SoccerWise - MLS Too Early Takes w/Joe Lowery, USLPA CBA Negotiation w/Duke Lacroix & Brooklyn FC w/Marlon LeBlanc

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

An action packed show for David today with three separate guests joining the fold. First Backheeled's Joe Lowery joins to preview the weekend in MLS and then plant the flag with Gass on some too early takes. Then USLPA President & Colorado Switchbacks player Duke Lacroix talking about the current CBA negotiation, the upcoming season, and a chance to represent Haiti at the World Cup. And last but not least Marlon LeBlanc joins the show ahead of his first season as head coach of Brooklyn FC. He talks about the pathway for American coaches, developing as a coach, building a roster and a culture, and his son Kellan preparing to make his MLS debut at Philadelphia.4:00 MLS Weekend Preview w/Joe Lowery17:28 Too Early MLS Takes On Cavan Sullivan, STL, RSL, Deandre Yedlin, Ronald Donkor, Neco Triantis, and Orlando36:45 USL CBA Explainer39:45 Duke Lacroix USLPA President, Colorado Switchbacks & Haitian National Team1:10:30 Marlon LeBlanc Head Coach Brooklyn FC

Hey everybody, David Goss here with a big soccer-wise episode. It is, we think, kickoff for the USL Championship and League One this weekend. And of course, Major League Soccer continues to roll on. So we've got a loaded episode. We are going to talk with one of our favorites, backheeled's own Joe Larry. We're going to go through some big things to watch for the weekend. And then some hot takes that we are ready to cook up just two weeks into the season. So we will talk about Colorado.

We will talk about Orlando. We will talk about R.S.L. We will talk about Columbus, Chicago, and all the other teams in between. After that, we have an interview with the president of the USL Players Association, Duke LaCraw. One of the stars for the Colorado switchbacks. He is talking to us about the CBA negotiation, which as a recording of this has not been finalized. And we saw the USLPA put out a statement saying that the players had voted pretty much. in unison to initiate a strike if necessary.

And so we're all waiting to see what happened. So Duke is going to join us to talk about some of the details of what they are working on, talk about some of the experience that the players have gone through in the past that has led to this fight, as well as what has gone on in these negotiations. And then we'll talk about the season as well. And of course, for Duke upcoming a spot at the World Cup with Haiti, where he has been a starter for the team that clinched their first World Cup, appearance in over 50 years. And then after that, we've got one of my favorites from the North

American soccer scene. We are going to talk to Brooklyn FC's newest men's head coach for the team that will launch this weekend, if there are games, if not, whenever they do occur. Marlon LeBlanc, Marlin, I have covered his college soccer teams at West Virginia. I have covered his Philadelphia Union teams where he coached as a Philadelphia Union 2 head coach and now excited to watch him in USL. a fascinating background, played college soccer, worked up through the college soccer scenes as an assistant as a head coach for almost 20 years. Then in the two side, in player development with one of the best in Philadelphia Union. And his son is a U.S. youth national team player and one of the up and coming rising stars with the Philadelphia Union. So we touched on a lot of things about

the coaching pathway, development, coaching American coaches, how they grow, how they can change, what he wants to accomplish with his job in Brooklyn, building. that roster for year one and building a club bigger than just on the field. So an awesome convo big show coming up. If you're listening to Serious Radio, we tend to go a little bit long. So we will tell you when that show finishes and to hear the rest of it, you can go to the on-demand player or you can search soccer wise anywhere you get your podcasts. But let's get to Joe Larry right now. Let's go, baby. Let's go. It was like, you know, not that long ago that we were sitting across the table drinking coffee and you're about to go run a marathon and you're still

alive. To be clear. I'm fine to just drop the half. I'll give you the full credit. I've never done. I'm never going to do it. The problem is where I've casually dropped it. It's come back to bite me.

I put it in a group chat for my pickup soccer because I missed two weeks in a row. And they were like, oh, paging, David, are you still alive? And I was like, well, now that I finish running. And I was like, I'm not going to add the extra. Now that I finished running a marathon up a mountain, I'm good. Immediate response. Marathon question mark? Half marathon.

See, you got to know your stuff. spots. You can't do it in the soccer group chat because those people are active and they might have done one. And those are the people that are going to get you. I've never done one. You can do whatever you want, as far as I'm concerned. Two weeks into MLS, the marathon has started for you. How do you feel? How are the vibes, high? Vives are really high. We've made some backheeled changes this year so that I think like I have a little bit more of a life, which I think is also great because it doesn't mean that the content is any worse. I think the content is even better this year. We've got Andrew Cawson and Ben Wright who are doing the winners and losers

column with me. And so we're all contributing sections to that. Must read every Sunday. It's Sunday. They're coming out on Sunday night. Yeah. We'll publish it right after the final whistle of the last game on Sundays. I think it's really good. And I'm happy to have those guys and our group chat's been popping and it's been a lot of fun. And I'm just, I'm loving MLS, man. Even it's early days and it's easy to love it now and maybe a little harder to love it in like August or whatever. But I will say, I was talking about this to somebody the other day. I just think the quality of play in this league is better than it's ever been. I really believe that both in terms of player quality and coaching quality.

We spent like 12 seconds before we started recording talking about the Rapids. And I don't think the Rapids are very good and I don't think they're going to be very good. But they're interesting to watch, like to have ideas. And I think Burlter said something about that last year where, you know, 25 out of the 30 teams or whatever, have a real way that they want to play. And I think that is reflected in how these games look. And I'm having a blast. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think there's more nuance to it. It's interesting. Obviously, into Miami are this, like, behemoth. Sure. And LAAFC are good. I don't know in terms, I feel like there has been more competitive top classes of MLS in the past. Like, I think back to the Philly, Montreal, LAFC year of everyone pushing for supporter shield, all three teams in it. And feeling like there was five teams. And this was at a time maybe when Seattle had a little bit higher of a ceiling where you were always going to trust them, where it was like, yeah, there are five teams that could win MLS Cup.

were saying that over and over. And I don't know that that part of the league feels as elite this year, but I do feel like the middle feels way more competitive. And that as I look through a schedule for the weekend, I'm like, yeah, these games all intrigue me because I don't know who St. Louis is yet, and they play in a unique way. And then they go and play San Diego or figuring out what Charlotte looks like and who Portland really is. Like, I think all of that's more interesting. And I think that comes with that variance of style, which can sort of pop against. different opponents depending on what you get each week. I think I disagree with your opening take there, but I don't have the standings or the

recall to actually do it fully. I'll let that slide. It's how much do you trust Cincinnati? It's or entertain. Nashville. You mentioned L.A.F.C. and it was Philly and it was Montreal. And Montreal is the two seat that year right in 2022. I'm trying to remember what the rest of the West looked like.

But this year, like in terms of teams we know are good because that's what you're talking about, the absolute top class of the league. I think we know Miami are going to be really good. LAFC are going to, I think you undersold them. I think LFSI are amazing. Vancouver, we know are good. San Diego we know are good. That's four teams that I'm confident we know are good now.

Seattle should be in that bucket and Nashville should be in that bucket. All of a sudden, that's six teams. I'm way, way, way. This is the year Austin finished second in the West. Yeah, well, that's what I'm thinking. It's always a few teams we had in 24, right? It was where RASL were kind of making a chill push for a third of the season. Like, there are years that have this much top depth, but I think there's plenty of it this year, to be honest.

It gets us into this weekend, by the way. So we've got full slate of games. The New England Revolution, Houston Dynamo game is canceled. It was announced last Friday because of the snow. From what I read, it's about them putting down grass. My theory is that's the World Cup grass because they share Gillette Stadium with what will be the World Cup venue. It says that they'll be available to play on it next week. I don't know.

I've been lied to by MLS teams in the past. It seems crazy to me that you can't put this grass down. That's multi-million dollars for a world. Cup last week, but next week it'll be fine in the middle of March in New England. But that's one game is canceled. Otherwise, I will say this, by the way, Joe, part of my excitement this season has been the schedule. The variants of windows, the ability to like genuinely watch games live.

The Sundays have been great of like, oh, yeah, I'm going to have this second day to, like, sit down and watch each game. What do you sort of keyed in on this weekend? What gets you excited? 100% agree. The schedule is ruled. Maybe the game I'm looking forward to most is Columbus and Chicago. That's the one we be at right on Saturday.

Sponsored by Target or I forget Walmart. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. I never would have remembered. It's not your job to do that, though, so you're good. This is, I think a matchup between two of those teams that have clear styles, like I was talking about earlier. I think Columbus, even though they look flawed to me, though that's not a bad thing for the neutral, which I am, they look flawed, but they are still playing highly entertaining, entertaining, intentional possession soccer, where it's a little less, maybe less, less. side dominant in week two than it was in week one. But that game against Portland on opening weekend really sticks out to me where they never pass the ball over to Pereira at right wingback

unless they absolutely had to. They're just trying to play in the left vertical third of the field. And it's electric. It's so much fun to watch. The transition defending has been a bit poor from Columbus. And obviously there's still a little bit more that they could be squeezing out of this team. But Abu Ali and Rossi look like they're playing as well as any duo in MLS right now. Abu Ali looks like a top class number nine in this league. And Rossi, I think is playing some of his best soccer of his career. And so you have the pieces on top and you're just waiting for things to kind of settle down a little bit deeper down the field. And then Chicago, we haven't seen this team at full strength yet, which is good because they, you know, had some problems

against Montreal and then looked fine at the end of the day. And they struggled out of the gates against Houston. We still haven't seen Andrew Gutman with this team and he matters a lot. We still have been seen the first choice real attacking group all the way across the board for this team either. But we have seen Philip Zincolago play as a 10, which I don't know if I love or not. I kind thought it was going to be Ludd, although he wasn't fully fit last weekend. So maybe that's why we didn't see him. Kind of thought it was going to be Ludd as the last center mid alongside, you know, Salertros and then one of the sixes.

But it kind of sounds like it's going to be Zincernagel as the 10 and Robin Ludd in the right half space, maybe on that side. I don't know. There's talent in this team. And Boreltter has them playing how he wants. This is going to be a fun. The Gupman stuff's interesting because I think Barroso has been very good. And he likes to be on the ball.

He likes to take guys on. We have seen teams in the past where we're like, oh, they have two great fullbacks. and then there's a lack of balance. So I'll be interested to see when he comes back what happens at right back and like how they're, because Gutman is an attacker. Like he is left back in name only. But I was as frustrating maybe as it was against Montreal,

take away the goals. I think it's encouraging to see how involved Kuyper's is because there is other quality in the attack. He doesn't have to hang on the last man and only finish. And I think we saw enough of him trying to create for the guys around him, help set guys up, help lead the press where it feels like, okay, he's playing as a complete center forward

and can help that team out. On the Columbus side, Max Arfison's crazy, man. He's stand, I don't know that anyone in the league stands guys up where it's like, we'll come to a standstill, we'll both stand vertical, and then I can get to my spot quicker than you can beat me there. It's literally he's an NBA player. Like it's bizarre.

It really is on that left side. I mean, he's, he pulled out a couple of tricks and flicks against Kansas city that I felt needless to be honest. But that's kind of part of the aura that he's cultivating for himself. It's a blast. It is so much fun to watch it. And I think for Columbus to be what they hope to be this year, I think a couple of things need to happen.

But one of those things is Arstyn playing like a top tier attacker in this league. He's basically being given the license. And it really already was under Nonsei. But it looks to my eye. I haven't looked at the numbers. It feels a little early, maybe. But it looks to me like they're purposely playing through him on the left in a way that they weren't last season.

and he's going to have the opportunities. He's going to have the volume of touches. The question is going to be, can he be efficient enough with those touches and link up with Abu Ali and Rossi and all these things? I love that. One more being on Chicago. Just to note, Kuyper's does rule. But the thing that I wanted to add on this group is that Salertros, their new number eight that they signed from Sweden, he looks legit. And so I do think it's been a little bit of a slow start for Chicago.

I think internally they probably recognize that because how could you not? Right. But I think the final form of this team is still going to be really scary. and we all kind of thought it was going to be coming into the year. They haven't hit that yet, but I do think they will. Yeah, he might make the Sweden roster for the March friendly. He's really good. Yeah, and he might be at a World Cup,

and that's like a Tam guy that they added to a team that was moving in the right direction last year. Okay, mine, by the way, is going to be Colorado LA Galaxy. So you talked about a little bit of Colorado stock. I don't have a ton of Portland stock. So for me, my Colorado stock now has to be, okay, let's see it against a different team. and also Galaxy as well. I find Galaxy one of the most confusing teams right now in MLS for me to judge. I think a lot of it is reliant on Peck,

and I still don't know when Peck is at his best for the team. And is it him giving up his own numbers and the team plays better, or is it the team plays well and that can open him up? And you watch that game last week, and, you know, Charlotte fell apart, but no number 10, no Marco Royce and the best attacking game they've played. a year. And so if that's the case, there's a lot of responsibility on Peck's shoulders. And I don't know that all that responsibility will come with stats. And so it'll be a question of like, is he willing to come inside and help create and pull defenders and open up channels for the other guys? It feels

pretty evident to me of like, if you don't get pain still in the right spots, he's not really going to get himself there. So like you have to build the system to help set those guys up. But Chow Klaus has been what I expected, which is a central point that you can play off of active. I think being Brazilian with Peck helps. Like you can see there's a relationship there. They're joking around. So these are two of the teams that I'm interested in and still unsure of. And so to see the match up, I think, is going to be fun.

And it's a Colorado group where it's like a lot of pet projects on here of like the Josh Atensios of the world and, you know, wanting to see if Kudji Piotro can get on the field before the 78th minute for a team that kind of struggles in 1V1 and creating attacking moments. I thought Reggie Cannon was a monster against Portland. his heat map actually I was surprised was not as active as I thought it was when watching the game felt like he was living in the right channel the entire game and living really high but these are two of the teams that I'm still looking to see and I think this is a fun matchup between the two

yeah first of all I completely forgot jacques was Brazilian I don't know how I forgot that with his first name jowl but that's that's on me because he's so German yeah everything else about is so German on the galaxy I don't know what to make of that Charlotte game it It kind of feels to me like it's fake in terms of the actual attacking production because they just gave goals to the galaxy and gave them high quality chances in the first 15 minutes and then the rest of the game didn't matter. What I will say is I think this galaxy team is clearly being built

to be more transitional. And I think that is just so obvious. And it's kind of your only option without push. But maybe that changes a little bit if you get Royce in better form later in the year and you get Eric Tommy in this team. I don't know. But really, when you look at the way that Greg Vennie has used Justin Hack, which is, I believe exclusively in midfield,

from the start of these games so far. And you look at the personnel, you talked about dropping the 10 from the lineup against Charlotte and playing with what is, what was it, Surio and Windor and Sanabria. Yeah. You know, they were set up to go and punish you on the break.

That team, despite, I mean, they had some possession structure and had some intentionality and possession. But that team with that lineup is just not really built to beat you with the ball. It's not. And so I think in some ways this Colorado matchup is really good for the Galaxy

because after match day won, the Rapids were the most patient buildup team in their own third of any team in the league. And they were very, very patient against Portland, or Portland didn't press them like Seattle did. So they didn't have to be in their own third quite as much. But Matt Wells wants to deserve me this Rapids team. And that, I guess, means that Reggie Cannon is a right half-based attacker,

which I don't like it all. I mean, Reggie Cannon seems like a good dude, but I don't think that makes any sense. And so I think there will be opportunities for the Galaxy to punish the Rapids when they are not creating at some point, because they can build, and I think they have the quality to actually build that other on third quite well, even though they didn't against Seattle.

I think it will come. This team, I don't think, has the talent to create enough chances in the attacking half. And I think the Galaxy can make them pay in some of those transition moments because it seems like that's where they're aiming this year. So the weekend get started Saturday, 230 with NYCFC Orlando, which is a fun game. Griesman, back out, baby. You got to love the Antoine Griesman, MLS, little flirtation. I could have put money that this is where this was going to end, but felt the need to talk about it because it felt realer than in the past. And maybe it was.

Then because of the revs game being canceled, there's a. 430 DC Miami and then it's a full slate through the night from 730 through 1030 Eastern time and then Sunday only two games. So this is kind of the more frustrating version of the schedule we get. Red Bulls host Montreal on Sunday and then Cincinnati hosts Toronto. I know Josh Sergeant was presented. He was at the Toronto Raptors game when the Knicks gave them the business on Wednesday night on the front end of a back-to-back. Your welcome NBA for carrying the water for you. I don't know if he'll be ready for debut, but in theory he's been playing. I mean, he's been playing with the U-21s, but it is not pre-season for him.

So you'd like to see him out there for Toronto as soon as possible, having gotten an update on Evander as well. Okay. The other thing that I texted you about that I wanted to do here is we're two weeks in. Yeah. Let's give some takes. And I want them to be takes that are new, not things that we had coming into the season. So not going back to our pre-season standings and our pre-season picks and ones that we're going to stand by.

So I want us to be skewered for these in two months and in five. months and in seven months. And I'm happy to lead that charge when we get there. So are you prepared? I'm prepared. I'm happy to drop me. Nothing like having me come on the show and just preparing me to get slaughtered by the masses when these are inevitably wrong because we're two weekends and into the season. But I do feel good about these. I'm a big fan of World War I tactics. I always think you run directly into the gunfire in an open field that the odds that you'll make it to the other side are really high. I mean what? The service area of my body is not that big. Like one of the odds that they really can hit me from They can hit it.

The bullet things, there's no way that technology will last. Basically muskets, right? I mean, there's just no accuracy on those kind of things. All right, I'll go first. My first take is that Kavin Sullivan needs to start for the union. So here's the number, and we can compare it with the tape as well. Even with a penalty kick, inflating Philly's XG tally, and they're one of only five teams to have had the opportunity to take a penalty so far this year. They're in the bottom half of expected goals NMLS so far this year, according to American Soccer Analysis.

They're 16th, so just at the very top of the bottom half. but they have had a penalty, which is massive for inflating your XG through 180 minutes of soccer, right? That's huge. They just did not create chances against NYCFC in open play. They didn't really create chances against D.C. United in open play. Granted, they were down to 10 men for a chunk of that D.C. But it's been a combination of Indiana Vasselove and then one of Alasky, it was Alasky against D.C.

And then Augustine O'Nello, who's the new guy who started alongside Vasselov against NYCFC. It's just not there yet. And maybe it's going to come later in the air. and so that's my head sort of against this take. But Kevin Sullivan is a guy who's going to bring you some on-ball quality. And you can't tell me. You cannot tell me that after seeing what the Red Bulls kids are doing, that Kevin Sullivan's going to embarrass you on the field.

You just can't. I understand he doesn't fit exactly the vision for how the union you want to play. Add him to the list, I guess, of the players that are going to leave that academy and be good somewhere else. But he is good enough to help you in the attack. And I know that the union system is also supposed to be, oh, we're going to press and be aggressive and vertical so the system could be the playmaker.

get out of here with that. Yes, that helps, and that helps you with field position, and it does help you create some chances in the box for your nines. But who was doing the chance creating for you last year? Once your system got you into the final third. Quinn. Two guys you don't have anymore. Quinn Sullivan, who you talked about on Monday show, I believe.

And Kai Wagner, those were your top two chance creators based off of expected assist. And we can see that with our eyes, right? Because that's sort of what XA is measuring there. We know that, and those players are gone. So you need something. I don't think Vasilev is that guy. I don't think Anello is that guy, though I think he looks like a potentially good MLS player. And Olofsky, I think, is still better in the front, too,

though he's fine in the attacking midfield group. I think you need a spark. The number show, the tape shows it so far, and you know that Cabin's good enough to not fool around. I like the take mainly because what else are you doing? One, you've built your club on this. Like, stand on your ethos. If you lose Kai Wagner, if you lose this attack in quality, blah, blah, blah,

you're not going out and spending money to replace it. Right. So stand on your ethos and obviously not like for like, but in quality. And two, you signed him. you signed him to the contract. Like, if he's not going to be good enough to play at any point, then what was the point of signing him to the deal?

And it's been, I think, for me, a little frustrating. Some of the guys that have left where I appreciate, I do think Philly has done right by a lot of these guys of like, we're not going to play you, so we'll let you go. But I don't have the answer of why they can't play them. Like, I don't know why Jemir Johnson and Nisi Adi and Diego Rosio don't have a future at Philadelphia. That's the part that I get lost on.

And if Kavin's not going to break through and give you, minutes. I mean, it took Quinn forever. Like, that's the thing about Quinn Sullivan is he was in the first team for two, three years, not playing until he finally broke out. And like, that happens. It takes time. You have to get comfortable, whatever. But if this is, if you're the play of the kids team and you have a chance creation issue and you're losing anyway, why not give Gavin a shot at this point? It feels like a cold take, you know, but I don't think Bradley Cornell thinks it's a cold take. Maybe and that's where this is coming from. Kevin Solomon was better than Julian Hall at the U-17 World Cup.

Maybe not dramatically, but I think he was better at the U-17 World Cup. The problem with Kevin Sullivan, and I'd have to imagine this is part of it, is that he is underdeveloped physically, like compared to Mehdi or compared to a Hall over with the Red Bulls. And so I think that's hurting him here, but. And he's going to be asked to do different things. Hall, while asked to do work, it's very, you can target, you can control it, whatever. Stylistically, there are differences too, right? So it is a bit apples to, I don't know, whatever, some other Apple cousin.

Like, I, it just, it feels like this is the obvious solution. And it's easier for me to say this on the outside when my job doesn't depend on under this stuff. But I think, I think you got to do it. Do you think he plays a thousand minutes this year? Uh, across all comps, yeah, absolutely. And MLS, sure, why not? I'll say yes.

Okay. I mean, across all comps will probably be like two more CCC games the way it's in the past. That's true. But he'll pick up 90 there and then you're already 10. And then we go Leagues Cup. I like that take. I'm going to go team first.

I've got a couple player ones that I'm going to add in. My team one is that St. Louis is going to make the playoffs this year. Whoa. Yeah. That's my like hot take of team I didn't believe in, wanted to see a little bit. There is an issue with goal scoring for this team. Don't worry. We'll solve that.

We'll solve that. Sergio, Cordova is walking through that dark. No, no, no. The other one. Why? Simon Bechtra, baby. Oh, you still believe? I mean, I believe a little bit. Keep going.

I think he's fine. I think the hope and a lot of this revolves on how much time do you get from Lovin. which is big for this team, which is out of your hands and completely uncontrollable, and obviously Hartel being outhirts. But I think that this team will have clear ideas. I think that as the fall guys come back, it'll get even better. And it will create even more chances because they can press even higher. It feels like they dictated the game against Charlotte in game one.

And I think they hung with San Diego in an impressive way for a team that's new. and coming together. And I mean, arguably missing five starters going to San Diego on the road, week two, and they got beat. They deserved to get beat. But they were not blown out in that game. I think they have clear ideas of how they want to play. I think they'll make the center forward edition in the summer.

And so even if they're hanging around, I think there's going to be a boost coming out of the summer for this club to get even better. And I think they get themselves over the line. So I believe in a lot of what DeMay's put together so far. I've trust in him. which was only like solidified by what I've seen so far and I don't believe in a lot of the middle of the West so I'm taking St. Louis to make the playoffs as of week two in MLS. I do like the idea of not believing in the middle of the west

although I think I kind of do believe in a lot of the middle of the West you believe in Portland no so let's run through the teams hold on let's go the other way so we have we have nine spots to fit right that's the bar that you set so San Diego is taking one of them L-AFC I'm just listening to going through the little order right now San Jose, Vancouver, Galaxy, Minnesota. That's six I feel good about. Then underneath, you've got Seattle and ninth.

That's seven I feel good about. RSL and 8th I feel really good about. I think everybody else is fighting for one spot. I would take the galaxy out. Okay. I don't have pure belief in the galaxy yet. And San Jose, I would take out of the lock spots. Okay.

I like what I see, but it's SKC at home and Atlanta at home to start a season. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, it's. early for San Jose, I guess. I believed in them before the season started. I think either way, we're talking about fringes, but I think there is, I just made that point to say, I think there is actually a lot of quality in the West. And there are teams, I think that I feel better about on balance in the West than I do in the

East, which is just different from last year. And I think, I think maybe we're in the process of shedding that idea. I'm glad you said this and not me, because I do believe in Yohan DeMay and Corey Ray, and I like where this is going. We just haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen it. Like, literally the pieces aren't even there for me to make a fair judgment. I don't think we've seen two-thirds of their first-choice backlines so far this season.

I don't think we have seen their first-choice attack by any means. I don't think we've seen their first-choice wing-back pairing, like, healthy and really firing and ready to go. So it's hard to say exactly what this is going to look like. I do like that there's structure in St. Louis right now, and it seems like they have clear ideas. And the way that Dame is playing, I think fits a lot of the personnel that's there. When you think about the falls and you think about Conrad Vollen, who I think rules. You think about Dirk and we don't know how Lovin's going to participate in this team or not, right, moving forward. Hartel was just a good player and they really missed me in San Diego.

So there's bones of this that I'm with you on. Imagine if you replaced Perez and Sangbin with Hartel. And let's just say Edward Lovin, right? Let's say Durkin stays in the starting lineup. He probably doesn't. And it's someone else. Maybe it's Sergio Cordova in there. Like, that's a huge change in terms of personnel.

And that doesn't include the fall boys in the back, which fall guys, whatever phrase I'm going to land on. Which replaces Adonte Polvara in your starting lineup. I've been impressed by Jazzy Olerosco so far. I like him, but it just feels like they've, they've taken a shot on a couple players that, like, how specific talents they think they can use, like a Hafa Santos of like, okay, we're going to play you at wingback.

Your whole entire focus is going forward because you can't defend. We know you can't defend. And I think there's a lot of, like, potential in there. So I like this group. All right. So that's me. Let's go to your next one. I'll do a team one when we're on teams.

I do like that take us. I warm to it as you talked about it more. I'm going to say that RSL will be fighting for a home playoff spot. Okay. So I wrote a little bit about more than Gila Vogi. I'm sorry, did we be take Gila Vogi in the Golden Boot draft? I think so. And I think shout out to the RSL fan that he interviewed on the pregame show who brought it up.

I love that. I love that. I was listening to that while cooking in my kitchen and I laughed out loud. Like I was just, I was just dying. I wrote about Gila Vogi and RSA a little bit for Backyled in that Winners and Losers column from this past week. weekend, he looked amazing. If we're talking about teams that we haven't really even seen yet, let's add RSL to the pile.

Like, at St. Louis are in that group. We ought to add RSL to that group. We haven't seen, we haven't seen their ideal first choice starting midfield pairing yet. We haven't seen their first choice back three. I think I counted there missing five starters in somebody in every single line of the field. He all, by the way, had Achilles surgery yesterday, so out for the year. And he was the backup.

That's brutal. And I feel for the guy, Sergeus Solanz, who's a 23-year-old draft pick from the last super draft. not even this one, he's a better player. So they're, this team is so many good players that we haven't even seen come together yet. Forget, we haven't even mentioned Luna and all these other guys. And they're already playing good ball. They played good ball against Vancouver and they played good ball against Seattle at home.

And they were deserved winners in that game. I think three points in the first two is pretty fair for how they played. And this just isn't that team. Like it's the principles of the team with the JV varsity squad mixed together. So I'm really high on Gila Vogi as a ceiling raising talent. and I'm really high on what this team can be with the young players that are going to develop and some of the senior guys that we haven't even really seen bed in yet.

Sinabria looks unbelievable with the texture on his distribution from the left side. So I'm just, I was already kind of drinking the RSL Kool-Aid and I know you said these have to be new. I think I had them like bottom of the playoff tier in the West coming into the year. I think that's fine. I think they've got a chance to be, oh, shoot, we didn't think this team was going to be right underneath

kind of fighting against San Diego and Seattle. I think they might. Yeah, I had them out of the playoffs. so it's a huge jump for me. I agree with the sentiment. I'm going to link my next one in here, which is a player one, which is I think that if healthy enough,

DeAndre Yedlin will be in Defender of the Year conversation. I like it. Because in watching them, you unleash Gozo if Yedlin can cover space at that right centerback position, which I think is key to all of this working for RISL at a really high level, the level you talk about.

And I still think Glad Struggles with physicality sometimes. I don't know that angles that guy. So like I do think there is a need for someone to be special in that group. And I think Yedlin has like all the capabilities to be that right center back in a back three and cover ground out wide, close down wingers, win those battles step in at times in possession, but then also like win a ton of stuff centrally if teams go direct against them, which has been Justin Glad's issue in the past is at some point teams have said, you know what, we're just going to pound it down the field and we're going to go beat glad physically and we're going to be able to create chances if we go direct and i think yedlin is the stopgap to some of that so

if if rsl ends up in that conversation you're talking about i think it comes with a season in which now that's less viewing yetlin because he hasn't he didn't play this week and it's more viewing that team and saying what's missing and i think he's that hole that helps fill it and then nelly coming back will help and all that type of stuff but like that seems like the clear gap to me if you get phil Philip Quentin out there, out of there, and you get Yedlin on the field. It just unlocks so much down the right side. I love that take, Gosson, that's really, really good. And it's, I don't know if it's going to be Yedlin or how this is all going to come together,

but we have seen a trend of MLS teams converting fullbacks to outside centerbacks into three, right? So we saw Columbus probably do it first, right? Yep, with Marrera and Amundsen. Both of those guys were fullbacks and then Nancy made them into outside centerbacks. We've seen it with Dallas, where they've done it a little bit with Nolan Norris, but more this year with Shaq Moore. we've seen it with, I mean, Miami did it with Yedlin for a hot minute there.

And now we're seeing RSL do the exact same thing with two fullbacks and angle in Yedlin and making them outside centerbacks. It's a very different approach to what a team like Cincinnati has done when they're going to play with a back three, they're going to have three big boys in there who are giants and are going to punish you when they're trying to defend in transition. It's just different. And I think it's a really smart roster building trend for reasons that you guys have talked about on the show before.

And I think it works with sort of how the lot of. of these teams are playing balls. Going back to my pet project stuff, if I was a team setting up that way, I would go get Reggie Cannon because to me that's where he, as that third centerback, that's where he could be really special. Do you have one? You wouldn't put him in the right half space, like right up next to Navarro? I'd be tempted.

I mean, you could if you wanted to. Do you have one more for us? I do. I have more than one, so I'm trying to pick which one I want to go with. I'll say Ronald Donkor and Nectarios Triantists are the two best young players, not enough people are talking about. And that's kind of soft. Well, Backhield is talking about.

Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are. And beyond that, they'll both be sold for $5 million plus in the next two transfer windows. So I just cannot speak highly enough of both of these players. I wrote about Triontas for Backhild this past week. I think he's ready for the Premier League now. And I posted some clips about him that I mostly just posted on social so I could embed into the piece. And then Sunderland fans got all over and they're like, oh, we miss this guy.

And we want him back. And so I think he's impressed everywhere he's been. I don't know exactly how Minnesota got him for a couple of. million dollars reportedly according to reports about the fee that got from Sunderland. But he is physical in a way that few MLS players are. He's agile in a way that few MLS players are. And we're seeing now that Minnesota are using the ball a little bit that he can actually help you in that way as well beyond just taking pot shots from 40 yards out.

So I really, really rate Trantos. He does have a little bit of polish that I think still needs to be added to his game on the ball. I think he probably can, at least a little bit. I think he's better than Diego Gomez when Gomez moved from Miami to You wrote that and I was like, oh, interesting. He is, right? I mean, like, Gomez is a good player and he also had the benefit of the messy button,

so he's made it look even better. And I think Gomez is good enough to play at the highest levels of this game. And we've seen some of that. But Trantz, I think, is very much in that category. And then Donkor, he's in a different role where Trantz is in the double pivot, and Doncour's a free eight in that midfield three. But we've talked a whole lot about Mehdi and Hall and Maddie Dos Santos and Michael Bradley. Doncour looks unbelievable.

He played 45 minutes and got taken out with a yellow card. And so I imagine that's why Michael Bradley didn't play in the second half of that win for the Red Bulls on Saturday. But he was maybe the best player on the field in that game. He was probably the best player on the field in the first game against Orlando. Yeah, these guys are legit. So the Trianta's thing, I was thinking about this coming out of the weekend. So he is Australian. He's playing for Greece, but he is Australian.

Yeah, switch to Greece. So the list of Australian players in MLS right now, if you include him. Patrick Yazbeck, Aidan O'Neill, Kai Trenwin, who's just come in. Lucas Harrington, Kyle Rouse. He looks really good as well. Yep. Archie Goodwin.

I mean, not all of these players are good, but that like central midfields group, because they're all kind of the same player of like big, super clean technical central midfielers who can play both ways, right? Yazbeck, comfortable in possession, can blow up the game. Also looks good in the final pass. A. No. Neal, really good at stitching the game together. can sort of play with anyone. I don't know what's going on in Australia,

but it's a really impressive setup. And it did have me thinking of like the food chain internationally. And the two countries, it feels like, that have slotted in under MLS and US, Australia and South Africa, where these players come in, this is a step up for them, but not the big jump.

And then the next step happens. And there were a lot of times replacing guys who are either South American or domestic that got sold out of MLS. And I think it's been a really good move by MLS teams. It's clearly one of those copycat league things. It worked for someone. Now we're going to go do it.

But it's really fascinating. And there are legitimately good players from both those countries that have come into MLS at a high-TAM level, probably not DP level, that are difference makers for their teams. And the technical level from the players coming out of Australia in those positions is awesome. Okay. My last one was I think that Tiago at Orlando is going to be top 10 on the 20. 22 under 22 list. By the time we get to the end of the year, I think Poppy's going to start playing him

because he's going to have to. And I think I see a player who can do a lot of work off the ball and is really dangerous in possession and can create chances. So that was my third one on that, but I feel way better about my top two. I like, I mean, the last one's definitely most speculative of the bunch,

which says something given the St. Louis one. But I think that's for the name of the game, so I'm not begrudging that. You got to pick someone. I didn't want to go with all. the teenage kids. I get it. It's epic. But I, you know, I felt like I had to go somewhere a little different. And I like the reasoning on Tiago. I don't have in-depth thoughts on him because Orlando have just been so bad. And when I'm trying to watch 87 different games, like by the time they're down

two goals in the final 10 minutes, I'm not, I'm not locked in. I just like his, I like his frame. Yeah. He looks like he has the body type. Which is always to me the starting point for an attacking player. Can you physically hang in MLS? And I think he can. And that's, that's all I have to say on him at the moment, to be honest. And if Grisman doesn't happen, I think. think he's going to get a bunch of minutes. Tyree Spicer clearly is not. I was really excited about that move. It's not the guy I thought it would be for that team.

So I feel like he is going to be the piece that steps in and gets a bunch of minutes. At some point, someone's going to have to create a chance for Duncan McGuire. Hasn't happened yet, but it might happen at some point. We'll get there. Yeah, at some point this season. All right, this is always a blast. Joe, I appreciate you taking the time to join me. Go read Back Heald.

That article coming out at the end of the weekend is a must. All of John Morrissey's stuff covering USL is a must. Everything Ben Wright puts out there is a must as well. So go read Backield, go subscribe, and you'll hear Joe on this show at some point soon. Thanks, guys. Always awesome talking to Joe. Thank you once again for joining me. And we are going to talk now to Duke LaCraw, president of the USL Players Association in the process of the CBA negotiation with the USL League.

If you have not followed this, please go read some of the articles about it. I would especially point you towards Backheald and the articles that John Morrissey have. written. There's some other big pieces out there. I know Jeff Carlisle wrote a piece in Paul Tenorio as well. Duke's going to give us more of the details, but for anyone not paying attention, it seems like a lot of the topics that are being discussed is about the minimum compensation that is set for teams, for players, and raising that minimum, as well as some conversation around buyouts and players being bought out. And one of the things I didn't understand before, talking to Duke and maybe it was off before we got on. So putting it out there is with buyouts,

the players don't control it the way they do in MLS and the players don't get paid out the full contract. On top of which, one of the huge factors in all of this is that housing is provided for players and when housing is provided, it counts in your salary. So let's say you sign a $41,000 contract. Housing can be up to 50% of that. And then you are only walking away with 50, percent of that 41,000. So the $20,000 and $500. Then if you are bought out, which the team has control of and doesn't have to talk to you about, they only have to give you 75% of that for the year, 50% for years going forward, and then two months of stipend coverage for housing. But one of the things to know it and one of the things that I find even bizarre that it has to come up in this whole

conversation is most of the housing is owned by the owners. So there is still an advantage for them of they get to own the real estate and they get to control it and the fact that the league has to set in square footage minimums of what's considered housing shows you how bad it has been over the last few years the fact that that has to come up how many people can share a bathroom what is considered a home and i'll talk about it with duke that just shows you how far off we are and i think for all of us we love soccer the players are what makes it and these players are following their dreams. And while, you know, none of that's a given and there's tough things for everyone, I think going out and putting your body on the line and asking for quality health care with that

is a fair ask to make. And if you're going out and saying, well, we're ready to build a Premier League and we're going to have the best first division in America and one of the top in the world, then you should have a financial stability to be able to support players to make a living wage. And multiple players are working multiple jobs at the same time. We had this fight on the NWSL side. It feels like we're moving in the right direction. It feels like the U.S.L Super League has started at a high level, but the minimums in this fight seem really, really important.

So we're going to talk to Duke more about that right now. Thanks for having me, David. Appreciate it. Last time we had you on, we were talking about Haiti and your work there. So a huge year for you, a World Cup on the horizon, a potential for a big season for Colorado, and then this CBA negotiation, which was going on since 2024, and we are up against the 2026 season.

Just take me into the experience, for starters, for you, of going through this process as you also sort of handled being a professional soccer player. Yeah. It's been an interesting experience to say the least. I think as a professional, I respect other professionals. You touched on, you know, the unique experience of trying to prepare for the world. up given where I'm currently at, but then also thinking me back to my previous experience of like where

I started in this league and the progression to get here. Some progress has been made. And it's nice to reflect on where I've come to get to the situation and where the league has come. But we still have a long way to go to understand, you know,

even my own personal situation, but prior to the CBA and having these discussions, you know, I was on a $0 contract. I didn't have, yeah. the pre-CBA, those were in existence. Those are things. And, you know, here we are several years later, several conversations later. And we're discussing the standards that aren't, you know, good enough for professional

athletes. You know, I know some other players and played against some other players who are also giving up for the World Cup or, you know, have played at really high levels. And then they're in a league where the standards of a professional aren't what it ought to be. And I don't believe these standards reflect what professional athletes in this league, even for the fair market value of where we believe we are. ought to be. So this experience has been, it's been extremely rewarding, and it's been refreshing to know that the players are behind this.

The players are pushing for professional standards, and the players are united to get a deal done. That is what we want, but we want a fair deal at the end of the day. And so that's what we're pushing for here, and to be kind of on the forefront of that in this role, in this position, and representing the players well and proudly is extremely rewarding. So we're going to keep pushing for those standards, where that takes us, the players decide this, because the players,

players are the ones who live and experiences day to day, day and day out. You know, we're professionals 24-7 week. We sleep, eat, and breathe this sport. We want to see the sport grow in the right way. And so we're going to keep pushing for that. It is the sleep, eat and breathe, I think, has become really significant in the last few weeks and months as we've, from the outside, learned about this conversation because it is about the lifestyle opportunity for players and the ability to make soccer playing a career for people that are in the USL

and one of the big conversations we've heard is these minimum standards of base salary, but also including housing in that, like literally sleeping is a major factor in debate point in all of this. Talk people through a little bit what the thinking is for the USLPA in what you're asking for and sort of where that fight stands of what players need to be able to make, to make this a living and need to be able to be compensated to be able to live in these markets where they play. Yeah.

And I think for some people might be more familiar than others. And I kind of have been breeding this the last several months in years. But to understand what the values are, when we're discussing the numbers, we're talking about a base compensation number, which includes, as you alluded to, housing and salary. So a portion of the number that has been projected and put. out there saying, hey, players are asking for this much. This is too rich. Is comprised of both salary and housing.

So when your employer, a.k. the club says, hey, here's, you know, 30K to play professional soccer. Up to half of that can be housing. So realistically, in the most extreme sense, a player can be walking away with $15,000 as their salary. And they're saying this is a professional standard. This isn't even a livable wage for most markets. So it's tough to sit here and have this advocation of, hey,

where the fastest growing league. There's so many great things. Players going off to Europe. Players are preparing for World Cups, putting all this premier player product stuff out there. And then the conversations are around these numbers that are apparently too rich that don't reflect the professional standards that we're putting forth. So just just an idea of what is going on behind the scenes there.

Yeah. And it was fascinating for me to find out with the housing compensation that the clubs own for the most part, the property that they put people in which turns them into a property, a revenue generator, because they own the property and it's an excuse on the property, and then the money never has to leave their hands if they don't want it to. And there I saw a part of what the USL has proposed is the standards in terms of what's considered, like,

a proper living and housing situation, which I think if we're in that conversation, we're already past the realm of like where we should be of saying how many feet includes a room, and how many people can share a bathroom. I think shows how low the standards have been that that even has to be brought up at this point. Yeah, we're codifying things that don't need to be codified.

I think most people can understand what an appropriate living situation is, what an appropriate meal is, what appropriate travel situations are. Like, these are things we have to write down because when it comes to it, if money can be spent as little as possible, they'll do.

And that's been showing in my own personal situation, why I'm so close to this is when there's an ability to take advantage of the system, some people will try to take advantage. And we have to codify and, you know, carve out protections for the most vulnerable of our player population. Not everyone is going to be at that minimum, but we have to protect the players who are possibly near there and say, hey, we can't go that low. We can no longer, you know, take this cycle of abuse.

If we're going to sit here, you know, several years down the line and say, hey, you know, where we're barely moving to a 30K minimum, or we still want carve-outs for contracts where we're talking about the minimum standard being at some threshold, and we still need to have several contracts on a team to be outside of that threshold. It's not protective of the player pool,

and it doesn't respect the effort and professional standards that players are bringing forth here. It just really doesn't. You mentioned playing on a $0 contract, do you have past experiences of, some of these housing situations and maybe how tough they've been? Yeah, I think in my own personal situation, I was in, I was literally in a casino hotel for, for full season on zero dollars.

Food was the employee food at the casino hotel. You go, you train in order to make extra money, like went, did private coaching. I was a chocolate. I had, I were talking about my own person too. I want to stay on task, talk about it. But this is my experience in what has been happening and what has happened in the past. But I had many hats like chocolate. I was a chocolatier at one point, worked in a grocery store, played as a club.

While playing. While playing, while playing professionally. And while my own personal situation has improved and increased and I've gotten better as a player, I don't necessarily, I look back at the player I was. I don't, you know, I didn't like change and metamorphosize into some different player. I have gotten better. I have gotten way more experienced. but to you look at the player I was then and the player I am now, I don't think the value was from zero to where I am at now.

The difference in that, the delta in that was, is way too high. And I think for some players who are at these lower end of the contract, the delta is way too high between what they are getting and what they're worth. One of the great platforms to cover a lot of this stuff backheeled, John Morrissey, who does as well a job covering USLs. Anyone wrote a piece that just came out about the structure of USL and how USL as a league is owned, mainly by the Papadacus family, but with other ownership, and we've seen private equity money come into that,

which is unique in sports. It is not a single entity league where each team owns a share of it, like we see in Major League Soccer, an NFL and NBA, but is owned by individuals, and as some revenue comes in, it doesn't get redistributed it out into the teams. How big of an effect do you think that has on the experience the players are having in sort of this negotiation? Yeah, I think it's absolutely critical for those that don't understand how this sport works.

A lot of people just assume that there is some sort of interconnection like some other sports league between the league, the clubs, and the players in how the structure is distributed around this entire ecosystem. But the reality is there's basically three parties at the table where sometimes the league's interest and the club's interest and the player interests are all at play in any given conversation. So to your point that you mentioned there, we don't quite have transparency into what exactly the league is making or what they're doing. And same thing with the clubs. We don't understand the financial realities per se of all the clubs, specifically of how they're doing and of all of the league as well. And the clubs are, you know, we have a loose understanding of their financial reality because they're our direct employers. We know, you know, day to day what the experience is like as players for these clubs. But as far as the league goes, we don't have any insight into the financial.

reality other than what they're willing to share and put out there. And as players, it feels like we want certain standards. The clubs, I would assume and hope that they want certain standards. And I would hope the league wants to have a certain type of quality to professionalize this ecosystem because, you know, right now, you know, there hasn't been a single year where a club hasn't folded. And I don't know how much guidance and protection there is from the league to the clubs and the ownership to say, hey, this is how it's going to work.

This is how we can protect your future. in your investment in order for this to be sustainable for the long term. But as players, this is our avenue in the way we can advocate to improve the standards for ourselves. It's through the CBA, through collective bargaining. And right now, we believe that the structure and how everything works and what is being on the table, the value that they are putting in front of us doesn't reflect what we, what we deserve at all.

Irregardless of all these other financial realities that, like, as you mentioned, that ought to be brought to light and we don't fully understand the realities of. And, you know, we're about to have an entire league just be mended out of nowhere on top of the championship in the future that we're also bargaining for as well that we have to understand the financial realities up and say, hey, there's going to be this huge windfall into this ecosystem. Some clubs leaving, some clubs staying. We don't even have clarity into that. And we have to navigate and negotiate in this system while that is all going on and looming overhead. Yeah, how much of that is part of this conversation, which is the numbers I'm seeing are this would be. a six or five year deal.

And inside of that six to five years is a World Cup that will happen here, potentially a women's World Cup that will happen here in Olympics. Like the belief is there'll be the growth of the sport on top of USL's league office announcing they're going to add this first division and add pro rel. How much of this sort of work for you is trying to build in maybe future safeguards to have percentage increases when things start to grow? Yeah. that's a part of the conversation. I think our primary concern is

handling and taking care of the players here currently. That league isn't set to depart or sorry to kick off until 2028. But we do have to put in those guardrails now because those players, those workers, they don't exist. We have to bargain on their behalf so that when they come into the league, it's not just starting from scratch or starting from zero or where we don't have anything in place to protect those players. But even speaking to those standards where some of the professional and what we're talking about here is more about paying players as little as possible because how it doesn't really make sense. And I'm pretty adamant about this.

It's tough to have a D1 league and to pull something out of thin air and to have six sub-minimum contracts, like entry-level contracts as part of this USL premiere that is being bargained for starting in 2028 at $33,000. That's just stunning to me. like if we're going to say this is a D1 league, we can't have six sublimb contracts, six entry-level contracts in the D-1 league that are below the D2 minimum standards, in a sense. And so it's one thing to say, hey, we're trying to start this and, you know, kudos to the vision. And I think a lot of people are inspired by that vision and this projection of this product being put out there.

But the internal conversations have to also reflect that aspect. The outside has to match inside, and it's not matching up. And you mentioned the folding of teams and how sort of chaotic it has been at times with major announcements about expansions that have no ownership and haven't occurred, which is less the player's problem. It's more maybe the fans' issues of excitement and lack of excitement. But then on that other side, we saw Texoma go under. We get the news two weeks before a season starts that South Georgia tormentor are not going to play.

and they were signing players up until a month ago. So you have players who have been told this is what you'll be doing this year, all of a sudden with the rug pulled out from underneath them. And it sounds like there aren't guarantees then on full salary and coverage after that from the league or any other entity, which seems to be one of the fighting points about this CBA. Yeah, that's a big part of the discussion because, as I mentioned, every single year, our team is folded in the existence of the USL. And so to have that, we have to bargain for standards as it currently sits.

Those players only received three months of salary, so that's not including housing. And they found this out, you know, just weeks before the season started. They showed up. They performed their duties as professionals for multiple weeks. They trained on their own. They were living in this uncertainty even more so than usual. And, you know, prior to the start of the season, the rug was pulled from them. And these are, this is a reality.

This is the players experience. This is tough conversations I have with those players where, you know, you know, guys traveling internationally or signing multi-year deals or moving their families or changing their living situations or expecting to live, you know, in one area and then getting the rug pulled just before the season started with the team folding and then having to completely readjust their entire living situation. It's extremely unfortunate. It's a challenge for those players in order to pivot and change. But that is a reality. You have to get better standards if that is the case. And at the end of the day, we don't want clubs holding clubs should be sustainable.

Clubs should have the ability to be in the ecosystem for however long they want to, as long as is financially viable. And when they leave, they should choose to leave at an appropriate time. That's for all the employees, including not just players. Like there's still other people's real lives who are affected by this. And so just being able to improve those standards because that is a reality of the ecosystem, where a club might fold. So when they do fold, players are protected as best as possible.

For magic of television for everyone here, we're recording this on Thursday morning. Right now, the schedule says that Lexington and Louisville will kick off the season on Friday night and then a full slate of games on the weekend. What do the next 48 hours look like for you and sort of what's your forecast of what's about to happen? It's an extremely dynamic situation. I think the ethos and the most important thing that I'm proud of this organization is that it is for the players, by the players, period. So wherever the players want this to go, we will be united in that fact.

We will go where the players want it to go. And we're absolutely committed to getting a deal here, even as the time ticks down before the opening season. But we want a deal that is fair to players, that encompasses professional standards, livable wages, and values us as the premium products, we believe. we are and in that ought to come with an appropriate CBA that reflects that and so we'll see time will tell heading to the weekend that's a non-answer to your answer but at the end of the day it's it's a players it's the players driving this thing and wherever players go that's exactly what we're taking this let's talk about as a player um for you whenever this does that you're going to step on the field and i'm a little fascinated to find out as you're going to step on the field with people who are

who you are in this fight with, and I assume are communicating with and working tightly with, does it change your relationship with opponents or rivals at all, maybe as the season goes along? Yeah, and I think it makes us closer. I think as professional athletes, we already have this sort of unity,

this sort of bond and connectedness for what we do is intense. We're at the pinnacle and the upper extreme of our sports and our abilities and what we do. And, you know, we're proud of that. and, you know, we understand how much work that goes into it. So we have this innate respect for other professionals. But on this fight off the field, I think it makes us even closer.

You know, as athletes were competitors, you respect the person you're competing against even prior to this bargaining cycle early in my career and throughout my career growing up. When you go between the lines, even if I was a friend with someone from somewhere, like, you're competing at the end of the day. But once you step off the field, you're close. You can be friends with them. I've had former teammates who then I can tell you. it against and you know i'm putting the tackle they're leaving a leg in or they're talking trash

on the field but then off the field they're like hey like let's let's grab some dinner or we're having conversations or we're saying this and and i think this is this is connecting the players even more because we're looking at something beyond just the sport and i think when when it's bigger than the sport it connects to the players even more like you have to have it's it's great to have something that unites us in this way unfortunate that it's about these standards that we want professionalized. But to your point, as you enter throughout the weekend, it's, it is something that is that is unifying. It's, it's rewarding to understand that we're in this together. You've seen the highs and lows on the field championships in Colorado and then last year

sneak into the playoffs lost in the first round. Where does it feel like the team sits right now and sort of what's, what's your outlook for the 2026 season? Oh, yeah. We're, we're, we're, I'm excited for this year. I think we have a great group of guys here in Colorado. We've done a lot of work to prepare for the start of the season, you know, starting back in January. And, you know, the guys are professional. We're buzzing to get started whenever we get started. And so I'm looking forward to what the year brings, both personally and for the team side of things. And a World Cup on the horizon.

We had you on our first touch special about Haiti, your national team, who qualified for the World Cup for the first time in over 50 years. as you look at the next few months. Like how do you sort of put in place, okay, this life-changing moment is coming up, but also I have the today that I have to worry about. Yeah, it's tough to kind of have that outlook. But, you know, as a professional, that's always kind of the case.

You're always slowly stepping towards something. So whether that's the playoffs, whether that's the championships, whether that's, you know, these hopes and aspirations you have down the line until they show up, you're just kind of preparing yourself and putting yourself in the best situation

to be prepared for winning. that moment comes. And so that's exactly what I'm doing here in Colorado with the good group of players that we have, good coaching staff that we have, just trying to take it day by day to put myself in the best position to perform when it's time to perform. But it is an extremely exciting prospect to know that the World Cup is on the way. And to bring it kind of full circle, not sure I had another question, but to bring it for old circle, there's a bit of this dichotomy of thinking about preparing for the World Cup and then also talking about these $30,000 standards, players are also professional in the same league that I'm in.

And so there's kind of like this disconnect of that mental shift of what is going on here in the league, but then also aspirations beyond that. And that has to change because these players are good. Yeah, this summer in this country, you're going to step on the field in front of 65, 75,000 people against Brazil, Morocco, Scotland. Some of the biggest stadiums, we are saying the sport is growing. The league is saying the league is strong. And then they are fighting to pay players less than $12,000. there's a year in cash to play soccer, which seems like a crazy dichotomy, as you said,

coming around full circle. Incredible person, president of the USLPA, prepared to play against Venetius Jr. in a World Cup and one of the stars on the field for Colorado and up early enough and functioning even more than me in Mountain Time to do this interview. Duke, I appreciate you. Love having you on and look forward to hopefully doing this again soon and talking pure soccer. David, anytime. Thanks for having me on again.

We want to talk about the soccer on the field. And Duke has a huge year in front of him. So hopefully this gets done in the proper way. And players can go out and live their dream, but still be able to make a living wage and still be put in safe conditions. Any of you that live in the USL market police, make your voices heard. Anyone who's a fan as well.

And fingers crossed, we'll be talking about the big games this weekend. And if we do, one of the big ones we will be talking about is Brooklyn FC. They came in on the women's side last year, and now they are ready to come in on the men's side, playing at Maimonides Park down in Coney Island. They're looking to kick off this season on Sunday, 3 p.m. Eastern time, against Indy 11, and they will do so under Marlon LeBlanc.

Someone I've covered for a long time, I think one of the great stories in coaching process and the coaching pathway. It is Marlon LeBlanc, someone I've covered for a while now. Marlon, honor to have you on the show. David, thanks for having. just as honored to be on with you. So I want to talk about your career first and your path to get here, and then we'll talk about the team and a million other things.

I think I first covered your West Virginia teams probably about 10, 12 years ago and then sort of followed you as you went through the Philadelphia Union system and now here at Brooklyn FC. Talk a little bit about a coaching career and a coaching path and what American soccer coaching is right now and how you kind of find your way along it. Yeah, it's funny that you bring. that up. I've got a young assistant coach with my group, Nadine Tukukovych, who came from Austin. And it's funny that the, what he's used to having with tools and toys for goalkeepers,

I rewound a VHS state to, you know, do film with, with my guys when I first started at Penn State. And so, you know, it's a different era now. But look, the coaching journey has been a long one. It's been a fun one. You know, my first job I made $19,000 a year full-time. And it's crazy how the times have changed now. But from Penn State to West Virginia to the Union to the national team, I've learned so much all along the way. I'm lucky enough to say I've never been fired from a job. So knock on wood, this goes well here in Brooklyn. But yeah, it's been a long journey. It's been 26 years now. I've been working at this craft and just trying to get better.

And, you know, I still feel like I'm learning. I still feel like I'm growing. It's one of the reasons I wanted the Brooklyn job was to do something different to challenge myself. And certainly I feel like I'm doing that right now. Big conversation always is players, player development pathway and, you know, undervalued maybe American players and all of this. I think it gets underrated that the.

coaching path is similar of it's not always linear and you know we look at the the number of coaches that come from other countries that get brought in and all of that what was the path thought always like okay being pro first team head coach is the dream and do I get there or how does college soccer and academies and second teams and all of that sort of fit in that that sort of mindset for you yeah it's a great question you know if you were to ask me when I first started coaching in college, if I ever want to coach pros, I would have told you 100% no. Now that I'm coaching in the professional sector, if you were to ask me if I wanted to go back to college, I would say 100% no.

It's interesting because, you know, like, look, there's so many different, there's so many different, like, trails along this kind of journey of coaching. And I guess I was lucky enough that Philly was like this perfect segue for me into the pro sector, but in the model that we did it in Philly was such like you alluded to was really about development and coming from the college it was like this perfect little segue in between

and I was still developing as a coach even when I took the Philadelphia Union job and I knew that there was a lot more I could learn and a lot more that I could kind of stretch myself with and so you know I think along the way and kind of going through the licensure and even all the way to the pro license and kind of moving through this journey of pro coaching

it became really evident that, you know, I felt like I could do this at a really high level. And I always find it funny when, you know, sporting directors or presidents or front office say, you know, we're looking for someone with experience at the pro level. Well, you have to give somebody an opportunity to get experience in order to be able to do that. And, you know, I was really, really fortunate that I was at the right time, at the right place with Philadelphia and the opportunity to work with their, second team and and evolve that to what it was when when when when I left in 2024 was really special to me because I got a lot of the the benefits that maybe people don't see out of the coaching journey which is the player development side of things it's it's it's really become a

passion of mine and and really proving that you can develop and win at the same time was a little bit of kind of you know that feather in the cap and and we were able to do that in Philadelphia at all levels and and now kind of this next step forward for me in my own professional career, which is the USL championship and being the head coach of a, you know, a franchise, a club. I'd rather refer to it as a club more so than a franchise that really wants to win and puts winning at the forefront. But at the same stage, I can still keep a lot of my developmental, you know, qualities that I have as a coach at the forefront of what we're doing because of the support of the club. The idea is that I can still continue to grow as a coach, coach to win, but also still coached at a coach. developed. I enjoy that part of it. We obviously, I think for the most part, know with players then of like, okay, young player needs to take steps, scanning the field, learning the speed of play, physicality, all of that. What is the pathway that you have as a coach of like, do you write down at the beginning of every year, this is what I want to get better at? Like how do you go about sort of

identifying what you want to improve and you've said challenge yourself in? Yeah, I think, I think first and foremost, there are a lot of coaches have game models that are there. game model and they take it with them and they need to replace players to fit their game model when they go from one place to another right you a lot of times you'll see a coach take over a team and he goes shopping right away to to build um you know to build the players around this game model um i don't think i've ever had that luxury as a coach you know um my game model has to be flexible it has to be um able to adapt to the personnel that we were given because my experiences whether it be at West Virginia or even at Philadelphia where, you know,

you've got a 15, 16 year old that you're playing up against a 25-year-old man. The game model doesn't necessarily lend itself there just because you have this profile of a player in the way that you want to play isn't always going to work with, you know, the young player. So even now going to Brooklyn and having, you know, really a late start, to be quite honest with you being hired in December to build this team, I've had to be flexible with my game model to still be true to who I am as far as my coaching identity is concerned, but adapt it to fit the model of players that we have within our team that we were available to be able to go out and get, but to also maximize our opportunity to be successful within it.

So for me, it's been, it's not so stringent to I just have this game model that everybody has to fit. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole, right? Like, it doesn't work. So how do you still stay true to you who you? you are as a coach, but also, you know, highlight the strengths of the players. One of the fascinating parts of the USL setup is how hands-on coaches can be, though, with that player recruitment. And obviously, Brooklyn FC has a robust front office and some big names that are able to help

put it together. But, you know, I see a lot of the Philadelphia players that you've coached, C.J. only one of the players I've covered for a while who I love his game. But I've seen you lean on that. How do you sort of go about building a roster and how do you like? having that hand in recruitment and what you look for. Yeah, well, I was, excuse me, I was really, really grateful and thankful that Brian McBride, our sporting director wanted to have his coach in place before going after players.

And a lot of front offices aren't that way, right? The sporting side, the sporting director will make those decisions. And we'll kind of put players in the coaches out and said, this is the guy you're going to use. Brian wanted to wait for me so that we could do it collaboratively. And that was, from a coaching standpoint, made me feel obviously super respected, but also really good knowing that my sporting director believed in the game model that I presented to him and how we wanted to play and what we were going to do to build this team together. And so a lot of Y Scout, David, a lot of Y Scout, double-digit hours per day of Y-Skout,

a lot of, you know, hard time falling asleep because of all that blue light that sitting in front of this screen for a double digit hours every single day. But, yeah, just a lot of background checking and Y Scout and watching games and talking to people. It's been Brian and myself 100% knocking this thing out, leaning on trusted friends and colleagues and even agents. And I also joke, there must be something online that as soon as a coach gets named, that their phone number goes out. Everyone reaches out. On the planet, like, I've never, I think I learned a few different new countries for where I was getting players recommended from. My WhatsApp had, you know, so many messages in it that I couldn't keep up. But no, but it's been an experience putting a team together.

I signed up for that. It's something I'd never done as a coach. And again, for me to develop in that area was really great. And, you know, I think we're both, Brian and myself have been really, really pleased with the way it's turned out. We've done our due diligence. It's taken a long time. And a lot of these names that we've gotten have come out very, very late because we've taken our time and doing it the right way. But we're pleased with where we're at.

Kickback committee co-host, Brianna Pinto's brother Malik just signed or was announced at least. So a lot of exciting pieces, a lot of players I've watched for a while in different areas coming together, which is really exciting. I'm curious for you big picture now. Obviously, the women's side launches last year, but like building a club, not just the team, because a lot of this is new,

how do you sort of engage with that as the coach? And how do you think about that as you start to have that first game, have trainings, like all of these are going to be first? Yeah. And I've made it really clear to everyone that I've come in contact with about saying this needs to be a club, not just a franchise.

Anybody can have a franchise, but it's hard to have a club. And I made this point. I was speaking to, I can't remember who it was not too long ago. And I said, you know, you go to another country

and you go to Brazil and you go to Santos or Puerto Fogo. You go anywhere. And, you know, there's a pool with people in the club sitting around the pool.

There's tennis courts with people in the club playing tennis. There's, you know, a social barbecue area where people in the club are cooking meats on the grill.

And, oh, yeah, there's also a football team. And that's the club feeling, right? That's what makes it different than the franchise where you just show up on a weekend and you maybe tailgate a little bit and then you go watch a game and you go home. And this needs to feel like a club. And we did a meet the fan event and I went out and, you know, I think like eight to ten players went. My coaching staff went.

And we just rub shoulders and talk to literally everybody that was there, 80, 90 people that were there. It was really intimate. It was great. But it was more face-to-face. And, you know, more of a regular social setting where guys shared a beer with each other and ladies shared a beer. And we just talked and we gave them information about the team, their team. And we're trying to get them to buy into it.

I've already joined, by the way, the Brooklyn Invincibles, which is the Arsenal Supporters Group. Nice. Not far down the street. Is that the one Spike Lee watches at? Yeah, that's the one Spike Lee watches that. And it's my hopes that, you know, that we bring those guys on board to. and they adopt us as their Brooklyn team,

their domestic team. And the goal is to make this a community team. It needs to have roots in Brooklyn. It needs to be representative of Brooklyn. And in order to do that, and the people of Brooklyn need to be involved in it. And so, yeah, I think we've done a really good job of just trying to get out late,

albeit late in the game in terms of spreading the word. but I think we're doing a really good job of just connecting with the community. That was very, very important. And it's hard to do in a city like Brooklyn, right? You're talking about how do you, yeah, how do you grab a foothold in a city like Brooklyn? And I think everything special starts with grassroots and getting, you know, down in the nitty gritty. And we're going to do the same thing. How do you sort of set goals for on the field this season?

As you said, it's a lot of work to do in a short amount of time. All of this is with the looming CBA conversation, which we talked to do, the crowd about which we don't even know when that first game will kick off. And for you, obviously, the core job is, you know, winning games and putting the team on the field. So how do you sort of vocalize to the group what you want this year to be? Yeah. Look, I think winning is important. It's important for the culture. It's important for us to be able to grab that foothold in this community. But at the same stage, the process is more important than the winning. The winning is the result of the process. And so as far as the team goes, we've committed to the process. We've committed to

the everyday competition, the everyday working as hard as you possibly can. We've got these values, these core values that we 100% believe in. And I think at the end of the day, it's not unheard of for first year teams to go to a final. Rhode Island did it a couple years ago, right? So, so why not, why not us? And so the idea is to be competing and to put ourselves in a position to win a championship, whether or not that happens in year one, who knows? And whether we win or lose the first game of the season won't give us an answer to that either. And so the idea is to focus on the process every single day. What we do Monday through Friday will determine what happens on Saturday. And we believe that, um, you know, having that roadmap and that plan,

um, can only lead to success. And, and so I think throw out the old adage of, uh, they're an expansion team, you know, don't expect much from them. And, and to be quite honest with you, we like the fact that not a whole lot of people expect very much or know a whole lot about us right now. Um, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll let the results kind of speak for themselves. Your opponents are going to be the ones on Y Scout all week trying to figure things out as they get ready. Opening game on the schedule plan for is Sunday, 3 p.m. Eastern time at Maimonides Park in Coney Island. Before I let you go, I want to ask you a unique one for you, which is you are doing incredible things in the soccer world. You have

incredible background, but in your family, your son as well, who I've covered at GA Cups, winning championships, youth national team player, a place that you've worked as well. And I'm just curious from your experience of what you do and then being in your family. How do you raise a soccer player and how do you sort of be a dad, be a coach, be separate, but also together? Yeah, it's a great question as well. You know, I think it's not so much what I do versus what I think I've learned through that experience, you know, having, and to be honest with you, it's helped my growth as a coach exponentially to be able to stay modern, to be able to be able to to stay in touch with today's young player, young elite player and be around these young guys.

And to be, you know, it's different now. We would run through a wall. We would get yelled at and we would just do what we were told. And being a father and being a coach can be a really unique perspective. And there are lots of parent coaches out there. But I think uniquely in our situation, you know, we've been able to separate what is business on the field and what is personal with our family. And when I got to go to the World Cup in Qatar and just watch, it was a really proud moment, obviously, you know, for any father to see their kid playing a World Cup. and to have that perspective now of that proud feeling and that familial feeling and then to now take those experiences that I've learned through, you know, being a dad and a coach of your own kid and bring it to my own locker rooms, I think, has been, for me, one of the most

beneficial and stretching, you know, opportunities and periods of my life because I'm far more compassionate now than maybe what I was 15 years ago as a coach. and the ability to now, I think, you know, like some of these guys, like you mentioned, C.J. only, he's friends with my, with my son. You know, they played together, which is, you know, but like, now I know how to maybe be a little bit more patient with C.J. when maybe he's in a rut, you know, and maybe keep him a little bit more level when he's high. And, you know, obviously there's things like social media now like crazy that are just blowing these kids up beyond measure. but the dad's side, you know, helps me keep them in check a little bit and not get caught up in that whole thing.

So I don't know, David, it's so much about what I've done versus maybe what I've learned through the experience and being able to take, you know, a really unique situation where I've got a high-performing son in my home and apply what I've learned from him and through those experiences to my own experiences as coach. Well, one day maybe you're on the sideline for a World Cup. He's on the field for World Cup, and we could all dream. I think we'd all be better off with the LeBlanc family taking over. But for now, it starts with Brooklyn FC. Big game coming up, debut game on the med side this weekend.

Big season for you. So thank you to taking the time to come join us and good luck. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you to all of you who listened to the full podcast. Thank you to Marlon. Thank you to Duke.

And, of course, thank you to Joe Larry. We'll be back on Monday with our big weekend recap. Hit me up on Blue Sky with anything you want to, talk about. If you're not already, subscribe to our Patreon. It gets you access to our Discord. And we're going to be talking all about the MLS weekend that was with Matt Doyle and Andrew Weeby. And then we're going to get ready for some USM&T and Canadian men's national team action as we expect to start to get rosters for those March camps coming up soon. And we are looking towards the World Cup. We have actually made it. We're under that 100 days. And we are ready to roll. So thank you to all of you for listening. And we'll talk to you again very, very soon.