap, like do we need to recoil a little bit?

Oh, these next 10 minutes we just need to get through. We'll drop our lines, right? It's like, no, you don't think about that, you just play the way you're playing, and hey, we think that we're gonna beat you no matter who you are, no matter how you're playing, no matter what you're doing, and hey, good luck, you know, it's like, at the penalty spot, hey, I'm gonna put it in the left corner, save it if you want, good luck, I'm gonna throw my fastball, hit it if you can, if you can't, truck out, like, that's what this Columbus crew team is, and it's so much fun, like, There is no Manchester City, there is no Bayern Munich,

there is no PSG when it comes to MLS, right? This is the closest I think we have. And we were thinking that might be Miami this season because of Lionel Messi, because of Luis Suarez on a non-DP deal, Jordi Alba on a non-DP deal, and all the U22 initiatives that are three of the best U22 initiatives in the league. We thought Miami might be this. Columbus is the Manchester City of MLS.

Wow. Mic drop right there. And granted, because it's MLS, if Cucho gets sold in the winter and Nagby... It's all over. But even a two-year run of somebody being Manchester City and MLS, even doing it from opening day to MLS Cup,

again, look back to last year. Columbus really came on as like, oh, they're a really fun team to oh my god, they're going to challenge for trophies. It was around the Camacho trade and Marrero really, really taking off at that right center back role and everything else. They went from a super fun

team that like, oh, I don't know if you know mature enough to defend i don't know if they have right to pieces like this is just a fun story like so like that wasn't even like it for the full season last year so the fact that we're at like probably a little bit more of a calendar year uh just straight dominance from the columbus crew like even that in and of itself is extremely impressive in a league like this they got robbed a little because i'm i was gonna rattle off like they will host a minimum of three finals in a 12 month span because they hosted mls cup they'll now host the league's cup final they will host the campiones cup final they qualified for the conca cap final they're just it became a one leg game at a different location in the middle of like everyone playing in it so i would want to say

that they'll have hosted four finals in 12 months at a minimum potentially five if they're able to get there in mls cup but i can't say that in theory but like yeah it's just everything about this team is what you want and we were having a conversation before the show about like other teams that have struggled for relevance and fans and all these things how quickly could they turn it on and turn it around and columbus was the example i brought up of like i don't know that other teams could do the columbus no because you had the history and the hierarchy in the city and like where this club already stood you brought in new ownership you built the downtown stadium and then you built a winning team it is it's all of the things i'm not sure that another team could replicate that just because

the crew have a history and like they have this standing in the city already where some other teams that i'll just be real i was talking about the red bulls and whether the red bulls could get there and how quickly it would take and like what it would take for them i don't think they have that standing in that history that Columbus does, but I can't imagine any fan not showing up to watch these games. So like, if you build a team like this and I'm not saying it's possible because non say is a huge part of it.

And Cucho is a special case and all of that. But if you tried and you did, it's hard to think that there's any fan base that wouldn't come out to watch this team for Philadelphia. They still get the shot in the third place game at a CONCACAF spot for next year. I don't know if that's a good thing. At some point we got to start talking about like,

if you can't win that thing, you don't get money. Like it's Europe where it's like, we got to get into Europa league. Cause we got to get the 15 million pound payout or Euro payout, whatever it is. You don't get that much money. And like,

it is hard. And for a team that doesn't build that deep and don't get that much money and like it is hard and for a team that doesn't build that deep and doesn't have that many options i don't know if it's a positive every single year to be in that it's obviously a place you want to sit in as a club but we saw them come up against the wall once again here we talked about it on tuesday we don't have to dig into it super deep but like this is the wall they continue to hit and in that question in the mailbag of like the haves and have nots and being able to beat each other on any day but then it shifts when it really matters philadelphia is is one of the big i think examples of that of like

their inability to get over the three or four halves each year where they can get themselves into that spot. And I think in talking about the club, you should talk about the players and coaches in one side and ownership in the club in another side. And the players and coaches should be complimented for the fact that they have been in this many finals and semis. Yes. And that they have pushed things as hard as they could. But then you feel the angst from the fans saying but we're they're not being followed up with this is how they get over the line and this is how they get there they never really had a shot in this game they get the goal a few half chances around that but they were not

going to beat this columbus team with you know the way they are the way they're playing and all of that um right now i don't know if anyone can but if it's going to be someone it's going to have to be lafc they knock off colorado 3-0 up the fucking pids on this one it was a tough night in the end i sent that message into the discord in like the 30th minute where i was like oh colorado's playing colorado's out here they're fueling themselves a little bit They were playing east to west a bit. It was like opening five, six minutes. LAFC's all over them. Stephan makes a big save. They're lucky to still be in the game.

And then after that, it starts to settle a little. And Colorado looked like the better team. And they looked like they had their ideas. And they were crisp on the ball. And they were going to create chances. And then it hits you like that when it's LAFC. And it hits you fast. Bogush with a stunner off a Jesus Murillo assist out of midfield,

which was one of my favorite moments. And then Kai two minutes later. And at that point even, you're kind of like, yeah, this game's done. Yeah. And I got, like, just as a neutral, that was a little bit disappointing because what was that in the 30-something minute? Oh, the 45th minute. It was right before halftime.

Because it's like, oh, like you said, the Columbus I thought were playing well. It was like, all right, this is a super fun game. We'll see what happens over the next 60 minutes or whatever. Then the Bogus one, it was like, oh, man, that was a really good finish by LAFC. Let's see what happens over the next 5 to 15 minutes. LAFC just get better when they're playing with the lead. And not that that's the case for most teams, but particularly for this team, particularly in this setup with the five at the back

and with Danny Boulang on the left wing and Bogus on the right wing for this one. Like, this team, the more that you have to come forward, the more that you have to try to take the game to them, the more and more dangerous LAFC you get. So it was like, all right, like, let's see how good. And it was like immediately Kai scores. And it was like, oh, this game's over.

It's halftime. It's late. We're going to keep watching no matter what, right? But it's like, oh game's over it's halftime it's late we're gonna keep watching no matter what right but it's like oh man like this had so much more uh potential for like a really really great game but that's all credit to LAFC their quality their execution their setup um again like I I know that we'll get to this in a few minutes but like I just can't stop thinking about like I can't wait to see what this five at the back looks like against the columbus crew because again the last time they played when the crew won thrash and five one they were playing the four three three which is their standard typical formation when they shifted to that five at the back with hollingshead and palencia as the air

quote wingbacks i was like this is boring this is disappointing this is like come on like you could like this team is better than this this team team has more quality than this. You don't need to react like this because you got shredded by the crew, right? Well, they were completely correct. And, like, this is the way that they should be playing. This is the most effective for them right now. And, you know, maybe we want to see them play more like Columbus or something, you know, in that family. But, like, this is the best way for trophies for them. So I'm really, really interested to see how that tactical battle is going to play out in the final i want to dunk on you because i got the philadelphia

starting lineup right in saying it wouldn't be sam and dennerin and i gave all the options you said what would you do tom you suck what i thought i thought you already transitioned us away from this team. What is this? I did, but then I remembered it, and I had to come back. I was on the phone with someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, and the lineup came out, and I opened it up, and I go, I'm so good at this. And then you were right that Giroud didn't start.

So credit to you there. Kai Kamara scores and then immediately comes off at half time for Giroud. It is, like, it's not his fault it's just he lives in a ridiculous setup like and it's been his existence for a while now and you get it and you're not surprised but he scores he plays well and then Olivier Giroud comes up yeah it's it's just the whole thing is bizarre right now for this team that was such a classic mls substitution kai kamara out olivia gerudin was like dude that only happens in this league and yeah it was uh i forget who the the broadcast team was this already for so i apologize but like they made the joke it's like oh they just got younger by bringing on olivia gerudin it's like oh my god

that's right like because the way kai plays dude you still like i still think it's 2014 he's like a physical specimen it's it's awesome awesome the shape he's in, how springy he looks. I'd still favor him in an aerial with anybody. He can still dust somebody down the wing. It's incredible. Shout out to Kai Kamara. His ability to keep up with his teammates in transition is massive. In this team in particular, too.

This specific team, it's crazy. For sure. Yeah, too. Like, this specific team, it's crazy. For sure. Yeah, exactly. Let me ask it this way. If you were in the open field and Dennis Boulanga was running full steam. No, I would try to, and I would miss. I was about to say, forget that. Yeah, I wouldn't get anywhere near him. How brown would your pants be post-game if you had to live through that experience?

It is a freight train. And it is elite because I think, and this is how I was taught to handle situations like this, is take as much space as you can for a mistake to occur. At some point, there will be a bobble. At some point, there will be a long touch. At some point, the attacker will bring their body close enough to you for you to engage them or someone recovers there's never a bad touch easy for like 70 yards and then he can finish and like that's the whole part where it's like yeah foul him take him down the assumption

is most players just won't complete that play. And, like, you're going to get your opportunity. And then when you decide, uh-oh, you're too late because you're either on your own penalty spot or it's going to be a red card. This needs to be treated like Steph Curry in the NBA in the way that you never had to pick up somebody when they crossed the half-court line. And it took teams way too long

to adapt to he's different the rules don't apply to him after a corner if buonga touches the ball even if he's trying to clear it jump on him take the yellow it doesn't matter like there has to be different rules for this specific player like you said like he took a perfect touch forward that ryan hollings had either thought was a pass or a bad touch. And Hollingshead kind of barely touched it with his foot. 75 yards from goal. I'm going to look at the stats. He got credited with an assist for that. Beautiful.

That's high IQ play by Ryan Hollingshead. I'm just touching it with the bottom of my studs. That's why Will Ferrell's got the jersey on. That's elite stuff. But like you said, man, it wasn't a clean break. The Rapids had, it wasn't the perfect rest defense. It wasn't the perfect transition defense., it wasn't a clean break. The Rapids had... It wasn't the perfect rest defense. It wasn't the perfect transition defense. But it wasn't a jailbreak. It wasn't

Buanga just sprinting past. All of his touches were perfect. The angles were perfect. And he doesn't need to break stride in any way to run by players or to set himself up to shoot. And it was like a calm finish. It's easy for us for watching him now,

particularly at this level for the last more than a year and a half now. And he showed flashes of it when he arrived two years ago. How in the world did this dude not get bought by a team in France that were like Europa League quality? I don't understand. Because he hopped off a plane at LAX with a dream and a cardigan. Like, once you're in the big city, you don't want to go anywhere else. No, but I'm saying, like, how did LAFC sign him for, like, $4 or $5 million?

Are you kidding me? Yeah, it's incredible. And it is, like I said on Tuesday and on Monday, it is their cheat code to have maintained performance, maintained results when roster and performance have not always been cleanly in line with it he has carried this team in moments when they don't deserve to be in the bigger conversations or they're not really equipped to beat some of these teams I think they are now I understand they just lost at home 5-1 to Columbus. I just don't believe that's who they are.

And like, Ilya, you're welcome. Columbus are favorites. Ilya Sanchez asked people to say that. It's like, bro, you're going to the reigning champions who just beat you twice and beat you there and have lost twice. They're like, cool. Yeah, Ilya, you like to be the underdog you

are the underdog but this team is good and they're better than they were last year at mls cup there there's zero doubt in my mind they are a better team and i think this is a different game than it was last fall they're a better team than they were six weeks ago when they played yeah in in los angeles like again like the tactical shift and the addition of Giroud, the continued emergence of Matty Boguch, Kiki Alvera, all this team is better than they were. And again, we're talking about Louis O'Brien in previous shows. He scores his first goal.

Why not? Why not add a fourth? You can bring on Louis O'Brien and Olivier Giroud. And meanwhile, Colorado are stepping on Kamani stewart baines calvin harris and and oliver loraz like stuff don't do kamani stewart baines like that it's not like that's a normal lifestyle normal bench those are decent subs when you're chasing result it's like oh but the other team's bringing in olivier gerud and lewis o'brien and omar campos what was he you know three to five million dollars like uh, U-22 initiative left back?

Like, great. Eddie Segura, once, like, before he got injured, was in the Defender of the Year discussion. Great. Cool. We'll bring on Jasper Laffelson. Nice. What are we supposed to do?

Yeah. It is, it's brutal for Colorado. Columbus are obviously different. We watched this game play out a year ago. The Seattle game, I put the numbers next to each other. LAFC played a similar game model with more possession and more danger and gave up less chances this year. That could be a Seattle conversation.

I think both of us think that's partially an LAFC conversation. How different do you think this game plays out against columbus or what different is there about lafc yeah i mean the obvious is is the tactical shift the three at the back i think that should help them deal with the you know constant tsunamis the constant overloads that come from the movement of that front three and then the wingbacks that that join or if it's a center mid that comes in. So I think the back three is going to help a lot with that. Obviously, it's still going to require intelligence, hard work, and communication because with what this sacrifices

while you're adding that number in central defense, you're losing a number in central midfield. And that's another place that Columbus can overload. So I'm curious to see if they're going to keep trying or like again they've made so much success wide overloads big switches quick switches all that so if a team then stretches to play five two three do they kind of opt for all right Kucho drops in to get on the ball in the midfield or um a wingback pinches in and or the outside center back sorry steps up and then that's where the numerical advantage is and i'm sure that that's going to be a big topic for

both teams and training going into this game and i'm very very curious to see how that's going to play out how do you think it's going to play out guys i think you're right in that like the danger for lafc the ability to mirror columb Columbus so that they can be stretched wide with them comfortably. And you go back to MLS Cup and you say the Odminson ball is in that right channel, which you can now have a center back permanently occupying. That is safer to me for LAFC. And then giving up that central midfield, which is like, there's not a clean option. Columbus is going to beat you somewhere. If they're going to beat you, they're going to try and beat you.

Like, yeah, it's not great to hear that Cucho can float in and maybe pick up the ball and Arsene can come inside and, you know, Steven Marrera can start to pick up pace. I'd rather all of that though, than potentially having an overload on the two sides of one of my center backs and having that danger coming from the edge of the 18 so i would take that um i talked about starting zharud against colorado i wouldn't start him in this game even if he could like i thought that was the game where you were going to have more possession you were going to play through him this isn't that game play it out sort of feel it out bonga the threat bogus this threatened transition um kai if that's the decision you choose to make there olivero did return in the last game he came off the bench against colorado to me if he's

healthy i want bonga bogus and olivero on the And like, I would give up the center forward spot, even though it's a weakness of Columbus, the aerial ball, because I want those three as a threatened transition as much as I can. And the Boguch is on fire right now. Blanc is obviously untouchable. And I think Oliveira fits in with all of it as you need it. So I think there are decisions to make there for LAFC, but I do think the decision is going to be what you said, which is like protect that back, be strong,

have as many numbers behind the ball as you can, and try and win as many 1v1 battles as possible because you are under pressure constantly. And like Sergio Palencia has been good. Man, Arfstin's feet are crazy. He is so comfortable on the ball with both feet. He's so quick off his first touch to just take a guy on and get into a dangerous area he'll shoot himself he'll set people up you already know

mo farcey's kind of like a bowling ball when he gets into that area and like attacking people 1v1 this is there are matchups like this where you get tired of it in the world of sports of like, uh, calves warriors. I don't need it for a fourth time. I'm good. We're not there yet with this one.

And like, I'm extremely excited to watch this one go down. I'm very excited as well. Uh, looking back at the semifinals again, both of these teams were favored and both of these teams were expected to win. Both are home.

Uh, but two numbers of Columbus grew 3.9 expected goals against the Philadelphia union, which is insane. Insane. No penalties. But two numbers of Columbus grew 3.9 expected goals against the Philadelphia Union, which is insane for a one-game sample size with no penalties. And 11 v. 11. That's like, yeah, well, they played man up for 45 minutes, and we just hunkered down. Yep.

And in LAFC's game, they limited the Colorado Rapids to 0.6 expected goals. And we started this segment talking about the Rapids were playing really good at the beginning of the game and then LAFC were kind of dropping deeper to let them play in their hands so that's what it's going to come down to can LAFC frustrate Columbus can LAFC hit them in transition can they dictate the game states the field tilt all that to play into their hands or is Columbus gonna override them like they have every other team that they've played essentially in the last 18 months it is gonna be a blast this is so much fun you've got legacy stuff for i think especially for lafc where if columbus wins this one it's like

we will remember this period as columbus's period if lafc takes this now it's like they're on even footing you go back across you know the two years you go back to gareth bale like you you have all this stuff but if lafc go and get punished in this one it's like whatever happens in the playoffs this year this was columbus's league for 12 months at a minimum and they dominated and um this is lafc's chance you couldn't ask for something better this is what you wanted You wanted the chance to go, even though you want it at home. I think you even want it more to go improve.

Last year was a fluke by doing the exact same thing again and overturning that result and like playing that with the way you want in their building against them. It's going to be an uphill battle. It's going to be a blast. That one is on Sunday evening at 7 15 PM. Eastern time is what it says on the website. I don't know why 7.15.

Maybe that means 7.38. Yeah, probably. The third place game, which is for a spot in CONCACAF Champions Cups at Subaru Park at 4.30 between the Philadelphia Union and the Colorado Rapids. I know you are personally probably going to go and referee that game you're so excited about no that's low-key a super fun game like a ccc spot on the line both of these how low key like how low i i would say it's high key to me but the reaction i've gotten in the group chat has suggested that it's low key i'm here for it i'll watch philly play play. I assume Ty Burribo's back. Yeah, we talked about it on Tuesday.

For Armis to get a champions, a CONCACAF spot this year is already a success. I think they have a lot to put into this game. I assume you put more into this game and you sort of can then rest guys coming out of it into MLS. If you're Colorado, who, as we talked about at the beginning of the show, they're already going to make the playoffs. So that part doesn't even matter as much going forward. We also have a full slate of MLS games on Saturday coming up, including Kansas City hosting Orlando City, Orlando returning after losing in League's Cup. You chatted with Duncan McGuire as he signed this contract extension.

So the Blackburn saga is over. The questions over his future are over and duncan mcguire is going to be an orlando city player for at least three more years yeah that's the idea orlando again as i've been reporting throughout this to like the very very long saga with the contract talks the blackburn failed move everything else the rumors for the summer orlando were insistent since the blackburn deal fell through because of you know the administrator forgot to click save instead of submit we don't want to lose him we didn't want to lose him for this like we agreed to let him go he was pushing for this move and everything and they haven't

changed their tune they're like we want to sign him to a new contract they had gone back and forth for a very long time and now it's and now it's over the line uh talking to duncan it was it was a player who was super level-headed. He was mature looking back and understanding. I think my favorite quote from that was he just kind of said with a smile when I was asking about the Blackburn stuff, when I was asking about how crazy it's been over the last nine months and stuff. He's like, yeah, I'm really happy with how everything worked out, a.k.a. that was insane in the moments of when it happened for Blackburn

and to that defaults everybody's like, I'm really happy that I signed a new contract here. He feels at home, and it's all genuine like it was cool to hear all right let's go to that interview right now deal's done finally I know it was a while but uh how's it feel to stay in Orlando commit your future to Orlando City um it feels good um ever since I came here last year it's honestly felt like like really good being here it's felt like a home um the fans and the community have you know always been behind my back especially at games i i love the way they uh support me and you know shout out to my teammates and coaches

for making this place you know going to work every day is really enjoyable so yeah i'm glad to sign the long term here and be here for a while yeah it's been a long saga obviously from after your breakout uh rookie season everything else that's gone on over the past nine months how does it feel just in general that things are settled you're not asking questions about what's going on am i leaving am i getting new contract whatever like how does it feel to have everything settled yeah um definitely been a roller coaster a little bit over the past nine months as you said but uh yeah you know um it feels good to have everything done and you know set in stone now i'm i'm happy with uh emmy's alt um i'm very happy that i'm staying in

orlando um yeah i mean that's basically it it It's been a while, nine months at least. What were your thoughts, what were your feelings when you either said to your agent, hey, we're good, or when your agent said, hey, they agreed? Oh, yeah, it was a good feeling. We felt like it was, you know, we got what we wanted out of it, you know, a good long-term deal with a place that I'm comfortable in. So, yeah, we were very happy with it.

You know, we congratulate each other. And, yeah, we're excited to have the deal done. It was definitely a long road coming. But, yeah, we're happy. Yeah, so, look, I don't think that fans truly know what it's like to go from college, Superdraft, that contract, into, like, where you are now. So, like, is there a way to describe like this feeling of either

relief or celebration or excitement or anything that that you would kind of put into that blank yeah um definitely you know from from the college um draft you know you get the original deal you know it's it's tough you kind of every year at the end you're kind of wondering you know hopefully i get picked up again you know hopefully like what's going to happen but you know having you know long-term security picked up again, you know, hopefully like what's going to happen, but, you know, having, you know, long-term security is a good feeling and especially in a place where you're comfortable and, and you enjoy the, the style of play. And most importantly, you enjoy, you enjoy, you know,

playing with your teammates and the coaching staff. It's a, it's very comfortable and happy situation that I'm a part of. What was it like kind of, again, like I'm going to get into the whirlwind that the winter was, but like, what was it like kind of, again, like I'm going to get into the whirlwind that the winter was, but like what was it like kind of coming back? How quickly were you kind of reintegrated? How quickly did it feel like everything was normal again?

Yeah, coming back from Blackburn, I was honestly, I just wanted to get back to playing soccer again. And I was integrated in the group very quickly. The coaches were talking to me and and muzie and ricardo were asking like what i want to do and i just asked i just want to get back to playing soccer and so they made it as smooth as possible for me to get back into the team and i was trained the day or the day after i got back you know just with the guys with the guys again

and then luckily my teammates were amazing you know professionals about it and they just said hey i'm sorry that it didn't go through but let's um let's just focus on the season now and get back to playing soccer and and start winning some games so yeah they were amazing for me and the coaching staff was very supportive of the situation and and everyone just wanted to get back to playing soccer again and made a very smooth transition for me so again this winter and i promise i'm not trying to get back to playing soccer again and made a very smooth transition for me. So, again, this winter, and I promise I'm not trying to get you in trouble with this question, but just generally speaking, you know, the club brings in Luis Muriel. I know that that kind of happened in conjunction with your talks at Blackburn and everything else that was happening, talks for a new contract.

But you were aware that the club were at least in the market to potentially bring in another forward because this is normal professional soccer everybody is trying to compete and get better but like what was that like from your end in okay like i just won the starting job had a great year we're in contract talks um there's rumors that they might be trying to bring in another forward is that just professional soccer or that kind of hit you um i kind of had a feeling you know because i understand you know watching sports growing up you know i understood someone was gonna probably be coming in you know it's just how life is and that's just how professional soccer is teams want to compete and win you know win championships and and muriel's absolutely unbelievable striker and i'm glad i can learn from him every day of practice

and uh yeah i kind of knew we were in the market for someone I didn't know it was a great player like Marielle but yeah I had a feeling maybe we'd be looking to bring another forward in just to try and strengthen the uh the front line so yeah I mean it was in the back of my mind when maybe I was trying to make a move but you know in the end of the day I'm kind of happy how everything worked out and I'm glad I'm I'm back in Orlando and I'm here long term now. Yeah, dude, I'm going to because I haven't talked to you about the Blackburn stuff. So sorry for dredging up old stuff. And we're going to look to the future as well.

But just I guess in general, with like all these things and moving parts, every all the sliding doors, it is professional sports. Like, are you a guy that believes everything happens for a reason? Oh, 100%. I don't know how – like, I think, like, it's also, like, back in my time at Creighton, like, I redshirted, and then I, you know, wasn't starting my first – my next two years, my, you know, sophomore and junior year, and then I was like, you know, it sucks. It's a college I want to play at and i want to

trust the process and i knew it was gonna it was gonna work out in the end and luckily it did and and it got me to the position i'm in now and got me the year i had last year you know i was behind a striker and and i earned my way you know i was i tried to think about you know dps or whatnot just everyone's on the same team trying to earn a spot in the field. And that's kind of the mentality I've been going at. And yeah, the Blackburn thing, that didn't work out. But I honestly am glad that it didn't work out. In a system that I'm comfortable with and players and teammates and staff that i'm i i feel comfortable in and i'm

honestly beyond excited that i'm i'm here in orlando and i'm long term and i get to be a part of the process over the next two years and uh trying to make something happen to win a championship yeah so even just like going to that like how much did it mean to you that you just kind of seamlessly right back into the team right back into training right back into the group after everything that happened in england yeah i mean it felt it was honestly an unbelievable feeling just the level that they they trusted me and were able to just throw me back in the team knowing that i told them i was gonna like i kind of told them i was gonna put that stuff behind me and just you know move forward and and forget about that

and ask them to play soccer again. So it was an unbelievable feeling that they just, you know, trusted me and believed in me right away back when I came back. So, yeah, it was a wild event that happened. But, yeah, I mean, it was so good to see that my coaches and staff, you know, put me right back in the in the mix of things and I got back to playing soccer as soon as possible yeah so I'll just ask two questions at the same time about all the England and stuff so first of all you know what was that like in the moment

just going hour to hour minute to minute not knowing what's going to happen again it's off it's on it's off it's on and then you know you get moved hotels and everything you know falls apart so that's the first one I want to know, you get moved to hotels and everything falls apart. So that's the first one. I want to know what you were going through in the moment. And then with hindsight of the last seven or eight months or whatever's happened, do you feel any differently now or are there different feelings looking back on that? Yeah.

Initially in the moment, it was kind of I didn't know what to think. I was over there. I was with my agent. He was amazing through the entire process, stuck with me, stayed in the same hotel the entire time, made sure that he said he wasn't leaving my side until this was either gone through or hasn't gone through, but he wasn't leaving my side, which was amazing from him.

And it was, I mean, he said he's never seen anything like it. So I was kind of like, okay, this must be weird. And it was weird to he said he's never seen anything like it so I was kind of like okay this must be weird and it was it was weird to think about in the moment but given the last seven months I'm I'm kind of happy with how everything worked out you know I mean it's I feel like I'm in such a comfortable position with Orlando I mean I enjoy the team I mean like I've said before I enjoy the team I enjoy the city the fans are amazing and I just feel comfortable being here and I'm excited to you know get back to league play and and push to get to playoffs and and just get back to playing soccer again honestly how was your Olympics experience it It was unbelievable. The group of guys that we had with us was an unbelievable group of guys.

And they made the Olympics 10 times more enjoyable. I think I'm going to look back in 10 years and just think about the good times I spent at the hotel and the pre-camp with the guys. But yeah, the Olympics, it's something that you watch growing up and you watch growing up and you you like watching you say hey i want to play in that and you know you don't really think about it but then being in the situation i was and finally being able to play in it after all the camps was a

unbelievable experience and and it's something i'm never gonna forget walking out against france seeing 68 000 people however many it was, and then looking to the right and seeing my family was a moment I'm never going to forget. So, yeah, it was wild for sure. A quick one. Are you going to get the rings tattooed on you? I do have a few tattoos. And, yeah, that's been in the back of my mind.

I don't know where or when, but I do plan on getting the rings tattooed maybe by the back of my mind. I don't know where or when, but I do plan on getting the rings tattooed maybe by the end of this year. I don't know where that's in. So I don't know. In the short and midterm future, kind of what are your thoughts, what are your goals, what are your aspirations with Orlando City?

Yeah, kind of. It's not really any personal goals. Kind of just like what the team wants as a whole. I want to win a championship. I want to say that I lifted the trophy. And especially with Orlando City, it's going to mean a lot more being the club that's given me trust out of college and given me, you know, trust again with a new contract and wants me here is a club that I want to win a championship for.

So that's all I want to do is I just want to lift the trophy with Orlando City. Tom, you've been grinding. Not only did you do an interview with Duncan McGuire for us, but you are going to take over hosting duties for this show as you have set the law of the land from the top down, the 2024 second half of the season MLS watchability rankings for all clubs. Yeah, this was a great point. I thought to go back to this.

I first did this when I was still at the Athletic this season in like the end of May. We had some sample size from teams. And the whole premise of this, the whole bit is borrowed, inspired by Bill Simmons, Zach Lowe over at what was once Grantland, and then ESPN, then The Ringer, all of that. Where it's just, you know, what do you do when there's seven games on at 7.30? What do you watch? How do you prioritize it, right? How do you bounce around? And I'm going to start this by saying, like, it sounds like MLS pom-poms out, but, like, there's a lot of these teams you can really find reasons to be like,

all right, like, I can enjoy that. that all right i could talk my son to that now less now than in may when there was more unknowns and the standings hadn't taken shape quite like this but i will say that the league is deep every team has at least you know one quality one player or something or even if it's just the atmosphere or nice jerseys so for me that, that's where I go with. For this, I graded it on quality, which is, you know, the quality of your team. Identity, that's playing style. Off the field, that's anything from stadiums, atmosphere, to kits, to whatever else that comes, you know, the non-technical side of the aesthetics. Potential for spectacular moments, you know, individual brilliance free kicks you know

denny buonga picking up the ball on his own 18 and you kind of feel like it's about to be a goal fatal flaws because being bad sometimes is super watchable um and then involuntary humor that's you know new who that's peter vermi's gif ability on the sideline all of that so that's where the categories that we're grading on and we're gonna start at the bottom go up to the top okay go to guys can i just throw for everyone out there because you sent me a rubric so i did my own um but just so people know quality identity and the non-soccer hold more weight than the other three ones which i think makes sense but so when everyone's thinking about it being like yeah how did this happen how do you get here it's like the humor stuff and the fatal flaws matter but they matter i think less in

your rankings than the bigger stuff which is the stuff you're watching 87 percent of yeah it'd be silly um if some of these teams that um kind of graded very highly in humor like san jose is one of them like that doesn't make them more watchable than columbus like you can't you can't have to wait it like that so without further ado we'll go with the bottom five um i think that the the bottom six is i'll group that as a six actually just because i think that these are super interchangeable 29 sporting kansas city 28 chicago fire 27 national sc 26 atlanta united 25 cf montreal and 24 fc dallas goss initial thoughts from the bottom six um i i'm in the ballpark with most of those atlanta was a tough one for me because elmada rated so high on a lot of these things and i don't know what maranchuk is so on the like special moment stuff and the can't look

away stuff and and then a little bit of the fatal fatal flaw stuff they were pretty high but they came super low on like overall quality identity um and they were high on off the field stuff that's where a lot of these like quote unquote the bad teams that's for me was a large part of the differentiator was like is it a fun atmosphere to watch a game in am i enjoying it if i tune in from afar um so i was in the space with a lot of those i didn't have skc as well i had chicago nashville and montreal as my bottom three um the fatal flaw stuff with chicago hasn't come close enough to be like i want to turn this team on and they are pretty rough and then nashville are rough in a way in which there's no fatal flaw and

so where their lack of success and like the lack of moments from honey which was your one shining thing where they were like high on the special moments up until more recently they are a struggle for me right now yeah i'm with you there um I kind of bumped them ahead of Chicago and Kansas City because they have a better chance to at least make the playoffs right. Like you know you're tuning into a more competitive, more meaningful game. Yeah. And I was like, can I really put Hany Mooks on? Even in the bottom three, it feels weird.

But like you said, he has not been the same guy this season or honestly since the Leafs' cup break last year. I will give them the intrigue factor because bj collins taking over i'm very again he hasn't coached in mls game for the club yet very curious to see what happens so my good pal jeff reuter has you know metrics stylistically for teams and i'm going to read off some of nashville's and like they don't 100 percent like track because of a coaching change but like the players are all the same and i don't know how much different bj is going to get this team playing here are some of the numbers passes

per defensive action that just means how often you're getting into challenges and duels 27th in mls they are 26 in direct attacks 28th and shots and 28th in field tilt so that's bottom three in i i think categories that that lead to fun energetic open game right like so they like if they didn't make a coaching change i think they would have been bottom from it even though that like again i don't i just don't particularly enjoy kansas city they've had more goals than like chicago national and atlanta have had in these games but there's just there's just nothing there for me with kansas city at the moment. Yeah, Kansas City are a tough one. I got stuck with some of their, like, there is some quality on the field.

Eric Tommie is good at soccer. Alan Polito is good at soccer. Willie Agata is a finisher. Daniel Shallowy has been consistent. But they don't put it together at all. And their fatal flaws are not as fun as they used to be yeah and and it used to be fun to be like i know skc is going to give up a goal in a non-transition moment that they turn into a transition moment and there's gonna be two defenders sliding nowhere

close to the ball and it's just gonna be like pure disarray that's kind of gone away a bit more that was more fun when they were decent it's less fun now. And same thing with the Peter Vermees GIF ability. Still elite, but that's more fun when you're in third place in the West and not towards the bottom. Before we move on to the next one, haven't talked much about Dallas. For me, again, I keep talking about, I'm still very intrigued to see Moussa, Ferreira, and Velasco in attack,

but injuries have rendered that 0% so far this year, and I don't know how much that is going to happen by the end of the year, and what is Velasco going to look like in his first minutes back from the torn ACL from last year. So I think that that's more hopeful than anything else, but I think Dallas is a team that can jump next year. Yeah, Dallas for me, in this grouping of six that you did, they finished highest on quality because of Moussa and Ferreira

and some of the other pieces even as well. But then they finished super low on pretty much everything else. Yeah. Moving on. 23, Vancouver Whitecaps, 22, Austin FC, 21, New England Revolution, and 20, Toronto FC. So there's a mix of, like, Vancouver's a good team, right? Like just starting there.

Like these three teams, they are better than the other three in this category. There's just nothing new with them. And I don't necessarily love their style. And again, there's just kind of zero intrigue for me. Austin FC, I want to say they are still bottom they are bottom three in mls in expected goal difference like still right like it it's i'm curious to see what's going to happen you know with a bigger sample size of lucian focari and a couple of these other moves um they are at negative 17.7 expected goal difference. That New England Revolution is the worst in the league at 20.

And Montreal is third worst at negative 11.8. It's crazy. Austin I had a little trouble with because their off-field stuff is good. Even as bad as they are, Q2 is fun. The fans are fun. The supporters are good. There's a bunch of silly stuff going on. They wear cool stuff.

They put out good gear. Like, they have a lot of points off the field right now. But they are boring to watch. They are boring to watch for both teams. They don't, again, the fatal flaw stuff. Like, they don't give up crazy goals. They just give up a lot of goals. And it's, like like not super entertaining to

watch bukari as a singular player from what we've seen so far has the potential to jump them like 10 spots already this year if he does the things he's flashed so far and he becomes like uh yeah you gotta tune in you don't even say the team name like you're like you yeah i want to watch bukari on saturday like what you're againstc yeah i didn't mean to cut you off i was just adding no you're good um i actually finished way different on these teams than you did i i think that it ended up being the off-field stuff so like in this gap i have nyc and red bulls down here watching ny NYCFC play anywhere. Well, because I probably overvalued.

So, like, on the non-soccer stuff, I went super low on both of them. Because the atmospheres are bad. I mean, you don't know where you're going to watch NYC play. So, like, all of that stuff is, like, pretty negative. The soccer is in a totally different conversation but we're doing watchability rankings we're not doing power rankings you said that to me i did say that to you and for red bulls if forsberg's not healthy yes like the special moments that type of stuff i didn't know where you find that for this team no i totally agree and like so

on mine they're higher up because i'm looking at them as maybe it's an nycfc road game and red bulls with emil forza because i totally agree like the red bulls drops pretty heavily if you tell me that that he's still injured or if he's out you know for even longer term than he is um that's kind of like like new england it still feels a little odd to have a team led by carlos at 21. Yeah. But, like, this is a vast improvement from where I had them in May. And this team has been better. Like, Luca Langone, I'm very, very curious to see how he does. I'm very excited at Dylan Barrero being, you know,

back on the team for whatever, a couple months now, right? Like, this attack has the makings of being super fun again. And that's why New England got here. Toronto, I went back and forth because there's always a lot of goals in our games. But, like, D.C. United are a couple spots ahead. And it's kind of the same thing that I mirror with them of, like, yeah. And D.C. gets it because I love the Christian Pintecchi aerial ability. And that's committee of one has ruled on that.

I don't care. But, like, it's the same thing of, like, oh, cool. They played another game where they lost 4-1 or 4-2 or whatever. And, like, when it happens every time and it's super predictable and it's super like uh straightforward like it kind of loses its luster a little bit like when the soccer isn't good around it when it's just i think your point with austin it's like yeah they give up a lot of goals it's not like super fun stuff right like it's not super chaotic right like so as uh as technical as that sounds that's where i landed on a couple of those teams. So I landed New England in the same area for the same reason.

Like their special moment ability was at the highest because it was with Chunkalai last year. It is with Heal anytime he's on the field. They're really high. The other off-field stuff they're low on. And like overall identity they're low on. But I still ended up in that same sphere as you or same area as you because of that i had toronto at the bottom of this group and vancouver at the top so i basically swapped those two teams

in that um obviously toronto have those two players and like it's exciting when some of the young guys do stuff whenever they play if they ever play and whatever else happens like they don't have a super clear identity that's like really fun to watch and the atmosphere is good but i would say when the team's playing the way they are playing right now which is like the success they're having the atmospheres they built i think a vancouver home game from afar is more entertaining the the crowd is better the atmosphere is better than what toronto has been for most of this year so i would still from home want to watch that game counterpoint we're talking about identity and you're not going to talk about federico bernadeschi's hair give me a break david goss that's why they're ahead of those teams just for that because you can see that

you don't even need to do hair cut though all which hair the braids the the bleach blonde longer hair all of it his pre-game fits long live frederick bernadeschi did not think that this is that he was going to become a neutral favorite in this league after where he was last year. So that's excellent. Well, he was a favorite to whatever communities for a long time. I don't know if you saw this. There's a story out there about some factory in China

where there are people who manually test vapes, and there's a guy who says he can test 7,000 to 10,000 a day and then goes home and smokes. What? That guy probably has a Bernadette C jersey. there's a guy who says he can test seven to ten thousand a day and then goes home and smokes what that guy probably has a bernadette cj's i'm just saying and that's part of the identity i love it that is part of the identity uh next group here uh 19 through 60 19 saddle sounders 18 orlando city 17 dc united 16 st louis city i know that st louis are far below the playoff line but i just really love everything that they did in the summer transfer window um maybe it's still being a little too

kind just because the games aren't gonna have a ton of meaning unless that they come out they rip off like a three-game winning streak when they come back they're at 23 points that is 10 below minnesota united with nine games left on the playoff line like that's really steep so there probably aren't going to be a ton of games of meaning but like hardell toy shirt simon betcher janice horn like uh and then henry kessler i think that's an excellent transfer window and maybe it's the intrigue here that really has me leading them up to the top of this group you know ahead of you know orlando is a better team than it right um? Um, DC United has the singular aerial ability of Christian Bentacchi that I love so much.

And Seattle Sounders are a better team than the rest of these, right? Like, but St. Louis has more intrigue. I kind of like their style better than, than Seattle's, even with prime time,

Paul Rothrock, um, that helped them a lot because they were, you know, much lower in, in my May rankings. Uh, I have Seattle or sorry,

Seattle. I have St. Louis 11. Okay. Um, so I'm sorry, Seattle. I have St. Louis 11th. Okay. So I'm in the same convo as you. One, they rank high on identity, whether it's an identity you really love watching or not. Fine.

But they're also really high on the fatal flaw humor stuff, and they're really high on the atmosphere. Because, like, they give up ridiculous goals, and they kind of, a columbus point had been like playing sort of suicidal at times and like ridiculous um and they have individual mistakes in there they didn't have any special moments from their own players and all the guys you just named seem like they're capable of them like the game against club america lovin and hardell and

and toy shirt when he was healthy like all the things they did were things that no one has done this entire year for that team so like their potential there is really really high but you know you're getting a good atmosphere uh you know you're getting like sort of a hard fought game all that type of stuff so i finished with them pretty high in this whole conversation otherwise i i pretty much had all the teams in the same spot as you except dc i have dc like really low that's like that's fair as someone who wins every aerial ball and like loves aerial ability it's not enough for me to be like yeah i want to tune in to watch head proper football mate are you kidding me nobody plays like this

that that that's also to the uniqueness of how they play. Nobody plays like this at MLS. I love it. I can't quit it. I can't explain it. I can't quit it. It is. It's Central New Jersey to a T.

It's also unfair to only talk about Ben Teke that way because, like, his feet are phenomenal. Yeah, no, absolutely. He's an elite ball striker. He's a great soccer player. When you tune in, you want to watch him. You want to watch him do his thing. Kuti Pietro's got a little juice, but not a lot of other guys do in this group.

And you've lost the, like, oh, Tyler Miller will come 55 yards off his line and, like, try and play a 1-2 at midfield and get chipped. So I've lost a lot of that, and the vibes there are low. So I had them, like, completely out of this conversation i had dc 24th in mind um although i did end up by the way in a few stretches with a lot of teams tied yes i have two stretches i have from 12 from 12 to 17 and from 19 to 24 they were all tied oh my god yeah so i i would not like arbitrary but like i would when i was doing mine like again there's a lot of them that are either and like like i would break the tiebreaker like if it was be like all right like committee of one has ruled on this

the committee of one has ruled on the committee of one but like for instance from uh 14 to 23 from my uh mid-season, my May rankings, they're separated by two and a half points. So I think that the jumble in this area, it is obviously super subjective. These are all personal for anybody watching it. It's what you care about in when you're like, but like, I think that there are a lot of teams that are super similar. It's like the same way that parity in the quality of these teams,

like the parity in this. It's like you could talk yourself into, you know, Vancouver over, again, what I have, Charlotte 16th, right? Like they're technically, or St. Louis 16th, they're like whatever, eight or nine spots away from each other. But just it's so close in the actual rankings. Really quickly to close the loop on the Pataki Ariels one. First place in Ariels won this season, Christian Patake 237 second place is teammate lucas bartlett

84 237 84 237 is more three times yeah three times as much that's more than five teams all by himself and he's missed a couple also lucas bartlett's in training being like i'm pretty good in the air but i would love to not have to go up against penteke in any of these changes maybe that's why he's gotten so good because he's got a battle iron sharpens iron right yeah for sure uh where is have you said minnesota yet i have not that's that's a good transition to the next to the next yeah so like they have a lot of intrigue here so so I'll give it away. And this category, 15, 14, 13, 12. 15, Charlotte. 14, Minnesota.

13, Philly. 12, San Jose. San Jose is the worst team in Major League Soccer by points. I find myself gravitating towards their games. Like, they are the epitome. That's your MLS after dark. It's perfect. Like, even, like, so I was saying this earlier in the season,

and I was like, well, if they don't get anywhere near the playoff line, then, like, they're going to have to drop because, like, yeah, it's fun, but it's like if there's no meetings, there's no stakes. I thought they were going to drop so much further in my rankings here, but I was, like, just anecdotally find myself picking if it's, like, Vancouver versus Seattle or San Jose versus Austin. I'm watching San Jose-Austin. It's just like, so I'm like, all all right like they they should be carrying this for me

that is a lot of juice i had san jose 25th what are you up against hernan lopez i have nothing against hernan lopez hernan lopez legitimately really fun and i think i said i mean i did the whole bit after they crushed nicoxa was it yes where i was like this is the best team in the world they're gonna play through everyone then they went and lost lafc i think for one in the next game if they play that way if they open up and play and like it's like espinoza and lopez linking up and abobisi scoring goals then yeah i don't care if they win but what happened the first half of the year i was not sold on i was not intrigued by and i was not sold on i was not intrigued by and

i was not rushing to tune in definitely bad definitely bad and there is no you don't have to worry about not entertainingly bad because it was dry and it was like 61 goals 61 yeah yeah that part's that part can be a little bit more entertaining i think that's fair yeah but it's like if they concede four goals at home in front of no one is that what i'm like getting juiced that's fair that's fair that's fair um yeah san jose so got it so what was give me the rest of this group again uh 15 charlotte 14 minnesota 13 philly 12 san jose so you're with minnesota i get it the only thing is i haven't seen the like wow factor on any of these players because i haven't seen them yet yeah this could very quickly i was a

yeah i was a little bit hesitant on the they haven't had a super clear identity they haven't really like imposed themselves on games they haven't caused games to be in a certain style that's entertaining off field they're like super high jerseys colors stadium atmosphere fans all that stuff they are one of the best and so that pushed them up in my rankings but like yeah if we turn on and kelvin yaboa is like doing things and like you've already got robin ludd who i love and some other piece in this team that i really like and tanny's like still scoring goals then i could be sold on that but they need one of the dps the new signings to be like uh oh this player is a must watch or they need someone heard on lopez level in that in terms of uh watchability uh and understanding charlotte i had in a similar

space as you i had them a little bit higher okay uh but i think bl is gonna count a lot of that the problem with charlotte is like in this convo one of their great assets is their app their crowd and their atmosphere is fantastic but the stadium is a tough watch on tv yeah so you're not there i didn't know how to rank that and i kind of got stuck in their off-field convo i will say light blue is my favorite color so that made up the ground on on some of that for me and sermoni was sitting on the couch behind you while you did this. Exactly. Like, you can't replicate that anywhere across the league.

And while, like, super early, like, Liela Bada and Patrick Ajama and Kervin Vargas, like, as the season went on, they went from, like, all right, I was trying to do the Simone Biles thing, and I hit my own table. They're going to... I think that there's like, at the beginning of the season, it's like, all right, this is very clearly a solid team. I don't know how great or how very good they're going to be. And they slowly grew in the attacking phase of the game.

So while they're still very good defensively and really frustrates opponents, which doesn't usually lend well in a conversation like this, the individual quality of getting the L bottom, I'm super convinced by Ajiman Vargas and let's see what Pepiel does let's see what uh uh Jamie Patterson does let's see how this attack comes together with Dean Smith getting some pieces Carol Swierczki born born again back back in Charlotte like the team is much better like now and again with all these pieces back in here

um I think that you know there there's definitely an argument for them moving up even with how good they are defensively yeah they are a team that over the last two years when they've been out of playoff contention or struggling for playoff contention i have watched them a disproportionate amount um so if there's like quality there i will be tuning in because i've already been watching over the last few. So, okay, continue. No, Philadelphia, I know we talked about that earlier in the show, so we don't have to go too long.

Again, like they're bringing in a couple new pieces. Ty Baribo getting dusted off the bench and looking a really, really good player. I think it's been fun. I think Sam Mendenhren's going to help. I think he's perfect for this play style as long as he's playing more. So, yeah, like I do like Philly, but I could very easily hear an argument of it's the same thing that we've watched for the last year. So there's nothing new. There's nothing fresh. And we've seen what the ceiling is. And this is a worse version of what they have been in 2022 and 2023.

Right. So I can very easily hear that, but just I do like a – like I'd rather transition pressing style than, you know, somebody holding possession without, you know, going forward. The scary thing about Philadelphia not making the playoffs or being low is Subaru Park in fall and winter when it's like cold and bouncing is one of my favorite MLS things. And I don't know that we're going to get there this year, which is really tough you know thank god for the

first round best of three oh I thought you were going to say the Leagues Cup third place match that's what I thought you were about to say I hope it's bouncing I was going to text you yesterday when I realized the schedule and be like we're going if they had hosted the final we'd be going I think so I think so too

and you low key high key might go to the third place i'll be watching for the bridge behind the stadium um no so yeah like again i i'm just still a sucker for the way that they play and again the atmosphere the kids all that stuff um but like i wouldn't put up a big disagreement if you're like yeah i'm over watching philly i know what i'm getting from them you know you could go a month without watching them and But, like, I wouldn't put up a big disagreement if you're like, yeah, I'm over watching Philly. I know what I'm getting from them. You know, you could go a month without watching them and tune back in and be like, oh, I feel like I've watched everything the last six weeks.

I do not feel that way. I still have them top ten. All right, cool. Okay. I'm just wrong with a couple of these assumptions here. Yeah, you are. Just keep me on my toes, David. You know what assumptions do.

They make – Yeah, that's what you and me. 11 and 10 we're gonna go red bulls nycfc red bulls 11 nycfc 10 i thought for right now it's like the playing style of nycfc gives in the edge particularly with maxi morales and the team um and again as we kind of talked about a little bit before red bulls with emil forsberg is 11th for me red bulls without is like 25th it's it's that big of a difference for me with these two teams yeah I mean I already I made my point on those um I will tune in to

watch both of them so like that was me sort of putting this all in standings um and if NYCFC continues the rest of the year to play the way they have played over the last six weeks then they're going to be a must watch every weekend. Agreed. Whether it's at Red Bull Arena, Citi Field, or at Yankee Stadium. I believe they just announced that they're playing their last two home games at Red Bull Arena of the season. Awesome. Yeah, they should be talked further for that.

Let me throw this in there. This is like a completely random aside. I believe NYCFC2 has announced that they're going to play at Icon Stadium, which is on Randall's Island. It is one of the coolest locations in New York. It is like a famous track and field stadium that sits on Randall's Island and faces into Manhattan. It's sort of like at 100, 110th. So it looks into a weird area, but looks down the river. And like there's only one stand. and so that looks into the river.

I had always said I wish that more teams played there, whether it was when Gotham was playing at Rutgers or whatever. I think there's restrictions on the field and whatever that NYC is working on. But boom, it's much less MLS Next Pro right there. And where's NYC FC2 ranking your MLS Next Pro? Yeah, right. They just shot up the standings. Nine.

So before you're getting into top nine now, I think that the top eight unassailable in terms of elite, you could kind of quibble with some of the rankings. I think this ninth place team for me is, so it's Houston Dynamo. I think if Ezekiel Ponce has a good run over this month, then I think that you call this a top nine, and you say the top nine is elite, and you can kind of move things around.

So the Houston Dynamo are nine for me. Colorado Rapids is number eight. I'll pair these two teams for this because I think that they're both teams are extraordinarily fun. There is a difference of, obviously, play styles for both of these teams. They don't have the same quality

as the majority of the top seven. They, you know, varying degrees of star power, like houston star power sector rare which i love to watch but it's a little bit different than say you know a number 10 or a centerfold or a winger right like so colorado's best player is george mihailovich or hoffman like their their team is a star kind of thing for both of these teams. And the play styles are very different, but I love both play styles. So, I had Houston 8. I had Colorado 13. What? Yeah.

I mean, I assume that... I assume. I can look through my own numbers. I think their non-soccer fell pretty low. Really? There's like... Yeah. I guess their humor won. I probably should have bumped up

because like you got georgie yelling you know up the fucking pits and like there's vibes there which i probably dropped a little too low but like in general when they're good they they fill the building a little bit and it bounces a bit it's a tough place to watch a game from afar and yeah and there's a lot of like weather delay stuff where you're like oh the rapids are still on it's like 12 45 on the east coast this game started four hours ago so they i struggled with them a little bit but i would be sold in like in leagues cup they were must watch and if they maintain that level like you said the team is the star stuff but like cole bassett's really fun hafa navarro super fun to watch when he's on the ball.

Georgie is obviously pretty fun to watch. They do have a little bit of humor in the fatal flaw, or they do have a little bit of a fatal flaw thing. And like the goals they give up. Zach Steffen has like a vibe right now that he's got going on where he's like, I'm not going to look too engaged. And then I'm just going to like make saves from like a standing position, especially that LAFC

game there were moments in that game where he's like what are we doing especially the PK thing like the whole PK experience he's looking at the ref being like you're an idiot and like there's no chance this man ends up being a PK um so I had them a little bit lower and for me Houston's like they're tough off-field stuff but you're watching Ache Ache play in Houston. It's flowing. It's fun. It's like beautiful soccer. And if Ponce is good, then they are like etched in stone there.

Yeah. All right. So then I think that you'd revise that to the top seven is unassailable. Yeah. And I feel pretty safe that we have the same teams in the top seven. We'll see if the order is the same. Number seven. Let's do this order. Number seven, LAFC. Number six, Real Salt Lake. Number five, LA Galaxy. in the top seven we'll see if if the order is the same number seven this order number seven lafc

number six real salt lake number five la galaxy we do not have the same order mine was rsl7 lafc6 and the portland timbers uh as number where am i at five yeah um so yeah so that means that you have the galaxy so let's start with the galaxy i have them at five i struggled really for three through seven um but like the galaxy i think i went back and forth with with putting them you know third fourth or fifth um again they have marco royce coming in i love their playing style as well they have a ton of individual talent i i think that it part of it comes down to is i don't love watching the game at dignity health sports park and like with the margins of these teams at

the top again i'll say it again the top seven on a sale but all these teams i think are elite and watchability but so the margins are pretty thin and that probably caused some unwind i uh i think that plays bumps when they're good uh i think they get good crowds in there pretty consistently. They haven't been good in a few years. They are, the Galaxy for me ended up super high because you've got, they are like one of the teams in here where they are, let me see, I had them on a scale of five. I had them at four for special moments because of Peck and Painstil and Ricky.

But I had them four for fatal flaws and three for humor on that. Because, like, they will step on the rake and hit themselves in the face 10 seconds after scoring the best goal of the night. And Peck's, like, taking everyone on and all of that. So that elevated them for me, in whichfc are happy to play a boring game that they win one zero and so lafc dropped in that with jerud and with lewis o'brien they may not be that team anymore but for where they stand on august 22nd they are less entertaining consistently than these other teams rsl by the way i put them at a five out of five on the special moment one

because i was like i can't when i when if you were to ask me like what are the top 10 moments of this season i feel like five of them are rsl moments midfield goals like all this stuff obviously andres gomez like has been lost and we all yes we all mourned together for that one but so that is tough but rsl are like super fun and i think that place is so fun oh my god when they're good oh my god yeah that stadium bounces it jumps you get snow games sometimes then you get like great weather with the mountains in the background like it's a whole fun thing no it's beautiful yeah i completely agree and that's why i have rsl ahead of lafc um lafc like their style from last year um again they have been more expansive for the most part this year um again they they don't have any business being such a fun watch just in terms

of their style again it comes down to it like danny bonga yeah it comes down to bonga yeah and like it will come down to drew as well i think you're gonna be super aesthetic the midfield right like so but if they want to play boring we know that they're capable of it like i don't think we also like are capable of playing boring like i don't think yeah yeah that's fair and the involuntary humor side for rsl is just you know every three weeks you get an a plus quote from pablo mascherini that makes rounds on twitter and like that has to count for something oh there's a whole entertaining club vibe with them like everything about it it can be humorous like when he did the interview with Andrew Wiebe on Extra Time and he like Wiebe was like what are you reading and he's like well

I'm actually reading three books right now and I was like of course Pablo Maserini is reading three books right now and two of them are like you know coaching philosophies or like philosophical life debates and I was like bro if you asked me how many books is he reading and what is he reading i think i could have came close so it was perfect made me happy you think him and non-sick would be friends or you think that's like they're too different oh that's a good question like you think non-sick walks into room is like impossible is a point of view and you think pablo likes that or pablo actually the quote from the book is this if they were college friends how many nights would they be up until 3 30 in the morning just talking philosophy like that yeah just like debating this stuff yeah like 100 yeah i i think now that we need

to play that out whoa do we just say the deepest thing ever did we just solve that those are the best days uh the one so the so we had la la different but i have portland five yes so you you went higher i went cincy four portland three and so you talk about the galaxy stepping on a rake and hitting himself in the face portland hits that plus two on that right one hundred vander can matt like again when you get up to these like all of these you need to have a superstar at this stage right you have to be like i'm tuning in for this player important to have that with a vander um and i really like jonathan rodriguez i think that attack makes a ton of sense diego chara trying to watch every minute i can he has to retire at

some point but you know maybe he'll be like tom brady don't go until he's 45 i don't know that home atmosphere i think it is is wonderful the kids all that stuff phil neville on the sideline i think gives them a couple couple extra bonus points in the humor everything else like i i like the play style is really really good and i think the quality is solid and where they are deficient is what makes them watchable it's they can't do anything like transition defending defending in general right like that's why i've kind of elevated portland up the third in this list and then cincinnati fourth i was going back and forth with cincinnati galaxy and i was like lucio costa man and like tql stadium but like

more so going back to like lucio costa and like couldn't have him lower than four uh yeah i think portland i got dropped because of identity yeah where's like, they don't really have this. It's like, it's talent, which I had quality high. It's individual talent. Not that they don't link up and connect, but it's not like Columbus where it's like flowing or Houston and all of that. Fatal flaw, humor, special moments. They are high on all of that. Off field stuff, the atmosphere.

They are elite as well. I think they are the big riser, like, for both of us. If you go and look at the standings versus these, and these are not power rankings, they're the one where it's like they are disproportionately super high. Yeah, no, absolutely. Like, the two teams for me, like Portland, and obviously super high, and San Jose being above mid-table for me in this

when they're dead last, and MLS, like, those are the two. Like, I had Portland seventh when i did this in may and like i was really bullish on them because like that was when they were still coming out of their like winless run when it was like all right well if they suck then that puts a limit on them right like you can only do so much if you're gonna lose so like you have to be good to be at this end right some semblance of good whether it's very good or at least passable. And it was, like, pretty clear in, like, the month after. I was like, oh, no.

Like, I find myself clicking to a point in the game all the time. Like, they should have been higher. And I think they've sustained that. That's why I pushed them up to three. If they hadn't signed Jonathan Rodriguez, I don't know that I would have gotten there. I agree. Totally agree. Like, I think pre-Rodriguez, Evander is worth the watch. He's worth the money.

Santi Moreno is fun, but like that would have been it and the fatal flaw stuff. But with Rodriguez, there's so much elite talent. I think Evander came off hurt in league's cup. So like that's something to watch out for because he would be a massive loss going forward for that team. Yeah.

So that's right. Land. I'm with Portland. Like, and I would even add as well. I think if Joseph Mora isn't scoring goals, I think that they could have figured it out with Antony being a starter all the time or whatever other combination in the attack.

Without the goals for both of those players, both Rodriguez and Mora, they would be much lower because I don't think they'd be below the playoff line without those goals. Yeah, maybe. Into the top two, David Goss, who is yours one and two? Because I'm sure that we have the same two teams. I know that we have the same two teams, but who do you have first? Yeah, I'll go one first, and I'll say this is the only team

that landed on a perfect score for me. So that is Humor, Fatal Flaws, capable of special moments, non-soccer atmosphere, identity, and quality. And that is the Columbus crew. Wow. That's I had the crew first as well. Um, I had Miami in may not enough messy. I'm like, they're still really fun without them. And that's why I think that they can sustain being up here, but it just hasn't been enough messy.

And that is the difference between these two teams. Like even when I was writing this in may, I was, like if they didn't have messy like i don't like i'd probably put columbus first just because of how beautiful the game it is and the fact that while they dictate the game while they strangle teams while they overwhelm teams you can still get at them in moments and you can still like they're gonna die beautifully if they're gonna die right like so i i was saying that then but i was like dude like leno messi man but like he just isn't playing enough right now and he's currently injured and it's and it's not like for lack of wanting or lack of trying and like when he's on the field my god that team is insane to watch but like he just hasn't been available

enough for me to consciously put them one ahead of columbus crew given what columbus crew are doing right now and it might be for mi, like an unfair one of like, well, we know you can be here. So the fact that you're slightly below that, cause you don't have your player that you signed, who's the best player in the world. Like that's a D market or denotion there.

I don't know what word I'm trying to do. Deduction is probably the word I was trying to find there in all of that. And like, maybe that's unfair. I had them slightly below Columbus and identity because like, while they do all the things, it comes down to me more of like pure talent And like, maybe that's unfair. I had them slightly below Columbus in identity. Yeah. Because like, while they do all the things, it comes down to me more of like pure talent than like all this insane,

which I, as someone who likes soccer, like I like to watch teams that are playing this pure, insane, ridiculous thing. And I had them lower on humor because like Miami doesn't give up a goal 14 seconds into a game and everyone's laughing on their team. And like the first cut is to their coach, like being like this is what we do this is ridiculous isn't

this ridiculous so they are a little less on that one than columbus for me and uh but like in terms of quality and atmosphere and all that stuff they're super super high as well you can't really go wrong no with these two teams you also by this weekend, we have, so your third team was Cincinnati? Fourth. Or fourth. So you have two versus four this weekend. Miami hosts Cincinnati. And that one's for a shot at, not for a shot, but that one's huge for Supporter Shield.

If Cincinnati wins, they would pull to within two points on equal games played. It would also help Columbus out a ton, which is a funny thing to say. It would help LAFC out as well, like Galaxy. Everyone gets a favor. If Miami can knock off Cincinnati at home this weekend, it might be over already. Yes, that's, yeah. So, again, I'm always careful to, like, call things over. But, like, dabbling with, like, this isn't a must win per se for cincy

but it's a must result i think in the can't lose of the of the shield rankings again particularly with messy is still out messy is out yeah you like they they have to drop like if they're not going to drop points now when are they going to drop points and we were saying that during the summer and i don't know like we were we excited about the potentially six team race for the shield like at some point miami have to drop points when they're short-handed and even if it's just short-handed by the one player because he's not only is this that so not only after this game miami plays at columbus so that's the only other shield race team they play not only that in looking at this they only play one solid playoff team besides columbus after this they play here comes your wfn read off at chicago philadelphia at atlanta at nycfc charlotte sorry i forgot about charlotte at columbus at toronto new england so nycfc charlotte and at columbus those are their

three toughest games left in the like pantheon of tough games those are not very high so if you are anyone who wants to be in this shield race cincinnati not only do they need result they probably do need to win this game um or i guess it doesn't matter if you're a different team. If you're not Cincinnati, it doesn't matter for you as much whether they win or not as long as Miami drops the points. For Cincy, this is must-win. Yeah. Nico Jokini is expected to be able to play a role this weekend. Lucho Costa is back in full-team training, all that.

So, like, things are shaping up for Cincy. Cincy came into the League's cup break limping like they lost three in a row like i was crowning since he has like i have them as favorite for shields right now and then they home to charlotte lost home to chicago lost that's the one that really hurts and at new york red bulls lose three one right like that that's gonna be the stretch that costs them if they don't win the shield but again if they win this weekend they could more or less put themselves in the driver's seats like maybe not in the literal sense but like nobody's gonna win their last eight games in a row which doesn't happen in major league soccer so more or less you

can put yourself in the driver's seat with a winner um i would since he has a much tougher run in after this they still play columbus they go to minnesota they play lafc as well they finish the year at philly after playing Orlando and obviously we just saw what Philly did to them in League's Cup so it's a tough run for them they are a better team right now than they were going into League's Cup um as we've talked about the center back edition what Joe Aquini can bring them anything so that's the must watch game of Saturday like off hands down there's some other interesting ones um but that is the must watch game of saturday oh absolutely um like off hands down there's some other interesting ones um but that is the must watch game and they are both top five in our watchability i wonder if we

pulled every weekend and like found the you know combined standings like matchups if they would always end up being like oh this is the must watch game of the weekend but for week one it is tom the committee of one we bow at you we thank you for gracing us with your presence this uh this committee can now dissolve until we need it again next year to begin things pre-season uh but that is our first ever live soccer wise reading the watchability rankings making history as we do every single week we'll be back next week of course uh we will have a huge show with jordan angeli coming up to talk nwsl because a new cba um abolishing the draft both for college i believe and maybe for expansion as well i'm not sure

if that said that so i shouldn't have probably gone there immediately um but opening up free agency changing the way trades are made all these things plus nwcl returns this weekend some phenomenal matchups in there as well you've got two verse three in the league kansas city against washington on sunday you've got a couple gold medalists and sophia smith in portland going up against the gotham uh big five on saturday as well we've got inter miami cincinnati on saturday we've got the leagueMiami Cincinnati on Saturday. We've got the Leagues Cup Final on Sunday. If you are not already part of the Discord, get in there so that you can hang out and talk with us all about these games as they go on. And thank you once again to Duncan

McGuire for the interview. Thank you to all of you out there watching live. Thank you to all of you listening, and we'll talk to you again very, very soon.