SoccerWise - MLS Soccerwise | The Top Tier vs. the Playoff Pack

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

Nashville is inching closer to the Supporters Shield, but how does the other top teams in MLS stack up? David Gass, Tom Bogert and Matt Doyle assess which teams belong among the league’s top tier and examine the teams battling for the final playoff spots, including Colorado’s struggles to turn potential into results. Plus, Columbus and Cincinnati meet for another edition of the Hell is Real Derby, this time with major playoff implications. 0:00 Intro8:37 St. Louis & Vancouver: A Playoff Preview?14:45 Miami Finding Form22:05 Eastern Conference Playoff Battles24:57 The Same Old MLS Playoff Race & Golden Boot Draft31:35 What Makes Nashville So Good?34:58 Philadelphia’s Evolution44:25 Colorado’s Promise Isn’t Translating to Results55:06 What Happened to San Diego?58:52 The East’s Playoff Race Tightens1:05:49 Hell Is Real: More Than Bragging Rights1:13:00 Playoff Comeback That Changed the Rivalry1:17:17 Cincinnati’s Rise in MLSFor the sharpest coverage of American soccer, we’ve got you covered:https://linktr.ee/soccerwisehq

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Soccer Wise, David Goss, Tommy Scoops, and Matt Doyle with you. Coming off a full midweek of action in Major League Soccer with another weekend around the corner. We are into the business end of the season. We've got a lot to talk about. We've got a lot to do. Tom, you're ecstatic right now. You are so excited to break down everything that we saw last night. Locked into the playoff race is where nobody wants to win and every conversation has been the same.

I can't wait. But you're wearing a cool bomber jacket. You look like Bob Bradley. Bob Bradley didn't have hair. Wow. Okay. Wow. Harsh.

Oh, no. Speaking of speaking of, I'm going to 30 seconds time out. My brother-in-law has been flirting with the idea of going bald. He finally pulled the trigger. And the photo that he sent me to tell me that he shaved his head for the first time, he said, hey, Tom, tell Goss and Doyle, I've joined them. Nice. Nice.

Nice. Yeah. Is this the one who went to the Inter-M Miami game yesterday? Yeah, they were basically like first row behind, probably not the Miami-supporting, whatever the opposite end is. It was pretty cool. It's a photo.

And the text you said was everything at the stadium is named after Messi. It is a tribute band. I think I was told by someone that Messy's brand runs the hamburger patties in the stadium. It's his water. It's the messy stand. Like, yeah, you are in Messi World, which is why he's not going to build his own amusement park, Dolly Parton style, because he has one.

It's called New Stadium. And it honors him for the rest of his life. But welcome to the club. We appreciate you being here. Tom, I'll flip back and say I was talking to someone who I got a drink with, Gregory, our editor and producer here, who lives in the D.C. area where I'm staying right now. And when he told his son, who is a big soccer fan, that he was going to be meeting someone from work background, he asked, who, Tommy Scoops.

Legendary name. At least he didn't tell me he liked my substack or whatever. Could be worse. Could be confused for Doyle. And Mr. Matt Doyle is here. Tactics Free Zone. Of course, you should subscribe if you don't on Ghost and whatever else Doyle wants to talk about.

No, that's it. Well, I am... I actually did a couple of subscriptions of my own the past couple of days. First of all, shout out to John Martha Aller, who covers Minnesota United. He does a fantastic job. He's gone independent recently.

So if you're a Loon's fan, he's a great guy to follow on social. But then in preparation for like tonight is one of the biggest nights of the year for the three of us on this show and for our entire extended friend group. Because tonight is our NBA fantasy draft. So I subscribe to a couple of substacks and a couple of other newsletters of my own in preparation. I have finished in the playoffs. I've never done fantasy sports my entire life until the past couple of years. Yeah, right.

In the playoffs, the past couple years, but not have not made it particularly far, but like I'm putting my shoulder into it a little bit this year and hoping for a better outcome. Okay. I think I've dominated for the most part at the top. So it's pretty easy.

It's not that hard. No, it's very clearly. if you get one of the top three picks, then you're going to make it to the semifinals. If you have, if you have Wembe, Joker or Shea, then you're going to make it.

Which is why what Leon Rose did is so impressive because to do, to build a championship team without a line. He, honestly, he followed Brad Stevens. Really? I thought Tatum Brown were top three picks.

In the way that he was able to build a championship winning team around a guy who's not actually like a super alpha player in this league. I think Jalen Brunson is probably like a 2A tier player. I think Tom must agree with that, right? He co-signed the New York Times article that that listed. I almost resigned. I almost resigned a disgrace when I saw that. Can I keep us off the rails here for a moment?

I can unite us with there's no shot Andrew Weeby shows up to this draft. Yeah, 100%. Well, that's fine. But like if we auto draft it for him, he'll be in there by. the second week being like talking shit about his team especially anders supposedly randomizes the the order of the draft he just so happens to have gotten the top three pick the past three years uh if if weby ends up with like a top three pick and auto drafts it weby will be in there talking shit all year long about how great his team he's going to take andrew wiggins with the top

pick because his auto draft is just going to be k you guys okay you go he literally plays for league pass to watch hornets backup players because they went to KU and then goes, I don't know why people love the NBA so much. Because maybe we don't watch the worst players of the league of purpose. Here's my off the rails thing for one moment. I met this guy. My sister's best friend's dad was a sports writer in Boston for a long time. He's covered a bunch of World Cups.

His name is Mark Starr. And he was in the original fantasy baseball draft like league because it was like handwritten and it was AL only like in the 1980s or 70s. I don't even know. and then it expanded to the NL as like a separate, like they only played inside of one week. The league that I'm in that I care most about, that it started in, I believe, the late 70s.

With my dad and his friends, they wrote it down. They literally had somebody designate to mail the, mail each other, the standings at the end of every month. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's an analog life.

That's what men were men. Yeah. Pencil by pen. council. Okay, well, speaking of any of the stuff I just said. Everybody who's plus 15 plus 15 plus 15. We're back. We're back. We're talking to soccer now. St. Louis, Philly, Toronto Red Bulls is getting the buzzwords in so that you know they just stop fast forwarding. And if you're not plus 15, you're one of us. We are going to be at Land Grant Bar next Tuesday in Columbus, Ohio to hang out pre-open

Cup final. So if you are a Columbus, St. Louis fan, or for any other reason in the Columbus area, we will be there, we will be hanging out. We're not doing a show. We just wanted to meet fans and sort of celebrate. We did this around the Cockcalf Champions League final in 2021 in Seattle, which is there's nothing better than a final. So we just wanted to help fans get excited for it and we want to meet people. We were lucky enough myself and Tom to be at Land Grant.

Two years ago now at the All-Star game, we did a live show there and awesome spot. Big soccer place. They hosted a viewing party for the U.S. Women's National Team Game. on Tuesday night, well connected to the Columbus crew. They have a crew themed beer, and they are named after the land grant that created Ohio State University. So they're also Buckeyes fans, and don't worry, Joel. So we'll have the Ohio State University. They'll probably be re-showing a spring league scrimmage that you can really dig into on a back TV while we're getting ready.

But all three of us will be on the ground. Tom will be Big J at the game, but me and Doyle are going to hang out for the game as well. So any pregame festivities, let us know we're going to wander around, go to the stadium and I think based off last night I'm as excited as I've been for this game. Columbus are playing the best soccer they've played all year. They're fun. They're entertaining. Taha, Brunus a stud. And St. Louis are the show right now. And we have obviously the Yohan DeMay element. It's going to be a great final. So we're going to preview it for you on the show on Monday. We're going to do some content on the ground with Columbus on Tuesday that we're going to be

using over the course of the end of the year. We're going to have some really great interviews, some some big sit downs with a lot of the decision makers around the crew about what they've built and all the nerdy stuff we want to talk about in terms of rosters and future of soccer and what the club means to the city and everything else and then we're going to get to hang out so if you are in the area if you know anyone who's in the area please send it along that we will be be there we're going to work up some some promotional stuff that we'll put out on socials as well but uh it's just a chance to hang out and talk ball or talk whatever else you can figure out tom and doyle enjoy starting with fantasy baseball or basketball.

That brings us into the games from last night. It was a wild night of games. We have a pretty big separation right now. We've got the top and we've got the bottom. So we're going to start on the top. History was made once again across the board as Nashville edges a little bit closer to clinching the supporter shield. And then we'll talk about the bottom side,

which those six-pointers, those playoff races, they all transfer straight on to Saturday and Sunday because all these teams are back on the field against each other. and let's start with the dominance at the top of the table. Doyle, the game we all had circled with St. Louis, Vancouver. Yeah. It ends zero zero because of course it does, but that's not indicative of the experience of this game,

which was like on hair on fire. Yeah, this was a, this was a playoff game. And I was happy to see it because the last time these two teams met, and this is one and two in the Western Conference, St. Louis steamrolled Vancouver, the last time these two teams played. And I wanted to see what version of, of Vancouver showed up in this game.

And that's been the big question this whole second half of the season, is can the caps kind of rediscover who they were back in the spring? And the answer had mostly been no. But then it felt last night like the answer was yes, even without Thomas Mueller, who, you know, is like they're very clearly slow playing his return to health with the idea of getting him 100% for the playoffs. and it just ended up being an awesome game. You know, Vancouver were brave against that St. Louis press.

I thought they controlled the first half. They had definitely the best chance of the first half, maybe the best two chances. Second half was much more even. There were some physical challenges. I know that St. Louis fans are really upset about Conrad Volum. He, you know, he had to be subbed out after, in my eyes, it was a 50-50 between him and Al,

and Johnson, the left back for... It was wild that he stayed on the field. He was pretty clearly concussed. And he came off a few minutes later. Yeah, but they did the full rap, played and they came off. Yeah, and but like it was, and I feel bad, right? You never want to see a player get hurt, but I didn't think it was dirty. And I, like, the play right before that, like, Timo Baumgartle, like, swept the leg on Eddie

El Campo and, like, it was a hard play. it was a playoff level intensity type of play. I didn't think either of those moments were dirty. And I think what we ended up getting was a nil-nill-nill that could have been a two-two between two teams that you're going to be the last two teams standing in the Western Conference. To me, it's just like they're the spurs and the thunder and everybody else is going to be chaff. Playoff atmosphere, playoff environment is absolutely what it felt like on the field in the stands, in the physicality and in the seriousness of the way the.

both teams played and defended, right? Like up until the last second, I meant to mention this. Like Ryan Gould making an 80-yard sprint on the last play of the game. To break up a giving go in the box, like put his full body on the line. And he played that way the whole game. Working class MVP. That, that, that's it was, it's, it's, it's been so long since, um, you felt safe about, hey, he's going to have a run of games to be really good.

And he has this summer. Um, so it's almost. because like you get hurt from how much we rate this player and how much joy he can bring. But you don't want to from last year, it was, he'll be back in April. He'll be back for the 75th. Okay, no, he'll be back for the second. Okay, no, he'll be back for the final. No, he'll be back for this.

And then he just kind of wasn't. And then you kind of have to put him off to the side. And it's like, just what a joyful player. You look at the other 14 games of the night, besides Nashville, a sea, which are an absolute wagon and a few other performances, there's just so much unserious. defending or unsurious moments in games that watching this game really got me juiced for the playoffs and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel

in so far that like the playoffs are about a month away a little bit long I forget exactly which day the the wildcard round decision day is like November 7th I think and then the then the international break and then into the playoffs which I know that the playoffs change every year and literally will again because the league is changing this is my favorite format in in terms of timing that you get to decompress from decision day and everything that comes with everything from the season to really put it together and then build towards the playoffs. This felt like a

playoff game and it reminded me how close we are to the playoffs and this is when teams are supposed to be turning it on. But as you said, Doyle, it is so very clear that in the Western Conference right now it is these two teams the next year there is nobody in the next year. Like as they're so head and shoulders above the others that it's like tier A, these two teams, nobody in Tier B. And then you can talk about other like long shot contenders yeah it's what it felt like and part of it is the quality most of it is the the commitment and execution that you see from these teams on what they're doing and um credit to to yesper sorens because we went into this game you're like can anybody slow down uh st louis they scored 33 goals over their previous 11 games i think they had scored

12 over their previous three and they shut them out and in part it's because yesper sorenson continues to be a genius. In this one, he had Ali LaRaz sort of like pseudo-man marking Alexandria Matan. And then so when that happens, Matan can't really dictate the game. And he's been doing that at a super high level. Well, okay, Hafer Navarro is dropping in deep.

They were passing him off perfectly between a makeshift central defense of Laborda and Priso who don't start together all that often. Their mobility was actually an asset. in this one. And then, of course, Kubas in front of them. It was, we watched this game. I think all three of us probably watched, you know, most of this game last night.

And just watching it. I was like, who else can hit this level? And that's how we did the run. And he pulled back the curtain. That's how we did the rundown. We're like, well, let's start with the teams that are actual contenders. And obviously it's Nashville to the point where it's not even worth talking about what Nashville did to the sporting Kansas.

city last night like that was belt to ass for 90 minutes Nashville are so good and I will just say on a longer timeline there was some concern that maybe the underlying numbers for Nashville were sounding red flags their underlying numbers are starting to align with the box score numbers and obviously with the results and then it's like okay do we believe that philly and chicago are there I I've said my piece on Chicago I don't you know I don't think they're going to be able to get there. I mean, if they could keep 11 players on the field for half of a game, it would help. It would be wild.

But I do think Philly can get there. And then the other thing that's been lurking, we saw Miami flip the switch this time last year. Like, it sure looks like they flipped the switch again. Do you think really like that's, that's all it took was a home win against NYCFC who we've just been absolutely bearing and you've buried Goss every time that we mentioned him? That was it. A Wednesday night against NYCFC did it. So it's their second straight win, right? They won four nil this this past weekend over a DC United team. That is actually tough to be.

Okay. Like I'm pissed at the Red Bulls for for not eliminating DC United last night because I don't like watching them. But they had what? Like four losses in 22 games heading into the weekend and Miami buried them. And then they turn around and they win at home again against NYCFCF. see like okay they're starting to exercise some demons so i think it's like okay they're winning but also they have mikhail back they've settled in with a central defensive pairing that well we all think casamero is better in central midfield playing him and mikhail together in the central defense

that's probably going to be pretty good especially with it be good against nashville well we'll find out, but like the other shit that they were thrown against Nashville didn't work. So like might as well try to have 60% of the ball. And like the other aspect of it is I think there was a like a letdown collectively. And like they were a little bit lost after the World Cup because of all the messy festivities that culminated with the sendoff game, the farewell testimonial that he had two weeks ago. And now with that like, okay. they're back to business and they've won two straight games and we've seen them do it at this time

a year like we know like this is a team that knows how to win these are players who have made a career of winning at the highest level and I just can't bring myself to like no matter what happens we go into the playoffs unless messy is hurt I am going to have Miami in that top tier I will say I don't trust the flip of switch from last year of like now they're going to shut everyone out but I do still trust the if there is a breath left in messy and you give him a shot, this team's good enough to get over Humps.

Whether it's 5, 4, 3, 2, or whatever it is, this team is not shown that they're so bad that that can't still happen. And that's literally what the World Cup semifinal was. And that's the Switzerland game. Like that's who he is. And I think the question is, is the pieces around him bad enough

to make it not possible? And I think what we're seeing, is they're not now. I think Regulone being healthy is like a huge piece. Is he going to stay healthy? Who the hell knows? But like any goal Bertrami scores is a miracle for them. It gets him confident and gets him feeling more comfortable than it makes them infinitely

better because they're not going to not play him. Like they're stuck with that situation. So I think some of that stuff you can feel pretty positive about. Can it beat Nashville? Probably not, Tom, but like isn't the point? No one? Like they're going to set the points record. So the idea would be no one can beat them unless you do something different.

But I think Miami will have a certain level of confidence. We went through a lot of the teams there. I want to go back and just mention Cardiff City has to be hot on Ali LaRaz's tail. He's the next step, Burrhalter. Get hyped. It wasn't just a defensive. He's been awesome in possession. I've loved Ali Laraz since day one.

And I'm so excited that he's in Vancouver. And for any young player who's not getting a chance the way they think they should and wants to be on the ball, call Vancouver. See what's available. See if there's a spot available because they continue to churn these players out, even though I have to take my Miacolpa on Matan once again and St. Louis. Just to know if Volum and Durkin are out,

both of the players who went out with head injuries in this game are out for the U.S. Open Cup final. It's massive for this team. Volum's like essential to the way they attack, to the space they fill, the ability for Holmah to go and find the game wherever here. he wants and the pressure that he puts on teams down the right wing like he's been one of the best performers on this team over the course of this run so that would be a huge loss for this group

if he's unavailable and then dirken obviously doyle has gone on and on about what he brings and the way he affects this team and has been at the core of things and then a reminder that hafa navajo is cap tied for the open cup final so even if it's not like for like it's just one piece down from your best 11 for the biggest game of the season so far which will be that Open Cup final. This game set the record, right? Because St. Louis

tied it last game for unbeaten run for an MLS team post shootout in MLS history across all competitions. So 21 games. It tied the record. You're such a nerd. And he goes, I've never played fantasy sports before. He was just building his

own paper, handwritten MLS fantasy lineups. Like for those who don't know, back at the start, back at the dawn of time when MLS first started, we didn't have ties. Games would go to shootouts. So you'd get three points for a win. I said pull shootout error, by the way. Yeah, I know. But three points for a win, none for a loss.

And then it would go to shootout. And if you won the shootout, I think you would get two points. One or two points and then none for a shootout loss. So there were no ties. And a lot of us who were around then, well, first of all, everybody hated it. But then a lot of us who are around then, like, we kept our record book to say, okay, if it goes to a shootout, that's just a tie. Like that does not count as a loss.

It should not count as a loss historically. And DC United, who I hated, right, because I was a Metro Starz fan back in the day, 96, 97, they had a 21 match unbeat and run that doesn't count, according to MLS, because they had like two shootout losses during that span. Today those would be ties. So it would be a 21 match unbeaten run. That's where St. Louis are now. They have one more game to break the record.

Okay. As a deep cut Atlanta, Atlantic Cup person, how much do you hate having both matchups be a Wednesday game this year? It was brutal. Yeah, I mean, like the, The Hudson River Derby has completely surpassed the Atlantic Cup in terms of juice and importance, but all of it is sort of denuded by the way that DC United and Red Bull are run, right? It doesn't feel like an important game.

Like, I wanted Red Bulls to win last night just because I'm tired of watching this joyless, you know, anti-socker that DC United play. That said, they actually, for the first half, they actually, played some pretty good soccer on that one. They started Avules, their 16-year-old homegrown star, who had a hand in both goals. It was one of the best performances

for about 30 minutes that DC have put out this season. That said, like the fact that they're still in the playoff race and like, what, they're three points behind the playing spot. Correct.

Like soul crushing, man. With a game in hand on the Red Bulls too. I put it. So I put it. into the group chat. Nobody answered it last night. I put into the group chat. Like,

do we want, do we want like Sinci and Orlando and the Red Bulls to win just to end this, this playoff race? You want the race? I always want the race. The Tampa Bay race? Yeah. It's always fun.

It's like the whole freaking point. I was telling you guys, my TFC chat was buzzing yesterday. It started buzzing around the Montreal game. probably the first time in two years that it's been that it's had a little bit of juice and it's not just like oh we signed just sergeant we finally got it over line because some of that stuff also like the sergeant stuff was so painful how long it took and the way it went about that I don't think TFC fans were like oh this is less embarrassing we spend big money on this guy it like kind of like fed back into that um dorsh looks really good but just like the goal every goal mattered over the last seven days for TFCs. fans, every goal has mattered. It's the same for DC. It's the same for Red Bulls. It's the same somehow for NCFC.

And then you go to the West, similar as well. You line up this weekend. We're going to talk hell is real. It's the Sunday night soccer game. It is four point gap between Columbus and Cincinnati in a rivalry game. Like, what else could you ask for in a season? Is it impressive? No.

But like, what else could you ask for at this point? and Portland LA Galaxy killed this a little bit for me because it felt like Portland went out and rolled over in that game when I was like all hyped up about it. But some of these other games had juice because these teams still have something to play for and there's still something on the line. Fair.

You got me back in. And for my cynicism, I will not feel this as we get closer to decision day. It's the like August 5th, the same conversation I'm going to October 15th. We had on August 15th. We had on August 30th. Yeah.

We had on September 50. And it's the same freaking teams in the same freaking spots. Oh, look, the Galaxy in Portland have maybe they played seven times this year. I don't know. Like a game of that magnitude or of those, that like region, I feel like we've seen it so many times. And it felt more like the Galaxy Timbers last night. But it will feel different. So we get the decision day for me.

So let me ask. Sorry, gosh. My thing is just that because all these teams are dropping so many points. And that's by nature. If you're around the playoff line, you're not a top end and you're going to be in the instance. You're going to drop points.

But because these teams have dropped so many points, while these games, obviously all the goals matter to your point cost. But in the other way, they kind of don't because, like, if you lose, the other teams are all losing too and you'll still have a chance

to the week after. And, like, I've, I used to make fun of, a scenario for like, I was like, hey, man, like, when, like, when you started the athletic, do you, is that when you automatically have to hate MLS? Or like,

you're your life. So I'm trying to be careful not to do that. And it's, but it just feels like we're doing the same thing. And there isn't jeopardy because nobody's pulling away. And I don't know if that's abnormal to this season or not, probably isn't, but that's just kind of how it felt.

And maybe because of the, the even increased fixture congestion following the World Cup and the breaks they're in that when we're, when we're a little bit less congested and like open cup finals, I can't wait for on Wednesday. And as we get towards the end, it really is no, no, no, important that if you lose,

there's no more chances. Like you're out. Right. I think it is tough that we always say a point in April is the same as a point in October and like this thing's going to come down to two points for a lot of teams. Yeah. But it's tough then to know that the two points happened when half, you know, 10 players were away for international break or it was midweek with Open Cup as well on the following week or it was midweek with World Cup players out. Pets are Mooses in Croatia. Now Dallas misses out on the fourth spot by one, two points, moves and misses two games just because of that, not because of injury. Like, I can understand that.

I think that part is hard of, like, you're trying to value every point, but then almost the competition at times doesn't. I don't know if the schedule flip will change this. I don't know if conference realignment into divisions would change this. I mean, every game in the SEC is big. So maybe if they just focus on conference realignment, there's an opportunity there. I mean, a very obvious answer would be the Apertura Klausura, which is why I love that people are saying Andre Luis is the closer MVP.

Because like, are you referring to yourself in the third person? I actually had never said that. Someone said it to me this weekend, and I liked it because it fits all my narratives all at the same time. But like that's the thing in Mexico is season starts. And if you're not in a playoff spot, the emergency starts immediately. And then if you are bad, it's over.

You're on to the next one. But then there's always another championship around the corner, for sure. Another playoff raise. Well, Tom, I mean, time just marches on

and we all die. So at some point, at some point, we are going to get to the conclusion that you've been looking for. Sweet release. Only death can provide.

The other interesting part I hadn't really thought about with Habitatur Closura that is unique is there is no transfer window inside of a season. You kind of play with the team you started with

because that's the sprint season, which I hadn't really processed. Like, your team will be done in January, your roster in theory. The aim is. The hope is. and then it will run until the summer, which will be MLS cut.

So there won't be like, when I was thinking about this because I was like, oh, when we do the golden boot draft for this, it won't be Tom's picking Portland's DP number nine that will come halfway through the season. And it won't be Antoine Grisman shows up in the middle of the year. Like there's just going to be one window, one roster. You build your team and you play through the whole thing, which is different than anything we've ever seen.

Me and, uh, Kay, and I are, our partner, Chris Winning. him who was a proxy for the draft. He wanted to, he asked me separately, when are we going to do a golden boot draft update on the show? Case you guys were curious. Going into last night because the app hasn't updated. Weeby last 81 goals. Goss second of last, 93 goals.

Doyle, third to last, 101 goals. Tom Caitlin Whitty, first, 120 before last night started. Case anyone was curious. Dan Kaye scored, Bwanga had a brace. Damiani had a brace. Hermann Burturama. I scored. So I'm going to imagine that the lead extended. Can you give me a assist on that? Goals per 90. I am running away. I am over 0.5 goals per 90. Just like in terms of efficiency,

which is really what this is all about. Once again, your golden boot champion. Listen, we're cruising. This would be my third title and my four opportunities. I'm kidding. You're getting, you're, you're, you're getting, you're, excuses are getting worse and worse as the years go on. So I'm looking forward to what you'll say next year. Can I just get the assist numbers on this? I lost it. Were we doing the, the, uh, the golden assist?

I'm just saying, I think one of us respects teamwork, cooperation, vibes, energy, and the rest of us are pure, selfish goals. I mean, I'm a, I'm a goal score. That's why I'm leading the golden boot race in terms of goals per 90. Listen, we're, so the committee is, the committee might have to break up me and at some point because it's just dynasty. I think it's fine, Tom. Once you had the fourth person next year as your

co-managers. Did you want me to do the gold boot trap seven days after having a child? I mean, that's the grind, right? I want Theo to know that his dad ran. Ran from the pressure when he was down. Can I, could I read, we're talking about

parented. I played men's league soccer last night. Somebody, one of, I'm not going to name him. One of our, one of our guys played last night. I wasn't going to ask him because he had kid literal days ago. And he called me. He goes, hey, man, I've just been lounging around. I want to get a workout in. And I was like, do you meet, you mean like with your newborn? He goes, yeah, like, what times the game tonight? I was like, if you want to play, you can play. But like, don't get divorced over. Don't feel like you have to. And then somebody else in the chat said

that nobody loves abandoning their newborn kids, like people on this team. We got great wives. Yeah. That's a little dark. All right. But did you guys get the win? is the real question. No, he didn't. Oh, wow. Let me take us back to Nashville. There were one win from clinching the shield.

They could have done it last night if some of the results had fallen their way. They did not. They are still on pace to set the points record. They do not seem to be slowing down. Here's an interesting one. We have a partnership with gradient FC that we can get some data from. Well, Ledzi and Palacios are both top 18 in sprint speed. in major league soccer.

Wow. They're like the only team that has two guys in the top 20 and they're their starting centerbacks. That doesn't go on the fact that they can both play in possession, triple-class guys. So, I mean, and that is the secret sauce. Right. Like this team can come up and press you

because they have two centerbacks who cover in behind and they'll release both fullbacks at the same time. And both fullbacks are really impactful attacking assets. But then they're also tough to press. because that entire back four is so comfortable with the ball on their foot. Like they just have answers for everything. And B.J. Callahan's really, really good tactically about finding those answers in the moment. And then they have match winners, you know.

And Hanimuktar is obviously as high a level match winner as there is in this league, the non-messy tier. And then like the only like the only variable for Nashville feels like is, will Sam Serge go into a slump? I think Serge, but if you look at his goal told, obviously he's one of the best number nine's in the league, but he does go a little bit cold at times. And if he goes cold in the playoffs,

then this team could end up being vulnerable, but it's tough to pick against them, man. Like they're really, really, really good in a lot of different ways. It feels like Saad has bunted a little bit of that because it's another guy who can be more of a finisher. If Serge does go cold and in all of that, Espinoes has been more a creator, but can be a goal score.

So it just feels like there's more safety, I guess I would say, for this group. But yeah, they're impressive. Did you guys have free Baker Whiting on your 22? I did, yeah. I did, yeah. Like what, 15 to 22 somewhere in that? Yeah, in that range.

The only thing I would say. Would look out on the Seattle team. Huh? Yeah. especially after knew who broke his hand. The only thing I will say about Nashville is when you do press them, they kind of have to play over it, or like long ball to surge or they have to play through it.

What they're not great at is getting runners in behind. Exod doesn't stretch the field like that. Hani is great on the break, but as almost like a secondary break type of guy, not like running in, and obviously Espinoza, not his game either. So if there is,

he can though, is, is what I'd add and maybe that could be a point of emphasis. I think it's like they're a minus to a plus across the board on like everything else. On this, they're like a B minus, right? So if you're looking at something to pick at, that would be it.

But they just keep showing game after game after game that they're it, man. They're legit as hell. Philly are showing the same thing. So, like, I made my case for Vancouver, St. Louis, Nashville, and Miami being in that top tier. Do we have Philly there? Here's my question. And I think I know the answer.

What about Philly this year is different than Philly playoffs other years? They have the second best playmaker in the league. They have the second best goal scorer in the league. league in terms of per minute milan eloski is only like he might be ahead of messy this year um and they are better team on set pieces which they've always been good at because they have a power forward starting at centerback like yeah i mean the other two things Julian Caranza in his good years they've had obviously they've had glessness and now you know the spider man pointing meme yeah isn't that Julian Caranza and bruno damiani yeah yeah

Yeah, but well, yeah, although maybe it just took years for me to trust Karan some more once he did it for Philly for a little bit. But Kavana feels like the difference. That's the question. So it's like, does Philly run up into the wall they run up into, which is when teams purposely playing away so that you can't press them into mistakes and they make the game hard for you in the playoffs? And you're the, especially if they keep winning, you're the home team and the game expectations are on your shoulders. Where can you create chances? and I so it's like it's not that I don't trust this Philly group

it's that I've seen Philly in the playoffs five times and it doesn't normally work at when everyone's at their best Kevin and maybe Quinn could be the difference this time that elevates them into a different category. A lot of cabin stuff though comes in semi-transition or transition moments what it looks like against a set defense in a playoff game you know that's like a different challenge that We haven't seen him have to deal with so far.

I think that's fair to bring up. And that is the case against the Philadelphia Union because on the face of things in terms of form, performance, underlying, I test, basic box score, like all of that puts them in the category of contenders. For sure, behind Nashville because I don't think anybody should be with Nashville. And, again, it's a fair point to, you know, hey, Miami has messy if they lose their last five games going to the playoffs. You're still going to be scared of them. I still think they just give natural respect that they should have their own tier, but that's splitting hairs. And then Miami and then I think Philly, Philly is in there. And I think that

they are a serious threat. But as you said, we've seen this style. There are some little tweaks and it has more to do with individuals, as you said, with Kavanaugh and in particular. Milano Laskie, I think, is a more reliable center forward than they've had in the past. Kai Wagner is as good as he's ever been. He's not missed a single step after a going to Birmingham City for a six-month sojourn. Neil Pierre could be obviously a unique threat on set pieces, but the other side of that, he's an 18-year-old centerback. There can be mistakes or will be mistakes.

Of course there will be. Unique threat, I think, yes, he's special. But, like, again, this is a club that's had monsters at centerback and has been good on set pieces. Not like this. Center Mids for years. No one's like him, but it doesn't mean that that hasn't been a threat for them for years. Yeah, no, I get.

your point but um yeah i i still believe that they're there and and maybe that's me just being more forgiving because i thought that they were there in other years and and and you could probably go as covid was a crazy year they lost half their team going like they've had some weird playoff scenarios right um my my question of you guys is that so they play home charlotte home revs at nashville yeah i've national it depends on where they are with the record but like they'll they'll have the shield they have the shield it's done but like it'll be mathematically done by then that'll be their first home game from winning the shield so that'll be a cool scenario i hope that we get a like vancouver st louis type of energy feel to that game and we might not because

national effectively don't have anything to play for and they're a professional team they'll be there i think it'll be the biggest game rest left of the regular season for nashville because it will be let's put them in their place let's make sure everyone knows we stand alone and as you said it'll be their first game like they'll they'll do something with the shield it before that game and and and there will be plenty of time obviously into the playoff starts you don't have to worry about like all right if we go crazy full tilled here like what's the point like so there's at least a little bit of room before the end of the season because they'll have two games beyond that but um i don't know man i'm super excited for that the way that you you phrase it as as the best regular season game remaining i mean i i hope that we see a

preview of a potential conference semifinal or conference final um so i just pulled some of the numbers while you were going through that. And I, there are subtle differences between what we've seen now from the union over the past couple of months compared to obviously the first half of the year and last year. Yeah, a few. And last year. And it's not just personnel.

It's passes per possession. They're up about 15% compared to last year. And it goes up even higher once they get to the final third. And we saw that on the, the second goal last night that they scored, maybe it was the first. The Damiani one with that incredible touch to the back post. Like that was a chance that they built out of possession in the attacking third.

They've been doing that more and more often. I know it was in 10 man Chicago. No, also it started with a long switch. Kevin knocks it down. But you are right. It was in possession. It was in the attacking half. Yeah.

So like there are. about 15% fewer passes forward. Like it's just like last year like everything they did was like straight ahead and they're going to just run into that wall until the wall. And this if you look at their numbers, they're still at or near the top of all the indicators of like are you a direct pressing team? Like yes, they are still a direct pressing team. But they've added layers of nuance into that.

And I think that's what we've seen over what is now an 8. game winning streak and unbefeated run since the World Cup break. I think in the post-shooteout era, there's only been two nine game winning streaks. Nobody's ever had a 10-game winning streak. And obviously, the union want to get into that top four. They want to have home field advantage in that first round. So like every game comes.

I have them in that top tier, right? We've been talking about this all year long. Like, who are the interstellar contenders? Vancouver is still there for me. St. Louis have pushed their way in, unquestionably. Miami, like I said, I can't take him out. Nashville are obviously there. I think Philly's in that tier.

And that is like if you gave me that group versus the field, I am taking that group to win MLS Cup. And I would be zero percent surprised if Philly beat Nashville two weeks from now. And then if they match up in the playoffs, if Philly find a way to get through that. and actually eliminate Nashville. I didn't win MLS Cup. I think it's on the table in a way that it has not actually been since 2022.

Yep. For all the Chicago fans out there banging their head against the table, we can't explain why you keep getting first half red cards. Jack Elliott got two yellow cards in four minutes in this game. He gets a yellow card. They scored a goal. Chicago went up one zero in between. And the second yellow card,

it's like not really an emergency moment. you basically just need to bump the attacking player when you turn at midfield to slow them a little. Jack Elliott reaches around, grabs the jersey. And then as he turns to run, holds it. And then after it gets the yellow card, walks by and just turns to the ref and says, what are you doing, ref?

It's like, I don't think he's the one who has to answer that question on this one. And it's just like wild. Like Jack Elliott's brought in to be a veteran presence and to help stabilize things. And he did. He did last year, right? He was really, really good last year.

This year he's just been kind of up and down. And part of that's inbo-kaze coming in and out, right? But he's supposed to make life easier for his partner, not have his partner save him and make life easier for him. And then on the, so then he goes out, and then they sub-out a DP attacker to fill in for him because he has not played up to that level at all. And that's the other issue with Chicago is.

The attack does not seem as diversified as it could be. with the options that they have in there. It is why Chicago is not right now in this conversation that we are having because they have not been able to put themselves in that space. They play the revs this weekend. So Jack Elliott now is suspended for two games, one for yellow card accumulation and the second for the red card. I thought those things overlapped.

Yeah. I thought so, and I actually, as someone who loves to pick up yellow card, actually appreciate that it doesn't because you shouldn't get out of jail free on the yellow card accumulation because you were so dumb, that you got two in one game. That part's not fair, so I think it makes sense that it doesn't. But let's dig into the bottom half of this group, and let's talk, drive to the playoffs. This presents by Continental Tire, a longtime partner and supporter of MLS and American

soccer, and we have a list of six-pointers coming up this weekend. Let's start in the West. We have Colorado versus Portland with five points between them after Portland came off the two-zero loss to the LA Galaxy. The Colorado Rapids will be without Abu Farkey for this game because he picked up a red card after being on the field for seven minutes, I think it was. On Wednesday, Michael Boxall going down to the ground with him off the field. Abu Farkey, listen, softest red card.

To call that dangerous play is embarrassing for the sport in the game. That's the stuff that gets memed where it's like, oh, this is dangerous. He slightly tickles his nose. understand you can't put your hands to the face of an opponent, but we got to get a better phrase than that. It cannot be called dangerous play, which is what the referee called it. But Doyle dropped points for Colorado once again. So now they're the last team in the playoffs. And you threw in some quotes about this group. Yeah, from our friends at Burgundy Wave, you know, Porig Smith, the CSO back in August said, we'll be bold, we're going to be forceful.

and what we do here, he said that in the midst of selling Haffa Navajo and obviously a couple months after having sold Lucas Harrington, but making other moves as well. And Morgan Whitaker was one of those big sightings, and he delivered the back pass that led to, I think, the first Minnesota goal. And the other big signing was Abu Farkey, who got that red card. And they drew 2-2 at home against a Minnesota team that I've had 30th in the power rankings for the past couple of weeks.

I think they have one win since May. Brutal. And you look at what, you know, Raffa Navarro has done for St. Louis. He has 10 goal contributions in seven games. It's tough right now for Rapids fans because I think there was a time early in the season and even in the middle of the season where it felt like they were really on the right track and that they were figure they had figured out who they were and how they wanted to

play and they weren't going to um they weren't going to shoot themselves in the foot but they have continually shot themselves in the foot since then now they're ninth in the in the western conference they do have a five point gap over teams like portland san diego and rsl who cannot not win soccer games. So I think Colorado's in, but they don't, like they had, they just have not gotten better. I had higher hopes. I think they're, yeah, I think they're a worst team than they were in April. The hard part is they're entertaining.

Like when I pick games in the evening, I enjoy watching Colorado. There's a lot of speed to the play. There's, it comes from left to right. It feels like there's decent connection. Darren Yappi's goal was phenomenal. And like you see the energy, Paxon Aronson, hyped about everything that's going on. And yet very little of it leads to results.

And that's the part that I can fully understand. And that's frustrating. If I want, when I watch them, I don't think this is a ninth place team. And yet this is where they sit in the standings. I like them better than the galaxy who are. Yeah, 100%. Not saying much.

Right. Exactly. Like you said, Tom, you had higher hopes. I had higher hopes. And there's a few things. I will say they were, they were bold in the summer in some of the editions. It hasn't made them a better team yet, which is obviously the point we're making here.

And what I will say is for fans, I'm really curious to see what Hoffa Navajo's new contract looks like. If it's something that's reasonable and the Colorado Rapids sources say they made what would be the highest contract offer in club history, again, that's also not saying that much. They're not they're not a team that hands out gigantic contracts. I don't doubt that they tried. I don't doubt that they tried really hard. But St. Louis also is known for handing out huge contracts. I'm very, very, very curious to see what that number is going to end up at. Because there isn't, the way Navajo is playing for St. Louis,

there is not anything that's going to look like an overpay. But there is going to be a range where I'm like, I get it. For the Colorado Rapids, maybe it doesn't make sense. Even if you just got $17 million for Lucas Huntington and everything else. There is still a world in which, so they wouldn't be able to sign, or they could sign Abu Farkey, but that would be weird to spend that money if they did, were able to re-sign

Hofferville. Really bold from ownership would have been, let's pay him and whatever it takes, and then also, here's $10 million to go sign a DP winner, because they would have had the salary cap flexibility, the roster flexibility to do so. I expected more from this team. I really like Lloyd Williams.

I think that was an excellent signing. He was meant to be the Lucas Harrington replacement. They wanted him in January to play with them for a bit. They played a handful of games together, whatever. this is a team that there are last night was crazy right right that I don't even know what what planet was he on but this is a team that should be confident defensively both in the personnel but also the way they play they listen to Matt Wells at every turn he says we we dominate games we want to dominate games in every fast at control control control control they drop too many points from winning positions to talk about control they've dropped 17 points from winning positions in MLS this year that is seventh worst in the league this is a team though if if if you take it from leading after the 60th minute, they've dropped 12 points. That's great.

That is unacceptable for this team. The other's like, it's funny, the two teams ahead of them, we're NYCFC and into Miami. But like, this is a team that like should be, should be holding on to leads.

Like that. Especially at altitude, man. They should be using that altitude against everybody who comes into Dick Sporting. It's, it's a weird team. And, well,

I say it every, every episode. I like the tactical approach that Matt Wells has. I just don't understand the personnel he's married it to because he wants control, he says, but then he puts a lot of guys out there who can't actually pass the ball. And so you're not going to have control. You're going to leave yourself open for turnovers that lead to runouts,

that lead to late goals and drop points, especially at home. On the salary side, Tom, like how much does the transfer fee go into that? though because $12 million in a cash for is just a lot to say no to I I agree but $12 million could be anything it could even be a player like Hoffina Valu yeah yeah and like so if if I got to tell you half and a who did not look like a $12 million player playing for Colorado I understand your point but I just disagree because of and if it's somebody that wants to be there and again

he didn't sign a new contract so whatever it was he did yeah but for the comment And then they had other targets. Like Morgan Whitaker, I don't want to make it seem like he was a backup plan or anything, but like he wasn't the only player that they tried to sign. They signed him on deadline day. They knew the money was coming from Mavon. It's not that easy. It is a lot easier in theory.

And for us on idiots and podcasts to say it's spending money, it is not as easy to spend $12 million on a player worth $12 million. Right. You can spend $12 million on a player is worth $5 or $6 million easy. No problem. Yeah. Gertozuni, Austin FC. He wanted to say a Granada.

They said, yeah, freaking right. Like we're getting $12 million for you? Like no shot. Out. You can spend bad money. But to spend money on a player that is worth it is not easy. And for me, I would 100% with Hoffo Navajo age profile, skill set, MLS productivity and availability, the guy just doesn't get hurt. Knock on wood.

$12 million. I think that is absolutely a fair price. Let me ask you guys this for this team who plays a good style of play, who is a good style of play, who are going to make the playoffs, who made a deep open cup run, have spent a lot of money, have talked a big game about being bold. What's their starting central midfield?

Like in an ideal scenario? Yeah. And how's a combination of... The Wayne Frederick stuff is wild, although he's played well, but it's some combination of Atencio and Paxton Aronson, and then another piece.

But haven't they looked best recently with Paxton Aronson playing on the left wing? Yes. So then who plays a 10? Do we use Wayne Frederick as a pressing 10? Maziz. He's done for the year, it looks like. Is he?

I mean, I don't have that officially, but if you look at, you know, if you read the tea leaves. But you can't play Aronson off the wing because if you're starting but if you're starting well Abu Farkees was on international if you're starting him and Yappy and Whitaker

one of them has to play center forward one of them has to play on the wing right yeah so Aronson has to be the 10 in that scenario you would think yeah he was last night yeah you'd assume all those players will start and if one of them's out I think the move then is to bring Donovan

Phillip in and not what's crazy about all this, right? We're down the rabbit hole here on the Colorado Rapids, ninth place in the Western Conference. We got me in, though. We love this to you. This is, this is easily my favorite team of the ones in the playoff fight.

Like, I have so much more. Give me your second favorite. There's qualifiers on all of them, right? Like, it's going to get dark. Like Orlando City are fun to watch. I think they're a terrible defensive team. The Red Bulls, I, admire just because of what they've done with developing players. Cincinnati arguably

have the most talent. And Kevin Danke has been a monster and I love to see that the way he's sort of risen to the occasion and single-handedly been keeping them in the playoff hunt. NYCFC have the best roster in the Western Conference. I hate what the Galaxy have done. I'm so disappointed by San Diego FC Like they're one of the top three Most disappointing teams

They're like a buddy of mine Texted me yesterday He's like what's what's gone wrong with San Diego FC I was like I think it's a couple of things I think everybody is like five to 20% worse Than they were last year Right like Manu Dua is probably 5% worse

Than he was last year Anders Dreyer is still like third team all MLS but he's 25% worse than he was last year And then on top of of it, the game model is no longer novel. Teams didn't know how to prepare for San Diego last year. This year teams know how to prepare for them. And funny enough, the first goal, Houston scored yesterday was a classic

2025 San Diego FC goal, the Guillermo goal. So I think it's just they didn't, they didn't iterate on what they were doing to the degree that I think they needed to and then they didn't refresh the vibes you know dragging the chucky thing into the season I think was a really bad sign and I think that's why they're going to miss the playoffs Tom I agree

oh okay I agree I was waiting yeah yeah I mean even yesterday I'm watching San Diego I'm like this is a big win for them as I'm watching the game I'm like this is a big win for them they give up the first goal goes to one don't be naive okay and it's just it all collapses from there and I like put on

on the Galaxy Portland game to watch on the TV and had 360 on the laptop, watching all the goals and whatever. And it's like, there's no way. And then I'm like, why would I not think this would happen to San Diego? Like, why would I in any way express? Three glorious minutes between the dryer goal and the gusto goal. Insane. Also, Guillermo is signing of the season?

I can't remember who else got signed in the window. But yeah, he's been. It's insane. Yeah, he's insane. 16 goals, seven assists. I don't know why I called him a goose though. That was very weird. It's this last name.

Like, if you look at box scores, I've never referred to him like that. Geremey. So you're telling me, Doyle, you accept the fact that Tom doesn't know ball that he sees a goose though and his first thought is not.

That's Guillermo. When I went on autopilot there. Yeah, that's disgusting. Yeah, I agree with Doyle, though, on a lot of these bottomish teams. Colorado have been the most entertaining. I think you could argue Red Bull are most fun to watch otherwise because.

of Mehmeti and no they were they were the most fun to watch for the first two months of the season yeah they've been less fun over the it's been better for them they've made a good change to be less fun to watch because they're less but dumps are fire going backwards but let me let me lay this out though for you so

as we said the Colorado Rapids now are 9th they sit five points ahead of Portland they play Portland this weekend the timbers come off a two zero loss against their like galaxy midweek the galaxy play sandy So the Galaxy are one point ahead of Colorado in eighth, and San Diego were tied with Portland and everyone else on 33 points.

That's a six point gap. So if Portland wins this weekend and San Diego were to win, it all becomes a three to four point gap between basically five teams for the last two spots in the playoffs. If not, I will say it's over, and then we'll come back next week, and I'll tell you why it's not over. And we'll do this whole thing again,

and Tom will cry about it. Last thing to note from the weekend from the playoff race in the West, it's a final Coppetejas of the year, Dallas and third facing Houston in fifth, still fighting for that final home seed in the Western Conference or the top. In the East, everyone plays each other again. So we have TFC Red Bulls separated now by three points because TFC drop points from winning positions in Orlando, but Drew in the 90th minute. So now there are three points behind Red Bulls.

who lost at DC a man up for 45 minutes, was it? No, it was for like 20 minutes. Okay. Yeah. I'm totally fine with that red card, by the way, because, like, the DC had been, you know, warned about time wasting time and time and time again. And like, he steps up there and Jacob Bartlett,

and he's just like going to take as much time as he wants. Like, brother, you're on a yellow card. and you've been just learned four times in the past five minutes. Listen, one of the most physical centerbacks in a league, getting a second yellow for time waves, then games gone. Get the second yellow for kicking the hell out of somebody.

So here's the thing, though, and we said this coming out of the weekend. TFC have been fun. Lewis Morgan's healthy, Georgie Mahalovich is healthy. They put up three goals against Orlando as we expected. Now they go into this Red Bull game. It's kind of must win for them.

an opportunity to open up this playoff race to be back in it. And I think game state set up pretty well for Toronto and like Red Bulls are going to let them have the ball. They're going to have opportunities to try and break the door down. Guys are in form right now. It feels like they're in a pretty good spot. And this becomes like very winnable for them. Yeah.

I don't want to say very. Like nothing feels very winnable for this TFC team because well, well, game states do set up pretty well, especially if Georgie can go from the start. and he's looked lively and he's been a difference maker these past two games. What have you seen from Toronto that says they're not just going to get gashed in transition? Yeah, I think that's fair. Right. I think that threat, if they can't take advantage of their chances and their possession,

becomes opportunities on the break for Red Bull. Nobody has scored more goals while after trailing the Toronto FC this season. they are third most in the league in points one after trailing. Because they love to concede. They like to go down. And especially at home, they pour it all in the last 20 minutes. The thing that is really good with Toronto is when they play wing to wing.

Because all their guys are like pretty good individually. Most of them like shallowly or Luis Morgan, Luis Morgan. They're like far post finishers, right? Like they're four winger. they're a really good finisher. They're not really super creative in possession. And so when they do the, we're going to throw the kitchen sink

and just start knocking everything long wing to wing, that's where they get dangerous and that's where they get good. It's a weird thing to try when you're not chasing the game like an idiot and a chicken with your head cut off. And when they don't do that, the game becomes a little bit more questionable,

although I will say, Dorscht is a really good signing. Dorsh is really good. I like Cuejo more than you do. I know. I think a big part. But part of the reason why they look good when they're throwing numbers is because they have guys in central midfield who could actually do something with the ball and get their wide play involved. But they're so static until they have to chase the game.

It's got it. It's so much like Charlotte. And we saw it this past weekend where Charlotte against FC Dallas, they go down 2-0. Oh, shit, we got to play. And they're awesome for the final 25 minutes of that game. But then do they bring that with them to the next game? They do not. And they got completely played off the field by Columbus

and a 3-1 that could have been 5-1. And it's like, this is what we're talking. This is why, you know, bring it back three hours to the start of this podcast when we were talking about how frustrating it is to talk about the same thing week after week. Like, we go on this show twice a week and we try to talk ourselves into these teams. Right? And like, and they're meanwhile.

training being like, here's where we're going to concede goals. Here's where we're going to improve. It's just like, oh, the shit I said about you in March, still true in October. Okay. Comparing that, I mean, Charlotte FC are an experience to come out of the come from behind win and be like, why does no one respect us and go and lose 3-1 at Columbus is a wild turnaround. And Columbus have looked better. I think there's some tweaks in there that I really like.

and we'll talk about Columbus in just a moment. But like, yes, that is this Charlotte team that cannot find consistency within themselves. Everything feels reactive to their opponents. And the ups and downs are game states and how we handle that. They go and play Philly this weekend. I mean, if Charlotte's able to find a way to beat Philly,

unbelievable. But that feels like with Charlotte's backline, the way they've set up and the options they have at centerback, it feels like Olaski could get into the golden boot race this weekend. So that's what like that's what it looks like on paper, right? And that's where the smart money is. But I actually think playing against Philly just simplifies things for Charlotte. And they're like, okay, we're going to play it long every time.

We're going to have 23% possession. And we're just going to try to get, say, Maximun or Aloko or Abada or Toklamati out on the run. Like that's it. If you look at what they were doing against Columbus last night, like they were trying to build from the back repeatedly. He's like you haven't done that for five years. They looked like they didn't know how to do it. And credit to Sasha Kleshen on 360 for ripping him.

He's like, if you're going to do this, at least have your goalkeeper send everybody up into their right places so that you can actually build out and not just pass the ball directly to a Columbus player. I don't know. Like I don't think they'll do that. against Philadelphia. You'd be crazy to try to do that against Philadelphia. So maybe by playing this more like regressive linear style.

Yeah. Charlotte gives themselves a better chance. But to me, Charlotte is just, you can't trust them. They have one win against a playoff team in the past five months. They like, they're not going to change who they are or what really what their ceiling is come to playoffs. The other game to note for this weekend. DC gets the three points.

They're on 33 points in that group. So it's NYC, Toronto, D.C. All tied with Columbus one point behind. And Orlando City only drawing moved closer to the playoff line. So Orlando City and seventh on 38 points. So it's a five point gap between six teams in the Eastern Conference and a bunch of them face off. And that takes us to Sunday Night Soccer, which is presented by Continental Tire, long-time partner and supporter of MLS and American Soccer. they're going to be in Ohio just before we get to Ohio because hell is real this weekend.

It is a six-pointer in this playoff race. Cincinnati, the last team in the postseason right now on 36 points, Columbus on 32 points, four points behind. So a big six-pointer and opportunity for Columbus to make up ground as they head into the U.S. Open Cup final. It's a big game now and it's a big game always because this is one of my favorite rivalries in Major League Soccer. and so I'm going to talk you guys through my favorite moments in the history of hell is real.

Tom, is something you wanted to hit before we get there? No, go on. So when you think of hell is real, what do you think of first? The 2023 playoffs. Okay. And Tom, you think of the sign? I think of the sign. I love two different students in the class right now.

One more literal than the other one. Yes, the sign, there is a sign that is up on the highway between Columbus. It's a really cool. rivalry name. I thought that was, I thought that was helping. So there's a, there's a billboard that's up, some, some guy put it up years, decades ago that says hell is real between the two cities. So it became the nickname for the rivalry between the two as they got into the pro soccer scene. The three moments, on field moments that I have flagged as the big moments that created this rivalry into one of the best in the league, if not the best, starts pre-MLS. So for anyone who doesn't remember this, FC Cincinnati came into

USL and immediately were the darling in a way that we had never seen before. So Orlando did it a bit earlier in the decade and it's become a little bit more common of Nashville teams playing USL then they're going to jump to MLS. But when Cincinnati came in playing at Nippert Stadium, which is University of Cincinnati's football stadium go Bearcats, they were putting 30 plus K in the building out of nowhere. And it was this like soccer movement that we just hadn't really seen to be able to fill a building at that capacity and create that type of energy and atmosphere and environment. And then all field shifted to on field, 2017.

FC Cincinnati goes into the U.S. Open Cup and this is where it's like the big opportunity to play against MLS teams. And FC Cincinnati played Columbus at Nippert Stadium and they are able to beat them one zero in front of 30,000 plus. I remember the like one sliver of yellow in the lower section that was, crew fans. And I just remember all of us being like, this is the game you're watching this week and tuning in and how wild it was. G.B. Fall had the winner. And it felt like that moment sort of put them on the road to this should be an MLS club. I remember that. I remember that. I don't want

to say I remember the game well. I just remember the vibe of watching it happen. And it was one of those moments where it felt like everybody in American soccer, everybody in like the MLS sphere was like, oh, this is a thing that's happening in Cincinnati. And to clubs have had lower division clubs have had great crowds before and we'll have great crowds in the future. But to take a crowd that size, that rabid for the local rivalry and to turn it into a one-nill win in the open cup, I think, I mean, it. got Cincinnati into the MLS radar, and like two years later, they were in the league.

And that is a special kind of timeline right there. And they followed that Columbus game up with a win over Chicago and PKs. They beat Miami FC, and then they lost the Red Bulls in the semifinal. So they went to the Open Cup semifinal. They were ahead in the semifinal. That was Tyler Adams playing right back for the New York Red Bulls, and Red Bulls end up going to the final and losing to S.K.C. but it was like this this is what the open cup is built for moment and it was the first time to see the two on the field against each other and we didn't know if we would ever see it again then Cincinnati gets an expansion spot in major league soccer they joined the league in 2019 both these teams are awful terrible

and this is where I remember I remember the second game they played both teams were terrible it was at nippert stadium it was rivalry week Heineken rivalry Shout out to Ianagan if you want to send some beers over. And I remember I was at a different game covering it. And we were looking for TVs to watch because we knew the crowd was going to be big. And it was going to be something different from what we had seen in MLS pretty much. Atlanta had sold out a football stadium. Seattle does what they do. But like this felt new that there was a new area of the country that could have this type of soccer rivalry.

And the fact that you had a rival meant with nothing to play. under it was Caleb Porter year one. Now all of a sudden there was a little bit of juice to this game and this was like a final for all of them. It was in August. It was a 3-1 win in the end for Columbus. Giazi Zardis with a brace.

Luis Diaz with the goal and Kakuda Manet scored the consolation goal for FC Cincinnati. It was beautifully written up on MLS Soccer.com for me to go research by an at Tom Bogart. Didn't put the attendance number in, which was the only thing I was really looking for right. and I think it was 31,000 people. And I vividly remember running around

to find a way to watch this game because if this was what we had built for for two plus years from that open cup open cup matchup of when are these two teams going to get on the field in a big atmosphere in an MLS game and it completely delivered. And like you said, I think for me, like I was super impressed by everything

that happened through their USL run and like I knew the fans were real and everything. they were in a bombination in that season. The season was over effectively competitively by the end of April. Alan Cock gets fired. Yohan DeMay, who's now with the St. Louis City and a 29 years old interim coach. The Columbus crew were no good that season as well.

Like, like you used that up. And we had seen it enough at MLS that like, yeah, if you're not good, sometimes the attendance drops. And like, I, you don't blame the fans if not. that game, it might as well have been a conference semifinal. Like the app, I remember the ab. I was like dumbfounded. And it like,

it challenged some of the preconceived notions. And it gave me so much respect for both of these fan bases. And it like, Zardis, Luis Diaz, Kikudamane, those were the goals of course in this game. Since he would win the wooden spoon and they would do that again for another two years.

Like, but that day, if you didn't know any better, like, wow, these is the like, it's this first, first,

Like is a trophy on the line? And that was just one of the, like, I was like, this is, it doesn't matter if these teams are 15th and 14th in the East. Whenever they play each other, I'm in. And then they all turn it around. And Doyle, you started us with the 2023 Eastern Conference Finals, which felt like a moment in 2019 that was impossible to get to. We had just saved the crew.

You know, Cincinnati was this train wreck of a club. And then they both turned it around, Wilfred Nancy on one side, Pat Newton on the other. It was a clash of styles. It was a clash of cities. And it was a clash of two clubs that were moving in the right direction. And that conference finals is one of the best games we've seen in MLS playoffs. Yeah.

And it was I think the two best teams in MLS that year. Cincinnati won the supporter shield in 2023. And obviously, Columbus would go on to beat L.A.F.C. in MLS Cup and win MLS Cup under Wilfrid Nancy. But, you know, since he had. Columbus on the ropes in in that game and it was a I think a late second half or middle of the second half 75th minute it was it was two nil cincet at home and that was a team that won the shield like you said and I think going into the game we thought was the better team and it was I was looking up flights to cincy friend let's go yeah and it was Julian Gressel who came on and kind of you know shifted the tide for

for Columbus and christian ramirez and Christian Ramirez. And they were able to, look, we know how Wilfridante teams play. And they had gotten on the ball a ton in that game, but they hadn't made anything of it. And then you bring in these two veterans who have been there and been through the wars. And they're finding the right spots. They're putting pressure on Cincinnati in the right spots.

And then they end up creating goals. And it was crushing for Cincinnati because they had just lost the Open Cup final a month beforehand. in the same way to Leonel Messi and Inter-Maiami. And I would argue, yeah, sorry, in the semifinals, I would argue that since he's never quite been the same since that game. Like still, you know, they were still a really good team in 2024, playoff team in 2025, but never a-tier contenders,

whereas for Columbus, it launched them into this 2024 season where they made the CCL final, then they won the league's cup, and then they were awesome in the playoffs as well, or into the playoffs as well. And I think that that one year of Columbus is the best I've ever seen an MLS team play for an extended period of time. But if you had to take one moment and sort of crystallize it

and say this is what they look like at their best, it's the final 20 minutes of that game against Cincinnati in the Eastern Conference final. It's wild. One, so Lucho Ocosa scored in stoppage time of the first half to make it two zero for, for this team. It's wild. Well, one, how quickly MLS teams switch because I think you could argue this Columbus and Cincinnati's groups have stayed together like the longest. And yet two players starting in these two teams are still on these clubs, right?

Bariol, Yerson Moskera, one of the best lone players like ever. And that was, it felt like Cincinnati could just churn out production. from all the players. Brandon Vasquez, obviously starting up top with Aaron Bupenza. And then on the flip side, Cucho, Diego Rossi, Alex Matan, Aidan Morris, Darlington, Nagby. That's the starting group, like down the spine and the attack in midfield for this Columbus team, none of which of these players are still around.

But then you have Stephen Marrera, Mo Farsi, and Rudy Camacho. On the flip side, Elvis Powell, and Kubo, who's been around forever. And then obviously, Lucho Costa was the center of all. of it but as you said it created this kind of like okay we like cincie but we don't trust them until we see it in the big moment sort of vibe and then they never got over the hump in the big moment and now it feels like some of the energy is coming out on the other side um and i say you know looking back to 2019 there's playoffs for these teams to fight for the crew have a final next week but at the same time this is one where the biggest game of the season is probably this game left in the regular season

because it's not going to be the year either of these teams expected in MLS play, but you want to beat your rival. And right now Columbus leads this rivalry 9, 6, and 6 with a plus 16 goal differential. A lot of that goes down to the early years when Cincinnati was a mess and couldn't get results. And let me give. Let me just say, if you're new to MLS or newish to MLS, Cincinnati from 2019 to 2021, which was their first three years. years in the league had a negative goal differential of worse than negative 100. MLS was 25 years old

by that point. Zero MLS teams had a negative goal differential of over 100 since he did it in three years. That's how bad they were to start things off. And they turned around instantly under Chris Albright and Pat Noon. And so if it feels like we go easy on Sincere a little bit, it's you kind of need to have some respect for what those two guys did in just ripping this team out of the abyss and making them relevant and worthy of the fan base that was showing up even when they were the worst kind of dog shit. And they were like St. Louis, which was year one with Noon and Albright, it's like, can you just get this team on any track? It doesn't even matter what track. And then all of a sudden they jumped into, I think they beat the Red Bulls as a five seed. in the playoffs the first year.

Then they went and played Philly, who were the best team in the East. That was a hell of the game. And then they lost that game. And it's like, okay, this team's on the right track. And then they go and win the shield the next year.

And that was from, as Doyles of the three worst teams in league history. And some of the context around that was, I think they were told about six months before their expansion season that they were going to be an MLS team. They had the shortest run up. They had the shortest run up. And it was like,

take your USL team and just go build an MLS team. And we'll see you, you know, we'll see you here in a little bit. By the way, out around. Alan Koch. I don't know if you're going to be a top level head coach. Also, can you be the sporting director too?

Where is he in hell? Huh? I just want, he's coaching, I always pronounce this wrong, Guelph, United, Guelph. It's a town outside of Toronto, I think. So he's in, that team a lot? What? Do you say that team a lot? I have, they have played in Canadian championship, and they, like, played pretty well a year or two ago,

and it's my Toronto friends will text me. say it's Guelph, what are you an idiot? But he coaches in League 1, Ontario. That just shows you the level of production that this team was putting together. Luke Sasano was sporting director. I think he had done the job for five months in his life and I'd only blame NASL. Like, yeah, it was a mess. And I'd like to peek behind the curtain.

So in expansion drafts, the teams that are well prepared and the expansion teams that came after FC Cincinnati used them as a case study on what not to do. When you're the only team coming in the league, you have your five picks. you just, you plan it out and do it. This was at a time when it was being broadcast on MSSoccag.com. It was one of the first times I got to be in the studio.

And Alan Cawkes, they're about to be on the clock. And Alon Cawke is still negotiating with Darren Maddox, who ends up being the first pick. But like, they didn't have a pre-played. They didn't have to pick Darren Maddox. They could have signed him as a free agent,

but they still used one of their, one of their expansion draft picks on it. Look, there are. The only thing you need to know. behind the curtain story. Like there are like we were literally explaining the rules of the expansion draft Alan Cook and Jeff Birding before like five minutes before the expansion draft happened. And that is the only example you need to know about how chaotic this team was is the fact that seven years later,

none of us know how to pronounce the name of this coach still. We don't know if it's Alan Koch, Alan Cook, Alan Cook. it still sits there in chaos because he was that chaotic. And now he's in Guelph. So I'm going to have a feature coming out on Yon DeMay next week. And not to spoil too much of it, but one thing. Because he was an assistant on that team, right? He was the interim coach at 29 that season.

He was always been in the he stayed on. And then the, was it Yop Stam or who's, Ron Yons? Ron Yons, when he had his racial controversy. Yon Tama was interim coach again. And at both times it was obviously, like, one of the questions was just like, you've become this hot young coach, like, leading one of the best teams, a record setting. Like, you don't have to talk about the people.

Everybody else has flamed out. There's nobody else around. And yet you have, like, risen. And, like, he meant this as genuine as possible of just, like, I learned a lot about myself, more or less because, like, even when things are going to shit, when no matter what you do, would decide nothing's going to work. You wake up every day thinking today's a new day, what can I do to change the fortune?

He's like, I knew, I knew I loved it, but like you really know how much you love it when you wake up every day. I'll paraphrase from him. How do I fix the unfix them? Unbelievable. And now? And he wasn't taking,

I swear to that he's like, I owe a lot to what I learned in CINC. And he was not saying it a bad way. He was just like, yeah, didn't matter how much it sucked. I was always excited to get up and try to change it. and knowing it wasn't going to change.

And think about this back then, and this is how far we've come out quickly. So they traded for Fernando Adi in their first year, I think it was, to use as a DP. They traded for him actually and got him into USL so he could be on the team and then flip over. That was available because Fernando Adi was no longer a DP level player in Major League Soccer, which was why they were able to do that.

And people were worried for a second. They're like, or are they going to get like around the rules by bringing guys in? it's like, Fernando Adi is a backup on the Portland Timbers. These are now the two teams that spend $20 million on players. Yeah. Which if you, I said this to you in 2019, when Giassi's artist was the star of the crew, great MLS career and what he did.

And this was a Cincinnati team that was built on, I believe it was 12 U.S.L signings coming from the U.S. championship team to this is the team. These are the teams that signed Cucho and Denke and Bryce Mendez. Like it is night and time. date. And I think, similar to what El Traffico did to sort of reignite the galaxy and change, I think, some of the perception of soccer in the modern time in L.A., I think these two teams have fed off each other. And I think it's built them up as Cincinnati took a jump. Columbus felt that

they had to as well. And these two teams have pushed these sides higher. And, you know, 2023, 24, we were getting messages is Ohio Soccer City USA. Like, is it the center of the game. And it was undeniable. And I would be surprised if both these teams don't get back there. because there still seems to be the commitment to be competitive. Columbus has the final next week, and for Cincinnati, this becomes must-wain, biggest game of the season. You're hosting your rival on Sunday Night Soccer, presented by Continental Tire.

We're excited to continue to roll through these. The following weeks, El Traffico. So we got another big robbery game to come after that, and then we get back into the Miami swing of things. Don't worry. We'll get Miami being on there before the end of the season. But if you're going to be in Columbus, don't forget that we will be at Land Grant next Tuesday.

day. What time? We will be there at a time around. Oh, I'm posting up 11 a.m. And I'll just be there. 14 straight hours. Well, we're going to do land grant. And then, of course, we're going to do nightcap at Charbar.

So if you're somehow not able to make it between, let's probably say, 6 p.m. and 12 at Land Grant. We'll see you at Charbar at the end because you always have to pay homage to the great institution that is Charbar. And we'll be watching all the games this weekend. We'll be back Monday, 10 a.m. Eastern time. We have a special open. Mike coming out tomorrow with Becky Tweed, assistant coach at San Diego,

talked a lot about youth development and sort of the pathways that exist in American soccer on the women's side and what can and can't be fixed, as well as the work that they've done in San Diego. And we've got a lot more shows coming up for you, a lot of exciting stuff. We had Brianna Pinto on yesterday to talk about the U.S. Women's National Team 2 games against Spain. So you can go listen to that one if you haven't already. And we appreciate all of you for listening.

We'll talk to you again very, very soon.