SoccerWise - NWSL Championship Match THE BIG ONE + Trinity Rodman's Future & KC Current Shakes Up Vlatko's Role

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

It is the big one the NWSL Championship is on the horizon. Jordan & David sit down to talk about all the action of the semis and preview the final. Not to be forgotten is all the big breaking news outside the games. Of course Trinty Rodman's future is a huge topic. And while we're looking at the championship game the Shield holders have made more news moving Vlatko Andonovski's role.7:15 Washington's Dominant Semifinal Win Over Portland26:15 What Does A Second Straight Final Mean For the Spirit29:00 What To Make Of Portland's 2025 Season33:00 Trinity Rodman's Future & The League's Salary Structure43:40 Gotham's Dramatic Win Over Orlando1:01:45 NWSL Championship Preview1:08:45 What Would The Title Mean To Both Spirit & Gotham1:12:50 KC Current Front Office Shakeup

Everybody, welcome back to soccer wise, David Goss and Jordan Angeli with you for a massive episode, a special recording on Monday for us because we need a whole week to preview a championship game. Jordan, we have our finalist for 2025. it probably isn't the names we would have picked a month ago it is probably close to the name someone would have picked a year and a half ago and maybe even at the beginning of this season we get Washington and Gotham

a Northeast rivalry out in the Bay Area which is the funniest part of all of this in the end of course a neutral site and we are excited to be a part of it for the entire week. Yeah it'll be really fun I was going to joke like the teams everybody predicted

to be in the final. I think Washington, with the run that they've had as of late, people were excited about what they could do. And even with the fact that Trinity Rodman was getting back from injury, there was a lot of hope for this Washington team. But Gotham, I wouldn't have, you know, think about mid-season. We didn't even think Gotham was going to make the playoffs, and they barely made the playoffs.

So it'll be interesting to see what this final is. I'm excited to preview. I'm excited to talk about how they got there. And isn't this the right? rivalry that NWSL is like really trying, one of the rivalries. Like rivalry week? Yeah, they're like really trying to push this one. So here we go.

I have it in the notes because I said, I've said it, I said it a bunch of times as we were watching the standings move and move and move and like we don't know where it's going to land. I thought last year's semi-final between the two was one of the best atmospheres around the soccer game that I have seen in a really long time. The energy between the two teams, the tension, the Emily Sonnet, Trinity Rodman argument, Rowdy, Tara McKeon, like all of it, I thought, was as good a moment as we've had. So now you up the ante with the final.

And like, I say that in saying, the marketing people win. Gotham, Washington is now probably considered a rivalry. Yeah. The biggest thing I hope is the fans travel because both of these teams have pretty good fan bases. But as you said, it's a cross-country trip. You and I were at the final last year when it was, you know, at this neutral site. in Kansas City, the home team didn't host, and there were times where the atmosphere felt a little blazee.

And that's the one thing that the supporters group can really get behind. And if I were Michelle Kang and I would like to spend money, I would do something to make sure I got some people there. You are speaking my language on that one. I am team, if it's an advantage, take it. And if you want to spend money, get your fans out there. I do.

So I know one of our producers at Kickback. Douglas is a huge Washington Spirit fan went, I believe, to their game at bay because it was the Oracle Park one. Yeah, I was like, I can't name the stadium baseball where they set the attendance record was out there for it and had said coming out of last year that he had pre-bought his trip no matter who was in the final saying I didn't want to end up in a situation like I did last year and I had such a great time. Yeah, it's such a great time.

Like, why wouldn't I go if they're not in it anyway? So the fingers crossed is hopefully there's some Gotham fan, or sorry, some Washington fans who maybe learned their lessons from last year. And then on the Gotham side, it's just, it's the biggest city in the country. So there are normally people everywhere. Like, I don't think there's a lack of Gotham fans in the Bay Area or L.A. Or Seattle or Portland or whatever, anyway, who could maybe make it a little closer. And then it would be really nice to see a huge influx of fans.

The stadium will be a little bit smaller than it was in San Diego two years ago. when they were in the final also as a low seed because they love an underdog story and they do not love to be a favorite if they can avoid it. So we've got a lot of talk about we'll talk about these two games. We have big news around Trinity Rodman that some I don't know fake news reporter trying to put out there yeah right

trying to get involved with some of the big stories so we'll see if we'll maybe spend a little time on that and then the Kansas City Current who we thought we'd be watching play soccer this weekend For sure, I think a lot of people would have expected we'd be watching them play soccer next weekend as well. They were upset two weeks ago and then decided they weren't going to stay quiet and they broke a bunch of news themselves, letting their general manager go, moving Vlako Andinovsky from head coach to head of sporting. They now have a coach opening. They've brought in a new GM as well. So a lot to talk about on that side of things as well.

but Jordan, anything you want to promote for the week, anything you're most excited about. Well, it's big week, Goss. You know, the finals week, they cram so many things into this week. And I will be on the Skills Challenge again, which will be really fun. We're adding a new event, which I'm pumped. It's just such a fun event. You went to it last year.

So if you're in San Jose, make sure you come out Friday night at San Jose State to come watch the skills competition. It's going to be on CBS over the weekend, I believe it's a. Sunday airtime. And then, breaking news, I will be hosting the NWSL Award Show on ESPN. Wow. Look at me. You're going to do your open? You're going to do your open, your comedy routine. Yeah. I'm very, I have a lot of comedic, good timing, and I'm sure that I will have a script that will just make me sound a lot more funny than I am. We know that you're a talented singer and actress, as they're on the show many times. So if the writers are looking for maybe a little bit of what should we bring in or ad,

you could do a classic little like two minutes kit type thing. Yeah. I mean, there might be some, there might be some surprise things happening. So you're going to want to tune into that 5.30 p.m. Eastern time on ESPN Wednesday. Yeah, just feel super blessed. Like, I can't believe that is happening. so wild no one deserves it more the voice in the face of nwsl jordan angeli that's why we love and feel very blessed as well that we get to have you here with us and talk about all of this but let's talk

about some soccer because a bunch happened a lot happened uh if you were going to be by the way in the bay area at all this weekend because you like soccer hit me up on blue sky i will be in the area i'll be getting in around friday as i mentioned our producer douglas is there i believe Claudia Pagan, one of our own, will be there as well. You will be there. Brianna Pinto is in the Skills Challenge, so you will be seeing her there. So we will all be around, so shoot us a message, and hopefully we can meet up with as many people as possible, and Washington will be there.

Coming into this game against Portland, at home, fairly heavy favorites, there was a bunch of injury news that we had talked about coming out of the quarterfinals. Gabby Carl ends up being unavailable for this team. Tara McKeon, though, does get the start. and Washington outside of that feels like they've been getting healthier and healthier as every week has gone along. Trinney Rodman once again, questionable on the bench, ends up getting in the game very, very late in this one,

and then Portland are able to sort of roll out the same team. And, you know, I sat at going into this game to Brianna last week. Like, for Portland, they already know the game plan because it's the same thing against San Diego. It was 60-40 possession against them. They sat in. They tried to find their opportunities in transition. it was going to be harder because Washington was experienced and I think Washington's a better team

and you go on the road and I think for me the big fear was like well how does Washington handle this responsibility to take the game, control the game, push the game and I just thought they were incredible coming out of the gate I felt like they played so loose and comfortable and fluid for a game of this level of importance that I don't think we've seen in NWSL in a while

every playoff game is grind out 1-0 what's going to happen And it felt like Croy Bethune pulling the strings, it was an August game for the first 25 minutes. I, before the game, I was actually two weeks ago, right? Because I wasn't on last week. I was just talking about how Adrian Gonzalez just really does a really good job of matching his tactics to exploit the opponent. And it looks different. And I think it looked a little different just due to availability in this game. But I loved the setup with two really attack.

backing-minded tens, having Croix and Lacey Santos back in there, the putting Kowasi, Monday, and Cantori all out on the field, and then just saying, hey, we're going to stabilize with three centerbacks in playing Morgan as a quote-unquote right back, and it's going to allow Weasner to get forward. I just thought that he hit the nail on the head because then Bernal at times could go into the midfield and help out and stabilize there if need be. But in watching that last game that Portland played against San Diego at home, they won the game because of how good they were defensively. They didn't threaten an attack. And I think Gonzalez was like, all right, well, we're going to throw the kitchen sink at you and see if you can figure it out and handle it. And

this game could have been a lot more goals for the Washington Spirit because you're right. They came out flying and it looked fun for them. Like they were really enjoying it, enjoying the atmosphere and the the they get the rightful win this this this one felt a little bit better than i think other games over the weekend but um yeah it was a rightful win for washington because they looked amazing and what you said the culture they've built the setup they've built i mean postgame trinity rodman running over to get adrian gonzalez out of the interview with claudia who handled it as well as a professional would and becomes this epic viral moment but also shows the relationship right and the connection that the players have to the coach and it came up

around our coach of the year conversation but like you could argue what he's done over the last two years is easier because he hasn't been the head coach the whole time but it's probably harder because he has managed this situation where yonantan haraldas came in late and left early edriguez also one who's there every day he's the one who has to be engaging the players and making them feel comfortable with what their future looks like and what the environment around them is and he's done so while always getting results at the time one of the sort of I don't know pushbacks is the right term but questions have been like okay but like what's his true style what's his game model what is the game he believes in and I think that's a little bit fluid which when we're going to talk about one Carlos homeros maybe is just a Spanish soccer thing that we should start to get used to but it felt like in this game and my worry there of like okay how will they push this that wasn't a negative that was a positive it was like okay Okay, this week, you are emboldened to take chances. Weezner, take players on.

Go after the game. Obviously, Rosecoasi is going to do the same. I felt like even how Hers felt getting into the attack, those opening 20, 30 minutes was fainting players, taking an extra touch, just moving the game around in a way that felt really, really comfortable. But all of it flows out of Croy Bethune. And whether it's her feet, her movement,

I just think it's her presence. And the way she's playing right now, where everyone else is just buzzing off of her as a hive. And this is what we were robbed of last year when she got hurt for the playoffs. And you could just see the difference in who this team is now a year later. How many times did she get the ball on the half turn in the midfield right next to the six or six is? Because there was times where Fleming would drop a little bit deeper, too, to try to help out Sam Coffey. But it felt like the centerbacks knew the task.

And the task was to break lines and find Croix in a pocket so she could turn and create. with a plethora of options in the front of her. It was, it's joyful to watch. Like, it is, she is the reason you watch soccer. When the ball is at her foot, you just don't know what is going to happen. And I think that's one of the most, uh, the best places to be because you're on the edge of your seat thinking, all right, what, what is she going to do now? Like there was a time where they're in the corner.

I think it's her and Lacey Santos and maybe Cantore and they're just like dinking the ball around people. And I'm thinking, what? You guys are just like, it's like a cat playing with a toy, you know? Like it was just so fun to watch. Probably not fun to play against, but I'm excited we get to see that in the final. Like that is what a final should have. And it feels like she's just consistently from that injury, gotten better and better all season long, and is really peaking at the perfect time.

She's so confident to call her own number that she's, taking shots from distance she's attacking defenders that people then have to commit to her in places but she's not so focused that she only does that and there were multiple times especially in the first half of this game before the goal gets scored where like second balls popped out to her at the top of the box or something got laid off and you're like just smack it like it's not only you're good and confident but like sometimes it's the safer thing to do yeah because a bad pass now you're exposed you're open and she's just she's finding gift Monday in these pockets that I can't see on TV 10 seconds after she's already done it.

You're like, where was that? There was no lane there. She's dinking balls over to Rose Kawasi making the run up the wing. Like just the way she's spreading the game and the balance she has of calling her own number and distributing makes her unplayable. She also, I think this is underrated in her game, but she allows the Washington Spirit to press differently because she is, the way she covers ground, if they're in that midblock and they jump into a high press.

She is, I mean, it's not really how they scored a goal, but it's her press on the goal, how she scores from just sprinting out, pushing, putting pressure on Sam Hyatt, so that backpass isn't great. She, she covers ground really easily. And because of that, Washington can play in where I think they're best is in, like, not a full high press, but this like mid block to jumping high press. and they're the best and with the players that are around her and the speed that they have to go with her,

they can bring the ball into a pocket, win it up high, and then keep pressure on. It's not always resulting in a goal, but I think the relentlessness just wears teams down and they're going to need that in this game against Gotham in the final. And I think then when you put that mix in with the flexibility of so many of the players across this team,

like i think they've really landed on something special with monday and can'tori they're both okay dropping in they're both okay being in the channels and so it's like the midblock starts with two up top in the channels and they're not always pressing on the same trigger and so it's really hard to decipher as an opponent of what you're going to get each time is rose crossy going to come really high is bernal going to step into midfield and now lacy santo's steps up another player like And it felt like that calculation Portland couldn't figure out. And then they were behind and Portland was going to struggle to create chances anyway. But you are talking about one of the best midfields in the league, like genuinely one of the best central midfields in the league.

And the ability to go and press them and create the game is really, really impressive. On the goal, there's two things mainly I want to talk about on the goal for both teams. But let's start with Washington. You talked about like the reason you watch the sport is because of a player. like a Corey Bethune. We did this with the Marta run last week. Like this was almost a non-sucker play where it was like the energy and buildup of it

was so long because Rosecoasi makes the run from so deep that it was this like, it felt like an NFL run or something like it. It's an unbelievable play. And it's one of those plays where a lot of players don't even think they're going to win their initial ball and get there. A lot of players, if the contact gets that close,

and I'm not saying it was a foul, maybe they go down just to be like, okay, let's earn a foul, let's get out of here. And then most players at the end of that run don't have the awareness to slide the ball to a teammate and create an easier chance rather than the close-angled shot. This is a player who we have been amazed by

since she came into the league, and we didn't think it would be this quick. And now you're in a year where you don't know if Trini Rodman's healthy, and Rose Quasi is a game changer for you. And like, this was her crowning achievement moment in a year where she's what? At three game winners in stoppage time already?

remember when she came into the league goss and we're like where are they going to play this player that's our future signing she'll be a factor in two or three years they'll develop her well yeah rose quasi speed kills and i think that's the first thing i think when this play develops is like if you have that speed you have to utilize it and both of the players that that have game changing speed were on the same page and said let's go for a run. Like, and you said it felt like forever. I thought I was like, oh my gosh, she's running so fast, you know? Maybe it's because I just wasn't fast as a player. No, I agree with you. It's just, it was 85 yards of me. Yeah.

Did you feel like it should have been like she could go? Oh, the, no way she passes it. It's also one of those things with speed kills where when you're watching professional sports, everyone's a great athlete. Right. And there are these moments like this where it's not uncommon to see in a D1 game

or a youth game or a youth international game where it's like there's space on the field for great athletes because the others aren't there. Normally that space doesn't exist in pro games because everyone is going to close that space down. And this is the type of run where you're like,

well, someone's going to close her down at some point. Right. And that part never came. I know. Well, you got to credit Spanscherish. She nearly stayed with Gift Monday and was close to getting something on that. But yeah, I think for Portland, they had just, just had a little bit of the ball. And they got, they got a little comfy, cozy and like, all right, in this set piece,

we're going to, we're going to be a little bit more aggressive because this might be where we can win the game. And so just because of that, like your guard goes down a little bit. And the playoffs are games of moments, like, literally. little baby decisions that you make, Torpe should have taken her out. Yes. You know, like could one player have stayed a little bit deeper? Is there a better challenge on the ball? There's so many little things that lead to this being a goal on the other side.

But you can't discredit Washington for understanding that there was space to exploit and they went for it. And then everyone's going. Like, it's not just Monday. When you look at the highlight, everyone's on their horse like, yeah, we're out. McKeone was like the first one to hug. Celebrate, yeah. Like, where's she going from? Everyone looks up and they're like, we're going.

And that's to Washington's credit, which is they're an unbelievable transition team. People don't let them in transition because of that. And the moment they like can smell it, everyone's like, oh, now we're going. Everyone's there. Everyone's pretty connected. Everyone's together on like what they do. But also, I think to your point, I don't know that this question was asked. But, like, you have to think Washington maybe had a combo where it's like, Portland's best chance to beat us is on set pieces.

When they take set pieces, can we take advantage? Yeah. And it feels like everyone was ready to go. And you, like, that poor, this is one that kind of drives me nuts because on your own set piece that concede is so brutal. And like, like, what's your rest defense plan? It just felt like after. Preventable. got by Torpe, there was no one else in the play.

And I don't understand how that happens. And then on top of that, what's the conversation of where this is going to be taking? Because if you take a near post corner kick and it was elevated, but it was headed away at the near post, that going the near post, that going to be set up. That going the other way is the quickest the team can break out against you. So like if you're saying as a team, okay, let's play this near post, whatever two hands go up, that means it's going near post, whatever that is. Then the rest defense has to be set up so that you are prepared. for this to occur the other way and whether they fell asleep or someone made an individual mistake or it was this like this is our one like these are going to be our one chances but all of

that is to the credit of Washington which is they put you under that pressure mentally coming into the game thinking that that's the situation and the goal was huge because you know you start to get into the 35th 40th minute it's like okay yeah it's going to be a playoff game they're going to dominate they're not really going to score it's going to be one zero at best are we headed to PKK like And I think that took, even though Washington failed to put the final nail in the coffin for as long as they did, it still felt like, okay, the relief can come now and now they can play their game off the back of having the 1-0 lead. Yeah. And they did. They just kept going.

And I think Portland made some adjustments, maybe a little too late, bringing in Tordon or could they, I know Lori was asking just to switch Castiano and Turner. I thought when Portland did that in the previous game against San Diego, they were much. more successful as well and you know a little bit too slow in making some of the adjustments that they made and you can't be you can't be on the back foot against this Washington team because they have so many weapons that can hurt you and i thought one of the things that can help you be a championship team is who comes off the bench for you and i think in both of the games we saw bench players really make it make a difference in this one abby odin to bring in abby odin as play out the game solid central midfielder wins balls but also is so good at distribution

like what a luxury unreal yeah it's a player that many other teams would have their midfield built around which is like the whole thing what about having the ability to play kate Wisner as your what third left back of the season because Casey Kruger is on maternity leave that's an international yeah Gabby Carl gets injured we had a conversation about Defender of the year finalist for Gabby Carl and as a Canadian international yeah and you continue to go down that list and you continue to get game you know game breaking difference making performances it's a huge credit to Terry McKeown is able to play in this game and is such a difference maker at left center back to just fill the space that's there. Yeah. And just since you mentioned Wiesner,

I'm going to, I'm going to say, I think she helped just keep the pressure on so well, especially in the first half, because you know if Spancher is going to get the ball, she wants it at her feet and she wants to dribble inside. And it felt like Wiesner would take the ball away. Wiesner would take the ball away. Wiesner would take the ball away. And so she just timed really well and stepping into that space to continue that pressure for Washington spirit and just the dominance that they had. Like it didn't feel like, it really, didn't feel like Portland was in this game. No, it did not.

It didn't feel like Portland was the three seed of all the teams that were left in this game. I would like to throw out that. Oh, I didn't even think about that, yeah. Yeah, that Gotham was an eight seed in all of this and Portland had a three seed. Weasler was taken in the first round of the 2024 draft in the same round as Corey Bethune and Hal Herschfeld. That is like absolutely insane. They basically rebuilt their team in one draft.

and then that doesn't include I think Stainbrook was taken in that draft is around McKenna Morris Yeah McKenna Morris who's now in Louisville But I think started in the final last year Did McKinna Morris start

Because of the injuries? I mean played a bunch of last year Stainbrook started right I don't know if Morris started Yeah It just It goes from League on players in Kuasi

Internationals and Sophia Kintori Rebecca like they've built this roster Every single way you can build it Um, they've got clearly a great culture going the Adrian Gonzalez stuff with Trinney Roman coming over to get him like that, that is, I don't know, for some people maybe felt even better than seeing her get on the field because of the news that has come out around her. Um, otherwise in her connection to the club and all of that, the final count on the underlying numbers, which are not the most important thing was 3.11 XG for Washington, which is one of the

highest numbers I've seen all year to 0.31. to Portland. It was a two-zero game. It was every bit a two-zero game. Rowdy delivers once again. Washington, so that's now four playoff wins in a year, like in a 12-month span at that stadium is become an atmosphere. One of the best in the world. It's become kind of a known thing. And that's something that will continue to be helpful for this team similar when we talked with Chris Long on the kickback committee two weeks ago. And it's like, people want to come here. People want to play here people when they play against us and then we reach out and say what your you know contract status look like what do you want to do like people remember that and I think that will be the case

for Washington for a long time going forward big picture for this team back to back finals like what does this run mean what does this moment mean for the Washington spirit and it's been through a lot of like instability right like instability instability there's the word I'll get there right I don't talk for a living or anything I think with the changes in coaches the number of players that they've had in and out of the lineup they have found a way to be successful and they've built this team really well you just talked about how they they built it I think a credit needs to go to Corcorian who helped them really solidify who this team was going to be

and it feels like with this Washington team over these last two years and in the future with Gonzalez with Kang with the players that they have we could we could see them really dominate this league like it feels like it's a long game for them and they continue to slowly build and integrate players with that that fit perfectly in the system that they said like Kentori comes over in the summer and you're thinking oh this is definitely a nine and she's playing as a nine or as an 11 or tucked inside you know like they just find a way to get the best out of the players that they have and to me that feels like the future is there's there's a really high ceiling for this team

yeah the process clearly works and the process works across all those different categories whether it's scouting college scouting international and then the integration process of making players feel comfortable fit in understand on and off the field what's expected of them what their opportunity is. And as you said, they're going to be around for a while. Like, whether it's just the individuals, like, is how harshful going to play for this team for the next 10 years? Maybe. Is Tara McKeon?

Maybe. And that is alone, a spine that you can build good teams off of. But it's clear that if that's not the case, the process to find the next ones to bring in Rebecca Bernal, to bring in Kintori to replace Ula Sarr, hasn't played for this team in over a year. And was, what, one of the three leading. goal scores in the league when she got hurt last year and was the team leading goal score and was replaced by Ashley Hatch who's on maternity leave and like the ability for this team to continue to fill those roles they also seem set up and poised to take advantage of whatever the salary structure looks like going forward which I think is a really big thing for them

not just specific to the Trinity Rodman conversation but like you know if you take off any of the controls like they can just re-sign everyone on long-term contracts and then bring in you know whatever they feel like they need to fill where other teams would be like okay how do we scale up how do we build out this team has an international every position and then backups at those positions um as well for portland we'll talk about them more big picture because we're going to do a big offseason preview after the nws l championship game uh for every single team we i'll just say for me, picked them last place coming into the season because of all the injuries that they had. Five players lost this season on the season ending injury list at one point or another.

And Rob Gale, who was an interim coach last year, his first year, as a head coach, they finish as a three seed. They won a home playoff game. And they went and lost on the road in a place that three other teams have done the same thing in the postseason. There's nothing to hang your head about. Even though the gap was obvious in this game, I think overall. you have to walk away with a good feeling. But there are massive question marks around one big name in Sophia Wilson and some of the other pieces of where this team stands. But they re-signed Olivia Moultrie to the long-term contract.

And it feels like they have moved in the right direction, maybe faster than would have expected. And coffee signed to a longer-term deal too, a little bit earlier in the season. The big thing, the biggest takeaway I think I have of this Portland team is they finish third. like this team is unified and in who they are like as the actual players they really like each other and they get along really well and they have talked about how this is the tightest locker room that

they have that is important that'll win you games and so then if you add in players who are game changing players coming back from either maternity leave or long-term injury like i got to see Morgan Weaver who is running and doing great things back in Portland and hopeful to get back on the field soon, you bring in players like that. And Marie Mueller, Nicole Payne, outside backs who affect the way that this team plays. If you like each other, you're going to fight for each other. And this team clearly proved that. And so that is my biggest takeaway from this Portland team is that. That's a really strong. They've built a foundation at which they can build on going forward. And I made the comparison.

in last week with Louisville and Bay the year before, which was like they both made late runs, got in the playoffs, lost in heartbreaking extra time fashion, P-Ks to Washington, and then Bay didn't bounce off that this year, right? It fell back down. If you want to put Portland in that conversation as well, it just feels so young that I would be shocked if it doesn't continue to develop

because these players as individuals are going to continue to develop. But if the culture is good and I think based off the contract from Moultrie, they want to be a part of this and they want to be around this. Rylan Turner is going to continue to get better. I think Jaden Perry should be a starter next year and should continue to get better. Kaya Hanks was out this year as well and was a phenom when she was on the field Tordon who I thought should have been on the field maybe from the start or earlier. As another young player, like it feels like this team can get better,

even if they don't have some huge addition or anything. And then the rest would be up to so far. Wilson where she chooses to play after this season. Yep, I agree. Shout out to Couture Criminal in the chat, who had a lot of those comments as well. The ability to rebuild on the fly without cling, Becky and Sink plus Wilson coming back to reach a semis with the squad, incredible job by Rob Gale, who of course his first year as full-time head coach.

And Portland and Orlando have to give credit to them, says Gabrielle, who I agree with. for both of those teams before we get to Gotham, Orlando. So a certain Tom Bogart put out a news report. He, I think he is a video game player or something like that professionally. Put out a report on Saturday. Was it or Friday? I can't even remember. I think it was Saturday.

Yeah. So the day of the game for this Washington team saying that there is a belief that Trinney Rodman's time in NWS hell might be up. some of the big teams in Europe. Chelsea noted, I think PSG Leon mentioned as well, some of the biggest clubs in the world are in talks with her and that NWSL has entered the conversation themselves trying to help secure her rights to stay in the league. What is your reaction to this and what do you sort of take away most, I'd say, from all of this? Because we've known her contracts up. We've known she travels. We know she went and rehabbed in Europe. We know Ben Shelton plays tennis in a lot of different countries. We know she is one of the biggest names

in the sport in the world. So there's like not a lot new in this and yet it felt a little bit different maybe coming at this point of the year. I just feel like a lot of things. Because if you're NWSL, I, I, Alyssa Thompson is a big name. But Trinity Rodman is a bigger name. I think everywhere. Like, everybody knows a name Rodman. People that don't know soccer are watching Trinity Rodman or see her or have now been connected with her because she's dating Ben Shelton. Like, she's kind of blurred the lines of sports.

In celebrity. In celebrity. Yeah. It just feels like they need to do whatever they can to keep her in this league. And I don't know if that's possible. I don't know if that is going to happen, but I would imagine NWSL, the, the, it's not general counsel,

what's the, what's the people that sit on the board, the board of governors? There we go, I knew how to G in it. Board of governors, I would imagine there is a lot of conversation about how can we keep these types of players in this league and do it in a way that is like a DP contract in MLS, right? It doesn't count against the salary cap. Because I think Trinity Rodman playing in this league is, one, it's going to benefit her because the defenders in this league are better than defenders in any other league.

So she's going to have to get better. It's two years now, now a year and a half before a World Cup, and the United States are going to want to do whatever they can to avenge their World Cup. And so you want one of your best players playing in the best league possible. But if you're Trinity Rodman, she's going to have the same thoughts as Alyssa Thompson. and go get your money, go play in Champions League, and do something that is a new experience. So I think that I can see both sides of things. I just feel like it would be really detrimental

to the league if she does not stay. It's interesting because I feel the opposite about this one. Ooh. I think, so this will be Trudy Rodman's third final in five years in the league. If they win, it will be her second championship. Right. she had she left california went to texas for college came to washington dc has made it home

no she never went to college she didn't play at ut for a year did i just make no no no she she was going to go to washington state and she she didn't she ended up going straight pros wow i made up all of this in my head well there is a trinity that went to ut so maybe that's wow i just made that up so moved cross country there you go moved across the continent and played in a whole different setup in a whole different region. My point being, I think she's accomplished a lot of things, and this is what's next for her. And I think that's okay.

Like, outside of the four or five players in any sport anywhere, you kind of always will have some level of what's next unless you're the one person, you know, unless I can't even think of an athlete because LeBron James has moved five times. like people don't really stay places so that part is like a little bit more explainable to me where Alyssa Thompson it was like she doesn't feel like she's going to reach her level here that is like a bad look that she feels that way that she but she and she was but she was living 20 minutes away from home and like all of that stuff so this one's explainable and therefore

it feels less detrimental in terms of the image but it's worse in terms of she's the reason people tune into games. She's the promo of the game. She's how you get people in the building for the first time. She is how you get people to know about the names of the teams even. Because that's, as you said, she's gotten celebrity. She's such a big celebrity. That's the base level of all of this. To me, the worst part of all of this is if the entire barrier is money, then the league has made a mistake. If, you know, Lindsay Heaps has said, I want to play. I had the moment. I did the age. And then I had the moment.

I wanted to play in Champions League. Like, that's what I wanted to do. I think that's fine. Mm-hmm. And that will be the case for some athletes. And like you said, though, week to week, you are playing against better teams in NWSL than you are if you play for Chelsea or Leon or PSG. So, like, you can't convince people. If that's what they want, that's what they want, that's okay.

Totally. If the barrier is totally money and that you just can't get paid what you are fairly worth in this league, there's something wrong with the structure of the league and you're going to bump up against that every single time then going forward and it feels like this has been the bumping point Naomi Germa Alyssa Thompson and now Trinity Rodman so I think what you're saying is very valid and I like the way that you approach that and I can also you know I could really empathize with Trinity Rodman wanting to do something different and and say you know I can see her point of view as a player absolutely so i it's hard because i don't have like a clear cut feeling about this is

good or bad because i think it could be good for her i think it could be bad for the league right so it's kind of a mutual feeling two two of the other elements that are part of this so one is uh and someone put this in the chat and i fully agree with this is they said still surprises me the league can attempt to interfere with a player's contract the fact that this is the line is negotiating directly with NWSL is bad to me because I would assume what Michelle Kang has built at Washington is just as professional and functional as anything NWSL can do. And this is now like NWSL throwing this late Hail Mary to try and get involved. And like that is not professional and organized. That's not what I want because that's not sustainable and that's not a process that you want built in.

And that's some of the stuff that MLS did early on. But I've said this over and over again. the two leagues are in two different worlds. MLS is fighting against other soccer leagues. NWSL is fighting against people being soccer fans for the first time. Like NWSL is already at a tier that MLS was never at. And that's where these debates, I think, are interesting, which is like they're not one for one just because they're two of the same sport in the same country. And then the other, of course, is the salary structure and what it looks like.

I think DPs make sense because to the other comment in the chat, which says fans are freaking out, look at, English, German, and Spanish players moving. Like, this is the global transfer. And Katrin Berger plays in this league. Esther plays in this league. Rebecca Bernal plays in this league. And if you had DPs, you could get a Bon Mati.

You could get these big-name players to come over here, Aputais, because you could pay them what they're worth, and they could play and experience something very different from what they've experienced. I'm not saying you could get, like, those exact players would come if they were paid the right money. Like, I think there's other things that go into the decision. But you're in the running. You're in the running.

You're in the arena. And, like, I think that's what NWSL, this is the best, I think, this is the best league in the world. And I will say that. I think it challenges you. I think there is a lot more, you know, I think the game is played really fast, but the integration of, like, some really good tactics over the last couple of years has made it a lot more entertaining and, like, you have to have problem solving to play in this league.

and we see how different styles can be successful, and every single game is difficult. And if you want to be the best, you need to challenge yourself in those areas, but you're not going to, if you're a player from somewhere else, you're never going to be able to experience that because if you're the best in the world, the salary cap just doesn't allow you to be valued

at what you could be valued in other places. And part of the reason it's the best, League in the world is because there is enough space inside of their salary cap to have really deep rosters. And because of that, the parity, there is a push for every team to try to compete at the same level where, like, Brighton has no, I thought that they're going to compete with Man City. That's not a world. So they're functioning in a different way, and those matchups are different. So most of this exists correct. Now we are hitting a new problem, and you need a new answer to that question. And that's where we're talking.

about this other extra spot where someone could say okay well dps how many do you need what is it like we are talking about a 1% issue on this and we've named four players that it applies to and those are probably four of 20 players on the planet that would it apply to but this is the problem that the league is being phased with right now you have to come up with a solution for that issue because then if you take those players off of your salary cap you can get another like really high quality player in your roster that is just not quite that tier right but it's taking you that money that that DP type player would would previously be taking so it opens up just even another spot of a high quality player to join your your roster and the money is being spent

for players in that Casey's getting players to come in because they're spending money on medical and they're spending money on training like the arms race exists there to an extent if you shift that to salary players would come for the same reasons and that's maybe something easier for racing louisville to do to contend this is one of the big picture conversations we'll continue to have in the offseason combo about that and talk about um let's get into the next game gotham orlando i think like we expected toe to toe cagey um a lot of quality in this one but maybe less direction than we saw in the washington portland game the big news going into it esther's return out the gate so in the starting lineup second in the golden boot race golden boot winner at the euros one

of the best players in the world and a huge addition for this Gotham team. I thought as this game played out, it was sort of 50-50 back and forth. I thought there was two big substitutions in the end that changed things. Is there anything you want to talk about from before that, the 65 minutes that I'm missing? That's interesting. You thought it was 50-50 because I felt like Gotham just like I was surprised how they showed up. I just didn't feel like they had, like Orlando was winning all the second balls. They just looked a little bit more eager.

It felt to me like they had more control of the game. And honestly, should have been up one to nothing with Ovae chance. Like the ball, it was her left foot too. Like, I don't, it bounced over her left foot. I don't know how, I actually don't know how that happened. Just like, we'll get to later. I don't know where the free kick came from.

but I it was shocking to me that Orlando was not up at half time and unfortunately they just have their self to blame in this one it feels like to me I agree with that but I thought that one the chances were a few and far between yes I kind of expected that was the way Gotham showed up and would show up I guess a little bit more and then the other thing is just to let Orlando come at them yeah Because I think that's what you saw in the Seattle game was like, okay, Orlando is going to play a little bit higher pressure. And also, it's not unsustainable because of the loss of Barbara Banda and maybe a couple less attacking outlets. And as long as you track your runners, because the whole game now was, well, Haley McCutcheon or Ali Limo or any of the midfielder's pop up in an area, as long as you're tracking your runners, you can keep them in front of you for the most part. I thought the most dangerous portion of the game was Orlando's press.

Yeah. And I was surprised that Gotham stuck to trying to play through it as long as they did. And we were a whisker away from Gotham going up to zero or going down to zero. It felt like, but I thought a lot of that came when Simone Charlie came on the field. Yeah. I thought her ability to lead the press changed for Orlando. And they started to play higher. And they started to trap Gotham.

And Lily Real was under a ton of pressure. on the buildouts in awkward positions but kept trying to play it and we were kind of it felt like sitting on this precipice for a 25 minute span in that second half where it's like well someone's going to make a mistake one way either they're going to either Orlando's going to get broken or gotham's going to make a mistake and it just never really broke through yeah i it was charlie but it was also a yane coming in as well because the combination of those two put lily reel in this pickle and she looked like she was in a pickle like where do i go i think that was half sour dill it was all yeah i mean definitely dill maybe spicy but it was it was a place where

i don't think we've seen lily real in since she's been in nwsl one of the most consistent players in the back line for gotham this year and a rookie but she looked and that started the second half looked lost in moments like I actually don't know what to do. She was biting and then the ball would go beyond her. And then Carter would have to come out to the channel or she was staying back. And then they would just play around her. Her decision making, you could tell she was just overwhelmed in that moment.

And this is what I mean for Orlando. Like, Gotham didn't have a shot on goal until they scored the goal. They didn't have a shot on goal. And not like Orlando had a bunch, but Orlando had, if Orlando would have won this game, it would have felt like, oh, okay, they. to me, they deserve to win the game. Yes. Over the course of 90 minutes, they were more aggressive and they were more dangerous. Yeah, but I really liked, you know, I think credit to Seb Hines and the way that he knows this team.

And he just recognized, okay, let's stay in it for the first 45, see what we can do. And then, you know, I think Doyle injury pushed his hand on Charlie. But the O'Yane halftime sub, they said, okay, we could be a little bit more aggressive and we can really get after them. So I thought that was a really smart tactical shift from him. And, you know, the change with Doyle is Doyle kind of drops out of the center forward position more, which opens up for Marta or now McCutcheon to make those runs, where Charlie holds that space. But then that gave them this central focus on and off the ball of like, okay, this is where their attack can run through. She's occupying centerbacks. I thought because of Reel's struggles, I thought Jalen Howell start to drop deeper.

But then that opened up more opportunity for Orlando to play higher. Yeah. So that all worked kind of in unison. There were moments where I was like, Gotham's midfield has to push up a little. I thought she was Emily Sonnet like three or four times. I'm like, oh, Emily Sonnet came across the field to cover this. And you're like, oh, no, that's Howell playing in this like left centerback spot.

Oh my gosh. And then I was just thinking because we already knew that Washington was going to the final. I was like, this is not good if they play this deep when they play the spirit. it is going to be a big test for them and i thought then the addition of hasbo really helped because i thought not only did she bring a little bit of calm to that midfield and a little bit of positional security i think it also opened up the game to be easier for shaw who'd she come in for again she came in for portillo and then they pushed jaden shaw out wide and we had Brianna Pinto on the show who played with

Jaden to start the year and I was like what did you see from her in the KC game and she said she looked like she was having fun it looked free she's special and I don't dislike playing her centrally like I think the responsibility makes her good and I think she's comfortable with it but it just felt like in the way

the game played out it opened up and then you started to see the space O'Anne was leaving become a bit of an issue and now there was a release to some of the pressure for first time in a 20 plus minute span? I've, in this Gotham system, I like Shaw wide because it feels like when she plays wide,

she has more freedom to occupy the space centrally that she wants to go into, but she comes at it like meeting into the space, like carrying herself into the space where when she's central, she doesn't often drift wide, right? So she's staying centrally. So when she plays wide, she almost can play in two positions where I don't know what it is. and maybe it's just playing in that system. She just hasn't found the freedom within that central 10 role to kind of drift wherever she wants to because she can.

Like, I'm sure they'll just let her drift wherever she wants to. Yeah, and it felt really big to keep them in the game. And then, of course, the free kick comes. So there's like a few factors to talk about in all of this. One is the free kick. Two is the fact that Jane Shaw, the youngest player on the field and the newest player on the field. I got this.

Is the one taking it. It starts, though, with a question around the actual foul. What happened? It wasn't the first time. There was two or three in the second half where someone stumbled and the whistle blew. And it was like, oh, there's no, just because someone's on the ground doesn't mean there's a foul. And it was like a 50-50 that wasn't really a 50-50. And whoever was on the ball for Gotham tried to turn out of it, lost possession, fell down.

Ovayet. Oh, no, sorry. Oviot. long touch. Oh, that was before? Yes. Okay. I thought that it was Rose or whoever trying to turn to go forward, but wasn't in possession. And then there's a player on the ground and the whistle goes. It was not the first time that a call like that happened in the game. And it's really, really unfortunate. It does not like excuse what happened to me. This is not they got robbed, because you got to deal with the situation after that better. No, totally. And this goes back to what

I was saying earlier is like this is a game of moments. And just before this foul got called, Ovaya got called for a foul at half field and I think was frustrated with that foul call and or offside or something. And she's like staring the ref down and they show her pretty like a close up of her. And you could tell she's just like rattled. It's like frustrated, maybe loses it a little bit. And then it's a heavy touch from her, a foul from her. And now you're in a place where like if you don't say focused in those moments, it's one or two mistakes. that oftentimes lead to a goal. And to me, that was, it was unfortunate

because it felt like, right, it was very evident. Those three things happened to her really quickly. And I still don't think it's a foul. So I will stand on that. We needed, I think we need to reverse angle or something from the other side to see what was really happening

because there was too many bodies around there. But yeah, it doesn't excuse it. And I would be interested to hear a goalkeeper perspective on this set piece. So should I just call Jill real quick? I was going to say we should have called Jill Lloyd and in for this one. You can see if she up. You can see if she picks up.

So from a non-goalkeeper point of view, my first thing is three in a wall at that moment from that distance does not feel like enough. You've played as a defender. So it's not your responsibility to make that decision. But like three in the wall did not feel like what you're doing with a 95, fifth minute free kick on the edge of the 18. With those two on the ball. And obviously the wall is, okay, if you have to, if you're going to shoot, you have to shoot it over them and it has to be perfect. And so Morehouse is now on the side of that wall waiting for the free kick. And so the

point of the size of that wall is how much of the goal the keeper has to get across if the ball goes over. But because of the distance, if you add two more players on the side of that, then the ball that Shaw plays has to be outside the far post. Right. And so it either has to be a looping header back or it has to be a shot to the far post, which has to then get over the wall, which closes the window to what Morehouse has to mark. And with the Gotham players on the top of the box, if you have an extended wall, the person on the left is the one who goes to close down if they play it square, which is like a reasonable fear, but that's how you handle that. It just felt very odd to me. And then once it's set up that way, I don't know what else Morehouse is going

to do. You've got runners coming across. The ball comes in from 18 yards away. Like, it's unfortunate the way it went in. But if it takes a touch, Morehouse has to be ready to go back across. And like, that's just you're at that point, you're stuck. Yeah. I agree. That's a good point with the wall that I hadn't thought of. Like, it just needed to be a bigger wall. Because then you can't play. Three players is what you do when it's 35 yards away. Yeah. And regardless of who's who's shooting that, like Rose could go near post, Jaden could go far post, and you at least need to give Morehouse the opportunity to see the ball over a wall to try to get there. And you just are making it that much more difficult on

the shooter. But I thought the runners across the face were really, you know, perfectly timed. and it just that's exactly what you want if you're in that position. If you're Jaden Shaw, you're thinking this is a shot cross. If this cross doesn't hit anybody, it's going in the back of the net. And you practice that. I love how she gave a shout out to your goalkeeper coach afterwards, Brody, who said it was just hyping her up the day before saying like, you've got this. You're going to score a set piece goal.

So yeah, great execution. And this is what the best teams do is they find a way even when, the game did not prove that they should have won, they figure out a way to say, it doesn't matter, we're going to win anyways. And frustration from Orlando fans won in the chat right now about Anna Moore House and the way she goes about trying to make the save, as I said, it's a tough spot.

It is bad form and we have seen from her, sometimes the technique goes away but like makes big saves. And I say in that all of that in saying the reason, and Jill will tell us this over and over again, that you care about that technique is when it turns into muscle memory like it has to be there and then we go down the other end of the field

and like at this point there's no way a play could outdo what we just saw and then Anne Katrenberger makes I don't know the save of the year the save of all time in the league this is one of the great saves in soccer history it's the final kick

basically of an elimination game that you just scored on and the extension's correct, the hard step, the power step from her is correct to be able to get back across her own body on a deflected free kick so you don't have time to see where it's coming from, and then the strength to punch that ball away. Because if it's just a touch and it drops, someone's then cleaning that up and putting it in the back of the net, it was unbelievable. Like my jaw was on the ground the last 10 minutes that I came. The best goalkeepers can make up for like maybe a misstep or I think she took a misstep. I think she steps out first. Yeah.

And so that's why she's coming back. She's coming to claim it. Yeah. Yeah. And then all of a sudden she's taking a big drop step and like, I swear her arm stretched. It got longer in that moment to punch the ball away. Michael Jordan and Space Jam. Yeah, Space Jam, AKB.

And she, it's not just like she like just batted it away. she still had the power going backwards to like punch it well clear of any second danger her saving the euros was unreal and these these this rivals it it was it was I I um at that point wasn't I was listening to it on the radio because I had to go somewhere and nobody had scored so I was like I could get to wherever I'm going and then watch extra time in PKs And just listening, it was Jill Lloyd in on the call on Sirius, and it was crazy. You just knew that I couldn't wait to get back to see the clip of what it was, and it was worth rewatching it a few times. Yeah, I put out on Blue Sky. That's the best finish to a game, maybe ever, just because the magnitude of both plays. And we needed it after that 90 minutes.

For sure. Like, you could go watch those highlights and be like, okay, you experience the game, which throughout it it was tens and you felt it and like you said with the flow of the play like it didn't feel unfair for Orlando to get that call and I will say on the step from Berger like I don't know that she's well again we're not experts I don't know that she's totally wrong in that high ball comes in my first thing is I want the goalkeeper to come out and punch your claim right like if it's inside if it's within 10 to 12 yards so I don't mind that that first step was there because it was a bit of a whip ball, then as it drops, that's when she starts to come back. And then the flitone

header, and when you watch, it's like, oh, that's that perfect header. Like, you could feel it with the flick. It's not a mistake. It was a right thing. She just then had to make the next best play. Yeah. I've never trained the goalkeeper, but my point, yeah. I get that. Like, your first instinct, the ball gets lifted, and if it's up high, I'm stepping forward because I'm going to go get it. And then the quick realization of, I can't get there. And so then she's got to get back into position and cover as much as she can and all of that. It was, it was outrageous. And you said it two weeks ago when we went into the KC Gotham game of like, oh, what's going happen? It's like, for Roosevelt's healthy, they've got a chance. Gotham has match winners.

And Katrinberger is a match winner. Jaden Shaw's a match winner. Roosevelt's a match winner. And now they are into the final for the second time in three years, which, first of all, the final two, three years ago at this, two years ago, two years ago, at this point feels like 170 years ago it just feels like the longest distance especially for Gotham of like they won, they became

this super team, the super team lost, the super team fell apart they started to rebuild then they did rebuild or they're in the process of rebuilding and now they're back into a final is absolutely incredible let's talk about that but real

quick Marta she's her comment after the game was like it can't end this way. So the assumption is she is coming back, she looks fully capable of doing that. Yeah. She has been maybe the best player on the field for the last two weeks in NWSL playoff games.

My assumption is she will at this point at a minimum play at the 2027 World Cup at home in Brazil. She posted something on Instagram today about next season. So I think we're good there. So we feel safe. Yeah, now that we can all feel okay. Well, she signed a new contract at the end of the year, right?

I guess you could just retire. Yeah, good point. No, I don't think that's happening. Good. She can so sprint for 100 yards and win a penalty and, yeah, no, she's good. She can't do that to us now. But she will not be at PayPal Park on the field, at least, at 8 p.m. Eastern Time on Saturday in San Jose. Both Gotham and Washington, the team players, fans, they're all going to get their frequent flyer miles going

all the way across the country for this big game. So the two teams faced off twice this year in regular season play. It was 0-0 on August 9th, and Gotham won 3-0 all the way back in April, so not super relevant to what's going on. And, of course, we talked about the playoff game last year. Gotham took the lead. They tried to hang on. They tried to hold on.

It was Brunini's second yellow red card, taking Rodman down on the sideline that led to the brouhaha, Emily Sonic getting in. in her face, we had someone in the chat say they wanted an Emily Sonnet, Marta podcast, because the two just kept chatting and catching up all game. I think Emily Sonet

co-podcasts with pretty much anyone in the league would probably be a pretty good show. But that led to like- We should just mic them up all games, and then that could be the podcast. And that could be the podcast. Game chat. Game talk. And then we had, of course, the drama, late goals, all the other stuff last year

in that game. When you look at the matchup right now, where it stands going into this playoffs what's like the first thing that pops in your head what are you thinking about for keys to this game yeah you mentioned it there's game changers on either team and i just hope we see goals i hope we see a gotham team who's um a little bit better with possession in some of the areas that they weren't against orlando because they're going to have to be against washington the one thing that sticks out to me for Washington that they're going to have to be aware of if they set up the same that they did against Portland is I felt like all of Portland's

now granted they weren't great chances but when Olivia Moultrie got the ball when Castiano's got the ball it was always on their left side Washington's right side and that's where Esme Morgan was playing she tucks in a little bit more so there's space wide for Gotham to occupy maybe you start Jaden Shaw wide and you allow her to do that, to pull Esme Morgan around, leave space for an attacking outside back to help get into the attack. I think that that's going to be a really critical space for Washington to defend better than they did against Portland because those chances that they gave away to Portland, if Gotham get those chances, it's either good looks on goal or a quick combination centrally then from that space going centrally, that they

can threaten. So that's one of the spaces that I just feel like is going to have to be key for Washington. I assume that Trinity Rodman won't be starting in this game. She's played one minute now over the course of the playoffs, which means that it will be the back five again and Rose Colossi will be that right wing back. So my assumption is that it will be the same setup for this Washington team, which Gotham can then game plan into, as you said. The one concern with that for me and I think as well I'd start Hasbo and I'd start Shaw at wide is when Shaw comes inside, Lily Real's not a natural left back. You don't have a ton of width and verticality. I don't know that you'll have a lot of time to get those players forward anyway

with the game state that this will be. And I think having Shaw come inside isn't then an overload because now you've got extra numbers when she wants to an Esther dropping in and then purse gives you a little bit of the width along the other side. I think that's probably Gotham's best setup and best opportunity to create those moments that you just talked about. And it gives you then enough numbers in central midfield to be around Croybuthun and Lacey Santos because that's sort of the threat that's always sitting there for you. For Gotham, that was going to be one of the things that I mentioned is we just talked about how deep they sat.

You don't want to sit too deep against this Washington team because those players can just pull off the midfield line into space. And now you're running at them, almost like chasing them. and they can combine with their ability. Santos and Croix, Bethune are two of the best players in quick combination. So I think you want to play a little bit. You don't want, they can't get so deep in their midfield line because I don't think they're going to, I think they're going to have to, they're going to be sitting a lot

and defending a lot because of how good Washington has proven that they can be with possession. And you just can't, you have to manage a space between your lines and make sure you're getting good quality pressure on those players as they build through the middle. Yeah. I think that where Gotham finds its moments to connect a little bit and play a little bit higher is going to be huge. Esther's presence is massive for that. Like you can play up to her.

She can hold possession. She'll drop in and link up, even if it's not goal scoring moments. She's such a good soccer player and she's so comfortable connecting. That's a huge moment for this team. But having another option. in central midfield, it allows Jalen Howell to push a little bit higher if that's what happens in those moments and helps sort of conduct that, which I think she's been great as the lone six. I think that's her best role.

But with Hasmo in there, then there's a little bit more questions of, okay, well, which one of them is going to step in? And it's less predictable. And then I just haven't seen game-changing plays from Purchio or just if she's a little, whoever it is that they can play in the attack. Ellis Stevens, not fully available, of course, so that's not going to be an option. It just feels like you're both safest,

but then also most dangerous setup is to have all of them in. And Gotham's going to have to find times to be on the ball. They can't have 40% possession. They will lose that game because that's not how they're built. That's not who they are. And so it didn't work for Portland or Louisville, but they're more even built that way than you are. Gotham's going to have to sort of open up and find some opportunities.

I would assume Mandy Freeman gets the start just because it gives you that solid play and yeah we don't know the status of real she came out look like she was limping and brunia as well came out early from this game so there's some question marks in there for this gotham team it feels very much like it did two years ago of like they've got match winners you know they're capable of it um will they do so some with the spirit it feels opposite because last year they were limping into the final and this year they feel like they're roaring in Yeah. And it feels like it's their game to go and win. They're dangerous on set pieces. They're dangerous in the run of play. There's a lot of different ways that they could get after this and get a win. We talked about already sort of what it means for these teams to get here. If they get over the line, like what is, you know, preview what you think our conversation next week will be like of, let's say for Washington if they win this championship, like what it all means. you said it earlier like it works right that that what they're doing is working i think for

washington they would feel like last year they played a really good final and ended up not winning right and yeah it would feel a little bit like uh validation for everything that they've put in what they're building there they've just they've done all right they've done all of the little things right when it comes to like staff like this team has a massive staff and the people that take care of these players they have a great training facility they're investing money they are doing what i think a lot of people have called on the nwsl to do and so that that works and when you get the right people in the right places that like a gonzalez i think he's really led this team well and so it'll yeah it would feel like i don't want to

say a cherry on top of all the work that they've put in because it doesn't feel like it's the like it doesn't feel complete and to me a cherry on top feels complete this feels like like you're put in I don't know I'm not why I'm on ice cream analogies well I think the validation is correct of like yeah they're doing I mean the validation for Michelle Kang's investment as an individual I think but some of that stuff I find it hard which is I think they're already there back-to-back championships to meet appearances is like what you're doing works everyone else to try and do what you're doing and like you've gotten the return of like you get to be the center of the show you get to be the center of the conversation but you want to have the

celebration off the back of one of those you don't want to look back and say like they were so good in this four year span where they went to two finals and maybe they were three finals because they won in 21 right yeah well i'm saying if you look from this point going forward like we don't know what next year looks like we don't know what the future looks like um yes no over the over triny rodman's career. They have been to now three finals in a really, really short amount of time. But you have to win one of those so that you can say that. And you don't have to win everything. You don't have to be in every final. And when you make it, you're not going to win every game. But like you have to win one. And this is their opportunity because they know how fleeting it is to be healthy at the right

time in the right moment. And it feels like they're there. And it feels like they've gotten an opportunity. On the flip side for Gotham, I think what they have validated is that the bill two years ago was the bill like they went short term last year and i don't blame them if you have these players saying like yeah i want to come you're not going to say no but it felt unsustainable unless they won and everyone was so happy about winning that you weren't going to keep all these players happy there wasn't enough minutes there's not enough time there's probably not enough money on a salary cap and then they found this balance this year of the shapan skis and the reels and the players who are young and in their first contracts,

filling in alongside the stars like a Roosevelt and an Esther, and then the veterans, like Amanda Freeman, who have been there and can play multiple roles and be a part of this. This group for Gotham, I don't think, is going anywhere. I think it's just going to get better. I think all the rookies this year will be a bigger factor next year, and the spine of this team is so good from now with Jalen Howell

as a part of that, from Esther, all the way back to Berger, that they'll be competitive over and over again. but the balance has to be there. You can't just be the superstar team. And two years ago, that's what it was. Ali Krieger at the back, Mitch Per is playing at an all-time high level and like veteran attacking experience, but then some young players filling in some roles.

And now it feels like they found themselves after the year sort of a miss and where they still finished, what, third and went to a semifinal. And now this is sort of the revalidation of like, this is what we are. This is how we can build this at a high level. And I'd be surprised if Gotham's not. back here a couple more times over the next five, six years based off the way this group is put

together. But it's going to be a fun final. It's going to be a special event. Do you have a pick? Two to one, Washington Spirit. I like that. I'm going to go three one Washington. I think they get the late goal and open it up, but we're both picking them. We are way over time right now. We are pushing it. But I did mention Casey Currant, while all of this was going on, fired their general manager elevated flacko out of their coaching position has an open coaching position now and has promoted ryan dell to general manager del held this role at louisville in the past and was inside the club at a lower role so it feels like what happened here is vlako is now in charge of all sporting decisions but has stepped away from the sideline will not be the day-to-day head coach

also will not be in the weeds as the day-to-day gm that will be ryan dell doing some of the dotting the eyes crossing the tease work underneath that but Vlako is sort of the point-setter. I don't think a lot of this is different. My guess would be if we had walked in the building two weeks ago, Flacco would be the voice of the sporting direction. Flacco was heavily involved in the roster construction, and that is sort of the continuation of this.

Do you have a different reading of this from the outside? Well, I just laughed because when you said point-setter, I thought of point-setta, like the flower in the Christmas time. There you go. It just made me giggles. Because that is not what you were saying at all. Not at all. I don't have a different read.

I think from just an outsider, Vlako's been on the field for a long, long, long time. And maybe he's just looking to change it up and do something different. And with what the longs have built, not just being one club, but an organization that has multiple clubs all over the world, you want someone who has a really good direction of how you want those teams to play.

And to me, that feels like maybe where Vlako is wanting to put his time. But it is not what we expected on the heels of a nominee for Coach of the Year. And then you get that he's not coaching anymore. What a bummer. Like, you just didn't even think that that was the last time we were going to see him coaching. Also, a surprise to see a team set a points record and then fire someone who is involved in that. And that's like, I understand a little bit, okay, there's some movement. But Caitlin Carducci has been pulling the strings now for a year and a half.

My guess would be if we dug really deep a lot of signings, you'd say, are Vlako signings. And he identified players or he had main conversations or he has the links and connections. I get all of that. It just seems really harsh to be a part of a record-setting team. And then after that, a week later, being let go. while the playoffs are still happening across the league. I do think we are still in a place where, like, talent and collection of talent

is the most important thing for teams and then the tactical side comes in. And so if Flack goes good at both of them and says, I only have the energy to focus on one, you could understand the choice being, all right, let's move him into this role. Let's make sure we still have him at his best capacity doing this.

And then we figure out the coaching stuff on the side. The expectation would be what, that one of his... his former assistants or someone he's connected to takes over as a head coach? I would think so. I mean, just when I heard this, Milan has been with him for a long time as his first assistant right now. I would think when you're changing that much, you would want somebody to keep that same vein of coaching ideas and influence in the, in charge of what you're doing.

But I don't know. There's a lot of ambition in the longs and in that organization too, so I don't know what the coaching search is going to look like. The other name that popped to my head was Twyla Kilgore, who worked under him with U.S. soccer and then obviously replaced him as interim manager, who's been without a job, I think, for a year now that we've connected to every other job possible. So this is what we do, and this is what we do it. Yeah, this feels like probably not a shakeup, but like things really remain the same,

which for this club is what you want. But it was surprising to just see any news like this come out from a team where it felt bulletproof two weeks ago and like yeah you lost a playoff game there were injuries but like things happened i don't think this was reactionary to this i'm sure this was planned in advance um but it just seems really really odd for it to happen my guess is this team continues to roll on going forward uh and then big announcement for the denver summit and there's they've announced their next two players so cayley kurtz and megyn read will join the team joining this feel similar in my mind on the alley wott signing of like good nwsl experience true

starting level players where you can start to put big name talent around that or young players but like here is sort of your core of what a competitive team looks like and when you're building a team right you you want to look at your spine first like who are those players that are going to solidify the spine and have played in this league so four time iron woman kailie kurtz is a pretty good signing when it comes to availability and knowing what it's like to play in NWSL games. And then Megan Reed is a great story. I didn't even think she was going to be a professional soccer player.

Now is played for Angel City since they started. So I think that for the summit, it's a really good start. And now that the season is, you know, over after this weekend, I would imagine a lot, a lot more conversations are happening. But with them, with Boston Legacy as well, to make sure that they're building. their rosters as quickly as possible because they'll be in preseason in just over a month. Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned the spine, you know, Casey Murphy signing with Boston Legacy, that's similar

is like, okay, can you have, especially players who have won in this league, who have been in this league, Kaylee Kurtz on the top of this list. It does open up the question marks around what does North Carolina look like going forward because that is a lot of minutes coming off your books, off your team, in a team that hasn't had a ton of stability. That's going to be a big part of our offseason conversations that are going to be coming up. But first, we've got a final on the books this weekend.

We're going to continue to cover this with Kickback Committee. Our show will be coming out tomorrow. We're going to look to both sides about what it means to the fan base is and to these teams and how they've gotten to this point. And we're going to be out in San Jose as well. We'll have your reaction to the championship coming up next week after we see everything go down on Saturday night. Come say hi to us.

Come say hi to us. hit me up on Blue Sky. If you are around, hit up our accounts as well. Thank you to everyone in the chat. It was awesome having your input throughout the show. We'll talk to you all again very, very soon.