SoccerWise - MLS Edition: San Diego FC New Manager w/Bobby Warshaw of Bloom Sports

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

The transfer window might be closed, but The Ice Cream Shop isn't! On this episode, Tom Bogert will serve up some breaking news from MLS's newest Southern California club, San Diego FC. Afterwards Bobby Warshaw of Bloom Sports joins the show to explain how a club like San Diego lands on a candidate. We also have US Open Cup and Canadian Championship semifinal previews, including the probability of Indy Eleven making history! After the Columbus Crew's dramatic win on Sunday night, Tom & Gass will also put a bow on the 2024 edition of the Leagues Cup. You can catch Soccerwise live on YouTube, Twitch and Twitter at 2pm ET every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday! 6:01 Leagues Cup Final Reactions 23:45 News SD FC Hiring Mikey Varas 33:01 “Make It Make Sense” Bobby Warshaw Interview Of MLS Head Coach Hiring Process 58:59 USOC Semifinal Preview SKC v Indy Eleven 1:07:14 Preview SEA v LAFC 1:12:35 Canadian Championship Semifinal PreviewSoccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

All right, everybody, welcome back to SoccerWise. We are here for another big week of coverage. We've got multiple competitions to cover in over the course of these next few days. We've got as well some big trophies that have already been won for a certain Columbus crew team. And of course, Tom takes no breaks. Breaking news as he scoops San Diego FC's new manager for their expansion year, who we believe will be Mikey Varas. And we will dig into that quite a lot coming up, including with a special guest. Tom, I'm feeling good.

I just told you I walked over 17 miles yesterday. Then I went and played my playoff co-ed game. We won to go to the semifinals in a shootout in which myself and my wife who both walked were the only two to miss our shots yeah that is a championship performance this is why i said this is irresponsible and this falls so far out of the david goss character the fact that pre-game pre a playoff game no less you tired your legs out by walking for 17 miles i cannot believe this and i cannot believe that you decided to do that david what the hell do you not subscribe to the theory that because i'm always tired i could not have

gotten worse no i don't because that's the theory i subscribe to you know it's like when when people say that the earth is flat it's like all right that's a theory that's cool that doesn't doesn't mean it's right it means it's insane you so you think that just because you you reach a level of tiredness you can't get any more tired what i would say is what about before you reach that level of tiredness my point is i've been dragging for weeks on the field so i figured why not try something new why not elaborate rational electric shock in there i don't like yeah i don't like the message it sends to the other players on the team either. I wasn't prepared to be labeled as the flat earther in this conversation on this show.

So I'm a little bit rattled right now. Got you on your back foot. Yeah, because that's what happens when you're tired. Then you can't think and it goes down to muscle memory and it's too slow. My hands dropped and you caught me with the right hook, which I wasn't ready to block for. But it was the true new york day i walked from 215th street all the way through manhattan across the brooklyn bridge to pier five to play in front of the city and of course lightning thunder and rain hit about seven minutes before my game started i got soaked through but all that matters is the victory it's true of course and uh and we move on

to the semi-finals tom how's your rec league going? We haven't done a rec league review in a while. Lost in the semifinals last week. Still upset about it. Did you walk before? No, I didn't. Maybe you should have because my team won. I don't think that would have helped.

So I'm 29. Most of the guys on the team are 29, 30, 31. And we played 22 know uh you know 22 year olds so we were super juiced about it and uh a lot of a lot of talking between the two sides they went up we came back tied at 3-3 we had a two-on-one going down um and with our two best players and one of them scuffed the shot wide a minute later the other team uh scores the go-ahead goal with a minute left. And then a 22-year-old legitimately tried to fake an injury on the running clock,

and I almost ran over and picked him up myself. Thankfully, that didn't happen, and you didn't hear about any fighting stories at Good Sports USA in Wall, New Jersey. I did see a local news story about a brawl at a men's league game in New Jersey. So maybe that was what that Fox story was right after the Liberty game turned off yesterday that I quickly got off that local news off my TV. I can't believe that that wasn't something that made you stick around for the entire show. Not just the stories like, oh, they have more of this. I want to watch in case they have more of this. You'd think.

Local news really knows how to suck me in and keep me engaged. We do have Justin Pfeiffer who says, gosh, just needed the extended warm-up, which is what I'm saying. That's that slow build warm-up. That's that World Cup level like, oh, we go for a walk pre-World Cup qualifier through the city just to get a little flow in the legs. 17 miles may be a little bit too much for that, but I'd be proud of it because that's probably the most exercise I've done in a very, very long time as well.

And shout out to New York City for being the perfect backdrop for an urban hike as needed. So as I mentioned, we've got some Leagues Cup to talk about. We've got San Diego to cover as well. We're going to, of course, preview the U.S open cup semi-finals indy 11 against sporting kc that one is at 8 p.m eastern time tonight in kansas city if indy 11 win they of course would be a usl team making it to a final if they win and then on wednesday night seattle knocks off lafc at home indy 11 would host the US Open Cup Final

Which I think would be a pretty cool moment So we will talk about all of that Tomorrow Seattle hosting LAFC That one 10.30pm Eastern Time Myself and Tom are going to do A private Zoom happy hour With our SoccerWise MVP subscribers Starting around 10 o'clock

And watch some of that game Or all of that game with everyone hang out you can ask us questions you can chat soccer non-soccer whatever it is you want to do so to get access to that you go to Patreon you subscribe at the MVP level and we will send you the zoom link for you to jump in with us we are very excited about that one and it's not too late so you can still jump in there and be a part of that one. And then, of course, we're going to help preview the Canadian Championship as well, as Toronto FC tries to overturn the deficit against Forge, and Vancouver tries to make it, I believe, three in a row,

if they were to win it once again here under Vanni Sartini. But let's start with League's Cup. Tom, we haven't been on together. I did my review show yesterday, recapping, reacting to a bit of it. But spoilers, Columbus Crew won another trophy. They made it even more exciting. They are the best team in the land of leagues and in the land of cups. Therefore, they're their Leagues Cup champion. Are you buzzing about it yeah i mean we're just witnessing something special something beautiful honestly i don't want to get too poetic about it but this style being the one that wins out is makes this even more special the way this team plays the way this team dominates the way this team dares to be you know the whole impossible is an opinion like that's not a shtick like this is real like the reason why this team doesn't get flustered when they're pressed,

the reason why this team doesn't get flustered when the other team sets up to just try to frustrate them is because they live this. They embody this. So this is a historic team we're watching, and I know that we've given the credentials for this over the last couple weeks. But, again, like, winning MLS Cup, winning League's Cup, getting to a CCC final that, you final that was tinged by potentially spiked food and the rotation that went to the toilets in the stalls at the final, notwithstanding.

And they're going to be among the favorites again to get to MLS Cup. They're still in the Shield race. I think that they're the best chance to catch Inter Miami. So all they're doing, the way they're doing it makes it so special. And I want to focus on Kuchar Hernandez as well. It's not just how incredible he is. He embodies this team, this city, this playing style. He's a one-of-one player, and it's just incredible.

And watching him show up in big games is beautiful. Watching him do everything he can for this team and watching him do it in so many different ways. Like this time last year, did you have Cujo Hernandez for back-to-back games with huge towering headers to score his goals over opponents, not just drifting at the back post for a tap? Like he's as liable to do that as he is to score from 25 yards, as he is to play a beautiful through ball with the outside of his foot

to Christian Ramirez that almost came off. Like, what he does for this team is incredible. It is such a perfect fit from player to manager to club to city to ethos, all of this, and it's just really incredible to watch. And we spend so much time, particularly myself, given what I do for a living, giving what my uniqueness is of breaking news and talking all of the theories theories all the the reporting on transfer news and what could happen with this like watching all this come together as perfect as it has like we need to fixate on this and there is not enough

columbus crew talk there is not enough flowers we can give the columbus crew that would um be requisite to everything that they've done. I absolutely agree with you. Upper 90 clubs already in the chat saying, are they the best team in the history of MLS? If not, who is? Those are not hyperbolic questions. If that is the space we are in, you start to have the conversation of,

okay, you're talking about, like what time period are you talking about? Are you talking about one year? Are you talking about four years? Are you talking about dynasty? Are you talking about all time? Those are other conversations we'll have to have and and figure out which i don't think we should do right now because they're not done we need to see the end of this year we need to

probably see them through another year depending on who stays to then give you the this this um error of columbus crew who they are and who they stand up against. But in the Cucho conversation, and I think you are right to key in on him, adding to the like, would you have said he would be the guy with the headers a year ago, two years ago when he signed, he signed with a team that didn't make the post season.

He signed in the middle of that year and he played on a team that ended up losing. I believe on decision day to orlando city and got knocked out of the playoffs he then comes back and playing on a team with lucas zellerion if you go back and watch the start of last year he was a left wing he wasn't starting there but almost all of his danger was he would pull out wide so zellerion could become the finisher down the middle then zellerion gets transferred and they bring in Diego Rossi. And now Cucho's the 10, 80% of the time.

And the rest of the time, he's the 9. He embodies all of this because he is a superstar willing to play in Wilfred Nance's setup of everyone does everything. Everyone pitches in all across the field. And everyone has this pure belief that wherever they're put, they can be successful. He obviously can do it at a level that no one else on the field can. And maybe no one else in Major League Soccer can. But because he's willing to do all of that, I think, you start to have a culture set outside of just the coaching staff.

Through this team, I still would say the moment of the game is the security guards bowing down to cucho who's sitting on the the boards like arms out to the fans and just like the pure love you see throughout the city throughout the app you know the entire stadium the atmosphere we obviously were in columbus for all-star and you could feel it from everyone of like they have their guy and they have this team that they can be completely in love with. And it obviously comes off the back of the like worst case scenario for a fan base thinking they're going to lose their team for no fault of their own. And then fighting to get them back and then some up and downs out of that. And now they're in this dream area.

And in texting with crew fans yesterday, they were like, I can't believe what it's like to be a crew fan right now. But I think you're right to key in on Cucho there because it's not just the quality. It's who he is. It's the personality. It's the connective tissue.

Christian Ramirez talked about it on this show when we were there. Their connection and brotherhood, how they've brought Diego Rossi into the fold in a time where he kind of was like, I'd left MLS. Do I want to come back?

What's my personality here? I was a golden boot winner at LAFC. Who am I in this team? And it's been flawless and it's worked out perfectly. And this game wasn't easy. I mentioned this on the show yesterday, but I think one of the cool things with this is like they got punched back in the second half, unlike at MLS Cup. And they still overcame that. And that shows you all of the BS talk of like,

oh, you can't play pretty out the back. You have to play it into Rosetta. You're not a hard team. It's like those two things have nothing to do with each other. And I think Columbus is an example of that. Yeah, and they were unflustered when LAFC tried to press or tried to push the temple or tried to make them uncomfortable and again like that comes from if this is your style all

the time and we're not changing we're not scared of anybody we would they they again respectful belief that hey if we play our best game we're gonna win and that's how we want to play and that's how we want to go down like like we were talking about on the last week that when they conceded a goal 14 seconds in against nycfc instead of wilfred nancy just mother bleeping everybody on the field and rudy camacho for the mistake he's just laughing because it like reminds me of like there was a howler from like victor valdez at barcelona like the messi era and people were piling on him it's like this is what you get for trying to play out of the back. Keeper sucks. It's on him. Several players, and I forget if it was Guardiola or if it was just a couple players,

was like, no, we're good with that. Because if that never happens, that means he's not ever playing out of the back. And that's what we need. So just, again, it reminds me of some of the quotes that were coming out of Wilford Nazi's first camp. I remember Sean Zawadzki being like, this is incredible. He's like, I want you to make mistakes. I want you to be brave enough to make mistakes because I'm going to pat you on the back and say keep trying and keep doing it. So everything that's coming from this team is incredible.

And even like little things, like again, we're talking philosophically, we're talking pretty grandiose. On a micro level, their first goal comes from a recycled corner kick. How many times have we seen a highlight start with lafc defending a corner kick a ball gets head out you don't know where it's going all of a sudden bwonga has it at his foot and he's sprinting the other way right that didn't happen at all really uh columbus like both in their rest defense specifically on set pieces is what i'm focusing on but just in general the rest defense was excellent where they were positioned it helps when you have one of the smartest players in league

history in darlington nagby but on that goal it was mo farcey and then he wins like i wouldn't call it a duel but he gets around edward atuesta entirely too easily um and recycle like plays a good pass instead of just you know trying to head it away or trying to shoot it like plays a good pass that recycles ends up in a kucho hernandez goal for lafc over the last six weeks a corner kick like that ends up in a Cucho Hernandez goal. For LAFC, over the last six weeks, a corner kick like that ends up in a transition opportunity. A corner kick that's under hit. Yeah, they're like stoked.

Yeah. So like, I think that's another little thing where like those two things usually don't go well together. Like you said, like, oh, if you're trying to play out of the back, you're not hard enough, right? Like usually it's like you're soft on set pieces. You're going to get counter. You're soft in this angle or that angle. Now they had Cucho jumping over defenders to win a header at the back post and then and then they have these other moments like I don't know I thought it was I thought it

was a really good game thought it was a really fun game the intensity was really high um and again this crew team is inevitable it's just inevitable I agree with you I thought it was a very good game I thought it was really enjoyable um for 45 minutes it wasn't. I thought it was a very good game. I thought it was really enjoyable. For 45 minutes, it wasn't what I thought it was going to be last Thursday when I was asking you, like, what's this final going to be? There's no way it's going to be the same because LAFC are so much better, and that didn't feel true. And that's a credit to Columbus, and it's a credit to Columbus because in the time between last year's MLS Cup and now they sold Aiden Morris

like they they didn't start Patrick Schulte which was their own decision like they have made moves they are not the exact same team so to be able to perform at the same level is impressive for a club to be able to continue to roll things along obviously if you haven't heard the story Will Fernandez gave Nico Hagen the starting goal He started the beginning of League's Cup because Patrick Schulte was at the Olympics. Schulte came back and took over for a bit. And Nance said, you started this, you get to finish it. And he starts Nico Hagen, a 24-year-old who doesn't have a ton of club experience. Guatemalan international.

And like, what a great moment for him. We saw his family traveled up for the game. Like all these big stories. Odmanson gets reinserted into the starting lineup for the first time in a while. But you can see going back to MLS Cup from last year, some of the ideas there. And that has been the story for this team. It's been Arfsten in the knockouts. It was Mo Farsi in the final.

You know, it's been Aiden Morris in MLS Cup. It's Sean Zawadzki in this final. They have the ability with their depth and their optionality to change things up and continue things and roll things forward. And they shut down a lot of what LAFC wants to do. And they shut down Buonga. You just talked about him, the transition, the counters, the danger. Olivier Giroud gets his first start for Columbus. He gets the goal in the second half after Louis O'Brien came out at halftime, helps LAFC get a little bit of control in the game.

The goal comes off a corner kick on a set piece, but Buonga never opens up, never threatens, is not the player we have seen for the last few weeks or last few years in Major League Soccer. And a ton of that credit is to Columbus for closing down all the passing angles before it gets to Buonga and closing down the spacing so he wasn't the option at any time for that LAFC back line. Yeah, I thought it was excellently done by LAFC.

I thought it was interesting that Buonga started on the right. And I didn't know if that was we want to isolate buonga with amundsen because we think that there's an even bigger pace advantage here than buonga has against you know literally anybody in the league um or if that was because hey stephen marrera isn't afraid of buonga and he gets forward so well that we want somebody who's going to be naturally dropping in anyway in bogus to be on that side so again i i thought that was curious i like the wrinkle i like the idea of it but they kind of switched back to what was normal to them after that so gosh like on this i was about to kick it back to you what is the vibes around lafc for you is it you know big game

another big game loss or is it like okay like you're coming up against what we're talking about for 15 minutes of a historic team in mls and you just played them on the road in the final multiple times I don't think you can just shake it off because it's the second time I think the first time and throughout this year and coming into this game it's like yep they got us like congratulations we didn't know what we were in for they were better than us we hadn't improved that roster yet you come out of this game and I think one of the big things is that you subbed off Eddie Atuesta at halftime. One of the guys who you say, we are different from the team from last year. Because Atuesta and central midfield can help us control the game. That's not the case.

Deserved to be subbed off for the effort on the goal, to be honest. A hundred percent. But if you're LAFCc when you look at things and say oh we're better than we were that's one of the big names and one of the big reasons and then gerud i think he'll settle in and like that's fine hugo loris not the best moment on that second goal it's a tough spot it's a tough like minute of play for everyone on lafc no one's turned on they let cucho get into space jason russell rowe gets to the near post on that run but hugo luis a world

cup winning goalkeeper not able to be able to get off his foot and get a touch to that ball because any touch there's no one else crashing for columbus so if he pushes that even out into the box in front of him it's a way all of these are just things in which i would think lafc are saying we're better than who we were because of these elements we've added and those elements ended up failing you in this game and you can't say that mls cup was a fluke you cannot do it twice in the same spot against the team same team and say it was a fluke so i think there'll be a large element with internally in LAFC saying, we've been to all these finals.

We are one of the best teams. We keep getting there because we're good and we know we're good. I think there'll still be confidence, but like you can't shake off what's occurred over the last 12, 18 months. You can't shake off the inability to finish at, you know, at the final stage and at that final group.

And I don't think you can shake off some of the struggles in this game, especially for a guy like Bulanga, where when you go into the next final, you can't guarantee the production from these guys. Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying. And I think that there's merits to those points. It's just, I think it'd be really hypocritical of us to be like, oh my God, this crew team is, you know, one of the best we've ever seen. They're incredible. They never lose at home. It's beautiful. I love it. Oh yeah, LAFC, that sucked your fraud. of us to be like oh my god this crew team is you know one of the best we've ever seen they're

incredible they never lose at home it's beautiful i love it and oh yeah lafc that sucked your fraud it's not good enough right like i you can't have those two and i wouldn't even call them extremes right but like on the same breath of talking about the crew's place in history in major league soccer to then be like well why didn't you just beat one of the teams that's one of the best ever particularly at lower.com field so for me i'm a bit more forgiving on this and i don't like i don't them getting to these big games is merit in and of itself it's kind of been my argument with the philadelphia union over the past few years um that like yeah it's you can want more you can be disappointed but like i don't think that you can be critical that like oh they've just only been one of the most consistent and one of the best teams in the

league but you weren't the number one best sorry ricky bobby if you ain't first you're last like i just think that's too reductive for me i think that's fair i also think comparing lafc and philadelphia union is also unfair because philadelphia union didn't sign olivia jerud to fill in their hole they didn didn't sign Eddie Atuesta. They didn't get DC United's best player two years ago as like a free throw in later. There's nobody more locked into the 2022 or 2023 DC United and David. Then this guy,

let's be real at that time. Ryan Hollingshead was arguably the best player on Dallas. He's in this LAFC team. So while I agree with you that like the first and last thing is the rings cultures trash. And like you end up in a terrible argument as a Knicks fan. Obviously I live rings culture talk. It's the only thing I care about.

It's the only thing I respect. The fact that it happens again in the same way is, is something we don't normally see. And now you're in a space where for LAFC, their spot in history is starting to become secured in that second spot. And that's not where you want to be. And it's tough to convince me otherwise. When Ilya Sanchez walks through the locker room in the playoffs

and goes, call them favorites. Yes, we're going to call them favorites because you have lost to this team twice. LAFC, maybe the best thing they have going for them in terms of you have lost to this team twice lafc maybe the best thing they have going for them in terms of winning mls cup this year is that the east is so much tougher on the top it would surprise me less to see columbus not make mls cup final than to see columbus lose mls cup final if they got there um going forward on the lafc side we got a question yesterday in the mailbag about willian he's a free agent apparently he was on the lafc side we got a question yesterday in the mailbag about

william he's a free agent apparently he was hanging around lafc games do you have any is there any flame there with that smoke uh i got i got nothing that that is is reportable nothing nothing either way okay um it would wouldn't be a game changer for them but more good soccer players is always better than less. Do you have anything else on this one before we move forward? No, no, because we're going to talk about the Open Cup semi later. LAFC are going to play, as I said, against Seattle coming up in the Open Cup final. That one, or sorry, Open Cup semifinal.

That one against Seattle in Seattle. Reminder, they beat Seattle in League's Cup play in the quarterfinals. So they won that game 3-0. So now they have to rebound from the final on Sunday evening to go to this semifinal where Seattle played their early game on Saturday. And then they get to go home and relax. So there's going to be a tough turnaround for LAFC. We've got that coming up later in the show. But let's stick in California and let's talk San Diego here. Because San Diego,

you are reporting at Give Me Sport that they are prepared to make Mikey Varas their first head coach. Mikey Varas, a name you'll all be familiar with. He was the USU 20 coach since 2021. He worked as an interim and an assistant coach under Greg Berhalter and around US soccer. I believe the reports are that he will be the interim coach for the friendlies against Canada and New Zealand coming up. Correct. That's the plan. With Pochettino still trying to figure out his contract status coming out of Chelsea and all of that before his time with U.S. soccer. Mikey Varas was an assistant and a youth coach with FC Dallas from 2017 all the way through 2020. First team assistant and a youth coach in their academy, one of the most successful

academies in the country before that. And before that, he was an academy coach with Sacramento Republic, one of the other best academies in the country as well. This will be his first head coaching spot and his first head coaching spot at a senior position in major league soccer tom what have you made of this as you've started to report it and hear about it yeah i think it's super interesting so mikey varas has been on the radar of several ms clubs he's one of those guys that like when you're putting together lists of okay who could be the next head coaches um and when you go through the familiar like either former coaches

in mos like a guy like gio savarese comes up as an obvious all right but that guy makes sense to talk to then you go to assistant coaches or rising young coaches him yoan demay are like the two that come to mind for me and i apologize if some others aren't coming on top of my head so like this isn't out of nowhere this isn't just because because of his performances with the U20s or an assistant on Greg Berhalter's staff at the Copa America. I know that that finish, the way that that tournament went, was very, very bad for the United States. But that's still part of his resume. He was interviewed for the Columbus crew job that ultimately went to Wilford Nancy.

And I don't want to misrepresent this. He was obviously not the top choice Wilford Nancy was. they were interested in Jim Curtin as well some other but like he was in the mix at a club like the Columbus Crew even two years ago or a year and a half ago whenever exactly that kind of went through so he's been on the radar of MLS clubs he's viewed as a highly rated rising young coach he was the assistant under Luchi Gonzalez at FC Dallas and then took that into being the USU20 head coach. He won the 2022 CONCACAF U20 championships, which served as qualification for the Olympics. So he led the United States to qualify for the Olympics for the first time since 2008. And again, then he kind of graduated after that to being with the senior

national team this summer before Greg Berhalter was fired. So those are kind of all of his bona fides. It makes sense for me this hire. It's, it's exciting in a young coach, a coach that, you know, he has youth ethos in his DNA, like going from Dallas as an academy manager to the first team under

Lucci. And then obviously the youth national teams with the United States. And that's what San Diego wants to be. They're going to be a place that develops young talent, whether from their own academy or from players coming in abroad like they have signed several veterans obviously Chucky Lozano and Patty McNair the two biggest names but around those veterans they're going to have a lot of young talent so you need a manager who can develop youth and who will play youth and it's the ethos of the club it's the right to dream setup of like it's not just that you will play or you. And it's the ethos of the club. It's the right to dream setup of like,

it's not just that you will play or you acknowledge it. It's the idea that like a large part of these clubs are set up to progress young players. And like, that's the existence of right to dream was, it was an academy first that bought professional soccer teams so that they could move their own academy players through those teams and sell them on to fund the whole process and give those players that next step that they felt they weren't getting,

mainly out of West Africa, then expanded up to North Africa, and now you're coming over to the United States to do that. That part makes sense, right? You're talking about a guy, Mikey Vars, as I mentioned. FC Dallas Academy, Sacramento Academy, those are two of the best in North America. They have two of the best track records. They are two clubs that do play young players. When they push them through, they develop great young players.

They recruit great young players as well. And then you go to the national team. Now, I would say I think the national team U-20 job is one that I think gets confused a lot by people where it feels like a big deal. And I think it is a big deal for players. I think it's different for coaches. And I think it's different for coaches going through back into club soccer. And obviously Tab Ramos, who had very similar success at the U-20 levels to Mikey Varas, was not able to then piggyback that into a successful career as a head coach in Major

League Soccer or the USL Championship, where you are with your players every day. You are helping build rosters. You are helping manage personalities over the course of 12 months, not for four days and five days and a camp in Italy and then one World Cup in the end of that whole cycle. There's not a ton that happened with the U20s where I think Mikey Vares stands out as different from other U-20 teams for the U.S., right? They won the regional championship. Tabaremos did that twice. They played in a U-20 World Cup. They beat Ecuador, which is great. Otherwise, they beat the teams the U.S. always beats. The U.S. beats the non-big teams. They

beat New Zealand every time we get drawn with New Zealand, which is constant for some reason at the Youth World Cup. And then they move on from there. And I would say FC Dallas isn't exactly the model that I would want to base my MLS club on or the success that I would want to base my MLS club on in terms of competing at the highest level. That all goes to say that I could understand some levels of this. I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm underwhelmed in the way in which if Chucky Lozano is assigning up here, then I think Mikey Varas is in addition as a head coach sort of right in the middle. And you mentioned he's one of the rising young names.

I would argue the other rising young names have been head coaches. Eric Quill, Danny Cruz, Paul Modica, all those guys are in a similar conversation, and all of them have won championships as head coaches Eric Quill Danny Cruz Palmodica all those guys are in a similar conversation and all of them have won championships as head coaches already and all of them are 35 or 36 or 37 and could give you a lot of what Mikey Varas gives you but having experience as well yeah okay so that was going to be my pushback of like all right well then what is the alternative right like yeah this isn't a team that's going to hire Tata Martino this isn't like jimmy lozano is a name that's been floating out there i don't know if that was real or fake or not but like like what is the alternative it's not going to be a huge huge name it's not going to be the most expensive head coach in the league

it has to be somebody with developmental jobs has like it makes sense that they would go with somebody who has an intimate knowledge of major league soccer of the rigors that come with this league the nuances that come with this league and everything else, particularly with, you know, a first-time sporting director and an ownership group that has made their mark in European soccer and academy building with Right to Dream and everything else. So I think that the synergy here is good, again, first and foremost with the youth development

and everything that comes with that. But, like, you point to Pa Moda Khan. Yeah, those I think would have been fine hires as well, but I'd put them all in the same group. So let me ask you this, because I said those names in the vein of Mikey Varas got hired, so clearly we're in that conversation. Let me start here. Are you surprised that this is not a club with the signing they made

in Chucky Lozano to start that they're not closer to the tata martino marcello gallardo that is not that world that is okay no um just because of what they want to build in terms of youth or in terms of spending both probably like i don't know who their second deep like so they're a team that's gonna again uh all this is subject to change but all my intel leads me to believe that this is a team very team that's going to, again, all this is subject to change, but all my intel leads me to believe that this is a team, very firmly, that's going to be a 2DP, 4U22 initiative. Like, they would have brought in Sergio Ramos on a TAM deal. He wanted $12 million, right? Which, obviously, that would be an asinine number to give a 37-year-old center back, whatever, right?

But my point is, like, maybe Sergio Ramos heard what Chucky Lozano was getting. Like, Chucky Lozano was getting like Chucky Lozano was more of a this is what we this is us this is the star that we're building around not like cool we just signed Chucky let's go sign a 10 million dollar player and then use our U22 slots on you know three seven million dollar signings and and whatever else right like I don't think that they're going to be in like the opera restaurant of spending and I don't mean that derisively I'm just saying that factually that like the orlando city is probably a good comp for them and like orlando city spends particularly on

transfer fees in recent history but like they have fugundo torres and then like martino haydo is like four million and whatever his salary is like a good dp a good level for a dp in terms of money and spend but not like oh my god like're going to go get Cucho and then whatever Diego Rossi is. And then on top of that, if they want to go add another $10 million player. All right. Well, we've talked about this a little bit. I seem a little bit more frustrated than you do. So we're going to start a new segment called Make It Make Sense. And we're going to bring an expert on to help us, to help guide us through this. We're going to talk to, many of you know him, Bobby Warshaw.

He's the director of North America at Bloom Sports. They are an advisory organization that helps clubs literally with this, manage hiring processes for major roles like executives, GMs, and of course head coaches around professional soccer teams. Let's talk to Bobby right now. You heard the credentials. Let's talk to the man himself, Senor Bobby Warshaw. You know him very well from the soccer content minds back in the day,

but of course now with that new title. And Bobby, you are here to help me make it make sense. So you weren't with us before. Me and Tom have already talked about this a little bit. And one of the things I said to Tom was, this feels slightly underwhelming to me. For a club to sign a player like Chucky Lozano to sort of put their profile up there and then to sign a coach like Mikey Varas who has a

good resume and I don't know if he's going to be a bad coach but it feels like he went from an assistant coach in MLS on a not very good team to beating New Zealand at one U20 tournament and now is eligible to be a head coach. So Bobby, make it make sense. I mean, first, I just want to say that, you know, long time, first time, I'm very honored to be on the show for this segment. B, I wasn't ready for the shade at New Zealand there, David, but noted. And C, I just, I would like to kind of extend it and maybe step backward for a step and say David when you think about hiring a head coach you know you are Tyler Heaps you are Ned Grablevoy you are

Mike Jacobs who have hired head coaches in MLS lately what do you want like talk to me about what you're solving for in that scenario if I'm hiring a coach in major league soccer specifically i think i want someone who has an understanding of the ups and downs and the flow of the season and the different intricacies of the league because i'm probably going to be like chucky lozano bringing in players who aren't from the league so i want some level of understanding there i want an overall coherent style not um being religious to that but having something some framework that we work within. And then I think you're looking culturally for a person who is someone that everyone can feel inspired by and want to be around and build a culture that people enjoy being a part of.

Does that feel right, Tom? Yeah, I mean, for me, like you said, the principles of a play style. So it's pretty coherent, but not like dogmatic in that I will never change off of this one thought despite how my roster may change or how other things may change. I would also add for this job in particular, San Diego, you have to be bilingual. That has to be a requirement, not a preference. Yeah, I like that. We would call that a non-negotiable in our framework.

Tom? Sorry, requirement wasn't good enough for you, Bobby? good enough. It's close. I like where you're going with that. All right, can I I'm gonna play that back and I'm going to simplify it. And I apologize if this is over if this is like reductively simple, but this is just the way my brain works. So let's simplify it. And we would say that there's five things that you're looking for from your head coach. And I would go back to your conversation about Bradley

Carnell, I thought was excellent. But I think it could have been simplified to these five things. When you have a head coach, A, you want them to make the team better. We agree on that. And I want you to agree or disagree. But A is we want them to make the team better. B is we want them to play soccer the way that we want. Right? Like they play the style that we expect and that we hope they play

c is that they like the players that i also like right we agree on profiles on levels that we have some agreement on player recruitment part part four which i think is actually the bradley carnell piece here that you were alluding to a couple months ago, Tom, was that do they play the players that I want them to play? Like, you know, as a GM, you are the head coach's boss. There are GMs in Major League Soccer that tell the head coach who to play. Maybe not specifically play them or fire, but like either they have a bonus in their contract for playing young or homegrown players, or it was very clear that if you play the players that I like and I like, and I sign, you will get rewarded. So that's four. Then I would say number five is that you broadly like to work with them. I mean, when you walk into a club, you know, facilities, it's an incredibly

intense place. It's both equal measures, like, you know, joyous, jubilant, jubilant a word, but also like scary and angsty and intense. And you need someone you can get along with. So just to set the stage, do we broadly agree with those five things that you want your head coach to accomplish? That they make the team better, that they play the style you want, that they like the same players you do, that they play the players that you want them to play, and that you like working with them on a regular basis. Does that feel just like to set the stage? Yeah, I mean, I'd say three and four, there is nuances and differences of like,

it doesn't have to be like a dictatorship or the head coach doesn't have a huge say in the recruitment. So like somewhere in there generally, yes. Yeah, for sure. And I think the nuances there are really interesting, Tom. Like how do you integrate a head coach into your scouting process is something that smart people disagree on. It could probably take its own show. But those are the five things. The next thing, David, I would say is if you start this process, knowing that

you're trying to do those five things, how would you evaluate or filter your head coach, you know, you're doing your scouting process, your evaluation and recruitment, like talk to me about how you think you are measuring what you want. When you go into that, that filtering process of how to call the names that I should start talking to. Sure. I mean, we would think like, you know, you've got, I don't know what it is, 5,000 head, you know, men's head coaches out there. How do you go from 5,000 to 10? And then how do you go from 10 to five, five to two, two to one? Like, just talk to me about maybe what your evaluation rubric looks like. I think I would probably start with current coaches that I think are available

that I think I could get connected to a la Wilfred Nance with Columbus, which is a really small pool because there's 29 clubs in the league. And I put those names down and see if any of them interest me enough to make that attempt. And if I think it's possible,

after that, I would go through the names of the USL championship coaches, current and recent, you know, recently let go potentially are available and MLS next pro as well, as well as the recently let go ones outside of major league soccer. And I would have what a hundred names then that I could pull through and start to go into either. Maybe I would go into the names that I already know I like or success and start to look at their trees and how you're connected to them. If not people I'm already connected to that I know I believe in as well. So you said all domestic coaches there, which I want to come back to in a second, but say you have that list of 11 or sorry, the list. I didn't say all domestic. I said connected to, I like that. Okay.

Great distinction, but let's come back to that in a second i think that distinction is really important say you have a hundred names david then what like how do we decide if mikey varis and or bruce arena go from the 100 to the 10 or they don't um well i would assume i would get into interviews but I guess you're saying before I get into interviews. I think if I think you can go through those names, then and say, these people I identify with, for what I want my club to be identified with. For different reasons, you could start with what Tom said of being bilingual, right? That's an easy checklist that you can go through and say option, not option, if that's what you want to do. The other would, I assume you would get into budget pretty quickly, knowing the sphere that most people operate in and the sphere I'm going to operate in.

I would probably make an attempt to find some connection to my area and my history. And if there's an obvious names that come out there, which is Southern, we're in the San Diego conversation, Southern California natives played for the loyal, in the area whatever it was i would probably try and use those first to see if that gets me to 10 names yeah tom anything you would add you know if you're tyler heaps in this situation anything you add to your filtering process yeah i mean just even broadening it more before filtering it down like i know god said some connection to major League Soccer,

some understanding of the league. I would say is I wouldn't be as binary with that. I think that I would look in League MX as well. I would look in South America. But with that, any negotiations with a candidate like that would say, hey, I'm giving you an assistant coach that is an experienced MLS person to balance that out if you went with somebody from Mexico, South America, or Europe that doesn't have any connection to MLS.

So even taking it a step back, and then that creates other nuances within that, whether you go domestic or international, because obviously that's not a thing if you hire somebody that's familiar with MLS. So from there on, it'd be playing style, diving into what players either got better or what players advanced, and how much can you put to Mikey Vars. Using Mikey Vars, sorry, as an example, you would look at him for his time as an academy

manager in academy manager in dallas assistant in dallas in the u20s and so on there um and then you just do that for coaches and it's a little bit more difficult to do that for folks who have only been in assistant yeah um and haven't kind of run their own team right and but that's kind of how you dive into it yeah so. So I like everything you said, I'm going to try and play that back and simplify it again. So David, to tell you like the way that Tyler would approach this or most, I mean, Tyler has the background in data. So most big organizations at this point, they'll do a worldwide filter to start. They'll take all, you know,

we'll say 5,000 men's coaches and they'll be, they'll do a data filter to begin with that data filter usually has five components. And you talked about some of the qualitative things, David, which are, do they have a local connection? Are they bilingual? Those would usually be later filters. So you would do this first data one, say it brings back 15, 20 names. That might be something you use for the last five. But the first things you look at, again, I'll give you kind of a five part checklist, the overall performance, which have they shown that they can make a team better. So a simple measurement, like a lot of companies or clubs might have some proprietary metric for this, right? You probably see them on Twitter often. But as a very basic, you can just use points per game, goal difference or expected goal difference. You look before,

during and after that person's tenure. And quite simply, did they make the team better in that tenure is number one. And that's probably the majority of it. You know, that's probably say 40, 50% if you were to assign a number. Number two is playing style, right? I broadly know how I want to play. Does this person do that? What I found kind of talking to a lot of owners and organizations on style is there's not that many stops on the road, especially now, right? Most teams press, most teams pass, you know, for the most part, it's, I find it interesting, like even teams that get relegated or in relegation battles pass and press because the coach cares more about looking good in these data filters than they do about avoiding relegation. So, you know, playing style is too. Tom, you pointed out player development or roster composition right have they shown that if they

have the choice between playing the 29 year old or the 19 year old that they'll have the guts for the 19 year old beyond even if they can actually make that player better do they have the guts to put them on the field that's number three number four is have they shown any ability to make in-game adjustments that matter this is really hard to measure right because like what is the baseline for this so i don't like to do this but some people do right do they make subs do they control game states do they you know all of these things for in-game adjustment and then five is the level of players they've coached so major league soccer is different to the premier league right the idea that jürgen klopp can get the most out of liverpool and therefore could do it for nashville sc

i would bet that he could but it's not a given right like the way i'm about to throw his computer the way you train these players the way you evaluate them the way you talk to them there's something you know it's hard i see like, if you go back and validate these and back test, like, there's not a ton of correlation to them. But if we can generally assume that they all matter, then coaching players of similar level matter. So David, I would say that's the five part filter that then says, let's go from the 5000 coaches to the 50 or the, you know, 30 that we're going to look at the next level. And the next thing I want to do is those all give you a bunch of numbers. The question is, how do you know what a good number is? And for this, I think it goes to the whole domestic or us candidate. So I want

to dig into that. David, you basically said you want to coach with us adjacent experience, right? Like I would call Oscar Prea a domestic coach at this point Right Would you okay yeah sorry Continue Pata at this point a domestic coach Right he's been in U.S. he knows the System

Whenever you do this analysis and Tom I want to go back to the international coach thing So if I say I'm looking at an International coach right Someone from the Brazilian league someone from the french league what's your first thought do they have an understanding of the nuances of major league soccer even at a baseline level of how the salary cap work and what is realistic to expect or not to expect in terms of roster composition yeah and roster. I like that answer. Can I nudge you to take a step back and look at what's worked and what hasn't?

Right? Like, look at historical evidence first. And there's two people who probably know Major League Soccer as well as anybody in the world. From kind of Bloom has done this research for clubs. Since 2019. So Tata started in what, 2017? Since 2019. Do you know the ballpark for the number of coaches,

head coaches coming to Major League Soccer that have had no previous connection to Major League Soccer? So they weren't an assistant, they didn't play. To your point, Tom, like they didn't understand the salary cap, the travel, the fields, all of that. You're asking us how many? How many? Yeah, since... 20? Yeah, that feels right.

It's about 14, right? How you exactly measure it. Of those 14, Tom, you know, like, loose, how many were a success? And I know that's a layered question, but, like, give me two. Ronnie Dyla. Tata.

Well, Tata didn't count, because Tata was technically a domestic adjacent. No, but you said back. But he started in 2017. I'm saying started in 2019. Ah, since then. Besides Dyla. I feel like we've had this conversation.

There's somebody else, and that might be it. Well, if you think of Ronnie Dyla, who should be the next person that comes to mind? Nick Cushing? Dome. Patrick Vieira. Dome. Durant. person that comes to mind nick coaching dome patrick dome so what i would say though is there's basically 14 coaches that have come into major league soccer that didn't have previous mls experience right and if you're listening you probably have the names going through your head frank deborah losada xoloto struber almeida heinze diego alonso ramirez phil neville wayne rooney ron yans yop stop

right and if you think about that list you think like hmm how many would i hire again like how many worked out team coaches you know we'll say we'll say dial in trent we're like okay they did a good job they did a good job with city football group who had them on their list for years and had unlimited resources to back them and bring players in the other 12. Frank DeBoer is complicated. I didn't remember this. I did the research. Frank DeBoer won a trophy and finished in second knees and then was fired.

Whatever. Three games. Joseph Martinez won a trophy. Okay. But you can understand. So I acknowledge that the idea of successful is complicated here, but you know, if we look at the 12 non CFG coaches and who came into major league soccer basically none of

them did particularly well with that club so that's what i would say when you think about the analysis right you want to think there's really five categories of coaches that you're like doing benchmarking against there's the assistant coach this is noonan josh wolf jim and it's it's skewed because like ben olsen and jim curtain turned out to be successful in some way after they were to lose because teams that hire assistant coaches tend not to have the resources and have a long leash assistant coach a retread of a winner bruce arena greg vanny caleb porter well that's a really complicated one but like yeah for sure one trophy of course you're right that's two a retread of a loser armis phil neville but like you know the names that have come out lately that fans are like why

that person hopefully this conversation helps you understand that so reach out to losers three international coach who is new just decided like we're basically over 12 in the last five years yeah an international coach was returning tough tata martino right yeah when you do this thing like when you think about this all of a sudden david i hope it makes someone like why does colorado Rapids hire Chris Armas? Again, on the five things, has he made the team better? I don't know. But realistically, how many coaches who are going to come to MLS for $700,000 relative to a Premier League coach that makes $3 million?

So if you have a proven track record, every other team with more money in the world is doing this analysis and they're going to get you. So that one is probably out. And then do we like the same players? Do they play players I like? Do they play my style? Do they know the league rules? Because there's a pretty decent bucket of evidence that shows if you don't, you're going to struggle.

So I think, David, your point about is Mikey Varis underwhelming? Maybe. But what's the next option? And then I think once you work down that ladder, it makes these coaches that fans were underwhelmed by. And now like, quite frankly, the dynamo we're in a conference final, Colorado are, you know, are doing great. I hope it brings into perspective, the thought process that the GMs go through to land on these decisions

and I think Tom the Bradley Carnell like didn't seem to like the same players as Lutz didn't play the players he wanted you know I think that's a pretty simple the team was doing fine so anyway I hope that colors it having you know bringing some experience from being in the room with the owners and the GMs on this. Tom, does it make sense? Yeah, that was excellent. And I think that it's easy. And like, that was kind of, that was a much better way of making the argument I was going to make or that I made before that, like, maybe it is underwhelming, but like, let's talk about who are the realistic candidates.

What was the realistic thought process, right? And where does San Diego and MLS club stand in the global market and with the intricacies and nuances of this league yeah bobby i know we have to let you go but let me ask you this before we finish then is in a way should we be thinking about what you're saying is that the gms basically not that they want to coach the teams but that they want situations where they're more influential and therefore we shouldn't think of the coaches as the head or their own thing but the coach is a piece of it great point david like this is really important we are in a time now when gms control as much or

more than ever right if there was a time when the when the head coach picked the players recruited them sign them coach them put them on the field right now we're seeing a time when the head coach, pick the players, recruited them, sign them, coach them, put them on the field, right? Now we're seeing a time when the head coach does, you know, not much more than like coach the tactics, and sometimes maybe not others pick the lineup, right? GMs want someone that will not really want to say in recruitment process. An example there, David, is, this is like, I think a really again a really interesting question when does the head coach contribute in recruitment you know again there is a time when they identified the need they identified the short list they did the filtering

they signed the player and they like they pick them and sign them now they are basically given two or three players by the gm the gm has already said i want any of these which one do you want the most right like that's basically it there are also times like with roster composition if you look you can set up your roster where the head coach basically has very little choice right i can decide based on the number of right backs that i play whether my head coach is going to play the 18 year old homegrown at right back a certain number of minutes because i broadly know how many minutes right backs play i know how many i want to get like this is how roster composition contributes to team strategy which contributes to the type of head coach you sign so yeah david we're absolutely in a time when head coaches do

less i don't know that makes them any less important but their decision making authority within a organization is less than ever. I think people, and I'm one of these people, think that that is beneficial to the head coach. Head coaching has got to be the hardest job in the world. Obviously, that's not true, so I apologize for the hyperbole, but you get the idea. It's so hard.

So how can we simplify it for them? So I think that's a great point, David. And I would, yes. And it, the second hardest job in the world is being an MLS fan. We are trying to make it a little bit easier. Thank you, Bobby, for helping make it make sense for us and our fans out there. You are now the official sponsor of make it make sense at soccer. I hope I helped. I hope I simplified it and didn't confuse it. So thank you for having me and keep up the great work tom coming out of the convo with bobby do you feel any differently about this hiring this process or the asinine things that i have said like most things after i talked to bobby warshaw one i just i try to keep up intellectually he's one of the smartest

people i know so i always feel the pressure so that was nice and the fact that he was making my argument but just much more intelligently and better i felt yeah you got a win on that one it's funny what i like that he was uh panning the questions you at first so i was like all right let's see what goss answers i give him more time to think gives him more time to think and he so i can go hmm i totally agree That was a good point, Goss also had. He should speak Spanish too. And he's like, great point. And I'm like, thank you, thanks, Bobby.

I think where I netted out what I said at the end there of like, I think the role of coach has changed. And so my version of processing this has to change. Like, like you've always background is mainly as an assistant. If you believe that the GM is setting so much of the direction yes that's not what you're hiring him for but that's closer to what you're hiring him for than to be peter vermis who is the dominant force in the space and controls the culture and everything and all of that um and so i can get there as well the other is as you start to whittle that pool down

You realize how much smaller it is And where you really can go I do think We have to push MLS teams more With what Columbus did With Wilfred Nance To say if you want to show that you are Aggressive or you are big

Or you do have goals. There are other ways to go about this. And it's not always an acceptable answer to say, well, these were our only options. And like, this is all we could do because a club has proven that that wasn't the case and you could do more if you really wanted to. But I don't really know who I'd put in that list because Pat Noonan's

not coming. We bring up Jim Curtin all the time. We probably bring him up too much. And I don't know if he even fits the style that they want and if it would be there, but those then go into a spending category where you have to spend to get them and probably spend to make them want to move in a way where you're starting to get into the numbers that you're talking about with it,

that we started the segment with, with Atata, Martino, and guys like that. Yeah, and a little housekeeping. I was going to come back to that. I kind of misspoke when I said that Columbus talked to Jim Curtin. It was Cincinnati who were wanting Jim Curtin rather than before they ended up with Pat Newton. And sometimes in those scenarios, I know that was specific

because Philly's assistant GM, Chris Albright, went to go for Cincy. Like, there was no amount of money that was going to let Jim Curtin have his contract just kind of on a principle that, like, all right, we're giving you our number two in the front office. Like, you're not also going to go take our head coach and then probably then try to take our best players, right? So, something like that. So, like, sometimes it's kind of out of your control. Like, depends on what these contracts are and how willing the other team is to work with you. But, yeah, like, I think another point, like, it's obvious to just cherry pick the top examples, right? So, like, I understand that there's much, much more nuance.

There are as many failures as there are going to be successes. But, like, little things like Wilfred Nansen, when he started in Montreal, that was insanely underwhelming to me. I was like, oh, so Thierry Henry left and it's just like the assistant coach said, I want the job. It's like, okay, cool. Like, of course Montreal went this way, right? We ended up working out the best decision they ever made just to set up the worst thing that they ever did by running him out of town

and going to Columbus. But, like, Steve Trundle taking over at LAFC, that was kind of underwhelming, right? Like, if we're doing it by those standards so like I think that's just what I come back to is like you kind of never know and like I don't love the like Guillermo Barrascholoto Galaxy loved that hire thought it was awesome it was awful in in reality same Frank DeBoer right like you can quibble on yeah they won the open cup well again I still think that Joseph won the open cup that year but the

whole point is is that that I don't know if big name, underwhelming, overwhelming, how much that actually is correlated to a manager being good. Again, there are a hundred examples of that seems like an underwhelming hire and yeah, well that hire sucked. It's true. It does go

both ways here. I just don't know what to make of it that way. I think you're right. I think the reality of it is what is the work culture that they're able to build like how does it all come together right how does the gm the coaching staff like how do they all operate together and therefore what are they able to put out there is pat noonan the best coach in the league from a pure soccer standpoint i don't know but pat noonan alongside chris albright with the players they've brought in is one of the most competitive coaches in major league soccer that works it would work in any scenario i'm not sure so i think that's all fair uh i'm hope san diego fans are excited uh because it also is starting to feel real and tangible for them you gave them

plenty of reasons to be excited yeah i gave them a ton of reasons to be excited and they've got more going forward. So a lot there on San Diego. I hope you enjoyed it all. We'll have to have Bobby back once again to talk about all of this at sometime in the future. Let's dig into the U S open cup now though, because we've got trophies on the line.

We've got more to do around the U S.s soccer circles tonight 8 p.m eastern time skc hosting indy 11 the final usl team alive in this competition trying to do what sacramento did two years ago and make it to a final i believe rochester are the only team to have won the u.s open cup in the mls error since mLS started in 1986 that was back in 1999 SKC comes off I would say their best game of the year they dominated Orlando at home until the red card they were really good across the field they didn't give up a ton of opportunities they didn't have to over play though and throw too many numbers into the attack, which is one of their problems to create chances. It was Jake Davis's best game at central midfield.

He scored, he had an assist that makes it seem obvious, but he was able to cover ground and keep the game connected alongside Basang. I still think his best role that I've seen him play in MLS is at right back. But you can understand the idea of like a good young player who's had success, bring him back to his natural position because if he can be a center mid for you, you're a better club if you have a good homegrown center mid that you can build the rest of your roster around. Some weird notes in here.

Andreas Fontas was taken off at halftime in the Orlando game at a 1-0 lead. Danny Rosero slowly returning, was brought back on. And then Pulido came off the bench late as a quote-unquote number 10 for Tommy until Willie Agata picked up a straight red card that was originally two yellows and upgraded to a red. So VAR not doing him very well there. My assumption would be Agata from the start and plays a ton of minutes in this one because he can't play next weekend and that's probably what his role is on this team

anyway to suck up minutes and skc this is a chance to save their season like this is kind of all they have going forward it's a huge opportunity yeah a trophy is on the line you're two wins away from a trophy you're playing at home in this game against the usl championship side it will be a huge disappointment if they don't win particularly given what the season is and you're coming off what you said is is probably the best performance of the season definitely the best performance for for a while here and you're rolling into the open cup and if you can hang a trophy at the at the end of lift a trophy at the end of the season like that's a big silver lining um it doesn't mean that everything's going to be okay, but we're all here for trophies.

We're all here for that celebration, the confetti snow angel, right? So this is a very, very important week for them, or sorry, this game and then the final will be in a month if they get there. And it comes with the pressure of not just losing, but losing at home to a USO championship side. I think that would turn the fire up to 11 for this club. I know that there's been a lot of pressure on Peter Vermees and a lot of pressure on this team.

That has turned for national media like ourselves into apathy or ambivalence. Go back to our show Thursday. We're talking about the watchability rankings. And all I can muster up is I don't understand what the point is of this team. Whereas when you're local, it's a lot more anger. And so, I don't know, man. This has to be a win for Sporting Kansas City,

and they have a chance to get a silver lining for their season, which, again, would be excellent to add another trophy. Yeah, they got dumped in League's Cup getting out of the group stage. I believe they lost 5-0 to the crumb yeah yeah in that round of 32 so not great success there but as you said this is a big chance it would qualify them for concaf play next year as well i think a place that this club believes they should be in conversations they believe they should be in every club should believe that yeah and like like and they better like i hope that they did um and this is a team as well that has been in some big games in moments like that um in the past and this is

another big game for them u.s open cup has meant a lot to this club under peter vermis um but as you said if they lose this game at home that would be a completely different conversation and if they were to do so it would be against Indy 11, who lost 3-2 this weekend to Las Vegas Lights. It was a fully rotated team. Sean McCauley in his first year as manager for this Indy 11 team, he was the interim manager for Minnesota United and chose to step away for this permanent role.

With this Indy 11 squad, Indy 11 have been around for a little while, originally NASL, then moving into USL. They haven't won a playoff game since 2019. They only qualified once since that time. That was last year. They lost five zero in the opening round of the postseason to eventual champions,

Charleston battery. A lot of that time was under Mark Lowry, who currently I believe is the real Monarchs coach, but had coached El Paso before and had a ton of that time was under mark lowry who currently i believe is the real monarchs coach but had coached el paso before and had a ton of success there and this was seen as like a home run addition for indy 11 and everything went wrong under him and now they've reset themselves under sean mccauley they are a veteran laden team so they are not going to be shocked by this moment they are they have players who have been here before who have been in major league soccer and have played at sporting park or

live strong or wherever the hell we are at this point dig me no not digging the health give me a health children's mercy park you got nailed it got there eventually you've got sebastian guanzotti and augie williams up top they've both been top five for Golden Boot two or three times over the last five years. You've got Romario Williams, who has scored goals in Major League Soccer and scored goals across the USL. Ken Lindley's on an injury, so question marks there as well. But a ton of players who have been in a spot like this. I watched some Indy 11 this week sort of to remind myself what they look like and what they are. Big time professional David Godson.

Big time stuff. That's incredible. He cares about the audience at SoccerWise. Just what a professional. I also would love nothing more than to go to Indianapolis at the end of September for this game. I've spent a lot of time in Indy over the last two years. None of it when the weather was nice.

I would love to be there in September. I would love to go to a soccer game, and I would love for it to be a U.S. Open Cup final at a USL stadium and have that atmosphere and that event. They're going to play five in the back in this game. They're probably going to play Guanzotti in the hole underneath two center forwards. One option is Douglas Martinez, if he's healthy,

who you'll remember from the Sacramento team that made the run two years ago. Malik Foster on this roster as well, started that U.S. Open Cup final two years ago for Sacramento. Otherwise, Romario Williams in that spot. They've got a loaded central midfield of veterans, Aiden Quinn, who's won a ton of USL championships in that spot as well. Some bigger name signings from England and from some other places and a pretty veteran back line. One of the interesting things is they have a rookie

right now who is playing on a USL amateur contract before he attends the University of Indianapolis, who has pushed Ben Mines out of the starting right wing back spot and scored a goal two weeks ago against New Mexico and has been a really bright spot for this team. Aiden Stanley, a starter for this team, a guy who's been around MLS circles for a while now as well. This team has the DNA of a group that goes into a building, can keep things tight, has goal scorers, danger on set pieces. What we saw against Atlanta and their ability to knock off an MLS team.

I wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't be shocked if they got a victory tonight, especially with where Sporting Kansas City sits. And Sporting Kansas City struggles with direct play and they struggle in their physical battles, especially out of the center back position, especially if Danny Rosero can't start. So right now it's Boulder and Fontas, Left-footed centerbacks two left-footed Centerbacks who sometimes lose those battles And now you're throwing Augie Williams or Williams and Sebastian Guanzotti at

Them it is the formula The question is if they put that big chance away If you could play from a lead against Sporting KC at home with the Pressure what we just talked about in the moment That is like the whole formula For getting the win here. Yeah, I agree.

I don't have any more notes on Indy 11. You took all of the ones that I wrote down. So I'm going to transition us to the other semifinal, which is Wednesday night, Seattle hosting LAFC. We just saw this game, this knockout game in the League's Cup quarterfinals where LAFC absolutely shredded the Seattle Sounders. I believe we're up to nine or ten games that Seattle have not beaten LAFC, which is a big problem. And I'm going to hit you with the sports radio topic.

Who needs this game more? Seattle to prove that they can hang with LAFC or LAFC after losing the League's Cup Final? I'm going to say Seattle. Me too. Me too. There's a pretty good chance they make no noise in the playoffs

and then you look at things over the course of what four years and you would say it would be four years combined taking out CCL play where they've had zero success in regular seasons and zero success there yeah you can't take that out. I understand that. That's fine. That's fair. But you could even go from that moment on because they didn't make the playoffs that year or they didn't win a playoff game. No one ever does when they make a CCL final. And now the crew are going to win MLS Cup and change all of that, which will be a part of their historic conversation.

And then since then, for Seattle, you've had just no success. You haven't won playoff games. You haven't made deep cup runs. You haven't made deep cup runs. You haven't won a trophy. This trophy means something to this club. Similar to SKC, who, by the way, SKC, if they win this, it would be their fifth. They would tie for first with the legendary clubs. It's like Bethlehem Steel, Maccabi, LA, clubs like that.

So that would be a huge moment for that club. Seattle are right there. Like this, this trophy created their identity. This trophy is what Freddie Montero and Ziggy Schmidt and all of them built this club on and an opportunity to beat LAFC, like you just said, and like overturn that and an opportunity to do this at home and then play in

the final and prop potentially host the final yes because if skc wins seattle and knowing they'll know that going into this game the chance to host a final at century link and blow it out and make it a big deal like they have in the past all of that and also just like to say this this group still matters because we're not far away we are a few months away from them having a bad close to the season of saying, what's the core of Seattle? And, like, is it still under Brian Schmetzer? Yeah.

I just want to tidy up the hosting priorities. Hosting priorities go LAFC, then Indy, then Seattle. So Kansas City cannot host. But, again, if LAFC win, they host. And then, as you say, if Kansas City wins on Tuesday night, the winner of LAFC and Seattle on Wednesday gets to host the U.S. Open Cup final. For LAFC, how much rotation do you think we see? I think we see a little bit, but this is a contextual question. And they were literally at B rotation by the definition of the word, I think.

But this, like, again, we've joked about Danny Bwonger being a cyborg. He doesn't need to be rotated ever. I'm assuming he's going to start. Rio came off with a knock in the League Cup Final. So I don't know if he'll be ready. But, like, two of their three center backs will be, right? Like, I assume that they're going to retain their places. And then in the midfield

if you sub if you put in lewis o'brien or tim tillman for edward atuesta like that is technically a rotation but like that's just other starting caliber players coming to the team if you start christian olivera instead of uh maddie boguch or kai kamara for druid obviously that's a drop-off but like kai kamara's been scoring goals. I think he scored against Seattle two weeks ago. In the literal sense of the word, yeah, there will be rotation, but, like, for the most part, it's going to be starting-level players coming in, and then your very most important players of, like, Danny Bawanga,

the spine defensively, probably Ryan's Hollingshead, I'd assume, is going to be able to play again as well, right? Like, you kind of go on down the list and like, yeah, there'll be rotation, but it's a lot of starting caliber players coming in. Yeah, I would expect if healthy, I'd expect to see Oliveira. I would be shocked if you saw Giroud from the start, as you mentioned. Kompos, another player we've talked about who could be a starter and a starter level quality that they could push in.

So I would go along your lines of rotation but a strong lafc group anyway from the mental point of view of like how they do it i don't know who comes out i don't know what team we're gonna see for lafc going to columbus playing in a final and then two days later traveling to seattle and trying to play in a semi-final in a big moment as well it's a tough turnaround um and it's gonna be a tough moment for this club so a really big set of games there the final as you mentioned the the hosting order it'll be on september 25th or 24th the week of that and obviously it's a midweek game as well so that's going to be really fun um going forward and i hope to be in indianapolis for that game if you want to hang out tomorrow.

You got to sign up for the Patreon. Go to SoccerWise. Become an MVP. And then you can join the private link. Private Zoom with us. To hang out and talk. Tonight as well. Canadian Championship semi-final action.

TFC hosting Forge. Trailing 2-1 against their regional rival. From the Canadian Premier League. And Vancouver hosting Pacific leading 1-0 in that one for the British Columbia rivals. For TFC, let me ask you this one. How big is this? They lose to a CPL team near their home in a year that has been up and down. And keep your head down.

Watch the drones overhead. How bad would this be? Yeah, totally agree. Again, like everything that we've said about Sporting Kansas City applies here because Toronto have had a bit of a better season, particularly against expectations like Sporting Kansas City, I think where most people had them as being much better than they are. Toronto, this was always supposed to be kind of a transitional season.

They're in the mix for the playoffs, and they're, again and they're again Vancouver Toronto and Montreal every single year should be disappointed if they don't win this trophy because there are three MLS teams so you have two other MLS teams that you need to get past for this trophy so they both of these teams should be significantly disappointed if they don't get to the final or win this and that's just kind of the blanket analysis I'm gonna have for this that like yeah, you should be expecting to win every game that you're playing in, just in general, but particularly in a cup competition against a lower division opponent. And again, I'll continue to reiterate, this is no disrespect to CPL clubs. This is no disrespect for the USL Championship clubs.

It would be really weird if Toronto was like, well, we lost to a CPL team. It is what it is. It happens, right? Like, it would be a big disappointment for toronto for vancouver and again going back to kansas city i will be rooting for forge obviously because with tom ruining my life and moving matthew schwanier to switzerland the closest i have is david schwanier uh starter for forge an older brother of Matthew Chouinard in that one. As you said, this is one that everyone should expect to win for those MLS teams. Vancouver have done it back-to-back years.

So this has taken a ton of heat off Vanni Sartini. With their struggles in MLS playoffs, which they've moved from we want to make the playoffs to we want to make a dent, they have been able to lean back on, well, a trophy this year we won a championship this could save toronto in a similar way this year where john herdman could say i won a trophy in year one we qualified for conca calf competition next year oh yeah that would be huge and obviously hamilton or excuse me forge would love to uh forge would love to make that a difference and bobby smirnionis would love nothing more than to overtake them. Last little note here, Ryan Gall called back up to the Scotland team.

I don't care that much, but it's pretty cool for Ryan Gall to have sort of followed his path, played really well, and finally gotten noticed. Yeah, what I would say is it shouldn't have taken this long since he's put up the performances he has at such a consistent level with the Vancouver Whitecaps. Like, he should have been back in the Scotland mix. But I'm really happy for the player, for the person that he is back. He was, October of 2014, he was called into Scotland's senior national team for the first time.

This was, like, prime Scottish messy talk. This was, he just made a move to sporting cp what it like this kid is is going to be the future face of scotland soccer like he's going to like we're bringing him into the national team now hey maybe he won't make it maybe he won't start maybe he won't make his debut but this is a kid like i was reading a story today from 2014 it was apparently the window or a couple windows after uh andrew robertson made his debut and now he's gone on to be one of scotland's like best ever players and then it was like all right i want to do what what robertson did and that's how we're trying to bring him along so that's how

he was viewed and he was viewed as the better player because he's a 10 and not not a left back like andy robertson is and he hasn't made his senior debut so really cool perseverance for ryan gould his career path that has taken him to where he is now with Vancouver. And he seems like a genuinely happy guy. Like there are some great quotes about, you know, he's asked a lot about like Scott. He's like, yeah, of course I'd want. He's like, he's like, honestly, I don't even think about it that much.

Like he's like, I look at international breaks and go cool. Like a couple of days off, I'm going to go surfing or whatever. Like it's really cool for him that he's going to be back. Does Ryan Gould serve? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The Scottish surfer that I didn't know. really cool for him that he's going to be back does ryan gold serve yeah yeah yeah oh yeah the scottish surfer that i didn't know uh i also had to google because when you first said october of

2014 i assumed you misspoke no and so i was going to fact check you to help you on that one help it and it was really 2014 wow that was a long time ago and he didn't make it and again he didn't make his debut like this was like i don't know man this would have been like gio reina coming through and not making his senior national team debut within the united states like that's how he was viewed with with scotland a decade ago so well done to him incredible perseverance like not every path is the same development isn't linear and i'm just really happy for ron gold that hopefully he's gonna it would be really really cruel if they call him up and do not play him in this window I would be very very upset

about that I don't I cannot possibly see that happening uh it would suck the reason I said I didn't care by the way off the start is uh I had to do a bunch of European championship previews and coverage and everything the amount of times people talk about Scotland and I believe they are the worst national team on the planet to watch play is like way too overwhelming for me and I've reached my limit on all of that and so therefore I had decided that I didn't care about this uh even though I think it's really cool for Ryan Galt a player that I really really like yeah so the smaller subset of this is this sucks for Canada like um I'm pretty sure he was getting closer to citizenship. Don't do that, Tom. Don't make Canada fans feel bad.

That came in, it was cool. When the countdown of Ryan Gall getting, he's even been asked about this, I believe. This was kind of a narrative, it was kind of a thing. And obviously him playing for Scotland would take that away. Before we finish out here, real quick, I believe the European transfer window closes on Friday. Tom, this is your beat, so therefore something else for you to stay awake for and never sleep about.

Is there anything we should keep our eyes on? Is there anything we'll be talking about Thursday or next Tuesday? Yeah, I mean, for MOS deals, it'll be, like, there's a few that I'm reporting on that. Like, there's no, like, Georgie Petrovich got moved in the last week of the transfer window last year for whatever, $19 million. Like, a level like that isn't happening. Like, the Diego Gomez deal that I've talked about has been agreed,

but, like, that's going to go through in the winter. So I don't even know if there's going to be an announcement or anything. But it doesn't have to do with the deadline because unless something's drastically changed, he's staying with Miami for the rest of the window. I will say, don't know what I'm allowed to say about this, but Friday evening, CBS Sports Glazo, my face might be around that.

And I would say to tune in around the transfer deadline. Nice. A lot to look forward to then. We've got a couple big shows coming up this week still. As I mentioned, the Private Happy Hour on Wednesday night. If you want to subscribe to our Patreon, we are going to dig into the historic NWSL CBA tomorrow with a couple of special guests. And then me and Tom will be back to recap everything that happened in the

open cup semifinals and preview a big weekend of MLS coming up. So thank you all for listening. Thank you to Bobby Warshaw. We'll talk to you all again very, very soon.